Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 199. Allie Breazeale and Her Time At Commonwealth Bible College

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199. Allie Breazeale and Her Time At Commonwealth Bible College · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:00
Welcome back to the Four Freedom Podcast family.
0:03
We are glad to have you here today with us.
0:06
We're excited about the episode that we have today for you.
0:09
It's going to be an awesome one. I know you're going to enjoy it
0:12
and I know that it's going to be a great time.
0:14
Before we get started, Brett is not able to be on the intro
0:18
party episode. He's part of the actual episode.
0:20
He got sick at the time of the recording of our intro banter
0:24
and we are be praying for him. He's just not feeling well right
0:28
now. But today we are two weeks away
0:31
from Christmas. If you haven't done your
0:33
Christmas shopping, now would be the time to start heading out
0:36
and doing some shopping. We have some great things going
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on in our four Freedom Cigar Company, 1689 cigars, back slash
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4 Freedom Cigars, We've got our experience box.
0:48
Lots of those have been sold. We've only got a few left of
0:51
those comes with each one of our cigar is a bag of coffee and a
0:55
bar of soap. That coffee goes to support
0:59
missions in Nicaragua, church planters down there, and we are
1:03
excited about that. We're excited about what the
1:05
Lord is doing down there. Me and Brett have an opportunity
1:08
to lead a group down in just a couple of months.
1:11
We'll be down there in July and we'll have a group down there to
1:15
do a pastors conference. Also some distribution stuff.
1:19
So it's going to be a great time and it's a great way for you to
1:21
partner with us in that and supporting that ministry down
1:24
there at United Christian Missions.
1:28
Got a our Israel trip just right around the corner.
1:31
I think we've got like a couple of days left to sign up.
1:34
If you haven't signed up and you want to go January 30th through
1:37
February 7th, me and Brett are excited about that.
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It's going to be a great time and so hopefully you will join
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us and be praying for us as we go.
1:45
We've got a full group that's going and then we've got as well
1:50
the convention coming up in June and just a great time there if
1:54
you'll be in Orlando or the area, and we know you'll enjoy
1:58
that as we get together as well. We do want to just transition to
2:03
the episode today. We've got Ali.
2:06
Brett's going to talk a little bit about her and how they know
2:09
each other. But what a great interview that
2:11
we had today, and I'm looking forward to what we have to share
2:16
over the next couple of weeks. We've got just a couple weeks
2:19
left in the year and then we'll take a break in January, but
2:23
we're going to share one of our top performed episodes on
2:27
Christmas Day. And so hopefully you will tune
2:30
that. Hey, if you haven't had a
2:31
chance, I've been putting out some AI music on the iTunes and
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Spotify. I've got several different
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albums out, about 30 something songs right now.
2:42
Just came out with a new Conspiracy album.
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Have really enjoyed that. And I've got about 13 or 14 more
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that should come out by the end of the year.
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And so just, hey, it's been fun. It's been a great time just to
2:54
produce those and work with AI generated stuff.
2:59
And so hopefully you'll go over and check that out.
3:00
You can just Google my name or search my name in iTunes and
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Spotify and you'll see those all the information there.
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It's also on our Facebook page as well.
3:12
And last but not least, if you haven't had a chance to purchase
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my book, our newest book From Brokenness to Freedom, please go
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and check that out. I know some of several of you
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have reached out for one of those free copies do only have
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just a couple of those left. And so if you'd like to have a
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copy of that for free, all schedules reach out to me and I
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can get one in the mail once they get in.
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I've had to order a special order of that.
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Once they get in, I'll be able to drop that in the mail for
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you. And so if you want one of those,
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please reach out to Direct Messenger.
3:41
We are so thankful for each and everyone of you listening.
3:44
This last year has been a great year for us, and thank you for
3:49
sharing this with your friends and family and those that are in
3:52
need of help through the gospel. And so without further ado,
3:56
we're going to jump right into our episode today.
3:58
Thank you for listening and I hope you didn't have a wonderful
4:01
day. For freedom, you set me free.
4:04
Not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee Grace, lift the
4:08
flame. Now I'm puffing.
4:09
Peace, cigars and victory. Justified.
4:12
Released. Welcome to the For Freedom
4:15
podcast. This podcast exists to bring the
4:18
freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with
4:22
everyday issues. I ain't.
4:24
Saved by dress codes, not by what I eat.
4:26
I'm covered in the righteousness, washed from head
4:28
to feet. No tally of tradition.
4:30
No man made code. Blood bought my freedom.
4:33
Now I ride that road. They clutch pearls when they see
4:35
smoke rings rise, But my prey still ascends Past the legalist
4:39
cries. Christ plus nothing.
4:41
That's the real math. So miss me with your fence laws
4:44
and your extra path. He sat with sinners, I'm sitting
4:47
with Saints, Sipping grace from the bottle.
4:49
No room for face. I like one for liberty.
4:52
Toast to the king. Every ash of sermon.
4:54
Death has lost its sting for freedom.
4:57
He set me free. Not for change, not for guilt,
5:00
not for Pharisee. Grace slit the flame.
5:03
Now I'm puffing peace, cigars and victory justified release
5:07
for freedom. He set me free, not for change,
5:10
not for guilt, not for Pharisee grace.
5:12
Let the flame now. Puffing peace, cigars and
5:15
victory justified released. Let grace begin for freedom.
5:21
He set me free, not for change, not for guilt, not for Pharisee
5:24
Grace. Let the flame now.
