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516: Is Drowning In Motherhood God's Design? · Now That We're A Family

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Howdy folks, welcome back to the podcast.
0:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Today, Katie and I get to jump into a listener question that came from one of you, one of our listeners, and it's prompted a great conversation between Katie and myself.
0:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we jump into reading this question, we do want to let you all know.
0:16
[SPEAKER_00]: That the back-to-school sale of open music academy has in fact come to a close at the release of this episode You are no longer able to partake in that incredible discount for the first month of lessons.
0:30
[SPEAKER_00]: However, if you sign up for Open music academy here in the month of September you will be signed up in time to partake
0:37
[SPEAKER_00]: In our upcoming fall competition last year, we had hundreds of students compete.
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: We had prize money, the first place prize for each category was $100 in cash that we mailed out.
0:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you want to compete on the piano, the guitar, the fiddle, the ukulele, the mandolin, there's even a collaboration division as well where you're able to collaborate with friends or family and do little bands, kind of like a band competition.
1:01
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's going to be happening once again, this October.
1:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you can join Voper Music Academy now, and that'll give you some time to practice up, to kind of get familiar with the community, to get familiar with the live calls, and you'll be able to see the criteria that we're going to be judging this year's competition on.
1:18
[SPEAKER_00]: We're really going to, you know, just, again, just to kind of go over while we're doing this competition.
1:22
[SPEAKER_00]: The six songs, the summer challenge, which many of you participate in, and the jingle jam challenge, which is coming up in December.
1:28
[SPEAKER_00]: that many of you participate in is it's all about participation for those challenges.
1:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we reward participation.
1:35
[SPEAKER_00]: The competition is all about excellence.
1:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we're going to be rewarding excellence.
1:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're going to be really listening to things like intonation, if you're on the, you know, the fiddle rhythm.
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: I think creativity with your arrangement, overall musicality, so phrasing and your ability to have dynamic in your plane.
1:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we want you to be thinking about this starting as soon as possible because we want you to really hone in on those finer aspects of music, whereas again, the other challenges are just kind of like, hey, however you can get the song arranged and performed do it and you get rewarded for that.
2:12
[SPEAKER_00]: We really want you to take this competition a little bit more seriously when it comes to your performance and how again, into and you are the technique that you're using rhythm so on and so forth.
2:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, again, check the link below.
2:24
[SPEAKER_00]: There still is actually a bit of a discount that you can get when you use the code below.
2:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But with all that said, we'll jump into today's episode.
2:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you excited, Katie?
2:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I've excited about today's episode, and I like to read me this listener question.
2:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I could relate it with part of it, and there's kind of like two parts.
2:41
[SPEAKER_01]: There's like Katie the first five years of marriage, and then Katie the past five months of marriage.
2:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Different perspectives that I had.
2:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So, anyways, I'm excited to answer it.
2:52
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so this question comes from a listener in Argentina, which is fun.
2:56
[SPEAKER_00]: We're so in it, this podcast is so international.
2:59
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got listeners around the world, and this listener says, we have a beautiful daughter of seven weeks and I am drowning.
3:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this is not God's design.
3:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to sleep eight hours straight to be rested and have an hour a day alone with my husband, be a wife again.
3:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Please help God bless you.
3:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
3:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I'm so glad you sent this and felt comfortable sending this postpartum is a very special season especially with your first where your husband's looking at you probably like who did I marry is this going to be motherhood now for my wife like you mentioned being a wife again.
3:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's this
3:38
[SPEAKER_01]: shock that kind of happens on both sides of the relationship where the husband's like, okay, what's normal?
3:44
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not when it comes to this whole motherhood thing.
3:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is she going to cry every time she's happy or sad or like, opens the refrigerator door?
3:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and for you as well as the mother, um, thinking, thank you.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: How normal is this?
4:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what is, what is God's design for this season?
4:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to live here forever.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So just know, I know it's hard to understand this your first time.
4:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But this season does end.
4:15
[SPEAKER_01]: This like overwhelm drowning season.
4:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It ends quicker than you think it's going to, but in the moment it feels like forever.
4:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So know that.
4:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes successive children a lot less stressful.
4:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Just because you've gone through it and you realize, oh, I knew this was gonna last forever.
4:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought this was gonna last forever.
4:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't.
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's okay, I'm not gonna stress out so much this time.
4:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say, and maybe you would disagree, Katie, but I think the most challenging postpartum for any of our six children that the Lord's blessed us with was that first one.
4:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And when she said seven weeks, I think that that was like the hardest part of the postpartum season for us.
5:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Like week six to maybe 10, week six to 10 in that range after our first born was uniquely challenging.
5:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You've grown so much in your faith and in your character, and so I think that's made the successive post-partums.
5:18
[SPEAKER_00]: You've endured those, and I guess gone through those with a lot more grace and it's been really inspirational.
5:24
[SPEAKER_00]: But then even for my standpoint, me just having more experience and knowledge of you and just how the whole process works has made it a lot more.
5:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I think um,
5:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, doable, right, each postpartum season and so I would say the same thing to the to the wife to the husband is take heart And in fact funny story Katie and I wrote out maybe our listeners don't know this because I don't even know if these books are still available But we wrote our first book
5:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a for him and a for her and it was titled after the baby and it was kind of Chronicleing that Experience that we had after our first child or maybe was after our first two do we right after our first child or our second child?
6:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember, but it was prompted by how hard our postpartum was the first time.
6:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's funny is the books really highlight the first six weeks.
6:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Alisha says, the sleep deformation really starts to build up around like weeks five through eight.
6:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, and then also you think you start feeling like I really should be back to normal at that phase, which makes like six to 12 weeks kind of its own challenge because in a lot of ways you are healed, you're ready to do
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: tackle life again, you are tackling life again, but then you feel a little hamstrung, you know, like everything's harder than it used to be.
6:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you're almost more frustrated because you feel like you should be out of the season.
6:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And in a lot of cases, like you are out of the thick thick of the physical and all that stuff.
6:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
6:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And he gets everybody's timeframes or different.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's postpartum experiences different, but for a lot of people, you know, those first couple of weeks, you have people bringing new meals, maybe you know, somebody creates a meal train for you.
7:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you've got family visiting or giving a showing a lot of support.
7:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe your husband has time off of work.
7:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And at some point, all those things go away, right?
7:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's probably different for each person.
7:14
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're blessed to have those supports, even when you have them, they go away at some point.
7:19
[SPEAKER_00]: and for us it was kind of in that time frame where it's like I was back to work full time the meals weren't coming any more family was you know off living their life as they should be and we're like okay well it's time for us to get to get back to normal right?
7:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Well I think I actually felt that like at seven days after planned like what I think of like the two mile walk
7:38
[SPEAKER_01]: walk I went on with your family and then wondered why like felt so bad after it.
7:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like after that first one I'm like, I think at this point we are going pretty hard.
7:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually it's six or seven weeks.
7:48
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just really tired like this mom states, which makes everything a bigger deal.
7:53
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
7:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sleep deprivation just has a unique, it's a, it's its own beast and that sounds like what you're in the thick of.
8:00
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, two things I would like very practically recommend here, and then I kind of want to address the philosophy of it, because the two things I would recommend are honestly, those after the baby books wouldn't hurt to go through to get on the same page with your husband.
8:12
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're still in print, again, they're cheesy, we wrote them 10 years ago, almost 10 years ago, maybe nine now.
8:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's why we don't recommend them, but I actually think they're pretty helpful.
8:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good stuff in there.
8:23
[SPEAKER_01]: We've heard a lot from a lot of people that they think they're helpful.
8:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So, those are still available, we'll link them below.
8:27
[SPEAKER_01]: know that.
8:28
[SPEAKER_01]: They're written cheesely, but yeah, a life is really funny.
8:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So I like this.
8:35
[SPEAKER_01]: On the, the second thing is the get it all done club.
8:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a big financial purchase.
8:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It is open right now, though, for enrollment.
8:43
[SPEAKER_01]: very practical in terms of taking you from drowning to thriving.
