Latest / Two Personal with Joy Taylor / Prenups, Surrogacy & Motherhood with Sahar Khorram

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Prenups, Surrogacy & Motherhood with Sahar Khorram · Two Personal with Joy Taylor

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I was on Instagram the other day and I made
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: a video. I don't know when the last time I talked,
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: and I was joking, but I'm Siiah. I actually don't
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: know the last time that you have a good ass,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: though you should talk soon.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Too Personal. I'm Joy Taylor, and today
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  Speaker 2: we have my friend Sahah. She is in the building,
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  Speaker 2: so excited. An amazing individual, incredible person, very brilliant. She's
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  Speaker 2: a family attorney, she is a force on social media.
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  Speaker 2: She's a founder, she's a mama, Mamasita, Mamasita, she's a
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  Speaker 2: wife and just an all around incredible person. Multi hyphen
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  Speaker 2: it which we'll talk about.
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  Speaker 1: We'll we'll talk about. I have a lot of thoughts. Yes,
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  Speaker 1: welcome to Heart's Too Personal.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Thank you. I'm such a fan of yours.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Before I even became your friend, I've always been a
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: fan of you. I think you're brilliant and intelligent, and
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: I don't feel that way about a lot of people.
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  Speaker 1: I know you, so thank you to be here.
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  Speaker 3: I feel the same way.
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  Speaker 2: Make sure you follow Sahar Sahar Koram on social media
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: at I'll spell it s A h A r k
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  Speaker 2: h O r r A M M I'm Taylor now though, Yeah,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: are you.
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  Speaker 3: Going to change it? I don't know. I think I
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  Speaker 3: got my degrees with that last name. It feels weird.
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to just hand it to a man. Uh.
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  Speaker 2: You know when I when I got married, I changed
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  Speaker 2: my last name, but not publicly changed it back.
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  Speaker 1: I think I I've changed it privately but not public.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah. But a lot of people do that though. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: And also you have a daughter, I do, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: for family purposes.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: The thing with Persian culture is that women don't change
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  Speaker 1: their last name. It's actually prohibited in Islam because it's
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  Speaker 1: the women loses her way of tracing back her lineage.
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  Speaker 1: It kind of gets absorbed into the man. Until you
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  Speaker 1: never you don't really know where you came from. So
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  Speaker 1: my dad was pretty upset when I did it.
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  Speaker 3: I did not know that. What do you know, Traditionally
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  Speaker 3: you don't have to change your last name. Guys who knew?
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  Speaker 3: I'm being started.
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  Speaker 2: But that's a very interesting, very interesting non eracial Well.
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  Speaker 2: I think this is not where I was gonna start,
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  Speaker 2: but now here we are. I think there are a
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  Speaker 2: lot of misconceptions about Islam because they're like any religion
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  Speaker 2: as I've discussed at length. There are people who use
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  Speaker 2: it to oppress people, of course, and there are elements
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  Speaker 2: of it that can be weaponized in horrific ways. And
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  Speaker 2: the brand of Islam is obviously been publicly synonymous with
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  Speaker 2: those people who don't have experiences with it with pure
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  Speaker 2: misogyny oppression.
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  Speaker 1: I always say, it's crazy how bad our PR is,
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  Speaker 1: given how many Muslims are.
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  Speaker 3: You know, if we rebranded, we could really take over.
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  Speaker 2: The PR is bad. The PR is really bad. I
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  Speaker 2: understand the defense of Islam. The PR is really bad
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  Speaker 2: for quite a few of the major religions right now.
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  Speaker 3: The PR is really bad for Islam.
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  Speaker 1: And I don't think we have like the pretty aspects
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  Speaker 1: of Islam all around to help us.
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  Speaker 3: Like Catholicism.
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  Speaker 1: You go to the Vatican, it's beautiful, there's there's the cross,
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  Speaker 1: there's just a lot of things that make you want
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  Speaker 1: to go.
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  Speaker 3: But mosques are stunning. Mosts are stunning. If you don't
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  Speaker 3: hate mosques, but they're stunning.
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  Speaker 2: Though, Like I don't, I have deep issues with the
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  Speaker 2: with all of these institutions. Yeah, but well, also it's
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  Speaker 2: not fair we travel, travel, we go place.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, you've you've probably gone to Istanbul and said, oh
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  Speaker 1: my god, this is soe I've.
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  Speaker 3: I've been to Casablanca.
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  Speaker 2: The Mosque in Casablanca is the most beautiful Muslim countries.
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  Speaker 1: Obviously, you start to see what Islam really is, and
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  Speaker 1: you know, for me it's it's with everything that's been
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  Speaker 1: going on between Iran and the regime, obviously, I've been
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  Speaker 1: having a very tough time with it as well. I
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  Speaker 1: don't agree with the way that Islam is even being
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  Speaker 1: practiced in Muslim countries right, so I don't think the
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  Speaker 1: officials or the people in charge are showing the religion
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  Speaker 1: the way that it's supposed to be. But when you
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  Speaker 1: get to the root of it and the way that
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  Speaker 1: it works, for me, it hasn't been oppressive.
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  Speaker 3: I remember when I was dating.
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  Speaker 1: I would go on dates with guys and I'd say,
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  Speaker 1: I'm telling you right now, I'm Muslim, this this, and
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  Speaker 1: this is not going to fly.
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  Speaker 3: And it's so crazy because they would respect that.
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  Speaker 1: And then my other girlfriends who would go and say
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  Speaker 1: the same thing on a date would get called gold
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  Speaker 1: diggers and all these other names. So I started telling them, girl,
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  Speaker 1: you gotta tell them you're Muslim, say you just grew
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  Speaker 1: up with Muslim values.
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  Speaker 3: There's just no way around that because you can't insult
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  Speaker 3: someone's religion.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, were they heavily religious men?
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  Speaker 3: Not at all. I mean I have converted a few,
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  Speaker 3: but they weren't religious at all.
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  Speaker 1: But you know you I told everybody from the jump
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  Speaker 1: that I, whoever I was going to marry, you would
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  Speaker 1: have to, at least on paper, became become Muslim. I
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  Speaker 1: run a Muslim household, right, So there are certain things.
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  Speaker 1: You know, my money is my money, Your money is
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  Speaker 1: my money. That was very important to me from the jump.
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  Speaker 1: But also the way that a woman is when she
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  Speaker 1: gives birth. You can technically charge your husband for or
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: breastfeeding your child. That's not that's not something that people know.
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  Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of rights that you have,
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  Speaker 1: at least financially. Girl.
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  Speaker 3: I have a friend who's brestweading right now. She would
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  Speaker 3: love to hear that.
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  Speaker 2: She's not gonna convert to It's okay, girl, she can
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  Speaker 2: take one of our values. I told her too. I
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: was like, you are not I know you. You are
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  Speaker 2: not going to like this breastfeeding thing. No, if I
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  Speaker 2: I has not breastfed zero children in my life and
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  Speaker 2: I already know.
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  Speaker 1: Everyone kept telling me it was going to be this
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  Speaker 1: amazing bonding moment, and I just never felt that way.
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  Speaker 1: I did it for four or five weeks, and I
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  Speaker 1: just don't need to feel needed in order to feel
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  Speaker 1: like a good mom, you know what I mean. So
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  Speaker 1: much of mommyhood can dive into narcissism, and there's not
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  Speaker 1: enough conversations around that. Why do you need your child
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  Speaker 1: to need you so bad?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, let's let's get into it.
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  Speaker 2: We get into everything over here, so I'm not really like,
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  Speaker 2: we'll get to all my questions later. But yeah, I mean,
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  Speaker 2: obviously I don't have children, and I openly don't want children,
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  Speaker 2: but I am a fabulous aunt to many children.
