Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Trump Staves Off Lame Duck Status In Indiana Primaries + How a Free Alt-Weekly Became Alabama's Best Investigative Paper

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Full Episode - Trump Staves Off Lame Duck Status In Indiana Primaries + How a Free Alt-Weekly Became Alabama's Best Investigative Paper · The Chuck ToddCast

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  Speaker 1: dot com use the code toodcast. Hello, They're happy Wednesday,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Chuck Toodcast. We
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: are coming to you here right after the conclusion of
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: the Indiana and Ohio primary nights. The big news Donald
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Trump's gambit works. He has a look a very successful
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: night just about all. But so it looks like one,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: maybe two of the incumbents he targeted may survive too.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: At most, we'll see one is extraordinarily tight. As I'm
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: coming on the air telling you this. But the but,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: the but the big deal is that we know he
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: got at least six, and he knocked off six of
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: the eight that they were attempting to target. Yes, technically
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: one of the winners. There's somebody he didn't technically endorse,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: but he did jump on that bandwagon when somebody let
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: him know that that person was going to win, because
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: we know that when Donald Trump gets to win and
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: he he doesn't celebrate quietly. Right, But let's be realistic here,
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  Speaker 1: I was looking at the this is the first test
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  Speaker 1: to find out. One is the duck in the Oval
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: office limping right. His poll numbers are terrible with swing voters.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: His poll numbers are terrible with independence. He is at
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  Speaker 1: his lows pretty much across the board everywhere. So it
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: was sort of like the next shoe to drop would
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: have been, okay, has he lost his juice inside the
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Republican Party? And the month of May here provides two
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  Speaker 1: giant tests for his grip on the Republican Party. Test
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  Speaker 1: one he just passed with flying colors. Now let's put
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: a few sort of to be shores here in the paragraph. Combined,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: in these eight GOP Senate primaries combined, there's not one
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand total voters that participated, So we are talking
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: super small primaries. Most of these total primary electorates were
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: twelve thousand votes all. They spent thirteen and a half
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: million dollars, okay, thirteen and a half million dollars to
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: persuade a total of one hundred thousand people who voted,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: and they didn't win over all, one hundred thousand people
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: with that thirteen million dollars. But they want enough and
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  Speaker 1: so what does this mean, Well, it doesn't mean anything
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  Speaker 1: for redistricting in Indiana this cycle. But the issue what
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: mattered here was Trump following through in a threat. Right,
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  Speaker 1: he is known as Taco Taco Trump whenever he deals
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: with anybody around the world. Right he makes threats to Iran,
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  Speaker 1: he backs off. I mean, I think he's backed on
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: and off on the straight up Ormuz multiple times since
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I started speaking. We're you know, we're we're we're we're
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: going to escort these ships through the straight No, we're
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: not going to do it. So nobody takes his global
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: threats seriously. He'll threaten tariffs, you know, one hundred percent tariffs,
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  Speaker 1: and he'll do it for a day and he'll back off.
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  Speaker 1: So his threats internationally ring hollow around the world. Whether
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: you're in Iran, whether you're in the UK, whether you're
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: in Germany. Even this, you know what he's threatening here
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: with pulling troops from Germany. Look, the five thousand troops
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: that are going away were just sent over there by
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Biden when they added more troops. So you know it's
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: there is as many troops there today as there will
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: be at the end of this calendar year as there
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: were when he was in his first term. But inside
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party, he couldn't afford to come across as
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: taco as Taco Trump. He made a threat to these
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: state senators, and he had to follow through with it,
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  Speaker 1: and he won. And that's and and it is. It
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  Speaker 1: is not a small deal. It is a big deal
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  Speaker 1: because losing would have been catastrophic. This is one of
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  Speaker 1: those where he had more to lose than he had
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  Speaker 1: to gain. Now, what does he gained from this? The
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: big thing he gains is is potential creating new urgency
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  Speaker 1: among some of these Southern states that have been on
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  Speaker 1: the fence. Right. You know, we know the governor of
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Alabama said she wasn't going to call a special session.
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  Speaker 1: Donald Trump calls the governor's chief of staff. Suddenly minds
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  Speaker 1: get changed. They're doing a special session. There seems to
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  Speaker 1: be a little bit of squ squeamishness about doing this
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  Speaker 1: in South Carolina. After the Indiana results, I'm going to
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  Speaker 1: guess that those hesitations now become a little less hesitant
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  Speaker 1: in a South Carolina. So the importance of these victories
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  Speaker 1: for Trump is that he now has Hey, do you
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: want me to do to you what I just did
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: to these because he just ended their careers and you know,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Crystalizin on the live lex and stream and some of
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: you may he's talking about it. We are trying to
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  Speaker 1: come up, you know, really the only person that's truly
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  Speaker 1: defied him and not just survived but thrived his Brian
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  Speaker 1: camp the governor of Georgia. Most everybody else. When Trump
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  Speaker 1: targets you in a primary and you lose to sort
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  Speaker 1: of Trump the Trump side, it's game, set and match
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  Speaker 1: for the political career. You know, there's a there's an
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  Speaker 1: exception here or there, but for the most part, being
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  Speaker 1: on the wrong side of this, uh, it ends. It
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  Speaker 1: ends your current career in the Republican Party. Maybe you
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  Speaker 1: buide your time and maybe there's time in the future.
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  Speaker 1: Maybe some of them end up switch at parties running
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  Speaker 1: his independence. Who knows what they what they end up doing.
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  Speaker 1: But the fact is he still had enough juice here
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  Speaker 1: to win. Now what does this mean? The other big
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: test this month is the Thomas Massey primary, and he
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: has put Massy front and center and that has been
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: a big deal to him. He's not alone in being
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: irritated by Massy. Inside the Republican Party, mass See has
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: been a constant thorn in the side of the Republican establishment,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: whether it was Mitch McConnell running the establishment, whether it
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: was Kevin McCarthy, or whether it's Donald Trump. So Trump
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  Speaker 1: has a lot of allies here inside the Republican Party
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  Speaker 1: trying to get Thomas Massey. It's close primary Kentucky. On
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  Speaker 1: one hand, that should benefit Trump, meaning it's you know,
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  Speaker 1: self described Republicans are more likely to make MAGA. At
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  Speaker 1: the same time, Massey knows his electorate really well, and
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  Speaker 1: he's won these primaries multiple times, and he's been challenged
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: before and he's not just survived and he's thrived a
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: Massy victory. I don't think. Here's the question I have
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: is the is a Massy beating Trump. It's a bigger deal.
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  Speaker 1: Had Trump sort of come up a bit short in
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  Speaker 1: these Indiana primaries, but the ability of him to swamp
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  Speaker 1: in Indiana and essentially, you know, most of these races
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  Speaker 1: weren't that close. Massey has survived before. And it's a quirk.
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  Speaker 1: You know, the Republican Party in Kentucky is just different. Right,
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  Speaker 1: Here's the state of Kentucky that has all sorts of
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  Speaker 1: flavors of people that don't like Trump, but they are
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: all Republicans. Right, Mitch McConnell, Rand, Paul Thomas Massey. Right,
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  Speaker 1: the three of them don't actually together agree on much.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: They may agree on Hemp and even that, I think
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: they disagree with some of the details on what parts
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: of him, what can be legalized, on what can't. But
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: the point is is that there is there is a
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  Speaker 1: different type of Republican that can win in Kentucky that
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  Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a saluter of the party. And
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: if Trump doesn't win that prime, he doesn't knock off
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  Speaker 1: a Massy. Well, you know, he the first populace to
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  Speaker 1: fail at knocking off an incumbent Republican in the state
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  Speaker 1: of Kentucky. So the biggest thing that Donald Trump has
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  Speaker 1: postponed is the perception that he's now a lame duck
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  Speaker 1: with in his own party. Because here's the other thing
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  Speaker 1: he avoided by having the big night that he had
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  Speaker 1: in Indiana. There's plenty of Republicans I've talked to a
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  Speaker 1: few of them who are just waiting for the permission
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  Speaker 1: slip to just start to be able to publicly start
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  Speaker 1: to make get distance from Trump. And this is where
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  Speaker 1: this could be sort of a great victory for Trump,
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  Speaker 1: but bad news if you're a Republican on the ballot
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  Speaker 1: in twenty six. There's a lot of Republicans who have
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: been looking for an opportunity to show some independence from Trump.
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  Speaker 1: There were some of these Republicans quietly hoping that the
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  Speaker 1: voters of Indiana would sort of deliver them the proof
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  Speaker 1: that it is okay to jump into that type of messaging,
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  Speaker 1: that the water is okay, that it is safe to
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: do this. And the results in Indiana say, you may
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: want to wait here, you may want to wait a
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: few minutes, you may want to wait to see. Now
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: doesn't look like things are getting any better anytime soon
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: with Iran. And there's no doubt you looked at the
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: polling that we discussed in the Monday podcast, this week.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: It is bad for Trump. Ye, he is at a
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: low only in the days following January sixth, as he
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: ever pulled lower than he's pulling at the moment. But
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: he's hanging tough with Republicans. Right, he has still got
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: eighty percent approval among Republicans. It's on the low end
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: of what is sort of a governable rating to have
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: right the minute that starts to dip into the seventies
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: and then Trump has Trump then has to ask himself
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: he's got some actual base Republicans starting to question his billy,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: but he hasn't. It hasn't dropped below eighty yet. And
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  Speaker 1: so look, when you're a second term president that can't
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: seek reelection, you know the the uh, the lame duck
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  Speaker 1: gods are coming for you at any moment, and it's
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: all about staving it us off as long as you
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: possibly can. Right, Why is he so desperate to see
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: if he can save at least one House of Congress,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Although we can question whether he is really as desperate
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: as he should be, because if he says only loses
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: one instead of two, he can at least claim some
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: sort of strength going into the last two years of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: his presidency. He loses both the House and the Senate,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and his presidency as we know it is over. Yes,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: he's still got his executive authority, and yes there's all
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: sorts of other ways that he can influence things, but
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: ultimately he wants to push off being a lame duck.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: I have said it's possible we may look back and
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: say February twenty eighth was really the beginning of his presidency,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: turning becoming a lame duck president, starting the Iran War.
