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Are You Worried About Paul Goldschmidt? · Kenny Wallace Media

0:00
What's up everybody, I am Charlie Marlowe, that is the
0:04
great and he gets greater every week.
0:06
Brendan Schaefer, this is low hanging fruit.
0:09
Brendan, how you doing buddy? I'm doing good.
0:13
It was good to see you, by the way, on Wednesday on Hot Take
0:15
Central. That was the first time we were
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in there at the same time, so that was fun.
0:19
That was fun. Fun show and off off on a
0:23
tangent right out of the gate if anybody wants.
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To go and. Check out the Charlie Tuna
0:28
segment on OJ Simpson. I highly, highly recommend that.
0:32
But no talk about OJ right now unless it's actual orange juice
0:37
we're drinking. Probably not even that.
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That was stupid to say. I've got coffee, that's it.
0:41
OK, I have. I just have water.
0:44
Let's move right past my bad start and my bad jokes and get
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to these red birds, baby. 9 and 10 on the season.
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If we if we flip back, we basically said after that rough
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stretch before the A's, I think I said they'd be 6 and 10.
1:01
You said I think we. Included.
1:04
I think we included the A's series in there.
1:06
I thought we did. Well, I said 6:00 and 10:00.
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You said 7:00 and 9:00. So you were they were 7:00 and
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9:00. Correct.
1:15
Sounds, sounds right, 'cause they took two of three from
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Oakland. Yeah.
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So that was right. So now they are 9 and 10.
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So you were exactly right. Basically, I'm trying to give
1:24
you some what else is new. Yeah, take the credit and run
1:27
with it. I will take the credit.
1:29
Look, we knew the schedule would be tough at the beginning for
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the Cardinals. It was maybe not like the
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Marlins were terrible. I don't know if we saw through
1:36
what that was going to look like.
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We knew Oakland would be rough. But the other teams, competitive
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teams, playoff caliber teams, and it's interesting, the
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Cardinals are 9 and 10. That's about where maybe we
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thought they'd be. It didn't happen in the way that
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we thought it would happen, though.
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The offense is not carrying this team.
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They're scoring three runs and exactly three runs every single
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day, no more, no less. And the pitching is actually
1:58
been pretty solid. And I think the pitching would
2:00
have been everybody's primary concern coming into the year.
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And it's held up for the most part, whereas the offense, they
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just can't get going right now. OK, so it's funny you say that
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because it's 19 games in, so it's early, but it's not that
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early, even though yesterday I said it's still early, but not
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that early. And somebody goes, no, it's it's
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still very early. There's 143 whatever games left.
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So I get it. My point is, you know, we should
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try to draw conclusions based on 19 games, not too many crazy
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conclusions. But I'm I'm not going to change
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my mind. I I still am more worried big
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picture about the starting rotation than I am the offense.
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And I understand that sounds because first of all, is this is
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this me basically just defending my take?
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Maybe a little bit of that maybe.
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OK, so here's the deal though. I still think when you look at
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the starters, when Gibby goes out there, I called him Gibby.
3:01
How about that? When Miles Michaelis, when Miles
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Michaelis goes out there, you know, I think, you know, are
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there eras going to be, you know, pushing 5?
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You know, they're they're pushing 6 right now, but I think
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just end of the season, I don't I don't love it.
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Sonny Gray's been fantastic. Obviously Steven Matt's so far
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better than I thought, even though his outing in Oakland
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wasn't great. Lance Lynn has been just fine.
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Kind of what I expected. The offense.
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I just I still look at maybe this is me looking at the back
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of the baseball card or looking at the names on the back of the
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jerseys. I just I don't think this
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offense can be this bad now. Before the season started, I
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said maybe top ten. I I think you said chance at top
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five. I don't remember they.
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Needed to be top five. They were going to be as good as
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they want to be. But we both had them at like
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8283 wins, I think. We didn't really think they were
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going to be as good as they wanted to be.
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So, yeah, I thought, you know, top eight, they could do that.
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I still like them on paper, Charlie, but look at the
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numbers. I mean, these guys are these
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guys are struggling. But you say maybe you're worried
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that the you're not as worried about the hitting.
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You think some of these dudes will come out of it or what's
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your take? Well, 100% some of these dudes
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are going to come out of slow start now.
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So do I think do I think Paul Goldschmann is going to be
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whatever he is 500 something OPSI do not now again, may maybe
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he gets to league average little above which which is not good
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enough. I think we both agree that's not
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going to get the Cardinals to the playoffs.
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I still don't think Paul Goldschmann is done like he's
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done as a player. I I think he's going to get out
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of this. He's done this Goldie.
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He's goalie's done this before. The year before he won the MVP
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April, he had a 590 OPS, struck out 28 times in the month of
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April. So this is a little worse than
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that. But it's not like it's unheard
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of for him to come out of something like this.
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He's been a slow starter just to kind of cut that off at the
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passes, as I know Goldie is a big topic of conversation.
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Right, and I think Arenado is already trending in the right
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direction and we'll get to some of the positives.
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There are a lot of positives on the offensive side.
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But I'll tell you what, the guy I'm I'm most worried about, and
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I, and I say this because, look, Victor Scott was not supposed to
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be in the big leagues, so he's giving him good defense.
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He can't hit worth a lick. Look, he should be in AAA To me,
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Jordan Walker is the guy I'm I'm worried about now.
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When I I said the other day that he didn't have a a good spring,
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it it wasn't that bad when I went and looked back at the
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numbers he got on base, not a lot of power.
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I think he hit 255 in the spring, but a ton of strikeouts
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then throughout this regular season too.
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He looks like a guy that you maybe need to send down.
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And I just, I expected in me saying the Cardinals are going
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to have a really nice offense. I expected him to take the next
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step as a sophomore. He had a really nice solid
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offensive rookie year. Defensively, we know it was
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rough, but he was pretty Dang good offensively.
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And I, I expected him to take that next climb up the ladder
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and it's been the exact opposite.
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He's taken 2 three runs down on the ladder.
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Yeah. And looking at this now,
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Charlie, you mentioned like people say, well, should they
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send him down? Obviously that's something they
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did last year and when they did that right before they sent him
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down, the trend was he wasn't in the lineup very much because
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they couldn't necessarily justify the defense with all the
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outfielders. They were, I believe they were
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in San Francisco, more spacious outfield and it just seemed like
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he wasn't playing. And then the next day he was
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sent down. And you look up now and of the
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last four games, he's only started one of them and he's
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come off the bench. And the other three, I'm not
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saying that means they're about to send him down, but it is kind
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of interesting that, you know, they're they've kind of
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curtailed his playing time a little bit with New Bar back.
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There's a squeeze, Ollie Marbles got to make out his daily
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lineup. And this is a team that's not
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putting up run production. And if Walker's not contributing
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to scoring, he's obviously not contributing defensively
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comparatively to some other players that you could put in
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right field. I know Newt got some time out
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there. They trust Donnie and left.
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And then the center field situation, they've been kind of
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oscillating between Siani and Victor Scott.
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So like those are two of your three outfield spots.
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You know, that New Bar is going to be in one of the three on a
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daily basis, but it feels like Ollie Marmo right now is is kind
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of in between on, on what he really needs to be doing with
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those spots. And I can't blame him because
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you need to try to find some production from somewhere.
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And guys that you thought were going to be a part of that plan,
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like Jordan Walker right now are not producing.
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And it's kind of starting to cause a dip in playing time,
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which I I do wonder openly if that means maybe they would
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consider making a move at some point.
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Charlie, so Jordan Walker, just so we have the stats here, he is
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hitting $1.80. His OBP is 246.
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He's slugging 3 hundo for a 546 OPS, which is crazy.
