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Wander Beauty CEO Divya Gugnani Interview · Skin Anarchy

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0:34
SPEAKER_02: Hi guys, welcome back to another episode of Skincare Anarchy.
0:38
SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Ekta.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: I have an amazing guest today, and I'm so so inspired by her work and her brand.
0:46
SPEAKER_02: Um, without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Divya Gugnani.
0:51
SPEAKER_02: She is the CEO and founder of Wonder Beauty.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm sure you guys have seen Wander Beauty everywhere on Instagram.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you guys, you guys are really, really an amazing brand.
1:02
SPEAKER_02: So welcome to the show.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for accepting our invite and coming on to the show.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to be here.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, so can you tell us all about yourself?
1:15
SPEAKER_02: Because I really want to learn everything about your background and um, you know, how you got started and the beauty industry and all of that.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I actually was born in Springfield, Illinois.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, both my parents came here from India.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: My dad actually came here for college.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, it was the most bizarre experience when I actually introduced him to my guy I was dating, who I ended up getting married to, and my um husband was like, Your dad like grew up in India his whole life, and like he talks with an American accent.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, he came here for college.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: And so he spent more time here than he's ever spent in India.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: So that explains that.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: But my mom, you know, came here uh and my parents got married, arranged marriage, and then they moved.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: My dad became an entrepreneur and he moved to New York because of his business.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: I grew up mostly in um Long Island, which is a suburb of Manhattan.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:01
SPEAKER_01: And I went to Cornell for undergrad.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: I studied government and economics.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, I then went to work in finance.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: My first job out of college was investment banking at Goldman Sachs.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: I slept under a desk.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: I loved every day of it.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, people say they have these horror stories of experiences of like working in finance.
2:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm literally just watching a show on HBO Max these days called Industry, where it like talks about investment banking.
2:26
SPEAKER_01: So I'm reliving my investment banking days via that TV show.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think one of the most amazing things about the first step in my career is that I learned, I worked in an amazing organization.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: Goldman Sachs was just a very special place.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: I worked with highly motivated, incredibly intelligent, hardworking people.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think that kind of set the um tone for my future career.
2:50
SPEAKER_01: And it really gave me a set of expectations around myself and my work.
2:55
SPEAKER_01: And then I went on to build my career in finance, worked in private equity, invested in later stage companies, then worked in venture capital, invested in earlier stage companies, and then took a leap over to the dark side and became an entrepreneur.
3:09
SPEAKER_01: So my first entrepreneurial venture was in the auto parts industry.
3:14
SPEAKER_01: That's a whole long story for a glass of wine one day.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I, you know, started just, you know, building companies from ground up.
3:22
SPEAKER_01: So I started the auto parts company, ended up selling it, started another company uh in the culinary space.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: I'd gone to culinary school between undergrad and business school.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: So between going to Cornell for undergrad and going to Harvard for business school, I went to culinary school and I really learned a lot in culinary school.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: People, you know, asked me, like, oh, do you really think it was worth getting an MBA?
3:43
SPEAKER_01: And did you learn a lot from getting your master's?
3:45
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I learned a lot in culinary school.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: And I hate to say that.
3:48
SPEAKER_02: I'm the same way.
3:49
SPEAKER_02: The MBA part, I don't think it does much, honestly.
3:51
SPEAKER_02: I don't think it does.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just listen, I think I learned a lot.
3:56
SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong.
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I think I met incredible people and I built a wonderful network.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think that ended up being the most useful part of my experience there.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: But in culinary school, I actually learned things that I think matter for your future existence.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: As for me in my life as, you know, a spouse, a mother, an entrepreneur.
4:16
SPEAKER_01: When I was in culinary school, we were like cranking out dishes and meals, and there was, you know, heat and fire and all sorts of elements.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: And the reliance on each person on your line to get to that finished product was tremendous.
