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The Story of Led Zeppelin: Game changers of rock · GARAGE TO STADIUMS Music History Podcast

• Dave Anthony 0:01 Hi there. I'm Dave Anthony and this is the Garage to Stadiums podcast. On each episode we tell you the story of how one of our music legends rose from obscurity to fame, and play some of the songs that mark that journey. Welcome to Garage to Stadiums. Today's show is about Led Zeppelin. For those of you that are unfamiliar with the Led Zeppelin story, I bet you can at least name one song they did. And it's probably Stairway to Heaven. In fact, it's almost a statistically proven fact that if you went to high school from 1972 to 2000, you probably at some point danced to that at a high school slow dance completely disoriented by its slow parts morphing into fast, loud parts. Regardless of whether you love the music or are indifferent, today's story will give you an appreciation for the story of a band who epitomizes raw musical talent and innovation in terms of musical styles, and pure business savvy in terms of marketing and positioning. And, as you will hear Led Zeppelin practically wrote the manual on how to conduct the hedonistic rock and roll lifestyle of sex, drugs and rock and roll. To date 300 million albums have been sold by this band an astonishing number. And to discuss Led Zeppelin we have Bob Spitz, who authored a book on the band. A bit about Bob, Bob Spitz is a journalist and author with a very interesting background. Early in his career, he worked as a manager for Bruce Springsteen and Elton John, and then went on to author biographies of major cultural figures, including Ronald Reagan, Julia Child, and New York Times best seller on The Beatles. And the book he's here to discuss today, �Led Zeppelin: The Biography�. Bob is joining us from Los Angeles. So Bob, as we mentioned, in your bio, you've written on a variety of subjects in your career, ranging from Ronald Reagan to Led Zeppelin quite a range, what attracted you to write a biography on Zeppelin. Bob Spitz 2:01 Zeppelin was a complete anomaly. I was working on the Reagan bio and my publisher called and said, listen, there's a book I've always wanted to publish, and you're the only guy who can do this and we want to sign you up now, while you're in the middle of another book. And I said, Well, who was it, and he told me Led Zeppelin. And I have to admit, my heart sunk. I mean, it sunk. I have 20,000 vinyl albums in my collection. I don't have a single Led Zeppelin album. And I'll tell you why. It's because during the 1970s, I was on the road with Bruce and Elton. And our paths didn't cross and it didn't cross the lives and it didn't cross musically at either, either. I just didn't hear Led Zeppelin. And so I thought about it long and hard. And I said, this is an incredibly important band. I am an empty vessel. I'm going to let them fill me up. And I'm going to start from the beginning and find out what this van was all about. And I sure did. Dave Anthony 3:11 It's an incredible book. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. Tell us a little bit about you know, we've talked on the show before about the blues boom in the UK that led to all these prodigies guitar players in groups. Tell us about the fascinating character that runs through this book. Obviously, it's Jimmy Page. Tell us a little bit about his background and how he came to found Led Zeppelin. Bob Spitz 3:34 Yeah, Jimmy, Jimmy was an incredible guy. I mean, I've felt so many different ways about him while I was writing this book, and we'll get into some of that later. But, you know, as a kid, Jimmy grew up in a place called Epson, where Epsom salts come from. It was kind of a commuter suburb to London. And his parents were, you know, middle class people. His father worked in a chemical factory great that they had a nice house and everything, but the most important thing about Epson was who was there, within five minutes of Jimmy, there was another boy growing up named Jeff Beck. And within five and five minutes on the other side, was another boy named Eric Clapton. And Glyn Johns, the great producer, lived right down the road from Jimmy. So something was in the water in Epsom I'll tell you, it was a remarkable place for Jimmy to grow up. He was fed by all of this music that he heard around him. You know, Jeff Beck, his sister heard that there was another kid who played guitar in the community, and she said, go knock on this guy's door. Can you imagine Jeff Beck showing up at Jimmy Page's house when he was 16 years old, carrying a guitar case? And these two kids sat in Jimmy's living room and found each other. I mean, it was it was remarkable. Every Sunday, Jimmy and Jeff, and Eric would show up, and they would sit in Jimmy's front room. And they would become who they eventually became. I mean, it was a remarkable time for Jimmy. Jimmy also was lucky because his parents allowed him at a very young age to go play in other rock bands. And so he played in a in a group called Red E. Lewis and the Redcaps, there were a cover band. They played, you