Latest / Common Mystics / 146: Murder in the Red Light District of Winona, MN

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146: Murder in the Red Light District of Winona, MN · Common Mystics

• 0:10
  Speaker A: On this episode of Common Mystics, we step into the shadowy underbelly of Mississippi river towns to unravel the chilling story of a man gunned down outside a saloon in a city steeped in scandal. Jennifer. I'm Jennifer James.
• 0:27
  Speaker B: I'm Jill Stanley.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: We're psychics.
• 0:29
  Speaker B: We're sisters.
• 0:30
  Speaker A: We are common mystics. We find extraordinary stories in ordinary places. And today's story takes us to Winona, Minnesota.
• 0:40
  Speaker B: That's right, Jennifer. And tell everyone what we did before we got to Winona.
• 0:45
  Speaker A: What did we do? We picked up Jenny B.
• 0:47
  Speaker B: That's right.
• 0:49
  Speaker A: We picked up our friend Jenny B. And we headed to Minnesota.
• 0:52
  Speaker B: Yes. And she was alongside us and an active participant in finding a verifiable story previously unknown to us that give voice to the voiceless.
• 1:02
  Speaker A: Exactly. Well done, Jill.
• 1:04
  Speaker B: Thank you. So what were some of the hits we were picking up in the car?
• 1:08
  Speaker A: Well, first of all, we were all pulled to Winona.
• 1:11
  Speaker B: That's true.
• 1:11
  Speaker A: And that's significant.
• 1:13
  Speaker B: That is significant.
• 1:13
  Speaker A: The fact that all of us were like, no, no, we have to go there.
• 1:16
  Speaker B: We originally were headed to Rochester is what we put in the gps. But then we stopped along the way and corrected course. Winona.
• 1:25
  Speaker A: Correct. So Jenny was feeling dried up water.
• 1:30
  Speaker B: Yes. Land that was once covered with water.
• 1:33
  Speaker A: Yes. And you were feeling a lot of things. Talk me through that.
• 1:36
  Speaker B: I was feeling transportation and industry drawn by the t. Transportation driven by transportation. You know what I mean?
• 1:44
  Speaker A: I know exactly what you mean, yes.
• 1:45
  Speaker B: Feeling me.
• 1:46
  Speaker A: I'm feeling you, dog.
• 1:47
  Speaker B: Okay. What were you feeling?
• 1:51
  Speaker A: Railroad moving goods along the river.
• 1:54
  Speaker B: So you and I were in agreement.
• 1:55
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 1:56
  Speaker B: We were on the same page in that place. Okay. I was feeling old timey minors, like giving me wild west vibes. Right.
• 2:06
  Speaker A: And what else?
• 2:07
  Speaker B: You know the type. I was. I was questioning why people would be drawn to Winona.
• 2:13
  Speaker A: Like.
• 2:14
  Speaker B: Right. And I think we were all feeling that there was some party vibes going on. I don't just feel like it was me.
• 2:21
  Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
• 2:23
  Speaker B: We were looking for a good time.
• 2:25
  Speaker A: It felt like people came there to look for a good time.
• 2:28
  Speaker B: And. And. And so did we. We had a good time there.
• 2:31
  Speaker A: Yes, we did. We enjoyed Winona. We got there. When we arrived, we see these giant,
• 2:38
  Speaker B: great big silos near the railroad tracks that was parallel with. With the Mississippi River.
• 2:44
  Speaker A: Right. So to me, that's kind of validation that we are exactly where we need to be. Right. It's almost like a breadcrumb because we were picking up on industry and the river and the railroad, and it all came together right there.
• 2:56
  Speaker B: And what were you feeling?
• 2:58
  Speaker A: Family business. Like a family business that's owned and operated.
• 3:03
  Speaker B: I can. I see what you're saying. I see what you're saying. And Jenny, in her mind's eye, she kept seeing. Seeing people, like, on porches. I don't want to say loitering, but, like, chilling there and people driving by or passing by. And these people that are on the porches are kind of, like, looking at them. And the people driving by are looking at the people on the porches. Yes, they were. And that's what she described.
• 3:27
  Speaker A: Right. And I also had the distinct impression of being shot in the back of the head.
• 3:34
  Speaker B: That's never a good distinct impression.
• 3:36
  Speaker A: In fact, didn't I have a dream about it?
• 3:38
  Speaker B: No, that. No.
• 3:40
  Speaker A: Oh, that's a different story.
• 3:41
  Speaker B: That was, like, three stories ago.
• 3:43
  Speaker A: Oh, okay. Forget it.
• 3:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, but you were naming presidents that were assassinated. Like, you couldn't get off the presidential historical train. You're all, like, in JFK and Garfield
• 3:52
  Speaker A: and this one and that one. All right, that's enough. That's enough. So where do we go from here?
• 3:57
  Speaker B: Jill, I would love for you to tell me the history of Winona, Minnesota.
• 4:02
  Speaker A: Oh, well, let's dive in, shall we?
• 4:04
  Speaker B: We shall.
• 4:06
  Speaker A: Long before European settlement, the area that would become Winona, Minnesota, was home to the Dakota Sioux people, particularly the Wahpeaton band. I have no idea if I'm saying that right. In fact, I'm probably not. W, A H P E T O N Wapiton.
• 4:27
  Speaker B: We apologize to anyone.
• 4:29
  Speaker A: We are insulting.
• 4:31
  Speaker B: Insulting. Yep.
• 4:32
  Speaker A: Yes. The Mississippi River Valley provided so many resources for the people who lived there. It was fertile hunting area and fertile fishing grounds. Wild rice was harvested there. And also trade routes, of course, connecting the different tribes across the region. Then the city's name, Winona, actually comes from a Dakota word meaning firstborn daughter.
• 5:02
  Speaker B: It's pretty.
• 5:03
  Speaker A: It's beautiful. Now, early European exploration started in the 1600s and 1700s. The French explorers were there first, Jill. In terms of the European peoples, I knew that the French came in and they were really into furniture. They were big fur people, the French. And they were the first Europeans to travel through the region in the 1600s. And it was during that time that the Mississippi river became a major fur trade corridor. A lot of beaver skins, beaver skin hats, beaver coats.
• 5:44
  Speaker B: Just getting inappropriate.
• 5:45
  Speaker A: What? It's not just getting inappropriate, Jill. Keep it out of the gutter. French voyagers traded goods for pelts with the Dakota, and also temporary trading posts were dotting the riverbanks all over the place. But then Something major happened that would change everything.
