Latest / Specialty Matcha Podcast / Interview with Matcha Yu Tea, Erin (audio improved)

Transcript

Interview with Matcha Yu Tea, Erin (audio improved) · Specialty Matcha Podcast

0:00
Hello and welcome to the Specialty Match Podcast.
0:02
My name is Ryan. This is my Coho Sungjun, who
0:04
also goes by Sam. Hello, hello.
0:06
And we're the cofounders of Sanko Matcha Products.
0:08
Yeah. We launched this podcast to
0:10
discuss our learning journey, Matcha, share startup stories
0:13
and interview experts. And today we have Erin joining
0:16
us from Matcha U Welcome, Erin. Hello, thanks for having me.
0:19
You're excited. Great to finally have you on,
0:23
especially after having the chance to meet you in person in
0:25
Kyoto. Yeah, wasn't that a wonderful
0:27
day? I mean a little wet and we did
0:30
try and have matcha at a famous temple, but we ended up still
0:34
having a great day and enjoying some matcha together.
0:38
Yeah, yeah, it was fun, rain and all.
0:41
Yep. But it it was a really magical
0:43
time in Kyoto because I feel like everyone was just like
0:46
descending on the city, like a lot like everyone in Macha felt
0:50
like was there for harvest season.
0:52
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, Everyone you spoke to,
0:54
you're like, oh, I know them or I've heard of them.
0:56
And yeah, it's nice. And people, I guess, who work in
1:01
the industry value that time and they know it's a really pivotal
1:05
time to visit for various reasons.
1:08
Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.
1:10
Hopefully it happens again next year too.
1:12
Yeah, I'm hoping to get back next day too.
1:14
I have to admit though, because it is such a busy time for the
1:19
tea world over there, it almost feels like maybe they don't have
1:24
the time to host us, if you know what I mean.
1:28
So I was thinking maybe another time of the year would be also a
1:32
great idea. Yeah, all the magic.
1:35
All the magic happens in May. It'll be very different also
1:40
without the mayflies. Exactly.
1:42
Absolutely. So we'd love to learn more about
1:45
your background and founding Macha you one of the most
1:50
established players in the the matcha scene in Australia, going
1:54
all the way back to 2017. Yeah, definitely much of you.
1:58
There's a bit of a back story, but I'll try and keep it
2:00
concise. So I love Japan growing up,
2:03
probably from about the age of 10 to be honest, because I did a
2:06
school project on Japan in primary school.
2:09
But then when I entered high school, in the first year of
2:11
high school, I was given the choice to study Japanese.
2:14
So I took that and just went down a real rabbit hole with
2:19
Japanese culture. The more I learned the language,
2:21
the more I learned about the culture.
2:22
I was just captivated and then really wanted to get to Japan as
2:27
soon as I could. So in the my early 20s, I
2:31
visited Japan actually to attend a music festival called Fuji
2:36
Rock, which is held so-called in Fuji National Park.
2:41
And it's, it's got, it's quite similar to Glastonbury in the
2:45
lineup. However, it's, I think a fast
2:49
and furious setting and it's just a lovely festival to visit.
2:52
So I went there for three days with a friend and I also spent
2:56
some time in Tokyo just walking the streets and and taking it
3:00
all in and it was fantastic. So that was the first trip in
3:04
2003 and then I went back. I did go back the next year and
3:10
then it was a pattern. About every two to three years I
3:12
would go back for a holiday. And then it got to about 2010.
3:17
And I really wanted to explore, you know, living in Japan,
3:22
experiencing daily life. And so I applied for a working
3:26
holiday visa and I lived in Kyoto between, yeah, 2010 and
3:31
2011, which was, I still pinch myself, I think how lucky was I
3:37
especially to live in Kyoto at that time, because it is, you
3:41
know, it wasn't the time of mass tourism or anything like that.
3:45
So I felt very lucky to be riding my bike.
3:48
So bike around the streets of Kyoto and, and discovering local
3:52
life, visiting different temples and shrines.
3:54
And yeah, it was a really special time.
3:57
So what happened there was I was teaching English, as you do, a
4:01
lady came in and she prepared matcha for me.
4:05
She was a student, it was 1 to one lessons, and she prepared
4:09
this matcha for me and explained that her father was an eighth
4:14
generation tea farmer in Uji and he'd won awards from the emperor
4:21
over 20 times for the quality of his picture.
4:24
So I was just blown away by that.
4:26
And the matcha, of course, was amazing.
4:29
She was coming in to help with the family business for export,
4:33
to learn English. And yeah, that was where the
4:36
seed was planted. That's punning.
4:38
That is some serious serendipity getting to meet someone from one
4:42
of the would you families. Yeah, it's so lucky.
4:45
And then I do remember after that lesson, just walking out,
4:49
like on the streets of it was a katasuma, shijo katasuma in
4:53
Kyoto when I felt something really special here.
4:57
And I feel when I go back home to Australia, I need to kind of
5:01
somehow tell her story and her family's story.
5:05
So it was a really pivotal moment.
5:08
Yeah. And then I came back to
5:09
Australia. I was actually going to open a
5:11
matcha desserts cafe, like a parfait cafe.
5:15
OK. You might have seen in Kyoto,
5:17
there's so many parfait cafes and.
5:19
The famous ones matcha Nana or something like that.
5:23
Yeah, there's Nana's green. Tea.
5:26
Yeah. Oh, Nana's green tea.
5:27
So a concept similar to that. Yeah, that's it.
5:31
And Suji, obviously, that's a famous, most of the major
5:40
Japanese tea brands have like a cafe like that, you know,
5:43
dessert cafe. So yeah, I really wanted to try
5:47
that. I love that experience in Kyoto,
5:49
like going with my friends to have parfait and a hot cup of
5:52
hodji cha with the with the dessert.
5:55
But I actually was a bit, yeah, intimidated by starting a cafe
6:00
in 2011. I felt like it was a bit too
6:04
soon for the market and I had no hospitality experience, so it
6:10
was going to be a big risk, like, you know, remortgaging my
6:13
apartment, all this kind of thing.
6:16
So I kind of shelved it. I went, no, I think it's not the
6:20
wise like business decision right now.
6:22
And then I went back to my job in music.
6:24
I've worked in the music industry for a long time, but it
6:27
was when I was in on maternity leave.
6:29
I really thought about it seriously.
6:32
I could see much. It was like gaining traction,
6:34
but the quality wasn't great. So I thought I've got got to
6:37
give this a go and I ran a crab funding campaign to test the
6:41
market and viability and then it was successful so I launched.
6:47
That's awesome. Yeah, and originally I did sell
6:50
the Emperor award-winning tea. It wasn't cheap.
6:53
I'm talking like up towards $800 a kilo Australia.
6:59
OK, so I don't know what that is.
7:01
You. It's over 500.
7:03
Yeah. So said Tiffany.
7:05
Like hand picked much amazing. And I was just committed to
7:11
support her family and give this tea an opportunity to be enjoyed
7:15
in Australia. But I mean, so then price
7:19
increases now I kind of think, oh, we'll compare to that.
7:24
It's not too bad. Let's say you know you've been
7:28
in the tea game long enough when you start thinking, oh like 8
7:31
years ago, like the prices of all all, actually really all
7:35
tea, you're like, whoa, I missed those days.
