Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / St. Vincent

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St. Vincent · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Pushkin. These days, Saint Vincent is on a whole new level,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: which is hard to believe, considering if, for being honest,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: she's always been pretty damn in credible. But let's take
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: an account that not only are the reviews of her
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: current tour the World Tour rave reviews, but she's torn
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: behind the first album of hers that she ever produced,
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: all on her own. That's called All Born Screaming and
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: in a case of overachieving. She also just recently released
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: a Spanish language version of the album Totos nasen Gritando,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: which in many ways doesn't serve to replace the English
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: language version, but supplements it brilliantly, providing a renewed listening experience.
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Of all the Saint Vincent projects dating back to her
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: debut album in two thousand and seven, this is the
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: one that feels the most steeped in a singular vision,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: like an offering from an a tour. But as Saint
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Vincent tells you in today's episode, the production process behind
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: this album was far from easy and likely isn't one
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: she'd replicate again, or at least not on the next
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: project that she's already busy writing. We talk a bit
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: about what it was like to tour this album, a
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: tour which continues well into the new year, with some
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: dates featuring Olivia Rodrigo others Nick Cave and we talk
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: about how she developed her high level taste my words,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: not hers, despite growing up in the middle of the
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: country pre internet. This is Broken Record liner notes for
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: the digital age. I'm justin Ritchman. Here's my conversation with
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Saint Vincent from Amazon Music Studio one twenty six and
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: to see the full video version of this episode, visit
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast or click on
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: the link in the episode notes. I just saw the
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Bob Dylan movie. Oh how is it? You know? I
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: had two thoughts while I was watching it, and we
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: wanted it was just great to hear the music. Yeah,
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: I thought the performances own biased performance, that that was
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: particularly incredible. But I thought the framing was a little
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know if in twenty twenty four, I'm so
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: excited by like the folk music acoustic versus electric.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was good.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I was. I was happy to see it, and.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I think that that mythology about like people were so
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: mad that it was you know that that Dylan went electric.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I think that that mythology is similar to like the
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: Stravinsky right of string mythology.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I don't know, can you tell me that?
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: Well, so there was the the Stravinsky right of string mythology,
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: right of spring mythologies. His piece at in that he
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: debuted the writer of spring. The debut in Paris was
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: so so the music was so new that people revolted
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: in the case of the case, which was like, actually, no,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: that was kind of it was kind of a typical
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: reaction because that was just popular music back.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Then, so people typically revolted. They didn't. Yeah, I mean
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: they were exciting.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: People were extra, but they weren't like it wasn't necessarily
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: how the mythology is, they're like ecstatic, yes, but I
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: heard that the reason that people were so mad wasn't
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: that he went electric, was that the sound was so
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: bad and it was like feeding back and it was
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: sounded really bad.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: They hint at that a bit in the movie. Likes
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Pete Secrets, like the sound is there? Who it's Ed
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Norton's Pete Secret. He does a pretty good shot too,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: but he's like this, the sound is muddled, you know
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: what I'm saying. But the kind of the rest of
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: the film makes it kind of feel like this drawn
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: out tension between acoustic and electric, which is fine. I mean,
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: I guess that's the mythology, but it did feel like
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: I feel a little quaint and yeah, but but yeah,
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but but no. But my point was,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: there was so much cigarette smoking that movie.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: I really wanted to smoke, man, like I.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: Would love to. I don't want to die, you know,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I'm scared of death, but I really want to smoke cigarettes.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: And I don't know what to do about that.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I feel you there. I've recently rewatched this. I never smoked,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: but I've recently rewatched the Sopranos, and you know, they're
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: just like drinking brown liquor at like noon. Yeah, and
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: you're really like, yeah, it seems like a good you know,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: you really have Why not.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: If you watch that's like your whole idea for the
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: whole day. You're like, oh my god, I want to
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: be an out.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: That's what I wonder did. I mean, you have to
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: figure not the Sopranos, but the TCM and like the
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Madmens of the world, like they were post war. Those
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: people had been through hell and so they're just like
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: fuck it. But you get like when you see, you know,
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: anybody in the fifties, just like drinking and smoking midday,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: you're like, yeah, I get it.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you went through hell yeah. But then somehow they're
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: all apparently going to live longer than us.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: No, they aren't.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Wasn't that. This isn't just saying like the life expectancy
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: is dropping or something.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, I've you mistake me for a person who's looked
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: for the news since November sixth, Okay, I haven't.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well I'm gonna avoid the news as well. I
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: think that's my You know what, it's nice up here,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: it is. It's the best protest that man only wants attention.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I gave him. I gave him almost a decade
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: of my life. He doesn't get a single another moment.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: That's great, that's great. Well, I want to talk about
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: both the English language version of All Born Screaming in Spanish,
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: but I get I think maybe we should start with
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: the English language versions, as it came out first. So
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: this is the this is the first album you produced
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: completely yourself. You also, I read called the production of
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the album in Abbats across to Bear, and I don't know,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: just want do you care to explain that anymore?