know, the hits of the day, Gene Vincent, Eddie Cochran stuff, Chuck Berry, a little Chuck Berry. Dave Anthony 5:50 And what I found fascinating was he joined the first band at 15, and was traveling all over the country to these bars. And the band assured his parents that they bring them back every night. And it was just incredible at such a young age to be such a prodigy. Bob Spitz 6:05 Yeah,it was actually an empty promise. They promised his parents they bring him back, but they did around 3:30 in the morning. Dave Anthony 6:13 And then he had to go to sleep. Right, exactly. So, essentially, he moves on to become a studio musician, and maybe describe for the audience how good studio musicians are, but how much volume these guys play on. Bob Spitz 6:28 Well, you know, when Jimmy joined, he couldn't read music. So he had to teach himself to read music, because they would get charts, he would sit down, he would go into the studio, and they'd say, here are the charts. Here's who's here's who's coming in today. And it could be anybody. It could be an orchestra, it could be a commercial for television, it could be a jazz band, he was on Shirley Bassey, recording of Goldfinger. And he would he would play three different sessions a day. I mean, they work this kid to the bone, he would start out in the morning, and someone would walk in and, and Jimmy would have to play not just the chart, but then he'd improvise a little. And that's what made Jimmy so, so attractive to these people who were running the sessions, he could really improvise and add a little extra to what they were doing. And he made fantastic money he was making at the age of 17, much more than his father was making doing a full time job. And that really set him on the path to be self sufficient. Dave Anthony 7:37 Incredible. So he played on songs by The Who I think, in many groups as well as the commercials and as you said, the orchestra was like just the range is incredible. Bob Spitz 7:47 Yeah, he played with The Kinks. He played with Tom Jones, he played for Lulu. I mean, whoever walked in the door, and then there were dozens of those, you know, British kind of vaudeville acts that he had to play on as well. Dave Anthony 8:01 As a result of this punishing studio schedule, Jimmy Page kind of gets burned out and ponders starting a band. Fortuitously for Jimmy, his fellow studio musician, is also burned out and ready for a change. His name was John Baldwin, a talented bass guitar, and organ and piano player who would go on to change his name to John Paul Jones. And as you write in the book, John Baldwin, or John Paul Jones, as he becomes says, he'd be interested in being in a band with Jimmy. Bob Spitz 8:34 And he was almost as remarkable a musician as Jimmy maybe more. He grew up hearing music because his dad played for big bands. And then later on his father and his mother had kind of like a musical comedy routine, and they would take little John on the road with them wherever they went. So he listened to them and he picked up things. I mean, he told me at one point that his father taught him a way to remember music is say he was on a train and he had a song in his head. And he had nothing to no tape recorder. None of those guys who have tape recorders in those days, so he devised kind of dots on a paper that allowed him to get a song down. Now, when I was writing the Beatles biography, Paul McCartney told me that the big tragedy of the Beatles was that he and John had written hundreds of other songs, but they didn't have a tape recorder so they couldn't remember them. They just evaporated into the air. But Baldwin, John Paul Jones, could get things like that down and he was remarkable because he could play classical music with a philharmonic. He was playing piano and organ and the bass but he was also able to transition into rock and roll. And so he was even more valuable to the studio musicians than Jimmy Page. And they were, they were on the same sessions together all the time. It was fantastic. Dave Anthony 10:13 Let's talk a little bit about the other two members because here we've got two incredible musicians playing so much music and so much range of music. And then we get to the two other players, Robert Plant, the lead singer, ultimately of Led Zeppelin and drummer John Bonham, and they're from a very different area than Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones. Bob Spitz 10:34 They are I can tell you in one word where they were from, they were from the Midlands. Now the Midlands was really an area of in the middle of the country, kind of centered around Birmingham, John Bonzo, was from Redditch, which is just a suburb of Birmingham. But Robert Plant was from a place called Kidderminster. Now it was only about 10 miles away, but it might have been another country because these guys spoke a language that the rest of England didn't speak. They spoke Brummie and it was a patchwork kind of like, Cajun is to New Orleans, John Bonham, not so much but Robert was from what they called the Black Country. If you went over this little bridge from Birmingham to where Robert