• 6:07
  Speaker B: I can't wait for you to tell me.
• 6:09
  Speaker A: In the middle of the 1700s, there was a global power struggle that would shake up the continent forever and leave a lasting impact on the development of the Mississippi river towns.
• 6:22
  Speaker B: Tell me everything right now.
• 6:23
  Speaker A: Okay, so at the time, we had some major global players and they were Britain, France.
• 6:30
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 6:31
  Speaker A: Prussia and Austria.
• 6:34
  Speaker B: Got you. Got you.
• 6:35
  Speaker A: And they were all competing for land and trade routes and global dominance, basically. And in fact, basically, the first real World war started then, but it came to be known as the Seven Years War. And it started in 1756 and ended in 1763.
• 6:57
  Speaker B: So what happened? What about this conflict?
• 7:00
  Speaker A: Well, in 1756, conflict occurred across continents, in Europe, in India, and in North America, where, by the way, the conflict was named the French and Indian War.
• 7:10
  Speaker B: I know that one.
• 7:12
  Speaker A: Yes. In North America, the central rivalry was of course, between Britain and France and their Native American alliances on both sides. Hence the French and Indian War. But during the war, Britain gained momentum and was the clear victor. Britain captured Canada from France and expanded their influence in India and basically dominated in naval battles. And so the whole war, the Seven Years War, ended with the Treaty of Paris in 1763. And the key outcomes were that Britain gained massive territories all over the globe and France lost most of its overseas colonies. But here's the thing. After the Seven Years War, guess who was deep in debt?
• 8:03
  Speaker B: They overspent themselves.
• 8:04
  Speaker A: Yes, they did.
• 8:06
  Speaker B: It was Britain.
• 8:06
  Speaker A: It was Britain. So they had won, but they were in trouble, like they were in deep debt. And now they have all of this global land that they're supposed to be running.
• 8:17
  Speaker B: Right.
• 8:17
  Speaker A: And they're broken. So what do they do? Who do they tax?
• 8:22
  Speaker B: They tax. Stop it. Why? Why are you doing that? I already know. They taxationed without representation, the United States colonies.
• 8:30
  Speaker A: There's your elementary education coming out.
• 8:32
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 8:33
  Speaker A: So because they were in such dire straits, because they won and had all of these global territories that they were now running, they taxed America.
• 8:46
  Speaker B: Now then Americans weren't settling for that. You remember the Tea Party? We threw the stuff over out the boat. Yes, we did.
• 8:53
  Speaker A: Yes, we did.
• 8:54
  Speaker B: Yes, we did.
• 8:54
  Speaker A: And we rowdy, we rowdy folk. It led directly to the American Revolution. But let's not forget France. Still butt hurt over the Seven Years War.
• 9:04
  Speaker B: Wouldn't you be? Wouldn't you be?
• 9:06
  Speaker A: Yes. Yes. So who did they back when you. When America was revolting?
• 9:14
  Speaker B: The little colonists? Yes, they did.
• 9:17
  Speaker A: They backed America. And so as a result, America won their independence. Thank you, France. And And. And this is that wa part. So. Yay. Yes. And now American settlement begins across the continent for white people. Now, Europeans are now moving in. Right. Like never before. And this impacts the whole continent. But, of course, the Mississippi river towns like Winona. So let's talk about Winona for a second, shall we?
• 9:47
  Speaker B: Yes, please.
• 9:48
  Speaker A: Pretty little Winona dates back to 1805. Lt. Zebulon pike left.
• 9:56
  Speaker B: Favorite name.
• 9:57
  Speaker A: I love it. Zebulon.
• 9:59
  Speaker B: Oh, my God. If you had a son, it would be Zebulon. Zebulon.
• 10:06
  Speaker A: Okay. All right, Jill. Yes. Okay. So Zebulon pike left Fort Belafontaine on August 9, 1805, with orders from the US government to explore all of these lands that were newly acquired through the Louisiana Territory purchase. And he was told to find the source of the Mississippi River. Go. Go do it. Go find where it starts. We want to know, inquiring minds, where the US Government. Go do it.
• 10:34
  Speaker B: I don't think that would have been that hard. Just keep walking along, Walking right?
• 10:37
  Speaker A: You would think. And it's going to get smaller and smaller and smaller.
• 10:40
  Speaker B: Right. Just keep to the edge.
• 10:42
  Speaker A: Keep. Anyway, so that was his job. And on September 14, 1805, as he's walking along the Mississippi river, dup de dup with probably a few friends and a donkey. I don't know how he got there, but he has a map, and on its map, it says island number 72, which would one day become Winona.
• 11:00
  Speaker B: Yay.
• 11:01
  Speaker A: And he records his impressions. This is the first time a white person, a European, records their impressions of Winona.
• 11:09
  Speaker B: What did he say?
• 11:10
  Speaker A: Well, he does talk about the legendary figure of Winona, a young Dakota woman who chose death over an unwanted suitor.
• 11:19
  Speaker B: And that is the first written documentation of that legend.
• 11:24
  Speaker A: I love that. And can we get into that now? Do we have time for that now?
• 11:28
  Speaker B: No, we do not. That's a detours.
• 11:30
  Speaker A: So we're gonna talk about that on Detours.
• 11:31
  Speaker B: That's a detour.
• 11:32
  Speaker A: Because that is a detour. That is a detour. It is also a very extreme response to a suitor. And we'll. We'll get into it later.
• 11:44
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 11:44
  Speaker A: But I wonder what was wrong with him. There had to be something, like, really wrong. But we can't get into it now.
• 11:49
  Speaker B: We cannot get into it now.
• 11:51
  Speaker A: Jennifer. I'm not wrong. Right there.
• 11:53
  Speaker B: Must be.
• 11:56
  Speaker A: All right, I wonder what it was. Maybe it was a club foot.
• 11:59
  Speaker B: Maybe he didn't shut the up. Maybe he didn't pick up what you were putting down. He just kept going back and forth, back and Forth.
• 12:08
  Speaker A: All right, let's go to 1851. In 1851, there was a agreement. I'm using bunny air quotes. Agreement called the Treaty of Traverse desert Sioux in 1851.
• 12:23
  Speaker B: Beautiful.
• 12:24
  Speaker A: In which bands of the Dakota people ceded 21 million acres of land in the Minnesota Territory and parts of present day Iowa and South Dakota to the US Government. That's a lot of land.
