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The Royal Tenenbaums with Jenny Yang · The Bechdel Cast

0:00
Speaker 1: On the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies
0:03
Speaker 1: have women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends
0:07
Speaker 1: and husbands or do they have individualism the patriarchy? Zef
0:11
Speaker 1: in best start changing it with the Beck del Cast. Hi,
0:16
Speaker 1: and welcome to the Battle Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus,
0:18
Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Dronte, and this is our podcast
0:20
Speaker 1: about the portrayal of women in movies. That's right. We
0:23
Speaker 1: measure it sort of by the Beck Dold test, or
0:26
Speaker 1: that's our jumping off point UM, which for us is
0:28
Speaker 1: a test that requires that a movie has two female
0:31
Speaker 1: identifying characters who have names, they speak to each other
0:35
Speaker 1: about something other than a man, and their conversation has
0:37
Speaker 1: to be at least two lines of dialogue. Bar pretty
0:42
Speaker 1: easy to do, but some movies really struggle. I would
0:46
Speaker 1: say most movies great transition into the movie and really
0:51
Speaker 1: the body of work. This is a popular request for us,
0:55
Speaker 1: and I would just say movies of this particular filmmaker,
0:58
Speaker 1: people get a real freshman year attachment to this is
1:03
Speaker 1: a peak, you know, like have you ever had sex
1:07
Speaker 1: with a guy that has a French poster of Oh okay?
1:10
Speaker 1: Hard to stop in but I've I've you know, I
1:13
Speaker 1: feel like many people have had the experience of hooking
1:15
Speaker 1: up with someone who has a framed poster of this
1:18
Speaker 1: filmmaker in their house, and it is a real red flag.
1:22
Speaker 1: I mean, less of a red flag than a lot
1:25
Speaker 1: of directors, but yeah, not the biggest red flag, but
1:29
Speaker 1: a little, a little, a little waving to say, hey,
1:31
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to explain something to you and soon. Yeah.
1:36
Speaker 1: So the director we're talking about, of course, is West Anderson.
1:39
Speaker 1: The movie we're covering today is The Royal Tenenbombs. First,
1:44
Speaker 1: before we get into our heavy discourse, let's know, some
1:49
Speaker 1: heavy flow discourse today. Yeah, let's introduce our guest. She's
1:55
Speaker 1: a stand up comic. She is an actor, she is
1:57
Speaker 1: a writer, and she's so wonderful. Jenny. Yeah, thank you
2:01
Speaker 1: for having me, Thanks for being here. Let's do this.
2:04
Speaker 1: Let's do it. Okay, So we're taking taking the Wes
2:08
Speaker 1: Anderson bullet. No one's been brave enough apparently. But you know,
2:12
Speaker 1: The Royal Tannon Bombs was like a movie I used
2:14
Speaker 1: to consider one of my favorites. I think that's pretty common.
2:18
Speaker 1: I I, well, when did you first see this movie?
2:20
Speaker 1: What's your history with the movie. I mean, I feel
2:22
Speaker 1: like I saw it in the early adds like everyone else,
2:25
Speaker 1: you know, when it came out ish like, but like
2:27
Speaker 1: not in the theaters. I forget if I saw it
2:30
Speaker 1: in the theaters. I just remember it made a really
2:32
Speaker 1: strong impression on me because I feel like I was
2:35
Speaker 1: probably already raised so basic with pop culture that, you know,
2:39
Speaker 1: to me, seeing a Wes Anderson moving like royal Tannon
2:42
Speaker 1: bombs was like it blew my mind. I was like, oh, wow,
2:45
Speaker 1: this is so stylized and so artsy, you know, and
2:49
Speaker 1: so I I think that was like one of my
2:51
Speaker 1: first tastes of something that wasn't just a typical popcorn movie. Yeah. Yeah,
2:58
Speaker 1: And it really made an impression, I think, probably because
3:00
Speaker 1: there's such a melancholy in the movie and it's really
3:05
Speaker 1: about like a dysfunctional family, which, in a weird way,
3:08
Speaker 1: even though I'm like not white, um, I related to
3:11
Speaker 1: them somewhat, you know. Was sort of like a messed
3:15
Speaker 1: up patriarch kind of a storyline. And I just like
3:18
Speaker 1: the sort of droll like irony and sense of humor
3:22
Speaker 1: in it because it was still like pretty new and
3:25
Speaker 1: like interesting at this point where I feel like a
3:27
Speaker 1: lot of people have exhaustion with it now, but oh
3:32
Speaker 1: one Wes Anderson, we're talking peak West Andrewson fresh and
3:36
Speaker 1: this was one of his earlier ones. Yeah, before this,
3:39
Speaker 1: of the features, he did Bottle Rocket and Rushmore and
3:42
Speaker 1: I think maybe that's it as far as his like
3:45
Speaker 1: notable features. Yeah, but those are like the only the
3:48
Speaker 1: movies that like indie film nerds kind of Guilty is Charged.
3:57
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I think I also saw this, not
4:00
Speaker 1: in the theaters, but shortly after it came out. I
4:02
Speaker 1: think it was my first exposure to Mr Wes Anderson.
4:06
Speaker 1: At the time, I was like, Yeah, I'm into this.
4:09
Speaker 1: I like the production design, the cinema tug, all the
4:14
Speaker 1: meson sin. I was all for it. And now I
4:17
Speaker 1: go back and I revisit this or I see other
4:20
Speaker 1: Wes Anderson movies and I'm reminded that they usually story
4:25
Speaker 1: wise for me, this I think we were because we
4:29
Speaker 1: watched this movie together. I have seen this movie before,
4:33
Speaker 1: I think at some point in college. But and I
4:36
Speaker 1: think that this Jenny, I'm interested in your take on this.
4:39
Speaker 1: But so far, with people we've talked to, there's a
4:42
Speaker 1: lot of Wes Anderson movies that you know you've seen,
4:46
Speaker 1: but you cannot remember anything that happens in the movie,
4:50
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, that's the one about camp And
4:52
Speaker 1: then if someone's like, well, what happened. We were asking
4:55
Speaker 1: Jack O'Brien at how stuff works. He was like, oh, yeah,
4:58
Speaker 1: I loved I think he said like of Aquatic. I
5:00
Speaker 1: was like, oh, what is that one? He's like, uh, Submarine.
5:05
Speaker 1: I was like, oh yeah, I love that, and you
5:08
Speaker 1: cannot tell me one thing that happens, but I don't
5:11
Speaker 1: know what it is. Most of his movies tend to
5:13
Speaker 1: explore kind of the same themes, but it's not like
5:16
Speaker 1: they're totally with you. I mean, Darjeeling Limited is just
5:20
Speaker 1: straight up a bad one, but like they're not boring movies.
5:24
Speaker 1: There's stuff that's happening, but maybe it's just so stylized
5:27
Speaker 1: that that's all you can retain, or it's just I
5:31
Speaker 1: don't know. I know I've seen at least three Wes
5:33
Speaker 1: Anderson movies. Couldn't tell you what happens in one of them.
5:36
Speaker 1: It's just like, I feel like, if you've studied music,
5:39
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of dynamics in a Wes Anderson movie.
