Latest / Life with Bitcoin / Finding Your Place in Bitcoin with Kyle Knight, Why Belonging Drives Adoption

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Finding Your Place in Bitcoin with Kyle Knight, Why Belonging Drives Adoption · Life with Bitcoin

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  becoming a Bitcoiner, an intellectual transition or a social one?
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  Social. It's not about it. And that's what's amazed me is it's Bitcoin. And when you meet so
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  many people and again, go to these events, Bitcoin is such a different thing to someone that's only
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  experienced it behind a computer screen or behind a TV, right? So I'm such an advocate for attending
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  events and meeting others in the space. And I have introduced Bitcoin to my family. I'll give
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  an example between my mom and dad. My mom, she can feel the impact. It's an emotional experience
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  for her to understand the problem that Bitcoin solves. My dad, on the other hand, it's a tool
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  for assets. There is almost no emotional. For me, Bitcoin is very social.
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  Welcome to Live with Bitcoin, where we delve into the human side of Bitcoin by focusing on
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  Bitcoiners' personal transformations and life stories. I'm your host, Ivy Lumi. Thank you for
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  tuning in. If you like and want to support our mission on shining light on the human side of
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  Bitcoin. Remember to like this video, subscribe to this channel, or leave a few sets to keep us going.
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  Today, our guest is Kyle Knight, founder of Bitplaza and UCLA Bitcoin Bruins, a leader within
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  the Bitcoin Students Network. Kyle recently completed his MBA at UCLA Anderson, where he
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  also organized the school's first Bitcoin summit. A lot of Kyle's work sits around a question I've
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  been thinking about more and more, how does Bitcoin move from something people learn about
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  or own into something they actually participate in? Through BigPlaza, he's building around culture,
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  opportunities, talent, collectibles, media, and opportunity, and community, trying to make it
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  easier for people to find their place and contribute. But what makes Kyle especially
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  interesting for this conversation is his focus on the next generation. He said that much of what
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  we're building in Bitcoin today isn't really for us, but it's for whoever comes next. So today,
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  I want to talk about belonging, participation, culture, ambition, and what happens when a new
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  generation inherits Bitcoin and inherently makes it their own. Kyle, welcome to Live with Bitcoin.
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  Ivy, thank you so much for having me. We've had so many wonderful conversations already. I'm excited for the time ahead.
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  Yeah, let's delve right in. Previously, you've shared that Bitcoin adoption is driven by belonging, not just price.
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  And I've heard that before, but it's not a very popular take in the Bitcoin industry. But I personally 100% agree. So when did you first realize this?
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  It honestly started pretty early in my experience. My first Bitcoin event was in 2021 at the Miami Bitcoin Conference. And it was belonging that got me there. It was my friends who introduced me to Bitcoin in college who invited me as a fifth person of the group to travel with them.
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  And I think we think of number go up or the price or the narrative around Bitcoin or the technology as ways that excite us within the community.
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  Once you might already be in, it's the things that a lot of people talk about outside of the community.
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  But what actually brings people in, it's they know a friend.
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  It's almost always a friend or relationship.
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  And it's incredible when people find Bitcoin all on their own.
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  But my goal and my passion has always been how do I help people feel welcomed at home in our community?
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  It's so global and diverse. There's more than enough room for everyone to find their place here. So very early on.
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  2021 to now, it's been a solid five years. And who was Kyle before Bitcoin?
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  What were you ambitious about then when you went to the Bitcoin conference, not knowing what was next?
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  Yeah, at that time, so I graduated a mechanical engineer.
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  I was a consultant doing technology implementation, SAP, it's big software.
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  And so I was accustomed to big problems and I was a problem solver.
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  I love to tinker with things, but I didn't quite understand the root of problems necessarily.
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  I grew up wanting to be a kindergarten teacher.
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  And I say my story evolved because I went from wanting to teach 30 kids a year to thinking, how could you how could I impact more than that?
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  And that's what Bitcoin really changed in me.
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  A few things.
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  One was my belief in myself to go and solve bigger problems.
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  Another was curiosity to understand problems at their root, right?
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  And we say fix the money, fix the world.
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  It's very lofty.
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  It's very vague at times.
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  You could say it's specific.
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  But what does that really mean?
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  Well, our society is built on the money.
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  So if we live with the broken money, well, we're going to experience a lot of downstream effects from that.
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  So Bitcoin really lit my fire to go and solve the problem.
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  Did you find yourself already becoming an entrepreneur? Were you naturally entrepreneurial growing up? Do you remember?
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  Yeah. So my first ever, my brother used to say, this was when I was in high school, that I was only interested in doing things if there was money involved.
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  And I was like, well, that's not true. First of all, I was very, I volunteered at a lot of organizations.
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  I loved just participating in the community. But my first company was called All in the Details.
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  and it was a car detailing business.
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  And I reflect on those words all in the details.
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  And Bitcoin is very about the details.
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  The problems that we solve is it's very important
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  to be intentional around the details.
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  And so I actually, in undergrad,
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  got a co-major in entrepreneurship.
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  It's what I really fell in love with.
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  That's why I didn't wind up, I think, in my opinion,
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  pursuing a more corporate path
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  because I just loved the innovation and the flexibility
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  and, again, the problem-solving nature of entrepreneurship.
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  So it was actually Bitcoin that opened my path to becoming an entrepreneur.
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  So I can expand on that.
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  That's interesting because I definitely remember my early days of making a little bit of pocket money from whatever chores around the house.
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  And it's funny because now that I think about it, the chores that I ended up comfortable with as an adult were the ones that I was paid to do.
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  Not paid to do, but I was incentivized a little bit more.
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  And then when I was doing them, I got custom and I learned the in and outs.
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  And then now I don't feel bad doing them.
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  I don't feel that they're extra work.
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  But the ones that I didn't adapt this approach, now I'm like, I have to fold the clothes.
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  And it's an interesting mindset to grow up.
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  And it's funny that growing up, we can form a relationship with money without us even knowing.
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  And that ended up affecting us in many different aspects in our lives.
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  So from the emotional liver, now you're creating something that hopefully more people will belong more culturally.
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  You're talking about belonging and participation and thinking that that's going to be driving Bitcoin adoption.
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  Were you someone who needed to feel belong to be happy?
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  Or were you comfortable being outside of the group?
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  Where do you see yourself fall in the category of belonging that led you on this path?