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That's still 30 points better than Goldie.
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That's how bad Goldie has been. Maybe they should send Goldie
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down. No, I'm just kidding.
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Gordon Walker People wanna move Goldie down in the order and I,
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I don't know when's too early, when's too late to do that
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because like, OK, you're gonna move Goldie down.
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If you move him down to three, that's still prominent in the
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line. If you move him down to clean
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up, that's still clean up to me. If you're moving Goldie down
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because you're like, we just can't have this guy taking the
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Pats he's taking from the 2 hole.
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Are you moving him to five? Like what are you?
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What are you even doing? That's why I think line up
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construction a little bit overrated.
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Fun to talk about, but probably not the end all be all.
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But I know you're talking Jordan Walker, but do you move Goldie
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down in the order or do you just say he's Goldie?
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He's going to come out of it like he normally does after a
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slow start. So I think this is a really
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interesting conversation potentially because to me, with
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baseball, so much of this is ego, for whatever reason.
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And when I say ego because I don't think Paul Goldschmann has
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a big ego in terms of being arrogant, what I'm saying is
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managers feel like, oh, I can't move the Hall of Fame guy, the
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$26 million guy, I can't drop him down.
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And this is where I've always found this funny because if you
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look at the other big sport in town, sorry, sorry, STL City,
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but I've always thought it was funny with hockey that they'll
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shift lines around all the time, right?
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To try to get the guy going. To try to get people going,
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they'll shift the guy up, they'll shift the guy down.
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They try to pair somebody up, they flip it around.
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And I feel like it isn't like, Oh my God, what did you do to
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this player, Vladimir Teresenko? It happens all the time in
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hockey and coach. Gets credit for doing it and was
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like oh brilliant. Yes, line combinations, we talk
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about it kind of in the same way you talk about baseball lines.
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But for whatever reason with baseball, if it's a player with
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a pedigree, if it's a player that's a veteran, if it's a
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player who has the contract, nobody wants to do that.
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And to me, if you, if you move Goldie down for a little bit to
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try to get him going, I think that's fine.
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I feel like Ali probably won't do that though.
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I don't think he will. And like you said, Goldie
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doesn't have an ego. And it's not even that the guys
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who don't want to move have an ego.
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That's not necessarily what I'm saying.
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But for instance, a guy like Nolan Arenado, I think is almost
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different because he's been pretty open.
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I like being cleanup. He prefers cleanup to be in
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baton in the three hole. And I think a a guy who grew up
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with Albert Pujols, baton in the three hole for Tony Larussa,
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like it used to be the cleanup spot.
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That was the spot for your guy. And then Tony moved Albert to
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the three hole. And then that was sort of the
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trend around baseball. And now we've seen even the
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number two spot in the lineup for a lot of managers is your
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dude that's your best hitter. But Nolan Arenado, it's a
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preference thing. He prefers, he feels the most
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comfortable batting cleanup for whatever those reasons might be.
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So I think for certain guys, you you do want to maybe kind of
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cater to that a little bit if it's a comfort factor, whether
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fans think that something you should do or not.
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Like, I do think to certain guys it matters.
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I agree with you. I don't think for Goldsmith, he
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would care either way. He's like, am I playing?
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Am I in the line up? Great, I'll bat when it's my
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turn. Like I can count to 9.
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I know which is which is my spot.
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Like, I don't think he would care.
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But I also agree with you. I don't think that Ollie Marvel
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because what is that? What's what's the message there?
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Well, is that, well, now all he's panicking.
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Like those same fans who are asking him to move him down, I
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think would then say, well, that's an admission now that
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Goldie's not the same. Our lineup is not capable of
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being what they thought it could.
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I think you just open yourself up to scrutiny for that.
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But I do understand, like tangibly on the field, if you're
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scoring only three runs every day, trying to get more at bat
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for the players who are seeing the ball better might be the
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better way. So it is.
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I could see both sides of this one.
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It's funny too, because if you really wanted to do it based on
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who's hot right now, you'd probably bat Goldie like 7th,
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you know what I'm saying? And what, what would you, what
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would you have right now? If, if, if Brendan Schaefer was
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Olli Marmol? What would be your line up?
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And I know. We don't have to do matchups
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like righty versus left. Yeah, yeah, tonight versus
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standard versus Milwaukee, where, where would you put guys
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right now to try to get folks going?
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Interesting. I mean, if you were going to do
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like for me, I personally would not move Goldschmidt.
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I know that's probably the wrong answer.
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A lot of people aren't looking to hear that answer.
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I would say give it whether it's another week or so.
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I said, I don't think Ollie makes that move in April, but if
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you get to May 1st and he's still OPS ING 510, you're like,
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OK, maybe do something different.
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But if I were going to be bold with it, let's give the let's
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give the people the answer that they want, acknowledging that I
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don't think Goldie is going to move and I kind of understand
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why you could go like Donovan. I don't I know that the the
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right left, right, left is like all his favorite thing and it's
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sometimes I'm like, yeah, if everybody's kind of cooking, I'm
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good with it. I want new bar bat in second.
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I liked it. They did this for a period where
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they went Donovan new bar and I get it.
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They're two lefties. They're also two guys who are
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not very splitty. They're not like susceptible to
12:40
left-handed pitching. They can they can figure it out.
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So I don't think I would mind that at all.
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Arenado likes to bat clean up. So I'm going to let him.
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I'm going to keep him four and I think Wilson's your three right
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now with the way that he's swinging it.
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So we'll go Wilson. Gorman has struggled as well.
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He struggled as well. But I'll I'll mix it up with a
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lefty in there between the righties and then I'll go
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Goldie. How about that?
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Goldie's down at six. That's kind of unusual.
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I'm finding a way to get Herrera in the lineup.
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I don't care which of them are catching between Contreras and
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Herrera, but he's he's swinging it too well right now not to be
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in there in some form or fashion.
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And you're noticing I I forget the positions that I still need.
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Jordan Walker's not going to be in this lineup because of the
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way he's swinging it. And so I think that's maybe that
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is the answer to the question of should they send him down
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because I am anti. I think that sometimes sends the
13:28
wrong message to a guy that you want to build around, but I
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don't know if they're not having the faith to put him in the line
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up daily right now, why necessarily would I consider,
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you know, keeping him in there? Honestly, Mason win is another
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guy you can make an argument, Charlie, that you could go
13:43
Donovan Mason win up at #2 and then new bar and you still get
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your right left right. But since I already kind of over
13:49
committed to this, I'll keep win in the eighth spot for right
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now, Just let him kind of help turn the line up over and I'm
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going to. If Victor Scott's on my team,
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he's in my 9 hole and he's my center fielder every day.
13:58
All due respect to Siani, if they wanted to send Victor Scott
14:01
down, you can make that move and then it would be a different
14:04
conversation about who plays center.
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But if Scott's on the roster, he's still my guy because I
14:08
think the defense is that good. So I, I like your line up there.
14:12
I think it's interesting because your line of thinking on Mason
14:16
Wynn is kind of mine, which is clearly everybody loves what
14:21
he's doing right now Mason Wynn is slashing 347 average 404 on
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base, 469 slug for 873 OPS. However young guy, first big
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league season, even though everybody else is struggling, I
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don't want to move him up to a premium spot yet right?
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I just let him cook, let him simmer, let him marinate.
14:45
Now again, if if we're 55 games into the season, whatever.
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If we're 1/3 of the way into the season, the Cardinals are still
14:53
middling around 500 and Goldie and a couple other guys, Jordan
14:58
Walker, whoever else, Nolan Gorman.
