Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Matt Winn's Three-Things-Right Philosophy: Great Food, Service & Atmosphere

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Matt Winn's Three-Things-Right Philosophy: Great Food, Service & Atmosphere · The Inspired Stories Podcast

0:04
Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories podcast,
0:08
where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from
0:11
their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome
0:14
adversity. My name is Anthony Kotaspodi,
0:16
and today's guest is Matt Nguyen.
0:19
He is a partner and the Chief Development Officer of Maple
0:22
Hospitality Group, A company founded in 2015 to redefine
0:27
hospitality through unique dining experiences.
0:31
Maple Hospitality operates luxury restaurants like Maple
0:35
and Ash, Monarch and Kasaku, delivering exceptional meals in
0:39
vibrant settings. Under the Matthew's direction,
0:42
they became a national leader and earned recognition for their
0:45
innovative approach. He guided the group's expansion
0:49
from a single restaurant to a top performer in hospitality,
0:52
ensuring consistent quality at every step.
0:55
Matthew also Co founded and is the CEO of Arrive, which makes
1:00
business meetings better. They leveraged 3 distinct
1:03
elements in their approach to make meetings more engaging and
1:06
effective, and we'll learn more about that today.
1:09
He previously served as the Global Retail COO at Cushman and
1:14
Wakefield and Ocean Properties, guiding operations and strategy
1:18
in the real estate and hospitality fields.
1:21
Matthew has lectured at Harvard University's Graduate School of
1:24
Design and other top institutions, sharing insights
1:28
on leadership and growth. Now before we get into all that
1:32
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AD back benefits.com. All right, back to our guest
2:16
today, Partner and chief development officer at Maple and
2:19
Co founder and CEO at arrived Matt Went.
2:22
Thanks for making the time to Share your story today.
2:25
Anthony, thank you so much for this opportunity.
2:28
I'm very excited for our conversation today.
2:30
All right, let's jump right in. So, Matt, you've got a pretty
2:33
storied business career that for the most part, has woven
2:38
together real estate and finance.
2:41
But your undergraduate degree was in art and architectural
2:45
history. How did you first find your way
2:48
into this finance real estate? Combo.
2:51
Well, you know, Anthony, I think unlike maybe many of the people
2:55
that have been on, I'm going to start by talking about a failure
2:58
that I learned a life lesson from, which is I really wanted
3:02
to be an architect when I was in school, but the labor of
3:06
creation was much bigger than my ability to create.
3:11
And so I had to pivot. I loved the idea of the built
3:16
environment. I've always loved sort of being
3:18
in cities and walking around and seeing how people use space.
3:23
And so that led me to this career in art and architectural
3:27
history, which actually got me my first job.
3:33
I was talking to a man at an art opening.
3:37
We were discussing a painting. He said, I love the way you
3:39
walked me through that. I'm going to hire you.
3:42
And, you know, amazingly savvy kid that I was, I looked at him
3:47
and I said, that's fabulous. What are you going to hire me
3:50
for? Because I have a degree in art
3:52
and architectural history. I'm not sure I'm trained for it.
3:55
And it turned out he was the head of the mortgage finance
4:01
group at Prudential. And my job was to go with all of
4:07
these people who are looking at the numbers.
4:09
I graduated in the early 90s when loans weren't doing very
4:14
well on the property side, and look at whether any of these
4:18
properties would be functionally obsolescent or what could you
4:21
make them into. And they taught me finance as I
4:24
went. So I was using sort of my skills
4:27
of observation and that idea of analyzing space in a new way for
4:33
me, and that's how I started my career.
4:36
So what did this gentleman see in you as you were walking him
4:39
through this art piece that was like, oh, this guy be really
4:43
good in a finance role. I think maybe he saw that I
4:47
didn't have training, and so he always joked with me that the
4:52
good thing was I didn't have any habits that I had to unlearn,
4:56
and he could mold my finance training and my ability to
5:00
analyze an investment in a way that was in his image.
5:08
And so it's so valuable to have a great mentor like that where
5:13
for whatever reason you click, you know it.
5:17
It's one of my favorite hiring practices, which is that
5:21
midnight in an airport rule. You know, if you're stuck at
5:25
midnight in an airport, do you want to be talking to this
5:28
person? If the answer is yes, you should
5:30
probably hire them. Interesting.
5:33
So as I think about this, I think about art anyways, and I
5:37
think like right brain stuff. I think about finance, I think
5:40
like left brain stuff. But clearly there was a
5:43
crossover that ended up making a lot of sense in working in the
5:48
way that your brain operates. Well, and I think for all of us
5:53
who grew up in property and in any venture that deals in real
5:59
life, that's part of it, right? You're, you have to deal at a
6:04
human scale. It's not just numbers on a
6:06
spreadsheet. I'm, I'm not, I didn't grow up
6:11
as an accountant. I'm, I'm a numbers oriented
6:15
person, but I'm not necessarily an only numbers person, right?
6:20
You've got to be able to address when you're doing a physical
6:23
product, the people who use it. And so that first stop along the
6:29
way, which group was that? That was Prudential and so so I
6:35
went from there. And then I was going to go back
6:37
to Business School. And, you know, you're going to
6:41
get a sense that I, I can talk by way into things, but I was
6:45
doing a practice interview because I hadn't interviewed in
6:48
five years. And you had to do interviews for
6:50
Business School. So I go and I answer an ad.
6:56
This is back when you did classified ads in the newspaper.
