Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger Claims Mistakes Were Made By The Grand Jury (8/22/26)

Transcript

Murder In Moscow: Bryan Kohberger Claims Mistakes Were Made By The Grand Jury (8/22/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

0:00
Speaker 1: Up everyone and welcome back to the program. So there
0:03
Speaker 1: is some big news coming out of Moscow as Brian
0:07
Speaker 1: Coberger has been indicted by a grand jury. And we
0:11
Speaker 1: had previously talked about this as being a possibility, especially
0:16
Speaker 1: considering that Coberger's team was trying to get one of
0:20
Speaker 1: the surviving roommates, Bethany Funk, to be a witness basically
0:25
Speaker 1: on his behalf. So the best way for the prosecution
0:29
Speaker 1: to make an end around and avoid all of that
0:33
Speaker 1: was to conduct a grand jury hearing in secret, and
0:37
Speaker 1: that's exactly the route that they decided to take. So
0:40
Speaker 1: this means that Brian Colberger is now not somebody who
0:44
Speaker 1: is waiting to be indicted. Brian Cohberger is indicted, and
0:48
Speaker 1: not just by the state of Idaho. Mind you, this
0:51
Speaker 1: evidence was shown to a grand jury. That means people
0:55
Speaker 1: sat in on that grand jury and they rendered their
0:58
Speaker 1: decision off of the evvidence that has been provided. However,
1:02
Speaker 1: Brian Colberger's legal team was not present to challenge any
1:07
Speaker 1: of the assertions or evidence presented by the state, and
1:11
Speaker 1: that's because the proceedings of a grand jury are private.
1:14
Speaker 1: The defense is not invited to participate, but they will
1:18
Speaker 1: get a transcript of what happened later on down the line,
1:22
Speaker 1: or maybe directly after. Either way, they're going to get
1:25
Speaker 1: a transcript of what went down, but they weren't allowed
1:28
Speaker 1: to be present to hear any of the evidence or
1:31
Speaker 1: to see what was being presented. And that evidence was
1:35
Speaker 1: presented to a jury, and that jury decided from that
1:40
Speaker 1: presentation of evidence that there's enough here to convict Brian Colberger.
1:45
Speaker 1: The thing about grand jury's is you don't need a
1:47
Speaker 1: mountain of evidence to get an indictment. And that's because
1:51
Speaker 1: it's one way traffic. You're not getting an argument from
1:54
Speaker 1: both sides. You're only seeing the presentation from the prosecution.
1:59
Speaker 1: So it's very easy to get an indictment via a
2:03
Speaker 1: grand jury. But I've said it once and I'll say
2:05
Speaker 1: it a million times. The evidence that has been collected
2:08
Speaker 1: against Brian Colberger is overwhelming. And when it's pieced altogether
2:14
Speaker 1: and they start putting together slide shows and the rest
2:16
Speaker 1: of the stuff we just saw with Lori Valo, do
2:19
Speaker 1: you really think that they're not going to have everything
2:22
Speaker 1: that they need to not only get a conviction for
2:24
Speaker 1: Brian Colberger, but get a death penalty. Because I certainly
2:28
Speaker 1: think that's the way this is trending. But before we
2:31
Speaker 1: get there, obviously we have to have an indictment, and
2:34
Speaker 1: now we have it. So let's dive into this article
2:38
Speaker 1: from the Daily Mail and let's see what they have
2:41
Speaker 1: for us headline. Idaho murder suspect Brian Cohberger is indicted
2:46
Speaker 1: by secret grand jury and will enter a plea for
2:50
Speaker 1: gruesome quadruple killing on Monday, after pushing back his arraignment
2:54
Speaker 1: by more than six months. So Coburger has until Monday
2:58
Speaker 1: to figure out what he's going to do here, and
3:00
Speaker 1: all signs point to him pleading not guilty. This article
3:05
Speaker 1: was authored by Emma James. Suspected quadruple murderer Brian Koberger
3:10
Speaker 1: will appear in court on Monday after a grand jury
3:14
Speaker 1: indicted him. The twenty eight year old criminology student will
3:17
Speaker 1: have to enter a plea to the felony charges of
3:20
Speaker 1: murder he's accused of in Leayta County Court, Idaho. Leyta
3:25
Speaker 1: County clerk confirmed to the Daily Mail dot Com that
3:28
Speaker 1: a grand jury had indicted Coburger and he would appear
3:32
Speaker 1: on Monday at nine am. He is accused of murdering
3:36
Speaker 1: University of Idaho students Kaylee Gonsalvis Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle,
3:41
Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin on November thirteenth last year. The alleged
3:46
Speaker 1: killer was extradited from Pennsylvania to Idaho in January, but
3:50
Speaker 1: was not formally indicted on the four felony murder charges
3:54
Speaker 1: and burglary. And that's because he waived his right to
3:57
Speaker 1: a speedy trial. When you have a complex case like this,
4:00
Speaker 1: a lot of times you'll see people do that so
4:03
Speaker 1: they can formulate a better defense. He waived his right
4:07
Speaker 1: to a speedy preliminary hearing at the time, pushing it
4:10
Speaker 1: back six months until June. But the decision by the
4:13
Speaker 1: grand jury means there is no need for a preliminary hearing.
4:17
Speaker 1: This means that the surviving roommates will not have to
4:20
Speaker 1: face Coburger unless he pleads not guilty, which would mean
4:25
Speaker 1: the case would go to trial. So this also means
4:28
Speaker 1: that without that preliminary hearing coming up in June, we're
4:33
Speaker 1: not gonna know nowhere near as much as we thought,
4:36
Speaker 1: because now that this has moved to the grand jury,
4:39
Speaker 1: they're gonna keep all of those transcripts on the hush.