7:37
Yeah, that's right. But yeah, so I I chose to stop
7:42
importing that quite a few years ago because I did decide to move
7:47
into more organic matcha. And that being from Uji, it
7:51
wasn't, it was conventional matcha.
7:53
So yeah, I kind of changed paths, but I still import her
7:57
invention. The daughter of the Emperor
8:00
award-winning tea farmer, she made this matcha shaker, which I
8:04
think we talked about in Kyoto, and it's just a shaker with a
8:08
special lid in it. The small plastic shakers.
8:12
Similar. Yeah, it's more like a cylinder.
8:14
It's about this big, but yeah, I still sell those.
8:18
Which are her invention. Yeah.
8:20
Awesome. Yeah, very.
8:21
Cool. So wow.
8:23
Sorry, Sam, I don't know if you were gonna say that's good.
8:26
Oh, I was just gonna comment that that was like almost eight
8:29
years ago. It's almost a decade of
8:31
experience. Yeah, it's crazy how?
8:35
Yeah. How have you seen like the
8:36
landscape of, let's say, how people appreciate Petition Great
8:40
Mata? Was it different back then?
8:43
Like how has people's preference changed over time?
8:46
Yeah. Well, I do think just in the
8:49
last year, I've noticed that people are getting more
8:53
interested in the cultivars and the re growing regions and, and,
9:00
and different ways to describe the taste and the flavor
9:03
profile, which I didn't really see before.
9:07
I just think people weren't asking those questions.
9:10
And even myself, like I I'm learning more about that side of
9:14
things and realizing, yeah, different culture bars taste
9:18
differently and, and different regions have different tastes as
9:21
well. Yeah, I think there's just so
9:24
much more yearning for knowledge about, yeah, exactly what how
9:32
it's made and everything what what, what was really apparent
9:35
to me. So I did a a large market here
9:39
called Finders Keepers and I did it in October 2023.
9:45
And almost every other person I had to explain what was matcha
9:51
and how do you make it and what does it taste like and all of
9:54
that. And now two years later, I
9:57
barely have to answer any questions.
10:00
No one. Everyone knows what it is.
10:03
They kind of know the tools. So that's just two years, Less
10:07
than two years on, and I can already see the education has
10:10
lifted, which is really cool. And it saves a lot of energy
10:14
from us, you know? I have a question, how do you
10:17
approach that? Because my biggest challenge
10:19
when talking to people about matcha, like random people, like
10:23
friends of friends or like family friends, you don't know
10:26
where someone's at. Yeah, it's condescend a little.
10:30
I find it a little condescending to explain to someone what
10:32
matcha is if they already like have deep preferences and they
10:36
know what cultivars are. So like, how do you, when you
10:39
have so many conversations, how do you like pinpoint where
10:42
they're at and then kind of meet them there?
10:44
It's something that I struggle quite a bit talking with, you
10:48
know, like in like random daily encounters with with this type
10:51
of thing. Oh yeah, probably just to let
10:55
see see where their question leads you, I guess.
10:59
So if they like some people do still say what is mature and
11:04
that that's a bit of a reality check for me.
11:07
And I think, oh, wow, OK, so there is part of the market that
11:11
still just doesn't have any idea, but they're interested.
11:15
So that's great. And then I think the the
11:17
opportunity is there and the challenge to not give them too
11:21
much information to overwhelm, but to make it welcoming and
11:26
something that they feel just not intimidated by.
11:30
Yeah, I guess you just get the certain questions not that many
11:34
people ask, but some do about what areas it comes from.
11:38
Is it first harvest, first flush?
11:40
What's the difference between like what is what is a
11:43
ceremonial grade and what is a kind of everyday grade?
11:47
And yeah, you just, I think I've learned, I used to give so much
11:51
information to people just asking a couple of questions and
11:55
it could be quite, yeah, a bit overwhelming.
11:58
So I just try to scale it back a bit.
12:01
But yeah, there's so much knowledge, like certain levels
12:05
of knowledge out there, right? So you don't want to be, yeah,
12:08
snobby about it. But yeah, I know what you mean.
12:12
It's hard when someone says what is matching, like, really?
12:15
Because you're just in this matcha bubble all the time.
12:18
Like, are you kidding? You do not have any idea what it
12:21
is. Wow.
12:22
But that's exciting. I see that really, like, as a
12:25
challenge and and I'm like, great.
12:27
This is like, and, and especially when I have a market
12:30
and I sample the tea and it's the first time people try
12:34
matcha, I feel so honored about that.
12:37
Like, I think, wow, like I'm your first experience.
12:40
This is so cool. How do you get the immediate
12:43
feedback so it's like. Yeah.
12:46
It's like it's a cool, like full circle kind of.
12:49
Yeah, I've realized those markets are so great for
12:52
sampling because when you have an online, primarily e-commerce
12:56
business, you can describe things all you want.
12:59
You can put photos and videos all you want, but you can never
13:02
express the taste. You can never convey that on a
13:06
website. So to have people try it in
13:08
person, I think even if they don't buy it on the day, they
13:12
can keep that in their memory bank and think, OK, I know what
13:15
that tastes like. I'll go and order it, you know.
13:18
Yeah, the first hand experience is super important.
13:22
We recently learned something very interesting from industry
13:27
friend telling us that, you know, this is actually how the
13:31
chashi's remember the taste of each matcha.
13:33
They don't necessarily have the vocabularies to describe the
13:38
tea, but they have the memories of like, oh, that tastes like
13:42
that tea or that tastes like that cultivar.
13:45
But none necessarily have this like this deconstruct framework
13:49
to describe the flavors which which was very interesting to
13:52
learn about. That would be such AI know, you
13:55
mentioned on the podcast before such an interesting world to
13:57
dive into the secret chashi world because yeah, how do they
14:03
keep a blend consistent from year to year?
14:06
Is it like a recipe when that when you make a cake, is it like
14:09
2 kilos of this, a kilo of that? You know, like how does that all
14:13
work to become a blend? Because a lot of like obviously
14:17
teas are blended. The consistency, yeah, it's,
14:20
it's a very specialist area. Yes, I'm so curious too.
14:25
It would be a dream if we can get a chashi on the podcast one
14:28
day. I'm.
14:29
Sure you will. I'm sure you will try.
14:32
A whole season, yeah, that'd be good.
14:36
Get a couple different ones, different levels.
14:38
I think it goes through. They're called like Dan's,
14:40
right? Or Dan's, I don't know how to
14:41
say it, the belts or whatever. It's like one through 10 or
14:46
something Done, Yeah. Have you met anyone?
14:49
Have you met anyone in Japan? Chashi's.
14:52
Not. That not that you know of we.
14:54
Knew of at the time at least, so maybe we have, but we didn't
14:59
know if we did. Yeah, they don't reveal their
15:01
true identity. But we've talked to enough
15:05
people now that worked with them.
15:07
I'd say we've talked to five people that have had like direct
15:11
encounters. So we're slowly learning, but
15:14
it's a little indirect. Yeah, yeah.
15:18
You're doing well. Yep.