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I was working in New Jersey, so I answered an ad in Connecticut
7:02
figuring that, you know, there would be no crossover and they
7:06
wouldn't see that I was looking or looking to go back to school.
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And I'm in this little place and this guy walks through and he's
7:15
got his dry cleaning slung over his shoulder.
7:19
And, you know, it doesn't, the interview had no pressure.
7:23
So I say to the person I'm interviewing as he walks
7:26
through, you know, I just want to work somewhere where you work
7:28
so hard you don't have time to do your dry cleaning.
7:32
And this guy stops dead in his tracks, right?
7:36
And he looks at the woman I'm interviewing with and he goes,
7:41
hey, when you're done, send him to my office.
7:43
And, you know, as a kid in his 20s, you've just been called
7:48
into the principal's office. So I kind of sheepishly walk in
7:51
and he says, well, who are you and what are you doing here?
7:54
And I say, well, I, you know, I was interviewing for an analyst
7:59
role. And, you know, I was just
8:03
exploring it to see if it was the right fit.
8:06
And he says, OK. And he goes, what happens if you
8:10
don't do this? I say, well, really, I I'm going
8:12
to go back to Business School and this was just practice.
8:15
And he goes, you could do that or I'll personally mentor you
8:19
for the next two years. That that man was named Jeff
8:23
Rosenthal. He was the chief operating
8:26
officer of a group at the time that not people had heard of,
8:31
but it certainly wasn't the sensation it is today called
8:34
Starwood Capital Group. And so I joined that company
8:39
when it was pretty young and got this amazing hands on experience
8:43
with somebody who remains a friend.
8:45
Time out. I mean, both of these encounters
8:49
that you're describing sound incredibly brief.
8:53
You know, over the course of minutes, I don't know, maybe an
8:56
hour or two. And in that time, both of these
9:01
successful gentlemen are like, I'm going to take you under my
9:04
wing. I don't know you.
9:06
We haven't met before. But there's something in this
9:08
very brief interaction that says, all right, Matt, come with
9:12
me. I'm going to teach you a few
9:13
things. Is this for real?
9:17
Better lucky than good. Totally.
9:18
For real, couldn't couldn't make it up if I tried.
9:23
Is that how all of your jobs have come about?
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Do you have any more of those crazy stories?
9:30
I got plenty of crazy stories, Anthony, like how many hours do
9:33
we have? Look, you know, I've been lucky
9:36
enough. So, you know, from there, just
9:40
to give you a sense of of how crazy these stories can get, you
9:43
know, I ended up having a consulting practice that got
9:46
folded into Cushman and Wakefield where I LED a team of
9:50
1200 people in 40 countries on five continents.
9:55
And you know, I'm sad to say I'm a 2 million Miller on Delta
10:01
with, you know, almost as as much combined on all the other
10:05
airlines. I got stories all day.
10:13
OK. So start with Capital Group.
10:16
Biggest lesson you pulled away from there?
10:20
Dig deeper you can. You can always learn more and
10:25
you can never do enough underwriting for the challenges
10:30
that you face if you're trying to grow a business.
10:34
Say more about that. You can never do enough
10:36
underwriting. So look, we make bets.
10:41
You know, the most important thing that you learn when you're
10:44
dealing in private equity is you make all your money on the buy
10:49
and then timing right on the sale and so and on the in
10:55
between. It's you're just holding on for
10:59
dear life and doing everything that you can to make sure your
11:02
bet comes through. Especially in those days before
11:08
private equity guys were really Co GPS.
11:11
You're counting on your operators and, and you're and
11:16
the partners to sort of do what they say, but you're really
11:20
making momentum and market bets. And so asking the right
11:26
questions of them is the most important thing you can do.
11:30
And not just taking their answers for granted, but working
11:35
with them for what's the real route and what does it really
11:37
be. Do you have a couple of go to
11:42
questions that you find really help to get to the story beneath
11:46
the story? Well, you know, I think I'm
11:51
learning, but one of my favorite things that I like to say to
11:54
folks as a first question for almost anything is what would
11:59
you do? Because at least then you can
12:03
get to their motivation and understand where they're coming
12:06
from. And I also hope that I've been
12:11
able to empower people that I work with in the same way that I
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was empowered by. We were talking about all my
12:18
great mentors at the beginning of my career, the same way they
12:21
empowered me. It's easy to tell, but you know,
12:27
businesses are like children. You birth them into the world
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and they each have their own personalities.
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And you've got to make the most of what those personalities are,
12:40
play to their strengths, and work around their weaknesses.
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So I want to Fast forward a bit because I know we could spend
12:48
quite a bit of time digging into some interesting stories at
12:51
multiple stops for you along the way, which are very impressive.
12:55
But how did the opportunity to join the Maple Hospitality Group
12:59
come about? Well, so one of the things you
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know, that I, I hope I've been able to do my career is to build
13:09
lasting relationships. And I do believe I can call
13:12
almost everybody that I've ever had the chance to work with.
13:17
Maple Hospitality is actually one of those stories.
13:20
When I was at Cushman and Wakefield, I was running a team
13:27
and we were expanding A nascent hotel brand called Elysian
13:33
Hotels. And the goal of that was to
13:37
create sort of an entry level experience at the Peninsula
13:42
level and become sort of a boutique luxury brand.
13:48
And this was 2009. So the first one opened in 2010.
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And right in the middle of the great financial crisis, exact
13:57
wrong time. You know, another great lesson
14:00
learned. But we had there head of
14:05
development, had a desk in my office and literally could say
14:09
I'm going to Brazil tomorrow. Can you call the head of the
14:12
Brazil office at Cushman and get me a tour of XYZ?