lived you we're in a different world and his accent was almost impenetrable. I mean, it was really not at all what we're used to hearing Robert Plant speaking it was a different, different language completely. Dave Anthony 11:44 Isn�t that incredible? Yes, Robert plant's mother was actually from a traveling family in the Black Country, or what we used to call gypsies, which explains the language differential in that area. His family was fairly educated and I understand he was training to be an accountant you mentioned in the book. Bob Spitz 12:02 He was Robert was headed to college. He got very good grades in school. He went to a community college just for a brief period of time. And he really had a great future. But you know, promised future with a firm had he followed his accountancy, but Robert Plant was never headed in that direction. It discovered the blues. Dave Anthony 12:27 Right, so now we have two incredible music prodigies. One age 24, Jimmy Page one age 22, John Paul Jones, and we've got two 20 year olds from the Midlands, as you said, both of them soon to be married. In fact, Bonham was married at 17. And really, the music sends a message to the four of them that they're onto something. Bob Spitz 12:48 Yes, because they each brought so much and such different qualities to this band. The guys from the Midlands were bringing a loud thumping kind of music. They had grown up in a community where there were active bands they're playing loudly in the Midlands, the Midlands had bands like the M and B's which became the Moody Blues, the Spencer Davis Group, The Move, Denny Laine, and so they brought this kind of loud thumping quality. Jimmy and John Paul brought a kind of refined English electric blues beat the Jimmy had been playing with the Yardbirds and Jeff Beck, and John Baldwin, John Paul Jones, Jonesy brought an even more refined aspect to it. And the four of them together in that room where they first met found something that was unique to all of them, their voices melded their styles melded. And it was pretty remarkable. Dave Anthony 13:55 It's an incredible story that two guys playing on all these famous albums, essentially hook up with two guys who play in bars. Bob Spitz 14:02 Right, exactly. They played in pubs that there was a circuit of pubs and each club had two rooms, one where you drank and one where you could play music, which was great. Dave Anthony 14:16 So the new band has to come up with a name. Jimmy had once joked with two members of The Who basis John Entwistle and drummer Keith Moon about starting a band a bit earlier, and one of them joked, that would go over like a lead balloon. And the other said, yeah, a Led Zeppelin. The names stuck in Jimmy's head. And the spelling of lead was changed from lead to led to be more provocative, and avoid confusing audiences. So we're gonna fast forward a little bit they put out their first album, which we're gonna play a sampling of a few songs. A tour, the first US tour kind of comes even before the album is officially out. And that's around Christmas 1968. Tell us out the buzz that surrounded that first tour as people in the US started to be exposed to this incredible new sound. Bob Spitz 15:12 Well, they were very lucky because they got to the US, just as FM radio was exploding. And because of that, there were more in tuned college kids who would become disc jockeys on these radio stations, and so they would listen in advance to the new albums that were coming out. And Peter Grant had supplied all these radio stations with test pressings of this new album that didn't even have the name Led Zeppelin on yet they were still being booked in the United States as the New Yardbirds, but he made sure these progressive stations got them and so they would play these records on a Thursday night, on a Saturday or on a Friday and Saturday when a group like Led Zeppelin had just gotten to a club in let's say, Boston or Cleveland or Phoenix, there would be lines outside the door because the kids had heard these on the FM station, and they wanted to check out the band alive so it was set had a really good step on their career by the fact that FM radio had broken just about this time. Dave Anthony 16:28 Imagine hearing bits of these tunes in small clubs in a US city this is not your typical bar band with songs like �Good Times Bad Times�, �Babe I'm Gonna Leave You�, �Communication Breakdown� and �Dazed and Confused�. Bob opens his book with a fascinating story about that, that one of the gigs on that tour and I believe it was in Boston. And someone in the audience talks about how floored they were by the music. It turns out to be Steven Tyler who went on to form Aerosmith just blown through the doors by this new music he was hearing. Bob Spitz 17:42 Yes, Henry Smith from New York, one of his friends humped the equipment for Zep and he got him in to the to the gig in Boston. And Tyler told me that, you know, he just he cried when he heard them. He just couldn't believe it. Dave Anthony 17:57 Wow. These are smaller clubs are playing at this point. Obviously, these are like 100 seat 200 seat kind of