4:42
Speaker 1: I mean look at Jeffrey Epstein. We're talking about a
4:45
Speaker 1: grand jury that was unpaneled all the way back in
4:48
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, and we still haven't been able
4:51
Speaker 1: to get those transcripts. Now there is movement to get
4:53
Speaker 1: those released to the public, but it is very uncommon
4:57
Speaker 1: for the public to get a look at so what
5:00
Speaker 1: happens inside of her grand jury room. A grand jury
5:04
Speaker 1: hearing is not conducted in open court with sixteen members
5:07
Speaker 1: of the general public hearing evidence from the prosecution. The
5:11
Speaker 1: defendant and their legal team are not allowed to attend
5:14
Speaker 1: the hearing, but Coberger's legal team will receive a transcript
5:18
Speaker 1: of the proceedings. It comes after court documents revealed that
5:22
Speaker 1: Coburger's defense team were set to interview surviving roommate Bethany
5:27
Speaker 1: Funk after her lawyers argued that she should not have
5:31
Speaker 1: to testify at the preliminary hearing. Both sides came to
5:35
Speaker 1: an agreement that the defense would go to Funk for
5:38
Speaker 1: an interview in Nevada, dismissing a subpoena they issued. On
5:42
Speaker 1: April eleventh. Investigator Richard Battanti, who is working for Coburger's
5:47
Speaker 1: defense team, subpoenaed Funk on the basis that she may
5:51
Speaker 1: have exculpatory information. They claimed that the information she has
5:56
Speaker 1: is material and necessary to the alleged killer's defense, though
6:00
Speaker 1: it is unclear exactly what that is, and we're not
6:03
Speaker 1: going to know now until actual trial time. It looks
6:06
Speaker 1: like because without the prelim hearing and all of this
6:10
Speaker 1: being handled by the grand jury them serving the indictment,
6:14
Speaker 1: that really passes a hurdle for the prosecution here, and
6:18
Speaker 1: it also honestly avoids a spectacle. But Tanti wrote in
6:22
Speaker 1: an affid David, during the course of my investigation, it
6:26
Speaker 1: became known to me that she has information material to
6:30
Speaker 1: the charges against mister Coburger. He added that she disclosed
6:34
Speaker 1: things she heard and things she saw when interviewed by police,
6:38
Speaker 1: and was present when police were called. However, Funks lawyers
6:42
Speaker 1: hit back by saying that the preliminary hearing is not
6:45
Speaker 1: meant to become a mini trial and is only meant
6:48
Speaker 1: to decide probable cause. They also said the subpoena was
6:53
Speaker 1: improperly filed and there is no authority for an Idaho
6:57
Speaker 1: criminal defendant to summon a Nevada witness to Idaho for
7:01
Speaker 1: a preliminary hearing. As a potential witness, Funk can willingly
7:05
Speaker 1: testify in the hearings, but if she refuses, a subpoena
7:09
Speaker 1: can force her to attend court even if she does
7:12
Speaker 1: not want to. If a witness refuses to testify after
7:16
Speaker 1: being ordered to do so by a subpoena, they can
7:19
Speaker 1: be held in contempt of court and given a fine
7:22
Speaker 1: of five hundred dollars or twenty five days in jail.
7:25
Speaker 1: I'm paying the five hundred dollars. I don't know about you, folks,
7:28
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to jail. That's the last place
7:31
Speaker 1: I ever want to be. Imagine all those stanky ass
7:34
Speaker 1: people all over you. No room, no personal space, no
7:39
Speaker 1: thank you. However, they can invoke their Fifth Amendment rights
7:43
Speaker 1: while testifying at the hearing if it could implicate them
7:47
Speaker 1: in a crime. According to the statement of officer Brett Payne,
7:51
Speaker 1: both Funk and other surviving roommate Dylan Mortensen, were at
7:55
Speaker 1: home at the time of the homicides. So what Buttanti
7:59
Speaker 1: is saying here is that he found some evidence along
8:02
Speaker 1: the way in his investigation that doesn't line up with
8:06
Speaker 1: what Bret Payne was told. Remember that's what their investigator
8:10
Speaker 1: is saying. Do you put any stock in that any
8:13
Speaker 1: credit in that well, I don't know, but the grand
8:16
Speaker 1: jury certainly didn't put any stock in anything besides the
8:19
Speaker 1: evidence that's a mountain high that was in front of them.
8:23
Speaker 1: Funk's bedroom is described as being located on the east
8:26
Speaker 1: side of the first floor of the property, and she
8:29
Speaker 1: heard Ethan Chapin and Xana Kernodle return to the property
8:33
Speaker 1: at one forty five am on the night of the murders.
8:36
Speaker 1: Mortensen's account of seeing a tall man who was clad
8:39
Speaker 1: in black clothing and a mask is detailed in the document. However,
8:45
Speaker 1: Funk's version of events has not been publicly released, though
8:48
Speaker 1: both roommates phones were forensically downloaded by officers, leading them
8:53
Speaker 1: to believe the crimes occurred between four AM and four
8:57
Speaker 1: to twenty five AM. And we also have the fact
8:59
Speaker 1: that Zana got the door dash delivery right some jack
9:03
Speaker 1: in the box she was on her phone. They've already
9:05
Speaker 1: announced that, so I think we have the timeframe pretty
9:08
Speaker 1: much locked in as far as when these murders occurred.