4:29
SPEAKER_01: And the trust between people was just immense.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that the stress, the timing, the pressure, the elements, and then the teamwork aspects and the trust, like it was just, it was big.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: And so your culinary school for me personally was, you know, a big awakening on how to be a great team member, how to be a great coworker, how to, you know, trust people and how to like get things out on time.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I um, so I started my first company, started my second company, started my third company, sold the first one, sold the third one.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, my third company actually sold to QBC.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: So I worked at QVC for a little while, which is a television shopping um, you know, global business.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: And I spent a lot of time in beauty while I was there.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: And I had always loved beauty.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Like my mom used to just make all of her beauty products out of the kitchen, out of the pantry.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: Everything was like, you know, using basin or using Haldi, which is, you know, turmeric.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: And there was just so much inspiration from the old Indian ways of Ayurveda and like, you know, taking a natural approach.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: And so for me, that's how my beauty journey started.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: And as I got older and I got diagnosed with autoimmune disease, my beauty journey really changed because I had to go back to all those roots because I developed all these allergies and couldn't use a lot of products that I knew and loved and had been using for years.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I became a mom of two young kids.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: I got diagnosed with autoimmune disease, and I found myself just very limited in my beauty offerings.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't sitting there and doing a full-on look.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: There was no cut crease happening when you're going to work when you have two kids under the age of two.
6:09
SPEAKER_01: And I needed fewer things that did more, and I needed clean beauty.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: And that really ultimately led to the inspiration behind why Lindsay and I created Wander Beauty.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: It was this idea that the two of us were time-starved women on the go, and we wanted clean beauty, and so we created Wander Beauty to create clean beauty essentials that you reach for every single day wherever you wander.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: And that really was what Wander Beauty was all about.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: It was for those women who were on the go, who were going from desk to dinner, and you know, managing busy lives at home and with their families, and just wanted clean beauty essentials that they felt confidence in across hair care, across body, across skin, across color cosmetics.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: They wanted one brand they could shop on, use their iPhone, check out in a minute and 30 seconds, and get everything they need, essentials that they're gonna reach for every day.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Right.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's it's so um interesting that you bring up the point that your brand is geared towards busy women because I remember when I first saw Wander Beauty, it was on an Instagram um sponsored post.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: And I remember seeing your product.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: I think it was a compact product, like I think it was foundation, and I remember seeing it and just I was just blown away.
7:20
SPEAKER_02: I was like, this is so freaking cool.
7:23
SPEAKER_02: Like I can put this in my bag, you know, and just go.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Like it's you know, because makeup for me was always like just what you described, it was always like this thing that you have to like make time for, but your product immediately when I saw it, I was like, this is perfect, you know, this is perfect to put in my bag and just not have to think about it.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's amazing.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really just been a incredible.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I have enjoyed the journey, it's just a lot, it's tremendous.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: Like when you start a brand from scratch, it's an incredible amount of work, it's an incredible amount of dedication.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: And fast forward five years later, I'm still at it.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, you're doing an amazing job, I'll tell you that.
8:04
SPEAKER_02: You really are.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I've heard nothing but good things about Wander from all of my friends that have tried your products, and you know, I I love everything that you guys have in the skincare realm.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's really it's good products there do exactly what they're supposed to do.
8:20
SPEAKER_02: So, can you can you tell us a little bit about that skincare transition from the beauty, like the makeup into the skincare?
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Did you guys always have that planned out or did you kind of yeah?
8:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:30
SPEAKER_01: So our strategy from day one is that we are going to service the modern woman across all of her beauty needs.
8:37
SPEAKER_01: So we our mission was never like, you know, traditional brands start out and they're like, I'm a skincare brand, I'm a cholera cosmetics brand, I'm a hair care brand.
8:45
SPEAKER_01: You can find me in this section at Sephora.
8:48
SPEAKER_01: We never wanted to fit the mold.
8:50
SPEAKER_01: We always had this idea that when we launch a business, we're gonna innovate.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna innovate, we're not gonna imitate, we're gonna create something different and do it differently.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: So we knew digital need to be the area that we focused on first because women who are time-starved and busy, like they're shopping on their phones, you know, 80% of our mobile, and people are coming to us via their phones and they need quick and easy, one destination where they can get their essentials cross-category.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: So our mission was always deliver the best cross-categories.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: So we launched first with Color Cosmetics and then launched Baggage Claim, which was our gold under eye mask, which depuffs, brightens, and hydrates that delicate eye area.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: And it became a hero for us instantly.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: And then we built our skincare business deeper from that success of baggage claim and now have an incredible offering in skin, particularly have incredible treatments like our do not disturb overnight concentrate, which is a 1% retinoid, and fundamentally just changes the appearance and feel of your skin over time because you know, 1% retinoid is gonna stimulate collagen production in a very meaningful way.