5:26
Here are your hosts, Victor James, Seyfried and Brett
5:29
Martin. Well, I am proud to introduce
5:33
Ali Brazil. Who I know because we grew in to
5:38
church together and kind of what was on the bus in the bus
5:43
ministry together at all. Let me tell you something about
5:45
Allie right now. You know, we we live like our
5:49
cities are like right beside each other.
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So I'm in Carthage and she's over here in Philadelphia.
5:54
And when I like I'm having vacation Bible school.
5:59
So I've been out of the bus ministry for a while.
6:01
So it's like, man, I want to sing this song, but I can't
6:04
remember the words to it. So I'll text Ally and I'll be
6:08
like, Ally, what are the words to this song?
6:11
And a few minutes later she'll like, she'll text me the whole
6:13
song and I'm like, yes, I remember.
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And then I'll be like, and then I'll text back, what were the
6:18
hand motions again? And then she'll tell me the hand
6:21
motions because like she was like bus ministry extraordinary.
6:27
She was good with those kids. That that's what I remember
6:30
about you, Ally, just but the how good you were with that.
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And then of course, you were my helper in children's church, in
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the church that we grew up in. And so when I was assistant
6:44
pastor there, you were helping me in children's church.
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And so like I said, I know your parents and your whole family.
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And so no, you know, so I'm just I how you doing?
6:55
I'm I'm glad to see you. I'm glad you're on the podcast.
6:58
How you doing today? Yeah, I'm doing great.
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I it's an honor to be on today. Really looking forward to
7:04
talking to you guys about my experience with the
7:06
Commonwealth. Yeah.
7:09
Like he said, me and Brett grew up together.
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I said grew up together. He's older than me, obviously.
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But I did do a lot of hands on church ministry with Brett.
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Extraordinary guy. He taught me a lot of the things
7:22
that I know about, you know, children's ministry and really
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feel like, you know, his influence has really helped me
7:31
in a lot of different areas through life.
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But yeah, I mean, not only do, you know, we went to church
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together and worked all the ministry together, we actually
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lived like 2 miles from each other.
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I could walk to his house and babysit his kids when I was
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growing up, so. In fact, in fact, your mother
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babysat me. Yes.
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When I was a kid, and that's something that we don't need to
7:53
need to forget is your mom and she had this story about me
7:56
writing on the walls or something.
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See, she would tell everybody about how I drew on her walls
8:02
with crayons and stuff and I'm. Very sure her dad cut my dad's
8:05
hair for a while too. Like there's a lot of
8:07
connections. For sure.
8:08
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
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So, well, I'll tell you what, I'll go ahead and kick us off.
8:15
Tell us a little bit about your background.
8:18
Tell us about yourself, where you grew up at, and then from
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that go into what drew you to Commonwealth.
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OK, I grew up the same church as Brett at Open Door in Summit,
8:29
Ms. under the leadership of the time.
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It was Dennis Walker. Whenever I went to Commonwealth,
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grew up doing bus ministry, children's ministry, second in
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the choir. I played piano in church.
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Pretty much it's, you know, something need to be done.
8:44
I did it. I think I started like in the IP
8:48
church when I was probably 5 or 6, and that was pretty much all
8:51
I've I've ever known. Went to the church school there,
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graduated from the church school.
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Then I don't know if y'all Brett does.
9:00
I don't know if you know much about Smite Camp.
9:04
Was Brother Jerry. Yeah, I did that as a teenager.
9:09
Ended up on the Blitz team for three summers and my last summer
9:14
there, I was graduating high school and we had a Commonwealth
9:18
group come sing at Smite Camp and they invited us on the Blitz
9:23
team to come up to Kentucky and do their, you know, backyard,
9:28
you know, Bible clubs and things like that.
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And at the time I was dead set. I was going to West Coast dead
9:33
set. You could not change my mind.
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That's where I was going. Then we went there, we went to
9:40
Commonwealth, we stayed the week, we stayed in the dorms, we
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did the backyard Bible clubs, We met a lot of their bus ministry
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kids. And like Brett said, I was die
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hard bus ministry, loved the bus ministry.
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And so when I saw how big their bus ministry was and how
9:56
important it was to their church, I just, I fell in love
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with it. And so then I ended up worrying
10:06
about it and changed my mind and ended up going to Commonwealth.
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You know, James, before you going to the next thing I want
10:15
to know real quick, you brought up Smite.
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You know, I was at the State Fair this past October at the
10:20
Baptist tent. We were giving away a side by
10:23
side giving the gospel and right behind us was Uncle Jerry, this
10:29
trailer. So he's still out there.
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So. He's still out there showing
10:33
that video, you know, And so he's still doing his thing,
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James. For those that are not familiar
10:40
with SMITE, it means Summer Missionary Institute of Training
10:44
and Evangelism. Is where fun?
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What is it where fun goes to die?
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Where? Fun goes to die.
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I always heard about Smite camp, never went.
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I heard about Dan Carr and I saw some videos and that was one of
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those things I was like, you know, I never want to go there,
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never want to go do that. The idea of smite, I mean, you
11:05
just think like you're just going to get beat up side of the
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head or something not. Yet that's that's you got it.
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You got beat up side of the head all the time.
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So before we get started, even in our our conversation with
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Commonwealth for I'm going to deviate a little bit.
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What was your impression of the IFB, the Independent Fundamental
11:24
balance movement, growing up in it?
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Of course, going to Bible college, there in it were you
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fully balled in? Were you hook, line and sinker
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Were. You, yeah.
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Like completely balled into everything.
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Yeah, at the time, yes, absolutely it was.
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I'm right, everybody else is wrong.
