Latest / WoT Spoilers / Tears From Steel - The Gathering Storm chapter 1 - EP513

Transcript

Tears From Steel - The Gathering Storm chapter 1 - EP513 · WoT Spoilers

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: This is the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: All right, So first of all, welcome back to the podcast.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: And everyone wished that's the Happy birthday because it is
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: that time. Happy birthday to you are three anyway, tell
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: us about your your exciting new news. You have exciting news.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I bought a house kind of well, I had an
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: offer accepted on a house, so we still have to
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: go through all the like paperwork and all the crap.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: So I think last week I had put an offer
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: on a house and it didn't go through, and this
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: this week it did. It's a different house, but very
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: excited about it. And I will be moving to a
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: place in North Portland, very close to if you're familiar
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: with Portland, pretty close to the tip of North Portland,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: very near probably north of the Saint John's Bridge.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: That I'm not good with Portland geography, and I know
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: that's pretty far North Portland.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: It's pretty far North Portland, right, So it is a
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: little farther out, but because we're so near the Saint
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: John's Bridge, it's actually kind of on a main thoroughfare
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: that like to get Saint John's. We're actually relatively close
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: to the even though we're far up. Most people drive
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: up through that area to get to a big chunk
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: of Saint John's, right, so we're at the entrance.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I used to have family that lived in
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: Saint John's And yeah, it was like, on the one hand,
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: you're really far up in Portland. On the other hand,
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: it's actually very little Portland driving. You just drive up
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: around the edge, hoop over the bridge into Saint John's
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: and then bam, we were right at my family's house.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Right. So there's benefits and there's there's drawbacks. It's a
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: very you know, probably much more family oriented than some
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: of the other places I've been living.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: Well, that fits with your p which is not.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: A bad thing. Yeah, yes. And it's got some space.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: It's got like some walking closets that I'm going to
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: turn into recording studio, so I'll have like a separate
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: recording studio space for the podcast and anything else I
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: want to do. And it will just let me customize
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: the space a little bit and do my hobbies and
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: like just avoid the constant. Like it's start investing money
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: in housing, right as opposed to just throwing it away
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: on rent, which I've been doing for a way too long.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Well, especially now you have the kind of job that
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: can really handle a mortgage. Yes, yes, like podcasting is
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: not a mortgage job.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Not unless you're really popular.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they do exist, those podcasts exist, but they are
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: not us.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's you know, both both me and never
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: doing better in our careers and you know also being married, right,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Like that's that gives me a level of assurance that
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: I can go into this like with somebody and like
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: it's not we're not a one income family, like I
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: could never buy a house on my own, but two
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: of us with incomes, yes, that it seems to be doable. Right,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: So we're we're definitely a dink household, right, double income
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: though kids for now, and that's how we're making can
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: happen with some help from parents hopefully. Yeah. No, it's
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: it's a privileged place to be able to beat before
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: the house in this economy. But I've been working for
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: towards it, towards working towards it for a long time.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: I'm really glad that you were able to turn the
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: disappointment of that other house going down into like a
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: week late less than a week later, you're telling me, oh, yeah,
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: we've had an offer accepted on a different house, Like, yeah,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: that's a very fast turn around on that. That's very cool.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's and this is probably the place that's
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: in the best shape out of all the houses we
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: looked at. A lot of them were pretty rough out there.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we're just I'm excited about It's got all
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: sorts of features which you don't guys don't need to
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: hear about. But yeah, it's it's a family house. It's like,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: this is a house I could see having a family in,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: which is crazy to me. So yeah, that's all I'm
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: thinking about lately, except, of course Rand and his very
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: bad no good day.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Oh my god, Rand is having the worst time. My
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: only good life update is that I got my Christmas
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: tree up on the first of December, which is a
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: first for me. I have never gotten my tree up
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: so far ahead of Christmas, but this year I really
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: wanted to and I actually manage it, and that that
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: is my victory to report to the group. But yeah,
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Rand is not having a Christmas tree house buying level
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: of experience. He's like damaged and upset and the wind
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: is blowing the wrong direction. It's it's an entirely different experience.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: No, how meta is the wind blowing in the wrong
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: direction right like?
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: And it wasn't the trees, it was the banners. I
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: feel like that confusion on his part is relevant to
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: the whole metaphor of the wind.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: It's not nature, it's the people that he's steering wrong.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's it's and I also, I mean, we'll
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: get into it, but I just I love how the
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: bubble of people crashes into the wind. Right.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: It's just mm hm insact.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: We should just start, We should just start. I have
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: I have opinions. We should start.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Plus, it's the paragraph.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: Right ah is it ever? And it's yours. It's yours,
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: thank you, thank you, because it's a rand thing, so
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: it's yours paragraph. Assume you won't read all seven pages.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: So yeah. Chapter one tiers from Steel. The wheel of
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: time turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: again in one age called the Third Age by some,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: an age yet to come, an age long past. A
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: wind rose around the alabaster spire known as the White Tower.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: The wind was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: nor endings to the turning of the wheel of time.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: But it was a beginning. The wind twisted around the
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: magnificent tower, brushing perfectly fitted stones and flapping majestic banners.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: The structure was somehow both graceful and powerful at the
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: same time, a metaphor perhaps for those who had inhabited
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: it for over three thousand years. Few looking upon the
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: tower would guess that at its heart it had been
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: both broken and corrupted separately. The wind blew passing through
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: a city that seemed more a work of art than
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: a workaday capital. Each building was a marble. Even the
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: simple granite shop fronts had been crafted by meticulous ogier
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: hands to evoke wonder and beauty. Here a dome hinted
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: at the form of a rising sun. There a fountain
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: sprang from the top of a building itself, cresting what
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: appeared to be two waves crashing together. On one cobbled street,
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: a pair of steep, three storied buildings stood opposite one another,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: each crafted into the form of a maiden. The marble
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: creation's half stone, half dwelling reached with stone hands towards
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: one another, as if in greeting hair billowing behind immobile,
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: yet carved with such delicacy that every strand seemed to
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: undulate in the winds passing. I'll stop there. It goes
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: on for quite some time. This is a yeah, it's
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: just pages of the wind blows through this, the wind
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: blows through that. It's like, dude, we usually get a paragraph,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: maybe two or three.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: But like Sanderson knew he was only going to get
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: to do this three times. He really wanted to milk
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: it for all it was worth.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Well, you know this book coming out, The Wind in truth,
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: I always have to refer back to this and be like, oh, yep,
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: there's there's the wind that he was talking about. The
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: wind is going to be a major character in his
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: next book.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: No, I'm shocked. I'm shocked, shocked, and.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I'm hm hmm. I wonder where he got the odd idea.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: Also, we should say the chapter logo is the dragon
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: that Chinese banner tastic. It's like the dragon tattoo basically, yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: it's the dragon banner banner. One. It's not the weird
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: mouth opened coming straight at.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: You one right right, right right.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: And it's busted out of the box. It's like there's
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: a dragon, like he's kind of in a box, but
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: also he's like busted out of the box. But yeah,
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: so there's a lot of description. We get a nice
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: panoramic shot of the entire world, you know, the tower
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: being broken and corrupted separately.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I thought that was clever. He broke it, and then
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: each side got corrupted separately by the black ajaw and
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: the forsaken. Each one has a forsaken close to the ambuln, Like,
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: I thought that was really good.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Right, and also being like, the breaking and the corruption
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: are not the same thing, right, These are not synonyms.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: These are in fact different mechanisms by which we are
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: screwing with the magic ladies. We've also got then a
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: long description about how Tarvalin itself is all dim and
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: cluttered and has crime and refuse everywhere, and it's just
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: everything's gotten grungy and gnarly. And it's not just the tower,
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: it's also the city surrounding it. Because of course that
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: sort of thing is going to radiate outward, right, Tarvalin
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: claims to be the spoke on which the wheel turns.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: It's shitty. Yeah, the city next to it is going
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: to suffer as a result, and then.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Sort of the metaphor of them destroying the beautiful ogiar
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: carvings to get the quendiar chain out and the destroying
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: this beauty to basically try and restore basic trade.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't even think they were restoring beauty
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: but just the sturdiness, because I thought they were just
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: taking out the boring walls. But yeah, I mean, either way,
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: they're taking out work that was done by Ogier and
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Eyes to Die.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: There's no boring walls in Tarvollin, that's.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: True, But I mean also they're just taking away the
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: work of Ogier and Ice to Die from thousands of
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: years ago, right, like, this is impossible to recreate levels
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: of work and they're ripping it out, and it's like,
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: on the one hand, I'm like, yeah, how dare you?