9:53
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: Yep, yeah, exactly.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's a very, very um, you know, when I tried your skincare products, I felt very like like my skin looked exactly how I want it to look when I put skincare on.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't go into skincare thinking it's gonna be this like overnight, miraculous, like I'm gonna look like I'm 15 again.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: It just needs to balance my skin.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: And that's exactly what your products did.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: Is I put them on, went to bed, and in the morning I had a beautiful skin.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: I could put my makeup on.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's very, very, very effective.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I think you guys really, yeah, consistency is everything.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: Like, people want to see results, but you need to be consistent with it.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: And my philosophy in skin has always been less is more.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, do a few things and do them well, like use multitasking products.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know if you've tried our missed connection, you know, essence and toner.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: This is a bi-phase formula which has a pink water-based toner, which is gonna rebalance your skin to the pH of 5.5.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: And when your skin is balanced, and when it's neither alkaline nor acidic, it's gonna be healthy.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: And it's not gonna be have dry and redness and patchiness andor oiliness and acne and breakouts.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: When your skin is balanced, everything is wonderful.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: And so balancing your skin with mist connection, it has that pink water-based toner, but it also has a clear oil-based essence, which will hydrate and plump the skin.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: So, in one spray, you're gonna balance and you're gonna hydrate.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: And so, this idea of multitasking in skin and really delivering efficacious results and real ingredients that are gonna do that for you, that's what we're all about.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: Every formulation really is multitasking and it's going to address multiple concerns in one step.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: So you have less steps and you're doing more.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: And that's what you need, you know.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I think that this whole, I know that the whole 10 scare 10-step routine was a big fad for a while.
11:45
SPEAKER_02: And I, I'm not gonna lie, I bought into it, you know, the seven skin method, I did that, and I mean it it was wonderful, but who the hell has time for that?
11:52
SPEAKER_02: Everything like I definitely did not.
11:55
SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, I really, really love that.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: And I think that you using the word balance is very important because I know there's a lot of conversation in the skincare realm in the dermatology community about the pH of skin.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: I actually did a post on my personal account about skin pH, and there's a lot of papers out there talking about how um, you know, there's the this acidic um mantle.
12:15
SPEAKER_02: It's called the acid mantle on your skin.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, this is a very, very real phenomenon.
12:21
SPEAKER_02: It's a naturally occurring thing.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: So I think the balance component um really comes into play here, right?
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Because it's like you can't just put acidic things on your skin and then say, my acid mantle is completely taken care of.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: No, like that's no, it actually makes it worse.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: So you can erode your acid mantle and also damage, sorry, damage your acid mantle and erode your skin barrier by applying products that are too acidic, and people just see high percentages and they start putting stuff on their face.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: And you know, niacinamine at a low percentage is actually gonna do more for you than at a high percentage.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: At a high percentage, you're gonna irritate your skin, disrupt your skin barrier, disrupt your acid mantle.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, higher percentages are not what you need.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: You just need to understand what works for your skin and how to treat your skin in the most efficacious way.
13:06
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: And I think having realistic expectations from skincare is extremely important.
13:11
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, you you have to have like skincare products, in my in my opinion, should do exactly what your products are doing.
13:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, there should not be, this is not a substitute for dermatology.
13:22
SPEAKER_02: This is not a substitute for going into a deram clinic and getting Botox or transdermal delivery of ingredients.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: This is something that is sitting on the surface of your skin and it's doing an amazing job because, hey, at the end of the day, my skin looks more hydrated, my skin looks more rejuvenated, but that's what skincare is supposed to do, you know.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: So I love that you guys have stuck to that instead of having these exorbitant uh claims about, oh, well, you know, you're gonna see, you know, you know what I mean, like the the the claims, like the you know, you're gonna be 10 years younger, you're gonna have no wrinkles.
13:54
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I I think all of that needs to go away and it needs to shift focus into just this is effective, like you said, this is great for busy women and men.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: This is you know what I mean?
14:03
SPEAKER_02: Like those kind of things are things that we need to focus on with skincare rather than all of the other crap.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:08
SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: So that's amazing.
14:11
SPEAKER_02: That's amazing.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: So um tell me more about the formulation aspect for your skincare line.
14:16
SPEAKER_02: Um, what did you guys um kind of look into before you started the process?
14:21
SPEAKER_02: Did you consult dermatologists, chemists?
14:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, how did you go about it?
14:24
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
14:25
SPEAKER_01: We um 100% believe in delivering efficacious results.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: And so this is not a go to a lab and grab something off the stock shelf, not happening here.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: So we formulate everything and work closely, do everything in-house.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: We have um a chemist that we work with that works with us, and then we have additional chemists that we work with at the labs.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of cross-coordination around developing a brief around what we're trying to achieve with each multitasker, and then handpicking the right ingredients at the right levels that work in concert to deliver the best results.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of our development process.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
15:01
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: So is there usually like a um core ingredient that you focus on, or is it something that you're just like it is more It varies per product.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: It varies per product.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Well, there are a lot of ingredients that you will see commonality across our collection.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: So obviously, baggage claim has camu camel extract, which is a potent form of vitamin C from the Amazon.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, you'll see hyaluronic acid, which is you know incredible for delivering moisture into the skin and really plumping the skin across many formulations.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Niacinamide, another vitamin B3 derivative.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: So retinoid, which is a vitamin A derivative.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: So we are really like focused on efficacious ingredients and they are woven through different pieces of our collection where they serve their purpose.
15:44
SPEAKER_02: I love that because I think that there's no reason to have this like single, like you know, you know what I mean though, with the whole like one product, because it's like some brands are like, well, this is just niacinamide.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: And it's like that, I mean, you know, there's this thing called synergistic effect, right?
16:00
SPEAKER_02: In in medicine.
16:01
SPEAKER_02: There's a synergistic effect of everything you you put on any organ, and I any kind of medication or pharmaceutical even also follows those rules.
16:09
SPEAKER_02: So to have um brands that are focusing on just one ingredient, it really goes back to your point about you're overexposing your skin.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: And that's yeah, counter counterproductive to skin health, you know.
16:20
SPEAKER_02: So that's interesting.
16:21
SPEAKER_02: That's really interesting about your ingredient index.
16:23
SPEAKER_02: So um, I'm really curious, um, Divya, because I know that the influencer community plays a huge role these days in terms of promoting skincare brands and really kind of voicing their opinions about what works for them, what doesn't.
16:36
SPEAKER_02: But I'm I'm really interested in what your experience has been using that as a marketing tool.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, have you used it as a marketing um strategy for your skincare?
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
16:49
SPEAKER_01: I really believe that if you look at the data, 80% of consumers are consulting Instagram as a tool before they make a purchase.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: So they're consulting, you know, Instagram in terms of making a decision to buy something in their lives.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's a big piece.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: So obviously having your own organic community and building that community on Instagram is important.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: We're at wander underscore beauty on Instagram.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm at DGnani, D G-U-G-N-A-N-I.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, so building community, connecting, providing educational content there is really important.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: But I think building an influencer network and community that can evangelize your brand is very important.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: Early on, and we continue with the strategy.
17:32
SPEAKER_01: We've actually organically seeded and gifted our product to influencers that we think would really, you know, understand our brand, like our brand, it fits seamlessly in their lives and it's a natural fit.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: And then we really just put the product in their hands, we let them experience it, we let them test it and try it and play with it.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: And then they tell the story of what their experience is like.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: And we take all of those different voices and all of those different experiences, photos, videos, and we weave that together to be the narrative of our brand.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: And so organic influencer content and education has been a key part of our strategy, but it's it's not a paid initiative.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: Right.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: That and that's good that you're not um, you know, it's it's like an unbiased kind of opinion that you're collecting.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I look at Instagram as almost like a great um avenue for collecting consumer data, right?
18:27
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's like lit it's like kind of like a you know survey one-stop shop kind of place where companies can really get some meaningful data.
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, one thing that does concern me though is that there's a lot of um talk around um, you know, I'm not necessarily wander, but I've seen a lot of brands um get kind of attacked on Instagram, right?
18:46
SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of like, well, you're not including everybody and you're not, you know, covering everyone's skin type.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: But it's like, you know, I think that there's definitely two sides to that story.
18:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's I don't agree with attacking any brand.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: So have you come across that at all?
18:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, and what how did you, you know, how do you feel about all that?
