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Principles of Overlanding International Travel Security for Overlanders · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I am
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: your host, Scott Brady, and I'm joined today by my
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: good friend JJ. Now. JJ works for the Foreign Service
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: and he works in particular with travel security and security
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: considerations for Americans that are traveling abroad.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: He is based in Sub Saharan Africa, and I had
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: the chance to meet up with him when I was
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: in Kenya and we talked at great length about travel security.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Now this applies to not only Americans, but to anyone
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: else traveling around the world. We do the deep dive
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: into documentation ways to prepare for your trip. We also
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: talk about things to do, things not to do, how
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: to enroll in this step program, and some other really
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: important considerations for the traveler. So please enjoy my conversation
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: with JJ. So, JJ, thank you so much for being
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: on the podcast today. It's a huge on for me
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to interview you, and I'm also so excited about this
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: because you have so many actionable pieces of advice for
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: people that are traveling. You've done a lot of travel
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: around the world in all forms of auspices, so it's
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: just a really exciting opportunity for our podcast to be
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: able to spend this time with you.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, likewise, it's it's it's a great honor for me
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: as well to join in on the podcast. I think
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: I've heard every episode probably awesome, so to be able
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: to join in and if I can contribute in any way,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: you know that that definitely is worthwhile. Sure.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Well, and we can start off by assuring all of
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: the listeners that we're both crazy because we all we
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: own land Rover Defenders.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, I think that was the that initial connection. Uh,
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  Speaker 2: we uh, we definitely share the hardships.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, although yours, yours definitely has the best headlights I've
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: ever seen on a classic Defender. I mean they actually worked. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: actually see you behind me.
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  Speaker 2: No, Yeah, it's uh, it's been a process because as
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: most say, but it's been worthwhile.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no doubt. Well, I think it would be It
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: would be fun to hear a little bit about what
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: sparked your interest in working for the federal government and
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: working then internationally. What kind of what was the first
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: sparks for you on that.
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm from a border community. I'm from Arizona,
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  Speaker 2: and I grew up crossing the border to see family
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  Speaker 2: all the time and at the time, you know, it
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  Speaker 2: didn't seem like anything special or like that was even
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: crossing an international border. Sure at the time, I think
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: that later in life, as growing up in Arizona, you know,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: we had off road vehicles and we'd get out. But
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: you know, when I was about nineteen years old, I
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: did a church mission that took me to Columbia and
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: South America. And when I was there, I just I
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: really caught the bug, sure, being overseas and it was
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: something really spec And so when later in life I
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: had the opportunity to combine you know, working and living
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: overseas and off road travel and with vehicles, it all
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  Speaker 2: kind of came to a kind of a melting point.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: So Sure, and now you get to do literally all
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: of that, Yeah, on a regular basis, which is extremely cool.
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  Speaker 1: And if you were to give some advice to a
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: listener that maybe has some of the same aspirations, what
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: would be a couple pieces of advice for someone who
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: wanted to work for the federal government internationally?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can talk a little bit about, you know,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: where I work with with the federal government. So I
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: work for the US Department of State and the US
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Department of State is a huge organization. I am with
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  Speaker 2: the US Foreign Service, So the US Foreign Service is
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: a subset of the US Department of State. The officers
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: of the US Foreign Service work primarily overseas, and we're
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: stationed at more than two hundred and seventy locations around
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  Speaker 2: the world. So the US government's widely represented around the
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: world with embassies and consulates, and the US Foreign Service
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  Speaker 2: is made up of about thirteen thousand Foreign Service officers.
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  Speaker 2: There's about eleven thousand Civil Service officers and forty five
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  Speaker 2: thousand local nationals. These are individuals in each location which
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  Speaker 2: work for the US government, but they're you know, from
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  Speaker 2: that specific country. So like here in Kenya, we have
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  Speaker 2: a large number of people which they help provide us
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  Speaker 2: the proper context so that we can carry out the
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  Speaker 2: US mission, the US diplomat diplomatic mission abroad well.
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  Speaker 1: And it just seems that the opportunity to be able
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  Speaker 1: to interact with local agencies would have a lot of
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  Speaker 1: it would support your efforts, I would think of ways.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll tell you that in every place that
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  Speaker 2: I've worked at, it's just been really positive the relationships
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  Speaker 2: I've developed with you know, not only at the fisial level,
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: but also with you know, just your everyday person that
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  Speaker 2: you are to interact with here in Keny It's been great.
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  Speaker 1: Kenyan people are wonderful, truly, truly wonderful.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, some of the most friendly people I think I've
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  Speaker 2: like literally met in my life.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they seem to be genuinely interested in travel too,
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  Speaker 1: which I haven't found in all of the African countries.
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  Speaker 1: Usually when you say you've driven from Cape Town to wherever,
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  Speaker 1: they don't need they don't know how to relate to that,
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  Speaker 1: Whereas Kenyans seemed to be very interested in so did
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: you go through Mozambique? And did you go They really
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: have a good understanding of Africa. And I think that
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: that's because Kenya, especially Nairobi, is such an international hub.
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  Speaker 1: You have, the UN has a big presence here. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: the US Embassy is like a college campus. It's huge.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, a lot of a lot of people
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  Speaker 2: in Nairobi come from different parts of Kenya. Sure, and
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  Speaker 2: then if you even get out to Mambasa, I mean
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  Speaker 2: that is one of the oldest sports cities in the world,
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  Speaker 2: and so it's you know, a lot of people from
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  Speaker 2: all over the place and they are pretty curious if
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  Speaker 2: you say you've been to parts of the country, and
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  Speaker 2: especially if it's a part that they're from, it just
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  Speaker 2: really gets them excited.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, they can really relate to it, for sure. So
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: let's talk about try to tie it back into your
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: own experience as an overlander, because that was one of
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: the ways that we were able to connect. Is your
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: passion for overland travel and you identified that we were
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: going to be driving through Africa and you reached out.
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  Speaker 1: But tell me what you love about overland travel and
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  Speaker 1: how has your job helped you kind of become even
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  Speaker 1: a better overland traveler.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, for me, it's about just discovering new
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  Speaker 2: places and as a you know, as a child, you know,
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  Speaker 2: growing up, I would always look at you know, maps
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  Speaker 2: for example, and seeing these far away places and I
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  Speaker 2: remember getting one of those country books about Egypt and
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  Speaker 2: seeing the pyramids and thinking I want to go here
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  Speaker 2: one day. But you know, I didn't have the means
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  Speaker 2: as a kid, and we didn't do a lot of
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  Speaker 2: travel growing up, occasional some trips you know, here and there.
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  Speaker 2: So later, of course, when I got the job and
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: started working as a as a special agent with a
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  Speaker 2: diplomatic security service. Uh. One of the first trips I
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  Speaker 2: did was to Egypt and so yeah, and so I'm there, uh,
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  Speaker 2: you know, riding a camel, real a typical right, riding
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  Speaker 2: the camel out to the pyramids and uh and then
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  Speaker 2: I'm thinking, Yeah, to me, it was amazing to finally,
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  Speaker 2: you know, to do that, and I knew I was
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  Speaker 2: in the right place, and you know, some of the
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  Speaker 2: skills I had gained from you know, previous travels, speaking
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: speaking Spanish and living abroad, I was actually able to
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  Speaker 2: use those on the job. The way that the work
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  Speaker 2: has helped kind of helped me be a better overlander
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  Speaker 2: is that when we do, you know, like a protection
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  Speaker 2: mission where we're providing security for some of our personnel
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  Speaker 2: or someone that's visiting that's high ranking, we will need
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  Speaker 2: to do a lot of preparation. So things like what
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  Speaker 2: you have in the vehicle, how heavy the vehicle is,
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  Speaker 2: your gear, your communications, all those things are super key
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  Speaker 2: to make sure that the whole group is safe.
