Latest / Cookbook Love Podcast / Episode 380: Sustainable Living and Savoring the Seasons with Gesine Bullock-Prado

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Episode 380: Sustainable Living and Savoring the Seasons with Gesine Bullock-Prado · Cookbook Love Podcast

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You are listening to the Cookbook Love podcast with Maggie
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Green, episode number three 80.
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Welcome to the Cookbook Love podcast.
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A podcast that celebrates cookbook readers, buyers,
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collectors, writers and clubs.
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And now your host cookbook author, culinary dietician, and cookbook
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writing coach, Maggie Green.
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Hi everybody.
0:32
Welcome back to another episode of the Cookbook Love podcast.
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How's everybody doing?
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We are about a week before Christmas here.
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I'm wrapped up my holiday baking, getting ready to host my siblings for
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a brunch this weekend, and kind of wrapping up things here for the year.
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Um, looking forward to the holidays.
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Our kids are coming home and spending some time with them and can't
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wait to have a rematch of a catan.
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We started playing at Thanksgiving and we finally figured everything out, how to set
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the board up, and I just look forward to, um, playing that with again, them again.
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I have to say I won at Thanksgiving, so, um, we'll see how it goes here at
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Christmas time today on the podcast.
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I'm excited to have Gina.
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Bullock Preto on the show.
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She also appeared on episode 2 39 in April of 2023 with her book My Vermont Table.
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She is back with her seventh book called My Harvest Kitchen, where you step into
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a world of vibrant flavors, heartfelt storytelling, and seasonal delights.
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Today on the show.
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Gina and I take a walk through her book with everything from Good Morning
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Food to Foods for feasting, as well as discussions about everything in
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between from tomato sandwiches to how to make German style rye bread.
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Gina is a wealth of information.
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She owns a baking school in Vermont called Sugar Glider Kitchen, and she is a
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delight to talk to, and I think this is a great way to, uh, celebrate the holidays,
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celebrate seasonal food, and listen to all the wealth that Gina has to share.
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So without further delay, let's dive into this interview with Gina Bullock Preto.
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Hi Gina.
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Welcome to the Cookbook Love podcast.
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Hi.
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Thank you for having me.
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Yes, and welcome back your second appearance on the show.
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Looking back at our notes, it looked like we convened here in April of 2023
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to talk about your previous book, but now we have a brand new book, my Harvest
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Kitchen, but just in case an to Go.
2:44
Yes, exactly.
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Just in case there's people who are listening that didn't hear that episode.
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Why don't you tell everybody a little bit about yourself,
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who you are and what you do?
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Well, I am a pastry chef and a baking instructor.
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I have a baking school called Sugar Glider Kitchen in Vermont, and
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I ha it's attached to my house.
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I live in an old 17 hundreds tavern, and the school is in the old carriage house.
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Uh, but totally enclosed.
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It's not like it was the 17 hundreds.
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Um, and I actually started teaching at, uh, king Arthur Flower.
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But, um, uh, it, I have had such a loyal base of students that, uh.
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Opening up my own school was the best decision.
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That was nine years ago, almost 10 years ago.
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I can't believe it.
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And I had a food network show that, um, kind of.
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Followed the school, um, and my baking and cooking life as well.
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And so you can, you can actually see the school on TV if you want to still.
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It's still out there.
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Wonderful.
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So what's everybody loving to learn, uh, in your cooking school to
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these days about cooking or baking?
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It's all baking.
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Um, it's all baking.
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So I am a pastry chef though I do cook.
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So it's interesting these past two cookbooks have been, um.
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A mix of both cooking and baking.
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And my prior ones have been all baking like exclusively.
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Uh, and at the baking school we have everything from baking 1 0 1,
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um, to macaw, to, you know, things like, uh, reverse puff or, uh,
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and, um, shoe paste, everything.
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This is, we have just such a nice, um, mix of, of classes and it's
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a, it's a joy to invite people into our little, our little space.
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Yeah.
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Speaking of joy, here we are in the middle of December.
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Holiday time, holiday baking, and yes, winter time, which was a different
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season than when we met before.
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So it's a whole different feel I'm sure, in your cooking school to these days.
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I'm sure.
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It, it really is.
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Well, we just hope we don't get the big storms right before classes on the
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weekends, because that's always a pain for, because people come from all over
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the world and um, so you really want their travel to be as seamless as possible.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Especially if they've reserved time to be at the school.
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A place to stay.
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Yeah.
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Travel arrangements.
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You, you do want it to all those things.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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But I'm sure Vermont handles the snow Well, they do as
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best, you know, clearing roads.
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Oh, we're great.
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Yeah, we're fabulous.
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It, it's, you know, the, it's, it's, and also we, it's no problem
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for, for locals to get around and the streets are usually cleared.
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Ty split.
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That's usually not a problem.
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Yeah, no, thank goodness.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Beautiful time of year.
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So, um, let's talk a little bit about what's happened
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over the past couple of years.
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Obviously you have a new book out and um, I know you also were doing
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a Master gardener certification.
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I'd love to hear about that.
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But also there's a concept in this book that came through more than in the other
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book about homesteading and I'd love to talk about that and what it means.
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'cause I've heard this word come up a lot recently from many different
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people, and I dunno if it's something that's, um, you know, more and
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more people are paying attention to focusing on developing in themselves.
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But let's talk a little bit about that.
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Well, I think, you know, the concept of homesteading has
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been around for forever, right?
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But I think the way that it's kind of treated now, I mean in, in, in
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a few different ways, but the way that I have been doing it since, um,
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I have first started gardening is trying to put my finger fingers into
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a lot of pots that would helpfully sustain us through different seasons.
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Not completely, but somewhat.
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So that would include having, obviously a vegetable garden, uh, one that hits
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various things, things that can be canned, things that can be eaten immediately.
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Um.
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Things that can be preserved in different ways.
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And then also we have birds.
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So we have, um, a, the kind of entry level livestock in birds, but we have them, and
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they give us quite a few beautiful eggs.
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So in both chickens and in waterfowl.
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And then I have orchards and things like that as well.
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And so we can get everything from quince to apples, to pears, to
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plums, to peaches, um, uh, cherries.
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So many different things that you obviously eat straight from the tree.
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Uh, bake them up or preserve them.
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You can do all those things.
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And for me it's, it, you know, I guess it's a lifestyle, but it doesn't feel
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like it's really a lifestyle per se.
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It's just literally a part of life.
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And it's something that is very, it, it's both a hobby and very sustaining, just.
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In the way that we live.
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Um, but I also think it's also a very Vermont thing.
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It is the way our approach to it is not trendy 'cause we certainly
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don't look trendy doing it.
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'cause if you go onto Pinterest, you see all these like chicken houses that
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have, you know, curtains in them and everything is just very twe and people are
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in their prairie dresses in the garden.
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And, uh, I I, I just, I I don't do that and that's not my thing.
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I, you know, for me it's, it is something that I love to do, but
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it's also something that, you know, I don't look great doing it.
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Mm-hmm.
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It's a lot of work.
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That's a lot, a lot of, uh, labor.
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It is a lot of labor and they're, you can't do everything perfectly
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and you can't, and that.
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Said, you also can't do everything.
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I mean, some people can, but I mean, I know I can't and that's where the half
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ass comes in, that sometimes I, depending on how my winter has been and how my
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dreams progress through the winter for the garden, I have all these plans and
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they, you know, that's sometimes I half as it, sometimes I do a little three
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quarter asset, but you know, I never fully accomplished the thing that I intended.
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Yeah, but I would imagine that's okay.
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It's just like anything else.
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It probably evolves in stages and you started with something and then
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you continued to maybe add something else or something fell away and it
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just evolves into what it is today.
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It just takes time to, it does.
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And you know, you get your priorities straight, both in how you live and,
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and what time you have and the things that you love, um, and making sure
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that you still gain, gain joy from it.
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I find the same thing with baking.
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Yeah.
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You always have to find joy.
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It, it is my profession, but it's still something that I
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really love, which I'm so lucky.
