Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct - Episode 186

Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 186 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Straight Down the Middle, Squad, Try.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Bucket, Inside the Game from Every Angle. It's Rugby Direct
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by News Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Welcome in too, Rugby Direct palund By four Clips Solutions
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: lifting you and your business to a higher level. Elliott
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Smith with me Liam Napier out of the New Zealand Heralds.
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: Back in New Zealand, it's raining, but we have our
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: All Blacks Ends of Year Tour squad to dissect and
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: the All Black fifteen End of Year Tour Squad to
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: dissect as well. Some surprises to an extent, but not
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: many from that All Black squad, but some breaking news
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: as we go to record this podcast, Liam that Patrick
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: three belong to is our of the All Blacks End
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: of Year Tour squad with an ac joint injury. He's
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: going to require surgery and that needs a round about
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: six months a ref So for the All Blacks, that's
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: a real blow your top line thoughts on that before
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: we dig a little bit deeper into the squad itself.
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, massive blow. Elliott Patrick two plow too very experienced
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: lock and has sort of owned that leading the bench
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: role the impact role in recent times for the All Blacks.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: And it is significant because two Provi is already out,
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: so to provise your starting lock alongside Scott Barrett's and
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: then two Plow is your man off the bench. So
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: two locks down and it's not an area of great
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: strength and depth for New Zealand rugby. So Sam Therey
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: comes into the mix. But I think you lose a
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: lot of physicality too. Pro Vi strong at the breakdown.
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: He's called the line out in recent years, and Patrick
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: two polo to big, physical, strong, calm presence off the bench.
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: So two big blows, two big blows.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: Absolutely. Sam Derry comes into the squad probably thought he
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: should have gone closed in the first place. I think
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: he's got a bit more about him than Josh Lord,
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: but they went with Lord and now probably both of
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: them are going to get a bit of game time
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: on this end of year tour. Whether Derry comes straight
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: in and replaces to Plot two for that bench role
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: is going to be interesting, or whether they believe that
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: Josh Lord can fulfill it. But neither I would say,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: like for like in terms of that bench impact that
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: is offered.
• 2:40
  Speaker 4: No, not at all. And look, Lord's a guy that's
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: been around that environment for a number of years now
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: but is perennially injured, so wouldn't be surprised to see
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: him take a knock on this tour and potentially need
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: another replacement. But you'd think that he's ahead of Darry
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: and the queue for that bench role and it's a
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: big ass for him to come in and lead the
• 3:04
  Speaker 4: bench in the same manner that to Polotu has in
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: recent time.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Here's one for you. Could they use Semer Penny female,
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: who interestingly has been listed as lock cover for the squad.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: Is that bench player that impact role can obviously also
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: play sex as well that maybe toy p Lot two.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Is he more on that toy p Lot two vibe
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: than perhaps a Darry or a Lord.
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I think he is is a good points. His
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: versatility has probably been an asset that's seen him retained
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: in the squad. We haven't seen a lot of some
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: Penny female at all this season. I think he I
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: thought he was reasonably impressive in the third Test against
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: France and Hamilton, but I don't think he's featured since
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: and it does elevate him. And the issue with Summer
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: Pennie is he's not a Locke's not his first choice
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: role and you give up a bit of height, so
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: you're sacrificing physicality and power and ball carrying. That's what
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: he brings for lineout ability, so at the back end
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: of a test set piece is really important. I'm not
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: saying some of Penny Finale isn't proficient at the lineout,
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: but that little bit of heights can make a big difference.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: Ye him coming through and being pointed out to me,
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: I think by Steve Gordon Formal Black's Lock himself that
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: he was a real up and comer and largely him
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: playing lock to that point, but just doesn't have that
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: height to play at Test level, I don't think on
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: a regular basis, but they may be able to compensate
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: for that some way if he's coming off the bench.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: Your thoughts on that all Black squad that was named
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: on Monday Initially very few surprises in that All Blacks squad.
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: Those hunting for bolters would be largely disappointed. What did
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: you make of that squad?