gigs. The Peter Grant, you mentioned him and he's a fascinating character, a fearsome character actually. Tell us a little bit about how he learned his craft because it's quite a story. Bob Spitz 18:14 Yeah, he worked for Ozzy Osbourne, his father in law, who Don and I'm drawing a blank on his name. He was a thug, you know, and Ozzie�s father and oh was a thug. But he controlled all the bands that were coming out. And the American bands that had come to perform like Jerry Lee Lewis, like Little Richard like Gene Vincent. And the his road manager for these tours, was an enormous 300 pound guy who was really just another thug and ex wrestler named Peter Gant. And Peter was a no nonsense guy, he wouldn't take crap from anybody. You didn't want to give him crap. And, and he ruled these road shows with an iron fist, I have to say that Peter was a difficult guy. And at the end of my book, not a likable guy, but he really gave Led Zeppelin everything that they were looking for. He never cheated them. He made sure they always got their money, because a lot of these British acts that came to the States would play a gig and then not be able to get their money from the promoters. The promoters would say, hey, tough sue me. You didn't say that to Peter Grant. Peter would have pulled a gun or, or at least put a guy up against the wall. Always got paid for Led Zeppelin. He never took a cent more than he should have, which was an anomaly for British managers and really made sure that they were taken care of on the road. Dave Anthony 19:50 Right. And there is an interesting element that Peter Grant also brings ultimately to this story. He changes the whole gate economics of the concert business. Bob Spitz 20:00 Peter Grant was going to change how rock and rollers were paid. In the early days, if they played an arena, the split was 60/40 the promoter got 60 and the rock and rollers would get 40% of the gate. Peter realized that he could walk into any place just announced on the radio that he the band was there and they would fill the stadium we're taking 90% and we're going to give you 10% of the gate. Take it or leave it, and he changed everything for every single every single one of the acts that that followed Led Zeppelin. Dave Anthony 20:45 October 1969 Their much anticipated second album comes out called Led Zeppelin II. It�s got �Whole Lotta Love�, �Heartbreaker�, �Living Loving Maid�, �Ramble On�, many people have said, to the dismay of Jimmy Page that this was the beginning of heavy metal, how does page react to that comment? Bob Spitz 21:37 Yeah, Page wasn't happy about that. He didn't like the term. He didn't want his music pigeonholed. You know, he just wanted you to take it as it came. But you know, that's the whole thing about Zep in the way they wanted to be seen. And the answer is tough. One of the problems that Zep had was that they wanted to control everything. And really, they controlled in the end very little about their destiny, they complained all the time that they weren't taken as seriously as other bands, and that they couldn't get the kind of press that say the Rolling Stones got. But the reason is this, I have occasionally walked down the street in New York City with Keith Richards. And when fans see him, they run up to heaven. They go Keith, and he, he takes a picture with them, he puts his arm around them, he takes his skull ring off, he hands it to them to put on and try. If you would tried that with Jimmy Page, you would have had your arm broken. And so Led Zeppelin had no kind of affinity with their fans. They didn't want to be around their fans. They didn't like the press. They didn't give interviews, when they did give interviews they refuse to say much. And so they were always crying that they were called Heavy Metal, that they weren't taken seriously and that they got no press. And that was the problem. They didn't treat the press and their fans very well. Dave Anthony 23:06 Grant was one thing he did that was very savvy from a marketing perspective. You mentioned a couple of other things. But one is these guys made no television appearances. So if you want it to see them, you had and the concert by the albums, you know, which leads to more grossing gates receipts ultimately plays out with, you know, significant demand for these concerts. And these guys are literally the kings of the court when they travel and on tour. There's a significant amount of debauchery discussed on these tours. They almost wrote I think the rock and roll manual to it. Bob Spitz 23:45 Well, you know, they were the first people that threw televisions out of the out of the hotel rooms and when they got to places like the Continental Hyatt House in Los Angeles, the lobby was filled with young girls, when I say young, you know, we always say that there were like 15 and 16 year old girls there, but there were 12 and 14 as well. And normally, the rock and roll bands that came through there would ignore these girls they�s go to the room, not Led Zeppelin. To Led Zeppelin it was like a feast and these young girls became a part of the Led Zeppelin story. It's not