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  Yeah, I definitely am someone that loves to connect with others. And in Bitcoin, I had found my home in many ways. And it was similar to when I think about high school, I was the person like I was in eight different clubs, right? I was with the AP physics people, but I was playing basketball. I was with Habitat of Humanity and I was all over the place. Right. And when I think about Bitcoin and when I describe Bitcoin as diverse, there are so many different communities to be a part of in different pockets to find yourself connecting with others within.
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  And now that I've been in Bitcoin for five years, I've been to 30 plus events around the world. I've gone to my local meetups. I've gone to the virtual spaces. I've been in a lot of these communities. I used to certainly derive a lot of value out of feeling a sense of belonging in Bitcoin. And I think this question is very relevant given Cold Card and what happened recently and how that affected at least my identity and relationship with the community.
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  But I would say what's shifted now is now I feel a little bit more like I can lead. Right. And that doesn't require me to necessarily. I don't know if I was sacrificing parts of me to belong, but I'm able to more confidently present myself to others with a point of view that is built up of my own.
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  And if others connect with me and feel that there's a reason to have a relationship from there, that's fantastic.
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  So I would say from moving forward, I definitely feel more confident around why I'm here in Bitcoin and how I can contribute versus just more so being a follower.
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  For sure. And then I bet there's definitely this transition for you personally that from the consuming content side to creating content side to participating, building in the culture and to comfortably start to share your perspective in public.
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  because it's a very opinionated community
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  and everybody has something to say about everything.
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  So I bet there was this personal journey to step up and lead.
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  So we'll talk about that in the BitPlaza segment.
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  And it seems like there's a lot of ambition going on
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  from solving big problems even before Bitcoin to being entrepreneurial.
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  So do you think, has Bitcoin made you more ambitious
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  or has it changed what ambition means to you?
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  That's a good question.
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  Has it changed what ambition means to me?
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  I'm going to tackle the first one.
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  I don't know if it's an and or, but I'm going to tackle the first one, which is I do think
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  it's made me more ambitious.
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  One of the things that's a blessing as an entrepreneur or problem solver in Bitcoin is
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  it doesn't actually have a lot of competition.
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  It doesn't have so many participants that are trying to solve the incredible amount of
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  problems that that gets surfaced as a result of once you start considering the money's
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  broken and how can Bitcoin fix it?
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  And so to the entrepreneur within me, I see and I also have ADHD, which for context, I just see the world.
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  There are so many opportunities. And with Bitcoin, again, the scale becomes so much greater.
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  Right. I'm no longer building or solving a problem for my new locale.
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  I'm solving it for typically the world. Right.
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  is the way that I am now able to see myself as an entrepreneur. And the way that I now feel like
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  I have a platform to go and solve problems at scale is because of Bitcoin. So maybe I rose to
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  the ambition or I rose to the opportunity that Bitcoin presents. You can certainly build local,
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  right? And you can certainly be an entrepreneur at a smaller level within Bitcoin. But I think
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  it definitely opens the door to solving, having more ambition. For sure. And I definitely shared
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  that because I remember being like feeling feeling guilty as a kid growing up and just watching the
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  news and all these unfortunate events and I thought to myself what's the difference between me and them
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  right there's there's it's really me winning whatever genetic lottery where you're born this
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  family and this is your circumstances and this is your context but for them they you took equal
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  chance and they have to go through these hardships so for a long time that was very hard to witness
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  as a kind of survivor in that scenario.
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  But then you realize there's really no survivor
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  in that story because everybody is one
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  and everybody's in this system together.
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  So I definitely relate to the becoming more ambitious part
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  because you've definitely realized
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  that the impact that you can make in this world
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  is more than you probably imagined.
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  And in the past five years,
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  is there something that you had to unlearn?
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  Hmm, so much.
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  Let me just see if I can put a name on it.
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  Let me think. I would say it's the it's certainly that you can just do things is the consequence of what I learned. Right. So what I what I had to unlearn was there was an order of operations to going and solving problems. Right. There was also the slayer heroes. Right. That this this I think this is actually probably more more pressing, at least for me. I feel it more intensely. But I grew up certainly from Chicago. So so Michael Jordan or various people.
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  but you could look at leaders in industry, you could look at leaders in politics and hold them
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  with high regard. And as I grew up, because I found Bitcoin when I was 19, I at that time gave
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  so much credit to leaders, right? And holding them on a pedestal, you eventually, whether it's
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  Bitcoin or growing up, find out that they're just humans, right, as well. But also that the people
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  that you hold with such high regard and you hope are solving problems may not always be aligned
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  with you or be supportive of your efforts. And this is this theme within Bitcoin, which I think
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  outside of Bitcoin, so many people believe leaders are acting in their best interest and leaders are
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  there to constantly be a resource and be supportive And they are just as human as we are and can be just as distracted as we are And if you want something done right it always best to do it yourself And so that is where I think that fed my entrepreneurial pursuit I think Bitcoin and sovereignty the ability to just do things
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  yourself, it's all been a part of that. Yeah, definitely. It's the sovereignty aspect,
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  the proof of work aspect. It really trickles down to every single aspect of us. And if we take that
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  in a professional playground,
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  then with all of the tools that are available to us,
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  there's more room for improvement
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  than room for complainant, right?
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  So right now, it's the time to empower each individual
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  to really take Bitcoin as a tool
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  to learn what they could unlearn
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  and go on that journey and see what that means to them.
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  And I want to stay with belonging
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  because I think there's a big difference
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  between discovering Bitcoin and actually finding your place within it.
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  So people oftentimes say Bitcoin doesn't need marketing
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  and there's no Bitcoin marketing team per se.
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  But do you think Bitcoin needs hospitality?
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  Well, I think it's well known.
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  Bitcoin has a unique demographic of individuals.
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  If you've ever been to a Bitcoin event, if you go to PubP,
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  if you go to a meetup, you're going to find 90% of the time
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  it's going to be older men who are really rough around money. We're talking about money and big
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  problems, right? And like, man, we could use a soft touch. I use three words I use to describe
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  communities. I say welcoming, accessible and safe. And our environments aren't always those. And
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  yes, we could absolutely use more hospitality. When I when I think about discovery versus belonging,
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  I go back to my time in my MBA, and I think about my peers, right? And part of it and also talking
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  about what you had to unlearn, right?
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  They, whether it was my peers or the faculty,
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  have grown up in a system that supported them, right?
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  If you were in, especially in an upper class,
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  middle upper class, you've benefited
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  from the money printing, right?
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  At least in the short term, right?
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  And your family has, right, in some ways.
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  And so they may understand
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  what Bitcoin's value proposition is,
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  but because there is no sense of it,
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  it's them and Bitcoin, there's so much space, right?
