Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / Find Your Unicorn Space: How to Reclaim Your Time, Feel More Joy, Get More Out of Your Life with Eve Rodsky (Part Two)

Transcript

Find Your Unicorn Space: How to Reclaim Your Time, Feel More Joy, Get More Out of Your Life with Eve Rodsky (Part Two) · QUESTION EVERYTHING

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Speaker 1: The following podcast is a Dear media production.
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Speaker 2: Big Things Happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
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Speaker 2: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe, and each week my guests
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Speaker 2: and I have conversations that put a new spin on
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Speaker 2: pretty this.
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Speaker 1: Is pretty smart.
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Speaker 2: Last week we talked with Eve about how to create
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Speaker 2: a quality on the home front so that you can
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Speaker 2: reclaim your time. This week, we're talking about how to
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Speaker 2: use that time to reclaim your life, how to figure
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Speaker 2: out what makes you you and share that with the world.
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Speaker 2: Eve's new book, Unicorn Space, is an inspirational guide for
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Speaker 2: setting new personal goals, rediscovering your interests, cultivating creativity, and
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Speaker 2: reclaiming what she calls your unicorn space. I have to
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Speaker 2: tell you, before we spoke, I felt like I had
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Speaker 2: the whole Unicorn Space thing down. I'm passionate about my
1:04
Speaker 2: job and this podcast gives me so much joy. But
1:08
Speaker 2: after this episode, I realized I needed to give myself
1:12
Speaker 2: permission to have fun. Eve says creativity is not optional,
1:17
Speaker 2: it's essential.
1:18
Speaker 1: I agree.
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Speaker 2: There are so many unexpected takeaways in this interview. I
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Speaker 2: can't wait to hear what your reflections are on Instagram,
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Speaker 2: DM me, message me, let me know what your unicorn
1:30
Speaker 2: space is. I hope this episode energizes you like it
1:33
Speaker 2: did me, to unleash your special gifts and undiscovered talents
1:38
Speaker 2: into the world. I know you have them and the
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Speaker 2: world needs them. I've heard you say that fair Play
1:49
Speaker 2: was the book that you were always meant to write,
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Speaker 2: and you strike me as a person who will not
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Speaker 2: jump in without diving, like headfirst and all in. So
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Speaker 2: why did unicorn space pour out of you?
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Speaker 1: It's a great question, and it's similar to fair Play,
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Speaker 1: which it was a book I was meant to write,
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Speaker 1: But I didn't have on my third grade board, right,
2:13
Speaker 1: what do you want to be when you grow up?
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Speaker 1: You know, gender division of labor specialists. I definitely didn't
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Speaker 1: have on that third grade board that I wanted to
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Speaker 1: sort of study the intersection of identity, productivity, and creativity
2:26
Speaker 1: in women or marginalized populations. But why it was so
2:30
Speaker 1: necessary to me was I felt like fair Play was
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Speaker 1: a real deep dive into the system, into systems, but
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Speaker 1: I still felt that my learning around the boundaries was
2:43
Speaker 1: still surface level. I needed to understand more about why
2:48
Speaker 1: it's so subversive to have permission to be unavailable from
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Speaker 1: our roles, Why is it that when I started to
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Speaker 1: write fair Play on Sundays, everybody, my entire community basically
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Speaker 1: shamed me and said, you wouldn't want to spend Sundays
3:02
Speaker 1: with your family and and your kid and your neglecting
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Speaker 1: seth and you don't have a book deal and probably
3:08
Speaker 1: nobody wants to buy or random book around something that's
3:11
Speaker 1: been talked about in the nineties. And women are in
3:13
Speaker 1: the labor force more than men and this is not relevant.
3:16
Speaker 1: And why are you interviewing a random couple from Mississippi
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Speaker 1: a conference line that you shouldn't even pay money two
3:23
Speaker 1: dollars a month for because your work is worthless, Like
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Speaker 1: it was just it was all these messages around starting
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Speaker 1: that was so hard for me because I had to
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Speaker 1: push back against so much, the permission to be unavailable,
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Speaker 1: the permission to burn, guilt and shame overhearing these messages
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Speaker 1: that I wasn't spending time with my family, that my
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Speaker 1: husband was going to go somewhere else, you know, to
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Speaker 1: find another woman because I was neglecting him, which is real.