a pretty part and it's a part that I have to temper in the book because I've met a lot of these young women now in their 50s and 60s and they gave me the rundown of what exactly was going on. In fact you know Led Zeppelin made them available them and the stories that they told me made the hair on my arms stand up, look I'm a father of a young woman. I had been on the road with you know, rock and rollers. I know what goes on there. But I had never heard stories like this before and they were hair raising. Dave Anthony 25:00 Yeah, shocking to say the least we'll leave that so that readers will run out and get the book to hear more. A variety of albums obviously continue to be released. The fall of 1970 Led Zeppelin III comes out, Page and Plant decide to rent a cottage called Bron-Yr-Aur to write the songs for the next album, and the music on it was a mixture of a variety of folk and Celtic music, along with some heavy hitting tunes, like �The Immigrant Song�. But mixed in with these Celtic and folk tunes like �Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp� Led Zeppelin IV was released on November 8 1971. It was a blank album cover as the band wished to be anonymous, except for symbols that were meant to represent each member of the band. It was called Led Zeppelin IV by fans because of the four symbols on the sides but also because it was the fourth album by the band. Led Zeppelin IV is one of the best selling albums in history selling over 23 million copies by 2006. It featured songs like �Black Dog�, �Rock and Roll�, a slower acoustic tune �Going to California� written by Robert Plant as a tribute to his crush on folk singer Joni Mitchell. And the mammoth hip that we talked about at the beginning of the show, �Stairway to Heaven�. �Houses of the Holy� was their fifth album and it was released on March 28 1973, that featured �Over the Hills and Far Away�, �D�yer Mak�er�. The ensuing tours of �Houses of the Holy� broke, concert box office records, Led Zeppelin were truly kings of the stadiums, crowds of 50,000 in Atlanta, 55,000 in Tampa, typified the excitement of the public to get access to this band. Concert tours get bigger and bigger. But some things start to emerge in the late mid to late 70s that start to preclude something else that is going to happen with this band. Can you just talk about a few of the things that start to emerge from the relentless touring and the lifestyle? Bob Spitz 28:43 Yeah, well, I mean, you know, drugs and alcohol took over and that was, that was a big problem for Led Zeppelin. Jimmy got involved in heroin. Robert dabbled, got out of it quickly enough. He was in a horrendous car accident with his wife. Dave Anthony 29:00 In 1975, I think you wrote. Bob Spitz 29:04 Yes in which she almost died. In fact, she had died and doctors were able to bring his wife back from death. You know, things began to pile up. Bonzo was a huge problem on the road. He had an enormous temper that would arise from nothing at all. If you looked at Bonzo the wrong way you might get punched out, he would break things he would destroy a room for absolutely no reason he would punch somebody in the face for no reason. Alcohol was his nemesis. He couldn't control himself. It really interfered with everything that the band was doing. There were nights that Jimmy was so messed up that if he was playing his double neck guitar, he might have chorded on one neck, but strummed another neck, not knowing that he wasn't making any sound and his playing got sloppy if you listed to a lot of the tapes that come out of those dates Jimmy was known as the one of the sloppiest guitar players around and that was an enormous shame for a guy who was such a gorgeous, gorgeous guitar player growing up it was it was very difficult. Dave Anthony 30:18 �Physical Graffiti� was released on February 24 1975. The band's sixth studio album, it was actually a double album, and featured a song called �Kashmir�. Another song according to John Paul Jones, the bassist was inspired by Stevie Wonder, and it was called �Trampled Underfoot�. The 77 tour starts setting records in terms of attendance at various arenas and stadiums across the US and really brings to mind how popular they were in the US versus England. Can you explain why this band is almost considered like a US treasure at some levels yet they are from England and UK fans don't see them at quite in the same light. Maybe they do now. But in those days, they were still way ahead in the US. Bob Spitz 31:31 Well, you know, it was very easy. In England, publicity for music is controlled really, by the music weekly. It's by NMA, New Musical Express, Melody Maker, Disc and Music Echo, and a few others later on Cut and Mojo. And Led Zeppelin would not do interviews with these guys. So the fans in the UK just didn't hear about them and as much. Also, there were so few big arenas to play in the UK. There was Wembley of course, and there was Earls Court, which was an indoor kind of arena comparable to Madison Square Garden, but really no other big arenas. So Peter Grant kept them out of the UK. I mean, you know, he had them