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Voices silenced, truth rising: The gadolinium reckoning · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:06
  Welcome to the unto take a deep breath.
• 0:11
  Take the higher road.
• 0:13
  That's what they always say.
• 0:14
  Let's see if they know the way they won't take it from me.
• 0:20
  Don't ever dump himself with swiping just a dream.
• 0:24
  You made your own so kid can scream.
• 0:27
  The people who will laugh with a never ending force.
• 0:31
  You never have the chance.
• 0:33
  So watch it with my friend because this is whole.
• 0:44
  It's time to there are moments in healthcare where you can feel the ground shifting beneath your feet.
• 0:59
  Moments where what we thought was settled science isn't so settled after all.
• 1:04
  Moments where patients, real people, real suffering are no longer willing to be dismissed, minimized, or silenced.
• 1:12
  And today we are stepping directly into one of those moments.
• 1:16
  Because when you have millions of medically ill and injured patients gathering in thousands of groups, sharing eerily similar stories.
• 1:24
  When you have clinicians quietly beginning to question what they were taught, when you have emerging research that refuses to stay buried, you don't get to call that coincidence anymore.
• 1:34
  You call that a signal.
• 1:36
  But here's the part that stopped me in my tracks this week.
• 1:39
  I received a message.
• 1:40
  It was shared anonymously from someone inside a patient community that was recently taken down.
• 1:46
  And I want to read just a portion of it to you.
• 1:50
  This group was my absolute lifeline.
• 1:53
  When I was in the middle of the most terrifying time of my life, facing what felt like a death sentence and unable to even walk.
• 2:00
  This was the only place that actually listened.
• 2:04
  You gave me direction when I couldn't find it anywhere else.
• 2:07
  You made me realize I wasn't alone in the fire.
• 2:11
  Because of this community, I was able to learn, advocate for myself and begin the long road to healing.
• 2:17
  A tech company can delete a page, but they can't delete what you've done for people like me.
• 2:23
  My recovery is real.
• 2:24
  My progress is real.
• 2:27
  I went from not being able to walk to standing on my own two feet today because of you.
• 2:34
  Let that sink in.
• 2:35
  This wasn't just a Facebook group.
• 2:38
  This was a lifeline.
• 2:39
  And yet, what happens when those lifelines disappear?
• 2:43
  What happens when entire communities, support groups, patient-led spaces are suddenly wiped out.
• 2:50
  What happens when truth becomes inconvenient?
• 2:54
  Today we're talking about gadolinium-based contrast agents, patient injury, censorship, and the growing call for reassessment.
• 3:03
  We're talking about courage.
• 3:04
  We are talking about alignment.
• 3:06
  And we're talking about what happens next.
• 3:09
  Because this isn't just about one compound.
• 3:12
  This is about informed consent.
• 3:14
  It's about trust.
• 3:16
  And this is about whether patient safety is truly the priority or just the talking point.
• 3:22
  You're listening to the nurses report on America Out Loud Talk Radio.
• 3:26
  I'm your host, Nurse Kimberly Overton.
• 3:28
  Before we get started today, I do want to encourage our listeners.
• 3:31
  If you have questions or comments, or perhaps you want to share your own experiences with what you're seeing on the front lines of healthcare, you can now submit those to us directly by emailing us at nurses at AmericaOut Loud.news.
• 3:44
  We would love to hear from you.
• 3:45
  We encourage all of you to engage in the battle and find your voice in this fight.
• 3:49
  But until you are able to do that, we will continue to be that voice for you.
• 3:54
  Today's conversation is an important one.
• 3:57
  And I'm truly honored to be joined by two incredible women who bring both lived experience and clinical expertise into this space in a very meaningful way.
• 4:06
  Joining me today are Debbie Heist Lambert and Nurse Bridget Bellow.
• 4:11
  Debbie is a fierce advocate for medically injured patients and someone whose life was forever changed after exposure to gadolinium-based contrast agents.
• 4:20
  What she has done with that experience is extraordinary.
• 4:23
  She is the author of gadolinium deposition and toxicity, humanizing a life-changing event, a book that doesn't just present research but elevates the lived experiences of patients who have long been overlooked.
• 4:36
  She has spent years researching, connecting and supporting others, navigating similar journeys, bringing truth, transparency, and compassion into a space that has too often lacked all three.
• 4:48
  Her work is rooted in faith, purpose, and a deep commitment to ensuring that informed consent becomes the gold standard in healthcare, not the exception.
• 4:57
  And alongside Debbie, we have Nurse Bridget Bellow.
• 5:00
  Bridget is a certified registered nurse anesthetist with 25 years of experience providing anesthesia care.
• 5:07
  She has spent her career caring for patients during some of their most vulnerable moments.
• 5:11
  And she considers it an honor to be a part of that journey.
• 5:14
  What stands out to me about Bridget is her commitment to continued learning.
• 5:19
  Her understanding that healthcare is always evolving, and that we must be willing to ask questions, to listen, and to grow.
• 5:26
  And that's exactly why this conversation matters.
• 5:29
  Because when we bring together lived experience and clinical insight, and we're willing to sit at the same table and truly listen.
• 5:36
  That's where alignment begins.
• 5:38
  And that's where change begins.
• 5:40
  Debbie, Bridget, welcome.
• 5:42
  Thank you both so much for being here.
• 5:45
  Thank you.
• 5:46
  Thanks for having us, Kimberly.
• 5:48
  We're excited, and it's well, it's good to be back.
• 5:50
  I know we did uh introduction when the book first published.
• 5:53
  So we've learned a lot since then.
• 5:55
  A lot.
• 5:56
  Yeah, you've actually, yes, my listeners will probably remember you have been on the show before.
• 6:00
  I think it's been over two years ago now because as I was thinking about it today, I remembered recording that episode.
• 6:06
  I was still living in Texas.
• 6:07
  I remember uh well, so that's it's been quite a while, so your return is long overdue.
• 6:12
  It's really good to have you back.
• 6:14
  Thank you.
• 6:14
  And I'm excited because Bridget's joined us.
