Latest / Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact / A Gap Year With Purpose: Ania Smith, CEO of Taskrabbit

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A Gap Year With Purpose: Ania Smith, CEO of Taskrabbit · Leading By Example: Executives Making An Impact

0:04
Speaker 1: Rube. Working in uncertainty is something that I have to
0:10
Speaker 1: do now every day, and that is definitely very similar
0:14
Speaker 1: in some sense to being dropped off in the middle
0:16
Speaker 1: of bonos aires without speaking the language. I remember it
0:21
Speaker 1: was pouring outside. We had ten big suitcases. Our airbnb
0:25
Speaker 1: was not ready, and I thought, Oh my gosh, what
0:27
Speaker 1: did we do? Like, why did I leave this really
0:30
Speaker 1: amazing life that I had.
0:33
Speaker 2: If you took a year off work, would that help
0:36
Speaker 2: or hurt your career? It was a risk that Anya
0:39
Speaker 2: Smith took, and ultimately it was the best decision that
0:42
Speaker 2: prepared her to lead a team as.
0:44
Speaker 3: The CEO of Task Rabbit.
0:48
Speaker 2: I'm Jessica Chen and this is leading by example. I'm
0:52
Speaker 2: an Emmy Award winning journalist, founder of soul Cast Media,
0:56
Speaker 2: a communication training company, and the author of the book
1:00
Speaker 2: Aren't Not Loud How to get noticed at work.
1:03
Speaker 3: For all the right reasons.
1:05
Speaker 2: In many industries, taking time off is unthinkable. There's an
1:10
Speaker 2: unspoken fear of falling behind. But for Anya Smith, packing
1:14
Speaker 2: up her bag and moving out of Silicon Valley actually
1:18
Speaker 2: accelerated her career. In her words, it was one of
1:21
Speaker 2: the best things she ever did to become the leader
1:25
Speaker 2: she wanted to be. Before Amya left for Argentina, she
1:29
Speaker 2: was three years in at Airbnb during a time of
1:32
Speaker 2: rapid growth, while her husband Rob was leading operations at Glassdoor. Yes,
1:37
Speaker 2: it was exciting, but they weren't sure if it was
1:40
Speaker 2: the life they truly wanted and frankly, it's tough to
1:44
Speaker 2: lead a team if your heart isn't in it. By
1:46
Speaker 2: taking a year off to focus on anything but her job,
1:50
Speaker 2: Amya started to identify her priorities for her career and family,
1:54
Speaker 2: and she knew what she wanted to do. In twenty twenty,
1:58
Speaker 2: she became CEO of haask Rabbit, an online platform connecting
2:02
Speaker 2: customers with independent taskers who can do everything from shoveling
2:07
Speaker 2: the driveway to mounting a TV. Today, Anya shares how
2:11
Speaker 2: a hard reset might be the key to growth as
2:14
Speaker 2: a leader, and she offers tips on how you can
2:18
Speaker 2: navigate uncertainty in your own career and come back even
2:21
Speaker 2: stronger on the other side.
2:34
Speaker 3: Anya, thank you so much for joining us.
2:36
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
2:38
Speaker 2: So I'm just going to dive into this because I
2:40
Speaker 2: have a lot of questions for you, and I really
2:42
Speaker 2: want to start from the beginning. So for me and
2:45
Speaker 2: the work that I do, I find it very interesting
2:48
Speaker 2: in terms of understanding how the way you were raised,
2:51
Speaker 2: how that shapes the way we lead people today. You
2:55
Speaker 2: are the daughter of Eastern European immigrants, and I'm just
2:58
Speaker 2: curious to take us back.
2:59
Speaker 3: Well, what was it like growing up in your family?
3:03
Speaker 1: Well, thanks, first of all for having me. I was
3:06
Speaker 1: raised by immigrants. I myself am also an immigrant, and
3:09
Speaker 1: so I moved to United States when I was twelve,
3:13
Speaker 1: And really, when I think back to my childhood, so
3:17
Speaker 1: much of it comes down to one world, which is independence.
3:21
Speaker 1: We were just asked to be on our own quite
3:24
Speaker 1: often and had to really figure out how to make
3:28
Speaker 1: things work for ourselves. And so that came with a
3:31
Speaker 1: lot of challenges, but also lots of upsides and wins,
3:34
Speaker 1: and you gain confidence when things go well. And you know,
3:39
Speaker 1: it was a whole different world to live here in
3:41
Speaker 1: the United States and learn the language and understand how
3:46
Speaker 1: the world works. We frankly didn't have a lot of money,
3:49
Speaker 1: and so that meant that we had to figure out
3:51
Speaker 1: on our own how to actually have money and you know,
3:56
Speaker 1: really try to fit in. So very early on, as
4:01
Speaker 1: soon as we moved here. I started by getting a
4:04
Speaker 1: first job fairly quickly, which was a paper route, and
4:07
Speaker 1: then really after that just continued more out of necessity.
4:12
Speaker 1: But I really actually didn't know any other way. That
4:15
Speaker 1: was just what we did in our family.
4:18
Speaker 3: So you said the word independence.