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  Speaker 1: And navigation, like primary secondary means a navigation exactly a
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  Speaker 1: couple different routes.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we makes.
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  Speaker 1: You even better as an overlander because you're thinking about
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  Speaker 1: is this the only way in and out of.
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  Speaker 2: Here, correct, you know. Even more so, like we have
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  Speaker 2: the technology to to you know, map out where we're going.
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  Speaker 2: But one you know, piece of if you say technology,
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  Speaker 2: that is key, that is the most reliable, is a
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  Speaker 2: person that knows where they're going so exactly. So we have,
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  Speaker 2: you know, local individuals that can help guide us. We're
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: supposed to know, but we also have local individuals that
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  Speaker 2: can help guide us to the specific locations. They know
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  Speaker 2: exactly what it's looking like, they know what wrong looks like,
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  Speaker 2: if something is kind of off, they know if there's
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: been recent rains. So right here in Kenyon right now,
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  Speaker 2: as you see, there's been a lot of rain, and
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  Speaker 2: so we've even had to you know, we have to
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  Speaker 2: continually adjust is there been rain in the area, should
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  Speaker 2: we go another way? Those are all part of the equation.
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  Speaker 1: I remember when I was trying to get through to
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  Speaker 1: Gucci Galpa in Honduras, and you know, the city had
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  Speaker 1: a reputation even when I was going through there, and
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  Speaker 1: I thought, you know, my best bet is to hire
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  Speaker 1: a guy, a taxi driver and tell them, you know,
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  Speaker 1: here's here's ten bucks and you're going to get forty
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  Speaker 1: When we get to the other side of the city,
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  Speaker 1: and he was vested in our success.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we were.
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  Speaker 1: We were able to follow him and he knew right
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  Speaker 1: and we told him, Hey, we need to go to
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  Speaker 1: a grocery store. He knew the exact grocery store to
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  Speaker 1: go to, and we were able to follow him all
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: the way through the city and we made his day,
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  Speaker 1: and he definitely made our day. So locals, for sure.
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  Speaker 2: We had I had a similar situation when I was
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: going through through Jordan and a taxi driver and and
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  Speaker 2: I wanted to I had only had a very short
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: time in the city and I wanted to go to
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  Speaker 2: Petra and go to some of the other sites. And
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  Speaker 2: this guy took me everywhere. And he lived in the
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: US before and and ironically he also had been part
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: of the Jordanian like the national judo team, so he
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  Speaker 2: was like backed up that security for me. But he
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: took me everywhere I needed to go, and he had
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  Speaker 2: that local knowledge, so I wouldn't have been able to
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  Speaker 2: do it as quickly as I wanted to without having
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  Speaker 2: someone like.
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  Speaker 1: That and the context that he could provide as a
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: citizen of the country in his own passion for those
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: places So one of the things that I see it
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  Speaker 1: in your face and when we get a chance to talk,
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  Speaker 1: is the how much you enjoy these experiences with your family.
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  Speaker 1: How can you also share with people that are getting
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: ready to travel with their kids. Maybe they're worried about
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: traveling with their kids around the world. How can you
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: relate some advice back to the overlanders around traveling with
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: your family.
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  Speaker 2: For my family, you know, the decision to live abroad, right,
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  Speaker 2: it was a family decision. I joined the I've been
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: with Diplomat Security and with the State Department for approximately
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: nineteen years. And so the way it works with us
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  Speaker 2: is every two to three years, we have to move
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  Speaker 2: from location to location, and there's a process to that.
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  Speaker 2: I definitely make the family part of the process. So
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: we do a lot of research on you know, what
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: country we're maybe looking at, and then when the time
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: comes to move. You know, we're lucky that we have
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: the like logistical support of the US government to help
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: us move from place to place. But once we make it,
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  Speaker 2: we go, we go all in and I invest everyone
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: in the process. If we're going to do a trip,
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  Speaker 2: I try to encourage you know, my my my wife,
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: and my kids too, to research a little bit.
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  Speaker 1: And maybe do they get a chance to kind of
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: say this is something i'd like to see or wow, cool.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, they they they definitely have their input. Like we're
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: getting ready to do a trip soon and we've tasked
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: them to do some research on like what what what's
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: the top place that you want to go to and
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: if we can make it work, because if you're just
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: dragging the kids around and just making them as you know,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: they go to a lot of museums. There's nothing wrong
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: with museums. They're great. But I can take so many
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: museums right, so there might be a less So you know,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: we did a trip to South Africa and we saw
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: some we went to some museums, but we also did
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  Speaker 2: quite a bit of surfing with my kids and made them,
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: you know, not made them. They wanted to do the lessons,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: but at the end of our time there, they just
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: really they loved going to Cape Town in South Africa.
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  Speaker 2: That was a positive experience. Yeah. But you know one
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  Speaker 2: thing is when with with my job, we we when
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: we go to a country, we're there for several years,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: and so it's it's also important to impress upon upon
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: the others that they're also representing not only themselves and
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: their family, but also the United States if you go
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: in the official capacity. So I try to impress upon
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  Speaker 2: my children that they're almost like many diplomats and that
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  Speaker 2: they need to, you know, behave in a certain way that's,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: you know, that that represents themselves in a positive light.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: It's been an overall great experience because we've been able
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: to expose them to all different types of cultures in environments,
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: and they're able to see things firsthand that they may
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: have read about in books. I'll say that from the
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: parent perspective, it looks sometimes like they don't always totally
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: totally appreciate it, you know, but I have come to
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: see that they actually really do, you know, because then
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: they're referring to something later in life that when they're
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: researching a project and they owe, actually I went to
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: that location or I was nearby. So that's been actually
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: really really great.
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  Speaker 1: And they become like these many global citizens. They've been
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: so exposed to different viewpoints, different religions, different languages, people
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: that look different from them, and that just becomes a
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: new normal for them. That's got to be positive.