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, the production of the album was a lot
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: of It was a lot of me sitting in a
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: room right by myself because part of part of the
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: the beginning, the genesis of making of the record was
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: like I'm going to figure out new ways to create,
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to figure out new ways to create
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: using machines that I don't know how to use, so
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: like modular synthse and a lot of like random old
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: drum machines and just crusty stuff, right, And I'm going
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to be a better engineer and
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: producer at the same time, learning my studio, routing, patch base,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: thinking about music I don't know, like a like a
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: Rubic's cube a little bit more. So I started with
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: that and I started with complexity. And so the process
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of times was doing these extended like instrumental
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: post industrial and instrum mental jams for hours and hours,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: which was the totally easy.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Fun part kind of like Can style, Kroud Rocky Can.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Style, except like with drum machines, so Kroud Rocky uh industrial,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: like you know, like making blowing up circuits and some
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: distortion and stuff like that, and then coming back through
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: those long ass jams and being like, Okay, this four
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: seconds or this four bar loop is like something I
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: want to build an entire world around. So that was
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: the process for like Sweetest Fruit, that was the process
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: for Broken Man, that was the process for Violent Times.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: That's interest sweetest Fruit and Violent Times. Sweetest Fruit kind
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: of has a different groove than anything else. I feel
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: like I've heard from your songs.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit reggaeton, little reggaetz, little like Nigerian pop.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah it is. Did you like, did you program the
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: the drums that way or did they did it just
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: turn into that eventually?
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Uh. The genesis of that song was the loop that
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: was like do do do do Do Do Do Do
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Do Do Do Do Do Do do doo. That sounds
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: like a you know, a cracked out ferris wheel. So
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: it's like but but ooh, there's something in that that's
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: evocative to me, I'm gonna build a whole song around it.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: So long story short is that I really did things
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: ass backwards. Usually people write songs and then they deconstruct them.
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: I like started with a bunch of lego pieces and
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: then cold songs from them, and that is cool, but
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: it also is I think more time consuming. There's a
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: reason people don't like write songs that way. There's a
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: reason why people said it a piano and feel their
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: feelings over four chords.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: What do you think? What do you think that reason is?
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Because it's way easy You're to like, have a song
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: and then take it apart, then to be like, there's
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: a soul somehow within these pieces, and I need to
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: find the soul and the story with all these disparate
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: pieces at the same time.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: So that was like a maddening That was a maddening
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: proposition for you.
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: It was silly, Yeah, it was. It was the way
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: I did it, and I'm very glad about it, and
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't stop till it was complete. But like I said,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: there's a reason why people go, no no, no, no
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: no no no no no no no no no, my
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: feelings are this and I feel that, and then they
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: can take.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: It apart, right, all right? Is that And that's typically
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: how you've done it to this point too, Yeah, yeah,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: more or less, more or less? Yeah, why did you
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: give yourself to charge this time to do it differently
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: than and to constrain yourself. I mean to say, this
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: is how it's all going to.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Because I feel like if you do things the same
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: way every time, you're going to get the same results.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: And I wanted to get a different kind of result.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: And what I like about machinery like modulars or various
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: kinds of synthesis is that, like, I don't know exactly
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: what's going to happen, and so I'm not relying on
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: muscle memory, I'm not relying on like things that I
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: already know. I'm relying on like instinct in the moment,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: and that felt like something powerful enough to follow that
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: would eventually lead me to a song that would eventually
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: kind of lead me to a full vision. But it
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: was just a more like labor intensive way to do it.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: And you don't know what to expect because it's not
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: an instrument that you've played your whole life and feel
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: comfortable with absolutely.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: And to be fair, like with analog modulars and certain synths,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: there's no even if you set the parameters exactly the
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: same way, like, it's still going to be a little
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: bit different because it's unique circuitry. So you're you're dealing
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: with real electricity, So everything had to start with with
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: like a liveness.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Got it? Yeah, I mean I guess, to speak candidly,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I like all of your albums, but this is my favorite.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: And that was the kind of I was trying to
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: think about why. Just the feel of it. It felt
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: like there was a real spirit in it and a
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: liveness that wasn't necessarily present in everything that you've done.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Not that that I mean some some sometimes I don't.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: I don't like that in these things. I'm not us
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: should call for that, But this one was just it
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: felt very much alive to me, you know, like there,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: it was like it felt like you were. It felt
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: more like a documentary than like a big, big budget production.
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: And I guess is how I felt about it. I
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: don't know if that rings to to you.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Well, it's d I. Why, it's like high level.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: D I Y always you know, all your all your stuff. Well,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: It's it's DIY with a certain level of like expertise
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: be it. First of all, thank you, I'm so glad,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: But also I mean I think I made choices as
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: a producer to keep that alive, you know, whether it's
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: not recording guitars, direct putting a guitar through an amp,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: putting it in a room, and recording the sound of
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: air moving through a speaker, there's something intrinsically more alive.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: You are pushing air, right, whether it's there's no soft
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: sense on this. This is all. If something is played,
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: if an effect is played, it's a manual, it's a
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: manual tape delay, and it's performed. That you're getting a
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: performance of of a drum machine through a piece of
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: tape or a pedal, but it's performed, its tactile. So
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: there's that. And then I think also just the the
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: subject matter and a lot of the songs, it's like,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: don't be cute, don't be clever. Life is short. We're
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: all gonna fucking die. Like, let's let's talk about it.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Let's let's walk through the fire together. Because where all
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: we got?
