Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S5 E25 - The Milk Carton That Changed America_ The Etan Kalil Patz Story Part 3

Transcript

S5 E25 - The Milk Carton That Changed America_ The Etan Kalil Patz Story Part 3 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hmm, hello, Hello, Oh my gosh, look at us looking
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: so vibrant and colorful tonight.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Well, I know, and I'm like going, okay, I'm not sure.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I like this new look. I love it for you.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I feel like I look like a vampire.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Wow, the glasses are taken a little bit to get
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: used to.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Well, you look fantastic.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, you do too? Could you always look
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: good even when you're on camera all damn day?
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you have I don't either. I
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: guess I don't know you've got those new glasses. Now
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: we'll see what your opinion is in a couple of days.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: So we'll see now that I could actually see right
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: and it's not all blurry, and I'm not like.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Terry, I'm gonna need you to break your glasses. Please.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: How are you? I feel like it's been forever in
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: a day.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: I know it does feel like it's been forever. Day.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I'm good, I am very good. I'm excited to wrap
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: this case up tonight, and I'll tell you what I
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: think about this case.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Way too much, I know, I have to say I'm ready.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: And tonight's a long one, it is.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: It is gonna be a long one. So everybody, if
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: you only have one bottle of wine, get two. Okay,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: I got to sitting right here beside me, which we'll
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: get into. Ah, thank you, lady and gray.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: But yes, what your glance is quite the word I
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: would use. I only have to use them working on
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: my computer.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I think they look at me. I'm honestly a little
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: surprised they're not pink. I'm gonna be honest with you.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: The not pink now, that's okay, I'm not pink tinted
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: or anything. Oh no, let's do a part for well.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: I mean there will be eventually.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: There will be eventually, just not today.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: Just not today, not now or in the next few weeks.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean our calendars are pretty booked through the
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: end of the year. But we'll talk more about that
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: in the coming days.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: That's true. Why don't you kick us off?
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: Terry? Of course, of course, everybody. I am Terry True
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Crime and I want to welcome you all to another
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: episode of True Crime and Wine Time, which is the
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: podcast where we in Cork the most jaw dropping true
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: crime stories and when we let Lama pick the cases,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: also the most disturbing cases while sipping something smooth to
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: take the edge off, or in some cases where you're
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: doing shots because it's just that bad, it's just okay,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: so you're going to want to pour a glass. Lock
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: your doors, people, please lock your doors, and let's get
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: ready for an episode that I can promise, like all
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: of our episodes is going to include eye rolls and
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: then lots of ryots, because there's a lot of ryots
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: coming tonight, a lot.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I'm still gonna probably be ranting, like a month from now,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: all my friends are gonna be like, Lama stap and
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: I'll be.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Like, no, I see it.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about it. Well, Hello, besties, and thanks
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: for watching tonight. Before we begin. If you're watching us
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: on YouTube, please hit that leg button because guess why
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Alama earns her gavel and Terry earns a glass of wine.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Just kidding. It helps the algorithm recognize us and be like,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: this is where the party is. So while you're doing that,
• 3:37
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• 3:42
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• 3:45
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• 3:48
  Speaker 1: we'll get into the perks after later in this episode
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: for sure. Just click the joining button and pick which
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: here works best for you. And if you're listening to
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: this as a pod, please leave a rating and a
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: review or a download, as it helps our little cod
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: get noticed. And if you want to see all the
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: eye rolls and snarks, you should add over to our
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: YouTube and watch the replay at YouTube dot com slash
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: True Crime Wine Time. This is where we are like
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: all of the time.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, Sammy and Amos. I'm gonna have to start sending
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: you all money if you just keep saying nice things.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: So okay, so I appreciate.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: It, Thank you.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: I didn't know there would be compensation for that.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean maybe you maybe you compensated them or
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: told them, Hey, just be extra nights to Terry today
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: because I'm wearing pink and Settle black as I wearn't black.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: We're finally back to our normal selves.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah we are now, I mean tonight, just say y'all know.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: We are covering part three of the case of Aton Paid,
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: a boy who's nineteen seventy nine disappearance captured the attention
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: of the world then and still captures our attention today.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: Tonight's episode is going to be a little bit longer
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: because we want to make sure we get everything in.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: But we didn't want to have an episode four. Okay,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So okay, now, captains, tell me I look like Ella
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: McPherson in the nineties. Okay, guys, now, guys, snuggle in.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Let you let me tell you what I'm drinking. But
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: first be totally honest. We postponed this episode last week
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: so we could do the Donald Atison verdict. Yeah, rank
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: the bottle of line that I had paired with this case. Yeah,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: but lucky for me, I still have my good old
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: reliable Saint Supri seven young Bloc.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, it has got you got me?
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: Wh got me a case for my birthday?
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: And that's the birthday. Oh. I love that.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I am down to six bottles because it is only
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: set tenth.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: It's been like seven weeks. I mean, that's that's fun.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: But remember I didn't drink for five Okay, because.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: You want to tell everybody your secrets, Terry, Hello, Kelly. Yeah, last,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not our fault. Last Thursday, we're sitting
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: here behind the stage getting ready to go live in
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: like twenty minutes for True Crime and wine time. Then
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: they're like, there's a verdict for Donna Atolson. We had
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: already opened our wine. We had no choice. We didn't
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: want the wine to go bad.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: We didn't wet.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Yes, So tonight I am drinking all of winery a
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: blueberry moscato. It's it's it's not very strong. Okay, it's delicious,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: but it's basically like a large size adult juice box.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Juice box, not jukebox. Maybe it's working. Maybe it's stronger
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: than I think. What's the alcohol content like six pointing
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, but I got two, so
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: don't worry about it. It'll be fine, alicious. I mean
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: where there's like eleven.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Minus thirteen point five? Yeah, girls, and I've already had
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: a glass.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well it's going to be a fun time.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Well hello, yeah, we're gonna need it. Hello, everybody that's here.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's very delicious. It's just you're gonna need
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: more than one I'm going to do.
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: So does it taste like blueberries or does it taste
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: like wine?
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: It tastes like juice, blueberry juice. It doesn't even really
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: taste like wine. It tastes like blueberry juice. So Okay,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess not that strong. I know, right,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: So just.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: You know, when Finland, a popular drink is real blueberry juice,
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: Like on the flight over, you don't get orange juice.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: You get blueberry fresh squeeze blueberry juice. And it's really
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: good with Tito's.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: I bet it is. Oh, I'm jealous of that. Tastes
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: like snosberries. That's right, it does taste like snospberries. Well
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: you guys with that, let's get into the story of
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Aton paints showy Terry. Why don't you catch us up
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: where we left off.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so so far. In our coverage on the disappearance
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: of Aton, we went over the events that took place
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: on that fateful day May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: We talked about two very troubling possible suspects, Jose Ramos
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: and a Miller, and we don't like either one of them. Okay,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: both of them were child predators and both had some
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: interaction and accessibility to Aton in his family. Now, neither
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: of those men were charged, and the case went unsolved
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: for thirty three years yep.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And then in twenty twelve came the arrest of Pedro Hernandez,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: who at the time of Aton's disappearance was eighteen years
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: old and worked out of Bodega not far from the
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: Pais's home. The only evidence they had that pointed to
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Pedro Hernandez was a series of questionable, very questionable confessions
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Pedro told to others over the decades, and then Pedro's
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, extremely coerced confession to the police, which
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: we'll get.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you put it nicely. I am give you kudos.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: You put it nicely. Girl. Do you have some more?
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Have some more that moscato and.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: You're gonna tell us how you really feel? And I'm
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: to tell you I really do.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Oh so yes. Trigger warning for everyone, because it's it's
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: not a great story. So many people, including ourselves, began
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: to question if Pedro was even the right guy. Guys.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: First and foremost, Pedro had serious mental illnesses and had
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: a very low IQ between sixty seven and seventy six,
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: making him quite the unreliable narrator. Second, there were serious
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: issues regarding the reality of the reality of his I'm
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: gonna say confessions and the tactics that were used to
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: obtain it. We can't go over all of them now.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: So please go back and watch part two of this
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: series where we examined it under a microscope because it's
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: bashit crazy. But Lama, why don't we get into it
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: this week?
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: All right? So we have so at this point in story,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: we have Pedro in jail for the murder and kidnapping
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: of Aton Pates, that little qutie patuity right there. Now,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: one would think that for the most part, the case
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: is solved, right, I mean, Aton's parents had him legally
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: declared dead and according to the State of New York's narrative,
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: he is no longer alive as well.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: So this thirty year old American man who had been
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: living in Europe for two years received a very strange
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: email from none other than the FBI. Now, the email
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: stated that the man may not be who he thought
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: he was, that his parents may not be his parents,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: and that maybe he wasn't where he thought he was,
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: that he may in fact actually be Aton Pates.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine having a bomb drop like that on you,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: like on a Wednesday, Like, what everything I've known about
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: myself may not be ye? No? Real? Wow? Now, this
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: guy had no idea who Aton Pates was, and he
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: did what any of us would do and went to Wikipedia.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: He agreed to talk to the FBI agent over the phone,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: who asked him questions about his life, like where he
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: grew up and went to school. The man, however, still
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: found this to be very strange, because, after all, he
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: was thirty and twenty fourteen, and that means he was
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: born in nineteen eighty four, eleven years after Aton was born.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: So the math amthin, and we're not great at mathere,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: but we know that mathiny mathin.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: We not good at math, but even I can say
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: that math doesn't work. So when this guy was doing
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: his research into Aton's story, he saw that Pedro Hernandez
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: had been arrested for murder of you know, the little boy.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: So he apparently asked the FBI agent, Hey, so, like,
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: if there's a guy getting ready to stand trial for
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: this murder, why are you guys still looking into tips
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: that Aton was still alive. Of course, he did not
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: get an answer.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: I mean that's a good question, I mean a very
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: good question.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: But if you don't have a body, do you ever
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: really close that door?
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: One? I mean, that's true, and I think we get
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: into that a little bit. But either way, I would
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: I would be asking that question too, like what anyway, Now,
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: this man saw that Pro Publica had published articles about
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: this case, so he reached out to them and he said,
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I thought you might want to know that the FBI
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: may be working to prove the child is alive. He
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: also went on to say, obviously I was surprised. I chuckled.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I thought it was funny because it was so unlikely
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that it would be possible that I could be this person,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: and I had no idea who Aton Pates was. And
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to be honest, I thought it was a hoax, which
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I would too.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I would too, but I just also think of the family.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: So and yes, maybe the FBI was just being super
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: duper thorough okay, which I do appreciate in checking out
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: this tip and finding that man living in Europe, because,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: like I said, Aton's body was never found. But it
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: also kind of implies to me that maybe the FBI
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: still considered the Aton Pates case still open.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's interesting.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Now, before we get into all the courtroom arguments in drama,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I just want to revisit our maybe least favorite elected
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: district attorney. Favorite depends on who you talk to. Sivance
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Junior the one who reopened a TONS case. Okay, after
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: he took office in January twenty ten, there were several
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: instances that kind of blew up in his face and
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: just a little bit mud everywhere.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Just a little bit.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: So.
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: One instance in particular happened in twenty eleven, the year
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: before Pedro Hernandez was arrested. Now, he and his chief
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: assistant rushed getting an indictment against Dominique strauss Khan, the
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: former chief of the International Monetary Fund and a candidate
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: in the twenty twelve French presidential election. They got him
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: on sexual assault and attempted rape charges. Oh that is
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: a big fish trying to catch there.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. Hold on, guys, my computer just decided
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: to do something very interesting and I don't know why
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: it did that, but it's okay.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah what.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, I totally lost my place. But it all ended
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: up being an embarrassment to the DA's office. The hotel
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: maid who was the accuser turned out to not be
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: very credible. Okay. A few months after stress Comm's arrest,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Vance dropped all charges against him and put out a
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: public statement explaining that he dropped them because our job
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: is to seek justice. Not convictions at any cost.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Let's just keep that quote in the back of our
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: minds for the next two hours. Okay, just remember that.
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: We're not going to go into all the details of
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that specific case, but I will say it was pretty
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: interesting from what I read, and it's it's really too
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: complex to get into tonight, so feel free to look
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: it up for yourself and come to your own conclusions
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: about it. But it was very I went down the
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: rabbit hole and it was very interesting.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you for going down the rabbit hole for us.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: But also important for you guys to know is that
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: DA Vance and Police Commissioner Kelly served together on a
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: task force about legally requiring the recording of interrogations and confessions. Okay,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: they both endorse the overall ideal, but what concerned about
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the financial cost of requiring the police or the prosecutor's
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: office to tape every single interrogation.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, fair, I guess, but I mean, come on,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: but just remember those two together were like, we should
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: definitely record things, we should probably do that.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: And let's just remember that when they questioned a certain person,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: the equipment was already there, so the financial costs had
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: already been handled.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, isn't that? Is that interesting? Now, just four
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: months after after Pedro Hernandez's arrest and mostly not recorded interrogations,
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Police Commissioner Kelly spoke at the Carnegie Council and it
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: was there that he proclaimed that he would begin implementing
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: mandatory taping as a way to regain the public's confidence
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: and trust in the integrity of prosecutions. Oh oh, fancy
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: that four months after the biggest case. Okay, interesting, Okay.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Now we also got to say, at the same time,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: former Governor Andrew Kumo announced he was authorizing a significant
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: out amount of money to this cause.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then da Vance then said, quote recording police interrogation.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Interrogation in the most serious criminal cases is an extremely
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: valuable tool for law enforcement. By allowing prosecutors to know
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: exactly what the defendants say during interrogations, video recordings help
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: us to convict the guilty and better evaluate claims of
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: involuntary confessions. Oh. So it seems like these people who
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: are in charge to understand the severity of situations like that,
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: And remember, they don't want to get justice set at
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: any cost. That's right, not how they do things, you guys, No, no,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: not at all, even if it was their campaign promise. Right. Anyway,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the Moscato's kicking in, y'all, we're not even that exciting.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: Why don't we just say, talking out of both sides
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: of their mouth.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, Now, let's get into some pre trial shenanigans. Now,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Harvey Fishbein, Pedro's attorney, was zealously fighting for his client
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: in court like any good public defender would do. I mean, yes,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: But guys, generally prosecutors do not have to disclose grand
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: jury testimony until shortly before trial. But Fishbain said that
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: this was a very special case. Fish Spain was asking
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: the judge to force the prosecution to disclose exactly what,
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: if any, corroborating evidence they presented to the grand jury,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: including what he called inconsistent and unreliable witness statements. In
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: other words, he needed the good goods.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he goes down to say, quote, as a
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: matter of law, he wrote in one filing, a person
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: may not be convicted of any offense solely upon evidence
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: of a commission or admission made by him, without additional
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: proof that the offense charge has been committed. End quote.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, in a separate filing, Fishpain called out the
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: prosecution's inability to produce additional evidence. He pointed out the
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: numerous dead ends they provided, such as searching Pedro's computers,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: personal papers, and polygraph guys, none of which implicated Pedro
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: in any way. Remember, investigators had dug up the basement
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: of the bodega as well, and guys, there was nothing there.
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: Nothing now prosecution of course, right for prosecution, of course,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: So there was no additional evidence, and refused to turn
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: over anything about the grand jury. They also said that
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: under New York law, very little evidence is needed to
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: satisfy the coroboration requirement. Why have they been so cagey
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: for you know it? It's not a good look.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: It's not a good look now. In fact, wrote Joan
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: Lucy or Bone, the lead prosecutor assigned to the case,
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: the only corroboration needed was to establish so that a
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: crime in fact had happened.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Can you do, Joan?
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: To meet that standard, prosecutor simply offered a well known narrative.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: Aton Pates left for the school bus, stopped one morning
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy nine, and never came back.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: That's all that you need.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: That's all you need.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: That's it. That's enough to satisfy them in New York.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Apparently allegedly, I don't know, I called bullshit on all this.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, on that argument. The judge, of course ruled
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: in the prosecution's favor. Okay, fine, we're not lawyers. Okay,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: we're not, but I don't know. It stinks. The smell
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: is strong and it's stinking.
• 23:19
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: The biggest hurdle for fish Being, of course, was Pedro's confession.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: His main goal was to get it thrown out, because
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: without that, the prosecution really had very little to go on,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: if anything really.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Now, But we also have to stop and think. By
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: not taping the first seven hours of Patro's confession, it
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: was impossible to say whether Pedro had ever asked for
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: a lawyer or how getting this confession went down.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, In regards to the it all should have been
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: taped argument, the prosecution was basically like, so, this is
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: clearly a New York matter, and we didn't have to
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: honor the mandatory recording law that New Jersey has, So
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: that that's just their stance. We don't have to doesn't
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: apply to us too bad. Now in regards to Pedro,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: as her Miranda wrights. They also said since Pedro came
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: to the prosecutor's office voluntarily, he wasn't technically in custody, which.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Excuse me at like that is shadiest shit, And did
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: anyone to help Pedro? He was free to get up
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: and leave whenever he wanted.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: They drove his ass.