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: It went south. There was no recovering from that, and
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: that's still possible that we may go back and say
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: that's when it started. But here's what we can't say
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: that he's lost, that he's lost his fastball with the
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Republican Party, because what Indiana has shown us that he's
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: not lost his fastball with the Republican Party. He may
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: it may come, but this was a big deal and
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: it was decisive. Rights It's not like just over the top.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: It's not like just barely winning these races. It was
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: decisive and again not a small deal, because any other
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: outcome would have been politically catastrophic for all those reasons.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I was online, you'd have had a race the number.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: It would have been the permission slip for Republicans to
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: start getting their distance from Trump. And again that's where
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: may make this a double edged sword. What's good for
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Trump may not be good for Republicans on the ballot
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: come this November because they now don't yet have that
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: permission slip to separate. We might as well talk a
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: little bit about Ohio. There really weren't any big primaries
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: in Ohio, but Ohio is setting up to be to
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: give us flashbacks to win. It was one of the
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: most important swing states in America. Both the governor's race
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: and the Senate race look like nail biders. And there's
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: a couple of reasons for it. Right, You've got the
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: Democrats basically found the best candidate they could possibly have
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: in the Senate race, Shared Brown, and it's an appointed
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: center John Houston, the one time lieutenant governor who frankly
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: whose ambition was to run for governor and he'd rather
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: be running for governor. But Donald Trump, I mean, this
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: is where look, it is not good to cross Donald Trump.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: His ability to pick primary winners can end political careers
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: or change their trajectories. Donald Trump decided to endorse Ramaswami
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: when Elon Musk wanted Vivek out of DOGE and they
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: were created the soft landing. Ramaswami decided he run a
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: run for governor of Ohio and Trump did him in
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: the favor by endorsing him immediately, and it cleared the
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: primary field. The outgoing Attorney General Dave Yos was likely
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: going to run for governor, so was the sitting Lieutenant
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: governor at the time, John Houston, and Donald Trump basically
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: cleared he didn't. Basically he cleared the primary field. Yes,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: I think Ramaswamy technically had a primary challenger on Tuesday Night,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: but nobody of significance. But in doing so, it's like
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: when Donald Trump endorsed Jade Vance in the Senate primary
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: in twenty two. Trump has endorsed the weakest possible Republican
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: you could have running for the Senate. If John Houston
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: we're running to essentially as lieutenant governor to replace Mike
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: DeWine and Amy acting where the Democratic nominee. I think
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: it would be a competitive race, but Houston would be
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: the favorite. And right now the betting markets have all
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: flipped and have made act In the favorite. And it's
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: because of Ramaswami. He's done a couple of things, and
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: you know I've mentioned one of them before and you're
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: gonna hear more about this, but you know he is.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: He is a polarizing figure, just like Jade Vance. And
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: so it is going to make the race more competitive
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: than you arguably should be. Throw in all the money
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: that's going to go into this Senate race, and Ohio
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: is going to be These are two coin flip statewide races.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: This feels like two thousand and six. Two thousand and
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: six Ohio is when Shared Brown knocked off then incumbent
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Senator Mike DeWine. By the way, Mike Dewines held a
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of offices in Ohio, but the office he
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: cared about the most is the one he's retiring from now,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: and that is governor. I think if he weren't term limited,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: the Wine would be running for a third term. He
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: loves being governor. Like I said, with two thousand and six,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: you had Shared Brown, who was sitting member of Congress,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: challenging Mike DeWine, the incumbent senator. He won, and the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: governor's race was an open governor's race. But the Republican
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: Party was dealing with all sorts of baggage. There was
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: a statewide a bunch of state wide scandals that were
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: sort of nip it at their heels. The outgoing governor,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: his popularity was waning, but he was term limited Bob
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Taft and Republicans nominated somebody that was probably a bit
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: too conservative to win the state and Ken Blackwell. And
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: it's possible that Ramaswami is another Ken Blackwell and that
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: he's just doesn't quite fit the Ohio Republican way. I
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: will confess that I thought Amy Acting passed as sort
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: of the COVID the the COVID health expert for the
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: state of Ohio was going to be some political baggage, right.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: That COVID in general was something that voters didn't want
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: to hear about and want to talk about. But it's
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: turned out to be those that do remember her from
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: COVID it's a net positive. I mean, she got high marks.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I remember I got to know her a little bit.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: She is an incredibly competent health professional. Hardstop did not
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: think of her as a politician sort of in that definition,
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: and I wonder if other Ohio voters sort of see
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: her as sort of more of a non politician than politician,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: which in this political environment might be a net positive.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: And ironically Aramaswami, who in twenty twenty three when he
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: started running for president, was sort of Hey, I'm not
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: the politician trying, you know, I'm a new guy. Now
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: even though he's only sort of been around three years,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: he suddenly doesn't feel new. He was part of Doge,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: he was part of the sort of the whole Trump team,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: and so he's part of the incumbent party, right, so
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: he brings with him actually some national baggage that I
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: don't think many Republicans would want right now. So Ohio
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and Iowa, they were key states in the battleground throughout
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the throughout the first arguably the first two decades of
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: this century, and Donald Trump sort of turned them from
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: swing states to red states. Well, in the last midterm
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: of the Donald Trump era, is it possible both Iowa
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: and Ohio decide to make their way back into the
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: battleground anyway? Just something to think about. This episode of
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: The Chuck Toddcast is brought to you by Soul. If
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  Speaker 1: am a customer. I'm gonna shift gears here a little bit.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I'm going to share with you and experience I had
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: a few days ago. It's Chathamhouse rules, which means I
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: can describe what I did, what I participated in, but
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you who else was there and the
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: specifics of what this was. This was a simulation, but
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: it actually gets it something very concerning when we're thinking
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: about how are we going to get out of this
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: polarized mess that we're in as a country, and well,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: let me just tell you, let me just tell you
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: about it. Sometimes you participate in something and it just lingers.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: And this has been lingering in my head a little
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: bit because this whole experience revealed an assumption that I
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: think a lot more people hold than we're comfortable admitting
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: out loud, and it has a lot to do with Congress.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: So I participated in one of these political crisis simulations
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that's run by a group called the Atoll Society. And
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: if you're not familiar with them, what the Atall Society
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: is is essentially a collection of academics, technologists, former government officials,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: democracy scholars. It's people who build stress tests for political systems. Right,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: you've heard people say, hey, wargaming, you know, if China
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: invades Taiwan, you know, and if you go back, you
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: can go on YouTube and search meet the press reports
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Taiwan wargame and you can see what I mean by that.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: It's a simulation of sort of a real time sort
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: of you know, somebody's playing Team China, somebody's playing Team
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: USA and the invasion happens. This is in some ways
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: a similar thing, but for a political a political where
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: where it's not an actual hot war, it's a it's
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: a political fight. So it's a tabletop exercise meets a
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: wargame meets AI modeling. Because artificial intelligence played a big
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: role in this. The whole point of this simulation is
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: not prediction. The point is to pressure test what happens
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: if institutions fail. What happens if norms collapse? What happens
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: if political actors stop behaving small d democratically while still
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: technically operating inside democracy? And the remiss of this simulation
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: is pretty blunt. Let's assume January sixth was not an outlier,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: that it instead was a test run. It's a warning shot. Now.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Ten years ago, the premise of what happened in January
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: sixth would have sounded hysterical, but it actually happened, So honestly,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: this all now just sounds like something people in both
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: parties quietly now have to game out, and that's what
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: this was. So let me tell you about the simulation.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: It divides participants into three teams. One team is the institutionalists.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: These are the defenders of the current constitutional order, courts, elections, procedures, norms.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: Basically the people trying to preserve the republic as it
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: currently exists. Doesn't mean they're Democrats only, it's just people
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: that sort of are in that sort of belief system
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: of the constitutional republic. Then there are the nationalists. Their
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: goal is not necessarily dictated readership, and I think that
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: distinction matters here, but they do not want a fundamentally different.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: They want a fundamentally different governing compact with the voters.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: They want a much stronger executive, a much more centralized
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: form of power, a system where elections matter but institutions
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: matter less. And then there was the third faction, the capitalists,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: basically the money people. And this is where the whole
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: thing got fascinating because the capitalists, they're the least ideological
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: of anybody in the exercise. They represented markets, investors, business leaders,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: economic actors. And when you go through the simulation, you
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: quickly realize something. The entire simulation actually revolves around the capitalists.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Who side are they going to be on, Who can
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: win them over or who can capture them? Two? Do
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: you persuade them or do you capture them? It isn't
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: the voters you're worrying about. It isn't the courts. It's
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: certainly not Congress. It's capital right. Whoever secures the confidence
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: of the economic class effectively secures legitimacy. And once you
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: see that dynamic play out in a simulation, it becomes
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: hard not to think about history itself, because this is
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: the lesson of a lot of unstable democracies. Political legitimacy
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: often follows economic confidence. If the people with money believe
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: the system can protect stability, contracts, assets, supply chains, they
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: stay in. If they lose confidence, everything accelerates very quickly,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: and so the simulation becomes deeply transactional. Everybody is trying
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: to reassure the capitalists or give them so much of
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: something that they have a lot more to lose if
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: your side loses. The institutionalists might say, stay with democracy,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: the system will stabilize. The nationalists might say, we can
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: manipulate things to help you grow your business faster. And
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: the capitalists are constantly asking, well, who can actually deliver
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: both growth and stability. They're not looking for virtue, they're
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: not looking for morality. They're looking for enrichment and stability.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they'll take enrichment alone if it
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: comes with instability and they fear their money could be taken.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: But if you can guarantee enough stability in connection with
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: the enrichment, they'll stick by some uncomfortable people. And honestly,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: that part of the simulation felt very realistic. But here's
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: the part that really stayed with me. In this simulation,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Congress itself barely existed, not formally, Congress was technically there,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: and the midterms were a part of the simulation. The
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: institutionalists swept the midterms, and it was pointless. It didn't stop,
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: in this case the nationalists from accomplishing what they wanted
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: to do, what they wanted to accomplish, winning the presidency
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: in twenty eight and keeping centralizing more and more power.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: But it was functionally that Congress was just simply irrelevant.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: The simulation simply assumed that Congress was too slow, too divided,
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: too weak, too structurally incapable of responding to a fast
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: moving constitutional crisis. That assumption wasn't even debated during the game,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: it was embedded in the architecture of the game itself.
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: The presumption was Congress was ffeckless and a pointless part
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: of this exercise. And so there was a part of
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: me that wondered, are we sure this? If every serious
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: democratic stress test now begins with the assumption that Congress
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: cannot meaningfully constrain executive power, then maybe we've already identified
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: the core problem in American government. Because think about this,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: the founders designed Congress to be the dominant branch, not
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: an equal branch. Yes, they're equal branches, but one came first,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: and one was supposed to be the most important. One
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: was supposed to be the one closest to the people.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: One was supposed to be that was actually the most
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: representative of the people. One was supposed to be the
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: one that was capable of forcing consensus. And now even
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: these sophisticated democracy simulations effectively treat Congress as background scenery.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: The Presidency acts, the courts react, Capital decides, and Congress watches. This,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: my friends, is why this republic is not healthy. We
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: have a broken Congress. Even the computer simulation models know this.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: And it was another thing that bothered me about this.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: The simulation often rewarded behavior that we would normally criticize
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: in real life transactional politics, pressure campaigns, norms, violations, escalation tactics. Meanwhile,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the players who simply trusted the simpsons would hold usually
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: lost or were seen as naive. Perhaps that's realistic, Maybe
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: that's the uncomfortable truth these exercises are trying to surface,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: because at some point you have to ask, are we
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: modeling democratic collapse or are we psychologically training elites to
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: expect it. That's a different thing. So I walked away
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: from this exercise with an even stronger belief in something
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I've talked about lately. America does not simply have a
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: polarization problem. We have a Congress problem. We have a
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: structural problem within Congress. It's not just how Congress does
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: its work, it's the structure itself that's broken. We've built
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: a political culture where the legislature is now viewed by
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: both the public and increasingly by experts, as too dysfunctional
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: to even govern during crisis. And once that assumption takes hold,
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: power naturally flows elsewhere to presidents, to the courts, to governors.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: You know, in these simulations, the governors had a lot
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: more sway to corporations, to billionaires, to media ecosystems. Even
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: in all of these instances, the weakest institution the entire
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: time in the simulation Congress, and our founders designed Congress
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: to be the most important of these institutions. And that's
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: the irony. Everybody says that they're worried about authoritarianism, but
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: very few people spend time talking about the vacuum that
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: makes authoritarianism possible in our system. Weak legislatures create strong executives,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: and there's a fine line between a strong, small d
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: democratic executive and an authoritarian figure. Historically, that pattern repeats
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: itself over and over and over again. And that's probably
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: the most unsettling part of this entire simulation. It wasn't
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the scenario that we dealt with itself. It's how many
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: participants seem to accept the premise that the irrelevance of
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Congress is actually normal. It wasn't tragic, it wasn't alarming,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: it was just inevitable. And once this democracy starts treating
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: democratic weakness as inevitable, that's potentially when the real danger begins.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, I'm I'm glad I did this.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: If you ever get an opportunity to participate in one
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: of these, do it because I think the exercise itself
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: is important because I think in the Donald Trump era,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: as a friend of mine likes to say, the thing
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: with Trump is where that miss we miss about Trump
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: sometimes as failure of imagination. And I don't think anybody
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: saw January sixth coming until you know, sometime in twenty eighteen,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, you started to see people start to talk
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: about it. And of course people but not in twenty
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty sixteen. It seemed totally far fetched, right,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: But the bigger problem we have in our politics this
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: is not you know, we're going to sit here and
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: say it's it's Donald Trump problem. Donald Trump, as many
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: people have said, is simply a system, a symptom. He
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: is a creation of a broken that sort of filled
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: a vacuum that it was created by a broken system.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: And this broken system is Congress. I spend a big
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: chunk of my column this week on new Sphere and
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Substack focused on this, that Congress is the broken branch.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: We had Sarah Scaran with her book about the Supreme
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Court where she titled her book the Last Branch Standing,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: and that implies that the other two branches are not standing.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I don't.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: The executive branch has never been stronger, so I think
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: when she meant by last branch standing, the last branch
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: that seems to have some ability to to give credibility,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: some ability to have credibilit with enough of the public.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: But the real crisis we have in our democracy is
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: broken Congress. And what's frustrating is how few everybody wants
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: to fix everything around it. We're not trying to tackle
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Congress itself, right, the institution, you know, it is too
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: leadership driven. When Congress is leadership driven, it's partisan driven.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: When Congress is led by the committee chairs and the
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: ranking members, they actually care about policy and issues. That
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: is how Congress worked in the seventies and eighties and
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: even a little bit in the nineties, but particularly after
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: nine to eleven, Congress essentially washed its hands of more
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: and more of everything, and the amounts of deference that
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Congress handed to the executive branch created the ability to
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: create this stronger executive that has allowed somebody who wants
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: to weaponize the strength of the executive to do things
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: that suddenly don't feel small d democratic anymore. But you know,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to jump on my other hobby horse. We
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: are about to go. We are about to make Congress
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: even less relevant. We're about to make Congress even more
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: leadership driven, which means more partisan driven, more politically driven,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: and less issue driven with these gerrymandering wars. I mean,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: here's the other thing to take away from Tuesday Night's primary.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Every state that can remap before the twenty eight general
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: election is going to do it. Soliza and I set
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: the over under at eight and a half states, and
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: you would take the over I'll go to it now.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Between now and April of twenty twenty eight, I think
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: the following will likely happen. Georgia will remap South Carolina
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: will remap, Maryland will remap New Jersey, will remap New York,
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: will remap Ohio probably one more time. I think Texas
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: goes and tries to take another bite at the apple.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: Would they realize how poorly they did the first remap.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: I think California goes again. If they get a Democratic governor,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: they go and get even more aggressive, and they go again.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Oregon will do it. I assume Washington State will do it.