15:19
So Australia's pretty interesting because it probably,
15:24
and I hope this isn't too controversial with our what
15:27
international audience Australia like has one of the most
15:30
sophisticated coffee cultures in the world, from what I
15:33
understand. Like you guys have really taken
15:35
the lead and even like I moved to New York in 2016, all of the
15:39
best cafes or all Australian run.
15:42
It was like nothing, right? And they had Australian owners
15:45
and like they had amazing coffee programs, they had fantastic
15:50
food and they just created this vibe, right?
15:54
Like, and before that, I feel like New York only had like this
15:56
brunch vibe and like all of a sudden had this very
15:59
sophisticated Australian cafe culture, which I've also
16:03
experienced, you know, travelling to the Middle East.
16:06
I feel like there are a lot of them.
16:07
I've heard like they basically own Bali, but it's like a really
16:12
a big cultural export. And I know that Melbourne is
16:15
like one of the centers of that. So such a rich coffee culture.
16:19
How have you seen them embrace matcha as a product and how is
16:23
it represented over there? And where has it been really
16:26
good and really bad? Like what?
16:28
What's the spectrum look like? Good question.
16:31
I was going to add as well. I think in Tokyo there's quite a
16:33
few Melbourne owned coffee shops from from what I've heard.
16:37
So I don't drink coffee. I did, I used to drink it many,
16:41
many years ago. But I am quite caffeine
16:43
sensitive so much as good coffee, too much.
16:46
But I'll try and answer it as best I can from observing and
16:49
having people like friends that enjoy coffee.
16:52
Yeah, it's a really strong coffee culture here,
16:55
particularly because there's a very big Italian demographic
17:01
from like afterward to World War 2, a lot of Italians and other
17:05
European cultures, but migrated here and set up in Melbourne.
17:09
So there's that part of the like the coffee culture is there, you
17:15
know, for espresso and like really authentic hardcore
17:19
coffee. And then there's a whole other
17:21
bunch of like coffee roasters that are excellent.
17:27
They yeah, it's it's just some of them are chains, but some of
17:33
them are just individual run, individually run.
17:36
They as far as matcha goes, I think they have shield away from
17:41
it for the most part until recently.
17:44
So probably in the last 12 months or so, I think super
17:48
recent. OK, I think so from customer
17:53
demand they have now looked at considering mature or look the
17:58
matcha that they were using a lot of those coffee shops
18:02
because coffee was their hero product.
18:05
The matcha would be to be honest, yeah, like either pre
18:08
sugared or they would yeah, most for the most part, it would be
18:12
like a sugar matcha mix that people would be using, you know,
18:16
and making it too Milky and all that kind of thing.
18:19
But now I think because customer demand is there for the high
18:22
quality much that they they're taking it more seriously.
18:26
And I do service like my product to cafes and I have noticed a
18:31
lot more coffee shops ordering it and like mine is quite
18:34
premium priced. But so that means, you know,
18:37
they're obviously value valuing the quality.
18:39
There are some still, like, coffee chains that are doing the
18:43
cheap varieties. But look, maybe that's serving
18:45
their customers just fine. Even like McDonald's has
18:48
released an iced strawberry matcha.
18:51
Yeah, here in Melbourne. Just not, not across the board,
18:54
like in limited stores. And it's really interesting
18:57
because they dropped that release right around like the
19:00
middle of the end of last year's harvest and this year's halves.
19:03
I'm like, where are they getting that mucha?
19:08
But I think it's like Starbucks. It's quite sweet, sugary, but
19:11
it's serving a particular customer.
19:13
Probably not from Japan. Yeah, but I always used to think
19:17
about that perform Matcha had the boom.
19:19
How will Matcha penetrate this really strong coffee culture in
19:24
Melbourne? But I think it just walks kind
19:27
of alongside it. It doesn't overtake it.
19:31
I think quite often it's totally different types of customers.
19:35
And what I've been noticing is there's so many Asian run cafes
19:42
popping up in Melbourne. Every time I open Instagram
19:45
there's a new one. And they're the ones that have
19:47
driven a really change in the quality of matcha and what, you
19:52
know, people expect because they're kind of replicating what
19:55
you get in Japan, really that kind of experience.
19:59
Yeah, I hope that very. Interesting.
20:02
How is the preparation scene? Do you see most people like
20:05
whisking it? Are they preparing those like
20:07
concentrate syrup things or like what's the the?
20:12
Blender. Yeah, that went viral.
20:14
There's a cafe. You should check it on an
20:15
Instagram sneaker lab in Sydney. Or the one that shocks it in
20:19
the. Yeah, I think.
20:20
I see it. Yeah, I saw just just a new
20:22
video showing a blind taste test and there's we did like a staff
20:26
panel and their entire staff preferred the blended matcha.
20:30
I saw that was a very. Compelling video, actually.
20:33
It was very, very controversial that video.
20:38
People would just say it, yeah, like, bewildered by it.
20:42
So mostly the Japanese cafes and other Asian run cafes are
20:46
whisking to order. OK.
20:49
But there are others that are doing batch, batch making and
20:53
they'll make the match in the morning with maybe a bit of
20:56
sugar syrup or something and then they'll add it into the
20:59
latte. I guess it depends on their
21:01
turnover, how many they need to service.
21:04
But I think the customers are OK, are prepared to wait for a
21:08
freshly whist matcha. There is a cafe that's open that
21:12
has I think about 5 Ishi uses in their store in Melbourne.
21:16
Yeah. You posted about it.
21:18
Yeah, Matcha Cobalt. Yeah.
21:20
And they they've got a whole production line, but it's all
21:23
ham waste. And yeah, it's really cool.
21:25
That's awesome, Super cool actually.
21:28
I've never thought about this but I'll ask it because it just
21:31
popped into my head. Why do they pre sweeten the
21:35
batch brewed concentrates? Is it for stability reasons?
21:39
Like maybe it suspends better because it makes it more like
21:42
thick and viscous? Or is it just to save time
21:45
adding sweetener? Is it a taste thing?
21:47
I've actually always wondered why they always add sugar.
21:50
Yeah, I should ask that question because my guess is it prevents
21:55
it to oxidize as quickly may perhaps than just putting it in
22:01
water. It could be time saving too.
22:03
Yeah, instead of having to add it in later, maybe it's like a
22:06
bit of taste control. So they kind of get a flavor
22:09
that they are happy with for that concentrate and then
22:14
they're adding the milk, milk in to create like a consist, A
22:17
consistent flavor. It's a really good question,
22:20
Laurie. Yeah, it's.
22:22
Could be for optimization of suspension quality.
22:26
Because after you add sugar, right, the liquid turns more
22:29
biscuits. Yeah.
22:30
So the suspension is probably better.
22:33
Yeah, I think I would always be concerned about oxidize,
22:37
oxidizing the matcha by pre pre making it, if you know what I
22:42
mean. But yeah, there must be
22:44
reasoning. I wonder if they do the same
22:46
sugar content as those pump syrups is then it's like a
22:50
really easily swappable ingredient with recipes and
22:54
stuff like you know, when they put in a pump or two of
22:57
something like and then it's like all kind the universe of
23:01
like understanding like how sweeteners are being introduced
23:05
into the beverages. Yeah.