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  And when you talk about hospitality,
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  you talk about belonging,
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  How do we bridge that gap between somebody that understands there's a problem or understands Bitcoin as a solution to a problem and joining us?
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  Right. So I would love to see more hospitable environments.
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  I think that's coming. I think the culture will be shifting and we'll see that.
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  I surely hope so.
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  Yeah, it's definitely happening. And I'm very much building on that front, too.
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  So the culture is the golden age for culture.
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  it's beyond people's imagining it's just just getting started because now it's about life right
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  and and for you personally when you were new in the space who made you feel welcome or do you have
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  some stories that you could share that there's one specific person or place or example that made
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  you feel like wow i'm new but i'm welcomed yeah it was i'll start with those my college buddies
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  like that immediately off the bat, I knew nothing. Right. And it was partly that I was interested,
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  partly that we were already friends and I was impressionable. So they forced me into it because
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  they knew I was I was able to be included. No, they didn't force. I was happy to join. But besides
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  that, one of the most important communities for me has been the Bitcoin art community. And people
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  ask what's Bitcoin art? What it tends to be is it's it's individuals like you and I who create
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  Bitcoin is a source of their creativity.
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  It's a source of their expression.
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  But what's wonderful, these are just people who, in my opinion, art is such a beautiful
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  thing, right?
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  And when you come to the Bitcoin comments and you talk about hospitality, right, there's
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  not often a ton of natural beauty, right?
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  And these artists bring, they bring humor and they bring raw emotion and they bring
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  feeling, right?
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  And it's not about the numbers.
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  It's not about the charts.
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  It's not about these big world problems.
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  It's about connection.
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  It's about a sense of belonging. And that community of artists really made me feel like a little, they looked over me in many ways because they tended to be older. And so that was wonderful.
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  This is the cultural scene, the art scene in Bitcoin is growing and there are many more platforms and artists and the discovery of each other, right? And start to make synergy.
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  So I'm super looking forward to see how Bitcoin art would do when it reached the mass, when it reached people who have no preconception of Bitcoin, have no context.
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  How would they react to, let's say, a very Bitcoin centric piece of art versus artists who are creating in the Bitcoin context, but are using very, very subtle or even no reference of Bitcoin.
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  And I'm really interested to see how these two types of artists would survive and thrive in the grand scheme of things to take the culture to the next level.
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  A question we oftentimes ask on Live With Bitcoin is, what is your definition of Bitcoiner?
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  But at the same time, for you, I want to twist this question a little bit.
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  I want to ask you, for you, is becoming a Bitcoiner an intellectual transition or a social one?
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  Social. It's not about it. And that's what's amazed me is it's Bitcoin. And when you meet so many people and again, go to these events, it's not it's such a different Bitcoin is such a different thing to someone that's only experienced it behind a computer screen or behind a TV. Right.
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  um so i'm such an advocate for attending events and meeting others in the space and i have
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  introduced bitcoin to my family i'll give an example between my mom and dad my dad's not
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  gonna like this but oh my my mom she can feel the impact right it's an emotional experience for her
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  to understand the problem that bitcoin solves right my dad on the other hand it's a tool for
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  asset creation right and wealth creation and there's there's almost no emotion i brought him
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  to events and there's no connection there. And so what do I define as a Bitcoiner? I don't know
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  that my dad can consider himself a Bitcoiner so much as someone that sees an opportunity to,
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  he's an opportunist, right? And my mom, though, on the other hand, she's the type that volunteers
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  at Chicago bubble schools and she contributes to society in the ways that can help her help make
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  it better and and so for me bitcoin is finally is very social sorry about that that was that totally
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  choking on your story um yeah social socially i wanted to twist the question for you because
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  you could you have such a great focus and great passion on a social layer of it and i really
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  agree with you and this is how you can see that some people are already bitcoiners without even
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  understand Bitcoin to the extent technically,
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  but their being is screaming the ethos of the community.
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  And so if you're recommending for everybody
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  to go to Bitcoin events
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  and claiming that there's this experience, this culture,
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  so what does Bitcoin culture give people
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  that they may be missing elsewhere, everywhere else?
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  That's a great question.
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  And I think it's most relatable to consider
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  before Bitcoin, right outside of Bitcoin, to those that are listening that have never participated
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  in Bitcoin, right? Why do you go to a class, an extracurricular, a community event? They often
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  ask people what's the best part of their college experience. And they were like, it's never the
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  classes, it's the people. It's either the faculty that left an impression, it's their peers that
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  they continue to relate with and grow with. And so I use Bitcoin, I use this analogy, it's like
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  football player could play football at a community college or Stanford. What's the difference?
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  Right. It's going to be the people around them. It's no it's no less. It's not lesser that the
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  community college. It's it's just we're playing at a level. The the people that exist within Bitcoin
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  and the the culture are such beautiful human beings that are so aware. Right. And they the
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  conversations are richer. They're deeper. They're more engaging. Right. And we are I like to think
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  Obviously, recently, it's been it's tough to make this statement, but I would say open minded, right?
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  And flexible. And the reason I say this for anybody listening is the definition of Bitcoin could be challenged recently.
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  Yeah. But yeah, attending an event, what you're going to find and I hope you find a community that's that is welcoming to you,
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  that you can feel right at home and learn from, that you can grow with, that you're excited to return to because you found a part of you that scratched an itch.
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  yeah totally and and having said that the the yes if you go to bitcoin conference you will see
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  you will very likely meet people that are sharing something that are not obvious with you right but
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  at the same time bitcoin community is very very diverse it's actually one of the most diverse
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  communities i've ever set my foot into so how do you think we can create this sense of belonging
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  both for the current community of Bitcoiners and the newcomers without requiring conformity?
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  Because it's going to be very hard to change each other.
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  And different walks of lives of Bitcoiners are in this space for sometimes different reasons.
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  Yeah, that's my favorite part.
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  I am a, this is going back to the culture.
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  So for context, right?
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  The word maximus has shifted.
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  Bitcoin maximus, right?
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  Somebody that used to just put Bitcoin first, right?
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  They believe that Bitcoin was so important to the mission that you could have other hobbies,
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  you could participate in other communities.
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  But at the end of the day, it was like, wow, I'm dedicated to this cause.
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  That has certainly shifted in recent years to maybe mean Bitcoin is just meant to be purely money, right?
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  That's the problem it's meant to solve.
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  And when you talk about the diversity of the community, it's so critical to welcome that and nurture that, right?