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's they also are able to dismantle these different
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: stereotypes that may be out there. So living specifically in Africa,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, they've just been exposed to all the different
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: cultures you know, here and in Kenya and in different
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: parts of Africa. One of the big benefits of being
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: in some remote locations is you have access to other
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: countries that are nearby. And and you know, if you
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: would have asked me, you know how many years back,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: if I imagine that I would be here at this time,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: I would have said, there's no way. So that it's
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: that for us is really huge and I hope that
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: it pays dividends down the road. I think it will.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I suspect, well, it probably in some ways. Like you
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: the mission that you did to Columbia changed you in
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: so many ways, I suspect.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I think also, you know, a lot of
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: families might be concerned about, you know, do they the
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: locations looking at moving to, like do they have the
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: things that they were comfortable with back home? And you know,
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: I'm here to say that in you know, most of
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: the things that you can enjoy back in the United States,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: if we're talking about the United States or whatever country,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: they probably have something the same or equivalent in X
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: y Z country.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you and I just had baby the tacos tonight
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: and they were super good, were super good. Yeah.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: No, I mean I'm thinking about you know, I think, uh,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: you know, we took our daughter to the Nutcracker in
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: San Diego. We also took her to the Nutcracker in Tijuana, Mexico,
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: and we also have taken her to the Nutcracker here
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: in Nairobi.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: So that's awesome.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a ballet company and every you know in
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: all these locations.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: So how cool is that? Yeah, that's amazing. So to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: get a little bit more granular, maybe a little more
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: advice based around all of your experience, what are some
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: of the foundational things that overlanders need to be thinking
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: about when they start to do their first international trip.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: So for for those that are listening, we're trying to
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: frame this in the context of you've traveled in the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: United States, you've explored, you've gone through Utah, you've gone
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: through Washington State or Idaho or whatever, and now you'd
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: like to maybe go and explore Baja California. So we're
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: trying to frame it around the idea of this is
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I'd love to go do an international trip, and I'm
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: thinking about doing my first international trip, So JJ, what
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: would be some pieces of advice that you would give
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: to those people that are just getting ready to go.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: So, first of all, I'm a security guy, right, so
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: I'm always going to push being being safe and there
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: all the information is out there to help you, and
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: you are going to have to do some homework to
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: make sure that you know you're doing it correctly. I
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: would always direct everyone to the State Department website that
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: manages travel because there's a lot of information in there
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: that can help you research. You know, requirements for passports
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: and documents, things you should look out for on the
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: security side. Uh. There, all that work has been done
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: for you already and you just have to spend some
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: time to go through there. And there's it's very country specific.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: So the you know, the website is is just travel
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: dot State dot go B and I know that you
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: know a lot of travelers have have looked at this site.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: There's there. The information there is is very current, and
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: there's a number of professionals that work at the US
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: embassies and consulates that make sure that it is up
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: to date. Our biggest priority is the safety of American
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: citizens abroad. We want to make sure they're doing it
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: safely and they have all the information and that it's
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: a positive experience. If you look in there, there is
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: something called STEP, and I know you're familiar with STEP.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: It's the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program. What what that is?
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: It's a system where you can register that you're going
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: to a specific country and you will receive any relevant
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: information that has to do with you know, safety and
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: security when you're traveling.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Get it by email. I believe you can get it
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: by text message.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Ye that that system will provide you even with information
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: that's emerging. So let's say you're in a country and
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: all of a sudden there's a natural disaster. So I
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: lived in Nicaragua for a couple of years and earthquakes
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: was a thing that could happen. If you are enrolled
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: in STEP, that information is going to get pumped out
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: to you. And the information is basically it's it's developed
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: from multiple sources. Any safety and security information is developed
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: from the US embassy, the security personnel like myself, are
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: our consular section, are our local connections to the government,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: local media. That all will feed into that system and
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: it will make sure that you're properly informed with current,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: up to date information.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And as I recall, when you go in to sign up,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: you do provide some personal information. You also provide some
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: itinerary based information, so which makes sense because if there
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: was to be something that happened, you then would at
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: least have an idea where this person might be.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct. And I recall, you know, when I
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: was in one country and there was a natural disaster
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I believe it was Mexico, right, and it hit Baja California,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: and individuals that were enrolled in that the consulate had
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: the ability to attempt to reach out to those people.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: It was basically a list of individuals that they could
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: try to assist. And I'll tell you that, you know,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: our consular officers were very dedicated to try to find
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: those individuals. And so that that is correct, right, That's
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: the best way that you can inform the US government
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: that you're in a country in the event that something
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: goes wrong.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Some other things that I think are key to have
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: is you know, on within that travel dot state dot
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: gov specific to the country, you can gather a number
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: of relevant phone numbers that could help you I remember that.
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, emergency contact numbers.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I and I always suggest to have, you know,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: some sort of book that has all the relevant documents
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: and copies, but also to have a digital backup because
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: we're in a digital world now and that's a good
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: way to have something just available in case you need
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: it and your stuff gets damaged or lost.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I typically will have a copy of it on
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: my phone, like we're a hard copy or a digital
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: copy is on the phone, but then I'll also have
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: another whole set up in the cloud. Yeah, that way
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: if you just if you have to, because let's say
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: you lose a passport, Like that's something that does happen
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: to people. Like what if someone's in a country and
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: they lose a passport, what should they do? What would
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: be the next step that they should do.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: So this section that can assist you is it's part
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: of the consular section at the US embassy or the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: or the consulate, and it's called American Citizen Services. And
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: there's equivalent with other countries too, like there's a Canadian
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Services and their role is to help you know, Americans,
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: they get in these situations you would want to contact them,
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: typically you email them and I know sometimes people don't
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: want to just email, they want to call someone on
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: the on the phone. But they have their monitoring that
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: that email all the time, and they will set you
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: up with an appointment. They'll get you to come in
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: and they're able to get you an emergency document that
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: can help get you out of the country. Sure, and
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: usually have to fly out and the airlines will let
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: you fly unless you have an actual document, so they
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: can help you get set up with with another passport
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: and emergence passport and then you can get back and
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: get a full validity passport down the road.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but those are the kinds of things that happened
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: to people or you know. Another one that comes to
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: mind is a medical emergency. You know, just you know,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: like if you're if you're having an emergency while you're
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: in a country, it's it's a good idea to let
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: the consulate know. If it's a life threatening emergency, it's
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: a good idea to let them know that's Alma's happening.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there are are officers that work in American Citizen Services.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: They they do want to be able to assist and
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: they'll have things like even lists of hospitals that are
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: hospitals that other Americans have gone to. What happens is
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: if there's you know, bad situations or practices, they're made
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: aware of those things. Because the consular the consular section,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: you have to understand that they're viewing things from the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: kind of the wide lends issues that are happening to
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Americans throughout the country all the time. So you, as
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: an individual traveler may have had a really positive experience
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: in a country and never had an issue. At the
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: same time, the American Citizen Services and the Concert Section
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: may know about things that have happened country wide, and
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: that kind of goes into those notices as well. Sure
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: they want to make sure that Americans are advised of,
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: you know, everything that could happen in a country, and
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: because that's important to know, you know, more information is
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: the best for you as a traveler to just be
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: prepared in case.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: And I think that's when it's so important to because
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: you could look at a country like even some of
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: the ones that I've traveled through, where it would may
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: be a level three threat and it's good to keep
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: it in the context of Oftentimes that means that there
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: are specific areas that are at that level, and it
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: may not be everywhere, but it's really important to dig
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: into because I've found that it'll even be specific of
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: of we're not recommending people travel to this region, and
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: that's really helpful to kind of know what to avoid.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so you know, remember that the information is
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: feeding in and so the interest of the US government
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: is to make sure everyone is informed as much as possible.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: When an area is put down as being, you know,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: it's area to avoid, what essentially is saying is that
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: the US government does it typically go in there unless
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: they have special security resources. You know, sometimes it's necessary
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: to go into areas for different reasons, but they want
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: to make sure that, you know, the the large group
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: of citizens are aware that, hey, there could potentially something
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: could potentially happen to you if you're in this area.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: So we want to make sure you're aware. Anytime the
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: US government changes their security posture, anytime they kind of
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: going on high alert, by law, they must notify all
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: Americans that they're doing that. And I think that's important
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: to understand from the overlanding perspective, because I understand it
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: right from the from the traveler. They might see and
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: read the notices and it looks like they shouldn't travel anywhere.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: What it is is really is the US government wants
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: to say, hey, there's the potential for things to happen
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: in some of these places, and sometimes those threats are
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: you know, specific to different groups, right, And that also
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: is good to understand the we understand right that the
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: US government we're an attractive target to bad actors, whereas
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: maybe just you know, one person traveling by themselves may
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: not be the most attractive target. But again, remember that
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: if we have to make a change to our posture,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: we need to notify everyone that we've made a change
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: to our posture. So I think that's the key piece
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: to understand.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, to filter it through that perspective that way. But
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: the I believe that the key is to be informed
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: because I've never had the feeling when I look on
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: the website that it's saying don't go anywhere. It just
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: means be aware of these things. And as the threat
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: level changes, you may want to change how you travel,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: which could include traveling in a convoy, making sure that
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: you're not traveling at night, making sure you're not traveling
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: into the areas that they're suggesting that you do otherwise,
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: I can say from personal experiences, the times that I
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: have gone into areas that was suggested otherwise, something interesting
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: usually happened, and sometimes it is pretty uncomfortable. So I
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: have found it to be pretty accurate.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: So that's good to know.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, So when you think about overlanders going into
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: a new country, what are some of the behaviors or
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: or I guess procedures or or traveling methods of traveling
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: you suggest people avoid? You know, just like these are
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: a couple of things not to do.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: I think it's, uh, it's it's mostly personality driven. Right,
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: when you go into a new place, you want to
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: show respect. You want to be respectful, and you know, we, uh,
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: we often travel from the lens or through the lens
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: of the perspective of us, as you know, coming from
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: whatever country we're coming from, and we want to apply
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: it in that new environment. And you know, sometimes that
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: isn't the best way to do it. Maybe best to
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: just kind of sit back and do a lot of observation.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: But any sort of confrontation, right, you want to avoid
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: sort of a confrontation. I think a lot about like
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: driving around, right, And as we were discussing earlier, driving
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: is like a language, right, you need to learn how
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: driving occurs in that country, and it can change as
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: you cross the border from one place to the next.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: And so you want to avoid any sort of issue
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: that leads you down the road of getting into confrontation.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: It's better just to try to you know, try to understand,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: sit back and try to observe. We we often, you know,
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: are a little loud when we go into new countries.
