Latest / TWO GUYS IN TIES / #4 – How to Win the Interview

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#4 – How to Win the Interview · TWO GUYS IN TIES

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: You're listening to Two Guys in Ties.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: We are back.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Mitch, you look really comfortable.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's hot.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: You look a little bit like a clown.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: By the way, I wore this jacket.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when was I somewhere last week?
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I was in New York.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't even know where I was.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: I just got back yesterday.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: But uh I got so many compliments on this jacket.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if I gotta wear a tie and I'm not wearing a suit, but I gotta wear a sport jacket, this thing pulls it all together.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I got a really, really good story I want to tell you all.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Should we tell everyone what this episode's about first?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead, tell them.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: You tell.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's about questions you should ask and questions to ask in an interview.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or even before the interview, right?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's ways to prep.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's interesting.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was in uh I was I've been traveling a crap load lately.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was meeting with a CEO who is in transition a couple weeks ago and was sharing the story about leaving a company, and um, and one of the things I asked him as he was telling me this story, I said, Did you talk to the board about non-negotiables?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the company was prior, prior to to private equity buying it, it was a family-owned business, and there's still some family people in the company.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know, whenever there's family, Mitch, you've done work with family companies.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Or wouldn't you say there's non-negotiables?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, those are third rail things, right?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: You touch that, you get you get fried.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a question I asked him is did you ask about the non-negotiables?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, when you walk into a company as a CEO, right?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Your goal is growth, grow, grow revenue, grow profits, grow profitability, grow efficiency, grow value, right?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: You want to do all those things, but there's certain things you just can't do, right?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Besides family companies, what other what other organizations might have some non-negotiables?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, private equity, I think, too.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Family has the most nuances, right?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: There's things where I think on the searches we work on, the most turnover within 90 days, where the person who, in our opinion, had the credibility and experience got fired was because of cultural misalignment with the family.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Something specific to, like you talked about, the the kind of nuances of that specific how decisions are made or how things happen.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, private equity, especially at the C-suite, too, like they're quick.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: If you're they're not seeing what they need to see, they're quick to make a move.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in this case, I said, how long did it take to replace you?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, immediately.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they always have somebody in the wings.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, I don't know if it's always or if it's, you know, sometimes they call us and say we got to plug an interim in there, but seems like oftentimes if they've got to plug a gap at the CEO level, they have somebody that they've worked with in the past, they know is not gonna screw it up.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: So if somebody is kind of making mistakes that they got a problem with, they can exit that person immediately, plug in a stakeholder or somebody who's just gonna hold it the way it is and not not mess it up.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then they go out and they do a search to bring into somebody who they think is gonna be a better fit.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, in a case like that, they probably didn't actually share some things that they should have either.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sometimes there's lack of transparency on on both sides.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's almost I look at a job, and we talked about this, I think, in our first episode.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot like a relationship.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you're trying to look good for the other person so much that you don't cut through the bullshit and get to the things that are gonna break this thing up.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that sometimes those things happen six months into the job.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I I heard this recently too.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to another founder, CEO, who's built a couple hundred million dollar company.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: I have a good friend who's done it over the last 25 years.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: He's built about a$300 million company, and he has certain non-negotiables, and it's been really hard for him to bring in somebody who he can leave the reins to because in his industry, they're all about ROI, right?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: But he got into the industry to change lives, right?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: So some of his non-negotiables are we're gonna change lives, and we're not gonna give that up.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're a candidate for a company like that, how would you how would you pose that?
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: What are the questions that you would use?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the first thing is look at the company you're interviewing for.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of companies just care about profits and care about revenue.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So understand, are you interviewing at a company that has something more to value than just functioning for solely financial or economic purposes?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that's where you can get really specific to your questions of you know, especially to a CEO like that, why did you start this?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: What drew you to this mission?
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you so personally connected to this?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do you bring other people in and not disrupt that mission as you grow from a$10 million company to a$300 million company?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so let's say that you're not just all about money and you're not just all about profits and growing that, but you want to be part of like a bigger why, right?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: What are you looking for in the term in the way of answers from that person you're asking to help direct you?