15:00
If these guys aren't getting close to what they should be OK,
15:04
then I think you can move. Mason win, but but right now, I
15:07
just like keeping the pressure off Mason win.
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But maybe he's a guy who's fine with it.
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But right now, I think you leave him where where he is.
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Otherwise, if you're looking at who's producing, I mean, Mason
15:18
wins got to be close to the top. I think it's here.
15:22
Here's maybe a good conversation, which we can I I
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don't want to act like, hey, we're we're 19 games in and I
15:28
want to already look towards 2025.
15:30
But I think it's interesting. Wilson Contreras and Yvonne
15:34
Herrera, they're hitting so well.
15:36
And if they continue, man, it really kind of rolls into the
15:43
does Goldie come back situation. If you're going to have those
15:46
guys catch about half and play some first and play some D8,
15:49
don't you think that's kind of an interesting?
15:51
Foreshadowing. It's very interesting and and
15:54
you could maneuver it again. We're not writing Goldie off.
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If I had to get right now, just so everybody doesn't get the
16:01
wrong idea, predict for me Goldie's, let's say he stays
16:04
with the Cardinals all year, no trade.
16:05
He plays, you know, 140 games. What's his OPS to end the
16:09
season? Just give me your best earnest
16:11
prediction on what it'll be and then I'll answer that point
16:14
about 25 'cause I don't want to say, yeah, let's, let's get that
16:17
25 line up as as if we're writing off Goldie, 'cause I'm
16:19
not there yet. Well, hold on, I'm not.
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By the way, in saying this, I'm not writing off.
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Goldie at all? I agree.
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What I'm saying more is if he does have a, a steep decline,
16:31
then you're thinking, well, do we want to resign him 100%?
16:34
So that's, that's the conversation I was looking for.
16:37
I'll go ahead and say I'd like to look this up.
16:40
What's what's Goldie's career? Not 900, he's nine O 4 for his
16:44
career as of like last week when I looked it up.
16:48
I'm going to say that, Goldie. He was at 8:10 last year, by the
16:51
way, eight 10810 in 2023, which we thought was a down year at
16:56
the time. Correct.
16:58
I think Goldie's OPS is going to be 775.
17:05
I'm going to go 8 O1, OK, I'm I'm going to I'm not.
17:08
I'm I'm going down with the ship, which eight O1 wouldn't be
17:11
amazing, right? But I've seen it from Paul
17:13
Goldsmith before where a week happens and his OPS will go from
17:17
5:17 to 7:17 in a blink of an eye.
17:21
So I'm going to say that that's still there within him.
17:23
Now, I will allow us to have the conversation you wanted to have
17:26
because I do think it is a good one.
17:27
I assume like Contreras has played, I haven't looked at the
17:30
game logs, but I have assumed he's played a little first
17:32
before or Herrera, one of the two could do it.
17:34
I just assume because it always feels like the catcher that's
17:36
not catching, he can just go stand at first.
17:38
So we're just going to pretend that that won't be too big of a
17:40
deal. You got the point.
17:41
Are you ready? Because because I did look this
17:44
up the other day. He's played, he's played some
17:47
outfield and some first. I think it was maybe 30 games in
17:51
the outfield, a little bit of first.
17:52
So yes, Willie has played a little bit.
17:54
I'll look it up right now. But it's something like that.
17:55
But I but I just assume that that probably works because we
17:58
just kind of always feel like, yeah, I just put him at first.
18:00
It's fine. And I think in this, in this
18:02
case, it probably would be fine. The other thing though,
18:05
Herrera's got to start throwing out some base runners.
18:07
I like what he's done catching wise, but that teams are going
18:10
to start to figure that out. You know, Willie's got a good
18:12
arm back there. Herrera, I think the Cardinals
18:14
aren't overly concerned about it yet.
18:16
The last time I was in the room when all he was asked about it
18:18
was probably a a week and a half ago whenever it was on the home
18:21
stand. And he said, you know, when he
18:25
came up in 22, they they just didn't think he was ready.
18:29
And he really evolved a lot since then.
18:31
If Herrera had been ready in Yachti's final season and then
18:34
they could have seen the signs coming that he would be this guy
18:36
offensively and just the way he handles himself.
18:38
Wilson wouldn't be on this team. They wouldn't have had to sign a
18:41
catcher. But they said I don't think
18:43
Herrera is going to be the answer yet.
18:44
Herrera almost used that as fuel and then he turned himself into
18:47
a really nice player. So they've got both guys.
18:49
What do you do? I agree you could have them both
18:51
in the line up in 2025 playing some first.
18:54
Alec Burleson's maybe around getting some time at first.
18:56
We know Donnie can fit in there if maybe a Sujay C comes up.
19:00
And so there's more middle infielders where Donovan shifts
19:02
to a first base on occasion. That could work.
19:05
Like if this season does go off the rails to the extent that
19:08
we're talking about that little bit of a mini retool, we could
19:11
see Goldie walking, Arenado traded and them still feeling a
19:15
line up that will they'll probably still sell 3 million
19:18
next year and it it'll be on $110 million payroll.
19:21
But there's a way to do that with some of the the young
19:23
players they have. But you also need the Gorman's
19:25
to be good and the Walkers to be good in that scenario.
19:28
But I to to kind of make this story shorter than it than I
19:31
just made it. Yeah.
19:32
I think you could do that in 2025 with your two catchers that
19:35
they both might have an OPS above 800.
19:38
Like Herrera looks like an everyday #5 number six type of
19:40
hitter. The way he's hitting.
19:41
I know it's early, but I think I trust it.
19:43
I think I trust him to be able to maintain that.
19:46
So. So we have the numbers.
19:48
Willie has played eleven games at first base.
19:52
In his career, yeah, that's good enough.
19:54
No, I mean, really, he played. He's done it before.
19:56
He'll they'll do it again. Yeah, he's played 39 games in
19:59
the outfield in his career, 35 in left field.
20:03
So, but I I think it's not just it's not just Goldie struggling,
20:09
it's also Goldie's age. And it's also the fact that we
20:12
mentioned Contreras Herrera. And we haven't even mentioned,
20:17
we haven't even mentioned Jordan Walker, who may be long term
20:21
profiles as a first baseman. I, I don't know, but I think you
20:25
can't rule that out. I also so, so Goldie's 36, he'll
20:30
be 37 in September. I also just think, you know, we
20:34
can spin this into the the larger conversation of the
20:38
trend, the negative trend of the last five to eight years,
20:41
whatever it is, of the Cardinals not being good at knowing when
20:47
to hold them and knowing when to fold them, not knowing when to
20:51
keep guys. And then kind of the legacy
20:54
contracts that we've seen, the Matt Carpenter one is the one
20:58
that we all really point to. Even at the end, you know, Wayno
21:01
was going to get 5000 opportunities.
21:04
You bring back Yadi and Albert. Obviously Albert worked out.
21:07
Sometimes it does work out, but to me there's a lot of warning
21:11
signs right now, age, production, other players that
21:16
can play that position and kind of a a roster clog again, if if
21:20
you're going to want to play Herrera and Contreras almost
21:23
every game, both those guys. I'm starting to think it doesn't
21:27
make sense roster construction wise to bring a Goldie back and
21:31
it it's early, but you can look to 2025 and and kind of make
21:35
that argument pretty easily. So let me ask you this way then
21:38
if he gets the 775 OPS that you're, that you're predicting,
21:42
which again, we're just I, I put you on the spot and asked, But
21:45
if that's kind of the season, which would indicate a little
21:47
more decline, maybe he's just not quite the superstar that he
21:50
was, but probably still good leader, still good defense, all
21:54
those things. Is there a, is there a number
21:57
where you say is Goldie's willing to take less?
