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YouTube’s giant child safety lobbying fail · The Front

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: From the Australian. Here's what's on the front.
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  Speaker 2: I'm Claire Harvey. It's Thursday, July thirty one, twenty twenty five.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: The Albanzi government says recognizing Palestinian statehood is essential to
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  Speaker 2: bringing peace to the Middle East. The declaration comes on
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: the heels of an ultimatum by Britain. It says it'll
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: formally recognize Palestine in September if Israel doesn't cease hostilities.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: The Australian's revealing today the Iranian exile community here is
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: living in fear, with loyalists of the Iranian regime stalking,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: surveiling and threatening anyone who speaks out against Tehran. That's
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  Speaker 2: an exclusive by our reporter Muhammad Alpharez, live now at
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  Speaker 2: the Australian dot Com dot a U.
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  Speaker 1: The Wiggles have failed.
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  Speaker 2: Not even everyone's favorite kids entertainers could talk the Albanese
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  Speaker 2: GA government out of banning YouTube for children under sixteen.
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  Speaker 2: That will bring YouTube in line with other social networks
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  Speaker 2: who'd been outraged when YouTube was originally excluded from the ban. Today,
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  Speaker 2: inside the back room lobbying behind a decision that'll have
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  Speaker 2: every parent wondering what's.
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  Speaker 1: Okay for kids? To consume on YouTube.
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  Speaker 2: The Wiggles have eight point five million subscribers. This is
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  Speaker 2: where they grow the next generation of kids whose mum
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  Speaker 2: and dad's pay to stream their albums by their merchandise.
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  Speaker 1: Show up at their gigs. But now that audience is
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  Speaker 1: under threat. But do not let them in.
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  Speaker 2: The Wiggles and every other creator of content for kids
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  Speaker 2: are now subject to a new band by the federal
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  Speaker 2: government determined to bring social media platforms under control. YouTube,
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  Speaker 2: owned by Google, has been furiously lobbying the government to
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  Speaker 2: ensure it was excluded from the social media ban for
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  Speaker 2: kids under sixteen.
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  Speaker 3: The YouTube did send the Wiggles to try and persuade
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  Speaker 3: me to their position.
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  Speaker 2: That's Anika Wells, the Federal Communications Minister.
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  Speaker 3: For clarity, because we've got a lot of incomings on this.
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  Speaker 3: It was it was the black Skivvies, it was Wiggles Inc.
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  Speaker 3: It was Wiggles management, not individual members of our cherished
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  Speaker 3: national icon, the Wiggles.
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  Speaker 4: We love the Wiggles. Wiggle My government is pro.
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  Speaker 3: Their argument was that the other had a few but
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  Speaker 3: in essence that they are a video streaming platform, not
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  Speaker 3: a social media platform. Catch that a video platform not
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  Speaker 3: a social platform. Last year, when the government passed its
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  Speaker 3: new social media ban, YouTube was excluded. The government had
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  Speaker 3: accepted that argument the issues of trolling or bullying on
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  Speaker 3: the platforms like Snapchat or TikTok, or predatory adults contacting
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  Speaker 3: kids weren't so relevant to YouTube.
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  Speaker 5: YouTube was initially excluded from the band, but that immediately
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  Speaker 5: drew rage from the.
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  Speaker 6: Other social media platforms.
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  Speaker 5: They argued that YouTube was very, very similar to them.
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  Speaker 1: This is Jack Quail, a federal politics reporter with The Australian.
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  Speaker 5: And what subsequently ensued was this very strong lobbying campaign
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  Speaker 5: from YouTube to ensure its continued exclusion from the ban.
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  Speaker 5: But after the E Safety Commissioner advised that no YouTube
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  Speaker 5: should be roped in, there was really no going back
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  Speaker 5: from there, and in a last dish attempt last week,
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  Speaker 5: YouTube threatened to launch a High Court challenge against the legislation,
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  Speaker 5: basically arguing that it amounted to a breach of the
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  Speaker 5: implied right of political communication.
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  Speaker 2: Google's lobbying was intense, but they had a formidable opponent
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  Speaker 2: in E Safety Commissioner Julie Inman Grant. She released a
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  Speaker 2: report this month that put YouTube squarely in the frame.
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  Speaker 2: Here's a line from that report, we've used a voice actor.