4:20
Speaker 2: Was that something that your parents were like, Anya, you
4:22
Speaker 2: have to learn to be this way or was it
4:24
Speaker 2: something that you sort of realized yourself as a way
4:27
Speaker 2: to almost survive because perhaps your parents were working a lot,
4:31
Speaker 2: or what was the dynamic there.
4:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, we didn't have like family meetings and family
4:36
Speaker 1: dinners and family discussions where these big values were being
4:41
Speaker 1: driven into us. That's just not how we operated. We
4:45
Speaker 1: sort of learned by doing, and I think that is
4:48
Speaker 1: still a way that I learned best, which is by
4:51
Speaker 1: trying to roll up my sleeves and actually doing something
4:55
Speaker 1: versus reading about it or trying to understand what it
4:58
Speaker 1: is from some other angles. For our family, we are
5:01
Speaker 1: all really busy working.
5:04
Speaker 2: I feel like your story resonates so much with me
5:06
Speaker 2: because my parents immigrated here to the US. I was
5:09
Speaker 2: born here in the US, but I think being raised
5:12
Speaker 2: in a family of immigrants, you see a lot of
5:14
Speaker 2: their sacrifice too, and it almost feels like you as
5:17
Speaker 2: their child as a kid, like you want to make
5:19
Speaker 2: them proud in a way you don't want to disappoint them.
5:22
Speaker 2: And hearing your story of being like I went out,
5:24
Speaker 2: I got a job I wanted, and I needed to
5:27
Speaker 2: be independent.
5:27
Speaker 3: I love that so much. Do you feel like that
5:29
Speaker 3: stayed with you in some way?
5:31
Speaker 1: Definitely. It's incredible sort of as an adult to understand
5:35
Speaker 1: and recognize how much of who you are has to
5:38
Speaker 1: do with your childhood. And the concept of independence and
5:42
Speaker 1: what that means is really important to me and has
5:45
Speaker 1: always been important. It's also very important to my husband,
5:48
Speaker 1: and so it is one of the key values that
5:50
Speaker 1: we try to ensure that our kids feel as well,
5:54
Speaker 1: because I think what independence really means is being able
5:59
Speaker 1: to get up really almost any time when things don't
6:03
Speaker 1: go well. And I guess the similar concept to resilience,
6:06
Speaker 1: where you just have to keep going and every day
6:09
Speaker 1: is a new day and life is not fair and
6:13
Speaker 1: that's just part of life, but you have to be
6:15
Speaker 1: able to sort of brush us off, and it is
6:18
Speaker 1: all about getting up the next day and knowing how
6:21
Speaker 1: to move forward.
6:22
Speaker 2: Moving forward, that's so big, So moving forward into kind
6:26
Speaker 2: of your career. You've had a lot of amazing experience
6:29
Speaker 2: at a lot of the big companies that we hear
6:31
Speaker 2: of in the Bay Area. Now you're, of course here
6:34
Speaker 2: with task Rabbit acquired by Akia. So when you think
6:37
Speaker 2: about when you started this role at task Rabbit, this
6:41
Speaker 2: was I think in the middle of the pandemic. Pandemic
6:43
Speaker 2: might have just started. There were a lot of changes,
6:45
Speaker 2: a lot of uncertainty. Tell me what was going through
6:48
Speaker 2: your mind during that period of time as a new
6:51
Speaker 2: leader in a new company.
6:53
Speaker 1: It was actually, I'll say quite hard, and I don't
6:56
Speaker 1: wish it on anyone to start a new job when
6:59
Speaker 1: you can meet people face to face, I think that's
7:02
Speaker 1: really hard. I am definitely a person who likes to
7:06
Speaker 1: connect with people, who likes to build relationship and really
7:09
Speaker 1: values that even day to day casual connection. And so
7:14
Speaker 1: I came from Uber where things were very crazy. I
7:17
Speaker 1: was at Uber Eats and that business actually multiplied multiple
7:22
Speaker 1: times as a pandemic started, and by middle of March
7:26
Speaker 1: and middle of April, it was just really really insane.
7:30
Speaker 1: And then fairly quickly that summer I started speaking with
7:33
Speaker 1: task Rabbit, and then I started a task Rabbit at
7:36
Speaker 1: the end of August, and we were still very much
7:39
Speaker 1: so in a pandemic mode, so we were still all
7:42
Speaker 1: working from home, so I didn't actually have a chance
7:45
Speaker 1: to meet anyone in person, including my team, until November
7:50
Speaker 1: that year. But I think that that was really hard.
7:53
Speaker 1: I think it would have been much different to be
7:55
Speaker 1: able to walk in somewhere and say, hey, everyone, I'm
7:58
Speaker 1: here to learn. It was more difficult.
8:01
Speaker 2: So what was something that you had taken from all
8:05
Speaker 2: your prior experience and now that you're in this new role,
8:08
Speaker 2: what was kind of like a leadership skill that you
8:11
Speaker 2: wanted to make sure that you did write.
8:14
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing is having curiosity. So I
8:17
Speaker 1: already mentioned being able to learn, and so the first
8:20
Speaker 1: thing I did is I went on a listening tour
8:23
Speaker 1: and I met with every single employee of the company.