23:07
That's just an idea, but. I guess to like speaking about
23:11
that, putting the sugar in the concentrate, I mean that removes
23:14
the option for the customer to say I don't want sugar, you
23:17
know? Yeah.
23:18
So I think, yeah, that from that perspective, it's probably a
23:22
better idea to just whisk to order.
23:25
But we all know that that's a a bit of a challenge in itself
23:28
when you've got serious volume coming through, no?
23:31
Absolutely. Do we use Asahi or uji hikari?
23:34
For this matcha latte, yeah. It's not way back into that
23:39
controversy 0. No.
23:41
I was scrolling through Instagram, I forget who it was,
23:45
but someone finally did it. They bought a can of Suji San's
23:50
competition, I think it was their competition Asahi cultivar
23:53
and made a Gelato which I was like wow that's bold.
23:57
That's like it's one expensive much of Gelato.
24:02
Yeah, I bet it tastes amazing fine dining there.
24:06
Yeah, it's like, oh, I don't know how I feel about that.
24:09
But you know, if given the opportunity, I would like to
24:12
taste it. That's right.
24:14
Yeah. I mean, I'm guilty of it too.
24:16
Like I drink my really high end matcha, you know, from Kagoshima
24:22
first flush, like really award-winning, amazing.
24:25
And I put it in a latte sometimes because it tastes
24:27
great. Yeah, it tastes good.
24:31
Very. Simple, actually.
24:32
Like, when it comes to this sort of thing, this controversy, I
24:35
find a little silly because, like, yeah, that's good.
24:40
Yeah, like sometimes I'll drink it straight up, but sometimes I,
24:43
I just feel like, oh, I'd like a really high quality matcha.
24:48
Yeah, a matcha latte. Yeah, it's good in ice too.
24:51
I find that those high quality matcha really shine in an ice
24:55
format. Yeah, yeah, I guess it just
24:58
changes the flavor again, doesn't it?
25:00
When you when you have hot or cold, it's totally different.
25:05
Yeah, Express is different thing.
25:07
I know in Thailand MTCH everything by default on the
25:11
menu except for their Usucha menu is all on ice and it's all
25:15
single origin single cultivar stuff on ice.
25:19
As I've moved through the menu over the many times I've been
25:22
there, it is a very different experience than drinking it hot.
25:26
It expresses very different flavors and it you're right,
25:30
it's and it's equally delicious. Yes, yeah.
25:34
I find it generally more like mommy savory because they do
25:39
like cold temperature extraction or even ice extraction for like
25:44
Gokul. And that's like a thing in Japan
25:48
too. And yeah, I agree, it tastes
25:51
very different. Yeah, even the difference in
25:53
water temperature, like sometimes I do 70°C, sometimes I
25:57
do 80°C. I'm not sure what the equivalent
26:00
is in Fahrenheit, but that is a difference, the 10° difference.
26:04
It's you do notice a flavor difference.
26:06
You know, I tend to go, I tend to go more with 70.
26:09
I think a lower temperature brings out a bit more flavor.
26:13
But yeah, each each to their own, you know?
26:15
Yeah, absolutely. So your sourcing trip was pretty
26:21
epic. I think you went to Fukuoka and
26:23
you went to Shizuoka, right? And then?
26:27
Yes, I ended up not getting to Shizuoka, unfortunately.
26:31
So what I was saying earlier, my contact there just off the back
26:35
of Golden Week, he was slammed like and he felt really bad, but
26:41
he said, I really don't think I can accommodate your visit right
26:47
now, which is a shame and I was disappointed.
26:50
But that's the thing with this period, I guess you have to
26:54
respect their workload and it's all good and welfare like we are
26:58
customers like we're buying volume from them.
27:01
And but I don't think that gives us the right to just force our
27:05
ways into their world when it they're at peak capacity and
27:10
they're dealing with this shortage and the harvest.
27:13
So I really had to think about it.
27:15
OK, take the ego out of it, Erin.
27:17
And just not ego, but like, my desire to be there and film
27:22
content and connect. I had to really go.
27:25
No, actually, they're under a lot of stress right now.
27:28
I have to respect that. And at the end of the day, our
27:31
supply chain is still secure. It's all good.
27:35
So I did. Yeah, I did go to football.
27:37
I went to ya, man, which is where the tea headquarters is.
27:40
I attended A Shincha festival which was lovely and as you know
27:44
I was travelling with my 8 year old daughter so it just made the
27:47
best of the time we had. She came into the much effect
27:51
the factory with me and. So cool.
27:53
Put the white, you know, uniform and shower cap on it was it was
27:58
really nice to be able to show her and I felt very grateful to
28:02
the tea business to allow a child to come in as well, you
28:05
know, very accommodating family run business.
28:08
So that's that obviously makes makes sense.
28:11
And yeah, like that, that was the third time.
28:15
No, no, the second sorry, second time I've been in Yum air.
28:18
But yeah, I've been doing business with this company for
28:21
five years now. So it's lovely Yeah, to have a
28:24
very solid relationship and I know it's it's very reliable.
28:31
So I think last year I ordered over half a ton of matcha with
28:37
them. Wild, like when they told me
28:40
that because, you know, you order like 40 kilos, 50 kilos
28:43
and then it all adds up and you think what, half a ton?
28:48
It's crazy. So I, I really like they're part
28:51
of the success of my business. So I couldn't do it without
28:54
them. You know, I really, and I think
28:56
it's so valuable to, to be there in person and show your
29:00
dedication to the relationship. Very Japanese kind of culture,
29:03
you know, I think that speaks volumes to, to go and make that
29:08
effort. Yeah.
29:10
No, absolutely. Have you been sourcing from yame
29:14
in the very beginning of Matcha you?
29:17
No, yeah, recently. So when I was deciding to move
29:21
towards organic matcha, then I, I think they actually approached
29:25
me. Yeah.
29:26
And they sent sometimes, you know, you get them reaching out
29:30
and they are offered to send samples.
29:32
So I'm like, sure, let's do it. And the the samples were great
29:37
and I thought I'll just try. I actually went back to my
29:40
emails recently of that time and I was ordering, this is quite
29:44
cute. I was ordering like 3 kilos of
29:47
matcha. You know, I'll just commit to
29:50
three now. And now it's like 50.
29:53
It's a bit different. Yeah.
29:56
But yeah, so their tea, the tea I was sourcing, so it was, it
30:00
actually came from Kagoshima and I went there a couple of years
30:04
ago in Kiroshima and visited the farms and then it comes back to
30:09
Yamaha to get refined and ground.
30:14
So yeah, I have been like Kagoshima matcha has been my
30:18
main sourcing area for years now.
30:21
I've just made a decision to source from Yammer.
30:25
So I'm going to have some Yammer lunch and now which is cool.
30:30
Yeah, but it won't be organic. I've had to go, which is fine.
30:34
I had to choose conventional because and I respect all the
30:39
price increases. I understand why they are what
30:42
they are. But yeah, it's the organic
30:44
unfortunate has become a bit cost prohibitive, prohibitive
30:48
for my kind of main selling tea. That makes sense.
30:54
I've heard that because they can't harvest twice.
30:58
I think most of the organic farms in Kagoshima, it's all
31:01
first flush mostly isn't it? Yeah, that's true.
31:04
You. Can't use as much fertilizer
31:05
because it's. Yes.