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Speaker 1: People actually said that where you know, I couldn't use
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Speaker 1: my voice because I didn't even know what to say.
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Speaker 1: I didn't know what to call this thing. I didn't
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Speaker 1: want to call it a hobby. I didn't want to
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Speaker 1: call it a vanity project, and I want to call
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Speaker 1: it a passion project. And so I had to make
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Speaker 1: up a new term, which I call unicorn space. Because
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Speaker 1: the anecdote to burnout, as we said earlier, is being
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Speaker 1: interested in your own life and finding space for you.
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Speaker 1: But space wasn't enough. So the unicorn space is because
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Speaker 1: like the mythical equine, it doesn't fucking exist. It doesn't
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Speaker 1: exist unless we reclaim it. And so understanding how to
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Speaker 1: reclaim it and then what to actually reclaim because for
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Speaker 1: many women it's been so long since we actually got
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Speaker 1: to remember who we are was the crux of this book.
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Speaker 1: And it was so much more fun to talk to
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Speaker 1: women coming into their full power than it was to
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Speaker 1: talk to people about their damn division of labor and
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Speaker 1: their marriages. So this was really, for me, a fun
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Speaker 1: a really fun book to write.
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Speaker 2: To me, it felt like it would be a harder
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Speaker 2: book to write because we're so results based and this
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Speaker 2: it feels like there's ambiguous results or ambiguous joy that
5:02
Speaker 2: would come out of this. But I know that part
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Speaker 2: of why I identify with your work so much is
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Speaker 2: it's research based and so you spent time and happiness
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Speaker 2: labs correct, So what are some of these results and
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Speaker 2: how does reclaiming your identity and giving yourself permission increase
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Speaker 2: our joy?
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Speaker 1: That's a great question, and you're right, it is more
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Speaker 1: ambiguous because my first book, being a left brain person
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Speaker 1: who doesn't define themselves as creative is amazing, Danielle, because
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Speaker 1: I can actually come into your home and ask your
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Speaker 1: partner who's going to be the most amazing human ever
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Speaker 1: we know now? Or she is or they are? Where
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Speaker 1: I can actually say how many cards are you holding? Right?
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Speaker 1: It's the most tangible measurement of the system. Once you
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Speaker 1: sort of get onboarded, right, there's actual measurement. What was
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Speaker 1: hard about this book, Unicorn Space, is that it's not
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Speaker 1: when people say what is Unicorn space, it's actually not.
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Speaker 1: It's not an answer, right, It's a question back to you,
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Speaker 1: which is what makes you you? And how do you
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Speaker 1: share that with the world. And when I started asking
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Speaker 1: that question ten years ago, because I was watching the
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Speaker 1: overwhelm and burnout of fair play correspond with the loss
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Speaker 1: of identity and women, I started to ask this question, which,
6:22
Speaker 1: by the way, is now tied to people with EQ.
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Speaker 1: People with EQ ask more awkward, strange questions to strangers.
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Speaker 1: So that makes so much better. Yeah, that's your living.
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Speaker 1: So it's really good. Actually, a really really important skill
6:38
Speaker 1: for the world is that, you know, we ask deeper questions.
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Speaker 1: That's how we get to deeper understanding and empathy. So
6:43
Speaker 1: I will send you that study. So you're doing important work.
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Speaker 1: But what I started to ask when people would go
6:49
Speaker 1: into these conversations about what diaper bag to buy or
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Speaker 1: ooh did you see a new saline purse, which I
6:54
Speaker 1: actually didn't even know what I was like, is that
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Speaker 1: a person like I didn't My mother had us grow
7:00
Speaker 1: up not believing in possession, so I didn't understand. I
7:02
Speaker 1: didn't know till very recently what all these sort of
7:05
Speaker 1: the commodities were. And I would just say, well, can
7:09
Speaker 1: we just like I want to time out and I
7:11
Speaker 1: don't know you well, and okay, your name is Geanet,
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Speaker 1: so nice to meet you, so just tell me what
7:16
Speaker 1: makes you you and how do you share that with
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Speaker 1: the world. And you know, I would get people look
7:20
Speaker 1: at me like I was, you know, very very strange,
7:25
Speaker 1: very strange human, and sometimes they would slip off, or
7:29
Speaker 1: have a side conversation, or not want to come back
7:32
Speaker 1: and talk to me. But other times it led to
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Speaker 1: really deep and meaningful conversations where I heard from so
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Speaker 1: many people now over a decade that I have no
7:40
Speaker 1: idea how to answer that question. I don't know how
7:42
Speaker 1: to answer that question. So what this book is. It
7:46
Speaker 1: asks you a difficult question, but it's really a how
7:48
Speaker 1: to book to rEFInd that answer if it's lost, or
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Speaker 1: to come into that answer if you're supporting yourself and
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Speaker 1: who you want to become.