• 12:41
  Speaker B: It's a lot of good land too.
• 12:43
  Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. And as a result, this area was opened to vast amounts of white settlement, while the forced Dakota people were relocated to a 150 mile long, 20 mile wide reservation along the Minnesota River.
• 13:03
  Speaker B: Tell me the original settlers to this area after the land was opened up to white settlement.
• 13:10
  Speaker A: Old stock Yankees is who they were. Damn immigrants from New England. Okay, okay. So you might ask, what is a Yankee?
• 13:23
  Speaker B: I thought you just answered it. Okay, what is a Yankee? Because I've heard it like Yankee Doodle Dandy, like things like that.
• 13:30
  Speaker A: Right. It generally refers to a person from the United States, but actually its meaning changes based on the context. So it could mean any American. It could mean a northerner, specifically from New England. In the south, it's often like derogatory, like a derisive term for any northerner.
• 13:52
  Speaker B: As a matter of fact, in Prince Harry's book Spare, he refers to the United States military as the Yanks. Yeah, he was hanging out. He was helping out the Yanks.
• 14:03
  Speaker A: I have a question about the Southerners listening. Do you refer to Northerners as Yankees in like a derogatory way? Like, should we be offended?
• 14:12
  Speaker B: I'm not offended.
• 14:13
  Speaker A: I think. I mean, I'm just wondering, like. I wouldn't be offended either, but are
• 14:17
  Speaker B: we Yankees because we got Southern blood?
• 14:19
  Speaker A: I don't know. Well, we live in the quote unquote north, don't we? We're not from New England.
• 14:24
  Speaker B: We're not from New England.
• 14:25
  Speaker A: Okay, maybe we need clarity on, on the whole Yankee thing.
• 14:28
  Speaker B: I think, I think it's cute to be called a Yankee, actually. It's so American. Is it?
• 14:35
  Speaker A: It's a good dog's name. Yeah.
• 14:36
  Speaker B: Yankee. Oh my God. If you got a dog on the 4th of July and it was a golden doodle. Oh my God.
• 14:45
  Speaker A: Why are we talking about this? Cut out.
• 14:48
  Speaker B: No, Brian, leave it in.
• 14:50
  Speaker A: The population increased from 815 people in December 1855 to 3,000 in December 1856.
• 15:00
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 15:01
  Speaker A: That's one year they were running all up in here with the help of German immigrants. So the Germans showed up.
• 15:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, they were like, I hear about some land you Guys have. I'm into it.
• 15:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. And so there was a ton of land speculation, and river commerce surged. Of course it would. Winona's right on the Mississippi river.
• 15:22
  Speaker B: And you need resources. You can't just be living on the river. You need to be selling shit, you need to be getting shit, you need to be sending shit. You know what I mean?
• 15:30
  Speaker A: Well put. Winona was platted in 1851 and incorporated in 1857. And, of course, settlers came, came, they came. And they were drawn by the river access, timber resources, and agricultural potential in the surrounding bluffs and beautiful prairies.
• 15:48
  Speaker B: It literally is a beautiful place. It is.
• 15:52
  Speaker A: Winona quickly became one of the most important river towns of the upper Mississippi.
• 15:58
  Speaker B: Now, this is where it gets cool. Like, what does that mean to be, like, one of the most important river towns? I can't wait for you to describe it. Okay, it's. Tell me more. First of all, why did it boom? You kind of talked about it a little bit, but tell me more. Why did it boom?
• 16:13
  Speaker A: We're talking vast white pine forests.
• 16:16
  Speaker B: Gorge.
• 16:17
  Speaker A: Upriver in Minnesota and Wisconsin.
• 16:19
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 16:20
  Speaker A: And logs floated downriver on massive rafts, so it was easy to transport them to other areas on the Mississippi.
• 16:28
  Speaker B: Smart.
• 16:29
  Speaker A: And so then sawmills were popping up to process the timber for national markets. You see the potential here?
• 16:36
  Speaker B: Yes, I love it.
• 16:37
  Speaker A: For the economy. And by the 1870s, Winona was known as the lumber capital of the world. And millionaire lumber barons, like the Laird and Watkins families built grand homes in town.
• 16:51
  Speaker B: Some of them are still there if you ever got the opportunity. It's just gorge. Oh, my gosh.
• 16:55
  Speaker A: The riverfront bustled with mills and warehouses and steamboats. And Winona became a rail hub, too, connecting the river and inland trade through the railroad. And as railroads expanded westward, grain, lumber, and manufactured goods were shipped nationwide. And rail bridges over the Mississippi cemented its economic importance. And this transition helped Winona remain prosperous even as steamboat traffic declined.
• 17:24
  Speaker B: This growth in industry brought what, Jennifer?
• 17:26
  Speaker A: Lumberjacks flush. Flush with seasonal pay. Steamboat crews. Are they sexy?
• 17:35
  Speaker B: Nah, not like a lumberjack.
• 17:37
  Speaker A: What about railroad workers? Can you see it? Can you see it? I like them.
• 17:42
  Speaker B: I feel like railroad workers would be kind of dirty. You know what I mean? They've been working on the. Yeah, they've been working on the railroad all their live long days. No, I think if I had to rate them, if I had to, like, kill Mary Screw, it would be lumberjacks I'm marrying. I think I would screw the riverboat crew and. Yeah. And I would have to let go of the railroad workers.
• 18:06
  Speaker A: My goodness. Well, what about the grain and warehouse laborers? Cause they're also there too. Not as sexy. Not as sexy.
• 18:13
  Speaker B: Not as sexy. I think we would have to leave them out of the equation.
• 18:19
  Speaker A: I was not expecting that. Sigh.
• 18:22
  Speaker B: Well, I'm just thinking, like, they're just neighbors. There's nothing. You know what I mean?
• 18:26
  Speaker A: Sounds like a lot of men.
• 18:28
  Speaker B: It show does, doesn't it?
• 18:32
  Speaker A: Hallelujah. Okay, so with the influx of all these men, there was a need for entertainment.
• 18:41
  Speaker B: Hot damn. What you getting at?
• 18:43
  Speaker A: Saloons became the social and economic hubs where deals were made, wages spent, and tensions sometimes ignited. And by the 1870s, dozens of saloons lined Front street and Third Street. Many doubled as gambling rooms or boarding houses, and some operated 24 hours to serve river traffic.
