Latest / Age Defiantly with Mark Young / [Ep 31] Is Chemo the Only Way to Beat Cancer? | Dr. Nasha Winters

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[Ep 31] Is Chemo the Only Way to Beat Cancer? | Dr. Nasha Winters · Age Defiantly with Mark Young

0:00
Welcome to Performance Driven Living, the podcast where we question everything.
0:05
We don't tip to around tough topics, we walk right into them, not to provoke, but to
0:11
get closer to what's real.
0:13
You might not agree with everything you hear, and that's okay.
0:17
The show isn't about being right, it's about being real.
0:20
These conversations are meant to stretch your thinking, challenge assumptions, and spark
0:25
something deeper.
0:26
The views shared are those of our guests and may not reflect those of the host or team.
0:32
And while we dive deep into health, performance, and transformation, this is not medical advice.
0:38
Talk to your doctor before making changes to your health or lifestyle.
0:42
Take what lands, leave what doesn't, but whatever you do, don't stop questioning.
0:55
We are on location, and we are at the Metabolic Health Day out in Tucson, Arizona, and I have
1:01
the incredible privilege to introduce you, and the world probably already knows who you
1:06
are, because how could they not, but I get the pleasure of speaking to my dear friend
1:10
and beautiful human being, Dr. Nation Winters, and this whole conference here this week
1:15
is about you.
1:17
It's 100% your energy, your life, your mission brought to life by a lot of other people,
1:23
and it's amazing to watch, and I've got so many things I want to say, but I'm going
1:28
to start because my team always writes these introductions, and they say things that I could
1:32
never possibly be so eloquent to say, so I'm going to read this, and the introduction
1:37
that I've been given here is here at the Metabolic Health Day in Tucson.
1:41
We're joined by Dr. Nation Winters, integrative oncologist, global leader in Metabolic Health,
1:47
and co-founder of the Metabolic Terrain Institute of Health.
1:51
He's the co-author of the widely read The Metabolic Approach to Cancer, and a driving force
1:56
for terrain-based data-guided care that complements standard oncology.
2:01
Through MTIH, Dr. Winters is building a movement that unites clinicians, researchers, and advocates
2:08
to tackle the root causes of chronic disease with actionable tools, not hype.
2:13
Today, we'll dig into what Metabolic Medicine gets right and potentially wrong, how patients
2:20
and practitioners can work together more effectively, and the practical steps you can take
2:23
to improve your Metabolic Terrain starting this week, please welcome to performance driven
2:29
living Dr. Nation Winters.
2:31
Oh my gosh.
2:32
Thanks, guys.
2:33
That was a good one.
2:34
Seriously, right?
2:35
Who is that person?
2:36
Seriously.
2:37
I'm a guest at a podcast, and they describe me like, I want to meet this one.
2:42
When I described you on my podcast, you have led multiple lifetimes in this one short,
2:48
just a few years in, and I think I'm in about 250 in experience.
2:52
It's so beautiful.
2:53
Well, that means we came here to live the ass out of life, that's really what it came
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down to.
2:59
I have often said that when I die, there will be a lot of regressive things I did.
3:03
There will not be regressive things I didn't do.
3:06
That is perfect.
3:07
That is perfect.
3:08
I will do it all.
3:09
That's what you got to do, right?
3:10
Yeah, it's perfect.
3:11
And I want to correct one thing, or I'll add something, because you said this is happening
3:15
because of me.
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It's not about me, because yes, this story started for me in 1991, and this, you know, literal
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pain to purpose started my own journey, which was very much in a vacuum.
3:28
And so what has happened today is because I finally broke out of that vacuum.
3:33
I finally started asking for help in just my life, my personal life, my professional life,
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and then people started just to gravitate.
3:41
And so this would never have gotten up off the ground if there were not curious, you
3:47
know, collaborative and absolutely passionate people to do so.
3:51
So this is like such an expression of 34 years of an idea and a vision in the making.
3:59
And so for me, it's such an honor, more of like, I feel like we're celebrating a movement,
4:05
not an individual.
4:07
And so I appreciate that.
4:08
I appreciate that.
4:09
Yes, that's maybe where the conversation started, but my gosh, it's so much bigger than
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us.
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And it's so much even bigger than what's happening here today because of when you see
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the speakers we have and whatnot, they all have their own movements happening.
4:20
And we're linking arms in such a profound way that it gives me a lot of hope.
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Well, and you know, again, the humility is admirable to say, this isn't about me.
4:31
This is about everybody who's doing this.
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And I agree with that.
4:33
But I also want your story to feel like it is a call to action for people who believe
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that one voice can't matter because in this entire movement of metabolic healing and,
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you know, terrain healing and everything that we can talk about here, the reality is
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is one seed gets planted.
