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Bonus Patreon Release: Typeface! With Paul Jenkins and Sean Beveriedge! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Graham Oak and Lane Patreon channel, where we get to talk about oft overlooked characters who definitely deserve a little bit more focus.
• 0:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I've been featuring my content around whatever the academic panel is on the main show.
• 0:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be our first episode in March on the Patreon.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: The theme on the main show in March is gimmicks.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to be doing the trial of Stilt Man at the oven of the month, so be prepared.
• 0:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love this character.
• 0:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Rampage is in there as well.
• 0:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: with our champions crew doing a big script read.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And over here on the Patreon channel, we're going to cover some of Marvel's weirdest and wildest villains opening today with typeface.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you can watch for episodes on Lady Stiltman, Dead Winger and the Walrus.
• 0:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're going to take you to some joyful nonsense all this month on the show.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am thrilled to be joined with Sean Beverage, my dear friend, who does the voice of Banshee on our script reads and the incredible and hilarious Paul Jenkins, the creator of Typeface, which I know is the first thing you list on your resume, Paul.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's literally, it's the thing that I announced proudly to strangers when I walk into a room.
• 1:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just say, hi, I'm here, and I create Typeface.
• 1:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they say, huh?
• 1:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we got to open.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know Sean is a Paul Jenkins super fan.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I also am, but this is Paul's or this is Sean's first time meeting Paul.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to create some room for some proper fanboying.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sean, please take their days.
• 1:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So Paul, your name on a book is a reason for me to buy it just just you were like I was like Oh my god, there's a second volume of revelations.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's just a re-printing of the first one.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: I already have that So I have revelations.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have both volumes of very quest that came out in individual issue form.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are three of them.
• 1:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a third one.
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, I'm going to go look for that.
• 1:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that by Humberto Ramles too?
• 1:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, we don't go at different artists in to do it, Mike Bowden.
• 1:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but he did a fantastic job, so yeah.
• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to go find that.
• 2:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
• 2:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I told, so I work in a comic book store and I actually am missing my shift right now.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I told my boss, no, no, no, I'm going to be talking to Paul Jenkins.
• 2:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, cool.
• 2:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's the reason.
• 2:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Century mini series.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Best reason to miss a comic book shift ever.
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, my boss was like, no, tell me that I'm really excited for the new
• 2:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic and also I'm I'm I'm they announced that I'm doing Captain Marvel as well.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I've got us to really Yeah, yeah, it's in that one I think centuries in March and then Captain Marvel arrives in April So I'm working I just handed in the second script to that the redack is I've been reading Captain Marvel
• 2:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know when I started, but it was long after she had become Captain Marvel.
• 2:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's a fantastic character.
• 2:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of the things I wanted me to do was go back and look at Ms. Marvel and find some stuff, right?
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I go back and I look and I'm like, man, she's an investigative reporter.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is cool.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a bunch of that.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It turns out that we're writing kind of a mystery story, which is really cool.
• 2:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm so excited for that.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be so good.
• 3:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And also, I don't know if you do this, Sean, but I'm the creator of TypeFace.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Kelly Sue DeConnick had written so many brilliant stories, I think, and I really like Kelly Sue's work, and so many people, but out there, you know, there are times when I watch a dude's version of feminism, in some of the older comics, and I'm just hilarious.
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, little man, and when I see this sort of dudes' version of feminism, I'm always a bit like, well, you know, I mean, overtly stating this sounds like you're a dude that is trying to work out how to say something feminist and there are a lot of statements, but not a lot of actions that necessarily relieve a sort of feminist point of view, right?
• 3:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: So she's a really good character, and I've actually a really good time writing her.
• 3:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's interesting.
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's done so much.
• 3:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's been so many different versions of herself.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I happily come back on.
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I see her very much as Mariska Hargate's character from La Norte SVU.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's really how I read Carol Danvers, almost more than anything.
• 4:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I thought of that.
• 4:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a really good way of putting it.
• 4:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: But, yes, I did know that you were the creator of Typeface.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is a story that I specifically wanted to tell on the show while I was here with you.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, Ian.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, pause for a lead-in.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sean, we've been wanting to do a character episode for a little while.