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  that there isn't conformity, that people do participate in the financial realm, that people
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  do participate in the educational realm, that people support. For me, there's the social events,
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  there's the community, there's the artistic realm, right? I think one of the hardest parts is that
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  there isn't leadership, right? There isn't necessarily a C-suite, there's no CEO, there's
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  no advisory board to Bitcoin, right? So who is helping coordinate our community staying healthy
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  and inviting and diverse, right?
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  Versus segregating and separating one another
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  and siloing off and becoming clicky, right?
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  I hope and I see it's people like yourself and myself
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  and really the next generation that's gonna move
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  the next generation of people that enter our community
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  that is going to set us on a path
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  that is going to lock in our diversity.
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  And what do I mean by that?
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  I think we have an opportunity now
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  after really it's been five years
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  of very expressive culture, 2021 and onward,
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  we really blew up in terms of the amount that people contributed to this space culturally.
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  I think now there's clarity, right?
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  What organizations can participate in creating this space for us and creating the path forward?
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  And if we can connect the right organizations together with the right people, I think the future of Bitcoin culture looks bright.
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  Yeah, totally.
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  And speaking of which, let's shift gears to talk about BitPlaza, very new development around the initiative.
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  Could you tell us about what is Bitplaza?
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  What problems did you see that made you think Bitplaza needed to exist?
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  Yeah.
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  So Bitplaza, I took two words, bit, which digital like Bitcoin and Plaza, which was a gathering space.
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  And for me, when I have been exploring throughout Bitcoin and I'm so passionate, I go to share Bitcoin with others.
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  I haven't had a place to send people to that.
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  I use those three words safe, accessible and welcoming place to learn about and participate in the Bitcoin community.
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  Right.
• 25:06
  And so I think about some of the challenges that Bitcoin has and some of the challenges Bitcoin companies have is there's no there's no funnel right in Bitcoin. Right. So if a company sells a product that solves your problem, well, they can't send you anywhere to learn more. Right. They can't. There's no there's no agnostic home for Bitcoin's community where you can interact with other community members that aren't trying to sell you on something that, you know, there are places to learn freely and openly.
• 25:34
  And so Bitplaza, I originally set out a year ago with a company called Bitcoin Culture Hub.
• 25:40
  And it was, as it was described, take Bitcoin culture, put it all in one place.
• 25:44
  It was meant to be the second iteration of BitcoinTalk.org, which if you're familiar with Satoshi, his early communication was on this website.
• 25:53
  And back in the early days of Bitcoin everyone around the world participated on BitcoinTalk And it was a forum site And it looks like Craigslist And it was horrible UI really ugly And so mine was how could we modernize this How could we take the design of
• 26:08
  this and give Bitcoin a home again? No longer is it Reddit. No longer is it Twitter. No longer is
• 26:13
  it YouTube. No longer is it Telegram, Discord channels, right? Let's give a proper home for
• 26:19
  Bitcoin's community. So Bitplaza, we have launched with the ability for users to create profiles that
• 26:25
  the main goal was connecting with others, connecting with organizations in the space
• 26:30
  and participating in the space. So, so many people are looking to contribute to Bitcoin
• 26:35
  and there just aren't enough full-time jobs. But there are so many other ways to contribute,
• 26:41
  right? There is incredible amount of startups and initiatives and challenges and communities that
• 26:45
  you can participate in. And many are just looking to gain experience in the space. They have a full
• 26:50
  time job outside of Bitcoin and they want to learn more. They want to build relationships with others.
• 26:54
  And so the first problem that we aim to solve was helping people find where they belong in Bitcoin. And so that was you could even you could downstream without is participating. But the first part is, do you care about the technology? Do you care about the financial aspect? Do you care about the human rights? Do you care about filling up? There are so many things to care about. But that used to be a problem that Bitcoiners had to solve when they went to share Bitcoin with somebody else.
• 27:19
  They had to figure out in a single conversation what the other person cared about and how they could relate Bitcoin to them.
• 27:26
  Our job, that's now our job.
• 27:28
  Now you just go, hey, create an account on BitPosite.
• 27:30
  They got you.
• 27:31
  They'll help you figure out why you care about this cause.
• 27:34
  Interesting.
• 27:34
  And it seems like you're solving really big problems.
• 27:39
  I hope to.
• 27:40
  I certainly hope to.
• 27:41
  When I say that there's no C-suite or CEO or leadership, I will never presume to take that role.
• 27:48
  But I do think that people that care passionately about the community have to have a vision of contributing across and being accountable for its growth. Right. And so I look at the leaders of of the Bitcoin community to date and we've we've gotten so far in five years.
• 28:04
  but there is so much more to be offered.
• 28:07
  And that's what's so wonderful about building today.
• 28:09
  And after five years of developing relationships,
• 28:12
  I understand the problems.
• 28:14
  I understand the organizations that are working in the space
• 28:16
  and what their goals are and what their challenges are.
• 28:19
  And with my relationships with the students network
• 28:21
  and just abroad, there are so many people willing to build.
• 28:24
  So I just need to open the floodgates
• 28:25
  to make sure that they have access and opportunity to do so.
• 28:29
  Yeah, and it's also about communication
• 28:31
  and bridging between communities, right?
• 28:32
  Like students, they're the next generation why we're even doing this for.
• 28:38
  And what is their relationship between themselves and money?
• 28:43
  And how can we empower them to get plugged into the community easy and fast and in a meaningful way for all of the parties involved?
• 28:53
  And I think that's a really neat solution to try to connect them and really incorporate the idea of value for value and proof of work and have the students learn and get their hands dirty into real life projects.
• 29:09
  And this is really how you grow the fastest and the best.
• 29:14
  And in this process of building BitPlaza, what have you learned from building it that challenged your original assumptions?
• 29:21
  So much, so much. That's part of the entrepreneurial journey is constant learning and not being able to give in to the challenge that is building. I think something that I knew before. So for context, my first job in Bitcoin was head of operations at Scarcity, which was a Bitcoin art marketplace, Bitcoin arts and collectibles marketplace.
• 29:42
  Then I worked inside of another that I was their first hire. Then I worked inside of another startup Bitcoin trading cards. It was a very small team also navigating the community, but on the cultural side again. And when I look at Bitcoin companies, one of the most difficult parts is the market is cyclical and it is very difficult to grow outside of Bitcoin, right? If you are labeled and branded a Bitcoin company.
• 30:07
  And so I've always said, well, if my single goal is Bitcoin adoption, I use three billion Bitcoiners in the next decade is what I say.
• 30:16
  If that's the goal, well, I better be solving for the people outside of Bitcoin.
• 30:20
  Right. I better be safe, accessible and welcoming to the people outside of Bitcoin.