9:12
Speaker 1: It is unclear what defense investigators feel could clear a Coburger.
9:16
Speaker 1: But if Funk's version of events contradicts that of Mortensen.
9:20
Speaker 1: It could play a key role in the trial. Again,
9:23
Speaker 1: we will not know now until the trial and when
9:26
Speaker 1: that's going to be. Who knows. These things get pushed
9:29
Speaker 1: back all the time, and we know that the gears
9:31
Speaker 1: of justice they grind slow as hell. A gag order
9:35
Speaker 1: also remains in place, preventing anyone connected to the case
9:39
Speaker 1: from speaking publicly, though an appeal to overturn this will
9:43
Speaker 1: be heard on May twenty fifth on behalf of the
9:45
Speaker 1: Associated Press and the Gonsalves family. Coburger is yet to
9:50
Speaker 1: enter a plea in the quadruple homicide and discharged with
9:53
Speaker 1: four counts of murder and one of burglary. It comes
9:57
Speaker 1: after it was revealed that his lawyer will be be
10:00
Speaker 1: paid two hundred dollars an hour with any additional overtime. Well,
10:05
Speaker 1: she deserves to make the money, right, she can't do
10:07
Speaker 1: it for free. And this is how our system is
10:09
Speaker 1: set up. As far as the pay scale, that's really
10:12
Speaker 1: not for me to decide. That's what the State of
10:14
Speaker 1: Idaho decided on. And hey, she's working within the parameters
10:18
Speaker 1: that were set out in the Constitution of the State
10:21
Speaker 1: of Idaho. And while I think that Brian Coberger is guilty.
10:25
Speaker 1: I think that a public defender that is presenting a
10:29
Speaker 1: robust defense the way Anne Taylor is, that's something to
10:32
Speaker 1: be applauded, honestly. And as far as how much money
10:35
Speaker 1: she's going to be making, well, she's going to be
10:37
Speaker 1: earning every last dollar because she has her work cut
10:40
Speaker 1: out for her here. Chief public Defender. Anne Taylor will
10:43
Speaker 1: be paid by Coutney County for her forty hour work week,
10:47
Speaker 1: with Leayta County agreeing to give the funds to Cootney
10:50
Speaker 1: County for her work, but any overtime she accrues outside
10:54
Speaker 1: of those hours will be paid by Leayta County directly
10:58
Speaker 1: to the attorney, with a second lawyer supporting Taylor in
11:01
Speaker 1: the case being paid one hundred and eighty dollars an hour.
11:05
Speaker 1: Taylor is representing the twenty eight year old criminal justice
11:08
Speaker 1: major after stepping down as the lawyer for Karen Northington,
11:11
Speaker 1: the mother of murdered Zana Kernodle, And to clarify, it
11:16
Speaker 1: was Ann Taylor's office that was representing miss Kernodle, so
11:20
Speaker 1: it wasn't Ann Taylor herself per se, but the office
11:24
Speaker 1: She was in charge of her case until January fifth,
11:26
Speaker 1: the same day that Coburger was extradited from his home
11:29
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania to Idaho. The lawyer is also accused of
11:33
Speaker 1: a second conflict of interest in the case, after it
11:37
Speaker 1: was revealed that she represented Matty Mogan's stepmother, Corey hat
11:41
Speaker 1: Rock in June twenty twenty two and oversaw US case
11:45
Speaker 1: involving her father, Benjamin in twenty twenty. Colberger's legal team
11:49
Speaker 1: filed a motion to compel discovery in the Leata County
11:53
Speaker 1: Court on May fourth. It reiterates previous requests made on
11:57
Speaker 1: February third and March twe twenty fourth. It seeks all
12:02
Speaker 1: body and dashcam footage from officers involved in his arrest
12:05
Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, all audio or video evidence from his time
12:09
Speaker 1: in jail, including police interrogations, lab reports from forensic evidence
12:15
Speaker 1: seized at his parents' home and his white Hondai A Lantra,
12:18
Speaker 1: and the training records for officers involved in the case.
12:22
Speaker 1: His latest legal filing comes after it was revealed that
12:25
Speaker 1: police found traces of blood and the secret storage jlocker
12:29
Speaker 1: at his apartment in Pullman, Washington, a fifteen minute drive
12:33
Speaker 1: from where the alleged murders took place. Well folks, there's
12:37
Speaker 1: a little bit of the mystery answered for us as
12:39
Speaker 1: far as what's going to happen with Brian Cohberger and
12:42
Speaker 1: what's going to happen as far as that preliminary hearing.
12:46
Speaker 1: But one thing we do know for sure is Brian
12:49
Speaker 1: Cohberger is no longer just a suspect in these murders.
12:53
Speaker 1: He has now been indicted by a grand jury and
12:56
Speaker 1: he will have to put a plea in come Monday.
12:59
Speaker 1: So on Monday rolls around, obviously we'll have a little
13:02
Speaker 1: more information about which way he's going to go as
13:05
Speaker 1: far as his plea, But we've all heard from Jump
13:08
Speaker 1: Street that he expects to be exonerated, so I would
13:11
Speaker 1: expect him to put in a plea of not guilty.