8:27
Speaker 1: And you know, that was a lot of zoom calls,
8:29
Speaker 1: but it was so valuable to really understand from someone
8:34
Speaker 1: who's maybe a junior code or someone who's running operations,
8:37
Speaker 1: someone who is really thinking about our customer experience, someone
8:41
Speaker 1: who is designing what our app looks like, and really
8:44
Speaker 1: understand what is working, what is not working, And that
8:48
Speaker 1: helped to set the first set of strategies that then
8:51
Speaker 1: we could go forward with.
8:54
Speaker 2: So during your listening tour, was there any difficult decision
8:57
Speaker 2: that you had to make as all the information that
9:00
Speaker 2: you've gleaned through the conversations that you had.
9:03
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest of not the biggest
9:06
Speaker 1: responsibility that I have as a CEO of a company's
9:09
Speaker 1: to make decisions. Now, I try to ensure that I
9:13
Speaker 1: make fewer decisions because I really want to empower my
9:17
Speaker 1: team to make majority of the decisions. By the time
9:20
Speaker 1: the decisions come to me, they're kind of I would say,
9:23
Speaker 1: slightly less fun. They're usually two or three not great options.
9:28
Speaker 1: And I think Brian Chesky often talks about this, and
9:31
Speaker 1: I think Jeff Bezos talked about this as well as
9:33
Speaker 1: just this one way door decisions, right, and so these
9:36
Speaker 1: decisions are impactful enough that you can't undo them fairly quickly.
9:41
Speaker 1: So for example, going back to the office that means
9:45
Speaker 1: signing up leases, spending a lot of money to make
9:48
Speaker 1: it work, you know, calling people back and so on,
9:51
Speaker 1: it would be really hard. Of course, it's doable to
9:54
Speaker 1: then say Okay, actually this was a little experiment that
9:57
Speaker 1: didn't quite work. And so these one way door decisions
10:02
Speaker 1: are quite difficult, and I think as leaders and as
10:07
Speaker 1: a leader of task Rabbit, I really try to focus
10:09
Speaker 1: on making those decisions quicker rather than trying to drag
10:14
Speaker 1: on and get more data, because that to me just
10:16
Speaker 1: feels a lot more like excuse to not make the decision.
10:20
Speaker 1: And so I try very much so to focus on
10:24
Speaker 1: understanding what are the biggest trade offs and thinking about
10:30
Speaker 1: the impact and trying to really foresee several steps down
10:34
Speaker 1: the line and how a certain decision will impact whatever
10:37
Speaker 1: it is that we're trying to do, and really what
10:39
Speaker 1: our customers will feel like at the end of the day.
10:42
Speaker 3: Right, So, pivoting a little bit.
10:44
Speaker 2: I know you're a huge advocate for diversity flexibility. I'm
10:49
Speaker 2: just curious what advice do you have for people who
10:53
Speaker 2: also value that and that is something that they also
10:55
Speaker 2: want to see in their workplace, Because I know this
10:57
Speaker 2: is something that you care about, but perhaps they're working
11:00
Speaker 2: for an organization that might not value it as much.
11:03
Speaker 3: But I just want to understand how do you think
11:05
Speaker 3: about that.
11:06
Speaker 1: I fundamentally believe that the more different perspectives we have
11:11
Speaker 1: in the room, the better off we are in solving
11:14
Speaker 1: challenging problems, and so at task we really are trying
11:20
Speaker 1: to bring people who we think are the best people
11:23
Speaker 1: for the roles that we have, and we want to
11:26
Speaker 1: ensure that they come from different backgrounds because our customers
11:30
Speaker 1: are very diverse as well, and when I talk about customers,
11:34
Speaker 1: I talk about both taskers and clients, and so it's
11:38
Speaker 1: important to us to ensure that we have that type
11:42
Speaker 1: of environment and that type of culture within task Rabbit,
11:46
Speaker 1: Otherwise I think it becomes very difficult to serve our customers.
11:50
Speaker 1: And I think you mentioned flexibility that is hugely important
11:54
Speaker 1: and for a good chunk of time. Really, the first
11:57
Speaker 1: four plus years I've been here were a remote first
12:01
Speaker 1: company where we would just get together once in a while,
12:03
Speaker 1: usually once a month or something like this, maybe once
12:06
Speaker 1: every quarter for an off site, and then just recently
12:09
Speaker 1: we've started going back to the office, and I do
12:12
Speaker 1: think it is really important for people to come into
12:15
Speaker 1: the office and collaborate and really have the opportunity to
12:20
Speaker 1: chat and to connect on very different issues that are
12:25
Speaker 1: really hard to come by just on Zoom because you
12:28
Speaker 1: can't really have these random conversations. That being said, it's
12:32
Speaker 1: still really important for me that we maintain that level
12:35
Speaker 1: of flexibility, and so we're only asking people to be
12:39
Speaker 1: here two days a week, and we are making sure
12:43
Speaker 1: that our employees and our teams know that. First and foremost,
12:47
Speaker 1: what's important is ensuring that we can do right by
12:50
Speaker 1: our taskers and buy our clients. But we also have
12:53
Speaker 1: to make sure that we as teams are functioning well,
12:57
Speaker 1: are productive, and have that between being in office but
13:02
Speaker 1: also being able to work from home. And I do
13:05
Speaker 1: think it allows you to pull from a larger pool
13:07
Speaker 1: of employees, just because I think it is really important
13:11
Speaker 1: to provide that level of flexibility and autonomy to people.