14:17
And we would make that happen. Those partners are the partners
14:23
that created Maple and Ash. My partner Danny won two
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Michelin stars in that hotel dining room called Ria.
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And so that lasting relationship 10 years later kind of came
14:36
around, and now we've been able to create this other global
14:39
sensation called Maple and Ash that celebrated its 10th
14:43
anniversary in Chicago last week.
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So what was the state of the restaurant group when they
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tapped you on the shoulder and asked you to join them?
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And yeah, tell us a little bit about where you are today.
14:57
Yeah. So one it, when I got involved
15:00
with Maple and Ash, there was 1 of the restaurants, just one.
15:07
And they said, you know, gosh, it seems to be going well.
15:12
Let's talk about how we make this into something.
15:17
What's the strategy for expansion, right.
15:19
I've been lucky enough to work with brands from Apple and
15:22
Abercrombie all the way to Zara and kind of every level of the
15:25
alphabet in between all over the world at this point.
15:29
And I said to them, well, it's pretty simple for a luxury brand
15:32
which is open the New York Times Magazine on Sunday and look at
15:36
the bottom of every one of those brands and where, what cities
15:40
are they at? Those are the targets.
15:44
And ironically then the first one that we opened was
15:48
Scottsdale, AZ. So people go, well, how did you
15:51
get to Scottsdale? Like that's not usually and
15:54
especially not pre pandemic. That really wasn't on
15:58
everybody's list. The answer was there was some
16:02
certainty there from a business risk perspective.
16:06
We had the same meat provider. You have a lot of people who
16:10
winter in Scottsdale who live in Chicago.
16:14
So we had sort of a built in audience and you know, we always
16:20
joked that the market wasn't that sophisticated so that if it
16:22
didn't work out, you just say, well, the market wasn't
16:24
sophisticated enough, close it and no one would notice.
16:27
Blame it on the market. Right, exactly.
16:31
You know that restaurant, since its opening in 2019, has been
16:35
the top roasting restaurant in the state of Arizona.
16:39
Wow, what did you guys get so right there?
16:44
Well, great question and I can't take credit for it, right?
16:48
My again, Danny, my partner who's the chef and Jim who's got
16:53
a lot of more restaurant experience than I will ever
16:55
have, have created this amazing operating entity there.
17:01
It's a simple business, Anthony. You have to do three things,
17:04
right? You have to provide great food,
17:08
great service in a nice atmosphere.
17:11
We believe that we do all three. You can see I'm, I'm sitting
17:17
here in Miami, you know, if I panned up, you would see there's
17:21
this sort of upside down palm frond.
17:24
That's the chandelier in this place, right?
17:27
So we try to, we try to make it local.
17:31
And for a lot of people who don't know us, they believe that
17:35
their restaurant is the only one because it is their local place
17:39
to celebrate. So you didn't really have any
17:43
restaurant experience before coming into the Maple Group?
17:47
Not direct. I've never been in house with a
17:50
restaurant brand and so I've worked on the real estate side
17:55
with multiple brands at multiple levels of restaurant.
17:59
But I am not an operator. I don't pretend to be so.
18:04
Really what they brought you in for was that real estate
18:06
experience. Help us find the locations.
18:09
Help us negotiate leases. Help U.S.
18:12
Open them. That's that's where we started,
18:14
right. And then you know, my role has
18:18
evolved. I think within the partnership.
18:21
We always say we've gone from a restaurant to a business and now
18:25
we're trying to create an enduring company.
18:29
And given my experience at large enduring companies like
18:35
Prudential, like Starwood Capital, like Cushman and
18:38
Wakefield, those corporate experiences have become really
18:43
important for us as we try to put structure and systems in
18:47
place. So sorry.
18:51
Remind me again, Matt. 10 locations.
18:53
So 10 restaurants, it's five locations, it's five cities.
18:58
So it's Chicago, Miami, Dallas, Scottsdale, Santa Barbara.
19:06
We operate the top grossing restaurant in Chicago, Dallas
19:10
and Arizona. That's.
19:13
Incredible. Yeah, OK, so so.
19:16
Yeah, we're, we're, we're about to open two more.
19:18
So we're, we're starting an East Coast expansion.
19:20
We'll be opening restaurants in Boston and New York next year,
19:25
and hopefully we'll be taking it internationally sometime soon.
19:29
And the new ones on the East Coast, what moniker will they be
19:32
under? Maple and ash in Boston and New
19:36
York, TBD. OK, so today we've got Maple and
19:41
Ash Monarch 8 bar Marcella. Am I missing any Kasaku?
19:48
Kasaku we mentioned yeah in the intro.
19:51
And what is sort of the common thread that weaves between them?
19:58
Well, I think kind of like we talked about, right, you've got
20:00
to do these three great things first, which is your food
20:04
forward, right? Danny's food is the heart of
20:08
everything that we do. People talk about great service,
20:13
but but our team really embodies it.
20:16
You know, we hire people who can make special occasions even out
20:21
out of an everyday meal. So we want you to leave here
20:25
feeling like you got a big hug. And then, you know, like we were
20:30
saying that they're just beautiful spaces.
20:33
All of our designers, Karen Harold at Studio K, Simeoni
20:39
Diri, everybody who's done designs for us, really works
20:43
with us to make sure they embody the essence of the brands that
20:47
we want. A lot of people talk about great
20:51
service. I've got, you know, folks that
20:53
come on here in fast casual or quick service to talk about
20:57
great service and I believe them.