• 6:17
  I met her in the uh support group, and she's just um she's a gad sister who is poisoned, but she works in the medical industry as many people do, and um, she's just brings a wealth of knowledge, and we're working on some papers that we hope to get published and get the word out there more and get more people involved.
• 6:36
  So please you know, we did have the support group.
• 6:40
  Um not the support group, but the advocacy page, living with gadolinium LLC was deleted this last week.
• 6:48
  Um, and it was such a shock to me because it's been such we had over 252,000 views in the last 90 days.
• 6:58
  And so we're reaching a huge community, and then a lot of those people join the support group, right?
• 7:03
  And the support group is for pre and post GAD people.
• 7:06
  We don't give any, you know, we don't do um interaction on the Living with Galilean page, but it's a resource page for research and news and articles and patient stories and and just uh other places to link.
• 7:20
  And so when it went down, I was shocked, and uh it happened simultaneously at the same time.
• 7:26
  I pressed the sun button to post a really nice message to the um the Norris family, and just you know, it was really short and just said that you know, we um we just were so thankful for him and that he had stood up for our group and uh raised awareness and that we were gonna miss him and we were grieving and we were wishing his family all the best and in our prayers, and um, so when my pages all went down, then I had to start figuring out how to get them back.
• 7:59
  And um the living with gadoline page is still down.
• 8:03
  So we're um appealing and seeing if we can get it back.
• 8:06
  Um, but yeah, um, to your point when you introduced us, I think any time that these communities disappear and um there it there's a void.
• 8:17
  There's a void.
• 8:18
  Yeah, there really isn't.
• 8:19
  And this has happened to me as well.
• 8:20
  I had uh one of my Facebook groups or pages that I was a page that I had that I had set up for my my Substack blog, and I would post all of the the blogs that I would um post, and it was a really rapidly growing community, and you know, with the click of a button, uh it's it's just all gone, and it's unfortunate, and we don't have any any recourse, right?
• 8:41
  We what do we do?
• 8:42
  We just it's such a blow when we're we take the time to build these communities, and it's a great resource for people, and there's there's nothing, literally nothing that we can do about it, but we we have to keep moving forward and we have to just keep trying to find ways uh to connect with people.
• 9:00
  Unfortunately, the censorship is is only going to get worse.
• 9:04
  You know that they are targeting you because you are making a difference.
• 9:08
  And um, you know, to your point, it's very, I just want to pause for a moment.
• 9:12
  I know this this week has been tough, particularly for your community with the loss of Chuck Norris, um, who was an incredible, just I mean, an American icon in general, but what he um was able to represent for your community with um his wife, I believe it was it his wife, I believe, that was affected by the gadolinium, and I know that they have both been incredible advocates.
• 9:33
  So just really want to take a moment to express our sorrow and um our prayers for the Norris family, uh, and just for his contributions.
• 9:43
  Yeah, he was quite a man and she's quite a lady.
• 9:45
  Yeah, they, you know, um, I've never spoken to either one of them personally, but um she did some write-ups for us and helped us in the group for a while.
• 9:55
  Um, they did file a lawsuit with several other patients, quite a few patients.
• 10:00
  And that was later dropped in the courts.
• 10:03
  And we've seen that over and over again where cases go to court and they just don't make it.
• 10:08
  But that was, you know, when things were a lot different.
• 10:12
  If we can kind of shift gears, and I, you know, I do want to just say thank you to Chuck.
• 10:16
  So thank you, Chuck Norris and to Gina.
• 10:18
  Um, but the whole evolving story of gadolinium has just changed.
• 10:24
  And um in 1997, they introduced the first um nephrogenic systemic fibrosis case.
• 10:31
  And since then, that dialogue just stays with the contrast agent, that that's the only thing that happens, and they haven't seen new cases in years because they pulled that particular agent off the market.
• 10:43
  Um, but we see new cases all the time in the VARS database, F-A-E-R-S, um, different from FARS for the vaccine database, but um, yeah, we we're still seeing even with the new agent that just came out in the last two years.
• 10:57
  We have um you can see in the database in the FARS database, there are cases reported of um fibrosis and NSF.
• 11:07
  Um now, whether or not they've been confirmed, I'm not sure.
• 11:10
  And that's definitely needs to happen.
• 11:12
  You know, we're all about the science too and the medicine.
• 11:15
  We want to understand it definitely.
• 11:16
  So those need to be confirmed.
• 11:18
  But then 2015, they started talking about the brain, and you know, now we're talking about the heart, and we have a lot of people in the world right now with heart conditions.
• 11:27
  So we really need to get a handle on this, but I think one of the things since 2020, and we'd like to see the dialogue shift within the medical industry within the patient education section.
• 11:40
  Um, that there's a lot of things going on.
• 11:42
  I know we have a list.
• 11:43
  Do you have that list, Burget?
• 11:45
  In front of you or anything.
• 11:48
  I'm sorry, I missed that.
• 11:50
  Oh, the um, well, like um since 2020, what we've learned since 2020.
• 11:55
  Oh, yeah.
• 11:56
  I didn't pull it up, but that's okay.
• 11:58
  Um mitochondria.
• 12:00
  I will say that the cases on your point about the cases and even one that there's uh with the norces cases have been thrown out because at the time we did not have an adequate research, and now um this last seven years, a lot of information's come out with different mitochondrial uh dysfunction uh related to gadolinium as well as mass cell immunimune issues.
• 12:29
  Um it seems like every few months there's an excellent new article.
• 12:37
  So yes, it hasn't been successfully um uh legal lawsuits, but that was because they said they didn't have enough information.
• 12:48
  We have enough information now.
• 12:50
  So I it'll be interesting to see what the next decade shows, because I everybody does know that they're it um it's been uh uh established that people store it, uh gadolinium.
• 13:03
  Um, and now the next thing is to um show what the losses are, yeah.
• 13:11
  And I think that's not a lot of people.
• 13:13
  I don't think anyone's promoting lawsuits, right?
• 13:15
  I I also know losses, losses, losses, okay.
• 13:19
  But yeah.