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 4:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I thought the theme is gimmick villains.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: You get to pick and you're like Typeface.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, oh, well, I know Paul Jenkins.
• 4:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, let's do it.
• 4:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why did you pick this character?
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I prefer
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: First off, I love the dumb characters with the theme and this is like the perfect, because I always think of like, comics as this spun is scape as fantasy and when things are grim and gritty and it's always the end of the world at stake, it's less fun, but you know, if Spider-Man swinging around fighting an army of minds in an old silent issue written by Paul Jenkins, it's fantastic.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we're about to have a fantastic conversation, I'll tell you.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we are.
• 5:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: So a quick story that I wanted to tell in April of 2020, my older brother was working at a hotel, which at the time it was really difficult getting any guests that also they'd take anybody, basically, and there was an issue and a guest actually attacked him and put him in the hospital.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: He woke up in the ambulance on the way there.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: They told him, you know, part of the diagnosis was a traumatic brain injury, so he has brain damage.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's okay now.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's okay now, but his therapist gave him a few practices for recovery.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: One of which was to set a 60-second timer, pick a category, and write out as many things in that category as you can think of.
• 5:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: So he tried states, and he got four or five.
• 5:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: He tried colors.
• 5:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: He got four or five.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Took a moment, and he said, obscure spider-man villains.
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't want to do your doctor's octopus.
• 5:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: He didn't want to do your green goblins.
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: The obscure one.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he got 15 on his first try.
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the first one on that list was typeface.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's that's awesome.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's really cool.
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, pause for one second.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is my husband Mike.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's picking up the dog.
• 6:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just thought I'd introduce you guys.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Mike.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Sean and Paul.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: What's up?
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I already know Paul Jenkins well enough to know that things are This is a very silly character, but Paul has a lot of like deep knowledge and like reverence and Like compassion for all kinds of things.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're gonna go to some really fun places.
• 6:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me do a quick introduction I'm gonna read the powers and abilities section from the typeface profile.
• 6:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the handbook nerd, right?
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I did not write this one, but I do have access
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Typeface is a highly skilled military train combatant with particular expertise in explosives and melee combat.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is remarkably strong and agile for his age.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: He also wields a number of letter-themed weapons, including edge-to-end bludgeoning weapons shaped like giant letters, bombs shaped like letter blocks, and knock-out gas emitting scrabble tiles, which is giving
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: In addition, typefaces extremely well read and possesses a BS from the University of Massachusetts.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: See, does.
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: The definition of typefaces is, uh, three, one, the surface of a block of type that makes the impression to the impression made by the surface and three, the size or style of the letter or character on a block of type.
• 7:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it is the year 2000 Paul Jenkins and Mark Buckingham are on Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where did you get the concept for this villain, my friend?
• 7:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, okay.
• 7:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm gonna give you a little insight trading as well because you're gonna be so excited when I tell you this bit, right?
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, Sean, you brought up the minds, which is something that's like really dear to my heart.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So Mark, Mark and I, we had just been given Spider-Man, and I was a very busy guy.
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was doing the, you know, century, maybe working the originally revelations back then.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was doing all these books, so I'd maybe doing four or five books a month.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: and they suddenly put me and Bucky on the book.
• 8:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now Ralph Macchio, the editor at Ask Me for Years, would you do Spider-Man and it was the weirdest thing because I'm like the only person in the world that said, no, right?
• 8:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ralph's a lovely guy, nothing to do with it.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was just I didn't understand what to do because I couldn't work out what the continuity was.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said,
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: If I can do it where I just do simple issues and I just don't do continuity, they finally said yes, they give me the job and then they basically say to me, and Mark, can you have the first issue going literally, could you have done it last week?
• 8:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And well, you put us behind the eight more and published it, that didn't take long, right?
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I get on the phone with Bucky, and it will be one of the 10 core memories that I direct is my phone call with Bucky.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I kid you not, so I get on the phone with him, it's four o'clock in the morning for me, but I'm a late night guy.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's nine o'clock in the morning, it's nine o'clock in the morning for marketing in the UK, and he's having his cool flakes, and we start talking about what we want to do.
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the way that I like to work is I love to just ask the artist, what do you want to do?