5:42
Speaker 1: It all kind of just the notes just kind of
5:45
Speaker 1: center around this middle part, right, emotional notes, energy, right,
5:52
Speaker 1: it just kind of stays right, pretty static. Yeah. Right, So,
5:55
Speaker 1: so I feel like and the look of it is
5:58
Speaker 1: all kind of in that same kind of like you know,
6:01
Speaker 1: early Instagram filter, right and pretty wide, way too much headroom. Yeah,
6:09
Speaker 1: like we're living. Yeah, It's it's all just that, right,
6:12
Speaker 1: And so that's why I feel like, you know, visually,
6:14
Speaker 1: two people will just kind of confuse one West Sanderson
6:17
Speaker 1: movie with another. It's like we're living inside of like
6:19
Speaker 1: a thrift store diorama, you know, and so and they're
6:23
Speaker 1: just swapping out these dioramas. But but for me, though,
6:26
Speaker 1: I feel like, maybe, you know, Bottle Rock, it might
6:28
Speaker 1: have been a little different, but I feel like it
6:29
Speaker 1: was Royal Tannon Bombs that really set the tone for
6:31
Speaker 1: like the look of his more commercially successful films after that, right, absolutely, yeah,
6:36
Speaker 1: And so I feel like I feel like, no matter what,
6:39
Speaker 1: Royal Tannon Bombs might stick out a little more for
6:41
Speaker 1: people in terms of being memorable. But yeah, after that,
6:44
Speaker 1: it's gets kind of blurry. It's kind of yeah, the
6:47
Speaker 1: tone is sort of set with this movie, and then
6:49
Speaker 1: you're like visually and I'm sure you know, people who
6:53
Speaker 1: know a lot about film know the specifics, but like,
6:56
Speaker 1: visually frame from Royal Tannon Bombs and frame from moon
7:01
Speaker 1: Rise Kingdom the same fucking things. Like it's like and
7:04
Speaker 1: now it's not even a bad thing. It's okay to
7:06
Speaker 1: have consistency throughout a body of work. But the Wes
7:09
Speaker 1: Anderson theory. If you are listening and you consider yourself
7:13
Speaker 1: a fan of Wes Anderson's work, I defy you try
7:15
Speaker 1: to uh summarize one of his movies and not just
7:19
Speaker 1: have it be like, that's the one about dogs, that's
7:21
Speaker 1: the one about camp, that's the one about underwater, that's
7:25
Speaker 1: the one about I don't know Bill Murray's in it.
7:27
Speaker 1: Like that, Oh, I think that serves as a great
7:30
Speaker 1: transition to the recap, which I will try my best
7:33
Speaker 1: to do. I just watch the movie twice and I
7:36
Speaker 1: still don't. Okay. Basically, we learn about this family of
7:40
Speaker 1: Tenant Bombs. The patriarch is Royal Tenant Bomb played by
7:45
Speaker 1: Jane Hackman. He's married to Ethelene. They have three kids, Chaz,
7:50
Speaker 1: Margot and Ritchie, and they're like a bunch of baby geniuses.
7:54
Speaker 1: They're these very accomplished kids who like do a lot
7:56
Speaker 1: in their youth and they're very exceptional, and and that's
7:59
Speaker 1: pulled um a bunch of different sources. Where the Magnificent
8:02
Speaker 1: Anderson's is an Orson Wells film that's referenced pretty heavily
8:06
Speaker 1: in this, and then it's also referencing J. D. Salinger's
8:10
Speaker 1: Glass Family. I believe you're called so Wes Anderson he's
8:14
Speaker 1: pulling from other male ahturs of note of like the
8:19
Speaker 1: White family that's really smart but tragic, Like that's he's
8:24
Speaker 1: clearly pulling from that sort of stock story, right. Yeah.
8:28
Speaker 1: So it's this family of like exceptional young kids and
8:31
Speaker 1: the plarents split up when they're fairly young, and they
8:35
Speaker 1: kind of estranged themselves from Royal Tenenbaumb until a few
8:39
Speaker 1: things happen where he gets kicked out of his hotel
8:41
Speaker 1: room and he's broke and he doesn't really know what
8:43
Speaker 1: to do, so he decides to reconnect with his family
8:45
Speaker 1: under the ruse of telling them that he is dying
8:49
Speaker 1: so they will basically take sympathy on him and be
8:52
Speaker 1: more willing to reconnect with him. So this happens for
8:55
Speaker 1: a while where the family who had kind of drifted
8:57
Speaker 1: apart over the years, gets back together. They're all under
9:00
Speaker 1: one roof again where Ethylene lives. Ethylene is considering getting remarried,
9:05
Speaker 1: yes to Henry played by Danny Glover right, and then
9:09
Speaker 1: all of the kids have kind of they were exceptional
9:12
Speaker 1: in their youth, but they've kind of like leveled out
9:15
Speaker 1: and they're not that great anymore, or they're just not
9:18
Speaker 1: exceptional the way they were when they were kids. So
9:20
Speaker 1: they're sort of reconnecting, and over the course of a
9:25
Speaker 1: few days or so, um, it comes out the Royal
9:29
Speaker 1: is not actually dying of stomach cancer like he says
9:31
Speaker 1: he is. Uh, he just made that all up so
9:34
Speaker 1: that people would take pity on him and want to
9:36
Speaker 1: hang out with him again. So then he gets kind
9:39
Speaker 1: of cast away again. But the family is still sort
9:41
Speaker 1: of like working through their issues and their relationships with
9:44
Speaker 1: each other in that like two of them are in love.
9:47
Speaker 1: But it's fine. It's fine because Margot is adopted Paltrow.
9:54
Speaker 1: So basically the story ends with the family reconnecting just
9:59
Speaker 1: as Gene Hackman's character wanted, but under unusual circumstances, and
10:04
Speaker 1: so flash forward, he dies, and then the movie ends
10:08
Speaker 1: when the company Goop is is founded. Marco has a
10:13
Speaker 1: wild idea. What is she founded the most annoying company possible?
10:18
Speaker 1: Then goop starts, Wait does that happen? No, Like I'm
10:22
Speaker 1: talking about Gwyneth two snail cream. Oh okay, I am
10:28
Speaker 1: aware of Gwyneth and her products, Gwyneth her content. You know,
10:33
Speaker 1: I would say live in ignorance with Gwyneth and her products.
10:37
Speaker 1: It's a lot okay. Yeah, So yeah, that's basically the story,
10:43
Speaker 1: and there are some interesting things to talk about there. Yeah,
10:48
Speaker 1: I guess I guess so much, so much, yeah, or
10:52
Speaker 1: so little. There's I don't know, Like I have a
10:56
Speaker 1: lot of notes for this. It's but it's hard to
10:58
Speaker 1: know where to star. Well, so there's two main female
11:02
Speaker 1: characters of any note in, Margot played by Gwyneth Patro
11:06
Speaker 1: and Ethylene played by Angelica Houston. Right, So the first
11:10
Speaker 1: opening sequence of the movie is our introduction of the
11:12
Speaker 1: young Tenembombs, and we learn a little bit about the
11:17
Speaker 1: children and then the parents as well. So with like Ethylene,
11:21
Speaker 1: we learned that her main concern was the children's education,
11:23
Speaker 1: and then it pretty quickly cuts away from her it
11:26
Speaker 1: goes to Chaz. We learned about him loving finance, he
11:29
Speaker 1: bread Dalmatian mice. He was a real estate mogul as
11:33
Speaker 1: a small child. Then we learned about Margot. We learned
11:35
Speaker 1: that she is adopted. She is a playwright. Um. We
11:38
Speaker 1: see her in a dark room, we see her doing ballet. Um.
11:43
Speaker 1: She camps out in a library for a while with
11:45
Speaker 1: her brother Richie. She's not like the other girls, right,
11:48
Speaker 1: she smokes and she's I don't know, there's And then
11:56
Speaker 1: we learned about Ritchie, who was a stark tennis player.
11:58
Speaker 1: We see him playing with a ham radio. He has
12:01
Speaker 1: a drum set, He paints pictures of Margo. He has
12:04
Speaker 1: a bird named Mordecai. And then we learned about Royal
12:07
Speaker 1: and that he was a litigator until he was disbarred
12:10
Speaker 1: in the mid eighties. So we're getting an introduction to
12:12
Speaker 1: all these characters. It feels as though the two women
12:15
Speaker 1: that we learned about, I don't know, they just feel
12:17
Speaker 1: more glossed over or like. The only accomplishment that is
12:20
Speaker 1: noted for Margo is that she won like the Braverman
12:23
Speaker 1: Grant in ninth grade for a play she wrote. But
12:26
Speaker 1: for the boys, it's like, oh, they did this thing,
12:28
Speaker 1: and they did this thing, and they did this thing.
12:29
Speaker 1: And did, and then Ethelene is like basically just described
12:33
Speaker 1: in the context of her being a mother in that sequence.