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Lyrically, was there any thing you were pulling
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: from in particular, either reference material external to you or
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: internal to you?
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: I didn't really pull from anything external lyrically, and I
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: usually do you know, usually, well, it'll be chock full
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: of like references to my favorite writers or poets or whatever.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: This go round, it was pretty it was it was
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: like a process of stripping back, you know, any anytime
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: I had an instinct to like, I don't know, be cute,
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: or like be clever, or or just like no, cut
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: it out, strip it to the bone. What's underneath that,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: what's underneath that? What's underneath that? And same with the
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: performances as well. I mean I sing, oh, I sang
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of these songs a lot of times, and
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: I would liken it. I would kind of liken it
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: to like, I don't know. You hear about directors who
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: do a gazillion takes like David Fincher, Right, he does
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: like hundreds of takes until the actors are just like, oh, yeah,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: take on and thirty exactly exactly right. Isn't a social network,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: it's like whatever that seems to take one hundred and thirty.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: And you're like, but I think if I was producing
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: someone else, that's not anything I would make them do.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: But when it's myself, I go, no, you you were lying?
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Just there sing it again.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: That's interesting because I was going to ask, how do
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: you keep yourself accountable in that way? When you do
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: yourself but in a way you know, it's much easier
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: and yeah, it's east because you can ask more of
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: yourself if you're self critical enough or if you're if
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: you're honest enough and.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Too I mean, you know, it's a fine balance.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: There's there's the self criticism that is not helpful to
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: you and it's not helpful to the work. And then
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: there's the sort of you know, we're somewhere in the
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Dunning Krueger like, you know, we're people who are actually
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: the dumbest think they're the smartest. You know, I'm paraphrasing
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: that and vice versa. So there's you're somewhere in that
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: spectrum always right, too much self criticism stops the art
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: and stops the work, and but not enough and it's
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: not good enough. Yeah, so that's but that's a that's
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: a messy thing to deal with, like self self production.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: That's the hardest part about self production is that is
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: that wading through that which is like real real, and
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: that which is like, oh no, you're just kind of
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: you're you're you're being you know, needlessly self punishing or
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: that's that's that's the.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Rub that was hard to figure out. Yeah, yeah, how
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: did you how did and did that lead to prolonged
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: periods of like punishing, I'm.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: Being too I'm probably being too dramatic.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: It's I don't think so. I mean, it's a lot
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: to do it. I don't know, or maybe but you
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: would know better.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: It's just a you know after you know, because this
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: is my seventh solo record, eighth record, you know, counting
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: the one I did with David Byrne. It's like, you
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: know when it's done, and that's the that's the biggest thing.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: That's the biggest lesson, is like knowing when something is
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: done and knowing even if you you know, roll down
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the road on a song of like diminishing returns, being
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: able to go back to an earlier version and gom,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: this was better. Okay, let's go, let's let's do this
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: and then it's done.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so get just given how unique the process was,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: and and okay, maybe torture's to to too much calling
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: it an albatross. Maybe, okay, maybe it's maybe it's hyperbole.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: But I mean I like, of course, at the end
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: of the day, like I'm a musician, I get to
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: do what I love. Yeah, it's the luckiest thing in
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: the world.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: It's true, it's true. But if it's if it was
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: even on the on the spectrum of whatever hyperbole, if
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: it was even airing towards that way when you got
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: done with it, does the album sit with you even
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: it's new. Does it sit with you a little differently
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: than other albums in your catalog so far, just given
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: the process you went through.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm still really living this record because I'm out
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: on tour doing it, doing the damn thing every night.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: So there is an aspect of like, these songs are
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: these songs are just like I'm gonna use I'm gonna
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: mix metaphors and also do a bad one great, but
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: like you gotta making a record is like making a
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: pair of shoes that you're gonna have to walk in
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: for the next definitely for the next year and a
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: half of your life and if it's good, like the
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: whole rest of your career, so you remember, Like so
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: putting wearing them on tour is like you're wearing them
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: in You're like, okay, they're kind of they kind of
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: give here, they kind of like, but they can carry me.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: I've never used this metaphor. I'm just workshopping it here.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: So really, uh, this is we're getting into dicey territory.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: But but it's like I'm still living in them, so
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: that and that part is good. It's exciting. They are
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: holding up and they're growing even more than every other
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: record I've ever done. I know every inch of this thing,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: like I know every I know every track. I know
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: every and when I say track, I mean like pro
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: tools tracked.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: I know every.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: I know the Maltese, I know the ideas. I know
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: the palimpsyst of ideas that didn't make it, you know
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: what I mean. I try not to, but yeah, I know, Yeah,
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: I know it. I know it so so intimately. But
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I think it's good that I do know it and
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: I know it so intimately. But I also am so
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: psyched to play it every night. So that's a good sign,
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Sounds like it. Would you do it again? Pretty serious something? Yes?