13:14
Speaker 1: Either way, We'll stay on top of it, folks, and
13:17
Speaker 1: as the information becomes available, we'll get it added to
13:20
Speaker 1: the catalog. All of the information for this episode can
13:24
Speaker 1: be found in the description box with What's up everyone,
13:28
Speaker 1: and welcome back to the program. Brian Coberger is alleging
13:34
Speaker 1: that over twenty four mistakes were made when he was
13:39
Speaker 1: indicted by the grand jury. Now, of course, the state
13:43
Speaker 1: of Idaho has something completely different to tell us, and
13:46
Speaker 1: in their version of events, Brian Coberger is doing nothing
13:50
Speaker 1: more than reaching for technicalities. Now it's going to come
13:54
Speaker 1: down to Judge Judge and his ruling in the upcoming days.
13:59
Speaker 1: But I don't see how Brian Kolberger and his team
14:02
Speaker 1: are going to get this indictment tossed out. There's nothing
14:05
Speaker 1: that's too irregular here and we know that because we've
14:08
Speaker 1: been going through the court documents. So going through those
14:11
Speaker 1: court documents, it gives us a blueprint and a bit
14:14
Speaker 1: of a look behind the scenes as to what's going on.
14:18
Speaker 1: So this isn't something that's catching us by surprise. And
14:22
Speaker 1: this is the same argument that Brian Kolberger has been
14:25
Speaker 1: making now for the last few weeks. So let's take
14:29
Speaker 1: a look at this article from Fox News and let's
14:32
Speaker 1: see what they came up with. Headline, Brian Koberger secretly
14:36
Speaker 1: alleges twenty four flaws and Idaho murders indictment in latest
14:40
Speaker 1: motion to dismiss Leta County Prosecutor. Bill Thompson has until
14:45
Speaker 1: Wednesday to file a response. And I can see Bill
14:49
Speaker 1: Thompson now with that beer to his flipping in the
14:52
Speaker 1: wind as he's banging away on his keyboard filing that response.
14:56
Speaker 1: The author of this article is Michael Ruiz, lawyers for
15:02
Speaker 1: the suspected Idaho student killer Brian Kolberger, aiming to dismiss
15:06
Speaker 1: the indictment against him. Are alleging grand jury bias, inadmissible
15:11
Speaker 1: and insufficient evidence, and prosecutorial misconduct. And those are some
15:16
Speaker 1: heavy and big allegations, and when you're making those kind
15:19
Speaker 1: of allegations, you better have the evidence that backs it up.
15:24
Speaker 1: Big accusations require big evidence, and if they're basing those
15:29
Speaker 1: allegations on what we have seen so far as far
15:32
Speaker 1: as the process, then they're going to fall short. So
15:36
Speaker 1: they better produce some evidence of the stuff that they're
15:38
Speaker 1: talking about, and they better have some damn good examples
15:42
Speaker 1: for the judge to see, because if you don't have
15:45
Speaker 1: the precedent and you're not coming correct with all of
15:49
Speaker 1: the information, you're going to get absolutely skewered by the
15:52
Speaker 1: judge and by the prosecutors. And that goes both ways.
15:57
Speaker 1: If the prosecutors come unprepared, they're gonna get hammered by
16:01
Speaker 1: Ann Taylor. Ann Taylor is not a bad attorney, and
16:04
Speaker 1: neither is Jay Logsden. These are good attorneys who know
16:08
Speaker 1: what they're doing, so the prosecution better beyond their shit.
16:13
Speaker 1: I'm just saying what I have seen so far. I
16:16
Speaker 1: haven't seen any kind of prosecutorial misconduct. Now there might
16:20
Speaker 1: be something behind the scenes under seal or something like
16:24
Speaker 1: that that we're not privy to, but the process so
16:27
Speaker 1: far has been more than fair to Brian Coberger in
16:31
Speaker 1: my opinion. In a Wednesday filing, defense attorney Jay Logsden
16:36
Speaker 1: revealed that Coberger's team was raising twenty four issues in
16:40
Speaker 1: support of the allegations. However, the memorandum, including those details,
16:45
Speaker 1: was filed under seal, and just about everything that we've
16:49
Speaker 1: seen in this case has been filed under seal. There's
16:53
Speaker 1: a non dissemination order hanging over the case that we
16:56
Speaker 1: all know about. And then of course there's things that
16:59
Speaker 1: are not for us to see yet as far as
17:02
Speaker 1: the public that are being filed and that are going
17:05
Speaker 1: on behind the scenes, and there's a lot of reasons
17:09
Speaker 1: for that. You want to have integrity in the trial,
17:12
Speaker 1: you want to make sure that you know nothing's leaking out,
17:15
Speaker 1: and that's all part of that gag order. That was
17:17
Speaker 1: the intent and purpose. And when I say that the
17:20
Speaker 1: process has been relatively fair, for Brian Koberger, this is
17:24
Speaker 1: what I mean. And if you need some context, just
17:26
Speaker 1: look how the officials and the authorities are talking about
17:29
Speaker 1: rex Ywerman, calling them a demon and ogre all sorts
17:33
Speaker 1: of stuff. You haven't heard any of that from the
17:36
Speaker 1: prosecutors over here in Idaho. And if the Idaho courts
17:40
Speaker 1: didn't have such a transparent process as far as the
17:43
Speaker 1: court documents, we'd be in the dark for most of
17:47
Speaker 1: this stuff. But considering we're getting a little looksie with
17:50
Speaker 1: the court documents, we can piece things together. Even when
17:53
Speaker 1: things are redacted, we understand what direction at least the
17:57
Speaker 1: ship is sailing Insecutors whom Coburger's team is accusing of
18:02
Speaker 1: withholding exculpatory evidence have until Wednesday to respond, and emotion
18:08
Speaker 1: hearing is scheduled for September first, so they're all gonna
18:12
Speaker 1: have to bring their information, their evidence in front of
18:15
Speaker 1: the judge and judge judge is going to make a
18:18
Speaker 1: decision one way or the other. But I just don't
18:22
Speaker 1: know what sort of new information Coburger and his team
18:26
Speaker 1: have brought to light that would make this something where
18:29
Speaker 1: the judge is like, all right, hold on, there's been
18:31
Speaker 1: serious prosecutorial misconduct here, and we have to throw this
18:35
Speaker 1: whole case out. Mistrial dismissed. I mean, is that what
18:39
Speaker 1: Brian Coberger's team is really relying on? It sure seems
18:43
Speaker 1: like that's what they're relying on, considering they've brought nothing
18:46
Speaker 1: really to the table, no witness for the alibi, nobody
18:49
Speaker 1: to corroborate it. Never mind the DNA on the knife sheath.