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We're the only people going to heaven.
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Everybody else has got it wrong and they're all going to hell.
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And I can't be friends with these people if they're not in
11:51
the ISB. And yeah, it was.
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You're still that way, correct? Yeah, yeah.
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Oh yeah, totally. Yeah.
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Haven't changed from that position.
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I love it. So your time at Commonwealth,
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what was the day-to-day experience?
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I'm be honest, I don't know much about Commonwealth.
12:09
I knew some people that went there very vaguely, some
12:13
different interactions. I know about West Coast, I've
12:15
been involved, their crown, Golden State, my time at
12:21
Champion, I went to Eric Pacey's college.
12:24
So, so sort of tell us the day-to-day environment, the
12:27
culture there, what was expected, the overall atmosphere
12:30
from from a student's perspective when you got there.
12:34
So when I got there, oh, I did go to college days.
12:36
And, you know, they sell things on college days.
12:38
They make it look, you know, amazing.
12:41
But when I got there, it's a whole different ball game than
12:47
those few days I spent at college days.
12:50
Like in the dorms, The dorms. I don't know if you've ever seen
12:54
pictures of the dorms or heard about the dorms.
12:57
It's an old hotel room or old hotel that they've turned into
13:00
dorms. So think about the smallest
13:04
hotel room you've ever stayed at in your entire life.
13:05
Like a Super 8 small hotel room with four girls, 2 sets of bunk
13:10
beds, one vanity, one closet. It was it was tiny, very tight
13:15
quarters. They would do room checks every
13:19
Thursday, and we had white glove once a month.
13:23
But every Thursday they would come do room checks.
13:25
They could go through everything.
13:26
They could go under your bed. They could look in all of your
13:28
drawers. They could look in your closet.
13:31
They could, you know, search everything.
13:35
The girls were not even allowed to sleep like in loose pajama
13:38
pants. We had to sleep in dresses.
13:40
We had to sleep in skirts like you.
13:42
You couldn't have any type of anything that resembled pants in
13:46
the dorm at all. Then to go off campus, like you
13:51
would have to have a campus pass, but you couldn't get it
13:54
last minute. You had to do it at least 24
13:56
hours. So if something came up and you
13:58
needed like something from the store, like you're just out of
14:00
luck. You had to find somebody that
14:01
was already going and get them to get what you needed.
14:03
There was no unless it was like an emergency, you needed to go
14:06
to the hospital and it had to be approved by a staff member.
14:09
It was these little pieces of paper that you had to go to the
14:12
office and get and you got to write like your name, where you
14:16
were going, who was going with you, whose vehicle you were
14:18
taking, what time you were leaving, what time you were
14:20
going to be back. You had to sign out when you
14:22
left, sign back in when you get back, and it had to be approved
14:26
by a staff member. So you had to make sure your
14:28
pass was approved before you could even, you know, think
14:31
about leaving the campus for Chapel.
14:35
We had Chapel. I want to say we had Chapel
14:37
every day. I'm pretty sure we had Chapel
14:38
every day. They would pass around a sign in
14:41
sheet and you had to sign in for Chapel every day.
14:46
I'm trying to think, what else? Oh, so now, like looking back at
14:50
it, at it now, it's kind of weird.
14:52
Like in the evenings. So like you have like AU shape
14:57
with the dorms and then right in the middle there's like a big
15:01
building they build. It's like where the Chapel is
15:03
and a lot of the school rooms in the library and things are,
15:06
well, couples in the evenings would stand, of course, 6 inches
15:10
apart and walk circles around that middle building and just
15:15
talk for hours, literal hours. They would just walk and talk
15:21
and like 2 by twos. It was, it was crazy.
15:24
Looking back at it now, it's so weird.
15:25
But yeah, we had like a small game room that had like a ping
15:33
pong table. Obviously not a pool table
15:35
because that's like worldly, but we had a ping pong table and we
15:40
had like some little board games you could play.
15:41
There was like a big sitting area, but you had to be
15:45
outnumbered. If 2 girls were sitting at a
15:47
table, there could only be one boy.
15:49
Or if two boys was no wait, was it backwards?
15:52
Yeah, yeah, for everyone, boy, there had to be 2 girls.
15:57
I'll tell you, sleeping in skirts is crazy work because
16:02
that tiles, the standard wasn't even that high, but you know,
16:07
you could have pajama. The girls can have pajama
16:09
bottoms in their room, but sleeping in a skirt is is crazy
16:13
work. And listen, I know this.
16:15
Let me ask you this before we move on, especially at house,
16:19
Anderson. It for me, All right, For the
16:24
for the for the guys, it was like they were at summer camp,
16:27
like they weren't really grown adults.
16:30
But for the girls, it seems like to me they were treated like
16:33
prisoners on furlough. Is is that the kind of?
16:37
Is that what the kind of the atmosphere was for y'all there?
16:41
Yeah, for sure the guys were. Always on lockdown.
16:45
Yeah, the guys were definitely like, they were more lenient
16:47
with the guys. Like they had a later curfew
16:49
than the girls did. They would have like, men's
16:53
security guards, like students could be the security guard.
16:56
And like, they would stay up till like 2:00 in the morning
16:59
and just like walking around the campus, the guys got to be the
17:04
one to check the mailbox. Oh, I forgot about the
17:05
mailboxes. We had like UPS, like the post
17:10
office mailboxes, everybody was assigned 1 and at night you had
17:15
to put your phone in the mailbox.