• 13:21
  Um yeah, back to Gene and those guys when they did the lawsuit.
• 13:26
  I mean, changed a lot of it brought a lot of awareness, but um anyway, I think the learnings that we're talking about are mitochondria dysfunction, impaired cellular energy production.
• 13:37
  You know, I can name off at least six research papers that have been talking about that immune dysregulation and chronic inflammation.
• 13:45
  There's at least six or seven research papers out that tie gadolitium to that now, mast cell activation and hypersensitive sensitivity syndromes, at least a half a dozen papers there, um, astrocyte adhesion and neurological changes, three really good papers there that came out recently.
• 14:05
  Uh, the bone marrow involvement and the altered uh hematoposis.
• 14:11
  I can't say that right, you guys are in the medical world.
• 14:14
  Um, and then la lanthanide um metatola metametallosis and nanoparticle persistency.
• 14:21
  Um, so there's just a lot, and I I mean, we don't talk about this enough anymore.
• 14:27
  And I think it is coming to the surface is we've we've gotten in uh uh in a medical uh way where it's normal just to look at one body part because that's where the ailment hurts, but we don't look at people holistically.
• 14:40
  And I think this research just shows that gadolitium travels everywhere, and so um it's just showing up in all the cells, all the organs.
• 14:49
  The the manufacturers did acknowledge retention in in the brain bone tissue organs in 2018.
• 14:55
  But we have to move past the NSF.
• 14:57
  We have to move past the because we hear it every day.
• 15:00
  People come to our group and they'll say, Well, they doctor said it's you know, all out of your system if you drink a lot of water in 20 or 48 hours, or um it's it does it's inert, it's stored in your brain.
• 15:12
  Yes, they acknowledge it's starting your brain, but it's inert.
• 15:15
  Um, and we know that that's not true.
• 15:17
  We have all these studies now to say that that's not true.
• 15:20
  So as the as the industry shifts and as humans as we shift and go back to looking at our bodies holistically, um, then we can kind of connect the dots.
• 15:30
  Oh, I had an MRI with contrast, I didn't have this issue or that issue or these symptoms before I had that injection, but now I my body's kind of gone rogue and I've seen, you know, I have a new autoimmune disease.
• 15:44
  I have uh heart condition, I have kidney failure.
• 15:47
  So how do we connect those dots back to holistic health?
• 15:51
  Yeah, I think it's really important you because for years we I I I've done it myself as a as a nurse that when we tell the patient, you know, it's safe, right?
• 15:59
  It clears the body.
• 16:01
  Um, there's really no issues if you have with patients that have normal kidney function, just you know, like you said, drink the water and you'll be good to go.
• 16:09
  But now we do know that the gadolinium can be retained in the tissues, including the brain.
• 16:13
  Um, so I'm I'm glad to see that there's growing research in this area.
• 16:18
  Um, but we're not talking about it enough.
• 16:20
  So that's why I'm so glad that you're both here and that we can continue to have this conversation um to show what the the new research is actually showing and and what's changed because to your point, people don't connect the dots.
• 16:33
  They go and they get the test and they um in general accept that it's generally safe because that's what their doctors tell them, right?
• 16:39
  So they just don't ever think it's the same thing like with vaccines, or you know, you you get these vaccines, and then six months later you pop up with an autoimmune condition, and you just never connect the dots.
• 16:52
  So it's it's so important that we continue to have these conversations.
• 16:58
  And I think um you guys are both in the medical industry, but you can probably talk to this a little bit more.
• 17:04
  But a lot of the source is inflammation, and we we try to dampen down inflammation, but the inflammation is really a body's uh warning sign, right?
• 17:12
  It's like something's wrong, pay attention.
• 17:14
  You have this inflammation for a reason.
• 17:16
  Um you have a contrast agent, and then you have inflammation in a different part of your body, the the gadolitium travels throughout the body and settles somewhere, you know, it's the same size as calcium, same size um molecule as calcium.
• 17:31
  So it competes with calcium, and I think Burgett likes to share the story about has longer arms.
• 17:37
  Um, and so it kind of swats the uh gadolinium swats the calcium out of the way and then takes over, marries onto a molecule, runs off, dance runs off the dance floor and and finds a place to hide or create chaos.
• 17:51
  Yeah.
• 17:53
  Yeah, I think it's definitely long overdue that uh we have an honest reassessment of what has been going with all of this emerging research.
• 18:02
  And that's what good medicine evolves, right?
• 18:05
  Bad medicine does not good medicine if there is even such a thing.
• 18:09
  I I don't know.
• 18:10
  Um, but good medicine evolves and it listens and it course corrects when necessary.
• 18:15
  Um, do you feel that people in doctors, physicians or researchers and everybody, do you feel like people are willing to come to the table and look at this new information?
• 18:26
  Or do you feel like they're just kind of still shutting everything down and saying, you know, the science is settled.
• 18:34
  I would say that um we don't have any wide acceptance um from any one particular um group of doctors, whether it's radiologists or um endocrinologists or just your regular MDs.
• 18:49
  And I was watching a podcast um with Dahlia Smith.
• 18:53
  She's been really um helping get the word out about a different uh group of medications.
• 19:01
  Um, and that's the um fluoroquinolins, which have like seven black box warnings.
• 19:07
  And the the interview was with Dr.
• 19:10
  Aaron Nance, I think is her last name.
• 19:12
  And they were talking about why that is why is it that the doctors don't acknowledge it and you get this miscellaneous um diagnosis, and she was saying, well, it's a it's how we eliminate, we go from the you know, we look for certain things, and we have to um eradicate that you don't have this, you don't have that, you don't have that.
• 19:34
  And so then you get this um, well, let's you know, have you get on some SSRIs or let's have you get on some pain medication and we try and dampen it down without really getting to root causes.
• 19:45
  And that's problematic for patients, especially in the gadolinium group.
• 19:49
  We see a lot of people being sent for psyche valves, encouraged to look at anxiety as a as you know, it's not really um, you know, it's manifesting as anxiety.
• 20:00
  Let's work there.