13:15
Speaker 2: As a working mom, I feel like flexibility is everything.
13:19
Speaker 2: I have two young kids as well, and I have
13:21
Speaker 2: a lot of friends who are in the stage where
13:23
Speaker 2: our kids are very young, and a lot of them
13:25
Speaker 2: took breaks in their own career because they felt like
13:28
Speaker 2: they couldn't find a job that offered flexibilities.
13:31
Speaker 3: So why is that something that's so important to you?
13:34
Speaker 1: So I'm a mom myself. My kids are now a
13:38
Speaker 1: little bit older, they're all teenagers, but earlier in my
13:41
Speaker 1: career I took a year off with each child, or
13:44
Speaker 1: almost a year off, and they are each two years apart,
13:48
Speaker 1: which then meant that really for about five years, three
13:52
Speaker 1: of those five years I was off work completely, and
13:56
Speaker 1: then the two in between. I wouldn't say that they
13:59
Speaker 1: were the most stellar, ambitious years of my career, knowing
14:03
Speaker 1: I was going to leave again, and so I do think,
14:07
Speaker 1: you know, when I was raising my kids, when they
14:09
Speaker 1: were younger, we didn't have the flexibility, but whether it
14:13
Speaker 1: was Airbnb or Walmart or Expedia or Uber, I did
14:18
Speaker 1: negotiate to work from home once a week, and just
14:22
Speaker 1: subtracting the commute time was very helpful.
14:26
Speaker 2: I think I read somewhere that you and your husband
14:28
Speaker 2: had a point system that you guys created.
14:31
Speaker 3: Can you tell us a little bit about that, Yeah.
14:33
Speaker 1: And we do, and we still use it. Very early on,
14:37
Speaker 1: when my first one was born, and as I mentioned,
14:40
Speaker 1: I took a year off, we were contemplating what is
14:43
Speaker 1: life going to look like when I go back to work,
14:46
Speaker 1: And then once I did, we realize, like, there's just
14:49
Speaker 1: a lot of things that need to get done when
14:50
Speaker 1: you have a child, and when I wasn't at home
14:53
Speaker 1: all day, we didn't know who would do those things.
14:56
Speaker 1: And we started talking about the fact that we also
14:59
Speaker 1: don't want to be missing dinners with her, and we
15:01
Speaker 1: want to be there when she goes to bed and
15:03
Speaker 1: put her to bed, and we want to be there
15:05
Speaker 1: when she wakes up. And so we started realizing that
15:09
Speaker 1: some of the jobs that we've had in the past
15:12
Speaker 1: would probably not work for us. But then there was
15:15
Speaker 1: financial trade offs as well, and so we started ranking
15:18
Speaker 1: every role that one could possibly have in a number system,
15:23
Speaker 1: either a one where you work part time or you're
15:26
Speaker 1: not working, a two where you have a quote unquote
15:29
Speaker 1: normal corporate job where you're doing fifty hours a week
15:34
Speaker 1: and maybe some travel. And then there are the sort
15:37
Speaker 1: of threes, which is you're a startup, you're investment banking
15:41
Speaker 1: or consulting, and you're on the road all the time
15:43
Speaker 1: and you're fairly not present. And we made a very
15:48
Speaker 1: conscious decision that between the two of us, we don't
15:51
Speaker 1: want to ever be above four and a half. So
15:54
Speaker 1: that's really hard because both of us were quite and
15:58
Speaker 1: still are ambitious in our careers, and so neither one
16:02
Speaker 1: of us wanted to go down to a one, which
16:04
Speaker 1: therefore then forced both of us to stay at this
16:07
Speaker 1: two level, and it meant that sometimes we would be
16:11
Speaker 1: reaching a five. But as long as it was temporary
16:14
Speaker 1: or we knew that that was not a full way
16:17
Speaker 1: to go forward, we were fine with it. But it
16:19
Speaker 1: would keep us on our toes because we would have
16:23
Speaker 1: a shared language that would say, hey, we're like out
16:25
Speaker 1: of five and we've been out a five for a
16:27
Speaker 1: while now, and we don't see a way out of
16:30
Speaker 1: a five unless one of us changes something. But you know,
16:33
Speaker 1: for some couples, maybe they are fine with a six.
16:36
Speaker 1: They just get more help, and that's totally fine. There's
16:39
Speaker 1: no wrong way. But this just gave us a way
16:42
Speaker 1: to think about the problems and the challenges we were
16:45
Speaker 1: facing while raising a young family.
16:48
Speaker 2: We'll be back with more leading by example after a
16:51
Speaker 2: quake break. There was also another story that I read
17:07
Speaker 2: that you spent some time in Argentina. Can you tell
17:10
Speaker 2: me about that period of time in your life and
17:12
Speaker 2: how that kind of shaped even just your perspective on
17:14
Speaker 2: leading today.
17:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this happened before the pandemic, so at the time,
17:19
Speaker 1: it was not that common to take a year off,
17:23
Speaker 1: especially at the height of your career. When you know,
17:26
Speaker 1: we were both in our late thirties or early forties,
17:29
Speaker 1: in the middle of raising our very young family and
17:33
Speaker 1: both working in these Silicon Valley startups or big companies
17:37
Speaker 1: that were doing big, fun things. But we kind of
17:41
Speaker 1: knew that we weren't married to that lifestyle and we
17:44
Speaker 1: weren't sure that that's what we wanted to do. And
17:46
Speaker 1: my husband and I have traveled together extensively before we
17:50
Speaker 1: had children, and so we always knew that this is
17:53
Speaker 1: something that we've wanted to do and also expose our
17:56
Speaker 1: kids to. You know, I can't replicate my child for
18:00
Speaker 1: my kids, and I obviously I'm very thankful for even
18:04
Speaker 1: all the hardships during my childhood because they shape me
18:08
Speaker 1: and who I am as a leader. But I can
18:10
Speaker 1: try to put them in a different new environment and
18:14
Speaker 1: have them learn to adapt and learn to be resilient.
18:17
Speaker 1: And so it was very exciting for me to be
18:20
Speaker 1: able to provide that kind of experience for my kids.
18:23
Speaker 3: That must have been so nerve wracking, you know.
18:25
Speaker 2: I feel like for a lot of people, and perhaps
18:27
Speaker 2: a lot of our listeners who are very ambitious, who
18:29
Speaker 2: are very career oriented, they could never imagine taking that
18:33
Speaker 2: one year, that gap year off, right, because what's going
18:36
Speaker 2: to happen? They're going to fall behind? Right? Did it?
18:39
Speaker 2: Make you feel like you fell behind. Did it make
18:41
Speaker 2: you feel like you stalled in your career in any way?
18:44
Speaker 1: No, it made me accelerate in my career. I came
18:47
Speaker 1: back more confident in who I am and what I
18:50
Speaker 1: wanted to do, what I didn't want to do, and
18:53
Speaker 1: I was able to find work quite quickly. I mean,
18:57
Speaker 1: it was a very different market, to be fair, but
19:00
Speaker 1: working in uncertainty is something that I have to do
19:03
Speaker 1: now every day, and that is definitely very similar in
19:07
Speaker 1: some sense being dropped off in the middle of Buenos
19:10
Speaker 1: Aires without speaking the language, you know. I remember it
19:14
Speaker 1: was pouring outside, We had ten big suitcases, our airbnb
19:18
Speaker 1: was not ready, and it was dark and cold, and
19:22
Speaker 1: I thought, oh my gosh, what did we do? Like,
19:24
Speaker 1: why did I leave this really amazing life that I had.
19:28
Speaker 1: But obviously it worked out and it was definitely worth
19:30
Speaker 1: every minute.
19:32
Speaker 3: So you said it made you feel more confident, how.
19:35
Speaker 1: So, because I felt like, if I can do this,
19:38
Speaker 1: if I could rent out my house, pull my kids
19:41
Speaker 1: out of school, leave our jobs, sell our cars and
19:44
Speaker 1: just kind of leave our lives and go somewhere where
19:48
Speaker 1: we had never been to Argentina, and we didn't know
19:52
Speaker 1: anyone there either, and to know that I can show
19:55
Speaker 1: up and set up my life there and set up
19:58
Speaker 1: school for the kids and do the thing things that
20:00
Speaker 1: we were doing here while still learning new hobbies and
20:04
Speaker 1: learning new skills and really taking the time to take
20:08
Speaker 1: a step back and think about what we want out
20:10
Speaker 1: of life, what do we want for our family, for
20:12
Speaker 1: our careers, And having that gift and that break was amazing.
20:17
Speaker 1: For the first time in my life, I felt extremely
20:20
Speaker 1: content with the choices that we've made because we had
20:23
Speaker 1: a year to decide to do something else and we didn't.
20:27
Speaker 2: Because I feel like the opposite of contentment is always wondering. Yeah,
20:32
Speaker 2: always kind of chasing, but not really knowing what you're chasing.
20:35
Speaker 2: Would you say that's what it is?
20:37
Speaker 1: Absolutely? There's always you know what if we could do
20:41
Speaker 1: something differently. I mean, life in a Bay Area can
20:43
Speaker 1: be crazy, and so it was very refreshing to take
20:46
Speaker 1: a step back and say, is this what we want?
20:48
Speaker 1: And by the time we made that decision to move
20:51
Speaker 1: back to the Bay Area, we were really confident that
20:54
Speaker 1: that is what we wanted to do for a variety
20:56
Speaker 1: of reasons, and it felt really good.
20:59
Speaker 3: How do you feel like that then? Made you the
21:02
Speaker 3: leader you are now a task rabbit.
21:04
Speaker 1: I talk a lot about leadership in terms of curiosity,
21:07
Speaker 1: as we talked about already, but another big attribute or
21:11
Speaker 1: skill is having the courage to take some risks and
21:15
Speaker 1: to do something that may or may not work out.
21:18
Speaker 1: So that happens every day here, and a lot of
21:21
Speaker 1: the decisions that I make do not go the way
21:24
Speaker 1: I had hoped, but that's okay. I think it's better
21:27
Speaker 1: to make those decisions and then learn if things are
21:30
Speaker 1: not working, then just do not make decisions at all.