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: And I noticed this from sitting back and looking how
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: others are looking at you know, foreigner. So you're drawing
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: more attention to yourself. You're usually dressed a little different,
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: or you might have a different vehicle, but then you're
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: drawing even more attention to yourself because you're being maybe
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: a little too loud. So just you know, that's something
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: to just kind of keep an eye out for.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: And some countries are very loud, yeah exactly, but many
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: of them are not.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: So if it's there loud, then join in. I guess
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: that's say yeah, yeah, But being respectful, you know, is important,
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: and you want to avoid any situation. You need to
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: do your research. You want to avoid any situation where
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: you're technically breaking the law. So I know, sometimes, uh,
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: maybe the law says one thing, like when you're driving
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: around and everyone's breaking it. The problem is that the
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: moment you break the law, you're opening yourself up to
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: a situation where someone can kind of go after you.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: Or you know, you just want to basically follow the
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: laws as much as possible and not.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Tempting to speed because everybody else is speeding. But in
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: my experience, they're going to let six locals go by
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: and they see that bright green overland vehicle coming at them,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: they're going to yeah, and you're doing one ten eighty,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: they're going to pull you over.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: So you're making yourself a you know, you're opening yourself
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: up to potentially running into an issue. I think if
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: you're if you're maybe breaking the laws. So and I
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: think the the one other thing is, you know, we
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: we always want to watch, you know, our entitlement right
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: wherever you come from. You know, it's it's something that
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: you have to constantly check with yourself because of maybe
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: your status or money or what you're driving. We have
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: to always be mindful that we're that we need to
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: understand that things are maybe being done in a certain
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: country for a certain reason. And it works for them,
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: and we don't need to try to transplant you know,
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: what we know to be the way things you know
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: should be to that new environment. So I think it's
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: best to just again just always check that entitlement, make
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: sure that we're good. You know that's viewed negatively, I
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: think in many places around the world. I'm talking universally. Yes,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: try to you know, try to say hi, try to
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: kind of link up with that culture. The best way
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you can.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Learn a couple, couple you know, pieces of the language.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Tell them thank you, tell them hello in their own
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: language and a smile, and you know, look them at
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: don't put don't have your expensive sunglasses on if you
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: can avoid it, look them in the eyes. And especially
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: when you're when you're coming up to traffics and stuff
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: like that. Get those aviators off and because they may
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: want them.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: That's the problem.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: You may not leave the track and stop with those
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: aviators if you're not careful.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: So you know that that you know if you get
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: stopped right that officer, uh. And I always try to
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: relate the best way I can. Right, I'm a pull
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I'm technically I'm a federal officer as well, and I
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: try to find common ground the best way I can
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: that person, for many reasons, could not be having a
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: good day. They've been had a negative experience in the past. Uh.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: If you're able to deconstruct like those barriers by just
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: saying hi and asking them their name or asking them
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: how their day has been going, maybe that's going to
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: help you and go your you know your way.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, I couldn't agree more. I mean even when I
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: was in I was an officer at HeLa Ben Auxiliary Field.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: In Arizona where yeah, I know exactly where, So I just.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Remember how that felt. You know, when you pull somebody
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: over and they are pissed even though they were doing
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: something wrong. So it's important to remember that. Yeah, for sure.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Well those are some really really good insights. What are
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: what mistakes do you find travelers make bringing stuff into countries.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm aware of is bring
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: making sure that the prescription drug that you're on in
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: the United States is actually allowable. And I'm fortunate that.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think a cholesterol medication, so I don't
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: bring anything else with me. But in the United States,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a wide range of pharmaceuticals can be prescribed and they
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: may not be allowed or they may be controlled substances
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: in the country that you're visiting.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know growing up on the border that you
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: know something that it's allowed in Mexico. There's certain ways
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: to bring that into the United States, right, and might
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: they might need a doctor's prescription. And I learned that
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: early on, right when you have to ask the questions
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: to be sure anything that could you know, they could
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: create questions about you, I think are good to know
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: to avoid. So I know, you know again I'm a
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: security guy, so it's you know, you some people get
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: in trouble for having certain lengths of knives, for example.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: So if you know, you should research what's the actual
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: law and maybe you print it out so if you
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: get stopped, then that officer may not understand the olmah
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: that that's maybe one thing to have you.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Could show due diligence, right yeah, I mean Australia is
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: that way, yep. I mean just certain fold Any kind
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: of mechanical assist of a folder. I mean something that
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: you and I could carry around in Arizona or Utah
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: or whatever is no big deal. But if you have
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: something that is mechanically assisted or you can open up
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: one handed, oftentimes or not legal yep. They usually require
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: it to be minimal length and require sometimes two hands
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: to open.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: You know, of course you touched on the drugs, right,
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Obviously a legal drug would be a bad thing to
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: have on you, but people make mistakes all the time,
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: so it's not It's not uncommon to hear about someone
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: getting hung up for having drugs or for example, a
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: drug may be legal in the state in which you
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: came from in the United States, but it's not legal
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: technically in like Mexico for example. That's something to watch
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: out for. In some countries, things that are offensive could
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: could create issues for you, So offensive type material could
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: be technically illegal in that country, so you don't want
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: to bring something that can cause that problem for you
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: as well. And then in depending on some countries, some
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: advanced electronic equipment could be viewed in the in the
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: negative way and they could think, you know, you have
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: other objectives that could hang you up and create issues
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: for you as well. So you should definitely know what
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: equipment you have with you and be able to explain
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: what it is and show how it works. That could
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: help you know eliminate issues and.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Making sure if it does require a permit that you've
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: gone through that process. Yeah, you can't have a SAT
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: phone in Sudan. You can't have a SAT phone in Chad.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: You can't. I mean you can, I can't. But there's
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: there are places where you're not to have those things,
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: so making sure that you've got some insights around it.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: One I know that has hung up some people is drones,
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: for example. So you should know the rules about bringing
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: drones into a certain country. There may be you know,
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: restricted fly areas or you maybe you could period can't
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: bring them in the country. And if you're doing you know,
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: international travel, multiple stops you need to check, including transit
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: countries because that transit country could you know, you get
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: hung up in that transit country even though your final
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: destination is another country. So you know, do your research
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: of course in a way.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: We talked about that the other day and I went
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: from Europe into Morocco on my way to Australia, and
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: I had a drone with me and they founded it
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: in Morocco and it was amazing. But the comandante guy,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, he took the drone. He says, when you
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: come back through the airport, I'll have it in my office,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: and believe it or not, he did, like he gave
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: me the drone back, but that usually did not happen
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: that way. I feel like I was very fortunate. So yeah,
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: you really want to do your research. I mean. And
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: another thing too is even the things that you're wearing,
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: So being mindful of is a watch that you're wearing
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: going to signal something to someone that makes you more
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: of a target if you're wearing you know, even guys
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: wearing shorts in certain countries is considered disrespectful. It is
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: purely disrespectful, and they may view that that way. They're
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: not likely going to beat you up, but they may
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: treat you differently because they know that you're you're going
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: out of your way to say I don't I don't
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: agree with your culture and I'm going to do whatever I.