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you like?
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so Mark immediately got on to the fact that I was asking him what would you like to do?
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to do?
• 9:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we started talking about one of the biggest core reasons why Spider-Man would always beat Dr. Octopus was that he would annoy the crap out of him.
• 9:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: That he had wise cracks and this was worth it, right?
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he could get beaten physically if you wanted to, but it didn't matter because he just got under a skin.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we said, well where's his humor?
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: What happened to that sense of humor?
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: By the time we took it over, Mary Jane had died in a plane crash.
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody else had died.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everything was going on and we were just sort of like, what's the point of all of this, right?
• 9:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we were told no one's gonna be able to revive Spider-Man is boring, no one likes it.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we disproved it with our first issue as all about him sitting with Uncle Ben's grave and talking about why couldn't find things that were funny anymore.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the very last panel, car comes by, splashes him with water and he starts laughing.
• 9:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: He realizes Uncle Ben's played the joke on it, right?
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So then we go into this conversation show this is a this is like that infamous Peter David story where Mystique is grieving destiny And he she takes her ashes out under the water and like spreads them, but they all blow right back in her face and she
• 10:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: My mum bought over some of my grandmother's ashes.
• 10:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: My little grandma, she lived in South London.
• 10:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: She taught me how to play golf and I love to play golf.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've taught me how to put.
• 10:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I've always been really good at it.
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I said to my friends, do you mind if I, if I spread my land's ashes?
• 10:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were standing on a hole that looked down.
• 10:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I went, I threw up and he had.
• 10:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: On the golf course, and they went, right over us, so we got covered.
• 10:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: We breathed in my grandmother.
• 10:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I know what to do with my dad's ashes.
• 10:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, don't do that.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Go go.
• 10:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have to throw them up and have the wind blown away from you.
• 10:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just so we click.
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: We make the joke ever since my dad was cremated that now he is a powdered beverage.
• 10:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh fantastic.
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: When my dad was cremated, uh, it took me a few years to get over because of COVID.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so my brother called me up at one point and said, Dad's turned into a lump of concrete.
• 10:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I went, we probably need to go and sort him out.
• 11:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, same, same says to you.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you know,
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we start talking about like what would be funny, and Mark brings up the idea of a gang of minds at one point, and we are like wetting ourselves with laughter about all the things that could happen with a gang of minds like one of them puts a gun up, you know, and kind of is like a little thing that says bang on it, and people like holding their heads and then we worked out in the story that they would get trapped in a plexiglass factory, which was absolutely stupid, but you know, then there's stuck trying, you know, but I'm playing Splash, right?
• 11:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: So at some point, one of us, I can't remember who did this.
• 11:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It might have been market might have been me, probably not.
• 11:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Said we need to create these shittiest dumbest character of all time.
• 11:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was intentional.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was intentional.
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we start in this great famous conversation.
• 11:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: We start talking about time face.
• 11:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: What about time face?
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what would be so good about that?
• 11:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: think of all the word play, right?
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he could have letter bombs and he could have part, you know, and he would be like Shakespeare.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: So here's your insider trading.
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what his champion of his real name on the bio?
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: His name is Gordon Thomas.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, of course.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what you have to do now because this will delight you and amaze you is you have to look up Gordon Thomas the music musician.
• 12:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I have always been a massive fan of a trotious music and Gordon Thomas was one of the prizes in my collection.
• 12:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love some cringe.
• 12:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so Gordon Thomas, 1916 to 2016.
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: For a mutian American jazz trombonist, singer-songwriter based in New York, played the trombone in dizzy Gillespie's band during the 40s, more skilled military service members came back from World War II, so he kind of fell into obscurity.
• 12:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: In the 60s, he started producing his own music after a religious epiphany, spent five decades independently recording and self-releasing over 15 albums of original music
• 12:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: hot records label, often giving them away as gifts.
• 13:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: His work characterized by simple catchy and personal lyrics became a notable example of outsider music.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: He gained wider recognition after a cassette tape of his music was discovered by filmmakers, Stacey DuWolf and Malcolm Fraser in 2001,
• 13:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: leading to a year-long search that culminated in tracking him down in 2005.