21:33
Speaker 1: And I think having the courage and becoming a little
21:37
Speaker 1: bit less risk averse and knowing that in most decisions
21:43
Speaker 1: that I make, there's just not enough information to be
21:46
Speaker 1: certain ever about anything exactly, and so in a case
21:50
Speaker 1: when we moved to Argentina, there was so much uncertainty,
21:53
Speaker 1: But actually being able to jump off the cliff sometimes,
21:58
Speaker 1: I think is really helpful for all of us.
22:00
Speaker 2: And do you feel like this is something that you
22:02
Speaker 2: sometimes can see yourself communicating to your team internally as well.
22:06
Speaker 1: My goal is to make sure that everyone feels that
22:10
Speaker 1: this is the best job that they've had, that they
22:12
Speaker 1: are being encouraged to really be bold and I think
22:17
Speaker 1: that people are motivated by many different things, and so
22:22
Speaker 1: understanding what everyone's motivations are and why they come to
22:26
Speaker 1: work every day and why they come and join us
22:28
Speaker 1: at test Rabbit is really important. So while this type
22:33
Speaker 1: of inexperience is very encouraging and motivating to me, it
22:36
Speaker 1: may not be to everyone. So for me, it is
22:39
Speaker 1: understanding motivations so that you can try to, as a leader,
22:44
Speaker 1: build the environment that allows every individual to really thrive
22:49
Speaker 1: based on who they are and what motivates them specifically.
22:52
Speaker 2: So as we wrap up here, I actually have a
22:54
Speaker 2: few spitfire questions to kind of get you thinking about
22:59
Speaker 2: leadership and just kind of your philosophy. So the first
23:01
Speaker 2: one is, what's one decision that you made in the
23:05
Speaker 2: first six months a task Rabbit that you would never
23:08
Speaker 2: want to make again.
23:10
Speaker 1: I think I made some poor choices in terms of
23:15
Speaker 1: how we communicated certain decisions to the company. They're so
23:19
Speaker 1: clear to me, some of these decisions, and I don't
23:22
Speaker 1: think I understood how important it was to get that
23:26
Speaker 1: message across to the team multiple times over and over
23:31
Speaker 1: in different ways, just given the importance of whatever the
23:35
Speaker 1: decision is, and so learning the communication piece and the
23:40
Speaker 1: art of communication to the team is really critical and
23:44
Speaker 1: it's taken me some time to get there.
23:46
Speaker 3: Oh I love that.
23:47
Speaker 2: By the way, what I teach is communications. So when
23:50
Speaker 2: you say communications, instantly had this like, oh my gosh,
23:53
Speaker 2: was it more you just communicated versus kind of like
23:55
Speaker 2: explaining the process or what was it that you learned
23:57
Speaker 2: and how you should.
23:59
Speaker 1: Maybe just not consistent enough and often enough we made
24:03
Speaker 1: a decision of some sorts and then we had a
24:06
Speaker 1: bullet on a slide at all hands and then we
24:08
Speaker 1: moved on. And that's just not enough for some of
24:12
Speaker 1: the decisions that we're making. And so I think we're
24:15
Speaker 1: much more careful today.
24:16
Speaker 3: Here's another question.
24:17
Speaker 2: What's the worst leadership advice you had ever received, and
24:21
Speaker 2: what's one piece of advice you would give to a
24:24
Speaker 2: new CEO.
24:26
Speaker 1: I think early on in my career, when I was
24:28
Speaker 1: raising my kids, one of the pieces of advice that
24:32
Speaker 1: I received about this life work balance was probably not
24:36
Speaker 1: quite right for me. I was definitely struggling and trying
24:39
Speaker 1: to think about how to make it work, and someone
24:42
Speaker 1: in a leadership team said, hey, you just need to
24:44
Speaker 1: hire more people, and that was not actually something that
24:50
Speaker 1: would have worked for me or my family. But I
24:53
Speaker 1: came home thinking that this is what I should do,
24:56
Speaker 1: and it took a lot of time in thinking to
24:59
Speaker 1: be like, no, actually, this is not who we are.
25:02
Speaker 1: And I guess I wish that that advice would have
25:05
Speaker 1: had more curiosity in it. And I think when I
25:08
Speaker 1: think about what are the best piece of advice is
25:12
Speaker 1: always to be curious and take a step back before
25:14
Speaker 1: you judge, which is really hard for me to do.
25:16
Speaker 1: I'm often too quick to jump into conclusions and so
25:20
Speaker 1: having a curiosity to ask the right questions I think
25:23
Speaker 1: is really important for anyone, especially a first time CEO.
25:28
Speaker 2: So the name of this podcast is leading by example.
25:31
Speaker 2: What does that mean to you? And how do you
25:34
Speaker 2: exemplify this in your own work?