• 20:02
  And I think it's because we don't have diagnostic tools or ICD 10 billing codes yet to pinpoint these different things.
• 20:11
  But I think we're getting close.
• 20:13
  We did get our first round of ICD 10 billing codes in 2025.
• 20:17
  And there's another round of those that was introduced.
• 20:20
  And then we had the shutdown for the government and stuff.
• 20:23
  So it kind of got delayed, but we're hopeful those will get passed as well.
• 20:26
  And those target different body parts and will help drill down, right?
• 20:30
  And to your point, as science and medicine come together and evolve, um, those ICD 10 billing codes are really important.
• 20:38
  So if doctors are listening to this, I would say I encourage you if you're if you're if your patients are coming to you and they're saying I had gadolytic and they have a urine report in hand that says they have high levels of gadolytium, go through the medication guides with your patients, read through the medication guides, look at the symptoms, and then talk to, you know, talk about that and then use the ICD 10 billing codes because those ICD10 billing codes will help us drill down into the science which matches the research that's being done, like out of the University of New Mexico, for instance.
• 21:11
  Dr.
• 21:12
  Brent Wagner has uh uh patient study going and it's a repository, and he's looking at gadolytium, but he's also looking at other toxicants that we as humans are are introduced into our bodies, right?
• 21:25
  It's not just gadolytium.
• 21:26
  He's looking at quite a few um other toxicants, and so patients can go there and participate.
• 21:32
  But if you have a patient that's coming to you and they went to the University of New Mexico, they have high levels and it's still showing in their blood, their uh hair, their uh urine, uh, their fingernails.
• 21:44
  I mean that that is a you know, that is a positive test, and it is it's not just in their heads.
• 21:52
  So we have to get away from that as well, right?
• 21:55
  So to answer your question, no, we do not.
• 21:57
  We most patients are dismissed or gaslit.
• 22:00
  Yeah, and healthcare feels really divided just in general anyway, but patients are left feeling unheard.
• 22:06
  Many doctors who want to speak out, they just they feel constrained as if they can't speak up, and advocates like yourself, I'm sure feel dismissed as well when you're out here and you're fighting the good fight and you're you're getting that information out there, and then something like this happens where your group is just completely eliminated, and again, that's just what what recourse do you have, you know, other than to start all over again, but it's so frustrating, and and I really feel for you.
• 22:34
  Um, because like as I said, I've been there myself, and it's just it's a it's difficult to navigate and it's difficult to keep going when you just feel like, you know, well, why am I is anything I'm doing making a difference?
• 22:46
  But uh I want to ensure assure you that uh you are you are making a difference every day.
• 22:51
  And uh I'm so grateful for you and the community that you have built.
• 22:55
  Um we really need to have a community where patients are believed and providers are supported and research is is still continuing.
• 23:03
  Um yes, Bridget, gotcha.
• 23:07
  Uh I wanted to add the functional doctor, functional medicine seems to be more open to hearing about our stories.
• 23:15
  Oh, yes.
• 23:16
  Um, I was fortunate enough because I did exactly what uh Debbie's talking about with the silos, you know, I had eye changes, you know, they had sent me to the ophthalmologist, the rheumatologist, the gastro, um, the hematologist, um so many different doctors, specialties that you are not a priority.
• 23:37
  Um I was even supposed to go to Yale to have my skin uh skin tested, but it was finally the um the immunologist uh that recognized what had gone on because she was in the process of studying to become a functional medicine doctor.
• 23:57
  Yeah.
• 23:58
  So one of the limits for us is not having toxicology, immunology, uh environmental.
• 24:07
  Yeah, we don't fit into the normal paradigm of a complex patient.
• 24:11
  Right.
• 24:12
  Even though you have all of these different system uh system changes, and so um that delays care.
• 24:21
  It does and validity and so very expensive in order to even be heard.
• 24:26
  It it's very that's very true.
• 24:28
  And you know, at um at Remnant Healthcare, we we have our our practitioners are all trained in functional medicine, and you know, I would love to have you both present to my group of practitioners because I think that's so important that the that people in the functional medicine realm that are looking for root cause that they know that this is something to look at.
• 24:46
  And did they do uh do a lot of them even know that this is something to look at?
• 24:50
  Because I know we're looking at vaccines and other environmental toxins, but I want to keep it at the at the top of people's minds that hey, did they have an MRI recently?
• 24:59
  Because MRIs are very common.
• 25:01
  Um, these tests are not used as last resorts any longer.
• 25:04
  They're usually like the first go-to because let's just be honest, they're money makers.
• 25:09
  And at the end of the day, healthcare is a business and they're trying to um they're trying to produce revenue.
• 25:17
  And they're I think it's it's a helpful tool.
• 25:19
  Sure.
• 25:20
  That doesn't mean there's not, you know, severe risks.
• 25:23
  And the problem is is that when you do, first of all, when you do have problems, it's um nobody everybody says that doesn't exist, that never happens.
• 25:32
  Yeah.
• 25:33
  Rare reactions are real, rare reactions are uh real.
• 25:37
  Uh they um legitimate.
• 25:40
  And so when that happens, you know, what um what's our are we do we have methodology to treat it, recognize it and treat it?
• 25:49
  And that's a huge gap that's uh present right now.
• 25:54
  And I agree with you change that so that when somebody does have the reaction, rather than them being unintentionally gaslit, um that we let's that it that it gets documented correctly and also properly treated because it you know, uh SSRI is not gonna help that.
• 26:17
  Right.
• 26:17
  And I think the other thing I'll say to it is that to I what I did was objective versus subjective.
• 26:23
  I knew how I felt.
• 26:25
  I was very sick.
• 26:26
  And so I had in Ohio, you're able to get a lot of your own labs.
• 26:32
  It's a direct lab.
• 26:34
  And so then I had all of those in hand to say, this is what's going on, guys.
• 26:38
  Um, and then further Dr.
• 26:41
  Wagner's research, he was able to document that it was extremely high in my hair and my nails.
• 26:47
  So, you know, when I talked to my physicians, you know, I had objective data that they could see that was not, even though they don't test hair and nails, I had it from somebody else.