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: I know.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Who, Why would he have thought he could just get
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: up and leave.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't have no, not when you're in the back
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: of the cops they take you to the place like no,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but no no now.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Hearing regarding Pedro's confessions was held over two days in
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: September twenty fourteen. Both Stan and Julie Pets appeared, though
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: Julie would later leave the room when Pedro's confession played.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: And guys, I just have to tell y'all my heart
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: hurt for these parents. Having to listen to a confession,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: whether it's real or not, has got to be gut
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: wrenching and just ripped her.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: Soul out absolutely. And by the way, I just want
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: to make it perfectly clear, I am in no way
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: shape or for I'm angry with the paids Oh god
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: it all. I don't blame them for feeling how they feel,
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: trusting what they want to feel, like, oh, I have,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: but I have problems with a whole lot of other
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: people agree. Just want to make that clear, like I
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: do not feel that way now. Pedro's defense attorney Fish Being,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: opened the hearing by stating that he intended to make
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: clear the confession's details in no way matched the accepted
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: facts of the case, and he has a lot of points,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: and some of his points.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: Were Pedro was the only person interviewed who placed Aton
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: outside the bodega that morning. Pedro's claimed that he tossed
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: Aton's backpack behind the freezer in the basement. Guys, doesn't
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: check out, since the entirety of the bodega had been
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: searched at least four times in the days following Aton's disappearance.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, come on, and he doesn't remember there ever
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: being a large police presence for several days. Wild yeah, Now,
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Pedro said he put Aton, still alive, in a trash bag,
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: into a box that was no bigger than the length
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: of his own arms and no more than two feet high.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Again, we're not good at math, but the math ain't
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: math in yeah, ainy mathon doesn't make any sense it's crazy. Now.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: He also there's some more points, guys. If that's not
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: meeting facts, no, don't worry, there's some more. The spot
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: on the street that Pedro told he told police he
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: placed the box that supposedly held Aton's body was actually
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: a very busy bakery at the time, so that doesn't
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: seem likely. He also provided no reason for killing Aton,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: and like, okay, they don't always give reasons, Okay, but
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like we would have gotten one if that
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: was the case. You know, in chorus confessions. Guess what's
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: really hard to get reasons because they didn't do it. Now.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: Pedro also never discussed the case with his coworkers, two
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: of whom were close relatives that he lived with. Now,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: none of this makes any sense to me.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I mean there were police everywhere. We know that for
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: a fact. So and I again, if you didn't catch
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: part two, this guy again has serious He doesn't live
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: in reality a lot of the time. Yeah.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: So, and let's not forget during those statements, he was
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: also under the influence of heavy medical narcotics that were
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: it just it smells really bad, guys.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, even his own lawyer said he's wrong
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: all the time. He's inconsistent, and he is a terrible historian,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: because yeah, yeah, I wouldn't expect this guy to be
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: accurate about the weather outside, to be quite honest, Yeah,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I mean you would be look.
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: For yourself what world he's living in in the moment, right.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: And that's not I mean, that's just the reality of it,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Now, there is a point in one of the recordings
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: where Pedro is sobbing and the detectives in the room
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: bring up his religious faith as a reason for him
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: to come clean about what he did. One of them
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: even goes as far as saying that strength, that's the
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: strength of the Lord.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: O growth really gross. Now, Fishman argues that the behavior
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: of the detectives is manipulative, yes, and that what we're
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: actually seeing is the consequence of what can happen when
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: a mentally ill man is interrogated for hours, almost twenty
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: four hours to be specific. I mean, I wouldn't make it,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I can tell you that, right, Okay.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't make it. And I'm not suffering the same
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: mental illness he is. And I'm not under the influence
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: of a fedel patch. Yeah, and fucking forget about that
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: after twenty four hours, I don't even know now the
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: prosecution was all like, Actually, Pedro's raw emotions are evident
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: of his authentic guilt, a logical and natural consequence of painful, shameful, unburdening,
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: and the detectives only brought up his faith to get
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the truth of what had happened.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yes, oh yeah, I just made though too, Joe,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: watch a face girl. Now. The confessions and the legality
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: of them ended up being taken to the New York
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court, who denied the motion to suppress them, saying
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: that Pedro did have the mental capacity to waive his
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: rights to have an attorney present and understood that he
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: had the right to remain silent.
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: I mean, how can a judge make that decision if
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: he wasn't in the room and there's no video typing.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, Zara is very low apparently so now.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: In his written opinion, Judge Wilie said that Hernandez's performance
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: on psychological tests, along with evidence of his actual waiver
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: of his rights and his basic ability to make his
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: way in the world over a period of almost forty years,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: led the court to conclude that he was capable of
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: appreciating the nature of his rights he was giving up
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: when he spoke to the police and assistant district attorney. Really,
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: twenty four hours of this kind of stuff, and you think, I.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Mean let alone again, I mean, no offense. But somebody
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: with an IQ of that does not understand the complications
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: or the consequences. It's I mean, regular people, don't They
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: do it every freaking day, you know, like you expect
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: him to actually understand that complex kind like, get out
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: of here, Get out of here now, his lawyer goes.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Pedro's lawyer goes on to say, this decision doesn't go
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: to the reliability of the facts. It's about whether they're
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: legally admissible. With that, both sides began rigorously preparing for
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: the trial that was just two months away. By the way, Justine,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: do you still live in New York? Just carious, just
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: curious if you still live there. I know you're from there.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: Just curious, just wondering somebody might have to show up
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: to court in a couple of months. Yes.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Now, while we could go into the psychology of juries
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: for hours, we won't.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, we don't have time for that.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: But I do want to briefly talk about juries and confessions,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: particularly false ones. Guys, there have been several studies that
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: have used mock juries that have clearly demonstrated that confessions
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: carry an extraordinary weight, even over eyewitnesses and character testimony.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: Let that sink in, guys.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's another reason why I wanted to bring
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: this up, and that's because we watch trials a lot
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: of time on couch court with Lama, and it's always
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: remembered to keep this in the back of your mind
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: constantly when you hear things. So that's another reason why
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: we're talking about it. Two Birds, one stone. Now, there
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: are some very fascinating and fascinating insights that came from
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: that two thy and ten study, one of them being
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: that jurors believe they can better judge a confession's truthfulness
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: if it has been videotaped as opposed to audio taped
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: or written out. I'm not saying it makes sense, but
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: that's just humans, right, That's just how we are. Not
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: everything we do makes a lot of sense. Now, another
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: point is that forty percent of jurors interviewed were confident
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: they could determine whether a videotaped confession was truthful. Okay, no,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: that's no. Sorry, just admit you don't know. It's fine,
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: It's fine. Now. Jurors were more likely to regard a
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: videotaped confession as truthful if the tape involved only the accused,
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: which is very interesting. They were less inclined to accept
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: the confession when the tapes included the accused interrogators, which
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: is very interesting. That is very interesting. Now.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: The SETI also showed that jurors tended to believe that
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: police officials were better equipped to evaluate confessions than ordinary citizens,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: even though a two thousand and five SETI showed police
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: actually performed less well then college students and a led
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: detection experiment. I find that interesting, right.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: I mean I only find it a little in surprise.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: But I will go into my rant about that now.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: The four hundred and sixty one mock jurors used in
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: the study said there was a better than fifty to
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: fifty chance that a jury would convict a suspect who
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: falsely confessed to a murder even when there was no
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: other evidence that he or she was guilty.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: That should scare the shit out of everybody.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Exactly what the actual fuck? That should scare you? Yeah,
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: if there is no evidence and the person's confession doesn't
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: even match the investigator. That should scare all of you. Now,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: in another one, it says and at least one case,
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: prosecutors chose to believe a confession even when the accused
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: seemed categorically cleared by DNA evidence. Yeah, yep, So basically
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: I'm going to trust your word not science.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, prosecutors don't look to like to look
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: like dumbasses either, because if they're wrong, that's what happens.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Like that, they're there to uphold the law as they
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: should be, do what's right, not oh zeng your own.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, Now, I just want to be clear. There are
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: very good prosecutors out there, but then there's sumbags. Scumbags
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: so the same. They'll do anything close the case. But anyway,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: so you guys, that's just some fun facts to help
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: you sleep tonight. It's not great. So with that, let's
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: get into the trial now. Pedro Hernandez's trial began on
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: January thirtieth, twenty fifteen, which was expected to l two
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: to three months. That's double a Karen retrial, you guys,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: like that is a long act? Can you imagine? Oh
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: my gosh, I've watched trials that long. It is daunting
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: on everybody. That's very long trial. That is a very
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: long trial for something that has no physical evidence.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: And it's crazy. And guys, for this trial, we're obviously
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: we're not going to be able to go over each
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: and every witness and every piece of evidence because it
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: was two to three months, guys, so we are just
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: going to hit some of the key parts.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Just man, I would love to talk about this for
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: like ten hours. We can't later at a different time.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: We can later, but tonight is not the night now.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: In her opening statement, Manhattan's Assistant District Attorney Joan ill Ello,
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: I can never It's just say Joan. Let's just call
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: her Joan. Okay, yellow Z or bond. There we go.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: We tried it. I said it good for a while,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: but no, we're done. Joan began asking the jury to
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: imagine the New York moment in which Aton Pates went missing. Atari,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: she said, was the video game of choice. In nineteen
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: seventy nine, there were only five television channels, and parents
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: had to put up with the daily squabbles of their
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: children over what to watch because quote, there was no TiVo.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: I don't have TiVo still exists now to be honest,
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: ten years later, but.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Whatever, I sick say, I think we had VCRs before
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: we had TiVo.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, no, she's saying in the year twenty fifteen
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: at the trial.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Did we even have TiVo?
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: Then? Yeah? I guess so I never had TiVo. I didn't, now, guys.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: So ho was an area where hippies, not hipsters, strolled
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: the streets. Okay, New York, she said, was a city
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: that looked more like a small town than a metropolis.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: That you knew your neighbors and they knew you.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: She said that Aton was rather small for his age
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: and that he was towered over by all of his friends,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: but despite his petit nature, he had big dreams. He
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: was known for his infectious smile and bright eyes, noting
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: that when he grew up he wanted to be a
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: real construction guy. She said Aton was a tiny man
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: with a big heart.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: He is, Yes, he's just so cute.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Look, I think he's wearing Bigfoot on his shirt. Is
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: that Bigfoot? I feel like it is.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: It does look like Bigfoot.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Or a gorilla. Maybe it's King Kong. I don't know,
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: but I.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Don't know he's just adorable. The little flip of hair
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: on the side, it's just yeah. Now, this was Aton's
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: first day as a big boy, guys, first day he
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: was able to take himself to the bus stop into
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: the all important bodega. To him, it was the best day.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: It turned out to be the worst day. Now, I'm
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: going to try not to get sad with this, his
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: mom said. His beautiful little life was snuffed out the
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: very day he achieved that childhood freedom in nineteen seventy nine,
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: calling the case a crime that changed the face of
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: the city forever, a cautionary tale, a defining moment, a
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: loss of innocence. And it wasn't his mom who said
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: that I'm sorry.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: It was the prosecutor. I know.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure she heard it, just the words, just
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: as a mom. I can just my whole heart. I'm sorry, I'm.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: Just like.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Of course. Now. Lucy Orbon told the jury that Pedro
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Hernandez was working in the bodega at the time, stocking
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: shelves and carrying heavy crates of soda in beer up
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: to the shop from the basement below. He was a quiet,
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: observant person who did not have many friends, an odd
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: person a loner. She said, Okay, are.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: We trying to shade him, because there's nothing wrong with
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: being that way. I mean, I just want to go
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: on record and say that does not automatically make you suspicious. No. Sorry,
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: I am struggling since my office isn't completely set up
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: on finding my comfy spot now. According to her, Pedro
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: was the only person in the shop at the time
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: that Aton came into it, and he asked the boy
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: if he wanted a soda, and when Aton readily agreed,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Pedro led him down fourteen stairs into the basement, and
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: that's when Hernandez choked him to death, placing the body
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: in a black bag and then into a box, which
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: he carried on his shoulders one block to Thompson Street,
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: where he left it amongst the garbage.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Sense that's that's a long ass and carry.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, yeah, fucking to going to that.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've had a five year old. Five year
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: olds are heavy, okay, they are.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: They are Okay.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: While Pedro never gave a motive to anyone, a Lucy
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Orban argued that sexual gratification was his motive, which is
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: fucking bullshit. Joan, all right, I'm gonna call you out
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: right now in your opening statement, it's fucking bullshit and
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: you know it, Okay, Now, even though he vehemently denied
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: it in his confessions, she had no reason to say
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: that or bring it up. By the way, there's no
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: proof of anything. Just want guys.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: The Moscato's kicking in it is that.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I haven't looked at this in you know, a couple
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: of days, and I'm like, oh, yeah, that's right. I
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: remember why I was so pissed. Now. She goes on
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: to say, quote, why would the defendant do this? Although
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: you can probably imagine that in reality that choking was
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: not the first thing that happened to Aton, it was
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: the second. He literally never said that. Joan, you're making
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: that it's more salacious. I'm more so. You're not gonna
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: this is your opening statement. You're gonna say nothing for
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: the rest to try about it. I don't like Joan
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: in case y'all don't know, I don't like her.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Okay. Sorry, I had to hold back some comments while
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: you're reading, and now it made me sneeze because I'm sorry.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: He never said that anywhere. No, she basic, I mean,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: I know, opening statements do not they're not fact. It's
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: but that is salacious, is shit, and that is like
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: a clickbait headline, and today it is.
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: And I'm sorry, but as a pro prosecutor, you should
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: fucking know better, Joan agreed. Disapointing.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: Why would you say that if there's no proof? Why
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: put that thought in the parents?
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Hey? Exactly? Anyway, Anyway, Now she goes on to tell
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: you through opening statements, you.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Will see and hear his chilling confessions. What you will
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: see is someone who very keenly controls the information that
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: he puts out. Lucy or Bond close up her opening
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: by telling the jury that for three decades the Pate's
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: family and many others had been looking for Aton. Their
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: search ends here.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: She said, you guys, it's gonna be a long night.
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: What is she smoking?
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but I don't like Joan in case,
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I don't like Joan either, hm mmmmmm. Shady. You only
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: lie when you don't have a good case, Joan now.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: In his opening statements, Defense attorney Harvey fish Being urged
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: the jury not to be tempted by the numerous alleged
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: confessions made by Pedro into assuming his gift. Don't let
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: the passage of time allow you to say, uh, I
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: will accept what is being said today as what actually happened.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: Keep this in context, or this is not going to
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: be a fair trial. Also, before we move on back
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: to Joan real quick, when she's like, well he's a mastermind.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: Now with that IQ you think he's some fucking genius mastermind,
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: that's uh huh. Get out of here. I mean, get
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: out of here, Joan.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: And look at his writings. I'm not saying he's illiterate,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: but he can't spell no.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: But he does have nice penmanship. I will say that
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: does considerably.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: But yeah, lady in Gray, I agree with you about
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: questioning the judge. I cannot believe the judge did not
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: say something. I don't know if they can, we would
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: have to ask lama judge. But to me, I don't
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: think that's acceptable.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's missy now, it is now.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Harvey goes on to say that Pedro had confessed to
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: act that could not possibly have happened or were improbable.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: He's the only witness against himself. Guys, if that a
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: reasonable doubt, please somebody explained to me what reasonable doubt is.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: Maybe, I mean it's good in there for me. I
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: don't really pay confessions much mind, to be honest, especially
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: from people who have these issues. All right, I'm not
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: listening to somebody standing on the corner telling me the
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: end of days is coming and ranting about God because
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: they're having an episode.
• 47:08
  Speaker 6: Why would I believe them in a confession about a case.
• 47:12
  Speaker 6: Why makeap makes sense? Make it makes sense? I kep, Well,
• 47:18
  Speaker 6: don't worry.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: His lawyer. Call up Joe get it either, Call up
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Joan if she could come on the show. Now. Guess what.
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: His lawyer doesn't quite get it either. He says, why
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: should he say such things? He's inconsistent and unreliable, not
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: because he's a calculating, planning individual, as the prose computer
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: would have you believe, but because of his mental status
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: that makes him inconsistent and unreliable. I mean, the only
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: person making sense in this whole thing.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, if you didn't see episode two or listen
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: to it, go back, because you will hear some of it.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, Pedro was there were people with Pedro that
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: were not there. I mean, so he said that Pedro's
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: confession is fiction dreamed up by a mentally ill man
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: with a low IQ and a history of hallucinations, who
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: is under the influence a finnel and fueled by over
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: six hours of police questioning before he was read his rights. Yeah,
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: hm and that. After confessing, Hernandez told a defense psychologist
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: his memory of the killing feels like a dream and
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: he wasn't sure if it had really happened. He went
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: on to say, Pedro Hernandez cannot distinguish between what is
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: real and what is not. This is why New York
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: did not want this video taped.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, I mean certainly seems suspicious. I don't
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: want to sell your fried chicken box.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: What do I hear elbow feet?
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: You do hear an elbow feet? Yes? I asked him
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: to heat the oven up to make me some shrimp,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: cut some drink shrimp.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: What you guys and shrimp?