21:00
I believe that, you know, they really go, you know, as far as
21:02
they can to try to take care of their guests.
21:04
I have a feeling that the service that you guys provide is
21:08
maybe next level like like what I read about in the book
21:12
Unreasonable hospitality. Am am I on the right track?
21:15
And if so, is can you think of a, a story, an example that you
21:20
guys like to tell sort of folklore of, you know, what one
21:23
of your staff members did to just wow a guest?
21:26
Sure. So, so we could talk about one
21:29
that's become part of our corporate culture.
21:32
So when we first opened the the way you order the tasting menu
21:37
at Maple and Ash, it's it's called IDGAF, which stands for
21:42
exactly what you think it is. You tell me whether you want me
21:45
to print out it or you want to bleep me out or whatever we're
21:47
doing. I don't give a fire truck.
21:50
That's there we go. Well, so we had a Captain Mason
21:57
in our original restaurant and he would write in marker Happy F
22:02
and birthday and hand you a menu.
22:06
That then became part of the culture.
22:09
So now we print menus for special occasions.
22:12
So like for my I did one for a friend the other day.
22:18
His fiance had just passed her medical exams.
22:22
And so we did a menu for her that said you're an effing Dr.
22:26
And we did one for him that said she's an effing Dr. So but that
22:33
little, little bit of just giving people a menu for
22:38
whatever their occasion is, graduation, wedding, you know,
22:43
just welcome to Scottsdale. All those things have sort of
22:48
built it into an Internet sensation and helped people
22:53
understand our level of hospitality.
22:57
It's it's within our culture, right?
22:59
So when you sit down, I'm, I'm sitting in the restaurant now,
23:02
right? We give you, I don't want to
23:04
give away all our secrets, but one of the things we do is
23:07
instead of doing and a moose Boo, shove a little bite, we do
23:11
a moose booze and give you a little cocktail.
23:14
Because the most awkward moment when you sit down for any meal
23:19
is waiting for that first drink. So if we can get that to you,
23:23
you're relaxed right away. And that's what we want.
23:26
We want you to be happy. This is a happy business.
23:31
So I'm looking at your website. Lots of beautiful restaurants
23:35
here. I mean, each just incredible in
23:38
their own right. But it strikes me that, Matt,
23:42
wouldn't it have been easier and maybe more financially efficient
23:47
if you guys picked 1 concept and replicated that?
23:54
Absolutely. I think that works for a lot of
23:56
people. For us, we really pride
24:00
ourselves. And if you look at fine dining
24:03
and those chefs who are, you know, Michelin starred like my
24:07
partner Danny is, we want to match the concept to the
24:12
location. So, you know, for example,
24:15
Monarch, we started talking with our partners there about a Maple
24:22
and ash, and it just wasn't the right location.
24:24
But there was this opportunity to develop this unique
24:28
restaurant that's on the 49th floor of a building in downtown
24:33
Dallas that needed to have its own identity.
24:38
Because Maple and ash, one of the things that our designs do
24:41
is they're almost like a tic Tac toe board.
24:44
And the way they're designed, all the energy gets moved into
24:47
the center square. And so we always say, you know,
24:50
we can tell if it's a good night.
24:52
If you see people taking pictures on their phones, it's a
24:56
great night. If you see them scrolling on
24:58
their phones, the team better jump in because it's an off
25:01
night. Monarch is actually quite the
25:04
opposite, which is it's all about the view.
25:08
And it's about having this dining experience where the view
25:12
becomes part of it, rather than that Maple and ash where the
25:16
view is what's happening inside the restaurant.
25:19
Is that what made that particular location not a good
25:23
fit for Maple and ash? Yes, I mean, it's, it's, you
25:27
know, I look at some of the other brands.
25:31
One of the things that my friend Jay Lasard at Abercrombie taught
25:35
me a long time ago is the way that you can sort of tear a
25:38
concept. So you know, Abercrombie and
25:41
Fitch was famous. There would only ever be one
25:44
Abercrombie and Fitch in a market way back when.
25:48
This is, this is pre pandemic, this is years and years ago, but
25:51
there could be 6 Hollisters. And so we sort of look at it the
25:55
same way, which is there is a flagship Maple and ash.
25:58
There will only ever really be one in a market.
26:02
We're not trying to make it so that they're everywhere, we're
26:06
trying to make it so that it's the right spot for you to come
26:09
and celebrate and it's a special experience.
26:12
And so maybe as part of the strategy of doing multiple
26:16
concepts is that you can put multiple restaurants into the
26:22
same metropolitan area so that you've got growth, but you're
26:26
not, it's still unique in that space that it's just the 1 Maple
26:30
and ash and, you know, Chicago, for example.
26:33
Right. So, you know, originally and
26:37
during the pandemics, if you look at the history of the
26:41
company, we had another partner and we were doing a different
26:49
level of experience called ETA, which was more of an everyday
26:53
brand where you could come 234 times a week and get it was
26:58
pizza, pasta, salads, small plates.
27:02
We ended up splitting the company apart and he took that.
27:05
There were twenty of those under development at one point.
27:08
And for example, in Chicago there were two that were open
27:11
and operating. So that was something that you
27:14
could scale and do multiples of. We're looking at different ways
27:19
to do that now as we look at what's happening with Eight Bar
27:23
and Kisaku in some of our smaller restaurants.
27:26
So what happened with that concept?