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right, it was highly predictable, wasn't it. There's
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: probably two selections that stand out. I guess George Belle
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: coming in for Brody McAllister, and I don't see that
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: as a surprise. Brody struggled this year off the bench
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: in two tests, in particular with his line out throwing,
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: and George bell has been injured for much of the
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: Chris season. Was probably ahead of Brody, Butts just hadn't
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: had the game time, so that change sort of makes sense.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: Suffer Alma I would have ahead of them both, but
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: he's struggling with concussions, didn't play a lot for Wellington
• 5:24
  Speaker 4: this season. And then there was the final line call
• 5:27
  Speaker 4: between Josh Lords and Sam Darry, which is now a
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: bit negligent because they're both going to be in the squad,
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: so no great surprises. I would have liked to have
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: seen them evolve this squad a bit more guys like
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: Seva Reese. I think his time's done. I think I
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: would have wanted to see a tonguey towel a fee hackey,
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: like give someone an opportunity. But I can understand the
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: thinking and that those guys will probably benefit more from
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: game time with the all Blacks fifteen. What about you?
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Is there anyone else that you wanted to see in
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: the squad or left out of the squad?
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: For me, I think they're obviously carrying Finlay Christie and
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: I've seen comments from Justin Marsh and others. Look, I
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: don't think Phila Christy's going to be there in twenty
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: twenty seven, and so you're carrying him. But as an
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: insurance policy, I guess it's.
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: A bit like Peter and Nara to an extent last year.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if you know, I don't think he's going to
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: see too much game time on this tour. He might
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: play against Wales potentially off the bench, but it's an
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: insurance policy and they want to see the likes of
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: those halfbacks that are getting game time with the All
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: Blacks fifteen. In Kyle Preston, who obviously met his debut
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: this year. Zavia Row hasn't in Flafakataba, but his time
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: has come again after three years out in the All
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: Blacks wilderness. You know, get some game time for them
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: under the belts. You suspect on the basis of that
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: that all three of them will probably start a game
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: each and they'll rotate bench rolls around that, whereas Phila
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Chresty's probably not going to get much more than twenty
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: minutes if plans roll out as expected across this tour.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: So I can see it from that perspective, but I
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: also think at some point you've got to reward those
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: players with that all spot.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, it's all very well being rewarded with an All
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: Blacks fifteen position, and that's great because you're going to
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: get more game time, but the All Blacks are the pinnacle,
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: and by carrying players that maybe aren't deserving of it,
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: or maybe I'm not going to be there in twenty
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: twenty seven, I don't know whether it cheapens the juzy necessarily.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: And I can understand the logic to an extent that
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: you want to get these game players with more game time,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: but I also think the All Blacks should be the
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: top echelone, not a play place where basically you're selecting
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: the best training partners and the best backups to the backups,
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: et cetera.
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think your pointvant the relevance there is to
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: the twenty twenty seven World Cup, and yes, you live
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: in the here and now, Yes you need a win now,
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: but some of those guys aren't going to be there
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: in two years time. So if you're not pulling the
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: trigger now, then win. And it does feel like there's
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: that inherent conservatism in Scott Robertson's selections. He's slow to react.
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: You look at a guy like Leroy Carter. He was
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: him and Ammonia best wings in Super Rugby Pacific this year.
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: Leroy Carter only selected in the Rugby Championship squad as
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: injury cover and he has made an instant impact and
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: it just takes them a bit long to get there.
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: And that's the feeling, isn't it. Around guys like Seva,
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: Reese f and Lake Christie, it feels like you're a
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: wee bit stuck in the mud. You're not evolving, you're
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: not a moving forward, you're not progressing. So I agree,
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: and you could widen that out. You know, there's a
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: number of guys that it does feel like last chance saloon. Maybe.
• 8:43
  Speaker 4: I think Rikwani still has value with his versatility, but
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: he's got to be on notice. Luke Jacobson hasn't featured
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: in recent times. I thought he was good for Wakato
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: the other night, other than his yellow card. Yeah, so
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: there's a lot of guys were points to prove, a
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: lot of guys that potentially aren't going to see a
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: lot of game time unless his injuries, and I think
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: we are going to see players move between the All
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: Blacks and the All Blacks fifteen. A guy like Ruben
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: Love as a classic example, he should be potentially starting
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: at ten for the All Blacks fifteen. I know Josh
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: Jacobs there and Rivers Rahana, but there's that week in
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: England in particular, I think England d Ay, the same
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: week that the All Blacks play England. I think you
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: will see a bit of shifting of squad members between
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: those two teams.