22:00
I think he's still worth having around if he's a a 770 and 800
22:04
OPS guy instead of MVP candidate, you know, Is there a
22:07
number where you go? Yeah, he's taking less money,
22:09
kind of like Wayno was doing there for a few years when he
22:12
was on the incentive contracts because he wanted to stick
22:15
around. But he also knew that you you
22:18
look at his numbers and he couldn't demand more from you at
22:21
the time. Is there a number for you if he
22:23
if he kind of has the season where he bounces back but not to
22:26
not to prior levels? Just so everybody knows, I love
22:29
Goldie by the way. But he will be no, he will be
22:31
37. Marlo's going to bury Goldie.
22:34
Get ready for this. No, let's be real, an
22:36
extension's going to be at least two years at least.
22:39
OK, so that means age 3738 season.
22:43
Let's say he does have the exact OPS that I said 775.
22:47
So you're looking at decline from now.
22:49
Obviously the the MVP year was amazing.
22:51
That was 981. But then you're going to 810.
22:54
Let's say it's 775. Don't you think you can probably
22:56
say, OK, the next couple years, maybe it's 750.
22:59
He's 37. He's 38.
23:01
Again, I love Paul Goldschmidt, but the Cardinals are have been
23:06
bad at making tough decisions, right?
23:09
Go go back to I'll keep making different sports references.
23:13
But Bill Belichick for years, what was he great at?
23:16
He was great at trading the dude when he still had value.
23:21
It's the old saying, it's always better to trade a guy one year
23:25
early than one year late. And I feel like we can talk
23:29
about all the trades. We can talk about the the first,
23:32
the Matt Carpenter extension, whatever it is.
23:34
I think the Cardinals have gotten bad at that.
23:37
And I do think you know this. The Cardinals love their guys.
23:40
Goldie, even though he wasn't drafted as a Cardinal, he's now
23:43
viewed as a legacy type Cardinal.
23:46
The Cardinals always give those guys more years than they
23:49
should. Big picture.
23:51
Some of them work out, don't get me wrong, but the Cardinals
23:54
always give those guys that they love too many extra years in
23:58
deals. Is that fair?
24:00
I think it is fair, but I also would point to this example
24:03
being one where maybe they're learning from that because it
24:06
was almost treated like a foregone conclusion that Goldie
24:08
would get the extension before the year.
24:10
Like, Oh yeah, he's he's coming up on the final year.
24:12
They'll do that in spring. But like the Matt Carpenter deal
24:15
maybe taught him you don't have to do that.
24:17
You're bidding against yourself essentially, because if Goldie
24:20
has a 770 OPS, his market and for agency is not going to be
24:23
the same. And could it be a little bit
24:25
uncomfortable, like on a personal level to say, hey,
24:27
Goldie, we like you, but we might have to we might have to
24:29
put our business hat on for this one and and make a decision on
24:33
if you're back, it's going to be for, you know, market value
24:37
instead of just giving it to you up front before knowing how your
24:40
final year plays out. I think they've already like not
24:43
to like pat them on the back too much or anything, but by not
24:46
doing the thing that we all assumed they would do in
24:48
February with Goldie and letting this year play out instead, I
24:52
think they've maybe even learned their lesson a little bit on
24:54
that. But the other reason that that
24:56
might have been the case is I think they could be plotting,
24:59
not plotting. Like this is their plan A, but
25:02
they're playing B. If this year doesn't go well, is
25:04
that sort of reduction in payroll?
25:07
Take a year, take a step back before kind of reloading the
25:10
following year, and maybe all the TV stuff is figured out by
25:13
then. It just feels like the Goldie
25:15
thing came at a time where it's part of a larger opportunity to
25:19
if the Cardinals have two losing seasons in a row, they don't
25:22
need to continue fighting this upstream battle by signing, you
25:25
know, 36 year old free agent starters and continuing to try
25:28
and plug those holes. They can do none of that, test
25:32
out some internal options and just accept in their minds like
25:35
if 2025 is another 75 win season, maybe we do that while
25:39
saving some money and learning more about our internal options
25:43
that typically we are blocking by adding 36 year old free agent
25:46
starters that don't really have a lot of upside anyway.
25:49
You know what I mean? Like I think the Goldie thing, I
25:51
want to credit them for recognizing, hey, you didn't
25:53
have to sign him and they didn't.
25:55
But also I think it might be part of a not a sinister plan,
25:58
but like a more under the table of like, if this doesn't go
26:02
well, we do have all of these guys coming off the books at
26:04
once. And maybe we can just kind of
26:06
backfill internally and expect that that might not lead to a
26:09
playoff run in 2025. But we could also then learn
26:12
about who sticks around after we start to fill holes for the
26:16
following year. I think, I still think that's a
26:18
back channel plan that could go into effect if this season
26:21
doesn't go well. And how about instead of a, a
26:23
sinister plan, how about just smart baseball and, and
26:27
basically not not being emotional, which is funny
26:30
because when you think about John Mosalak, the way he runs
26:34
the team, it's, it's like a hedge fund.
26:36
So it's kind of funny because the way they look at numbers and
26:40
whatnot, it, it feels very unemotional.
26:44
Yet the Cardinals brand is all about emotion, which, which we
26:47
love with opening day in the red jackets and, and kind of their
26:51
guys. I, I do think here, here's what
26:55
I said last year, trade deadline this past winter.
26:58
And I still agree with it now. And, and I didn't think Goldie
27:02
was going to be this bad and I didn't think Arnado, Arnado's
27:05
OK. I think he'll be fine.
27:06
He's. He's come around already.
27:07
I mean he's come over the last week and 1/2 for sure.
27:10
So, but my point is more So what the hell does it matter if you
27:16
have Paul Goldschmidt and Noah Arnado and they're probably both
27:20
going to be Hall of Farmers and they're superstars.
27:23
What does it matter if they're on the team if you can't win
27:28
with the roster the way it's constructed?
27:30
And that's that's what I said all last year was dude.
27:34
So everybody knows I love Goldie, I love Arenado, but what
27:37
this team needs is another sunny Gray.
27:40
And and I still don't think even if those guys hit, I still don't
27:43
think they're going to make a deep playoff run.
27:46
So to me, it's great to have Goldie.
27:47
We love it. It's great to have Arenado.
27:49
We love it. Do you still think this team can
27:53
can run deep the way it is with the starting pitching?
27:56
That's my whole thing is what the Cardinals failed to do was
28:00
acquire starting pitching. And I said they had to do
28:05
whatever it took to get the type of starting pitching to make a
28:09
deep playoff run. And if that's trading a big dog,
28:12
that's trading a big dog. And that could have been anybody
28:15
that whether you can throw Gorman in there or whoever the
28:18
the Goldie talk, they didn't do that.
28:20
And so I just feel like there's a very good chance they're going
28:23
to waste another year or so of Golden Auto Golden Auto with a
28:27
pitching staff that isn't good enough.
28:29
Yeah. And and there again, we don't
28:31
know what the market was. It's easy to say.
28:34
And I did say, look, if you're going to make that kind of trade
28:36
for elite pitching and those guys at the time weren't being
28:39
dealt. But then we did see Dylan sees
28:40
get moved and we did see, you know, Glass now got moved.
28:43
Granted, what was coming back in those deals was prime on the com
28:48
pitching prospects and the Cardinals don't have any, at
28:51
least on the level that I think those teams and the guys that
28:54
were moved were were considered. But I this kind of ties into
28:59
your point about knowing when to hold them, when to fold them and
29:01
when to maybe trade somebody away at the height of their
29:03
value. Our perception is that Nolan
29:06
Gorman had a lot of value last year because we're like, well,
29:09
he's a raw power hitter. He's still so young, team
29:11
controllable. I don't know, maybe the rest of
29:13
the league said, no, he's going to be this streaky, hot, cold
29:15
guy. And we just don't really think
29:17
he's going to develop into that dude.