• 19:07
  Speaker B: Ooh, what does that mean?
• 19:11
  Speaker A: What do you mean, what does that mean? Denny's. It's like the Denny's of river traffic. Okay. Breakfast all day is what it means.
• 19:21
  Speaker B: Okay. Okay. Okay.
• 19:22
  Speaker A: Okay. Okay.
• 19:23
  Speaker B: I could see that.
• 19:24
  Speaker A: Also, don't forget the immigrant population. Not only Germans, which we mentioned, but also Polish bohemian communities. And they had their own saloons. So you had different types of saloons. You had your German saloons, your Polish saloons, your bohemian saloon.
• 19:39
  Speaker B: It sounds like a little bit of Chicago.
• 19:41
  Speaker A: It does. It does.
• 19:42
  Speaker B: I love it.
• 19:43
  Speaker A: And the saloons weren't just a place to drink cultural hubs. They were. They were hiring halls, political spaces, music and dance venues.
• 19:53
  Speaker B: Yes. You can see, literally there are Polish pubs around Chicago. I wandered into one one time, just. I didn't know it was. Everything was red and white, so it should have tipped me off. And they weren't really welcoming. They were like. What?
• 20:05
  Speaker A: What? Well, you don't. You don't look Polish. You don't speak Polish.
• 20:08
  Speaker B: I don't speak Polish. I kind of look. I'm a big white girl. I. I kind of look Polish.
• 20:12
  Speaker A: I don't know. There are big white girls all over northern Europe, not just in Poland.
• 20:20
  Speaker B: That's true.
• 20:22
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:22
  Speaker B: But I wouldn't exclude me.
• 20:24
  Speaker A: No. Well, I'm sorry those Polish drinkers were mean to you.
• 20:27
  Speaker B: They were mean, and they had their kids there.
• 20:30
  Speaker A: Isn't that our family bar? Are you talking about our cousin Hank?
• 20:34
  Speaker B: No, it was a bar in Harlem just south of 63rd Street. And there are, like, kids there. Like, it wasn't just, like, a bar. Like, it was a bar, but it literally was like. Like a family gathering kind of place.
• 20:46
  Speaker A: Okay, I can see it. Yeah, I can see it.
• 20:49
  Speaker B: That's why I bring it. Up. Because it's just like what you described.
• 20:51
  Speaker A: Okay, all right. But with all of these gentlemen and their saloons where they got together. Winona also had violence and vice.
• 21:05
  Speaker B: Oh, Winona, you dirty. Like, dirty, girl. You dirty.
• 21:09
  Speaker A: There were knife and gun fights, gambling rings, prostitution upstairs in the saloons or sometimes nearby, just down the street. And newspaper archives from the late 1800s regularly mentioned saloon raids, brawls, and the liquor violations.
• 21:29
  Speaker B: Damn.
• 21:31
  Speaker A: Now, Winona had a notable red light district.
• 21:37
  Speaker B: What does that mean? I think I know what it means, but tell me.
• 21:40
  Speaker A: Well, what it means is that there was a collection of brothels in Winona. That's what it means. You know, when Sting screams, roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light. He's talking about, like, the red light and like the. The, like, red light district. You don't have to put on the red light.
• 22:01
  Speaker B: No, I know that. But, like, you don't have to wear that dress tonight. I always thought the red light was a red dress.
• 22:08
  Speaker A: Okay, we're going to have to check the lyrics.
• 22:10
  Speaker B: Okay. Anyway.
• 22:10
  Speaker A: Anyway. Anyway. But it's. It's red and it's bad if you're.
• 22:15
  Speaker B: It sounds like Madison Avenue in Forest Park. That's what this sounds like to me.
• 22:20
  Speaker A: I don't think there are any brothels on Madison Avenue.
• 22:23
  Speaker B: You don't know?
• 22:24
  Speaker A: I don't know Was the last.
• 22:25
  Speaker B: I'm kidding. I don't know. But there is a line of bars, notably on Madison Avenue in Forest Park.
• 22:32
  Speaker A: Yes, There. There are still. Yes. And good for them.
• 22:36
  Speaker B: Why not? Why not?
• 22:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. So little Wonona. Who knew? Red light district and Winona's vice district clustered near the riverfront and rail lines where the transient men were arriving with cash.
• 22:52
  Speaker B: How convenient.
• 22:53
  Speaker A: You know, what else are they going to do with their money? They're young men with a lot of cash.
• 23:00
  Speaker B: And they don't live there.
• 23:01
  Speaker A: They don't live there. They're just.
• 23:03
  Speaker B: They don't live through. They get hoes in different area codes.
• 23:05
  Speaker A: What?
• 23:07
  Speaker B: Just along the river. They were rolling.
• 23:10
  Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. Winona's vice district included parts of Second street by the warehouses and the depots.
• 23:19
  Speaker B: That's where we were.
• 23:21
  Speaker A: That's where we were.
• 23:22
  Speaker B: That's where we were.
• 23:23
  Speaker A: And the women who work the brothels would stand outside and whistle at men.
• 23:32
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 23:32
  Speaker A: Oh, my God.
• 23:34
  Speaker B: That's the equivalent to, hey, baby, you want to date?
• 23:37
  Speaker A: I would be a terrible sex worker. I'm just saying, I am so bad at sales. Like, I hate.
• 23:46
  Speaker B: Is that. Why is that? Why is that why you would be
• 23:50
  Speaker A: a terrible sex worker.
• 23:51
  Speaker B: Yes, Jill.
• 23:52
  Speaker A: Yes. Okay.
• 23:53
  Speaker B: Okay. Well, I have my reasons. Why I would be a terrible sex worker has nothing to do with my sales ability.
• 24:00
  Speaker A: If you are standing outside a brothel whistling at men, is that considered inside sales or outside sales?
• 24:07
  Speaker B: That is definitely outside sales.
• 24:09
  Speaker A: Okay. I knew you'd know.
• 24:11
  Speaker B: Yeah, I do know outside sales. All right.
• 24:13
  Speaker A: Thank you for that. So, yeah. And these districts were intentionally segregated from the elite residential neighborhoods.
• 24:20
  Speaker B: Of course.
• 24:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, they were.
• 24:21
  Speaker B: I mean, but you know what?
• 24:22
  Speaker A: They were tolerated because they brought in money for economic reasons. But don't you think there are also some of those rich residential people who are going in the back door? All right. The red light district was so pervasive, it even led to modern day housing laws in Winona.