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Want or people in your party. And then if you're
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: the guy and you're trying to, you know, protect the
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: other person with you, or you could put your end up,
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: putting yourself in a situation that you didn't anticipate and
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: that you could have avoided by just, you know, maybe
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: maybe dressing a little bit different sure or a little
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: more conservatively it could help there's definitely places around the
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: world where it's it's pollar opposite, right, it goes, it
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: swings a lot, So yeah, yeah, of course, but.
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: It's good to be mindful of that when you go
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: into those places. So what are some things just to
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: flip the question, what are some things that you do
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: recommend people bring or or think about bringing that can
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: help them as travelers.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: So I'm really big on communication. So the way that
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: we do a lot of our planning is we have
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: basically four tiers of communication. We have a primary, an alternate,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: a contingency, and an emergency. So that's going to be
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: you know, that's the way you call for help, that's
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: the way that you can you know, get resources that
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: you don't have. So we really, I really recommend that
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: when you're doing your travel, you plan for you know,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: that primary maybe just like a cell phone or like
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: a radio. Your alternate may be Internet based communication through
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the different platforms. Your your contingency or your emergency could
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: be a SAT phone or maybe like an inReach system
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: that has two way communication. So make sure that you
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: have that squared away. In addition to you know, your
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: mechanical and your medical so I know we always you know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: we always talk about you know, having you know, you
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: can only take so much with you, right because you're
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: weighing down the vehicle. But you know, if you're going
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: to very remote locations, you may have medical equipment you
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: bring with you, like a full kit. And you may
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: not be a person that's professionally trained as a medic,
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: but you may be in locations where there's trained professionals
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: in the area, but they just don't have the resources.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: So traveling around here in Kenya, for example, there's a
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: lot of vehicle bays and remote locations. As you're traveling,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know that there's all the tools necessary all
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: the time in that specific vehicle bay. But if I
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: have the tools with me or some key tools, I
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: know that that space is available to potentially use. Or
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: there may be a land rover mechanic that's nearby they
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: could help me do the work. So I think, you know,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: we don't always need to think from terms of I'm
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: going to bring everything, but it's stuff that I know
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: how to use. Well, if you have something that's like
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: a larger kit, right, maybe there's someone nearby they can
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: actually help you do the work or can help get
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: you on the road again.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: And having a couple spares with you if you know
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: that they're common failure points, bringing along syringes and other
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: medical devices that can be used if you go into
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: a clinic that they may not have available, or at
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: least you can make sure that they're using something that
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: kind of meets your expectations. Yeah, those are certainly things
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: to consider. Yeah, having that stuff with you is important.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: And the communication I find gives not only the traveler
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: a lot of comfort, but it gives your family back
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: home a lot of comfort. So being asking your family
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: back home, like ask your mom or dad, like, how
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: would you like for me to communicate what you want.
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of you know, South America, and
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: they they may surprise you. They may be like, have
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: a great time to call me when you get back,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: or they may be you know, it would feel really
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: good to me to know once every other day how
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: you're doing. And that's where something like an inReach can
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: really make a difference.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: I think. Also you can plan for bearing environments so
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: we have the best you know, differences of elevation here
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: and can or different places I've been to where you
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: could be at you could literally be at sea level
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: one day and you could be at I mean Kilimanjaro
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: right and twenty thousand feet or I've taken my truck
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: up to parts that were eleven thousand, five hundred feet
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: and it can get really cold, or as you've seen
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: in the last couple of days, the rain will come
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: and go on and off. So planning for all the seasons,
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: you know, the best you can, and having that gear
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: you know they're available and ready for you. I have
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: a good system where I use Pelican cases in the
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: back of the defender, and I have a lot of
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: things just that are always there in case. You know,
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: it's it's air tights waterproof, I can use that as
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: a bench to sit on or some of this step
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: up on things like that.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always a good idea to make sure the
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: cases in your defender are water tight.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Experience. Yeah, okay, so let's let's talk a little bit
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: around We did talk a little bit about documentation, but
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: what are some pieces of advice around applying for visas.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: What documentation should people make sure that they have with
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: them when they cross a border. You know, there's there's
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: things that generally come to mind, like making sure you
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: have a passport and you're and copies of your passport
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: and photographs of your passport. But also if you if
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: you've for example, went through Global Entry and you have
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: a Global Entry i D, that's a good thing to
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: bring along. It's an alternate ID having not only your
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: driver's license, but an international driver's license that you can
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: hand to officials in the countries that you're in. A
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: lot of times people forget to bring their yellow fever.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, because the yes, it changes by my country,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: and from experience, the changes can go into effect immediately.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: You could be mid travel and all of a sudden
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: there was a change in policy and they don't want
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: to allow you on the plane. You know. Luckily sometimes
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: you can get those vaccinations when you're traveling if you
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: had to. But you want to always check the validity
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: of your passport, right because I've seen individuals get hung
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: up mid transit because you know, one country allowed you know,
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: within a six month validity left on your passport and
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: others did not. So you you really want to make
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: sure that you have more than six months from from
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: the conclusion of your travel.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: And also the number of pages can vary by country.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Correct number of blank pages left in your passport.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I've seen people also get hung up on that they
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: were stuck in a country because the next country required
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: certain number of blank pages. I will just refer back
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: to that travel dot travel state dot state dot gov website.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: ILL list everything there and and they're saying it there
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: because they've dealt with cases of people getting stranded or
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: needing assistance. I really recommend you know, like we we
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: talked about having copies of everything, if you get stop
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: by official you can always hand a copy of that
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: document or show a digital copy or something like that.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Those are options. And when it comes to uh, you know,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: passports and visas also, so a lot of people apply
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: for visas to go to different places. Typically a country
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: will have all the information on their pages as well.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: So sometimes people get caught up in fraud schemes because
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: they use fixers and those individuals aren't really acting in
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: the best interest of the traveler. Sure, so it's good
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: to it's good to look what's there, and you can
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: check on forums and other people who have recently traveled,
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: although those can vary right what it says in there,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: but the official pages are typically your best shot and.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: A lot of those official pages are linked from the
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: US Travel Advisory Site. I found a lot of those visas,
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: especially since there's been such a sift towards eVisa, which
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: is a huge deal because you used to have to
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: be able to used to have to send your passport
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: into Washington, d C. For a lot of these things,
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: which can create all kinds of complications.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: So and I know help, I know that sometimes individuals
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: have urgent travel or something comes up, and so there
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: are ways to request, you know, an expedited appointment. And
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: I know that people are looking at you know, at
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: those requests. So that's there are options. But it's better
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: practice if you can plan in advance, well in ahead.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Don't don't just assume that you'll be able to enter
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: a country, uh, you know, with your with your US
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: passport or other passport. The agreements they vary by country
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: from country to country, and they change.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: I've seen them change mid travel, for sure. So when
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: people rock up to a border, because this is always
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: it's funny to hear travelers talk about that, it's probably
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: the one thing that gives overlanders the most anxiety. Yeah,
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: is you know, either a dent in their vehicle or