• 27:00
  So they they recognize that there's something to this.
• 27:04
  And as an anesthesia provider, we have rare reactions to anesthesia, right?
• 27:10
  That doesn't mean they don't exist.
• 27:12
  It means that we have to pay attention.
• 27:15
  Exactly.
• 27:15
  And I agree with that.
• 27:16
  And we expect the same for gadolinium.
• 27:18
  I I agree with you that MRI isn't is a very powerful diagnostic tool.
• 27:23
  Um, and it does make a difference for people.
• 27:25
  But I think the problem is is that the very real risks that we're talking about, they're just those risks are not communicated to the patients.
• 27:32
  And that's what's really important is that we we are doing a risk versus benefit analysis for every um for every procedure.
• 27:40
  Maybe maybe they they need to figure out what's going on.
• 27:42
  But as long as they understand and those risks are communicated to them, then they can make that informed decision if this is something that they want to proceed with or if there's maybe a different route that they would like to take.
• 27:53
  But again, that those risks are just not communicated.
• 27:55
  Everything is brushed off, and it's just drink some water and you'll be fine and you'll you'll um, you know, it'll clear the urine in a couple of days.
• 28:03
  That is not informed consent.
• 28:05
  And we we've seen this over and over again.
• 28:08
  Um, that it's it's as if informing incense just doesn't exist in healthcare any longer.
• 28:14
  Everything is safe, everything is effective and um and and people are left devastated in many ways.
• 28:20
  Their health, they're then they're they're not able to work, then they become financially devastated, and then it makes it difficult to to get care and to get treatment because as you mentioned, it's very expensive.
• 28:31
  If you're going to uh go for functional medicine consultations, which is which is why I I love what we are able to do.
• 28:38
  We we are trying to make functional medicine accessible to people at an affordable price because I mean it can it can cost you thousands and thousands of dollars just to get that diagnosis.
• 28:49
  And we're talking about people who have been financially devastated by their injury.
• 28:54
  Yeah.
• 28:55
  And you know, I think um I loved your idea about when Bridget was talking about the functional doctors, they'll ask, have you had an MRI with contrast?
• 29:04
  My doctor has it on her intake form.
• 29:06
  Have you ever had a uh MRI with contrast or any imaging with contrast?
• 29:10
  So that's a if we can get people to move that mindset to just like ask the question whether or not they prove it or they don't have symptoms or whatever, but that's one more point, right?
• 29:21
  To help us.
• 29:22
  And I think um if we just would ask that question, and then I'd like to also see us be able to in the next five years come up the checklist.
• 29:32
  Um, because we we do and we do um, they're not scientific and they're just you know random patient polls in our group, but we see trends from those polls, you know, that like um high percentage have thyroid problems, um, but huge percentage all of a sudden have dental problems or um big ones right out of the box are mast cell activation syndrome and small fiber neuropathy.
• 29:59
  Those are probably.
• 30:00
  The two most common first diagnosis that a gadolinian patient will get.
• 30:04
  And so when we start to look at trends like that, even though they're informal patient polls, that that should be just a you know a blinking light for researchers and also for doctors.
• 30:17
  So when a doctor diagnoses someone with mass cell, they can say, Well, have you ever had you know imaging with contrast?
• 30:22
  Um, and do that deeper dive.
• 30:25
  Yeah.
• 30:26
  Well, we are coming up against a break, but when we come back, we're gonna dive deeper into this uh this topic and get more information out to people about the gadolinium and and the dangers of it.
• 30:39
  Thank you.
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• 34:16
  Welcome back to the nurses report on America Out Loud Talk Radio.
• 34:20
  I'm your host, Nurse Kimberly Overton.
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• 34:48
  If you're just joining us, I've been talking with Debbie Heist Lambert, author and patient advocate and nurse Bridget Bellow, certified registered nurse anesthesist.
• 34:57
  Let's jump right back in.
• 34:59
  Ladies, thank you again for being here and for sharing this really important information that again, two too few of us speak about.
• 35:07
  This is a conversation that's so important.
• 35:10
  Thank you for having us.
• 35:12
  Yeah, thank you.
• 35:13
  And you know, um, I think we left off the how important this is, and we were talking about some of the early diagnosis that patients get.
• 35:22
  But part of what we want to be is solution-oriented too.
• 35:25
  We want to be part of the solution and figuring this out.
• 35:28
  I think that's why some of us patients were lucky enough to be able to do that.
• 35:32
  We have a huge portion of the population that is between the age of 22 and 44.
• 35:37
  And a lot of those patients are unemployed.
• 35:40
  Um, they have housing and food instability, um, they're couch surfing, they're um too sick to work, they're on disability if at all, they don't have insurance.
• 35:49
  And so um, the people like myself and Bridget who have been gifted enough to to figure this, some of this stuff out and have the um energy to to you know look deeper and work with the um doctors.
• 36:04
  Um, I think one of the things we want to do is be solution-oriented.
• 36:08
  And so we're getting ready to launch a petition.
• 36:10
  And the petition is really to partner with what's going on in the medical world to say there are some gaps.
• 36:18
  Let's talk about those gaps.
• 36:20
  We've identified them.
• 36:21
  I've been in the group for eight years, um, talked to thousands of patients, documented lots of different things, and we see trends, right?
• 36:29
  And we're not suggesting that they take this agent, these agents off the market.
• 36:35
  We would like to see them use differently or informed consent be part of it.
• 36:40
  So we have this petition that we're getting ready to launch the first part of April, and it's really talks about 10 different areas, such as training, um training that because medicine is so busy and you see so many patients, you might not have time to always um know about the latest things that are popping up, right?
• 37:01
  And and research that comes out because you guys are with the patients day in and day out, um everybody has only limited number of time amount of time.
• 37:11
  And I'll tell you what, Debbie, I say that all the time because I think people people, patients will they trust their doctors and they think, well, my doctor knows my let me tell you, I have been in healthcare for 30 years, and I can promise you that these doctors are not doing their own independent research.
• 37:26
  They're just not when would they have the time to do their own independent research?