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I absolutely would, but I would do it differently.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: How would you do it differently?
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: I'd write a bunch of songs and then I would take.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Them apart too much to go through again doing it.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: I would write a bunch of songs, which is what
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: I'm currently doing.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Like while you're on the road or now that you've
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you've kind of you paused a bit for the holidays.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I guess yeah. I mean when I'm whenever I'm in
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: my studio, whenever i'm home, I'm writing.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: So we'll be right back with more from Saint Vincent
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: after the break. Here's more from Saint Vincent. And you.
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: You wrote this in your studio here in LA but
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: recorded it in at Electric Lady.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I did a lot of the vocals at Electric Lady,
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: but I recorded the majority of this record at my
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: studio Compound Fracture. I mean I did. I recorded Dave
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: Grohl on drums there.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Did you mike that yourself? No?
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: No, I have an incredible engineer. Shout out to Kean
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Reardon who mixed this record, engineered the all the heavy lifting.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Of this record, you know, to put on yourself to like.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I can put a you know, I can make my
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: way through a through through a vocal mic. But no
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: past that. No, he he engineered the drums on the record.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: I bought a Neve console, like dang, yeah, it was
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: like it was, it was pro. I you know, Josh
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Freeze played there, uh, Mark Giuliana played there, Sela Mazawa
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: I recorded someplace else.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: But like, yeah, it was legit, that's cool.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Legit.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Josh Freese is his drumming on the first track, but
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: thought was really awesome, soul, beautiful. Yeah, that was amazing.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know that I've heard him. I don't know
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: his whole catalog, but I don't know if I've heard
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: him play that way. It was like this anything that
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: was it was.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: It's fun as a producer to invite people to play.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Well one, I mean, it's nice to have like a
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: stacked rolodex of like the craziest rippers, but beyond that,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: it's really it's nice to have people come in and
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: sometimes you're like, I want you to play like your
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: name's on the track, Like I want you to play
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: like it's your you know. And then sometimes you're like,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: I I want to ask this incredible player to do
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: something that they don't normally do, or do something they're
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: not known for. And in that case, on Hell is Near,
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Josh just played the most almost like Buddhist like monastic
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: beat and it's so beautiful. It's to be honest, it's
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: one of my favorite drum performances on the whole record.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: And it's restraint.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it blew me. I was when I looked
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: at whoah Freeze, whoa. I just just never would have
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: occurred to me that that would be his take on.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Something I know but that but he but you know,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: we arrived there. We arrived there together. It's not like,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: you know, Josh is a very sensitive drummer, and he's
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: an interesting drummer to watch because he listened down to
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: the song, doesn't touch a note, doesn't do anything, you know,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: writes his special notes about how many bars and what
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: you know is whatever his you know, secret wing edings is,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: and then he goes in and he plays it perfectly.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: He plays he knows the song. So it's not like
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: his first take was he was he was in the
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: zone of this sort of like of the of the
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: meditative aspect of it. But we yeah, we got there together.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: So when when did the idea to redo the album
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: in Spanish? When did that occur to you?
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: You're asking a very important question, which is why why
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: would you do that?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to ask it that one.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: No, I totally get it. The short answer is that
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: I've played in Mexico a bunch, I've played in South America,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: I've played in Spain a bunch, and I had this
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: moment on stage at bar at Primavera, Barcelona, twenty twenty three.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I'm like looking out at the sea of people, thousands
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: of people, and they're singing, They're singing my songs back
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: to me in perfect English. I'm like, Okay, this is
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: your maybe your second, maybe your third, maybe your fourth third,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Like seriously, and you have you have insane with being
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: in Mexico. So I was in I mean there was
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: one time in Portuguese, but I was in uh. I
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: was in Brazil playing this little club show for like
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: a thousand people, and everybody knew every single word wow,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: And I honestly got choked up. I got choked up,
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: like they people have come to me in my language,
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: why can't I meet them halfway and try to come
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: to them and there. So that was the thought behind
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: the Spanish record, like a little just a little token
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: to like Spanish speaking fans, like hey, thank you, I
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: thank you for coming to me all these years. I
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: speak Spanish, okay, okay in Texas, yeah it's in there,
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: but like but I but I have been really wanting
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: to become actually fluent in Spanish because it's just useful
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: and beautiful and all the things. So this was sort
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: of a way to get me jump started into getting
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: back into getting pretty good at Spanish. And so I
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: asked my best friend who's from Monterey, Mexico and grew
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: up in dalt We grew up in Dallas together, so
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: he's fully bilingual. It's like, Alan, can you help me
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: translate these songs? So that process was really beautiful and
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: fun too, trying to figure out, Okay, this is not
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: an expression in Spanish, so this doesn't make any goddamn sick.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: What are you trying to say? And it got me
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: kind of thinking about the meaning of songs in a
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: totally different way. Yeah, so that's why I did it.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know, But I also it was a heavy lift.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: It was a heavy lift, and not just obviously the translation,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: which is immensely thought provoking and time consuming, but also
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: then trying to make sure that I was pronouncing things well,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: which again my goalpost just like ninety nine left balloons,
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean, Like, if I can I'm
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: not gonna sound like a native speaker, because I'm not,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: But if I can get as good as like ninety
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: nine left.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: Balloons, then like, okay, that's pretty funny.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: That's pretty good. And then also I read it all
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: the vocal production on the record because I'm the only singer.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy. I was like, you said, you already
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: put yourself to one hundred and you know, I don't
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: know that, but a lot of takes on stuff.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is full, full glutton, just just glut punishment.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: Just give me some more.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: Did you see that movie seven? Yeah, it's not as
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: strict as it looks.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: Did I see what maybe my movie seven? Yeah?