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: What are some of the answers that would be steering answers to say, okay, this is a company that's all about profits, or this is a company who actually seems like they have a higher purpose and seems like they value people, they value customers, they value vendors.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: What what what are you looking for?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I'd start because you're not just gonna sit down with someone typically and ask a really direct question.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you here?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Use here to make money.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, what I would first ask is tell me about the culture.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: What makes the environment here special and unique?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: What keeps the team connected, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: And what you want to see is quick and easy answers.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if the culture is unique and it exists, we have a client we just took on right now, uh, really unique company.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: They have their own language for culture.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's called firmware.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hardware are the people, right?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: The firmware connects the software and the hardware.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so software is almost like the emotional, the cultural component, and the firmware is what connects it all.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so like a company like that, that's really, really unique and very clear to spot out.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you ask those questions, they're gonna have quick answers with even their own language around how they communicate it.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so cultural mismatch usually could be um a kiss of death, right?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: If you're walking into a company, it seems good, but ultimately you you're not somebody who's gonna succeed there.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um how do we gauge for that if they don't come right out and tell you if they like most companies have a mission statement and a value statement, things like that.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: So they're gonna have answers for you, but how do you really know?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's where it's uh it's about feeling somebody out, right?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: In certain ways, interviewing is the same thing.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can hear the right words, but you gotta you gotta have a somewhat of an instinct to feel out what you're hearing, other than just the words.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Personally, for me though, when I coach people on how to interview, I take a little bit of a different approach.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have them start with what's the vision for this role?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where I wanna I wanna know that if I'm going somewhere, I'm gonna have growth.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and if I'm not gonna have growth, I know it's probably that tells me something about the culture too.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because the company I would want to work for has paths for every role of they want to see their people develop in their career, they want to be an actual home.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone wants someone who's looking for a home.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Most companies aren't an actual home.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're somewhere you spend a couple years, you hit your ceiling, and you move on to the next thing to get to the next rung on the ladder.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I think it again, it starts kind of like we talked about last episode from within of understanding what's important to you.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then the way I look at it is treat it like you already have a job you love, and you're trying to see if this one's better.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the questions will come to you naturally based on what you value and what's important for you if you have a job you love, and you're just seeing if this is better.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: So here's a question for you, Mish.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is a little bit of a pointed question.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: Have you seen the difference between somebody that you think would fit well in an entrepreneurial organization and maybe kind of um gives off that vibe of entrepreneurial, right?
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe they're not an entrepreneur, maybe they're not somebody who's ever started something, but they could move in that kind of fast-paced environment versus somebody who would prefer, I'll use this word structure.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: I hate that word because I don't actually know how to define it, because I'm an entrepreneur, right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know how to define it.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: But another way of saying it is bureaucracy, yeah, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: So how would you gauge yourself to know what kind of environment you fit in better?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think uh, and it comes down to sometimes variety, right?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Big companies, narrow swim lane.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Some people just want to clock in and clock out and know exactly what their day looks like and know that every day is gonna look kind of the same.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: They want work to be consistent.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: Other people are gonna be bored in that in that environment, and they want the fast-paced, kind of disruptive thinking.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: One day you're doing this, the next day you're doing that, and the third day you're undoing the thing you did day one.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it comes down to understanding what brings you energy and what kind of environment's gonna give you that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people we talk to who just are not interested in a smaller company, they just want to go into their corporate role and know what every day looks like, and that's okay too.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Reagan, what do you think about this?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: The idea of bureaucracy, structure versus no structure, entrepreneurial, and like think about young people that are your contemporaries.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, what kind of environment would they thrive in?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think it depends on the person, first of all.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: But I personally like something with a lot of variety.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: So how about structure?