19:03
SPEAKER_01: I just feel like, you know, be organic, be authentic, do what you think is right for you, and just follow your north, you know, your true north and your moral compass.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: And just that's what I feel is right for me.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Like for us, we want people to organically engage with our brand and we want everyone to feel see themselves in our brand.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: So there are initiatives around, you know, every single time we test a product, we're testing it on a diverse set of skin tones, a diverse age group, a diverse set of ethnicities, and a diverse set of skin concerns that go along with those different age groups and ethnicities.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: So I feel like we take a very dedicated approach to understanding um inclusivity.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: And I think there's more work we need to do on the color cosmetic side in terms of having more shades.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: I feel like the shade range we do have is very balanced where you can see equal representation of people who are lighter tones and deeper tones.
19:55
SPEAKER_02: I have no problem with your shade range, honestly.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: I think we're extending it because I think there's more work we can do.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: And so I feel like, you know, do what you think makes sense.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: We are a digital first brand, people are shopping us digitally.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: If we had 40 shades of quinta foundation, no one would know how to check out.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: And so that would just create ultimate confusion.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: I think it's very confusing for people.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that you know, create formulations that can stretch to multiple multiple multiple skin tones and types.
20:23
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a science and an art in and of itself.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: It is.
20:28
SPEAKER_02: And and you know, the thing is the whole message behind the vision behind your brand is not one of, well, I need to make a color for every shade of skin that exists out there.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: It's more, it's what you just said.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: It's for the busy woman, it's for somebody who can just, you know what I mean, use your products and rely on them every single day, day in and day out, and then shop quickly for stuff.
20:49
SPEAKER_02: So at the end of the day, I don't believe in making every brand this, you know, I don't know, I don't know how to put it.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: It's it's like not everybody needs to be a poster child for inclusivity.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
21:00
SPEAKER_02: It's well, I just inclusive right.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: I think you I think inclusivity is a key mission, and I think that it's very important.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: And I continue to feel that this is, you know, amplifying the voices that have been unheard in the beauty industry is very important.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: And I believe that as a Southeast Asian founder and a woman of color.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: And so that's part of our mission, vision, and values as a brand.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: But I really feel strongly that like you have to also understand how that fits in within a business context.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, if we Water Beauty had 40 Shades of Foundation and we are a digital brand where people are experiencing our brand digitally, discovering us digitally, shopping digitally, how are people going to check out?
21:40
SPEAKER_01: That's just I could never figure that out.
21:42
SPEAKER_01: And that would create so much friction in the process that doesn't make sense for our consumer, who is this modern woman who shops in her iPhone.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: So be true to your brand and your brand DNA and figure out what works for you on that end.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: That's totally my thought process.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:57
SPEAKER_02: And that and I think that's that's spot on, and I That's obviously it's working, right?
22:02
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's your business strategy is working, and I think um uh there just needs to be a little bit more understanding in the consumer community that you know brands are working really hard to provide amazing, amazing products.
22:14
SPEAKER_02: You know, you guys are putting stuff out there that did not exist in the 90s.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't tell you how many times I went to you know a CVS or a Walgreens and I, you know, picking up even trying to find a lipstick shade, Divya, was like a problem.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, I can't tell you, I don't think I had a my my perfect nude lipstick color to like not kidding, like three years ago.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh no, not even like recently.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, like everything that was nude was actually like made me look like I belonged in a hospital and needed to get checked in because I looked sick.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: Like I remember in the 80s, and I'm dating myself.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: My sister, older sister, used to put on that frosty pink lip gloss, which was such a thing, and she looked like she literally belonged in a morgue.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Like it was it was just not flattering, it didn't work for our skin tone, it was not a trend.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Bright blue eyeshadow and frosty, you know, pink, icy lip gloss doesn't work on you know golden medium skin.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: And so it doesn't.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: And just you know the trends of what is, you know, what nude is your lips, what better it is, like all of that is really shifting and changing.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: And I think for the better as an industry.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: You know what's what's crazy is this is such a random story, but I want to share this with you because I think you'll understand.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: Um, I kid you not, there was this one eyeshadow um back in the day that was a beautiful pink, like it was a pink nude.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: I used to use that in high school as my lipstick.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh like I get it.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: You don't get it.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Like, I hear you.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: I hear you the closest color I could find to not making me look ashy or not making me look like I look sick, like I literally look sick.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: Like, check me in somewhere, look very ill.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, no, I completely agree with you.
23:53
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, okay, so let's let's talk about what's next for for Wander then.
23:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, I mean, what are you guys coming out with?