• 37:30
  If you are I have been in healthcare for any amount of time, then you understand the way that it works.
• 37:36
  It works on productivity.
• 37:37
  They have these pay uh uh doctors just herding patients in like cattle.
• 37:42
  I they they barely know your name and you get a seven-minute visit.
• 37:45
  I don't know when you think that these these doctors are doing this this independent research.
• 37:49
  Now, I'm not gonna say none of them do, but I think that it's fair to say that most of your doctors, particularly you ones that are working in on in these corporate healthcare settings, they don't have the time.
• 38:00
  They also have their own uh families and and things of that nature.
• 38:04
  So they are they are not digging into this stuff.
• 38:06
  They are relying on the FDA and the CDC and all of these other groups that we now know are are captured agencies, right?
• 38:15
  Um, so please don't think if you're a patient that your doctor is out there doing this research.
• 38:21
  I I promise you, again, as a nurse who's been in this this industry for for three decades, they are not.
• 38:28
  And I I'm sure Bridget could probably back me up on that since she's been in there, like just about as long.
• 38:35
  So trying to then the informed consent, which everyone's talking about informed consent, right?
• 38:40
  It doesn't matter what the agent or drug is or even protocols and procedures.
• 38:44
  We're all talking about informed consent.
• 38:46
  What does that mean?
• 38:47
  Um, you hear all sides of it.
• 38:48
  Well, you can't really give informed consent because everybody's different and brood react different and risk is always, you know, but we can't lay on those old mantras anymore.
• 38:58
  Um, they just aren't working for us.
• 39:00
  And so we we hope to get some change and some movement there.
• 39:03
  Um, then off-label use, how is gadolinium used off label?
• 39:07
  And a patient needs to know is this normal?
• 39:10
  Do you use this all the time or are you using it off label and what does that mean?
• 39:14
  And how does that increase or decrease my risks?
• 39:18
  And those are conversations that need to happen.
• 39:20
  And you can't do that with a phone call with a receptionist who doesn't have in-depth training who's doing the um document to the pre-screening document, right?
• 39:30
  They just don't have that in-depth knowledge.
• 39:32
  So we want to get some training, education, more um documentation, ongoing dialogue, um, that's specific to the individual patients.
• 39:42
  And then to talk about retention, what does that mean?
• 39:44
  And what does that look like?
• 39:45
  And as a patient, you know, um, ask, well, how are you gonna get out of my body if I have a reaction?
• 39:53
  Because right now there isn't an FDA approved solution.
• 39:57
  Um, and I'm not saying, you know, I'm not.
• 40:00
  Um I just we need patients deserve to know that that there is no FDA approved, and that if you have a reaction, it's expensive, you will be paying for it on your own to do chelation.
• 40:12
  That's one option, um, whether it's IV chelation or supplementation chelation or whatever.
• 40:18
  I'm not a doctor, I'm not a scientist.
• 40:20
  I can't really speak to any of those things, but there are options out there, but they're expensive.
• 40:24
  And a lot of times you have to travel if you can find a toxicologist or someone who's trained in it.
• 40:30
  You have to travel away from home, which is more expense.
• 40:33
  So, and then the racy chart.
• 40:35
  I mean, I'm I'm big on the racy chart.
• 40:37
  Um, that means who's responsible, who's accountable, who's consulted, and who's informed right now.
• 40:42
  The radiologist never sees the patient.
• 40:45
  Patient goes back to their doctor.
• 40:47
  You know, there's a lot of dialogue and a lot of balls in the air that people are just like, I don't know, it's not my job.
• 40:53
  It's you know, that's that's not my experience.
• 40:55
  No one's no one's trained in uh in recognizing it or treating it.
• 41:00
  Yeah.
• 41:01
  Yeah, that's very certainly not in the mainstream, and most people are are kind of trapped in that mainstream, you know, Western medicine model, and it's unfortunate.
• 41:11
  And it's because it's so expensive.
• 41:13
  Patients, you know, they have their insurance, and we all know that the insurance doesn't cover um any type of holistic care or functional medicine or anybody who's going to dig in and get to the root cause of anything.
• 41:23
  So I think that there's there's clearly uh a trust gap between patients and between providers.
• 41:30
  I love the fact that you that you are solution oriented.
• 41:33
  I'm a very solution-oriented person, and um we I think we've identified the problem a million times over, but I really love people that are gonna focus on the solutions because we can't stay stuck in yes, there's a problem.
• 41:46
  We get that there's a problem, but we need to move forward with solutions.
• 41:50
  And I love that you are doing that.
• 41:52
  And um, what what are some of the ways that you are trying to begin to rebuild that trust between patients and providers?
• 42:00
  Do you feel like the providers are open to listening to you at this point after some more of this emerging research?
• 42:08
  Uh no.
• 42:09
  Yeah.
• 42:10
  I what I have found is that you can take five articles in, but they again, they're as you we mentioned earlier, everybody's busy with getting ready for the next patient.
• 42:22
  Yeah.
• 42:22
  And so, and if it's a rare reaction, nobody's trained on recognizing it.
• 42:28
  So, even with the research, it still was falling on deaf ears.
• 42:33
  Um, and I I think that that's more common than not from the group.
• 42:41
  Yeah, experiences.
• 42:42
  That's that's a real shame.
• 42:44
  Um, that you know, doctors are just and and even it's not it may not even be that they don't believe you.
• 42:50
  It's just that they kind of throw their hands up and you know, sorry for your luck.
• 42:54
  Um, that doesn't happen very often.
• 42:56
  And you're kind of like you said earlier, you're kind of on your own, and the expense is yours, and uh your your devastated health is yours to own.
• 43:04
  And and that's that's a real change.
• 43:06
  That that's a shame and it needs to change.
• 43:08
  Um, I think we all agree that a lot of there's a lot of really good people in medicine, a lot, a lot of great people in medicine, and they just are tied to systems that are outdated or archaic that don't allow them to do these deeper dives.
• 43:25
  They have to have an ICD 10 billing code, it's not on their list, so they have to go to the next ICD 10 billing code.