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: But then it's like Igwain's the one that did that.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: So I guess I'm just mad at the Omerlin, whoever
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: she is, because I feel like there was a better
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: way than trashing the gates, you know. So yeah, the
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: wind continues to travel. Oh there's another good line about Tarvollin.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Many people talk about defeating the Ayeel as like a
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: great victory for Tarvallin, but other people wonder, like, well,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: if the Ayel had wanted to get.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Into this city, yes.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Might that battle have a less celebrated end because they
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: didn't actually try to get in. They just came up
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: to the slopes of Dragon Mount so that they could,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: you know, drop off Shaieel so she could have the
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: dragon and all that. But like they never actually tried
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: to get into the city, so it's sort of an
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: anachronistic victory to celebrate. I thought that was an interesting,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: just little side note of world building, just like just remember,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: like the Yield didn't even try.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: It's like we've never been invaded by the Swedes. Yeah, no,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: they yeah, that's nobody has.
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: It's objectively true, but it's not really helpful to say
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: that not going to go into the world, we don't
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: have time to unpack all that shape or form. Moving on,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: then we look at so after we look at Tarvallen,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: we look at the rebel camp and how it seems
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: like it's almost going to be permanent, like there's this
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: air of them just settling in forever.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, fifty thousand people, it doesn't matter how long
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you settle down fifty thousand people make a home for
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: themselves right quick, and they've been there for at least
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: a month I think at this point.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: Since the end of what God Winter's Heart, I think, right.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Because they show up once a Winter's Heart is well
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: and truly taken over everything. They show up in a snowstorm.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's hard not to look permanent. But also
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: it's like the entrenchment of the break is really being
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: pushed for by the powers that be.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and in this whole recap throwing, you know, it's
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: definitely like recaps it. The wind is flowing through, this
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: is what's going on over here, and this is what's
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: going on over there, which, in fairness Jordan used to do.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: He just didn't used to do it for three four pages.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, then we get one of the
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: coolest things about this intro, I think, which is where
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: our normal wind routine we're very used to it. We're like, wow, Sanderson,
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: you're really just going and going and going. And then
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: mid thought, a bubble of evil hits the wind, right,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: the wind, the narrative wind, the omniscient wind. Like I
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: didn't think that the plot could touch the wind that
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: seems kind of fucked up. It's almost like the seals
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: on the Dark One's prison are like weakening, and like
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: the boundaries of reality are getting a little fuzzy because
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: the narrative narrator Wind just got hit with the bubble
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: of evil and shoved off track.
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Well, because that wind is the pattern, right, It's like
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the wind that that's the pattern observing things, and the
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: wind is being corrupted by the Dark.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: One, right, and also Rand is really corrupted by the
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Dark One, And this is how the wind gets tumbled
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: into Rand's presence. The wind was not headed towards Rand,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: but then it gets yoinked towards him in a very
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: violent and dark and evil way. And that just feels
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: very narratively four dimensional and excellent and direct.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Because I feel like, again, there's a lot of meta
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: in these early chapters. I feel there's a lot of
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Brandon sort of talking to us, talking to us about
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: how he's starting the books, how he feels at the
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: beginning the books, but at the same time putting some
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: recap on top of that.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And this was how I was reassured in fairly short order,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: in not very many chapters that he was going to
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: do a good job, because he is spending all this
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: time explaining what he's going to do and how he's
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: going to do it. And I'm like, yes, okay, yes,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: all right, I see. I'm willing to give you a chance.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I see what you're trying to do. And I
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: see that the language is there. I see that the
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: metaphors are there. I see that the characters are there. Right, Like,
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not impressed yet.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Right, but I'm willing to let you through the first
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: round of auditions. Right, you're making the first cut, and
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: we'll let you into the smaller group.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Yet the meta communication is on point above the books. Now,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: I want to see that happen in the books, which
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: is something that I don't know that he ever got
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: really dialed in.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: But we're making a good start here.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you get this. Basically, the wind blows one way.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: The pine needles are going one way, and the flags
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: are going the other way, and so obviously like you
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: have wind blowing two different directions at the same time.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is happening in front of randelphor enter
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: protagonist center stage, and he is, of course we get
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: we get the fun little narrative bit of him thinking
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: of his hands and then catching himself being like, yeah,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: just one, which is something it's always fun to try
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: to track in books, like did they catch every single
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: time right that they meant to say hand? Where they
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: said hands?
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Like, But here he's got a great in world way
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: to be like if I missed one, it's just Ran
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: making mistake.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: It's good, it's good. I like it good a lot.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: And of course his first thought is steel, right, which
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: is where tears from steel. That's where the title comes from.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: But like we've seen him, we get progressively harder. He
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: has to be stone than steel, and eventually we'll see
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: him be Quendyar once Semarrog does her thing right like.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Right and this it goes through the chapter two. At
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: the very end of the chapter, he says tears could
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: not come from steel. It's just he's he's you know,
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: he's gotten past his stone phase and now he's into
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: his metal phase.
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: Metal is harder than stone.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Depending on what kind of stone and metal if we're
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: talking about I mean, we're talking about brass and copper,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: are we talking about granted? I mean, what are we
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: doing here? Mm hmm. I'm just saying.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I knew I was going to get a reaction out
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: of you with that statement. I was like, let me
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: generalize two things and compare them to each other. Will
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: they get a reaction out of a radia? Yes, yes
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: it will.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, But I mean you could say that metallurgy is
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: in broad like as a concept of material science, you
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: are able to make things that are harder than all
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: but the rarest of rocks. Sure, fine, that's yes. He's
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: getting into engineering instead of just natural materials.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: So he's in this Lord lan Lan's manner just sort
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: of again, kind of hiding out in various spots, not
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: trying to get a lot of attention. He's trying to
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: hide out and plan right with Bashir.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Right. He's been hop around cool little forest retreats and
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: calling it work. Sure, honey, I need to go to
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: this really nice fishing lodge to work for the conference. Yeah, definitely,
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: not just relaxing. He's been like a week's long, like
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: roving vacation, except with you know, death and maiming and stuff.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: Poor guy, it's complicated.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, And he's like he's frustrated though, because he's
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: been trying to relax, but he keeps obviously those the
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: attack on Alkimore's castle. Right, my hands, my hands, right,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Like we're just coming.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: Off of that, right, But he's just going to other
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: places like that, trying to recreate that feeling from before
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: that attack, and it's just not quite hitting the same.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: His eyesight's getting better from being basically his eyes being
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: burned by the flash of fire and the light. He
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: essentially got sun burned on his eyes, right.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: His retinas got flash burned a little bit, and they're
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: getting better, but like slow, and I don't think that
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: they ever actually get back to where they were.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: No, because I mean, this is very much the Blind King, Right.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: There's this metaphor here of like he's blinded himself and
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: only once he's blind can he truly see.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Right, And he's not truly blind, but like he does
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: have some pretty significant ocular damage, which is like maybe
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: close enough for prophetic purposes.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know he's going to shed that body
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: like a cocoon. He's he's going into a different one,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: so he's leaving this one behind, and he does he
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: thinks like, hey, I am getting so beat up. Basically,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: this is one of his thoughts in this chapter, like
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: I need to get to the last battle. It's like
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: the final thought of the chapter, or else I'm not
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: going to be able to make it. I'm not going
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: to be able to survive like or else.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: There will be nothing left for the dark One to kill.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: Which it's just so blak.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: We'll get the right so blak.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I mean you get it. Those who
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: burn the brightest, burn the fastest. You hear this all
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: the time. You hear about these great conquerors who conquer
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the world in five years and we're dead in ten.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: You Alexander, Yeah, Alexander's very bad, no good day.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But also rock stars, you.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Know, yeah, the dead by twenty six is a thing like.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: How many rock stars have made it to old age?