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: crossing in an international border. Do you have any pieces
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: of advice for people when they're preparing to go to
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: a border At the border, you know, you've crossed thousands
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: of border crossings.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, yeah, And you know I worked well when
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: my family lived in Mexico. They crossed the border every day. Yeah,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: And for a couple of years I worked with the
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: group at the border at at Sandy Sedro. That's the
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: largest border land border crossing in the world. There's sixty
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: thousand to one hundred thousand people that crossed every single
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: day of that border. And one thing I learned is
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: that you know, the officers working there, they're they're really dedicated,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: They're they're trying to do the right thing, and there
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: are legit to make concerns about people crossing the border,
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: you know, not legally. What I'll say is that when
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: you're a person that has that, you're working in an
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: environment where you see people cross all the time. After
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: a while, you develop a just a sense you can
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: kind of tell when some something is maybe just a
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: little bit off. And so if if if you're ever
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: crossing and you run to an issue where you get
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: referred for maybe a secondary sort of inspection wherever, maybe
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: not just the US but another location. You know, you
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: should just consider that that officer may they may just
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: seen something that that you know, was maybe a little
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: off and they have to process people quickly, so that's
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: why they refer you over or sometimes there just may
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: be you know, your name for example, may something may
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: king because of your name, and that officer makes names. Uh,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: the secondary can't be real, you know, they may not
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: even be able to override that in the moment. And
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: and so, but you know, showing humanity towards that officer
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: that's doing their job and finding a way to you know,
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: just be personal that goes a long way. I'll say
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: that you don't want to give an excuse again for
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: to give them an issue. And you got to know
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: the rules with crossing. So I think one time I
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: try to cross a piniata. I wasn't even thinking about it,
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: and there were certain rules with crossing a pinata because
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: again obviously you could stuff stuff in there and it
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: was kind of it was kind of funny, but I
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: wasn't thinking about it because I brought, you know, this
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: this beautiful pinata. I was going to take it to
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: a party and it was. It was kind of funny.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: It was a bride and groom pinata, so they looked
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: it was for some friends in San Diego. So the
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: officer was like, I got to refer you because we
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: have to scan those items. And I was like, oh
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: my gosh, I didn't even think about it. So I
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: had the option, of course, of getting agitated or saying
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: that I work there at the border with the group there,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: but no, I got to let the officer do what
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: they're supposed to do. So, you know, the best way
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: you can to appeal to them. And I'll say, as
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: you're doing international crossings, having all your stuff in order,
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: right is the best way you can do very organized.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: If you're presenting everything in a way that makes it
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: hard for people to, you know, find some sort of
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: addinin thing that you didn't do, and it's all there,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: then it just makes their job easier to just approve
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: you and process you in.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: Well, and then it just gives them some confidence that
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: most likely the rest of you is in order, you know,
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: just like, for example, not not rocking up to a
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: border in a T shirt with six days of spilt milk.
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: You know, just come. You don't need to wear a suit,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: but just come being professional and squared away. And you know,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: it's even surprising, you know the number of times that
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I've gotten a more detailed inspection when the vehicle is
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: just trashed, when it's like dusty and muddy. It's the
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: same thing if you come up to the US border
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: from Mexico and the vehicle is just like what were
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: you doing in the desert?
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, I think and thinking also a dealing
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: with the officers at the border. You know, I think
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: that that respect thing again is so key because you know,
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: you're talking to a professional, sure in their country. And
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: if you think, if you know, let's say you're in
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: another country and you're dealing with the officer at a
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: border crossing, if you think, would I talk the same
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: way to an officer entering the US or coming through
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: you know, security at the airport. If the answer is no,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: maybe you should change a little bit that approach. And
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: I think, again it's hard for us sometimes we have to, oh,
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: we constantly check ourselves and make sure that we're presenting
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: in the proper way.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: And those those border officials are people of influence. They
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: are they are individuals of power and influence and they
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: it's probably been very difficult for them to get that job,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: and they're respected in their community, and they're used to
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: being respected by the people who come to the border
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: asking to enter their country. They absolutely what to do,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: and you're asking them to let you in.
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: They absolutely have powered influence over you at that moment
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: in time. So so you definitely want to respect that.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: Ye come into it with the right perspective. So, because
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: security is one of your specialties, do you have some
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: advice for individuals traveling just some practical considerations around security.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: Like a fun example was when you and I just
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: went to dinner. Normally I like to sit facing the entrance,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: but I'm like, I'm not the guy that needs to
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: be face needs to be, So i just put my
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: back through the whole restaurant because I'm like, yeah, I'm
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: with JJ, he's the guy who needs to be seeing
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: what's going on.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: I'm a big believer in that there's a way to
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: make security practices part of your normal routine, and it
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: can be done in a way where you don't think
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: so much about it. So it's not good to be
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: paranoid and constantly thinking about, you know, the bad things
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: that can happen. You need to be aware of the
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: potential risks. But I you know, I always try to
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: push like if there's things that you can make part
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: of your routine that it could actually improve your your
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: safety and security. So like for me, a big one
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: is like driving a night. Right, if I can avoid
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: driving a night, I avoid driving a night because in
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: certain you know, places and not being and I may
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: not be well lit. Maybe there's there's more accident, it's
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: there's the inability of law enforcement forcement personnel to get
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: to you at night time, or the response may be slower.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: So if you just don't drive at night, then that
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: will never be an issue for you.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: I'd say it's number one. Yeah, it really is number
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: one for overlanders.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: Vehicle speed. I know you've talked about vehicle speed in
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: the past. I feel the same way. And as you know,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: you drive an older vehicle like a defender, you have
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: to actually watch your vehicle speed a lot. That that
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: also the conditions of where you may be the you
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: may be in an environment where the roads themselves are
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: not you know, completely engineered for the for the speeds
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: that you know we may be used to driving in
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: the United States, they have a whole system, and you
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: can drive actually very very fast in some parts of
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: the country, but you know, you may be in a
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: place where it doesn't support that speed, and the vehicles
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: around you may not be able to support you know,
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: that speed be able to break in time. There may
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: be different conditions that are you know, regular in that area.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Cattle gigantic car eating potholes, big.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Potholes, cattle crossings, giraffe crossings. I mean, you name it right, No.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: It's the truth. And then you also get the random
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: speed bump that is not signed, has no paint on it,
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: and next thing you know, you and your defender are airborne.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I've experienced that a couple of times for sure.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: That's how you got to slow down, really do if if.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: You're if you're slower, and if you're again, if you
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: have rules like you don't touch the phone when you're
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: driving something like that, well you're already eliminating potential situations
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: that could, you know, put you in danger. And I
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: always when I'm doing remote travel, I consider how far
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: the nearest hospital is for me. So if the nearest
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: hospital is actually a flight away, or it's you know,
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: more than six hours, then I get. I think it's
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: important to monitor how you're driving. You've done the drive
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: down to Baja and there's large sections and there where
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: there's no cell signal. The nearest hospital is maybe back
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: in in Sonata, maybe Tijuana, or it's down in Cabo,
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: and you're literally days away drive somewhere. So how can
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: you get the help that you need if you're so
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: far away? So I think, you know, speed is definitely
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: a very very important piece, but.