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do you like structure?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Structure, I mean, you need structure in everything, but not bureaucracy.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think of bureaucracy?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't think it's great in an entrepreneurial company.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it to me it slows me down.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like it.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I like people who think on the feet.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: I I gotta tell you this.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: I have I'm I'm I'm gonna go off topic a little bit for a second, but I've seen, and I'm I'm curious from our listeners, I'd love to see comments on this too.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: How many people have run into people that are just making stuff up?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know if I told you the story, Mitch.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was flying um to Minnesota a few weeks ago, and I I take my coffee mug off the plane and I'm walking in and I had my protein powder in there.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: I just need to wash it out.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And the bathroom sink is just dribbling water.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's no way it's gonna wash it out.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I go into a restaurant and I asked the girls at the front, hey, would you guys mind washing this out in your high-powered, you know, dish, uh not dishwasher, but your sink back there.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm sorry, we can't take anything from the outside.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, why not?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they said, germs.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: I said, I'm gonna eat in your restaurant.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm actually gonna use your forks, use your glasses.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Those germs are gonna be fresher than the ones I'm giving you on this mug right now.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: But they made stuff, I just think they're making stuff up.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think they're creating a bureaucracy that doesn't need to exist anymore or doesn't need to exist right now.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think some people seem to be wired this way.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's a post-COVID thing when we had so many rules during COVID.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Does anybody think that?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was already like that.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: There, there's rule followers, even in elementary school.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's a guy who tattled tails or the girl who tattletales, right?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: There are people who love rules.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: They thrive in those environments.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's people like us who were the rule breakers.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: But where were these who made up this rule?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me about somebody that caught something from washing out somebody's mug.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't understand that, right?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was crazy.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm gonna say one other example, and then Reagan's gonna cut me off, I'm sure.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: I went to a place, a coffee place in Minnesota, and I go to pick up an egg sandwich.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's egg, ham, and cheese, and I can't have the cheese.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, hey, before you heat it up, can you take off the cheese?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm sorry, it's pre-made.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: I said, is it preheated?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, it's it's cold.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna have to heat it up, but I can't take off the cheese.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, let me take it off.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm sorry we can't let you do that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, what?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: I was out of my head.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, who's making this stuff up?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Who's running these businesses, people?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is crazy stuff.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think it is a little sign of the times.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to share with people out there.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you've run into this, let us know.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: If you're somebody that thinks like this, ask yourself, where did you hear this?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is this coming from up high?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm gonna tell you, Reagan, who's the biggest coffee shop in the world?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: Starbucks.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I went to Starbucks yesterday morning and I got an egg sandwich that had cheese on it.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was egg, sausage, and cheese.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And what did they do with the cheese?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: They took the cheese off.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: They took it off.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: The biggest one in the world.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: I bet they washed your cup too.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: They probably would.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: They actually would wash my cup.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: But that's my point, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're getting into a company and you want to do really well in that company, question things.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Ask questions because companies that do things like that turn off customers.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: And when you turn off customers, what happens, Mitch?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: They don't come back.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: No, they go to Starbucks, they go somewhere else.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love going to independent coffee companies sometimes because it's cool.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's fun.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they're the the they taste great.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: The variety is different, and I like it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I want somebody who's gonna serve me.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: I want somebody who's gonna serve a customer and not make shit up.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I literally think people are making it up.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let's get back to the topic of interview questions.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know that's what we came here for.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I have another one that I wanted to share with people.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you mentioned culture.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things I like to ask, and I want, and I do this whenever I kick off a search with a company, tell me how this person is gonna be deemed a success or failure, not after six months, not after a year, but after two years.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: I just said three, after two years.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: How are they gonna be deemed a success or failure?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think people should ask that question because if they're asking it, that means they're looking for feedback from the hiring manager or anybody in the hiring process to tell them what goals they've set.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I talked to a company today, they're at 100 million in three years, they want to be 300 million.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: What does that sound like to you?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Crazy.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: They want to triple in three years.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: First question I asked, what do you think it was?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: How are you gonna do that?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: What is your plan to get there?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't say it's crazy because they have a great plan and they took they shared it with me.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: But if I was interviewing, now they're asking me to do a search.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: So the first thing I ask if I'm gonna do that search is how am I gonna bring in somebody that's gonna think this is realistic and they can be successful?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to ask what the plan is to get there.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: But I need to know how they define success.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you, as an interviewee, need to ask that question.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: And by the way, what happens, Mitch, to your candidacy in their eyes, the company's eyes, when you ask questions like this?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think companies love it.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Most people ask the itty bitty questions that almost have no real material impact.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it doesn't show that they're really looking for the right thing.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think questions like that show I'm someone who plans to come in and meet, if not exceed, expectations, and I want to know what they are.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I know if I take this job, I can do it.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, another thing too that I share a lot with people is I actually learn more about the interviewer by the things they ask me than by their answers to my questions.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because anything that they answer for me could be scripted.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: So tell me, tell me more about that.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know more about that.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so like I actually start out most of my interviews by asking what they want to know first.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I kind of catch them off guard.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about loving people who are quick on their feet.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's my way to assess for that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then hiring recruiters, you have to be communicative, quick on your feet, quick thinking in conversation.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I learned so much about them.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: If their first question is, is it on site?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: What's the pay?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the amount of people who ask me those two questions, even sometimes on LinkedIn, if I'm reaching out to someone before even learning about the job, it could be their dream job, but they're gonna qualify.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's their biggest priorities to me.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's probably not someone I'm as interested in.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Can we just put a red X on that right now?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wearing a red coat, red X.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do that.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think it's okay.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you have, again, if you have criteria that's important to you, like a relationship, right?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Non things you're not gonna budge on, that's okay.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: But save those questions for the end.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Show them why you're the right person, and then start to have that conversation.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, very rarely do those for people ask in those first few minutes of the interview, you know, tell me why, why I should work for you.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me what growth looks like, tell me what success looks like in one year, two years.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Where, if I come in and I'm successful, where does that put me in my career, you know, in three years?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: I like all those questions.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: The one that threw me off, and maybe you can figure out how to rephrase this, tell me why I should work for you.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: How would you phrase that in a question?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I guess I wouldn't say it verbatim like that in the interview, right?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm actually qualifying a company, I would want to know what makes you special and unique?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how do you position yourselves in the market?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how how can how do what do you do to keep your people happy?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think what makes you special and unique is interesting because it's not specific and it gets them to it gets you to show, see from the interviewer what exactly comes to their mind first.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so I have a couple other questions.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Reagan, how are we doing on time?