29:19
And right now it looks like the Cardinals are at risk of seeing
29:22
that happen. Now, maybe Gorman goes on a
29:23
chair here and in a week that sounds like a silly statement,
29:26
but hasn't that sort of been the story with him the last couple
29:28
of years? So, like, it's kind of hard to
29:30
measure out our perception of what the league thinks his value
29:33
is. And like, should they have
29:34
pulled the trigger if that was an option and and gotten a a
29:37
pitcher for him and, and maybe you had to add on to Gorman to
29:40
get that arm? Or was that never really an
29:42
option? And so it's hard to blame the
29:43
Cardinals for not exercising the most from his value at the time,
29:46
because maybe we were wrong about what his value was across
29:50
the rest of the league. But you're right, in terms of
29:52
like, I I think they do need to have that difference making
29:55
pitching staff. It's hard to have that when you
29:58
have to acquire all of them and they can't develop the pitcher
30:01
and they can't even have the prospect of the caliber that the
30:04
league is trying to trade for that guy and give you their
30:07
Dylan CS or their Tyler Glass. Now like maybe 10 Kansas.
30:11
He's looked pretty good to begin this season.
30:12
Maybe he ends up being that answer, but that's not the
30:15
answer today. It might not even quite be the
30:17
answer tomorrow. So when you're always scrounging
30:20
free agency to try to come up with these options and you're
30:23
the Cardinals and you have that parachute in the back of your
30:25
mind of we don't want to over commit on a longer term deal for
30:29
some of these high, high caliber starters because we might want
30:32
to take a step back in 2025. Like the the roster and the
30:36
payroll in the way it's structured is set up to be able
30:39
to effectively take a small step back.
30:41
They'll still be competitive, but they're not going to go all
30:43
in and try. And you talk about balancing
30:46
emotions versus running it like a hedge fund.
30:48
I think, and this is maybe a credit to him.
30:50
I'm not going to say this as a disk.
30:52
I think Bill DeWitt wants to have the emotions because he
30:55
understands that the fan base historically has cared about
30:57
those things and having their their guys, their legacy guys
31:00
stay. But that was during a period
31:02
where they never lost. So it's easy when you're always
31:05
winning and in the mix to say, well, as a fan, I also value
31:08
having my favorite guys still on the team, But now you're having
31:11
to sort of measure one against the other because they're not
31:14
winning. People aren't used to that in
31:16
the build a wit era. People aren't used to seeing
31:18
that play out. So I think that's kind of it.
31:20
It's a it's a multi tiered conversation, but you're right,
31:23
like they're going to need pitching.
31:25
What I would say though, Sonny Gray, Lance Lynn, and maybe 4
31:28
innings of Steven Mats with a bullpen that's that's pretty
31:31
good. I think at this point that could
31:32
still get you through an NLDS. I don't know about an NLCS
31:35
though. I think they've got enough to
31:38
conceivably get lucky and make it happen.
31:40
But in A7 game series, you're right, I don't.
31:42
I don't think they quite have the pitching unless they out
31:44
slug everybody, which we've seen teams do in recent post seasons.
31:48
But the Cardinals are 23rd and OPS right now, so they're not
31:51
really that team at this point in time.
31:54
All right. And this is my fault by the way.
31:56
We're, you know, this is this is a great conversation by the way,
31:58
but we're focusing already so much big picture, which we
32:01
always do. And it is look.
32:03
People like that because the same things happened every game.
32:05
This time they're scoring 3 right inside.
32:07
People don't mind big picture. I don't.
32:08
Think yeah, no, you're right. I do though.
32:10
I want to I want to talk about the pitching side of what we've
32:13
seen so far. And we've already discussed some
32:16
of this. But yeah, Sonny Gray as
32:18
advertised, maybe it's just me and I'm just looking at the
32:23
names. I just, I, I see the Cardinals,
32:26
what they're like 20th and starter ERA, but that's actually
32:29
kind of misleading because it's so jumbled.
32:31
I think the starters have been pretty, pretty Dang good.
32:34
I still don't think they're going to be great, don't get me
32:36
wrong, but they're giving you a shot.
32:38
The bullpen has been fantastic. I think we both thought that was
32:41
probably going to be the case. Top ten type bullpen.
32:44
What do you think about the the hurdlers so far?
32:48
Well, yeah, and you mentioned starter ERA, they're at 4.21,
32:51
which is 19th and baseball and honestly not too dissimilar from
32:56
what I think we would have guessed at the beginning.
32:57
We said they can be top half, top 15 or so.
33:01
But when you have a guy with an ERA of six like Gibby does and
33:04
Miles is up at like 5.8, to have a four one ERA for your starters
33:08
I think is pretty respectable. In the bullpen.
33:11
The bullpens been good. I think they're like touching
33:13
top ten and ERA, give or take, and they still might not be at
33:17
their best. We haven't seen Keenan Middleton
33:18
yet. Now, maybe we never do because
33:20
he's hurt, but it'd be nice to get him back.
33:22
And I think you're even a little bit stronger.
33:24
Palante has been maybe wedged into some spots that you'd like
33:27
to bump him down a slot in terms of like the way you tear the
33:30
bullpen. But otherwise you feel pretty
33:32
good. Like Gray.
33:33
I think it's going to continue to be really good.
33:35
Lance Lynn is their second best pitcher.
33:37
He just is because he has the K stuff.
33:39
I know he only struck out one in his last game, but he also I
33:41
think has the the ability as a veteran to toggle it and to know
33:45
on a given night when maybe the K isn't the thing he needs to be
33:48
relying upon to get his team through 7 innings and to be more
33:52
efficient like he did in his last start.
33:53
So between those two, I think you feel good about where you're
33:56
at The, the the totality of this rotation might be decided upon
34:01
the rest of the guys. And I think Gibson's going to be
34:03
kind of what he's been. He'll have some good starts,
34:05
he'll have some bad ones and hopefully the bad ones.
34:07
He at least eats up innings. Steven Matz in the 5th inning is
34:10
kind of a thing for me at this point.
34:12
Like is it a case where he's just not going to be able to?
34:16
You can look back at his game logs too.
34:17
He's never really been that guy for the Cardinals that gets
34:19
through six or seven. Do they have to almost treat him
34:22
like a like a have a piggyback or some some sort of answer for
34:27
what happens to him when he gets into the 5th inning?
34:29
His ERA is nice, but he's not really accomplishing the goal of
34:33
getting you deep into starts, which is kind of been the mantra
34:36
of this team. And Miles Michaels, I think just
34:38
needs to, I don't know, he just needs to throw more quality
34:40
starts than the ones where he gets shelled.
34:42
It's been about 5050 to this point.
34:43
And I, I don't really, I think he's kind of who he is, but who
34:47
he is can be really good if they continue to prioritize defense
34:50
behind him, which they've done for the most part so far.
34:53
But if we have that conversation about sending down Victor Scott
34:56
and moving new part to center, that's going to probably
34:58
decrease the quality of your defense at the because you're
35:01
trying to get more offense in it.
35:03
So you have to kind of make those decisions, which I don't
35:05
think would be helpful to a Miles Mikeliss.
35:07
But I'm not really worried about the pitching.
35:09
It's been about what I thought it would be.
35:10
And I think what it can be is workable, but not with this
35:14
level of offensive production. They've got to hit more.
35:16
So that's where I'm at. I know you're saying you're
35:17
still worried about the rotation.