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't rule out Minnesota. In the South, we know
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Alabama's going to do it, Louisiana's going to do it,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Mississippi's going to do it. Georgia is going to do it.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: After the election, you know, some of these states may
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: do it before. We know Tennessee so I know, actually
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: I guess I should we should set that over under
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: to over ten and if you get some look Minnesota,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: if they get the trifecta, and they might, if the
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: wind is blowing in the in team Blues direction, you
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: could see Minnesota doing it. I think if there's a
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Republican governor of Kansas. I think you throw Kansas into
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: the mix so we could have this situation where we
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: have these maximalist maps in every state where it was
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: possible to create it. Ask yourself, are we going to
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: have individual members of Congress or does this start to
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: look like the electoral college where it's just individual widgets. Oh,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: the state of Tennessee is supposed to have nine members
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: of Congress. Okay, well, these nine widgets will and in
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: the minute the widget behaves like an individual, one of
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: two things will happen. They'll either get primary or they'll
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: get redrawn. That I mean it would. What the hell
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: does this legislature become is it will no longer be
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: a serious legislative branch. It will be filled with nothing
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: but partisanship because if you stray, you're gonna lose your seat.
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: It's not what founders intended. At some point, the public's
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: gonna break from this, But as we always know, the
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: breaking point is always a little bit further down the
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: road than maybe some of us wish it were. I
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: can't make it clear enough. I think there's all sorts
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: of things we need to do to bring to make
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Congress great again. The number one thing we need to
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: do is to right size Congress. Congress is right now
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: as small in some ways as it's ever been, because
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: it's the least representative of the country as it's ever been,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: and it's about to get even more or less representative.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: It is too big. It does not represent the diversity
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: of the country, and it has to be expanded. My
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: fear is that we are now in such a such
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: a battle for power that when one side gets it,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: the last thing they're going to do is to do
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: anything that might dilute it. So I wouldn't hold my
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: breath expecting that if Democrats somehow win Congress that they're
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: going to pass a law that somehow prevents gerrymandering. It
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: ain't going to happen, But maybe they sober up and
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: realize that Congress needs to be expanded. It is I
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: really believe this, and I know maybe more and more
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: people are starting to see the virtue in uncapping the House.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: But if you want to bring small d democracy back
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: to Congress, if you want to bring diversity back to Congress,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: if you want to bring diversity of thought back to Congress,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: if you want to bring localized political views truly represented
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: and the floors of Congress. You're going to have to
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: expand it. And you wouldn't be doing something that is
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: like packing the courts or something like that. You would
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: be doing something that James Madison advocated. So if you
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: consider yourself a Madisonian Conservative, if you consider yourself a constitutionalist,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: then expanding the House as a no brainer. But we
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: have to do something because the biggest problem we have
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: in our in our weak democracy, is the reason our
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: democracy feels weak at the moment and vulnerable is because
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Congress doesn't work and Congress is the broken branch. That's
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: that's the emergency. I know, it doesn't feel like one.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: I know, you know, there's it's sort of like, you know,
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: there's there's there's there's there's some sort of glory in
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: wanting to be able to find the righteous person to
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: become prejudict president. Fixing Congress, you know, feels like cleaning
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: your gutters. But you know what, you have to clean
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: your gutters. We have to fix Congress, all right. Coming
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: up my conversation with the founders of the land yapp
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Daily UH from Mobile, Alabama. What's interesting about their their
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: local news operation is that the land yapp Daily got
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: its start as an alternative weekly. So this is one
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: of the different I told you. I've had all sorts
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: of different kinds of of local news business plans that
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: I've been wanting to share with people, because hey, we
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: got to fix local news. That's another thing, right, We
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: got to get localize our politics better, and we got
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: to localize our news better. And I'm going to always
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try to do my best to continue
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: this day on those hobby horses. Ashley Trice and Rob
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Holbert are the founders. It was a terrific conversation, so
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: I hope you tune in. This episode of the Chuck
• 43:16
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  Speaker 1: have also used the code, the toodcast code. If you
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  Speaker 1: use the promo code podcast at checkout, you get thirty
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• 44:25
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• 44:27
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• 44:31
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  Speaker 1: sponsor I absolutely embrace, so use that code. So just
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: because local News Day has come and gone doesn't mean
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: I'm done wanting to feature different local news entrepreneurs as
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: we essentially try to solve this problem of improving the
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: nation's information ecosystem. Many of you know my philosophy. We
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: got to repair local before we'll ever repair trust in
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: the national. My next the guests I have today, this
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: is a little more personal for me. Many of you
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: know I spend a lot of time in Pensacola and
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: essentially the Pensacola media market. As I've learned over my
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: twenty years of being an aggressive visitor, I guess I'm
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: not a native. My wife is the native. Is that
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Mobile and Pennsylvania are one media market, so that this
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: joining me today are the founders of the lan yapp
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: Daily based in Mobile but basically covering the Alabama golf coast.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: That is, those of us that live in the just
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: on the other side of the Florida Bama line. You
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: know what happens in the Alabama golf Coast matters to
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: the Florida Golf Coast too. So Ashley Trice and Rob
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Hulbert are joining me. Welcome to the podcast.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having us, Chuck. We're excited to be here,
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: glad to be here.
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: So, you know, I'm always curious how this got. Uh,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: you know, let's give me the origin story. How how
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: did you come to be I know that Advance Media
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: and Alabama dot Com. Al dot com has been a
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: was sort of the primary you know, the old mobile
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: press register and things like that paint a picture of
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: the landscape and mobile and what got you started in
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: your origin story?
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: Well, so I moved back from Austin, Texas, and I
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: really while I lived in Austin, I really enjoyed the
• 46:57
  Speaker 4: Austin Chronicle, their alternative paper, and I'm from this area.
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: And so I moved back home and Robin I had
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: mutual friends who was actually a journalism professor of mine
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: at one time, and we started talking. I was like,
• 47:12
  Speaker 4: I can't believe this was back in two thousand and two,
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: that my bill doesn't have an alternative paper in a
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: market that size. You know, we were one of the
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: largest markets without an all weekly. And Rob and I
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: started talking and we raised the.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: Astronomical sum of five thousand.
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: Dollars to start a really sad looking twenty page newspaper
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: that I'm embarrassed to look at to this day.
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: But we got it going with a five thousand circulation.
• 47:45
  Speaker 4: You know, we thought we would have you know, hundreds
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: of advertisers by in six months, and it probably is.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: We're still waiting for that to happen.
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: But we kept it going somehow, and we were about
• 47:57
  Speaker 4: twenty five years. We'll celebrate twenty five years next year.
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: But you mentioned, you know, the Press Register Advanced Media.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: They you know, when.
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: They decided we were bi weekly at first, and when
• 48:10
  Speaker 4: they decided to.
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: They were going to be a digital first publication.
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: They went to three times a week first, and then
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: now they've dropped to only digital and that really you know,
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: and they became a statewide focused paper instead of Gulf Coast, and.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: So they combined there, they basically combined the Birmingham and
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: mobile operations, all.
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: Of them together.
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: So it really gave us the opportunity to step up
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: hyper local coverage.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: We were more mark and entertainment at first.
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: Now we are really heavy on local news, investigative recording,
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: and you know, so that really opened the door for us,
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: and it's really helped. I mean, you know, I would
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: say help us. I guess it's not the right word,
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: but it gave us opportunity.
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: So yeah, so here.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: We are, give me the give me the revenue stream models.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know everybody works on a comedy of
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: advertising membership. Are you a nonprofit or a for profit?
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I ought to probably start for that.
• 49:06
  Speaker 4: We're for profit. We sort of have a hybrid model.
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: The paper started off as a free paper, as most
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: all papers are. What we have done is our website.
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: We've transformed that into sort of the daily paper. So
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: if you want access to that.
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: Is behind a paywall, so okay, I'll have you.
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: Can still if you want the readers digest can you know,
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: can readers digest version of the paper, you can still
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: pick it up for free. If you want daily you know,
• 49:33
  Speaker 4: seven eight non stories a day that.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: We're doing, you've got to pay for the paywall. So
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: and it's been great. I mean, we.
• 49:41
  Speaker 4: We print is still our biggest revenue stream, but we
• 49:44
  Speaker 4: can survive without the digital income either.
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: At this point, it's interesting that you say prints the
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: biggest revenue stream because I've learned this as I've been doing.
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I've spent about the last year or so trying to
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: you know, figure out you know what you know is this,
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: is it scalable? What's something that could be done that
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: could help sort of because you know a lot of
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: these startups have hit a you hit a ceiling, right
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: and the next phase of expansion, you know, it would
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: if you could create a network effect, then then everybody
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: could sort of break through to the next level. And
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: just trying to figure out what would work and what doesn't.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: And I've run into quite a few entrepreneurs who now
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: who make money on print now, but waited to do
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: it until they knew that wasn't going to cost them money,
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: right like they waited to do the you know, they
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: in some ways print once a week and that does well.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: They don't try to push it, you know, anymore unless
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: they have the add dollars to support it. How would
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: how would you describe and how often do you still
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: print just one weekly or doprint more often than that.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're doing just once a week. Still, you know
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: it is it's still as she said, still it's the
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: biggest part of our revenue. But the daily, the paper
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: is daily at this point, and you know, we're sixty
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: seventy stories a week online would probably as far as
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: news stories, we're probably putting seven or eight of those
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: in the papers. So it's huge difference in what people
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: can read online versus what they're reading in the print version.
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: But there is no appetite I will tell you for
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: us to become a daily printed product ever, right, Yeah,
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: that will not happen.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean there's not the demand for it, correct, And.
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: It's just the expense, is right. I mean, it's it's crazy.
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, after payroll, it's our biggest expense and you
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: know it. And finding a printer is even getting more
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: and more difficult. I mean, there are two printers in
• 51:48
  Speaker 4: the entire Southeast that can do a publication.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Like in ourselves kidding.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: So that's a big issue. I mean, I think that's
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: a huge issue for small newspapers, is right. Printers. I
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: mean I've often said that I think that the printers
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: will be the biggest recent newspapers go away versus the internet.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Is printers fail. There's just not very many around and
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: we have very few options. You know, from here we're
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: printing Baton Rouge right now, we have the next option
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: is outside Atlanta.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: So my word, yeah, that's just yeah, you know, so
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: having to deal with that on.
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: A daily with a daily publication, there's no way.
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let me go to something. Do you still consider
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: your in this day and age of independent media? Does
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: alts mean anything anymore?
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: Well not to us, I mean, like we're still members
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: of the Association of Alternative News Media, but we always
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: feel like we're like the step children of it at
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: this point. But I mean, especially since we are, I
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: think everyone considers us the paper of record here in Mobile.
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: Now I don't.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: I don't you're now the Mobile paper. And because the
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Press Register really is more of a state.
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: Wide paper, right exactly, so you know, I mean, and
• 53:06
  Speaker 4: it was really important for us. I mean, one of
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: our driving philosophies is not to take a you know,
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: a political lean to one side or the other. We
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: want to be the paper for everyone, not just one
• 53:18
  Speaker 4: side of the aisle. I mean, and we're in Alabama.
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, it would certainly probably be advantageous for us
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: to be conservative, but we we thought we would. We
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: don't want to lose readership, so it's very important.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: I mean, of course, we have opinion pieces and stuff.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: Like that.
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: But as far as the new coverage, we try.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: To well because I mean, look, let's be honest. You
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: hear the words Alt weekly and there's an automatic assumption
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: that it's super lefty, not just liberal right, super lefty.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: No, I mean they are, Yeah.
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: They are. And it's I mean, we're always a sort
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: of strange animal when we go to the conventions, but
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, it is, you know, I think the
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: big thing for us always, I mean when we wrote
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: up our Statement of principles to begin with, you know,
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: just to sit down and say, like a big thing
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: for us is to make a newspaper that people are
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: dying to read, because then everybody's going to have because
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: you got to read it.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Like the you know, the county's biggest yam on
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: the front page either were not paper either.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think we were. I think we were
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: the state's most aggressive investigative newspaper without doubt.
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: I mean you did.
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: So we have been venturing into the Florida market a
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: little because our next governor is actually a Florida resident instead.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Of one of my favorite stories I've seen that ad,
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: so I we have you know, I'm probably given away
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: too much but you know, we we spend a lot
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: of time on Penscula Beach and they have this little
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: cable access channel about sort of you know the area
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: if you will. It's probably more geared towards I'm still
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: struggling with this calling it the thirty A district. Now,
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: I know that that's got to become branded and like,
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, right, the Hamptons of the South rank.
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure that the reality shows are all
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: checking in on that. And I remember when Coach Tupperville
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: would talk about how great it was to live in
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: North House. Yeah, I mean, those hats were right there.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: It was just little tourist dads. It might have been
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: for Navarre Beach actually that he was doing it.