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: We love shrimp. Okay, this is a shrimp love and house.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: We love all the shrimp, bread and shrimp, fried shrimp, shrimps.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: I these pars still smells shrimpy.
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: Then, no, it does not smell his box on it. No,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: he has fried chicken, which does not good. But I
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: don't like fried chicken, so I just like smelling it.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: What do you not like about fried chickens.
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: It's like fried chicken. It's a whole thing I don't want.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: I like fried chicken. I just can't eat it on
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: the bone. I have to peel it off the bone.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: I don't like any of it. I don't like that.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: I'm freaking little of the smooth.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: What about we mustard on it?
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: No, why would you say these things? It's my mom
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: messaging you or something. Right now?
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: What are you saying, Terry, Hey, I'm trying to win
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: brownie points with her so I can get a whole
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: cheesecake to myself.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: All right, back to our frustration here. I don't even
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: know now. He told jurors that all I'm sorry, let
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: me start over again. He told jurors all about Jose Ramos.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: Remember that, oh fucker, We're gonna call him that all
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: night because he sucks. It's a fact now, that is
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: who he said is really the man responsible for the
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: disappearance and murder of Aton, telling them that when Ramos
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: was shown a picture of Aton, he had said he
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: was ninety nine percent sure that was a boy. But
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: apparently the state's not believing that because that makes too
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: much sense. So let's listen to the crazy guy.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's easier to take down the crazy guy.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: Let's just be honest, path of least resistance, they thought.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: Now at this point, Fishmain paused in front of the
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: jury and said, if you believe this story, then a
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: Ton Pates certainly wasn't on the corner when my client
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: says he saw him. This is just another sad twist
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: and a tragic saga train time.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Sorry and agreed, that's exactly what this is now. He
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: also urged the jurors to focus on what he called
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: a lack of evidence against his client. There is no evidence,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: there's nobody, there's no crime scene. You will hear, there's
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: no DNA, there were no fingerprints. Are there eyewitnesses that
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: could connect Pedro Hernandez to the disappearance of Aton Pates
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: and guys.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: Let's also remember, if you try to verify Pedro's confession,
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: it can't be verified. There was no backpack in the Bodeka.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I'd bed. That's the whole thing that I'm like, there's
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: no DNA, but you can't even verify the confession because
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: it didn't happen.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Nope, that's our opinion, I guess, just my opinion. Joan.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, Joan needs to go be with Joan Crawford
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: and mommy dearest. So on the first day of testimony,
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: Julie Pates, Aton's mother, now seventy two, took the stand.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: She told the jury how there was an incident the
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: night before Aton's disappearance that caused her to fly into
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: a panic when Aton wandered off their block. Can I
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: just say real quick next night, Amy, Besides Aton being
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: a victim, Stan and Julie were traumatized over and over
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: and over.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, And that's another thing that disgusts me about this,
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: to rip open those wounds on this fucking bullshit. Shame
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: shame on these people, not the page, shame on everybody else. Yeah,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: they don't want to be fucking heroes. Might you, Joan,
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: talk about you?
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: Joan.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: You know, she's not the one who officially rolled the charges.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: There were several others.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: But she went with it.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: She could have stopped it, exactly. She didn't need to
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: say that bullshit, she said, exactly.
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: I'm like, she doesn't get I'm sorry you didn't do
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: the charging, but you went with it. It's a relay
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: you took running and you got the thing passed to you.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: You could have just said, it's kind of like felonious murder,
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: like you don't need to be the one to shoot
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: the gun necessarily, but like you're still you're still responsible
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: for this. Agreed. But anyway, we are biased as shit
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: about these kids.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: You know, I am willing to go on record and
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: say I have biased as shit.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, I did my research, Okay, I've earned my biases
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: in this, and I.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: Listened to both sides, and I tried to look at
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: I even went down the rabbit hole of fake confessions
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: and went down a whole psycho. Yeah. So Joan didn't do.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: That, No, no, she said. She left Aton playing outside
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: they're so ho loft with a downstairs neighbor on the
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: evening of May twenty fourth, nineteen seventy nine. While she
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: briefly went inside. Quote, when I went back onto the
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: fire escape to see how they were doing, Aton was gone.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: He was nowhere in sight.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: She said, Oh, every parent has experienced something like that,
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: whether it's five minutes in a grocery store. Oh, lady,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: and Gray, you're right his siblings as well, now, she says.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: She then raced downstairs and started searching for her son.
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: I went around the corner heading north, my heart pounding.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: He was nowhere in sight. I tried going around the
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: block in the other direction, still no Aton. I was
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: getting pretty panicky at this point in time.
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: Ultimately, he came back around the corner from the west,
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: and I, of course, being the typical calm mother, I
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: screamed and yelled at him and chastised him severely for
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: almost giving me a heart attack. She said. Aton was
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: quite upset by the scolding, which she called certainly overkill,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: especially for a child like Aton who never needed discipline
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: because he was so sensitive and eager to please. Oh, I, I'm.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Like, I, you did nothing wrong. No, you did nothing wrong.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think the majority of moms would have reacted
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: any different.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: I mean that's your instinct, right, I.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: Mean yeah, I would be like.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah, well, I think too. A lot of
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: people really gave her a lot of shit oh and
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: blamed her for a lot of things. And I never
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: thought that was fair. It was not fair at all,
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm sorry. I get it.
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: It could happen to any single mother in the world.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: That can happen.
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: So now, Julie did choke up and had to wipe
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: away tears as she told of being ostracized when she
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: would venture out with her other son and daughter after
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: Aton's disappearance.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: Shame on you people in New York. Yep, you're going
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: in the jone pile. Whoever she's talking about. Next, you're
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: going in that pile.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I'm going to get emotional. I was on
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: the street with them, going around, trying to play like
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: we used to do, and a group of women came
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: up to me and said, if I could laugh so
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: soon after my son's death, obviously I had been responsible
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: for the murder. That happens more than once. Guys, that
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: is bullshit. And she still had other children. She had
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: to still try to fake it until she could make
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: it and hold it together for them, for them, So
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: fucking anyone who said that to her, because I am
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: here to tell you you deserve to go. Just say
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: a confession, Penance, you're the problem.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. That is terrible. That is Fuck those bitches,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: whoever they are.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now. She then told the jurors about the fateful
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: moment Aton left home for the last time that was
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: just as heartbreaking to her. Thirty five years later, she
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: lives with this guys every moment of her life.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: How could she not? How could she not?
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: Now?
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: She said, Aton had been insisting he was big enough
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: to go off by himself like his big sister, and
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: was clutching a dollar he earned doing Quote some very
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: easy non work for a local carpenter. I mean, I
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: have some dollars.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: In nineteen seventy nine.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: Is from the carmenter of off Neil Miller.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Like if the tooth Fairy only brings twenty five cents,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: why are you getting a dollar?
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Just my thoughts, But my problems was off Meal, not her.
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: So she goes on to say, quote, when he was ready,
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I walked Adon down the stairs on to the sidewalk.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: It was kind of a damp and missy morning. I
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: told him to go straight to the bodega and get
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: his drink quickly so he didn't miss the bus. It
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: was about ten minutes to eight when we're finally down
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: at the sidewalk, and I reminded him to come directly
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: home from school because we were going away for the
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: weekend with the Altman family. He was wearing a blue
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: corduroy jacket and airline pilot cap. The bag and the sneakers.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: I don't remember which that was the last time I
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: saw him. I watched him walk one block away, heading west,
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: approaching Worcester Street, and I turned around and went back upstairs,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: and it was the last time I ever saw him.
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: So Sammy Unshine share that I panic so bad that
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: I was screaming my little names in my front yard.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: Who's playing hide and seek? And found a new hiding
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: spot in our home?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: At three years old.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: It was all of two minutes, pure torture.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's any parents worst nightmare, I know.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: For me, Yeah, it is. Now.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: She wanted to say that Aton was totally outgoing and
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: trusting of everyone, totally non judgmental about people, like most
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: five year olds. They haven't, you know, learned that. But
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: at the same time, he was very fearful of being
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: lost or left alone by himself. Julie said, the bodega
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: where Pedro Hernandez worked was a safe haven for kids.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, now we're going to start calling some more witnesses, guys,
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: so buckle up now. On February third, twenty fifteen, the
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: prosecution called sixty nine year old Juan Santana to the stand,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: covering his face there. He was the brother in law
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: of Pedro Hernandez and the man who managed the bodego
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: where Pedro worked when Aton disappeared. One of the most
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: important witnesses in my book book.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: I have so many questions about Santana. I'm sorry, I
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: I okay now. Santana's, speaking through a Spanish interpreter, denied
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: having told investigators that Pedro's last day of work was
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine. He testified he could
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: not remember when Hernandez had started working at the bodega,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: and or how long he had worked there, or the
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: deity left all of a sudden.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: You can't remember shit. I mean it was in fairness though,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: if this is thirty years, thirty years just saying, I'm
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: just saying now. After a series of invasive and cont
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: contradictory answers from Santana, Lucy Orban asked the judge to
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: declare Santana a hostile witness. Love that for you, Joan,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: I love that for you because it's your witness. She
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: then went on to read several statements that he made
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: to investigators, stating that Pedro's last day of work at
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: the bodega was the same day Aton vanished.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: Okay, my question, sir, is what day did Hernandez leave
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: to move back to Camden, New Jersey, She asked Santana,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: who sarcastically replied, I don't remember. Whoever remembers what they
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: had for lunch two weeks ago should raise their hand.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I'll just say it. I I can't
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: tell you anything that happened thirty years ago.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: On this day, thirty years ago. If I stop and
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: think about it, I could and just see y'all. No,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know if y'all are hearing the little pings.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Monkey Butt had her first volleyball game tonight.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: She made the volleyball team, and.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: I my daughter in love is just blowing me up
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: with videos and I'm like, it's a life stream.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: My mac A just keeps popping up like Lily don't
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: hear the dings. But finally you let her know. Lama
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: is so proud of it. Don't let her launch this
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: show because I cuss a lot in this one, but you, oh,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: I already super proud of her, and that's anodding right
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: for tonight. But I will let her know that. And
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: just on the side note, cappen.
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 2: You're right. If you aren't following the bodega cad account online,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: you really need to reconsider your social media followings.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know what that means.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: And somebody, well, you're not on social media, so maybe
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: a YouTube. No I followed them. I think it's on
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: the top. Oh, but I will record screen, record a
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: video and post it because it's adorable.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: That's amazing. Now back to Santana here. So he goes
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: on to say he also said the basement entrance was
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: routinely kept locked and that it was unlikely Hernandez could
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: have gained access. You cannot remember whether the police had
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: searched the bodega the first night of the boys disappearance,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: perhaps because he customarily left the store in the early evening.
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: Look at that, that's un as creepy, creepy.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: I'm like, that is duel?
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: Is creepy?
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: Shit?
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: They do? They do.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: Also in New York, I hear that there is a
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: cafe where you can go and have coffee and a
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: spot of tea and some sandwiches, and they have cats
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: and you can just love on the cats.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: We have a cat cafe here, And you didn't take
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: me I'm allergic to.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: Cats, and that's my problem.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: How well, I wasn't taking you like what you now.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: Guys, buckle up because during cross examination, he remembered police
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: searching the bodega all of a sudden, including the basement.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: Days later. Now, as soon as the jurors were dismissed
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: for the day, Fishmane jumped up and demanded a mistrial,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: arguing that Santana was set up on the stand. I mean,
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: think about it, but Judge Wiley was Wiley and denied
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: this motion.
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: Sulley is the worst. She just s crashed at the
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: door to go side. So because my brother's outside, right,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: he opens the door, she just walks back into the kitchen.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: It's just being nosy. I guess.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 2: I'm like she's got fomo mama.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: No, I didn't include it here, but I think we
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: talked about it in one of the other episodes that
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: it like it was known that like nobody was allowed
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: in the basement.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Right, it was at all we talked about it. Yeah,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: you had to have a key. They even had an
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: extra gate or something that so.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: You couldn't get in.
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: So it is very likely.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: The maedro at a key that he had a key. No,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think he did exactly. So how oh, I'm sorry,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: I haven't misheard what you said. Yeah, I was like, no,
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: he definitely did not. You ain't give him some eighteen
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: year old you know, he's the word.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: I'm going to just tell you, if I had to
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: work downstairs and go into that basement, I would quit my.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: Job right now. Next up on the witness stand is
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: Raymond Rodriguez, who is now seventy five at the time
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: of this trial. He took the stand now he was
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: a one time church friend of Pedro's, and said that
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: in the summer of nineteen seventy nine, just months after
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: Aton's disappearance, he and Pedro were walking on a farm
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: at a church retreat in New Jersey when Pedro confessed
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: to him that he lured the child into his family's
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: Soho badega and then stabbed him to death with a broomstick,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: which okay doesn't check out real, okay, okay?
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Now said he said that Pedro said, every day I
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: see the kids walking by, and I took one of
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: these kids to go to the basement and offered him
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: a soda. I took a stick and shove him a lot,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: and this is what Ramon said Pedro told him. Is
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: he also, excuse me, acted out th resting a sharp
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: object up and down. Why would you need to enact this?
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: He has something in his heart he had to get out.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did he tell you he did something else to
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: the boy asked a loozy orban. It came to my
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: mind he may have abused the kid then got rid
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: of him, said Rodriguez, who then said Pedro didn't admit that.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there was an objection to that comments. But now.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Devin's attorney, Fishbain brought up Ramone's conflicting accounts to
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: investigators over the years. Now, I wanted to say, the
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: man is seventy five years old. I am not expecting
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: his mental capacity to be as what it was thirty
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: years ago, but his conflictions are interesting. In June twenty twelve,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: Ramone told investigators that Pedro claimed he'd enticed the boy
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: with candy, then abused him. A few months later, he
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: told authorities that a friend at the retreat told him
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: the details of abuse, not Pedro.
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: So cross this guy off your fucking list.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: Of like, not a good person for a witness, Not credible.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Right, Sammy. Now, when Fish being confronted him about the discrepancies,
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: Roman became uncomfortable and admitted he might have said abuse.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: At some point, I did the very best I could.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: He blurted, there's no reason to kill a kid. There's
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: no reason. I agree. I agree, but no, you are
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: not now on my list of witnesses that don't matter.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: Next, let's just say you're irrelevant to me.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: Sorry, Raymond. Maybe it's telling the truth. But even if
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: he is telling the truth, right, Pedro is eighteen years old,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: we know that he has mental health issues that he
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: doesn't even know that he probably has quite yet, maybe
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: because he was like he did have troubles in school.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: But like the nties, it was not what it is today.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: You know the fact honestly, the fact that I even
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: heard he got a bunch of treatment during this time
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: is how you know how bad it is it was
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: for him. I mean, otherwise it just wasn't available.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: So well, okay, before I get into my next session,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: I just have to say cap'in, I love you, because no, Google,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 2: she did not mean patio conception. Just has to share
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: for you guys what I'm reading on the back end.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Because every now and then I get little comments or
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 2: my son or somebody will say, why are you snickering
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 2: at that place? You shouldn't have been snickering because I'm
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: reading things that say, no, Google, I did not mean
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: Patty of Conception.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: Yes, Capin makes the best titles. First, Like it's like
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: seeing her consciousness in like real time. She's putting stuff together,
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: and it's fantastic.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: It's so great because this stuff is so dark. I mean,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 2: it really helps. But seventy nine year old Motto Concepcion
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: told jurors that Pedro also told him at the New
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: Jersey nineteen seventy nine religious retreat that he had killed
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: a child.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: At the Small Mustache.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 2: Pedro was cried, Yeah, said Pedro was crying. He said
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: that he worked in a budeka here in New York.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: He grabbed a child. He gave him a soda. He
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: took him to the basement, and in the basement he
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: said that he abused him. He said I cut him.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: After I cut him, he said, I put him in
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: a plastic bag and I threw him in the garbage. Now,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: when loser Joan Luzy Orbone asked him why he hadn't
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: called the police when he heard this. Patio said that
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: he thought the man wasn't well as he did the
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: crazy gesture around the side.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: Of his head, so he didn't believe shit that he said,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: and what he did say doesn't make any sense. Essex say, Yeah,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's the first of all, even if he
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: had done this and did stab Aton or whatever, there's
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: no way this guy cleaned up that. SCEAT likes to say,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: how did he clean up the There's no time. There's
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: no time anyway.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: And I don't think he had the wherewithal to know. Yeah,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, guys, they are selling me a story that
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not yet buying.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: No now. Next up was Daisy Riviera, Pedro's ex wife,
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: his old neighbor Mark Pike, and his brother in law
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: Josey Lopez, who all took the stand and recounted confessions
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: that Pedro had told them in the early eighties. Now,
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: we pretty much covered everything that they ended up testing
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: testifying to in part two of the stories, so we're
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: not gonna repeat their testimony. Go watch that and find
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: out what they they had to say about that. And also, uh,
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't matter really. Daisy is gonna.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say, Daisy.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: Is that who he was looking like? And reminded me
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: of because I was starting who is who? Me too?
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: Me too?