27:29
Well, so we ended up splitting up the partnership and our our
27:35
former partner took those restaurants, OK.
27:40
And so we've sort of gone on divergent paths.
27:44
When we when we did that, we really focused on again these
27:48
big restaurants and making big experiences.
27:51
And so now we're that we found our footing with that.
27:55
We're sort of looking at what's next.
27:58
So you join the company, there's one location you guys have grown
28:02
substantially. There's more growth along the
28:04
way. You know, in my experience, as
28:07
you kind of reach different tiers of growth, it's almost
28:11
like the infrastructure that you have in place needs to be broken
28:15
because it doesn't work anymore and you've got to put sort of
28:19
new scaffolding in place. And I see you kind of nodding
28:22
your head. Do you think back at what
28:25
different points in the past have you guys had to do that
28:28
there? I think at every point when you
28:31
go for, you know, restaurants are like children, 1 is like 2-2
28:36
is like 10. And so, you know, I think we had
28:41
to do it when we were in multiple locations because all
28:43
of a sudden you realize somebody can't be in every restaurant all
28:48
the time. And now when you get to a
28:51
footprint like ours where we're literally in every time zone in
28:54
the United States, you have to deal across those time zones and
28:59
have those systems in place. So we're in process always of
29:03
trying to improve those and improve our internal
29:06
communication to make sure the teams get what they need.
29:10
So for you then, has the journey been more this process of
29:14
tweaking and continuous improvement or have you had more
29:19
like big moments of wow, our structure right now just is not
29:24
working. We kind of have to set fire to
29:27
part of it and and start over again.
29:31
Look, we have no problem tearing things down and rebuilding them.
29:35
We're going through it right now.
29:37
In part as we look at sort of the next phase of our expansion,
29:40
we've realized that we have to almost start all over.
29:44
And so we, and that started from the top, what, what are the
29:48
roles that my partners and I are going to take on?
29:52
Who's running operations, who's running finance, who runs
29:55
strategy, right? There's sort of three things you
29:57
have to do as ACEO or a partner, which is set the right strategy,
30:04
hire the right people and make sure you don't run out of money.
30:09
If you can do that, you'll create an enduring business.
30:15
Oh, let's shift gears. Tell me about the Co founding of
30:20
Arrive. Where did the idea for this come
30:23
from? What's the problem that you're
30:24
aiming to solve? Sure.
30:28
So the genesis of that company came out of a group from Israel
30:35
called Meet in place that I was a consultant to pre pandemic
30:41
back when I was I think I had just left Cushman.
30:45
And what that what that company does is it makes businesses
30:53
better by making them more effective, engaging and
30:57
enjoyable. It does that with space, with
31:00
stewardship and with service. So and so the way that we look
31:12
at that and then there's this sort of added layer of science,
31:18
what what makes that business different than what you see out
31:22
there, whether it's Co working or groups like industrious and
31:26
Convene is their renting space and we are providing better
31:31
beatings. So on our board is a man named
31:34
Doctor Stephen Vogelberg. I cold called him if you see a
31:41
if you see a theme here after reading his book and said hi,
31:47
you know my Co founder and I are creating this business to rent
31:55
conference rooms and meeting rooms on demand.
31:59
We'd like to enlist your help. And that created a set of tools
32:06
called Sparks. And who is this person?
32:09
Why? Why were you calling to enlist
32:10
their health? So Steven Rogelberg literally
32:13
wrote the book on the science of meetings.
32:17
And so he's been with us sort of every step of the way of how do
32:22
you how do you take care of it? How do we make sure the way that
32:26
you did with me? Can you see me and hear me when
32:30
you log in? You know, what did, what are the
32:34
key questions that you want to answer and talk about today in a
32:38
meeting? How can we make this interaction
32:41
meaningful for you? And then we've got we, we've
32:45
essentially gamified it. So we've got a deck of cards for
32:49
different situations where you could play one, right?
32:52
So Anthony, you and I don't know each other.
32:54
So we might have opened this conversation with an icebreaker
32:58
that said something like, well, you know, Halloween just passed.
33:04
What did you want to dress up as when you were 10 years old?
33:11
And it's a way of sort of allowing people to share in a
33:18
unique manner and connect in a business setting in a way that's
33:21
really hard when more and more processes are being done
33:26
remotely and by AI. Meetings are the culture carrier
33:32
now for organizations and are more important than ever.
33:36
So I'm not coming to arrive and saying, hey, I just need a, a
33:42
conference room. You know, I, I, I'm going to
33:45
meet with the, you know, some potential clients and I'm going
33:48
to do a presentation. I'm coming there because maybe I
33:50
want to meet with my whole team and we're trying to brainstorm
33:54
new product ideas and you're going to help lead that meeting.
33:59
So we're not going to be in the room.
34:01
The space is yours. We're going to give you tools
34:04
that you can choose to use or not.
34:06
So in your rooms are notebooks that look like this one.
34:10
OK. And these cards that say, you
34:15
know, every meeting needs a spark.
34:17
Here are meeting sparks that will walk you through beginning,
34:21
middle and end. How do you have a better
34:23
meeting? You can choose to use those or
34:28
you can choose to just have your own meeting.
34:31
But even the spaces that we've designed and worked with our our
34:36
partners in that business on are better than the other things
34:41
that are on the market. So just starting at a baseline,
34:44
we're providing a premium product.
34:48
Interesting. So I'm looking at your website
34:49
here and the first picture that I see, it's a nice like, well
34:53
lit, airy space, good natural light, big windows, you know,
34:58
some greenery. Yeah.
