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Mythmakers Encore: The Wonderful Worlds Of TA White · Mythmakers

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  Hello and welcome to MythMakers. MythMakers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy
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  creatives brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy. My name is Julia Golding. I'm
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  an author but I also am the director of the Centre. And today I can't tell you how delighted
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  I am to have TA White with us, who is an author of many absolutely wonderful fantasy
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  series. I'm saying this as a genuine fan as well as somebody who admires her as another
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  author. So thank you so much Toby for coming to be with us today. No problem. I'm happy
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  to be here. So Toby, you sort of stand out to me as a writer because you have written
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  in many genres within fantasy. So perhaps for those who aren't familiar with what you
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  do, we should have a little gallop through your series, just give us a sense. So why did
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  you start as a writer? What was the first series that you produced? So the first published
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  series is different from the first series I started. The first book I wrote, I will
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  probably never make it into anybody else's hands except my friends and family who were
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  around when I wrote it. The first published book would have been a dragon ridden with the
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  dragon ridden chronicles. It's a very difficult genre to describe because I didn't really obey
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  genre norms but it's kind of like fantasy with sci-fi elements or sci-fi with fantasy elements
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  depending on who you ask. So that was where I started and it just went off of a dream
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  and it was a very sci-fi-esque chapter one went to a different direction which was much more
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  fantasy. So that's where I started and then because I can't think easy on myself, I kind
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  of transitioned to high fantasy with my Pathfinders or the Broken Land series and then from there
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  I went to urban fantasy to sci-fi, like straight sci-fi. So it's, I kind of just write what
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  I want. For the urban fantasy series, is that the Eileen Travers series? Yes, the Eileen Travers
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  is the urban fantasy and then the firebird chronicles is more of my sci-fi with a couple of fantastical
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  elements to it. Yeah, so I mean I suppose an interesting question for anyone who's got their
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  hands on an author to ask them is is there a sort of particular thing that started you off as a
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  fantasy writer? I was noticing that you talked on your website about starting writing very young
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  with a partner who then threw her biscuits at you. What happened there? So I was like that would
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  have been when we lived in North Carolina but I was like in second first grade and I couldn't,
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  I had a little, I struggled to learn to read which meant I struggled to learn to write and so at
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  that age, like I really wanted to write a ghost story and I had to partner up with somebody who
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  was a little bit older like a year or two older than me because I couldn't do it for myself and
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  like we did it for a day and a half and then they were like I'm bored with this, I don't want to
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  do it and I got really mad and I maybe threw a cookie at her. I was really young. Okay,
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  that way, Matt. And it was there a particular book once you did get into reading. Was there a
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  particular book? It's far too to follow your path. Yeah, it's kind of funny because I started
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  wanting to write before I could actually really like before I started liking to read and then Nancy
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  Drew and third grade the second time around was the book that got me into reading but the book
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  that got me into fantasy was Tamara Puris the woman who walks like a man. It's the third
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  in the series but I was living in in Okinawa because my dad was stationed there and they didn't have
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  the first two books in the series at that library so I started with the third and it just kind of,
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  it was the first time I realized that fantasy could be like this really fun genre that's about
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  real things but told in a different way and that you can have real life problems but with magic
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  and other things mixed in with it to just make it a little bit more interesting. Is that the
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  Alana series? The Alana Chronicles. Have you read the Kel ones? I have Caladri. She's my favorite
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  the protector of the small. I actually think I like her a little bit more than Atlanta because
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  Alana had like magic to fall back on and she had the goddess. She was like kind of a chosen one
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  but you don't find that out to like the second book. I think whereas Caladri or Kel, she was,
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  she's just a normal person who went after their dream and had to work very, very hard to make
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  that happen and I really like stories where you have to like it's not just given to you and you're
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  not just special. You have to actually work to be the person you want and to achieve your dream so
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  that's that's like my favorite of her series. Yeah and I absolutely love that one of the books
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  is all about how to manage a refugee camp for internally displaced people. Right. Yeah,
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  that was in your marriage too. It's right up my street as a former development aid worker
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  and also it's just such a breath of fresh air after all these big battles things. What happens
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  to the civilians, you know, very, very poignant and they're great books. So another book recommendation
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  for listeners is to go and explore the tomorrow's best back library. So what was your journey to
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  being an actual published author after the biscuits rowing episode? Well, it was kind of like a long
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  circulatory journey. Like I, in high school there was this, we had where I went to high school,
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  you had a senior thesis project that you had to do to graduate and it had to haven't written
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  elements. So I decided to write a book and that's the book that nobody will ever see.