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: Interestingly, no Dylan Pledger in the All Blacks fifteen. Now,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: there had been obviously calls for him. He's been an
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: exceptional form for Otago during the NBC obviously came off
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: of the New Zealand Under twenties campaign as well. At
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: one point it looked like he was going to be
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: included and that would have been a big selection, but
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: instead he has been left out and will spend getting
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: the off season I guess a couple weeks behind is
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: before Christmas and then getting into it proper do you
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: think it's the right call to take a step back
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: and go what's the best long term development or would
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: you have liked to see him in that All Blacks
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: fifteen squad.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: I would have liked to have seen him in this
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: All Black fifteen squad. I think he's ready now. I've
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: seen enough of him to believe that he can be elevated,
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: and I think he would benefit from the exposure to
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: different conditions, different opposition, being on tour. All those things
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: are very valuable, and it is different to being in
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: an under twenties environment playing grom Men, experiencing a sold
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: outs stadium in bath or These sort of opportunities don't
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: come around every day, so I would have liked to
• 10:42
  Speaker 4: have seen him in that environment. I can also understand
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: the logic. I don't think there necessarily any bias, but
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: maybe some people will see it that way. With Joseph
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: coaching the Highlanders, if he goes on that All Blis
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: fifteen tour, I think he will then have a mandated
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: rest and have to come back quite late, probably late January,
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: even into a super rugby squad. So it's not the
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: best preparation for his rocky Super Rugby season.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well it was interesting that. Yet Falafakatava is going
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: and Dylan Pledge is not from that holland he's probably
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: maybe Jammie Joseph didn't want to lose two Highlanders half
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: backs from his preseason. Potentially, I don't know, but I agree.
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: Look, he's deserving of a place place there.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: To me, he's already in the best six half backs
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: in the country. And yes, you can wait NBC lower
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: than Super Rugby and he hasn't made his debut there.
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: But and I'm not comparing him to Richard McCall, but
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: I wonder now is there the place? And yes, rugby's
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: moved on since two thousand and one when mccormad his debut,
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: but he came out of NBC having not played Super
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Rugby and debuted for the All Blacks and was you know,
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: the best player on debut is man to the match
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: on debut against Ireland in two thousand and one. As
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: I said, rugby's moved on. But since the end of
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: pathways everything like that, But it feels like over the
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: last twenty plus years that would just simply no longer happen.
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: You want a defined pathway and there's no room for
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: players to come out of the gates in NBC and
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: you know, shock the world and all of a suddenly
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: on the end of view tour.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: Well, I think the question is around this All Blacks
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: fifteen team. What's its purpose? Is it a team masquerading
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: development for retention? Is it a carrot to keep Adulton
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: Puppa Lee interested or you know, you look at guys
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: like Brandon en Or and Dallas McLeod, how much you're
• 12:32
  Speaker 4: actually learning by taking those sort of guys away on
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: a tour like this when you could be really promoting
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: the next generation. You know, I think of a guy
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: he's injured at the moment, but Riley Higgins, you know
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: that sort of caliber or age profile. I think they
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: would get more from that. And that's where the push
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: for Dylan Pledger. Just get him involved, accelerate his development,
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: expose him to all these different environments and I think
• 13:00
  Speaker 4: you'd get more from that than a Super rugby preseason.
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: So what's your view on how this All Black fifteen
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: team should be selected? What is its purpose?
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: Well? Yeah, its purpose is spreading the All Blacks gospel,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: isn't it around the globe? And you know, enhancing commercial
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: opportunities for for New Zealand rugby. They've got three games
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: on this tour, England, a Bath and Uruguay they're going
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: to play against. Those are three revenue streams of the
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: All Blacks. Yes, it's a carrot for some of these
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: players to stay a bit longer. I think the usage
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: of the All Blacks fifteen is confusing. I would prefer
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Junior All Blacks or an All Blacks A or something
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: like that to the Alla sifteen. It doesn't read well.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: I don't think overseas when you're trying to interpret it.