35:18
I'm actually completely fine with what they've done and I
35:21
expect it to continue. I don't think the bottom falls
35:24
out of this rotation. Like it did last year.
35:26
OK, I agree with that. I think sometimes too we always
35:29
like to argue about semantics here and there.
35:33
Some of this too is even my criticisms.
35:37
I just, I just still look at this team and I feel like they
35:40
are who we thought they were. Are were.
35:44
I mean, they're 9 and 10. It was a rough early slate.
35:48
So you could even say, OK, for me, they're probably a game
35:50
better maybe than I thought or right around there.
35:53
I just I don't see this as an elite team.
35:56
I think they're going to be around 500 most of the year now,
35:59
if they are, maybe that means hey, they're still damn close to
36:02
the deadline. They can add a piece and they
36:04
can ascend. I don't know.
36:07
I just when I say I'm worried about the starting rotation, I
36:11
don't mean I'm worried that it's going to be last year.
36:14
I'm worried that it's going to be a starting rotation that
36:17
finishes the year 83 and 79. You know what I'm saying?
36:21
And I just, when I, when I look at the the names, like I always
36:24
try to think back couple years back to that 17 game-winning
36:27
streak. And by the way, they didn't have
36:29
a bunch of aces that year either, right?
36:32
But when I look at, to me, there's so much volatility with
36:37
Michaelis Gibson. And then even I think Matt's is
36:42
gonna run into issues, like you said, because you're gonna have
36:44
to ask for 12 outs or more sometimes from your bullpen.
36:50
I just find it hard to believe that this team is going to go on
36:53
a bunch of runs. Do you know what I'm saying?
36:54
I think there's going to be a lot of win a couple, lose a
36:57
couple. Like I just, I don't see this
36:59
rotation going on, going on a month where all of a sudden the
37:04
team goes 20 and six. I just, I don't see that because
37:09
I think there's going to be a a lot of starts where these guys
37:12
give it up. Yeah, and I mean that that's the
37:14
way they were designed to be a team that mostly, you know, you
37:19
look, in the past week, they've given up 621546405.
37:26
Like they're going to give up four and five a lot.
37:29
The offense was supposed to counteract that.
37:31
That's the way they're built. They admitted it.
37:33
They said, look, we got to have innings eaters.
37:35
We got to have guys that'll go deep.
37:37
It's going to keep our bullpen a little fresher for when we can
37:39
use them. But you're not trotting out
37:41
Kittredge, JoJo and Helsley unless you're you're in the game
37:45
four to three or in the game five to four.
37:48
They got to score four runs. They that's how you go 20 and
37:52
six in a month. The way this team is built is by
37:54
scoring a bunch of runs and having a line up that one
37:57
through 9. There aren't any easy outs.
37:59
There's no breaks and at times this group, the same group of
38:03
names looks like that sometimes it's not really been that way in
38:06
2024 at all. You'll have a game or two where
38:09
you go. That's what it is, that's what
38:11
it's supposed to be, but that it goes away for three more days.
38:14
So they almost self admittedly have to be that team knowing
38:19
that, yes, we signed two guys at the back of our rotation and had
38:23
one and Michael is already in there and another kind of in
38:25
mats where you don't really know that are going to be giving up
38:28
three, four runs a game, but they might go 6-7 innings.
38:31
And that's going to help our bullpen to be fresher.
38:33
But when you give, when you sign a group of players that you
38:35
expect to give up three or four in their starts, you have to
38:39
score at least that many runs to win.
38:41
Is that a great plan? Is that a plan that works in
38:43
modern baseball? I don't know.
38:45
But it's the one they chose. So that's the way that they're
38:47
going to have to to to sink or swim this year.
38:50
And if the offense isn't that kind of offense, then they will
38:52
not. It won't work.
38:53
It just won't. So is it fair to say then that
38:56
this, this team and, and this was, this was a criticism from a
39:00
lot of folks. I, I think we all said things
39:02
like this is it, is it fair to say as we're sitting here like
39:05
1213% of the way through the season, that maybe this team's
39:11
margin for error was even slimmer than we thought it was?
39:15
Because look, know, knowing who your starters were, OK, they're
39:20
going to eat some innings, but they may give up three runs each
39:23
time. They may all be 4 1/2 ER guy,
39:26
ERA guys. OK, but you know what, We like
39:28
our offense. And I can't lie, I like the
39:30
offense. But but once you kind of start
39:32
to watch some games being played, you do realize that that
39:35
does set up a razor thin margin for error.
39:39
And if a couple things go wrong, which they already have, all of
39:42
a sudden it's not looking too great.
39:45
Yeah, I think that's exactly right.
39:46
And that's why there was criticism of the plan they put
39:49
together. I was willing to watch the plan
39:51
play out and I trusted it from a pitching perspective.
39:54
In the pitching perspective is what has basically delivered on
39:58
what they were wanting to see. But it only worked if paired
40:01
with an offense that was pretty good.
40:03
Even right now a a Cardinal offense, what are they like 23rd
40:06
or so in OPS? Even if they were 14th in OPS
40:09
right now, they're probably 11:00 and 8:10 and 9:00.
40:12
They probably pick off a couple of extra games here and there
40:15
just on having a league average offense instead of one that's
40:18
toward the bottom. They need to have a top ten
40:21
offense, and I've said multiple times, maybe even better to
40:25
truly be the contender that they'd like to be, but that's
40:28
maybe not a realistic ask. I never thought that they would
40:31
necessarily be a top five offense.
40:33
I said if you're knocking on the door of that, perhaps it's
40:35
enough, but they're knocking on the door of bottom five, it's
40:38
just not going to match up. And that's a shame because what
40:42
you're getting from the pitching is exactly the plan that I think
40:45
they intended to put together. You've seen a bullpen that has
40:48
been really good with your your ace.
40:50
Guys like Kittredge, JoJo and Helsley have been really good.
40:53
Gio gives up a few too many homers, but even he's had some
40:57
bright moments. That's that's half your bullpen
40:59
that you should be feeling really good about, but it's not
41:02
going to matter if you're going into every 7th inning down 4 to
41:05
one or three to one. It's just not going to work.
41:08
So the pigeon plane hasn't been the problem.
41:10
They didn't add to the offense in the offseason by the way.
41:12
They did. I mean they they said, look, we
41:14
kind of think we got the guys that we need to have.
41:16
They added a couple of bench players and they thought, let's
41:19
let's let these guys that we already have internal, the old
41:22
guys bounce back, the young guys take a step forward, Bada Bing
41:25
bada boom. We've got a great line up.
41:27
It just hasn't materialize and that's a tough thing because I
41:30
don't know how you fix that at the deadline.
41:32
It's easy to add a starter if somebody goes down, If Matt's
41:35
doesn't hold up, you go, hey, we got one starter spot, let's add
41:38
Charlie's legit 1B to Sunny, Sunny Grey's 1A, and then we're
41:41
off and running. That's all well and good.
41:43
How do you fix this offense without a creative trade where
41:46
you move away a guy thinking, oh, oh, we might have just
41:49
traded the guy that's going to be the next to Rosarina, Dallas
41:51
Garcia, Tyler O'Neil. Like we didn't get enough out of
41:53
this guy, but he still got enough value that we can kind of
41:56
shake it up. I don't really think that's
41:59
Mozalak's type of trade. There's not an obvious blueprint
42:02
of what that would look like. So I don't, I think the offense
42:05
is kind of the one that you've got, unless they have so many
42:07
injuries that it's just a plug and play on a trade that they
42:10
make. And that's kind of it's a good
42:12
thing because you like the names on paper.
42:13
It's a scary thing because the names on paper are not
42:16
performing in reality right now. Yeah, and I try to be fair when
42:20
I'm criticizing the Cardinals in terms of the position players.