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Kavin. Now, for the first time in the trial,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: jurors got to hear Pedro's taped confession with the eighty
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 2: A armand Doris Dante Drews watched the video intently in
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 2: several vigorously scribbled notes.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I asked him if he wanted something to drink,
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 1: a soda or something, and he said yeah. And I
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: told him to come down to the basement with me,
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: and we actually video of that that we're going to listen.
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: To anyone behind me then if they told us were
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 4: on this side. So he was in front of me,
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 4: So when you were in front of me, I grabbed
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 4: him by the neck.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 7: H and I said, choking him. I was nervous. I
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 7: was my little was joking. And what did we let go?
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: Was I just couldn't let's go. It was like something
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 4: I felt like something just took over me and I
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 4: don't know, it was like I felt like some something
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 4: just took over me. And I just choke him. When
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: I was shocking him, he was going and he anyone
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: looked at that, Yeah, and then he wasn't down to
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 4: the floor.
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: No, I never expect that voice either. That's very so.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I know we've heard this thing before, but it always
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: surprises me as well.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: Well, before you go on, I have to ask if
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: you were a juror and you saw this, because you
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 2: know we heard that study earlier, you feel like you
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 2: can determine if somebody's telling the truth from that.
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: From that, not really, I mean now they saw a
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: much longer. They watched the whole thing in the fifty seconds,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: not really, so, I mean I would love to sit
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: and watch the whole the whole thing for sure, But
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: I mean that doesn't it doesn't really do it for me.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: But I am very like particular about even taking things
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: into consideration. So Angie says, can you summarize what he said? Yes,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: Angiecaus goes, what, That's what I'm going to do next.
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: So thank you for bringing us into our nice little segue. Now,
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: he says, when he was in front of me, I
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: grabbed his neck and I started to choke him. I
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: was nervous and his legs were jerking. And that's when
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: he's using the hand around his neck to demonstrate how
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 1: he strangled Aton allegedly.
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: Then he went on to say, when I choked him,
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: I tried to let go, but my body was shaking
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: and jumping at the same time. I wanted to just
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: let him go, but there was something that took over
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: in me, and I squeezed him more and more, and
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: then he went like this, Hernande said, dropping his head
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: to the side as though it had gone limp.
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: Now, although Aton collapsed from the surprise attack, he didn't
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: die and was still gasping for air, Hernandez said, as
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: he mimicked the final utterance of the desperate child. He
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 1: then went on to describe putting PTA's still wriggling body
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 1: into a plastic bag, tying it and then pushing the
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: bagged body into a cardboard box. Makes that make sense.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: He's still live in a box and he carries him
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: for a whole block in the morning in New York City.
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: Even in seventy nine. Yeah, I yeah, so.
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 1: Right now, it makes sense.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: Dir Santi asks, what did you think when you put
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: him in the back? Pedro replied that he would suffocate.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: Dir Santi continued, did you want that? Pedro said at
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: the time, yes, because I was afraid of what I did,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: so I figured that if he'd be alive, he could
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: put me away. He said he'd put the box on
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: his shoulder and carried it a few blocks away from
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: the bodega and dumped it at the entrance.
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: Of a narrow alleyway.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: Right, you must have been thinking about something when you
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: approach this boy. It was just something. It was just
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: like something snapped in me, he answered. Guys, look at
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: this man. He is not a whole cogan, Okay, Captain.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: I had to remind myself when I heard this sound,
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: I'm like, she's born wine, she's not ping, because all
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, I got the feeling that I needed
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: to go to the restroom when I heard it. But
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, even an eighteen year old stout gully, this
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: is excuse the term dead weight in a box just
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 2: up on one shoulder. I don't think it's possible.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. I don't buy it. I
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: don't buy it. And Hernandez told Durasdanti he felt bad
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 1: for what he did, but showed no emotion until he
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: began talking about his abusive alcoholic father. Maybe it's because
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: one of those was real and the other one wasn't good,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: not a professional quote. He used to beat us with
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: the horse's whip, you know, the leather one. And he
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: used to beat us with a belt buckle until we bled,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: he said, weeping and sniffling. I mean, look at that.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: He is capable of real emotions. Yeah, oh goodness, you guys.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, I just have to say, chat is really bringing
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: the game. I'm just gonna say, because we need some
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: of these things now, Simmy ask why would he make
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 2: this up? Simmy, I don't know if you were here earlier.
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: He is mentally challenged. His IQ is what sixty seven
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: or something, It is low, so he is very easily
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: you can suggest things to him. He also, at the
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: time he made these statements, he had a fentanel patch
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: on his shoulder to help with body pain.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: So that's and in twenty twelve, Oh this was twenty twelve.
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Yeah, no, when he this this interview happens,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: it's twenty twelve, so like we all know that's what
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: he was. Well, yeah, but no, but like they were
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: just giving a shoot out to everybody, you know what
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: I mean, Like that's true for all sorts of things.
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: We don't even know how long he had been on
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: that patch for as well.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: And with his mental thing once he got that story
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: in his mind, just oh my gosh. So weeks into
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: this multi month trial, the court was notified that three
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 2: boxes of Aton Pates his investigation material, turned up in
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: a Harlem by the NYPD cleaning out a storage space,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: including one box that both prosecution and defense knowledge might
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 2: include important information about Jose Ramos.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: Always great when this pops up in the middle of
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: a trial. Oh, it's great, it's great.
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 2: Now I just have to ask, why didn't the judge
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: just say, we're going to declare a mistrial.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: It's more complicated than that.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: That is a lot of fucking evidence, it is.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: I'll say it's more complicated than that. I mean, I
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: agree at this point, and he.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: Waited this here, tell us some of the stuff that's
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 2: in the box.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: All right. So some of the stuff that was in
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: the box was a police interview of Jose Ramos, index
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: cards for everyone interviewed in the case, a card for
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: every psychic used in the case, which makes sound like
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: a lot, which is interesting. Okay, we didn't give up
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: after the first few that were wrong, but okay, then
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: they also had alleged sightings of Aton Pates in there.
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 2: Guys. They also had letter to the Pates family that
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: they gave police over the years, including reports of citing
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 2: and notes of condolences, the debris things of an informant
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: in the case mm HM case notes from a detective
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 2: who lived in Jose Ramos's building as a child in
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: years later interviewed tenants who had been Ramos's neighbors. Many
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: people were called seeing Aton Pates in the building with
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: Ramos and his girlfriend Sandy Harmon. If you haven't seen
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: the previous two episodes, you need.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: To go back. You need to know where those people are.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, what's so frustrating.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: It's like you need to go back because I feel
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: like there was also a civil suit.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, where Jose was found liable and responsible for the
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: wrongful death of Aton Pates, but not criminal charges. Now,
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: the discovery of this new possible evidence raise a lot
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: of questions. Would defense call for a mistrial, would witnesses
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: who have already testified need to be recalled, and would
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: new possible witnesses be required to appear. I mean, this
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: is a mess.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: I'm like this just like a circus. Now, in court
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: on watch fourth, our lovely prosecutor Joan Lucy Arbon told
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: the courts that a man contacted them saying he could
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 2: be Aton Pays.
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: She said she show expectives.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: To interview the man and handed the defense team a
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: police report. He had thought in his head that maybe
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: he's Aton. We get calls from people and sometimes people
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: are concerned that they may be Aton Pays.
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine if this trial was streamed, watching it
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 1: like this is a crazy trial.
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: By the way, I have to tell you, if we
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: streamed this trial, I would be an alcoholic at the
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: end of those three months, because.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I would be too. I would be too,
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 1: and I'll be honest. It's say I'm a shamed that
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: it wasn't because it should be now. Next up was
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: Becky Hernandez, Pedro's twenty five year old daughter, took the
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: stand as the defense's first witness. She talked about how
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: her dad was an obsessively overprotective dad. He'd hold my
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 1: hand even when I was fourteen or fifteen old enough
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: to walk across the street by myself. God, I love
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: her Jackets. I'll that's weird.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 2: But she said that he required her to provide two
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: weeks written notice before or he'd even allow her to
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: see friends. And the college graduate wasn't allowed to be
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: home alone until she was twenty, and her father drove
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: her and picked her up from all of her classes.
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: It's weird.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a little over protective. But I have
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: to say, you have a fourteen year old now, don't
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: you want to hold his hand?
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: Sometimes? Yes, I was still hold his hand crossing the street.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, of like go and go. I don't find that weird.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: And I have to tell you, even when I was twenty,
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: my mom's I didn't live at home, I was about
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: to have a child. My mom still didn't want me
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 2: being home alone when my husband worked.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, he's alone, so over protective.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 2: It's a little over protective. But if we look at
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 2: what happened in Pedro's life, exactly been abused. And I
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: mean it.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: Was a very strict religious childhood. So it's actually not.
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: Saying it was okay, But I'm just saying that it's.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Becky is cute.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 2: Becky is so cute, And all I know is that
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: Mama Lama is just sitting there going yep, I should
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: have locked Llama up until she was twina.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: Now, Defense attorney Fishman asked her whether she loved her father. Yes,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: I know he's protective because he loves me, she said tearfully.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: It's the little things that show that he cares, and
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: that's why I love him now.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: She did talk about her dad being a bit of
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: a loner, that he would often talk to himself and
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: he had difficulty breaking from routine. After Pedro confessed to
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: cops in twenty twelve, he admitted the horrific crime to
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: his daughter.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 4: She said.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 1: And cross examination, prosecutor Joan Lusey Orban asked Becky whether
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: she understood that her father's overprotective behavior was abusive, and
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: she replied yes.
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, but your point being relevance, Joan. But that's his
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: own kid. Of course he's gonna be overprotected.
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 2: I'm Mike. I guys, I have a problem with that
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: statement because when you take into account is low iq.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: Nobody is taking in the whole peicture, their picture peakschew.
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 2: They're just taken in little bitty bits and pieces. They're
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: just not seeing the whole picture. And I have a
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: problem with that to call that abuse.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Hi, Kathy.
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: So, defense expert witness doctor Michael First, was one of
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: the first people to talk with Pedro Hernandez after his arrest.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: He said that at first, Pedro didn't say anything about
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 2: seeing hallucinations on the day of Aton's disappearance.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now, okay, there's Michael. There's Michael First. I was
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: waiting for a picture of him because I actually didn't
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: know what he looked like, and I was like, hmmm,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: is this gonna make me anyway? But Pedro would then
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: describe that there were more than a dozen ghoulish faces
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: staring at him as he choked little Aton pat Paige
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 1: to death. Quote, there were fifteen people in the room
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: with him. In addition into elderly men and women dressed
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: in nursing home gowns, there was also two little girls,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: one boy, one man dressed in a suit, and a
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: woman in a pearl necklace with business clothes. Because you
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: know that makes sense?
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: Do you want to know what just popped in my head?
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: This is why I do not look at the visuals
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 2: before we go live.
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: I love this, It's perfect.
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: I love this. I love this. But hearing you say this,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: even though I've read all of it, it makes me
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: wonder if at some point he had been locked up
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 2: in what they call the asane asylums. I know, I
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: don't know what the proper term was back in the days,
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 2: because that's what my mind visions them to be.
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 1: Oh no, I believe he was in and out of them.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: Harvey or.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: The family feud guy, Steve Harvey.
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, Steve Harvey.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, there's a little something for everyone in there.
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: Six.
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a whole lot in there now, she Shu did.
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: When he walked up the stairs carrying the boy in
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: the bag in the box, he said, they all parted
• 1:32:22
  Speaker 2: on the steps to let him pass by. Then they
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: followed him up out of the basement and left him
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 2: at the bodega as he walked.
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 1: Makes sense now. Doctor First had interviewed Pedro for a
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: total of eight hours and just diagnosed him with schiziotypical disorder,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: which he described as a milder version of schizophrenia. It's
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: it's not much better, mildest, still not great. Okay, So
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: to Pedro, the people in the room and the confession
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: were equally real, he testified. Now. Pedro claim also claimed
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: to have superpowers that can detect evil spirits and predict
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: the future. Guys, this doesn't work, This doesn't look great. Okay,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: would you be taking anything this shit or Valo? I
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: have way more sympathy for Pedro than her, and that's her.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: Damn sure.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: I going to just say that Laurie is a whole
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 2: different kind of creak crap mm hmm. Pedro is truly
• 1:33:40
  Speaker 2: suffering mental illness, has a low eye. Let's just thought
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 2: even think about her. Okay, yeah, so he believed. Okay,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: now that we're seeing BORI vallow see, guys, this is
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: where shiny balls pep pep in my own mind? Did
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 2: you see that she's her son a message during crime
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 2: Con because her living son was part of the crime
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: con panel. She sent a message to the guy interviewing
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: him and asked him what he thought, and it was
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: a biblical thing and he said, oh, that's just her
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 2: being her.
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 1: Fuck her.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so now he believed that he has the power
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: to know someone has an evil spirit or good spirit.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 2: Doctor First testified he believes he can see something and
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: that means it will happen in the future. Okay. He
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: also said that Pedro was intensely paranoid. He believes people
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 2: can read his mind and that people are trying to
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 2: get in his head, and he believes he has the power,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: ability and skill to block that from happening.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So totally a reliable narrator for something that happened
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 1: thirty years ago. Yes, sign me up for this fucking
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: guy and get out of here now. The defense played
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: a nineteen eighty two videotape of a police interview with
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: Jose Ramos. That's not Jose, that's Pedro. That's not that's no.
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 1: Noos is a crep. That's that's Pedro.
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: Next as to say, that's patrol.
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Next. Now. In that video, prosecutors questioned him about
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: the disappearance and the numerous photos of children that were
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: plastered across his hideout.
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 2: Like, the number of petals in this episode is disturbing.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: Now. In the grainy black and white video, former Bronx
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: prosecutor Frank Carroll asked, did you know about a Todd? Yes,
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 2: he answers. Susan used to take care of him. Ramos
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: once dated Susan Harrington aka Sandy Harmon, who is an
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: occasional caretaker for the Pats. I know, why do you
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: need two names?
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's very confusing. So I don't know
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: why she has two names. Also, so it's very hard.
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: This is a side note, all right, it is very
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: hard to get a third party culprit defense. Okay, you
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 1: cannot just go into court and blame it on somebody
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 1: else's that's you can't do that, right. You have to
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: file for a third paridy defense. You have to provide
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: sufficient evidence that that person maybe could maybe could to
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: be approved for that. So it's very important in this
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: case that people understand how hard it is to have
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: a third party culporate defense and how solid that has
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: to really be.
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 2: It has to be.
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: So just want to if case you didn't know, now
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: you know, thank you, jo You're welcome. You're welcome. I
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: got a gamble here and everything. I am ready to
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: rule on Joan. Now anyway, where were Yeah, there we go.
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 1: That's Tozy fucking Ramos. Hate that guy. Now remember Stuart
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: graboas right, that guy, the former assistant US attorney who
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: was hell bent on Jose Ramos being the killer. Well
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: he testified for the defense.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: A a federal prosecutor is testifying for the defense. Hy bells,
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 1: hy Bell. Sorry, I had to say hi to my
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: Texas girl. No, that's fine. Hi.
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: So he testified that Jose Romos told him in nineteen
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: eighty eight, oh this year graduated high school, that he
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: was ninety percent sure he met the boy near Washington
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 2: Square Park the day he disappeared. Disappeared. Garba said that
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: Ramos claimed he had taken Aton to his East Village
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 2: apartment and tried to have sex with him, but that
• 1:38:39
  Speaker 2: the child rejected his vile advances and Ramos put him
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: on a train. Okay, I just have to say, you
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: do not try to have sex with a five year old.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: No, no, But Jose Rollins is a piece of shit,
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: so he would say something like that.
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: But the fact that he thought that was okay to
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: say yeah, because he's tells you what kind of person
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: he is.
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly he said, I want to tell you this,
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 1: I want to get it off my chest, but I
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: want an attorney first, which okay, fine. But but after
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: asking for a lawyer, Ramos stopped talking to I mean,
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: I just listen, this is this is insane that a
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: federal attorney, prosecutor attorney is testifying in the defense for
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: this trial. Who was I means crazy.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 2: It says a lot because you don't see that very often.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: No at all.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: At all.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: I mean that person be like jeopardizing his potentially jeopardizing
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: his career, his cases. It's a federal you know, employee
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: that is way more credible than pretty much all of
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 1: the prosecution's witnesses. Like, in my opinion, that holds a
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: lot of weight for me.
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: Oh for me, I take him as more credible.
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: Than days Santana.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: Let me just start my list now. The defense asked
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: the judge if they can do a demonstration for jurors,
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: which I love.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: They wanted to show the jurors.
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: The difficulty of carrying fifty pounds on one shoulder by
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: bringing in a banana box filled with potatoes and trying
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: to lift it in a similar manner that Pedro had
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: allegedly carried a ton's body two blocks away. Guys. The
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: judge denied this, and I'm sorry, I think that was
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 2: a very reasonable demonstration. I don't know if you should
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: put it in a banana box. Maybe you make it
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: a nondescript box.