12:37
Speaker 1: So right away, I feel like it's sort of that
12:39
Speaker 1: whole thing lays the groundwork for how the female characters
12:43
Speaker 1: will be treated throughout the rest of the movie. It's
12:45
Speaker 1: interesting because it's it's like the story has like the
12:48
Speaker 1: skeleton of female characters that could be well developed if
12:52
Speaker 1: the movie was going to like invest time in it.
12:55
Speaker 1: Like we know that Ethleene is an archaeologist and a
12:59
Speaker 1: really good one, Like she has this career, and and
13:02
Speaker 1: there's enough there that we could explore something outside of
13:06
Speaker 1: how she behaves as a mother and a wife. But
13:09
Speaker 1: that's all the movie really chooses to explore it, which
13:12
Speaker 1: is frustrating because she's like, well there's more, there's more there,
13:15
Speaker 1: but it just we just don't really get to see it. No,
13:17
Speaker 1: we don't, you know. When I was watching, I kind
13:19
Speaker 1: of like looked at like when the women said lines,
13:24
Speaker 1: and it really wasn't until like a third of the
13:27
Speaker 1: way in that, like Ethelene finally talked to her daughter. Yeah, everyone,
13:34
Speaker 1: it was like a while, and even before that, each
13:36
Speaker 1: of them got maybe one or two lines, right because
13:39
Speaker 1: in terms of like the Bechdel tests, like you're like, well,
13:41
Speaker 1: that's going to be the scene that would pass if
13:44
Speaker 1: we get to see these characters together at all, Like
13:48
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of the question of like will
13:51
Speaker 1: we get to see them together? And it takes a
13:53
Speaker 1: long time, which is kind of a bummer too because
13:57
Speaker 1: Ethelene and well, I guess if we start with Royal,
14:01
Speaker 1: Royal has medi substantial scenes with all three of his children,
14:06
Speaker 1: with some of them more than once. Evelyne kind of doesn't.
14:10
Speaker 1: We see her interact with all three of her children,
14:13
Speaker 1: but it's not with the same amount of depth. It
14:17
Speaker 1: doesn't reveal as much about her character. It sort of
14:20
Speaker 1: exists more to tell us about her kids and not
14:24
Speaker 1: really anything about her, where the Royal scenes are either
14:27
Speaker 1: like equal of like we're learning about him and his
14:31
Speaker 1: child or we're just learning about him and like why
14:34
Speaker 1: he is a liar or why you're something about his past,
14:37
Speaker 1: Where I mean we learn a lot about Royal Tenan
14:40
Speaker 1: bombs past, we don't really learn we learned about Ethelyne's
14:43
Speaker 1: past as it pertains to Royal. I think that's what's
14:47
Speaker 1: messed up about this is that it is about a
14:49
Speaker 1: dysfunctional family that is dysfunctional primarily in response to how
14:54
Speaker 1: messed up Royal is, right, the patriarch, and so this whole,
14:58
Speaker 1: this whole story is surround being sort of royal driving
15:02
Speaker 1: what's happening. Right, So he's like wants to get back
15:05
Speaker 1: in with the family so that he can intervene and
15:08
Speaker 1: really have a relationship. So he's always the one trying
15:11
Speaker 1: to instigate something or call one of his kids out,
15:14
Speaker 1: whereas Ethylene only serves as like a typical female counterbalance,
15:20
Speaker 1: kind of patriarchal counterbalance to that, which is like she's
15:23
Speaker 1: the one to soothe, to coax to like yeah, exactly,
15:28
Speaker 1: she's to clean up the messer. And obviously that's probably
15:32
Speaker 1: reflective of their relationship. And I think that it poses
15:35
Speaker 1: the same question I always have, which is, if say,
15:38
Speaker 1: we do want to talk about how messed up the
15:41
Speaker 1: patriarchy is, you know, and we write a story about it,
15:45
Speaker 1: how much is that just simply continuing to put a
15:48
Speaker 1: spotlight on the men to reflect to you know what
15:50
Speaker 1: I mean, rather than really dismantling it or in doing it.
15:53
Speaker 1: And I think that's what's tough. You know. On the
15:56
Speaker 1: one hand, like if I have a similarly messed up
15:58
Speaker 1: kind of patriarchal dad, and I want to write about
16:00
Speaker 1: that to dissect it. Does that mean I'm giving more
16:03
Speaker 1: power to that person's voice, you know what I'm saying,
16:07
Speaker 1: Like like because we're because we're still saying Royal is
16:10
Speaker 1: the one taking the action. He's he's getting protagonists. Yeah,
16:14
Speaker 1: he gets all the fun scenes. I think, Yeah, I
16:17
Speaker 1: think that that is part of it. Yeah, Like the
16:19
Speaker 1: movie isn't critical enough of him where he is, Like
16:23
Speaker 1: the way that like misogyny is displayed through Royals is
16:27
Speaker 1: like lighthearted and you can imagine a giggle in the
16:31
Speaker 1: movie theater cheeky. Yeah, and the same with when he's
16:33
Speaker 1: like being racist against Danny Glover's character is like, oh,
16:38
Speaker 1: just an old guy being an old guy, and it
16:41
Speaker 1: normalizes it pretty quickly in the context of the movie.
16:43
Speaker 1: And and then at the end, what what I mean,
16:46
Speaker 1: I forgot literally everything that happened in this movie, But
16:49
Speaker 1: I definitely forgot the end where I feel like we
16:53
Speaker 1: we get close to criticizing Royal when he's kicked out
16:56
Speaker 1: of the house and they're like, no, fuck you, you
16:58
Speaker 1: can't lie to us anymore. You're you're cast out. But
17:01
Speaker 1: then in the end, you know, he does sort of apologize,
17:06
Speaker 1: but that was even that was like, did he really
17:08
Speaker 1: And then at the end he dies and sort of
17:11
Speaker 1: the takeaway of the movie is like, well, if he
17:14
Speaker 1: hadn't a lot all those times, the family wouldn't be
17:17
Speaker 1: back together. And I was just like, oh, so we should.
17:21
Speaker 1: So it ends up being completely uncritical of the patriarchy
17:27
Speaker 1: and the patriarch in that they're like, well, yeah, mistakes
17:31
Speaker 1: were made, but families chill now, And it wouldn't have
17:34
Speaker 1: been if he hadn't like faked cancer and gas light
17:37
Speaker 1: his whole family. Like I was just like, no, what
17:40
Speaker 1: they're like the consequences of this, Uh, the Shenanigans actually
17:45
Speaker 1: was kind of good if he worked out. If we
17:49
Speaker 1: end this movie with like and we've cast out the
17:51
Speaker 1: patriarch who clearly has no respect for us or himself,
17:55
Speaker 1: and uh, well we're all here, so let's hang out
17:58
Speaker 1: and keep him out of our lives. That's a maybe
18:02
Speaker 1: less movie. I mean, it's one of those we talked
18:05
Speaker 1: about this. Uh. I think on our How the Grinch
18:09
Speaker 1: Stole Christmas episode and on our Muppet Christmas Carol episode
18:14
Speaker 1: about the male redemption stories that we see so much
18:17
Speaker 1: of where it's like, like, sure, if you want to
18:20
Speaker 1: make a movie about a dysfunctional family and how everyone
18:24
Speaker 1: is messed up as a result of at least one
18:26
Speaker 1: of the parents disservicing their children in some way, great,
18:30
Speaker 1: that's an interesting story, but like, why do we have
18:33
Speaker 1: to hear it from the point of view of the
18:34
Speaker 1: person who did the messing up? Like why can't we?
18:39
Speaker 1: I mean, you know there are movies that explore it
18:41
Speaker 1: from different points of view, but it's just like, yeah,
18:43
Speaker 1: I just I have so little patience to the point
18:45
Speaker 1: where the movie is named after the yeah, like yeah,
18:50
Speaker 1: it it ends up. There are moments where it approaches
18:54
Speaker 1: being critical, but ultimately he's a redumable character. He ends
18:59
Speaker 1: up think everything he wanted, which was the relationship with
19:02
Speaker 1: his family, which he got after years of lying, and
19:06
Speaker 1: then kind of a half past apology. So that's all.