4:53
Yeah.
4:54
And when that one seed gets planted and often undergoes the stress and everything else
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that it takes for a seed to eventually burst forth from the ground, you were that.
5:03
And so while I agree with you, there's a lot of people on stage, there's a lot of people
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having these conversations.
5:08
I want to thank you and tell you thank you for stepping up and being the person who
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was willing to ask, who was willing to step out, who was willing to champion this movement
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that is locking arms with a lot of other people's movements and their followings because you've
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had so much to do with this.
5:23
And I'll say this, this is, you know, me miss out of complete sincerity.
5:26
You and I've had this conversation.
5:32
There is a moment that a person realizes that they have to step on stage and what they
5:40
feel in their heart actually has to come out their mouth.
5:44
And I know that that's been a journey for you too is you want to help people, but you'd
5:48
love to just help people one on one.
5:51
And there's a vulnerability that takes place when you step out and you're like, okay,
5:54
like I'm going to do this one to many.
5:57
And one to many is a much scarier proposition.
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And I think you've amplified that one to one message.
6:04
You know, first of all, I would, if I can tell that story, like I think, I think your
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journey was very internal, which turned into a one to one practice, which turned into
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a one to many practice, if you will, that you were doing that type of training.
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But now you, your voice is now a almost worldwide movement because you're in multiple countries.
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You're, you're speaking on stages all over the place.
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And now you've gone from helping people one on one to literally training people.
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And now you've got, you've gone from this arithmetic to an exponential type voice.
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And I think that that's, that's amazing and I'm so happy that, that you specifically,
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but people like you get that, that magnification.
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But I, I just love that, I love that it's you, but, but nevertheless, I love the vulnerability
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that comes with that because that is it.
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That's a big stage to stand on, it is, especially when you're going very swimming upstream.
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Yeah, yeah, not going to counter cultural.
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Yeah, it is.
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It is.
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First, I appreciate that, that, like, reflection back because, you know, that's that
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place of that dance of, okay, the, the goal is to make this a universal, you know, concept
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to make, to absolutely, absolutely change the narrative.
7:20
And so it's disruptive by design because what we have been doing is clearly not working.
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You know, and that's so much of what this whole conference is about.
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It's like, okay, well, we know what the problem is now.
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What's the solution?
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Yeah.
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And, and I loved it.
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So I, I want to ask you a question because I, I realize you're also involved in multiple
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businesses, and I love that.
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And as I've gotten to know more about your business setup, you are now the face and co-founder
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of an organization called Terrain House, which is, which is roll, I know, right?
7:55
It's exciting, I know, which is not only dealing with training people, but now you're leaning
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into the AI side of old carer, and that's, it's a pleasure to spend a lot of time, right?
8:08
Like, I spend a lot of time in that space, and I'm like, man, the idea that not only are
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you able to speak from a stage, and you're able to offer training courses, which, by the
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way, I've already decided I'm going to go take all your training courses and become one
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of your practices.
8:20
He's drinking the koo-rayed.
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100%.
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100%.
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But, but additionally to that, like, how you're leaning into this AI, and it's like, I just,
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AI does one of two things, and I've said this to, to my team, and that is, AI is going
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to either help you solve problems, or it's going to help you fail faster.
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And, you know, sometimes all you do is magnify the mistakes with it, because if you don't
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know where you're going with it, how do you know if it gave you a right answer?
8:47
Right, right.
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And sometimes we put inputs in that are biased, and it picks up our bias and feeds us answers
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that follow our bias.
8:55
Right.
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We have to be careful with that.
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And, and we do have to be careful with it.
8:58
So, I'm, I'm curious, like, I love that when practitioners who are training on your course,
9:03
it doesn't replace the training.
9:05
Yeah.
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In fact, it helps the practitioner get to the right answer faster.
9:10
Yeah.
9:11
As opposed to, I know a lot of people are out there think figuring that what they can
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do is just, you know, what's the, what's the quote I just saw today, like, oh, I just
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saw a meme today, and it was something along the lines of, like, somewhere your future
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doctor is using AI to pass medical school, you better start taking care of your health
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now.
9:27
Exactly.
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Exactly.
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And I'm like, that's so honestly true.
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That's hilarious.
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Yeah.
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Everybody becomes a lawyer on GPT now.
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Yeah.
9:34
Oh, God.
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You know, and then people are going to prison.
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Yeah.
9:37
Yeah.
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But how have you integrated this?
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Like, talk to me about that.