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: He is closer to between the bar and seaside.
• 55:23
  Speaker 4: But yeah, our investigative reporter, though, has spent i mean
• 55:26
  Speaker 4: hours going through all of his expenses, and you know,
• 55:29
  Speaker 4: I mean it's pretty clear.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, if you really follow the letter of the law,
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: there ain't seven years there. And he kind of knows it,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: doesn't he it's pretty daugh.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: He can't, he won't, he won't address it. So it
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: seems like a simple thing to me go away yeah.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: Is it done? I mean, if they've already allowed him
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: to be on the ballot, right he is his name.
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: Only only mechanism at this point is the court system.
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: And I don't think that I do anything unless his competitor,
• 55:56
  Speaker 4: Doug Jones also and the Democratic Party also files something along.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: He's got a.
• 56:01
  Speaker 4: Editor a Republican candidate that has filed something at this point,
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: but they haven't really moved on it.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, I think it's a done deal
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: as far as you know actual any sort of legal remedy.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: But you know, is it done in terms of voters,
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. You know, I don't
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: think they love that.
• 56:21
  Speaker 4: I mean everyone just assumed. I mean, do I think
• 56:24
  Speaker 4: he will be the next governor?
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, But I will tell you this, I look at
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: one of those right. In fact, I just.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: People.
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: I always say this about governor's races, and it's true
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: in every state, no matter how red or blue it is,
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: governor's races have more voters who take it more personally
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: rather than ideologically. Like it's just there's a reason to
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: get a Republican governor of Massachusetts at a fairly reasonable frequency.
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: There's a reason to get a Republican governor of Maryland.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: There's a reason to get a democratic governor of Kansas,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: you know, and you get so a place like Mississippi,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: right there is it is. You don't see it in
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: the center races. You don't see it in the federal races.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: That's a lot people usually were the voters wear their
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: jersey colors in federal races. But governor's races it can
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: be different. So I'm and.
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: You want your governor to actually live in the state.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there is that, I I you know, and Doug
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: Jones is no shrinking violet. I mean, if I expect
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: that race to be under five points at a minimum,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: I think we you know, we've had a pretty good
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: history lately of whoever the anointed one is South loses
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: and that's quite a bit and so you know, we'll see,
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: we'll see. I think it's gonna be a lot tighter
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: than people would suspect.
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: Oh, I think so too. I mean, you know, there's
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: also just governor's races in general. When you've had one
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: party more than a decade, there is just fatigue, you know,
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: there is there's a little bit of fatigue, and then
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: you throw in the national wins and the there you know,
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: in the idea of there may be needs to be
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: a check right, a check on on super majority power
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: and things like.
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: That, coming off a very inactive governor at this point,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: and so we'll see what happens.
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: You know. That's a that's a that's a very generous.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: I'm being generous today.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: A very generous description of the governor. You know, she's
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: she's an enigma to me. I mean, she doesn't She's
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: been pretty low key the entire time she's been there.
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: I think that would be also very generous.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: I think that was her appeal though, because we had
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: come off.
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: You know, a couple of scandalous things, as we call love.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, gives us plenty to write about. So you know, we're.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: I will say this, I'm going to miss that k
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Ivy pistol ad.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: You know. Yes, I think Tommy can probably match her
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: in colloquialisms. We'll see, you know, he's got plenty of
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: his sleeves.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: It's interesting to me that it's the Auburn coaches that
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: I'll want to run for office and not the Alabama Yeah,
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I assume Burstborough will run at
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: some point. I mean, yeah, I want to go back
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: to how you're so when so you start as an
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: all weekly, the Mobile Press Register starts to sort of
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: shift its focus, uh, and you start to add reporters.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Was it gradual? And and when do you feel like,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: you know, local government understood, oh, these guys are going
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: to cover what we do and the Mobile Press Register
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: isn't anymore. Was it just sort of one of those
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden it happened or was it a
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: gradual shift?
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think it was. We started really up
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: in our toe into more investigative reporting and doing story
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: I think people realized even when we were a bi weekly,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: that we were doing stories that the Press Register wasn't doing.
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: I think really where we probably got a lot of
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: people's attention was in a previous mayor's race that we
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: really did a lot of reporting about some expenditure issues
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: and going on into the city. And I think it
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: had a big part of that mayor being replaced.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: And establishing a little credibility.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that's really where And then you know,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: once they once the Press Register said they were going
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: to go three days a week, we just realized we've
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: got to go weekly to be uh really fill in
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: the gaps.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: Do you still feel like you compete against them?
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: No, not at all.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: They don't do anything here interesting sphere.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 3: I think that's.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Honestly, don't even read it. It's rare that we even
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're nice guys, but I just don't. It's
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: it's rare that we It's very rare.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: But everything they're doing is really stated.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: They're really Birmingham Center, very Birmingham Center. They spend most
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: of the time there, very little down here. It's very
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: rare that.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: They break that's sort of surprising to me. Isn't the
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: fastest growing part of the state the Gulf Coast?
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: Yes?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and which is right next store, you know, is
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 4: the fastest.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: We can probably spend several houray dissecting their whole plan
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: ail dot COM's plan.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: And is it still new house or did they get advanced? Yeah,
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: it's interesting, you know, it does. I think one of
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: the most innovative UH local news sites going is an
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: advanced media site in Massachusetts, mass Line. They've been incredible
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: and and and they been expansive, and they've been though
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: also a statewide focus, I think, But but I think, you.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 4: Know, and it might work in other states, I mean Mobile,
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 4: I mean, and I know every city likes.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: To think of themselves as the special.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Sure there is sort of a yeah, but but in
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: the South in general, where it's a little more parochial, right.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think, I mean, we consider ourselves more
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 4: closely related to New Orleans than we do Montgomery or Birmingham,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: you know.
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think it is along the.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Right, I mean Mobile and Pensacola. Like I you know,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: one of the things I've learned over the years, I
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: worked at NBC, and the Pensacola NBC affiliate is in Mobile,
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: you know, And so it was you know where you
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: have one of these where Petsicol actually only has one
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: affiliate that's technically in Pensacola. I think what both CBS
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: at CBS, Fox and NBC are all amobile, right.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's a we have a lot
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: more in common with the coast. Along the coast, I mean,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: really feel more like a similar state. If you go
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: New Orleans down to know more to I.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: Mean, you probably could go start at the thirty A
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: and go all the way to New Orleans.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: When they start talking about Montgomery and Birmingham things. No
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: one cares down here, so you know it's I mean,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 4: they care, but you know, not as much as there's.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: A big political divide in the state. And it really
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: it does feel like the mobile is often left out,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: and I feel like that's kind of the way it
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: is this in media coverage from ail dot com. It
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: feels very much like I'm not to feed on them.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: I mean they are, they are, They're just they've sort
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: of said, sort of done this area. I mean, they
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: rolled up the newspaper.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: They've really they built a giant building, a huge building,
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 4: and then just shuddered it right main corridor.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: So one of the last big presses in the United
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: States for the mobile press registered, I mean it was.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: And then they just sold it for parts.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: Yep, they scrapped the thing and just they don't have
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: really very much. It's not a big priority to them.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: So one of my thesis and one of my beliefs
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: is that the best way to sort of grow local
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: news is through you youth sports and local sports and
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: high school sports. Tell me about how you guys cover that.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Is it an audience builder or not?
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: And no, I mean you know it.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 4: I mean we have a full sports section and we
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 4: focus I mean, we have prep sports are definitely the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: main focus, but we also have Alabama and Auburn football,
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: which is what everyone really really focused. Also have South
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: Alabama football, which has just become the farm team for
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: everyone else but the but yeah, I mean I think
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: when you have coverage of you know, playoff games and
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 4: you know a star we you know, we had Brian
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 4: Williams come out of it to get Alabama, I think
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: I feel like you get more attention Otherwise if it's
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 4: just you know, little Johnny having the fastest time at
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 4: the cross country made, that doesn't really grow it as
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 4: much as you know, the bigger you know stories.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think I think from the standpoint,
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: you know, the big issue for us is always trying
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 2: to get more subscriptions, because that's really lifeblood.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: Where and what do you think grows subscriptions? What have
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: you seen what works?
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: I mean it's like it's something scandals happening in the
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: rich part of town. Yes, that will okay, subscription.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 1: It's a little both little gossipy, right, just get that
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: to happen every.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: Day with being great shape.
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, scandals for sure.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: And stories animal stories attacking. Yes, it's always I mean.
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 4: And if no one else is doing it, obviously, if
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 4: we're having to compete with the TV stations for a story,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, I mean, it has to be
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 4: something that only that we're the only.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: Ones doing it, you know, and which we have a.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: Lot of this So well, I was just going to say,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: you know, one of the I'm not one hundred percent
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: familiar with, uh, the ownership status of the affiliates and mobile,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: But with the next tr Techno merger that's coming, you're
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: going to see a gutting of local. We're going to
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: see another sort of consolidation gutting right in my hometown
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: in Miami. We already have the duopoly is in effect, Clara,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: And so there's a which which affiliates are they in?
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 3: The NBC and ABC affiliates are clear And.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't okay, I thought the NBC was Sinclaire. I
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: didn't realize that that we are, which is I guess
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: technically Pensacola, right, yes, yeah, so and they have they
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: done a merged newsroom.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: Well, they've cut their newsroom down to almost nothing. The
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: weather person.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I bring this up because I think it's
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: an opportunity because you're going to see and you might
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: even find, you know, you might even find people that
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: worked at those stations that might be great assets for
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: you guys.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think so, because we really see ourselves becoming
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 4: more of a full multimedia not just.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: You have to. I mean, I you know, even if
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: you didn't want to, there's no choice platforms demanded. I don't.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm mean, I'll be honest, I don't always
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: love that this podcast is video and audio. I just
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: love the audio part. I'm an audio listener, but we
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: couldn't grow without the video. Course.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we're finding doing more of that. It is helpful.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: You know. The big issue is when we see what
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 2: we've seen with subscription growth, it was going up, up,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: up plateau. Right, we're plateau and kind of staying there.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: The turn, of course is always.
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 2: In the Yeah, and so, I mean, one of the
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: things for us that is kind of a unique problem
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: is that we do give the paper away, and when
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: we do pulling and surveying, it's where are number one
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: on competition? You know, you ask people why don't you subscribe?
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 2: We will get it for free, And.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 4: The second most popular answer, though, is I'm never going
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 4: to pay for news because we have trained people for
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 4: the last thirty plus years, not that they should never
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 4: have to pay for.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: News, although they always did pay for news. Put a
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: quarter and I used to put a quarter in the machine.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 2: You know it is. But those are the people that
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: still subscribe. When we look at our age group of subscribers,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: they are the people who used to put a quarter
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: in a machine, the people who can years.
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: So obviously getting readers under thirty, I mean, if you
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: don't do it digitally, you're just not going to do it.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 4: I mean we're you know, we're having to do the TikTok.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: You know, they.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: Turn into readers who are forty, who have houses and
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 2: all those things.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Now I accept the premise that eventually people, I joke,
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: people will age into the demo. He's just I used
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: to reassure my bosses at it, you know, meet the press.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: I say, you know, look, there are there is a sense.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: When I was in my twenties, I curated my own news.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: Then you have kids, you have ball games you have
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: to go to on weekends and all the extracurricular Suddenly
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: I don't have time to curate my own news. I
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: need somebody else, sendbody else's health.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's the really, I mean, the big thing,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: you know, the big part we're trying to like everybody
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: is trying to figure out, how do you get these
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: people to give you thirty cents.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: A day to remain and also you know, while also
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 4: you know, we're constantly having to evolve with the technology,
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 4: and of course AI is everyone has that. I actually
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 4: asked chat GPT a couple of weeks ago. I was like,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: you know, I find you a really useful tool. I'm
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: not scared of you, but are you going to, uh
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: what are you going to do to my business? And
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: it said, well, I'm not going to ruin it, but
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 4: I probably will erode it.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: And I was like, you know, it's interesting on that front.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: I I you know, I'm one of those if if
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: you if you have a business that can get cannibalized,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: then you better do the cannibalizing, right, you know, if
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: somebody if it's that vulnerable. But there's some things with
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: AI that AI is never going to be able to replace,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: and that's live and in person. Right, what's the event
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 1: situation look like? And do you guys is that becoming
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: Is that a big.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Do you.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: Know, what do you what kind of events do you
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: do when you go to the event space and are
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: they money makers?
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: Well, well, one of our biggest money makers of the
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 4: year is our Reader's Choice Awards. That's a huge and
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: that's still all the world, you know, that's still the
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 4: best of in every all paper is still their biggest
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: money maker.
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: And that's like whether it's doctors, that's it's about foreigners, burgers, right,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: all that stuff.