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: Well, Pedro specifically said banana box, I know, but for
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: scientific purposes.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: Banana box with brown paper, because it's the visual for me,
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: would have been like why are you carrying potatoes in
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: a box? I would have never.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: But right I think it's just saying no, because he
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: was like, that's not scientific enough, and it's like, well, sir,
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: you need to take that up with MythBusters. Okay, because.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: Hound child who's willing to get in a box and
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 2: try to be carried.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: Or just stick with the potatoes, Terry, we don't need
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: to bring brings small child.
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: If the judge felt that the potatoes weren't scientific enough,
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: why can't you get a child?
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I don't think they necessary
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: really needed to demonstrate it, but maybe for some people
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: maybe they did. I mean me, carrying anything on one
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: shoulder for two blocks is a hard No. Fifty pounds
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: for ten pounds, I'm not doing it.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just think about carrying my kids or
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: my grandkids when they were fifteen or twenty pounds and
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: you're constantly flipping from hip to hip.
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fifty pounds, yeah, I would be a making sense.
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: I'd be laying on the streets. Who see is alive?
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: Get a child actor from the rehearsal exactly, and they
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 2: would be moving.
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: I didn't picture the rehearsal type Terry the show fly.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 1: That's a show.
• 1:42:49
  Speaker 2: I know what you're talking about, But why would you
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: imply that I wouldn't.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just didn't see you as a
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: Nathan Fielder fan, It's all I'm saying. I love that now.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: I love that for you.
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 2: A lot of things you don't know about me.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: And I love that too. I learned new stuff about
• 1:43:05
  Speaker 1: you every day.
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 2: So now tell me about the next guy.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 1: All right, So the next guy is Jeffrey Rothschild. Now,
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: he was a career conman. Okay. He shared a cell
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: with Jose Ramos in an Orange County prison in nineteen
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: ninety one. Now, after weeks of gaining his trust, Ramos
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: showed him on a hand drawn map where he picked
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: up pates near his Soho home. I think we talked
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 1: about this in like part one, but we didn't name
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: the guy, but we're naming him now now. Ramos said
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: he'd taken the child to his East fourth Street apartment
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: and sodomized him. He said the boy was dead, but
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: didn't necessarily admit that he killed him.
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: Now, I just need to point out I don't think
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: this Rothschild is part of the Rothschild family. Dim in
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 2: is he I didn't go down that.
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: We're not gonna go down to Rothschild right now, but
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: don't leave us in any comments. Please think about that.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: So he said that bastard knows I did it. Ramos
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: told Rothschild about a federal prosecutor who was trying to
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: build a case against him for the boy's murder. He said,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 2: he can't prove it, and it's killing him. Good, let
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: it kill him. Let it kill him.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: We'll both be buried next to Aton.
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: Hmm. And I said, is the boy dead? And he said,
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: what the fuck do you think? Of course he's dead,
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: but there's no proof.
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: How does that not hold more weight than the other
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: bullshit we've heard by other people. I mean, one of
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: those actually sounds amendment and possible.
• 1:45:12
  Speaker 2: But he's also a con man and he could be
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: conning people. So I hold the prosecutor more.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, greb what worked hand in hand with this guy?
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: So that's the only reason why these informants I am
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: giving a little bit more credibility with That's just me.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: That's just me. Not everybody's like that. But he also
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: was like, he's a con he's not a predator, you know,
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: what I mean.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: Right, that's true. He was one of the non petos.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was in there for I think fraud charges,
• 1:45:46
  Speaker 1: which like, okay, I mean, he's in federal prison for
• 1:45:50
  Speaker 1: basically white collar crimes. It sounds like, you know, and
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: he's rooming with a fucking pedo. So I don't know.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: He didn't get any time off of anything, because that's
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: not how federal works. So I'm just.
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 2: Saying, sorry, I'm laughing at Captain that she's talking about
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 2: Yodro clown. I'm like, okay, it does look like a
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: Yadro clown.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: Now let's get into closing arguments, shall we.
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: Now, In Fishman's closing argument, he argued that convicted child
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: molester Jose Ramos is the real killer and that Pedro's
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: videotape confessions are unreliable and inconsistent. We did not hear,
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: nor can they prove that he's a child killer. There's
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: no evidence to support it. You did find out why
• 1:46:49
  Speaker 1: Aton Pates disappeared because it was not but it was
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: not because of Pedro Hernandez. It was because of Jose Ramos. Powerful.
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, Fishman spent more than a third of his
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: five hour closing I know of like five freaking hour.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: For a closing, yo alike.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: That judge didn't say, you've got an hour and a half.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I've heard a longer. I mean
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: there are longer ones, but holy crap.
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 2: Now, but he spent that time pointing the finger at
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 2: Ramos while the pedophile's creepy black and white mugshot was
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 2: up on the TV. I mean, what we know about
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 2: Ramos is that he is the person described by the
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: prosecutor in her opening. He is a manipulative person. He
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: is cunning, he is keen, he had opportunity, he had motive,
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: he has history.
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: Yep, jege Lama.
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: What I want to know from you is why couldn't
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: he add that he was also found liable in a
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: civil court for the murder.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: I believe that it's either at this time, I think
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: the family withdrew that verdict because it would have been
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: brought up in the trial. And I want to say,
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 1: before the trial started, they withdrew it and did away
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: with it memory wise on that I.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: Because they firmly believe that Pedro did it.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, switch, I think it was. I think it was
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: taken back or canceled whatever you want to call him
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: vacated before the trial. It definitely was before or after
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: the trial. I can tell you that. Also, it could
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: have been banned from talking about well, so I think
• 1:49:04
  Speaker 1: that's happened. Sometimes it should.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 2: Have been relevant because a previous jury.
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: And I think it was one st bar for million dollars.
• 1:49:15
  Speaker 1: It's crazy. Okay, thank you check, Yeah, you're well now.
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: Fishman argued again, argued that the investigators coerced the confession
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: from a man with low intelligence and a history of
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: mental illness during a six and a half hour interrogation
• 1:49:33
  Speaker 1: before it was filmed.
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 2: Was like this, It was twenty four hours total.
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: People, yes, consecutively. Really. Now, this is a case with
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: two confessions. One is by Pedro Hernandez, the other by Ramos.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: Both cannot be true. You must exclude Hoosey Ramos in
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: order to convict Pedro Hernandez. I mean he did.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: I mean he was impactful because he makes absolute sense.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: I mean he does. Yeah. Now comes Razor says, it's
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: jose or even Neil Miller. The simplest answer is you are.
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: The simplest result is.
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now in prosecutor Joan eluci Or Bond, also known
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 2: as incompetent. Her closing argument, she deconstructed the defense's claim
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 2: that a convicted child molester was Aton's true killer and
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 2: put the flame back on Pedro Hernandez. You have evidence
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 2: beyond a reasonable doubt that Pedro Hernandez murdered pay on
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: that morning May twenty fifth, nineteen seventy nine. Day after
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 2: day he saw this beautiful little boy alone, and one
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 2: day he acted on his impulse and did something terrible
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 2: to this little boy. And for the rest of his
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: life he was waiting to be discovered.
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: She did concede that a longtime suspect in the case,
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: Jose Ramos, is a despicable pedophile. You don't say, Joan, Oh,
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: you don't say. But that doesn't mean he's guilty of
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: this crime. Oh yeah, right, of course you can't say that, Joan,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 1: because if you say that, then you have fucking case. Okay,
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 1: of course, sure to say that anyway. So Eluzy ORBN
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: challenged the credibility of former US attorney Graboas and the
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: two informants. Girl, but you're gonna rely on fucking daisy.
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: Get out of here, Get out of here, Joan, Get
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: out of here.
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: Joan was looking for an easy win.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: Anyway. She also said that Pedro's disturbing twenty twelve videotaped
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 1: confession wasn't a mentally ill man's fantasy, but that of
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: a keen and cunning child killer. I wonder what kind
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: of I you it does take to even be considered
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: keen or cunning, because I like a seven year old,
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: eight year old or something like that. You were keen
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: and cunning for thirty years. This fucking guy did that
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: to all of you normal functioning people. Get out of here, Joan.
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: She is the piece of work, is all I'm gonna say.
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: Because with that IQ level, his hallucinations everything. Oh could
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: she possibly believe this? I meaning, but went on to say,
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 2: for everybody who wants to see justice done, most people
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: hope justice can be done by some other people some
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: other place, at some other time. But you're the people,
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 2: this is the place and this is the time. She
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: told the jurors.
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: Really, Joan, that's a bet she got it, Like, oh,
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 1: you guys haven't done anything in the last thirty years,
• 1:53:49
  Speaker 1: but now now we got it. You know, we saw
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: U date now whatever Jones now. Jurors began deliberations on
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: April fifteenth, twenty fifteen team. On April twenty ninth, that's
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: several days later, the jury sent a note to the
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: judge saying, we the jury, after ten days of deliberations,
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: want to let the court know we are unable to
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 1: reach an unanimous decision.
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: But guys, guess what. The judge encouraged the panel of
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: seven men and five women to go back and try harder.
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: Given the nature of this case, I don't think you've
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: been considering this case long enough to conclude you can't
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: reach a verdict, the judge told them, over the objection
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 2: of the defense lawyer, who insisted that a mistrial be declared.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 1: Then on thank you, babe, look at that. Just fine?
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: All both feet?
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: Where's mine?
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: I got shrampy, shramp mobo.
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: Fate, I got nutting.
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: My thought he liked me. I think they're good, Fine,
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 1: they're fine. Okay, Well anyway, So on May eighth, the
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: jurors told the judge again that they were deadlocked. But
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: despite the arguments from the defense lawyers against sending them
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: back once again to deliberate, Judge Wiley did just that.
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: You guys, they're like several weeks in a deliberation here.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: This is crazy. The jurors sat stonefaced as the judge
• 1:55:43
  Speaker 1: told them, I'd like you to keep deliberating, noting I'm
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: not asking any of you to violate your conscience or
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: abandon your best judgment. I'm pretty sure at this point
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: that's exactly what is happening. After how many weeks is this?
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: They went back April fifteenth, it's now May eighth.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: I think the judge is saying, I do not want
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 2: to mistrial on my record.
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: To fucking bad bro. Maybe Joan should have done a
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: better job.
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 2: I don't know happened. He better not have left shirt
• 1:56:17
  Speaker 2: and put my car better not better, not now, guys.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 2: Just a few hours later, the judge did declare a misstroll.
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 2: The votes weren't close, okay, as there was only one
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 2: not guilty holdout.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: Prosecutor Prize Joan Alusi or Bone immediately asked for a
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 2: court date to set a new trial, and an appearance
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: was set for June tenth.
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: Of course, she fucking did now. Aton's dad, Stan Pates,
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: was left angry by the deadlock and said his and
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: extended family were convinced of Hernandez's guilt. All right. Aton
• 1:57:07
  Speaker 1: was a beautiful, outgoing, friendly curious little kid. He said,
• 1:57:13
  Speaker 1: he would have made a great adult. That's what got
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 1: him killed, because he was willing to go with this
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: asshole down the stairs. I mean, I don't disagree with
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: him on all of that. I just think it's the
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: wrong asshole. Aton is all of those things.
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: I agree, and I think Ayton unfortunately had I a
• 1:57:38
  Speaker 2: lot of those kind of asshole people in his near circle.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, what he's gonna go off with some
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: fucking bodega worker that he barely knows instead of his
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: babysitter's boyfriend or the handyman of the building that he
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 1: sees every day, which one of these is more likely.
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: Who gave me a dollar? Well, he was changing close
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: the ninth Uh huh.
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: A's I said, there's yeah, get nowt He also said
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: the family of Aton Paids has waited thirty six years
• 1:58:11
  Speaker 2: for a resolution as to what happened to our sweet
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 2: little boy back in nineteen seventy nine. We now have
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: had about three months of trial testimony in jury deliberations.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 2: Let me make it very clear that we are frustrated
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: and very disappointed that the jury has been unable to
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: come to a decision. Our long ordeal is not over.
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: I'm getting he's not wrong, but you know, you mind
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: this stay having a week fucking I mean it wasn't
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: super weak though they did, but whatever. Anyway, He also added,
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: we have analyzed all the testimony, debated the merits of
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 1: various witnesses, and come to the conclusion that Pedro Hernandez's
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 1: is guilty of crimes to which he confessed. Beyond any
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. Pedro Hernandez kidnapped and killed my son. He
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: is a guilty man who had been conscious stricken due
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: to his deeds and haunted by demons since that day.
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: I just want to just want to point out that
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: the Pizzas believed and trusted in Graboa and Jose being
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: the suspect so much they filed a twelve point four
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: million dollar lawsuit. But you want to believe these fucking
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: snake oil salesmen prosecutors who are doing it for their
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: name instead of in your son, Sir.
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 2: What I have to say, after working with and talking
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 2: with families on midday missing that I absolutely can understand
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 2: why they believe that they want answer you could probably
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: they're kind of like if you've ever heard this saying,
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: oh that salesman is so good he could sell ice
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 2: to an Eskimo disappearent.
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: These families just want answers. Oh yeah, great, it's very powerful.
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: You just want it to be over. And I have
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: nothing wrong with the pads. I'm just clarifying for the audience. Yeah,
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: just reminders of what just reminders you know, ten years ago,
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: not even that. Yeah, in the story. Yes.
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 2: After the mistrial, many of the jurors broke their silence
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 2: on what it was like spending eighteen days deliberating. They
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 2: spoke of having long debates regarding whether someone could be
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 2: convicted on their confession alone, whether Jose Ramos was the
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 2: more likely killer, whether Pedro Hernandez was severely mentally ill
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 2: and his confession bogus, and whether the bodega had been
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 2: properly searched.
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: Yes, Adam Sarah, I think that's a sorry Sarah's time.
• 2:01:14
  Speaker 1: So was the loan juror who refused to budge and
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: voted for an acquittal. Come in you, sir. He talked
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: about Aton's book back and the search of the bodega.
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: No police account introduced at trial, in testimony or through
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: department records unequivocally stated that the Bodega basement had been searched.
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: That's a whole frickin' thing. There were things, but there's
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: awesome not things, and that led to some pretty spicy
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: debates in the jury room. Here we do have an
• 2:01:48
  Speaker 1: interview clip from Adam after the verdict was canceled.
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 5: Ultimately, I couldn't find enough evidence that wasn't circumstantial to convict.
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 5: I couldn't get there. For me, his confession was very bizarre.
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 5: No matter how many times it happened, it got more
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 5: and more bizarre. And I feel that the initial confession,
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 5: there were lots of issues surrounding custody, surrounding Miranda rights,
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 5: surrounding the fact that it wasn't video for six or
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 5: seven hours, and I felt I felt like mental health
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 5: issues were a huge part of this case.
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Adam. And you know what, Adam, I agree.
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. I'm standing standing strong for eighteen days.
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's tough. You know, you really do
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: have to believe that to stand there when you have
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: several other people that are probably really fucking money.
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: You imagine I believe he got in that jury room.
• 2:02:55
  Speaker 1: Oh well, you're about some of it, don't you. Worry.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 2: I know, but I'm like, can you just imagine.
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly now, about seven of the jurors who thought
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: Pedro was guilty met with prosecutor Joan A. Losey Orbin
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: and her team to share insights from the trial.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: Now, obviously eleven of us voted to convict, and we
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 2: felt strongly about Pedro's guilt. We know what's likely this
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: is going to be retried, so we want to do
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: our best to help the prosecution fine tune the testimony
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: as they go into the next trial, said Chris Giliberte.
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, Chris, I mean, he's entitled to his opinion, but
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 1: I think he's wrong. Now another juror, Jennifer O'Connor, remember
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 1: that name. So the former jurors did most of the talking.
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 1: We just had a lot of information and we just
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: let it flow. We just talked about all the different
• 2:04:05
  Speaker 1: elements of the crime and how we got past resemble doubt.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 1: And just by the way, I just want to clarify,
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: this is a very normal thing after a trial, no
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: matter the outcome, both sides do try to talk to
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 1: jurors afterwards, whether even if verdict was found or not.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: So this part isn't weird.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: No, it's not because I like it, because I look
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 2: at it this way, like an emergency management. We look
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: how could we have done better? How can we improve?
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: Totally normal?
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 2: That is all they are doing. There is nothing shady
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 2: or weird about that.
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's totally normal.
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 2: Now, several of these jurors were not happy about the
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 2: media attention that Adam Cyros was getting, seeing the amount
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 2: of pressed he's giving. It makes us very sad because
• 2:04:59
  Speaker 2: the emphasis on this should be on Aton and justice
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: for Aton's family, and it shouldn't be about one rogue.
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 2: Juror O'Connor said, so he's considered rogue because he didn't
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: go their way as why.
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: He didn't have the same opinion as everybody else. There's
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: something wrong with that guy, right, and that's why we
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: have cures and a jury team. Or maybe Chris, you're
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: a level seven susceptible who just easily believes bullshit. But whatever, whatever, Chris, Sorry,
• 2:05:40
  Speaker 1: I don't like somebody.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 2: I don't want to make you feel bad.
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 1: But it was Jennifer who said that, Oh it was
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: even better because she's the worst. She's the worst.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 2: Because you're getting ready to tell us about Chris, But no,
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 2: that was a general comment.