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Well, I have to say I was very resistant to the idea of it because I'm really against
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protocols, and I'm worried that even this AI approach will perpetuate the protocol
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approach to medicine, which is everyone gets the same treatment, you know, and we're
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like, oh, autoimmunity, you all get this cancer, you all get this, you know, cardiovascular,
10:02
you all get this.
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And yet what we're trying to deconstruct is that it's absolutely personalized, absolutely
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precise, and it is going to have to learn AI is going to have to learn each individual.
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And that's what we're training into this for it to really get to know you or you or
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you.
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And that's what's the exciting thing because at first I was so resistant thinking it
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could create more of just a zombie nation.
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And instead it's allowing us to really like, exponentially, you know, exponentially really
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create precise personalized medicine because we've been giving that a lot of lip service
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for a long time.
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And it's just, it's just that.
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It's a marketing tool.
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Well, it's a thing.
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So one of the things that I find when I'm looking at AI driven into medicine, because I
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use it all that I use it for myself, right?
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It's like, I've got my own bot trained to probably know my health better than anybody.
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But, you know, I put in my own labs, I put on my own work, I do all this, and it's
11:03
like, I literally, I keep a list of all the supplements I take on a daily basis.
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And I go take my labs, and I'm like, here's my labs, here's my list of supplements.
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What am I missing?
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Tell me, tell me, is there a gap?
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Is there an overlap plan?
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What's going on?
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And then I review it every six months or so, like, no, I need to go review this again.
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I need to review this again, like change the protocol, but the protocol has been designed
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to assist.
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Yeah, correct.
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That's different.
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And you get this as much as I do, every single time I run into somebody who understands
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my background in health care, and they're like, what should I be taking, like, I don't
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know.
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We got to gather a lot more information.
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I don't know what you should be taking, because I don't know enough about you.
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Like, I can tell you some things that aren't going to hurt you, and probably help.
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Like, there are some things that'll probably support anybody, but I can't tell you if
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you should be taking boron.
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Right.
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Exactly.
11:57
Well, let me just...
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Right.
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How would I know that?
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Great.
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So really, but I use it for that type of stack as well.
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And then the difference is, is that sometimes I look at it, I'm like, well, I know better
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than that.
12:09
Yeah.
12:10
Yeah.
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You know, that I don't agree with.
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And then I'll go in and ask, why did you save this?
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Right.
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And this is the key right there of when you have a training opportunity, we've got a training
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program environment.
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Yeah.
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When you're training clinicians, allied health professionals, advocates, and even just
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the lay person, you have the opportunity to train them on evidence informed and evidence-based
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approaches that may not be standard, right?
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Because a lot of those things, they call it the 17-year gap for a reason that takes an
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average of 17 years to get from the bench ideas to the bedside application.
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And this is the technology that says, we have a lot...
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We've got enough information to say, this is probably a valid thought approach, you
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know, assessment.
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And then we can scale that because now my clinicians have to spend six to seven hours
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just reviewing people's data by hand, then making sense of it, finding the patterns, then
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making sense of what is the best treatment to match those patterns.
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It's like doing a homeopathic intake.
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And so by the end of that, they're loving it because it's like fascinating to learn
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these people and see these patterns like pop out like a Rorschach chart or something.
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But once they find that, then they have to sit down with the patient for an hour and
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half, two hours, explain their findings, explain that protocol that was individualized.
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And then they still have to then make sense and answer all the questions to that person.
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So you're looking at a 10 to 12-hour per patient on average.
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There is no way to pay someone enough to do that.
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And so people don't lean into this type of medicine unless they're just honestly crazy
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like me and just really passionate to know that we won't change anything without doing
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it this way.
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Well, and most of that boils down to the fact that a practitioner is not going to be compensated
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for 10 to 12 hours of work.
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That's exactly.
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That's exactly.
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So you've got to be sure to pay that.
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You're talking at a minimum of $5,000 exactly.
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Exactly.
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People charge that and there are people who get that, but it doesn't have to be that way.
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We're trying to create this to be accessible and scalable.
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And so that's what AI is doing.
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It is ingesting all of those data points.
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It is making sense.
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It's going through all the massive databases of literature backing the patterns to understand
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and assess.
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And then it's helping make sense of clinical decision making in more of a real time.
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But suddenly it's a reasonable prep for the patient, maybe your typical half hour
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prep.
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And then the time with the patient and then very quick and easy follow up.
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You've now condensed that to actually make it affordable and scalable.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
14:47
Yeah.
14:48
Yeah.
14:49
Yeah.
14:50
Yeah.
14:51
And I love that.
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Like I said, I never want to take the, you know, my mission that I'm using right now,
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the catchphrase that I'm using for my own properties, our relationship first AI
15:00
fueled.