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: Right. If you come to mobile, you will see signs
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: everywhere for Matthew Awards Awards, and then they're just like
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: it is. Yeah, it's ubiquitous. People love it. They've got
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: their banners hanging everywhere.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we're right in the middle of it
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: right now.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: I mean it's it gets insane and pretty cut, right,
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 4: but people trying to get other people disqualified for not
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 4: being board certified and that kind of thing, sir. But
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 4: it's still a big money maker, I mean, and that
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: we have a huge ceremony.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: Well, in some ways, I'm guessing these things, you know,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: replace what people used to do in the Yellow pages, right,
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: you know, meaning very much needed and looking for a
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: vet and you know, I know we're aging ourselves. Right,
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I'm looking for a vet and then the you know,
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: you just look in the yellow pages and you you know,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: look and now you might look at your local you know,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: here we have the news organization around here that does
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: these things. It's usually a magazine called Washingtonian. They'll have
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 1: the best of doctor's issues or this issue that issue. No,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: that's stuff. So I imagine they are pretty important to these
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: small businesses.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: They are.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, look, I use it to for doctor for finding,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: and I know better to do because I don't know.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: If I don't know who I'm looking for, I'll go
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: to the finalist. Ye, pick one of those you know,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: somewhat vetted community. And I've always been happy. Yeah, so does.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, but that's probably our you know. I
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 4: mean we do a lot of like, uh, radio appearances
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: and stuff like that, but not you know, as far
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 4: as the public goes proy.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: The Reader's choice ceremony is the biggest one we do.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: If you had a million dollar windfall for your budget,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: what what would you invest it in?
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 3: About ten more investigative reporters?
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely more people, definitely more.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: That's what makes I mean, that's what gets loyalty and
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 4: creates subscribers.
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 3: It's great coverage. I mean, that is just it.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: It doesn't matter if we say, oh, you can have
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: two years for free and or you know, or we'll
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 4: send you a T shirt if you want to sign
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: up or whatever. It is good coverage. That's what creates
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: a loyal subscriber. And that's what and what does that
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: take more reporters?
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: So how do you cover Montgomery in Washington and how much?
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: But how how important our stories that impact Alabama in
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: Washington impact Mobile in Montgomery? And how do you I mean,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: do you have a bureaus? Do you have bureaus? Do
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: you have sort of freelance relationships.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: We don't have a bureau. We do cover Montgomery pretty heavily,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: and you know, we just try to keep up with
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: what's going on.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: It's sort of in session. You'll have a couple.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: And the things that are affecting us from there. As
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: far as national stuff, you know, if it touches us,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: we tend to we do something with it. I mean,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: certainly things like coal, ash and EPA and things like
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: that that are around here. We cover a lot of that.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 2: But I mean, are we you know, we don't try
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: to get into the whole day to day Trumpton thing is.
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 5: I mean, people have enough places to find, right, No,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 5: I guess I'm just thinking more of well get I mean,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 5: I mean I was surprised did Pencacle beat out Mobile
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: for a shipbuilder contract recently?
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: If they did, okay, because there was something that's coming
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: to Pensacola, And I thought Mobile built our ships and
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: then once they were built, they hung out in Pensacola.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: I thought that was the relationship the two cities had
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: with each other.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 4: We are currently dismantling one that we were we were.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: We are dising the s s U. Yeah, we're supposed
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: to dismail and then send them.
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 4: We're sending the US over to Fort Walton to make
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: a reef.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no kidding, that'll be.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was in you know what New York?
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: What what is growing and Mobile?
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 3: I mean we have airbus here, you know, So that's
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's right.
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: That's a big.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: Ship building. That's bring a lot.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: I have two of that hostile plant. That's an impressive facility. Yeah.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: They flipped from just being aluminum based ships to now
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: with steel, so it changed quite a bit.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 4: But I mean Air of Us behind to Loose, France
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 4: were the largest, you know, aerospace manufacturer in the world.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: It's growing tremendously. That is, that's become a big thing,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: you know, those big things I think that are really happening. Here.
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: University has grown a lot.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: Oh I know. I mean my nephew went to South
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: and we actually looked at it with my son before
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: we ended up going towhere. I was just blown away
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: and how big the campus is. This felt like a
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: felt like an old fashioned land Grant University campus. There
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: was just land.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: Every Really, it's really grown and it scun you know.
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 4: I actually went to South and it felt like you
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: were going to college at a shopping center because quite
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 4: literally that that.
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: Is not what it felt like when we toured. My goodness,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: years later it is.
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 3: It feels, it feels great. It's I'm proud of it.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: I went to spring Hill, know, right down the street,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 2: and I came here in eighty five and with the
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: South and just thought, what is this. It's like there
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: treats out there and things, and now I don't want
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: for eleven years anyways.
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: You know which is in Florida and South Florida. I
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: used to you know, feel that way about fi U F,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: A U U, C F U s F. They were
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: all commuter schools. They were all these sort of little okays,
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: but they were just sort of well, I didn't get
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: into Florida, Florida State or Miami and you know, well
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: not anymore. And it feels like South's that same way.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: You see that there and probably Troy too, right.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're really blown up a lot. So that's
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: that's really a big area. But the the medical is
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 2: really going, uh, they're really trying to push. They really
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: are trying to create sort of the same kind of
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: thing that they have at uav Inmobile.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: Of course, the port to the port about the port,
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: that one's a bit we have little of the deepest
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: port on the Gulf.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: Of Mexico now, so right, thought about that.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: But we've been fighting over what they do with the
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 4: dredge spoils that come from that because they go dump
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 4: it into bay and I'm thanks everyone who loves the
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 4: fish around here a very unhappy.
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: Right. No, it's interesting. My daughter did an internship with
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: the Scambia County Department of Resources Florida Scamby County and
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: learning the language of conservation. To talk to people on
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: all parts of the political spectrum was just such a
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: terrific education for her. And she would come back and
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: you know, she didn't grow up down there, her mom
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: diad but you know, and we would say these things
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: and then she really understood it. Oh you got it.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: If you make it all about fishing, suddenly you'll be
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: surprised at how many people care about conservation.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 4: Mean, look, one of our big investigative pieces that we
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 4: do is Alabama power dumping coal ash right next to
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 4: the Delta, which is called America's Amazon. It's got the
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 4: most the biodiverse, you know, waterway system in the entire country.
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 4: And you know, there's no political will to make them
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 4: stop doing it.
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 3: But you know, and you would.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 4: Think here in conservative Alabama, oh that's just a bunch
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 4: of tree hugging hippies trying to stop him.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: But now it is pretty people are pretty united and
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: saying this is not right.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 4: And and it's people who are not in office are
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 4: united against it.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 1: Yea, those who are not getting campaign contribution. Yes, I'm
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: curious the how much the other independent media in the region.
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: I think about my friend Warwick Sabing deep South today.
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys are familiar with what they're what
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: they're doing in Mississippi and Louisiana, and I think they
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: want to expand Arkansas pretty soon. Do you do any
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 1: of these? Is there a is there formalized networks that
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: you think would be helpful to you guys?
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: I think it would be helpful, but we don't. I mean,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 3: you know, I think the last time I made.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 4: All of those veend calls, I was like, Hey, they're
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 4: having a problem with our print or who do that?
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: Right? Right?
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: That is just that right?
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's just one of those things. Everybody's
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: too busy.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: And yeah, well that's the sense I've gotten. It's like
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 1: you could all use a lot. There are a lot
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: of things that could be helpful in a scalable or
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: a network effect. The problem is you just, you know,
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: like any startup, you know, you don't have time.
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: You're taking the car all the other stuff. You know.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, you know, it's it's a it's
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: a small business. You're busy everything, and it's it is hard.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 2: I would love to sit around and have and shoot
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: a fact with those people and exchange ideas and think
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: about ways we could help one another. But and even
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 2: when that does occasionally come across the radar, it never
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: really comes to provision right now.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: I I you know, I've been involved with these various
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: summits in different states, and there's a lot of do
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: gooders out there. And I mean that in the best
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: sense of the word, right whether it's the Night Foundation,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: whether it's MacArthur and Press Forward and what they're trying
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: to do, and a few other but it is it
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: is hard, I think because you guys are too busy, Yeah,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: I mean to sort of fully take advantage of those resources.
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 3: I mean we're non stop on triage.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 2: If somebody says, okay, let's stop what you're doing and
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: let's spend three weeks training this on this and what.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: What? What have you learned about Google ads network and
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: small business demands when it comes to advertising, and do
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: you feel like you have convinced a small business operator
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: that it's better to deal with you than to just
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: use Google Ads.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 4: Well, we did have a man walk up to the
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 4: door yesterday and say he was sick of using that
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 4: and he he was going to try try us to
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 4: get in it.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: So I mean, I mean, I hear this anecdotally all
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: the time, right that the small business is are like,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: you know this automated stuff. I don't know who to
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: deal with. I don't know who to talk to when
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: you have an issue, and they sort of miss having
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: an AD sales rep. I mean to be totally that we.
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 4: Do a lot of the digital advertising for our clients now,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 4: so that's one part of you know, well that's interesting.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 1: Like you so a business comes to you and says, hey,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: we want to penetrate the entire region, and you will
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: place ads beyond just what's in yours of Facebook and
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: Google it.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: You know, we have a far we have far more
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Facebook friends than they do. And so you know what
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 2: we're selling ads, whether it's a print ad, there's going
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: to be a digital that comes with that, and we've
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: packaged all that.
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: Stuff and then we boost it and I'll do all that.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, were's someone who just want to do digital,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: but most people want to do print and that did
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: some digital with it, and then they can and think, Okay,
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: I'm handling all this stuff and I don't have to
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: talk to Google or Facebook and all that. Yeah, that's
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: been sort of our solution to it is is to
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 2: be a one stop shop for them a little bit
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: and help them in that regard the moment.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: Advertessers love that.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, somebody to deal with and somebody else is
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: going to navigate this mess and you guys have to
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: become experts in it because you're trying to spread your
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: own brand and do all those things. So that that
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: seems like a really I assume that's a pretty good
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: that's that's helped your advertising that you're also a vendor.
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and we're not. I mean, we are
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: very aware that print will go away at some point.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 3: I mean, and we would all still like to eat
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 3: for a few more decades around here, so we are
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 3: we're trying to be nimble.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm starting to be convinced that maybe print
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: never fully dies well because we're seeing it. I mean,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: you know, the to watch the plateauing of digital books
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: right and independent bookstores are thriving around this country now.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: They've been very event driven. I'm very friendly with an
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: independent bookstore owner and he and he'll say, if we
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: didn't have events, I wouldn't have anybody browsing. That's only
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: you got to bring people in. But the fact that
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: there's still something about the tangible nature of things. And
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: you know, I had one local proprietor tell me, you know,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: I realized people want the obituaries, and they want obituaries
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: in print.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, but you know, I think that there's still
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: I would agree with you completely. I do think that
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: there's there's a level at which print may go down.
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: But I do think that there will still be print
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 2: for some length of time, maybe forever. I don't know.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: I think you know, it is a just becomes less
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 2: and less. I mean, the Internet becomes less believable every day,
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: and you know, there is that tangibility, there is this
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: maybe this isn't fake.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 4: Well, I mean even I mean I think that's straight
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 4: with advertisers too, but I mean I see it with
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 4: our own reporters.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 3: It means more to them when they have their words
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: in print.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: Well. And the thing is we're all learning and cognition stuff, right.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: What you read physic tangibly you remember better than what
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: you read on a screen.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I think there's still room for it. And
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 2: we you know, we're seeing growth this year in print
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 2: sales are are going up again. We've had I think
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 2: we're on pace for our best years since twenty nineteen.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: Right now, it's interesting, that would be that would be good.
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: You have any specific reason.
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: You think it's.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 2: Adjustments and hiring. We got somebody in gotcha really health and.
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: A sales manager, somebody who used to be a TV.
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: Station And understand, no, I think there's going to be
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of those. On those opportunities, we'll get you
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: out of here. On that. You're in a community. I
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: love Mobile, I love visiting. We get over there a
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: reasonable amount. Although I love my little I love my
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: little Pensacola community, and we're I feel like we're twin
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: cities right where these twin little Gulf Coast cities and
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: I feel like Mobile and Pensacola. You know, it's funny
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 1: you tell people. I tell people who don't know the
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: Panhandle very well, they just make an assumption based on
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: the you know, And I'm like, now, these coastal cities
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: are just they're different, you know, and it's everybody's pretty
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: proud of them. And they're not a polarizing place. So
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: how do you export that? Because it really is, Pensacola
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: is less polarized than what anybody might think. And I
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: feel the same way about Mobile, and yet people that
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: don't live in the region are like, well, how's that
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 1: the case, Well, what would you say?
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 3: I will tell you why. I mean, everyone has their own.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 4: Political beliefs, but we all live together down here, and
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 4: we know that someone who might votes differently than you might.