• 30:25
  And so throughout this experience, Bitcoin Culture Hub, I named it before I knew what the company was going to be.
• 30:30
  And so I started building to that name.
• 30:32
  And what I realized was I once again started building for Bitcoiners, which is what I was trying to avoid.
• 30:39
  But nevertheless, there I was.
• 30:41
  And so with Bitplaza, I hope the rebrand, it's for me a chance to reset and say, OK, there are I just watched a video of Gen Alpha, a young a young girl, maybe under the age of 10, mocking influencers, Gen Z influencers.
• 30:55
  And I'm like, oh, my God, Gen Alpha is already we got to be cool for them.
• 30:58
  We have to be approachable.
• 30:59
  We have to be interesting to them.
• 31:01
  And so I get excited now in this new leaf with the new brand to remember that while I love my older peers in Bitcoin, that might be 50, 60, 70, they're educators, they're companies fill in the blank.
• 31:15
  They're wonderful.
• 31:16
  My audience is younger.
• 31:18
  My audience is outside of this space.
• 31:20
  And the platform that I'm creating must help them get in.
• 31:23
  So I think branding is, I'm a form and a function guy.
• 31:27
  I believe so much in the design of things in both the way they work and the way they present themselves.
• 31:33
  And I think I had the right idea of how it works, but I don't think I had the right idea of how it presented.
• 31:39
  Right. It's a time for more beauty.
• 31:42
  Hey, we are coming back to beauty.
• 31:45
  We're coming back to being based again.
• 31:49
  The really essentials.
• 31:51
  I feel like Gen Zs are all essentialists.
• 31:53
  And I have a lot of, I guess, respect and appreciation because I know that they're almost in a way intrinsically free.
• 32:03
  You know what I mean?
• 32:04
  Not because we've seen, we're the last bit of younger generation that have seen the transition between internet and no internet and internet and how the internet became the way it is today.
• 32:17
  And then now we have Bitcoin.
• 32:19
  So the whole journey has been very bumpy, I would say.
• 32:22
  And there's a lot of adoption.
• 32:24
  But for Gen Z, I feel like the adoption, the transition is much more natural.
• 32:30
  When they are around the internet, it's already taking over the world.
• 32:35
  You have AI.
• 32:36
  All of these new technologies, digital money, digital form of currency feels very native to them.
• 32:42
  So you've said that much of what we're building today isn't really for us, which I completely agree.
• 32:47
  agree and i can't wait to be the cool and for the for the the next generation and i hope that's
• 32:55
  really my aspiration at this point and it's it's for the generation that comes next like what are
• 33:01
  what do you think we're actually handing them what does gen z understand about bitcoin that
• 33:07
  older bitcoiners don't or or vice versa right because you talk to a lot of students and i'm
• 33:14
  sure more or less they're involved in the capacity of bitcoin so what have you uncovered on that front
• 33:20
  what they know about bitcoin that we don't yeah i it's a it's a great question that we don't hey
• 33:25
  we're part of that we're so close no um the i think there's the walk in the talk part of of
• 33:31
  building right and bitcoin students the bitcoin students network young bitcoiners have incredible
• 33:38
  agency and awareness to the world's problems but the agency comes in when it says i need to go
• 33:43
  solve them, right? And I think that there's something to be said for older Bitcoiners who
• 33:49
  are aware of the problems, are participating in Bitcoin to do what they can to make the world a
• 33:54
  better place that they could hand off to the younger generations. But who's going to solve
• 33:58
  these problems? It's going to be our generation and younger. We have so much in front of us.
• 34:06
  That's why I talk about there's so much to solve and Bitcoin just shined a light on all of it,
• 34:10
  Right. And the opportunity to now go do that.
• 34:13
  I had a conversation recently with a professor who was yesterday who was saying his his students, most of them grew up in a home that their parents didn't own.
• 34:22
  And right now with what's happening in AI, they don't understand how they fit into society.
• 34:26
  They don't understand how they can contribute.
• 34:29
  And if I was a student right now, I'm no AI computer scientist.
• 34:33
  I don't have that brain and I might be feeling the same way.
• 34:36
  Bitcoin youth understand that they have a path to contributing to society.
• 34:41
  And I think that's what might differentiate them from those that haven't seen it of their peers.
• 34:46
  Right. So I feel hope.
• 34:48
  Not only Bitcoin, of course, brings me hope, but having the conversations and knowing the people that are even younger than me that feel capable of solving some of the world's toughest problems.
• 34:58
  That that excites me.
• 35:01
  Wow. I didn't know that.
• 35:03
  And that makes total sense because when you're in your teenage years, early 20s, that's when you have a world's ambition, right?
• 35:12
  You are really and you're really trying to do the right thing and have so much energy and potential that waiting to be distributed into the world and finding their community, finding a cause that they like to serve.
• 35:26
  And this is an incredibly beautiful journey.
• 35:29
  So really glad to hear that's the case.
• 35:32
  And do you see the risk in that regard? Do you see the next generation? Do you see Gen Z being pessimistic about where we are heading into? Are they adapting Bitcoin because they think it's something true? Or they welcome the idea of Bitcoin because everything else or all of the alternatives are so pessimistic?
• 35:54
  Yeah, I don't want to put a damper on how few of Gen Z actually see the problem. But no, I think I go back to this memory during my MBA. I spent a weekend with some guys and they asked me about my passions for Bitcoin. This was in the second year. I was already 18 months. Everybody knew me as this individual. And we got into the problems, right? And why I cared about Bitcoin. And they were like, Kyle, why do you think the world's on fire? The world's not on fire. I'm like, I don't. I'm a realist.
• 36:22
  The world today feels fine, but tomorrow is certainly uncertain, right?
• 36:27
  And that you don't feel this way is nerve wracking for me to know that my peers, my peers don't feel a sense of urgency to put themselves, their families and their peers in a better position to handle the uncertainty.
• 36:43
  But I think I forgot the original question.
• 36:46
  I just wanted to share that story.
• 36:47
  But Gen Z, I think I get very excited about a handful of different Bitcoin creators, Bitcoin teams that will make Bitcoin cool, that will open youth's eyes to this is a space for them that is intentionally built for them, that they can participate in, they can grow within, that they can accelerate within.
• 37:07
  And so while the Bitcoin Student Network has a lot of work to do, I'm optimistic.
• 37:10
  Yeah, yeah. And once the biggest kind of piece, cultural piece is solved, then it's going to be one of those adoption curves where it's gradually then suddenly.
• 37:24
  Because when trend catches on, they catch on. And when trend comes, it's global.