15:01
Like we have to stay on this relationship and that is, you know, even to my team, the
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constant thing that I keep saying is I'm willing to automate an AI anything that we're
15:10
doing.
15:11
Find out what only the humans can do.
15:13
Well, and here's the piece because if a doctor has to spend so much time just going through
15:18
all the data, which is how it is or doing all the paperwork or filling out all the insurance
15:23
claims, there is no time to cultivate a relationship with the patient.
15:27
And so the AI swooping in and doing that heavy lifting of the data aggregation and translation,
15:36
then the real magic gets to happen because that's where the medicine really is in the
15:40
relationship.
15:41
And so that frees up the doctor to actually do what they came into medicine to do.
15:45
Well, and hopefully what I, what I'm hoping to see out of this anyways is that we actually
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see a medical practice that becomes more bedside.
15:52
Absolutely.
15:53
Absolutely.
15:54
Because, you know, I don't want to get too crazy into the energy of those types of relationships.
15:59
But the reality is is that when a doctor believes, we were talking about J.J.
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Virgin.
16:04
Absolutely.
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And one of the conversations that I had with J.J. when she was a guest on, on PDL, one
16:10
of the conversations I had with her was she's like, when her son was in, in a coma hospital,
16:16
she said, if that bubble, she's like, if a, if a, if a nurse, if a doctor, if a, if
16:21
an orderly, walked into the room with negative energy, get out.
16:26
Yeah.
16:27
Yeah.
16:28
Any doubt, any negative energy, any bias, any of their own fear crowd out of the room.
16:32
Yeah.
16:33
She said, if she would talk to a doctor before any procedure was done, she would ask the
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doctor, do you believe that this will be 100% successful?
16:39
And if the doctor didn't say, absolutely 100% success, she said, you're not working on
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my son.
16:45
Yeah.
16:46
I believe that it could fail.
16:49
Yeah.
16:50
Yeah.
16:51
Out.
16:52
Next.
16:53
And especially when we have such a fear-based culture right now, and especially in the world
16:56
I work in, which is cancer, that goes hand in hand, typically with fear.
17:01
And that's the other part I'm trying to dismantle in this, in this, my lifetime, and hopefully
17:06
my, you know, my, my lineage that I leave behind after I'm long gone, is that we're
17:12
changing that conversation that no cancer is not something to fear, it is something to
17:16
understand.
17:17
Yeah.
17:18
And it's something to help you transform.
17:20
I recently, you and I had discussed a friend of mine whose father was diagnosed with multiple
17:24
myeloma and I had put together a workup and so on and thank you so much for your review
17:29
of it.
17:30
I later had a chance to meet with their family and talk with them about why natural solutions
17:35
as opposed to, you know, taking the chemo route that they were talking about.
17:39
Yeah.
17:40
Again, it's not necessarily in.
17:41
And either way.
17:42
Right.
17:43
Sometimes it's in hand, and the conversation with him was, look, here's some of the things
17:47
that are going on with you, and if you do move on to this immunotherapy, which he seems
17:52
to want to do that, then at least let's pay attention to these things because we need
17:57
to be-
17:58
Let's prepare the field.
17:59
Correct.
18:00
Yeah.
18:01
Your kidney function is already suffering.
18:02
Yeah.
18:03
Like putting chemo on top of already suffering kidneys, like, what are the protocols that
18:06
we protocols?
18:07
What are the actions we can take to support your kidney, to support your liver, to
18:11
support the things about you?
18:13
How can we make sure your gut microbiome is ready for this?
18:16
Yeah.
18:17
And really walking him through that terrain, if you will.
18:20
And just having those conversations, and it's nuances that people don't even know, like,
18:24
for instance, like, you know, they walked me through like, what are you taking, and so
18:28
on.
18:29
And she's like, oh, well, we gave up coffee, and I'm like, well, coffee's not bad for you.
18:33
Right, right, right.
18:34
Like, where did you get that story from?
18:35
Yeah, yeah.
18:36
Correct.
18:37
And is that the way for you?
18:38
Yeah.
18:39
I mean, even drinking this, and she, but it's a matcha, which I'm a fan of, a matcha,
18:44
but it's a matcha collagen peptide, like, I'm going to ask you to stop drinking the peptides.
18:49
Yeah.
18:50
Yeah.
18:51
It was growth factor.
18:52
So we have a positive of this.
18:53
Exactly.
18:54
Yeah.
18:55
There's a growth factor in here now.
18:56
So if when you're creating cellular growth, it's growing all the cells, like, we need to pull
19:01
back anything that's doing it, like, you can do it, but, you know, a wife can do it
19:05
because we can't, like, this is just something that we need to align with, and it's, yeah.
19:10
People just don't know this stuff.