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: We'd probably come and change.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 4: Your tire if you needed it, or would come and help,
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 4: you know, bring you a casse role if your grandmother dies.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 4: And we don't hate each other as much, I think
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 4: as sometimes if you're not living with people who are
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 4: all different than you and they're all the same, you know,
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 4: So that's mine. I mean, I'm never going to hate
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 4: someone because they have some sort of political sign in
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 4: their yard that I don't agree with, because I know
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 4: they're not, you know, one hundred entirely, you know, terrible persons.
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 4: And I think people we all live and work together,
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 4: so it's just it's like that, and we realize that.
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: I think it's the coastal nature as well. You know,
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: it's just the fact that people are coming in and
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: out and who are from different places, and you know you've.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: Got a little more transient.
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's transit. I mean, pens Cola for sure. I
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 2: mean there's a lot.
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: More with the right, with all the Mayas.
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 4: We have all these international companies here, so I mean
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 4: we've just got a very diverse popular.
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of people here who've been somewhere else. Yes,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 2: Unfortunately for a lot of places that's.
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 3: In elspare in the state, it's not like that as much.
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: So well, it's great to get to know you guys.
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: And like I said, you know, I'm a I'm a
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: part time you know, not not part time enough to
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 1: get any of the advantages that your next governor takes
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: advantage of. Bye by you know, by.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: Being Wonderingmobile right downtown to the line and stop, will
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: go get somebody.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: Well, absolutely, well, good to get to know you. And
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: where can people find your stuff, find your work?
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 4: You can find us at lean outmobill dot com which
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 4: is l A G N I A P p E
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 4: mybill dot com.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: There. It is uh great to get to know you,
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Ashley rob Thanks for the time.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: Thanks, I appreciate it.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: You got it. H Well, I hope you enjoyed that
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: profile of yet another uh type of local news entrepreneur
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: there that's in Mobile, Alabama who is essentially taken. You know,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: we hadn't. I hadn't focused a lot on the alternative
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: weeklies that have been able to grow into something bigger.
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: And that's another thing we've noticed that I've noticed that
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: there are some and you even see the possibility here
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 1: in the DC area where the City Paper, which is
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: owned by Mark Eine, who is a sort of as
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: also an investor into the Commanders and a few other
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: major sort of d C sports enterprises. There was a
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: story that he offered essentially to handle the local and
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: sports coverage for the Post and create some sort of
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: relationship with the Post, and the Post passed up on
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: that idea too. But the point is is that some
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: there are some alternative weeklies that have been able to
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: reimagine themselves and become the mainstream local uh. And that
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: is the story in Mobile Alabama. As the as the
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: Advanced Media it's Mobile Press Register has pulled back, land
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: Yapp has been able to fill the gap there. And
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: guess what Alabama actually is a bit of a transition
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: for me into my top five list this week Top
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: five Top Test. It's another twist. This one's on Governor's
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 1: races and it is on the five longest droughts of
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 1: sort of one party dominance or one party deficits if
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: you will, that have a realistic chance of being broken
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: this cycle. Just to sort of update you, South Dakota
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: right now has the crown of longest running one party
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: dominance of any state in the Union for forty seven years.
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: Since nineteen seventy nine, a Republican has held the governorhip
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 1: in South Dakota uninterrupted. No other state is at forty
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 1: seven years. There are two other states that are over
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: forty years. It is Washington State and Utah. Both have
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 1: had the same party control the governorship going back to
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five. And no, I don't think South Dakota
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 1: both Washington Utah are not up this cycle. They're on
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: the presidential cycle. The next longest streak that is up
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: this cycle is Oregon at thirty nine years, and they've
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: had a few competitive races where Republicans have come very
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 1: very close. About early in the last decade, former Portland
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: trailblazer Chris Dudley came offully close to pulling up. So
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: he's actually running for governor again, but he trails in
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: a fairly crowded primary, and she could be Tina Cotex
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: running for reelection. We had a crazy we had sort
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: of a very competitive three way election the last time.
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: So you know, there's a chance Oregon pops on my radar,
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 1: but it doesn't break my top five. But the point
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: is what I want to focus on this week. It's
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 1: my top five lists or the it's the five most
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: likely droughts of fifteen years or longer. That's what I'm
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: considering a real partisan drought fifteen years longer because it's
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: essentially four terms that you haven't won in four terms,
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: you haven't won in four elections. That a party out
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: of power. And in this case it is because we
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: are looking at a year that is all that it
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: is probably leaning blue. It is hard to imagine that
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: a long Republican drought somehow comes to fruition. Now, one
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: that could happen. It's California, right, There is a chance,
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: it's not a zero percent chance, there's a chance that
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: both Steve Hilton and Chad Bianco end up one and
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: two in that top in the top two primary in California,
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: and that you're guaranteed a Republican which would break a
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: drought in California that goes back to Schwarzenegger, it's not
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: as nearly as long as some of them, but that
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: drought is about fifteen years. But now it looks like
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: a Democrat is going to get in the second slot.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: Whether it's bisera, whether it's fire, it does feel like
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: that the Trump endorsement of Hilton has prevented that. So
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: when you really look at some of the Republican drought states,
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: there really isn't There really isn't one that's in the
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: double digits that's going to happen. I mean, Kansas, I
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: think is a Democratic held state that I would favor
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: the Republicans in, but literally it hasn't been that long.
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: It's been I think seven years. Basically, it's just been
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: two terms since the Republican Party held the governorship in Kansas.
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: So in the droughts this year, the big long droughts
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: most likely to be broken are going to be Democrats
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: sort of breaking their losing streaks in some of these states.
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: So in that sense, my top five the five most
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: likely states to to where where the Democrats could end
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: a two three, a two or a three decade drought
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 1: in winning that governor's race. So number five on the
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: list is the one with the long with the longest
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 1: drought that I think is going to at least be
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 1: a single digit race. By no means do I think
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: the Republicans are going to lose the Texas governorship. But
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: I think Greg Abbott is much more vulnerable than people realize.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: Is trying to do something unprecedented. He's trying to become
• 1:33:34
  Speaker 1: the longest serving UH Texas governor in history. As I've
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 1: told you before, every state gets fatigue eventually. I apparently
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: accept Oregon in South Dakota, right, I kid, but party
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: fatigues a real thing, especially when you're in a state
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 1: that isn't that isn't as you know, that is more
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 1: light blue or light red, And in this case, I
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 1: think Texas is turning from dark red to light red.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: Democrats kind of win something to actually prove that they
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 1: can actually win something in the state. They have not
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: won anything statewide yet in a long time, not since
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. It's the last time they won any
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: state wide race. But they do Look it looks likely
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 1: that both major statewide races are going to be decided
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: by five points or less. And I can't I don't
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: think that has happened certainly since nineteen ninety four, where
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: multiple races decided by five point statewide races in the
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: state of Texas decided by five points or less. So look, Gina,
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: Youinojosa is is she's been on this podcast's There's never
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: been a poll that has shown her anywhere more than
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: four or five six points behind. Abbot does not break fifty.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: I have not seen a poll where he has broke
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: fifty in quite some time. This school voucher program that
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: he pushed is very polarizing. Where it's popular, it's really popular.
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: But he had to do a purge in his own
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: party in order to get this through the party. The
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: Republican Party in Texas is incredibly divided, and divided parties
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: become vulnerable. Throw Paxton. If Paxton wins this run off
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: in the Senate race, you're just going to get more
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: money into the state. More money into the state helps
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: all boats rise on the blue side of things. So
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: number five on my list it's you know, I do
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: I think there's I think there's a greater than ten
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 1: percent chance Democrats can win this, which is a big deal.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: You can look at the prediction markets and see what
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 1: they put it at but I think there is certainly
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: a better than one in ten shot that Democrats could
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: pull this off. All the ingredients are there. The question
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 1: is whether he knows can present herself as sort of
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 1: moderate enough. Is the Democratic brand too liberal for some
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: of these swing voters who maybe are a little tired
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: of Abbot, maybe think the Republican Party's gotten too far,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: you sture, maybe are upset about what's been happening to
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: their public school system. You know, that's the open question here.
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: But number five on this list of drought breaking is Texas.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: Number four, I said, Alabama, there is and it goes
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: to something I brought up the other day. I think
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: the decision by the governor to first call a special
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: session and then first and say they weren't going to
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 1: call a special session, then suddenly, after a phone call
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 1: from President Trump, they decided to do a special session
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: to redraw them map is going to fire up African
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: American voters in Alabama in a way that I don't
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 1: think Republicans have fully processed. You the fact that Doug Jones,
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 1: who's run statewide recently, has certainly has a good relationship
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 1: with the African American community, But is you know, It
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: is not always easy to fire up of voters if
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: they don't think you can win. But now he's got
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: something to run against, and suddenly they're going to do
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: this special session where in the middle of campaign season
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: and to be able to send the message that Doug
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: Jones is going to be able to send, and the
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 1: message it's being received by African Americans in Alabama that
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: white Republicans are so enthusiastic about disenfranchising you from those
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: congressional seats that they can't even wait one election cycle.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: God forbid, there's two African American members of Congress for
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: two more years coming from the state of Alabama. That
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: is such a problem for the leadership of Alabama that
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 1: they are rushing to do this. Now, you're going to
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 1: tell me that's not going to fire up voters to
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 1: come out with the polls. You already have a likely
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 1: Republican nominee who it isn't clear he's even constitutionally eligible
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 1: to hold the office. I mean, Tommy Tupperville is not
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: making I don't think he's legally eligible to be governor.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: They have a seven year residency requirement. It seems pretty
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 1: clear he doesn't meet the seven year requirement, and it's
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: going to be fascinating to see how the courts end
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: up doing this, and maybe you have to wait until
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 1: the election is won and he's certified before courts there
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 1: standing and this gets maybe this gets litigated there. But
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: there is a seven year residency requirement, and he seems
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: to not have any evidence to prove that he was
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: a resident for more than seven years, seven straight years.
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 1: So that's just a small issue that hangs over his campaign.
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: He is he has not been somebody that is. Look,
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 1: being a US Senator is not a lot of hard work.
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: It's stressful in different ways, but it's not a lot
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 1: of hard work. I think people expect their governors to
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: have to work pretty hard, and I think the part
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: time nature that Tupperville has treated politics, he has treated
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: politics as if he sent me retired.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: He literally lives in Florida while campaigning in Alabama, or
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 1: did when he first started for the USN and now
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: of course he's claims to have a residence in Alabama.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: I think this is a race that's always traveled under
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: the radar, and I think this is a twenty three
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: year drought right now, twenty four year drought by the
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: time by the time January comes around, and it's probably
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: you know, it's number four on my list of a
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: drought that's most likely to be flipped over. Number three
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: on the list is for potentially the same reason, but
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: also because it's just simply a swing state. Is the
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: state of Georgia you have. I mean, look, it's an
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: open seat in a swing state, and the wind is
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: blowing in the direction of the party out of power.
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: The Democratic nominee is likely to be the former mayor
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: of Atlanta, Keiser Lance Bottoms. In a governor's race, being
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: to Atlanta can sometimes be a political problem, not an asset.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 1: I think if you're running in a senate race, it's
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 1: a little more of an asset than if you're running
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 1: in a governor's race. And let's see what happens in
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: the gubernatorial primary. I think there's going to be a runoff.
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 1: In theory it is, you know, Donald Trump may engage
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 1: in this primary. The candidate he endorsed is suddenly finding
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: themselves in a real race. Bert Jones, who Sydney lieutenant governor,
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: has had Trump's endorsement. It seems like forever a businessman
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: jumped into this race about a month ago named Rick Jackson.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: He has transformed the race because he's spending a boatload
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: of money. He's probably the stronger nominee if he gets there.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: I think Burt Jones is too ideologically rigid and probably
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: just a much tougher sell. And if I think he's
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: a nominee, I think I think Democrats becomes a coin
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: flip raise. I think Greg Jackson makes a little bit different.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: I think if he's the nominee, I think he's a
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: little bit more difficult because he's not He's not quote
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 1: unquote the incumbent party. He doesn't He's embraced Trump without
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 1: being the Trump endorsed candidate, and so he may be
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: able to put together an outsider coalition without having the
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: downsides of being part of the incumbent party. But it's
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: still because it's a swing state, because of the way
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: the winds are blowing it, because the Senate race is
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 1: going to be one where I think it's advantage for
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: the Democrats with John Oss out there, it's a twenty
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 1: four year drought for just like with Alabama. But it's
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: a real shot. Basically. The last time you know is
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 1: that two cycle nineteen ninety eight a bunch of Democratic
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: governors won in the South, and a bunch of them
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: lost reelection in two thousand and two, and it's the
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: last time in many of these states that a Democrat
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: was able to hold the governorship. That was true of Alabama,
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: that was true of Georgia, that was also true of
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: South Carolina. And so I think both Georgia and Alabama
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: certainly are going to be very competitive. Certainly are going
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: to be single digit races and probably under five points,
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: and maybe a coin flip Number two on the list,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: you got to go up North Ohio where dare we
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: say it, the prediction markets actually have the Democrats with
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: the slight advantage. The two nominees, Amy Acton on the
• 1:42:26
  Speaker 1: Democratic side, who was the Mike Republican governor Mike Dewin's
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: COVID advisor is the Democratic nominee. She's never run for
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: public office before, sort of a newcomer to politics, I'll
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: admit when she first got in, I thought, oh, being
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: associated with COVID, isn't that bad politics? Is that going
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: to be helpful? But she has run a very sort of,
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: very much the tortoise and hair type of campaign, and
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: she has just been building block after building block, slowly
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: but surely, and suddenly she looks like a formidable nominee. Meanwhile,
• 1:43:00
  Speaker 1: on the Republican side, he had Vivik Ramaswami who decided
• 1:43:03
  Speaker 1: to jump into this race. It cleared the field. There
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: were others that have been waiting to become governor. There's
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: a retiring attorney general that would have likely been one
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: of the main candidates, perhaps Jim Trussel, the current lieutenant
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 1: governor and former football coach of Ohio State. He might
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: have run, but Ramaswami came in, got Trump's endorsement, cleared
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: the field, and he's becoming a He's a very polarizing figure.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: Doze is unpopular. And then he came up with a doge.