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I'm so lucky that the thing that I love the MO to do the most in the
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world, baking is something that I, as a profession I still love.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So what do you love the most about, which is not something
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about your half-assed homesteading.
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What's the one thing?
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There are the couple of things that really brings you a lot of joy.
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I have to say, just planting in general is magical and it's not unlike baking.
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And that baking is, I feel like an alchemy in that you put all these
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despaired ingredients together and then when the thing comes out of the
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oven, it's something wholly different.
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Uh, but when you plant a seed and you watch it sprout and you tend to it for
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months and months and it bears fruit, it is so stinking satisfying because it takes
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so long, uh, some faster than others, but.
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Uh, I, one of the things about the book is I wanted to tell the journey of growing.
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Uh, and you don't have to be a gardener to read this book, but anybody
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who eats food eats something that has been a groan from the ground.
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So I think it is wonderful to hear the stories of the food
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that you eat almost daily.
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Yeah.
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And, um, and so I tell the stories of how to grow, why I grow, kind of.
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The, some of the misfortunes of the peroni, um, and about like some of the
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chemistry of some of the ingredients, like garlic is just such an interesting
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thing and, and how you treat it once it comes outta the ground will make a big
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difference in how the food will taste.
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I think that's just so cool and wonderful and it doesn't have to be,
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um, gatekeeping, offputting something that is like, you know, very chefy where
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you are not allowed to know about this.
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I think that sets hogwash.
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I think anybody who has ever eaten something will find an interest in
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the things that they are eating.
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Yeah, and I think you, you mentioned a couple things in the book that both
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baking and, uh, this way of life take, which is patience and practice and not
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trying to do everything at once perfectly.
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That's exactly right.
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Yeah.
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And patience is so key.
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And one of the things about, one of the reasons I did the
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Master Gardner program was.
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I knew quite a bit of about gardening, but it is so wonderful,
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especially as a, as a woman in, in middle age to continue learning.
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Um, and I'm also from Generation X, the generation that never asked
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questions, and I'm at the point where I'm like, I'm just gonna ask, ask, ask.
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I'm going to ask all the things that I want to know because
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we only have so much longer.
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And that's right.
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There are things I I, I want to learn and experience and being afraid to
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ask questions certainly isn't the way to accomplish the things that I want
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to in the years that I have left.
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I've always envisioned that Master Gardeners.
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There's a quite a, a robust master gardener program here in Kentucky
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with the extension service in our university and, um, at all the county
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level people taking these courses.
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But I've always envisioned them being like this quiet, like
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subculture of people that, um.
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You know, they're doing flowers, vegetables.
12:30
Yeah.
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They're learning so much about gardening and growing and the people that learn this
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kind of stuff are just an amazing group of people and they are so full of knowledge.
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Uh, one gentleman that lives in our neighborhood, he's, um, quite a bit
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older now, but he got into day lilies once he became a master gardener.
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And I mean, buses were coming from like all over the country
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to come look at his day lilies.
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And of course, you know, they probably what only bloom?
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I don't know how many months outta the year in the summertime.
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Yeah.
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And, um, I, I just find it fascinating when you think of gardening, like
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how much breadth there is to it.
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But I would suspect the success comes from kind of like narrowing down what
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it is you actually are going to be growing if you're doing it yourself.
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Yeah.
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I, one of the other things that is really important about the program
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as well is that you are required to give back to the community.
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That your knowledge is meant to be shared and not to be held.
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Yeah, and I think that's one of the wonderful things about
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it as well, is that you.
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Are required to do community service, uh, with your knowledge and in
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that way, which is really scary.
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Like, you know, you pass your, your certification, uh, and you still
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think, oh, I don't know anything.
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I might, I might have known all the answers, but I still don't know anything.
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And you get really scared.
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But the other thing about it is that no matter what, you have
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to learn about things like soil health and pest management and
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how to do that in a way that.
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Isn't more harmful than it is beneficial.
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And um, and that applies to all plants, whether you just do flowers or vegetables.
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I'm a big believer that flowers are so stinking important in life.
14:20
Oh yeah.
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There, there have, there have been so many people that have just been so
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hardcore, you know, only what you can eat.
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And I think hog wash, I mean, they're pollinators.
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Exactly.
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You, you are, you are feeding pollinators, but you're also,
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there's so much joy to flowers.
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And I actually trick myself into going into my vegetable garden and weeding
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by interspersing flowers amongst the vegetables so that I am drawn to them.
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That's good.
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So that I trick myself.
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I trick myself into like, oh, oh no, there are weeds.
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I should do that.
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And the second you get your fingers in the ground without gloves, you
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start getting serotonin boosts from the bacteria that are in the soil that
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invite you to continue playing with dirt.
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And then you find yourself hours later.
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Dirty as all get out, um, having tended to your garden because it has drawn you in.
15:07
Yeah.
15:07
And caring for the plants and like you said, seed to watching
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them grow, to producing fruit.
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It's a, it's a, it's a wonderful thing and I can't, um, I would imagine then from
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the savory aspects of your book, outside of the baking, uh, what you are doing
15:25
with the homesteading part of your life.
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Effects than what you're eating in your kitchen and the type of things
15:31
that you put in this cookbook.
15:33
100%. And it's, and seasonal in general and, and going back to the half ass
15:37
part of it, I can't do everything.
15:39
So kind of recognizing that there are local farmers who can fill in
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a lot of gaps, that sometimes the grocery store is the only way.
15:49
And, uh, just picking and choosing what's gonna work best for you in that meal.
15:54
It our, we have a very short growing season and so there's only so much
15:58
I can preserve and because I only have so many hours in the day, and
16:01
sometimes you are going to have to go to the grocery store and pick
16:06
amongst those really anemic fruits and vegetables in the winter and how you
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treat them will make or break a meal.
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And I think that's one of the things that I wanted to really get clear in
16:18
this book, that I am not asking you to be a grower in order to use this book.
16:24
Yeah.
16:24
Um, I'm just giving you great recipes that lend themselves to specific re
16:30
to specific ingredients and when and how to find them and maybe entice you
16:36
to grow something because it is such a beautiful thing to do for yourself.
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And this isn't something like everybody should be growing their own food.
16:44
Um.
16:45
Not everyone can, and not everyone has the ground to do it, even
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though it takes very little.
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But I want to share the beauty of it and the joy that it brings,
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uh, and not be that advocate that says, you must grow your own food.
17:01
Yeah.
17:01
Yeah.
17:02
And you, um, have some very user-friendly ways to present
17:05
these chapters in the book.
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I wondered if we could talk a little bit about how the book is laid out
17:11
and then we can dive into, um, some of the, you know, more specific.
17:15
So it looked like you had a good morning chapter.
17:18
Tell us about that.
17:20
Well, it's very Bre, good Morning is breakfast based, so I base it on how
17:23
you would kind of treat your day.
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Uh, and the very first thing is my cheddar and chive biscuit using and, but.
17:31
I actually teach these biscuits in, uh, several classes, both scones
17:36
and biscuits, and my baking 1 0 1.
17:38
And I don't have chives growing right now.
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We're actually in a snowstorm.
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There's a squall going on right now.
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My chives are, have not survived this.
17:45
Yeah.
17:45
And so I'm not gonna run out and be chopping all my whole
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bed of chives for a class.
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Instead, I will just use dried time.
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And it's one of those things that, you know, your house, your rules,
17:56
what you have in your pantry, uh, can be used in the recipe.
18:01
You don't have to do the thing that's growing out.
18:02
Your, um, back door.
18:05
Uh, but it's a great breakfast treat and it's just super, super tasty.
18:10
And then I go through, like, I love egg sandwiches.
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I love them so much.
18:15
So, you know, uh, a lot about eggs because our eggs are seasonal.
18:20
I do eat eggs all year round, but I don't, um, I don't provide artificial
18:26
light to our hens and to our birds.
18:28
And that means that they stop laying at a certain point and it's usually
18:32
mid-fall or, you know, close to late fall because their bodies stop and they go,
18:38
uh, it's time to stop and to get cozy.
18:41
And it's like, I don't wanna force them through winter months
18:43
when they're not out foraging.
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To lay eggs.