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  Speaker 7: The most common platforms on which children reported that their
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  Speaker 7: most recent or impactful exposure to content associated with harm
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  Speaker 7: had occurred were YouTube thirty seven percent and TikTok twenty
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  Speaker 7: three percent.
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  Speaker 2: Content associated with harm, the report says, that includes sexist, misogynistic,
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  Speaker 2: and hateful content, content depicting dangerous online challenges or fight videos,
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  Speaker 2: and content that encourages unhealthy eating or exercise habits. So,
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  Speaker 2: at least in part, it's the adolescence effect, the rabbit hole.
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  Speaker 5: Certainly, I mean, I'm twenty six years old, and YouTube's
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  Speaker 5: constantly serving our personalized videos after you've watched the first one.
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  Speaker 5: So it's really about, I guess, eliminating this rabbit hole
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  Speaker 5: effect that the regulator has talked about, where children are
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  Speaker 5: sucked in and spending hours and hours a day on
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  Speaker 5: YouTube rather than other activities.
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  Speaker 2: The report also said YouTube, along with TikTok, was exposing
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  Speaker 2: kids to online hate. That is, someone said something offensive
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  Speaker 2: or hateful to a child, presumably in the comments on
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  Speaker 2: a video. Okay, Jack, so let's just step inside the
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  Speaker 2: ordinary family home. Kids are watching YouTube, either on an
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  Speaker 2: iPad or a tablet, or on a phone, or on
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  Speaker 2: the family television.
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  Speaker 1: They may or may not be logged in.
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  Speaker 2: Some kids have a YouTube kid's account, some are watching
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  Speaker 2: YouTube while not logged in at all, and some are
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  Speaker 2: watching on a parent's account. What will this change mean
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  Speaker 2: to the way YouTube's actually consumed?
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  Speaker 5: So, if you're watching YouTube in a logged out state,
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  Speaker 5: it means that there's really a limited access to age
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  Speaker 5: inappropriate content. You can't comment on a video, you can't
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  Speaker 5: upload a video, and you don't receive the personalized video
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  Speaker 5: recommendations that come with a logged in account. So if
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  Speaker 5: I'm uploading a video, let's say I'm a content creator
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  Speaker 5: making a video about Lego, I sign off on that
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  Speaker 5: this is appropriate for children, and YouTube checks through their
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  Speaker 5: algorithms when any video is uploaded. So children without access
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  Speaker 5: to an account we'll still be able to watch those videos,
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  Speaker 5: but anything that isn't age appropriate will now be not
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  Speaker 5: able to be watched. So if a child is not
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  Speaker 5: signed in, they'll be able to watch videos about history
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  Speaker 5: or building Lego, but they won't be able to watch
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  Speaker 5: videos with swearing or violence.
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  Speaker 6: That you can still watch on YouTube now.
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  Speaker 5: But if a child is watching on their parents' account,
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  Speaker 5: they can watch anything on YouTube. But it's up to
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  Speaker 5: the parents then to ensure that their children is watching
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  Speaker 5: age appropriate content.
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  Speaker 2: So Jacket sounds as though this is designed to force
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  Speaker 2: parents to pay attention, perhaps in a way that some
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  Speaker 2: parents at the moment aren't. Parents might hand their kids
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  Speaker 2: an iPad or on iPhone and think that because the
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  Speaker 2: kid is logged in and they're watching YouTube kids, that
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  Speaker 2: it's safe.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Absolutely, And I mean it also gives agency to the
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  Speaker 5: parents as well, so they can say, sorry, kids, YouTube's ban,
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  Speaker 5: you can't watch it without an account.
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  Speaker 6: Go outside and play in the playground instead.
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  Speaker 2: The government isn't saying don't let your kids watch YouTube.
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  Speaker 2: They're saying be in the room with them, know what
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  Speaker 2: they're watching. They've acknowledged that teachers, coaches and other educators
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  Speaker 2: use YouTube as a tool like Eddie Woo's viral maths videos,
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  Speaker 2: news and current affairs and history.
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  Speaker 4: We want Astrayan parents and families to know that we've
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  Speaker 4: got your back. We know this is not the only
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  Speaker 4: solution and there's more to do, but it will make
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  Speaker 4: a difference. Parents want to get their kids off their
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  Speaker 4: devices and onto the playing fields. They want children to
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  Speaker 4: be able to enjoy their childhood and that is what
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  Speaker 4: this is about.