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: I've seen it misinterpreted a lot of times online and
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: perhaps that's a then problem, but that's by the bye.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: I would like to see it, you know, give opportunities
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: to youth. But at the same time you mentioned those
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: crossover players. If you're bringing in younger players who prescribed
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: aren't ready for the All Blacks but are ready for
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: All Blacks fifteen, you can't have that crossover as much.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: If there's a midfield to injured on the end of
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: your tour. While Brandonan was there and ready to go
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: and he's play All Blacks rugby before David HARVILLI same
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: with him, so I don't have a perfect answer for that,
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: but I would have liked to see a little bit
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: more youth. You know, someone like Lucas Casey has been
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: exceptional for the for Otago and again hasn't played him,
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: hasn't played super rugby. It may he make it found
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: out at super rugby level or maybe the making of
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: him by going on the All Blacks fifteen to him
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: may play the house down and go. This guy's ready
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: for big opportunity. So I would have you know, I
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: know Scrolls and mentioned some bolters there. I don't know,
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: there's too many bolters in that All Blacks fifteen squad.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: There's some tried and true faces and yeah, so it's
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: hard to define the purpose of it other than, you know,
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: basically taking sixty players on tour and being able to
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: rotate some of those options in and out.
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think we did see last year Fabian Holland,
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: see Carrefi and Reuben Love. We've talked about players going
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: from the All Blacks to the All Blacks fifteen, but
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: those guys went the other way, spent time in All
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: Blacks camp and then in the case of Carrife and
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: Fabian Holland, graduate to full squad members. Hollins impressed everyone
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: with his training etiquette and how quickly he picked everything
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: up at the back end of last year, So that
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: purpose I completely understand. But I would like to see
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: this team from a selection point of view, the All
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: Blacks fifteen weighted far more heavily in favor of youth development.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: I think those sort of players would get much more
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: from the exposure up north than a Dallas McLeod type
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: character who's been around a long time. You know what
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: you're going to get, you know his style of play. Realistically,
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: he's not likely to be called into the All Blacks
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: as well, So go a bit younger and expose those guys,
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: give them an opportunity. That's where I would like to
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: see the selection purpose of that team sit.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: I think there's some I think when you look at
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: that All Black squad, there are some If you lose
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: the top players, there are some real question marks around
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: who's next. You know, Simon Parker goes down with No. Two,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: you've got Semipeni Feen now. But I don't think there's
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: a lot of depth at six. I also don't think
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of depth at second five. Jeordi Barrackt's injured,
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Maybe move Clinton Pier and you could put anyone at center.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: You've got a few options there, but I don't think
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: you've got a ready made it almost Dallas mc cloud.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: That type of body is more what you're looking for,
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: you know, to lightful light replacement for Jordi Barrett. But
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: I think there are some issues around depth at the
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: All Blacks level, which I don't know that we rectified
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: on this end of year tour because they're going to
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: roll out their first choice team more often than not,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: maybe apart from Wales, and you know, that seems like
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: maybe the only opportunity where maybe they can tweak a
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: few things and look at players. But I don't know
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: how much we're going to learn about and maybe it's
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: not about learning. It's about willing obviously, but about building
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: you know, four four four across this tour.
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a good point. And it's not just that
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: the depths not there, it's the drop off, right. So
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: we've talked about two below too and VI and the
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: next keep off the rank you mentioned second five and Blindside.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: While we've spoken about Locke, we've seen the drop off
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: at Hooker when you get a few injuries. First five
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: is another one. Obviously Richie's Richie Wong is coming home
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: next year. But without given these players the exposure and opportunity,
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: they're not going to grow. And that's we've spoken about
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: around Ruben Love and the fact that he hasn't played
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: ten for the All Blacks yet. So they need opportunity,
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: they need exposure. And Scott Robinson's brought in nineteen rookies
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: in the past well eighteen months, and that is around
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: that four four to four plan. But there is a
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: big difference between ten minutes off the bench and twenty
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: thirty caps, So I don't think there's going to be
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: many opportunities to rotate on this tour. Players are probably
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: only going to get chances through injuries and maybe in
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: that final Test against Wales.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was interesting hearing him talk yesterday when you
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: name the squad around the greatest rivalry tour and the
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: probably taking forty plus players there and seventeen games with
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks next year with those tour games against
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: the likes of the USC side, so there's an opportunity there,
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: But by that point you're just over a year away
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: from the World Cup, and yeah, There'll be opportunities there
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: to have some midweek games and give players, you know,
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: All Blacks experience, but again you're taking forty plus players.
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: There'll be to probably define midwek group and a test group,
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: but you can't wait for that opportunity, I don't think
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: to get these players on the park.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: Oh and opportunities at this level are so limited, aren't they?