• 24:44
  Speaker B: It really does today.
• 24:46
  Speaker A: Tell me how.
• 24:46
  Speaker B: No, no, no. You have to tell me. But even today, Jennifer, today, because of these red light districts, the laws on the books still reflect what was happening. You dirty, dirty dog, Winona. You dirty, dirty dog.
• 24:59
  Speaker A: The town was a saloon and brothel town since the 1800s, according to the archives in the Winona History Museum. And the town endured 60 years of lawless attitudes and actions before bringing it to an end in 1942. After the final raid in 1942, the houses were padlocked for a year, and all the buildings now are either gone or have become modern day bars or houses where families live. Today, Winona has strict housing laws like the 30% rule. And how many people who can live in a house due to licensing? The 30% rule states that no city block can be comprised of more than 30% rental houses. And that's because of the brothels. So a brothel would have a lot of people living in it, A lot of women.
• 25:45
  Speaker B: Right, Right.
• 25:45
  Speaker A: Gotcha. Gotcha. Wow.
• 25:47
  Speaker B: Think of the best little whorehouse in Texas.
• 25:49
  Speaker A: I love that movie. Dolly is everything.
• 25:52
  Speaker B: I mean, I love Dolly. Anyway. So, Jennifer, a lot's happening in the early days of Winona, but can you take me to the night of the incidents that we are focusing on?
• 26:03
  Speaker A: Well, I just can't wait. Yay. The incident happened in the summer of 1879 in Winona, Minnesota, a booming Mississippi river town. Prosperous, busy, growing fast on lumber, railroads, and trade. But she had its other side.
• 26:23
  Speaker B: Mm. Most women do.
• 26:26
  Speaker A: The saloons lined the streets near the waterfront, and brothels operated with a kind of easy tolerance. There was gambling, there was drinking, late night dealings, and they were just part of the ecosystem of the town. And among the figures moving through that world was a woman known as French Lou Reynolds. Identified in historical accounts as a madam operating in the district. French Lou. Remember her? She comes up again.
• 26:54
  Speaker B: She's important.
• 26:57
  Speaker A: Now, near the scene stood a saloon named Parrhesia's Saloon, a known gathering place in that part of town. Now, I will tell you this. I had to look up the name Parisius.
• 27:11
  Speaker B: What made you look it up?
• 27:12
  Speaker A: Well, because it's such an unusual name.
• 27:16
  Speaker B: Sounds Greek or something.
• 27:17
  Speaker A: It is Greek, and it actually, in Greek, it means frank or bold speech and implies a power dynamic whereby a subordinate speaks boldly to a person in power at personal risk of being punished by telling the truth.
• 27:33
  Speaker B: Damn. Yeah, it's like rage against the machine.
• 27:36
  Speaker A: Parrhesia Saloon, Right. Owned by a Mrs. P. Parrhesias. Now, on the night in question, in the summer of 1879, there was a man named James Malone, and he was present at the saloon.
• 27:56
  Speaker B: He was just chilling, kicking it. Just a night out.
• 27:59
  Speaker A: You think so?
• 28:00
  Speaker B: I know so. That's what I would be doing.
• 28:03
  Speaker A: Also present or nearby were individuals connected with French Lou's circle, including women associated with her establishment. And among the men moving through the environment was a man named Charles Richmond. Now, at some point during the evening, a dispute began. The exact cause of the dispute is not clearly documented in surviving summaries, but based on the context of the people involved, historians suggest that it likely centered on something like a personal conflict or money. Or you. Jill found something about relationships tied to the women in the district.
• 28:46
  Speaker B: I read that James was making fun of the way the women looked. Ooh.
• 28:52
  Speaker A: James Malone was making fun of the way. Okay.
• 28:54
  Speaker B: Either their physical appearance or how they were dressed. Either way, that's wrong. James.
• 28:58
  Speaker A: Looks like either way, that's wrong.
• 28:59
  Speaker B: You don't do that. You don't do that. You don't do that. I mean, if you're gonna do it, you're gonna do it later with your sister. You call her on FaceTime, and then you talk your shit. That's respectable. But you don't do that in public.
• 29:08
  Speaker A: You don't hurt them.
• 29:10
  Speaker B: You're not trying to hurt anybody.
• 29:12
  Speaker A: No. Well, he. We don't know exactly what the disagreement was about, but it definitely escalated. And there outside the saloon, with witnesses present, Charles Richmond shot James Malone. Malone was mortally wounded and died shortly after. Now, authorities responded, and Richmond was arrested and charged with murder. The case went to trial, and in the courtroom, the outcome seemed straightforward, because the testimony that was sworn in was that Richmond used French Lou's gun to shoot Malone. That's what was presumed to be true at the time. And it seemed open and closed. And so Charles Richmond was convicted of manslaughter in the second degree after some deliberation. Now, manslaughter in the second degree is kind of a mild conviction for homicide. Right.
• 30:19
  Speaker B: What it's saying is, is that you didn't necessarily intend on killing someone.
• 30:25
  Speaker A: Right. You caused their death, you're responsible. But because of your. You were reckless or because you were negligent, not because you intentionally planned to murder them.
• 30:36
  Speaker B: Exactly.
• 30:36
  Speaker A: So good news, bad news. Poor Charles Rickman. He is convicted.
• 30:40
  Speaker B: Well, I mean, if he killed James, it's not James.
• 30:45
  Speaker A: Charles.
• 30:45
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's not poor Charles.
• 30:47
  Speaker A: It's true. True.
• 30:48
  Speaker B: You killed James. So that's.
• 30:49
  Speaker A: Okay, I see your point. I see your point. But there's more. Okay. Despite. Despite the conviction, Richmond was later released about a year later. Now, the exact mechanism of his release is not clearly preserved in widely available summaries of the case. However, within the context of 19th century criminal proceedings, there are several factors at play. Witness testimony, credibility issues, especially when people were drinking in the saloons, and the secrecy surrounding what goes on in brothels. Right. But, Jill.
• 31:29
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 31:29
  Speaker A: I was able to find the article that you could not read.
• 31:33
  Speaker B: I could not read that article, and not because of my dyslexia. It's because that shit was faded and little, and I could not read it.
• 31:39
  Speaker A: Well, guess what I was able to do.
• 31:41
  Speaker B: Shut up, Jennifer.