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Not many? Some do, some do. I mean, obviously we
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: all have to be considering the world we're going to
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: leave for Willie Nelson, you.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Know, Oh the boomers will out love us Hall.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: But yeah, he's his his his eyesight is damaged in
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: a way that feels relevant to the prophecies around what
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: yes to go through.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, very much. So that's the blinding that he goes through,
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the blind King of the Fisher King right, because he
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: does that sort of homeless wander blind thing.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: Right, He's like, got yeah, yeah, it's a whole aesthetic.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: He thinks about how everything he does now is focused
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: only on need, and what he needs is the lives
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: of those who follow him. I just feel like that's
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: both correct and bleak. Like, you know, there's a way
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: that zen Rand can say that that isn't creepy and bleak,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: but because it's Darth, Rand saying is very bleak.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Right, right, It's where context makes all the difference, right,
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: it does. It's amazing how the actions between the two
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: aren't all that different, but it means, you know, the
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: food isn't spoiled once he comes down off the mountaintop,
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and all the things around him are reacting in a
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: positive light because he's of the light and it's all
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: about his internal struggle.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: The land is holding its breath, according to the opening narration,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: and he is very much not yet the exhaled breath
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: that he will be as he comes down from Dragon
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Mount and makes apple trees like go through their entire
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: season in a thirty second period.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: No, this is where food is spoiled, like, they make
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: a point in the saying food is spoiling around them.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Everything tastes bad even more so around Rand, right, Like
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: he's supposed to be the balance, but because he's basically
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: on the dark side, he's just getting bad too.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then when he bounces back, you know, he
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: has to bounce back a corresponding amount the other direction
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: in order to like begin to create equilibrium, because that's
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: just how.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Cigin waves work, I mean, or threads in the pattern.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: As I said, Yes see we got we have to say,
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: you know, there's string theory, but then we have to
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: create thread theory.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, basically this is this is thread theory, thread theory.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, he was qualified enough to set us up
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: for that jip, and it's right.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: So we're how any like halfway through this chapter and
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: we're still talking about well, even the soldiers are noticing
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: the wind blowing the wrong way. At least it's not
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: the dead walking again. I mean, we are so far
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: into this chapter and we still haven't done anything other
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: than the wind blowing the wrong direction.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: Sanderson is not rushing it.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: No, not, He's like, I am just gonna dip my
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: fingers in the pool that is the wheel of time here.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna recap a lot. I'm gonna tell you what
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: I care about. I think that's that's what he's saying, right, Like,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: here's he talks about the border Landers, he talks about
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the White Tower, he talks about Rand, he talks about
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Rand's plans coming up, vienda coming back, right, this, this
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: is all this sort of like what is what am
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: I going to be writing about in this book?
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Especially associated with what is Ran going to be doing
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: in this book? Well, he's got two plans. He wants
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: to make peace with a Sean Chan and he wants
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: to settle Aerodomon. I mean he says that just straight
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: out loud mm hmm.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: And he does it. We know because he does, and
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: that's what the plan is what he does.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: So again this is just Brandon being like, yes, this
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: is what I'm doing in this book with Rand going forward.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: So it's a it's a lot of recap and then
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: a little bit of foreshadowing and sort of planning for
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: what's going on. And we know we know Sanderson's a planner, right,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I mean that he loves to plan out everything before
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: he starts.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Writing, right and more immediately, Samarag also he is letting
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: us know that Semarag is going to be getting dealt
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: with forthwith. She is not going to be a slow
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: burn plot. We are dealing with her soon. Yeah, Randa
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: is getting a little bit like into his hole. I'm
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: just going to use men because I lead her to
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: love me. And it's like, dude, that's literally what she's offering.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: It's not using someone if you take what they offer.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: That's that's not how using people works. But yeah, and
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: then he thinks this great line about about Summarog that
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Sammarag is, you know, terrible. She killed a thousand men
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: a thousand different ways to see how their screams would
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: differ from one another. But she rarely lies, which I
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: just love that as an insight into the forsaken as
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: being different kinds of evil. Some of the forsaken you
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: can't trust a damn thing they say, samarag Part of
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: what makes her scary is that she basically is always
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: saying the truth.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: She uses the truth against you exactly, it's going to
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: make you be painful, Like she not lying about the
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: needle digging into your eye, right, that's the truth, you know,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: Like that's that's her actual pain, you know, Like it's uh, yeah,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: so she's she's she's awful. But RAN's drawn a line, right,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: he doesn't want to kill any more women. That's his
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: whole I mean, and it's something we've harped on again
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: and again, and he's made a few mistakes, right. He
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: killed Leah in Shadow of Logo, he killed the Merchant
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: in book three The dragon Ry Born, one of the
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: few scenes we actually saw him on when he was
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: fucking nuts and the first time. Like he was crazy
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: back then, right, like this whole is he isn't he? Yeah,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: he's crazy, but she was a dark friend. There was
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: a you know, all that kind of stuff, right, But
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: this really does become the final straw, is the point
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: where basically killing Sammarag makes him go, Okay, now I'm
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: just I'm killing women. That's I'm no longer worried about that.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, it makes sense in a way because he
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: did put a lot of his personality on if I
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: cross that line, something will be wrong. So when he
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: crosses that line, the things go wrong, Like he did,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: he did know that about himself. He did promise that
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: to us, Like that was that was not out of nowhere,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: that that turn would be at that line. And we
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: might think it's dumb, but it is at least consistent
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: with what he's been saying.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Well exactly, yes, it is internally consistent. Yeah, definitely. That
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: has ran to a te very much so.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And like I mean, he gets forced to it in
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: a really like dramatic way, right, it is a watch
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: a woman die or watch a woman die. It becomes
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: his choice, and he chooses to watch his enemy die
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: instead of his lover, like he really you know, didn't
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: choose that in a meaningful way in so many ways,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: but it nonetheless breaks his brain and and you know,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: we get plot progression from that, and I.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: Just watch them die. But he has to kill them.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Either has to kill men or he has to kill Samarak, right, right,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: He's no longer given the choice like he is either
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: before skill Wan, and the only thing that's going to
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: stop him from killing men with his own hands is
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: to bail fire Samrog.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's it's simply the only way. And speaking
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: of men, if I may, if I may, if you men, so,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Robert Jordan and Brandon Sanderson and rand All collectively, all
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: three of them do not understand women at all, but
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: more importantly, they don't understand like the concept of gender
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: expression because it's like men still wear his pants, but
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: it's so weird how they make them, how she has
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: them tailored to look nice and has embroidery on them.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: And it's just like, I think Sanderson's not saying that.