18:46
Yeah.
18:46
It's like forcing us to do things when the daylight has changed and Yeah.
18:50
And it's just, we all know what best life, you know what I mean?
18:52
People, I think even humans don't necessarily want to do that.
18:55
I know if we laid eggs, we'd stop laying eggs in the winter.
18:59
Exactly, exactly.
19:01
So when they do start laying again, it's like a, it's like a little treasure that
19:06
you find, and then the eggs change through the season because in the beginning
19:12
they're not out forging as much because they don't have as much to forge from.
19:16
Once it gets into summer, the yolks start turning that bright orange
19:21
and they, they taste differently.
19:23
Um.
19:24
And so kind of celebrating the season of eggs when they are at their best.
19:28
And if you do not have hens, but you do have a farmer's market, I really recommend
19:34
that you go, even if the majority of the eggs you get are from the supermarket,
19:38
every once in a while, treat yourself to something from the farmer's market
19:42
and just like open crack, two eggs, side by side grocery store and farmer's
19:45
market and see the difference just in the ylk alone or just, you know, a
19:49
lot of grocery stores are now selling pasture raised because that means that
19:54
they have far more ground that they can cover and many more nutrients that they
19:57
can get that will kind of make for a more flavorsome and more nutritious egg.
20:02
Uh, but to me it's definitely a seasoned when they're at their best.
20:05
So, um, yeah, it's kind of fascinating to think about the eggs being seasonal,
20:09
just like fruits and vegetables would be.
20:11
Yeah, it is.
20:12
And, and obviously there are places where they wouldn't be when you
20:15
have, you know, a, a lot of sunlight, a lot more, or it's a lot warmer.
20:20
Um.
20:20
Interestingly, we also have ducks.
20:22
And the ducks are more prolific layers than our hens are.
20:26
And then I have a goose who, one who's my, I, my dear, dear girl, I adore her.
20:33
And she only lays in the springtime.
20:35
So her eggs are very precious and huge.
20:41
One egg will be three of a hens or duck's egg, which is
20:44
just, I just find so amazing.
20:46
Yeah.
20:46
But then other things like a cro madam, which is like essentially
20:49
a very fancy ham and cheese sandwich, um, with an egg on top.
20:54
And it's not, it's not just, you know, supposed to be a breakfast thing, though.
20:59
I love it at breakfast, but it's, you can have it anytime.
21:02
Quite frankly, breakfast is my favorite meal, so I'll have it
21:04
breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
21:05
Um, but they are very breakfast focused, uh, dishes.
21:09
But I'm sure if you looked at them, you go, oh, I would have those lemon crepes,
21:14
crepes for dessert, not for breakfast.
21:17
So you.
21:18
Do as you wish.
21:19
Right, right.
21:20
And then also, um, a donut called a cren.
21:25
Oh, cren.
21:26
Yeah.
21:26
Yes.
21:26
So that, and what I love about this donut, it's a filled donut.
21:30
Um, and it is, it is something that is, is usually around during Fing, which
21:36
is February, which is, um, you know, the time of it is like Mardi Gras here.
21:43
Yeah, yeah.
21:44
It's, it's during that time of year.
21:45
Yeah.
21:45
Uh, and it was my mom's favorite thing.
21:49
She loved those things.
21:50
Oh, oh, she loved them.
21:51
She loved them.
21:51
And, but then you grow up and you think it, there is this one thing
21:55
only at one time and only in Germany, and then you grow up and you meet
22:00
lots of people and they're like, oh yeah, I, those are in my culture too.
22:04
Yeah.
22:04
And they might just have a different name, I guess.
22:06
Um, they just have a different name.
22:08
Yeah.
22:08
Yes.
22:08
And maybe, maybe slightly different elements to the dough itself, but they're
22:12
yeasted dough, they're donuts, you know, and it's just so exciting that.
22:17
There are other cultures that have something that is so beloved as well
22:21
and so loved, like my mom, loved them, and it's just such a lovely recipe and
22:26
they're just so bouncy and beautiful.
22:28
Yeah.
22:28
And when, when I, when I can make anything that reminds me of my
22:31
mom, it's, it's the best thing.
22:32
Yeah.
22:33
Yeah.
22:33
Well, remind me about the photos in the book.
22:35
Are you the photographer?
22:37
My, my husband is a photographer.
22:38
Your husband?
22:38
I knew husband.
22:39
There was some connection to that.
22:41
Yeah.
22:41
So to see he took the photos for the book.
22:44
Yeah.
22:44
He took the photos for this book and for the last book.
22:47
Yes.
22:47
And he and I have very similar aesthetic.
22:50
I, I think there's a trend, there's a, maybe it's my age.
22:53
There's a trend in modern cookbooks that I do not like.
22:56
That's, and it's that v it's like it's very seventies, eighties, very harsh.
23:01
Oh, yeah.
23:01
Yeah.
23:01
And it's just like, it's, it's got this almost strange sepia orange focus on it.
23:08
And I'm the fo the food doesn't look good to me.
23:10
And it's like, maybe it's just an age thing, but I, I'm also
23:14
of the, I, I want it to look.
23:17
My husband is a, a fine arts artist.
23:19
He is a painter and, um, draws for film.
23:23
And so we both love something that looks.
23:26
Like art that looks truly beautiful.
23:29
Um, and, and that's kind of the lovely thing that when I tell him that there
23:34
is a specific, um, like, you know, a Rembrandt that I have in mind of what this
23:40
should look like, he knows exactly what I mean, and he's the one that can bring
23:43
it to fruition because he knows where the light should be and how it should at
23:46
what time and all those wonderful things.
23:48
Yeah.
23:49
So it's, it's beautiful.
23:50
It's a, it's a great, we have a great relationship otherwise, but making
23:53
books together is just so amazing.
23:55
Yes.
23:55
Very good.
23:56
The next chapter then goes on to lunch, I guess, soup Salad.
23:59
And Sammy's.
24:01
And Sammy's.
24:02
Yeah.
24:02
And you know, soups, you, you, you pick your time to have 'em Right,
24:06
right now is a very soupy time.
24:09
Um, and uh, like one of the most special ones in here is the French
24:13
onion soup, because I. Cr I mean, I obviously didn't create this recipe.
24:18
This is a very old recipe that I, I developed through my own, um, work.
24:24
But it is a, it is a very traditional recipe, and the, but
24:27
the reason I wanted to make this specific one was because my father.
24:31
Loved French onion soup and he would eat any french onion soup.
24:36
And he was just a grumpy old guy when he went to a restaurant
24:39
and he didn't like something.
24:41
And it was plenty clear that he ate a lot of bad french onion soups
24:44
'cause you could smell the burnt onion, uh, from across the table.
24:49
And it turned out that when he was a, he was 18 years old, just graduated
24:52
from high school in Birmingham, Alabama, and immediately was conscripted and
24:56
went into World War II and landed in Normandy like a couple weeks in.
25:00
Um, and he never talked about the war, but he talked about food.
25:04
He talked about the food that he discovered in France, and it was a
25:08
French onion soup that was served to him from a family there that used the
25:12
last of their onions to make this thing.
25:15
And it was transformative for him.
25:18
It was so good that even a really crappy french onion soup it.
25:23
That memory was strong enough and beautiful enough that he could
25:26
conjure goodness from something that was potentially quite terrible.
25:32
Yeah.
25:32
Yeah.
25:33
And I wanted to find out what that was.
25:35
And so I grew the onions that only grow in France that they would've used.
25:39
'cause you can't get them here.
25:41
And I went through that whole journey, talk about patience.
25:44
I planted the onions seeds indoors in, in early February on his birthday.
25:48
I harvested them late July.
25:51
And then I wasn't gonna make soup in July, but I had to cure the onions
25:54
anyway, so I cured the onions so that the, out the outer papers, you can
25:58
store them longer if they dry well.
26:01
Uh, and then when it came wintertime, I, I got my, my stock bones and I
26:05
went through the whole thing and it was truly a transformative.
26:09
Experience of doing that whole journey, but also eating that soup, um, and really
26:15
deep diving into what it should be.