35:01
It looks like the kind of place that I would want to have a
35:03
meeting. And then in addition, you're
35:06
providing people with these branded notebooks, you know,
35:09
something they can take their notes in and you've got these
35:12
cards that could kind of help break the ice and, you know, get
35:16
people a little bit comfortable, sort of like the what were you?
35:19
You held up that little cocktail glass.
35:21
The the first thing you want when people sit down is to avoid
35:24
that awkwardness of sort of the the first drink.
35:27
And it much in the same way in a meeting, like, there's sort of
35:30
like, like, who's going to talk first?
35:32
What are we going to talk about? And so, like, let's just be
35:35
silly and, you know, ask what costume you wanted to wear when
35:38
you were in 4th grade. Correct.
35:40
Not just not just that, because look, it's all about the people
35:43
in the end, but it's also understanding how the people use
35:46
the space. So one of the things that we do
35:49
that's pretty unique, we have a coffee machine that's in the
35:52
room because what happens inevitably is right.
35:56
You and I start talking and three minutes later, Anthony,
35:58
somebody looks at you and they go, oh, wait, I forgot to get my
36:01
coffee. I'll be right back.
36:03
The the flow of the meeting is completely broken.
36:06
Then for the time that person is out of the room and then when
36:10
they come back in because you have to catch them up.
36:13
So it's Go. Ahead.
36:15
So I was going to say, it's just trying to think through how do
36:19
people, what's the goal, how do people use it and then design a
36:25
product around it. So Doctor Steven Rogelberg,
36:30
right? That's the name of the gentleman
36:31
that is literally wrote the book on, you know, how to run
36:34
effective meetings. As you know, through your time
36:37
working with him, what was like the biggest like, knowledge bomb
36:41
he dropped on you? You're like, oh, that's really
36:44
good. Well, how about agendas don't
36:48
work? OK, say more.
36:51
So, you know, most people, they go well.
36:54
So just so we get a sense, meetings are a little bit like
36:59
drivers, right? Everybody thinks they can do it
37:02
effectively and 71% are considered ineffective by those
37:08
who attend. So it's kind of like driving
37:11
where 66% of the people think they're a better than average
37:15
driver somewhere that math doesn't work out.
37:20
But but just putting a structure up there doesn't necessarily
37:24
work because it one of the things he's taught us is
37:30
meetings are about answering questions.
37:34
So if it's just an update, it can probably be an e-mail.
37:38
If you're answering a key question that requires
37:41
discussion and sharing and communication.
37:46
And so that's why we start with not what's the agenda.
37:49
We start with what are the key questions for this meeting?
37:55
How many locations so far? One so far, we have this amazing
38:00
partnership with a group called Next Space.
38:03
So arrive at Next Space is in North Scottsdale, AZ.
38:08
And you know, what we were able to do was take a group that had
38:12
designed all of these spaces as showrooms to sell AV furniture,
38:20
carpeting, flooring. They've they've developed this,
38:23
this really cool partnership. But you know, if I'm being nice,
38:28
it was a meeting museum. If I'm being cool, it was a
38:31
meeting morgue. And so we've come in and
38:34
activated that space and you know to I think the credit of
38:42
both groups, both the design and then our service, we've got a
38:47
greater than 50% win rate for people that we've called for
38:52
meetings and a 39% return rate thanks to my partner data.
38:57
Yeah, it's amazing. She's done an amazing job of
39:00
locking in those operations. And so is this exclusively
39:05
meeting space? Does it have like Co working
39:08
space? Like somebody can have a desk
39:10
there? It's just this is where you come
39:11
to have your meeting and then you go.
39:13
Yes, we always say it's only meetings based on sites.
39:17
So it's just meeting space. You know, you could hold an
39:21
event there if if you wanted to give a lecture, we have space
39:26
where you could do that. And there is some social space.
39:31
There is a bar in this space, so there's a there's the
39:35
opportunity to socialize, but it's not Co working.
39:38
We don't rent desks out by the by the hour.
39:41
Or even offices. No, no, no, no.
39:45
So what's the growth plan? So what's the future?
39:48
Look like. Yeah, thanks for asking.
39:51
It's an amazing opportunity. I I feel like office is going
39:54
through what retail went through during the Great Recession,
39:58
which is you have all these people investing.
40:01
Without really knowing how people are going to use the
40:03
space. So 88% of office building owners
40:06
are investing in shared conference amenities.
40:11
We are talking to six different landlords right now about
40:16
activating those amenities the same way we've been able to do
40:19
in Phoenix so. We're going into an existing
40:24
place. It's not fully yours, but the
40:28
meeting space is something that you guys take.
40:30
Over and manage correct so you know they have all these shared
40:34
spaces that are underutilized. Our goal is to make that a
40:38
better experience both for the existing tenants in the building
40:42
and then to bring people out to the building.
40:44
So, you know, it's almost like the ping pong table was for a
40:48
little while in venture capital, right?
40:50
You had to have one to attract talent.
40:53
And I feel like people have done the same thing with meeting
40:55
rooms. It's our goal to make it not
40:59
just a marketing tool, but an actual sales and productive
41:04
revenue generating space. Yet the to my understanding, a
41:09
lot of the Co working spaces, yeah, Co working was kind of in
41:12
the process of like exploding pre pandemic and then it
41:17
completely imploded during the pandemic and a lot of them are
41:21
still struggling to come back. Many of them have shut down.