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: You're right, Chris, name is under for the next one.
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 8: Jennifer, she's a talk about want somebody wanting this, but
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 8: like good old Jennifer O'Connell's come on down.
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 2: Like Cory True Crime trying to be a drama queen.
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Anyway, So Chris, I apologize Chris for
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: accusing you of that woman's statement earlier. But you were
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: saying now, Chris GILBERTI said, it's frustrating the pieces we've
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: been seeing about Adam Ciros being depicted as the Henry Fonda.
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: That's twelve anger angry men for those of you don't
• 2:06:28
  Speaker 1: know of our jury, when in fact, there's a strong
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: feeling among us that he kind of came into the
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: room with an agenda and the testimony didn't support that.
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: The theories that you need to dive into to discount
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: all the corroborating testimony are just so remote and wild.
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: None of us could go there.
• 2:06:58
  Speaker 2: What So, what do you think Chris would say to
• 2:07:02
  Speaker 2: us if he was on with us right now? Because
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 2: we're on Adam's side, Chris. So Chris, if you want
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: to reach out to us, please, You were in the
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 2: jury room you were in court. Maybe we didn't get
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 2: anything because I think going into a dury room you
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 2: need to see evidence to back up improve the charge.
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 2: From everything we've read, the rabbit holes we've gone down,
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 2: I hadn't seen that ship.
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: How dare you? How dare Adam?
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 3: Thank you?
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: You've said it in a few words instead of my ramblings. Guys,
• 2:07:49
  Speaker 2: they shouldn't shame this guy in my opinion, now Pedro.
• 2:07:54
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't shame I wouldn't shame these jurors either if
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: they weren't assholes about it. But quite frankly, they were huge, huge,
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: huge assholes. Oh about Adam afterwards? Like they were very
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: vocal and they were rude, and they do some more
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: things that I very very much disagree with. So just
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: that's the only because I do always say, the jury's
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: verdict is is what it is like. You have to
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: respect that, and I do respect.
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 2: I do respect. Huge shouldn't if you respect it, you
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 2: shouldn't fault. Everybody comes in with their own stuff, and
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 2: I love that.
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: I'm going to just be a bitch here. A miss
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: put up.
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: My email at the bottom because we wouldn't want him
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: to know her name. Is really amos. But we're just
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 2: going to go.
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: With that now.
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: Red Pedro's second trial began in October twenty sixteen. Now, guys,
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 2: we're not going to go over all of the testimony
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 2: and evidence because it's mostly the same. There's a few exceptions.
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: Okay, very few, but they're there.
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 2: One a new prosecutor joined the team, Joel Seedman. Okay,
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to tell.
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: You what time my brain, what that ties. It's just
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: so I do.
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 2: But seed Man, I just think of the doctors that
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 2: get in trouble for running fertility clinics and they impregnate
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 2: all of their patients with their seed because they're the
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 2: seed man. That is what I thought of.
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 1: That's funny.
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: He had won a.
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 2: Conviction against you light up My Life trust fun playboy
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 2: Nicholas Brooks for the murder of his swim suit designer
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 2: girlfriend in twenty thirteen.
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: Shut the shut up, Capin, shut up?
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: What is that?
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: Luigi's Yes. Wow, And that's.
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 2: A federal case and we can't stream it.
• 2:10:17
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, no, no, no, no, interesting cabin I didn't
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 1: know that. Wow.
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 2: You know what I will see though, if anybody has
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: airline miles and they want to shut up me. What
• 2:10:35
  Speaker 2: don't covered Harvey?
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 7: Well?
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 2: I mean did she do him? Or was she his attorney?
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: I mean a broken clock is right twice a day.
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: So whatever I'm gonna say.
• 2:10:48
  Speaker 2: If anybody has free airline points, I have some free
• 2:10:51
  Speaker 2: hotel points, I'm willing to go to New York.
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: Is the case that got overturned and got a whole
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: new trial out of it? Oh? I think it was okay,
• 2:11:06
  Speaker 1: see find out so I can give her a thumb.
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 2: Good job, Joan, good job, Joan, Joan. It might be
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 2: time to change careers. We all keep clicking the same button,
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 2: I know now. The second thing was that the judge
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 2: band mentioning that there was a previous trial. That's not uncommon, guys.
• 2:11:35
  Speaker 2: No what she left to run for office?
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: Which time the time we're about to talk about? Or
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: should go and do it again? Because of course she did.
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: Of course she probably did talk about a cloud chaser
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 1: Joan a lose oh aorbon or whatever your name?
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 2: Can we just call her Joan lose Obo.
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 1: Lose Obo since the elections. Yes, I don't like.
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 2: Her, and I've just opened Joel got a better tie
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 2: in a fashion helper because that tie is bad. And
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 2: I try not to judge people's appearance, but that tie
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: is just bad. His wife should not have let him
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: out of that. Joan, Oh, Jude, Joan email para. You
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 2: know what? All right, Chris, come on, Joan, come on,
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: we will do a joint show.
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: Let's go on, listen. I have no problem being proven wrong,
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 1: Like I really don't, Okay.
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 2: Amy, what I've gathered sitting with their email addresses, and
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: I will reach out to them directly and buy the show.
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. Anyway, back to the second trial. So three,
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: all right, there's the first two things that were different.
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: The third thing that was different, and this is where
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 1: I really start to have some problems, is that several
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 1: members of the first jury regularly attended the second trial. Specifically,
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: there were two jurors who were always seated close to
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: or next to stand pets. I wonder who one of
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: those people are. Don't worry, we'll find out. At least
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: one of them took notes and would share them with
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: the prosecution when the jury was out of the room.
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: They actually told another spectator that she made notes when
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: it appeared that the second jury was confused and offered
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: suggestions on what needed to be made clearer. By the way,
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: in case you're wondering, neither one of those people have
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: a lot of great Okay, just by the way, before
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 1: you go, button, Karen read one of the old noe.
• 2:14:01
  Speaker 2: Alright, a law degree in Karen Reid, there was a
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 2: law degree involved.
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: I think Jennifer decorates shit or whatever.
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 2:14:11
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so we're gonna fast forward, guys to about four
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 2: months later, in February twenty seventeen, when the new jury
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 2: began their deliberations. Okay, on the second day, after having
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: sent two prior notes, the jury sent a third note
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 2: to the trial court, which reads s follows.
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: Sorry, it takes me longer to chew a shrimp than I.
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 2: Thought to that shrimp.
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 1: All Right, we the jury requests that the judge explained
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 1: to us whether, if we find the confession at CCPO
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 1: before the miranda writes was nonvoluntary, we must just regard
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 1: the to later videotaped confessions at CCPO and the DA's office,
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: the confessions to Rosemary and Becky Hernandez, and the confessions
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 1: to the various doctors. So let me just summ it
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: up before you real quick. They're saying, if we find
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: that the very first time he talks to the police,
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: his rights were violated and it was not voluntary. Do
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 1: we then carry that over to every every other confession
• 2:15:30
  Speaker 1: he has. Okay, that's that's the question. Great question, great question,
• 2:15:35
  Speaker 1: fantastic question. I will say that.
• 2:15:37
  Speaker 2: Great question. Now, the judge asked each party's position. The
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 2: state said that the appropriate answer was no. The defense
• 2:15:50
  Speaker 2: considered that answer to be both misleading because it failed
• 2:15:54
  Speaker 2: to give the jury guidance on the rules governing unmarandized confessions,
• 2:16:01
  Speaker 2: and legally incorrect because there was no question that Pedro's
• 2:16:08
  Speaker 2: post warning confession at the CCPO was improperly obtained, as
• 2:16:15
  Speaker 2: it occurred within moments of the involuntary unwarned confession. That's
• 2:16:23
  Speaker 2: a big deal, guys, that's a very very big that's
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: a big deal.
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 1: Sorry, it's one of the biggest deals actually that you
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 1: could you could have. Now, the defense urged the court
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: to at the very least instruct the jury that it's
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: up to them. They don't have to disregard them, but
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: can if they choose to. Ultimately, the judge, however, read
• 2:16:47
  Speaker 1: the jury back its question and then said the answer
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 1: is no. That's it. That's all.
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 2: He said, No, I wonder if the judge and bever friends.
• 2:17:03
  Speaker 1: Just the thought.
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 2: But anyway, following the courts, I should say the judge,
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 2: but that's the court's response. The jury continued to deliberate
• 2:17:14
  Speaker 2: for another seven days. On the worst day in my opinion,
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: February fourteenth, twenty seventeen, which is a day for love,
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: the jury acquitted Pedro Hernandez of intentional murder in the
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 2: second degree, but found him guilty of felony murder in
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 2: kidnapping in the first degree.
• 2:17:42
  Speaker 1: Rights so guilty, yes, but we'll get to that. You
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 1: can finish the last part.
• 2:17:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. At the sentencing hearing, Stan Pets addressed Pedro Hernandez.
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: Before we get into to that, though, I will say this,
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 1: the fact that the jury deliverted as long as they did,
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 1: they came back with notes. They actually acquitted him of
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 1: of second degree murder. Okay, that means that case was
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: not as solid as right. So like, could the judge
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 1: or could the judge's response to the jurors have completely
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: changed their verdict. We'll find out. We'll find out. To say, now,
• 2:18:27
  Speaker 1: Stan addresses Pagro, Now, I know what the face of
• 2:18:33
  Speaker 1: evil looks like. After all, these years, we finally know
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 1: what dark secret you kept locked in your heart. You
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 1: took our precious child and threw him in the garbage.
• 2:18:47
  Speaker 1: I will never forgive you. The god you pray to
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: will never forgive you. You are the monster in your nightmares,
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: and will join your father in hell. Okay, I mean.
• 2:19:08
  Speaker 2: I think whatever Aton's Mohammed dad wants to say that
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 2: is well within. I mean, I have never walked a
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 2: minute in their.
• 2:19:20
  Speaker 1: Shoes for thirty seven years.
• 2:19:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I Pedro Hernandez was sentenced to concurrent terms of
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 2: twenty five to life in prison.
• 2:19:32
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 2:19:33
  Speaker 2: After the verdict, jurors spoke out and were very passionate
• 2:19:37
  Speaker 2: in their belief that Pedro was in fact guilty. Several
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 2: of them even ended up forging relationships with the Pates
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 2: and the prosecution.
• 2:19:50
  Speaker 1: Team that day outside of the courthouse. Previous trial jur
• 2:19:56
  Speaker 1: Jennifer O'Connor, who talked about embraced Michael Castillon, a juror
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: for the from the second trial. Oh what, Jennifer, that's
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 1: the weird. Why would you do that at Jennifer. When
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: asked by Newsweek how the two knew each other, Castilian
• 2:20:20
  Speaker 1: said that he had been told by a court officer
• 2:20:24
  Speaker 1: that one or more jurors from the first trial were
• 2:20:29
  Speaker 1: in attendance and sometimes sat with Stan Pates. He didn't
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: say when he was told that or if anyone else
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: had heard, and he tried to take that comment back,
• 2:20:44
  Speaker 1: asking the reporter not once, but twice to not report
• 2:20:49
  Speaker 1: his comment. Oh, Jennifer, I meant to just bite my
• 2:20:56
  Speaker 1: tongue now.
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 2: Michael Castillon isn't in interesting jurer because guys, here's a
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 2: law degree from Duke University.
• 2:21:06
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 2: He was also one of several jurors who stayed in
• 2:21:11
  Speaker 2: the courtroom after the verdict to talk with the reporters.
• 2:21:15
  Speaker 2: He spoke at length about the deliberations and the evidence
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 2: they weighed, calling them thoughtful and logical. He described the
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 2: evidence presented by fish Vein as the equivalent of throwing
• 2:21:28
  Speaker 2: spaghetti against the wall.
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: I'm curious. I'm just curious. Who does I don't know this,
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 1: but did did Michael Castilion ever get a job with
• 2:21:42
  Speaker 1: the New York City District Attorney's Office. I'm just wondering.
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if, like.
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 2: I, whatever happens, we have some people who can find
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 2: that out for us. I can just see them in
• 2:21:55
  Speaker 2: my brain going right. But the fact that the judge
• 2:22:01
  Speaker 2: said nobody could know there was a previous trial, and
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 2: yet somehow he knew that Jennifer Yeah.
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, right, they embraced. Would you get let a brandam
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 1: stranger hug you. No, especially in New York, they don't
• 2:22:18
  Speaker 1: do that shit. I mean, I haven't been there, but
• 2:22:20
  Speaker 1: I've heard and it's not a knock to New Yorkers.
• 2:22:22
  Speaker 1: I just I just hear. That's just how it is,
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 1: you know, like, no, you ain't doing that now. When
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: Fishbain got word of this, he said he would soon
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: ask the judge to order a hearing into what he
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 1: called the extent of the jury contamination, and he sent
• 2:22:41
  Speaker 1: out his investigators to speak with all the jurors. Guess
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 1: what they didn't like that. One of the jurors who
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 1: did speak with Pro Publica said that, to their knowledge,
• 2:22:52
  Speaker 1: none of the jurors were aware of the jurors from
• 2:22:55
  Speaker 1: the first trial in the courtroom. That doesn't mean anything, now,
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 1: it doesn't. That could have just been like not paying
• 2:23:03
  Speaker 1: attention at all, or they were in the.
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 2: Gospel called out, tried to call back his comment. I'm
• 2:23:10
  Speaker 2: going to just know right, so Fisherman said, the initial
• 2:23:16
  Speaker 2: vote taken by the second jury broke down almost evenly,
• 2:23:22
  Speaker 2: which is crazy guilty and five not guilty. Guys, that's huge.
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 1: That is very huge.
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 2: That's huge if they got a conviction, if they were
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 2: had a mistrial, that would be like, okay, that makes sense,
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 2: but yeah, he said. His concern is that the presence
• 2:23:45
  Speaker 2: of the former jurors, particularly their support and accompaniment of
• 2:23:50
  Speaker 2: stan pet might have influenced their verdict and the highly
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 2: emotional case.
• 2:23:57
  Speaker 1: You think, yeah, He said.
• 2:24:01
  Speaker 2: He was especially concerned because Castillon was outspoken regarding the
• 2:24:07
  Speaker 2: guilty verdict at the press conference.
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 1: I am sorry, but Castilian has so much to gain
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 1: from this. Oh, he's absolutely much. Again, I don't think
• 2:24:18
  Speaker 1: I've ever thought that about a juror before, but like, absolutely.
• 2:24:23
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 2:24:27
  Speaker 1: Now, the judge denied fish Vein's motion to dismiss the
• 2:24:31
  Speaker 1: guilty verdict over jury contamination. The motion also claimed an
• 2:24:36
  Speaker 1: alternate juror in the case had said he too became
• 2:24:40
  Speaker 1: aware of the earlier jurors during the course of the
• 2:24:45
  Speaker 1: second trial, so that not just one, more than one
• 2:24:49
  Speaker 1: person has said that now. Defense investigator Joe O'Brien reached
• 2:24:53
  Speaker 1: an alternate who said he knew about the first jury
• 2:24:58
  Speaker 1: well before deliberations.
• 2:25:03
  Speaker 2: How did he know? Did they investigate that? Did they
• 2:25:07
  Speaker 2: look into that?
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 1: Oh, look at the construction litigation. Oh wait, isn't there
• 2:25:11
  Speaker 1: a group of people in New York for in New
• 2:25:16
  Speaker 1: York with constraints. Isn't there like a group of people
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 1: that are notoriously known? Oh, my gosh, is that.
• 2:25:25
  Speaker 2: I can't you know, my brain doesn't work so well
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 2: these days. We're gonna have to think about it.
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 1: We'll get back to that now.
• 2:25:34
  Speaker 2: He could not recall if it was a general announcement
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 2: to the jury, if it was just a comment passed
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 2: between the two of them, But he assured me that
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 2: other jurors knew this as well. The investigator didn't reach
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 2: anyone who deliberated in the case. And guys, I'm going
• 2:25:54
  Speaker 2: to tell you, I'm not an attorney, but this is
• 2:26:00
  Speaker 2: sus as shit.
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.
• 2:26:03
  Speaker 2: After serving on a jury earlier this year, I think
• 2:26:06
  Speaker 2: hevin the jurors from the first trial did influence And
• 2:26:10
  Speaker 2: the fact that you have more than one who has
• 2:26:14
  Speaker 2: said they knew yeah about the first trial, that is
• 2:26:19
  Speaker 2: a mistrial in my.
• 2:26:21
  Speaker 1: Books, And like I get it, they're alternates, so they
• 2:26:24
  Speaker 1: didn't really go into deliberation. But that should be enough.
• 2:26:27
  Speaker 1: That should be enough a riad because that information should
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 1: not have.
• 2:26:31
  Speaker 2: Been known until after the trial.