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Speaker 2: There's a quote that you say you had a conversation
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Speaker 2: with a colleague and they said, in my chase to
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Speaker 2: do it all and be it all, I lost myself somewhere.
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Speaker 2: That was so sad, and I think every woman has
8:13
Speaker 2: felt that. I heard Glennon Doyle say in a podcast
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Speaker 2: recently that the revolution is a well rested woman.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely, which I absolutely love.
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Speaker 2: That. You talk a lot about permission. How did you
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Speaker 2: give yourself permission? Because I think so often we wait
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Speaker 2: for either society or our friends, or our mothers or
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Speaker 2: someone to give it to us.
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Speaker 3: How did you find that yourself?
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Speaker 1: This is the irony? Everybody gives us permission? To be
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Speaker 1: whatever quote unquote we want to be, or they say
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Speaker 1: that they do until they don't. Yeah, And I think
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Speaker 1: that was what was so hard for me, was, Hey,
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Speaker 1: where are all those supportive people that were so proud
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Speaker 1: of me for when I got my Harvard Law degree?
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Speaker 1: And where are all those supportive people that were cheering
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Speaker 1: for me when I was on the amazing race and
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Speaker 1: all these supportive people that were really wanting me to
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Speaker 1: live a fulfilled life. Why are all those people asking
9:12
Speaker 1: me whether Zach is sleeping at night? And why are
9:15
Speaker 1: they asking me what stroller I decided to use? And
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Speaker 1: why are they telling me that the formula I'm using
9:21
Speaker 1: is a bad formula for him? And why are they
9:23
Speaker 1: telling me that I need to put plastic over the
9:27
Speaker 1: stroller so that his face doesn't get wet on the
9:29
Speaker 1: way to the pediatrician? And it was it was this
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Speaker 1: very shocking ten years left to live back to our
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Speaker 1: theme of understanding that everything that everyone told me was
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Speaker 1: a lie. No one actually cared anything about my growth
9:47
Speaker 1: and my success once I became a role And similar
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Speaker 1: to what Glennon said, my friend Anne Marie Slaughter, who
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Speaker 1: it was an old professor and she's a generation above me.
10:00
Speaker 1: And her new book is Your Professor. Yeah, yeah, how
10:03
Speaker 1: freaking cool is that? And she wrote her a lot. Yes,
10:08
Speaker 1: of course, she wrote her new book called Renewal. You
10:10
Speaker 1: should have her on. I think she's amazing. And what
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Speaker 1: she said to me when I asked her about her book,
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Speaker 1: and I said, you know, is it hard trying to
10:19
Speaker 1: write to all women? You know, do you focus on
10:22
Speaker 1: a subset or more privilege less privilege? How do you
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Speaker 1: look at that? And she said something really powerful to me,
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Speaker 1: which is that whether or not all women can relate
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Speaker 1: to me, I can relate to them because I know
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Speaker 1: that every single woman on this entire earth, at some
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Speaker 1: point in her life will be defined by her roles.
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Speaker 1: And that was so powerful to me because this book,
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Speaker 1: Find Your Unicorn Space is understanding that we deserve the permission,
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Speaker 1: like you said, to be more than our roles, and
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Speaker 1: we absolutely cannot wait for society to give it to us,
11:01
Speaker 1: because they do and then they take it away and
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Speaker 1: it feels terrible. So the point is, keep if you
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Speaker 1: hear those messages, if you're a lucky woman in Western
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Speaker 1: society who hears messages that say you can do and
11:16
Speaker 1: be whatever you want to be take it with a
11:18
Speaker 1: grain of salt. Listen to us and say that needs
11:22
Speaker 1: to apply to you throughout your whole life. Tattoo it
11:27
Speaker 1: on you, become part of a unicorn Space community, listen
11:31
Speaker 1: to this podcast Pretty Smart, or wherever, whatever spiritual friends
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Speaker 1: you hold on to, you give it to yourself because
11:39
Speaker 1: it will be taken away.