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: That scarred me as a child.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of those that one did.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking a David Fincher.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Speaking of Fincher, Yeah, that one really scarred me. And
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: then Zodiac terrified me too a bit later.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: That yeah, I mean, and that's that was a real guy,
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: the real guy. Didn't they just find it?
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is not conclusive. They said that there
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: was Like I watched the thing.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Because I wait, wait, is the Zodi at the Golden
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: State Killer.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: That's different. They got the Golden State Killer. It's from
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: like twenty three meters or something. Yeah, yeah, which is
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: So did.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: You sell your stuff to twenty three?
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: I say so, I do, mean so I did to
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: ancestry Street. I'm debating that where I want them to
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: put it to know that I could have got everything else,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: but I did the Ancestry. Yeah, so I figure. You know,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: it's funny. When I was a kid, my mom is
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: so fucked up. That's what My mom was a crazy paranoid.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: So like when I was a kid, she took me
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: down to the police station to get fingerprinted in case
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I went like missing. But the flip side of that
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: was I was always very cognizant that I get anything
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: wrong growing.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Up, like they already got okay.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: God, So I'm kind of like Novelly. I put myself
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: on the record with Ancestry. I'm like, if I if
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I do any serial killing, which I won't, but if
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I were to, I'm out. I'm on the record now.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: They can just get me so easy, Like you would
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: you would know if you were like you would, you
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: would there would be like a long line of like
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: cat and trails, like you know what I mean, Like
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: you'd know that from early I.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Like to think. So I'd like to think I don't
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: think you just although I.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Guess if you had like a crazy traumatic brain injury,
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: well there's stories is like.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Look at the guy. They just cooke, you know, the
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: CEO guy, and I'm not hot, that's what he's like.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: He's a good looking dude. I was looking at it.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: I was like, I kind of wanted his workout. I
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: know he's jacked jack And everyone's like, wait, who knew?
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: He didn't know? And maybe but then I think, well,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: if they didn't know, maybe he didn't know. So that's
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: always my fears. I guess, always like maybe I don't know.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Wait you maybe you don't know if you're a serial.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: Killer, well you know what people will say like, oh
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: he was a great, like we never would have expected this, right,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: And then so so then I take it one step
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: further and I think, maybe I don't think that I
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: could do that, but maybe I could. Maybe something happens
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: to you at some point in life that I think.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: It's a combo platter, Okay, right, because.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I think you're right, I hope yeah. I think yeah, yeah,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: because based.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: On my armchair expertise of serial killers, like that's a
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: combination of like in in genetics, sociopathy mixed with like
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: usually like horrifying, horrifying childhood.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Right, I didn't have that, So that's good. That's genetics
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: might be working against me, sad man. Uh so this,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's really cool that you did the Spanish
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: language album to your fans. No, no, it's cool And
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: for me personally, I some of my favorite songs are,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: of course in English, but I spend the vast majority
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of my time listening to things that either don't have
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: lyrics or are in languages foreign or in foreign languages
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: majority of my time.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Same, why do you think you do that?
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I guess the easy answer is that words are distress
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: acting and it overlays a meaning that I maybe want
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: to create my own. And it's probably that, but there's
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: also just yeah, it's just like it can really be
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: the voice is an instrument, but it really becomes another
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: instrument if it can just kind of blend into the other.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: You know, you're not attaching meaning to the words implicitly
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: explicitly yeah, or like.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: I've been on a big cocktail twins kick and like
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: those aren't most of the time. Those are specifically unintelligible.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: So it's a rack. You're like, oh, I'm putting it's
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: still so evocative, but I'm putting what I think she's saying.
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I'm singing what I think she's saying yeah, which is
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: really what I want to hear.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: So absolutely I.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: Want to hear yeah.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: But I feel because it makes a background music, because
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: that's that's I feel like it's makes it a pejorative thing.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: It's not that, it's just it's like just allows you
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: to be more free in how you are interpreting what
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: you're hearing. And sometimes it just the way. And I
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: wanted to ask you this is like, you know the
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: way certain words are shaped and vowel. You know, it's
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: just like you approach you have to. It sounds like
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: you know, you have to approach the vocal take differently.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Oh for sure, Yes, yes, for sure, And you have
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: to make sure that things by the time you sing them,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: You're like you've made sure that they sing well. Yeah,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: because you know certain words don't sing well.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Were there particular words on this album that you didn't
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: There's like.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Tim, tim Maria no Tim, the word for reckless mmm.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Tim.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: I'll give you a better example. I kept mispronouncing the
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: word for marigold, which is can you hear my stomach no?