24:00
SPEAKER_02: I know you probably can't share too many details, but what's um the next thing, next big thing?
24:05
SPEAKER_01: Always expect from us clean beauty essentials.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: So clean beauty essentials that you're gonna reach for every day.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Like whether you're you're working at home, you're not working at all, you're managing a family, you're traveling, whatever you're doing with your life, like things that you're gonna need every day.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: So more essentials to come next year, shade expansion, as I mentioned, because you know, really with a mission of inclusivity to have more shades and have more balance, which is something that we're gonna deliver on early next year.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, skin is just growing tremendously for us as a business.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: Our skincare business is up dramatically since COVID.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: People are not going out and getting the services that they used to, getting facials, having, you know, all sorts of things happen um outside the home in terms of their skincare treatments.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: They're doing it all at home.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna empower women to do all of this in the comfort of their own home.
24:57
SPEAKER_01: And so you'll see more skin from loss, more skin treatments.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna be getting into a big new category of skin next year.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited about that.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: That's happening spring next year.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of good things on the horizon.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm really excited.
25:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna invite you back, you know that, right?
25:10
SPEAKER_02: Because I want to see.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: I would love it.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: I would love it, love it.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Also, one request to you, Divya, make a sheet mask.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Seriously.
25:18
SPEAKER_01: It's okay, so interesting.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: So here's I have a love-hate relationship with sheet masks.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: So I love the instant plumping of a sheet mask.
25:26
SPEAKER_01: I do believe that when you put a sheet mask on your face, when you take it off 15, 20 minutes later, you see instant hydration, right?
25:33
SPEAKER_01: Because it's plumping the skin, super like the superficial layers, your epidermis, so early layers of your skin, not the dermis, are seeing that kind of plumping hydration.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: But the messiness of it is just drives me in the stickiness of it.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: It's like text from a sensorial standpoint and from a texture standpoint, it like icks me out.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if I just like I sheet masks are just tough for me.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: I like love our baggage swim gold under eye masks, and I use them all the time.
25:59
SPEAKER_01: Yes, but I'm really trying to think through you know, how do we reinvent the sheet mask experience where it's travel friendly and it really delivers long-term results, not just temporary results?
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: Do you love sheet masks?
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Is that a thing for you?
26:13
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I live with sheet masks.
26:15
SPEAKER_02: Honestly, I'm interested because I put them in my bag, and if I have to go in the hospital, you know, and then you just you're you have like the 30 minutes you put on the sheet masks.
26:24
SPEAKER_02: And let me just tell you, I hate those two-piece sheet masks.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: I hate drives you crazy.
26:27
SPEAKER_02: Those are so annoying.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: They're like literally like I don't have time for this.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: Just give me one piece and let me plop it on my face, and then yeah, it the stickiness, I completely agree with you.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: There's some masks that are like wave the the viscosity of the fluid that is being used or the ingredient, it's just too much, you know, and it doesn't soak in.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, if there's something that's like more water-based or it's just lighter, you know what I mean?
26:50
SPEAKER_02: It just soaks in instantly, that's perfect.
26:52
SPEAKER_02: Like for me at least.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: I I love stuff like that.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I just think that that's kind of what's happening, and um, we're we're thinking through it, but it's it's good to know.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
27:04
SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much, Divya.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: This was so awesome.
27:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm first around we got to connect and meet each other and really enjoyed this conversation and really appreciate you having me.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: Of course, it was the the pleasure was truly mine.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited that you said yes to coming on the show.
27:18
SPEAKER_02: It means the world to us.
27:19
SPEAKER_02: Everyone listening out there, please, please, please go follow Wander Beauty on Instagram.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, follow Divya.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: I believe, Divya, you shouted out your actual um Gugnani, D G-U-G-N-A-N-I.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: And if you have any questions, feel free to DM me there.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm happy to answer any skincare questions.
27:35
SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: And then you guys leave me a comment, leave both of us a comment on the skincare anarchy um cover art for this episode, and I will pass along the questions to Divya um, you know, if you have any questions.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: And please don't forget to subscribe and rate us on Spotify, iTunes Podcasts, or Google Podcasts.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: We're available on seven different platforms, so um pick one.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: Um we're so excited that you're tuning in.
27:59
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, and we'll be back next time.
28:09
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28:16
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29:11
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29:16
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