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: I think he's making Rand clueless.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: But it is exactly where Jordan left off, and it
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: is it is the same cluelessness that we see in
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: the real world, particularly when it comes to the whole
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: concept of non binary people needing to defend the fact
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: that we don't owe anybody androgyeny, right, This is that
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: all over again. It's like, well, if you dress like
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: a boy, why would you want to look like a girl.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: It's like, fuck you, And you're policing of what looking
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: like anything is. It's just like so classic, and so
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: it's so annoying. Like I get Rand being confused because
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: he's a dumb boy, but like Jordan and Sanderson know
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: exactly what they're talking about. That baton pass was flawless.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. Maybe you don't, but someone
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: out there knows what I'm saying.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Well, and I think what he's writing it as oh,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: you know, men wore pants for a long time. And
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: then she added the ribbons to attract Ran because you
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: want to be attractive for Rand, Right, That's how he
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: wrote that character. And Ran totally glueless, doesn't understand why
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: she would put ribbons on perfectly functional pants when they're
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: there for him.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's so oh boys, oh boy. It's
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: very funny. It's very cute. And I also love that
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Min is wearing dark green. I just love that for
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: her as a choice, as a color choice, I think
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: that works.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: So I also going back to Samarag and what she
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: said about Rand, I feel like this is a chunk
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: of evidence that we really get from Sanderson where he
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: says the voice isn't real and even if it's real,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: it's even if the information is real, it's still insanity.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: You're not communicating, Like that thing from Samarag Sanderson is
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: reinforcing is true. Right, It's just a voice in his head.
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: He's insane. And Rand is doing this thing like you know,
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: what's this meaning of him? And he brings up the
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: prophecy of two people melding together, and I think at
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: the time that was hard for us to hear, like,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: oh man, what is going on with that prophecy? Doesn't
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: that mean they're two separate people. But we later know
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: that that's of course the bail fire crossing of the streams,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: and so that has nothing to do with the voice
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: in his head.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: Right, how does it get like meaningful memories of how
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: to channel?
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Though? So the information does cross, he does get actual memories, right,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: The memories are real. The taint has broken down the
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: barrier between his lives such that he has memories from
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: his previous lives. But we've seen Matt with memories from
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: other lives and they don't make him insane. They don't
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: create a voice in his head. The voice in his
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: head is one hundred percent insanity. The fact that he
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: has memories from his previous life and the fact that
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: he has a voice in his head are both related
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: to the taint, but unrelated to each other. He is
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: attributing those memories to the voice that is the insanity
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: in his head, but his ability to remember weaves to channel.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: That's just as he says later when he integrates with himself,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: I am Lewis theren I always have been. I've always
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: been that person. I've always had those memories. Well not
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that I've always had those memories, but I've always been
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: that person, and with the taint, I was able to
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: access those memories. And now that I've defeated the taint,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not insane anymore. And there's no voice and I'll
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: never hear his voice again. The voice was never real.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: The memories were real, the voice isn't.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah that that makes sense. It's complicated, but it makes sense.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: And what Jordan did is he gave us a template,
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: which in Matt, which is, here's someone who has voices
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: but no insanity, and he at some point he goes, yeah,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: I'm basically integrated those I can barely tell which ones
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: are mine which ones aren't mine. But he's always Matt.
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he doesn't have personality swings at all with that.
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: He just quotes things that are better read than he
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: should be.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not sometimes as saltine in general. He's not
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: sometimes an alterearan lord, right, He's just Matt who has
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: memories of fighting. Yeah, yes, pants Pants brought that up
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: in chat. Sometimes we think along similar lines, even if
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not always looking at chat, we do.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: We have definitely collectively created a space in which certain
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: thoughts have bounced around so many times. It's like, who
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: said that out loud. Last most recently, when was the
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: last time that I heard this? I don't know, because
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: it's so many times.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Look, we've hit the head canon, you know, and especially
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: this thing around Iran's insanity, right like it's something that's
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: brought up so often and sort of hinted at and
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: passed at, and it's it's really when we get to
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: these books again, because Sanderson just tells you everything, tells
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: you what's going on with Rand and lewis Thearren The
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: other thing I want to talk about this North and
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: East must be as one, the West and South must
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: be as one. The two must be as one. Are
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: we sure that's referring to geography and not like somehow
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: rand and and LTT or Rand and Ashameel merging together.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: The two must be as one.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: I always assumed that it was geography, but not the
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: geography that he meant. I always thought it was just
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: sort of a like, everyone from all four corners of
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: the world and all the seven seas need to be
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: united in the takedown of literal evil because that's how
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Hope stays alive. That was always my interpretation, and he
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: was just being way too like geopolitically specific thick about it.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: But also that's not a super strategically helpful prophecy. So
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: maybe it is something because okay, lose their one of
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: the either loose there in Aura Shamel could be associated
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: with the East because some quote that I'm not pulling
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: to mind right now, but I feel like there was
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: something easty about one of them. Maybe it's just the
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Lucifer thing.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Lord of the morning.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it, Sunrise, he comes with the dawn. Right,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: So Rand could definitely be associated with the East. But
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know how you would assign people to directions
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: or how you would decide what the other three people
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: should be to like make a quartette of explanation. Yep.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I like Athlon's idea that it was just Rand versus
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: the Shahna, and that's basically Rand's interpretation.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's Rand's interpretation, and that's and that's Sanderson's interpretation,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: and that's kind of how he writes the story out
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: to be. But then there's this last line the two
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: must be as one that just throws me off and
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: makes me think that, you know, Jordan wanted it to
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: refer to something else, and so I'm always looking for
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: more meaning to that prophecy than we get out of it.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: It's not a very whelming prophecy to me. Yeah, it's
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: it doesn't even really whelm very well, it's very underwhelming.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: It's like, I mean, yeah, humanity has to be united
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: in the face of literal evil, like what a profound insight.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: And also humanity isn't united and yet manages to win anyway,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: because it was actually all about rand having nice thoughts
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: in his head on top of a mountain like the
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: Sharins clearly do not destroy everyone's chances of winning, despite
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: the fact that they are working for Demondred and are
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: very happy to do so.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And I don't have a better interpretation. I'm
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: just looking. I'm looking to see if anybody does, But
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: I don't. I think that's just what you have to
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: go with.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we have it on good authority that prophecies do
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: not all have to be overwhelming.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: No, nope, I mean God, the other one he talks
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: about here about having uh Olivia help him die most
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: underwhelming prophecy out of the entire bunch, I'd put it
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: right up.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: There with you. Who pulls it out shall follow after, right,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: those those both that hit the same amount of like
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: womp womp for me.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: Oh he followed him after through a doorway, Like it's.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at least did literally help Rand fake his own death,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: Like at least that is literally like helpful. But yeah,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: it's just whatever.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: With I have to go like distant future, Rand becomes
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a wandering prophet and Rishma follows him or something like that,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: you know, and becomes the pall to his Peter.
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: That would have worked, but no, we just get a
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: doorway or some shit.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: You know. We got a reference to the Borderlanders, knowing
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: that we're gonna have to deal with them, figure out
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: what their deal is, which we of course. So that's
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: all prophecy based. That's why they're on the move, Yeah,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: and why none of their actions makes sense because it's
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: all prophesied to do this thing or else. The last
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: battle is.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Doomed, yeah, which again I think it's interesting that this
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: is in the chapter where we get that the wind
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: comes in and it blows not on the needles but
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: on the banners. The banners are what's wrong, and like
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's connected to the borderlanders. Rand is
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: misunderstanding what's going on with people. What's going on with people?
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: Is being pushed by forces he doesn't understand, et cetera,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: et cetera.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I see the Borderlanders is very much a bit of
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: a safety valve, right. It's this idea that if Rand
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: doesn't successfully complete the Veins of Gold up on the
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: mountain top, he would have been dangerous, right or or
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: if the border if he hadn't successfully gone up there,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: he would have still been on the verge of either
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: destroying us or would destroy us. Right. Like, so if
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: the board meets with the Borderlanders, they say you must
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: strike him down if he doesn't, if he's not basically
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: not integrated in with the LTT personality, And I think
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: that really is a way to say, Like, if they'd
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: killed them in that moment, yes, the last battle would
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: have been lost, but maybe we could have had another cycle,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: because again, I don't think the dark One can destroy
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: the world without the Dragon Reborn.