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like step by step, address one thing, then address the next thing, then address the next thing.
8:51
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very practical hands-on support.
8:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, it is a big purchase.
8:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not for everybody.
8:58
[SPEAKER_01]: It might not be for your season.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to let you know that that
9:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I always return to postpartum and start remembering, oh yeah, little things.
9:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Like little steps do this, then add in this, then add in this because it's not really one big thing.
9:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that gets you back to normal life or feeling more yourself or feeling more romantic in your marriage or all those things.
9:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of little tiny steps, the baby steps that you take.
9:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's that.
9:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk a little bit about, I know this isn't God's design.
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: That statement.
9:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That statement.
9:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I, as of very recently, have started to appreciate the suffering and the deprivation that is actually very much a part of God's design in terms of our growth as Christians.
9:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd say postfall.
9:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it was a part of the design pre-fall.
9:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it uses it now.
9:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, all I'm saying, I mean, I don't know what was ideal in the beginning.
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the right word, but it's a certainly a tool.
10:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it is his, okay, so I don't know, okay, I think it's his design and the Christian life.
10:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the Christian life post-Christ coming and carrying his cross.
10:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And calling us to daily suffering for him or to unite with him and suffering as it comes.
10:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be the life of every Christian here on earth.
10:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So design or not as a part of the fall, how we best live our Christian faith.
10:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Now is through uniting with Christ and whatever he has for us and because we live in a fallen world, that is going to be
10:45
[SPEAKER_01]: some form of suffering, whether that is self-inflicted, basically trying to avoid hardship and so getting our self into sin and issues and sick of ourselves, because of the bone dishes that we fall in and dig ourselves, or this pruning in this maturation process that the Lord allows in our life.
11:06
[SPEAKER_01]: for us to grow and really shed past immaturities and current immaturities and to grow in him.
11:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you say that that's accurate?
11:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and when we actually put it, God's design for the Christian life, I think I could get behind that because the Christian life obviously didn't exist until Christ came and wore our sins and died on the cross, you know, dying on the cross and rising again.
11:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you look at the Christian life and it's from the beginning, it's one there so much to the fruits of the spirit are supposed to be character, you know, our life is supposed to be characterized by those, but that's also in the midst of suffering and the midst of trial and that was at the beginning and I do think that like you said on some level, it's going to be the inevitable case for all Christians and we're able to count it all joy when we're in various, when we encounter various trials
12:03
[SPEAKER_00]: knowing that the testing of our faith produces patients.
12:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's in the book of James telling us that.
12:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the trials are inevitable and we are more than conquerors through Christ who gives us strength.
12:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't think that it is true to say, oh, this is a trial that I'm experiencing.
12:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It cannot be God's design.
12:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's, I just don't think that's true.
12:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that we could be living.
12:31
[SPEAKER_00]: fully in the heart of what God has for us and in his design and be experiencing great trials.
12:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But because we are Christ, because we are Christians, we get to be above that in the sense that we get to be more than conquerors through Christ.
12:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and bring great, have great joy in the element of that in those elements.
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I used to picture maybe like the words to him or something like I'm just a poor pilgrim traveling through this world of woe and see certain Christians who walked around with a very somber sad face of just
13:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait for, you know, this world to fall away and go into heaven.
13:09
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think that's what Christ is talking about when he's talking about, you know, patience, having its perfect work and James, it goes on to say that you may be perfect and entire wanting nothing.
13:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so God's very clearly talking about trials, producing patience,
13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: more righteous, through Christ, Christ's righteousness, and making us more perfect and entire one-to-nothing, where we don't want, we are in need, we are in lack.
13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're so aligned with God's grace.
13:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when I think of Paul saying, what do you say, I've learned to abound, or I've learned to obey, and I've learned to abound, I think Christians need, we need to learn how to do both of those things.
13:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at a Christian, it's like their characteristics,
14:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Or their attitude should kind of remain the exact same whether they are a bounding or whether they are, you know, a based or a basing or whatever you want to say when you're struggling to live is Christ and to die as games when we're living our life is Christ and we know that Christ's life was one filled with joy and with relationship, but it was also filled with suffering and sacrifice and so I just think that that you said Katie, I don't think that
14:29
[SPEAKER_00]: The attitude that turned us away from considering the Christian life to be one of potential, of inevitable, sometimes suffering, was this attitude of woe as me, I'm a weary pilgrim, and I cannot wait for this life to end and have my new life, because that is not what we're called to at all.
14:50
[SPEAKER_00]: same with grovelin in our sin.
14:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Woe is me, like who will ever deliver me from this body of death.
14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so wicked, I'm so sick of my own sin.
15:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, repent from your sin, acknowledge it, and then walk in the units of life that you have in Christ.
15:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that was kind of a discouraged us from any acknowledgment of believing, or I guess, of acknowledging that they're suffering in the Christian life.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, instead of saying, oh, wow, you can have joy and you can have peace and it's, you can have this supernatural freedom from anxiety and despair, wall accepting this inevitability of the pains here on earth.
15:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And instead of just seeing them as a form of the fall, seeing them as a tool now, since the fall to draw us to Christ.
15:43
[SPEAKER_01]: and to make us shed old ways and embrace what God has for us.
15:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really beautiful, the picture of Jesus being
15:57
[SPEAKER_01]: having that crown of thorns on his head and the read and the, you know, they're mocking him as he's after he's scorched at the pillar and he has his cloak on and everyone's saying, hey, here's the king of the Jews and he's clearly just beat up and yet he is announcing his victory.
16:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Like these people are mocking him.
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: It gives me chills to think about and yet he's announcing
16:26
[SPEAKER_01]: overall like I am victorious and the joke is on them.
16:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that is so often how we see scripture as we see God making the weak things of this world and the foolish things of this world.
16:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the shadow picture of what's actually happening of his glory, of his greatness, of the beauty, of the work that he is doing, and while we as humans are sitting here mocking what we think is going on, there's something glorious right behind that.
17:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just think that is so cool.
17:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when you're in those moments of sleep deprivation and fatigue and maybe someone else is seeing oh, your life being stripped away, there's really not a lot going on aside from just survival.
17:19
[SPEAKER_01]: The Lord's doing a glorious work, and there's this shadow happening behind that we don't get here on earth to see those fruits of fully until glory.
17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's just a really beautiful thing to see.
17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the world's never going to understand that.
17:37
[SPEAKER_01]: They're always going to be mocking the fallen scorn, like see, you're such a failure, see, you're a wreck, see.
17:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, no, like,
17:48
[SPEAKER_01]: The King of the Earth came as a baby, was born in a major to a poor couple, and those people are the ones who are elevated in heaven.
17:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
17:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, Paul saying in one of the Corinthians that, you know, he chose the lowly things of this world to...
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I found the wise.
18:06
[SPEAKER_00]: To confound the wise.
18:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
18:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that continues to be the case.
18:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we in our own reasoning, you know, God's wisdom is foolishness to man.
18:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And, or said what it says, something like that.
18:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And you think of that season, the postpartum season, really as kind of a heightened
18:25
[SPEAKER_00]: picture into what's outside perspective, outside meaning, other human perspectives could have.
18:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, okay, so you're now stripped of your sleep.
18:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you don't have time to build your career anymore.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Your health is depleting.
18:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Your relationships are what they used to be.
18:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have the romance and your marriage like you used to have.
18:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And you go on and on and on, right?
18:47
[SPEAKER_00]: This is costing you money, it's costing you your health.
18:51
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing and there's this there's an element you like want to compete with that where you're kind of like no I'm gonna prove them wrong.
18:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to try to you know, you know, you're like try to fight flesh with flesh basically and Rather than looking at it from a eternal perspective and be like wait a second like this is An opportunity for me to grow in such a deeper way in my faith and to think of the king of kings coming to the lowest of places
19:21
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the fact that he became human, you know, saw if it, what does it say in Philippians, you know, like, yeah, let's see, what does it say there?
19:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man, I can't remember the passage in in Philippians, but it be hooved him to, you know, become the lowest of the lows that the people, like being crucified on the cross, like that was like the, that was the mark of utter failure.
19:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And that in that society, and there would be no human reasoning that would be like, yes, that was, that was God's design.
19:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
19:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that the king of the universe would get to such a low place that he's crucified on a cross.
20:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a common criminal.
20:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like a common criminal.
20:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet that was just, that was actually him winning and fully surrendering to a perfect God.
20:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, you know,
20:14
[SPEAKER_00]: He did that on our behalf, and so we don't have to go do that, be crucified, but any time we are being challenged or experiencing trials because of obedience to Christ, we should look to the perfect example and say a way to second.
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: He laid his life down in submission to God.
20:36
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a trial that is an objective trial, like giving birth to a child, an experiencing postpartum, is a real physical and emotional and it's a true trial.
20:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But we know that children, if the Lord gave you that pregnancy and He gave you that baby, we know that's His will for your life.
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you can be confident in that.
20:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that wasn't a mistake to have this child.
21:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a mistake to be in this position.
21:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you can find your hope and your confidence and just be in submission to the Lord's will at this point in your life and then getting the grace that comes from that.
21:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I used to think two of people who did spiritual practices that were kind of more like self-mortifying in terms of denying the flesh.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of pointless.
21:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, what is the point?
21:25
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, God's given us all these good things, right?
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And we do get a feast with him.
21:29
[SPEAKER_01]: We do get an enjoy intimacy within marriage.
21:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We do get to have the blessing of children.
21:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, why are they just trying to like make life harder on themselves, but like feel wholeier something by like denying themselves food or have intentional sleep deprivation or, you know, like do these things that are physically hard just for the sake of being hard?
21:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, as far as like a set of system.
21:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
21:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a set of spiritual practices.
21:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's interesting is you see that those things can happen naturally, but in some lives here in America and stuff like that, they don't happen naturally.
22:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can get so used to comfort if we're just living in a normal life.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We can get so used to comfort and serving our flesh.
22:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's the difficulty is when we get very comfortable and we always have our fleshly needs fulfilled, when we want them fulfilled.
22:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we have a very hard time when we are tempted or when the devil wants to get under our skin to be like, oh, I'm hangry, because
22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm always used to being full and now I'm going to I have this great reason to get into sin because my fleshly need is not me met or I fallen into one as a mother with sleep deprivation and being like well I'm tired I didn't sleep last night and that's why I'm biting everyone's head is off because obviously I'm low on sleep and trying to attribute it to this natural cause
23:10
[SPEAKER_01]: mortification process that he gives us his mothers that I think is very sanctifying.
23:15
[SPEAKER_01]: We get to now depend more on him because you have to depend on him when your physical body is letting you down.
23:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if I get a good eight hours of sleep I can just depend on not being that irritable.
23:30
[SPEAKER_01]: If I don't then I have to look to supernatural outside help when my child's asking for something and my nerves are raw.
23:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think it's actually this really beautiful thing that motherhood whenever we say marriage is sanctifying, right?
23:45
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a common thing because we have to let go of selfishness in order to have a glorious marriage.
23:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Motherhood is sanctifying.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: There are these ways that we can look to God and thank Him for this natural process.
23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: that he brings into our life where we aren't having to go out and seek out an aesthetic spiritual discipline.
24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just offered to us on a silver platter and the Lord's going, hey, right now you aren't sleeping very much.
24:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to use that in your life.
24:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You can either lean into your fleshly, sinful nature or you can see me as guiding you and to righteousness.
24:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would just want to encourage you right now.
24:28
[SPEAKER_01]: You can walk in Christ's grace and seeing things like this as a spiritual practice, not a practical annoyance in your life to get rid of as soon as possible, has really changed my perspective and continues to change my perspective and embracing.
24:45
[SPEAKER_01]: the discomfort and being like bored use this to sanctify me, use this to not care so much about what my flesh is doing and just have this consistent grace that I'm walking in daily.
24:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyways, I think it can be this cool encouragement that you're like going through this boot camp of a lining your life with the Christ.
25:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's an incredible, it can be an incredible opportunity.
25:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I think there's an element of irony that it's like we're talking about suffering while we're like sitting in these old fashioned like thrones, it's kind of awesome, like in total cover.
25:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's why spiritual asceticism is a thing.
25:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Why it should be a thing.
25:26
[SPEAKER_01]: We can see a bunch of comfort in our lives.
25:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but my dad always used to say, character begins when the fun ends.
25:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that there's, you could say that our faith is actually practiced when the fun ends or when our bodies don't feel good or when circumstances are unideal.
25:44
[SPEAKER_00]: because it's like, oh, I'm hungry, that's why I'm short.
25:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm low on sleep, that's why I'm, you know, in a bad mood.
25:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, oh, I've got, there's a big bill that like, we just got, right?
25:55
[SPEAKER_00]: We just got a big bill and I don't know if the funds are there.
25:57
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I'm really stressed out and I'm full of anxiety.
26:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But in reality it's like that's actually the truth like that's true.
26:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That's showing you how much faith you do have or don't have how much you are walking in faith You're walking with a Lord and you're not it's when you are sick.
26:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It's when there are not enough resources in the bank right and you'd like the and the finances aren't there and you're like okay
26:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I going because every that's you're just I am this is a hundred percent this is how I've viewed being a Christian is it's like When I feel good then I act more Christian which is ironic, right?
26:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean that doesn't really even it doesn't even make sense and then when the bank accounts low or when the kids are sick or when I'm not sleeping well or when Like whatever like things aren't going my way business is bad
26:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I'm in a bad mood and then I'm frustrated and then I'm irritable and there's nothing Christian about that that criteria for walking and walking out your life and so I think that's why James has counted all joy when you encounter various trials knowing the testing of your past faith-produce it, produce it, oh my word.
27:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's like, are you going to do these lectures?
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Do not, you know what I mean?
27:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm going to do this.
27:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Produce is patients.
27:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you can count it all to you.
27:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, this is actually telling the truth as to where my faith is.
27:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
27:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we actually get to see how mature of a Christian I am.
27:18
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually get to see how strong my faith is.
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually get to see, I actually get to see how close I am to my Lord and Savior.
27:25
[SPEAKER_00]: If I,
27:27
[SPEAKER_00]: encounter a trial of sleep deprivation, of sickness, of financial struggles, of death, and the family, or whatever it is, the loss of an opportunity, the loss of a job, where how much comfort am I finding in the Lord?
27:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I counting it joy?
27:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I praising the Lord for this breath?
27:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I saying the Lord by will be done?
27:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm saying this saying that that is not
27:56
[SPEAKER_00]: for most of my life.
27:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I have felt very fine being in a crummy mood when circumstances are good.
28:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And feeling a deep conviction of that.
28:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And we know that that's not actually true of what a Christian should be.
28:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You are actually, I think, very good in this area.
28:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You're exceptional in this area.
28:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You challenge me in this way.
28:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to be very hungry, and I have no idea.
28:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like, he won't have slept the night before, and I have no idea.
28:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Until I don't, like, he doesn't even bring it up, you know?
28:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's something I really admire about you.
28:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and you said something like letting this trial actually serve its purpose rather than kind of trying to expedite and say, I just want to get through it, because we can do, and especially with modern technology, we can do that.
28:48
[SPEAKER_00]: We can go to media, we can go to food for the most part, you know, we can go to so many things that just distract us through a season.
28:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Rather than letting the season do its work in you, of refining you, of growing your closer to the Lord,
29:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's where I've changed my perspective.
29:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And this a lot of this has come from experiencing it, what I would call it, a closer walk with the Lord.
29:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You realize, oh, I wasn't even valuing faith.
29:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I'd say like, oh, this could strengthen my faith, that didn't quantify in my brain.
29:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, my faith is good enough.
29:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm a Christian.
29:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I know I'm going to heaven when I die.
29:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I know his righteousness has covered me.
29:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how much more faith do I really need?
29:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you actually view faith as being that precious thing, the most precious thing that you have.
29:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want more of that.
29:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I want a stronger faith.
29:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be closer to the Lord.
29:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to know him more.
29:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's an opportunity for
29:41
[SPEAKER_00]: that then you I think do grab hold of that opportunity and in practical ways it's like through sleep deprivation.
29:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm not sleeping.
29:49
[SPEAKER_00]: There's that many more hours that I'm awake that I can be in prayer that I can be meditating on as word.
29:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I am there is this constant nagging of a bill.
29:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time that I'm reminded of my lack of financial resources for this situation, it's what an opportunity to go to the Lord.
30:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Say, Lord, you are my all-in-all, like you are enough.
30:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You've given me all things to pertain in the life and godliness, and letting those trials actually serve the purpose that I think the Lord intends them to.
30:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, something that I've really changed on my mind and heart on too is a common belief in motherhood that life is so busy, you get a commune with the Lord all the time.
30:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't have time to be in God's Word or if you don't have time to be in prayer, you can, you know, just send up a prayer wherever you're at.
30:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And while these things are true, I think they really hinder our faith in motherhood because
30:42
[SPEAKER_01]: If life is so busy and we are so overwhelmed and there are so many things going on, we need actual practical time with God more than ever.
30:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's the time when we need it.
30:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that,
31:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you're not sleeping, I would really encourage you if you don't have some kind of meditative practice right now or some kind of prayer practice or something that you can do in your half asleep.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, just going through scripture and getting through by five cards and writing down all the verses that like you want to grow in or the woman you want to be or.
31:17
[SPEAKER_01]: the way you want your heart to change and having those and then praying through those.
31:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be an incredible spiritual practice to do like in the middle of the night.
31:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, instead of maybe scrolling your phone while you're breastfeeding, it's just reminding yourself, like, Lord, this is doing a work in me.
31:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Allow me, like, please do a work through me.
31:38
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be clay that's multiple in your hands.
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And having this really be a time of building your faith.
31:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think on a practical note, there are a lot of, you know, you can sleep train, you can co-sleep.
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of ways that you will start getting more sleep here.
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can, I'm not.
31:58
[SPEAKER_01]: The nine that getting more practical sleep isn't going to be helpful or a gift.
32:04
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really just a gift.
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever we get to enjoy comfort, it's a gift.
32:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So moving in that direction, there's nothing wrong with that, but in this season, just really embracing it.
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And then same thing with your marriage, I think that I am such a huge believer in having children immediately.
32:21
[SPEAKER_01]: If.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: that's the Lord's will for your life and he blesses you.
32:26
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as you get married because it's funny I've heard people say well that was bad for my friends marriage or that was bad for our marriage and I'm like no it just reveals very quickly what your marriage is based on.
32:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not bad for your marriage or good for your marriage it's just revealing of your marriage and it's letting you and your spouse know is our marriage based on comfort and
32:48
[SPEAKER_01]: do you know like convenience or is this something that we're really willing to work towards and work it together when it's hard or when you're feeling insecure maybe in physical intimacy or your husband's unsure how to love you during this time or maybe communications hard or emotions or you know you are kind of crossing paths in the night or maybe
33:09
[SPEAKER_01]: The baby is getting prioritized to the level that your marriage is kind of just on the back burner, you know.
33:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And these are all beautiful things to be able to work through as a couple.
33:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to really strengthen your marriage.
33:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you say, you know, I'd love the hour with my husband to be a wife again, that has looked a certain way in a certain season.
33:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would just encourage
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: is probably going to look different in different seasons over the next 10, 20, 30 years.
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a beautiful time to think, how can I let him know that I care about him?
33:48
[SPEAKER_01]: In little ways, how can our prioritize our marriage?
33:51
[SPEAKER_01]: How can we seek unity?
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: How can we seek romance?
33:54
[SPEAKER_01]: How can we seek those things in this season?
33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Because,
33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: There's seasons when you're going to be under physical stress, there's going to be seasons when he's under physical stress and as those different trials show up, you want to be able to pivot and not just be like, well, this is how I'm a good wife, you're going to be like, how am I a good wife in this season?
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, a life has done an amazing job that loving me through all.
34:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know, you are just, you are incredible throughout all these seasons.
34:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I just piggybacking on that whole, the specifics that you kind of mentioned, that this listener mentioned and wanting to get eight hours of sleep and getting an hour of kind of devoted marriage time.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: That's great that you're, I mean, by all means pursue that.
34:35
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great thing to pursue.
34:37
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've come to find in our own marriage in the 10 years that we've been married now.
34:44
[SPEAKER_00]: To your point, Katie, what you've perceived as being the only way you could connect it usually isn't the case, there's other ways to connect and it could be less time, it could be more time, it could be different things, and I've found in our marriage and actually I think this goes with parenting too, a lot of times you'll say, well, this is the only way I connect with my kids, it's like, well, maybe that's the only way you've connected thus far, but we grow as people and there could be better ways to connect.
35:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what's cool about both growing in our faiths is there was a time probably in our marriage where it's like oh this is how we connect it's like we watch a show together you know and you're like wow that's not where we're at and I'm not trying to put anybody down that that's how they connect but just know that you can grow beyond that too you can you can grow beyond like connecting in more meaningful ways even and in more productive ways than just connecting over.
35:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, this is the show that we really enjoy and Katie and I still do that from time like I'm not I'm not putting that down Yeah, we enjoy a good movie and yeah, 20 minute clips.
35:44
[SPEAKER_00]: We turn it into a show But I've felt extremely connected with you in different seasons Where we're not spending very much uninterrupted devoted time with each other But you're really growing in your faith and I'm really growing in my faith and And maybe practically speaking we kind of are ships passing in the night
36:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like our calendars are busy.
36:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We're busy with the kids, but you're just vibrant in the Lord, and I'm so blessed by your accountants, and I'm feeling confident in my faith, and like we're just really connected.
36:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I do think that even the practical goals that you have, while they are good, I think, you know, date nights and full nights of sleep, those are awesome things to pursue, and then I love it when we have those.
36:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I don't feel like our marriage is dependent on those, um, I think, and same with parenting.
36:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like, there are, there are ways to be a really effective, fruitful parent, um, that are probably outside of the, the box that I've put, you know, that I've created for myself.
36:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's funny, a season like that for us was the tent, because that was a huge adjustment for both of us.
36:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Neither of us had any personal time, and then we were together 24-7 with all of our children.
36:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So even, I mean, a life should work.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: away from the tent, sometimes when he came home, like we had no babysitter until the very end.
37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we didn't want to babysitter to have to come out and watch everybody in the tent.
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't really trust ourselves to let anyone else out there aside from us.
37:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we're all sleeping in the one room house, you know.
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So intimacy was like a challenge, getting any conversation all the time together was a challenge.
37:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And it took learning to, it ended up being a very bonding time.
37:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Very much a bonding time for us, partially.
37:32
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just, we were so stoked we were doing this challenge together, and we bonded over that.
37:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But we bonded totally different in the tent than we did in other seasons of our marriage.
37:42
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, just know, it really just the design of God's marriage and the design of family and parenting, it's going to look different in different seasons and it might be three hours of sleep and night and just showing your husband a little ways you love him throughout the day and not getting that like quality quality time, you know, that could be God's design for you in this in this season.
38:07
[SPEAKER_01]: So just know that, and I'd really embrace it, and yeah, pursue all the practical things, like, and I love practical stuff.
38:14
[SPEAKER_01]: We try to share as many practical tips here on the podcast as possible.
38:17
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, this is a beautiful gift.
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm looking forward, more than I ever have, to go into another postpartum season, and just having a different perspective this time.
38:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, any other class Katie?
38:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so.
38:33
[SPEAKER_00]: folks, thank you all so much for listening.
38:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for the questions too.
38:36
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've got any comments or questions or just topic ideas or people that you think we would enjoy interviewing or you would like to hear us interview the question submission area on the now that we're a family website is a great place to write those in.
38:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe we'll link that down below as well.
38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can just access that.
38:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Let us know any questions you have or any comments.
38:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Folks, have an awesome day.
38:59
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk to you next time.
39:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye.