Latest / The Magic Guys / How Dustin Marks Outsmarted Vegas! #291

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How Dustin Marks Outsmarted Vegas! #291 · The Magic Guys

0:01
They're guys they do magic they are the magic guys.
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Ladies and gentlemen what's up welcome to episode 291 of the magic guys to my left we've got nick k,
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hi friends i'm nick k welcome to the magic guys podcast episode 291 look at
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us creeping up to that 3-0-0.
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And today, as you know, we just talked about Doug now being the manager at the Magic Room.
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And he's busy doing that right now with some new additions that have just started
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there requiring his time. My mouth is slowly warming up.
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Let me have some Jedi juice. And here we're back next week. Nick, how are you doing, man?
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Buddy, it's been a busy, busy week. And it's about to get a whole bunch busier
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leading into the corporate season. So things are good.
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This is the quietest week i've got for a short while so i am just buried in
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projects same here this is i wonder if it's i wonder if it's like countrywide last year
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i mean last week my brain is still recovering last week i was traveling here
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and there and i like six different events,
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and you know i'm emceeing so i'm learning scripts i'm doing a keynote so i'm
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tailoring staff and i'm trying to blow their minds with like this custom magic
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which you were just saying you're being and kept up at night,
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creating new magic for clients too.
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And then this week, boom, only two events I have to worry about.
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And they're both just magic. So there's no like crazy preparation needed.
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And so it's like a week of like.
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Ah, just breathing a little bit, you know, but, but what a bloody blessing it
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is to have this situation,
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but you know who else we're glad to have in this situation is our friends in
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the chat, Nick, who we got coming in for the live viewership today.
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Well, it's good to see the, uh, the regulars. We got our good friend,
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Thomas Conger, Scotty Link. Good to see you, bud. Gutbuster Mike.
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It's always a blast when he is around.
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Scotty P in the house. Oh, Mike Miranda. Good to see it's a new face and robbie p,
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all righty howdy robbie p guys thank you for being here in the chat this is
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of course a live show meaning that you can post your questions in the chat
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to ask questions for either ourselves or our amazing guest today which i i just
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i just want to get into it my guy i have so many questions we gotta go we're gonna go straight in,
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let's do it yeah all right because today guys.
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We are joined by a uh by a man who took the artist sleight of hand uh out of
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the magical theater and put it straight onto the casino floor.
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You see, back in the 1980s, our guest spent four years cheating some of Las
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Vegas' biggest casinos, operating right under the pit bosses' noses and surveillance
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cameras, and absolutely crushing the game.
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With more than 500 cheating plays to his name, he's walked away with some extraordinary
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winnings. Reportedly, 150K in a single night. He is remarkable,
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and he's a wealth of knowledge.
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It is such a privilege to have him on the show.
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He's a magician, a master of deception, and a man with some unbelievable stories
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to tell. So please join me in welcoming, I'm the Magic Guys Podcast, Dustin Marks.
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Dustin, welcome to the Magic Guys podcast. Please tell our friends who are you and what do you do?
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Well, first, thanks, Josh and Nick, for having me. I appreciate it.
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I was a blackjack cheat back in Las Vegas in the 1980s, both as a dealer and a player.
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And like you said, I was involved in around 500 different cheating plays.
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And we won every time. And the reason we won every time is because we were playing
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with a 30, 60, sometimes a hundred percent edge.
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To put this in perspective for your audience, card counters,
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the best in the world had a little less than 1.5 percent advantage.
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So there's never a question if we were going to win, only how much we were going to win.
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And that's important for longevity.
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That is insane. How do we even start? Yeah. How do we do it? I have questions.
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Okay. Cause here's what I'm, I think the origins is so, is so interesting because
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with the diligence I've done and a little bit of research I was managed to squeeze
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into my week, it's my understanding you got into magic at the ripe age of seven years old.
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Is that correct? Yeah. I think that's a magic number for most kids.
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Yeah. Seven years old, friend of the family.
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Uh, he was 70, I was seven. So, you know, he's old guy, but I remember the minute
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he got those cards into his hands, he became young again and something clicked
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in my brain and it's never stopped clicking.
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I've had a physically a tough life from being from a bodybuilder to mountain climber.
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So I can feel my age, but luckily my hands still feel like they're 17 or 18, which is a good thing.
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As well as your hair as well. We were just admiring backstage. age.
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Amazing and and you live in vegas uh still currently yes yeah i've been here
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since 1983 when i moved here.
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Before we dive into your work, which I can't wait to, could you tell us a bit
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about how Vegas is like evolved over the time that you've lived there?
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Oh, it's changed. I think when I got here, 300,000 roughly. Now it's the entire
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Vegas is almost 2 million. So it's, you know, grown too fast, in my opinion.
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I tell people when I moved here in 83, they didn't have traffic reports on the
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news because there was no traffic.
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You get anywhere in about 15, 20 minutes. You couldn't get lost because you
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could see the casinos from anywhere and kind of adjust yourself.
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Now it's a big city like all big cities and it has big city problems,
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crime, traffic, overcrowding, et cetera.
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So, yeah, it's probably changed. Now, this is my personal opinion,
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more in those 40 plus years than any other city in America, at least.
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Yeah. Wow. And back then it was mainly about the casinos and not so much about the shows, right?
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Resort destination, and I'm guessing 80% to 90% came for the gambling.
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There were other things like the shows and stuff and some restaurants,
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nothing like it is today.
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But when a visitor came to Vegas back in the 80s, the only place the casino
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had to make money from their visitors was the casino floor and have to make money on the rooms.
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They didn't have to make money on the food.
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But then again, a casino back then might cost $10 million. Now it might cost $2 billion.
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Huge amount to recapture.
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So when you first arrived in Vegas, well, prior to that, I have one more question
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with regards to your origin story. And it was when you were about 10,
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the story goes, and I just want to see if this is true or not.
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There was an older man who hustled you in a game of gin rummy and you couldn't
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work out how. And then looking back, I'm just curious, did that.
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Did that sort of plant the seed of you getting hustled out of a game with an
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older man that sort of put you on this path?
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You did your research. Uh, yeah, it was interesting. My father,
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friend of his, and you know, they would socially hang out and he was a family
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man, Italian, but a family man. But then he had this brother and his first name was Vic.
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I remember that. And nobody ever knew what he did, but he always had money.
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So I'm a little 10 year old kid. I'm already into magic. I know a little bit.
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I might have already had expert at the card table. I'm not sure.
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But he heard, I guess, from my father, I like gin. So he sat down and played gin with me.
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And he was doing all these amazing things, telling me in the third hand,
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he'll knock with five. And then on the fourth draw, he'll gin on me,
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et cetera. People know gin, know that's pretty impossible.
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Now, I can't remember if it was my deck of cards or his.
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Is that a huge difference, of course, but it was very interesting.
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And yeah, that was a long time ago. And I still remember that.
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Unfortunately, I'm sure he's dead. He'd have to be close to 100 now if he was
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still alive. But based on that, he was probably a mechanic.
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I would think. Right. But it was interesting. You know, say a 45-year-old guy,
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maybe in the mob, maybe not, but at least associate and sits down with a 10-year-old.
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To me, that's pretty cool. You know, really.
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Of course, I'm talking about it today.
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Yeah. I mean, it's a bit of a privilege being 10 years old and sitting among
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like fast companies, so to speak. I think that's interesting. Oh, yeah.
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So there's a gap between there that I wasn't able to fill the gaps in.
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So from there, you arrive in Vegas in like 1983 with a couple of grand in your
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pocket and you start walking with the likes of people like Jimmy Grippo and
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Michael Skinner and Paul Harris.
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That is phenomenal. Now, was it magic up until that point or was it gambling until that point?
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No, really magic. In fact, this is funny. When I came here, I did not know how to play blackjack.
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Wow. Heard of the game, but did not know how to play.
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No, the first interest was definitely magic. I came from a card playing family,
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not a gambling family. Oh.
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And those magicians you mentioned, Grippo and Harris and Skinner and all of
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them were very friendly and very accommodating, which was great because I was
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just a 24, 25 year old kid who,
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could do a few things with cards, but not in their league, not even close.
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They were really helpful.
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Yeah so being amongst company like that that's obviously magic company but,
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you know as you were going down the track you were seeking a card expert who
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you affectionately call mr cc,
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and i'm curious how that happened and what it led you down what path happened
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from that so tell us how like even heard of mr cc and what led you to go down that path.
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Well, I started wondering who was the best with a deck of cards.
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You know, being in Vegas, there are a lot of good card men.
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And the names came up, you know, Skinner, Grippo, et cetera.
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I heard of them. But then one name came up, and I'll call him Mr. CC.
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And they said he specialized in gambling moves, which intrigued me.
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But he never came to the meetings, and he's kind of reclusive.
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Well, somehow I learned he worked at a downtown casino in Vegas.
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Go down to the casino, cut into a boss and ask him, hey, is Mr. CC working today?
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And the boss said, you know, he used to work here, but he quit and moved back east.
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Now, to this day, I can't tell you why, but I didn't believe the boss.
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So, you know, I kept looking for Mr. CC. Back in the 80s, there was a bookstore
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called the Gambler's Book Club.
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I figured, well, maybe Mr. CC might hang out there.
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And, you know, when you see the building from the outside, just an old concrete
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building, nothing special.
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But inside, that's, you know, where the magic happened. From floor to ceiling,
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they had books, books on gambling, magic and con games.
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So I spent a lot of time in the bookstore, bought a lot of books, read.
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There's a guy in there, I nicknamed him Bookstore Paul, is in there so often
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they literally gave him a job.
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And Paul and I became friends. And I told him about, you know, trying to find Mr. CC.
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So I remember one day I walk in the bookstores, normal, and Paul does one of these.
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And he shows me a VHS tape. Remember those? And on the back,
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there was a picture of a guy and we assumed it was Mr. CC.
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So I told bookstore Paul, if this guy ever comes in the bookstore, give me a call.
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Best lead I had. A few weeks later, the phone rings. It's Bookstore Paul.
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He goes, I'm pretty sure he's in here.
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So the bookstore is about 20 minutes away. I got there in less than 10.
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Walk in, look, spot on match. It was Mr. CC.
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So I know, or I knew, I should say, this is one of those now or never moments.
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I'm sure everybody can relate to that.
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So I walk up to him. I asked him, are you Mr. CC?
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And I'll never forget what he said. He said, it depends on who's asking.
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So we talked for a few minutes. Then he asked me if I had a car.
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I said, yeah, I have a car.
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And he said those three words had changed my life. Follow me home.
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I followed him home. I got to spend the next six hours of my life with the best
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card cheat who ever lived.
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He showed me all kinds of moves, you know, with cars, with dice, with chips.
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He showed me so much that my head was spinning so much I couldn't remember a thing.
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A brilliant strategy when you think about it. But I did realize this.
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Mr. CC was light years ahead of the casinos.
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So I knew if I could get these moves down, I could beat the casinos.
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Damn. So what do you think the Mr. Cece saw in you?
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Like in that interaction that he was like, this is going to be someone I'm going to share.
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He was a real friendly guy. And I remember we'd hang out a lot.
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He'd pull a car over, see some guy kind of new, give him a ride.
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But I think he saw once he could see how I could handle a deck of cards. All right.
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There might be something down the road for me. Who knows?
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But yeah, it was an amazing experience to get turned out by somebody like that.
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And actually, even though I called him Mr. CC, we were the same age. So very relatable.
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You know, there is a huge level of deception at play in these sorts of things,
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both in magic and both in gambling. And I think what's really interesting is
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that we spend times working on moves as a magician to get an applause.
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And then as a gambler or a card cheat, you'd have to spend time working on moves
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so that nobody sees, nobody notices, and there is no applause.
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Exactly. No, we don't want to bring attention to ourselves ever, especially as a dealer.
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There is an exception If you're the BP, stands for big player,
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And you're going to win $100,000 plus You can't try to hide That would be a
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tell So that's one of the times you, you know, accept the attention But normally
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if you guys were my agents You'd come in, you'd just play,
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You'd try to just blend in as much as you could Okay,
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Because we wanted to go for longevity. I want you to come in for,
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you know, six months instead of six weeks.
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Safer, a long run, win more money.
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And, you know, we see, you know, maybe the modern day gambler giving this a go is Stephen Bridges.
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And he's got a great series out. But he kind of shows, you know,
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the worst thing that happens is you get backed off and you just get told to leave.
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Were the stakes the same back then? or I kind of feel like they might have been
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a bit more aggressive back in the day before there were as many cameras and stuff.
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What was like the risk involved back then? Well, first of all,
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Stephen was an advantage player.
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So he wasn't doing anything illegal, card counter advantage player.
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What I was doing was definitely illegal. Even more. Against the law.
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So no, it was not good if he got caught.
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A couple of things could happen. But scenario one is, you know,
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it's kind of an old time joint. They don't want to fool around with it.
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They're just going to either fire you if you're the dealer, tell you to get
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out and don't come back if you're the player.
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That's number one. That's obviously the best scenario. Number two is you do get arrested.
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And depending on the crime and the courts, and I don't have any experience,
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luckily, so I can't really talk much about that.
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Number three is you're an idiot and you try something like Binion's,
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the real horseshoe back in the 80s.
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That's not going to turn out good for you. Absolutely not.
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Anybody with more than a single digit IQ stayed out of there if they were doing something nefarious.
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Great place. And then you ran
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a good casino, but you don't cause trouble there, which I think is good.
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I didn't have any problem with that at all. We just stayed out of there.
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Yeah. As far as gambling, I mean, he had a great thing. It was Dauer 99,
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breakfast at two in the morning, and it was really good. Thank you.
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So what I'm curious about is that you were deceiving people who were professionally
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trained to spot the level of deception that you were actually doing. Mm-hmm.
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Did you learn more about manipulating cards or people's expectations in that process?
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Little of both. I mean, the cards are kind of stagnant. Once you know the move,
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it does, or moves, doesn't change a whole lot, but the people do.
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And real quick, I would try to assess their knowledge.
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And one of the ways I did this, just by listening to them, talking to other
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bosses, talking to players.
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And I'd think, okay, this guy pretty clueless. He's not knowing what's going
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on. Or this guy's pretty sharp. I better watch out for him.
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I never acted like I had any knowledge.
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I was a dealer that was not a great dealer, not a bad dealer,
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just middle of the road, according to them.
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So you didn't really pay attention to me too much.
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I kind of kept to myself. I didn't want to bring any attention to me.
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And that worked out well. In fact, what I say is biggest compliment I could
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get is after I quit a casino, nobody remembered I worked there. Wow.
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I'm reminded of that Ocean's Eleven moment with Matt Damon, where it's like,
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you want to be noticeable, but not memorable. Like it's, that's.
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And I wonder, because you would, because you were a magician,
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I imagine like if you were, when you're at home in.
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You know, when you're turning on the magicness, I imagine you're pretty good
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at shuffling cards, practicing slights, looking good with cards.
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But then did you have to practice being bad at cards, if that makes sense?
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Like, did you have to flip a switch? That's an interesting question.
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It kind of makes me laugh.
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One thing I did, I told myself from Jump Street, every break room where the
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dealers went on their breaks had decks of cards.
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I never picked up a deck of cards. No exception.
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Because the minute I pick up a deck of cards, this happens. Right then and there,
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that shows I have talent. I'd probably get fired.
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Casinos did not hire magicians for dealing jobs. They were scared of them.
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So I didn't want to show any kind of dexterity with a deck of cards.
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Of course, I could deal the cards and shuffle.
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But in fact, that brings me, I want to say this now before I forget a funny story.
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So I'm at this joint. We're doing a lot of business.
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I was a dealer and the two main moves are the flash and stacking the deck.
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So one night I'm on a dead game, meaning no players, and this older boss comes,
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starts talking to me, nice old guy.
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And he goes, you know, you don't
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know how to shuffle. I'm thinking to myself, this is going to be good.
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He goes, you clump shuffle, you know, how well there's clumps.
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And it's actually true because that's the slug, that's the stack.
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So he does two pretty nice riffle shuffles. Then he tells me,
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I want you to shuffle like that, go ahead.
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So honest to God, I knew this was my shot. I did two push-through shuffles right under his nose.
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And honest to God, he goes, that's the way to shuffle.
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Wow. And I knew in the future I'd be telling this story. Now,
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of course, I didn't know about podcasts back then because they hadn't been invented.
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But I said, this is my chance. Now, he is probably in his 70s.
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He might be semi-blind. I don't know. But yeah.
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It does make a pretty funny story. But it's good enough that you know if he
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sees you do that, he just thinks, yep, he's doing a good job now.
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I taught him how to shuffle properly.
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Oh, and I thank him. You know, you want them to make the bosses feel good.
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And, you know, because if you like somebody, it's harder to suspect them.
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True. Yeah. And if they feel like they had to teach you how to shuffle,
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now their radar is even more switched off.
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Yeah, he's imparting his knowledge to me, And I learned real quick, supposedly.
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So you say you were never caught, but you've also told a story about the gaming
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control investigators confronting you in that break room and the difference between.
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So let's, I just want to have this little distinction between like never getting
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caught and never getting suspected and what kind of goes through your veins
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in that point. Are you freaking out? You're full of adrenaline.
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Are you just, you chill? You're calm.
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I got this. like what's that experience like and stuff like that i just chill
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out maybe i'm too scared to be scared and if you're acting scared that's a tell,
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so yeah we were it was actually mr cc and i i was the dealer he was a player
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and we were winning a ton of money well it turns out the game uh game control
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agents which are part of the game control board were actually on the game playing.
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They They weren't just watching. They were on the game.
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Yeah, two of them. And there was Mr. Cece and probably a couple more players. I don't remember.
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And, of course, all the bosses were watching. We knew the Sky was watching.
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Didn't faze me a bit. Now, literally, in my opinion, of course,
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I'm biased, she had probably two of the best in the world working together.
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So I don't know how much he won. It was in the thousands, obviously.
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So the relief dealer comes, taps me out.
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I start to walk to the break room as usual. Get another tap on my back.
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I turn around to two gaming control agents who identified themselves.
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And I knew exactly, okay, thinking this ain't good.
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So we walked to the little room.
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And the first thing they asked me is, do you know Mr. CC? Well,
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of course, I'm not going to say yes. I said, no.
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I said, he's in the casino. He tips well, you know, tokes.
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And then they asked me if I ever worked at this casino downtown called XYZ Casino.
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And that's the casino I went into about a year ago, trying to find Mr. CC.
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Now I'd never worked there. So I said, no, which was the truth.
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So I know what they're trying to do. They're trying to make a connection between myself and Mr. CC.
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And there wasn't any on paper. So I felt good about that.
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But then, in my opinion, they, what I call crack out a turn,
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and they accused me of signaling the whole card to Mr. CC.
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Let me explain what that involves. Back in the day, if a dealer had a tenor
23:39
ace up as his up card, he would look at his whole card.
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If he had a blackjack, he'd turn over his hand and everybody I'd lose kind of
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a time-saving procedure.
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Well, it takes no skill for a dealer to signal his agent the whole card.
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Well, we weren't doing this for two reasons. Number one, it was a well-known cheating move.
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But number two, it was too weak compared to what we were doing.
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We didn't even fool with it.
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So once they accused me of that, I knew they had no idea what was going on.
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And then in my mind, the dynamic.
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Changed. I was in control. I didn't act like it, but I felt very confident. They had no clue.
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They talked to me for maybe five, 10 more minutes. I don't remember.
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And then they left. I didn't get arrested. I didn't even get fired.
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Now, of course, Mr. Cece got backed off. I think they talked to him,
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but of course I never saw that because I was involved with my own thing.
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And I stayed working at this casino almost a month where they finally fired me.
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And this was the out-of-town casino. A little background on this.
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We took over that casino. We had five cheating dealers, seven players, and two shift bosses.
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It's like something right out of the movies. It really was. I remember the first
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time walking into a blackjack pit when everything was set up and looking and
25:02
thinking, that's one of our dealers. There's another dealer.
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There's a player. There's a player. There's our boss.
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We had dealers on every shift. So this play was running around the clock we're
25:13
taking out about between 10 and 15 000 a day every day,
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so yeah this was pretty big time and a lot of fun wow so this is this is an operation involving.
25:27
Dealers players management the whole thing,
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what i think 14 people if memory serves me right yep yeah and you're not even like,
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yeah for you know for everyone to know like it the way in which you would do
25:44
it is that something you talk about or is that something you keep to yourself
25:48
as in like what the night would can consist of like you would signal them,
25:53
like the the count or you would make sure they had the right i was doing two
25:57
things i was flashing the top car of the deck now i didn't do it like this but
26:02
you get the idea you can see the end to see there I can't.
26:06
Two cards. That's not right. Okay. A three.
26:10
But it would be down on the table. So only the person at first base who was my agent could see that.
26:17
You would play and bet accordingly. So as I picked the cards up from the previous
26:22
round, I would flash you your first card of the new deal before you had to bet.
26:29
So depending on the card you saw, you would adjust your bet.
26:33
Obviously, if you saw a 10 or eight, you're going to bet much bigger than a two or three.
26:38
Then as I tucked my whole card I would flash you your first hit card.
26:43
That meant you'd only double down when you get a 20 or 21 which is a huge advantage
26:47
let's say you had a 15 and you saw a 6 coming,
26:51
you're going to hit that regardless of the dealer's up card you got 21 you can't
26:55
lose and you're about a 95 guaranteed winner,
26:58
conversely if you had a 15 saw a 10 coming you're not going to hit regardless
27:02
because you're going to bust,
27:05
so that was very strong all the dealers were doing that but i was also stacking
27:09
the deck when i stacked the deck and that was really the move i was really excellent
27:14
at when i stacked the deck you were going to win every time no exceptions,
27:19
so when you got a team of about a dozen or so what's the closest i mean for
27:24
me having like one thing i love about being a magician is that like one man
27:28
orgy i do everything yeah not relying on anyone,
27:32
when you're in a team of about a dozen people like you're operating,
27:36
that there's that for me is like,
27:39
over 10 liabilities right of people that could screw this up what's the closest,
27:45
you the team has ever come toward falling apart because someone's made a mistake.
27:50
Well, in that particular play, what happened is this particular casino had a
27:57
policy or randomly polygraphed in its dealers.
28:00
And one by one, our dealers are getting polygraphed. And guess what?
28:04
They couldn't pass the poly.
28:06
Now they weren't getting arrested. They're just getting fired.
28:09
Oh, for reasons to this day, I still don't know. I never got polygraphed.
28:14
At the same time, the players were getting backed off for winning too much,
28:18
told they couldn't play blackjack anymore.
28:21
And again, for reasons I'll never know, Mr. CC did not get backed off.
28:25
So the team went from 14, just him and I, and we continued playing,
28:31
ripping and tearing, as I call it, until the game control thing.
28:35
You've got strength in numbers, ultimately. Like if you've got 12 and once someone
28:39
cocks it, it's not going to fall over because you've got 11 more players in
28:43
the game to help you do that, whether it be a pit boss or someone at the table.
28:46
Like people can be culled off slowly, slowly. The machine keeps running.
28:50
And if you're the player, you can play against me, then you can play against
28:54
Tommy, then you can play against Billy, et cetera, et cetera.
28:58
So it doesn't look like you're, well, you aren't just playing against me.
29:01
It looks like you're just going around and thinking this guy's a lucky dealer.
29:06
So that was very strong that way.
29:10
I think it went about a month before things initially start to fall apart where
29:17
the dealers are getting fired.
29:19
And then me and Mr. CC went probably three weeks before gaming control.
29:24
Now this is the eighties. So it was, you know, the communications were archaic compared to now.
29:30
So they didn't realize who he was until they found out who he was.
29:35
And then, you know, things kind of went south.
29:40
You know, in these situations, there could be an incredible amount of money on the table.
29:45
And I'm curious if there's any particular stories that stand out where there's
29:48
been a phenomenal amount of money on the table and a very terrifying moment
29:52
in which you're either got a lot of heat on you, or it could result in everyone losing money.
30:00
Yeah. Two stories. One wasn't a ton of money, but you know, we were winning
30:05
my main agent and we were going along.
30:08
I was dealing, he was playing, going along fine. And all of a sudden he gets
30:13
his fear of God in his eyes.
30:15
And I don't know why kind of trying not to look around, but kind of look around.
30:20
Now the corner of the eye, I see this boss rapidly approaching my game.
30:25
I'm thinking to myself, oh no, this is how it's going to end.
30:30
And she is a woman comes up to me and whispers in my ear, listen, I can't watch your game.
30:37
There's big money on the game across the pit.
30:41
Let me know if anything's going on here.
30:44
So I went from pure terror to pure relief, but my agent doesn't know.
30:50
And I can tell he's just about to take off because he doesn't know what she said to me.
30:55
So I got to communicate. Everything's George meaning. Okay.
30:59
So I just look at another player and I say, you know, that was nice.
31:03
The boss just told me you're a very good dealer and keep doing exactly what you've been doing.
31:10
So my agent stays at the table.
31:14
And of course we made a ton of money that night because essentially nobody was watching our game.
31:19
That's an interesting ploy as well. Pretty unique in that aspect.
31:25
As far as, you know, everything on the line, from my experience,
31:29
when we did the computer coolers, a lot of times I was the captain,
31:34
meaning I was the one in charge at the game.
31:37
Once we got set up, meaning all the players were at the table,
31:42
our dealer was there, the recorder who's going to record all the cards was over.
31:47
Off in the casino, but watching. I had to either say it's a go or no,
31:54
we're going to quit scrub the play.
31:57
And that's a lot of pressure for somebody in their twenties.
32:00
Cause I say it's a go, we get popped.
32:03
You know, everybody's going to say, well, you misread stuff.
32:05
You know, the casino knew what was going on.
32:08
Or if I say, let's get out of here and there was no heat, I just cost us six
32:14
figures, but luckily I, I made the right decisions. We didn't get caught or anything.
32:20
Wow. Did, uh, once you, and, and so we know, you know, you mentioned eventually
32:26
you got fired, you didn't get caught. You just got fired from that role.
32:29
Did, did it occur to you to be like, all right, I'm going to keep this going.
32:33
Or were you like, let me quit while I'm ahead.
32:35
Oh no, I kept going. Now I knew the ins and outs of the flash and stacking the deck.
32:42
And back then, especially in the 80s, dealers got fired all the time.
32:46
You could get fired for anything. You're too tall. You're too short.
32:48
You're too, you know. So that was not a big deal at all.
32:52
I moved back to Vegas because this casino we took over was out of town.
32:56
It was not in Vegas. Moved back to Vegas.
32:59
And the funny thing, I should have brought the picture.
33:01
Back at that casino, I had hair down to my shoulders, a big beard. I was 260 pounds.
33:09
In fact, a little backstory I had to get hired by the casino manager At this
33:14
casino who was not down with the plays.
33:16
And so I drive down there, me and another dealer, drive down there,
33:19
addition, basically didn't get hired.
33:22
So I come back to Vegas and I tell Mr. CC, I didn't get hired.
33:26
He goes, you know, you might want to clean yourself up a bit.
33:30
He goes, you look like a damn buffalo. And that was my code name from then on, the buffalo.
33:36
Yeah, I look pretty bad. I have a picture, but honestly, it is AI enhanced because
33:41
back then I did not allow my picture to be taken for obvious reasons.
33:45
But yeah, I looked pretty bad. I'm surprised they did hire me.
33:50
But after that play, I come back to Vegas, clean up. I lost 90 pounds in about
33:55
nine months. I looked totally different.
33:58
And I got a job dealing blackjack and I farmed my own team and basically did
34:02
the flash and stacking the deck.
34:04
And that went real well and had no bosses down with it. It was just me and my agents.
34:10
You know we've been talking about card cheating but there is a story a legendary
34:15
uh a dice cheat by the name of bones oh yeah.
34:22
Yeah he was this older guy and this was nowadays if i would have been involved
34:28
i would have got out of there real quick because there were so many things that
34:31
were wrong, but basically he was a very good,
34:35
uh, dice chief switching the dice.
34:38
And I guess he wanted to do one final play. And initially he didn't like me at all.
34:43
I still to this day don't know. And of course he's passed, but what got me into
34:48
the play was I had a camcorder and he wanted to film himself,
34:53
you know, new technology to him. In fact, it was new to anybody.
34:57
So I'd go over his house. He had a crap table. He's doing this switch.
35:01
And I'd film from different angles.
35:03
And we'd watch it. And then we kind of became friends. But that play was just,
35:07
there were so many things wrong with it.
35:09
And I was never like one of the insiders, insiders. But the bottom line is...
35:16
Hopefully it wasn't a good friend of Bones, but the shift boss at this casino,
35:20
had got popped for something and then talked Bones into doing this final dice
35:25
play, which everybody was going to get caught if it went down.
35:30
Because, you know, cops and FBI and everybody was there from what we heard.
35:34
Well, luckily we did not do the play. These kinds of plays take time to set
35:39
up. It's not like, oh, let's do this. And 20 minutes later in a casino.
35:43
I mean, it was like weeks and weeks and And it kept getting postponed.
35:47
I don't know why. Some of the stories I was told kind of sound like BS.
35:51
But anyway, that night we were going to do it. Finally, everything's perfect. We're all excited.
35:57
So we have some guys go in early. Because the craps table, I think you can get about 14 people.
36:02
And we wanted to lock up the crap game. Because basically, if you're on the game, you can't lose.
36:08
Pretty nice. So one of the guys, and I don't remember who it was. Pretty smart.
36:15
Called Mr. C.C. and said, something doesn't feel right here.
36:19
So Mr. C.C. had a friend who was very knowledgeable, new gaming control people,
36:23
FBI people, et cetera, et cetera.
36:25
And this guy goes, you know, I'll go in before I go to work and just take a
36:30
look around, see if anything looks off.
36:33
He calls Mr. C.C. and said, the damn place is flooded with gaming control and FBI.
36:40
So we never stepped near that casino that night.
36:45
And the story I was told is the shift boss was trying to set us up.
36:50
Of course, he didn't even know I existed, luckily.
36:52
And all the FBI and gaming were in, nothing happened.
36:58
This guy probably got additional time because it sounded like he was just BSing.
37:02
Nobody came in, no switch, no anything.
37:06
So that was, yeah, that was a close call in a sense of.
37:12
Nothing bad happened to any of us. But when you get these big teams,
37:18
yeah, the more people involved and you had to for this kind of play,
37:21
but the more people, the more possibilities of something going South.
37:27
That's why when I had my own team, I only had five agents. We all trusted each
37:30
other, got along and I can't think of one problem we ever had.
37:35
You know, I thought eventually a mentor of yours did get arrested. Correct.
37:40
Mr. CC did. Yeah. So I have a question regarding that, because you mentioned
37:46
that with regards to the FBI, they were observing his wedding,
37:49
which you attended. Yeah, we were all invited to his wedding,
37:52
which of course I attended.
37:54
And then afterwards, at some point we heard, yeah, the FBI surveilled it.
37:58
So now I'm linked with him.
38:00
I don't remember all who was at the wedding, but probably 90% were cheats and stuff.
38:06
There were parents and stuff that weren't, but yeah, pretty good guess that,
38:10
yeah, it was probably one of his partners.
38:15
So what goes through your mind when you know that all of a sudden you've got
38:18
FBI heat and there's probably every chance they've got some faces,
38:22
but then they know who those faces belong to, what those faces are called, but you know.
38:27
Yeah, that was not good, obviously. And that, this is probably year,
38:32
yeah, I'm sure it was year four of my four years.
38:35
And I decided, I had a good run, made money, had heat, but nothing serious.
38:41
But now this kind of takes it to a new level.
38:44
So a couple of weeks later, I retired from dealing blackjack.
38:50
And then about a year later, I quit playing blackjack, got away clean.
38:55
And I've not made a bet of any type since 1990. Really? Oh.
39:02
And did it ever, is it a thing you started doing or thought about to get into
39:07
the security business of casinos? Like, did you think of consulting for them?
39:12
I have some. Is that a thing? Not a lot, but I have consulted some casinos.
39:16
It's okay. It's not my cup of tea.
39:20
Not because I feel like I'm betraying people, but to be honest,
39:23
my stuff's kind of old and archaic as far as the moves.
39:26
Now, the psychology is still applicable, but the moves, you don't find them
39:33
in casinos almost at all anymore.