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: Right, if you kill Rand before he kills the.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: World, before he kills the world, and then you have
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: a chance for the next round and the dragon Reborn
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: can come back. Yes, you're going to die in darkness
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: and death for a millennium and like, but the wheel
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: will continue to turn, right, I think that's the big difference.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree for sure, because Rand could actually end
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: existence and so right, if he's prone to choosing that
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: once the Dark One offers it, then yeah, better to
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: have him die before he realizes that that choice was
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: on the.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Table exactly exactly.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: But yeah, people would survive because that's how people are. Slave,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: It's just how people are. There's a lot of people
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: in the.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: World, like right, right, right, right, a lot of different areas.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people have to do and like the bad guys
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: have to have some want to rule over right, So
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: you know, it's there would be a chance for the
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Pattern to work its magic eventually, but it won't happen
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: if Rand goes full nihilist.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Right, because again this is my theory that only Rand
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: can destroy the Pattern. The Dark One is not capable
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: of doing it.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: And it makes sense that the Borderlanders would be the
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: ones entrusted with that safety valve and to not corrupt
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: it and to not use that for political gains, but
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: to actually hold it in the same sacred, pure trust
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: that it's been held for all those thousands of years.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: You know, like the Borderlanders can handle that responsibility.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if I had to say what the Dragon actually is,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: it's the only person capable of ending the wheel. That
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: there was a bargain between the Creator and the Dark
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: One that someone had to be capable of ending the
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: pattern because neither one of them can do it, And
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: so there has to be this person who comes along
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: every once in a while and makes a choice to
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: not destroy the pattern and keep the Dark One imprisoned.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: And that person is the Dragon.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: Reborn Rand is the Big Red Button.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I like that. I like that you need
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: a third party to arbitrate between the two.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And that explains all the Dark One's actions, all
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: of a shame Shawmmeel's actions, all the not killing him,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: all the torturing them, all the chasing after him, all
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: the weird motivation that Varren can't figure out. Right, Like,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: the whole point is too corrupt Rand to the point
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: where he pushes the big Red button and ends the world.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: And so I think you know, there's basically one more
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: chance after Veins of Gold, the Dark One has one
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: more chance, which is the last battle, because then they
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: do the whole weaving of threads back and forth, and
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: so there's a moment where the Dark One can convince
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Rand to end things right.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: But Rand is integrated enough with himself and chill enough
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: with himself that like he, you know, judges that an
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: unworthy choice.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Right. Then that's where I think Fain would have been
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: another great escape valve for that the pattern is creating
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: all these escape valves. If Rand's not doing the right
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: thing right, either the Borderlands are going to kill him,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: the Landers are gona kill him before he can do it,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: or if he does kill the dark One, Fain pops
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: up and takes his place. So you still have an
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: evil presence in the universe, it's just the female half
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: of the evil presence instead of the male half of
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: the evil presence. If you want to talk about.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: It that way, sure, which Jordan would you know?
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I just yeah, all these sorts of things. I
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: really I like that idea.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm super into it. Ohrand also has a
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: little bit of spidy senses through the bond that Elaine
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: has achieved her goals in and Or, just as another
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: expositional reminder that Elaine has achieved her goals in and Or,
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Rand can feel relief, that existential relief.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: That's probably I was going to go with smugness, but
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: you know what, I call it relief if you want,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: you know, line up. He did what he could do,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: and for now he had two goals, Piece and Araro
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Doomon and a truce with a sean Chen.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and he's wondering why the shan Chen haven't
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: responded to his requests for a meeting. He's like, this
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: is my most important goal. I sent messengers back. Everything
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: is very important, and they're just not opening my letters.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: Like what's happening?
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Isn't the answer? Basically internal politics, right, isn't. Isn't She
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: just doesn't trust him and is worried and like thinks
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: she wants to it. They want to attack the White
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Tower first before they make a truce because they want
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: to negotiate from this position of power. It's all about
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: like this Golgon Tuon internal politicking stuff, which is why
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: they're not responding to him.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: I believe that is it. Yeah, I'm not sure about
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the specifics, but yes, I believe it has to do
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: with the fact that Tuon literally thinks that she is
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: as important as the Dragon Reborn and needs to secure
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: her position before she decides how to deal with Rand
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: much less. Actually, deal with him.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: Which I one hundred percent believe is Shameel again, right,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: like he corrupted the prophecies of the people he sent
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: across the sea, and so she believes these corrupted prophecies
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: created by created by Shamael, which mean like this hole
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: you have to kneel to the crystal throne and all
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: this kind of crap that are totally made up, right,
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: because we see them come across and look at the
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: prophecies of the dragon on this side of the ocean,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: and see how badly corrupted they are by the people
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and all the lies in them that don't talk about
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: the crystal throne and don't talk about this and don't
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: talk because yeah, all the prophecies in the shan Chan
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: are made up stuff by a Shawmael and have no
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: truth to them whatsoever.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: But it's a self reinforcing myth at this point because
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: it essentially existed and I mean not truly but essentially
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: an echo chamber, right, they had no one counter factualing that.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: So now it just seems like both sides of the
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: argument are equal, and they're not. We know as omniscient
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: readers that they're not equal sides of the argument, but
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: like one side keeps claiming foul, so clearly there must
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: be something to investigate, right, Like that logic, that's how
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: that works, right, Yeah, Well that logic works on large
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: swaths of people over large amounts of time, as in
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: shaw Chin, and it does make two on very nearly
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: a catastrophic liability to the good side, even though she
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: is in her own mind very much aligned with the
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: good side. She has no desire to work for the
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: dark one and to be part of that.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: No, And god, I am so upset that she never
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: really gets shown up. She kind of does her thing
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: and it pays off. She wins the last battle by
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: doing her thing and doing exactly what she wants to.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: It's very upsetting.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, when doubling down on your bullshit works.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: So frustrating, right, It's like I was playing pool the
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: other night last night, and yeah, I just kept hitting
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: bullshit shots in and never got so frustrated because I
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: kept winning on bullshit shots. And she's like, why does
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: that keep working? And I'm like, I don't know, it
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: just does. It's infuriating, but sometimes you get lucky.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: It's true, particularly with Pool. I mean that that shit
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: just comes in waves. Unless you're like does if you're
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: an amateur, it comes in waves.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: And you know sometimes if you practice, those waves come
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: more often. But it did. Yeah, it's definitely waves. Uh,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: and somehow those waves correspond with how many drinks you've had.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Can't imagine that there's a correlation there at all? No, no, all, right,
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: where are we at?
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: Davren Basher himself rode slowly through the camp parking orders,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: through that thick mustache of his. She's dick. Yeah, so,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Lord Basher, you know, Fiel's father has been just absolutely
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Rand's number one general for quite some time now, and
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: the generals will become important.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Later, right, And he's got eight thousand soldiers here with Rand.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: They're you know, cruising around with him as a guard essentially,
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: and he's yeah, running interference with all the manor house
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: lords basically being like, Hi, yes, I know it's the
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: dragon ryborn, but you know me, we met at the
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: ice cream social three summers back. It's cool, We're cool.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: I'm bescher Man.