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: And the All Blacks have missed opportunities when you go
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: back to last year, in particular to evolve the group
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: and to make changes. I think they've been better in
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: their area this year. We've seen them mate changes for
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: the third Test against France and the most recent Bledislow.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: Four of the sevens darting changes were injury and forced,
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: but some of those players really stepped up, and I
• 19:13
  Speaker 4: think we need to see a bit more of there,
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: and we need to see them be a bit more
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: brave and bold.
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Any any further comments on that too? Before we kept
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: taking quick break? Take a quicker break? Excuse me on
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: RAPI direct.
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: What is it the best sixty six players in New
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: Zealand And and what does that tell you about where
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: the game's at?
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: Well?
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: I think it is the best sixty six I mean
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: there's a few injuries, for one, and that would change
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: the complexion of that group. And no, because you know,
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: I think Dylan Pleagure is doing the right to be
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: in that top six half backs in the country at
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: this point in time. I think there's probably a few
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: others that you could quibble over as well, and so yeah,
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: I would say.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: No, yeah, yeah, I think Pleasures should be there. I
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: think that's a misstep. But he's probably also a guy
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: that could come in and take Super rugby by storm
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: next year and potentially go straight into the all blacks environment.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: I think he really is that good and NPC is
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: a couple of ruings down, but he just seems to
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: have time and composure and the full box of tricks
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: and speed to the base. I think he's a real
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: point of difference that they will look to enhance. And
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: they've got Noah Hotham and court his at Artimo behind
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: cam royguard. But as we sit here now, I think
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: Dylan Pledger will be really knocking on the door. I
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: think he will be in the World Cup squad.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. He's a young bloke, hasn't played Super Rabia level,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: but looks to have the entire package. Just back to
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: sever Reese, we were talking about him before. He's not
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: going to get a lot of game time. I don't
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: think on those two, barring injuries. There's been a lot
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: of clamoring for Caleb Toungy Tower potentially from what I
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: saw of the NPC this year. For Auckland, I thought
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: he was found out defensively on a number of occasions,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: and I think that's a big work on in his game.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: But I think that raw ability on the attacking side
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: is something that they want to harness. Fihaki is another one.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, in terms of an aerial threatening
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: what Test rugby is at the moment, he's probably you know,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: one of the tor swingers going around, would have liked
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: to see him maybe in the mix. But you know,
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: for me, it feels like hang on to sev Reese
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: just a little bit too long. He's only contracted twenty
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: twenty six of New Zealand rugby. It feels like he's
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: been given up on on at Test level at this point.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Now he may get an opportunity on this end of
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: the year tour, but it feels like they hang on
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: to him, and this probably circles back to the earlier point,
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: to be a training partner more than actually being a
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: prospect for the twenty twenty seven World Cup.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: What's an unwillingness to take a chance on someone and
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: to stick with someone too long. That's been there. But
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: the signs were there this time last year on the
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: Alblex Northern Tour when Sevu had a couple of brain
• 22:07
  Speaker 4: explosions and he was gas in that French test. That
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: was a real stark image of a winger not in
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: his prime. So and then when you see some of
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: these all blacks go back to provincial rugby, you'd expect
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: them to dominate. And yes, it's not necessarily easy to
• 22:24
  Speaker 4: go straight back in and fit into a system that
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: you haven't been a part of and gel with teammates immediately.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: But we've seen it with some players. As I mentioned before,
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: Luke Jacobson was really good, but others like sie Vorice
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: when he went back to Southland, he looked like he
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: was stuck in the MUDs. Even Riquewuani going back to Auckland,
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: he didn't do anything. Really. I thought Antonina Brown didn't
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: really show out for Waikato. So some of these guys
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: that are on the periphery of the All Blacks, then
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: went back to provincial rugby and haven't stepped up as
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: you'd hope, so I think that's another telltale sign as
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: well to.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: Papel, I think has been very good for counties this
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: year and had to slim to eight with Hoskins to
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: two do add injured another string to his by I
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: mean you can play six, he can play eight, He
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: can play obviously open side flanker. To me, he's got
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: more of an upside at this point in time than
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: Luke Jacobson, especially in a bench capacity for the All Blacks,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: So I would have liked to see him perhaps coming
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: to that main squad, but not to be right. We'll
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: wrap it up there for the first half of the podcast.