39:35
Private games, yes, but not the casino thing.
39:39
So what I'm really geared up
39:41
toward now and working on hard is more of a corporate speaker entertainer,
39:47
talking about my stories and then using the principles because the principles
39:53
I use can be applied to anything, cheating, investments, et cetera, et cetera.
39:58
So my opinion is, and you go to these corporate speaking gigs and we all say
40:05
kind of the same thing. There's no magic, but, and this is something you guys
40:10
get a kick out of because you might not know.
40:12
I have a speaking partner now. We just kind of hooked up and working very hard
40:18
on our speech because she's a woman. Of course, I'm a man.
40:24
So that's kind of unique. But she was a real-life diamond thief.
40:30
It's a $600,000 score. Oh, shit. So you got a card cheat here and a diamond thief here.
40:38
Now that, I think, would kind of capture attention. If you're going to go,
40:44
you want to see a speech about some junior CEO talking about fluctuation in
40:48
the market or a diamond thief and a card cheat.
40:51
Of course, I'm a little biased, but I think that's a little more interesting.
40:55
That's a very unique selling point.
40:58
Absolutely. Yes. And marketing, you've got to stand out. You've got to be unique
41:03
and we're unique. That's for sure.
41:07
100%. And so for any corporate bookers listening, what is the kind of elevator pitch of your talk?
41:15
Like it helps people deal with being under pressure. What do you sort of- Yeah,
41:20
under fire, under pressure. We have two completely different stories,
41:23
obviously, but I never got caught. she got caught a few times.
41:27
Now, she's completely changed her life around.
41:31
I, of course, back in 1990, made my final bet, never cheated again.
41:38
But then I changed my life also.
41:42
I had two loves.
41:44
One was magic, and that kind of manifested in a pretty interesting way.
41:48
But the other was mountains.
41:51
I was fascinated by mountains and Vegas is surrounded by mountains.
41:55
So I think seven years after I quit gambling, I wrote the first hiking guidebook
42:00
for Las Vegas, followed that up with a couple more guidebooks.
42:05
And then just kind of, I've always been creative. I started a thing called the
42:09
52 peak club, which is a hiking club.
42:14
Why 52 peaks? Probably already know 52 cards in a deck.
42:20
So each time people would hike with us to the peak, they'd earn a playing card.
42:25
The goal was simple. Earn all 52 cards, climb all 52 peaks.
42:31
And we had in the heyday, we had 3000 members, 90 hikes a month.
42:35
This is a big art operation. Wow.
42:38
And people, you know, once they climbed all 52 peaks, most of them said this
42:46
was one of the biggest accomplishments of their life.
42:49
Not only did they get in great shape, a lot of them conquered their fears.
42:52
You know, fear of heights is a big fear.
42:55
And they met lifelong friends. So it was really a good club for many,
43:02
many people that really enjoyed it. So that was kind of my redemption story.
43:09
You're speaking mixed language now with honking yeah dude yeah i'm a mountain
43:12
man myself love it oh really,
43:15
yeah i'm either mountain biking all summer and then snowboarding all winter
43:18
so like i'm totally very cool yeah yeah yeah so,
43:22
i i've got a separate cohort of friends who i mentioned your name and they fired
43:25
up a couple of questions if i may and uh sure one of the questions is with regards
43:29
to when you have like one of those massive nights where you clear 150k what's it like afterwards?
43:34
Do you, do you celebrate? Is it, is it very like low key, get your money, go away?
43:41
Is there a little of paranoia that surrounds you trying to hide that money?
43:45
You know, like how do you clean the money? So to speak, it was the first question they have.
43:49
I think the aftermath is something that's not really talked about.
43:53
Like obviously the glory of battle, you know, is one thing that's always written,
43:58
but what happens afterwards when, when you've got the spoils?
44:01
Well, I remember the real big one, the 150. The BP, big player, won all the money.
44:08
His codename was Iggy. And this guy had a interesting background.
44:11
Let's just say he wasn't the most trustworthy person.
44:15
So the play went down.
44:17
And once Iggy comes to the table, we all leave. We literally leave the casino.
44:22
We're not needed. So we don't know what's happening.
44:25
So we're all Mr. CC's waiting. And we don't know if Iggy's going to show up
44:29
with the money. He's much older. He's in his 60s. we're still in our 20s.
44:32
He may take off with the money, which obviously wouldn't be good.
44:36
Or when he goes with that pile of chips to the casino cage to turn it into cash,
44:42
that's when they're going to talk to him, security, casino manager, et cetera.
44:47
And they may arrest them and he may roll on us, give us up.
44:51
So we don't know what's going to happen. So we're all in Mr.
44:54
Cece's house and there's a knock on the door.
44:58
Iggy's not there yet. And we all look at each other and bottom line,
45:02
Mr. CC opens the door, it's Iggy. And he walks in, dumps $150,000 out on the kitchen table.
45:08
And we all celebrated like we just won the Super Bowl.
45:12
So that was really fun. Now we didn't go out, you know, to a bar and in fact,
45:17
most of us didn't drink. So we weren't drinkers, we weren't smokers, drug users, nothing.
45:23
That's another reason we never got caught as far as hiding the money i'm not
45:27
very materialistic so you know i kept the money i spent it some but i wasn't
45:32
going to go out buying fancy anything that's,
45:37
what gets you in trouble there's a great scene out of the movie casino with
45:40
denaro's bitching at everybody for buying cars the mink stole and he was absolutely correct um.
45:49
The only other thing I was asked about this cohort was ask him.
45:53
It just says this, ask him about the Kaiser. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah.
45:58
The Kaiser. The Kaiser was my main agent during all this.
46:05
And we're completely different.
46:08
We don't know why it works, but it works. If you ever seen the movie Planes,
46:11
Trains, and Automobiles, I'm Steve Martin. He's John Candy.
46:16
You know he's all over the place and you know i'm very focused and organized
46:21
but on our podcast which is called cheating at blackjack we talk about the old
46:26
days i think we're shooting episode 24 25,
46:31
tomorrow it's you know we just started six months ago but,
46:35
if you're into this kind of thing i think you would like it bottom line we're
46:39
entertainers we're not trying to teach you how to cheat you know we tell you
46:43
about the old days but it's an entertainment type thing,
46:46
we try to make it interesting and funny and it is like kaiser's kind of crazy in a good way though.