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: They really is looking through this. It is just a
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: list of this person Basher, and then it brings up
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Grendel and Arradmon's like, yes, they're also going to be important.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: We're also going to deal with Grendel and aerodom On.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: It's like this list of people that, like, yes, he's
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: going to go through I bet if we you know,
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: I should have matched this up to the chapters and
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: been like, are these people actually listed in the chapters
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: in which they appear, or like it feels like he
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: really is just listing off the rest of this book
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: and the people he's going to end up dealing with,
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: just to give you a little bit of like premonition.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: It's it's a little more transparent here than I thought
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: it was going to be. She had a hidden retreat somewhere. Hmm.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: I wonder if we're going to go bail fire it.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Hmm hmmm mmm. Yes, the loss of his hand that
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: was in primary store hand would leave him vulnerable if
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: he were to face a skilled opponent. Yeah, and we're
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: gonna have to work through that with his father. So
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: that's also something we're going to touch on. Right, every
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: one of these paragraphs almost relates directly to a plot
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: point later in either this book or the next one
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: that he's clearly planning on touching on.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Yep, yep. And then he also and he also thinks
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: about the sword, which is like this mysterious, random, cool
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: sword found in one of the only lakes in all
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: of rand Land that Rand has for reasons that never
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: really seem super relevant, but is important to him emotionally.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Honestly, choosing the rule ruling class by ladies and lakes
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: is not a great form of government. It's really you
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: should you should avoid that at all times. Also, a
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: Ninive should have been the one to pull it out.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: She's clearly the lady of the lake, which is reinforced
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: by where she overcame her block at the bottom of
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: a lake, right, and then she emerged from it a
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: new woman. Truly this you know, I don't know if
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: we made that connection at the time. I assume we did, but.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: I have never particularly thought. But obviously Ninive and nimwe
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: are meant to be like similar names, like obviously.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: Right, right, that's that's her anchor and the Arthurian legend.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: This is true. The sword and the Stone was not Excalibur.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: This is true. The sword and the lake was Excalibur.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: The sword and the Stone was a different.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Sword, right, So this is Excalibur, right.
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: Apparently, Yes, Rant has finally achieved getting Excala. The sword
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: was meant to have the Sword of the Stone, so
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: we went backwards order in this story. But whatever, It's fine. Wait,
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming that the Sword in the Stone comes after
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: the EXCaliber part am I remembering my Arthurian legend correctly.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I mostly know it from children's movies.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, Disney. You've ruined my idea of what
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: the sword and the Stone and north Arian legends actually
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: are supposed to be. Yeah.
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, I don't quite understand the point of this
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: sword or why it's given such an interesting and significant
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: origin place which there was a discussion in our discord
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: a while back about lakes in Randland and how there's
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: literally like two mentioned ever and then also one gets
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: made in shadow Logoth, so that's three. But like, this
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: is one of the only lakes ever mentioned in all
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: of Randland.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Ever, there's a lot of rivers, not a lot of
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: lakes if you look at them up.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: And one pond, couple ponds.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: So I honestly think this is one of those places
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: where Sanderson did a self insert because this is the
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: sword he I think this is the sword he took
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: from Jordan's collection.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: I did get a feeling like this was Sanderson saying, look,
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: you found a bright, shiny object in the middle of
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: all the bullshit, and it'll cut through to the end
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: like I will as a writer. So that would make sense.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: That would make sense that Brandon found a cool sword
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: quote unquote, you know in this whole process of becoming
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: tapped to be the heir to the series.
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fire Phoenix is saying, Excalibur and caliber and are
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: the same sword in just different languages.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: So I don't know my Arthurian legend well enough to
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: even touch that, So thank you appreciate it. I mostly
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: just you know, watched the Disney movies and then got
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: briefly interested when that Dan Brown book was all the riche.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: So I have a couple of questions about this sword, right, Okay,
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: So a lot of times when we get power rot swords,
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: the blade is good, but the rest of it is
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: all rotted, especially if it's been underwater. But he describes
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: this as the law. Slightly curved, lacquered scabbard was painted
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: with a long, sinuous dragon of red and gold. It
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: looks as if it had been designed specifically for Rand,
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: and yet it was centuries old on Earth only recently.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: The blade is power rot not the fucking scabbard.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not how underwater archaeology works, Brandon. No, unless
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: they're suggesting they found a stasis box and that sword
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: was the only thing in it.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, But like the other all the other swords
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: that he picks up that are power rot and are
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: you know unearthed, have rotting scabbards, rotting hilts, right, they
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: all have to be essentially rebuilt from the blade up
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: because the blade's the only good part. That's why Layman's
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: sword was all covered in jewels and gems and shit,
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: and like he gave Avienda all that stuff back and
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: just kept the blade and the blade blank that went
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: into a new scabbard, new hilt that he had to
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: have made.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Maybe it was like really really expensive and someone
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: got like a nice keeping put on it because it
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: was like, you know, like the Lamborghini of swords or whatever.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: It is supposed to be. Right, the reason he recognizes
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: it is because he recognizes it as justice when it
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: is carried by ardur hawk wing when the horn is blown.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, is that why he recognizes it? I was gonna ask, like,
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: what's up with Rand knowing it from his own memories. Oh,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: because he saw the dream version of it in Arda
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: hawk Wing's hand, in.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: Arder Hawkwing's hand when the horn is blown back in
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: book two, The Great Hunt.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: That makes sense. But yeah, that still doesn't explain the
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: scabbard being untouched by being underwater for like what a
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: thousand years.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: Right, right, maybe if it's in the hilts and like okay,
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: but anyway, so he has this fancy new it's another
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: power rock blade, but he can't even use it because
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have a hand. So it seems kind of,
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: you know, very much a decorative sword only as a
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: sign of your stasis in station.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it makes sense because Rand has had a
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: lot of his identity, like as a man of the
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Two Rivers, as a man of the Borderlands, training as
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: a man at all, as a person who can defend himself,
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: like he's wrapped up a lot of his identity and
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: having a sword, so to have the sword that like
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: one of his like demigod icon heroes had on him
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: as like, I mean, that makes sense. It's a security blanket.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, just right, Archer hawk Wing is Archer
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: pen Dragon, Right, that's a very obvious one. To one
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: history part right.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Excalibur for sure, for sure was kind of problematic
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: because he was actually just a warlord in a savage time.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: But whatever, it's fine.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: You know the usual. That's why legends fade to myth
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: all right, because the reality is they're real people in
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: real times and the myths are not. I'm just saying,
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: like the stories are not.
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: Post Roman Britain was a place that was difficult to
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: exist in, That's what I'm saying, Like, unlike everywhere else
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: in the world, everyone else in the world was fine.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: It was just that one pock of the world where
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: things were difficult. Everything else everywhere at the rest of
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: the planet was fine.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: I find out you somehow are correct.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine why you would say that my logic
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: is impeccable.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: So Income cod Swain and Ninive at her heels, right,
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: because Ninive has become Codswayne two point zero with the
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: same Tarran real and is learning everything she can from
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: her and ever since the cleansing has really just become
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: codswayin's little second.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: She wants to be Codswain when she grows up. Yeah,
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: and so she's yeah following her around mirroring her. And
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: this is a line that, like when I first listened
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: to the book, when I first read the book, listened
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: to the book, when I first went through this book,
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: I remember this line really stood out to me. The
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: dark haired eyes to Die had never quite giving up
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: given up on being wisdom of emmons Field. And in
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: my mind that took me out of it for a
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: minute because I was like, Ninive is still the wisdom
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: of emmons Field, because I guess really identify with her
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: and was like, I've been in Nineve's head. I know
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: how she thinks about things. She is still not totally
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: settled on the whole being done with being the wisdom
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: of emmons Field thing like she's still coming to terms
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: with that. But to have Brandon Sanderson and Randa Thor
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: both looking at her from the outside and saying, oh yeah, no,
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: that is so far in the rearview, she just is
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: an iceed to die now, like stop thinking of her
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: as the wisdom just like was very jarring to me
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: the first time I read it, not in a bad way,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: but just in a holy shit, we've come a really
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: long way kind of way.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, well, and I think she's really
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: had a moment herself. I think in her head we
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: had the moment where she said, you know, I am
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: not that wisdom anymore. I have become an I sid
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: I for my own. It started for various reasons of protection,
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: and then it became other reasons, and then it became
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: about other things. And I am now more eyes said
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: I than I want. I want to admit.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: And what the line actually says has nothing to do
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: with how it hit me when I was just like,
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: they just chet that in my ears, Like what do
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: you mean? But no, that's you know, her and I
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: are both in denial. That's what I'm trying to get to.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: Gotcha, Okay, as long as you admit the ear in denial.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: I wasn't denial the first time I heard it, Like
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: I'm over it now.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: But when this book was new, illow that ninety was
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: dressed up in the Monti Fascians immediately in the local fashion, right,
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: the brand new right, this is like new, not just
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: the fashion but the newest fashion of course, the immediate,
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: like dressing up in new clothes. So just again showing
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: us how far she's come from that wisdom who only
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: wore you know good two river woolens and nothing else.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: She's complaining about how her tour on Grioll don't match
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: her clothes.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Right, jewels possible to match this jewelry? Yeah, I have
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: so much jewelry I have to wear.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, And then we get to talk about Olivia.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Do we have to?