17:18
And then whoever the security guard on duty that day was would
17:22
go in and check everybody's mailbox to make sure they're the
17:25
phones were in there. And they would could like write
17:27
people up if their phone wasn't in there by a certain time or
17:30
whatever. That is amazing.
17:33
That is, yeah, I've never heard of that either.
17:37
That was method. They went overkill on a lot of
17:40
things. I have a question before we even
17:44
ask the next question because that's how my mind works as I'm
17:48
thinking through this. And you went to Commonwealth and
17:50
you're there under Jeff, you gate.
17:52
How was did you go to another college before or after?
17:56
After when I left Commonwealth I did get a tri-state for a
18:01
semester. OK.
18:03
And have you went anywhere else or not?
18:07
OK? What do you feel like their
18:09
quality of education was? Do you feel it was on par?
18:13
Do you feel like it was just like Bible classes?
18:16
I feel walking away from getting that education for you were
18:20
there from 13 to 16 or 14 to 16 for a year and a half, two
18:23
years. Yeah, it was.
18:29
I, I feel like it was subpar, if I had to be honest.
18:32
It just, I mean, like your typical class, like your English
18:35
class was just like a regular English class, but like then you
18:39
had the Bible classes that were more of like Christian womanhood
18:44
and like things like that, where they taught you how they wanted
18:49
you to be and how like they felt like a woman should present
18:52
themselves. Which obviously I wasn't in the
18:54
church leadership class because that was only for guys.
18:57
But like, I feel like most of the like the Bible classes were
19:02
focused more towards what they wanted you to be and how they
19:07
thought you should be as a Christian or as a person in, you
19:11
know, in leadership. So yeah.
19:15
And that answered your question, no?
19:17
That's good. That's, that's sort of what I
19:18
was asking. We, we just did an interview
19:19
last week with the Bryce and he talked about the Bible meals and
19:25
how they're just, they're not really putting out quality
19:28
education. Your your take on that next
19:33
idea. As we walked through this while
19:35
you were there under Commonwealth, I'm sure you had
19:37
some interaction with Jeff Fugate could have been from a
19:40
leadership perspective or even in church or classes, or maybe
19:46
you have a time where you actually talk to them
19:48
one-on-one. I have no idea.
19:50
And so how was that and how did it shape the way people behaved
19:55
when they were around him? Did people speak up about
19:59
certain things or did he demand silence?
20:02
What was the atmosphere around the man of God at the college?
20:08
You could always tell a difference in the atmosphere on
20:11
a Chapel day when you knew Pastor Fugate was coming to
20:14
preach. Everybody was on 10, everybody
20:17
was pumped, everybody was excited when he entered the
20:20
room. They would always everyday for
20:22
Chapel, they have like a side door that like LED straight to
20:26
the platform. So we would all be sitting, you
20:28
know, music will be playing. And when that door opened and
20:31
like people were walking up onto the platform, it was usually Doc
20:37
Brother White House and two or three other men usually would
20:43
come up on the platform and everybody would always clap.
20:46
You know, everybody would stay and clap whatever.
20:47
But on days that Pasha Fugate were there, it, I mean,
20:51
everybody would just holler. People would be standing on the
20:53
pews like they worshipped that man.
20:57
I'm sure they still do. And like talking to him
21:01
one-on-one. He really wasn't, you know, a
21:03
great guy to just conversate with.
21:06
I was friends with his daughter Leah.
21:08
She was, I think, a junior in high school whenever I was
21:13
there. She's only a couple years
21:14
younger than me, so I do have a little bit more of like a
21:18
one-on-one relationship with her and with Misses Fugate than I
21:22
did with Pastor Fugate. But I do feel like people, like
21:27
I said, they worship the ground he walked on.
21:28
They didn't want to say anything or do anything that might upset
21:34
him or, you know, that he might not approve of or whatever.
21:39
And you know, like when he walked into a room, everybody
21:42
was just like at attention, like on their PS and QS just almost
21:50
not really that they fear him, I don't think, but just that they,
21:56
I just feel like they worshipped him.
21:58
And if there's anything that we know, it's in the IFB, it's man
22:03
worship and putting a guy up on a pedestal where he can do no
22:08
wrong, giving him more authority than he should have as a pastor.
22:13
That's kind of a, a running theme.
22:16
I'm going to ask about the community there.
22:19
I want to like the teachers and the students.
22:22
Was was it, was it a hypercritical atmosphere?
22:26
Did you feel safe being honest there or did you have to keep
22:30
your thoughts to yourself and kind of toe the line a little
22:33
bit? Tell me about just like the
22:36
community there with the teachers and the other students.
22:40
So I feel like some, some staff members were easier to talk to
22:46
than others. I'm, I'm sure that's the case
22:48
anywhere you go. But for me, the Fishers and the
22:54
White Houses were like my safe place.
22:57
I felt like if I was going through something or if I needed
23:00
to talk about something or something was bothering me or
23:02
something like that, I could talk to them and not feel like
23:05
they were going to come back and, you know, say, well, oh,
23:09
you feel this way because you're not right with God or something
23:11
like that, you know? But our dorm supervisor for the
23:16
women, she was very critical. She would call you out for all
23:21
sorts of things. She would write you up for your
23:27
makeup not being fixed the way she likes it or your hair not
23:30
being brushed the way she likes it.
23:32
What was her Miss Richard? I think she came from house.
23:37
She did. Yeah, OK.
23:38
So, yeah, she was my dorm supervisor.
23:42
So she was, she was tough and she lived on campus.
23:46
She was a single woman. She lived on campus in one of
23:48
the rooms when I first got there, we had the Bobbitts and
23:52
they were super nice. They were, you know, very
23:54
friendly, very open. Doc was scary.