46:54
Definitely going to be kaiser for 40 plus years we've never had any problems you know we have,
47:01
different viewpoints on stuff which is good we don't want to be exactly alike,
47:06
but you know In the casinos or in the podcast But it works, it works real well,
47:12
And he was a Magician also Nick, I think from hearing You know,
47:18
how things would operate And you know, how,
47:22
Now also performing As a magician, there's one thing we haven't Covered yet,
47:26
and I think it is our little Segment called Gig Stories And I'm pretty keen
47:30
to hear what Dustin might have up his sleeve, so we're gonna roll that Segment right now.
47:41
The Geek Stories is where we talk about our magical moments,
47:43
either from our day to day or while performing. And I think that Dustin,
47:46
you have a ripper story to share with our friends today.
47:50
I'll do one for magic since I've been talking about gambling so much.
47:56
Jimmy Gripple taught me this way back and I use it all the time,
48:02
especially when the spectator has a deck of cards in his hand. Watch.
48:07
If you can just get that bottom card, you can do a miracle.
48:11
And you never touch the deck. So it can't be attributed to your skill if you
48:15
never touch the deck, supposedly.
48:17
So I do stuff like that where, you know, I knew the bottom card after he shuffled.
48:22
And then I would, you know, do this kind of force where it's just the bottom
48:27
card and let them shuffle.
48:29
And then use some of Danny D'Artese's creating false memories where I never touched the cards.
48:36
And yet somehow I know your card. It just seems impossible.
48:41
So I'm always big on that kind of thing. The other thing I did,
48:45
and this was a lot of fun and kind of funny, I was talking about the hiking and stuff.
48:51
Well, when we got to the peaks and usually peaks were big and not going to fall
48:55
to your death or anything, I'd take out a deck of cards.
48:59
And basically what I would do Because it made it look real fair I'd hold it
49:04
like this Which really you can't manipulate And I'd turn away and I'd just say
49:08
Tell me when to stop And I'd stop exactly where they said stop No force or anything.
49:14
Then I'd show them, you know, all the cards are different because if it's a
49:16
forcing deck, it's not much of a trick.
49:19
And then I'd pretend to read their body language and their facial expressions.
49:24
Of course, I knew the card, pretty interesting method.
49:27
And I had these people thinking I could read their minds, which is really funny to me.
49:33
And they would say, yeah, don't try anything on Dustin because he can read your mind.
49:39
So that was a lot of fun and it was good practice for me. that's great it's
49:43
always an interesting concept when,
49:46
you read their mind with cards and then they it does get a great,
49:50
visceral reaction but you you think to yourself like do you think if i was reading
49:55
your mind i would that's what i would spend my time reading like that it's the
49:58
you know three clubs but of course like it's so clean,
50:03
that i think we i think us magicians overlook it sometimes the idea of how strong
50:07
that effect can be that you can reveal what they're thinking in terms of a physical card,
50:13
we seem to think no it has to be it has yeah i get always always get very strong
50:20
reactions yeah it doesn't card you know they didn't physically pick one or anything even better,
50:27
even better so you know i'm really curious with regards to cheating right so
50:32
there's so many places that you can cheat at the table,
50:35
casinos private games back rooms that kind of thing i'm curious if you guys ever did that.
50:43
And if there's a sort of, or do you have a kind of a moral code in which you
50:47
tell your, your team, like, you know what, like I have no issues rolling a,
50:51
rolling a casino, but to roll an individual, I kind of draw the line there.
50:56
I never cheated except in a casino. Wouldn't cheat private games or anything.
51:01
Two reasons, mainly the moral thing. And two, a private game,
51:05
you could, something really bad could happen also.
51:10
True. Yeah. A pit boss ain't going to shoot you. That's for damn sure.
51:15
But a private game, people drinking, you never know. But no,
51:18
I had no, I was never tempted to do a private game.
51:23
Yeah. So as far as that goes, the motivation for winning at the table, is it purely the dollar?
51:31
Is it a little bit of the ego? Is it a little bit of the thrill of being able
51:38
to use a skill set to your advantage? Or was it just like, I just want the dollars.
51:43
And once the dollars were there, I didn't need to cheat.
51:46
No, it was more like David versus Goliath, beating them at their own game.
51:51
That was the primary motivation. Of course, the money was secondary,
51:56
but it was a motivation. But yeah, there's just something about beating them at their own game.
52:03
And of course, most of the bosses thought they knew everything,
52:06
which is good. That's what we wanted, because they really didn't, obviously.
52:12
You know, walking away voluntarily is such an amazing amount of strength.
52:16
How did it affect the rest of the crew?
52:19
The Kaiser kept going a little bit, and he understood. There's no problem, no tension.
52:26
A funny story is there was a guy who I met who I thought would be a great agent.
52:32
Now, I was not dealing anymore, but I told him about Kaiser,
52:36
and I showed him what we were doing in the flash and stacking. This guy was sharp.
52:41
So I was not there, but Kaiser told the story that I could just imagine it.
52:47
Kaiser doesn't know what this guy looks like.
52:50
So the guy comes in, and there's a code word, and he plops down in his chair,
52:55
almost falls out of his chair, adds a beer, and Kaiser's going,
53:00
what the hell, are you telling me a drunk guy?
53:03
The guy wasn't drunk at all. It was all an act. He had everybody believing he was just a lucky drunk.
53:12
And Kaiser tells a story at this casino. If you get a blackjack,
53:16
you win crap. That's his technical term, like hats and stuff like that.
53:20
The next time the guy comes in with all the crap, you know, the hat,
53:23
beads and stuff, the whole casino thinks he's a sucker.
53:27
And I don't know how they did, but Kaiser said this guy was so good.
53:32
And that, you know, I would have seen it because I would have got a kick out
53:36
of that. I can imagine knowing this guy, he was good at.
53:43
And that's the thing. So you're, you're, you're looking at people's character,
53:46
their ability to hold themselves together. That is such a huge plane itself. And I'm curious.
53:53
How this like a lifetime of studying people has led you to be able to just identify
53:59
like whether someone's worth trusting or whether they're suspicious?
54:02
Is there anything that we should be looking for as we approach people in our
54:06
lives, like friendships and even dating, for example, like, you know, is it great?
54:12
Yeah. It's, you know, when you almost do stuff automatically,
54:16
it's hard to break it down, but consistency,
54:20
you know, you guys are magicians, but if I talk about it's making this up now,
54:25
a double lift. And you didn't know what a double lift was.
54:28
Something's wrong there. How could you not know a double lift if you're a magician?
54:32
You know, so consistency, I studied Chase Hughes and he's one of the best at
54:37
reading people in the world. And he says, you know, one little thing is meaningless,
54:43
but it's the consistency.
54:45
You know, when people just, and you meet somebody and there's just that sixth
54:50
sense, something's not right with this guy.