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  So I wrote that book and then I went to college for journalism at the Ohio University
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  Script School Journalism because I figured I could work on my craft while having a full-time job
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  and then I graduated and nobody was hiring. So my mom told me to join the military which I did
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  and to do public affairs for them which I did. So the first time after that was, I was in
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  Afghanistan and it's kind of a situation where you're in a very small area and you can't go anywhere
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  except for our missions which I did but you're stuck in a one place and you don't have the distractions
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  of being in like the United States to take away from your creativity and there is a point where you
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  don't want to read any more books and you don't want to watch any more TV shows and it had
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  always been my dream to be a writer so I figured hey I'm here for a year why not write a book
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  and that's what I did and that's where Dragon Ridden Chronicles came. And Pathfinder a little
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  bit I had the idea for Pathfinder while I was there and actually that probably sparked a lot
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  of the ideas in Pathfinder so that was kind of when I started and it took me like a year and a half
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  two years to get that book like done and edited and to a point where I felt comfortable releasing
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  it to the public. That is absolutely fascinating that was a brilliant story in itself and it also
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  explains the island Travis backstory. Those three years were very instrumental in forming me as a
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  person so a lot of my books draws from that as like the creative incentive because you went you
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  go through a lot in a very short period of time and you kind of find out what you are and then
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  when you have to write these other things that draw on the military it's just a little bit easier
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  so yeah aileen aileen is like a product of me coming home and some of the anger and upset that I
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  had and how disconnected I felt to being home like some of the conversations she has with her mom
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  are things that I've talked with about other people coming home as a soldier and how people think
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  you have PTSD and everybody's the same so yeah that was a big part of that character and why I wrote
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  her because it was kind of cathartic yeah and her her experience in the military is brilliantly
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  specific being the sort of the camera person who goes along with the the guys on patrol and I did
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  the thing oh this is this is really well researched and now I know why you know yeah I did do her
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  job I was more but I knew the guys who did her job like I was public affairs I did go on the
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  mission but it wasn't just to take photos like I took photos but it was also to get the story
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  and so the combat cameras I had a couple of friends who were combat camera and that was really
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  fun to talk to them and figure out how that job differed from mine yeah I think what's really
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  interesting about that experience is but most I would say that all of your heroines have a problem
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  with authority and it's up there and there's a particular thing with is it you call her alien
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  or alien alien alien but I think it's supposed to be okay um she she's well it's not not a plot spoiler
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  that she's a baby vampire a young vampire but she has had this past where she already probably was
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  in a authority structure which she had thought she'd left finding herself plunged into this one
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  where you have to be a hundred years before you're given you know you're a chance to go out on your
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  own at all uh so uh it makes it makes sense now totally makes sense so it's funny you say that
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  because like a lot of people who find out I was in the military are like I can't see you in the
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  military and like the first couple times that happened I kind of was like laughed it off and then
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  finally I was like why do people keep saying this to me is it because like I'm a girl and they're
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  like no because you have massive issues with authority and anytime anybody tells you what to do
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  you like push back you know like we can't see you being in a situation where you follow orders
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  and it's like okay well there's different sides to me so and I kind of put that into the books too
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  yeah well I like about the way you do that um so he says sort of diving across all the heroines now
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  is that you also point out cleverly how difficult it is to be with that person who is the rebel
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  um aliens case it's the the you know she's a difficult person to be a friend with even though she's