23:59
Doctor Dorkinson is scary. I think he also came from house.
24:04
So he was a very tough, tough person to talk to.
24:07
I had a meeting with him one time actually, because I drive
24:10
the college car. And basically what that was is
24:14
people that didn't have a car would pay the college car to
24:17
take them to and from work. And so I drove and drove people
24:21
to and from work and I went to the gas station and got a drink
24:24
one day and I was handed the wrong receipt and I didn't look
24:27
at it. I just laid the receipt in the
24:29
car and went about my day. Well, the person that drove the
24:33
next day found the receipt and whoever was in front of me at
24:35
the store bought lottery tickets and they turned to the receipt
24:38
in thinking that it was me. And so I had a meeting with Doc
24:43
and it was a whole big thing. Like he just jumped down my
24:46
throat and like never even gave me an explanation, like a chance
24:50
to explain myself or anything like that.
24:52
Like I got written up, got the merits, you know, all that
24:54
thing, all that stuff. But there was just no point in,
24:58
you know, trying to even argue because, you know, he, what's
25:03
that? We had a guy come on named James
25:06
Spurgeon. He was at Longview Baptist
25:08
Temple and I grew up there. He's got a book out, the
25:12
Longview Baptist Crucible. He's got a podcast now after he
25:16
came on with us and one of the things he talks about repeatedly
25:19
in his book was how they would use other students to
25:25
incentivize the turning in or ratting out of other people to
25:31
build seniority almost. I've been watching and and doing
25:37
some research on Jim Jones and the People's Temple.
25:41
And we're probably going to do a in depth four or five part
25:45
series on that here soon. And that was one of the things
25:48
that when they moved to the People's temple to Guyana S
25:52
South America was Jim Jones use that manipulation tactic of if
25:57
you tell on people, you'll get rewarded.
26:01
And how people was constantly worried about what they would
26:04
say or how they would act because of this constant never
26:08
knowing what's going to be said or told to be used against me.
26:12
And I think someone would would pick up a receipt and
26:15
automatically go and not just like, hey, Ali, did you buy
26:18
these or, or what is that? Like, why wouldn't they come to
26:20
you first in that situation versus just going straight to
26:25
the administration? It blows my mind.
26:26
Right. It, it was definitely one of
26:28
those cases where, oh, if I turn this in, it'll get me brownie
26:31
points, you know, and the next time I get in trouble, maybe it
26:35
won't be that bad because, you know, I, I, I turned her in.
26:38
So yeah. So how did the teaching
26:41
preaching that was there maybe describe that a little bit.
26:44
What was Fugate's preaching style?
26:46
What was he like? And then how did that ultimately
26:50
impact your view of God and the and the gospel in in your life?
26:56
His preaching style, I would say it reminded me a lot like home.
27:01
My pastor growing up. He he preached hard, but he he
27:05
wasn't one of those screaming holler all the time type
27:07
preachers. And I feel like brother Fugate
27:09
was very similar to that. You know, he, he preached his
27:13
message and he preached what he had, you know, he said what he
27:15
had to say, but he wasn't one of those screaming your face, you
27:20
know, jump down your throat tight preachers.
27:26
But we did have a lot of guest speakers.
27:27
We had Hamblin come in several times.
27:34
If I sat here and thought I could probably name you several
27:36
that came in and spoke and they weren't that type.
27:41
But I feel like growing up in the IFB and going to
27:43
Commonwealth and hearing creation like that, especially
27:45
at Commonwealth, it gave me more of a fear of God than a
27:48
reverence for him, if that makes any sense.
27:53
It made me scared, I guess to mess up.
27:57
I mean, you know, scared that if I don't go soul winning for
28:02
three hours, if I only go 2 1/2, then I'm not going to be right
28:05
with God. You know, like things like that
28:08
give me more of a fear than, you know, than anything.
28:15
I feel like it really made me question my salvation a lot.
28:21
I struggled that a lot about in Bible college because I felt
28:25
like I wasn't living up to the expectations that all these men
28:30
were preaching. And it was always, well, if
28:34
you're right with God, you'll live this way.
28:35
If you're right with God, you'll do this.
28:37
If you're saved, you'll do this. If you're saved, you'll act like
28:39
this. And there were just parts of me
28:42
that I felt like we're not up to their standard.
28:44
And so therefore I felt like, well, maybe I'm not, am I really
28:46
saved? Like if I'm not doing all these
28:48
things that they're saying, like, am I really, you know, was
28:51
it real? Is it real?
28:55
Well, I tell you what, looking back over your time there, what
29:01
does anything come to mind is like manipulation, controlling,
29:06
harmful? Any cover ups come to mind, any
29:10
abusive situations? Thinking about that, if you can
29:15
remember over your time there. I don't, I don't know if this
29:22
fits into the category, but I feel like they use the college
29:27
students to run a lot of their ministries instead of using the
29:30
church people. And I feel like that was very
29:34
controlling and manipulative. Like we weren't allowed to be a
29:38
part of ministries that we were called to.
29:40
It was everybody was involved in the bus ministry.
29:43
Every single college student had to be in the bus ministry
29:47
whether you wanted to or not. And then like you had to be
29:51
approved to be in other ministries.
29:53
Like if you felt called to work in a children's church, we had
29:57
to be approved for that. And I don't, I don't know, I
29:59
feel like if I feel God's calling to be in a certain
30:03
ministry, I feel like it shouldn't be up to someone to
30:06
tell me yes or no. You can't as far as any like
30:10
kind of like abuse or like cover ups, I don't know of any that I
30:15
can think of. But being honest, I mean I know
30:20
of a few situations like within the church but like not that
30:23
didn't involve like staff members.