• 13:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: The resulting documentary, everything's coming my way, premiered at the Bramuda International Film Festival in March 2005 and brought Thomas International Attention.
• 13:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: He performed live for the first time at Film Festivals and Screenings following the film's release.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: his music often featuring a recurring lyrical fascination with the word good has been noted by radio host Erwin Chussard in his 2000s book songs in the key of Z the curious universe of outsider music.
• 13:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've just before his 100th birthday.
• 13:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, in Tuesday, it is a great guy.
• 13:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: You said, run this show on Orange New Jersey, Orange New York, and it was a trouxious music.
• 13:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I first heard Gordon Thomas, when I was working with Ninja Turtles, and then I went to Mirage Studios, and then I went to Tundra, and Mark Martin and I, the cartoonist, would play a trouxious music.
• 14:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we found Gordon Thomas and we could not believe it.
• 14:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: He does.
• 14:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: He sings about women that are very, very good.
• 14:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's actually he'll say like, your love is great, your feelings, very, very, very good being with you.
• 14:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're good like that's a quite a choice that good.
• 14:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: He released all these things on Sam Hot Records.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: He is pictured on the front of every album that he released, holding a trombone, but he doesn't play a single piece of trombone on any of his albums.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: As songs are unbelievably atrocious, there is an earworm that I would encourage everyone to hear, but once you've heard it, it'll never get out your head.
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's called Peace in the Middle East.
• 14:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he had apparently, like kind of a, he must have had a pre-active love life, because he sings about every woman's name.
• 14:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Lady Diana, Lady Marie, he's got girlfriends at a storm, a poor in every storm, right?
• 14:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that guy...
• 14:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I got to name characters back in the day, and I was like, this guy is so ludicrous that he has to be Gordon Thomas.
• 15:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the story behind his name.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm really looking forward to finding this documentary.
• 15:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love a documentary, and I love learning new shit, so this is exciting.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you can find it, you're six, so I'm gonna go find this.
• 15:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you can find on like his worst ever song, it's called Manhattan Moon and if you can find that on YouTube somehow or somewhere and listen to Manhattan Moon you will know exactly why I'm talking about it's like he gets a bunch of like jazz students and then the half of them instruments are out of tune and they play these songs that he keeps writing and his lyrics are the worst lyrics of all time, but we loved him so much he was like one of our prize guys.
• 15:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I play a game with my family where I'll pick like three cringey songs and make them choose the worst.
• 15:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a little game.
• 15:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: We play sometimes.
• 15:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: We also host cringe movie nights.
• 15:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really looking forward to adding this to my lexicon.
• 15:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're about to win.
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: The other one, of course, is Shubi Taylor, a human horn.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you never had a hand.
• 15:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Massive.
• 15:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Shubi Taylor, the human horn is like the number one.
• 16:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a beautiful story.
• 16:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds like another Spider-Man villain, the human horn.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, he's a Spider-Man, you and Bucky have your call.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: You choose typeface, which is getting real 60s Batman energy.
• 16:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: You've got like the villain obsessed with a gimmick.
• 16:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now what happens?
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about me designing this character because he's something else.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing we did was put a big letter A on the middle of his face.
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember that.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember lucky.
• 16:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were laughing so hard in this conversation that it really stuck with me.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I remember it very clearly, right?
• 16:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we were trying to work out what to do.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we were like, well, how bad can we make it?
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the obvious jokes that immediately struck was that he would have letter bombs, right?
• 16:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he'd throw bombs in the shape of letters.
• 16:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they would be letter bombs, they would blow up.
• 16:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then we were like, okay, where's the rest of the word play?
• 16:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so anything that we had to do with a letter, anything that we could do where you could, you could have the shape of the letter, like if, you know, if it was an A frame, then it would be in the shape of a letter A.
• 16:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: It would be all these things because we realized that the word play was endless.
• 16:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he would be such an annoying villain for Spider-Man to fight.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's going to bludgeon you with a big metal calmer that he's going to get you with a calmer, right?
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so what was so great about him was that he was also kind of a pseudo intellectual.
• 17:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he would just spout this millifluice purple pro who's kind of stuff at you and Spider-Man would just
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: because he was that funny.