• 43:32
  Um, and they only have so much time, and you hand them a bunch of articles, they're exhausted.
• 43:36
  They might read them, they might not, but then they go to the Medicare system and they don't or the you know, the billing system and they don't see anything there.
• 43:44
  Um do they have time to go to PubMed and search through?
• 43:48
  I mean, there's four over 40,000 published research papers on gadolinium in PubMed alone.
• 43:54
  Um, and they don't have time to sort through all those, right?
• 43:57
  Um, so and I think that's that's truly why it is so important that we continue to build these parallel models of care.
• 44:04
  That's why I'm I've worked so hard the the last three years trying to build remnant health care.
• 44:10
  Um, and we need to continue to to build these types of alternatives for people.
• 44:14
  And it I say this often, it's not that the standard of care um is not being upheld.
• 44:20
  It's that the standard of care in this country is so disgustingly low.
• 44:23
  Um the threshold is so low.
• 44:25
  It's being met, but um, we need to there's no other alternative for people.
• 44:30
  So we need to have that alternative where people can can say, okay, there is another way, and it has to be affordable and accessible.
• 44:38
  And that's the only way that we we are going to be able to hold people accountable.
• 44:43
  Is that if there are other options, they are going to have no choice but to have to raise their standards and raise the the bar for how they care for patients and care for people because they're going to start losing people to these alternate models of care, which I think absolutely needs to happen.
• 45:00
  It is happening.
• 45:01
  It is happening.
• 45:02
  What I'm seeing is in academia, they are picking up um, you know, a department of integrative or department of functional, so that they uh that they capture that market.
• 45:16
  Right.
• 45:16
  And I to keep it from going further.
• 45:18
  Yes.
• 45:18
  And I and I say this too, and I I have to make this point because I think it's really important to make this point is that you will start seeing a lot of places crop up that are that will claim to be outside of the system.
• 45:31
  Um if they're taking your insurance, trust me, they are not outside of the system.
• 45:35
  That's a like that's a baby toe in the system is too far into the system.
• 45:40
  So I think we see a lot of um DPC practices that'll pop up and and they're like, oh, we're outside of the system, but are you really?
• 45:48
  Are you still taking funding from uh from the government?
• 45:52
  Are you still taking medical insurance that largely dictates the care that we are able to provide to patients?
• 45:58
  I think if you're not completely outside, then you're in it.
• 46:02
  And I think that that people just need to be aware they can use whatever kind of name they want, but um, you know, are they truly outside of the system?
• 46:12
  And it's really important to do your due diligence and find that out before you know.
• 46:16
  And I love what you guys are doing, um, Kimberly and opening these new facilities and making that happen in an affordable way, because I can't tell you the number of people I talk to who are like, well, I would switch, but they won't take my insurance.
• 46:32
  And I pay $8,000 a year in premiums for my insurance.
• 46:37
  Um, so I'm gonna use it, you know.
• 46:40
  Yeah, I'm that.
• 46:42
  I'll tell you, it's the biggest Ponzi scheme there ever was insurance.
• 46:45
  It truly is.
• 46:46
  When you think about what you pay for your premiums and for your deductible and for your co-pays and all of that, and what do you get at the end of all of that?
• 46:54
  You might get seven minutes with a doctor who does not listen to you and give you a prescription for a medication that is likely going to contribute to your um your decline, right?
• 47:04
  It's not, it's gonna either mask your symptoms or it's gonna make you worse.
• 47:08
  They're not getting to the root cause of anything.
• 47:10
  So I think it's so important that we do keep this type of care accessible and affordable and that people understand insurance, you know, maybe maybe you don't we start rethinking that that narrative that we need to have health insurance and we start doing uh looking into things like health sharing um and things that are open to you know to to providing funding for for practitioners like ours that are truly looking at root cause.
• 47:40
  Um, I think at the end of the day, we can but you know, all you have really is an insurance car, but do you really have coverage and are you better off for it?
• 47:49
  I think that's something people need to ask.
• 47:51
  I did have an intern, internal medicine doctor just recently tell me, why are you here?
• 47:56
  I can't help you.
• 47:57
  You have heavy metal poisoning, you have three heart diseases that you won't treat because you're afraid of the you know reactions to having heart surgery and all of these things and the drugs that we're offering atrophy the organs, and that's not helpful to you either with heavy metals, and I'm not equipped.
• 48:14
  I report to these people and he points to his computer, you know, these are the people that bill me that bill all of my costs, and um they're they're not equipped to help heavy metal people.
• 48:26
  So I encourage you to keep going to your, I'll do what I can and I'll run the tests I can for you, but um, you know, work with these other people outside the system.
• 48:34
  And I'm sorry it costs you more money, but I'll do what I can to help you, but we're just not equipped, we're not there yet.
• 48:40
  So I think there is some recognition.
• 48:42
  Um, I appreciated his honesty, and I appreciated that he really couldn't do anything to help me.
• 48:47
  But um, as the dialogue opens and changes, you know, that's what we want.
• 48:52
  Right.
• 48:52
  And you know, we we are working with a lot of patients and we do a lot of detox guidance for for situations like this, for not just obviously gadolinium or heavy metal uh toxicity.
• 49:03
  I mean, the toxic burden that we all face every day is just insane.
• 49:07
  It's whether it's you know, the air that we breathe, the food that we eat, the water we drink.
• 49:11
  I mean, there's we all need continual detoxification that is so so important because we do face an incredible toxic burden every day.
• 49:20
  Um we've got just really just a few minutes left.
• 49:23
  But I think for listeners who are hearing this and they are feeling that pull that yes, something needs to change.
• 49:29
  What can they do right now?
• 49:31
  Whether they are patients or providers or just advocates for truth and transparency, how can they get involved with your fight?
• 49:40
  I would say um look for the petition.
• 49:42
  We're gonna put it as many places as we can.
• 49:44
  We'll even ask you guys to post it for us and we'll get it out there and and sign the petition and just read through the petition, even if you don't sign it, it it will be an education piece that gives you things to think about and change your own behaviors, right?
• 49:58
  And and that alone.