30:25
Yeah, you know that thinking about what you said about your
30:29
view of salvation and just the standard of of the view of God.
30:34
I mean the holiness of God is is what's a wonderful attribute to
30:38
think about and to dwell on in our Christian walk and for
30:43
people to use that as you know, making you doctor salvation.
30:47
It is it's tough to to walk through an environment like
30:50
that. Definitely can can relate to
30:53
that in a lot of ways. And you know, even in our
30:57
research, we really couldn't find anything cover up was huge
31:00
other than just his authoritarian style of
31:03
leadership. And So what I want to sort of
31:06
ask is now is sort of as we transition, the last part of the
31:09
interview is what led you to realize that you needed to walk
31:14
away from Commonwealth and eventually, I assume walk away
31:18
from IFBI, Assume you're not still a part of the IFB or go to
31:21
life. OK.
31:23
And how did the leadership around that begin to to react?
31:28
So if you get his leadership, the church that you and Brett
31:32
were at, I'm sure you when you came back to Mississippi, you
31:35
were close to that even maybe even family.
31:38
How did they begin to respond when you pulled away and began
31:42
to leave the IFB? So let's start with the
31:46
Commonwealth part, because the latter part of that question is
31:50
very heavy. So the Commonwealth part I I
31:54
started realizing that your rank as a college student depended on
32:00
your home church, who your pastor is, who your family is.
32:05
An open door was just a little spot on the map.
32:07
Nobody cared about open door or they, they didn't know your
32:12
pastor's name. Like if your pastor wasn't
32:13
coming as a special speaker in Chapel, you didn't really mean
32:17
much. You were just a number there for
32:21
your, you know, you were there for your money.
32:22
Basically, they were just glad to have you because they get,
32:25
get your money. They, I, I started realizing
32:30
they didn't really care about me and my spirituality and my, you
32:33
know, mental health, physical health, spiritual health,
32:36
anything. So when I, when I really started
32:40
realizing that and I realized that I don't have to be here.
32:45
I don't have to give these people my money if they don't
32:47
care about me as a person, they only care about me as a number.
32:51
They only care about me as a bus worker.
32:53
They only care about me as a nursery worker or somebody to
32:56
keep their stuff running. That's when I decided, OK, like
33:00
I should probably look at different options.
33:04
So I wanted to come back closer to home.
33:06
So I ended up at tri-state for a little while and my best friend,
33:12
her name is Emily, and her dad was really sick with cancer.
33:16
And I really wanted to be there because he was like a second dad
33:20
to me growing up. And so I went to the combo, I
33:23
mean the tri-state and loved it there.
33:26
It was a totally different atmosphere, which I had known
33:29
those people since I was a kid. So that, you know, really helped
33:36
me like kind of start building my relationship with God again.
33:39
I didn't feel like I was being put down all the time.
33:42
I didn't feel like, you know, that nobody cared about where I
33:47
was spiritually because a lot of the people there, like, like I
33:50
said, they've known me for a long time.
33:52
So I knew that they cared. I knew that they loved me.
33:53
So I was in a much better place. And I stayed there for about a
33:58
semester, went to class, and then I helped take care of my
34:04
friend Emily's dad and her grandma that was really sick at
34:07
the time. So that was a big, you know,
34:10
turning point in my life where I just started to really work on
34:13
myself spiritually and, you know, get back strong in my
34:18
faith and things like that. And then after that, I did move
34:22
back home. And I don't know how much
34:27
Brady's told you about the church we grew up at, but I want
34:36
to say it was about a year and a half after I moved back home.
34:42
I, I was still in the IFBI, had started questioning just because
34:49
I had like friends and siblings that were not in the IFB and
34:54
people I knew that, you know, we're not an IFB.
34:58
And as I, you know, now that I'm older, you know, at this point
35:02
I, you know, realize that hey, these people are really not bad
35:04
people. Like they, they really are good,
35:07
strong Christian people. Like maybe maybe they're not
35:10
wrong. Maybe I have it wrong.
35:12
So I was already questioning at this point.
35:16
And then it was the day after Easter of 2017, I was at my
35:24
friend's house and I got a phone call that I need to come home
35:27
immediately. So I came home and when I got
35:30
there, I couldn't find anybody. And my dad pulled up on a four
35:35
Wheeler, it was raining, and he told me that my Mama was
35:38
missing. And come to find out, my Mama
35:42
had taken a whole bottle of Ambien and she had walked into a
35:46
into the woods and we found her in a Creek bed.
35:49
And we ended up getting her in an ambulance, getting her to the
35:54
hospital and things like that. She had apparently left a
35:59
suicide note. I never got to read the note.
36:02
The police officers let all of my other siblings read it, but I
36:05
was never allowed to read it. And to this day, I don't know
36:07
why. But then it came out that my
36:11
Mama had been having an affair with the pastor of our church.
36:17
And she, she at the time was the church secretary.
36:19
And so when it came out, she felt like that was her only way
36:23
out. So that happened.
36:27
And that is kind of really what started pushing me away from the
36:30
IFBI was mad. I was angry.
36:34
I had lots of questions, lots of questions.
36:38
We did end up getting a new pastor shortly after that.
36:40
Oh, wait, let me back up. I also didn't appreciate the
36:44
fact that the pastor was allowed to just leave quietly, but my
36:50
mom was made to stand and give a public apology in front of the
36:53
entire church. I felt like that was not handled
36:57
correctly. You know, things like that.