18:53
Speaker 1: How the hell you're gonna explain that one. So they're
18:55
Speaker 1: looking at an uphill battle. And when you're looking at
18:58
Speaker 1: this kind of battle, as I've said a million times now,
19:02
Speaker 1: it's a game of technicalities and loopholes. That is all
19:06
Speaker 1: you have to go on. At a hearing on Friday
19:09
Speaker 1: August eighteenth, Coberger's team sought to discredit DNA evidence in
19:14
Speaker 1: the case and called expert witnesses from across the country.
19:18
Speaker 1: In a probable cause affid David made public in January,
19:22
Speaker 1: prosecutors revealed key evidence used to obtain the initial warrant
19:26
Speaker 1: for Coburger's arrest. A subsequent superseding indictment, however, presented evidence
19:32
Speaker 1: to grand jurors behind closed doors. Now a superseded indictment
19:36
Speaker 1: for those of you who might not be hip is
19:38
Speaker 1: when they go back and they add some charges to
19:41
Speaker 1: your original indictment. So they'll go back, they'll supersede the indictment,
19:45
Speaker 1: and they'll either add charges or update the charges that
19:48
Speaker 1: are already slapped to your ass And that's what they
19:51
Speaker 1: did to Brian Coolberger by impaneling the grand jury and
19:54
Speaker 1: getting that indictment via the grand jury. According to the
19:59
Speaker 1: affid David police responded to a house near the University
20:03
Speaker 1: of Idaho campus on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, and
20:07
Speaker 1: found four students dead, Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle,
20:13
Speaker 1: and Ethan Chapin. All four had been stabbed multiple times.
20:19
Speaker 1: Some of them were asleep at the start of the massacre.
20:22
Speaker 1: Investigators say there was a knife sheath with Coburger's DNA
20:26
Speaker 1: on it under Mogan's body. How do you explain that? Like,
20:30
Speaker 1: I really wish that there was some kind of logical,
20:33
Speaker 1: tangible explanation for that where I could give this dude
20:37
Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt, but it's just not present.
20:39
Speaker 1: There is nothing here for me to look at this
20:42
Speaker 1: and say, look, man, this dude might be innocent. I
20:45
Speaker 1: think they got the wrong guy. In fact, it's the opposite.
20:49
Speaker 1: The more we learn about Brian Koberger, the more we
20:52
Speaker 1: learn about what's in these warrants, the more I think
20:55
Speaker 1: that he's the right guy and that the authorities found
20:59
Speaker 1: the person was responsible for murdering Zana Ethan Madison and
21:04
Speaker 1: Kayley Cohberger, who attended the neighboring Washington State University in
21:10
Speaker 1: pursuit of a PhD in criminology, drove a white Hondai
21:14
Speaker 1: a Lantra, the same type of car investigators identified as
21:19
Speaker 1: the suspect vehicle, and allegedly turned his phone off before
21:22
Speaker 1: heading two and from the crime scene. According to the affet, David,
21:26
Speaker 1: and then it's all the other little stuff, right the
21:29
Speaker 1: phone pinging, the fact that it pinged at this house
21:32
Speaker 1: multiple times months in advance, then it pings again on
21:37
Speaker 1: the morning of the murders near the house. Yeah, that's
21:41
Speaker 1: a coincidence, huh. I mean maybe if you're having an
21:44
Speaker 1: argument on Reddit, but in the real world, inside of
21:47
Speaker 1: a courtroom, you better come correct. And those jurors are
21:51
Speaker 1: gonna want to know how you got to the point
21:53
Speaker 1: where you got to, and they want to see your work.
21:57
Speaker 1: Police citing phone records also alleged that he stalked the
22:01
Speaker 1: victims home on a dozen occasions before the murders, and
22:05
Speaker 1: drove by once more hours afterwards. Now, what would be
22:09
Speaker 1: the motivation in that going to check out your handiwork?
22:13
Speaker 1: We know a lot of serial killers do that sort
22:15
Speaker 1: of thing. They want to be involved, They'll be part
22:17
Speaker 1: of the investigation, they'll try and be part of the
22:20
Speaker 1: search party. All of that jazz, And could that be
22:24
Speaker 1: what Coberger was doing? Who knows. What we do know
22:27
Speaker 1: is that, according to the authorities, his phone pinged back
22:30
Speaker 1: at this house hours after these murders occurred. Grand jurors
22:34
Speaker 1: could have been shown different or more in depth evidence
22:37
Speaker 1: behind closed doors before agreeing to the indictment. And I
22:41
Speaker 1: think that is very very likely. I think that we
22:44
Speaker 1: only know a little bit about what's going on, and
22:47
Speaker 1: even less than that about what happened in the grand
22:50
Speaker 1: jurors room. You want to talk about secretive, That's what
22:53
Speaker 1: grand jury proceedings are, very very secretive, and very few
22:59
Speaker 1: times do we ever know what happened inside of a
23:02
Speaker 1: grand jury room. But I'm guessing that the prosecutors showed
23:06
Speaker 1: them some pretty damning evidence. Now, to be fair, it's
23:10
Speaker 1: not that difficult to get an indictment via grand jury.