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Going crazy?
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: Really? Did you eat food today?
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: I didn't, which is why someone itself right now.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: But what point, How long can you go because I
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: forgot to do it as.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Long as I need. Really, I can't eat before I talk.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know before I do anything work really because
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: your brain doesn't work, because then my brain doesn't work.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: And then I just feel like if I eat, I'm
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: like a baby. I just want to go to sleep. Yeah, instantly.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: But are you like carbo loading a breakfast or are
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: you like just coffee, just like any any food.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: No water aside from this, yeah, yeah, just any food. Yeah,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: it could be a help. It could a salad and
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: I want to go to sleep.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: It's not I was with a friend to a friend
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: who was just like, you know, you go to a
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: restaurant and you're like, well, I should probably order a salad.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: First of all, you're at a restaurant, you know what
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, Like you should make You should order something
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: that you have no idea how to make that you
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: could not make at home. Otherwise you should just eat
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: at home. Yeah right, I mean I can't. Also, this
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: is but just but like on our deathbed, my friend
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: was like, on my deathbed, no one's going to be
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: like he ate so many salads.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: You know, it's true. But if you're on your death
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: bed at like sixty three, like some more it's one
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: more solid enough salad. I'm sure, what the.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Do you want to live?
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Oh? Man? So okay, that's interesting because there's that guy
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: that's like trying to like live forever, the.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: Tech dude who's like taking his son's blood.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, and that seems ridiculous on multiple levels. One, he
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: looks like he's fucking a bazillion years old and already.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: It also like, okay, you can fucking afford to live forever.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: And then there's live forever. And then there's also like
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: it feels it feels very it feels really self centered
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: on the level too, like do like so I'm at
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: war with myself on this. On one hand, yeah, I
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: don't want to die, and so I want to live forever.
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: On another hand, forever seems like a really long and
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: then on the other hand, it's like I'm not that,
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not so important. So then I'm like, hmm,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: Like you know, a hundred fee is like a good benchmark.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: One hundred is a long life. That's a long, healthy life.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: If I can make it back to the nineties.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Ah, the are we about the same age.
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: I was born in eighty nine, so yeah, me too. Cool. Great,
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: both both in the eighties. Great. So we make it
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: back to you know, make it back to you know,
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: if I can see like the one hundredth anniversary of
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: like friends, Like, oh my god, that's cool.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: You know what I would like to live. I would
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: like to live. I would like to everybody to remember,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: for like one day, what it was like to live
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: without the internet.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Oh man, Yeah it was that.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: It was kind of lit.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: It was awesome.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I was here for it.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: It was awesome. Yeah, okay, that was something I had
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: for you. What. Okay, eighties and nineties. You're in the
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: South Oklahoma, Texas, that was your I grew up here, Yeah,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: relatively connected to culture, you would thin because I'm here
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: in Los Angeles area. But your your MGV, your taste,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: your taste, oh seems heightened like like and I was going,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, we're out the time, but
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: especially around like visual arts, which is something I'm like
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: a complete know nothing about. I'm just you. It's almost
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: as if you grew up in Manhattan.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: To me, thank you, well I did in my formative years.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: My like, I'm I'm a young adult, like trying to
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: figure out what life is that was spent in Manhattan.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, right, so once you got out of call
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: it right? Yeah? But but was it there before? Uh?
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Well no, I okay, I think I think a couple
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: of things. I had an early intervention from my aunt
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: and uncle, who are jazz musicians. So they were like,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: they saw that I loved music. They took me out
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: on the road. And they also when I was thirteen, fourteen, fifteen,
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: something like that, they gave me a box of records.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: They were like, here's Oliver Nelson, Here's here's John Coltrane,
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: Here's Sarah Vaughn. Here's Ela Fitzgerald, Here's Bill Evans, here's
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: you know, they here's Jonny Mitchell. You know, they were
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: like the you need to understand the like the depth
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: and the breadth of music. So I got an early
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: schooling in jazz and deep too.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Oliver Nelson's not like a surface level.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: You know, it was blusing the abstract truth. So you know,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: you're talking modal jazz, but but you need here's mingus.
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: You need to know, you need to know what's up.