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: Come back second half after this plenty to get stuck
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: into in the Final four.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: Ever try try and sixty sec every tackle tackles get.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Up again, well I take him before.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: Times Rugby Direct, Ladies talk, Welcome back to the Final
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: four on Rugby Direct. Pound by four kule of solutions
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: lifting you and your business to a higher level for
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: rugby topics In fact, five. We'll get into the first
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: one though. N PC semi finalists set and it's teams
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: one to four who qualified. No upsets per se. But boy,
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: that was a great weekend of NPC quarter finals from
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: Friday night right through to Sunday afternoon, all four games delivered.
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: I mean, I know, the Bay of Plenty blew out
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Tasman in the end, but that was compelling in a
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: way as well. So great weekend for the NPC and
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: the semi finals are set up quite nicely.
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: Oh his magic, wasn't it? And I think the NPC
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: is still the essence of New Zealand rugby. You know,
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: defense isn't as sophisticated and suffocating. So some magic ball
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: and play and then just some dramatic finishes with Counties
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: pushing Canterbury to extra time and cam Miller slot in
• 24:45
  Speaker 4: that penalty what fifty meters out absolutely clutch kick. So yeah,
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: the magic of the NPC really really come into the
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: four and I think I'm on the Otago bamwagon. Actually
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: it's good to have.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Well South Islands, we'll take that as a whole. People
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: want to see Otago Canterbury final.
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: Well I'm not sure about that. Has taking a real
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: leap of faith there.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: No, I think the people fine large, I mean, oh tuggle,
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Look as long as it's in the South Island, we
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: don't need these mythical bays. Don't worry about that. Topy
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: number two. R three sixty takes a hammer below a
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: whole bunch of unions last week saying that we will
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: not pick players out of R three sixty should this
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: competition start. I mean, no surprises from New Zealand Rugby.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: They don't pick anyone outside of Super Rugby, so no
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: surprise with them. But some of those other unions signing
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: up basically a big blockade in the way, And to me,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: it puts R three sixty into a corner of being
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: a rebel league and that's probably not a place they
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: want to be because it makes you know, I'm sure
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: when they've been signing up players or getting expressions of
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: interest in the background, there would have been a lot
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: of talk saying, hey, you still be able to play
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: test rugby. You know, we want to align with the regulation.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Nine windows will release you for that, no trouble at all.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: But when those unions are saying we won't pick them,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: it paints them as a rebel league and now becomes
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: very very difficult, I think to recruit players.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: It does, yeah, and it heightens the pressure to recruit
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: NRL players, fringe super rugby players, and that significantly diminishes
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: your ability to market this league to captivate fans, and
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: that was always going to be a struggle anyway. I've
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: had a lot of discussion about this, even with mates,
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: and one of them compared it to the IPL and
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: I was like, well, yes, but absolutely not, because the
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: IPL had a captivated fan base, rabid cricketing fan base,
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: and personally I don't actually have a lot of interest
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: in the IPL either. But this concept are three six
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: is talking about a traveling circus going around Barcelona and Dubai,
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: and I just can't see it's capturing fans. And they're
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: now in a situation where they're going to have to
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: effectively survive for two years through to the twenty seven
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: World Cup, when a whole host of players may actually
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: take a look at it and look at cashing out.
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: But can they survive that long? As I think there's
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: a consortium eight eighty five that are bank rolling it,
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: have they got the capital to stick with it? Will
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: it survived two years. Really, it's a long long runway
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: to get off the grounds and are going to be
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: losing money hand of a fist, aren't they.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: That may not matter to them depending on who the
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: investors are, they may be prepared to wear that, but
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: it takes that machine off the league. I think in
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: terms of you might be able to get a big
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: fish if they're still able to play tests rugby, you
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: might be able to and then you know, you get
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: one fish, you might be able to get two or
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: three more. At the moment, you're probably going to get
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: what Ryan Papenhou's and rod to ty vasishek. Well, I
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: can see these well, could have seen these players in
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: the NRL week in week out playing a competition that
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: was much more interesting.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: And they're a big deal in Australasia.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: Who really knows about them in Barcelona or do By?