• 31:42
  Speaker A: I was able to read a lot of it, and I still have a headache from trying to figure it out. I had to, like, put it on a certain, like, largeness and then, like, step back from my computer and, like, I shook my head back and forth and I got a lot of it. And, Jill, what I found. You don't even know.
• 31:59
  Speaker B: I can't.
• 32:00
  Speaker A: You do not even know you.
• 32:02
  Speaker B: I. Tell me. Okay, well, to be honest. To be completely honest, in newspapers dot com, before you download it, it's easier to read for some reason.
• 32:12
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 32:14
  Speaker B: So I bet you I know some of it, but I lost it over time after I downloaded it because I couldn't find it again. Okay, go on, go on, go on.
• 32:21
  Speaker A: Okay. So Charles Richmond.
• 32:24
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 32:25
  Speaker A: Okay. He. Let me just say he was. We don't know a lot about him, but he was young and he had respectable relations.
• 32:32
  Speaker B: Ooh.
• 32:33
  Speaker A: And that the. The newspapers made, like, notable. It was notable that this guy had respectable relations. So keep that in mind.
• 32:41
  Speaker B: Okay. That means he comes from. From good people.
• 32:45
  Speaker A: Yes, he comes from good people. And he probably has support of good people.
• 32:49
  Speaker B: Oh, absolutely.
• 32:50
  Speaker A: Right. Okay, so after Richmond is convicted, his Lawyer knows it's bogus and they don't stop trying to appeal after appeal after appeal. And it is a year later. And after a year, we have 12 witnesses, all come forward because this attorney has been working on it, because he knows this is bullshit. Okay? And a year later, in the Winona Daily Republican. September 15, 1880, the Winona Daily Republican indicates that there was a conspiracy surrounding the conviction of Richmond.
• 33:31
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 33:32
  Speaker A: Based on the new testimony. And. And it's based on the testimony of a woman named Alice Richards and others, but hers was very pivotal.
• 33:43
  Speaker B: Now, it was my understanding. Tell me if I'm wrong or not. She was run of French Lou's girls.
• 33:49
  Speaker A: It doesn't say that in the paper. What it does say was that on the day in question, July 27, 1879, Alice Richards and French Lou were in the company of two men, Ed Lawler and Charles Richmond. And they were at French Lou's house. So they were basically at the brothel and it was like a double date. A double date at the brothel. Okay. And they left around 5pm to go hit the saloons. So they stopped at different saloons along the way. They were doing a bar crawl.
• 34:23
  Speaker B: I mean, a pub crawl.
• 34:24
  Speaker A: Yeah. Why not a pub crawl? Exactly.
• 34:26
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:26
  Speaker A: And so they stopped at different places. And Alice says they were drinking the whole time. Every time they stopped, they had beer. That a girl. Then they stopped at the Parrhesia Saloon between 8 and 9pm and Alice said that she was close to Charles Richmond the entire time. She sat next to him in the carriage. She was with him in the saloon. He was probably her date, is what. That's what it sounds like. Yeah.
• 34:51
  Speaker B: Okay. Yes. Yes.
• 34:52
  Speaker A: And on the end, French Lou and Ed Lawler were kind of like. Seems like they were the two. The couple. Okay.
• 34:58
  Speaker B: They were cozening up.
• 34:58
  Speaker A: They were cozen up.
• 34:59
  Speaker B: Right.
• 35:00
  Speaker A: So she said at no time was there an opportunity for French Lou to give her pistol to Richmond. Because, remember, the testimony that convicted him was that he showed shot Malone with French French pistol. Pistol, yes. In fact, Alice says she didn't know a thing. She had never heard the story about French Lou giving Richmond her pistol until the day after the shooting when Lou told Alice that she was going to testify that she put her pistol in Richmond's pocket because she had it like in her corset. And it was heavy. And it was heavy. And because her dress didn't have a pocket. And so she put it in his pocket.
• 35:40
  Speaker B: And.
• 35:41
  Speaker A: And Alice is like, that didn't happen. And French Lou is like, well, that's what I'm gonna swear. French Lou.
• 35:47
  Speaker B: Why you do them like that?
• 35:49
  Speaker A: So when the party of four, Ed Lawler with French Lou, they're a couple. And Alice Richards and Charles Richmond. When their party of four gets to the Parrhesia Saloon, there already is James Malone and other people. One of them is Mr. Parrhesias, the owner is there, and a man named Adams. Okay, so now there are other people. The four come in, they order more beer. Malone and others are having a conversation, and Richman is sitting at a table, and he pulls out his pistol and puts it on the table. And Ed Lawler pulls out his pistol and puts it on the table. And by the way, Alice was like, you know who had French Lou's pistol? It was Ed Lawlor. He was holding her pistol. What? Yes, but then the girls were like, put your pistols away, boys.
• 36:40
  Speaker B: Well, that would make more sense because if she was cozying up to Ed Lala.
• 36:43
  Speaker A: Yes, Ed Lawler had her pistol. And this is what Alice is saying a year later. Okay, so they. I mean, what, like, what a dick move, right? Like, to sit down and be like, here's. Here's the heat I'm carrying. And, like, put it right on the table. Because the girls. The girls told them, put your pistols away, guys. So they put them back away.
• 37:02
  Speaker B: This is a different time in a different place. Like, so I can't even. I mean, being from Michigan and having the, like, the concealed carry, like, I can see someone, like, flashing their pistols. You know what I mean?
• 37:15
  Speaker A: Well, they were essentially flashing their pistols because just then, French Lou and Malone get into a heated argument and start throwing beer at each other. French Lou and Malone are throwing beer at each other.
• 37:32
  Speaker B: I bet she was the girl he said was ugly.
• 37:35
  Speaker A: Alice sees Ed Lawler witness this confrontation, and he's standing at the bar at the time. And she sees Lou take the pistol out of his pocket again.
• 37:46
  Speaker B: Yes, okay.
• 37:47
  Speaker A: And he's pointing it.
• 37:48
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 37:49
  Speaker A: Okay. For a few minutes, watching French Lou and Malone throw beer at each other and get into this heated argument. All the while, Malone is shouting at French Lou. Then Richman, Charles Richman and Malone start getting into it, resulting in Richmond striking Malone and Malone throwing a beer glass in his face.
• 38:12
  Speaker B: Damn.