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  Speaker 1: And it's always the people who would be great moms
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  Speaker 1: who don't want to be moms, the people who are terrible.
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  Speaker 3: Stop reproducing, I'm making babies.
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  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think there is and I have friends
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  Speaker 2: who are dealing with this as well, who are moms
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  Speaker 2: who are new moms or newer moms. And there's an
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  Speaker 2: identity thing that happens obviously when you become a mother,
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  Speaker 2: that your life is different, the things that are required
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  Speaker 2: of you are different. But one thing I've always thought
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  Speaker 2: deeply about if I was to become a mom, which
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  Speaker 2: obviously I'm not, but my identity is so important to me,
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  Speaker 2: and my autonomy is so important to me, and remaining
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  Speaker 2: a person after you have a child is a very
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  Speaker 2: difficult thing for people to for women, for women's get,
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  Speaker 2: for women to do. And it's why I actually try
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  Speaker 2: to be very intentional with my friends who are new moms,
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  Speaker 2: to talk to them about them and not just about
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  Speaker 2: their children.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'm definitely going through an identity crisis.
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  Speaker 1: My postpartum has looked a lot different than other people's
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  Speaker 1: because physically I did all of the things. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I started working out as soon as I gave birth.
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  Speaker 1: I mean I was working out before, but I never
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  Speaker 1: stopped doing the things that made me me.
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  Speaker 3: The problem is there's a whole.
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  Speaker 1: New set of responsibilities that you have that you can't
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  Speaker 1: brute force your way out of. It doesn't matter how
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  Speaker 1: much I go out to dinner or get my hair done,
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  Speaker 1: or work out, or do hang out with my friends
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  Speaker 1: or talk about other things. There's now a fifty percent
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  Speaker 1: of my brain that's constantly thinking, is no, y okay?
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  Speaker 1: Has NOI slept is she crying? Is you know whatever
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  Speaker 1: it is that you can't get rid of. And I'm
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  Speaker 1: happy with that responsibility because, as you know, I went
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  Speaker 1: through fertility journey. It was really tough to get NOI
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  Speaker 1: but I could see even in my position, there are
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  Speaker 1: ten to twenty percent of times where I just wish
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  Speaker 1: I could turn off that responsibility the same way that
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  Speaker 1: I think my husband can turn it off because he
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  Speaker 1: knows that I have it, you know, and he has
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  Speaker 1: other responsibilities.
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  Speaker 3: That I don't think about.
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  Speaker 1: Right, So each person is playing their role in my
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  Speaker 1: in my household, but there are times that I wish
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  Speaker 1: I just didn't. I was careless and and now I think,
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  Speaker 1: what was I thinking about when I was sore?
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  Speaker 3: Like I was so careless? What was I doing with
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  Speaker 3: my life? And to Martini?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and just even drinking. I was on Instagram the
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  Speaker 1: other day and I made a video. I don't know
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  Speaker 1: when the last time I talked, and I was joking,
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  Speaker 1: but I was serious. I actually don't know the last
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  Speaker 1: time that you have a good ass though. You should
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  Speaker 1: work soon, and that's what I'm saying appropriate, Yeah, like
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  Speaker 1: what I'm not going to work with a child, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I want to do you.
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  Speaker 3: Go places where the children aren't. Yes, that's what I mean.
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  Speaker 3: I have to go somewhere.
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  Speaker 1: I need to be three spicy margaritas in and I
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  Speaker 1: have to feel really comfortable about the fact that I'm
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: three spicy margaritas in because I have to be like,
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  Speaker 1: my daughter is taking care of regardless.
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  Speaker 3: And then I just want to throw it in a circle.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah what it makes me feel better. I don't remember
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  Speaker 2: the last time I worked either.
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  Speaker 3: See, you're missing out on opportunities right now. I use
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  Speaker 3: these work. I don't have it.
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  Speaker 2: I don't have your ass, as I get told every
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  Speaker 2: single week. I have thousands of people letting me know
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  Speaker 2: I don't have ass.
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  Speaker 3: It's okay, girl, you got you got.
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  Speaker 2: I have enough everything else enough. I have many blessings.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not complaining, and no one complaks about my ass either.
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  Speaker 2: They they're very happy to touch it.
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  Speaker 3: But I do agree with the identity crisis.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's something that I'm definitely going through, even though
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  Speaker 1: I don't look like the person who's going through the
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  Speaker 1: quintessential identity crisis.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I mean it's look, motherhood is so complicated
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  Speaker 2: and the way that it's represented to people.
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  Speaker 3: I think it's just insane.
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  Speaker 2: Like there's these expectations on women when they become mothers
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  Speaker 2: that are horrifying to me, Like the idea that you're
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  Speaker 2: an everyone is supposed to snap back automatically. You have
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  Speaker 2: no idea what people went through to get this child here.
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  Speaker 2: Some people have had to be sorry, let me be
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  Speaker 2: very specific. Some women have had to be chopped up
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  Speaker 2: to get a baby here. Like a sea section has
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  Speaker 2: been as almost been branded as like a cosmetic surgery.
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  Speaker 3: Layers they cut yeah to get that baby.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then they have to sew you back together perfectly,
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: or you will never be able to get abs again
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  Speaker 2: because your muscles literally do not line up, Like forget
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  Speaker 2: the scar. It's just your body is actually never even
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  Speaker 2: going to remotely look like it did before or have
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: the opportunity to even even shape because the doctor didn't
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  Speaker 2: do it right.
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  Speaker 3: Like there's so many different complications that goes.
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  Speaker 1: Into and then there's so much that goes into who
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: your doctor is, if you are able to advocate yourself,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: which is so much tied to socioeconomic status and why
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: and laws and all of that. I was in labor
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: for thirty six hours, right, it was terrible. I pushed
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: for three hours. I had an amazing doctor, and I
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: had my mom's nurse.
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  Speaker 3: I'm a lawyer, you know.
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  Speaker 1: I had the people around who kind of knew what
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: was going on. And I still think I miss things.
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  Speaker 1: So I can't even imagine what it would be for
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  Speaker 1: someone who doesn't have the support sys some that I had,
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  Speaker 1: or the knowledge. It's just it's not easy. And then
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  Speaker 1: for me, part of the identity crisis is none of
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  Speaker 1: my friends have kids. Like I have two friends who
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: have kids. One lives in Virginia and the other one
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  Speaker 1: is also she's on the East Coast.
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  Speaker 3: I feel like.
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  Speaker 1: I'm the big sister, you know, the oldest child who's
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: going through all of it alone.
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  Speaker 3: And they're sweet and they're trying to be there for me.
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  Speaker 1: But I do sometimes wish I had someone who was
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: going through it at the same time, so I could
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: ask questions and I can lean in. And I've been
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: trying to lean into more mommy groups with.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: Girl well, I like I can. I've been around a
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: lot of kids. I know things. No, I get it.
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  Speaker 2: It's I saw you post and talk about that, and
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  Speaker 2: I actually I felt bad. I was like, damn, I
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: cannot help in this in this regard, but it's you know,
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  Speaker 2: that's also just a reflection of like people aren't having kids.
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  Speaker 2: You know, there was there was a time when we
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: would all plan this and do it at the same together.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Right and you you know we we have created this.
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Well not we because we didn't design the patriarchy, but
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: you know this, this colonized idea of the nuclear family
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: is not how human beings were supposed to live, raise children,
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: have community like that is it has been so ingrained
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: in our brains that we don't need to talk to
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: our neighbors and this is our space and this person can't.
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: Come over, and we don't really individualistic.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: It's individualistic, and it's marketed as family, but it's actually not.
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  Speaker 2: You should have a community of women who have all
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: been through elders, even younger people, people your age, you've
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: all been through this.
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  Speaker 3: Someone you could just leave your.
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  Speaker 2: Child with and go do what you need to do
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  Speaker 2: and feel completely safe. And it's gotten progressively worse because
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: even the way that I grew up, like not every
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: neighbor obviously there's give your kids with anybody, but like
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: all of the close neighbors in my neighborhood, like I
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: could go to their parents. If I needed something, my
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: parents would leave me there or leave us at home,
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: knowing that if something happened to us, we could go
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: to our neighbors and they would help us.
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  Speaker 3: Like there was a community of people around.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: And the word family used to be synonymous with community,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and now they're completely separate. I remember I recently moved,
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: so I went to I don't know, sebe two wherever
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: to go buy some glasses. And I turned to my
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: sister and I said, isn't it crazy that they sell
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: sets of two or four? Like why are the family
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: structures so small? What if I have a lot of
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: people who want to come over, We don't really how
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: much the system has changed to make that nuclear family
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: so small. Yeah, that it's reflected in even the way
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: that products are sold. A set of two, only two glasses,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: a set of four, and then if you're going crazy,
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: it's six or eight.
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Right, that's when you got a big family.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: But back in the day, you would have everyone and
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: their mom come over, and.
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: That's that's what felt joyful.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: That's kind of what I'm trying to bring back, at
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: least in my household.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: But yeah, my friends don't want to have kids. It's expensive.
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: I get it. What are you going to do bring
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: them into an environment that you can't give them the best? Well,
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: it's expensive, and you know there's men involved, exactly, And
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: there's men involved, men involved, And.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: My single friends are having a tough time and I
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: would tell them, you know, let's just go out and see.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: And it's so bad. I think in general, to be
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: with a man.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: Is to have to tolerate some type of disrespect because
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: you're taking part in the patriarchy.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Right. It feels very republican.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: It just feels so feel so you know what I mean.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: It's like, should we all be lesbians?
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: No? But I think it's it's hard.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: In general, everyone who's in a relationship kind of goes
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: to the bullshit store and tolerates their bullshit. And your
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: bullshit might be someone leaves a soccerron. That's the bullshit
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: you're willing to tolerate. Someone else is something else. But
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: the bullshit right now is so bad that I understand
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: why they're single.
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I want to be clear, like there's I
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: have amazing men in my life and you and you
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: do too, and we have mutual friends that are incredible people.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: They're all taken. Yeah. Well yeah, and.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Then we were we haven't dated the ones that are
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: that we know, we're good friends with them.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, No, it's it's no secret that it's
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: it's tough out here for people who are who are
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: single and who are looking to you know, I have
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: friends who are looking to get married and have kids
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: and are really struggling with it.
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: But I think in general, there's just a lack of.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: There's a lack of transparency in what it is people's
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: goals are. And a big part of what men are
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: adjusting to, which is why they're trying to not have
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: to adjust to it and roll back all these rights
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: and abilities so women have to have men again, is that.
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: They haven't been First of all, they haven't been raised
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: by women.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Who had these experiences, and they weren't They weren't raised
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: by those women for us. Yeah, they were raised for
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: women that are like their mothers back in the day.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: And those women somewhere exists, but mostly don't. And certainly
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: the you know, the sensitivities and stuff are different.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And also if you look at just the way that
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: women are outperforming men right now from an education, financial job, perspective.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Well, that's because we had to. That's what I meant,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: and we have to be better than that.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: And I don't think women woke up one morning and
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: said I want to outperform men. Right, we just weren't
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: ambitious and we put our head down and we did
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: what we had to do. And that has been made
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: dating a little bit tougher, and I've seen it even
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: when I've talked to certain couples when it comes to
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: prenups or divorces.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of women.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: Now who actually want to have prenups because they're the
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: ones who are the breadwinner, or they have something of
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: theirs that they want to protect, whereas back in the
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: day it was a man right. We didn't even have
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: rights to open up or on bank account.
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: Or on real estate.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: So not that long ago did Yeah, there's women alive
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: today who many who remember that time and didn't have rights.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: Then what Okay, so you, what is your opinion of
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: prenups or how would you actually pitch a prenup to someone?
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: The way that I would pitch it is when you
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: get married, there's a contract that's assigned to you by
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: this state. That contract can benefit you or it can
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: actually work to your detriment. You have the option of
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: putting in whatever you and your partner agree to in
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: there and personalize it for yourself. It's kind of like,
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: do you want to take the car that the dealer
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: gives you or do you want to soup it up
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: and add all of your things you can? You can
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: do either or I don't really know why anyone would
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: take what the state gives you.
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: It's not always going to be beneficial.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I've been married and I signed the state contract and
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: I did not have a bad divorce. But the idea
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: that someone, anyone, if you have nothing or you have
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: a lot, would get married without a prenup is I
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: don't understand it, Like I don't understand what the like
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: I see a lot of people talk about, like like
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: I would ever signed a prenup. It's not romantic, Like, huh,
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: you're crazy. It's a contract. If I give you a contract,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: we're going into business together, and I give you a
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: contract that I got off legal Zoom and gave it
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: to you, and I just expected you to sign the contract.
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: You don't have one note, you have no redline.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: Crazy, You have nothing to say, not a single thing
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of people who don't want
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: to sign a prenup validly so because the opposing party
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: wants to take everything from them. So I understand that perspective.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: It's really hard, and this is the nuance that gets
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: left out. Often your prenup is only going to be
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: as good as what the other person is willing to
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: give you. It's a negotiation, right, So I put certain
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: things in my prenup that someone else might not be
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: able to get away with because their partners not granting
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: it to them. The women that are unwilling to sign
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: prenups is some of them is because the person is
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: coming to them and saying, you're gonna be in this
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: marriage and if you walk away, you get nothing.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: I completely understand in that situation.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: You know, when I was at Columbia getting an LLLM,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: I wrote a paper about how.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Choice is a fallacy.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: There is no real There is no real choice for women,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: and we can talk about that another day. But there
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: are a lot of situations that I also want to
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: highlight where a woman has been dating someone for four
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: or five years and the partner comes to them and says,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I want you to sign a prenup and you're not
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: getting anything. In that case, you don't really have that
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: many options here, you do, you can walk away. That's
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: a choice one thousand percent. But I'm saying, if you
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: want to be in that relationship, you don't have that
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: many options.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but that's then then that is your choice. Yes,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: that is fundamentally your choice.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: It is.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: And then you're choosing a person that is willing to
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: put that on a stable for you, and that is
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: also something that you should consider that in that situation.
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: I look at marriage really so much in it. I
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: get scolded for this all the time.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: I don't care.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: Marriage is a business, of course, it is arrangements. Yes
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: you do have sex with your partner, yes you have.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: But it is a partnership. That's why people hate the
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: word partner because they're like, what do you mean like
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: a woman.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you're.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: A partner, Like that person is your partner. You buy
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: property together, you build businesses together, You raise children together,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: and make medical decisions. You decide what to do with
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: your parents when they age, like you buy cars and
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: how you pay your bills, what kind of color you
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: paint your house, like everything is a decision that you
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: have to do together in some way or another. Even
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: if your partner's like, I don't care about what color
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: you paint the house, that's still a decision that is made.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still a conversation that you're having. And I
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: also feel like this is why it's so important to
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: talk about these things early on in your dating, so
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: that you don't spend four or five years with someone
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: and then they bring it up.
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: Out of nowhere.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: You know, when you go to therapy, they tell you
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: there's like four or five categories that can result in divorce,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: and money is obviously one of them. Having conversations about
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: finances is so important early on, not just prenups, but
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: how much debt are you in? You do not want
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: the first time that you are going into the marriage
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: or going into a prenup conversation to be the first
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: time that either party knows about each other's debt or income.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: Like, I just don't understand.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: How are you feeling comfortable laying down with somebody giving
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: them your body but you don't know how much debt
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: they're in?
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean told me, where you get this body?
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: You've you've given up that ass without knowing how much debt. Yeah,
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: but I was like, I'm like seventeen. I was like, seventeen,
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: I understand what you're saying. Serious long No, I completely agree.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: And when I was younger, and even when I was
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: you know, in these very serious situations, I have a
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: lot of you know, anxiety about money just from growing
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: up without money.
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: So it can feel very uh.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Invasive to talk to people about that. But if you
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: are going to build a future with someone, it is
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the same as a business. If we go into business
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: together and I have defaulted on loans, and I have
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: leans on properties, and I, you know, have this much
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: debt and so I'm going to want to get a
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: return right away and all these things, and we go
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: into business and don't talk about that.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: That's a bad business arrangement.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: So I just think that the branding of of prenups
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: is just very there's just a.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Lot of taboo also run anything money related.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: Right. This country was.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: I wanted to say, invaded, reformed by people who it
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: wasn't right byllized by by people who didn't necessarily they
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: wanted to get away from talking about money, and they
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: were the humble folk, right. So there's this there's this
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: culture of you talking about money is just a faux pas.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: It's not especially a woman doing it. You're not allowed
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: to talk about those things or else your new money,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: or you didn't grow up correctly or whatever.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: The crazy thing is those people that have money, they
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: are talking about money.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: How much money you got here for money? Are we
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: talk about money the most? You know how this money works? Yeah,
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: they just don't like the way that we're talking about it.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're talking about it every day in their
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: businesses and in their investment.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: When they get married, they are talking about it like
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: that's why that that's why that mama is like uh uh, yeah,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: she ain't.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: All their stuff is in trusts and wills and you know,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: different formats to make sure that nobody goes and messes
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: up the entire family fund.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: There's all of that exists.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: But listen, I get you not wanting to get a
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: prenup early on.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: I've been before.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I well, I guess with the time that I got married,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I've been engaged four times.
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: I was just like, I was a lover of becoming
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: a wife. That was.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I grew up in a culture and in a family
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: where that was the pinnacle of success. So everything I
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: did in my life was in order to make me
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: a more desirable, more desirable wife, right, So go get
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: the degrees, and go do this, and do that, and
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: and just so that the best of the best will
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: then want to marry you, right, because people do want
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: to marry in their own proximity. But at the time,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I obviously when I was younger, when I got married
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the first time, I didn't sign a prenup.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: But I mean that relationship was just all.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Of it probably different, It was different, it was different times.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I I you talked about the prenup
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: with Cammi, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I've
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I've been familiar with it and just the stigma around
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: it for so long and then now having been married
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: and just you know, obviously most of our friends are
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: married or getting married, and we just have more information
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: now that the and I see so obviously social media
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: as a wormhole of nonsense, but just the people who
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: are like if if she won't sign a prenup, d like,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: who are you talking to?
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: Who are you? Who are you talking to? Who?
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: For what I know, And it's always the people who
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: have two birthdays and some hey, like anybody wants her
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: bricks or hey.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: They can't make another brick because I can say that, hey, no,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: like it's and listen, you should want her to sign
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a prenup.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, these it doesn't mean well.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: I also think the other part of the prenup conversation
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: is that people feel like you're preparing for it to end.
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: I think, I'm but then, why do you have insurance?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Why do you why do you have insurance when you
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: go to the doctor, Are you preparing to die? You
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: just know that it's a possibility, right right? Why are
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: you wearing a seatbelt? Are you prepared to get into
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: a car act? Why are you wearing sunscreen? Are you
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: gonna get skin cancer? You should just not do anything,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: but you can't engage with I do think that prenups
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: are for sophisticated parties, and it's okay for us to
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: acknowledge that not everybody is a sophisticated party and just
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: move on.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Some people health the dumb dumbs.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: Divorce court needs to exist for some people, right or
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: what are they going to go out of business?
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: It needs to exist.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: Divorce attorneys need to exist in order to make money
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: off of these people, Like I don't even engage, have
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: a prenup or don't I know that I do. When
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I talk to Camy about it and we were talking
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: about the prenup, I sent her mind, I have not,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: you know, that's that's that's a homegirl. I' obviously not
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: going to publicly share it, but that's the whole part
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: of having friends who are going through important things and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: then sharing that knowledge. You might not have an idea
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: of the possibility of what you could even ask for
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: until you like look at mine or look at someone else's.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: That's yeah.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: But I also like, you're not asking for it, no
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: demand to me, know, but it's like, these are the
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: things that you want. This is a partnership and as
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: long as it's it's reasonable, then that's.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: What it should be.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: That's what that's what actually a real negotiation. Everyone is
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: not going to get what they want. You both you
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: both should feel like you got somethings and you lost
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: some things.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I said this came.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I went in there and I said I want your company,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: and Eric was like, I was like love. So I
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: was like, fifty percent of that company is mine. He's like, no, girls,
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: what about like a messing schedule or something.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: But you got to go in and demand.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: You get to know a lot about your the person
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that you're with when you negotiate with them as well.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, which is which is good to know before
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: you're going to partnership in a partnership.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: So I really wanted to talk to you about surrogacy.
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: Let's do it.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: You have a beautiful and most beautiful little girl in
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: the world, my little niece, Snowy, and I'm just I'm
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: fascinated with surrogacy. I know a few people that have
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: done it, but I haven't really talked to them about
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: their experience or the journey.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: So what made you want to get a circuit?
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: So I very early on in my journey in my
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: trying to have kids, I had two ectopic pregnancies back
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: to back. That's when the child forms in your filopian
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: tube and out of your uterus. The second one resulted
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: in my philopian tube bursting and I was told that
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: my chances of naturally getting pregnant would go down to
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: two percent. That's when I did IVF with Eric. We
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: created our embryos, I did an embryo transfer.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: It failed. All in all, I've had a.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Total of eight to nine both chemical pregnancies and miscarriages
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: before having NOE. When I was pregnant with Noe, the
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: anxiety that I had that I.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Was going to lose her was crippling.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, every time I would go to the bathroom,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: when I would wipe, I would expect for there to
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: be blood. There was just this feeling that I Am
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: not going to ever be able to become a mother,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: so much so that I took a break from practicing
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: because so much of my job was emotional base and
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: I just couldn't bring that over. So when it came
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: time to having a bigger family, and this is a
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: conversation that again have it early on Eric and I
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: had before we were married. He said he wanted five
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: or six kids. I said, what, I don't know if
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I could do five or six kids. Also, you're putting
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: your body through a lot. Yeah, And so that's the
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: first time that I started thinking about surrogacy.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Is that an option. My best friend is one of
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: the top surrogacy attorneys in LA. So the entire.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: World isn't as new to me as it is for
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: other people. Surrogacy can be a field where there's a
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: lot of unethical things that are happening. That's why it's
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: really important that you have good lawyers, you find a
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: good surrogate, you go with a good agency, and that's
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: kind of what we did.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: We went with an agency.
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: That was able to start sending us profiles of people
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: every week, and we found someone that we loved. My
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: circuit has three kids of her own, she's married, she
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: lives in Atlanta. She generally has really easy pregnancies. I
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: spent a lot of time talking to her making sure
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: that she was in a good place to do this.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: A lot of comments I get are people saying, well, yeah,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: they have to you're exploiting the poor.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: My circuit's not poor. I don't I don't know where
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: this is coming from.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: She's obviously not a millionaire, but she's very much so
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: financially stable, and okay, you have to be. And that's
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: what a good agency is going to do. They're going
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: to find people who are not doing this because of
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: economic reasons. They want to give this gift to other families.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: They have easy pregnancies, and she's having every time I
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: talk to her, she's like, I'm having a great time.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: So I don't know what to tell you. Some people
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: really do know.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: Some people avant and she looks good. Yeah, and they
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: carry it well and they're just yeah, I just have
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of kids. Well, I wouldn't say they have
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: the easiest pregnancies, but my my mother had five children
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: and my older sister has five kids. Yeah, and they've
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: had miscarriages as well, but they are you know, they've
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: had a lot geang of kids. Yeah, my grandmother had
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: like nine or ten she was she stayed pregnant.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: Here did you?
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: And Eric just like, did he want to use a surrogate? Yeah,
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Like he was comfortable with that. He was very comfortable
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: with it.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: There are a couple of his mentors whose wives did
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: surrogacy or whose families did surrogacy, and so it wasn't
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: a new concept for him. It was something that he
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: had thought about and he was interested in. It was
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: just a matter of finding someone that would fit our
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: life and who understood what we were trying to do.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't I would say it was more of
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: a new thing for me, and for him it was
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: more resolved. He knew that if some men really care
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: about whether or not you carry the child, I am
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: not with.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: Someone who who's like that.
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: Well, that's why I asked, because I've I have had
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: this conversation with quite a few men because I have
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: no intention of ever being pregnant and I.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: But also I don't I don't want kids.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: But like the that conversation has been like, well do
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: you even like what about a surrogate?
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: And they're like, no, you have to be pregnant, And I'm.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, no, no you're not. It was already no,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: but it's like, why do I have to be?
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: Because for them?
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: And I don't think that all men are like this,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: but I do think for the for some of these
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: men that I am referring to, they like the idea
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: of Joy Taylor of being pregnant.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: They like they want to look at you and say,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I am pregnated. Correct, Right, there's there's a there's a
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: power dynamic and you walk around with your belly and
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: they know.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Who got you pregnant. It's a whole thing.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Do you really didn't have or did you have the
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: conversation like if you weren't, if you hadn't had, no
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: e that it was still going to be a thing.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: From the beginning, he didn't really care.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: He just wanted to have a Yeah, he said, very
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: very early on, I know the risks that pregnancy can
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: impose on you. And he watched me try naturally so much,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: and also IVF is not easy. Yeah, you're you're shooting
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: yourself up with hormones for thirteen weeks, and so my
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: surrogate had to do that as well, and he watched
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: the mental toll that it took on me.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: At no point.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: Did he expect for me to be the one caring,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: but I'm sure obviously caring. NOI there was there was
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: a beauty in that. So I wanted to go through
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: that experience at least once, you know, just to know
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: what it feels like. So what's the process of picking
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: the circus to get these profiles? And the profiles say
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: there BMI, their age, they're away, their diet, they're family,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: how many kids they have, if they've been a surrogate before,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: when they gave birth, how many weeks so long they
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: were the relationship.
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: It's kind of like a.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Dating profile really, but more extensive because you get all
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: their health records and how active they are, who's their
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: support system, if they're willing to work with the same
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: sex couples or not, if they have any stance on religion,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: like they really go deep into it, and for me,
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: it was kind of a gut reaction.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: If I look at you, do I like you or not?
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Just right off the bat, and then we then have
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: a conversation, Okay, where do you live, what's your day
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: to day like, what's your day job? If you're always
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: on your feet, I don't want you to be constantly
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: stressed and worried. How many kids do you have? Do
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: you have a support system? Are you in a toxic
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: relationship or not? Because the last thing I need?
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Are you single? Right? Are you having sex with a
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: lot of people?
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: All of these considerations go into place, and I wanted
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: someone who had a stable partner, is having sex with
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: that one person and has kids of their own, and
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: you have to as a sorry that you have to
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: have kids of your own, has kids of their own,
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: has the support system, and just kind of has a wealthun.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Why do you have to have kids of your own?
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I think part of it is so that they you
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: know what it feels like when something is yours. If
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: this is the first time you're carrying, that's a lot
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: of hormones, and so you might have an unhealthy attachment
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: to someone else's child.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: That makes sense, so that like the first one can't
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: be the one that you give away.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then how do you know if you have
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: easy pregnancies? What if this is the worst pregnancy ever?
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: What if you don't know? What if you don't care?
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: You well, now you're on bed rest. Now it feels
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: unethical that that you're pregnant and that you're carrying our child.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: All of that.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: What's the what's the legal process? Like, what's the process once?
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Like like what you be there when she gives birth?
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so a lot of this is up for negotiation,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: and you can you speak to your surrogate and you
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: find out what she wants to do, what you want
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: to do.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: These they're having a conversation.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: And for example, my circuit's in Atlanta, so she's typically
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: given birth that's thirty seven weeks.
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: So around thirty seven weeks.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: I'm probably going to pack up and go to Atlanta
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: and wait because I don't want to miss I don't
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: want to miss her giving birth. She has also had
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: three kids, so it's giving My son will be born
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: in twenty two seconds, you know, like that boy's about
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: this line out. So I go there and I wait.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: And the conversation that her and I had was, if
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: they allow only two people in the room, who do
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: you want those two to be?
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: Do you want it to be your husband and me?
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: Do you want it to be me and my husband?
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: And so we decided that she would depending on how
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: she was feeling, she would decide between the men, but
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: that I would definitely be in the room with her.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: And then we start doing the paperwork with another lawyer
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: in Georgia ahead of time, so the hospital already knows
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: this is our child. They're not about to track us
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: down and say where you're going with that baby. As
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: soon as baby boy is born, I'm in the room
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: and I'm in a robe, and he immediately comes onto
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: my skin for skin to skin contact, And.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Do you talk about like what is going to happen afterwards?
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Like he's not gonna have any contact, What are you
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: going to do with that?
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: That's something that she's open to. She said that she
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: would love to get some pictures here and there. That
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: really depends on who you are as a person. I
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: formed a relationship with her. Her daughter's birthdays have come up,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: so I've sent gifts over. I sent her to the
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: spa every couple of weeks. That's my friend, you know,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: and she's she's giving me this gift. Now, so the
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: least you could do is send a picture once a
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: year on a birthday.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, but some people don't want to do that.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: Is it like, does that form an unhealthy attachment?
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's fair for some people, it does, which is
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: why some families they say, once, give us our baby
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: and goodbye. We don't even want to talk to you.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: They don't check on the surrogate. They don't check on
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: how she's doing.
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: It's just like that feels for yours.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: To me, it feels very I'm using your womb, but
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: in an unethical way.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: I think there's a way that you can do this
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: in a kinder, more human way, but you.
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: Have like full legal protections. I have full legal protections.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like she can never come up and come clean
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: now because this is it's my embryo, right, So in
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: the contract it already says that this embryo was created
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: using my egg and his sperm.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: It's my baby, and then you know the date that
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: it was implanted in her. There's so many legal steps
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: that you have to go through and because my best
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: friend is my attorney. She just kind of handled it all,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: didn't really bother me with it. Yeah, but there's so
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: many people who have to sign off and who have
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: to attest and say I did this, and I implanted
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: and it is the embryo and whatever, so many times.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: And they also provide for the surrogate therapy once a
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: week in order to make sure that they understand what's
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: going on and that they're processing things correctly. It's so fascinating,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: it's really crazy. I'm not gonna lie to you. I
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: as someone who's doing it again. This is what I
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: mean by I feel like the oldest child because I
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: don't really have anyone to talk to about this as well.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of fears that I have. Right I'm
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: a mother. What if baby boy is born and she's
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: going through such a rush of postpartum that she feels
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: like she wants to see him more?
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Or what if I don't form that attachment right away?
• 39:24
  Speaker 3: What is it going to feel like?
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Am I going to compare it to the way that
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: I had knowe and the way I felt There's all
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: of those feelings.
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and no, he's actually still very little, so she
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: may not necessarily be such an adjustment for her.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, less about NOE and more about how I felt
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: when I gave birth to know. Yeah, yeah, Will I
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: feel the same way, I don't know. It might be
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: different from the articles that I've read and friends of
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: friends that I've talked to, they say that it takes
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: a second for some people, and that that's okay.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Do you feel any sense of judgment or have you
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: experienced any judgment from people that you care about, not
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: like the Internet.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: People that I care about.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: No, And if they do, they're probably too scared to
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: tell me anything. No.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: But I mean like sometimes people's families get very people
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: get even weird about IVF, which I just I think.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: I'm like, can you guys make up your fucking mind. Yeah,
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: you want nobody, but now nobody's supposed to do IVF.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: If you want everybody to have families, but nobody's supposed
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: Do do a surrogate?
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: Like everything's got to be natural left robe or something.
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: I haven't.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: No one has has said anything to me, but I
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: think again, that's it's the way that I live my life.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: It's not for discussion. I am doing. I am I
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: am my surrogate is pregnant. I don't really give a
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: fuck how you feel. I'm notifying you. It's not a conversation, right.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I definitely don't think it was my mom's first option,
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: but it also wasn't a thing that she had a
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: problem with.
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: She knows the fertility journey.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, do you want more grandchildren or not?
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Because it's in a safe way, yes or not? Yeah,
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: And I'm glad that you're prioritizing your you know, your
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: health and all of it too, because, like you know,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: everyone wouldn't know. No one ever knows, and people just
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: assume that you know you aren't having children because you're
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: being selfish or because you guys haven't planned for it
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: yet like people do not You're not sharing every miscarriage
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: that you have, every you know, failed pregnancy.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure that I even mind women who don't
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: have fertility issues going to surrogac here out you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I've been I have a couple of guy friends and
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: they told me that they've been going on dates recently,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: and when they talk about kids, women have been saying,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I don't want to carry I want to have a surrogate.
• 41:34
  Speaker 3: I don't really know where I stand on that issue.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Telling women that they have to carry kids if they
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: can feels very weird. But then the the overuse of
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: other people's wombs also feel feels a little weird to me.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know that it'll ever become an overuse
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: because it's a very expensive process, very expensive and very complicated,
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: I guess.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Reserved for a certain class class of people.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, well it's it's it's kind of like the
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: like how the C section has become glamorous.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: Like it's a horrific searcher. Yeah, yeah, like it's very
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: in and out. Yeah, it's not, it's not.
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: It's it's in many cases a much longer roads to
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: recovery than natural birth. Yeah, is there any Obviously you
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: get a lot of information, but is there any like physical,
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Like it's it's totally your baby, there's no physical.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: There's been some minor studies that don't have enough backing
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: that some of the mother's DNA gets into the baby.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: There hasn't been enough support for that. I don't think
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: we as a society in general know enough about pregnancy. Yeah,
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: what we know is very surface level. There's new information
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: that's coming out every single day. About pregnancy, the impact
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: that it has on the woman's body, on her health,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: on the baby. You know, it's recently that people have
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: been saying that the man's health has an impact on
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: your plus Like, why are we just realizing this right? Well,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: because every study is for men exactly so, because our
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: bodies have not actually been studied the way that it's
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: they're supposed to be.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: I can't really answer without a doubt.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Oh no, nothing will happen, which is why you got
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: to make sure your surrogate isn't baddie.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: That baddie.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what I.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Know.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: You lose her ass, weirdo. She sent me a picture
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: the other day for her daughter's birthday and she's just
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: so she's fine. So I mean, what is going to
• 43:32
  Speaker 3: get into my baby? If I wasn't going to carry him, it.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Was it was meant to be another fine woman, So
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I'll take it.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: I knew that was going to be your answer, because
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: I know you.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: But did you did you consider like someone does look
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: like you?
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: No, she's Latina, which I guess in certain if my
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: hair was like you, like, does she favor you at all?
• 43:55
  Speaker 3: Not at all?
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, she's just a cute, little five three Latina with
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: she does not favor you.
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't. When when Samar rocked and I had
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: my sneakers on, I was like, hello, how are you?
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: I'm six feet without you? Yeah, so with heels, I'm
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: six four. Maybe every time we hung out, but before
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: I just always had heels on because I didn't feel
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: like you were that much taller than me.
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: But Sar is taller than me. I'm very tall.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: I also don't care, thank you. I also don't have
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: here as tall as I am. But she's hair down
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: to her but big old boobs.
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: You know. I went for the opposite of everything that
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: I am. But I love her. She's hot. That's that's uh,
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: that's great.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: I knew you were going to pick a baddy though
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: I couldn't like when I said, I had gut reactions.
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: I have to. I have to esthetically favor you're carrying
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: my child. You also, I don't. I don't.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not having children. But like there's if
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: you're judging I don't care like you should. You should
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: your child should be in if you're going to get
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: a surrogate in in every way something that you feel
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: comfortable with.
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, judge, what are you? I don't want an ugly surrogate.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: It's my surrogate. People are gonna judge you for this.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I don't know what to tell you. It's
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: my surrogate. You go get you an ugly surrogate.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: Get your money up and get a surrogate and pick
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: the ugliest one.
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know what to tell you.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Wow, it's just it's so I've never like really had
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: a conversation about it, and we hadn't really talked in
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: depth about it. So I I, I'm excited for you, though,
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: I'm really excited.
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: I'm nervous.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: She has her anatomy scan in a week, which is
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: when they check everything to make sure things are going well.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: But she's already twenty one weeks, so time is flying.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: And then talk about identity crisis. I'm barely catching on
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: to what's happening. Being a new mom and then becoming
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: a mom of two is it's a lot. Yeah, But
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: you're you're, you're you're taking on motherhood.
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: So I love it.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: I I you know, I was telling you that I
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: heard you say that you never thought about being a
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: wife and you didn't aspire to it.
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: But I aspired to be a wife and a mom.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: A lot of people are taken back by the fact
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: that I don't really want to practice the same way
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: and I want to focus on my daughter. When you're
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: successful and you're educated, and you're intelligent and you're good
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: at something, taking a break to go towards mommyhood feels
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: regressive for some people. But for me, there has never
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: been something that I've loved enough to miss out on
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: things with noe.
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, I think that's part of the traditional
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: conversation that it's and I don't I don't throw well
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: for lack of atter term.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: When it comes to feminism, because so much of like
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: the push against feminism is that it is actually anti
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: traditional woman, and the reality is it's not. It's the
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: ability for a woman to choose whatever her path in
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: the way that men have the ability to choose whatever
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: they want. Where I would say that some women who
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: are on the extreme side of not feminism, but of
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: the idea of what a woman is defined as would
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: be the women who fall into that category. And the
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: story I told it was that, you know, my older
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: sister has five children and now she has two grandchildren.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: And she always wanted to be a wife and mother,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: and to me, she's wildly successful because she did what
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: she wanted to do. She would be unhappy with my life,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: like I would be unhappy with her life. But for you,
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: and in these different phases, you also have a right
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: to change your mind. And it may be a point
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: where you were like, this is all I'm ever going to.
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Do exactly, And I think I'm giving myself the opportunity
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: to choose whatever I want to do.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: Every single day. Yeah.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: So if I want to stay home with my daughter
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: and I want to focus on her and I want
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: to capture these beautiful moments with her, I'm going to
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: do that. If when she's five or six, I feel
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: differently and I want to get back into the workforce,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: I can do that. I made sure that I could
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: do that because I went and got the degrees in
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: order to do that. You know, so I hedged against
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: being able to change my mind and giving myself all
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: of the options. But right now, I'm just I'm happy
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: where I'm at. I was talking to my therapist the
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: other day and I said, I feel like I'm not
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: working towards anything specific, and that's making me feel like
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not doing enough. And he asked me, is there
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: anything you want to work towards? And I said, aside
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: from being a mom, I don't really have some big goal.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: But when you're a high achieving person, it feels really
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: shitty when you're not aspiring to be the next so
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: and so and to be on the next magazine cover.
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: You know, I feel like I should want those things,
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: but I just don't, and so the fact that I'm
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: not chasing after them feels weird.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: Well, there's also I totally understand that and in a
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: lot of ways relate, even though it's obviously not in
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: the sense of motherhood. But there are chapters in your
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: life where, even if you are aspirational, it's not about
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: aspiring to a goal, it's about existing in the.
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: Thing that you aspired to.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: Like you aspired to be a wife and mother, and
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: just like you aspired to be a lawyer, and once
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: you accomplish those things, there is a chapter where you
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: live in that level of aspiration and it's not a plateau.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: It's a space of something that you worked for. So
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: it's not every goal isn't like Okay, I did this thing,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Now what's the next thing? Like that is a little psychologic.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm used to, just being the psychotic person.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: But the bigger goals, the massive goals, are the ones
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: that you're supposed to enjoy.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think I'm just taking every day to
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: enjoy this and then taking in the little moments before
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: he comes. And now I'm sharing my attention between two
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: of them, you know, I want to She might not
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: remember these moments, but her nervous system will.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And so that's really really important to me.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: I remember so much of my childhood being fraught with
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: fights and arguments, and I just didn't always grow up
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: in the best loving environment. My parents intended to love me,
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: but that didn't always transfer. And I want to give
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Noe something different because I chose her. I brought her
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: into this world. So there's a responsibility that I have
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: to her. I don't think she really has a responsibility
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: to me. I think the responsibility is for me to her.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: I think so much of society is has failed children. Yeah,
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: And this, this particular moment is wildly I don't even
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: know if it's disappointing because I don't know what expectations
• 50:36
  Speaker 2: I had of society, but in some sort of naive say,
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: I just at least a little bit bought into the like, yeah,
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: we're supposed to be taking care of the kids, we
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: care about it. I'm like, I don't want to give
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: a I don't give a fuck what anyone has to
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: say about.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: Talk to me about something else. Y'all don't give a
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: fuck about these kids. They hate the kids. Titanic was propaganda.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: They would today's they would.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Kid and it would have been all the adults on
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: the on the field goal practice.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: They wouldn't have cared.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I like about the I posted a video a story
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: the other day two three weeks ago saying I feel
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: really bad for the Runnian people, for my people, because
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: they're in a lose lose situation. There was a loss
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: being under the regime. The other choice is being bombed.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to celebrate that. I'm not going to
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: jump up and down because the kids are dying. And
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: some woman took that and ran with it and created
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: all of these videos about me saying how come you're
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: not mourning the children who died under the regime and
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: you only care about the children who are being bombed
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: by the US, and they that's just the cost of war,
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: that's just what happens. I thought, I just thought there
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: was we drew the line of children.
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: No, we don't.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: We don't care about that. We don't give a fuck
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: about these kids at all. And by we, I'm not
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: talking about me or me. Yeah, y'all don't give a
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: fuck about these kids at all. These birthers, get off
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: my goddamn nerves. You do not care about these children.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: In America, specifically in the country that we live in,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: children are not a priority. And that's why this whole
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: birth or movement, this whole family movement, fuck off, y'all.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: These babies get sent to school with men walking around
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: with machine guns because we care more about people being
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: able to have a mental breakdown and walk into a
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: store and buy a gun than we do about kids.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: You don't have any fucking maternal rights after you have children,
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: for leave. Everybody isn't in a position to just stay
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: home and take care of their kids.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: Childcare is a joke. Medical bills are insane.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: It costs thousands of dollars to even give birth on
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: a basic level.
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: Your kind of high level you're a crazy person if
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: you go and get an abortion. Yeah, you're a murder.
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: You're a murder. Yeah. It's it's exhausting. We don't give
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: a fuck about these kids.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: And that's that's part of what makes me really sad
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: for where we are right now, because I would I
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: would like to at least function in a society. When
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: I say a society, I'm just talking about the States
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: because that's where I live, and that's the laws and
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: the places where I vote. There are plenty of places
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: around the country that very much care, around the world,
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: that very much care about children and community and family,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: and their their laws reflect that. Nowhere is perfect, obviously,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: but we are fucked up and we don't even care
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: about education. We don't care what they're eating. No, we
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: don't care about the exercise they get. We don't care
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: about them being safe on the internets, and most of all,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: motherfuckers are eating children.
• 53:28
  Speaker 3: That's fucking crazy. And why did we move on from that? Well,
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: because what am I supposed to do? What am I
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: going to do? In facts? Who am I supposed to stab?
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: I'd love to stab someone, but I don't think I
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: can get to them.
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: They didn't do shit, they didn't do.
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: They shot those files like you're gonna read this ship,
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: throw up and get on with your life.
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: They actually moved.
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: There was there's more commotion on a New York Times
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: bestselling cookbook that it was on the Epstein Fils.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: They threw that shit down and walked away. But I mean,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: we were making baby Jerky's.
• 53:59
  Speaker 3: That's that's just so fucking crazy. Oh my god, I'm
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: going to talk about these kids. It is cool.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: It is so overwhelming to like my every time I
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: think about it and like talk about it. It's just
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: it is so unnerving to me that people have the
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: audacity to go like protest at an anti abortion protest,
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: or talk about people not having children, or shame women
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: for not having kids, or talk about how the family
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: structures deteriorated, or women are back in the kitchen they're
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: eating children. Liv go take care of that. I don't
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: want to hear another word about anything until you take
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: care of that. It's not it's not just like, Okay,
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: these are the elites and we can't get to them.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: There are like there's so many pedophiles handle it, but
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: why would they handle it? They are the Vener files.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: But that's the thing those people who are mad to
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: handle I can't. Well, we are well, we need It
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: was so overwhelming to me. I guess it's the world.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: What we knew about law and order. You can only
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: imagine how we feel.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: We went to law school, learned about court cases, learned
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: about Roe v.
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: Wade, and then laws are just getting changed left and right.
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: I don't even know why what I paid everything that
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: I did in law school for none of the laws
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: even apply or work anymore.
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: Y'all taught me the wrong shit. It changed, Like what
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: did I pay all that money for?
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: We don't even have good public education, public school education anymore.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: So now there's this whole I don't know if you
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: saw in New York, and it's kind of the same
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: thing in LA. Trying to get your kid into a
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: private school. It's like a two percent chance, and they
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: called it a blood bath trying to get these two
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: three year olds.