19:09
Speaker 1: It takes great lifetime of trauma and therapy. No, no way,
19:16
Speaker 1: like just a sorry maybe just like might be like
19:20
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? I don't know, Yeah, the
19:23
Speaker 1: male redemption story and then there's a lot of men
19:26
Speaker 1: who are redeemed in the course of this story. Royal
19:30
Speaker 1: is the main one. But I think also with Richie,
19:33
Speaker 1: there's sort of like a redemption story told there. Should
19:37
Speaker 1: we jump into him and Margot? Now, yeah, this very
19:41
Speaker 1: bizarre romantic relationship is established between Ritchie, who is a
19:47
Speaker 1: biological tenenbomb, and Margot, who is an adopted Tenan bomb.
19:52
Speaker 1: This is the premise of the most searched porn on porn. Okay, yeah,
20:00
Speaker 1: like you see that, You're like, this is this is
20:02
Speaker 1: a Wes Anderson thing. There must be a Wes Anderson
20:06
Speaker 1: Richie and Margot. I'm gonna go search after this CP incognito.
20:16
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it in plain sight. I don't care
20:18
Speaker 1: who knows. I'm going to Starbucks right now, gorgeous symmetrical pornography.
20:27
Speaker 1: A Kink song is playing in the background this time tomorrows.
20:34
Speaker 1: I mean, they have face flopping technology, so who knows.
20:36
Speaker 1: Maybe it's you know, kind of a joint. Okay. So
20:42
Speaker 1: this this relationship is established where for the most part
20:45
Speaker 1: we see Richie like pining over Margot. He's painting pictures
20:50
Speaker 1: of her, he's waiting at the bus stop for her. Yeah,
20:54
Speaker 1: but then whenever it comes out finally that they basically
20:58
Speaker 1: confess their love for each other, and at this point
21:02
Speaker 1: we don't really know that Margot had loved him. We
21:06
Speaker 1: only find out in that moment because we're seeing most
21:09
Speaker 1: of the nature of their relationship through Richie's point of view.
21:13
Speaker 1: So one, I find it weird that we don't know
21:16
Speaker 1: how she feels about totally. That's her reaction whenever he's
21:20
Speaker 1: like I love you, and she's like, I love you too,
21:23
Speaker 1: and then they kiss, and then they lie down and
21:25
Speaker 1: a tent together, like we didn't know because she is
21:29
Speaker 1: married to Bill Murray's character Raleigh, and then also was
21:33
Speaker 1: having an affair with Eli Rock and not Eli Rock,
21:36
Speaker 1: like so yeah, so she was. She's engaged in multiple
21:43
Speaker 1: relationships with men, which means that she is the object.
21:46
Speaker 1: I feel like Margot's main purpose in the story is
21:49
Speaker 1: to be the object of several men's affection. The same
21:54
Speaker 1: for Ethelene, where it's the push and pull between like
21:58
Speaker 1: is Royal gonna rope her back in? Or is she
22:03
Speaker 1: going to marry Henry? There's no option presented where she
22:06
Speaker 1: can be single. Kind of the same for Marco. And
22:10
Speaker 1: there's those two montage scenes in regards to those characters
22:14
Speaker 1: that I wanted to talk about where there's a lot
22:17
Speaker 1: of montage scenes in all of wes Anderson's work, and
22:21
Speaker 1: and these aren't the only ones that appear, but the
22:24
Speaker 1: two montage scenes that are specific to Marco and to
22:28
Speaker 1: Ethylene are almost exclusively about their sexual history. Yes, well,
22:35
Speaker 1: in Margot's case, not all meant but mostly right, where
22:39
Speaker 1: Like we see highlights from Margot's life and it's like
22:42
Speaker 1: she starts to smoke, she leaves school. The rest is
22:47
Speaker 1: for sexual right, and then for Ethylene, it's here are
22:51
Speaker 1: the men that she's dated since she and Royal tennan
22:55
Speaker 1: bomb broke up, and then we get finally to Henry,
22:59
Speaker 1: who is the new man in her life. So there's
23:03
Speaker 1: no there's really no ambiguity about like what matters to
23:06
Speaker 1: the story with these characters, where there are other elements
23:09
Speaker 1: of their lives. But that's not what wes Anderson and
23:13
Speaker 1: co writer Owen Wilson really want your attention on, right,
23:17
Speaker 1: because we don't see any such montages like that of
23:20
Speaker 1: characters romantic or sexual histories with any of the male characters,
23:25
Speaker 1: noticed only with Ethylene and Margot, which is a very
23:28
Speaker 1: deliberate choice and a very glaring they do give. They
23:33
Speaker 1: give Ben Stiller's character a different trope, which is the
23:36
Speaker 1: good old fashioned dead wife his wife, and they do
23:41
Speaker 1: go to see her gravestone, much like in The Rock
23:44
Speaker 1: his favorite movies. Yeah, Ben Stillers and the and his
23:50
Speaker 1: wife who we never meet, but her death is the
23:54
Speaker 1: main thing that defines his character is dealing with and
24:00
Speaker 1: how that has manifested in him being extremely overprotective of
24:04
Speaker 1: his two sons and being like very overly concerned with
24:08
Speaker 1: their safety. That's a part of the movie I didn't dislike.
24:11
Speaker 1: I thought it was like kind of nice and a
24:13
Speaker 1: little unusual to see a single father definitely being overbearing,
24:18
Speaker 1: but being a pretty solid parent throughout the movie, Like
24:23
Speaker 1: definitely overprotective, but usually like if you see a single father.
24:27
Speaker 1: You don't see a lot of single fathers in movies
24:29
Speaker 1: at all, um, but especially like if you do see
24:32
Speaker 1: a single father, he's fucking up and he you know,
24:35
Speaker 1: he doesn't get it, can't relate with his kids or whatever.
24:37
Speaker 1: And I mean to like the Chad's tennem bomb character
24:40
Speaker 1: is a good dad who clearly is suffering from PTSD.
24:46
Speaker 1: But but I agree, Yeah, but also Ben still is
24:50
Speaker 1: just really good at playing nervous. He's great and yeah,
24:57
Speaker 1: and then the best visual pun in the whole movie
24:59
Speaker 1: is a the end when Royal tenan bomb does Ben
25:04
Speaker 1: still learn his son's show up in black track suits
25:07
Speaker 1: to the funeral because they have been in red Adida's
25:09
Speaker 1: track suits up until that point. They switched it up
25:12
Speaker 1: out of respect. These characters do not stray far from
25:15
Speaker 1: their costume design solid aesthetic um. Back to the relationship
25:21
Speaker 1: between Margot and Richie, I mean, why was the choice made.
25:27
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not technically an incestual relationship because they're
25:31
Speaker 1: not related by blood, but it's weird. I mean, I
25:33
Speaker 1: feel like it it introduces, like, in theory, if we
25:38
Speaker 1: paid a little more attention to the Marco character outside
25:41
Speaker 1: of how she relates to the men, you know, or
25:44
Speaker 1: how she furthers the male stories, we don't need that
25:48
Speaker 1: romance at all. Really, Like, if if you took the
25:52
Speaker 1: time spent on Margot and Richie's not incestual relationship and
25:58
Speaker 1: put that into flashing out the background of Margot and
26:02
Speaker 1: of Ethylene a little more, you almost like don't really
26:06
Speaker 1: need it. I don't hate that it's there, but I
26:10
Speaker 1: do think that it just, yeah, it kind of takes
26:13
Speaker 1: away from Margot's character quite a bit because it's like
26:16
Speaker 1: even the first time you see Margot as an adult,
26:19
Speaker 1: it's such a male, like a kind of a comically
26:22
Speaker 1: male gazy shot where she gets off the bus and
26:25
Speaker 1: it's like slow motion and he loves her, and you're like, wait,
26:29
Speaker 1: but he's her brother, and you know, I don't know.