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah? And yeah is anyone going to go along? And
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: I just don't see what the selling point is for
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: viewers in New Zealand and Australia to watch this. You
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: look at in New Zealand, there's not the market for
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: anything outside of Super Rugby and the NPC. In terms
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: of competitions, the English Premiership I think is on Sky,
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: but virtually no one watch it. Barely anyone here watches
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: the Six Nations. The USC is not on TV anymore,
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: the French Top fourteen's not on TV. The Japanese thing,
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: I think you get one game a week through Rugby Pars.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: It's for the really die hard fan that wants to
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: watch that. So if you're not watching any of these
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: overseas leagues, now, why would you watch R three sixty
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: with a bunch of players that you know you've previously
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: watched in NRL and other competitions.
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: I don't get it, that's right, it's going to struggle
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: to get cut through. One interesting I've heard around R
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: three six is that they're not going to have a
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: broadcast and necessarily there's going to go on YouTube and
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: try and I guess grab fans that way. And that's
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: probably a smart play for a new entring into the market,
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: and that would allow content creators and maybe to capture
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: attention via social media. That's something that's traditional rugby doesn't
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: do well. It's very restrictive and what it allows people
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: to clip up and to show on socials and all
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: those sorts of things. So maybe that's a feather in
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: the cap, but it still has to get off the ground.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: It still has to have people that you want to watch,
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: and it still has to produce a decent product.
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: It does. Topic three. Josh shakumsigns for the Highlanders in
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: twenty twenty seven. Interesting on both sides of this. The
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: factor that's come out now there's been a bit of
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: chatter that they Chiefs, that Honders wanted the Chiefs to
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: release him. Jacob wanted to go. Even some of the
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: quotes and the media release seem pretty pointed to the
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: fact that maybe they can try and get him early.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: But as it stands, twenty twenty seven a good signing
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: for the Highlanders, but they're going to have to wait.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: As it stands, what do you think is a possibility
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: a deal might get done.
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: There great signing for the Highlanders and great move for Josh.
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: Jacob had to happen. He has stagnated, we haven't seen
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: enough of him and he pretty much not wasted, but
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: he's been on ice and we've seen again another rung
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: down at provincial level. But just how influential he can
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: be and he could be a game changer for the
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: Highlanders with some of those other young guys coming through
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: as a real momentum building down there with some of
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: the recruitments. I don't see the Chiefs releasing him early.
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: It's not in their interests. I can understand why Jacob
• 30:56
  Speaker 4: would want to go, but I think he's also a
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: professional and he'll dig in and do his part for
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: the Chiefs. But for the benefit of the competition and
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: the individual and the case Jacob, I think the Chiefs
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: probably should release them, but it's not in their interests,
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: not in their interests.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: But they did from memory get Joshuvani early out of
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: the Highlanders. I think he was released from the Highlanders
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: when was that twenty twenty one ish to go up
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: a year early to the Chiefs. So it has gone
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: the other way, and you know, different coaches, different management
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: in place, and.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: You know, well, same case with Brady McAllister.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: This year they've got Bradie Mcalliss there. So yeah, it's
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: not in their interest And we're far, far, far, far
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: far far down the track for planning for Super Rugby.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: A lot of signings have been made et cetera. For
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: for next year. They may not have a really made replacement.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: But for me yeah, you know it's gone up to
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: the Chiefs. Maybe they should just returned the favor and
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: you know down South would have been perhaps the noble
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: thing to do, but you know they're for their own interest.
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: I guess, yeah, I guess if you're John and Gibbs
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: coming into your first year's head coach, you want all
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: the depth fifteen Yeah you can.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: I guess when you've lost four finals whatever it is
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: in a row, you need every possible answer that you
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: can out topic cup. Before Carter Gordon returns to the
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: Wallaby's one nrral game look at a pretty horrible and
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: drum and a weird way. You're great signing for the
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: ends after for Australian Rugby, getting him back and you know,
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: the player of immense promise. I think for both the
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: Reds and the Wallabies. I think he could have had
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: a pretty good league career if it wasn't for the
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: fact he basically got hamstrung so to speak, by the
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: back injury that he suffered this year, only got one
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: game and he's got the league build. To me, would
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: have been quite interesting to see how he goes there.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: But in terms of that path towards twenty twenty seven.
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying he's the chosen one, but I think
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: it's a bit of a boost for the depth of
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Leskis in both the Reds roll next year and also
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: when he takes over the Wallabies.