42:25
They had some guys to get rid of.
42:28
Now the whole thing with Tyler O'Neill that gets back to that
42:30
relationship was damaged last year, and I'm not even trying to
42:33
get into that. But I can't criticize the
42:36
Cardinals as much for the position players because I think
42:39
they have a lot of really good guys, a lot of really good
42:42
names, and it didn't really make any sense to to add or move you.
42:47
You kind of had a lot of talent and it's like, let's see what
42:49
you guys got. Yeah.
42:51
The the pitching staff, though, was where it was.
42:53
Look, you added three starters. You added three.
42:57
There was 3. Spots, correct, but you could
43:00
have added more at the top end. That's where I think it's fair
43:04
to criticize the Cardinals. And then also I've been critical
43:08
of Ollie, but but in a way of me saying, I just didn't think he
43:12
deserved the extension. I understand why he got it.
43:16
I didn't think he had earned it. But I think it's also fair to
43:19
say, as you watched last year, and I don't think Ali is a great
43:22
manager by any means. I think he has his faults, but
43:25
he's young. I think he could be really good.
43:27
I think we're also seeing, I almost want to go back to
43:30
another Blues comparison. This is not a good roster.
43:33
It wasn't last year. And so far it looks like it's
43:37
probably middle of the pack ish. And I think we should all
43:40
remember that when we criticize Olli and I, and I do also.
43:43
But it's always more on the person who put the roster
43:46
together and. That's called the moron you
43:48
called MOA moron. Wow, what did I say?
43:51
You said it's typically more on the guy that put.
43:54
Together the see. Oh no, no, I didn't even.
43:57
I guess I would never call. John, O moron.
44:00
I don't know. I respect him.
44:02
I will, I will criticize him, but I would never call him a
44:03
moron. Run the tape, run the tape.
44:05
I think it'll, I think it'll show the truth.
44:06
My thoughts on the Ollie extension for a minute was that
44:09
I think the Cardinals in the front office almost wanted to
44:13
make it known that whatever was about to happen wasn't
44:16
necessarily on the field manager.
44:18
Because again, I think behind the scenes a little bit, they've
44:20
put together a roster ownership on down to the front office
44:23
knowing that they didn't they they put a good foot forward,
44:27
but they didn't put their best foot forward as though their
44:29
lives were at stake to win in 2024, right?
44:32
Like there was a level of urgency to get another starter
44:35
to do some things that were a little more bold that I think
44:37
could have happened if that was the end all be all of what had
44:40
to occur. But I think they said we put
44:42
together a team that can certainly contend.
44:44
Maybe we get a little lucky in the central doesn't take that
44:46
step forward with the other four teams, which right now it looks
44:49
like they're all playing pretty good baseball.
44:51
So maybe they lose that bet, but that I think that was sort of
44:53
their bet and they wanted it to be such that, like, Ollie didn't
44:57
take the fall for that taking place.
45:00
And maybe he does anyway. Maybe MO Zelak kind of steps
45:03
aside at the end of the year if it.
45:04
Let's talk about 90 losses again.
45:06
Maybe MO goes, yeah, I'm now a special advisor to whoever steps
45:09
into my seat. And that guy may pick a new
45:12
manager. He may not.
45:13
And if he does, then at least Ollie gets a nice, you know,
45:16
nice severance because he had the contract.
45:17
Like I don't know what their plan's going to be.
45:20
I think Ollie does a pretty good job by and large, but I also, I,
45:23
I think you're right with with it to say like the roster is the
45:26
one that he's got to be able to manage.
45:28
I do think they put him in a little bit better of a position
45:30
to manage that roster because when people would complain last
45:33
year about him taking out starters in the 5th, they have
45:36
to realize he didn't have the starters that were built to
45:38
pitch beyond the 5th. And now I think you have a group
45:40
of four that are. And then one that we we have
45:43
questions about, which is Steven Mass as to whether he's going to
45:46
be capable of doing that. But I, I think, you know, he's
45:49
got to manage the roster that he has and no manager's going to
45:52
look very good when half of your lineup is hitting 180.
45:54
Like it's impossible. Put them in any order you want.
45:56
It's not really going to make much of a difference.
45:58
They've got to hit. I know I keep sounding like a,
46:01
like a broken clock. I'm, I'm redundant with all of
46:03
this, but they've got to hit. That's the only that's the only
46:05
thing that that's going to change for the Cardinals in
46:08
order to get them going. Yeah.
46:10
And, and you mentioned about we're, we're again kind of
46:12
looking towards the future, but whatever happens with Mosaic
46:16
and, and look, we, we could both look really stupid right now.
46:19
If a month from now, all of a sudden the Cardinals do surge.
46:22
And here we are already talking about the future and, and
46:26
basically say, oh, this season, no, it's going to be down.
46:28
It's a, it's a, it's a worthy Rd. to walk down when we podcast
46:32
as often as we do. Correct.
46:34
And I also, and, and I agree with it.
46:36
I just feel like everything with the Cardinals and it's not just
46:40
the bad year last year, it's kind of the trend.
46:43
It feels stale. It even feels stale now at 9:00
46:47
and 10:00. And I just wonder, we always
46:49
joke about the, the hind bloom situation and we know that
46:52
there's look, there's a succession plan that's going to
46:55
be in place. I just, I just look at the, the
46:58
Cardinals. They were so great for so many
47:02
years under DeWitt. And you know, you had Larussa,
47:06
but she had Mosealac. You had Luno, I'm not this guy
47:09
that gives all the credit to Luno.
47:11
He he gets a lot, but I give a lot of credit to John Mozelak as
47:14
well for the first, whatever it is, 891011 years of his run.
47:19
But I feel like they have lost their way a little bit.
47:22
Just top down decision making, just baseball, drafting,
47:28
developing decisions. And that's where the more I do
47:31
think about it, Heim Bloom just being an outsider and Bill
47:36
Dewitt's very smart. I would whether it's this
47:40
winter, next winter, whatever we think, John Mozalak has two more
47:44
years left, including this one. I would go outside the
47:47
organization personally because I feel like and I understand
47:51
Heim Bloom is now inside the organization.
47:54
But So what do you think about that line of thinking?
47:57
Regardless, from what you've seen the trend last year, this
48:01
year, I just feel like the Cardinals do need a a bit of an
48:05
organizational rebrand and somebody from the outside, even
48:08
if it's Hein Bloom, who's been here for a year, but brings an
48:11
outside perspective as a business owner.
48:14
If I'm Bill DeWitt, I feel like this organization, his business,
48:17
needs that. IA 100% agree and I think he's
48:20
recognized that by bringing Heim Bloom in and specific to Heim
48:25
Bloom and why I think he would make sense as a as a successor,
48:29
especially if they don't right the ship here.
48:31
But even if they do, I think Bill DeWitt, who's a good
48:34
businessman, has seen sort of what Heim Bloom has always been
48:37
about. When he was with Tampa, he was
48:39
helping to run those teams, develop players and win on low
48:42
payrolls. Boston hired him for the head
48:45
job and their ownership said slash payroll, like we're not
48:48
paying Mookie Betts figure it out.
48:50
And he did what he was asked. They didn't win as much as they
48:53
wanted because they're in a really tough division.
48:56
And then they fired him because they said he didn't do a good
48:58
enough job. And now you're seeing the
48:59
development of maybe some of the guys that were were put together
49:03
when he was in Boston. They're young pitching staff
49:05
like they're, they're all kind of proud of what they have now
49:07
on the pitching side. And that's especially where I
49:09
think the Cardinals could use some help with development
49:11
because we've talked about always having to sign free agent
49:14
pitchers or, or people begging to trade for one.