• 38:14
  Speaker A: Malone runs outside. So he throws a beer glass at Richmond's face and then turns around and runs outside and. And Richmond and Ed Lawler follow him right out. Okay, okay. Then Alice says, I didn't follow him out, but I heard two shots. But there was another testimony that came out around this time. Of the Adams guy who says he saw Richmond. He, like, followed after them and Richmond. He saw Richmond, Lawlor and Malone as they ran out into the garden and saw Lawlor fire the two shots. After the murder, the whole party goes back to French Lou's house. So they, like, leave and go back to French Lou's. And then Lou starts to craft a story about how she gave Richmond her gun when she never did because she was trying to protect Ed. Not only that, she gets on her horse and she starts riding around town offering to pay other people a hundred dollars if they swear to her story.
• 39:16
  Speaker B: Damn.
• 39:17
  Speaker A: And so it was those people who were paid for their false testimony that ended up convicting poor Richmond of the murder.
• 39:25
  Speaker B: They all in trouble. They all should be in trouble.
• 39:28
  Speaker A: What do you think of that?
• 39:30
  Speaker B: I love it. I love the excitement. I just like why I get her liking Ed Lawler. But, like, why are you gonna do that to Richmond? Like, you know what I mean?
• 39:43
  Speaker A: I mean, I can't speak for French Lou.
• 39:46
  Speaker B: They're lovers, probably.
• 39:48
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think they're obviously lovers. Whether or not they had a deeper relationship, I don't know.
• 39:55
  Speaker B: What's really messed up is that French Lou shouldn't have been so confrontational. Yeah, she started it.
• 40:02
  Speaker A: Well, she and Malone. We don't know what Malone said to
• 40:04
  Speaker B: her, but he probably called her ugly or skanky or probably like big pimping, whatever, right?
• 40:10
  Speaker A: Anyway, so that's what really happened. So knowing that now, who do you think is the voiceless? Because you originally. Who did you originally think was the voiceless? Before I was able to read that
• 40:19
  Speaker B: article, I still think James Malone really is ideal.
• 40:24
  Speaker A: The one who threw beer on French Loo and threw a glass at Richmond's face.
• 40:30
  Speaker B: There is still no one doing time for that crime of murder. That is true.
• 40:37
  Speaker A: Although Richmond spent a year in prison until he was acquitted. Because he was acquitted. After the. The judge saw all of this testimony, he just acquitted him and he was free. He was a free man. But you're right, Nobody did pay the price. I don't know why they didn't go after Ed Lawler at that point.
• 40:57
  Speaker B: I think, if you really want my honest opinion, I think the two of them, in spirit, are ganging up against French Louis.
• 41:04
  Speaker A: Really?
• 41:07
  Speaker B: She was. She participated. She escalated. And then she had a cover up.
• 41:14
  Speaker A: She did. She was not something else. Not a very moral individual. Sex worker aside, sex work, like all the lies, you know what I mean?
• 41:24
  Speaker B: No, I hear you. I think for me, I love this story. For so many Reasons.
• 41:28
  Speaker A: Tell me.
• 41:29
  Speaker B: I love this story because I never thought of a river town in this context.
• 41:37
  Speaker A: Like, like a seedy like red light district sort of place.
• 41:42
  Speaker B: I like when you would. If you took this story out of the the Midwest and put it in the Southwest or put it like in Tucson or, you know, Tombstone, you would totally be like, yeah, that makes sense. That checks out. But you wouldn't think of Minnesota.
• 41:59
  Speaker A: Like, the Minnesota people are so kind.
• 42:01
  Speaker B: They're the nicest. Like, you wouldn't think of this stuff happening in Minnesota at this time along the river.
• 42:08
  Speaker A: Agreed. That's a good point.
• 42:10
  Speaker B: I just love it. I love it for that reason. It gives such context to the land at the time. The energy surrounding the land and the conflicts and how it's unsettled.
• 42:24
  Speaker A: Girl, please, for sure take us through our hits.
• 42:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, I wish you'd never ask. Okay, Jenny B. Our reluctant psychic friend is freaking amazing.
• 42:35
  Speaker A: Okay, tell me about when she was picking up on dried up water.
• 42:41
  Speaker B: Winona itself was all underground. Underground. Winona itself was all underwater. It wasn't because it was when the glacier moved back the land, the water receded. That's when you were able to settle Winona.
• 42:56
  Speaker A: Oh, interesting.
• 42:58
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:01
  Speaker A: And industry, obviously.
• 43:03
  Speaker B: I mean, obviously the railroad.
• 43:06
  Speaker A: Railroad transportation, moving goods. That was all there. Feeling old timey. Pioneers.
• 43:12
  Speaker B: Pioneers. I mean, that's evident.
• 43:15
  Speaker A: Wild west vibes. It's this almost like a shootout, right? It really is in Minnesota. Who knew? Yeah. And the party vibes. I love that you were picking up on party vibes.
• 43:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:25
  Speaker A: And why usually were drawn to Winona. Oh, they were drawn there for a party.
• 43:31
  Speaker B: For a good time. For a good time. Call Tommy 2 Tone.
• 43:37
  Speaker A: Yeah. The grain silos near the railroad. Another indicator of the economy. Family business. Tell me about the family business. What does that mean?
• 43:46
  Speaker B: Well, the saloon they were in, where James was shot out of was a family business. Family owned. And like you said, you looked up the name.
• 43:53
  Speaker A: Oh, family owned and operated. The Parrhesias.
• 43:56
  Speaker B: Yes. The silos were also on Second Street. You know what else happened on Second Street?
• 44:03
  Speaker A: Shut up. That's where the saloon was.
• 44:06
  Speaker B: The saloon, but also where they picked up.
• 44:11
  Speaker A: Where they were whistling at the men.
• 44:13
  Speaker B: No.
• 44:13
  Speaker A: Were they. Were they picked up? Tell me. Tell me.
• 44:18
  Speaker B: After James was shot.
• 44:20
  Speaker A: Yes. James Malone.
• 44:21
  Speaker B: They picked him up and they brought him to a doctor on Second street. And that's where he was declared dead.
• 44:28
  Speaker A: Shut up.
• 44:29
  Speaker B: No.
• 44:29
  Speaker A: Huh. Huh. That's a pretty cool hit.
• 44:33
  Speaker B: Mm.
• 44:35
  Speaker A: Huh. Keep. What about. Oh, and Jenny, seeing the people on the porches, looking at the passerbys what
• 44:42
  Speaker B: do you think that is?