23:14
Speaker 1: And the saying is in the world of lawyers is
23:16
Speaker 1: that you can get a ham sandwich indicted by a
23:20
Speaker 1: grand jury. Now, obviously that's a bit of hyperbole, but
23:24
Speaker 1: you get the point. It's not as difficult to get
23:28
Speaker 1: that indictment by a grand jury as it is during
23:31
Speaker 1: a preliminary hearing. So while I get the argument being
23:34
Speaker 1: made by Coburger, I find it the fall on deaf ears,
23:37
Speaker 1: because the process is what the process is. A grand
23:41
Speaker 1: jury is a tool for a prosecutor to use to
23:44
Speaker 1: try and get an indictment, and that's exactly what the
23:47
Speaker 1: prosecutors did here. They used a grand jury to get
23:51
Speaker 1: their indictment. Nobody's been convicted yet. Brian Coberger is going
23:54
Speaker 1: to have his day in front of the judge, in
23:57
Speaker 1: front of the jury. The judge entered guilty please on
24:01
Speaker 1: Coburger's behalf at his arrayment in May. Coberger previously said
24:06
Speaker 1: through a public defender where he was arrested in Pennsylvania
24:09
Speaker 1: that he looked forward to being exonerated. On Wednesday, he
24:14
Speaker 1: waved his right to a speedy trial, postponing proceedings that
24:17
Speaker 1: would have begun next month. He faces four charges, a
24:22
Speaker 1: first degree murder and a felony burglary count. If he
24:25
Speaker 1: is convicted, the maximum penalty could be death by firing squad.
24:30
Speaker 1: Well we know how the Gonsalba his family feels about that.
24:33
Speaker 1: But if Brian Coberger does get the death penalty, they're
24:37
Speaker 1: going to try and make it by lethal injection. And
24:40
Speaker 1: the reason that firing squad has been brought back on
24:43
Speaker 1: as the means of capital punishment in Idaho is because
24:46
Speaker 1: of the issue getting some of the chemicals for the
24:50
Speaker 1: lethal injection. So if they can't get the chemicals, then
24:53
Speaker 1: they'll move on to the next step, and that next
24:55
Speaker 1: step happens to begin and end in a hell of bullets.
25:00
Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's gonna do it for this one.
25:02
Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
25:05
Speaker 1: be found in the description box. Everyone, and welcome back
25:09
Speaker 1: to the program. In this episode, we're going to keep
25:12
Speaker 1: the conversation going and we're going to continue talking about
25:16
Speaker 1: Brian Cohberger and the superseded indictment that was just dropped
25:21
Speaker 1: on them by a grand jury. And of course there
25:24
Speaker 1: are some people that are in favor of the move
25:27
Speaker 1: and there are some people that are non in favor
25:29
Speaker 1: of the move, and me personally, as I've said several
25:32
Speaker 1: times now, I don't really care for grand juries overall
25:36
Speaker 1: for all of the reasons that I've stated numerous times.
25:39
Speaker 1: But if that's the way the State of Idaho has
25:42
Speaker 1: decided to handle this, then I would guess that they
25:45
Speaker 1: have their reasons for doing so. But there's no debate
25:49
Speaker 1: that it certainly takes a lot of transparency away from
25:52
Speaker 1: the case, and this case already had a lack of
25:55
Speaker 1: transparency due to the gag order, So that makes it
25:58
Speaker 1: even more crucial to follow along with the core documents
26:02
Speaker 1: behind the scenes, right because if we follow along with
26:05
Speaker 1: those core documents, then we at least have an idea
26:08
Speaker 1: or a template of what's going on as far as
26:12
Speaker 1: the battle between the prosecution and the defense behind the scenes. Well,
26:17
Speaker 1: today we have an article from the Idaho Statesman discussing
26:21
Speaker 1: the grand jury and the concerns that the editorial board
26:25
Speaker 1: from the Idaho Statesmen have with the process. So let's
26:29
Speaker 1: dive right into this article from the Idaho Statesman and
26:32
Speaker 1: let's see what's up. Headline, secrecy of Coburger's grand jury
26:37
Speaker 1: keeps the community in the dark even longer. This article
26:41
Speaker 1: was authored by the editorial board of The Idaho Statesman.
26:46
Speaker 1: From day one, information about the killings of four University
26:50
Speaker 1: of Idaho students last November has been lacking, and community
26:54
Speaker 1: members have been misled or kept in the dark. And
26:58
Speaker 1: when this was all first starting, remember that was my
27:00
Speaker 1: biggest concern, the fact that there was so much miscommunication
27:04
Speaker 1: and the fact that no information was being divulged to
27:08
Speaker 1: the public, and there was the chance that this mass
27:11
Speaker 1: murderer was still running around in Idaho. So they were
27:14
Speaker 1: coming out with all of these statements at the beginning
27:18
Speaker 1: and then walking statements back, having to go back and
27:21
Speaker 1: readjust what they said. And there's no doubt that they
27:23
Speaker 1: cleaned it up as they moved on. And once they
27:26
Speaker 1: started doing the updates, you know, daily updates as far
27:30
Speaker 1: as press releases, that's when they started to clean the
27:33
Speaker 1: language up a little bit. But when they were giving
27:35
Speaker 1: all of those interviews in the very beginning, there was
27:38
Speaker 1: a bunch of conflicting conversation going on as far as
27:41
Speaker 1: what the officials were letting out and into the public sphere.