25:36
Speaker 1: I think what we do is way more important than
25:40
Speaker 1: what we say. So while I talked about communication, I
25:43
Speaker 1: think the why and explaining the why behind decisions is
25:47
Speaker 1: really critical. But I think showing people how we live
25:50
Speaker 1: our values is really important as well. And so you
25:55
Speaker 1: know what happens in a room when I'm in a room,
25:57
Speaker 1: what types of processes or ways of war do we
26:00
Speaker 1: have that exemplify who we are? As task Rabbit and
26:05
Speaker 1: the teams here a task rabbit, and so I think
26:08
Speaker 1: it is really important to think about how we show
26:12
Speaker 1: up day to day versus how we talk about how
26:15
Speaker 1: we show up. How do you show up is really
26:19
Speaker 1: what people mostly see and what they mostly remember.
26:22
Speaker 3: I love that.
26:23
Speaker 2: It's like the action and can you communicate the action,
26:26
Speaker 2: because that's really what people want to hear, right, Like,
26:28
Speaker 2: it's not just saying it, it's being able to articulate
26:31
Speaker 2: it in many ways.
26:32
Speaker 1: That's right.
26:33
Speaker 3: This is a fun one.
26:34
Speaker 2: What's the most unusual thing that you have ever heard
26:38
Speaker 2: of someone booking a task rabbit for?
26:41
Speaker 1: Oh? I mean there are so many things. I mean
26:43
Speaker 1: the things that we always have really fun time learning
26:46
Speaker 1: about is just waiting in line for the craziest things.
26:51
Speaker 1: So you know, there's some like muffins or donuts or
26:54
Speaker 1: whatever in some hot bakery in New York City, or
26:57
Speaker 1: there's some tickets. There's still a lot of like weight
27:00
Speaker 1: in line type of occasions, and very often taskers get
27:04
Speaker 1: hired for that.
27:06
Speaker 3: I love that, and honestly, that's a good one. I mean,
27:08
Speaker 3: waiting in line is hard sometimes.
27:10
Speaker 1: Well, and it just takes so much time, right.
27:13
Speaker 2: Exactly, Anya, I want to say thank you so much.
27:16
Speaker 2: Is there anything else that you wanted to share that
27:19
Speaker 2: I didn't get to ask, just in the essence of
27:22
Speaker 2: the topic of leading by example today.
27:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is really important to lead by example,
27:28
Speaker 1: and I try to think about how I can do
27:30
Speaker 1: that with my team. One of the things is I
27:33
Speaker 1: always ask for feedback, and you know, it's not always
27:37
Speaker 1: the most complimentary feedback. Let's say, and I have it
27:42
Speaker 1: all summarized, and then I put it up on a
27:44
Speaker 1: board so that my entire team can see exactly what
27:48
Speaker 1: I'm doing well and what I'm not doing well. And
27:51
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to show up and say, hey,
27:55
Speaker 1: I am very far from perfect. Here are things that
27:58
Speaker 1: I do well and I will continue to lean into those,
28:00
Speaker 1: and then here are some things are one thing that
28:03
Speaker 1: I'm going to work on this here because it's really
28:05
Speaker 1: important for me to get better.
28:07
Speaker 2: Anya, I think that's amazing. You know, most people would
28:10
Speaker 2: want to hide a performance review that isn't only positive news,
28:14
Speaker 2: but you're like, no, this is what it is.
28:16
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, if you have a performance review with only positive news,
28:21
Speaker 1: it's really kind of unhelpful. Yeah, and so I would
28:25
Speaker 1: much rather understand and you know, at this point in
28:28
Speaker 1: my career, there's generally no surprises, and so it is
28:32
Speaker 1: about thinking about, well, which part do I really want
28:35
Speaker 1: to prioritize and get better at.
28:36
Speaker 2: But I love that you're very transparent about it. I
28:39
Speaker 2: think to me, that really does show leading by example.
28:42
Speaker 2: So that's amazing. Thank you, Anya, Well, thank you for
28:45
Speaker 2: having me.
28:46
Speaker 1: This is great.
28:49
Speaker 2: That was such an amazing conversation with Anya. I don't
28:52
Speaker 2: know about you, but I walked away feeling super inspired,
28:55
Speaker 2: particularly because there are three main things that she talked
28:59
Speaker 2: about that resonated with me and I want to talk
29:01
Speaker 2: to you about it. The first one was when she
29:03
Speaker 2: talked about how leadership is actually something that begins when
29:07
Speaker 2: we're really young. The second was when she talked about
29:10
Speaker 2: how the best decisions really only work when people believe
29:15
Speaker 2: in them. And the third one is sometimes you just
29:18
Speaker 2: got to stop chasing the chase. Let's start with the
29:22
Speaker 2: first one, you know, she talked about how leadership is
29:26
Speaker 2: actually shaped long before we even go into these leadership roles.
29:31
Speaker 2: Anya talked about how growing up as an immigrant, she
29:34
Speaker 2: learned how important it was for her to be independent.
29:37
Speaker 2: She took on a paper route, she earned her own money,
29:40
Speaker 2: and she didn't have to rely on her parents and
29:42
Speaker 2: ask for money, and through that experience, she says, she
29:45
Speaker 2: learned that you know, you don't sit back and wait,
29:48
Speaker 2: You take action, and when things don't go as plan,
29:51
Speaker 2: you get up, you keep going, you figure it out.