tour of the states over and over and over again, where they could play the crowds. And 50,000 and 80,000 people and, and get paid in cash. Dave Anthony 32:28 Yeah, that was another element. They got paid in pure cash. So Grant would leave with suitcases of bills after the show from the gate receipts. It's incredible. Bob Spitz 32:38 Right, taxes were rarely paid. Dave Anthony 32:42 One of the things that happened on the 77 tour was violence started to become a regular occurrence at shows. Behind the scenes Bonham and members of the band beat up promoter Bill Graham's staff like these things, the bad karma starts adding up to the point where something extremely tragic happens. And on July 26 1977, Robert Plant's five year old son Carrick dies from a stomach virus. What did this do to the band? Bob Spitz 33:10 Well, it turned them inside out, you know, Robert never recovered. He really didn't. I mean, he came back and sang with him again. But he was a different man. He stopped drinking, he stopped taking drugs, his heart wasn't in it anymore. He was really finished with Jimmy, there would be nights on the stage where Jimmy was, had stepped out to do a solo that lasted for seven or eight minutes. And you could see Robert just throwing up his hands on the side of the stage, not knowing what to do with himself anymore. Dave Anthony 33:41 Right. And so the last real album they produced is this 1979 album �In Throug the Out Door� and heroine and plays a huge role because Page isn't as much of a part of the studio creating the songs it's now moved to John Paul Jones and Robert Plant playing a bigger role in the production. Leads to songs like �All Of My Love�, which was written by Plant inspired by the death of his son. Dave Anthony 34:21 But then in 1980 Bob the end is really here with something that obviously happens to John Bonham. Bob Spitz 34:29 Yeah, well Bonzo has really goes off on a tangent one night. He drinks like 40 vodkas. He does. He does a lot of dope goes to a I guess he was at Jimmy's house. He was staying at Jimmy's house in in Kensington, and went upstairs to sleep. And the same thing happened to Bonzo that happened to Jimi Hendrix. He aspirated and choked on his own vomit and die. Tragic, tragic, senseless death, one could say the Bonzo was always headed in that direction. But he usually was able to pull himself out of it, it just seemed that he was like on a collision course with death. And at that point, all the wind was taken out of Led Zeppelin sails, they just decided that without Bonzo, they couldn't go on. Dave Anthony 35:21 And that's really I guess, they never really considered a replacement. It sounds like. Bob Spitz 35:25 Not at all. In fact, they got together the day afterwards, and everyone was agreed that was the end of it. I think Robert had had enough, there was no way that he was going to come back. And I think that Jimmy was in bad enough shape that he realized he had to do something about his health. And so continuing with Led Zeppelin was just a non-starter, and that was the end of the band. Dave Anthony 35:49 Bob, we�re near the end here. What in your view is their place in musical history? What will they be remembered for? Bob Spitz 35:55 Well, I mean, they changed the way we heard music. Led Zeppelin's emergence, in 1969, really 1970, post Woodstock really put a period at the end of the 60s, and all the 60s music. And so you know, there was a lot of peace and love before this. A lot of politics involved in music, Led Zeppelin had washed all of that away. It was really about volume about having the music, really rock your entire body. And it changed the way we listen to music or Led Zeppelin has an enormous influence on not only where music was, but where music was headed and where it was going and what became of it. And so, me especially I who knew nothing about Led Zeppelin came to understand that they were a game changer. And they were to be taken more seriously than I had ever imagined. Dave Anthony 36:58 It's really interesting comment, they almost put a period on the end of the 60s. It's almost like the zeitgeist is reflected in their turbulent, loud, complex music that sort of sets the stage for how they became popular. Bob Spitz 37:10 Well, there's an there's a little thing at the beginning of my book, where Jimmy says, fuck the 60s, we're going to play rock and roll the way we want to. That was it in a nutshell. Dave Anthony 37:23 That typifies it. Okay, Bob, do you have three songs that you'd recommend to the audience that they shouldn't have a listen to that may reflect either the band as you see them or hidden periods or some other theme? Bob Spitz 37:36 Yeah, well, I'll tell you, I do but they're going to come as no surprise. I mean, for me, if you're going to listen to Led Zeppelin you have to know �Whole Lotta Love� because it's just it's a fantastic song. And they play it in a way that no other band could possibly play. My wife has said if I ever played �Stairway to Heaven� again, she�d divorced me. I'm sure that that's not the only wife who's ever said that. But you cannot, you cannot discount �Stairway to Heaven�. It is an enormous song, an enormously important song. It is immediately identifiable. Bob Spitz 38:39 It�s unique in the way it was arranged. If you read the book, you'll see how it came together in a remarkable way with everyone contributing and then my own favorite, I would have to say �Kashmir� it's Robert�s pi�ce de r�sistance. He wrote it about his trip that he took right before the accident with his wife. Dave Anthony 39:03 In Marrakech or Morocco? Bob Spitz 39:06 It was it was to Morocco. And it is it's, you know, it's it's a masterpiece. It's a mini masterpiece. And so those three songs, as I said, they're pretty obvious. But for me, that's Led Zeppelin in a nutshell. Dave Anthony 39:34 It's very interesting if we wind back to the beginning of this story where you told about these two prodigies in the studios meeting these two guys who played in pubs, if you actually go to the end of the tail and follow their lives, the guy that was the pub singer without a band who had the pipes but no band, he actually goes on to become a star again, with his own career with uh, when you want to talk a little bit about that, so he's dive deeply into I guess what is commonly known as kind of the Americana music blend of country music blues folk. He's teamed with bluegrass singer Alison Krauss. They've won Grammys together. Bob Spitz 40:13 Yeah. Well, you know, the thing about Robert Plant is that Robert always loved performing. He loved the audience. Jimmy loved the whole red Zeppelin aura. Jimmy cared more about putting it together, making it the biggest thing that ever happened, he never connected with the fans. So Jimmy, really, never really connected with a band again, Jimmy has spent the last 30 years of his life remastering Led Zeppelin records. He doesn't sit in with other bands. He doesn't play with other musicians, Robert plays with everybody. And I think that goes back to your original question, Dave, of you know why Led Zeppelin didn't have, you know, a bigger connection with their audience say in in the UK. And that's that, you know, Jimmy just wasn't an outgoing guy. Robert, career has continued because he's engaged and loves to perform, and he's curious about all phases of music. Dave Anthony 41:20 I urge everyone to go out and buy Bob's book �Led Zeppelin: The Biography�, it tells a rollicking tale of the origins of this band, all the way through the various periods. And right up to the end. Bob, I really enjoyed the book and thank you for being here today. Bob Spitz 41:36 It's been my pleasure. Thanks so much. Dave Anthony 41:41 Some closing notes on Led Zeppelin. Led Zeppelin actually reunited for one night in December 2007. Playing in front of 22,000 fans in London. Son of John Bonham, Jason Bonham sat in for his deceased father on drums. Over 20 million requests were received for tickets to that show a world record. We have videos of that performance at our site. The duo Robert Plant Jimmy Page they were JRR Tolkien fans and references to their song �Ramble On� paraphrased a Tolkien poem and its opening lines. The characters �Mordor� and �Gollum� are referenced in its second verse. Their songs �Battle of Evermore� is filled with references to the �Lord of the Rings� and �The Return of the King� and �Misty Mountain Hop�, a song by Led Zep was named after a place in �The Hobbit�. Rocking out with JRR Tolkien. Not only did they get inspiration from literary writers, but several songs of Led Zeppelin's, including �Dazed and Confused�, �Stairway to Heaven� had been the subject of controversy, specifically in the form of some legal action by other performers who claimed to have authored similar works. For example, their breakout hit on their second album �Whole Lotta Love� was the subject of a legal battle with the estate of blue singer Willie Dixon, who had a song called �You Need Love�. Zeppelin ultimately settled the lawsuit and gave a writing credit to Dixon for lines such as you need cooling baby, I'm not fooling and other phrases. Robert Plant admitted borrowing the lyrics and said he was happy to pay. If you remember the Hindenburg in your history books, that was a zeppelin, a helium filled balloon that transported people. And of course that tragedy is depicted on the front cover of Led Zeppelin's first album which prompted a lawsuit or threatened legal action by the Zeppelin family. These craft were known as zeppelins and the family did not appreciate the notion of a crashing zeppelin being the name of a popular band. For access to show notes, transcripts and more video links about the history and facts on Led Zeppelin. go to Garage to Stadiums.com. There you'll find our garage that stadiums Led Zeppelin official playlist including Bob Spitz's three picks, also available on Spotify and Apple Music. We hope you enjoyed our show today special thanks to our guest Bob Spitz, author of �Led Zeppelin: The Biography� and our producers. Aminah Faubert and Reese Waters. You've been listening to �Garage to Stadiums� another Blast Furnace Labs production. I'm Dave Anthony. See you next time for another Garage to Stadiums story.