27:46
Speaker 1: Remember when police first responded to the scene of the
27:49
Speaker 1: off campus house in Moscow where they found the four
27:52
Speaker 1: students stabbed to death. They communicated to the public that
27:56
Speaker 1: there is no imminent threat to the community at large,
28:00
Speaker 1: even though whoever killed those students was still on the loose,
28:03
Speaker 1: meaning there was indeed an imminent threat to the community
28:07
Speaker 1: at large. And they really shot themselves in the foot
28:10
Speaker 1: in the beginning of this investigation, and that's because they
28:14
Speaker 1: were ill prepared. Let's just be honest. A small town
28:16
Speaker 1: like Moscow, they never dealt with anything like this. And
28:19
Speaker 1: once the FBI showed up on the scene and started
28:22
Speaker 1: to wrangle things and get things, you know, into perspective
28:25
Speaker 1: if you will, things started to calm down. But at
28:28
Speaker 1: the very beginning things were super chaotic. It's targeted, it's
28:32
Speaker 1: not targeted. There's no threat to the community. There's a
28:35
Speaker 1: threat to the community. So people were very confused, and
28:39
Speaker 1: of course people were scared. It took days to even
28:41
Speaker 1: hold a press conference to inform the community the basics
28:45
Speaker 1: of what police had discovered, something Moscow Police Chief James
28:49
Speaker 1: Frye has admitted was a misstep. Yeah, no shit. There
28:53
Speaker 1: should have been a news conference right away that day.
28:56
Speaker 1: They should have went up there and talked about what happened,
28:58
Speaker 1: what was going down, And it's very important, especially right
29:02
Speaker 1: in the aftermath of a crime like this, to have
29:05
Speaker 1: the community involved as much as possible. Now, of course
29:08
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you divulge all the information you have
29:11
Speaker 1: or the evidence you have, but getting the community involved
29:15
Speaker 1: is a good idea, and we saw how it paid
29:17
Speaker 1: off in spades with the Hondai a Lantra. Right, So
29:21
Speaker 1: the police and the investigators they have to toe the
29:23
Speaker 1: line and they have to figure out what is going
29:26
Speaker 1: to be helpful to release and what they have to
29:29
Speaker 1: hold back. The vacuum created by a lack of public
29:32
Speaker 1: information led to wild speculation and rumors, doing further damage
29:37
Speaker 1: to the victims and their families. Even after the arrest
29:41
Speaker 1: of Brian Coberger in December, the dearth of information continued.
29:45
Speaker 1: The judge in the case issued a broad gag order,
29:48
Speaker 1: leaving more questions unanswered. To make matters worse, we learned
29:53
Speaker 1: this week that prosecutors used a grand jury, a secret process,
29:57
Speaker 1: to indict Coburger. Now there's going to be people who
30:01
Speaker 1: defend Coburger who say that the reason they use this
30:04
Speaker 1: grand jury is because they don't have enough evidence to
30:07
Speaker 1: convict them. So that's why they decided to go to
30:10
Speaker 1: a grand jury and not follow through with the prelim hearing.
30:14
Speaker 1: I don't buy that. I think that the evidence is tight.
30:17
Speaker 1: I think the evidence is strong, and unless there's some
30:20
Speaker 1: sort of bombshell that we haven't heard yet that the
30:23
Speaker 1: defense has up their sleeve like Houdini, I don't see
30:26
Speaker 1: how Brian Cohlberger makes it out of this one without
30:29
Speaker 1: a trip to the hangman's noose. Using your grand jury
30:32
Speaker 1: allows prosecutors to move forward with the case without disclosing
30:36
Speaker 1: details publicly. It's a perfectly legal thing to do, of course,
30:40
Speaker 1: but now a community that has been waiting for answers
30:44
Speaker 1: will have to wait even longer. And I've had many
30:47
Speaker 1: many emails from people who live in Moscow or who
30:50
Speaker 1: have lived in Moscow who are saying the same thing
30:53
Speaker 1: that they want this process to move along. The last
30:56
Speaker 1: thing they want is for this to drag on the
30:58
Speaker 1: way the Lori Valosit situation did. A preliminary hearing would
31:03
Speaker 1: have been a chance for the community to learn from
31:05
Speaker 1: police and prosecutors some idea of what happened and how
31:09
Speaker 1: the investigation played out. Instead, the prosecution has chosen to
31:13
Speaker 1: hide the details for another year or more until Coburger's
31:17
Speaker 1: trial begins. Even though some information about Coburger has since
31:22
Speaker 1: been learned, much is still unknown, and what we do
31:25
Speaker 1: know is rumor or innuendo for the most part. Sure,
31:29
Speaker 1: we have heard from people who knew Brian Coburger. We
31:31
Speaker 1: heard from people who went on dates with him, or
31:34
Speaker 1: he was their TA or whatever. But as far as
31:37
Speaker 1: official sources talking about Brian Cohberger, no way. Because of
31:41
Speaker 1: the gag order, that's not going to happen. And now
31:44
Speaker 1: with this moving into a grand jury scenario where he
31:48
Speaker 1: was indicted by the grand jury, there's no doubt that
31:51
Speaker 1: it's going to take some time for us to get
31:53
Speaker 1: more answers. We still don't know what police are asserting
31:57
Speaker 1: Coburger's motives might have been. We don't know whether the
32:00
Speaker 1: police think Coburger targeted one of the students in particular,
32:04
Speaker 1: or if he did why. We still don't know how
32:06
Speaker 1: the police found Coburger or how they did their work
32:10
Speaker 1: to connect him to the deaths. They say that he caused.