29:54
Speaker 2: Hearing her story made me reflect on how we can
29:57
Speaker 2: build that same mindset for our team too. So maybe
30:01
Speaker 2: the real question isn't about how we manage people, it's
30:05
Speaker 2: about how do we empower them. It's not about control,
30:10
Speaker 2: but it's about trusting. How do we create an environment
30:14
Speaker 2: where people feel safe to try, safe to fail, and
30:19
Speaker 2: support it enough so that they can find their own
30:22
Speaker 2: way forward even though they might not have all the answers,
30:26
Speaker 2: because so much of building resilience doesn't come from just
30:30
Speaker 2: sitting around and waiting for things to come together. A
30:34
Speaker 2: lot of it comes from doing and having the freedom
30:36
Speaker 2: to try. The second thing that Anya said that really
30:40
Speaker 2: stuck with me was this the best decisions only work
30:44
Speaker 2: when people believe in them. This was when she talked
30:47
Speaker 2: about how when she first stepped into her role, it
30:50
Speaker 2: was really clear to her the decisions she had to
30:53
Speaker 2: make for the company, and she says she communicated this
30:57
Speaker 2: new direction to her company, and even though it felt
31:00
Speaker 2: right to her, it didn't exactly land the same way
31:04
Speaker 2: with her team. This was so honest of her to
31:07
Speaker 2: admit this. It reminds me how we cannot overestimate the
31:12
Speaker 2: level of buy in we get from people, and as
31:15
Speaker 2: a leader, we sometimes have to explain the why we
31:19
Speaker 2: have to build that excitement and get people to see
31:22
Speaker 2: the vision that we are excited about. This is where
31:25
Speaker 2: I believe storytelling becomes really important, and this is what
31:29
Speaker 2: I talk about a lot in my communications classes because
31:32
Speaker 2: it's easy for us as leaders to dive into the
31:35
Speaker 2: logistics the operations of things. We know what needs to happen,
31:40
Speaker 2: but if there's big change going on, we can't assume
31:45
Speaker 2: that just saying it once people understand a lot of
31:48
Speaker 2: times we have to come at it in multiple ways,
31:50
Speaker 2: especially if this is such an important thing that everybody
31:54
Speaker 2: needs to get on board with now. The third one
31:58
Speaker 2: was one that really stayed with me, and this was
32:00
Speaker 2: all about stop chasing to chase. This is when she
32:06
Speaker 2: talked about how she took a year off, packed up
32:09
Speaker 2: all her things, and moved her entire family to just
32:14
Speaker 2: hang out and live in Argentina. This was not pre
32:17
Speaker 2: kids she did this with her kids, and it made
32:21
Speaker 2: me think about how I think for a lot of us,
32:23
Speaker 2: in our mind, we might be thinking, well, I can't
32:26
Speaker 2: take a year off. That's scary, that's going to hold
32:28
Speaker 2: me back. I'm such a career oriented person. But she said,
32:32
Speaker 2: and this meant so much to me, that doing this
32:35
Speaker 2: was actually one of the best things that she did
32:37
Speaker 2: for her career.
32:38
Speaker 3: You know, she was working in.
32:39
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley at the time, where a lot of times
32:41
Speaker 2: there is that culture you go, go, go, But it
32:45
Speaker 2: allowed her to stop and reevaluate what was important for
32:49
Speaker 2: her and her life and most importantly, what was the
32:52
Speaker 2: life she wanted to build for herself and for her family.
32:55
Speaker 2: And it was because of that time she spent that's
32:58
Speaker 2: when she went, wait, I do want to come back.
33:02
Speaker 2: I do want to work. I do want to do
33:04
Speaker 2: this kind of work. In her words, that experience made
33:08
Speaker 2: her feel even more confident coming back. But it's amazing
33:12
Speaker 2: to hear her talk about this because that year it
33:14
Speaker 2: also made her realize how important flexibility is to people who.
33:20
Speaker 3: Work as well.
33:21
Speaker 2: Now as a working mom, I definitely know how important
33:24
Speaker 2: flexibility is for people who work, and I imagine that
33:28
Speaker 2: is exactly how she leads her company today. So a
33:33
Speaker 2: big thank you to Anya. Thank you so much for
33:36
Speaker 2: joining us. This was such a great conversation, and to
33:39
Speaker 2: all of you for listening. If you enjoyed this episode
33:42
Speaker 2: or have feedback on what you want to hear and
33:44
Speaker 2: guess you'd like to hear from, please rate and review
33:47
Speaker 2: Leading by Example.
33:48
Speaker 3: Every review, every rating.
33:50
Speaker 2: It really does help us reach more people and make
33:53
Speaker 2: this show the best it can be. I'm Jessica Chen,
33:57
Speaker 2: the author of Smart Not Loud, How to Get Noticed
34:00
Speaker 2: at Work for All the Right Reasons, and the CEO
34:03
Speaker 2: of Soulcast Media, a communications training company. So for more
34:07
Speaker 2: information about me and what I do, you can head
34:09
Speaker 2: over to Solcastmedia dot com or add me on LinkedIn
34:13
Speaker 2: and Instagram. A huge thank you to our production team
34:16
Speaker 2: at Ruby Studio, especially Matt Stillo and Sierra Spreen. We
34:20
Speaker 2: will be back in two weeks with another episode of
34:22
Speaker 2: Leading by Example.
34:24
Speaker 3: I'll see you then.