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: He may have he may have already lost this race.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: So one of the things he did is he came
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: out and he said that Ohio has a surplus of
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: public universities that are quote replicas and clones of one another.
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: And he his platform included this idea of merging various
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: institutions to reduce administration, bureaucracy and overhead, and he wants
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 1: to close the subpar schools. He may have a really
• 1:44:07
  Speaker 1: good point, sort of from big picture. But you know
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: who loves their universities, the communities that the universities are in.
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: Everybody loves their own university. And Mike the Wine, in fact,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: the outgoing governor has separated himself from Ramaswami in the issue.
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: In fact, he says Ohio intentionally placed public colleges within
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: thirty miles of every resident to ensure that commuters who
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: may not be able to afford room and board would
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: still have access to a college education. So basically, Mike
• 1:44:40
  Speaker 1: the Wine, this is so unpopular that the outgoing governor,
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: who is never going to be on the ballot again,
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to get near this idea. And let me
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: tell you, on social media, the Ohio Democrats constantly beat
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: up Ramaswami for this. And you know when this is
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: going to be front and center every weekend beach right
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: before election day. College football season. You're going to have
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: your Miami of Ohios, your Ohio Universities, your Toledos, and
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: you name it. And every weekend they're going to be
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: playing football. And every weekend their alumni are going to
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: care what they do. And every weekend they're going to
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: be reminded that Viva grammeswami might want to close that school.
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: This is one of those cases. It reminds me of
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: the back in the eighties and nineties when they were
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 1: right after the Cold War, when there was attempts to
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: sort of consolidate and shrink military bases, and we had
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: these military base closure commissions, and it look it made
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: sense from the grand scheme of things, but the minute
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: one actually was going to get closed, there was this
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: uproar in the local community, uproar from that member of Congress,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: maybe even that governor, maybe that senator. And a lot
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 1: of times they were stopped because the public was so
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: upset about losing the military base that had become a
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: piece of the fabric of their community. That's this is
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: this stuff, This was this is an unforced air that
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: I look at this. This may be if he loses,
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: this will be the reason Ramaswamie loses. This is a
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: fifth a sixteen year drought four terms. Democrats pull it
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 1: off twenty ten, twenty oh six was the last time
• 1:46:24
  Speaker 1: they won a governor's race, and they lost it in
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 1: twenty ten and hadn't hadn't won since. And the number
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: one of the list is one that's frankly been on
• 1:46:35
  Speaker 1: the top five when I say the top five most
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: likely to flip no matter what, and that of course
• 1:46:39
  Speaker 1: is Iowa. It is also a four election drought for
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: that was twenty six. Is the last time Democrats elected
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: a governor in Ohio. They lost it. That governor lost
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: reelection in twenty ten, and they haven't won since. Rob
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 1: sand is probably the slight favorite here. Both Rob Saying
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: and Amy Acton at this point I own Ohio, believe
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 1: it or not. They think are both slight favorites to
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: win at this point in the cycle. I think we
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: all knew they'd be more competitive than we expected. But
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 1: the fact that they're already ahead says two things. One,
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: the national wind is definitely blowing in the Democrats direction,
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: and two local stuff matters, and Rob Saying has run
• 1:47:20
  Speaker 1: a very effective local campaign, and so is Amy Acting.
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: You know, And there you go. There's the sweet top
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: five lens.
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: Ask Chuck, all.
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: Right, let's do a little last chuck. First one comes
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 1: from Kenny and massive massa pequa. I like to be
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: able to say mass up peaqua. And he says, this
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: is my submission for the five timers Club. Well, Kenny
• 1:47:51
  Speaker 1: massup Pequa. It's very proud of you in this one. Congratulations,
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: thanks again for answering my previous questions. With the national
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: debt now over one hundred percent of GDP, how did
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: we go from a surplus a couple of decades ago
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: to today's massive deficits without a major crisis driving it?
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: What are the real risks if this continues? And should
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 1: average Americans be concerned about long term consequences? Or is
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: this less urgent than it sounds. I'd say let's go Mets,
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 1: but thirty two games in and it's already looking like
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: a rebuilding here. Sincerely, Kenny ah Man, I don't know.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, boy, this this whole Mets situation, it's I
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: guess this is why the the sports tabloids are just
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: are always going to have something something to cover, and
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: if they didn't, maybe, you know, it's why New York
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: City still, thank goodness, we still have our backpage tabloids,
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: because how else would be would we be able to
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: chronicle this incredible Mets campaign that they're that they're embarking
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: upon here in twenty twenty six. Look, I think the
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: you know, the debt is one of these issues that
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: I think we've chicken little for forty years, and unfortunately,
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: we have been telling people the debt is to a
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: damn high, this is becoming unmanageable, and then we seem
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: to manage it, and then we seem to manage it
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: and nothing seems to and we've gone you know I
• 1:49:25
  Speaker 1: you know, Ross Perrot arguably used the issue of the
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: debt as a way to sort of become relevant, and
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: it got Bill Clinton, and certainly the markets rewarded Bill
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: Clinton for his focus and trying to balance a budget
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: and actually create a surplus. And look, we were in
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: a brief period of time when it came after the
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: Cold War, before nine to eleven, where it felt like
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 1: we had we could, we could, we could sort of
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: right size our defense budgets. I brought up base closures
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 1: in the UH in my top five list, right, those
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: were some things we were trying to do in order
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: to start to shrink of the country's nut, if you will,
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: just a little bit in a variety of places. And
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: so there's two ways to look at our ability to
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: have a surplus in the nineties. Number one is we
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: had that you had to have the political will right,
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 1: and we had between Ross pero, between the Republicans using
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: it as a cudgel a little bit, and with Bill
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 1: Clinton seeing the upside of economic prosperity and certainly how
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: the markets Bob Rubin, his then uh national Economic Advisor
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: eventual Treasury Secretary would talk him into it. It Uh,
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: it worked, and it worked then. But it may have
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: been a unique period in that what I just described right,
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 1: cold War is over, nine to eleven had a half
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: and yet so we felt pretty secure in our in
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: our place, and and it was a time that we
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: could start right sizing things. I mean, if you want
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: to know what really blew a hole through the through
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: the through this deficit, and where we stopped taking it
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: seriously is in the most recent time is nine to
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: eleven happens. And we still went through with the Bush
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: tax cuts. You know it is we have separated out
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: the cost of military operations from the taxpayers, even though
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: we all still pay for it. But essentially we debt
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: finance our wars. We're debt financing, you know, parts of
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: our social safety dead. And it's worked, and the longer
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: it works, the more you're going to think you can
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: keep doing it. So I do. Here's what I'd like
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: to understand better. And just so you know, I'm going
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: to have the head of the P. Peterson Foundation, which
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: is sort of the one of the leading sort of
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 1: think tanks that focuses on the debt and is trying
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: to get bipartisan interest in it in figuring out, you know,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: can we start to you know, is We've had plenty
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: of people say this is a national security risk, but
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: I kind of think we need to outline it better.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: I think we need to educate the public better and
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: explain it better, because, you know, at first it was well,
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: it turns out we can withstand a greater debt to
• 1:52:40
  Speaker 1: gt GDP ratio than we thought we could, And as
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: long as the bond market doesn't complain, we're fine. But
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: it does make us vulnerable to our foreign creditors if
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: they ever choose to band together and make us pay,
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 1: you know, and sort of call in their chips. But
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: as long as the United States is essentially that the
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: debt of the United States is the equivalent of a
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: gold bar, will probably have even more room to run.
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 1: You know, maybe we get to one hundred and twenty
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: five percent of debt to GDP before the markets flinch.
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: Maybe it's going to be one hundred and fifty percent.
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: You're asking questions that I'd like a better because you
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 1: know what plenty of experts said to us, we've blown
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: past all these supposed yellow flags. Well, if we get
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 1: past here, then it's going to become a problem. We
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: get passed here. Ultimately, it's going to be the bond
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 1: market that makes this decision for us, And so far
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: it just hasn't. It hasn't budged. But we've now had
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: you know, this president in particular, he's just blown a
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: huge hole through this deficit. Again the fact that we
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: didn't but I go back to that nine to eleven, Right,
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 1: nine to eleven happens we have to do this surge
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: of spending changing, you know, basically reimagining our military posture
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: all over the world. And we got to do it again,
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: by the way, and we're and we pursued tax cuts
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: at the same time. Donald Trump just did it again.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: He's he's basically trying to He just made tax his
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: tax cuts permanent and ask for a fifty percent defense
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: budget increase. Well, what are you going to cut? Do
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: you just want the government to be a military and
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: that's it a military service, its debt, and you know,
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: pay out whatever whatever you can to Social Security and Medicare.
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: So I don't have a good answer on this. I
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: want to bring in more experts on this and understand.
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: You know, it's about time. I'm going to have Mark
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: x Andy on SU and this is going to be
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: a big chunk of our conversation. You know, we've been
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: told we can't handle certain things, and yet we still can't.
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: At some point there's going to be a breaking point,
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: and I fear it's like most things, We're not going
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: to deal with it until it's a crisis. We are
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: not going to prepare for this crisis. We are going
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: to simply manage it after the fact. And my guess
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 1: is when the bond markets go crazy, you know, then
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: it's going to be my generation that gets two thirds
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 1: if it's so security benefit, rather than the whole thing,
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: because God forbid we ever make the boomers pay for
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: a frickin thing. All right, Sorry, I had to do
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: a little boomer attack with that because guess who's guess
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: who's been the most responsible, not just boomer leadership, but
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: it's all been boomer demands of the government, whether it's
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: free this free that. So all of those things, and
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: maybe these are all good things that we've built, they
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: all cost money, and these same folks want their tax
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: cuts to it. Can't have everything. And at some point
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: that's going to be the break. That's what's going to
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 1: break us. We haven't done it yet. I guess it'll
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: be up to the bomb markets, all right. Next question,
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: if even if one or even two Supreme Court vacancies
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: were to open up before November, could that re energize
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: it currently soft Republican base and reshape the election dynamics.
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: Given Republicans structural advantages and fundraising, could a high stakes
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: confirmation fight serve as a catalyst that brings disengaged voters
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: back into the fold. And on the flip side, are
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: Democrats at risk of measuring the drapes too early in
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: assuming the current political environment holds through the fall best David, Look,
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: I think that at this point, if you're the Republican,
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: you're trying to save the Senate, you're giving up on
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: the House. I mean, you know, maybe the redistricting will
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: mitigate the losses from twenty seats to fifteen seats, but
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: I think we're you know, we're beyond. We're beyond the
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: point where simply redistricting in a few states is going
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: to save the Republican majority of the House. It is not.
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: But what is potentially salvageable from the Republicans is saving
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: their Senate majority. And you've outlined potentially what could do
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 1: it a big fight over the Supreme Court. But I'm
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: not one hundred percent sure it's going to go. The
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: way is sort of just do what it's done in
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: the past. For Republicans, there's no doubt the vacant Scalia seat.
• 1:57:41
  Speaker 1: I think it's the sole reason Donald Trump won. You know,
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: you could pick a million things. If you were to
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: say what was the one thing you would change that
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: probably would have changed the outcome of the election. I
• 1:57:51
  Speaker 1: think it's Scalia staying alive. Scalia lives, Trump don't women,
• 1:57:56
  Speaker 1: But that Senate seat mattered. Excuse mean that Spring Court seat,
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: or just enough to voters who didn't like Trump but
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 1: who were conservative, who who decided to vote for And
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: I think if you talk that I think I've said
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: this before. If you talk to Claire mccaskell and Joe Donnelly,
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: the now former senators of Missouri and Indiana, in twenty eighteen.