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  desperately loyal yeah so it goes to the extreme but her friend Caroline um you know she's quite
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  blunt with her is so you don't make it into the romantic rebel the sort of James Dean thing it's
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  very much her he's a square pegging around whole you know bruising a few people as she goes through
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  life it's no that's really that's what I think that's why I like your book so much actually because
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  often the the fantasy aspect is a sort of wonderful package around a really interesting set of
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  characters or or or express through them right yeah so that she she definitely ticks that box
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  so do you um is is writing what you do all the time or are you also exploring other forms of
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  creativity or because I think a lot of people who are aspiring writers want to know how do they
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  make it work do you you obviously been in the military but did you go straight from the military
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  into writing or was that a transition phase no yeah there was a transition phase like I do writing
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  full-time now um I'm very lucky in that I can support myself and my family with my writing
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  and just my writing but that was like five years in the making like I published dragon ridden
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  I think in like 2013 2014 and I didn't go full-time until several several years later and I
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  I worked in marketing for a company credit bureau type company and so I did that and then like
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  on the in the evenings like I write for an hour and a half two hours like I tried to get a thousand
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  to two thousand words like a couple of times a week and then I on the weekends would like write
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  double whatever the week uh thing was so uh I had to essentially it's like working two jobs
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  but it was to what I've always wanted to do it do since I was very small so I was happy to make
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  the um sacrifice and I kind of needed a purpose in my life and I felt like this was what I was put
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  on the planet to do was to tell stories and entertain people and give them a break from all the bad
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  things that might be going on in their life so yeah here here absolutely keep on writing please
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  mom can you tell me a story sure once upon a time a mom needed a new car was she brave she was tired
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  mostly but she went to carbonate.com and found a great car at a great price no secret treasure map
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  required did you have to find a dragon nope she bought it 100% online from her bed actually was it
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  scary honey it was as unscary as car mine could be did the car of a sunroof it did actually okay
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  good story. Car buying you'll want to tell stories about buy your car today on
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  Carvana delivery fees may apply so now on to the fantasy stuff which is kind of our race on
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  detour really um so you just recapping again you've written in many different um fantasy and
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  sci-fi subgenre as starting with dragon ridden the kind of sci-fi fantasy mashup um urban fantasy and
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  so on i understand that earth across genres because that's what i do as a writer as well but
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  do you i use up conscious of different rules in the different genres or does you just
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  you just know what you're doing when you're in there are you a sort of visitor who understands the
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  the culture of the place you're in or do you actually set yourself specific rules when you start
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  writing in a different genre so like i'm a fan of all the genres i work in like i read massively
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  in those or i did in those genres um so like with alien travelers that's urban fantasy like i read
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  i've read all the urban fantasy genre like authors that are really big and that's just like
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  Patricia Briggs, Alona and Drew's um and many many others but like i know the genre tropes that
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  come with that but the fun thing is like when you can reach those fans while bringing something new
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  to the to the table and i think that's why people like what i do um is because like i'm following
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  the genres but i'm doing it in a way that doesn't necessarily always isn't as widespread as maybe other
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  writers um because i know with like my frees a lot i get the comment that it's basically urban fantasy
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  in space and it makes sense because like i read a lot of urban fantasy authors um so that aspect
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  kind of has crept into my writing um so i i kind of just concentrate on like one whatever the genre is
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  but when i feel the need to break the rules i break i write what i want to read massively and so
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  i try to follow the rules and then like every once in a while i'm like i don't feel like following