54:52
Sometimes you can't put your finger on it, but you just get that feeling,
54:57
you know, and I'm not talking about talking to somebody for 20 seconds,
55:00
but you know, you're talking to him and he says he's X, Y, Z, but something's wrong.
55:06
You know, he's a multimillionaire and he's, you know, whatever.
55:10
They're just little tells.
55:12
Doesn't mean you're a hundred percent but you keep looking for those towels,
55:18
and you know i've always been kind of a i'll,
55:22
say suspicious but guarded you know not too many people could work with me back
55:27
in the day because you had to be good,
55:30
you couldn't you know crack under fire and do stupid things and the last person
55:37
i ever wanted and we never had is somebody oh yeah i.
55:41
Know more than you. Just give me a chance. Well, you're gone.
55:45
I won't even give you a chance. I don't want some kind of a narcissist because
55:48
that's just going to get you in trouble, in my opinion.
55:51
You know, I want somebody kind of low key, won't crack under fire, et cetera.
55:57
But yeah, it's a good question. It's just one of those hard to put into words,
56:01
but you just get that sixth sense sometime.
56:04
Now, sometimes you're wrong, of course, but the gut feeling,
56:08
a lot of time your gut is right and i don't think we know exactly why yet,
56:14
but it's pretty good at determining,
56:18
i was wondering if there's maybe like a screening process where you would ask
56:22
a cat do something or give him a deck and see how he handles himself you know
56:27
no not he's he's going to be safe in class company but it's just a gut feeling which is phenomenal,
56:33
yeah all my agents i knew personally They were, most of them were card counters.
56:39
So they already knew about the casinos and stuff.
56:42
You know, I didn't have to tell them about casinos and anything like that.
56:46
They're not going to do anything silly.
56:48
So that was a big help. I did have one...
56:52
Who wasn't in the casino business. And I taught him, I had a blackjack table
56:58
at my house and we practiced.
57:00
But I remember one time he came in, this one of the first plays.
57:04
And let's say he had a 13. I don't remember. It was more than 11, say a 13.
57:08
He saw an eight coming and he tried to double down.
57:12
So I said, this ain't going to look good. So I said, okay, how can I clean this
57:16
up without being suspicious.
57:18
I said, excuse me, I just want you to know you have a 13, not 11.
57:23
And then he knew it was, oh, I thought it was 11. I go, no, it's a 13.
57:26
You probably don't want to double down.
57:28
You know? So I cleaned it up because, you know, double down on 13, get an eight.
57:33
That ain't good. You know, and I'm not going to deal a deuce because first of
57:37
all, I don't know the second car.
57:38
Another day I'm eight. So I make a move that isn't going to help.
57:42
But normally though, all the other people were in the casino business.
57:48
And that's the thing nowadays. You have the money, you can buy some kind of
57:51
electronic thing, lack of a better word, that will cheat, but you have no idea
57:58
how to act in a casino and you just stick out like a sore thumb.
58:02
I've seen videos like, oh yeah, I don't know what these guys are doing, but they're.
58:06
Obviously up to something. They're just, you can just tell by their demeanor,
58:11
something's not right here.
58:13
And, you know, if you never been in a casino and you got this piece of equipment,
58:17
that's going to take off quarter million dollars, unless you're a, you know.
58:22
Rip and tear artist and you're down under fire like that a lot,
58:27
which most of these people probably weren't, you're probably going to be pretty
58:31
nervous and act suspicious.
58:33
And that's the last thing you ever want to do.
58:36
One of the very first things I learned from an old timer, he was very good.
58:40
In fact, he was actually portrayed in the movie Casino. He was a Don Rickles character.
58:47
He told me, in fact, he's the one who showed Mr. Cece the flash.
58:51
I was over there when we got the team together. He said, the last thing you
58:56
want to do is this when you're dealing.
58:59
Never do that under any circumstance.
59:02
And man, he drilled that into my head and I never did that because a dealer
59:07
should never take his eyes off the game.
59:10
Big question is why does somebody do that?
59:15
Now, if there's a logical reason, let's say it's not a dealer,
59:17
but a player, maybe he's looking for his wife, girlfriend, buddy,
59:21
but maybe he's looking for his partner, agent, et cetera.
59:24
So that why is a really good question. Why did that person do that?
59:29
And you're not always going to know the answer, but that's a good first question.
59:33
A lot of times there's a logical answer, but sometimes there's not.
59:38
It's been amazing. Well, I mean, Dustin, I can't, what's remarkable is I only
59:43
got through half the amount of questions I had written down for you today.
59:47
So I say that in the spirit of asking and the guys in the comments also said
59:51
the same thing. Like, will you please come back and visit us again someday?
59:56
Oh, absolutely. I really appreciate this. It's been a lot of fun.
1:00:00
You guys asked some good questions.
1:00:02
I can tell you did your research, which I appreciate because I'm a big researcher.
1:00:06
I think there's a lot of value in that.
1:00:08
Before I go, I'd just like to mention, again, the podcast, which is Feeding
1:00:12
at Blackjack on YouTube.
1:00:15
But if you're interested in anything I do, just my own personal website,
1:00:20
which is dustinmarks.com.
1:00:22
It has links to my books. It has a podcast. It has all kinds of stuff.
1:00:27
So if you have a bad memory, that's probably the best thing to remember and
1:00:32
go to is dustinmarks.com.
1:00:34
And then you get to everything else.
1:00:36
Beautiful. And we have that link in the description of wherever you're watching
1:00:41
that on YouTube or listening to this on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
1:00:45
So that can be your starting point. And then you can break off to,
1:00:48
yeah, Cheating at Blackjack podcast or the books.
1:00:52
Look, this has been amazing. And now we can continue listening to your stories
1:00:56
through the podcast, your podcast, which is great.
1:00:59
But for now, we're going to end our podcast in the way we always do,
1:01:03
which is by giving our guest the final word.
1:01:12
Well, again, Josh and Nick, thanks so much for having me. This has been fun.
1:01:16
Really good podcast. You have some great questions.
1:01:20
Definitely, I'd like to come back again. If any of your listeners are interested
1:01:24
in anything I do, we just mentioned DustinMarks.com.
1:01:29
My email address is there if you want to email me a question about something.
1:01:34
And the podcast, Jeep at Blackjack, is on YouTube. And that's the best way.
1:01:39
It's also on Spotify, Apple.
1:01:42
But you're going to want to see the podcast because we're doing a lot of moves on various segments.
1:01:48
Again, it's been a lot of fun. I really appreciate it.
1:01:52
Thanks for listening. It's time for us to disappear now.
1:01:58
But we'll see you again on the next episode of The Magic Guys.