31:07
You can't use pesticides. That's right.
31:09
Yeah. And I think, yeah, obviously the
31:11
tea auctions this year, you know, the price of tensions
31:14
blown out. And I think with the yummy
31:17
matcha that I'm going to be bringing in the tea company I
31:20
source that from, they have a bit more control with the
31:23
pricing on that because it's coming from their farm and the
31:26
local area. So they're not having to worry
31:29
about the bidding at auction and all that kind of thing for that,
31:32
for the organic matcha. And thankfully we're not super
31:35
strict here in Australia like I believe Europe is quite
31:39
challenging if you want to bring in non organic matcha.
31:43
Is that the case, Ryan? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:45
That's what I've heard. It's it's not easy the EU
31:48
regulations, but I've also heard that it's a bit more complex and
31:51
that the they're conservative in what they kind of screen out,
31:58
but they apparently haven't done very much research or
32:00
investigated how safe certain things are that are, you know,
32:05
in non organic products, because tea is not an important
32:08
commodity for the EU because they're not a producer.
32:12
So I've heard some criticism of the EU, but they don't they
32:16
haven't put in the effort to make a real decision.
32:20
So they're just saying no to a bunch of stuff, which is
32:22
probably safe. But that's that's what I've
32:25
heard. Yeah.
32:25
So it'll be interesting to see how the price pricing will
32:29
impact Europe because of typically from what I can see
32:33
organic matcha is priced higher. Yeah.
32:36
So I'm apologies. I know that's where you are it.
32:40
Makes. It hard and then and then I feel
32:42
for like American tea businesses because of the tariffs.
32:46
I think, wow, I mean. Oh yeah, you know.
32:50
We have to deal with price increases, but the US have to
32:53
deal with the tariffs on top of that.
32:55
And I just wonder, like, how are the businesses going to keep
33:00
viable with these increases? Yeah.
33:04
It's really challenging as a consumer.
33:07
I'm grateful for direct, direct to consumer companies where I
33:11
can like personally order direct from Japan, but you know, but
33:15
even that's like ultra expensive.
33:17
So all these local players who've built up the market and
33:20
played into all the success and all this demand for matcha now
33:24
have like some really challenging decisions to make on
33:27
price and quality. And yeah.
33:31
Yeah. And I guess that's a part of the
33:34
concern of a lot of farmers in Japan, like the kind of deal
33:38
this hype being kind of not going to last for a longer
33:42
period of time, so. Yeah.
33:44
We will see. I think, yeah, the demands
33:48
always going to be there, but it just will become more of a
33:52
luxury product because with the price increases, like, yeah, not
33:57
everyone's going to be in that, you know, price range where they
34:02
can afford it. Yeah.
34:04
So it almost becomes a tea of privilege or something.
34:07
But I hope not, like. And also I think about areas
34:11
like parts of Asia where the the living, you know, the wages are
34:16
a lot less. How are those people?
34:18
Are they able to enjoy high quality lunch?
34:21
I hope they still can. Like I hope we all can.
34:26
It's. It's a hard, I was talking with
34:29
someone recently who was just kind of beginning their matcha
34:31
journey and was thinking about opening a business and they were
34:35
really trying to think through like first principles, like how
34:38
do we make matcha more accessible?
34:41
Like at a price point that like it could be someone's daily
34:45
drink. And like, I was trying to, I was
34:48
actually really struggling to figure out like what are all of
34:51
the contributing factors and like, how can like people like
34:57
manage through them to bring a, a high quality product into the
35:00
future? I think right now you can
35:02
probably for the next few years, but I hope that Japan really can
35:06
increase the volume so that it doesn't just become something
35:09
that's, you know, kind of like what it was 150 years ago,
35:12
something that you had to have a lot of money and put in a lot of
35:15
effort to to buy and to consume. Yeah, it's so, I know.
35:20
It's so wonderful that it's become accessible and like, what
35:24
if you think about the health benefits side of things?
35:26
Like I love nothing more than my hearing a lot of particularly
35:30
teenage girls, probably driven by TikTok have instead of
35:35
starting their journey with coffee.
35:37
Like I think back when I was younger, like that's when you
35:40
started exploring coffee and you're studying for exams and
35:43
all of that kind of thing. Teenage daughters, girls are
35:46
turning to mature and they're not really entertaining coffee.
35:51
And I think from a health perspective, that is so great
35:54
because it's so much more gentler on your body.
35:59
Yeah. For your nervous system and your
36:01
hormone balancing and especially for women, and I think, yeah.
36:06
And the caffeine is that slow, beautiful release.
36:09
It's not going to get you really feeling hectic before your exam
36:12
and anxious and I think that's really wonderful that the new
36:15
the new generation has had access to matcha for their
36:19
health as well, you know. Wow, that's so powerful.
36:24
I never connected the dots that way because that's where, excuse
36:28
me, that's where preferences are formed.
36:30
Like right in these adolescent years when you're just beginning
36:34
to like get past your childhood phase of not consuming much
36:37
caffeine. And then like, you know, you're
36:39
studying, you're pulling all nighters, you're partying,
36:42
whatever, like you need some caffeine and you're entering
36:45
adulthood and there's a whole new generation that's building.
36:49
You know, I, I really dislike this Condon con.
36:52
I can't say condescension of these people like talking about
36:56
matcha girlys on TikTok and buying all of this stuff because
36:59
it it's exactly. I've never thought about it that
37:02
way until you said it. It's just a whole new generation
37:05
doing it their way and having it become part of their life and it
37:09
is much healthier than coffee. And like, I don't think this
37:13
matcha trend is transient. I think we are in the very seed
37:17
stages of what could be in like a gigantic wave of matcha if the
37:23
supply can keep up at a reasonable price.
37:27
I I agree, yeah. And they're the biggest like not
37:31
talking about social media influence, but teenage girls
37:35
particularly and guys, they're the biggest influence on their
37:38
parents, like on what they purchase.
37:41
So they're, you know, like they're all getting in in their
37:44
parents ear going. And I have so many, as I said,
37:47
like going to doing these major markets.
37:49
I have so many mothers come up and they say my daughter keeps
37:53
telling me to get into matcha and I need to, you know, try
37:56
this. And and all the daughters, like
37:58
pushing the mother to the front of the stall.
38:00
Try this, mom. So I can see it already.
38:04
I can see it happening. And often the moms or the dads,
38:06
they're the ones handing out their wallet and their cards to
38:08
buy the matcha. It's really nice.
38:11
Yeah. Making it at home, the ritual
38:14
with their family. And I love it.
38:17
You know, this is really a new culture, like the entire
38:21
generation, like, you know, living in this reality, which is
38:25
going to be the new norm, right? Like it's no longer a hype
38:29
anymore. And isn't it interesting how
38:32
sorry that the it's being driven by the youth globally, but not
38:37
so much in Japan? The global youth in Japan are
38:41
right into coffee culture because it's kind of come from
38:44
the West, you know, and it's almost the opposite has happened
38:47
outside of Japan. Yeah, yeah, it's it's the same
38:52
thing in Asia. Like we've seen it in Korea, in
38:55
China, in Taiwan, like all the young people here, they're like
38:59
all into coffee. And outside of Asia, everyone is
39:02
into tea. Like it's like we switch spot.