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  these rules anymore um i guess that's my my even against authority coming coming out but
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  yeah so are you a planner or somebody who fills their way through the plot so when you sit down to
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  write your next let's say it's your next dragon ridden but do you already know what you're going to
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  do in it or is it very much okay i'm going to spend six months with tape now or if i go
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  okay it's a little bit of both like i always start with a plan i don't always sit to the plan and
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  that then to me come up with a new plan which during the course of which you're kind of feeling
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  your way in through the book like i know some things and then i have to figure out the rest like uh
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  like i'm working on the fourth firework book for the series right now so i i know several scenes
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  and i know how it's going to end but i just don't always know how those scenes connect and that's
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  like kind of the thing you figure out um and sometimes like you know what you want to happen but you
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  don't know the arc of what happens and then you have to like you write and write and write and then
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  you get to like a certain point where you hit critical mass and then you're like oh that's how
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  that's supposed to go and then you have to go and be do everything um but i don't feel like i could
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  get to that critical mass moment where it's like this epiphany unless i did a lot of like
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  feeling my way through so like like i said i start with a plan and then things go bad and i have
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  to figure out a new plan yeah i've had the experience in writing where i had a plan and then my
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  characters misbehaved and do something else when i'm writing the scene mid-scene they're running
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  off in a completely different direction is that an experience that's familiar oh yes uh that's
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  like pretty much every book at this point like it used to be a lot easier when i first started
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  i was much better at following the plan and then like i think around rules of redemption it's when
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  my writing kind of changed and i wrote the book i wanted to write rather than what the book wanted
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  to write um so you just have to be used to throwing things away and being okay when your characters
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  are like uh yeah that was a good idea but we're gonna go do this now and this is much more interesting
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  because like i feel that it takes a little bit of effort to get to the really good stuff and
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  sometimes you have to put out all the junk and then you kind of have to uncover the gems under
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  the junk so that's that's kind of how i do like it's a little bit exploratory with a goal in mind
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  i'd say that one thing that your books have in common across the all the genres and all the
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  series is and tell me if i'm wrong but um usually led by the heroine um who is usually
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  or usually lovable but difficult um and there's often a very slow burn romance it's not
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  not a remand it's over in the first book it builds and builds um do you tell us about your heroines
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  do you have some tips for writing characters that aren't like kuhi cutouts that actually feel
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  individuals uh so i don't know like because i i kind of i i give them a flaw like i i find the thing
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  that most people would find like super annoying and then i try to make that thing what it's great
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  about them but it's also like a drawback like with shea uh she's the heroine in the broken land
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  series pathfinder uh she she's really really good at her job and like we all know this throughout
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  the book but she's also really really bad at communicating with people and you have to be able to
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  communicate with people to get them to do what you want so you can save their lives and not have
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  them go kill themselves on accident um in this world i've created and that like was a big uh issue
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  with her throughout the series and she'd overcome that because you have to give them something
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  internal to overcome to really connect with the reader like in it i really enjoy uh people who are
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  flawed but that flaw is also a strength like shea as bad as she is with communicating she's also super
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  stubborn and she will do the things that other people won't because of that both of those things so
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  yeah she also has a deep desire to teach other people which kind of comes with the thing
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  bad at communicating is it's the kind of fingers burn situation isn't she she's tried and failed
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  and so she's keeping back um you know i think that's another part there is stars great i think
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  that's another thing like i always give them a back story that might be like they're inciting