• 37:29
  So it's just about, yeah, so the ball is really in our court to create those content and to portray Bitcoiners, portray Bitcoin in a way that's relevant to the next generations.
• 37:43
  And speaking of relevance, I wanted to ask your take on how it would look like for the majority of Gen Z starting to be more, like starting to be closer to Bitcoin.
• 37:55
  Because if we think about internet, maybe at the beginning of the technology, there was this rabbit hole going on, right?
• 38:04
  And now we have Bitcoin.
• 38:05
  And maybe sometimes we romanticize about going down the rabbit hole.
• 38:10
  And it's a whole process.
• 38:11
  It is a learning curve.
• 38:13
  And the whole Bitcoin rabbit hole may not be applicable the same today in the next 20 years.
• 38:21
  So maybe Bitcoin simply becomes infrastructure.
• 38:24
  Maybe they don't care about Satoshi.
• 38:26
  Maybe they don't read the same books and maybe they don't call themselves Bitcoiners.
• 38:30
  How do you see the next generation go down the rabbit hole of Bitcoin without being like, would they be so wrapped around with the technology?
• 38:40
  Because I don't really know anything too much about how Internet works anyways, right?
• 38:46
  Yeah, I hope when I think about Satoshi, Satoshi is a tough spot on my heart.
• 38:51
  The technology is technology.
• 38:52
  Technology is you can love it or not.
• 38:55
  I think a lot of people are it some of the iPhone they don need to know how it works And that okay I don and that something it goes to the self conversation right And do people need to roll dire
• 39:08
  Do we need to get in the weeds?
• 39:10
  Do the 99% of the masses that aren't comfortable with technology, do we need to force it onto
• 39:15
  them?
• 39:15
  I don't think so.
• 39:16
  And so when I think about 20 years from now, how humans interact with Bitcoin, my hope is,
• 39:23
  yes, it is infrastructure.
• 39:24
  Yes, it's part of daily life.
• 39:25
  No, I don't think they consider themselves Bitcoiners. But I do hope what rubs off on them is something that is in each of us here today, right, that do consider ourselves Bitcoiners, which is the thoughtful questions that we ask about how the world works, right? The belief in ourselves to go and have an impact on one another, right, in society. And the beauty, right, that comes with having hope for society, that there is tools that can make the world a better place, right?
• 39:53
  When I think about Bitcoin and art, I also I think about the ability for an artist to have low time preference.
• 39:59
  Right. What does sound money allow?
• 40:02
  Right. It allows the Sistine Chapel.
• 40:04
  It allows the draw.
• 40:05
  It allows it allows beautiful creations that take decades to take place.
• 40:09
  And people Gen Z 20 years from now may not ever consider themselves Bitcoiners, but they may be acting and benefiting, standing on the shoulders of Satoshi and carrying out.
• 40:19
  I hope would only be that they're able to carry out projects that take two decades because they have some money, right?
• 40:26
  That they're able to build back a culture that is rooted in strong values in the story.
• 40:31
  So long answer to say, I don't know that they're so proud to be Bitcoiners in 20 years, but I do believe that they are proud in who they became as a result of participating in a Bitcoin world.
• 40:44
  Wow, that's really well said. That's really well said.
• 40:47
  And you said how whatever they come up with is going to be rooted from the values, from the ethos, from the positivity and love and all these things that we need more in this world instead of coming from fear, right?
• 41:02
  Because big winners up to today, I guess, especially today, collective traumatic events, several of them as a community, it's a very scarred community too.
• 41:15
  There's a lot of trauma collectively.
• 41:18
  There's a lot of anger.
• 41:19
  And a lot of people found Bitcoin through trauma and anger in the first place.
• 41:24
  And so it's just years of compound of the so much clashing energy.
• 41:32
  And then sometimes, and this is where the industry gets a little bit hard sometimes.
• 41:35
  And it's suffocating in the sense that everybody is pushed forward.
• 41:41
  And there's never a dull day.
• 41:42
  But the flip side of it is that there can be a crisis every day, right?
• 41:47
  So the mindset you approach the community with, the values that you, the principles and you live by every day.
• 41:57
  Maybe this, maybe the Gen Z will have a very different answer to us in terms of how we would interact with Bitcoin.
• 42:05
  So definitely building towards that future where everybody gets to be a little bit east in that regard.
• 42:13
  So in university these days, does a traditional live script still make sense to a 20-year-old today?
• 42:20
  The traditional go to university, get a good job, house, save for retirement.
• 42:25
  Does your generation still believe that bargain works?
• 42:28
  No.
• 42:29
  So when you're in university, what people are actually worried about when you were talking to them?
• 42:35
  Tomorrow. And that's what that's what broken money does to you is you start thinking about tomorrow and not generational effects.
• 42:41
  Right. I don't I can't picture a family because I don't know if I'm going to have a job tomorrow.
• 42:46
  Right. I don't know if that job is going to be around in a year, even if I got it right.
• 42:50
  Who I am, because all I'm trying to do is find a job that pays the bills, not find a job that actually fills me.
• 42:56
  Right. And so I had my MBA stories.
• 42:59
  I came in an entrepreneur, a Bitcoiner, and I knew that I was leaving an entrepreneur and a Bitcoiner.
• 43:04
  I never came in saying I'm going to go get a job. Right. That's why I'm coming to my MBA. But so many did. Right. And so many left a job to try to find a new one. Right. And the market can change in two years like that. Right. And it's not just the market. It's technology can have its impact. Right. And so a lot of my peers graduated without work. And the thought of why aren't people buying more Bitcoin? Well, it's like, hey, a lot of us are told to go get a better education. Go. You could say get more experience.
• 43:31
  and wind up in more debt, right?
• 43:34
  And then not have a job on the other side.
• 43:37
  It's like, that's what you do, right?
• 43:38
  Who's buying Bitcoin at that point, right?
• 43:40
  There's no Bitcoin to be bought.
• 43:42
  And so I think I have so much empathy
• 43:45
  to those both that are in the system
• 43:49
  and don't recognize it yet
• 43:50
  and those that are in the system and do.
• 43:51
  Because just because there's a problem
• 43:53
  doesn't even mean that you can change
• 43:55
  your outcome drastically, right?
• 43:56
  The system is tormenting our generation, right?
• 44:00
  And I use that word so seriously because it is not a great time to be graduating with debt.
• 44:07
  It's full stop.
• 44:09
  And I don't know.
• 44:11
  We used to sit in 2021.
• 44:13
  It was like, oh, Bitcoin is going to save you in many ways, right?
• 44:15
  You latch on to something that's an escape vessel.