39:06
Yeah, have you even heard? In Japan, they feel like the
39:09
matcha boom is similar to what happened with bubble tea, and
39:12
they think it'll go away. And I think what, Really.
39:15
You're crazy. I don't think it's the same.
39:17
It's not. No, because I remember there's a
39:21
big discussion 10 years ago about all of these sugary drinks
39:25
for Starbucks that they were making the refreshers, they were
39:28
making pumpkin spice lattes. And I remember watching just
39:32
some generic nighttime news clip of like someone in old school
39:37
media saying that what they're really doing, it's a marketing
39:39
strategy, get a bunch of young people to basically present
39:43
coffee in a dessert format and then kind of lure them in.
39:47
And then they become the next generation of coffee consumers.
39:50
And they did such a good job of like taking a very adult
39:56
beverage, meaning like coffee. And you know, it's bitter.
39:59
Like like 20-30 years ago it was bitter.
40:01
It was dark. And like, you probably like, it
40:04
probably took a while to acquire the preference to like it and
40:08
make it so easy to approach for a new generation of people.
40:11
And much is going through a very similar journey.
40:14
And it's such, I never thought it's such a healthier
40:16
relationship. And the functional benefits,
40:19
people want a better for you product.
40:21
People want, you know, that sustainable caffeine boost when
40:25
you're pulling all nighters, you know, trying to study or, or
40:29
that type of thing. Yeah, the amount of the feedback
40:32
I get, just, it makes me feel so happy that people are benefiting
40:37
just like I do from drinking it. Just all the different things
40:42
they tell me their hair is glossy, their skin's glowing.
40:45
They can, they can sleep better, they can concentrate, they're
40:50
more productive, all the things and it just, it just makes me,
40:54
yeah, just so happy. It's it's great that people feel
40:57
that way because for a lot of people coffee does not make you
41:01
feel that way. It.
41:04
Tastes great. I'm not dissing coffee for the
41:07
reaction. The reaction on the body is
41:09
quite different, yeah. I went to a coffee conference a
41:12
couple of years ago and I think it was some doctor nutritionist,
41:16
I forget what their background was, but they presented a study
41:19
on how we metabolize and digest caffeine and I was shocked.
41:23
The slowest caffeine metabolizers are four times
41:26
slower than the fastest. So there's huge variance, just,
41:31
like, genetically about our ability to handle caffeine and
41:35
how it affects us. And like, coffee is probably too
41:38
much, too fast for like, yeah, they're like 2030% of the
41:43
population. Yeah, I thankfully am on the
41:48
fast caffeine metabolizer side. And it's important when you work
41:53
in Maja, you need to do a lot of tasting.
41:56
Yeah. But I certainly understand the
42:00
like the effect. I mean, I've been over
42:02
caffeinated. It's like really unpleasant and
42:04
like it gives people a whole new option.
42:07
Like that's those are not small percentages either.
42:10
Like you walk on down the street, you know, it's like, you
42:13
know what, probably 10 people of the people you encounter in one
42:16
minute. Like it's it's an underserved
42:18
market who want need a different caffeine profile than coffee.
42:23
Has to offer exactly yeah, yeah, it's great to have the the
42:29
options now and and just yeah, just everyone discovering yet
42:36
something that's going to benefit them for the long term
42:38
really. Yeah, yeah.
42:42
Aaron, out of my curiosity, So when you source tea, what, what
42:47
do you care about? Like, you obviously people care
42:50
about the flavor, care about the price.
42:52
Like like also do you like, would you like try the samples
42:56
and would you like think to yourself, oh wow, I feel good
43:00
after drinking this tea and would that be wonderful
43:02
consideration too? Yeah, so I guess the two, I, I
43:06
sell just two varieties of matcha, an everyday matcha and a
43:10
premium matcha so that every day it's tended to be a little bit
43:14
more astringent, a little bit of bitterness in there.
43:17
But it will it's it's fine to drink on its own.
43:20
Like it's still quite delicious, but it's, it really shines in a
43:25
latte. Like it's not going to be lost.
43:27
And that's the main purpose for that matcha.
43:30
The premium matcha, it's more of a, you know, ceremonial grade,
43:35
even though that term is a little controversial.
43:37
But it's more of a smoother, delicate taste.
43:40
So very, very minimal bitterness, probably more umami
43:45
and embedded to drink just with water to really appreciate it.
43:48
It's a single origin, whereas the everyday matcha is a blend.
43:53
So it's quite. Yeah.
43:55
So one I have that has that a little bit of bitter astringency
43:59
and the other is more of a smoother flavor.
44:02
And I think that kind of caters to most people that buy from me.
44:08
So yeah, taste is key. Like things that I have a
44:10
preference for. I like both of those things.
44:13
If I had to pick, I'd probably go more of a smooth type of
44:16
matcha. But I also understand that gets
44:19
lost in a matcha latte. So you do need a little a little
44:23
bit of kick there. Yeah.
44:25
And then so taste price obviously, but it's not a super
44:30
strong consideration. It's more the taste and I will
44:33
pay, I see the value in it. I will pay for what I perceive
44:37
to be high quality. And and then it comes down to,
44:41
yeah, the people, the relationships, the kind of
44:46
heritage and history of the places I source from.
44:50
I mean, to that point, I get a lot of people are talking about
44:53
transparency this at the moment and telling people where they, I
44:57
think the regions are really important and the cultivars and
45:00
that kind of information. But it's also a bit tricky being
45:05
a business owner. So I could just say right now,
45:08
Oh yeah, I get my tea from insert, insert business name
45:12
insert, you know, and I kind of still feel a bit protective and
45:16
guarded over that because yeah, sure, like people can find the
45:20
same company and source from the same company and repackage it
45:23
differently. But I feel like I've put in the
45:26
time and effort to establish those relationships.
45:29
And if they do that of their own accord, that's so fine.
45:33
But if they're just going to kind of take that information
45:35
from me and replicate, that's a little bit how hard to swallow,
45:39
you know? Yeah, I totally understand.
45:42
I'm really torn. I'm really torn with that
45:45
because I do think like shining the light on farmers and
45:49
farmers, particular tea farms and families.
45:51
That is amazing. And I love that tea businesses
45:54
do that. But yeah, I wonder, do they have
45:56
that concern about copycats? I don't know.
46:00
Yeah, I think the ones that have shared do get copycatted.
46:04
I mean the concern is real. I mean, it is for everyone who
46:08
does. Like, it's even like visiting.
46:12
I mean, that's how we have found a lot of people to talk to.
46:15
I actually have a list of where I discovered a farmer and then
46:19
everyone who I know sources from them and like all like publicly
46:24
available information. You poke around on the web
46:27
enough. Yeah, yeah.
46:28
Pattern match and it's, it's, and I think it's like what
46:31
everyone's doing because if you don't speak Japanese, it's the
46:33
only thing you can do. So it's, I think it's like
46:37
totally understandable. Yeah, yeah, even like I'll give
46:42
an example. Back in 2019, I when I was still
46:46
sourcing from Fuji, the Emperor warning, Emperor Emperor
46:49
award-winning tea farm in Fiji. And I interviewed the farmer and
46:54
I went to the tea farm and met the workers and everything.