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Speaker 2: So as I was reading, I thought of two potential pushbacks.
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Speaker 2: Please I love that, right, and so I don't agree
11:50
Speaker 2: with them, but I could, I could hear them in
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Speaker 2: the ether, and I think the best arguments, like you know,
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Speaker 2: talk about those. So the first one is that's something
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Speaker 2: that requires privilege.
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Speaker 1: I think that that is Unicorn Space can sound very privileged, right,
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Speaker 1: But as my friend Natalie Nixon said, it was a
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Speaker 1: creativity strategist. What we actually know about creativity throughout the
12:15
Speaker 1: ages is that creativity loves constraints. And that's what showed
12:20
Speaker 1: up in my research as well. Frieda Callo, Georgia O'Keefe,
12:24
Speaker 1: these women, Virginia Wolf, they did not have easy circumstances
12:28
Speaker 1: in which to create. As we know, Freda was completely
12:32
Speaker 1: defined if you look at some of the old articles
12:34
Speaker 1: as just her husband's name. They never even gave her
12:38
Speaker 1: a name in the newspaper's husband's wife started to dabble
12:42
Speaker 1: in art, and it's the constraints actually make it even
12:47
Speaker 1: more important and more powerful. And so what I will
12:50
Speaker 1: say is that I actually found the opposite Danielle, which
12:53
Speaker 1: is that when I asked people to in the more
12:56
Speaker 1: in depth interviews, if they were willing to share what
12:59
Speaker 1: they classify themselves as in terms of economic status, lower
13:03
Speaker 1: middle class all the way to the one percent, to
13:06
Speaker 1: a working class, it did not correlate to people who
13:11
Speaker 1: were in the one percent of this country identifying what
13:15
Speaker 1: makes them them and how they share.
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Speaker 2: With the world.
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Speaker 1: It was the opposite. It was that people with less
13:20
Speaker 1: financial privilege were able to say my community with my church,
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Speaker 1: my chess game in Washington Square Park. It was actually
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Speaker 1: the opposite. I think what happens is that as we
13:32
Speaker 1: gain more power status privilege in this country, capitalism makes
13:37
Speaker 1: us think we need to spend more time acquiring things
13:41
Speaker 1: or making ourselves look more like people look on Instagram.
13:45
Speaker 1: And the more we spend time on that, the more
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Speaker 1: we are not well rested women. And so the revolution
13:51
Speaker 1: is to understand that your values happen no matter what
13:56
Speaker 1: type of privilege you have you were born, and you
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Speaker 1: evolve with your value and sticking true to those and
14:02
Speaker 1: pursuing activities that stay in line with those values. That's
14:07
Speaker 1: that's really important.
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Speaker 3: Thank you for that.
14:11
Speaker 2: The second one was, this sounds wonderful, but I don't
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Speaker 2: have time for this, and I think there's a little
14:19
Speaker 2: guilt wrapped up in there too for that.
14:23
Speaker 1: I think you know, I would love to I'm going
14:26
Speaker 1: to try to take some of my stories in the
14:28
Speaker 1: road with me, but I think Katrina Medina is a
14:32
Speaker 1: story I tell that. She's such a she is the
14:34
Speaker 1: ultimate tell your your listeners and your readers that you
14:39
Speaker 1: know the contraint creativity loves constraints. She had a very
14:43
Speaker 1: young toddler in her home. Her husband was an auto mechanic.