19:11
And that will not come out of a chat GPT.
19:13
Correct.
19:14
That's exactly correct.
19:16
Yeah.
19:17
And part of it is how many people actually put those type of lifestyle things into it?
19:20
Yeah.
19:21
Because you just kind of take it for granted.
19:22
Yeah.
19:23
Correct.
19:24
And I mean, it was, it was the pushing through everything they're doing, and it was silly
19:28
stuff right down to like, I just want you to go out and sit on the porch for a half
19:31
hour every morning.
19:32
Right.
19:33
Right.
19:34
Yeah.
19:35
And this is what comes to the why of even this event is people would always say to me,
19:41
I was healthy until I got cancer.
19:44
And I, it's just every single time I feel like I get like a tick, you know, because it's
19:48
like, yeah, it's like, that's not, that's so incongruent.
19:51
It's so, you know, incoherent.
19:54
It's like, how did, how did you believe, like, what allowed you to believe that you were
19:59
truly healthy?
20:01
And what allowed you to be shocked when you got this diagnosis, like, where is the
20:06
disconnect here?
20:07
Because this doesn't come on overnight.
20:10
And so it's like, this has been insidiously happening.
20:14
What, what, where have you been putting the sticker on the check engine light of your,
20:18
yeah, of your vehicle for all these years that allowed all of these breakdowns to be
20:24
quietly happening until it was big enough and loud enough to capture your attention?
20:27
And one of the things I love about what you talk about in your movement and in your
20:31
training is this idea that cancer didn't show up one day and it doesn't just disappear
20:37
one day.
20:38
Yeah.
20:39
That, you know, my conversation with him was, look, I want to, I want to talk to you real
20:43
quick, because if I can frame this best and like, if I found a mouse in the kitchen,
20:48
I wouldn't poison all the food.
20:50
Yeah.
20:51
And that's great.
20:52
You know, and they were like, okay, and I'm like, I would create an environment where
20:56
the mouse didn't want to be anymore.
20:58
Exactly.
20:59
And that's all we're talking about here, like disease is all around you.
21:03
You have disease all through your body.
21:05
You have cancer cells.
21:06
You have any number of things going on.
21:08
But the reality is, is that all we need to do is create an environment where our body's
21:11
able to fight it because our body's been fighting it since before we were born.
21:15
Well, and coming all the way back to what you mentioned about JJ and her experience,
21:19
the problem is, is that you say that and it's incredibly intuitive to somebody like
21:24
me and actually almost every single patient I've ever talked to when you talk about that
21:27
mouse and the kitchen analogy.
21:29
But then they get all the fire at Evan and they go in to their medical team who has a completely
21:36
opposite belief system, who sees this as an enemy that must be killed at all costs that
21:42
we're going to napalm the field.
21:44
And you know, yeah, you'll have some side effects, but we'll get you through it and it'll
21:47
be done.
21:48
And then you can ring the bell and go back to your life.
21:51
And it's, it talk about the belief systems that then there and even more of a pickle because
21:56
they're making with somebody like you or me or the people I train and they feel this
22:01
moment of hope and then they walk into this place that immediately switches them to fear.
22:05
So it is a process and a journey to help them really root into their own truth, into their
22:10
own knowing.
22:12
And it's, it's, it's a, it's a psychological, it's just a psychological as it is biochemical,
22:18
as it is physical, as it is energetic.
22:20
And so it's such an interesting world that it takes a certain person to be willing to
22:27
take in that information, but not let it drive the train.
22:32
Like you have to take it in, be informed and then make, you know, decisions based on
22:37
information, not be in reactivity mode because reactivity mode will perpetuate whatever
22:43
chronic condition, including cancer is going on because it keeps you in that state of sympathetic
22:47
overdrive, which means no treatment, no matter how good they are, will land.
22:52
I agree with all of that.
22:53
That there's, there's a psychological, energetic issue that takes place there and call that
22:58
vibration, call it whatever we want.
23:01
Like the reality is, is that getting in that sympathetic overdrive, you're shutting down
23:05
your immune system.
23:06
You're shutting down everything.
23:07
You're, you're making the, the very system that's there to fight the intruder ends up
23:13
getting put on pause because you're, you're stuck in this, in this sympathetic nervous
23:17
system.
23:18
And I agree with you on that.
23:19
Nisha, I know, I know we're, you've got a limited amount of time today and I appreciate
23:23
you taking the time to be here, but what would be, like, I want to know your mission, like
23:28
your, your next stage of life, if I can say that without sounding the same, no, not
23:35
that you're advanced, but what is, what is your message, what is, what is your next big
23:43
thing?