26:33
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know where I fall in that
26:35
Speaker 1: well for me. So after the family discovers that Royal
26:38
Speaker 1: had been lying about having cancer, that's like halfway through
26:43
Speaker 1: the movie, which means there's a whole half of the
26:45
Speaker 1: movie to go. And where the plot goes from there
26:48
Speaker 1: is basically focusing on Richie and Margot's relationship, with a
26:52
Speaker 1: few of the subplots like weaved into that, but that's
26:56
Speaker 1: largely what the narrative focuses on. Three big things that
27:00
Speaker 1: evanced the narrative in this movie are Royal lies to
27:04
Speaker 1: his family. That's the first phase. Second phase, which I
27:08
Speaker 1: think is done pretty irresponsibly by this movie, is Ritchie
27:12
Speaker 1: tries to kill himself. That's what brings the family together
27:14
Speaker 1: the second time after they disperse. And the third thing
27:19
Speaker 1: that brings everybody together is Ethylene decides to marry Henry,
27:22
Speaker 1: and there's a wedding. Those are the three things that
27:25
Speaker 1: bring the family together. All of them are pretty intrinsically
27:28
Speaker 1: connected to either men or marriage. That's all there is
27:37
Speaker 1: the boys. The boys are back in town, or we're
27:40
Speaker 1: marrying the boys, right, Because the way that the male characters,
27:47
Speaker 1: including the narrator, talk about Margot or the way that
27:52
Speaker 1: she serves a purpose in the narrative, well like, for example,
27:57
Speaker 1: Richie attempts suicide because he has just learned that she
28:01
Speaker 1: had been having an affair with his best friend Eli,
28:05
Speaker 1: which I mean, we can get into a whole discussion
28:07
Speaker 1: about how this movie does not handle suicidality and mental
28:13
Speaker 1: illness well at all, but setting that aside, So him
28:18
Speaker 1: discovering that she was having an affair with his friend
28:21
Speaker 1: prompts Ritchie to attempt suicide. Then her husband, Raleigh played
28:26
Speaker 1: by Bill Murray, goes on this whole tirade where he
28:29
Speaker 1: blames Margo for Richie's suicide. This is shortly after he
28:33
Speaker 1: has called himself a cook and then he gets up.
28:40
Speaker 1: Earlier in the movie, Royal confronts Margot because she doesn't
28:44
Speaker 1: he doesn't like the way that she's treating her husband rally,
28:47
Speaker 1: because she's so secretive. The different montages that the narrator
28:53
Speaker 1: is describing, it's often in the context of who she's
28:57
Speaker 1: married to or who she used to be married and
28:59
Speaker 1: divorced too, and then we focus on things about her
29:03
Speaker 1: husband when we should be learning more about her. So
29:08
Speaker 1: even when she's on screen or even when she's being
29:11
Speaker 1: talked about, it's still usually in the context of her
29:14
Speaker 1: relationship to the men in her life, which is stupid.
29:21
Speaker 1: That's my hot, very academic take on that. Marco kind
29:28
Speaker 1: of like with athletes character, there's like a glimmer of like,
29:33
Speaker 1: why why don't we look at that a little more
29:35
Speaker 1: instead of making her marry someone or making her fall
29:38
Speaker 1: in love with something like you get that flashback scene
29:42
Speaker 1: where Margot looks for her birth family and finds them
29:46
Speaker 1: and then is unsatisfied, and you know, like kind of
29:51
Speaker 1: a trophy approach to the adopted child story where they
29:54
Speaker 1: go to find their origin and then it doesn't answer
29:57
Speaker 1: the question that they actually had and like doesn't end
29:59
Speaker 1: up solving all their problems. Fine, a pretty interesting scene
30:04
Speaker 1: and shows us more of that character and kind of
30:08
Speaker 1: like where she's coming from, but then it's kind of
30:10
Speaker 1: really not touched one again and and I mean, I
30:14
Speaker 1: can't say this with certainty, but it seems like part
30:17
Speaker 1: of the reason that I mean, she's made to be
30:20
Speaker 1: adopted so that it's weird as an audience, are okay
30:23
Speaker 1: with her kissing Luke Wilson, but it goes largely kind
30:28
Speaker 1: of unexplored where you see like a little piece of
30:31
Speaker 1: it and you're like, oh, that's interesting. But then the
30:34
Speaker 1: main takeaway of that is like she's still sad and
30:38
Speaker 1: it's actually fine if she makes out with Luke Wilson,
30:41
Speaker 1: and that's all really all we're given. I feel like
30:44
Speaker 1: the way that the semi incestuous relationship is covered is
30:49
Speaker 1: such an indication of how Wes Anderson portrays the depth
30:54
Speaker 1: of true relationship dynamics. It's almost like, fundamentally, this family
30:59
Speaker 1: is a codependent, dysfunctional family with a very mean and
31:05
Speaker 1: narcissistic father figure, right, and that has all of these
31:09
Speaker 1: consequences with like all the kids being depressed and probably
31:12
Speaker 1: self critical and in some way self harming. And that's
31:15
Speaker 1: really deep and like sad and awful, and that's like
31:18
Speaker 1: what happens in like a family dynamic like that. But
31:22
Speaker 1: like what Wes Anderson does is he like takes a
31:25
Speaker 1: story like that, but only skims really the like the
31:28
Speaker 1: cute and the quirky and the delightful parts for us
31:34
Speaker 1: to look at, you know, which is entertaining, But there
31:38
Speaker 1: is something to be desired when it comes to really
31:42
Speaker 1: getting into why the relationships are the way they are
31:46
Speaker 1: totally right, Like, it's like, oh, we have this sort
31:48
Speaker 1: of surface level presentation of this really dysfunctional family. The
31:53
Speaker 1: jokes are cute, the casual racism chuckle chuckle, you know,
31:57
Speaker 1: and so and so I think in the end, I've
32:00
Speaker 1: heard about dynamics where step children might grow way way
32:05
Speaker 1: too close, or even regular children grow way too close
32:08
Speaker 1: because the parents are like not really there for kids,
32:11
Speaker 1: you know. But and maybe that could be an explanation
32:14
Speaker 1: for Margo and Richie, but we don't really get that,
32:17
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, it's not like and the fact that
32:21
Speaker 1: Wes Anderson, you know, really goes out of his way
32:24
Speaker 1: to be like they are not related is a very
32:29
Speaker 1: deliberate choice in his part. And I think that the
32:31
Speaker 1: choices like I want this movie to make a lot
32:34
Speaker 1: of money and be successful, and I don't want people
32:36
Speaker 1: to feel weird about it. I wanted to be quirky
32:39
Speaker 1: and like not like the other relationships, but I don't
32:42
Speaker 1: want it to be outside of what is conventionally acceptable,
32:47
Speaker 1: and you know with in the law and all that stuff.
32:50
Speaker 1: So yeah, and then and then I really like and
32:53
Speaker 1: we don't really have time to fully unpack it, but
32:55
Speaker 1: just the way that this movie treats Richie's suicide attempt
32:58
Speaker 1: is very sudden and more graphic than I remembered, and
33:05
Speaker 1: beautifully shot though guards of symmetry, gorgeous shot of this
33:10
Speaker 1: horrifying act that is really barely commented on after it happens,
33:16
Speaker 1: and it's just I mean, it's scared to see, like
33:18
Speaker 1: he literally slits his wrists on camera, which I mean,
33:22
Speaker 1: we can argue the ethics of that. I just don't
33:24
Speaker 1: think that that's like a responsible thing to do in
33:27
Speaker 1: what you're trying to have be a mainstream movie. And
33:31
Speaker 1: then really it just serves the narrative purpose of you know,
33:35
Speaker 1: getting Margot to talk to Ritchie again and to get
33:38
Speaker 1: the family together again. And outside of that that like
33:44
Speaker 1: very drastic upsetting action is not really addressed that much
33:47
Speaker 1: after that, except of like, well Margot is talking to
33:50
Speaker 1: me again, so shrug, Like it's just it's very bizarre.
33:55
Speaker 1: I mean, the gorgeousness of the art direction and the
33:57
Speaker 1: cinematography risks rising suicide and depression, you know what I mean.