14:47
Speaker 1: She had a full time job at Sam's Club. When
14:50
Speaker 1: I tell you, this woman had no time. But what
14:53
Speaker 1: she did always make time for was for reading to
14:55
Speaker 1: her son at night. And her husband, Mario said to her,
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Speaker 1: you know, you have a really beautiful voice. I noticed
15:02
Speaker 1: that you don't read these books. You embody them, and
15:07
Speaker 1: I think you should narrate audio books. And she's like,
15:11
Speaker 1: what are you talking about. I have no time for
15:15
Speaker 1: looking into a hobby and he's like, no, no, I really
15:17
Speaker 1: think you should look into this. Well cut to you know,
15:21
Speaker 1: five years later, and she's a full time reader for
15:24
Speaker 1: the major publishing houses and she actually tattooed on her arm.
15:29
Speaker 1: Reading books is like breathing air. What she will say
15:34
Speaker 1: is that should I say to you, you're signing up
15:36
Speaker 1: for a life of burnout and boredom, overwhelm and boredom,
15:41
Speaker 1: because that's what I found in my research, Danielle. It
15:43
Speaker 1: wasn't just overwhelmed. People told me they were bored and overwhelmed,
15:47
Speaker 1: the worst combination you could ever think, right, that's burnout.
15:52
Speaker 1: And so her point was, what are you waiting for?
15:54
Speaker 1: That's not the life any of us signed up for.
15:56
Speaker 1: And so for her and her partner, it required. That's
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Speaker 1: why that's the fundamental book. It required their version. They
16:03
Speaker 1: didn't read fair Play, but their version of Mario taking
16:06
Speaker 1: over bed and bath time for his son three days
16:10
Speaker 1: a week. And she just started. She bought a microphone
16:13
Speaker 1: on clearance, she barred his laptop, and she started uploading
16:16
Speaker 1: her voice on all of these sites, and she started
16:19
Speaker 1: getting auditions. And most of us won't get paid for
16:22
Speaker 1: our unicorn space We're lucky we can, but that doesn't
16:25
Speaker 1: always happen. But the idea that she said I tried,
16:29
Speaker 1: I tried in the time when I had no time,
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Speaker 1: and my entire life change from that ability to try.
16:36
Speaker 1: We make time for other people, We very very rarely
16:40
Speaker 1: make time for ourselves, And so that would be my
16:44
Speaker 1: answer would be take a page from kat Katrina, my
16:48
Speaker 1: my favorite story and her tattoo that for her reading
16:52
Speaker 1: books is like breathing air. The back to life that
16:57
Speaker 1: came from carving the time out for this means you
17:01
Speaker 1: don't want to look at the opposite. But I kept saying,
17:03
Speaker 1: what were you before? What is the opposite of breathing air?
17:07
Speaker 1: We don't want to live that the opposite of breathing air.
17:11
Speaker 2: I better understand your words that creativity is not optional,
17:16
Speaker 2: it's essential. After hearing that story. You interviewed trailblazers, thought leaders, academics,
17:23
Speaker 2: countless real people who have discovered their unicorn space. And
17:30
Speaker 2: I know that from interviewing people for this podcast. There's
17:34
Speaker 2: certain people that I have learned so much from or
17:37
Speaker 2: taken a nugget and applied it to my own life.
17:40
Speaker 2: Is there somebody that you really learned from is there
17:42
Speaker 2: something that you applied to your own life.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say so many. I'm inspired by so
17:49
Speaker 1: many people, but I think I'm most inspired by the
17:52
Speaker 1: people who actually make unicorn space a physical space. What
17:57
Speaker 1: do you mean, because it's it's so beautiful to the
18:02
Speaker 1: biggest part of Unicorn Space is not that what makes
18:05
Speaker 1: you you, Danielle. It's the how do you share with
18:07
Speaker 1: the world. It's why it can't be a soul cycle class.
18:11
Speaker 1: It's why it can't be a run in the park.