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  incident of why they have this flaw like with shea it's uh she led a mission into the group
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  like the the outlands or the badlands that's what it is the badlands sorry um she led a mission into
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  the badlands and a lot of people died during that mission so she's kind of scarred on the inside
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  so you you have to give them like an emotional back story for people to like relate um and that
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  backstory fuels the events of the book with um cheera from the firebird series we see that
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  she was a commander in the military fighting against an alien invasion and almost her entire team
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  dies and it makes her like kind of curl into like a little ball and shut everybody out for years
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  on end until the events of the series and you see her start to come out of her cell um you have to
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  have both those things to make the reader feel like they're actually talking to a person or like
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  reading about a person versus something that's 2d and flat yeah what you do as well as you hold back
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  those back stories you know another book might start with you know the that as the the prologue
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  that you sometimes keep it back for a long long time i wanted in the case of Tate who is purposely
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  kept surrounding the act basically um when you started working her did you know what it was or were
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  you also at the same state of not knowing as your character so i i knew parts like i knew she wasn't
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  from the era i was writing in and i knew she'd been in the the cryos chamber for like centuries
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  slash sounds of beers so i knew that there was like a disconnect i did not know all of the things
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  that came out later i didn't know the part she played or the fact and i knew that she had friends
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  and she'd left behind that era and that's why like the ending you see one of those friends in the dream
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  but like i knew those but i didn't know all of it um so like i kind of made things up as i went along
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  yeah and that's the great thing about writing is it's kind of be a discovery process to what your
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  brain is suggesting subconsciously isn't it you know that's fun um you also i've noticed that you use
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  a sense of isolation and loneliness as a great starting point for your heroines because usually
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  uh again correct me if i missed one there is a process where your isolated heroine is
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  taken into a new form of family is this again something that felt will conscious choice
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  or was it something that jumped out right yeah um it's a little bit of both like i think
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  the reason that's like a huge scene throughout is because it's something i've suffered from
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  in the past like there have been instances where i felt isolated or cut off from
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  um the people around me and so i've been lucky enough to have people to bring me back into the
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  the the mix and not let me stay out in the cold bum so i think i think that because that's something
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  i really understand and i've just added it to the writing so like um and they all most of the
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  heroines like have been part of a group at some point and then something has isolated them
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  and then they come back and they learn that you can't really exist by yourself and you have to
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  like put yourself out there and take those chances um i didn't i didn't suffer from anything like that
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  but that's kind of like why they usually go in that path um yeah and thinking about this
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  sort of romance aspect which i said is is it you know it's definitely not the sort of um
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  you it's a book which you wait a long time for the relationship to build first
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  is is there any tips you can give people about writing a slow burn romance
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  from your experience of having to get this so i don't know if i have a place
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  so it's really weird in the heart this message it's not romantic in the heart some flowers
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  ways it's not it's not like a a notting hill kind of thing or anything like that but there is
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  definitely a attraction so for me like a really good story always involves like relationships
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  in some way and i i find i like to have them pair up by the end of this series but the book is
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  primarily about like whoever the main character has whether it's Shayah or Kira or Tay
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  um though their journey is the focus of the story but i want those journeys to also incorporate
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  having maybe a romantic partner um so like that's that i think that's like the biggest
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  uh way i do it is like the story is for instance with um Kira it's about finding her friend that's
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  been kidnapped by aliens um and then during the course of that journey she makes great on
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  and then eventually they become like he's not gonna let her just go and be by herself and kill
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  herself in this mission she's undertaken so they kind of but hadn't and they kind of come together
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  and realize they're on the same side um so i think that's the biggest thing is like have to let
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  them come to the realization slowly and uh some a very slow person when it comes to romance like
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  my husband and i dated for like three years before we got married it was a year before we said we
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  loved each other uh so it's it's something that i like i'm not the person who will like fall in love
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  i might be attracted but i'm gonna take my time getting to the realization and i wanted that to
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  be something that my characters had because um love isn't supposed to be easy it's it's supposed to be
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  a journey and i i think that's what i tried for in my books um i also don't do like uh trying love
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  triangles because i really i don't like them i'm like i'm very black and white in my care do uh once
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  you someone that's kind of like the only person in our my mind uh and my character's mind so that's
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  why i don't like to do like over together we're not together over and together we're not together
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  type things yeah i think for me um love triangles were kind of spoiled or exhausted maybe is the word
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  by the the twilight books when they were out and i thought oh no and there was a lot of other
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  similar books at the time so not another love triangle so yeah i'm with you there
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  so um i actually spend probably more time listening to your books and i do uh reading them
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  because i find them great for just listening to what i'm doing my dog walks and you know
• 27:48
  stacking the dishwasher and all those sort of household things um so what do you think about the audio
• 27:54
  books and the role they're now playing in bringing you new audiences do you for example do you have a
• 27:59
  say in who reads them so yes um i tanters the one who publishes my audience and i get the final say
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  like they will suggest narrators for me like do you like this narrator for this story and then i
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  have a yes or vote and if i don't like them they'll go find more um but i i have a very
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  confession to make i've never listened except for miss that's which i produced on my own i've never
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  actually listened to a full book of mine because i find it extremely grating hearing my words
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  read back to me so um i hope they're really good and people have said they are so no no no they
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  aren't they aren't they aren't they aren't good yeah yeah no so i think you can be you can rest
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  assured there then good ambassadors for your work and i do before even though i've read the books
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  i still will get the the audio version just because there i i think for me listening to audio
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  books i find it hard to listen to either a literary novel or a classic um some kind of dekins
• 29:07
  or something on audio but uh a well told fantasy novel like yours are just perfect audio listens
• 29:13
  they keep you you know you can follow the plot and keep you interested and also on my read of your
• 29:20
  website you mentioned that you have a secret project i don't want you you obviously i'm not asking
• 29:29
  you to have divulge what that is but are we talking about a new series are you starting something
• 29:34
  entirely new is that what's going on there that's that's yeah i i have like four or five series that
• 29:41
  have been in my brain for like a couple years now and i'm getting to the point where it's hard
• 29:46
  to find things to read you want to read is the books in my head um and that's what happened when i
• 29:51
  wrote firebird is like i had three series going and i knew i shouldn't do another series and um i
• 29:59
  couldn't i couldn't resist anymore i i wrote that book like mostly on the weekend um after i finished
• 30:06
  whatever the main book was for the week um and i'm getting to the point where i'm starting to
• 30:11
  wanting to take time from what i'm working on to to do this new stuff um so yeah there is
• 30:19
  stuff coming down the pipe and i'm really really excited for it um um i'm going back and forth
• 30:26
  i'm which one i'm going to burst but yeah i'm super super super excited how about that
• 30:32
  yes that's great you know i'll be amongst the customers buying it first so that's wonderful
• 30:38
  so one of the things that we do writing courses for people who are um sort of stretching their
• 30:44
  wings as fancy writers and we spend one at least one of our sessions of world building so when
• 30:51
  you do well-built building are you the kind of person who does the talking thing i was spending
• 30:56
  like ages building a whole world in a map and um i know that which is in all that stuff or uh well
• 31:05
  you tell us what you do um so i don't i don't spend a lot of time um on the world building like i
• 31:14
  will so the place in the setting in the world i do take time like with pathfinders i knew
• 31:20
  i wanted like this certain theme of outside writers versus insiders and us versus them
• 31:27
  and i and i thought how i can demonstrate to readers and i knew that there was this tribe called
• 31:34