• 2:26:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it seems like Jennifer didn't really keep a
• 2:26:38
  Speaker 1: low profile, did it. No, she didn't anyway, So we're
• 2:26:44
  Speaker 1: almost wrapped up, guys, I promise. Okay. So arguments were
• 2:26:47
  Speaker 1: held on April twenty fourth, twenty twenty five, that's right,
• 2:26:54
  Speaker 1: this year, you guys, This year in front of the
• 2:26:57
  Speaker 1: Second Circuit State of Appeals Court asking that Pedro Hernandez
• 2:27:03
  Speaker 1: should get a new trial. Pedro's appellate attorneys argued that
• 2:27:08
  Speaker 1: an instruction given by the court in response to a
• 2:27:12
  Speaker 1: jury question was improperly ignored. They believe that this clearly
• 2:27:18
  Speaker 1: established a Supreme Court precedent and prejudice the verdict. Well,
• 2:27:25
  Speaker 1: I told you all this was going to be coming
• 2:27:26
  Speaker 1: back into real time and be relevant.
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the president they were referring to was a
• 2:27:32
  Speaker 2: case decision in two thousand and four which held unconstitutional
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 2: the law enforcement tacted of intentionally obtaining a confession without
• 2:27:45
  Speaker 2: giving miranda warnings, then administering the warnings, and finally asking
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 2: the suspect to repeat the confession. It is asked backwards.
• 2:27:59
  Speaker 1: In two thousand, an in four hag backwards was in
• 2:28:04
  Speaker 1: twenty twelve. You guys okay now? A reverse decision was
• 2:28:12
  Speaker 1: ordered by the appellate court on July twenty first, twenty
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 1: twenty five, meaning that now, right now, sixty four year
• 2:28:22
  Speaker 1: old Pedro Hernandez would get a new trial or even
• 2:28:28
  Speaker 1: be released. They wrote, we concluded that the state trial
• 2:28:34
  Speaker 1: court contradicted clearly established federal law, and this error was
• 2:28:41
  Speaker 1: not harmless because they knew better. They all knew better.
• 2:28:47
  Speaker 1: Everybody knew better. Shame on all of them now.
• 2:28:53
  Speaker 2: In an email to Pro publica former DA Syvance Junior
• 2:28:57
  Speaker 2: said it was exceptionally chewing, giving the passage of time,
• 2:29:03
  Speaker 2: but also very strong, and that the recent decision came
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 2: is a surprise to him.
• 2:29:10
  Speaker 1: Oh God, whatever, Sorry, should have been no surprise, I'm
• 2:29:15
  Speaker 1: like dude. Clearly, the jury heard substantial expert testimony from
• 2:29:24
  Speaker 1: both the prosecution and the defense to socide again by
• 2:29:28
  Speaker 1: the advance, by the way, and considered both and the
• 2:29:32
  Speaker 1: legal instructions by the court during deliberations and before the verdict,
• 2:29:38
  Speaker 1: he said, adding that he continues to believe Hernandez is guilty.
• 2:29:43
  Speaker 1: Remember that last bullet point and that study with doctor earlier.
• 2:29:49
  Speaker 1: He continues to believe that Hernandez is guilty and that
• 2:29:54
  Speaker 1: his thoughts are with the Pets family and with Aton,
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 1: are they because you're the one who opened this wound
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 1: sirt for your campaign? You you, sir?
• 2:30:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I will give him this small credit. I think
• 2:30:13
  Speaker 2: he set out initially, I don't wanting to do the
• 2:30:18
  Speaker 2: right thing. Maybe not, he just wanted to win votes.
• 2:30:23
  Speaker 1: M h. Yeah, because all the other opponents of that race. Yeah,
• 2:30:28
  Speaker 1: they're asked by Pates as well, and some of them
• 2:30:30
  Speaker 1: were like, there's just not enough evidence, and that's like
• 2:30:33
  Speaker 1: the can't.
• 2:30:35
  Speaker 2: I always try to find good Yeah, I'm sorry I can't.
• 2:30:40
  Speaker 2: So now Van's successor, Alvin Bragg, will have to decide
• 2:30:45
  Speaker 2: whether to retry Pedro Hernandez for the third time. In
• 2:30:51
  Speaker 2: a statement from Bragg's office said only we are reviewing
• 2:30:57
  Speaker 2: the decision as of today. The state has asked delay
• 2:31:03
  Speaker 2: sending this case back to trial court and instead are
• 2:31:07
  Speaker 2: debating about taking this to the US Supreme Court. Of
• 2:31:11
  Speaker 2: course they are Pedro Hernandez. Oawyer said they would oppose
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 2: prosecutors requests to put this case on the hold. Why
• 2:31:19
  Speaker 2: they contemplate an appeal because that means Pedro stays behind bars.
• 2:31:25
  Speaker 1: Yep, yep ye, and a bunch of people want to
• 2:31:29
  Speaker 1: ruin a man's life for their own fucking egos. Because well,
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 1: we're about to get into closing arguments. But just to
• 2:31:37
  Speaker 1: be known, as Kaptain said here, every single da before
• 2:31:43
  Speaker 1: Vance said there wasn't enough, we don't have enough evidence,
• 2:31:46
  Speaker 1: and then then Vance went after that French guy and
• 2:31:50
  Speaker 1: made to be look like a fucking idiot and asshole.
• 2:31:54
  Speaker 1: So let's try to solve this other high profile case.
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 1: Oh what this this person just fell into to our lap.
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm going to be a hero after
• 2:32:02
  Speaker 1: I just made a fucking fool of myself to the world. Yeah,
• 2:32:07
  Speaker 1: who has the most to gain from this? Ask yourself
• 2:32:12
  Speaker 1: that that's why this case makes me so freaking angry.
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 1: But I'll do my closing thoughts. Man, I got way
• 2:32:24
  Speaker 1: more worked out tonight than I thought I was going
• 2:32:26
  Speaker 1: to expected it.
• 2:32:30
  Speaker 2: I have done well. And my tongue actually is like
• 2:32:33
  Speaker 2: got little blood spots because I've tried to bite it
• 2:32:36
  Speaker 2: because I am Then I'll save it for my closing thoughts.
• 2:32:41
  Speaker 1: You give a shores all right now? I didn't really
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 1: know much about this case at all at all until
• 2:32:50
  Speaker 1: I saw Pedro was getting a new trial a few
• 2:32:53
  Speaker 1: months ago in July. I saw that the day it happened,
• 2:32:56
  Speaker 1: Terry was about to have surgery, and I was like, well,
• 2:32:58
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have to wait till she's back to cover
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 1: this one, because you know, it's one of the biggest
• 2:33:04
  Speaker 1: missing person's cases ever, and like that's your thing. And
• 2:33:07
  Speaker 1: then I was like, oh, this is very interesting. I
• 2:33:10
  Speaker 1: don't really know anything about this, and the more I
• 2:33:14
  Speaker 1: looked into it, the more I found myself getting angrier
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 1: and angrier, like all of the people involved that God
• 2:33:26
  Speaker 1: us to this point should be ashamed and they should
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 1: be shamed for what they have done. Now. I know
• 2:33:34
  Speaker 1: many people are going to disagree with me many things,
• 2:33:38
  Speaker 1: and that's fine. We're all entitled to our opinion. But
• 2:33:42
  Speaker 1: I very much believe in justice and I want nothing
• 2:33:48
  Speaker 1: more than justice for Aton and his family. And it
• 2:33:52
  Speaker 1: is my opinion that there was no justice done here,
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 1: and I don't believe there ever will be. I do
• 2:34:02
  Speaker 1: think that Pedro is factually innocent. I do not think
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 1: he had anything to do with this. You had two
• 2:34:13
  Speaker 1: known child predators that interacted with Aton regularly. Knowing what
• 2:34:20
  Speaker 1: we know now in twenty twenty five, we should know
• 2:34:24
  Speaker 1: better right now, Nothing Nothing was found on any of
• 2:34:31
  Speaker 1: Pedro's devices about Kittie's stuff. Think about that, Knowing what
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 1: we know, you're telling me a fifty year old man
• 2:34:41
  Speaker 1: who apparently is a child predator killer, according to Joan,
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 1: doesn't have shit, because believe you me, bet your ass,
• 2:34:51
  Speaker 1: if there was, the prosecution would have been yelling from
• 2:34:55
  Speaker 1: the rooftop about it. That's how you know it doesn't exist,
• 2:34:59
  Speaker 1: all right, In my experience of cases and whatnot, you
• 2:35:04
  Speaker 1: don't just stop being a child predator and you don't
• 2:35:08
  Speaker 1: just start being one and you just don't like it,
• 2:35:11
  Speaker 1: just you know, just.
• 2:35:12
  Speaker 2: Wake up one day and say, oh, by the way.
• 2:35:14
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, no, that's not how it works. And
• 2:35:17
  Speaker 1: I believe that this was all politically motivated, every single
• 2:35:23
  Speaker 1: ounce of it, because the investigation from nineteen seventy nine
• 2:35:28
  Speaker 1: to twenty ten when it was reopened by Vance, every
• 2:35:32
  Speaker 1: single prosecutor so they didn't have the evidence they needed
• 2:35:36
  Speaker 1: to take it to trial, you know why, because it
• 2:35:38
  Speaker 1: would be ethically and immral to do that. But not
• 2:35:45
  Speaker 1: for Vance, not for the Assistant DA that did his interviews,
• 2:35:51
  Speaker 1: not for Joan. No, this is all about politics, and
• 2:35:56
  Speaker 1: we didn't even go into I don't think or was
• 2:35:58
  Speaker 1: it the part two where Joan ran for office afterwards
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 1: and she lost. She came back get a little bit,
• 2:36:05
  Speaker 1: but not much, you guys. As soon as that first
• 2:36:09
  Speaker 1: trial was over, she left and ran on this trial
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 1: as part of her campaign.
• 2:36:16
  Speaker 2: This was a stepping stone for her career, it.
• 2:36:20
  Speaker 1: Was, and for what mentally and a mentally ill man
• 2:36:26
  Speaker 1: who's borderline mentally handicapped, that's what you want to put
• 2:36:31
  Speaker 1: your high heels on while you go up climbing the
• 2:36:34
  Speaker 1: stage for your fucking political bullshit. It's unbelievable, it's disgusting.
• 2:36:41
  Speaker 1: And the problem with New York is that we don't
• 2:36:44
  Speaker 1: get to see trials. There's no cameras in New York,
• 2:36:49
  Speaker 1: all right, no cameras in state court, not in their
• 2:36:52
  Speaker 1: federal court.
• 2:36:53
  Speaker 2: We know why, and we can't know why they don't
• 2:36:57
  Speaker 2: want to do interviews. Why would they want to do trials?
• 2:37:01
  Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, this was zealous prosecution, just like fucking Karen Read.
• 2:37:10
  Speaker 1: It's the same thing to make the careers of everyone
• 2:37:14
  Speaker 1: involved in I call bullshit. That is not just people,
• 2:37:18
  Speaker 1: innocent people. This is not our.
• 2:37:20
  Speaker 2: Becoming victims along with the other victims. It's just yeah.
• 2:37:26
  Speaker 1: Now I will be covering this stream trial. Oh be
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 1: your ass.
• 2:37:32
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 2:37:33
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna be covering. It won't be televised, but I
• 2:37:36
  Speaker 1: will put together all updates every single freaking day to
• 2:37:40
  Speaker 1: find out what is going on in that courtroom. When
• 2:37:44
  Speaker 1: it does. I don't know when it's going to be,
• 2:37:46
  Speaker 1: We don't know, but I'm not gonna let these assholes
• 2:37:50
  Speaker 1: just hide in their shadows where there's no no cameras
• 2:37:53
  Speaker 1: and hoping that nobody's paying attention. Because we have to
• 2:37:57
  Speaker 1: pay attention to this. We absolutely they have to. And
• 2:38:01
  Speaker 1: maybe I'll be wrong. I don't know, maybe I won't be,
• 2:38:04
  Speaker 1: but I think everyone's eyes need to be on this
• 2:38:06
  Speaker 1: trial when it does happen. If if he is factually innocent,
• 2:38:12
  Speaker 1: then it is up to us as citizens to ask
• 2:38:15
  Speaker 1: the hard questions, shine a spotlight on this case, make
• 2:38:18
  Speaker 1: the people who earn their money from us answer some
• 2:38:22
  Speaker 1: fucking questions. And as I said, I want justin for Aton,
• 2:38:26
  Speaker 1: but I don't want justice just for justice sake. I'm
• 2:38:31
  Speaker 1: not that kind of person.
• 2:38:33
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry.
• 2:38:34
  Speaker 1: Justice to me isn't justice if it's factual, exactly exactly,
• 2:38:42
  Speaker 1: it's not.
• 2:38:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I better tell you I hate every fucking thing
• 2:38:52
  Speaker 2: about this case because Aton. The only way I feel
• 2:38:59
  Speaker 2: he and his family are going to get justice is
• 2:39:02
  Speaker 2: if his body is found and there's DNA. I don't
• 2:39:09
  Speaker 2: because confessions can't be believed because the pedophile who confessed,
• 2:39:16
  Speaker 2: who had direct access to Aton, wasn't believed to be
• 2:39:22
  Speaker 2: a confession. And then a mentally challenged person's confession is
• 2:39:29
  Speaker 2: taken as the act of God to some degree. So
• 2:39:36
  Speaker 2: I personally also have a huge problem with the judge.
• 2:39:42
  Speaker 2: I believe the judge should have given more weight to
• 2:39:45
  Speaker 2: the concerns raised about the you know from the jury.
• 2:39:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, especially the fact that the jurors from the
• 2:39:53
  Speaker 2: first trial were present at the second is known for me, but.
• 2:39:58
  Speaker 1: They weren't allowed to mention the first trial exactly girls
• 2:40:01
  Speaker 1: could sit.
• 2:40:02
  Speaker 2: There, but yet then they also knew.
• 2:40:07
  Speaker 1: Girl.
• 2:40:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, I just.
• 2:40:11
  Speaker 1: That to me.
• 2:40:13
  Speaker 2: Should have been carefully considered by the judge. Okay, but
• 2:40:22
  Speaker 2: I am also pissed off about the way investigators the
• 2:40:28
  Speaker 2: DA Office went after a mentally handicapped person to get
• 2:40:36
  Speaker 2: an easy win. Yep, I feel it is once again
• 2:40:43
  Speaker 2: another slash on our system. Now, if I would have
• 2:40:50
  Speaker 2: seen or heard evidence from all of the documents we
• 2:40:53
  Speaker 2: went through the court stuff saying there was true evidence,
• 2:41:00
  Speaker 2: his confession was total bullshit. None of it could be
• 2:41:06
  Speaker 2: proven legitimate. How you can be convicted with no evidence
• 2:41:12
  Speaker 2: but your words. I could tell you I killed a man.
• 2:41:19
  Speaker 1: Yesterday, doesn't mean it happens, doesn't.
• 2:41:24
  Speaker 2: Mean it fucking happened. It maybe happened in my mind exactly.
• 2:41:29
  Speaker 2: There's no evidence, Hi, Kelly. I also have a problem
• 2:41:33
  Speaker 2: that he was questioned for more than twenty four hours straight.
• 2:41:37
  Speaker 2: That is whatever the dark side place is called. That
• 2:41:43
  Speaker 2: we take terrorists to guantanamobey, that's guantanamobey shit to me.
• 2:41:50
  Speaker 2: Twenty four hours questioning someone who's not under arrest. You
• 2:41:56
  Speaker 2: picked up and they voluntarily came with you. They're mentally challenged,
• 2:42:01
  Speaker 2: they don't understand. They can say, hey, could I get
• 2:42:04
  Speaker 2: a ride home?
• 2:42:05
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm yeah.
• 2:42:08
  Speaker 2: I let's also throw in the fact that he was
• 2:42:11
  Speaker 2: on pain medication.
• 2:42:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, And this is a modern day like the nineteen
• 2:42:19
  Speaker 1: seventy nine cops, like, yeah, this piss up a lot
• 2:42:21
  Speaker 1: of shit, Okay, But in twenty twelve. All these mofos
• 2:42:27
  Speaker 1: knew better, all of them. I don't want to hear
• 2:42:29
  Speaker 1: their dumbas excuses.
• 2:42:30
  Speaker 2: You know, it was nineteen seventy nine. I would be
• 2:42:33
  Speaker 2: so forgiving.
• 2:42:35
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't be that forgiving.
• 2:42:36
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, let me rephrase it. I'd be kind and
• 2:42:40
  Speaker 2: hope they learned their lesson. Okay, a lot of.
• 2:42:43
  Speaker 1: A lot of good did. It's horrible to say that,
• 2:42:47
  Speaker 1: but if he didn't seem to learn a lesson, though there.
• 2:42:50
  Speaker 2: A lesson is being learned. But considering they haven't jumped
• 2:42:55
  Speaker 2: up and said we are not prosecuting him again, tells
• 2:42:59
  Speaker 2: me they haven't learned their lesson, because why look at
• 2:43:06
  Speaker 2: Karen Reid after that first trial, they should have said done,
• 2:43:11
  Speaker 2: I'm walking away. They need to do the same damn
• 2:43:14
  Speaker 2: thing with Pedro.
• 2:43:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So.
• 2:43:22
  Speaker 2: I also have a problem with Ramos. You should have
• 2:43:24
  Speaker 2: been investigated more. And I bet you there is a
• 2:43:29
  Speaker 2: whole lot more that that man is done that we
• 2:43:33
  Speaker 2: don't know about.