37:01
Anyway, we ended up getting a new pastor.
37:03
And then at the time I was in cosmetology school and I had to
37:09
wear scrubs to school and we were not allowed to wear skirt
37:12
scrubs. We had to wear pants scrubs.
37:14
And on my way home from school, it was a Wednesday night and I
37:21
was running late. So it was either I had to make a
37:24
decision, either miss church because I didn't have time to go
37:28
home and I didn't want to go to church in pants, or just show up
37:31
to church in pants. And I thought, well, at least
37:34
I'll be at church no matter what I'm wearing.
37:37
But I was called out from the pulpit in front of everyone by
37:42
this pastor for being at church in pants and at handshaking
37:47
time. I left and I have never stepped
37:50
back foot in that church. And that was the end of my IP
37:54
training. Yeah, well.
37:58
Go ahead, James. No, I was going to say that's
38:01
that's a lot did not know about your mom and and and the pastor
38:05
and everything. Brett shared a little bit about,
38:08
you know, pastor leaving and stuff, but I didn't know that
38:10
was the situation. Man, I that, that's, that's
38:14
heavy for a lot of reasons. A lot of what you said, me and
38:19
John, me and Brett, we've talked about lots of of, of stages of
38:24
leaving the spiritually abusive environments.
38:27
Recently came out with a book from Brokenness to Freedom And
38:29
it, it addresses almost every one of those issues of
38:32
questioning, bitterness, anger, of just how to how to work
38:36
through that and walk through that.
38:38
So definitely some difficult things there that you talk
38:42
about. Glad Brett and and I know this
38:45
and to tell you, Ally, I I knew the story, but I don't I don't
38:48
say anything unless you know, I don't say anything you should
38:52
have. James doesn't know you know,
38:55
unless you know, you know somebody who is involved in it
38:59
wants to say something. That's fine.
39:00
But it's not my place. But I'll tell you that past that
39:04
that it's it was the very next pastor after Walker, right.
39:08
I forget his name. Parker.
39:11
He was such a joke. He was.
39:14
He was like Colonel Sanders. He was such a joke.
39:17
I'm sorry. I just had to put that out there
39:19
in In the End of the Universe. And his, his whole family was,
39:23
you know, I, I came to realize that, you know, I was really
39:26
close to his, to his daughter there for a little while.
39:29
And after I left, you know, and it was one of those things that
39:35
when I walked out, the pastor's wife reached out to me the next
39:40
day and asked, you know, if I if we could have lunch.
39:44
But it wasn't to get me to come back.
39:47
It was to make me feel bad. It wasn't a hey, I'm sorry.
39:51
It was a well, you were wrong. You were in the wrong.
39:54
That's that's why this happened, you know, and you're right.
39:59
It was it that he was a joke. The whole family was a joke.
40:04
Well, let me ask you this, Ally. You.
40:07
You told us a lot and we appreciate your honesty.
40:12
But you know, how was all this left you?
40:16
How was it shape your faith? How's it shape your
40:19
understanding of the Christian life?
40:22
Yeah, so obviously I had to do a lot of of deconstructing.
40:26
I had to do a lot of soul searching and Bible searching
40:29
and I ended up going to a Southern Baptist church for a
40:32
while. And I had a one-on-one with the
40:35
pastor and I kind of told him everything that I was taught
40:38
growing up. And he put me into a group with
40:45
some other young adult women. And it was led by an older woman
40:47
in the church. And it was such a safe space for
40:51
me to, you know, we all just we talked about things that we
40:55
were, you know, we had been taught growing up.
40:58
And this woman was the most knowledgeable human being that I
41:03
have ever met in my entire life. Like she knew a Bible verse for
41:06
every single thing that any of us brought up.
41:09
And so we could bring up something and she would say,
41:11
well, turn, let's turn to this chapter, this verse.
41:14
And we would go through it and we would read it.
41:16
And that alone helped me so much just to because I didn't know
41:21
where to start. Like I, I had no idea like where
41:23
to start reading to figure out what do I believe?
41:28
You know, what, what do what is right?
41:30
Like what, what if what I've been taught growing up is not a
41:34
lie. So to have her like really be
41:36
able to help me was a game changer for me.
41:44
I'm trying to think I had some somewhere else.
41:46
I was going with that. Oh, so like now I, I mean, I
41:52
know who I am. I know who I believe.
41:54
I know who I am in Christ and I know that nobody can take that
41:57
away from me, you know, and I'm stronger in my faith now than
42:01
I've ever been. I don't attend church regularly.
42:07
I work a lot on the weekends, but I am part of a like a online
42:12
Bible study group with like 3 or 4 girls my age and then some
42:17
younger like teenage girls that we're able to help and disciple.
42:21
So I, you know, I really enjoy that we, we do like a FaceTime
42:24
call like once a week. So it's, it's been really nice
42:29
to be strong in my faith and to help be able to help others so
42:34
that they don't have to deconstruct and go through the,
42:38
the spiritual battles that I've been through.
42:39
That's. Great.