34:03
Speaker 1: It's like that was pretty well yeah, yeah, like why
34:07
Speaker 1: did that look so nice? Right? And then the scene
34:10
Speaker 1: after so you see he kind of like lays his
34:13
Speaker 1: arms onto the sink and then you see the blood
34:16
Speaker 1: kind of rushed down and then that cuts immediately to
34:20
Speaker 1: it's not comical, but it's such a juxtaposition against what
34:25
Speaker 1: we just saw that it's almost like, I don't know
34:28
Speaker 1: exactly how to describe it, but it's like a bunch
34:30
Speaker 1: of doctors and nurses and stuff like that rushing him
34:34
Speaker 1: the hall and it's like suddenly this bright colors and
34:37
Speaker 1: it's like the music, the music and the and just
34:41
Speaker 1: the movement on the screen almost makes that seem amusing. Yeah, well,
34:49
Speaker 1: I think that the especially with the music there is
34:51
Speaker 1: communicating is like and we're all back together again because
34:55
Speaker 1: this thing happened. Either that or saying like oh it's
34:58
Speaker 1: all gonna be okay, like he won't die from this,
35:01
Speaker 1: but it's still yeah, just if that felt handled irresponsible, Yeah,
35:05
Speaker 1: I mean the way that that that that shift communicated
35:09
Speaker 1: what it communicated to me was Wes Anderson saying, Oh,
35:13
Speaker 1: isn't it cute that Richie tried to commit suicide, but
35:16
Speaker 1: he's not going to be successful ha ha because he
35:19
Speaker 1: got found before. He can't get that right exactly, but
35:22
Speaker 1: that's how that felt because because the way he was
35:24
Speaker 1: found was pretty soon after he you know, started bleeding
35:28
Speaker 1: and he was on the floor of the bathroom and
35:30
Speaker 1: like the random test subject of Rally st Clair finding
35:34
Speaker 1: the teenage, Yeah, a lot of hair, a lot of
35:37
Speaker 1: hat I'd like to throw in here. Um. You know,
35:42
Speaker 1: if I were to rewrite the Royal Tannon bombs from
35:44
Speaker 1: a different perspective in order to fulfill the Bechdel test,
35:48
Speaker 1: I would write it from the perspective of Sing Sing
35:51
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, Sing Sing with this the character in
35:54
Speaker 1: the very beginning, that's the masseuse. Uh. You know, in
35:58
Speaker 1: the scene where you find out that Royal is going
36:01
Speaker 1: to get kicked out of the hotel that he's been
36:03
Speaker 1: seeing in and you pan up and you see Sing
36:05
Speaker 1: Sing is uh, you know, his his masseuse looks kind
36:08
Speaker 1: of asian e and Sing Sing is like what an
36:12
Speaker 1: elementary school bully would call me in order to make
36:15
Speaker 1: fun of my Chinese name. Yeah, so I'm just like okay,
36:20
Speaker 1: and so I would I would rewrite the royal tannem
36:22
Speaker 1: bombs from Sing Sing's perspective. You actually see Sing Sing
36:26
Speaker 1: later on um do you do? She's in the background.
36:29
Speaker 1: And I think this is very indicative of the people
36:32
Speaker 1: of color characters that in this movie. For Wes Anderson,
36:36
Speaker 1: you have Pagoda, which is it's a Japanese word for
36:38
Speaker 1: a Chinese architectural detail. That is the name that is
36:44
Speaker 1: given to the Indian man in Calcutta, that he is
36:48
Speaker 1: his sort of man servant for the royal for royal,
36:52
Speaker 1: So very bizarre, and and and and so you know,
36:55
Speaker 1: because of the sort of wide angle shots that we
36:58
Speaker 1: get of every scene, the sort of quirkiness and the
37:01
Speaker 1: benefit of the color and the texture of of these
37:04
Speaker 1: shots is that you get to see side characters and
37:06
Speaker 1: background actors and background movement right while the foreground is happening.
37:10
Speaker 1: And so so often it's either Pagoda or Sing Sing
37:14
Speaker 1: or other sort of people of color or servant type
37:17
Speaker 1: characters in the background being quirky and moving uh to
37:21
Speaker 1: to sort of be like animated gifts of delightfulness in
37:25
Speaker 1: the back and so and so I think Sing Sing
37:27
Speaker 1: would be Apparently Sing Sing showing up later probably indicates
37:31
Speaker 1: they had a really close relationship. I don't know what
37:33
Speaker 1: the nature of it. She didn't say one word, but
37:36
Speaker 1: I would rewrite that would be my wicked musical. I
37:39
Speaker 1: would rewrite Royal tannem Bombs the musical from Sing Sing's perspective. Uh,
37:44
Speaker 1: hell yeah, I'll buy it. I would watch We'll see
37:48
Speaker 1: and then she has like a secret relationship with Pagoda,
37:51
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, yeah, it's a non white characters
37:55
Speaker 1: are largely used for comic relief in this movie, with
37:59
Speaker 1: with the exception of Danny Glover's character, who's really the
38:04
Speaker 1: only non white main character in the movie, and even
38:08
Speaker 1: then he's like a bi character pretty much. Yeah, I
38:12
Speaker 1: think it just it just hints to the sort of
38:14
Speaker 1: orientalist problem that Wes Anderson tends to have, as we
38:18
Speaker 1: saw with Isle of Dogs recently. Because you know, you know,
38:23
Speaker 1: I noticed the Asian ship all the time in any movie,
38:25
Speaker 1: and so in what in this movie, the first time
38:28
Speaker 1: we see Asian ship is Sing Sing the Masseuse. The
38:31
Speaker 1: second time we see Asian ship is actually um when
38:34
Speaker 1: Royal confronts Ethylene to get back into her life, and
38:38
Speaker 1: you see they actually have in a street argument and
38:41
Speaker 1: it's in front of some kind of embassy that has
38:43
Speaker 1: Chinese words, you know, and so but it's very prominent
38:47
Speaker 1: because it's you know, it's it's ethylene and royal on
38:50
Speaker 1: the right hand side of the screen and three quarters
38:52
Speaker 1: of the rest of the screen is the sort of
38:54
Speaker 1: wall of this and you see the sign, and it's
38:57
Speaker 1: the sort of little details that tell me like it's
39:00
Speaker 1: very deliberate, because there is no scene that is not
39:03
Speaker 1: deliberate for Wes Anderson. And you know in the way
39:06
Speaker 1: that he also uses sort of essentially orientalist things as
39:09
Speaker 1: set dressing and people as set dressing. So um to me,
39:13
Speaker 1: the setting in front of a Chinese language sign of
39:16
Speaker 1: an embassy in the street of New York is no
39:19
Speaker 1: different from the fact that Sing Sing was in the
39:21
Speaker 1: background for another scene and pago to access set dressing
39:24
Speaker 1: for other scenes. I mean, Wes Anderson is an example
39:28
Speaker 1: of one of these odd toward directors that has his
39:31
Speaker 1: little like Darling's where he keeps recasting a handful of
39:35
Speaker 1: actors in his movies over and over again. You're Wilson Brothers,
39:39
Speaker 1: You're Jason Schwartzman's your Bill, Murray's maybe a couple of others,
39:44
Speaker 1: a ton of white actors exactly, mostly men um Wes
39:48
Speaker 1: Anderson on race is just a deep sigh. How do
39:52
Speaker 1: you spell that on a script? It's just like a
39:57
Speaker 1: bunch of us and yeah, but like repeated into infinity
40:03
Speaker 1: of like also a common not really a through line
40:08
Speaker 1: but basically just an image that you keep seeing. Is
40:10
Speaker 1: this cab that shows up all the time, Gypsy cab
40:14
Speaker 1: gypsy again being a slur for roma people. Not okay,
40:19
Speaker 1: I feel like this is this is another male utor
40:23
Speaker 1: issue and probably a white director issue as well, of
40:25
Speaker 1: like by thinking that the mere presence of something like
40:30
Speaker 1: makes it okay. I'm trying to articulate this correctly, but
40:34
Speaker 1: I think I know what you mean. Where he's like
40:36
Speaker 1: cute defying all this stuff that he cannot possibly understand
40:40
Speaker 1: or and and cannot represent on screen responsibly. But he's like,
40:44
Speaker 1: well it's there, so that's good. You know. I didn't
40:48
Speaker 1: ignore that because it's in my movie, So I'm doing
40:52
Speaker 1: a good job. I acknowledged that people who aren't me
40:55
Speaker 1: exist at all. So Trophy please like that cuteify ying
41:00
Speaker 1: is a good word. For the Wes Anderson filmmaking filter. Yeah,
41:05
Speaker 1: that's the name of his insta filter, slip Slipe cut.