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: I mean no, there's an intensity to her that almost
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: adjusts a white cloak. Let's look out for her in
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: the fourth age. She might go on a murderous rampage
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: and be a problem to society.
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: I see it more as the converted, right, she's really
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: converted to being loyal to Rand and that that like
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: that that passion of the converted, those who have come
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: to a cause and support it with a fever because
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: they've gone from a life where they didn't have a
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: cause to having something to live for for the first time.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: I still think we should keep her on a list
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: and just check in on her now and then.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely, Yeah, I wasn't disputing that. Yeah, Like,
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: as Vouji says, no, Zell like a convert.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and just like she's very powerful and has a
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: lot of access to grind and has almost white cloak
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: like zeal like let's just keep her on all list.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Somewhere he still wants to live through the last battle
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: because he's telling himself to stop hoping for it. So
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: you can tell that that means he's hoping for it
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: if he's still pushing it down.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: Right, Min still doesn't like Olivia because Olivia, because right
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: she loves Rand, doesn't want to see him die, doesn't
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: want to admit that he has to die, even though
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: her own viewings have said that. But then and of
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: course there's this moment where she's like, well, she was
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: wrong about Moraine, which knows she wasn't. Like, we'll get
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: to that, but she's not wrong. But this is this
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: moment of hope that like, maybe Min is wrong about
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: me dying because she was wrong about Moraine. But though
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: that's not good because then all of my plans are
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: based around men being right. So she's wrong about me dying,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: then that's a real big problem because then she could
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: be wrong about all this other stuff and we could
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: lose the last battle very easily. Yeah, you know, then
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: we get some recap on some men's visions. Min said
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: to do something important. He needed to learn about god.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Swain, and he's finding her advice useful. This is the
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: interesting place. Rand has made a few concessions to kat Sway,
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: and she's made a few concessions back. They're starting to
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: have a functional, working relationship, sort.
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: Of the one that like Moraine finally got to with him,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: just in a very different kind of relationship. But at
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: least it's working.
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's becoming functional in a way that it has
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: not been. And he even you know, asks her with
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: the honorific how their you know, conversation went, and it's
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: like it's almost working. And then later in the chapter
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: when he blows up, she doesn't chastise him because she
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: recognizes he's having an episode. He's not you know, not
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: holding his temper in the way like she's. Really she's
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: feeling very successful about her work with him in this
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: chapter all around, I think.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Which is crazy because he's at it has his worst
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: I yeah, I dispute her priorities entirely. I don't think
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: that what she's looking for is at all what he needs.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: I don't think that him being able to ask her
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: politely how the interrogation went is a thing that she
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: should be spending her energy on. But she does.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: So this is where I really come to correlation is
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: not causation. It's like, once he becomes a better person,
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: yes he is polite, However the politeness doesn't cause him
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: to be a better person. And enforcing the polite It's
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: same thing with kids, right, Yes, you want to teach
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: kids to be polite, but I feel like sometimes in
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: forcing that behavior doesn't mean they're going to be polite,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: because like they have to learn the behavior.
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: Right, and they have to know like the underlying motivation,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: not just the form of how you get away with
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: social convention.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Exactly, because that makes a psychopath.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: Katsween is very form over function, yes, and that is, yeah,
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: an attitude that tends to lead people into some very
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: toxic like well but I said the right words but
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: meant the wrong things with your actions. It's like, doesn't
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: really matter the words you said.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: This is where I think some people mistake politeness with kindness. Yes,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: and so they'll be like, oh, oh, people are so
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: kind there, and we'll be like, no, people are very polite.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Right, yes, yes, this is the Southern politeness. This is
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: Oregon nice, right, Like there's there's a lot of organize
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: is actually a different organized is a lot more being
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: an asshole on the surface of it, but it's very
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: much the like southern niceness in.
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: A different way.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, well yeah, bless your heart is the
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: is the meanest thing you can say. Like, clearly that
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: is a confusing system.
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: The fact that people like Minnesota and nice, Southern nice,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: organ nice. It's like basically anywhere except like New York,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: where they're actually blatantly an asshole to you. Somebody, you've
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: got some version of.
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: This, Yeah, yeah, the East Coast they're just like fuck you.
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: But also I brought you soup in a in a
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: very different way. Pennsylvania and Ice is very different from
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: oregon Ie. Yeah, but it's almost like there's just problems.
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: We get some references the torture and quotes of samrog
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: which is just sternly asking her questions while they feed
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: her soup uh an oatmeal, right, like.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Least effective interrogation. I can imagine. They're like, we have
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: no real things we can do to you, and your
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: boss is our enemy, so it's not like we can report.
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: What are you gonna do to her? Right? What can
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: you do? And why would she have any reason to
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: work with them? She's like literally the embodiment of opposite
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: to them, Like it's very silly for them to be
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: like tell us things, or we'll hold your lunch for
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: thirty minutes, like it's so ridiculous, and.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: Rand freaks out. He's like he's got his PTSD around
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: the box and torture, so he's like, I will not
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: torture anyone. I won't do that to anyone because I
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: it wouldn't want anyone to do death to me.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: But also especially because it's a woman. But also like
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: what if I put her in the box? Ooh, now
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: I'm having flashbacks to the box, like he's he's having
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: flashbacks to the box which have nothing to do with
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: anything that's happening right there. Like he's having such a
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: bad day. He's having a horrible, no good, very bad day.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: And so Godswyn's like, well, what do you want to
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: do with her? Why don't we just turn her over
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: to the White Tower? And he's like which one, right,
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: Like there's the rebels and then there's the Alida and
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: like I'm clearly not allied with Lida, but like I
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: don't think I want to give it to the rebels either,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: because they're not a real White Tower because that's how
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Rand thinks.
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean also it was a rhetorical sarcasm a
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: question because as he thinks, she would never actually let
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: that happen. But you know, she's like, you're not letting
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: me do anything? Like are you trying to get her
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: to just go to the White Tower? Like what are you?
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: What are you doing? Rand? What are we talking about?
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: And he's dismissing all the women in his life. He's
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: not listening to Codswain, right, he says, you know, Agwayne,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: she's Amberlin. Of course she's going to She's just another
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: isidigey like right, like Ninive said something, but Rand ignored her, right,
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: Like there's these levels of just like the women in
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: my life can go fuck off. I have no interest
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: in listening to them or their opinions.