18:13
Speaker 1: While that's important, right, because what it is, it's the
18:17
Speaker 1: act of pursuits that you share with the world that's
18:19
Speaker 1: linked to something called unimonic well being. It's a different
18:22
Speaker 1: type of happiness, spending time in those happiness labs. And
18:26
Speaker 1: what it means is that the connection to others is
18:29
Speaker 1: a big piece of what Unicorn Space is. And so
18:33
Speaker 1: for me, it's connecting with you. I consider you're a
18:35
Speaker 1: spiritual friend now, I really do, and hopefully we'll get
18:38
Speaker 1: to meets one day. But I feel that way with
18:42
Speaker 1: so many people in the community. When I wrote this
18:44
Speaker 1: shit I do spreadsheets. I connected to so many women
18:47
Speaker 1: that and writing their stories for this book, and men
18:52
Speaker 1: and non binary individuals as well. But I think for
18:55
Speaker 1: me it was Kalema de Suse. She's a woman who
19:00
Speaker 1: opened a bookstore called Cafe Cone Libros, and she's an
19:04
Speaker 1: Afro LATINX social worker and she has a social work
19:08
Speaker 1: practice and she teaches social work. She's my mother's student,
19:12
Speaker 1: and I know she's a very powerful teacher. She's a
19:15
Speaker 1: social change But her Unicorn space was to have a
19:21
Speaker 1: place where we can tackle hard topics, where we can
19:26
Speaker 1: bring together people around good coffee and books and really
19:31
Speaker 1: talk about racial trauma, racial justice, justice for marginalized people.
19:35
Speaker 1: And this was before what happened with the racial reckoning
19:39
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty with George Flood's murder, and so I
19:42
Speaker 1: thought that this space and then I became part of
19:44
Speaker 1: her community extended because she has a Cafe Cone Libros
19:48
Speaker 1: book club and so every month I wait to get
19:50
Speaker 1: a book and it's so surprising what I'm going to get,
19:53
Speaker 1: and she learns with her community, and I think she's
19:56
Speaker 1: really inspiring to me because that's really what I want.
19:59
Speaker 1: I want open a Unicorn space like that where people
20:04
Speaker 1: can come and learn from each other and have hard
20:06
Speaker 1: conversations and discourse, something that I feel like is not
20:10
Speaker 1: happening in our society today right when we sort of
20:13
Speaker 1: retreat into all of this echo chamber and fake news,
20:17
Speaker 1: how do we come together for community and conversation and
20:21
Speaker 1: learning and sharing. And So there was a place called
20:24
Speaker 1: New Yurekan Cafe growing up. It was this beautiful cafe
20:29
Speaker 1: in the Lower East Side where I would sneak into
20:31
Speaker 1: underage and listen to poetry slams and it was unbelievable.
20:35
Speaker 1: And that's what her bookstore reminds me of. So I
20:37
Speaker 1: think that's what inspires me. And I have a friend, Safatia,
20:41
Speaker 1: who created something called home Yoga, which is trauma based
20:45
Speaker 1: yoga for people who've been through trauma and understanding that
20:48
Speaker 1: yoga can be a healer, so she opened a trauma
20:51
Speaker 1: based studio. So I think I'm really finding the resonance
20:55
Speaker 1: and the people that actually have the physical spaces for
20:58
Speaker 1: where they're manifesting their own Unicordan space.
21:01
Speaker 2: And how special that this project, like part of the ethos,
21:05
Speaker 2: was connection to people and it brought you all these
21:06
Speaker 2: incredible people.
21:08
Speaker 1: Absolutely a and that is, by the way, the last
21:12
Speaker 1: piece of it. Because we talked about curiosity and connection.
21:18
Speaker 1: We see that in these stories. I'm talking about being
21:20
Speaker 1: curious about what my voice would sound like as a narrator,
21:23
Speaker 1: the connection, like Kalima did through Cafe con Libros. But
21:28
Speaker 1: I think the hardest part, and I'm sure you can
21:30
Speaker 1: attest to this too, is the last piece of the
21:32
Speaker 1: program of Unicorn Space, which I talk a lot about.
21:36
Speaker 1: I spent three chapters on it, basically, and that's the
21:38
Speaker 1: idea of completion. Completion is really hard because so many
21:43
Speaker 1: of us, as my friend said, live in a graveyard
21:46
Speaker 1: of unfulfilled dreams. And that's harsh, and it was harsh
21:50
Speaker 1: when she said it to me. But I think the
21:53
Speaker 1: opposite of that is the idea that we do not
21:57
Speaker 1: have to be perfect, as my friend Rushmasches Johnny says,
22:00
Speaker 1: we just have to be brave, and part of that
22:05
Speaker 1: is completion. My bravery is completion is completing something that
22:10
Speaker 1: I know is not perfect by any means, and I'm
22:13
Speaker 1: willing to hear the criticisms of it, and I'm willing
22:16
Speaker 1: to engage in dialogue. But ultimately it's better that the
22:20
Speaker 1: ideas are out there, and that is completion. And it's
22:24
Speaker 1: hard because we are all afraid of failing. We're afraid
22:27
Speaker 1: of criticism. Of course, or at least I am. But
22:29
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I'd rather complete than
22:32
Speaker 1: live in that graveyard.