41:24
Is this kind of what you're describing like where the
41:26
opportunity is places like these Co working spaces like a Wework
41:30
and Industrious, they've got this underutilized space that
41:34
opens up an opportunity for you guys?
41:37
Yeah. I mean, look, they also manage
41:39
fractional space. And I don't want to belittle
41:43
anything that they're doing. This is really more what you
41:46
find is the office building owners who build out suites of
41:50
four to six larger conference room spaces that are for use by
41:54
the building. And so if you think about the
41:56
way that office is changing, 90% of people only want to come into
42:02
the office to meet. And so we want to provide the
42:07
best experience and give them a return on their meeting
42:11
investment, right? If, if your average executive
42:15
makes $500.00 an hour and you've got 10 of them in a room for an
42:22
hour, that's $50,000 of, of meeting space.
42:29
I do that right, $500.00 for an hour, sorry, that's $5000 an
42:33
hour. But we tend to do half and full
42:37
day meetings. And so when you start to look at
42:39
the return and what you're investing in, that meeting the
42:42
space is the least of it. So you want to make the most use
42:47
of that valuable talent and labor you've got in the room
42:50
when you can. Yes.
42:52
So let's shift gears again, Matt.
42:55
Life has its ups and downs, both personal life as well as
42:58
professional life. What's a big challenge that
43:02
you've overcome in your life? How did you get through that and
43:06
what did you learn coming out the other side?
43:09
Yeah, wow. It's a it's a great question.
43:13
First, first, I have to say first and foremost, before I
43:19
answer the question, one of the best decisions, the best
43:25
decision I ever made was the woman I married.
43:27
And you know, she has been by my side through the ups and downs
43:32
and I absolutely could not do it without my fabulous wife, Cher.
43:40
She's watched me reinvent myself, right?
43:43
So during the course of my career, as you highlighted, I've
43:48
done these different things. I started in sort of real estate
43:50
and finance. I thought I was going to be like
43:53
my own guy. I wanted to do it on my own.
43:56
So I went out and I had some friends that were selling a
44:00
business. And I said, you know what, I'm
44:04
just going to take it over. And I pretty quickly realized
44:07
that not only were they not my friends, but that they didn't
44:12
care and that we were never going to come to a deal that
44:17
made sense. And so I actually lost, you
44:24
know, a personal fortune doing that and almost had to start
44:28
over from Ground Zero. And I will forever be at my
44:34
wife's debt for hanging with me through that.
44:38
What I realized was, you know, it's one day at a time.
44:41
You pick yourself up, you figure out, OK, what do I have to get
44:44
done today? How am I going to, you know, get
44:48
on to next week and then build from there and know that you'll
44:52
be successful. That's what ended up in part
44:55
driving me to Cushman and Wakefield, which was a whole
44:58
nother phase of my career where I worked globally and in some
45:03
sense kind of propelled me to this, to this next phase.
45:07
So I've been through a couple of those in my life, none of them
45:11
as financially devastating, but opportunities where I really had
45:15
to reinvent myself. And so I tell people, don't be
45:18
scared. You know, we're we're done with
45:21
the days of you sign on at 22 to one company and you work there
45:27
for your entire life. I guess if you're lucky enough
45:30
to invent a business, you get to do that, but very few of us do.
45:35
So in this example, Matt, was there a single moment in time
45:41
when you suddenly realized that this is not working?
45:46
Or was it a gradual process of, oh, man, this is frustrating,
45:51
Things aren't going well. I'm not getting the full story,
45:54
but I'm going to keep going. I'm going to, you know, give
45:56
them the benefit of the doubt. I'm going to keep trying at
45:58
this. How did it unfold for you?
46:01
Yeah, no, I mean, it was literally I was sitting at a
46:03
negotiating table trying to get through a purchase and sale
46:07
agreement and realizing that the goal posts kept moving and that
46:11
we were never going to get to a deal.
46:14
And that the way that I'd structured is I tried to
46:18
structure and protect the downside where there was a hefty
46:21
breakup fee that would cover my expenses.
46:25
This group ended up being a little bit more litigious than
46:29
that. And so we ended up going to
46:31
litigation. And so then not only did I not
46:34
get that breakup fee, but I had to pay for all of those lawyers.
46:40
And that moment of realizing, like, wow, not only is this not
46:44
going to work, this is an absolute disaster.
46:48
And I remember looking at my lawyer and he was almost in
46:50
tears for me. And I thought, you know, this is
46:55
going to be tough. So where you lost your money was
46:59
in out of pocket on due diligence upfront as well as the
47:03
legal action on the back end to have to break everything up.
47:09
Right. I mean, look, you can't make
47:11
money without spending money, right?
47:15
My wife and I would be in a incredibly different place
47:18
financially today if I hadn't taken those risks.
47:23
If it had worked, we'd probably ought also be in an incredibly
47:26
different place. So you know what?
47:29
I don't regret it. I do, you know, regret what it
47:36
did to my family and the stress that it put them under.
47:40
Yeah. You know, this is an example of
47:43
one door closes, which allows you to find another door that
47:48
opens and opens up a whole new world of opportunities that you
47:52
never would have been seeking otherwise.
47:55
So it's easy to kind of look in the rear view mirror, easier to
47:58
look in the rear view mirror and connect the dots and probably
48:01
have a little bit of gratitude for, you know, what unfolded
48:04
there because now look at this amazing place that you're in.
48:07
But when you're going through that, you don't have the benefit
48:11
of that rear view mirror and you don't have the benefit of a
48:13
crystal ball to to know where it could be going.