• 44:18
  And it's like, well, at $60,000, at $100,000, that's a different story than at $3,000, right?
• 44:24
  You have to make a lot of money to acquire enough Bitcoin to consider it an escape vessel, right?
• 44:30
  And so I hope Gen Z continues to find.
• 44:34
  And this is why, again, I shared what I shared in my last question, which was we need to not necessarily consider Bitcoin the asset.
• 44:41
  What's so incredible versus Bitcoin the values, Bitcoin the community, Bitcoin the culture, Bitcoin the mindset.
• 44:46
  Right. And a student that approaches the world with Bitcoin the mindset, Bitcoin values, Bitcoin the fill in the blank culture.
• 44:54
  they're going to be leaps and bounds ahead than a student that just acquires bitcoin with their
• 44:59
  extra dollars and doesn't think anything of it right yeah exactly i want to clarify my own points
• 45:05
  a lot of gen z experiences that there's a problem in the market right today but they may not
• 45:11
  appreciate how systemic and how how three years from now five years from now could could be worse
• 45:17
  than it could be today right uh they're just experiencing okay well it's it's hard now maybe
• 45:22
  will get better in a year, right? And that's a challenge to overcome. I just want to clarify
• 45:27
  that point because it changes a lot. So the traditional university job, safe, corporate
• 45:33
  ladders and do a good job in that sense now is not going to work to that extent of having a
• 45:40
  fulfilled life. So how does that realization impact kids, students that are, let's say, 15 to 25 years
• 45:48
  old because they're in that's the age where you need a lot of hope and a lot of fuel to go after
• 45:56
  your dream right so how does that impact people's behavior in those age once they realize yeah i
• 46:03
  honestly that's it's such a great question to ask and i would love to talk to more youth about that
• 46:10
  because even i don't know that i fully understand what they're feeling in their most raw honest
• 46:15
  moments right um and and also talking to students at ucla is much different than talking to students
• 46:24
  that are a block away right a couple down the street right which there's and what i mean by
• 46:29
  that is right we talk about the blessing of being born into a family where i was taught about money
• 46:36
  and i i had an allowance i could learn a charity i had savings i had my allowance and so i could
• 46:41
  learn how to manage it. It was like, what a gift that was to put me in a position so that when
• 46:46
  Bitcoin was introduced to me, I had been considering what money was for a while. For a 15-year-old
• 46:52
  today that used Chicago Public Schools because I'm from there, but doesn't have a supportive
• 46:56
  of a household, doesn't have awareness to the challenges that are outside of school, they don't
• 47:01
  know how that's going to impact them. But to answer your question more specifically, I think
• 47:06
  Gen Z students, it's that no Bitcoin that are already Bitcoiners, they have a fire, right?
• 47:11
  Because they're aware to the problem.
• 47:13
  They're also aware to the fact that they can change their position, right?
• 47:17
  To, again, put them in a better spot to face that problem.
• 47:21
  But to those outside of Bitcoin, good question.
• 47:25
  I don't know.
• 47:26
  And I need to learn more.
• 47:28
  I have a sentiment there.
• 47:29
  It was not specifically from Gen Z, which is why I asked this question,
• 47:33
  because I have heard a story where Bitcoin,
• 47:37
  Bitcoin are a friend and they were telling me
• 47:39
  before they found Bitcoin, they were not saving.
• 47:41
  They said they knew enough about economy
• 47:45
  and they knew about inflation
• 47:47
  and they just didn't find enough incentive to save
• 47:51
  because of inflation,
• 47:53
  because it can go rot any day, right?
• 47:56
  Why save?
• 47:57
  And like you said,
• 47:58
  and they can't picture themselves having a family
• 47:59
  and building on life because of these TikTok not knowing what's going to happen next second
• 48:07
  type of energy.
• 48:08
  And I bet if you have this outlook, society, on life, it must impact your behavior more
• 48:16
  if you're a kid.
• 48:17
  And sometimes you may not even conceptualize that you have a pessimistic view on the future,
• 48:24
  but subconsciously you see, right?
• 48:27
  subconsciously you see what's happening in the world and you see more or less how people around
• 48:32
  you navigate through these situations with whatever tools and resources and circumstances
• 48:38
  they're in i think it's a it's a it's almost gonna be a vibe and then it's that negativity that that
• 48:46
  lack of hope is gonna stop them from achieving stop them taking the first step and that's the
• 48:52
  the worst because you really need that first step to go anywhere and we have this idiom saying that
• 48:59
  the first step the first step is 50 percent right the first step is 50 so it's it's it's
• 49:06
  really calling for even more culture even more love more fun and experience to push people to
• 49:15
  the threshold of getting curious themselves and getting somewhere because the threshold of for
• 49:21
  someone to be curious enough to do a google search or go find a youtube channel is different maybe for
• 49:28
  a very inquisitive person that takes 50 maybe for someone else that take 90 and then you will
• 49:34
  and then you can add the weighted approach of oh this person cares about history so if it's
• 49:40
  history related it's like buff right there's a times tool you can make make it all gamified and
• 49:45
  talk math here but ultimately it needs to be something that they care about and bring them
• 49:50
  joy and hope because nobody wants to watch content that makes them depressed. My angle here,
• 49:57
  similar to yours, is to how can we make it positive, right? How can we marketing? Yeah,
• 50:04
  fear works better than love, but fear is a very, very negative, low frequency emotion.
• 50:10
  And how can we approach people with positivity? How can we inspire instead of
• 50:16
  of trigger the fear in them, right?
• 50:20
  So that's really what's puzzling me.
• 50:24
  And I see a lot of similarities and commonalities of how you are building on this approach.
• 50:30
  For the Gen Z Bitcoiners that are already aware of the problem, aware of the solution
• 50:36
  potentially, do you think could Bitcoin accidentally make young people too financially focused?
• 50:43
  financially focused or financially confident i think both yeah financially focused
• 50:49
  i i don't know that there's a problem at a young age to being ambitious and putting themselves in
• 50:58
  a strong foundation to provide for themselves and for a family or others right i think that i i
• 51:05
  people talk about balance right and i love this recent conversation which is like
• 51:10
  that typically balance and work-life balance, right?
• 51:13
  And somebody brought up,
• 51:14
  well, if you think about living your life in chapters,
• 51:16
  right, instead of balance, right?
• 51:18
  So if I'm building my startup, I can't be social.
• 51:21
  I don't have the time for this balance, right?
• 51:24
  But that's okay, because after this chapter,
• 51:26
  I can spend a new chapter focused on something else
• 51:29
  that might be rewarding me in another way.