22:36
Speaker 2: Me too, I do a little rapid fire at the
22:40
Speaker 2: end of every interview, and yours probably isn't so rapid
22:44
Speaker 2: because I had a lot of deep questions through you.
22:46
Speaker 3: But I'll try.
22:47
Speaker 1: I'll do rapid. I will do rapid. I won't give
22:50
Speaker 1: all the context, Okay, I mean, I will do rapid.
22:52
Speaker 1: I will do rapid.
22:53
Speaker 2: One is what would younger you not believe about your
22:55
Speaker 2: life today?
22:57
Speaker 1: That I could be a parent and also be a
23:00
Speaker 1: professional and also be interested in my own life. I
23:03
Speaker 1: think that younger me would be very surprised that I
23:06
Speaker 1: was able to rise from the ashes.
23:09
Speaker 2: You make me think it's possible, So thank you for that.
23:12
Speaker 2: What's a phrase that someone said to you that replays
23:15
Speaker 2: in your head often?
23:17
Speaker 1: What I said earlier to you about that Vivian Green quote.
23:19
Speaker 1: And I'm not an inspirational quote person, but what's been
23:22
Speaker 1: playing in my head a lot, especially now with everything
23:25
Speaker 1: that's happening, is again that idea that it will always
23:29
Speaker 1: rain on us. But life is not about waiting for
23:32
Speaker 1: the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in
23:34
Speaker 1: the rain and the umbrella. Is that that unicorn space,
23:38
Speaker 1: that that interest in your own life that only you
23:41
Speaker 1: can answer.
23:42
Speaker 2: What's the one thing that makes you uniquely you?
23:46
Speaker 1: Oh? Good? One connection? My connection and justice. As you'll
23:52
Speaker 1: see in the book, I go back to you always
23:54
Speaker 1: go back to your core guiding values, and for me,
23:57
Speaker 1: it's connection and justice.
24:00
Speaker 2: What's the biggest sacrifice you've had to make on your
24:02
Speaker 2: path to achievement?
24:04
Speaker 1: My brother he never got out so so much of
24:08
Speaker 1: being the firstborn. I was allowed to do things and
24:11
Speaker 1: have more resources and probably more love and less neglect,
24:16
Speaker 1: and a lot of his life sadly got sacrificed to
24:23
Speaker 1: the existence we had, living working class with a single mother.
24:26
Speaker 1: So I think about my brother a lot, and I
24:29
Speaker 1: hope you can have the best life he can have,
24:31
Speaker 1: and my mother and I are still supporting him in
24:34
Speaker 1: that and his journey to a fulfilled life.
24:38
Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing that.
24:41
Speaker 2: What are you still trying to prove to yourself?
24:44
Speaker 1: That I don't need to be my milestones, that I'm
24:48
Speaker 1: more than my milestones, that I deserve a milestone makeover,
24:51
Speaker 1: that the things that I was sold, whether it's power
24:55
Speaker 1: through sexualization, power through beauty, power through a certain body
25:01
Speaker 1: type power through being a good parent, that all of
25:04
Speaker 1: those I'm still pushing it back against all those milestones,
25:08
Speaker 1: and I want to make over my own always.
25:11
Speaker 2: I've never heard that term.
25:12
Speaker 1: I really like it.
25:15
Speaker 2: You've had so many meaningful moments since fair Play came out,
25:20
Speaker 2: just a few the fair Play card deck, you said
25:24
Speaker 2: your documentary is coming up, you were picked by Reese's
25:27
Speaker 2: book Club, fair Play's turning into a film, and you
25:31
Speaker 2: started a national movement, which to me is wild. Which
25:35
Speaker 2: one has meant the most to you? And it doesn't
25:38
Speaker 2: have to be the ones that I mentioned.