46:57
And I think I in the YouTube video comment, I listed the name
47:01
of the tea farm. And then just recently I caught
47:04
up with the, the daughter in my last trip and she said something
47:09
to me because I said, if I've got time, perhaps I could come
47:12
along to the T farm if that suits.
47:14
But she said they've received so many requests over the last few
47:18
years and they've actually, they've actually turned down
47:22
people to visit the farm. It's just, it doesn't work for
47:25
them. And in the back of my mind I was
47:26
thinking, oh, I hope it's not. I know it may not be, but I'm
47:29
like, I hope it wasn't that YouTube video that I listed the
47:32
I get heaps of people emailing me most like maybe once a month
47:37
or so. Can you give me the name of that
47:39
T farm so I can go visit because the videos are still online, you
47:43
know, so I don't want to cause any problems.
47:45
But yeah, just it just, you've got to think they, they, they're
47:50
fielding a lot of inquiries now. So it must be really challenging
47:55
to be over there and having to make a decision about do we let
48:01
these people in, Do we form a relationship with them or do we
48:04
just say, no, we're at capacity, which is usually what I'm
48:07
hearing. It's at capacity.
48:09
We can't take on any more customers, you know.
48:11
Yeah, that's what we keep hearing too, although we're
48:15
we're not as established. So for us, we're at like the
48:17
bottom of the begging border, but no.
48:20
Yeah, some. Sometimes we just don't hear.
48:22
Sometimes we just don't hear anything, you know, Not even a
48:26
no. I know is actually nice.
48:28
Then again, you OK? I'll stop emailing you.
48:30
Yeah, but I think it's really, it's great like Sanjun that, you
48:34
know, Japanese. I think that's amazing.
48:38
It's amazing advantage and a really, it goes a long way for
48:41
those, even if it's a basic level conversation, it doesn't
48:46
matter if you've made the effort, they really respect
48:49
that. So I think if you take the time
48:52
to learn about the culture, you're more, the doors are going
48:55
to open easier, you know? Absolutely.
48:58
We did end up finding, you know, like sending emails and messages
49:02
at the nice language. Well, you know, we've got a much
49:04
better response rate there. You go less energy and effort
49:08
required. Replying back in Japanese.
49:11
Yeah, yeah. Must be a great gift for your
49:15
sourcing too, because you speak, you speak Japanese.
49:18
So it's, yeah, really a huge barrier like in sourcing, like
49:23
for us, I mean, that's the tricky part.
49:24
Like we're, I'm grateful Sam has some.
49:26
But like from what I understand, like you're like, you're fluent.
49:31
Oh no, OK, that means like fluent.
49:35
No, I'm not fluent, but enough, enough to get conversations.
49:40
And I think look, this is the thing with larger tea businesses
49:43
in Japan and the two I deal with, one guy's American and one
49:47
guy's French. So they're the people they're
49:49
putting in charge of their export division.
49:51
So there's no issues there. But I think when you visit the
49:55
tea farms and you can communicate with the farmers,
49:58
like when you visit, particularly as a woman too,
50:01
like I'm going into these very male dominant industries.
50:05
And if I can converse with them in Japanese, I think it does
50:09
again, open a dialogue and there's effort there.
50:13
And even if I make mistakes, it's OK.
50:15
It just really goes a long way. And and I love that.
50:19
I love learning and and listening to their stories.
50:22
So yeah, that would be my tip for anyone starting go Start
50:25
learning Japanese. It's a great language I love.
50:28
It I'm so intimidated it seems so complicated.
50:31
I got people have lost me at 3 alphabets like no fine it's hard
50:34
enough. True.
50:36
Well, you're learning French, so that's incredible as well.
50:39
Yeah. At least it's in the Roman
50:41
alphabet. It's a different set of
50:43
complexities. Now I have to learn what the
50:45
gender of like a refrigerator is.
50:48
Exactly. So we're approaching time.
50:51
I think we covered almost everything.
50:52
We did, yeah. I think what you're doing like
50:56
about with your milling machine is incredible.
50:59
And I'm deeply interested because I've been thinking about
51:03
it lately. Yeah, for about the last month,
51:06
I've been out of stock pretty much like on my main matcha.
51:11
And I understand why. Like it's the end so late into
51:18
the last harvest April, basically the two suppliers said
51:22
that's it, we're done and you have to wait for the new harvest
51:26
tea. So I'm like, OK, cool.
51:29
I ordered what I could, but then, then that was it.
51:34
So I've had to wait and it's kind of been out of my hands.
51:40
I had to be patient with that. I had to respect that this is
51:43
nature and this is, you know, to produce a first harvest tea,
51:48
there's no short cutting it. You have to just wait.
51:50
But as a business owner, I mean, that's cost me a lot of income
51:55
not having that much in stock. Thankfully, I have very loyal
51:59
customers and once it comes back into stock, it will be all fine.
52:02
But talk like talking about your milling machine gives me a lot
52:06
of hope because that's almost like a reserve, a backup option.
52:10
And and I don't want it to just be that I'd love to, you know,
52:14
mill Tinja on it all year round. But this particular situation
52:19
that I've just gone through with not having much of for over a
52:22
month, I'm like, imagine if I had my own machine and I could
52:25
be milling and just plugging the gaps and, and having that a
52:29
little bit more in control. I was talking to my accountant
52:32
recently and I was telling her about the situation.
52:34
She said, you really have to think about some risk management
52:37
solutions here. And I'm like, I know from a
52:39
business perspective, yes, I didn't think about second
52:43
harvest matcha. And I'm like, no, I don't want
52:45
to do that. Or like sourcing it from another
52:47
country. And I'm like, it's going to be
52:50
always Japanese. But I get your point.
52:52
But yeah, things like this milling machine gives me like,
52:55
that hope, like maybe that's a way of mitigating risk, you
52:58
know, right to, Yeah, help when the supply dries up at the end
53:03
of the harvest, things like that, you know?
53:06
Yeah, though I think that could give people a lot more options
53:09
because I know some of the real bottlenecks are just milling,
53:12
though. It's yeah.
53:14
We're excited to also see like more matcha being milled fresh
53:17
and those are new edges where consumers are AT and.
53:21
It just. Can also like put in people to
53:24
the process and the effort. Like when you literally see
53:28
matcha being milled at 40 grams per hour or 50 grams per hour in
53:33
our machine you can get up to 80 but you can go down to 40 and it
53:36
does increase the quality. People just seeing wow like
53:40
creating good matcha takes time. Yeah.
53:43
Seeing is believing and like showing, not telling and having
53:47
that not be so abstracted far away but closer to where the
53:50
consumer is at I think. Yeah, like.
53:53
Also like how people like modulate their consumption too
53:56
because you see how like this is like how much time it takes to
54:01
make really good matcha. Exactly.
54:04
And what are like almost not a world first, but it will change
54:07
the market so much because then it becomes about purchasing
54:12
Tensure and and then blending options and how that affects
54:16
pricing. Like you would assume that
54:18
buying Tensure is going to be at a more affordable price than
54:22
Matcha because it's not the finished product.
54:26
So it might open up a lot of more accessibility and bring
54:29
pricing down a bit too, you know?