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: All right, so we got a few more minutes.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna ask a couple of questions here.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: One thing, and I'm I'm gonna ask you this, Mitch, too, because I have a belief about this.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Do you ask companies, let's say it's a private company, do you ask them how big they are?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: How often?
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Most times.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I always do.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny because when I'm meeting a company, I might be meeting them with a managing director or partner from our company.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of times they don't ask those questions.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand why.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I ask all the time, how big are you?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: What's your profit?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Are you making money?
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: You're losing money.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: I met with a CEO of a software company the other day in New York.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I said, How big are you guys?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: He told me what his revenue run rate is.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I go, Are you making money?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, No, I'm losing money right now.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: I said, How much cash do you have on hand?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, I got enough for two years.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: I said, How much are you losing?
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: And he told me, I said, okay, here's your burn rate.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, Yep, that's our burn.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: I said, So is that a hard and fast burn?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, No, I could pull back an RD and it wouldn't affect our product roadmap for probably two years.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: So if I needed to, I could extend our runway at least a year.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, okay, that's good flexibility.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because you never know what the V VC market's gonna be like from one minute to the next.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: But as a candidate going to a company, I wouldn't want to ask that question.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's other questions I want to ask too, like, you know, your backing.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: How much are they, you know, if you're VC backed, are they gonna invest in the next round?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: Have they already committed?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: What other resources do you have?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: What's the flexibility to either become part of a roll-up or be a platform play where you're gonna buy other companies?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Will they invest in you so you've got the capital to do that?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to ask all these questions so I can see where do they want to go?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then the big question is always two years.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: If you hit all your goals, what's your company look like?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a really important question because it tells me their vision.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know their vision.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: So not just about the job I'm joining, but their vision for the company and doesn't align with me.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right, what other interview questions would you?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest one is asking for next steps.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone talks about, hey, I'm someone who grabs a bull by the horn and takes initiative.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's all words.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Doing that actually shows it.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people forget interviews are no different than sales calls, except you're the product.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Almost nobody goes in thinking that I actually need to sell myself.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: What's the hardest product to sell?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yourself.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it really is.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: People are always humble about themselves, right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to come off like a jerk, but you also want to don't be so humble that you don't sell yourself.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people definitely undersell the impact they make uh in an interview and talk about a lot about qualitative things versus actual quantitative impact.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: But to go back to the question, I think if you do an interview right, every interview should end with some iteration of you thanking them for their time, reiterating your interest in the role, and point blank asking what next steps are.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one, it's a great indicator of what the process looks like if you're gonna move forward, how to prepare yourself accordingly.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also it shows them that you're not sitting around waiting.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think too many times these interviews end with, you know, a little bit of uncomfort.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know how you're feeling, you don't know how they're feeling, and then you kind of jump off at the end of the day.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: People remember that last impression.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if nobody's doing it, you're gonna stand out a lot.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: How many people ask you when they interview with you what the next step is?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: I would say, I would say probably less than half.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we're hiring normally salespeople, so I almost expect it.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: With sales, that comes naturally in some way because they're used to doing that in their own sales process.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like accountants normally don't think of that.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: HR folks, right?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about turning on that sales hat and remembering you have to advocate for you.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's a really good lesson here is um if you're looking for a job, even if you have a job, but you're interviewing for something better, or if you're not, if you don't have a job and you're looking for a job, don't forget you're in sales.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: And if salespeople always ask the next step, I don't think they necessarily ask for the order because sometimes it's not a one-call close.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like in our business, it's often not a one-call close, but we always have a clear next step.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: If we don't have a next step and we walk out, if I'm walking out of a meeting with one of our partners or managing directors and they didn't ask for a clear next step, I'm like, you missed the opportunity here.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think the next step, I had a meeting with uh head of executive recruiting at a$40 billion company in Chicago a couple weeks ago.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And as we're having lunch with this person, I said, Hey, I'd like to come out and see your office.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds really unique.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's just oh great.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'll introduce my boss boss, the VP of talent, who oversees all hiring at all levels throughout our company.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I want to do that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Let's put that on the calendar for the next month.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to come back into town and I want to come out and see the operation.