• 51:31
  And so when I think about financially focused,
• 51:33
  I reflect on the things that I did to acquire Bitcoin,
• 51:37
  meaning I sold things that I loved.
• 51:41
  I made choices that I would have loved to change today
• 51:46
  knowing what I know now of it's going to be okay.
• 51:48
  There's no life's happening tomorrow
• 51:50
  and you need to fix it, your position like that
• 51:53
  and take some drastic measures.
• 51:55
  And so it's like the point of the watching the news, right?
• 51:58
  If you get to the point in Bitcoin
• 52:00
  where you're watching Squawk Box and CNBC
• 52:04
  and trying to tie...
• 52:04
  I'm the market and you're like, oh, my God, now I now because I'm a Bitcoiner and I care about money and I care about the financial world and my financial position, I'm going to start trying to take agency over the result.
• 52:16
  Right. And it's like it's it's never the outcome. It's always the journey. And so that's where I think about Gen Z and their relationship with Bitcoin.
• 52:23
  I hope that what I'm able to share is it's always a journey, but your life's a journey.
• 52:28
  Learning about Bitcoin and participating in the community and putting yourself in a position to succeed in this new world is a journey.
• 52:35
  And do not sacrifice who you are, right, or Bitcoin or for the result.
• 52:41
  For sure. I will slightly challenge you on this just because there's I think there's a there's a healthy balance.
• 52:48
  And I agree that as a young person, once you realize the world's problem and Bitcoin, ESO, and regardless if you have any, if you just understand and start thinking along these lines, you will be setting yourself up for more success than just in general.
• 53:07
  less surprise in life because you're more or less prepared because now you've mentally go there
• 53:12
  knowing it's coming but there's such a precious timing of being young i'm not that many years
• 53:20
  older than you but i feel like we i've just passed that phase that you're currently going on and then
• 53:27
  i feel like i'm so grateful for myself actually spent the amount of money that i spent to go on
• 53:34
  side quests.
• 53:36
  Yeah.
• 53:36
  Right Cause I and that where I met people that changed my life And this is how this is ultimately how Ivy Lumi was born And I started making music So it it very beautiful in the serendipity and the uncertainty of things to say to know yourself so much to have the conviction to invest in yourself
• 53:59
  That's really powerful because it's a conscious decision for you.
• 54:03
  And you didn't let go of these live experiences that's every day that's happening to stack Sats.
• 54:11
  And that Sats, in the end, you don't know about tomorrow, ultimately.
• 54:15
  I want to share this story for both Gen Z, younger generation who are just getting serious about Bitcoin
• 54:21
  and understanding the importance of securing a financial future.
• 54:25
  Good for you. Good for you. For real.
• 54:27
  But there's a flip side of that, right?
• 54:29
  Like the time that we have use itself, it's so precious.
• 54:34
  And there's so much beauty in it.
• 54:37
  Use your time and energy and money to really do cultivate that beauty, to really, really
• 54:43
  go beyond yourself for yourself and in yourself, invest in yourself, believe in yourself.
• 54:49
  Because that's like a really good form of, I believe in myself.
• 54:53
  I'm putting my money for myself, right?
• 54:56
  Like I'm investing in myself.
• 54:58
  That's a really powerful, empowering moment.
• 55:01
  So I want more people and regardless of your age, like to, to experience that.
• 55:06
  And even you're six years old looking to go on your first solo trip, do it.
• 55:11
  And then you by the end of the trip you gonna find so much more about you find out so much more about life and then realize oh this is why I stacking sets right this is why i saving for and and the life itself it gonna be the place where we embrace culture
• 55:27
  where we get together to celebrate and solve problems i say and i tell others this there's a
• 55:35
  lot of ways to make money yeah if you are in bitcoin and you're obsessing over bitcoin because
• 55:41
  it's going to make you rich. That's the wrong perception. I'll say that blanket statement,
• 55:46
  that might be, again, that might be an outcome, but there are so many different paths to that
• 55:50
  outcome, right? And you could do that when you're 20, you could do that when you're 30,
• 55:54
  you could do that when you're 40, right? There are going to continue to be ways to make money.
• 55:58
  Do not sacrifice today and living for some outcome that's not guaranteed.
• 56:05
  Yeah, totally. And I can totally see that you're on this path of creating that future and
• 56:10
  bringing everybody together and connecting the creators and the audience and really empowering
• 56:17
  the next generations to not in a cookie cutter way, right? Not in a cookie cutter way. You're
• 56:23
  really encouraging and providing tools and platforms for them to really find out who they
• 56:28
  are and what does it mean for them to contribute in a society or in a community that they find value
• 56:35
  in. It needs to be a voluntary process. And I love how you are front running this movement. And I
• 56:43
  think you're completely a leader in that regard. So don't be shy and lead us.
• 56:50
  And it a wonderful opportunity for just individuals It a wonderful opportunity to discover ourselves through the lens of Bitcoin it really acts as a mirror to see our true self if we willing to go there
• 57:05
  and then it's about what what next what now right how can we act accordingly and make the world a
• 57:10
  better place so super grateful for you sharing the story Kyle and your work around Bitplaza and super
• 57:17
  looking forward to where the synergy lies in the near future how we can co-create a better cultural
• 57:25
  future for bitcoiners and beyond and really to walk on the path to save to heal humanity with
• 57:33
  more kindness more love more beauty and some money i love it this was wonderful thank you so much
• 57:40
  yes to anybody that's listening whether you're gen z or older i'm i'm here to support your journey
• 57:46
  in Bitcoin or in life.
• 57:48
  And I just love connecting with others.
• 57:50
  So don't ever hesitate to reach out.
• 57:52
  But if you know Ivy, you'll know me.
• 57:54
  I won't be too far.
• 57:55
  How do our community stay close to your work?
• 57:59
  Yeah, website is joinbitplaza.com.
• 58:01
  Otherwise, the Bitcoin Student Network.
• 58:03
  I'm the executive director there.
• 58:04
  On LinkedIn, who has Kyle Knight.
• 58:06
  Or on Twitter, if you prefer, BucketHatBTC.
• 58:09
  All right.
• 58:10
  Thank you so much.
• 58:11
  And where to find Kyle?
• 58:12
  I'll make sure to have these links in the link description.
• 58:15
  So feel free to go to your platform to find and follow what Kyle's move next.
• 58:23
  Thanks, Ivy.
• 58:24
  All right. Thank you so much for tuning into today's Live with Bitcoin.
• 58:27
  Thank you, Kyle, for joining me in today's episode.
• 58:31
  I'm your host, Ivy Lumi, and we'll see you in the next one.