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: Shouldn't need to have a bath to get a three
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: year old into a proper, a proper school.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there should be good public schools that kids can
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: go to where you know that they're saying they're not
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: going to though. We got to, we gotta get more
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: security for the private school kids, because that's those are
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: the ones.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Whose lives matter. All lives matter, private private school kids
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: gets lives matter.
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: You know, It's it's it really is crazy.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: It's it's overwhelming to me, like as someone who genuinely
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: like I love children and I love the children in
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: my life, and I mean, I just I it's heartbreaking,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: but it's also feels very helpless, and I don't feel
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: like people are mad enough.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I think it's what you said, though, what are people
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: going to do about it? So much of Barnes's bitch
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: to the ground do something. I mean, the people who
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: are ship on fire, the people who are trying to
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: are You have to understand that when ice was was
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: pushed out and they got to start arresting people left
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: and right and doing whatever, and people are getting murdered
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: left and right, and there is no justice. That kind
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: of put everything into perspective. People are scared. I don't
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: know about you, but I live in I live in fear.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: I'm at the end of the day, I'm an immigrant,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: you citizen, motherfucker. But but but you know there's always.
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm a black woman, They're not coming for me.
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: They're not coming from me, and I am not from
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: here getting dust in the corner in a box in
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: the corner.
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: After this election, I was like, oh, I'm hanging it up.
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: And Adam marched, Adam posted, and I have done my
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: advocacy work and people are not listening. So it's it's
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: now consequence time. You're right, people are scared. People are
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: people are scared.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: No one's going into education anymore because it's expensive.
• 57:33
  Speaker 3: Who can afford risking your life?
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: This is what I mean. So you're gonna go. You're
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: gonna go spend all of this time and money to
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: become a lawyer, a doctor or surgeon. Respectfully, you can
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: make more money as a content creator. And in this economy,
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: people are now going down that way.
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: No, I'm being Also, you have to make content on
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: top of being a doctor.
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: So people are like, let's just cut out the degree.
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: What's the point do we even have plumbers anymore?
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: Well, no one listens to doctors anyway, because you have
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: you have a you know, like raw hide to chew
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: on or whatever the new trend is like, So you
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: don't cheese doesn't matter anyway.
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: Just cotta cheese and protein. I hate cottage cheese. Do
• 58:11
  Speaker 3: you like cotta cheese?
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: So?
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: What the fuck? Why would I like anything that looks
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: like that? I don't get it for me. No, I
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: need things to aesthetically look good. It looks like throw up. No,
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: it's disgusting. And I don't want to eat as much protein.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: Everyone is telling me to eat. I'm not doing it.
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I pushed back on that as well. I need to,
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: but like I just it's I'm proteined out.
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: I can't. I will eat a steak. I love a
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: good steak. This conversation was children. It's some real children.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: They're eating the children too. I love a good steak.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: I don't think I got to any of my questions
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: except for the surrogacy one. We have to we have
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: to go back to that restaurant again and see if
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: we get better service.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: We didn't need to say it was crazy.
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: It was crazy. No, but their their food is phenomenal.
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: I recommend them to everybody. Just cut that one out. Well,
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: we edit that.
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: I was just trying to remotely talk about our girl hangs.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: Oh well, I'm very proud of you. I want you
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: to know that I know in lots of our chats
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think you.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: Doubt yourself at all.
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: I think that all of us need a little shove
• 59:22
  Speaker 2: every once in a while. You give me a lot
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: of inspiration because you're you're always you're always speaking very strongly,
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: and I know you're going through a.
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: Lot of a lot of different things right now.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: And you know what's happening in the world, Like, you know,
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: we're kind of joking about these horrible things, but it's
• 59:39
  Speaker 2: really it's really a real thing that is that's affecting everyone,
• 59:45
  Speaker 2: and it has you know, it has real life consequences
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: like these abstracts.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Grandmother's neighborhood was bombed, Yeah, and her neighbors were killed.
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: These are the women that she was kiking with for
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: forty fifty years, you know, and out a few they
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: had to go to another city.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's like, what are we doing here? Yeah?
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: People are just dying left and right, and it's it's
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: hard because what do you You just supposed to get
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: up and just keep moving, you know, keep making content
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: and literally keep making content.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: I'm over it. Well, I'm so sorry that happened.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: And I can't imagine like just the day to day
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: anxiety that you're you're dealing with with this whole situation
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: in this absolute madman that we're all being subjected to.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: It's scary.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And then I understand why so many people don't
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: want to have kids, and I feel sometimes what am
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: I doing bringing children into this world?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: You know? But hopefully I can.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: You don't know, his middle name is Riot for a reason,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: and I tell people that all the time. We're big
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: Malcolm X, James Baldwin and family. So I hope that
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: I raise a generation of fighters.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: You will.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: And you know, I while I've very much subscribe to
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: that hole. I mean, they've they've been eating white people
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: have been eating kids for a long time, so that's
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: not really new.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: But it's it's very scary to think that.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: You know, in times in the past, they didn't have
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: the capacity to destroy the entire world, and we now
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: have the machines and the technology if these fucking idiots
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: do to do that, like to literally end civilization, and
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: that feels more daunting. But you know, we get to
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: go to beautiful restaurants and complain about the service. We
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: get to pay for circuits and have free depths, and
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: you know, have beautiful homes and we have great lives,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: and there is a blessing in that also, and I
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: try to remember that. You know, our ancestors went through
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: some pretty horrific things and they had children and they
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: moves forward.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: And when people say this is the worst time we've
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: ever lived in, this is not the worst.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: Maybe for you. I mean, we have we have Wi Fi.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: This is not the worst.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: This is not the worst. What are you talking about?
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: Like this is pretty bad? But Jim, I'm just son,
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: there there are worse times. There was there was a
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: whole there was a whole chapter like where they.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: Were eating everybody.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah everybody, Yeah out in the open yeah, well not
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: everywhere they're eating black people open.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's it is. It is a lot. I'm
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 3: trying to.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: I was told by my therapists I need to take
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: a break. I don't think I don't think I am.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: I'm doing a bad job. I've been I bomb everybody
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: with just just absolutely berate everyone with with constant horrible
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: posts from my algorithm, like you.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: No, my awful.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: That's how my mom is like that. She and it's
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: radicalizing her every day And I'm like, mom, what are
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: you going to do in your little hit job. Just
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: sit down, girl, Just sit down.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 3: I had to. I had to change my algorithm. I can't.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: You can't consume doom every second and not have anything
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: to do about it. Yeah, And I feel hopeless and
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: helpless because you are to a certain extent. How many
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: organizations can I donate to? How many luncheons can I have?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: How much all of the things that we're talking about.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: We keep talking to each other about it, but we don't.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: You don't need to convince me. I believe you. You
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: know what I mean. And we can't.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: We can't make it out to the people who don't
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: agree with us. So what are we doing?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, if God wants to come back from
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: vacation and do his big one, we're ready.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: Just something, just even a small one, yeah, just just
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: something we need.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: Just it's just one. If he wants to do more,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: I feel like he has some flexibility. You had your
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: time in Turks all right enough already, Thank you so
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: much for coming by. Amazing and I hope you know
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: you everything that you've talked about really help someone who
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: was very informative for me. I feel like I'm going
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: to go into my next I'm not having a kid
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: conversation with way more information.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, I'm not having a kid, and these
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: are more more and it's going too as well.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: So Har does amazing, amazing content on lots of different
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: topics because she's a multifaceted, incredibly intelligent, educated, wonderful person.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: But I love your content, and go and follow her
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: at Sahar koram s A h A r k h
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: O r r A m M. And we'll also post
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: it as well. It'll it'll pop up whenever you put
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: in Sahar.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think there's there's that many.
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but thank you so much for coming. But really here,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: I love you