• 50:00
  I mean, we all have to take accountability.
• 50:02
  No one's coming to rescue any of us.
• 50:04
  That's one thing I did learn about this toxicity is you really have to be your own advocate.
• 50:08
  You have to ask the difficult questions.
• 50:11
  Um, you know, what if I have a reaction?
• 50:14
  So I would just encourage patients that.
• 50:17
  And then I tell people all the time if you want to know what's going on in the health world and you're not aware, go join two or three support groups.
• 50:25
  Um, and just join just out of curiosity.
• 50:27
  Join a pancreatic cancer group, join a breast cancer group, and just read some of the stories, and that will enlighten you a lot.
• 50:37
  Yeah, it really will.
• 50:38
  And that was my next question to you.
• 50:39
  It's like what would you say to the patient right now who is suffering, who is being gaslit, who's being dismissed, and there's they're starting to question their own reality because they know something's not wrong, but they just continually are dismissed by the doctors who you know are supposed to know better.
• 50:53
  Um I think that's a great advice is to join these support groups because you, if nothing else, you're going to realize that you are not alone, you are not insane, you're not crazy, you're not any of these things.
• 51:05
  Um, that this is a very real and and true injury, and it is an injury.
• 51:11
  Um, and that there is hope and there is help out there, and there are people who care who will listen.
• 51:17
  I would tell them, I would I always encourage people write a journal.
• 51:21
  Think back when you first got sick.
• 51:22
  What changed in your environment?
• 51:23
  Did you get new garbage?
• 51:24
  Did you buy a new house?
• 51:25
  You got mold.
• 51:26
  Um, did you go on a trip overseas?
• 51:28
  I mean, so keep a journal and think about all those things because we can do a lot of prerequisite um research ourselves to connect dots.
• 51:38
  Yeah, definitely.
• 51:39
  And I think as people will start to get involved in these communities and figure out their own injuries, they can certainly start writing the survival guide for somebody else because I think that people want to pay it forward when they find that level of support and trust and care.
• 51:54
  They they certainly want to heal themselves, but then they want to be able to heal others as well.
• 51:58
  And I'm sure that's kind of what where Bridget is, um, you know, dealing with her own injury, where you are with your own injury, and that you're able to um put this forward and help so many people is is just so incredible.
• 52:10
  We are triaging and uh I use that word free um loosely patients that come to the support group.
• 52:18
  We end up being the person that listens.
• 52:21
  Yeah.
• 52:21
  Um, and and um identifies, you know, is it possible that this is what's causing your new onset of you know 20 different symptoms?
• 52:33
  Um then um uh Brent Wagner also has um a way for gadolinum to be registered on a toxicant uh level.
• 52:48
  Um, so with the hair and the nails because we're continuing to gather information.
• 52:53
  That's something also newly diagnosed or newly nuanced of symptoms.
• 52:59
  Um they might want to consider that.
• 53:02
  Yeah.
• 53:02
  Well, I think it's amazing.
• 53:04
  And certainly if there's anything that we can do, you know, we have our our practitioners and we have our advocates at Remnant Healthcare, and we would love to collaborate with you if we can help you and and the people in your group in any way.
• 53:15
  We are certainly open to that.
• 53:16
  And uh, we're always we are always ready to go to bat and and uh and and uh take on the challenges of this complex system.
• 53:24
  We'll we'll say that nobody has to fight it alone.
• 53:27
  Yeah, and thank you.
• 53:28
  I I would like to send some people your way, at least give them your names and stuff because you talk about detoxing, and I know there's a lot of natural detoxing and um less synthetics, less heavy metals and education that needs to go along with that.
• 53:42
  And so you guys offer a huge service because detoxing done improperly, as you know, can make things worse.
• 53:48
  And so we never want people to just jump on the supplement line or whatever.
• 53:52
  And I know that's for a whole other conversation, but we do be safe and do it the right way because you can make your system's symptoms worse.
• 54:00
  You really can.
• 54:01
  And I always recommend the guided uh the guided detoxes and we we have incredible, incredible practitioners that will guide um our clients through these.
• 54:11
  It's not something you want to go through alone.
• 54:12
  And as you said, you can make your situation a whole lot worse if you don't know what you're doing.
• 54:17
  And there are a lot of, you know, people, supplements, whatever.
• 54:21
  You can't trust everything out there.
• 54:22
  I don't care if it's holistic or whatever they want to label it.
• 54:26
  They know um it's all marketing, right?
• 54:28
  They know what they're what they're marketing to.
• 54:30
  So um, I think it's important to make sure you have a trusted advocate or a trusted practitioner that can walk you through these things.
• 54:37
  And like I said, we keep our prices extremely reasonable.
• 54:41
  Um, we don't, we're not thousands of dollars.
• 54:44
  We're talking like hundreds in the low hundreds of dollars to get people and guide them through.
• 54:50
  We have an incredible homeopathic detox that we're seeing uh a really great, great results with um for our vaccine injured and for our long COVID people.
• 55:00
  So I think that those are are definitely things that we can we can look at and try to assist people, like I said, everybody is individual.
• 55:07
  So that's how we look at people holistically and individually to see what will work best for them.
• 55:13
  But I can't we we are out of time.
• 55:16
  Um, but thank you guys so much for coming here.
• 55:18
  This conversation is so so important.
• 55:21
  And I will definitely have you back again.
• 55:23
  Thank you very much, ladies.
• 55:24
  Thank you.
• 55:25
  Thank you, Kimberly.
• 55:26
  And we really appreciate having been able to talk about this and uh get the word out and come up formulate a pro uh um a solution.
• 55:35
  Absolutely.
• 55:36
  Thank you so much.
• 55:38
  And that is all the time that we have for today, friends.
• 55:40
  But remember, we are here on the air five days a week, Monday through Friday at 10 a.m.
• 55:44
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• 55:46
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• 55:49
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• 55:50
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• 55:56
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• 56:00
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• 56:05
  I'm your host, nurse Kimberly Overton.
• 56:08
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• 56:10
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• 56:11
  Until next time, be safe, be well, and God bless.
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