• 44:43
  Speaker A: Well, I thought it's the ladies who are watching the men go by and whistling at them is.
• 44:50
  Speaker B: I remember in the car when she said it, we were coming back from the river.
• 44:54
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 44:54
  Speaker B: We passed Second Street. So we were in between Front street and Second Street. Coming back, driving along, and she's like, I feel like people on the porches just looking at us like. Like calling out to us, but not calling out to us, but just, like, looking at us. And I was like, I remember her saying that. And look at our little psychic friend.
• 45:11
  Speaker A: Look at her. So it was the prostitutes?
• 45:13
  Speaker B: I believe so. Don't you think so?
• 45:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, that makes sense.
• 45:17
  Speaker B: What else would it be?
• 45:18
  Speaker A: No, no, I think it's the prostitutes.
• 45:22
  Speaker B: She was really picking up on sex workers.
• 45:24
  Speaker A: Okay. I had the distinction feeling of being shot in the back of the head. Jill.
• 45:29
  Speaker B: It's getting. It's getting eerie now. It's getting eerie now.
• 45:32
  Speaker A: Was. Was Malone shot in the back of the head?
• 45:35
  Speaker B: Yes, he was. Ooh. And I think. I think that complicates things more in my perspective, because he was running someone.
• 45:46
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 45:47
  Speaker B: He may have been a dick, and he may have threw a glass in dude's face. He may have been like, you ugly French Louis. But he was running away.
• 45:54
  Speaker A: He was running away. Okay, I see why. Maybe he deserves a voice.
• 46:01
  Speaker B: What a little jerk, though.
• 46:03
  Speaker A: He throws a glass in a man's face and then turns around and runs right after.
• 46:09
  Speaker B: After causing the conflict, too. I get that he was a little prick, but still.
• 46:15
  Speaker A: Okay, Jill, what else we got?
• 46:18
  Speaker B: Well, we have reviews on Apple that I want to go over.
• 46:23
  Speaker A: Oh, my goodness. First of all, we are at 221 reviews on Apple. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Now we want to get to what, Jill?
• 46:33
  Speaker B: Can I say 240?
• 46:35
  Speaker A: 240. Yes.
• 46:36
  Speaker B: I want 240. And you guys. Can I just say, you guys, we sit here, we talk into microphones on zoom with each other, and around the world, in 22 different countries, thousands of people are listening to this and responding to our ask. And that in itself, I am so grateful for. Not only that you listen through some of this gibberish that we managed to put together, but also respond to the things we're asking you to do. Thank you so much. That means so much. It literally keeps us going.
• 47:09
  Speaker A: That. Well put. I know. It warms my heart. It kind of makes me want to cry a little. Thank you.
• 47:14
  Speaker B: Please don't cry. She's a del. She's a delicate flower.
• 47:17
  Speaker A: Okay, so we have a review from Howard and the title is Mediators of the Macabre.
• 47:28
  Speaker B: He says he's already a good writer. Just from the title, you can tell he's a good writer.
• 47:35
  Speaker A: If you love listening to fun podcasts and are spooky curious when it comes to tales from the Athena etheric realm, then this is the podcast for you. The hosts are the perfect balance of personalities who intimately know one another, AKA they are sisters. The stories they tell also include fun historical research. In addition to giving voice to those who have passed, they also interview fun guests. What do I mean by fun? The host interviewed a psychic matchmaker named Deborah Graham. Check out episode 145 and get the backstory. It turns out Deborah is kind of a big deal and also a very good psychic. Well put, well put. And she also made me blush.
• 48:18
  Speaker B: Yes. Howard, thank you so much.
• 48:21
  Speaker A: That was so kind.
• 48:22
  Speaker B: Thank you for taking the time.
• 48:23
  Speaker A: Thank you, Howard. Love that. And we have another one from Off Grid Tara. That's Entertainment is the title. You sisters are absolutely gifted, hilarious, genuine, and entertaining. I was introduced to you through Nicole Bigley's A Psychic Story podcast and haven't let you go ever since. I love your detective work. Your intuitive abilities are so inspiring and I love how close and comical your relationship is. Thank you for sharing your gifts with those of us who are always excited to listen. Rock on, sisters. Oh, thank you so much, Tara.
• 48:59
  Speaker B: Thank you, Tara. Off the grid. Tara.
• 49:01
  Speaker A: These are great.
• 49:02
  Speaker B: Oh, well, well, well, you guys, I have to say we have been active. So thank you so much for reaching out for classes with Jennifer. Another one is coming up in April.
• 49:18
  Speaker A: Yes, ma'.
• 49:19
  Speaker B: Am. For reaching out for one on one coaching with the wonderful Jennifer James and emailing for readings with me. I love it. It's so fun to get to talk to you guys. But also I want to remind you that our Patreon page has four different tiers and you can subscribe and support us wherever you feel comfortable, even if it's a one time donation. So please think about supporting your favorite mystics so we can keep this going and keep the lights on and keep Brian paid. Brian, our editor.
• 49:54
  Speaker A: Tier four is Mystical Mentorship. It occurred to me the other day that it's not labeled Tier 4 Mystical Mentorship and we have an awesome community that we meet with every month. So if you're looking for a community, you found it. Find us on Patreon Mystical Mentorship.
• 50:12
  Speaker B: In March, TI Shippers is going to come on and discuss with us the concept of grief eaters and how she was able to interact with them. Really the coolest thing ever to get special guests to come talk about their expertise. Really, really fascinating.
• 50:30
  Speaker A: Yeah. So thank you so much, Jill for putting together this story. I learned so much about Mississippi river town, specifically north and yeah, first World War was seven years war. Who knew?
• 50:42
  Speaker B: Thank you so much for being able to read that article. That was so hard.
• 50:46
  Speaker A: I know I need an Excedrin right now because my, my head seriously still hurts. I know it was really hard.
• 50:52
  Speaker B: I remember reading it once when it was on Newspapers.com when you can like make it bigger and bigger, bigger. But then after it creates it into a PDF, there was no way. I was like, I'm done with this. It's cached.
• 51:04
  Speaker A: All right, well, thanks for listening. Enjoy the rest of your day and love you, Jill. Love you.
• 51:09
  Speaker B: Love you guys. Thank you.
• 51:10
  Speaker A: Bye bye.
• 51:12
  Speaker B: This has been a common mystics Media production editing done by Yokai Audio, Kalamazoo, Michigan.