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: So whenever you can create a clear next step, let's do it.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Make sure you do it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: I have one other thing, and this doesn't come along with interview questions, but it's something else.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: The above and beyond thing, and I know we're going to do a separate podcast just on things that people can do to go above and beyond.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: I know some people, we we see this a lot, they kind of do the minimum.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine, I just interviewed a salesperson today for one of our companies, our coaching business.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine this, I wonder if they're listening.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine, wouldn't that be funny?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: Imagine if they put together our first 90 days without us ever asking for it.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: How many people have ever done that for you, Mitch?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Not that many.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe one per one out of a hundred.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh another thing is imagine he looked at your LinkedIn, saw the podcast, and listened to it.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, one more thing, too, because I know we only have a few more minutes.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: One thing, and I know you're gonna bite on this because I know this is a concept I actually got from you.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ready.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Late on.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: You gave a perfect example of it when you met with that client who was burning cash, the software business, is ask questions like you actually want to understand the need they're solving.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: No company hires somebody because they just want to distribute payroll, right?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: They do it to solve a challenge.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a gap, maybe it's a new role because there's some constraint happening in the business that they need to hire for.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, understand what that is, treat it like a consulting call.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the best interview feedback we get from clients are when candidates actually start to bring ideas, they start to solve the problem with them.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's almost like a taste test of what it actually would be like if they hired you versus just the question-answer.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it creates a totally different dynamic, and those candidates almost always stand out.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and typically are the ones that get the job.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's interesting because that's the exact case with this company.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's a smaller company, they don't have a ton of employees,$17 million uh ARR run rate for a software company, um, losing a little bit, probably has to increase their ARR based on their margins of only about six or seven million.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: So imagine that you're coming in, you're interviewing for, I don't know, a CTO role or some other role that's not sales, but you ask them, what's your number one thing keeping you up at night if you're interviewing with the CEO?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'll bet you they he'd say, I want to get my sales up to a point that we are living within our means and we're not burning cash.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: If we can do that.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're a CTO, you can say, I'd like to figure out how my role can help.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I see this a lot when I'm hiring a CFO for a company.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: The CEOs that are real operating CEOs, they want a CFO who can be on the right hand and close the books in seven days, and then walk the plants and help them find money.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Help them find margin, help them find inefficiencies that they can make efficient, ways that they can make more money.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: And they CFOs have a unique perspective on that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to just be reporting the news.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, here's how we did last month.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's about here's how we can change next month, right?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I think if people can take the initiative to your point, ask that question, what is the thing keeping you up at night, Mr.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: and Mrs.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: CEO?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: How can my role help you solve that?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: And even if it's a CTO and my job is to oversee product development, maybe I could go on customer sales calls.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe in the interview I can say, you know, every piece of software most companies sell has some level of customization.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: What if I went out with your salespeople and met with good potential customers and convinced them that we can solve their customer customization issues and deliver a solution to them that's gonna work?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Me as a CTO, I'm gonna take personal responsibility for that.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Would that help your sales?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: And would I have a better chance of getting the job because I'm solving a big problem for that CEO?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, all right, Mitch, any closing thoughts?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think uh be strategic with your questions.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be afraid to ask the things that maybe you're afraid to ask.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it might help you avoid the job you've been worried about.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, every question you want to ask, ask.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: This is something I say all the time.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: When somebody asks me a question about the size of our business or any of that, I tell them everything.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: We are an open book company.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: We report our numbers internally every month to all our employees.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I always tell people, guys, these aren't the nuclear codes.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's no big deal.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: So ask the question.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: If you're afraid to ask it, but you want to ask it, ask it.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good one.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Second one I'm gonna leave people with clear next step.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: If I want this job, if I want to work at this company and I'm leaving the interview, ask them for the next steps and think about what you can do without being asked to improve your candidacy.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: That could be your first 90 days, it could be something really well thought out about a direction that you would take in the job were you to have that job.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, Mitch, great ideas.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, thanks for sharing all these things.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you to our listeners.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Reagan.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Reagan, thank you.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, that's it.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Reagan.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: You're welcome.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is a wrap, and we're gonna see you next week.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: Make sure you come back and send us your questions to TwoGuysInTiespod at gmail.com, or you can give us a DM on Instagram.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and this time it really is a wrap.