42:42
You know, one of the things, sort of the last question,
42:44
unless Brett has anything else, one of the things that we push
42:48
and we urge people to do is begin to figure out how you can
42:52
help other people. Once you've came through your
42:55
own journey, your own story, as you go through Scripture, often
42:59
you will see Paul disciple in the Timothy and Paul disciple in
43:02
the silence. He's constantly working on other
43:04
people. He's encouraging Timothy to to
43:07
work with someone else. And he he tells us in Titus for
43:10
the older men to be mentoring the younger men, the older women
43:13
to mentor the younger women. And so part of our journey in
43:16
life is pouring in other people and helping them through their
43:20
journey. And So what would you say to
43:22
other people that are sort of in this similar environment, how
43:27
you sort of went through it? And then what would you have
43:30
wished that you would have known as you were going through this,
43:34
coming out of the IB and then through this Bible college
43:38
experience and even through the the traumatic experience with
43:40
your mom, What would you have wanted to have known or someone
43:44
that said to you during that time?
43:47
I think the biggest thing for me would just be like, you're not
43:49
alone. Because I come out, I'd be like,
43:53
I feel like that's like one of the biggest feelings that you
43:57
have, like the loneliness, because growing up in the IV,
44:00
that's all you've ever known as all the friends you have, you
44:02
know, that's all of you know, the community that you have.
44:07
So coming out of it, just knowing that you're not alone.
44:10
There are people out there that know what you're going through.
44:13
They know how you feel, they know what you're struggling with
44:16
and, you know, connect with somebody, if anybody and, and
44:23
just talk about, you know, how you feel and you know what
44:26
you're going through and, you know, ask advice about, well,
44:30
hey, you know, how do you handle this situation?
44:31
How do you handle this feeling? I feel like that would have been
44:36
the biggest help for me with was, you know, would have been
44:41
to have people close that I felt safe, like talking to about it.
44:47
Because getting ready to step out of the IFB is is also really
44:51
scary because you, you don't know who you can trust.
44:54
So you don't want to let anybody know that you're questioning
44:57
because then, you know, they're going to go back until like the
45:00
leader, you know, the creature or whatever that oh so and so
45:03
is, you know, questioning leading.
45:05
And, you know, that's a very culty thing to do.
45:10
So yeah, just having like a safe place, but also just to remember
45:14
you don't have to be there like you.
45:18
You have every, every right to walk away.
45:21
It is scary, it is hard, and it does feel like you're starting
45:24
over completely. But you don't have to be there
45:27
if you don't have to stay there. Exactly.
45:31
I think you know, me and James talk about this a lot when you
45:35
when you're in the IFP and then you come out of it because your
45:39
whole identity is wrapped up in it.
45:41
You feel like you're on an island by yourself and like you
45:46
try to tell other people about what you experienced.
45:49
They look at you like what, what are you talking about?
45:52
Never heard of that. The IF what, what even is that?
45:56
And and you feel so weird even talking to people about it
45:59
because it's so strange. So just knowing, go ahead.
46:05
People like ask you, they'll be like, well, why did you stay so
46:08
long? Right.
46:09
And I'm like, 'cause they don't, they don't get it, I thought.
46:12
This was normal, like I thought that I had it right.
46:15
You, you know it, it takes a lot to shock you enough to realize,
46:21
oh hey, I can walk away. It takes a, a, a life changing,
46:28
altering event. And I've shared my testimony on
46:32
here. Mine was my pastor screaming at
46:36
me and hitting his desk in my office and just just laying me
46:40
out because I sent a resume to another church.
46:43
And that was the, that was the thing that kind of shook me
46:46
loose a whole lot. I need to get away from here.
46:48
But it takes something traumatic to wake you up to that.
46:52
And so man, I've just, I, I want to thank you, Ally, for coming
46:55
on here and sharing your story. And you know, I'm, I'm very
47:00
grateful for that. I'm proud of the person you've
47:04
grown up to be. And like I said, I've known you
47:07
since you was a kid and I am, I'm just, I'm so happy that you
47:12
had the opportunity to do this. James, did you have anything
47:14
else? Yeah, I had one other thing that
47:17
I want to say to piggyback off of what you said just now was
47:22
I'm a big documentary guy. I've watched the Nexium Colt.
47:26
They've got a, a podcast out now called A little bit culty.
47:30
I've watched the Branch Davidian, of course, the Jim
47:33
Jones. And you know, it's, it's almost
47:35
like this you're, you're on the outside looking into these
47:38
documentaries in these docu series and you're like, how do
47:42
you not see this guy is manipulating you or controlling
47:45
you or, you know, you're doing these things and you're like,
47:48
please get out. But then when you're in it, you
47:52
don't see those things. And you talk, you talk to the
47:54
survivors afterwards. And they're like, we just
47:57
thought that was normal, like sleep deprivation, starvation,
48:01
branding ourselves, doing these things.
48:04
That was just normal for us to do because everyone was doing
48:06
it. And we're like, yeah, but that's
48:08
not normal. And so that is that is one of
48:14
those things that people are, they just don't understand when
48:18
your whole life, like Brett said, is wrapped up into this
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identity, you know, how holy can I be?
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How great can I be to the pastor?
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How awesome can I look? And you know it, it creates
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little mini robots that are serving this man and no longer
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serving God. And so that that is wonderful to
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think about. But I thank you for bringing up
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your story and sharing that with us.
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And if this has been an encouragement to you, dear
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listener, please let us know. Share this, like this and until
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next time, to God be the glory. Great things he has done.
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Found my new name, found that good grace, found that healing.
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And the tears fell down my face when I found my beginning and
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has no ending. I found my second chance, Found
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my best friend, Found my forgiveness, found my happiness.
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Thanks for listening to the Four Freedom Podcast.
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If you enjoyed our content, do us a favor by liking,
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subscribing, or sharing our podcast or whichever podcast
49:38
platform you use. Be sure to join us next time for
49:42
the Four Freedom Podcast.