• 2:43:34
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure, for sure.
• 2:43:38
  Speaker 2: But most importantly, at the end of the day, my
• 2:43:42
  Speaker 2: thoughts are with Aton's family because unfortunately they are being
• 2:43:49
  Speaker 2: re victimized over and over. Guys in nineteen seventy nine,
• 2:43:54
  Speaker 2: I was nine years old. I am fifty five fucking
• 2:43:59
  Speaker 2: years old this year. Think about that they are still
• 2:44:04
  Speaker 2: being traumatized to this day over this ship, and that
• 2:44:12
  Speaker 2: is injustice across the board.
• 2:44:15
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure it is very difficult for them to
• 2:44:18
  Speaker 1: hear opinions like mine, and I'm sorry. The people should
• 2:44:26
  Speaker 1: have done a better job. I don't know. I don't know,
• 2:44:30
  Speaker 1: and I do hate this for them. I hate this
• 2:44:32
  Speaker 1: for them so freaking much.
• 2:44:35
  Speaker 2: I do, and.
• 2:44:41
  Speaker 1: It's very frustrating. It is, but news exactly. Don't let
• 2:44:48
  Speaker 1: this case go in the shadows when it starts happening.
• 2:44:51
  Speaker 1: Keep an eye out, put it on social media, get
• 2:44:54
  Speaker 1: people to put it out there, to cover this, because
• 2:44:58
  Speaker 1: that's also just as for Aton. Okay, if we unravel
• 2:45:03
  Speaker 1: this whole new trial and that's exactly what happened, justice okay,
• 2:45:09
  Speaker 1: But if it's not what happened, also justice for Pedro.
• 2:45:13
  Speaker 1: And it's hard concept to understand, but it's also justice
• 2:45:17
  Speaker 1: for Aton two.
• 2:45:18
  Speaker 2: It is because I am sure Aton's family, if it
• 2:45:23
  Speaker 2: has proven that Pedro didn't do this, they would not
• 2:45:28
  Speaker 2: want someone else to be.
• 2:45:30
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't believe that they would be a
• 2:45:32
  Speaker 1: victim I.
• 2:45:33
  Speaker 2: Don't believe that. Unfortunately, I don't think until there is
• 2:45:38
  Speaker 2: scientific proof, they will ever get the answer.
• 2:45:42
  Speaker 1: They doesn't, and I can't judge them for that. I
• 2:45:44
  Speaker 1: can't either bullshit that people have fed them over the years.
• 2:45:49
  Speaker 2: I would look at this is just a small piece.
• 2:45:53
  Speaker 2: I look at the stories back in my twenties when
• 2:45:55
  Speaker 2: you're dating and stuff, the gas lighting, the lies you
• 2:46:00
  Speaker 2: just because you wanted to believe that your husband wasn't eating.
• 2:46:04
  Speaker 2: Of course, can you imagine what you would believe after
• 2:46:07
  Speaker 2: your child went missing? You could sell me lakefront property
• 2:46:13
  Speaker 2: in Arizona. As George Strait would say. Yeah, so I'm
• 2:46:18
  Speaker 2: glad you're covering this case when it comes to fruition,
• 2:46:23
  Speaker 2: and we will do a big wrap up.
• 2:46:26
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, Yes, let's wrap up the show. We've been
• 2:46:29
  Speaker 1: here so long. I know we one you guys boys room,
• 2:46:33
  Speaker 1: I know we did more on y'all. It was gonna
• 2:46:35
  Speaker 1: be a long one. So with that, let's wrap up
• 2:46:41
  Speaker 1: the shows. Which apparently man's that we're gonna be having
• 2:46:46
  Speaker 1: somebody join us.
• 2:46:47
  Speaker 2: Oh I just saw that, I know.
• 2:46:50
  Speaker 1: Right, like I don't know, Oh my gosh, it's an a.
• 2:46:55
  Speaker 2: Miss say it is amos, not a miss what it.
• 2:47:01
  Speaker 3: Is, hiauty, I came on to make a little announcement
• 2:47:07
  Speaker 3: of my own. Uh, neither one of you know about this.
• 2:47:14
  Speaker 2: So shit, I got fired.
• 2:47:17
  Speaker 3: No, it's just you know, our special Lama is having
• 2:47:25
  Speaker 3: a birthday coming up, Oh.
• 2:47:27
  Speaker 1: Jesus, twenty seventh.
• 2:47:32
  Speaker 3: And I want to uh make sure where why isn't
• 2:47:36
  Speaker 3: it showing? And there it is? Oh?
• 2:47:42
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 2:47:43
  Speaker 3: So I wanted to ask all of our viewers if
• 2:47:45
  Speaker 3: they had a special message to send into our lovely
• 2:47:49
  Speaker 3: Lama for her birthday set up, to email it to
• 2:47:53
  Speaker 3: me or send me a DM and discord and we'll
• 2:47:58
  Speaker 3: share your message with her as a surprise on a
• 2:48:02
  Speaker 3: future show.
• 2:48:03
  Speaker 2: And if you have screenshots or pictures for anywhere, please
• 2:48:09
  Speaker 2: share those elbow feet.
• 2:48:11
  Speaker 1: We are expecting photos. It's true. It will be my
• 2:48:16
  Speaker 1: fortieth birthday.
• 2:48:18
  Speaker 2: It is. It is the Big Four. Oh it is
• 2:48:22
  Speaker 2: it is. And I believe we have a show the night.
• 2:48:27
  Speaker 1: Before your birthday. That's true, it will Yeah, Joe, please
• 2:48:34
  Speaker 1: please some of your thoughts Shoe Gwinn didn't forget about you,
• 2:48:39
  Speaker 1: our girl, Gwenn. Well, that is so kind. Yep, love
• 2:48:47
  Speaker 1: for you.
• 2:48:48
  Speaker 3: My first time ever nighttime appearance on True Crime li time.
• 2:48:52
  Speaker 1: Just for our mama. Yeah, that's our lovely producer Amos. Yes,
• 2:48:59
  Speaker 1: all I wanted to come on and say, well, thank you.
• 2:49:02
  Speaker 1: I guess we'll see what birthday messages. Wait, I got
• 2:49:08
  Speaker 1: you last year.
• 2:49:09
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna get you this.
• 2:49:10
  Speaker 1: That's true, you did. You got me freaking Lisa Wilman
• 2:49:14
  Speaker 1: over in Wales. My gosh, there's some special stuff.
• 2:49:19
  Speaker 3: I gotta get used to looking at the camera if
• 2:49:21
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be on the show.
• 2:49:22
  Speaker 1: I know, right, speaking of I think you should stick
• 2:49:25
  Speaker 1: around while we wrap it up. Don't go anywhere, all right.
• 2:49:28
  Speaker 1: You're gonna get some practice because you're gonna need it,
• 2:49:31
  Speaker 1: all right. All right, well you guys before we go.
• 2:49:36
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• 2:49:39
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• 2:49:56
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• 2:49:59
  Speaker 2: So do that, guys. Next week I am be odd
• 2:50:04
  Speaker 2: excited And that's weird because next week on True crime
• 2:50:09
  Speaker 2: and wine time. We will be covering the Aaron Patterson
• 2:50:13
  Speaker 2: what is known is the Legata mushroom murders. Okay, guys, Yes,
• 2:50:21
  Speaker 2: it's going to be an adventure and I am so
• 2:50:27
  Speaker 2: freaking excited about it because I will be going mushroom
• 2:50:31
  Speaker 2: hunting in Finland in just a couple of weeks, which
• 2:50:35
  Speaker 2: I did last year in the year before, and I
• 2:50:38
  Speaker 2: am so excited to take my knowledge from what I
• 2:50:41
  Speaker 2: learned next week to make sure I don't pick the
• 2:50:44
  Speaker 2: wrong mushroom.
• 2:50:47
  Speaker 1: Well, interestingly, this went to trial literally when Karen Reid
• 2:50:53
  Speaker 1: started and I was like, oh, I just heard of it.
• 2:50:57
  Speaker 1: I wanted to cover it, but obviously Karen Read just
• 2:50:59
  Speaker 1: over shadowed everything. Her trail didn't even wrap up until
• 2:51:02
  Speaker 1: after Read was over. It was a big deal. It's
• 2:51:06
  Speaker 1: a big deal, so do not yes, don't go eat
• 2:51:09
  Speaker 1: in mushrooms speech.
• 2:51:10
  Speaker 2: I go with people who know. They pointed out, and
• 2:51:14
  Speaker 2: we took it back to the resort, the hotel, and
• 2:51:17
  Speaker 2: we gave it to the chef there to cook.
• 2:51:20
  Speaker 1: Some her closings were a week they were a week long. Wow. Wow, Okay,
• 2:51:30
  Speaker 1: I can't wait. I don't I only know it's not
• 2:51:32
  Speaker 1: the United States opening statements and maybe like the first
• 2:51:35
  Speaker 1: day or two of trials. So I mean, I get
• 2:51:37
  Speaker 1: the gist, but all the details I don't know. So
• 2:51:40
  Speaker 1: I'm very excited to study up on this and bring
• 2:51:43
  Speaker 1: this next Thursday eight pm Eastern seven pm. Now, if
• 2:51:48
  Speaker 1: you need more of Terry, True Crime and I, you
• 2:51:50
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• 2:51:57
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• 2:52:01
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• 2:52:05
  Speaker 1: other shows they've heard this, but our true crime fans
• 2:52:08
  Speaker 1: may not have. Mark your calendars for Monday, September fifteenth,
• 2:52:15
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• 2:52:22
  Speaker 1: for our new merch and membership launch party. We have
• 2:52:25
  Speaker 1: been working behind the scenes, these little little ladies, putting
• 2:52:30
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• 2:52:33
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• 2:52:36
  Speaker 1: I know I'm personally going to be ordering a bunch. Basically,
• 2:52:39
  Speaker 1: I made a bunch of stuff of like what would
• 2:52:40
  Speaker 1: I want to buy that.
• 2:52:42
  Speaker 2: Six say Lama basically made stuff and she said, hey,
• 2:52:45
  Speaker 2: you're gonna want to order this. You're gonna want to
• 2:52:47
  Speaker 2: order that you want to order this. I'm like, okay,
• 2:52:50
  Speaker 2: I'm have to get a job because.
• 2:52:52
  Speaker 1: There's a convenient.
• 2:52:55
  Speaker 3: Birthdays.
• 2:52:57
  Speaker 2: That's true, Naked, That's why they did it.
• 2:53:04
  Speaker 1: But now not only are we doing merch, but as
• 2:53:07
  Speaker 1: our members, it's because of you guys and your support
• 2:53:10
  Speaker 1: that we're able to keep the lights on over here
• 2:53:12
  Speaker 1: and do what we love. We will be announcing our
• 2:53:16
  Speaker 1: six new membership tiers that I can promise you have
• 2:53:21
  Speaker 1: more perks than many of the other creators we've looked at,
• 2:53:25
  Speaker 1: and by being a member of our YouTube channel, you
• 2:53:29
  Speaker 1: will get your money's worth by investing in us. Do
• 2:53:33
  Speaker 1: we have merch with aj on it? Oh? Yeah, I
• 2:53:36
  Speaker 1: better have friendship bracelets.
• 2:53:39
  Speaker 2: I to say, I Kelly, I am going to have
• 2:53:43
  Speaker 2: to talk to Lama because I just got an idea
• 2:53:48
  Speaker 2: of a merch we could possibly do with it.
• 2:53:50
  Speaker 1: Oh oh I love that. Well. I was going to
• 2:53:54
  Speaker 1: do the next part, but Amos, would you like to
• 2:53:57
  Speaker 1: go Oh no, no, no, you're not ready for I'm
• 2:53:59
  Speaker 1: not ready that You're not ready for that. But Amos
• 2:54:02
  Speaker 1: is going to be making appearance because the only thing
• 2:54:05
  Speaker 1: we can't talk about and I'll allowed to talk about
• 2:54:08
  Speaker 1: because I can't guess spoilers about too Much is that
• 2:54:11
  Speaker 1: our new show TMI Too Much Internet will start airing
• 2:54:15
  Speaker 1: every Friday night Live at nine pm Eastern eight pm
• 2:54:19
  Speaker 1: Central on Friday September nineteenth for all members and then
• 2:54:24
  Speaker 1: the first Friday of every month for non members. You guys.
• 2:54:28
  Speaker 1: TMI is a show where our team of brave chronically
• 2:54:32
  Speaker 1: online hosts have curated the best weekly roundup of the strangest,
• 2:54:37
  Speaker 1: funniest and most confusing things that have happened on the Internet.
• 2:54:42
  Speaker 1: So it's going to be a good time. And well,
• 2:54:45
  Speaker 1: Amos may be joining us for the first show probably,
• 2:54:48
  Speaker 1: but you know who else is joining so far with
• 2:54:51
  Speaker 1: me and Terry elbow feet. That's right, elbow feet, the
• 2:54:56
  Speaker 1: man you guys hear about all the time to join us.
• 2:54:59
  Speaker 2: For our me with his face, no elbows and no feet.
• 2:55:04
  Speaker 1: Well, I make no promises, it is elbow feet.
• 2:55:08
  Speaker 2: It is elbow feet. But what I love about it
• 2:55:13
  Speaker 2: every week you have different hosts. You're not gonna have
• 2:55:17
  Speaker 2: to just look at me a lama.
• 2:55:20
  Speaker 1: I know, right, you guys got to get tired of me. Sometimes,
• 2:55:23
  Speaker 1: y'all got to get tired.
• 2:55:24
  Speaker 2: Of us and our voices. There's going to be there's
• 2:55:28
  Speaker 2: gonna be a whole lot of TMI on TMI.
• 2:55:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's very true, and that's.
• 2:55:34
  Speaker 2: What we do need to have a disclaimer for when
• 2:55:37
  Speaker 2: Elbow feeds on that we are not responsible for anything
• 2:55:40
  Speaker 2: he says or anyone he of fence.
• 2:55:43
  Speaker 1: That's true. Good thing is is we can like mute
• 2:55:45
  Speaker 1: him and went out. He just take him off and
• 2:55:48
  Speaker 1: we just don't see anything. He won't even know. Nobody
• 2:55:52
  Speaker 1: keep his secret. I'm just kidding. No, it's going to
• 2:55:55
  Speaker 1: you know, right, all right? Is there anything you want
• 2:55:59
  Speaker 1: to say say before we go or sign up? Terry?
• 2:56:03
  Speaker 2: I do. I always want to thank all of you
• 2:56:07
  Speaker 2: guys for joining because guess what, even those that are
• 2:56:11
  Speaker 2: listening later, Without you guys, we would just be talking
• 2:56:17
  Speaker 2: to ourselves and then we would be answering ourselves and
• 2:56:21
  Speaker 2: then our other partner, our partners would have us committed.
• 2:56:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, it would be a lot.
• 2:56:29
  Speaker 2: So it's great and I have to tell you guys,
• 2:56:33
  Speaker 2: being back has been amazing, and I'm also very sad.
• 2:56:37
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna be going on a trip soon because I
• 2:56:39
  Speaker 2: just got back. I know, I am like trying to
• 2:56:44
  Speaker 2: figure out I may be taking a portable microphone with
• 2:56:48
  Speaker 2: me just in case I'm up in the middle of
• 2:56:51
  Speaker 2: the night to jump on and join. You should because
• 2:56:54
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I can go without.
• 2:56:57
  Speaker 1: This group again. I mean, I need live videos of Finland, so.
• 2:57:01
  Speaker 2: Josh, I could do my videos.
• 2:57:03
  Speaker 1: Strap a GoPro to your head, okay and give us
• 2:57:07
  Speaker 1: that I'm not sure at the.
• 2:57:08
  Speaker 2: Top of my head as well, do it, but yeah,
• 2:57:12
  Speaker 2: so I will stream from there. It's just so right
• 2:57:15
  Speaker 2: now in Finland it is six am.
• 2:57:18
  Speaker 1: So see it's fine.
• 2:57:20
  Speaker 2: So but it will always be there for the replay crew.
• 2:57:23
  Speaker 2: So I just want to say thank you guys, and
• 2:57:26
  Speaker 2: as always, please stay safe, watch out for bad people,
• 2:57:33
  Speaker 2: and enjoy your wine time because it helps us deal
• 2:57:37
  Speaker 2: with all of that shit in the world.
• 2:57:41
  Speaker 1: Thank you all everyone for listening and supporting us. Until
• 2:57:45
  Speaker 1: next time, take care of your mind, take care of
• 2:57:48
  Speaker 1: each other, and never stop asking the hard questions or
• 2:57:52
  Speaker 1: calling people out the bullshit. Now he needs his own
• 2:57:57
  Speaker 1: sugar command. Yes, all right, guys. Now, as we always say,
• 2:58:02
  Speaker 1: I say, whatever we all do, we all know how
• 2:58:04
  Speaker 1: it goes by now go forth and be amazing all right,
• 2:58:09
  Speaker 1: bye guy m hm.