48:16
It's just questions and doubts and financial stress and worry.
48:20
You mentioned your wife, you know, she was a rock that you
48:23
were able to lean on, get through with.
48:25
Could can you talk more about how you sort of, you know,
48:28
manage the ups and downs of the the day-to-day is that was kind
48:32
of falling apart? I don't think I did it very
48:36
well, Anthony. So I don't know that I have some
48:38
great life, life lessons now that I'm older.
48:43
I probably would. You know, I was in my early 30s
48:49
when that happened. And so again, it was a case of
48:55
intellectual arrogance, I think that that drove me to do that.
49:01
Ironically, I'm not sure I'm any really less cautious, just more
49:09
comprehensive when I approach these opportunities.
49:12
As you can, as you can see and hear from this, I by nature am
49:17
kind of a risk taker and a builder.
49:19
Yeah, You know, and what's interesting about your response
49:23
is I was hoping for here's the worldly piece of wisdom of how I
49:28
was able to, you know, set all my ego and my emotions aside and
49:33
and figure this out. But I think the reality of this
49:36
is great for everybody to hear. Like, yeah, it feels pretty
49:40
ungraceful when you're going through these really challenging
49:43
times. You know, you can look back on
49:46
it and say I learned XY and Z, but sometimes it's, it's, it's
49:51
really bumpy going through the dark tunnel.
49:53
It it it was it was an incredibly dark time.
49:57
I mean, look, when we look back on it, it was also the birth of
50:01
my second son happened to literally concurrently with all
50:05
of this. So I guess the good thing was I
50:08
could take the night Phoenix because I wasn't sleeping
50:11
anyway. And so hopefully, you know, I
50:20
showed up for him, right? That's the that's the most
50:26
important thing is you continue to show up for your family and
50:30
you know you, it's not that they can't see it, but you have to be
50:34
able to sort of compartmentalize and not let it dominate your
50:37
life. Yeah.
50:39
Well, and now today talking about, you know, your night
50:42
responsibilities, they're taking care of your son, you've got
50:45
your night time job with the Maple and Ash group or Maple
50:48
Hospitality Group and then you've got your day job with
50:51
arrive meetings. How challenging is it for you to
50:55
sort of juggle these two? Very, you know, look, hopefully
51:04
one of the things that's come through is I've never been
51:06
afraid of hard work. Unheard of for me.
51:10
So that's like a start. You schedule it, you try to do
51:18
it in chunks. You know what?
51:19
Again, one of the things I believe I've learned over time,
51:23
to accomplish things, you have to get to the most minute and
51:28
then give yourself the time to do them.
51:31
You can't just expect it to happen.
51:34
You have to give yourself the dedicated time to sort of focus
51:37
and switch between the two. And so for me that tends to be
51:41
sort of by day. So I have certain days of the
51:45
week where I'm working on one or the other and other days where.
51:50
I'm focused on. On the second business, and that
51:54
can vary by week and then, you know, you just try to make sure
51:59
that every day. One of the things that I would
52:02
tell people is one of my most important lessons is I wake up
52:05
every morning and I write down three things and I am not going
52:08
to stop working during that day until those three things are
52:12
done. I like that.
52:17
Matt, I've just got one more question for you today.
52:19
But before I ask it, I want to take care of three things.
52:21
First of all, anybody who wants to get in touch with Matt Wynn
52:25
Winn, you can find him on LinkedIn.
52:28
So search for his name. Matt Wynn with two NS Maple
52:31
Hospitality Group and arrive meetings.
52:34
Also for the brands Maple hospitality.com.
52:37
You can see all their amazing concepts there and then arrive
52:42
meetings with an s.com. We'll also try to scrounge up
52:46
their Instagram handles and have that for folks in the show notes
52:49
too. And as a reminder for listeners,
52:52
if you want to get more restaurant employees access to
52:54
benefits that won't hurt them financially and carries a
52:57
financial upside for the company, reach out to us at Add
53:00
Back benefits.com. Finally, if you'll take just a
53:04
moment to leave us a comment or review on your favorite podcast
53:07
app, you will hold a special place in our hearts forever.
53:11
Thank you. So last question for you, Matt.
53:14
A year from now, you and I reconnect and you've got your
53:18
fist pumping in the air. You're super excited.
53:21
You are celebrating something big.
53:22
What's that big thing that you hope to be celebrating one year
53:26
from today? Stability.
53:32
Yeah, every entrepreneur is chasing that, aren't they?
53:37
Look, I think we're at. Great, these great inflection
53:41
points in both businesses and so I'm super excited.
53:46
I'd love to reconnect in a year. I, I hope I'll have some other
53:49
interesting stories to tell in the meantime.
53:53
You know, look, I'd love to host you if you're ever in either,
53:57
you know, any of the cities where you have restaurants or
54:00
you happen to be in Scottsdale and, and need a meeting space,
54:03
we'd love to have you. But yeah, a year from now, I'd
54:06
love to be able to celebrate the stability.
54:09
And when I say that, I mean that we've been able to put in place
54:12
systems that allow us to grow with shared goals and.
54:18
Opportunities. Love it, Matt.
54:21
Nguyen from Maple Hospitality Group and arrive Meetings, I
54:25
want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time
54:28
and your story with us today. I really appreciate it.
54:31
Many thanks, Anthony. Look forward to doing it.
54:33
Again soon, folks, that's a wrap on another episode.
54:36
Of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us
54:39
today.