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 1: They will tell you that the difference between them winning
• 1:58:20
  Speaker 1: and losing in their minds was the Kavanaugh confirmation fight,
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: and when that became a partisan fight, it wasn't just
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 1: that there was a Supreme Court opening. It became the
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: national story. So that's my unknown here. Conservatives are winning
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: all the time in the Court, and the two most
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 1: likely vacancies are going to be conservative vacancies. So you're
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: not talking about a change in the makeup of the court.
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's as motivating as Kavanaugh was,
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: or as motivating as Amy Cony Barrett or the open
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 1: Scalia seat was, where literally the election could change the
• 1:59:00
  Speaker 1: balance of power on the court. In this case, nothing
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: would change. Now, that'd be just more youthful conservatives on
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: the court. And there's certainly been plenty of speculation. Now
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: it's my understanding, and you've heard from better experts than me,
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: better reporters than me, and sarahsk Or that Thomas is
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: going nowhere, Thomas is staying, but Alito Alito might be
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: ready to go. But if it's a low profile former
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: clerk of Alitos, I just don't know if it galvanizes.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: Maybe it does Kavanaugh galvanized because of the circumstances of
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: the confirmation itself. It became sort of tabloid fodder that
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: elevated it even more than it became this sort of
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: It became part of the culture wars, and that did
• 1:59:54
  Speaker 1: fire up the Republican base enough, but it didn't fire
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: it up that much that it helped Republicans and House races, right,
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: So it helped in a couple of red states, Indiana
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: and Missouri. So, you know, does this save a Texas
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: senenc I guess to save an Alaska senenc, a Nebraska senence,
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: Kansas senence? That you know, maybe, But I think you
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: at your your you're a you're assuming that conservatives don't
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: feel satisfied. I think they, you know, I don't think
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 1: the stuff that used to motivate them and what they
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 1: wanted to get done, this court's done for them. Sometimes
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: when you're satisfied, you're not as fired up about the
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: next time it comes around. Right, So that's I I
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: understand the thinking. I do think the trumpet White House
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: is going to push this idea. I think Alita my
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: I think it's more likely than not Alito gets asked
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: to step down and they do this because they'd be
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: fools not to. They're probably you know, right now, they're
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 1: more likely to lose a Senate than win the Senate.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: And you certainly aren't going to get a Supreme Court
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 1: nominee through a Democratic you know, a Senate. I don't
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: think you will. I just don't. So if you, you know,
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: if Alito wants to go in the next three years
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: or four years, this might be the only political time
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: to do it, if he wants to guarantee, say his
• 2:01:30
  Speaker 1: clerk replaces him. All right. Next question comes from Mark
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: h of Alan, Texas, another Texan. All right, Hey, Chuck,
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: totally appalled by the attempted assassination at the Correspondence Center,
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: but humored me on this. Can the alleged assailants initial
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: defense plea be insanity due to Trump arrangement syndome, just
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 1: so the government has to go on the record that
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: this is not a real thing. There's no more infuriating
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: way to display ignorance than to counter any valid critique
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: of the administration with a made up cycle logical affliction. Well,
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: we used to have Obama to arrangement syndrome, which which
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 1: the left. You still accuse the right of just so
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: you know it's not in this case, it wasn't. And
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: I do think there is some truth to it in
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: with some people where everything is that right and and
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: you kind of you kind of need to not get
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: stuck in that. But this this has run the other
• 2:02:25
  Speaker 1: way in the past. Anyway, you signed up Mark h Allen,
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: Texas the high school that produced Kyler Murray, who your
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 1: Packers will face twice a year now, alas I like
• 2:02:32
  Speaker 1: your chances. Yeah, I don't think Kyler Murray is going
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: to be starting in both games that the Packers face
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: the Vikings in just my prediction there. That's a that's
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 1: an interesting what's an interesting thesis you put out there
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: that you kind of hope that defense pleads insanity and
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: says they have trumped arrangement syndrome. But look, I do
• 2:02:58
  Speaker 1: you know, we talk about this a lot. The fact
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: is Donald Trump has reshaped both parties right now. Right
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: he reshaped the Republican Party, but in many ways the
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: Democratic Party is essentially being reshaped by resistance to him,
• 2:03:13
  Speaker 1: and at some point when he goes away, the parties
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: are going to resettle and reorganize themselves around perhaps what
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: they want to be rather than what they're against. Look,
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: the Republican Party, arguably, in fact, the reason Donald Trump
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 1: was able to take over the party is they had
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: organized themselves as just an own the Libs Party, right.
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 1: They were not for anything anymore, you know, they were
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: just simply about beating the cultural left. And it became
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: and I would argue his wing of the party that
• 2:03:44
  Speaker 1: they argument that they wanted to play was that, hey,
• 2:03:47
  Speaker 1: politics is about culture. Politics isn't about ideas anymore, and
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 1: you've got to win the culture wars, and you need
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: to embrace this idea that politics is only about winning
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: the culture wars. So in that sense, I think, I
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: think the republic A Party also, So I think both
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: parties frankly are organized as reactionary forces. They are not.
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: There is there is not a coherent identity in either
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: party that isn't framed as a reaction to the other
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 1: other political movement in the country. And until you know,
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: and you know, I think for now that is you know,
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. I wonder it took the Democrat.
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: It took the Democrats in some ways they let they
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: were they were sort of consumed by Reagan. And so
• 2:04:37
  Speaker 1: it may explain why they had such little success sort
• 2:04:43
  Speaker 1: of winning in the Reagan era and they needed it.
• 2:04:45
  Speaker 1: Took another four years after Reagan before they were able
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: to organize themselves as something different, not just as reaction
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: to Reagan, and that is something I've been thinking about
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: when it comes to Team Blue Lateley. Next question, another
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: Texas question, Austin from Austin. He might be a five
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: time this mort Austin Rights. I've been thinking about the
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: potential impact if Texas were to move to close primaries
• 2:05:11
  Speaker 1: requiring formal party registration without opening the door to a
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: legal challenge from voters who've participated in both parties primaries
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: under the current system, arguing they being forced to declare
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: allegiance to a private organization in a publicly funded election.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: Do you think that kind of argument has any legal viability,
• 2:05:25
  Speaker 1: especially in a place like Texas, And what a group
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: like the Open Primaries Education Fund even take on that fight? Actually,
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: the open Primary folks are taking on this fight. I
• 2:05:35
  Speaker 1: do think this equal protection argument that essentially you're outlining
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: here has some validity to it, and it just hasn't
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: been tested. I do think that taxpayer funded partisan primaries,
• 2:05:48
  Speaker 1: where a taxpayer is being asked to join a private
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: institution in order to participate in a publicly funded event
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: like an election constitutional and I think that's the way
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: to go after these partisan primaries that are closed that
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: you have to open them up to everybody. That you
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 1: can have partisan primaries, but they have to be open
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: to all taxpayers, or you can have partisan primaries and
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: they have to be privately funded what are sort of
• 2:06:21
  Speaker 1: colloquially called firehouse primaries, meaning the party would pay for them.
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: We have the South Carolina presidential primaries or quasi privately funded.
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: The filing fees are absorbent. Are just gigantic because literally
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: the state parties have to pay for the election. The
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: state helps provide the infrastructure, but I believe the parties
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: actually are for a long time actually had to essentially
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: reimburse the state for conducting the election. So that would
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 1: be to me, if you are a private organization and
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: you want to use state resources to hold your event,
• 2:07:00
  Speaker 1: then you've got to pay for it. So I think
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: this is a very viable legal argument. I'd like to
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: see it pursued harder. And I've been around these folks
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 1: and I know some of the lawyers that are that
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 1: are involved here, and I think this idea of an
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: equal protection argument is pretty strong and let's see. Let's
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: see how it goes. But you know, I I'll be
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: curious to see if Republicans hold on to their majorities
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: in Texas and they win everything. But it's close. I
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: wonder if they decide to try to close their primaries.
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: But I definitely definitely believe they're open, that they're open
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: to some strong legal arguments there. So I think it's
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: a strong legal argument and I'd like to see it pursued.
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: All right, last question for the show number five here,
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: Brian writes, Hey, I've listened to both of your points
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: on uncapping the House and non partisan primaries, and I
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: definitely see where you're coming from. Are there any members
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: of Congress who are willing to push for these My
• 2:08:03
  Speaker 1: concern is that since both changes threatened the two party
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: status quo, they'll just be shut down by the establishment.
• 2:08:09
  Speaker 1: If that's the reality, what's the next step for this movement?
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: Always look forward to the podcast, keep up the good work.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: So look, I actually think the uncapping the House should
• 2:08:19
  Speaker 1: get re energized. I write about it this week in
• 2:08:21
  Speaker 1: my substacks, and take a look again, I think I
• 2:08:24
  Speaker 1: find a different way to argue and fight. I think
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 1: the civil rights communities and civil rights groups around the
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: country should be it should be taking a look at
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: these proposals to uncap the house. You know, sometimes something
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: hasn't happened in such a long time, there's no memory
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: of it. And this is my fear that, like, there's
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: nobody in Congress who remembers a time when Congress used
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: to always right size itself based on the population of
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 1: the country. Right there is no member of Congress who
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: was there in nineteen twenty nine when they shut this
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: why when they put the hard cap on the house
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: at four hundred and thirty five. So that's my hope
• 2:09:08
  Speaker 1: that you'll just get new energy because ultimately, if we're
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: looking if the whole point of what we're trying to
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: do is to create a House of representatives that's representative
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 1: of the country, well then right now it is not.
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: And the only way too is not to fight over
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: who gets to sit in the set number of chairs.
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: Make the table bigger, right, So honestly, that's I think
• 2:09:38
  Speaker 1: that there is an opportunity here in in light of
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: what's happened with the gerrymandering wars that we're that are
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: only going to get worse. I mean, if if we
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: now have everybody basically decides that if you get the
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: trifecta in your state, then the first thing you're going
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 1: to do, like they did in Virginia, is just remap
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: everything for the maximum partisan advantage, where you're going to
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: make every member of Congress basically just sort of a widget,
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: Like I don't even know why we have human beings
• 2:10:14
  Speaker 1: if everything is just partisan numbers game like that. I
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 1: just think that that also should inspire other minorities, and
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: there's all sorts of minorities depending on the state you
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: live in. Right in Massachusetts it's simply Republicans that are
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: a minority who are underrepresented based on their numbers, or
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: in Louisiana the map that they're going to create, or
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 1: at Tennessee where Democrats are a minority and basically being
• 2:10:49
  Speaker 1: disenfranchised completely by that, uncapping the House goes a long
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: way to writing some of those wrongs. So that's I
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: guess that maybe all I have is hope on that,
• 2:11:05
  Speaker 1: but I'm trying to mainstream the idea a little bit better,
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 1: which is another reason why I think connecting it to
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: real actions that sort of are putting up barriers to
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: people actually being able to make it to Congress. Well,
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: you know this is this was, this is how the
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: founders intended on making sure you were represented. They knew
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: this was going to happen. So as the country got bigger,
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 1: they knew they had to expand the table. So the
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 1: idea that we are no longer paying attention to what
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 1: the founders wanted to me this should engage constitutional conservatives
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 1: who should be outraged that were not following the founder's intent.
• 2:11:48
  Speaker 1: And the founder's intent was to expand the size of
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 1: the House or representatives. As for all party primaries, you know,
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: it is about the best I can hope for is that,
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: you know, if we're going to continue to have reactionary relections,
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 1: meaning all we do is throw out what we don't like,
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: and it just keeps going back and forth, at some
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 1: point there's going to be frustration that says enough of
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: this stuff. And I do think there are enough people
• 2:12:22
  Speaker 1: who don't like both parties. Both parties are so unpopular.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: The idea of allowing the free market to sort of
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: have a little bit more say in our primary elections,
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: in our political party selections. I think is only going
• 2:12:37
  Speaker 1: to be seen as something particularly this younger generation who
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: is entering adulthood not liking either major party. I guess
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be hopeful that the opportunity to channel
• 2:12:54
  Speaker 1: their frustration of the parties to these two reform ideas
• 2:13:00
  Speaker 1: is more possible than ever. But yes, my analysis here
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 1: is hope. That's all I got for you. All right,
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed our live election night on Tuesday. Don't
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: forget our latest episode of Dynastic Jaydande, an I sports
• 2:13:20
  Speaker 1: history podcast where we do a deep dive everything you've
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: ever wanted to know about the Pittsburgh Steelers. That is
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: anywhere you get your podcasts, wherever you listen to your podcast,
• 2:13:31
  Speaker 1: And please, if you enjoy Dynastic separately, like and subscribe
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: to that feed. I know you're going to get you
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: You're used to be putting it in this feed, but
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 1: just you know, listening to it here doesn't help us
• 2:13:45
  Speaker 1: grow our sports history audience, and we want to We
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 1: want to grow that audience too, So please take a
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 1: look at that. Like I said, I got a new
• 2:13:51
  Speaker 1: substack up if you want to check it out, and
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 1: if you don't check it out there. It'll be up
• 2:13:56
  Speaker 1: on newsphere in the next twenty four hours and with
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: that see it twenty fours Yah