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  Speaker 2: Is that part of the design of this scheme overall, Jack,
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  Speaker 2: do you think that the government doesn't necessarily think that
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  Speaker 2: there'll be complete compliance by either the platforms or by users,
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  Speaker 2: but that they're giving parents some moral authority really backed
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  Speaker 2: by legislation, a bit like alcohol laws. You know, no,
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  Speaker 2: you can't have a drink, it's actually illegal until you
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  Speaker 2: turn eighteen?
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  Speaker 1: Is it that idea?
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  Speaker 6: Absolutely? And the Prime Minister talked about this today.
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  Speaker 5: I mean, no ban is going to be one hundred
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  Speaker 5: percent effective, but it is providing parents with that agency
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  Speaker 5: to tell their children, no, it's time to get off
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  Speaker 5: the phone. And also, I guess, reduce the addictive nature
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  Speaker 5: of technology. I mean juing Imman Grundt, the Acceptic Commissioner,
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  Speaker 5: has really talked about this frequently.
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  Speaker 6: You know, that sort of addictive pool of social media.
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  Speaker 8: The relationship between social media and children's mental health is
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  Speaker 8: one of the most important conversations of our time. So
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  Speaker 8: while the tech industry regresses backwards, we must move forwards.
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  Speaker 5: The concern for social media platforms is under this legislation
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  Speaker 5: they have to ensure that no one under sixteen years
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  Speaker 5: of age is on their platform, and I guess ambiguity
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  Speaker 5: around taking reasonable steps is causing a lot of concern
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  Speaker 5: for the industry. In this legislation, leve is very hefty
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  Speaker 5: fines if they haven't taken those reasonable steps, up to
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  Speaker 5: fifty million dollars. So for social media companies, it's really
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  Speaker 5: important that they do comply with this legislation.
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  Speaker 1: Coming up?
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  Speaker 2: Why gaming and dating platforms are next? If you've got kids,
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  Speaker 2: you know they're spending a lot of time online that
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  Speaker 2: isn't necessarily social media, gaming, using generative AI drawing, designing,
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  Speaker 2: and for.
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  Speaker 1: Adults there's dating.
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  Speaker 2: Those platforms are excluded from the ban for now, but
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  Speaker 2: they'll be next. Why do the social media companies so
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  Speaker 2: desperately want children to be using their platforms.
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  Speaker 5: Kids are the consumers of the future, obviously, and getting
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  Speaker 5: them young is great. It means that the dollars can
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  Speaker 5: continue to roll into the social media platforms pockets for
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  Speaker 5: years and years to come. But kids are also very
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  Speaker 5: very powerful consumers as well. I mean, if they see
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  Speaker 5: an online very impressionable young minds, you know they want
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  Speaker 5: to buy it. And social media platforms are presently popular
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  Speaker 5: medium to reach children. They're not watching free to ATV
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  Speaker 5: and so for advertisers it's a great way to access
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  Speaker 5: the market.
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  Speaker 2: You've also revealed in The Australian Jack that the e
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  Speaker 2: Safety Commissions moving to establish industry specific codes that kind
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  Speaker 2: of cover search engines, gaming platforms, dating websites. What does
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  Speaker 2: that mean and how does that differ from what they've
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  Speaker 2: already done.
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  Speaker 5: I think what this is a recognition of is the
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  Speaker 5: fact that it's not just children at risk online.
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  Speaker 6: You know, online gaming dating apps.
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  Speaker 5: There are risks here across the board, and so what
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  Speaker 5: the es Afty Commission is trying to do here is
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  Speaker 5: create an system online of regulation that ensures that every
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  Speaker 5: consumer on the Internet is the same as that possibly
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  Speaker 5: can be.
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  Speaker 6: This is just beginning.
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  Speaker 5: Julie in mcgrant, thest after Commissioner, she's got the ear
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  Speaker 5: of the government. She is very determined and at the
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  Speaker 5: same time, social media platforms don't have a lot of
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  Speaker 5: popular support in the.
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  Speaker 6: Community, even though they're very widely used.
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  Speaker 5: So it'll be interesting to see just how far the
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  Speaker 5: government goes here in clamping.
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  Speaker 6: Down on social media platforms. More broadly.
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  Speaker 2: Jackquail is a federal political reporter with The Australian. You
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  Speaker 2: can read all our Coverage of politics, state, federal and
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  Speaker 2: local right now at the Australian dot com dot au