54:31
Yeah. We hope so.
54:32
Yeah. Yeah, it's the Wild West,
54:35
though, like trying to ask for tension at the moment.
54:38
So like a really weird request. Like every time, like we ask
54:42
people, they're like, OK, we have to ask, but maybe.
54:46
Purchase them Tension. Yeah, I mean, I've thought about
54:50
it lately and once I've gotten out of this kind of shortage
54:53
part, whether I should ask my suppliers now, what's the
54:57
likelihood of like purchasing tension?
54:59
Might need it down the track, yeah.
55:01
No, it's exciting Changes, yeah. Which is?
55:04
Yeah, no. Problem.
55:07
All right, awesome. So as one last question, what
55:11
are some changes you'd like to see sort of the industry wide
55:14
level as we navigate these matcha shortages, as we get new
55:18
consumers entering the fold and as this whole landscape kind of
55:22
evolves and changes? And since like your first sip of
55:26
tea in Kyoto meeting this, you know, someone part of a Uji, you
55:31
know, historic Uji family all the way through now, how do you
55:35
have you taken those experiences that you've had and like project
55:38
that onto the future of in future you'd like to see I.
55:41
Think for me it comes down to a deep respect for the Japanese
55:47
culture, where I know that much. It was originally kind of China,
55:51
but then a lot of it's part entwined into the history of
55:55
Japan. And I don't want people to.
55:57
Yeah. And I don't want people to
55:59
forget that. And I think you don't have to do
56:01
like a deep dive into Japanese history or anything, but it is a
56:05
a link to the culture. So, you know, people who visit
56:10
Japan and come back and drink the matcha, if they say to me,
56:14
oh, it makes me feel like I'm back in Japan or it tastes like
56:17
it did in Japan and that that is like my job done.
56:20
I, I want to give people the taste of Japan in a cup.
56:23
That is my like, tagline. But yeah, about it does.
56:26
I just think I, I couldn't imagine selling matcha without
56:30
that aspect. And plenty of brands do like the
56:34
And that, like everyone has their own USP and their own
56:37
values. Some people just want to sell it
56:40
as like a health and Wellness product and like, pop it into
56:43
kind of a supplement or a blend. And that works for them and
56:46
their customers. I just don't want it to lose the
56:49
magic, you know? And there is so much, yeah, so
56:55
much magic and preciousness about this tea and all the
56:59
effort. You know, when you go and visit
57:01
Japan and you see behind the scenes the tea farm and the the
57:05
hot weather and you you did the tea picking.
57:08
So you know how hard it back breaking it is.
57:11
And then it goes into the facility for steaming and air
57:14
drying and milling and and you just think like that can't be
57:20
disrespected and it needs to be valued.
57:22
I think we all carry a responsibility to to represent
57:28
these people that are working so hard and not make it such AI
57:32
don't know like a consumable that you don't give any thought
57:35
to. And then like it's about forming
57:38
that ritual as well and slowing down and and when you drink that
57:42
much, it can take you to a place.
57:45
It can transport you by that taste and smell and it creates a
57:50
moment for you, but it also gives you a chance to really
57:54
reflect on how lucky you are to drink this tea and how magical.
57:57
Don't you find it magical? Like actually I had a moment
58:02
when 2023 when I went down way down South in Kyushu to
58:06
Kagoshima, to the tea farm. And I actually sat there and
58:10
prepared the matcha at the tea fields, just on the grass, like
58:15
no fancy setup or anything. And I remember saying to the tea
58:19
farmers and there I said, this moment is so special and
58:23
emotional for me because I'm drinking the tea that is growing
58:27
here like behind me. And I live in Australia.
58:31
So this is like I just couldn't even, it was blowing my mind how
58:35
special that was to be able to drink the tea from that field
58:40
right there and then, you know. Yeah.
58:42
So in summary, I think, yeah, it just, it just needs this
58:46
precious magical gift that we all have.
58:49
We need to really give it a lot of respect and care.
58:53
Yeah, there's like few things. Your thing really inspired this
58:57
thought. There's like few things in food
58:58
and beverage or that we consume where you can be that connected
59:03
to some like really deep historical legacy in a way that
59:09
you can feel and you meet the people and you see the process.
59:13
And that process has been so well documented through tea
59:17
ceremony for so long, and it's been so respected and thoughtful
59:22
for so long. There's just like very few
59:25
things that we can encounter at least that are good for us.
59:28
Like maybe you could say like some other things about alcohol
59:31
or like, I don't know, tobacco, like has some really ancient
59:34
traditions too. But like, for something that's
59:36
so good for you, that has this really deep historical and
59:41
cultural connection, I can't actually think of that many
59:45
other things where you tapped into something greater than
59:49
yourself. Yeah, it's almost spiritual,
59:55
especially if you're like with matcha, you consume the entire
59:58
leaf. So yeah, you're not like
1:00:01
discarding that leaf. It's you are consuming the all
1:00:05
my goodness and, and all the hard work and yeah, yeah, it's,
1:00:11
it's insane. Please.
1:00:13
Yeah, when you read, when we read about all those, you know,
1:00:18
ancient literatures from, you know, not only Japan but so
1:00:22
China, people describing how they feel about drinking NACHA
1:00:26
and you feel the same way. It's like, you know, beyond a
1:00:30
resonance or echoing of language, right?
1:00:34
It's sensational too, something really magical.
1:00:39
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just all that.
1:00:42
Yeah. The skill, the multi
1:00:44
generational thing is wild as well.
1:00:46
Like because of the year this tea farm is in the same family.
1:00:49
And yeah. And they learn from each other
1:00:51
and it becomes a community like the tea workers that come in and
1:00:55
they, they're like treated like family because they're there
1:00:58
every year and they're in their 80s and they love it.
1:01:01
Yeah. I'm actually reading the book of
1:01:04
my friend, her father. Her father wrote a book, and
1:01:08
he's since passed away, but he wrote a book about how to grow
1:01:12
tensure, and I haven't actually read it.
1:01:14
Yeah, I hadn't read it yet. I'll send you the link for it.
1:01:17
It's so fascinating. His name is Toshio Tetokawa.
1:01:22
And yeah, it it was. It's an incredible read.
1:01:25
Did you know one fun fact before we end in like the 1950s or 50s,
1:01:31
I think he said to fertilize the tea bushes, they would use human
1:01:36
feces really, because it would produce a really soft nutritious
1:01:41
leaf like it it really, which it makes sense.
1:01:43
It's like. Yeah.
1:01:44
Oh yeah, actually it makes perfect sense.
1:01:47
Wouldn't want to have that job on the T5 and.
1:01:52
Like, yeah, you learn so much. It's great.
1:01:56
It's that's super interesting. Better than synthetic
1:01:59
fertilizer. It's all natural.
1:02:01
True, yeah. True full circle moments.
1:02:06
Indeed. Awesome.
1:02:07
Well, thank you so much for coming on and thank you to all
1:02:11
the listeners. And if you enjoyed this podcast,
1:02:14
please consider sharing it with a friend and we'll see you on
1:02:16
the next one. And thanks so much, Aaron.
1:02:18
You're welcome. Thank you so much.
1:02:20
Speak to you. Yeah.
1:02:22
Bye. Bye.