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: Something we can always control, yes, And I think it's
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: the you know, there's the the knowns, there's the known unknowns,
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: And the one thing that we do know is that
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: if we if we remove some of the speed from
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: the equation, then every scenario that may come up will
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: be better than if you were going faster.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: Correct. And I would try to keep in mind who's
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: traveling with me too, So if I have family with me,
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: I take it personal that I'm responsible for them and
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to put them at risk unnecessarily, right
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: buddy system for me. I know that some travelers travel alone,
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: and that's fine, and people do it for different reasons,
• 57:15
  Speaker 2: but if there's an opportunity to bring someone along, I
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: always try to make that part of the equation, you
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: have more than one eye look it out for things.
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: It's your group, and so that gives you a little
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: more a little more safety and security there as well.
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: Communication check ins. So if your normal procedure is that
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: any time you depart or you leave or you have
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: an automated system that does it for you, when something
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: is not happening that way and it's off, it's going
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: to alert people to like something may be wrong. So
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: now you have other people that are looking out for
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: your safety because your normal procedure is that you always
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: check in, you know, you always call your mom or
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: something when when you arrive to your destination exactly. I
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: think it's wise too to not go, as we say,
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: into the blind when we're going to location, Meaning it's
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: always smart to check local and social media on conditions.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: So if there's heavy rains, people are going to be
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: putting stuff up there and they're going to hashtag it
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: to that location, and so you don't want to enter
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: a place that is, you know, dealing with the situation.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: It could be fire, natural disaster or something. You know,
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: maybe it just.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Shocking stuff that can happen, and it normally does hit
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: social media pretty quickly.
• 58:34
  Speaker 2: But a lot of people don't check. They just kind
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: of travel and go and checking social media. Checking where
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: you're nearest. We talked already in the medical but nearest
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: hospitals of where you're staying. If you if it's just
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: one of your proper planning procedures for your for your travel,
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: you're you're building up your security in a way that
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: many I think don't do. Yeah, I always go to
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: I research trusted locations, so I'll look and if I
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: have the ability to call someone that's from that area
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: to be hey, how's this area, Especially when I travel
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: I'm doing Airbnb, I might you know, see if I
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: have any friends in that country, I'll contact them and
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: I'll say, hey, how are the how's this neighborhood or
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: what are people saying about this neighborhood. Sure, that's very smart.
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: And we talked about having a local guide or someone
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: local that can take you around. I mean, if you
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: have someone that knows the environment. One of the big
• 59:36
  Speaker 2: benefits to that is that they know what what not
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: normal looks like. So you may because you're new to
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: the environment or the country, you may not be really
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: reading body language or things that things that people are demonstrating.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Someone that's local may be able to kind of give
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: you a of a pre indicator sure to something that
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: can potentially bad happen. I remember one time I was
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: in a taxi and I was driving and the window
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: was getting me halfway down. I typically say have your
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: windows up as high as you can, but it was
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: a really hot day, so I had it down a
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: little bit and I was checking my phone, and I
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: noticed that the taxi driver had his phone and he
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: took it off the cradle and he put it away,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: And so I was thinking, I think we're about to
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: go through a bad neighborhood or someplace where there's maybe
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: like smashing grabs or something like that, and so I
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: put my phone away. You know, you know so, but
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: if you're not paying attention, have your eyes open, you
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: may not see some of those things.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: And then when I think the next the next thing
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: is and it's not at all to make people concerned,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: but things can go paar shape, They can really go
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: go bad.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: I know that most of the world those things don't occur,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: But what are some of the kind of standard operating
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: procedures for if someone has a really bad car accident. Yeah,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: how what should their interface be with with like the
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: US embassy or the consular office. Should they call if
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: there's been a really bad accident preemptively? Should they send
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: an email? What should be the procedure around bad medical,
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: bad accident conflict of some sort?
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: What what are some of your pieces of advice around that?
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 2: Well? I think, first of all, you know, I'm a
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: big proponent of individuals preparing themselves the best that they can.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: So if there's available medical training that you can receive,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: or defensive training that you can receive, that's just good
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: to have, period. And no matter what, you don't ever
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: plan to be in a situation where those skills may
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: be called upon for yourself, for others or loved ones.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: So having that ready is is going to be your
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: first piece to be able to deal with the situation
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: because you may be so far away from being able
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: to to to get to help.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, don't have your medical kit at the bottom of
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: the pile.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah the truck. Make it accessible, and don't let the
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: first time you open it when there's an emergency know
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: how to use that kit. There's just a lot of
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: resources available. It's just a matter of you know, you
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: may be prioritizing that you want to get some medical training.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: We get, we get a lot of training, and we
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: give training to others on you know, how to deal
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: with you know, massive bleeding and airways and respirations, basically
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: techniques that fall under the system called MARCH that helps
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: keep people alive in traumatic situations. So I'm not, you know,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: a medic I don't, you know, have advanced training, but
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: I have enough training where you know, potentially I could
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: help sustain life until we can get someone to help.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: So empowering yourself through gaining that training, I think that's
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: the first piece. And then if you are to that situation,
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: you know, as calm as you can be, I think
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 2: is key because a lot of times the solutions may
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: be right in front of you. You should be aware
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: of your abilities to deal with certain situations, and if
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: you have others around you, you know, work as a team,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: whether it's a security situation or a medical type situation.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: If you are the victim of a crime though or
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: a medical situation, you should inform someone from the embassy
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: about what happened, what has happened to you, and you
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: know you could send an email like I talked about,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: but you know, you could also call and direct there's
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: actual emergency situation and typically there is a person on
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: duty that can help talk you through the situation situation
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: that you're in and they can help either advise you
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: or direct proper resources to you. So you know, they
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: may not be able to come out to you to
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: personally assist you, and then that might not even be
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: their skill set, but they could say, hey, there's a
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: there's a good hospital in the area that can help
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: treat you, and you know, they can maybe connect you
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: to that person. Stuff happens all the time, and you know,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: an other posts I've been at there's been situations where
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: people have even you know, they've they've died and families
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: had to learn how to deal with that situation. And
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: so you know, I give the push for American Citizens
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: and Services under our concert section. You know, it's kind
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: of as a thankless job a lot of times, and
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: they deal with a lot of issues every every day.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: And making those communications if something significant has happened, Initiating
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: those communications as early as possible is critical because let's
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: say you've been in a car accident and you're you're
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: high on adrenaline, and you know people are injured, the
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: vehicle's damaged, You're gonna want to reach out as soon
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: as possible because you may realize all my phone's been
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: damaged and it won't charge, and or you know, the
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: vehicle caught fire, I don't actually have a cord, or
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: the battery, or or maybe something escalates with local law
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: enforcement where you're not going to be able to have
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: that opportunity to make the phone call, So you want