26:17
A lot of people truly over brown their onions, but if you, uh, read the
26:23
literature of like Esca and like the great chefs, they say the translations are
26:29
off to Amer to English, that you're not supposed to brow your un, you caramelize
26:34
it for hours, but you don't scorch 'em.
26:36
And I think that's one of the things that has been mistranslated and,
26:39
and and done incorrectly in a lot of french onion soups in, in the States.
26:44
Yeah.
26:44
Um, but that doesn't mean that you read the recipe in, the first thing
26:47
I say is first plant your seed.
26:50
Well, tell us about the, the onion though, that you grew for this.
26:53
What type of onion is it and what makes it different and
26:56
special for this type of soup?
26:59
So it's called a Rose de Rosoff onion, and it's, it's grown in Brittany.
27:03
Um, it is, it's beautiful.
27:05
It's, it's pink, but it's not like the same as a, as a
27:08
red onion you would get here.
27:10
Um, they are slightly smaller.
27:13
You like produce in Europe.
27:15
Nothing is supersized.
27:16
So they're very condensed and they have a sh a ton of
27:19
flavor and a more compact body.
27:22
And the beauty of it is that it is just this very tender rose colored on the
27:26
outside, and then it slowly gets kind of this lovely creamy color on the inside.
27:31
And it has all I, when I developed this recipe, I said, I have to get onions
27:36
that you can find in the grocery stores so you can replicate this flavor.
27:39
And it took three different types of onions to replicate both the
27:42
flavor and the texture because you want an onion that actually holds
27:46
up to hours of caramelization.
27:50
Many of them will disintegrate, but some of the ones that disintegrate give
27:53
you the flavor that you still need.
27:55
So it took three onions to do, to do the work of the one.
27:59
Um, but you can find them.
28:01
But the rose to Rosoff is special in that it will hold,
28:04
its um, it will hold its shape.
28:06
It won't disintegrate entirely.
28:08
So you still get that lovely mouthfeel.
28:10
Yeah.
28:10
And it has all that great flavor.
28:12
Yeah.
28:12
You know, it's fascinating.
28:13
You said generation X. We don't like to ask questions, but,
28:17
and now we're asking questions.
28:18
But the generation that went to war, they call 'em the silent generation.
28:22
They didn't, they didn't talk about it.
28:24
But the one thing that got your father to open his mouth and remember,
28:28
and, and express his time in France was a soup, was food in general.
28:35
He would tell these great stories of the amazing meals he had in France.
28:40
Um, and he, and he told us more stories of the war as he was older.
28:45
But, but food, those stories we got.
28:48
We got early on.
28:49
Yeah.
28:49
Because he and I, he and I were like, you know, oil and, and water.
28:55
Like we, we did not get along well, but he and I, when we, we
28:59
could talk about food for ages.
29:00
Yeah.
29:01
Yeah.
29:02
Fascinating.
29:02
And he, well, I bet that was very, you know, for him though, and
29:06
for you to be able to connect.
29:08
Uh, related to food.
29:10
Yeah.
29:11
Even though there are other areas of, uh, conflict, I think that it still says
29:15
something about how, uh, that food really probably sustained him in a lot of more
29:21
ways than just, you know, nutritionally.
29:23
Absolutely, absolutely right.
29:25
Absolutely.
29:26
Yeah.
29:27
Very interesting.
29:28
All right, so in the luncheon, uh, what else is in the chapter?
29:30
We got sandwiches.
29:32
Soups, salads.
29:34
Salads.
29:35
Yeah.
29:35
Well, I mean German cucumber salad.
29:37
My mother was German and it's, um, oh, it's one of a childhood favorite.
29:42
And I was a child who did not like vegetables or a lot of fruits.
29:45
So the German cucumber salad was one of the things that I adored as a child.
29:51
And it's got this great Christmas overall flavor.
29:54
Just, it's bright, I mean it tick all of the boxes.
29:58
Um, also, I, I'm a huge fan of buttermilk dressing, but I really am.
30:06
So gross to have by so many of the ones that like from ranch buttermilk, what
30:11
you name it, they often go rancid on the shelf and I will smell something
30:18
and I'll be like, it's already rancid and it's just this terrible flavor.
30:22
And so I created this recipe where I take a lot of the Dr, essentially
30:26
making it a pantry staple.
30:28
I create my own dry mix so that I only have to add, uh, the sour
30:33
cream, the mayo, and the whole milk.
30:34
And the buttermilk is dried buttermilk.
30:36
So you're like, the second you make it, it's this fresh,
30:40
beautiful, tangy bomb that, um.
30:44
I love so much and the fact that it's dry.
30:46
You can like hold back on some of the more wet ingredient
30:48
and it will be your ranch dip.
30:50
You can use it as a dip, which I love.
30:51
Yeah.
30:51
That's amazing.
30:52
Uh, it, and it's, and it's super fun.
30:54
And then there's the goat cheese party salad.
30:57
Uh uh, which is, which is also one of my favorites.
31:00
And the nice thing about it's that you can, you can throw all the veggies into
31:04
it that you've just got hanging around.
31:05
I mean, you don't have to abide by what I do, but, um, you have to, you
31:10
must put the amount of goat cheese I put in it, otherwise it's not Right.
31:14
Yeah.
31:14
Calls you have stick to the amount of goat cheese.
31:17
It does look very good.
31:18
Yeah.
31:18
We have to talk about a tomato sandwich.
31:20
Yeah.
31:21
My aunt sis, my Ansys was so amazing.
31:24
She, she, my dad's sister.
31:27
Raised in the south.
31:28
My mom was an, so I'll talk about my mom first because she was a,
31:32
um, very strict, strict person as far as food was concerned.
31:37
We were raised vegan and we were raised and specifically on the macrobiotic diet.
31:41
Hmm.
31:41
So it was a lot of brown rice, a lot of tofu, a lot of chickpeas.
31:46
Um, a lot, I mean.
31:48
I'm just gonna be honest.
31:49
A lot of stomach aches for me as a kid.
31:51
Uh, but when in the summertime we either went to Germany to see
31:55
my family there or we went to the south to see my family there.
31:58
And uh, when we went to see an Aunt Sis in the south, she was such a great cook and
32:03
she like had all the things I didn't get.
32:05
Like she would store all the American cheese I could shove into my, my pie hole.
32:10
I mean, she was so fantastic.
32:12
And so when one day she said, would you like a sandwich?
32:15
I was like, heck yeah.
32:17
'cause I knew it would include the best things.
32:20
Squishy white bread, like lettuce that had no nutritional value, only crunch
32:26
that would have all the condiments that were yummy, yummy, yummy.
32:29
And probably a processed meat and a processed cheese.
32:33
So I was just beside myself with happiness and she handed me a
32:37
sandwich with just a big old.
32:39
Tomato in it.
32:39
Yep.
32:40
And I was so bummed.
32:42
I was so bummed.
32:44
And she just had this twinkle in her eye.
32:46
It was on the right bread.
32:47
So that's why I took a bite to begin with.
32:49
I'm like, I will like the bread.
32:51
And when I took that bite, it was transformative because
32:55
it was so, so delicious.
32:58
It was a tomato that right now I feel like you can only get a tomato
33:03
like that if you grow it yourself or you get it from a farmer's market.
33:06
Yeah, it was sweet.
33:07
It had beautiful texture.
33:10
I mean, it was, it was of the beef steak variety, and it was
33:15
big enough that one slice could cover the whole slice of bread.
33:18
And then she seasoned it perfectly as one should, and it was great Mayo.
33:23
It was like a Dukes.
33:24
So yeah.
33:25
Perfect.
33:25
Perfect.
33:26
I love her.
33:26
Your description of her, it says that she lived on a beach house.
33:32
On stilts overlooking the ocean.
33:33
In Florida?
33:35
Yeah.
33:35
That was her summer.
33:36
That was her summer house.
33:37
Yeah.
33:37
And she was tall and lanky, dark wavy.
33:40
Here she made candy.
33:41
I mean, you know, people that could make candy.
33:43
This is not like an everyday thing.
33:46
She was, I, I think of everyone in my family, I, I favor her
33:51
the most, I think in, in looks.