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: Here's Monk. Yeah, and so like that's heavy, that shit's heavy,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: and there's no like, it's not a casual. It's not
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: yea casually. You're like no, and you're reading you know, CDs,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: you're reading all the liner notes. You know who played
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: on Oh, Freddy Hubber played on this, you know whatever,
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: that stuff. And then also I think I had a
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: there was like an indie movie theater in town. So
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: me and my best friend Alan we saw every We
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: saw every movie that came to town at the indie
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: movie theater. And so there was this like sense this
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: like very rich culture. That was what I think we
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: saw Gregoraki film. Maybe no, maybe that was later. I've
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: seen so many movies with Alan, it's hard to keep count,
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: but like that was there was this idea one. I mean,
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: as much as I love Texas and I'm very proud
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: to be from Texas and my family's there, I knew
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: that I had to like get out of there. I
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: also had a like a theater teacher who was it
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: will shock you to learn that I was president of
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: the theater club.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And I had a very important like theater teacher who
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: was like read the New York Times every read the
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Sunday Times. Look at the section not the rest of
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: that ship. Read, read the arts section, learn about plays,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: go see, yeah, exactly like go see I go see
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: plays like I was like obsessed with Okay, there's this
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: is Ibsen and this is whatever Tennessee Williams, here's new
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: plays like I So I had I had that that
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: hunger and that interest, and then once I got out
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: of Texas, I was able to like immerse myself in
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: you know, the culture, and you were ready.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: You had a solid Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: If you're reading the then it makes sense pre Internet
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: how you were building that base. If you're reading the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Sunday Times.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: You know the arts that kind of like think about
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: like a sixteen kind of a pudgy sixteen year old
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: with glasses being like, sorry, I can't I'm reading the time.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Your parents must have been pretty psyched.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Hilton says that the no he's Hilton writes to The
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: New Yorker.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: After one last break, we're back with the rest of
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: my conversation with Saint Vincent. Here's the rest of my
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: conversation with Saint Vincent. I think I remember seen or
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: seen and maybe in your masterclass or reading.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Some did you take notes in my master class.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I didn't say that, okay, but Beatle Beatle Juice film
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: was maybe initially in terms of visually like important.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: To you, like your sentence I say that I think,
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: I mean I believe that making things up well, No,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: I mean Beatlejuice like, I mean.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Not far off.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not far off. But yeah, I mean that's like
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: that's a kids first introduction to like brutalism, Like that's set.
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: Those sets are incredible, Those sets are incredible. I met
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: a set designer. He is married to Catherine O'Hara, and
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: they met on that film.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: No way, that's incredible. Did you ask him a bunch
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: of questions?
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Yes? I did, but it was loud and I forgot.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: It was loud and I was drunk and I forgot
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: what he said.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I won't ask you to repeat that. We won't. We
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: won't rehash the conversation.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: But it was cool.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: And so but that gets you to this kind of
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: at least in your feelings. It gets you to a
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: place where that's what you identify with, that that that
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: kind of brutalism may be superior. Like when you when
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: you when you, I'm just trying to because you know,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: like you're the art that goes along with your music, right,
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: it feels very pointed. There's like it's like there's a
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: person like it feels very much like there is a
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: strong idea behind that and maybe it's no.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: No, no, it's very intentional. It's very intentional, like with
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: All Born Screaming. I I worked with my friend Alex
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: de Corte, who is like really heavy duty, like major
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: American modern artist, and we've been friends because he directed
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: a video for one of my songs called New York,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: which was like amaze, Like it was amazing what he did,
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: and he's brilliant. He's still brilliant.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: This was right around the same time of prima Vera
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: Barcelona twenty twenty summer of twenty twenty three. We were
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: both traveling in Spain and he came to visit and
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: we were just catching up and I played him the
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: new album and he was like, I would love to
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: help you with like the visuals on this. I would
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: love to creative direct this if you want me to.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: I was like, you kidding, Like yeah, So we started.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: We went to the Prato, we went to we saw
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: the Bosh's Garden of Earthly Delights, we saw all the
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Goya the pintures Negress, so like the Goya black paintings,
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: which were these deeply I mean, which is black mass
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Saturn devouring his Sun's like heavy, heavy shit, heavy fucking shit. Yeah,
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: and we kind of like we walked into this room,
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: we got to like the air changes and we're looking.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: We're staring, staring in the maddening eyes of Saturn devouring
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: his son. And Alex and I look at each other,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: we're like, yeah, this, this is the energy, Like, this
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: is the energy, black and white, all the colors in
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: a fire. So yeah, so he then it was then
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: it was it's so many conversations. It's it's scouring through
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: art books going oh what what about this font? Oh Goldstein,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: Oh well this was inspired by uh you know, it's
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: like it's it's the point of the references isn't to
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: rip something off. It's not to be like here's just
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: a Pinterest board. Yeah, it's it's when you're referencing someone's work.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: Sophie Rickett, you know, for the inner sleeve of the
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Allboard Screaming album is like me pissing on a sidewalk,
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: and that's like full on homage to this artist. Sophie Rickett,
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: who did a book called Pissing Women. It's women like
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: pissing on the street, you know, and it's but they're
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: all like they're in like Chanelle suits, like pulling, you know,
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: pissing on the street and like and Alex and I
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: did it, but we did it a little bit more
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: tuned town like who framed Roger Rabbit is also never
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: far from my interesting mind. You know, it kind of
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: gives more like Calvin pissing on the back of like
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: a Ford Ranger because like, anatomically it's wrong. Anatomically is wrong,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Like there's no way that that the female body can
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: do like this, but it uh but yeah, you know,
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: so all that stuff is like it's so it's so
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: thoughtful and not just to be like high on your
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: own supply, because it's so important. It's so important to
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: continue to tell the story with the visual side of
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: things and not just the now that the music's done, great,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: that's that's just now you have a template.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: To to go. Really, do you ever get to the
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: point where you've worked the music, so you've worked so
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: hard on the music that you just kind of like,
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: you know, becomes not but it becomes no an no,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: mm hmm no.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: Now then it's like, oh, think the music's done. Thank god,
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: I get to think about something else. I've built the infrastructure.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: The music will tell us what to do. We just
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: but we need to like find we need to find
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: it visually.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I want it one one day, Maybe you can
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: do a second master classes visual art. It would be
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: I would, I would, I would, I would take it,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I would take.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: I dabble.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: I'm sure no you do. I mean because really, I mean,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: I know a lot of people their art work is intentional.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: But when you kind of pair the intention with with
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: with the a high level of taste, you know, it's
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: like it makes for something really cool, you know, I think,
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: is what what happens here? You know?