23:44
And I know we talked about AI, we talked about training and, yeah, well, it's been, you
23:47
know, so 30 plus years ago, I had this, literally, I would call it a vision because it was in
23:52
a wake, a woken state, but it kept coming very clearly to the point I just start scribing,
23:57
you know, what was coming through.
23:59
And I saw this place, I saw this facility, I saw this community around it.
24:05
I saw all the best of what standard of care has to offer with all the best of what, what
24:09
sort of ancient traditional medicines had to offer and, you know, budding new information
24:17
and applications.
24:18
And I started thinking that this place existed already and spent the last three decades
24:22
traveling all over the world looking for it, literally all over the world looking for
24:26
it.
24:27
And I would find places that were like, oh, cool, there's, there's some of the elements
24:31
at this place and there's a couple of the elements over here and there's a few of the
24:34
elements over here, but no place did I see it all together.
24:38
And even all these decades later, with everything we know and the growth and movement in integrative
24:43
oncology and even just in regenerative health in general, I still haven't found that place.
24:49
So if you find a place that offers like really innovative cancer treatments from standard
24:53
in an alternative care, they're usually housed in very toxic environments on campuses that
25:00
are just drenched in glyphosate with crappy lighting and horrific air and absolute crap
25:06
food sources, it's like, how do you fix, like you're living the building, the living environment
25:12
is just as critical to the healing as the relational environment, as the actual prescription
25:17
or protocol that is individualized.
25:20
And so then I'd find a place that was gorgeous, like this huge healing environment and then
25:24
they're serving like cake and sugary coffee every day on the afternoon.
25:28
That's pretty much all the clinics in Europe, like they will not let go of their carbohydrates.
25:32
It's like, just hold on and such a bummer and then my beautiful colleagues down in Mexico,
25:38
they're just telling everybody still that a vegan diet is the way to go.
25:42
We have come so far from that information that first of all, maybe there is someone who
25:46
would do well with a vegan diet, maybe there is someone who has a little more flexibility
25:50
in having cake and coffee in the afternoon, but we don't assume that we have the ability
25:56
to know precisely today what someone needs in any given moment based on the information
26:02
we have today.
26:03
That doesn't exist anywhere right now.
26:05
And so again, my nature is, well, if it's not here already, then apparently I'm supposed
26:10
to build it.
26:11
I got a text message this morning.
26:12
It was a meme about an inspo meme from David Olred and it said, make it exist, make it
26:20
good later.
26:21
Wow.
26:22
I know that.
26:23
Wow.
26:24
Yeah.
26:25
And it was the, if it doesn't exist, don't wait to make it perfect, just make it exist.
26:31
And this I think is what's happening in the doctors have trained and the movement we've
26:35
created is they're making it exist.
26:38
They're now trying to make it exist in like their small little nooks, like little satellite
26:42
in the seeds are being planted.
26:44
But this big vision, just an hour south of us on what had been for 60 years, let me
26:51
back up.
26:52
So this dream I was having, I was all over the world.
26:54
And crazy, four years ago, here at this location, this has given me chills right now.
27:03
I was supposed to come and sign on a piece of property in Green Valley to start to build
27:06
this process.
27:08
And it got paused as we met a farmer who will be here speaking this week, Yaduang.
27:14
And he said, don't do this.
27:16
There's someone who's got the similar vision to you.
27:18
He just didn't have a hospital on the property.
27:20
He had a community college and you need to meet.
27:24
And Jerry Dixon met us here at Lowe's, Vintana for lunch on a Saturday, on a Friday at
27:30
an environmental health conference that was being hosted here.
27:33
And we played hooky all day Saturday to drive an hour south to go check out this land.
27:37
And the second I stepped on that land, I knew just stepped into the police.
27:49
And Jerry donated the land to us for this project.
27:55
And it's part of, instead of me having to build, because I was like going, I'm going to
27:58
build a residential, mixed-use residential community, I'm going to build the commercial, I'm
28:02
going to build the farm to table restaurant, I'm going to build a convention center and
28:06
the hospital.
28:07
Suddenly I meet someone who has all the skills, all the resources, all the knowledge and
28:10
all the passion and drive to do all of that, which allows me just to focus on building
28:15
the hospital.
28:17
And so I, like all of these pieces aligned, we are a non-profit.
28:22
He donates the land to us.
28:24
We have this amazing one of the architect is going to be here speaking in one of the panels
28:28
who is a cancer thriver herself, who when she, she didn't tell us this till after she drew
28:33
our drawings, because she said doing the renderings for our campus was very cathartic in healing
28:39
for her, because she knew that this is what she needed when she went through her cancer
28:42
process.
28:43
The emotion, which tells me it's very real.