33:54
Period.
33:55
Yeah.
33:55
And, uh, and also in the things that she enjoyed doing and that she was good at.
33:59
She, I, I am my, my aunt sister's, um, niece for sure.
34:03
And she had a pile of recipes, mostly sweets.
34:06
Yes, she did great.
34:07
I mean, that's why, and, but, you know, tomato sandwich, it's like,
34:12
it's iconic for the south, but it's just, it really is iconic.
34:15
Yeah.
34:15
Yes.
34:15
And I just, but I didn't know from it.
34:17
Yeah.
34:17
And I didn't know, but she was like, she, she's like, and she knew me well
34:21
enough, the things that I knew that if she liked it, I would like it.
34:24
And I'm like, I should have, I should have trusted her more.
34:26
She was a woman that, during the depression, um, all
34:30
the kids would come to her.
34:30
'cause I think she was one of the older sisters and she could
34:34
bring as many kids as she could.
34:37
If they had an adult with them, they, the kids could go
34:39
for free, but she had to pay.
34:41
So what everyone was required to do, if she was gonna take them to
34:44
the movies, they had to bring over as much sugar as they could muster.
34:49
They would bring her the sugar and she would like right away,
34:53
make hard candy that they would then take to the movie theater.
34:56
Oh my gosh.
34:56
They did not have a thermometer.
34:58
Yeah.
34:58
So she was one of those people.
34:59
And then she didn't, she didn't do the, she didn't do the water test either.
35:03
She didn't do the ice water test.
35:04
She could just tell, and I can do that now.
35:07
But it, it takes a long time.
35:09
It does take a long time to just look at sugar as it is boiling and
35:13
knowing when it is at hard crack.
35:16
Yeah.
35:16
And she did that.
35:17
She did that because you just made candy so often.
35:19
Amazing.
35:20
And I'm like, yeah, she was the best.
35:22
That's great.
35:23
Very good.
35:24
So the next chapter's, the nibbles and the sides.
35:27
Nibbles and sides.
35:29
Yeah.
35:29
Yes.
35:29
So things like Lani, uh, poached White asparagus, which I also talk,
35:35
well it is a very German thing for, uh, we celebrate Christmas on the
35:40
20, in the evening of the 24th.
35:42
And this was something that was always on the table.
35:45
It was the white asparagus.
35:49
It is reakfast, which are a breakfast that are tiny.
35:53
Tiny.
35:53
It's the only kind I will accept as a broad first and it's the best.
35:57
Oh yeah.
35:57
And then, and then we would have my mom's potato salad.
36:00
And then she would always make a celeriac salad, which I'm gonna tell you I hate,
36:05
one of the things I don't grow don't eat.
36:07
Uh, but it had to be on the table.
36:09
Yeah.
36:10
Um, but I think one of the magical things about asparagus is people are
36:14
like, how do you grow white asparagus?
36:16
Well, the answer is you just grow any old asparagus, you just cover
36:20
it with a totally opaque CLOs.
36:22
The only deal is it cannot see light.
36:24
And so it could be a purple asparagus, a green asparagus.
36:28
They can all be white asparagus if you keep them from the sun.
36:31
And I think that is the coolest thing ever.
36:35
Speaking of not having light, like the chickens don't have
36:37
it, they don't lay the eggs.
36:38
Mm-hmm.
36:39
But when we cover the asparagus, I guess the chlorophyll or the,
36:42
the coloring chlorophyl doesn't, just doesn't develop all the color.
36:44
No, it doesn't.
36:45
So black of light, but yet the plant still grows.
36:48
It still grows, yeah.
36:49
And the thing is that it's a perennial, so you can plant it once and you'll get it
36:52
for years after, which is oh, for someone like me, when you're like, oh, I'm so glad
36:57
I have a few crop, like I have perennial leaks and I have, um, perennial asparagus,
37:03
and it's like, oh, it's gonna come back.
37:05
I'm so happy.
37:06
Yes.
37:07
You need to tell me about the ugly tomato, cheesy bean dip.
37:13
Oh, well this is a fantastic, fantastic.
37:15
It's a, this is, so it's under nipples, but I'm gonna be honest, we will have
37:20
this as a breakfast and as a dinner depending on how you, um, address it.
37:26
So it is, what I do is when, um, my tomatoes are at their best and
37:30
they're, they're always some that are super ugly that you don't know.
37:34
Like even if you slice 'em, they look terrible, but you
37:36
know that they're super sweet.
37:38
Um, I will put them in the freezer, uh, and so I'll have them for
37:43
winter time for things like this.
37:46
Um, but it's that kind of dip that you are just like, it's got
37:50
beautiful beans, it's got a little chili crisp for a tiny bit of heat.
37:55
It has, you know, just.
37:58
Ah, all the good things from onion a little bit.
38:01
I put a little spinach in there just so that I'm eating something
38:03
green and you don't really notice it because there's so much cheese on top.
38:07
It's just one of those things that it's this beautiful bowl of nonsense that is so
38:12
delicious that you can eat it with a fork.
38:15
I, I served this to Kelly Clarkson and I had bread there,
38:19
and she just dug in with a fork.
38:20
She just needed.
38:21
That's all she needed.
38:22
And I'm like, I think I love you.
38:23
Yeah.
38:24
Um, but it is one of those things that it seems so simple, but the way you, you
38:29
make it, it has so much flavor and so much deep flavor that you can't stop eating it.
38:35
It is truly a beautiful dish, and it's one that you can just literally
38:39
serve as a dip, or I will like.
38:42
I will fry some eggs, make it, you know, breakfast or I will put,
38:47
cut up some sausages and like add a little more protein for dinner.
38:50
And it is just so yummy.
38:51
Yeah.
38:52
It's addictive.
38:52
And something that appears because you all are so close to Vermont, uh, to
38:57
Montreal in Vermont is the poutine.
39:00
The poutine.
39:01
Yeah.
39:01
Poutine is such a good thing.
39:02
Yeah.
39:03
I mean, if you, and it's interesting, it's, it's funny, I, I go to so many
39:07
places where cheese curds are available.
39:10
It breaks my heart when I go someplace where they are not,
39:12
and I'm like, you are missing out on so much good squeaky cheese.
39:15
But I think poutine is such a great thing because especially around
39:19
now when there tends to be more gravy about, uh, and more potatoes.
39:25
Mm-hmm.
39:26
I mean, what a great time just to break them out.
39:28
And even if you don't have cheese curds, you can use, like, you can
39:30
dice up some mozzarella or even some cheddar and just use that instead.
39:34
But it's such a fun, yummy meal and, um, it's so, it's so warming.
39:41
Ah, it's so good.
39:42
Yeah.
39:43
Alrighty.
39:44
We got another chapter.
39:45
This is a bigger chapter called Feast.
39:47
Tell us what the concept behind this chapter is.
39:51
Well, these are more whole meals.
39:53
So, um, you can think of like the nibbles and things like that.
39:56
All as sides are more like appetizers, but these would be like whole meals.
40:01
Uh, things that are more hearty.
40:03
Um, one, you know, I love them all, but one that is really near
40:06
and dear is the Tomago Don, which is a chicken and egg rice dish.
40:12
Uh, that's Japanese.
40:13
And my husband introduced it to me.
40:16
He's Japanese, he's half Japanese American.
40:18
His mom is Japanese American.
40:19
Um, and it was a staple in their household, and it is truly one
40:23
of the most comforting meals you will ever have in your whole life.
40:27
It's super simple.
40:29
It is crazy delicious.
40:31
And, um, I doctor it with, we're lucky enough that we have morales
40:36
on our property, so I go foraging for them and I will dry them.
40:39
So I'll eat them both fresh and I'll have them stored for meals
40:42
like this in, in the wintertime.
40:45
Yeah, it looks like a, I mean, the ingredient list is short,
40:48
make a sauce, and then you have onion, the morales eggs, rice.
40:53
And then Spring onion.
40:54
Super simple.
40:55
Yep.