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: It was a massive indictment on Australian rugby and the
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: Eddie Jones era that he departed in the first place,
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: because yeah, he looked the goods and he still had
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: some developments in terms of game management, but he has
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: build his boots, his ability to challenge the line. It's
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: no surprise that the Wallabies have immediately put him back
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: in that squad, and interestingly, with Tom Liner, they're not
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: taking him on the Northern Tour to give him a
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: chance to recover. I think he's still twenty two years old,
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: but a big win for Rugby Australia and the Reds. Interestingly, again,
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: Carter Gordon and Tom Lion are going head to heads
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: for the ten jersey. Probably not ideal. Maybe Gordon could
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: play twelve or Line could play fifteen and a pinch
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: there is some depth in that Red's environments. Yeah, I guess,
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: on reflectioning, a bit of a shame that Gordon effectively
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: lost two years of his career by going to league.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it took a punt on it didn't work out.
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: Titan's Scotch have changed all sorts of changes there. Don't
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: blame for coming back, but yeah, real shame because you know,
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: if he had a full year in the saddle, two
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: years in the saddle, who knows.
• 34:00
  Speaker 4: Where could have been starting at against the lines.
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so probably kicking himself over that a little bit
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: in retrospect before we go this probably last time was
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: each other face to face before Chicago. So give us
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: your Grand Slam predictions.
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: Well, I think it's important to note the context. No
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: Grand Slam for the Ax for fifteen years, they've won
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: five in history. Well, first of all, there's a bit
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: of chat about this. Is it a Does it qualify
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: as a Grand Slam tour? With the All Blacks and
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: Island playing in Chicago?
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: I think it does. I don't think you can behold
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: rugby in twenty twenty five to the same standards as
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: previous years. Rugby's completely changed. It's not like they're playing
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: all four away or in neutral venues. I think you
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: can still classified as a Grand Slam and going about
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: twenty five years, the idea of the All Blacks playing
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: Island Chicago would have been preposterous or about fifty it
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: certainly would have been preposterous. But this is the way
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: we're in now, and it's a game where you know
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: they're both on the ticket. No one's home team. To me,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: I think it's still cancers to Grand Slam.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a much harder game for the All Blacks
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: if it's in Dublin, so it's an easier Grand Slam
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: Tour on paper. But it is a modern world and
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: it's not like the All Blacks are forcing Island to
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: go to Chicago. This is a mutually beneficial match for
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: both unions. Are both going to probably take walk away
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: of a million bucks each. And yeah, this is a
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: modern environment and it's pretty common every year, so I
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: think we'll see more Grand Slam Tours like this in
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: the future. So for me, it does still qualify. Prediction wise,
• 35:46
  Speaker 4: I don't think they get the Grand Slam. I don't
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: think on the basis of what we've seen this year,
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: I could sit here and predict that they are. I
• 35:52
  Speaker 4: think they lose at least one test on this tour.
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: What say you?
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: I think they do as well? I can't tell you
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: which game, but I just think, similar to you, that
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: string together full performances in a row is going to be.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: Difficult, particularly with some of those injury out. You're starting
• 36:11
  Speaker 4: to test depth in important areas.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: Having said that, with all due respect to our Welsh listeners,
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: if they get to three on the board, I'm not
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: sure that the Welsh will stop them getting the Grand Slam.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: But stranger things have happened.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: That's right. The Scotland Test worries me a little bit.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: Scotland never beat the All Blacks. They've knocked over England
• 36:29
  Speaker 4: a lot in recent times. In Edinburgh. It'll be cold,
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: it'll be dark. I remember, I think it was the
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: last All Black Test there under Ian Foster and the
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: All Blacks were right up against it for sixty odd minutes.
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: And does this All Black team have the ability to
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: pull it out in the last twenty because you know,
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: Scotland at home are a difficult prospect.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Last time they were there in twenty two as well
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: Mark Talas scoring on debut, they got themselves out of
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: it a little bit of a hole there. You know,
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: Scotland are a good team, really good team. So yep,
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: it sounds I think they'll lose one of those games,
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: but I don't know one. It'll be to us right,
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: We direct for another week thanks to Forklift Solutions lifting
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: you and your business to a higher level of thanks
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: as well to Carry Sure for producing this week. We
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: will see you next time.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: For more from News Talks ed B, listen live on
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.