25:40
Speaker 1: I know this is going to sound like we're wrapping
25:41
Speaker 1: up on purpose this way, but it's exactly what we
25:44
Speaker 1: started with. It's your generation. It's women who are twenty
25:51
Speaker 1: to forty right now who say to me that I
25:57
Speaker 1: understand the concern and the surprise, and I understand that
26:01
Speaker 1: my time is diamonds. That there's nothing more meaningful than
26:06
Speaker 1: the aha moment of understanding that we don't need to
26:09
Speaker 1: be our toxic time messages that we can find a
26:13
Speaker 1: different narrative when we do it as a community, we
26:17
Speaker 1: can push back together. As we said earlier, we push
26:19
Speaker 1: back against those toxic time messages to ultimately get to
26:24
Speaker 1: a place where we have we don't need a place
26:26
Speaker 1: where we have to ask for permission.
26:29
Speaker 2: What is one book that should be required reading for
26:33
Speaker 2: every human being?
26:36
Speaker 1: Oh that's a tough one. I have one for every
26:40
Speaker 1: day of my life. But I will say that i've really,
26:45
Speaker 1: I'm really feeling my friend's book, The Creativity Leap right now.
26:50
Speaker 1: It's a book really important for me right now. It's
26:53
Speaker 1: her name is Natalie Nixon. I talked to you about
26:55
Speaker 1: her before. She's the one who talks about creativity meeting constraints,
26:59
Speaker 1: or love and constraints. But she has a beautiful part
27:03
Speaker 1: of her book around rigor, and the rigor of promoting
27:08
Speaker 1: a book, the rigor of taking going on stage again,
27:13
Speaker 1: batting off fear. She reminds me all the time that
27:18
Speaker 1: the road to creativity is not always paved with the
27:21
Speaker 1: flow state or those beautiful days. That a lot of
27:24
Speaker 1: what we do requires extreme rigors. So I would say
27:28
Speaker 1: for my required reading for now, I think The Creativity
27:31
Speaker 1: Leap is a beautiful book and you can you can
27:33
Speaker 1: get it anywhere. And Natalie Nixon, I hope you hear.
27:36
Speaker 1: This is a shout out to you and your beautiful work.
27:39
Speaker 2: So I have a card deck too. It's fifty two
27:41
Speaker 2: questions for deeper conversation. I love it, So tell me
27:44
Speaker 2: when to stop stop. Okay, oh wow, this is kind
27:50
Speaker 2: of hard.
27:52
Speaker 1: I like hard questions.
27:53
Speaker 2: Tell me something about yourself that sounds made up but
27:56
Speaker 2: is one hundred percent true.
28:00
Speaker 1: That I have so many crazy stories. Okay, I was
28:03
Speaker 1: escorted off a plane by a federal marshal because I
28:07
Speaker 1: thought I was poisoned by dots candy.
28:12
Speaker 2: Okay, So at some point I hope we get to
28:15
Speaker 2: meet in person. I'm going to need the full story
28:16
Speaker 2: on that.
28:19
Speaker 1: Poison dots. I'll say it in two words. Something you
28:22
Speaker 1: don't know about me that sounds fake is true. Is
28:25
Speaker 1: poisoned poison dots, poison dots.
28:27
Speaker 3: And I wish we could end on that. But I
28:29
Speaker 3: ask everybody this.
28:30
Speaker 2: Question, what is the smartest decision you've ever made?
28:35
Speaker 1: Uh? To assert my boundaries in my marriage? That and
28:39
Speaker 1: the irony of it all is that Seth will now
28:43
Speaker 1: say to me, who knew I could be so proud
28:45
Speaker 1: about a book that portrays me in a really shitty light.
28:49
Speaker 2: You can tell you really love him and respect him.
28:52
Speaker 1: Though I do. Yeah, it's been a journey.
28:55
Speaker 2: There are not enough words to thank you. You've been
28:58
Speaker 2: so generous with your time, and your work has changed
29:01
Speaker 2: my life.
29:02
Speaker 3: So thank you, thank you. Oh my God.
29:04
Speaker 1: Big hugs, and I really really want to meet in person.
29:07
Speaker 1: I feel like you're a spiritual.
29:08
Speaker 3: Friend, all right, Today is a good day. To have
29:28
Speaker 3: a good day.
29:29
Speaker 2: I'll see you next week.