40:55
The thing I, uh, the thing I like about the world we live in now is that
41:00
I have not been to a place, a grocery store anywhere in the country where I
41:04
can't go down that aisle that has like soy sauce and not find mirin as well.
41:09
And then Doshi powder is becoming more and more common and it's
41:12
something that I think everybody should have in their pantry.
41:15
And it's one of those things that it will, it will last forever, and it
41:18
will, it is such a lovely seasoning.
41:21
It brings such a little burst of umami that is so worth having in your pantry.
41:25
You won't, you will not regret it.
41:27
I think you're right, supermarkets, it's, uh, fascinating.
41:30
The breadth of things that we can find.
41:33
It's, yeah, we're truly very fortunate to be able to do that.
41:37
All right, now we get into your favorites, the sweets.
41:42
Yes.
41:42
And this is where you really, I mean, so many good recipes prior
41:45
to that, but then you also have a really nice essentials chapter.
41:48
So let's talk about the sweets first.
41:49
'cause how did you decide what to put in the book?
41:53
I mean, it's interesting because I, I wanted to do, do things to
41:57
me that were on the simpler side.
42:00
And sometimes we were like, those are, some of them are
42:02
simple, but some of them aren't.
42:03
I'm like, well, to me they're, they're not like patisserie.
42:06
You have to like, you're doing gaze.
42:09
Uh, so when I did, there's a bunt in there that is a yeasted bunt, but it's not
42:13
something that's gonna take you forever.
42:14
But it's also something that the assembly is familiar.
42:18
It's, it's part monkey bread, part like.
42:22
Roll, like cinnamon roll, but in this case it's blueberries and, and lemon.
42:26
And then you put it in a bunt and it, it's beautiful too.
42:29
So there's not a lot of work you have to do to make this beautiful.
42:32
Most people have, uh, either a bunt or an angel food pan and it comes out great.
42:38
Um, and then there are other things that I made that, uh, like the Ellen Sunshine
42:42
cake, also making things beautiful without having to like make layers.
42:47
Which is something, 'cause I love a layer cake, but I'm like, I'm just, I'm gonna
42:50
hold back and I'm gonna make a cake.
42:53
That is really beautiful, but that you don't have to spend hours decorating that.
42:57
The decoration kind of bakes in with the bunt.
43:00
Um, and it is super lemony and super fantastic.
43:04
Um, and it makes me really happy because it in incorporates a, an ingredient
43:09
that people might not be familiar with.
43:11
There are complimentary ingredients, like a more typical thing would be
43:15
like almond extract with cherries.
43:17
It's complimentary in that it does not bring, uh, if you use it in
43:21
the right amount, a lot of almond flavor, it just enhances the cherry
43:25
because they share an enzyme.
43:27
So it is complimentary.
43:29
And for lemon zest, its complimentary flavor is juniper berry.
43:34
If you use powdered juniper berry, it will just elevate the zest
43:40
instead of like, suddenly you're thinking I'm having a gin and tonic.
43:43
Which is not a bad thing, but that's not what, how it reads.
43:47
It reads as this is beautifully lemony.
43:51
And, and the reason I developed and I made this cake was because
43:54
my friend Ellen, it was in the dead of winter and she was just craving
43:58
sunshine and something very citrusy.
44:00
And she found a recipe, uh, for a cake that used the whole lemon.
44:05
And, but the problem was, it was just so bitter because of
44:09
all the pith that was used.
44:11
And the assumption was that because you're using the whole citrus,
44:15
that it will be more citrusy.
44:17
It just ended up being too bitter for her.
44:19
And I said, I've got your back.
44:21
This is, I, I've, I know exactly how to do what you need.
44:24
And that's how this, um, cake came to be.
44:27
And so Ellen now has her sunshine cake.
44:29
Yeah.
44:29
Are juniper berries edible?
44:32
They are, they're, yes.
44:33
I love juniper trees.
44:34
They're gorgeous, evergreen, they're, and of course the berries, but the berries
44:37
that are on a juniper tree that are something that could be forged and eaten.
44:40
Yeah.
44:40
And I dehydrate them and then I powder them.
44:42
And juniper berries are the, the main, um, element of gin.
44:47
So that's where you get that lovely, um, botanical taste.
44:50
Yeah.
44:51
So great.
44:51
Primarily pr, primarily for gin.
44:53
There are plenty of people I know who had gin and tonics who have
44:56
been just fine, that's for sure.
44:59
So it's the holiday season, uh, cookie or a dessert here that
45:03
you might want to, uh, recommend.
45:07
I mean, there, there, it's funny, I just made the, um, gatto concord, so if you're
45:11
going for something a little more, um, uh, elevated something fancy, so like kind of
45:18
a showstopper, but something that again.
45:21
I really am holding myself back from doing all the fancy stuff.
45:24
I was like, this looks really fun, but it's not something that's
45:27
gonna take you forever to decorate.
45:29
Uh, but it is full of just gorgeous fluffy chocolate mousse and chocolate meringue.
45:36
And it was developed originally for the, the Concord for the flight on Air France.
45:43
Uh, where they had, of course, like, you know, it's beyond like, is there
45:46
something better than first class?
45:47
It was the Concord.
45:48
Um, and Gastro Gaston, who's was one of the most famous pastry chefs in France,
45:55
they asked him to develop this recipe.
45:57
Um, and so I, um, I kind of made it my own by using my favorite MOUs recipe and, um,
46:05
my favorite chocolate meringue recipe and.
46:08
I don't know that it's better because I, I never flew the Concord, so who's to say?
46:13
But if I got a slice of this cake, I would've been, uh, super happy.
46:17
But, uh, but you just, you kind of break up little, um, tubes of meringue that you
46:23
bake and you just put 'em on the side and you can put 'em on it however you like.
46:26
Uh, but it's super fun that you can just shove, just broken meringue
46:30
on the side of a cake and you're like, yeah, they're kind of uneven.
46:33
It looks very, um, it's, it looks like it's a beautiful cake, but
46:37
I love how it has the different heights of the little meringue rolls.
46:41
It almost looks like a very disorganized organ, you know?
46:43
Yeah.
46:44
Yeah.
46:44
A pipe organ.
46:46
Yeah, that looks good.
46:47
So the story about your mother's sister in the package full of goodies that
46:52
arrived every December has me piqued my curiosity, because that's one of my very
46:57
favorite things to do is, uh, from, I spend about 10 days in December, baking
47:03
and, uh, making bourbon balls and yeah.
47:07
Um, I'm getting ready to get started next week as a matter of fact, but
47:10
tell me what it was like as a child to receive that package from your aunt
47:15
and talk about the recipe that's in the book that relates to her goodie box.
47:20
Well, she had, she did.
47:22
Really traditional, uh, spritz cookies, German spritz cookies and other things.
47:27
My mom made a lot of cookies too.
47:28
Mm-hmm.
47:29
Uh, that's when she broke from the whole, uh, vegan thing.
47:31
Um, but these were part I liked particularly because they surprised me.
47:37
They surprised me because.
47:39
Uh, as I told you with the Ansys story, I was very pro, um,
47:44
not very, not healthy things.
47:46
I, the Colemans next door had the fantasy, fantasy life.
47:49
I wanted.
47:50
Everything was like packaged in plastic and tin and was completely artificial.
47:55
And so when she first started coming around with these and they
47:58
had oats, I was having none of it.
48:00
I was like, oatmeal, heck no.
48:03
Um, but kind of like the tomato sandwich when I took a bite, I
48:06
was like, this is really good.
48:08
And the chocolate in it is really creamy.
48:11
And the oats, instead of being, oh no, there's fiber.
48:15
It ends up being this fabulous texture.
48:17
So you get this kind of dichotomy of the texture and
48:20
the creamy, uh, that is so nice.
48:23
And, and they're really simple.
48:25
So they usually are falling apart a little when, once they are
48:28
shipped, and it's like, no biggie.
48:30
You just, like, you kind of grab in there and you get what you get and you're happy.
48:35
Which I think is just such a great thing.
48:37
Yeah.
48:38
And the cookie platter on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day, there's nothing like it.
48:43
No.
48:43
No.
48:44
And it's a, it makes life really e much simpler.