32:14
Speaker 1: The only reason that people of Moscow and the students
32:17
Speaker 1: at the University of Idaho right now have to believe
32:20
Speaker 1: that the killer is in custody is from police convincing
32:23
Speaker 1: them that he did it a preliminary hearing laying out
32:26
Speaker 1: at least part of the case was the chance to
32:29
Speaker 1: let the community know, and the state passed on the
32:32
Speaker 1: opportunity by going with the grand jury. Nobody should be
32:35
Speaker 1: shocked by that. The State of Idaho has shown us
32:38
Speaker 1: so far that it really doesn't care about transparency. What
32:41
Speaker 1: they're looking for here is a conviction, and they're going
32:44
Speaker 1: to use every single tool in their toolbox to make
32:47
Speaker 1: sure that no information is getting out When it comes
32:51
Speaker 1: to Brian Colberger and his trial, police and prosecutors did
32:55
Speaker 1: not do a thorough job disclosing information right from the
32:58
Speaker 1: start and continued to Secrecy often does little to restore trust.
33:03
Speaker 1: Some will say that releasing too much information creates a
33:06
Speaker 1: feeding frenzy. The opposite is true. When information is withheld,
33:11
Speaker 1: that's when imaginations run wild, when speculation and rumors are rampant,
33:16
Speaker 1: when people feel the need to dig. They are not
33:19
Speaker 1: wrong about that. When people feel like they're getting hosed,
33:23
Speaker 1: when people feel like the government is not being transparent
33:26
Speaker 1: or they're hiding something, it's going to make more people
33:30
Speaker 1: want to know why the government is in being forthright,
33:32
Speaker 1: and of course people are going to start to dig.
33:36
Speaker 1: And then when there's a lack of transparency like we
33:39
Speaker 1: have seen in a case like Jeffrey Epstein's, for example,
33:42
Speaker 1: what happens is it makes it a fertile ground for
33:45
Speaker 1: a bunch of conspiracy theories to take root and then grow.
33:49
Speaker 1: And by the time that starts happening, the transparency doesn't
33:52
Speaker 1: even matter at that point because the waters are so muddied.
33:56
Speaker 1: So the best idea is to be transparent from the
33:59
Speaker 1: very beginning, disclosed as much information as possible without jeopardizing
34:03
Speaker 1: your case, and keep the public informed of what's going on.
34:07
Speaker 1: Others may suggest that releasing too much information would make
34:11
Speaker 1: it harder to find an untainted jury pool. There may
34:14
Speaker 1: be some truth to that, but that doesn't outweigh the
34:17
Speaker 1: importance of informing a community that is waiting for answers.
34:23
Speaker 1: And I don't know so much about the tainted jury
34:25
Speaker 1: pool stuff these days. With how connected we are as
34:28
Speaker 1: far as technology, does it really matter if somebody lives
34:31
Speaker 1: in Boise or if somebody lives down in Layta County.
34:34
Speaker 1: What the hell's the difference at this point? Now, of course,
34:37
Speaker 1: you don't want somebody directly connected to what happened, a
34:40
Speaker 1: family member or something like that, and getting jurors from
34:43
Speaker 1: an outside county is a good idea, but moving the
34:47
Speaker 1: venue no way. This has to be held in Layta County.
34:51
Speaker 1: And my personal opinion is the whole tainted pool thing
34:55
Speaker 1: is way overblown, and I think that the technology is
34:59
Speaker 1: the reason why. Of course it's important to have jurors
35:02
Speaker 1: who are not tainted, right, But what I'm saying is
35:06
Speaker 1: I don't think that you're going to be able to
35:07
Speaker 1: find somebody, say in Boise, who has been following along
35:12
Speaker 1: less than somebody who's locally This is one of those stories,
35:16
Speaker 1: especially in the interconnected world that we live in, that
35:19
Speaker 1: everybody's following along with a preliminary hearing would have been
35:25
Speaker 1: a better path in this case. The secrecy of a
35:27
Speaker 1: grand jury just leaves the people of Moscow and beyond
35:31
Speaker 1: to wonder, guess, and speculate, and that's not good for anyone.
35:36
Speaker 1: And in general I agree with them. I don't think
35:38
Speaker 1: that a grand jury is the right way to go here.
35:41
Speaker 1: But my guess is, like I said earlier, that they
35:44
Speaker 1: have some sort of strategy that they're going to unferl
35:47
Speaker 1: and using the grand jury to get that indictment was
35:50
Speaker 1: the first part of it. So we'll see what happens
35:53
Speaker 1: from here. And it's going to be one of those
35:55
Speaker 1: situations where there's not going to be much information coming
35:59
Speaker 1: out as far as from official sources, but every last
36:03
Speaker 1: piece that comes out, every breadcrumb that's dropped, will collect
36:08
Speaker 1: it and will continue leaving a pathway so that we
36:11
Speaker 1: can find our path through the muck and into clarity.
36:17
Speaker 1: All Right, folks, that's gonna do it for this one.
36:19
Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with the episode can
36:22
Speaker 1: be found in the description box.