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: to make those You want to make those communications as
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: soon as something significant has happened. As soon as you
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: stabilized people, you know, kind of triaged a little bit,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: You definitely want to let folks know as soon as
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: you can, just so that somebody is aware. And maybe
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: that's just even on the inReach that it's just like, hey,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: just had an accident.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: This is where I'm at.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Just to let people know what's going on because of
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: something something happens, it's a way that at least they'll
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: know where you are approximately. You know. The other thing
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: that can happen too, is you can be it's potential
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: for travelers to be to subject to theft and to
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: violent crimes. Generally, What is the recommendation if if someone
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: is trying to rob you, what do you guys recommend
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: around those kinds of scenarios.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean usually if someone is attempting to take
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: something from you by force, they may already have the
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: jump on you. And what I could say is, if
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: at all possible, right to not show resistance. They're typically
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: in complied because they're they're typically coming after something financial
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: that you have, like a phone or some money. You
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: can just kind of give that up right away and
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: and they they you have. You have to kind of
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: consider that that person that's trying to take something from you,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: they're at a heightened state and they're anxious, and you
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: wouldn't want to do anything that would set that person off.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: If you can just provide something the phone or whatever
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: they possibly want, that they may just go away and
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: and and then not bother you any longer. I I
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: think that there are some situations when if someone was
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: trying to, you know, kidnap you or something like that
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: and take you away, that may be a situation where
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: you must know your abilities as well. But that may
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: be a situation where it's appropriate for you to try
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: to fight back or try to escape. Sometimes we're just
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: in situations where we have no option.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: And I've heard that as well. If you're in a
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: group and someone's attempting to kidnap any number of any
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: any people of the group, it's that's usually the one
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: scenario where you're better off. Everybody knows that because usually
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: they usually nobody survives that.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 2: I will go back though, too, and in general practice
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: with planning. So if you on your own decide to
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: walk down a dark alley in an unknown part of town,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: you know, had you stuck by your rules, which were
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: always at least with a group or multiple people, I'm
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 2: going to only go into places that I know about.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: You've not eliminated some potential issue that you, you know,
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: maybe later found yourself into. So I I think that
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: you know, we can find ways to, you know, make
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: ourselves a lot safer, just through general practice.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, daytime, known locations, and these things happen so rarely,
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: but it is important to talk about that. You don't
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: want to try to be a hero unless you have
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: to be, and there are very few scenarios where you
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: have to be. You're better off giving them the wallet,
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: give them the watch, you know, don't don't try to
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: fight back, because that could be just enough delay that
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: they choose to take violence into their own hands.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, even even myself with some training as a
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: federal officer, if someone has the drop on me, I mean,
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be real about my ability to counter
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: that issue. And so if if there's a if there's
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: a if there's a higher possibility that I just give
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: them right what they want and they won't hurt me
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: even if I'm ready to go, that's a better situation
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 2: in my mind, because I go home at the end
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: of the day and anything that you know, material, I
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: can replace.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 1: You know, No, that's really good advice. We're getting closer
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: to the end here. We're not going to be able
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: to hit all of the questions. We may have to
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: have a part two, which would be really fun. But
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: and I'll be back. So I do like to always
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 1: ask about favorite books. And I know that you enjoy
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: reading yourself, So what are a couple of your favorite
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: books that you'd recommend?
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: So I have a personal connection to some of these books.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: But so one of them that was it was a
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: gift from my wife when we first got here, to
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: to Kenya's this book called Surfing. What surfing taught me
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: about love life and catching the perfect wave. So the
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: reason I like this book is that it's about a
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: journalist that goes on this journey and he literally wants
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: to learn how to surf, and he goes through different,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: you know, challenges and struggles as he's learning to surf.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: To surfing is hard to first learn, and I learned
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 2: years ago, and it's therapeutic in many ways. The book.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: Also it's based in Baja California, which is a place
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: that I love and that I lived for many years
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: and did you know, a lot of great things for me.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: Another one that I really liked it it's about these
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: three contractors, American contractors that they were kidnapped by the
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: FARC in Colombia for like five years, and it's called
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: Out of Captivity One nine hundred and six sixty seven
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: Days in the Columbian Jungle. I just really enjoy this
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 2: book because I always wonder about what I would do
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: if I was in some sort of stressful situation. And
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: I lived in Columbia years ago and it was a
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: great place to be, So that that's one that was
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: always kind of hard to put down.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: I've never heard of that one that one sounds really good.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: I got to give you the copy.
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: Of Absolutely, I'll do that. I'll do that well. I
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: appreciate I appreciate those those pieces of feedback. And then
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: if you were if you were just to give some
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: a couple pieces of advice to a new overlander kind
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: of what would be based upon all of your travel
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: experiences around the world, living around the world, what's a
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: what's a piece of advice or too that you would
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: give to someone that was new to it.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 2: I would say, don't be intimidated by the idea of
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: traveling abroad overseas. There's a lot of people that have
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: done it. There's ways to do it, and I think
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: that there there's the opportunity of amazing experiences that you're
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: missing out on by not doing it. There's different formulas
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: to get to that same place, though, So I mean,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: I I totally admire folks that are able to get
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 2: in a vehicle and go and live abroad. In fact,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: I have a body that's doing it right now. But
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: you know that may not be the right formula for me.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: And so my opportunity was to work for the US
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: government living abroad, and it's been fantastic it's it's given
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: me opportunities to go to other places to have a
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: kind of a stable home environment, but also be abroad.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: And so it's just one of those things where if
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: you're seeking it out, you could probably find an opportunity
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: there to achieve your goals, your dreams. And it may
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 2: not be in the traditional sense of what you're seeing
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: on the Instagram or you know, and.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: It's certainly not a competition. There is no right way
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: to do it. There's no wrong way to do it.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: Everybody has their own journey that they're on, and it's
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: important to remember that we should honor what we want
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: to achieve and what our partner and what our travel
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: companions want to achieve and kind of to hell with whatever,
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: you know, some podcasts.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: No worries. I mean, it's I I've learned so much
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: actually from from listening to your podcast. I mean, it's
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: been a it's it's helped guided me, especially with my
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: you know, my truck build and different ideas. So, you know,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: I just really appreciate you know, you getting that information
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: out there in the journal as well, you know.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: And JJ, thank you for your service to our country.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you for the service that you have provided to
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: so many travelers, to dignitaries, to really important people that
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: have traveled around the world on behalf of our government
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: and otherwise that you've provided safety and security for It
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: means a lot what you do. And I've already learned
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: so much from our conversations, and I know that our
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: listeners are already learning from what we talked about today.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: So thank you.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: We'll plan on a round two, all right.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: Thank you sound great, thank you, thank you, thank you
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: all for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.