48:47
Yeah.
48:47
The making of them isn't simple, but by the time everything is done and you know
48:50
that this is going to be dessert guys.
48:53
Right.
48:53
The things I was working on for days.
48:56
Yeah.
48:57
It's just, it's a, it's a great tradition, so I love that.
49:00
It really is.
49:00
You receive that as a child, then you have a really nice, uh, essentials
49:04
chapter with a variety of recipes in it, from eggs to different types of bread.
49:10
Uh, talk a little bit about this chapter and what your goal was
49:13
and, uh, what you want the readers to take away from this chapter.
49:17
I, I think for me this was about, there are a lot of recipes that incorporate
49:23
these things, but for things like the bread, if you are not inclined
49:28
to make the bread, you don't have to.
49:31
So that's why I put the recipe at the end so that if that's
49:34
something you wanna tackle here, I, I've, I'm holding your hand.
49:38
I'm here for you.
49:38
I will give you the best recipe, but if it's something that you are not
49:41
going to be willing to tackle, fine.
49:44
No judgment.
49:45
Yeah.
49:45
And things like rice, they're like, it sounds silly, but there's a very specific
49:50
way of making different kinds of rice.
49:52
And I wanted to kind of like, I wanted to be as specific as possible
49:56
with timing and things to do.
49:58
So specifically, if you've got a gas stove and, and you don't have a ri
50:02
so you don't have a rice maker and you don't have a really, there are
50:05
some gorgeous Japanese pots where you don't need to do anything different.
50:09
But if you still, if you can find your flame tamer, which always comes with
50:13
a gas oven that people usually like store away in this weird cubby hole
50:17
and they don't remember where it is.
50:18
It's that like flat, uh, cast iron thing that goes on top, uh, of the grate.
50:24
And it will, it will tame that flame.
50:27
So that you don't overcook that rice or burn it right in that center bottom
50:33
area, which always, no matter how good your pot is, um, and then giving you the
50:38
exact timing, uh, whether you need to wash the rice or not, and all that fun stuff.
50:43
Quinoa too.
50:44
Quinoa is one of those things that it's, it wa it has been so trendy,
50:48
but a lot of people don't like it because it's bitter, because it has
50:51
something called s sapan in them, which make it taste bitter and soapy.
50:57
Uh, but it's only on the outer part of it, so you, you should rinse
51:01
it off and you will find quinoa.
51:02
Now, that actually says on there that it has been rinsed, and that's
51:05
what that means, that they've already done the rinsing for you.
51:08
But if it doesn't, you need to rinse that off so that it
51:12
actually is as tasty as it can be.
51:15
And just giving little tips and tricks with things that are
51:17
pantry essentials that you can use in recipes beyond this book.
51:21
Like you're going to eat quinoa.
51:22
That's not in a recipe in this book, but I'm gonna tell you how
51:25
to make it so that it's not bitter and how to cook it properly.
51:28
And to me, that brings me great joy to like pass along those things
51:32
that sometimes only chefs know, which I think is very unfair.
51:35
Yeah.
51:35
It's like, you should know this, you're making this at home and you might
51:38
be baffled why some, like some chef said, this is the best recipe ever.
51:42
And everybody's like, yeah, I ate his recipe at his restaurant.
51:45
It was fantastic.
51:46
And then you make it at home and you're like, why does this taste bad?
51:49
And you're like, well, because he, he, there was a step
51:52
he did not tell you about.
51:54
Yeah.
51:54
Or she, I should say.
51:55
Yeah.
51:56
Rinsing that off is important.
51:58
Alright, I gotta ask the tips on the German whole grain bread since your
52:01
mother was probably an inspiration, I would imagine, for this recipe and, um,
52:06
the approachableness of it in a kitchen.
52:09
Because I think learning to make something like this, um, from someone who actually,
52:15
you know, lived in that country, taught you, I bet it is an amazing recipe.
52:20
And tell me.
52:22
Tell me all about it.
52:24
Well, I think one of the things that's important to
52:25
know that it is a dense bread.
52:26
Yeah.
52:27
I think the way it comes out is not the, so it, you'll
52:30
often see these kinds of bread.
52:32
Usually they're all rectangular.
52:34
Yes.
52:34
They're usually, um, wrapped, uh, in smaller loaves.
52:39
Uh, they don't have, um, they don't have a butt end and they're very thinly sliced.
52:44
It seems like they're very thinly sliced.
52:45
Right.
52:46
And they're often rye.
52:48
But they do not need to be.
52:50
Okay.
52:50
So that's one of the things that people are like, oh, it's always pumpernickel.
52:53
No, it's fo corn simply means whole grain bread.
52:56
And it can be different kinds of grain.
52:58
A lot of times it's spelt.
53:00
Um, and, but in this case, I just ask you to use whole grain flour, which,
53:05
you know, cho choose your adventure.
53:08
Uh, they're often gonna act very similarly in that because they're whole grain.
53:13
Um, they have all the germ and the wonderful fibers that I now love.
53:17
Not as a kid, that's, they're, they're still present.
53:20
So when you mix them, unlike a very refined flour, uh, that will create
53:28
a lot of great glutenous structure.
53:30
These will not because they cannot.
53:32
Yeah.
53:32
Um, and it's because there are so many shards in it from those
53:37
fibrous bits that are cutting through, forming gluten strands.
53:41
So they're naturally more dense, but they're also dense with flavor
53:45
and they're dense with fiber.
53:46
Uh, and so adding things like honey just kind of rounds out that flavor.
53:51
And then adding inclusions, like sunflower seeds, gives it really wonderful texture.
53:55
And I just love this bread.
53:57
I, I eat it with butter and radishes like a French person, but it's just,
54:01
it's super tasty and it's kind of addictive once you start getting into it.
54:06
And it makes for, for great, um, open face sandwiches.
54:10
Um, it's just super, super and it's all actually really easy to make.
54:15
You just have to know what you're not going to get, which is lightened, fluffy.
54:18
Yes.
54:19
You're not gonna get it.
54:19
It's a d different style of bread, but like you said, different.
54:21
It's perfect for exactly what you, what you mentioned it for.
54:24
Open face sandwiches.
54:25
Uh.
54:26
Yeah.
54:26
And, and the butter and radishes is a great, a great use of it.
54:29
And I think I, I love when I write recipes, I love to tell you the why of it.
54:34
Like, why are you doing this?
54:35
And it's, it's, some people just say, because I said so, and
54:38
oftentimes because they don't know, it's just the way that it's done.
54:41
But I like to give you the why, but I also like to tell you like about
54:45
consistencies, about how things are gonna look, if it might alarm you.
54:49
And I do this because the, the texture of this dough before
54:52
it's baked is a little paste.
54:53
Like, and that can, like, if you don't know it's supposed to be that way,
54:57
you're gonna think you've done it wrong.
54:59
So I think it's really important to like, highlight things
55:02
that, like you're making bread.
55:04
It's, and so you're gonna have to tell someone it's not
55:07
gonna look like bread dough.
55:08
Right.
55:09
Right.
55:10
Yep.
55:10
Very good.
55:11
I'm gonna have to give that a try this winter because, uh, love that
55:13
kind of bread and, you know, we can, uh, find it at our supermarket.
55:18
There's another supermarket in Cincinnati that sells a lot of it, but some of
55:22
the best that I've had, we found, um.
55:24
At a supermarket when we went to Chicago and um, so just absolutely delicious.
55:30
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna definitely give that a try and I mean, often you will find
55:35
the bread, the breads you'll buy here are not made in the states and they are rye.
55:39
And one of the things about rye in Europe, it's a different strand and it bakes
55:44
up very differently than our rye here.
55:47
So this is why I said whole grain flour.
55:49
Yeah, you can choose to use rye.
55:51
It will not bake up the same as a rye flour in Austria or Germany.
55:57
Where those rye breads are, are usually made and are often shipped here.
56:03
Uh, you're not going to get the same either finished dough or, or rise the,
56:10
those have a little more give to them.
56:12
Our rye is in the states is a bit different.
56:15
Yeah.
56:15
Okay.
56:16
All right.