  the triteri who are from this distant lands who are conquer things i wanted a clear to between
• 31:40
  the lowlands and the highlands and the badlands um but that was pretty much the extent like
• 31:47
  i didn't go through and say okay where are the major cities like i know that there's pathfinders
• 31:52
  have their own little castle somewhere in highlands but everything else is like okay i know i want
• 31:58
  these to be like very small villages that have been isolated from the world because of the situation
• 32:05
  which you learn about in the books um but i didn't go through and be like oh let's go name all of
• 32:11
  these these villages now before i even start writing it's kind of something where you
• 32:17
  you start writing and you're like okay well they have to go to this village to meet these people
• 32:21
  so what is village called what is it where is it located do they have a goods for the reason
• 32:28
  for being there like you have to have a reason for everything like you can't just have somebody
• 32:33
  go somewhere and be like very nice here's like all these really cool things you have to have a
• 32:37
  reason for being there and for them it was like trade um and then you kind of start going from
• 32:42
  there and then religion will come into it sometimes like based off like okay do you want
• 32:49
  religions in here okay what does that religion looks like what is the world what are their fears
• 32:54
  and then you go from there and you build it um as for the the language i kind of just like put
• 33:03
  syllables together and then that's like whatever the word is um and like i try to think about
• 33:10
  culturally like what is going to be important to this race i'm creating or the species um and i
• 33:16
  try to think about those kinds of things um but yeah thank you and i think i'd be a relief to some
• 33:24
  people who feel like who you know a lot of there are fancy marches to do the other way around
• 33:29
  obviously and spend ages on this and they can be quite daunting if you turn up a writing class
• 33:33
  and someone says yes here's my uh normal series i've been working on since i was 14 and they speak
• 33:38
  six languages and you know you don't have to do that is what you're saying you can be very sensitive
• 33:44
  i think i think it reads for me it reads better if you discover the interesting things about your
• 33:50
  world a little bit organically like you should start from a base you should have an idea of like
• 33:56
  the topography like the types of people like what's important to those people
• 34:02
  like if there's a real lot that in there you can you can kind of think about that beforehand
• 34:06
  but i'd prefer to let the the circumstances of the novel dictate what we're talking about like
• 34:13
  in um dragon and chronicles you have this religion but it's based on ancestor when that's because
• 34:20
  uh the people at the beginning of this world having to make sacrifices and everybody kind of
• 34:25
  worships those five three or four people um but they're people and it's not like
• 34:32
  and that's why that that religion has developed that way i i took the circumstances of the world
• 34:39
  and they developed something that made sense within the pyramid of that world and i think
• 34:44
  for me that's the best way to develop a world um other people will probably tell you something
• 34:51
  if i think it differs for every person but you have to find out what works um for me organically
• 34:57
  building the world and making it a little bit more complicated with each book that's what's
• 35:02
  really interesting about writing and reading fantasy and sci-fi yeah and i'm using a character to
• 35:09
  whom everything is new is a way of using that as a natural way of showing because they're discovering
• 35:14
  it too um so you don't get the download of information unnecessarily you know the other the other
• 35:21
  port that you can get right well it's been wonderful talking to you Toby and before we let you go
• 35:27
  back to your writing hopefully um we always end the podcast with wearing all the fantasy worlds
• 35:33
  is it best place for something now i came to your writing first through the pathfinder series
• 35:39
  in fact my daughter who's in the 20s said to me oh mom you know we often share booktips she said
• 35:44
  oh i really like this series i think you'll like it um which is true um so with i and uh share as
• 35:51
  you mentioned is very good at her job of finding a path and she has some maps some annotated maps
• 35:59
  and there's quite a theme about bad maps and her own good maps uh in the books so i thought i'd
• 36:05
  ask you to pick not your own necessarily though for each do so where you think in all the fantasy worlds
• 36:13
  is a best map uh so a would have trouble like there's so many places you could pick uh i'll stick to
• 36:22
  my own stuff because i don't want to actually say somebody's name wrong um but i think from my
• 36:29
  my stuff like pat the pathfinder world would have the best the most interesting maps at least like
• 36:35
  when you go about a single planet like firebird that's like a whole but there's star maps um i haven't
• 36:42
  really investigated the topography and all that stuff for that series but i think that the broken
• 36:48
  lands in the past might just have the best type of maps so just coming back on my side i was thinking
• 36:55
  about this and um i think there's i'll have to mention of course uh uh sort of one of
• 37:02
  will mention to um the marauders map of which is obviously a map of one building in Harry Potter but
• 37:08
  that you know a sort of magic map that moves i that would be really cool and then there's of course
• 37:13
  the iconic maps and i think if we go iconic it's got to be the one in the hobbit um with the dragon
• 37:20
  flying and and the moon letters uh that i had made. Yeah that would be if i was to pick somebody else
• 37:25
  is always going to be like hobbit and talking at that world because like he he put so much
• 37:32
  thought into it um i don't really know too many other like there are other others who have put
• 37:38
  that much thought but like i feel like he's went above what everybody knows. Other ones. Yeah
• 37:45
  Thank you so much for spending some time with us and we'll be putting a link to your website
• 37:51
  in the show notes so people can go and if they haven't yet had the delight of reading your series
• 37:57
  go and find your books um and there's a brief description of each series on your website so people
• 38:02
  will find which one they want urban fans in the or uh whatever. Anyway so thank you very much and
• 38:09
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• 38:22
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