49:16
When's the last time they've developed one and had those guys
49:19
on minimal salaries and, and pitching capably like that
49:22
combination? I get Zach Thompson's not being
49:24
paid a lot, but he's also more of a #5 if he gets into the
49:27
rotation rather than a number two or three.
49:29
So all of those things to me add up and say, well, Bill DeWitt
49:33
has seen him kind of slash payroll elsewhere and still be
49:36
able to be competitive. That feels exactly like what
49:39
maybe the Cardinals could be looking for at this point in
49:41
time if 2024 doesn't go well. I think he would be almost the
49:45
perfect guy to be able to blend the the the rich history and the
49:48
the things that the Cardinals have valued over the course of
49:50
time with being able to bring it into the new age.
49:52
I do think the Cardinals have. It's not that they've been
49:54
terrible in all these facets, but they've lost the edge that
49:57
they used to have over the rest of the league.
49:59
They're kind of back to to even Steven with the rest of the
50:01
league and trying to kind of climb their way above that,
50:05
above that station has been difficult.
50:07
And I think that's they recognize that.
50:09
And I think that's why Hein Bloom is has been brought in as
50:12
an advisor. Let's not go crazy with what his
50:14
role has been to this point. I get that part.
50:16
But I also think if you look at his pedigree and like what he's
50:18
been good at in the past, it kind of sounds exactly like what
50:21
the Cardinals would be looking for post 2025 and maybe even a
50:25
little bit earlier. I'm speculating.
50:27
If Mozalak says yeah, this year didn't go well either, maybe
50:30
it's best if I kind of shift my role to allow the next stage of
50:34
the evolution of the Cardinals to take place.
50:36
I don't think that's crazy, but only if this year goes bad,
50:39
which I'm not ready to say yet that it will.
50:41
And I'm not either. But I do think, you know, we got
50:44
to remember that Hein Bloom fell into their lap.
50:47
It really was. You know, it's not a big
50:49
conspiracy because clearly Heim Bloom would have preferred to
50:53
not be fired from Boston. But it's just like one of those
50:56
things where it happened to be right as the Cardinals are
50:59
figuring out their succession plan after 20 years of whatever
51:03
it is with John Mosalak. Literally the dude who fits the
51:08
perfect blueprint of how the Cardinals want to run their
51:12
business and their baseball OPS just got fired and fell into
51:17
their freaking lap, right? I mean, that's, that's what
51:20
happened. Like right now to me, I, I would
51:24
put a lot of money that Heimblum is going to be the guy now
51:26
unless he gets another job, you know, a, a better offer.
51:29
But even if that's the case, if he goes to the Cardinals, hey, I
51:32
got this offer. If Mozalak's leaving in a year,
51:35
then he's your guy and waiting. Because I just think it's it's
51:38
too perfect of a marriage to me. Yeah, to me, if he wants it, if
51:43
you want, because that's a more it's a bigger time commitment
51:45
than just being a, you know, a part time advisor like he is
51:48
right now. And he's got family and
51:49
different things that he might prioritize.
51:51
But if he wants back into one of those seats, I think it's
51:54
incumbent upon the Cardinals to make him that guy.
51:56
And that's not a slight to anybody else who might be an
51:59
internal option that would like to climb the ladder there.
52:02
I just think there is a pedigree with Hind Bloom and the, the
52:05
Cardinals might be kind of missing some of what he's able
52:07
to provide. And I think that could blend the
52:10
the good run that they've had. And I'm not saying you clean
52:12
house by any means, but I think Heim Bloom could be a guy to
52:15
kind of reorient in a way that the Cardinals could use in terms
52:19
of modernizing the the development of how they handle
52:21
pitching and, and how they how they view player development and
52:24
player acquisitions and things like that.
52:25
I think you could be a nice fit and I think almost regardless,
52:28
like 2024 could go well. They could start hitting again.
52:31
And then then you're dealing from a position of strength when
52:34
you bring in somebody new. And it probably does wait until
52:36
MO's contract is done after 2025.
52:39
If this year goes great, MO could say, see, I fixed it.
52:41
And you know, you're you're happy with the way things are
52:43
progressing. But I still think having having
52:45
Heim bloom around to just kind of like, OK, familiarize
52:48
yourself with the org. He can then kind of look at what
52:51
he likes, maybe what he doesn't like.
52:52
It is not that right now he is of the belief that he's going to
52:55
take over. I don't think even he would
52:57
think that that's going to be the case.
52:58
But it doesn't hurt, right. Isn't that how it was framed by
53:01
MO is to say we've strengthened our bench.
53:03
That's what he said at winter warm up.
53:04
And I think that's true until the point in time where you're
53:07
ready to to bring in a pinch hitter.
53:09
And I think I'm Bloom could could certainly fit the
53:11
description of what they'd be, what they'd be seeking in that.
53:14
It's also a tough spot for MO when you have Gersh and Flores
53:17
who are right there and probably want the job.
53:20
At least Flores Gersh, maybe he likes being kind of the second
53:23
in command. But hey, Brendan Schaefer, great
53:26
job. Let's end on that right there.
53:28
Follow Brendan B Schafe daily on YouTube.
53:31
He does all hey, Brendan's doing way more than I'm doing.
53:34
By the way, he's doing live streams after the games so check
53:37
him out. Yeah, let's at youtube.com slash
53:41
at B Schafer 12. Subscribe to that.
53:43
I do have one parting thought, though.
53:44
What's with the shirt, man? Are you big Cleveland Guardians
53:47
fan now? You just did a whole Cardinals
53:49
podcast in a Guardians tee. What's up with that?
53:52
Well, that's a shout out to my buddy Dan Puente, assistant
53:56
hitting coach, Cleveland Guardians.
53:57
Are they in first place? I think they are, right.
54:00
They're having a nice start. Let me look at the standings
54:03
here real quick. I got it.
54:05
Standings. OK, Cleveland Guardians.
54:07
Cleveland Guardians. Brennan Schaefer are in first
54:10
place in the Yale Central 13 and six on the season.
54:15
That means, OK, they're tied with the Yankees best record in
54:18
the American League. Let's see, do they have the best
54:20
record? The best record in baseball
54:23
right now is the Braves or the best win percentage.
54:25
Excuse me, The Braves have a seven O 6 win percentage and the
54:29
Guardians and Yankees have a 684.
54:32
So yeah, I did buy this shirt at opening day 'cause I felt like I
54:35
needed to support the squad even though I hate the Guardians
54:39
nickname. Not a fan of it, huh?
54:41
I think it's fine. Are you?
54:43
Are you? I think it's totally fine.
54:45
I like that they didn't really change the branding a ton when
54:48
they did the name switch. Like it's still kind of the Navy
54:50
in the red. Like it all kind of looks the
54:52
same. They just even the script on the
54:55
shirt for a while was the same and they just kind of changed
54:58
the first few letters because the DIANS could stay and they
55:02
just had to change the first few letters of it.
55:03
I honestly, I don't really mind it, but some people are mad,
55:07
some people hate it, whatever. It's like they got the statues,
55:09
it's the the gargoyles or whatever the hell.
55:12
I think it's fine. The Guardians.
55:14
Let's go. Guards, baby, Let's.
55:15
That's what it is, guarding the city or whatever.
55:18
That's right, from all the crime and poverty and all of that
55:23
today, Saint Louis, Hey, we have our own problems here as well.
55:25
That'll be another show. All right, comment like
55:28
subscribe, share the show, share the channel, put in your group
55:31
text, put on social media. Brendan, great job, buddy.
55:34
We'll see you next week. Go Cardinals and go Guardians.