56:16
Well, I'll follow your, I'll follow your instructions and I look forward
56:19
to making it so as we're wrapping up.
56:23
Here we are on the Cookbook Love podcast.
56:25
Love to talk about cookbooks.
56:26
I'm curious if you, um, I believe you mentioned a cookbook, uh, a couple of
56:30
years ago, but if there's any other cookbook that's been, um, inspirational
56:35
or a partner in the kitchen for you recently that you would like to mention?
56:40
Uh, I had the great pleasure of visiting, um, the headquarters of Modernist Cuisine.
56:46
Oh.
56:47
Uh, and, uh, the kind of knowledge that they have gathered in one
56:54
place and have then, um, put into their books is just astronomical.
57:02
Yeah.
57:02
Uh.
57:03
Unfortunately, a lot of their books are really cost prohibitive.
57:07
Um, but if like as a professional, it behooves me to have them because
57:12
it just brings me great joy to read them because they're looking into the
57:15
things that I have great interest in.
57:17
It's the big old why, uh, but having spent time with them in those labs,
57:23
just talking shop and about the things we love is just so wonderful.
57:29
And having those books as resources is fantastic.
57:33
And when they go about, um.
57:37
SA subject, the, I think the last one was bread.
57:41
They've got a pastry one coming up.
57:42
They consult the greatest minds in the field.
57:46
And one of the things about, it's interesting, I had a long discussion
57:50
about rye being of a rye culture.
57:53
My mom's culture, uh, they wanted like the best rye recipe in there.
57:59
And so they flew over Austrian, um, bakers to make their rye.
58:05
And guess what?
58:06
Their bread did not turn out.
58:08
Oh.
58:09
And their bread did not turn out because they were using American rye.
58:12
And there, what that was, hence the discovery.
58:15
The discovery was you can have the best at what they do come to you and make it.
58:21
But unless they have the tools that, um.
58:25
They usually work with, it may not come out as well as you intended.
58:29
Um, and I think that's great knowledge learned that now
58:32
you're gonna have to adapt.
58:33
And, um, I think I, where they're sourcing their rye flour from in
58:37
Austria and Germany, well they, they grow it, it's a different grain.
58:40
It's a d it's, it is a different, it, it is it different type of rye.
58:44
So literally it's a different type of rye.
58:45
Mm-hmm.
58:46
Uh, and they grow it there and it, it feel it.
58:49
I have, I've worked with rye in Austria and Germany and America.
58:53
It feels different.
58:54
It's like when I'm working with soba, uh, with buckwheat flour, American buckwheat
58:59
flour, um, there is some American buckwheat flour that is soba grade.
59:03
It is a totally different animal than a regular old buckwheat flour.
59:07
It's kind of fascinating when you think about the word rah, like
59:10
the way things grow in different.
59:12
D different parts of the United States, different parts of the
59:15
world just because of the soil.
59:17
And that that happens even with grains.
59:20
Well, it's not just soil and it's also the strain of grain, perhaps.
59:23
It's also the strain.
59:24
Yeah.
59:24
So if you're thinking about tomatoes, when you go to the grocery store,
59:27
you're getting like this same kind of tomato again and again,
59:31
grown in a very specific way.
59:32
Mm-hmm.
59:33
But there are thousands of varietals, thousands that have different
59:38
textures, different skin colors, all these things, uh, different
59:42
amounts of sugar in them naturally.
59:45
Uh, some are paste tomatoes 'cause they're literally like these
59:48
really heavy, tiny tomatoes, but like, just really dense flesh.
59:53
Um.
59:54
If you can think of like the amazing amount of varietals of tomatoes, the same
59:58
is true of grain and, and it's specific to the place that you live in, that your
1:00:02
culture traditionally grows and uses.
1:00:05
Um, and so, and, and it is also terroir and I think it's so interesting.
1:00:11
There are some, and we have so many people that are very sensitive to the
1:00:15
different strains and want to grow them.
1:00:17
And so there's some like ants and mills in the south is doing.
1:00:23
The beautiful work in, in growing heritage and milling heritage grains.
1:00:29
Um, they have, they have done some beautiful stuff.
1:00:33
Uh, and I think that kind of trend is growing and that people
1:00:36
are doing, um, more and more heritage, grain growing and milling.
1:00:40
Yeah.
1:00:40
And I think that that's great for all of our mouths and bellies.
1:00:45
Yes.
1:00:45
Yes.
1:00:45
And I've seen, um, out and about shopping just for food ingredients at different
1:00:49
markets and stores, um, that very thing.
1:00:51
Yeah.
1:00:51
Um, there's Jan Janie's Mills here in the US Of course, I know King Arthur
1:00:55
does a lot of, uh, flowers and grains.
1:00:57
Um, here in Kentucky we have Weisenburger Mill and I saw a lot of their flowers
1:01:01
on the shelf at a market I went to.
1:01:04
So I think you're right.
1:01:04
And I think it's, uh, uh, really neat to see it happen because it
1:01:08
does change the baked goods and it.
1:01:12
Is a great way to support the local, uh, farming economy using natural.
1:01:16
Absolutely.
1:01:17
Yeah.
1:01:17
Yep.
1:01:18
I agree.
1:01:18
Very good.
1:01:19
All right.
1:01:19
Well, I'll, that's the modernist cuisine, and I think you're right.
1:01:21
I think they did recently have a bread book.
1:01:23
Um, yeah, they have a great, so they have two types.
1:01:26
They, they have like the big, the big old modernist cuisine, and they
1:01:29
have modernist cuisine at home.
1:01:31
So if you do, if you get the, like the first one, it, it will literally
1:01:36
cost you thousands of thousands of dollars because it's like, yeah.
1:01:38
I think one of them's multiple, like, uh, set, isn't it?
1:01:42
So for, yes.
1:01:43
For each, for each of their runs, depending on the subject.
1:01:45
The first thing that comes out will be a, a set of five or six
1:01:48
books and a supplement, and that's like the crazy expensive one.
1:01:52
And then they'll do one that's called at home, and that will be one book total.
1:01:56
I see.
1:01:57
And so that's what they'll, they do for every one of their projects.
1:01:59
Nice.
1:02:00
Very good.
1:02:01
It's great.
1:02:01
Great to hear you, uh, talk about that.
1:02:03
And so, uh, wonderful to hear that you got to go visit them.
1:02:07
Yes.
1:02:08
Well, um, it's been, they're special.
1:02:09
Yeah, they really are.
1:02:11
Really are.
1:02:12
Well, it's been terrific to catch up.
1:02:14
Learn all about your beautiful new book, my Harvest Kitchen.
1:02:16
Why don't you remind everybody how they can connect with you online?
1:02:21
Uh, all my handles on socials are at Gina G-E-S-I-N-E-B-P.
1:02:27
Mm-hmm.
1:02:28
Very good.
1:02:29
That's, uh, easy to remember.
1:02:31
And, uh, thank you so much for, um, everything you do for your beautiful
1:02:36
new book for coming on the show again.
1:02:38
It's been, uh, terrific to hear about the book and I wish you a great
1:02:42
holiday season, a nice winter time.
1:02:45
You too, success with your baking school.
1:02:47
And until the next time, I hope you have a great rest of 2025.
1:02:52
Happy winter.
1:02:53
Yes, you too.
1:02:55
Thanks a lot.
1:02:55
Thanks so much.
1:02:56
Thank you so much for joining us today for this episode of the Cookbook Love Podcast.
1:03:01
Again, all the links can be found in the show notes@www.cookbooklove.co.
1:03:06
And if you are interested in writing a cookbook of your own, please check out the
1:03:11
free cookbook writing masterclass called How to Get Paid to Write a Cookbook.
1:03:16
It is designed specifically for food or nutrition experts,
1:03:20
and you can check that out at www.cookbookwritersacademy.com/free.
1:03:28
So that's it for today's episode of the Cookbook Love podcast.
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This is your host, Maggie Green, and until next time, have a great
1:03:35
day and keep loving your cookbooks.
1:03:42
Thanks for listening to the Cookbook Love podcast.
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You can find out more information@www.cookbooklove.co.