41:11
Speaker 1: So I couldn't help but notice that towards the end,
41:13
Speaker 1: Eli crashes the wedding by literally crashing a car into
41:18
Speaker 1: the wedding. And I just wonder if that's the inspiration
41:21
Speaker 1: for the movie Wedding Crashers that he would later star in.
41:25
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just here to ask the important question.
41:27
Speaker 1: It's Wedding Crasher is a part of the expanded Wes
41:30
Speaker 1: Anderson universe. Does anyone have any final thoughts about the movie?
41:37
Speaker 1: You know, there's still a part of me that appreciates
41:40
Speaker 1: the craft and the storytelling that happened in the movie, Like,
41:44
Speaker 1: you know, I liked it back then, prewoke viewing days
41:48
Speaker 1: for a reason, you know, And I think I think
41:52
Speaker 1: there's a lot I can learn about storytelling. But but
41:54
Speaker 1: I think we're in this moment where flipping the script
41:58
Speaker 1: talking about the Begdel Test, seeing it means to hear
42:02
Speaker 1: from the voices of people you don't usually here in
42:05
Speaker 1: a more popular conversation. That means that we're all going
42:09
Speaker 1: to figure out what it might mean to like create
42:12
Speaker 1: more mainstream accessible stories right, that are more critical the patriarchy,
42:19
Speaker 1: that are gonna, you know, have us drive the story.
42:23
Speaker 1: You know, your future Broadway musical, yes string, you know
42:29
Speaker 1: the sing Sing Tannerballs featuring Pagoda. That's that's my takeaway
42:37
Speaker 1: that I want to write my wicked yeah. Yeah. And
42:40
Speaker 1: that's not to say that every single movie that comes
42:43
Speaker 1: out has to be this like hard hitting, deep analysis
42:46
Speaker 1: of the patriarchy and how to dismantle it. Because as
42:49
Speaker 1: much as I love to watch movies like that, I
42:51
Speaker 1: also love to watch just sort of mindless popcorn movies
42:56
Speaker 1: sometimes and there ye like Wes Anderson is the king
42:59
Speaker 1: of these kind of fun, quirky movies that start to
43:03
Speaker 1: maybe explore some themes that tend to go unexplored in
43:08
Speaker 1: his movies, but he really only kind of touches on
43:11
Speaker 1: the surface of them and doesn't really do much in
43:14
Speaker 1: the way of anything like that. But if you are
43:18
Speaker 1: going to have just a fun kind of mindless movie,
43:21
Speaker 1: I think that you do still have the responsibility to
43:24
Speaker 1: treat your characters well. And if you are going to
43:26
Speaker 1: have women in your movie, which you should, which which
43:30
Speaker 1: I mean rolling my eyes, but sometimes it has to
43:35
Speaker 1: have women because what if the proton, what if the
43:38
Speaker 1: male protagonist wants to have heterosat who is he going
43:42
Speaker 1: to have sex with? But right, So, if you're going
43:46
Speaker 1: to make a fun, quirky, offbeat movie, then have your
43:49
Speaker 1: female characters still not be entirely defined by their relationships
43:54
Speaker 1: to men, for example, Or have the people of color
43:57
Speaker 1: in your movie not only be the help of the
44:00
Speaker 1: white characters. So yeah, just a lot of just a
44:04
Speaker 1: lot of missteps in this movie, as you can expect
44:08
Speaker 1: from a mainstream movie. I had one other little note
44:13
Speaker 1: that it was just like but both a missed opportunity
44:16
Speaker 1: writing wise and just like come on, uh, the only
44:19
Speaker 1: writer character in this movie is Margot Tannenbaum, and yet
44:24
Speaker 1: the movie Framing Device is a book written by a man.
44:29
Speaker 1: Why we have a writer character, we have a writical Well,
44:32
Speaker 1: Eli is also a true he is a novelist, and
44:36
Speaker 1: Margot's husband, Raleigh is he is a psychologist neurologist. I think, um,
44:43
Speaker 1: but he has also written books. I want a female narrator, yeah,
44:47
Speaker 1: but also this story would make no sense coming from
44:49
Speaker 1: a female narrator because it makes nice it's female characters
44:52
Speaker 1: a lot of the time. Also, I'm sure the narrator
44:54
Speaker 1: Ali Baldwin has some me two stories. That's oh yeah,
44:57
Speaker 1: I mean we've it's you know, the time, the when
45:00
Speaker 1: it culture has come where we finally need to hear
45:03
Speaker 1: Alc Balbin out here what he's got to say. I
45:06
Speaker 1: think that just speaking to because Wes Anderson is such
45:09
Speaker 1: a common request from our audience, and a lot of
45:13
Speaker 1: tour directors are that because Wes Anderson's work does tend
45:18
Speaker 1: to be in its positiveness and its negative so consistent
45:22
Speaker 1: that we can take a movie like this in sort
45:25
Speaker 1: of view it to an extent as a reflection of
45:28
Speaker 1: the filmmaker's values and interests. So you know, it is
45:32
Speaker 1: a little bit of a reflection on Wes Anderson where
45:35
Speaker 1: he is, you know, the creative driving force behind this.
45:38
Speaker 1: Where it's like this is probably a reflection at this time,
45:41
Speaker 1: at this point in time, how Wes Anderson views women
45:45
Speaker 1: and views non white people as you know, not the
45:49
Speaker 1: primary focus and thought of more in a utility way
45:53
Speaker 1: than in like, here's the character we really want to
45:57
Speaker 1: explore and give time to. It's all about Okay, they're
46:02
Speaker 1: allowed to be there, but only to further the story
46:06
Speaker 1: of the person he's really interested in which is almost
46:09
Speaker 1: always one of his friends. Yeah. Yeah, and also reflective
46:14
Speaker 1: of the way he uses depression and mental health issues
46:19
Speaker 1: for utility. Absolutely. You know, we can judge him according
46:23
Speaker 1: to this movie, but it also is a judgment on
46:25
Speaker 1: his Yes, each of you used a French word to
46:30
Speaker 1: talk about film, and I felt left out, so I
46:32
Speaker 1: wanted to use a French word. I loved it. I
46:34
Speaker 1: don't know. It's very well good, it's beautiful, it's very symmetrical. Gang,
46:42
Speaker 1: We're real smart. Wow. Think about us is where Genius says,
46:46
Speaker 1: does this movie pass the Bechdel test? Yeah? I would
46:51
Speaker 1: say it does there by the skin of its teeth.
46:55
Speaker 1: At there's a few conversations between Ethylene and Margot. There's
47:00
Speaker 1: a scene early on where um Margot is in the
47:03
Speaker 1: bathtub and he's like, Raleigh says, you have been spending
47:08
Speaker 1: a lot of time in the bathtub. Margo is like,
47:10
Speaker 1: I doubt that. Shout out to the movie doubt, doubt,
47:14
Speaker 1: And then they're talking about She's like, I don't think
47:16
Speaker 1: that's very healthy. What if what if the TV falls
47:19
Speaker 1: into the tub And she's like, I tie it to
47:21
Speaker 1: the radiator and she's like, wow, it can't be very
47:23
Speaker 1: good for your eyes. And then she says Chaz came home.