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Well, again, it's not about it makes the Internet makes
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: it very easy for us to reference things, right, Like
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: we can just like I pull this and I pull this,
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: and I pull this and I pull this, and that's
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: really cool. That's a very that's a cool that's a
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: good thing about about being as as postmodern as we are.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: But and this is where I go. AI is not
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: here yet in music Visually it's pretty farl But but
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: to put all of those things together, to put a
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: whole thing together and then make it something that feels
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: actually like an artist's and I do feel that there's.
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Well do you think it will never get there? No?
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: No, I don't. I don't think it'll never get there.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: And this is like cut to me, you know, in
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: one year, like with an aib No, I just like
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: I'm now I'm picturing like some version of seven, but
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: I'm like being cruelly dominated by AI. Whatever we could,
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: we could make that image happen really quickly.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one last thing I do want to talk. I
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: want to ask. I also read the the bit about
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: Mike McCreadie from Pearl Jam his strat cast yeah, which
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: was fascinating. I didn't like, you'd never played a stratocaster.
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I had played a PV Raptor, which was a
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: PV raptor. It's a pv raptor. It was a TV
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: strat shape. Okay, but you know, uh, for for beginners. Okay.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: So Mike McCready, who's a friend and a lovely human being,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: gave me one of his signature strats and it like,
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: I've never played a strap before, not because I don't
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: like strats strats are cool. Yeah, I've never played a
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: strap because every time I pick up a strat I
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: played Jimmy Hendrix poorly. Like a strat gives it has
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: so much history. Yeah, that like, I don't know how
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: to approach a strat, but Mike gave me one and
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: it was great, and I was like, now I see,
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: like I get why people love strats, and so I
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: did end up playing playing it on on Auburn Screaming.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: I think I played it on the end of Broken Man.
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: That's a strat, and I'm almost like, the strat's so
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: like pluck, you know, it's got that attack, plucky kind
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: of attack that I was almost like picking from underneath
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: the string to get even more Like Scott, that's stratt
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: has a spank. I'll just say it. I'll use the
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: word A strat has a spank too.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: It has spank to it. So I was like, I
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: don't know, it doesn't I don't hear spank on that album.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: But it's that that was a head. That's a heavy riff.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: It's a heavy riff. Strat got you there.
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: I'm grateful, but I'm so here for it. It's a
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: loaded gun, you know. But but no, I I it
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: was useful and a beautiful thing to I'm discover for
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: myself finally.
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's great. I'm so happy. What that thing though?
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: Is true about like sometimes like a guitar, not like
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: some some guitars, the shape, just knowing that they're a
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: particular kind of guitar, all about it. Whatever make you
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: want to make You sometimes want to play a particular way,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: and I don't know what that is, Like pick.
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: Up an SG what's the first thing you play.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Back and black exactly? But it's like you don't have to,
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: but you put it.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: You must, but you must.
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: It's disappointing in a way.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: It's that That is why I was like, when I
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: make a signature series guitar, it's going to have a
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: completely different shape. Like I take an existing shape and
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: modit in an interesting way, but I like make a
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: new shape. Then maybe it will people create a new
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: language on it, and it won't have the baggage. Yeah
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: of the not baggage, you know, no, but it won't
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: have this the same history that we kind of all
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: go go feel we must you know, pay homage.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: To just so intentional with your words. Okay, sits Yeah,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I live.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: I live on the internet. You have to be a
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: fucking intentional cunts.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Thank you for talking to me. Thank you. This is
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: really fun, really fun talking to you.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah you too.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Saint Vincent for stopping by Amazon Music Studio
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: one twenty six to talk about her latest album, All
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Born Screaming and its Spanish language companion Totos Naci found.
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: You can hear some of our favorite Saint Vincent songs,
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: including cuts from her new albums, on a playlist in
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: our episode description, and be sure to follow us on
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: Instagram at the Broken Record Pile. You can follow us
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced by
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: Lea Rose with marketing help from Eric Sandler and Jordan Millin.
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: Our engineer is Ben Tolliney. Broken Record is a production
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is
• 52:21
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• 52:24
  Speaker 1: listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show,
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: podcast app. Our theme music's by Anny Beats I'm justin Richmond,