28:46
And she's a bio-philic designer, a sacred geometry designer, but also just very functional,
28:51
like we're in the desert of Southwest, like how do you make it fit the environment and
28:56
be part of it and evolve with it, not go against it.
29:00
So all of these pieces, this is a 1200 acre piece of property that for 60 years was a
29:06
golf course and a golf resort.
29:10
In 2018, they shut her down and they said no more, 96 million gallons of water a year saved.
29:17
The five and a half miles of riverfront property of Santa Cruz Riverfront property that's
29:22
a seasonal river, they're building swales now and recharging the aquifer and the water
29:27
is coming back and staying.
29:29
The orchards that are being planted all over it, the cows that are grazing on it and finishing
29:33
on organic oregano fields.
29:35
The entire campus, all those greenways, have been remediated.
29:40
The soil has been remediated.
29:41
There is no more chemical residues on the earth.
29:45
We have been healing the soil all these years and in the interim, I've been trying to
29:51
get people trained to actually work at that hospital and then to build the data platform
29:57
that can scale this and make it doable at this hospital because it's a research institute
30:02
as well.
30:03
And then bringing in all of the best resources, the letters of intent I have from the people
30:09
who want to bring in their hypothermia, the people who want to bring their hyperbarics,
30:12
like medical grade, big, huge, like a 16 person hyperbaric chamber will be on this campus.
30:17
We'll have our own non-contrast dye, non-radiation imaging.
30:21
We'll have the ability to do the minor surgery.
30:23
We'll have the ability to do metronomic chemotherapy based on that patient's tissue and blood
30:27
biopsies.
30:28
We'll have the ability to stack it with the other integrative therapies.
30:32
This is a 250,000 square foot, 150 bed, you know, residential cancer hospital and research
30:39
institute that truly, it's not that you've got like Sloan Kettering says they have their
30:44
integrative medicine department.
30:45
It's like in a broom closet on the back of the campus that is out of pocket and no
30:50
one even knows it exists.
30:52
And it's like putting lipstick on a pig is my grandma would say of what they actually
30:57
do there.
30:58
Yes, Raky is great, but do we have to spend millions on research to do that?
31:02
No, we're bringing things like off-label drugs and compounded nutrients that are ligand
31:08
with these drugs to deliver to patients, very specifically curated and created for those
31:13
patients.
31:14
So this hospital, the energy of it has been held there for three decades and it's getting
31:20
closer and closer.
31:21
We're actually taking a small group of people on Sunday to walk the land and do some ceremony
31:26
on the land on Sunday.
31:28
Really?
31:29
Oh, how exciting.
31:30
Yeah.
31:31
Yeah.
31:32
So when you say what's coming, that is like the pilot of what we expect because we already
31:37
have discussions with people in India, the UK, South Africa and the Middle East who want
31:45
to take this model and place them there.
31:48
So it becomes the big seed and then it pollinates globally.
31:54
And this is the work of nation winters who has managed to change the world in time to
31:59
come and lives being restored and saved and thriving past cancer, not just surviving.
32:07
And I absolutely love that.
32:09
Nation, like this vision is, it's huge, it's absolutely enormous and I love everything
32:16
about what you're talking about here and 34 years in the making, just your career, people
32:23
who are coming here, hundreds of people coming here who are trainees that you have taught
32:27
through either personal interactions or through online courses.
32:31
Like I tell you, I don't say this in any kind of platitude, so blessed to be able to work
32:36
with you on some of the stuff and I know my team loves everything about what we're doing
32:41
with you guys in Cindy and Lynn and everybody that we get to work with.
32:47
Thank you.
32:48
I've got so many other questions, but I just thank you, like you do in work that I think
32:53
a lot of other people aren't and I think you're your swimming upstream defined standard
32:58
of care.
33:00
One of the things that I love, love about your training courses is this idea that we look
33:07
at normal ranges and normal ranges are comparing people to the unhealthy population that they belong
33:16
to you.
33:17
I work on sinking.
33:18
Not functional ranges.
33:19
What are the functional, optimal ranges of performance?
33:23
And anyone who's listened to my podcast for a knows that I always defy this whole idea
33:27
of at your age.
33:28
Yeah.
33:29
No, why is blood pressure different at my age than any other age?
33:32
No, blood pressure is blood pressure.
33:33
Yes.
33:34
Why is cellular health different at my age as opposed to any other age?
33:38
Like no.
33:39
And my dad said something that you'll love.
33:43
He was talking about putting his own blood markers into chat GPT and getting me, you
33:47
know, whatever.
33:49
And he and I do a training course.
33:51
So Kroger Grocery's story is familiar with Kroger.
33:54
They've got a whole program called Food Is Medicine.
33:56
Oh, amazing.