47:27
Speaker 1: So there is a two line exchange that does technically
47:30
Speaker 1: pass within that, but the conversation starts talking about Raleigh
47:34
Speaker 1: and with talking about Chaz and then Ari and Uzy,
47:38
Speaker 1: and the chunk that passes is the only part of
47:40
Speaker 1: that conversation that really has no narrative implications. It's just
47:44
Speaker 1: like that. It's it's a little joke. That's I think
47:48
Speaker 1: that almost every part of this movie that does barely
47:51
Speaker 1: pass the back to test has nothing to do with
47:54
Speaker 1: what is actually happening in this story. Yeah. Um. The
47:57
Speaker 1: scene after that where those two women interact again is
48:00
Speaker 1: when they're talking about Eli Cash sending Ethelene his like
48:05
Speaker 1: clippings and his grades from college. That doesn't pass because
48:07
Speaker 1: they're talking about Eli. And then there's a scene at
48:10
Speaker 1: the end between the two of them again where Margot
48:13
Speaker 1: is chewing on her nicotine and hailer and she's like,
48:15
Speaker 1: what are you tring? And she's like, oh, it's supposed
48:17
Speaker 1: to help me quit smoking. Is it working? Not really?
48:20
Speaker 1: And then a car crashes into the building and it
48:23
Speaker 1: was Eli wedding crashing with Vince Vaughn as he's always
48:27
Speaker 1: doing aleating moment, so that scene I think also technically
48:33
Speaker 1: passes because that's a four line exchange. Also, I didn't
48:36
Speaker 1: realize until you said it that way that one of
48:38
Speaker 1: the only Bectel test passing sceneson has literally ended because
48:41
Speaker 1: a man drives a car into that scene. So poetic, Yeah, beautiful,
48:47
Speaker 1: just a real representation of And but you're right, like
48:51
Speaker 1: all the scenes that do are, all the moments that
48:53
Speaker 1: do pass the Bechtel tests have no bearing on the narrative.
48:57
Speaker 1: They could easily be cut in. The story would not
48:59
Speaker 1: be changed one bit to like, well, maybe that's because
49:01
Speaker 1: we're always trying to figure out ways to modify the
49:04
Speaker 1: test to make it a little more effective for our purposes.
49:07
Speaker 1: And that, I mean that might be a new thing
49:10
Speaker 1: of like, what is the narrative implication? If if there's
49:12
Speaker 1: only exchanges between women and movies that have no bearing
49:17
Speaker 1: on what happens, then maybe if that shouldn't pass, right.
49:20
Speaker 1: I think in a recent episode we were saying something
49:23
Speaker 1: to the effect that we're hoping that the conversation is meaningful.
49:27
Speaker 1: So because oftentimes it's like, hey, server at a restaurant,
49:31
Speaker 1: do you have any pie? And they're like, yes, my
49:35
Speaker 1: name is Marie, and you're just like, well, I guess,
49:37
Speaker 1: and that's not a meaningful conversation. So yeah, I mean,
49:42
Speaker 1: this movie could have easily done better. It did not
49:45
Speaker 1: capitalize on any of the opportunities to pass the Bechdel test. More,
49:50
Speaker 1: I still don't hate it. I mean, I hate myself
49:53
Speaker 1: for that, but also I still know it's okay. I mean,
49:56
Speaker 1: I don't hate I don't I don't hate this movie.
49:58
Speaker 1: I don't think it's especially regret astive. It's not progressive,
50:01
Speaker 1: but it doesn't necessarily set us back any further than
50:05
Speaker 1: we already are. So like, yeah, I mean, which says
50:08
Speaker 1: what I guess. That just means like all right, and
50:15
Speaker 1: it's allowed to continue existence. Which, by the way, if
50:17
Speaker 1: you do want to change the test that this podcast
50:22
Speaker 1: is based on, maybe you don't have to change the
50:25
Speaker 1: name of the podcast, just called the Bechtel Plus and
50:28
Speaker 1: then you can start modifying the test. Let what we
50:32
Speaker 1: do also talk about other tests that come up, the
50:35
Speaker 1: Rito Russo test, the EVA Done tests, um, which I
50:38
Speaker 1: don't think this movie would pass. No, no, no, anyway.
50:43
Speaker 1: So yeah, yes to passing the Bechtel tests, but that
50:46
Speaker 1: does not make it a feminist text. Unfortunately, um, let's
50:51
Speaker 1: write the movie on our nipple scale. We have a
50:53
Speaker 1: scale of zero to five nipples, and we write based
50:55
Speaker 1: on its portrayal of women. I'm going to have to
50:59
Speaker 1: give it like a one and a half, I think,
51:04
Speaker 1: because I mean a little time is spent characterizing Margot,
51:09
Speaker 1: and that she's established as a secretive person. She's a playwright,
51:13
Speaker 1: she likes the arts, she likes photography. I mean, we
51:16
Speaker 1: only see a glimpse of that in a montage that
51:18
Speaker 1: lasts for one second. But we do learn certain things
51:21
Speaker 1: about her character that a lot of movies wouldn't even
51:24
Speaker 1: take the time to establish. But for the most part,
51:28
Speaker 1: her character exists in the narrative to be either the
51:31
Speaker 1: object of men's affections or to basically further characterize the
51:36
Speaker 1: men around her. So she is not actually characterized that
51:41
Speaker 1: well at all, I would argue. But then there's also Ethylene, who,
51:45
Speaker 1: similar to Margot, it is pretty much only defined and
51:48
Speaker 1: characterized by her relationships to the men in her life.
51:51
Speaker 1: So I would say overall, the female characters are disserviced
51:55
Speaker 1: by the filmmakers and the narrative. So it gets one
51:59
Speaker 1: and a half nipples. One to Margot and the half
52:02
Speaker 1: nipple will go to sing sing one nipple more singing
52:09
Speaker 1: hashtag more sings. I'm gonna go on nipple two. And
52:14
Speaker 1: this is uh something we didn't really touch on, but
52:17
Speaker 1: just going on a A lot of people who are
52:20
Speaker 1: fans of Wes Anderson, I think are teenagers, and I
52:24
Speaker 1: think that's for a reason, whichause that he is very
52:27
Speaker 1: visually appealing style that is, perhaps if you have lived
52:31
Speaker 1: a little bit, only appealing to an extent. But the
52:35
Speaker 1: reason I bring that up is because I think Margot
52:37
Speaker 1: Tennenbaumb is kind of a very commonly cited female like
52:42
Speaker 1: role model into in the Wes Anderson's BuzzFeed quizzes about her,
52:46
Speaker 1: we took it disticals all kind Yeah, regretfully, I was
52:50
Speaker 1: a Margot, you were a chass. I was a chass.
52:52
Speaker 1: Ten I'm gonna look at you completely differently. It's because
52:57
Speaker 1: I'm pretty neurotic and extremely concerned about children's safety. You're
53:01
Speaker 1: an amazing father. Yeah so much. You're welcome. I uh suck, no, no, no,
53:08
Speaker 1: I mean, but Margot Tennenbaum is the central female character,
53:12
Speaker 1: and I think she's very often referenced and cited as
53:15
Speaker 1: like an early you know, female avatar for for young
53:19
Speaker 1: female viewers, and the fact that we are really only
53:23
Speaker 1: given a glimpse of what we could be given and
53:25
Speaker 1: she's still largely defined by her relationship to men is
53:28
Speaker 1: disappointing and I missed opportunity to give young women character
53:34
Speaker 1: of a little more substance. So one nipple and uh,
53:39
Speaker 1: I'll give mine a sing sing to Jenny, thank you
53:43
Speaker 1: so much for being here. We've had a great time
53:45
Speaker 1: with you. Is the best deep dives into pop culture.
53:50
Speaker 1: Where can people find you online? At Jenny Yang dot
53:53
Speaker 1: tv and every user name Jenny yngg tv. Yeah, follow Jenny.
53:59
Speaker 1: Check out our stand up She's great. You can follow
54:01
Speaker 1: us the Bechel Cast on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook,
54:05
Speaker 1: all the social media is. Subscribe to our Matreon. It's
54:09
Speaker 1: five dollars a month and you get to bonus episodes
54:12
Speaker 1: and otherwise. Um, we just encourage you to, just like
54:16
Speaker 1: I don't know, be critical of the art you're consuming,
54:19
Speaker 1: you're guying, especially when you really like it. Yeah, bye,
54:24
Speaker 1: love you, Bye bye.