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: The way he talks about Agwayne here, I will stab
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: him with a fork, Like how fucking dare you? She
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: would just let Samarak go and gentle me just to
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: put another notch in her belt. She's an icide through
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: and through, and all she cares about is my place
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: in her plans. Like first of all, you're the dragon
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: reborn and she's the armland seat. So it is her
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: literal job to care about what is happening to you
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: and make sure that her plans are like incongruence with
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: what you're doing, but also like what she wouldn't gentle
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: you for political game? What the hell is wrong with you,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: you fucking asshole.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: This is Lewis Thearren. This is Ran holding a grudge
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: from the women I sidai in The Breaking not helping
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: him imprison the Dark One, even though later he admits
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: if they'd help them, it would have corrupted both tat
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: halves of the one power.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: Right, Grudges aren't rational.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: So this is a grudge from three thousand years ago
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: combined with trauma of him thinking about the Box and
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: lashing out at the women around him because of what
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: women did three thousand years ago in The Breaking, and
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: how he's still bitter about that.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: He's a cabing a GWayne but like literally, like yeah,
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: he's he's mad at an institution that doesn't exist anymore, right,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: Like she's literally from the organization that came after the
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: people that made the decision.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Like and that's and the reason why I think that's
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: the point is right that he gets so worked up.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: He finally says tell me burn you Kinslayer, tell me
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: what he's What is he yelling about? He's yelling about
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: why didn't the women help him? That tell me why
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: the women don't didn't help you.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's because you don't fucking listen to them when
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: they try to help.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: Me. Let's look at all the evidence of the previous
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: two pages. Why didn't they help you? Because you're being
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: a dick to them, that's why. And we're back then too, probably.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: One assumes, yeah, so yeah.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: It's it's I think right there on the page where
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: it's like, why is he yelling, he's yelling because kin
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: Slayer won't tell him about the women and.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: Loose Thearren is mad because the women didn't say that.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: He was right right at the beginning, and oh my god, god, wow,
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: man baby hand off intergenerational trauma of man baby experience
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: here just like he's having a bad day, but also like, wow, wow,
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: you need to talk to someone and like understand that
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: women have brains and motivations and full interior lives just
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: like you.
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: And Rand is realizing he's like, oh my god, I'm
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: I can't believe this. I thought that with the cleansing
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: of the source, I would get better because I would
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: stop being exposed to sidine and I would, you know,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: stop being because he didn't think he was mad when
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: he cleansed the source.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: Oh the thought he thinks I was supposed to be safe.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, nope, too late.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: It's like when he was pushing down the hope to live.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: It's like when he says I was supposed to be like, oh,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: you really are still just a scared little boy who's
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: terrified of going insane and now is realizing that he's
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: going insane. You've lost it, dude, Like you are in
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: fact going insane despite everything that you've done.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: And when we at the amount of taint on his brain,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: right when when Ninieve finally looks at the taint on
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: his brain, it is so much more than anyone else's brain,
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: which means he's probably been channeling with that taint. He's
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: been insane for longer than almost anybody else. So yeah,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: he was insane back in book three, and he's just
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: been channeling and going more and more nuts that entire
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: time until he finally cleansed the source. But at that
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: point it's too late. He's nuts.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: He goes into autistic burnout like really bat autistic burnout
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: and like book three, and then just has to keep
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: powering through. And yeah, at this point, all of his
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: dashlights are on, every last one of them.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: And yeah, like you says, he's used a huge amount
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: of sight, probably more than any other male channeler with
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: all his use of ingre alls and song exosed more
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: tape that mark. But yeah, right, yeah, that's if if
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: he wasn't over that mark already. Yeah, so he's not,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: he's not, you know, And this is the cleansing didn't
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: stop it because until someone ninieve came in, would you know,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: come in and pull the thorns out, right, all of
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: these men are going and be infected with that taint.
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: It didn't get flushed out of their systems.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 2: Right. It's kind of like heavy metal accumulation in the body.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: It doesn't really come out again.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: Right, even if you cleanse the river, You've still drank
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: all that water and accumulated all that heavy metal in
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: your body.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: Right right, exactly exactly, and.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: It's continuing to do damage because it's still there spiking
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: in your brain.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, basically exactly. And so yeah, Rand has his
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: outburst and then realizes that he's had an outburst, and
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: everyone's staring at him, and no one knows what to say,
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: and Kaswin does not chastise him because she recognizes, oh
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: this is this is a bad outburst. This is very
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: much not a thing. I want to poke with a
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: ten foot stick right now.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: And you get a list of his physical ailments, which
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: is just the readout. I think, so I think I
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: should read this out.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: It's a good bleak read out. Take us away.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Light. He thought, I'm losing control half the time. I
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: don't know which voice's mind and which is his. This
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: was supposed to get better when I cleansed sidean. I
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: was supposed to be safe. Not safe was there and muttered,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: we were already mad. I can't turn back from that now.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: He began to cackle, but the laughter turned to sobs.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: Rand looked around the room. Men's dark eyes were so
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: worried he had to turn away. Olivia, who had watched
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: the exchange about Simarrod with those penetrating eyes of hers,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: seemed too knowing. Niknee finally gave in and tugged on
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: her braid. For once, cod Swayin didn't chastise him for
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: his outburst. Instead, she just sipped her wine. How could
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: she stand the stuff? The thought was trivial, ridiculous. He
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to laugh, only the sound wouldn't come out. He
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: couldn't summon even a rye humor not anymore light. I
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: can't keep this up. My eyes see as if I'm
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: in a fog. My hand has burned away, and my
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: old wounds and my side rip open. If I do
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: anything more strenuous than breathe, I'm dry like an overused well.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: I need to finish my work here and get to
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: shield Ghoul, otherwise there won't be anything left of me
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: for the dark one to kill. That wasn't a thought
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: to cause laughter. It was one to cause despair. But
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Rand did not weep, for tears could not come from steel.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: For the moment, Lewis Theren's cries seemed enough for both
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: of them. Yeah, depression, it's bad.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: It's real bad.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: It's real bad.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: And next week, end of the week after that, I
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: believe we have double headers planned Yep.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: And Tremblow through some chapters.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: And that will take us through the end of the year,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: and then we'll be back in twenty twenty five for
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: a lot more double headers. Anytime Gowain comes up.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, basically anytime Gowan's around, we're gonna see if we
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: can get through those chapters as quickly as possible.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and as a reminder to everyone, I am hosting
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: a discussion circle on Thursdays at one pm Pacific time,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: same time as we normally do these recordings, just on Thursdays,
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: and there's no for that in the discord you can
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: use to get to it. And we have lots of
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: podcasts that we're making here at Fox and Ravian Media
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: and it's tays birthday, so wish them happy birthday.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: And if you haven't already, and I will most likely
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 1: be moving in January and or February, so there may
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: be some delays with recording in that area, just be aware.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know yet if or when. Sometimes setting up
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: internet's real fast and we can just record like nothing's happening.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: But I might also just need to take time off
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: to carry a lot of boxes.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: That's super super realistic that we might need to take
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: a break for you to move, because moving is a
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: lot of work.
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: Yes, so apologize about that ahead of time, and then
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: sorry for the uncertain tea about the schedule, but oh.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: Well, we'll figure it out. There's lots of other podcasts
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: in Fox and even Media that people can go listen
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: to in the meantime. If there's any gaps.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: Definitely, all right, well, thank you very much for joining us.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: Unless you want to explain to me what the hell
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: happened in South Korea today, we can keep going.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: I have been trying to stay focused on my work
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: and I don't know what's going on in South Korea
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: except making lots of news headlines. And I'm sure there
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: will be lots of podcasts you need to listen to
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: about it in two or three days.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: Not this one, not this one, No, no, no, all right,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: see you guys next week for chapters two and three. Bye.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: Please rate and review us on your podcast app and
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: consider supporting us on Patreon for ad free episodes. Watts
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: Spoilers is a production of Fox and Raven Media. For
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: more podcasts from Fox and Raven Media, visit our website
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: at Foxndravenmedia dot com.