33:57
And I actually trained their executive team on a monthly basis.
34:01
We do trainings with them, which is really fun.
34:03
And you'd be surprised that people just don't know, right?
34:07
And one of the things we did last month was actually training on how to use AI to help
34:12
understand your current health protocols and whatnot.
34:16
And it was funny because he did something else like, wow, I never did that before, but
34:18
that was really clever.
34:19
Well done.
34:20
And he's 68.
34:21
And I think I've mentioned to you actually has detectable prostate cancer, but treated
34:25
it using completely homeopathic means, nearly undetectable at this point, and yet he still
34:32
floods himself with BPC and everything else and like, oh, it's anyways.
34:37
But he made a comment about, he'd put all of his blood work, all of his panels in and
34:41
he said, you know, I'm a 68 year old white male who lives in the Midwest because you've got
34:46
to provide some of that environmental context to get really good information.
34:51
And it pushed back and told them all of these things were normal, normal, normal, normal.
34:55
And he said, now do that exact same review as if you thought I was 30.
35:00
Oh, nicely done, dad.
35:02
Yeah.
35:03
Wow.
35:04
And it gave, well, this is high and this is high and this is suboptimal and all this other
35:09
kind of feedback.
35:10
Talk about belief systems being proposed.
35:12
Correct.
35:13
And his exact response was, I don't want testosterone production like a 68 year old.
35:18
I want testosterone production like a 30 year old.
35:22
And I don't want to have PSA levels as a 68 year old, I want them here.
35:28
Now let's build a protocol.
35:30
Wow.
35:31
What a difference.
35:32
For how I can be 30 and how I can get back to those optimal ranges because standard
35:37
of care will tell you everything's normal and you're good.
35:41
And then you get people with this belief, I was healthy until cancer.
35:45
No, you weren't.
35:47
You were being compared to an unhealthy standard.
35:50
Exactly.
35:51
And that, that mindset shift though, it's like, yes, that's exactly right.
35:56
I'm 50 and I'm like, I can't write my head around that first of all.
35:59
Yeah.
36:00
But backing that up, it's like, I measure everything against 35, if that's my, that's
36:05
so good.
36:06
Like I want to be whatever health of a 35 year old would have been and hold to that standard.
36:13
And I think if we can help overcome that belief, if you're swimming upstream, standard
36:18
care is broken, there's so many things that are broken, this message that we've talked
36:24
about in so many different places with the systems broken, just the system is broken.
36:29
And I think everybody agrees to that.
36:32
That's the weird part.
36:33
That piece is so true.
36:34
So I spent 20 years in my career trying to fix the broken system, thinking that, well,
36:38
maybe I'll fix it and someone else will build one I'm wanting to build.
36:41
I finally gave that up over a decade ago and said, just screw it, we're going to build
36:45
our own.
36:46
And so that's when the realization of I've traveled everywhere to look for it doesn't
36:49
exist.
36:50
I'm trying to fix a system that is so resistant to having these types of conversations.
36:55
And nothing I'm saying is esoteric or we who I'm married to the most crazy scientific
36:59
biochemist in the world and our world's completely aligned and that what we're finding is true
37:05
so people don't know are out there.
37:07
And so we're building an entire new system, we're building an entire new environment like
37:11
working and living environment for it.
37:14
And we're building new beliefs, belief systems.
37:18
I love it.
37:19
Yeah.
37:20
Well, I believe in what you're doing.
37:21
And I am so excited to be part of that.
37:23
Thank you for joining us today, Nesha, like it has been always my pleasure.
37:28
But again, I will say like we will have notes in the bottom of the show giving you links
37:34
to everything Nesha related, follow Nesha on social media, but also MTIH to ring the
37:40
bell.
37:41
Like there's so many different organizations that she's involved in that I want you to
37:44
follow all of these things because there's so much to learn.
37:47
We have a system that is broken and I don't think anybody would disagree with me when
37:51
I say that.
37:53
But we also have people like you that are helping rebuild that mindset, rebuild that
37:58
psychology that can overcome this belief that it's just a cut and poison world.
38:04
Right.
38:05
That's not the way that the world has to be.
38:06
That's not the way the human body was created.
38:09
Our bodies have innate intelligence to know how to heal themselves and and our goal.
38:16
Your goal is to to let that intelligence thrive because when the intelligence thrives the
38:21
body follows.
38:22
Absolutely.
38:23
And I think that's amazing.
38:24
Nesha, again, couldn't be happier to have you here.
38:27
Thank you so much.
38:28
Love you.
38:29
And just what an amazing future.
38:30
I can't wait.
38:31
Thank you for joining us on Performance Driven Living and we'll see you on the next