• 17:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's all did we know.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is true, little did we know that the character, I mean, it came out everybody was like, this is the worst Spider-Man villain I've ever seen.
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And when you're like, listen to the cops, listen to the plastic.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: is what we did realize what he was also kind of popular.
• 17:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Next thing you know, someone, I'm wonder, okay, why don't I remember who was he did it?
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Someone did a two, a two issue Spider-Man story that had time.
• 17:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, so let's get there naturally.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: If that's okay, let me pause you for a moment and I'm going to do the introduction for this character.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then Sean's gonna talk about that follow-up story.
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll pause to talk about it as we go.
• 18:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's so feel free to pause me along the way.
• 18:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I either review Peter Parker, Spider-Man, 23 and 24, the year 2000.
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: The cover of 23 introducing and the letters look like they are cut out of a magazine.
• 18:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Type face, the letters are breaking from the white, showing Spider-Man through the breaks.
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: The letters in the title box are scrabble letters with the scores on them, read them and weep it says.
• 18:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: We open on a very homely man listening to a self-help tape.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am a man a few words, but I understand the power in them.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: In the hands of an artist, how forcible are the right words.
• 18:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: We can so easily create or destroy with our elegant structures of syntax, a poem, a song, a signpost, a legal document.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: But what are words without letters?
• 18:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where would the poet be without the simple craftsmanship to arrange and print his carefully chosen phrases?
• 18:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Without letters, there are no words without craftsmanship.
• 18:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: All poetry is nonsense.
• 18:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is the fragments which make sense of the whole, I am a fragment.
• 18:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: His desk has a picture of when he was a soldier on it, a picture of him with his wife and child separately, and all kinds of lettered tiles.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: The room is full of targets for him to practice his letter weapons on.
• 19:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's painted letters on his face.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's wearing letter necklaces.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's got letters printed on his fingernails.
• 19:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: A man of few words am I, a simple man, but one thing I know, these cruel poets who have wronged me, the attorneys, the dilatant overlords with their circular logic, they must be made to understand the importance of the craftsmen, the hour of typeface is coming, and with it a single letter to represent a singular idea, or for retribution.
• 19:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: The blocks behind him spell, make them pay, while walking in his combat gear, covered in letters,
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Be wary, turn coat for, as that immortal barred road vengeance is in my heart, death is in my hand.
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Blood and revenge are hammering in my head, take heat urchins for it is typeface you face this night.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: When the kids refuse to join his quote quest, typeface takes out some metal letters and a huge old comma and he beats them into unconsciousness and then steals their clothes.
• 20:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I will have your outlandish garb foolish street person, such are the spoils of war.
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: He throws exploding blocks in Times Square and destroys a fizzy orange ad.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Retribution, I will have my pound of flesh.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you hear me?
• 20:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: You perverts of poisonous rhetoric.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: My letter bombs will engulf you in flames.
• 20:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: The tools of a craftsmanship will bring about your downfall.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: A thousand times will your evils be visited back upon you.
• 20:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: A thousand times will your cries for mercy fall on the suddenly death years of tight face.
• 20:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Peter Parker is grieving the loss of Mary Jane.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's getting back from being into being single, and Randy has to teach him that wearing his wedding band on his right hand means he's gay, which is, oh, I forgot that scene, that's the best scene.
• 20:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Was that a thing?
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I wasn't 16 when this came out, and I had never heard of that concept before.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had heard in the concept, I figured I wasn't going to do any research, I'm just going to fucking use it.
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But oh, but only after Peter thought he'd been making a new friend it turns out the guy was really openly flirting with him because he thought he was gay But now he has a new supervillain to fight my call is not with you Spider-Man nor shall it be if you leave now Spider-Man says sorry dude This has been fun, but I have to stop you from blowing up the city now laugh if you must boy, but do you know what your length what your laughter really is?
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: That funny little noise I make in the back of my throat when I hear a joke.
• 21:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh no, it is the sound of denial.
• 21:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Metal letter O swipes through his webbing.
• 21:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's thrown letters that spell sleep emit sleeping gas.
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is trademarked to the wazoo sleep well my friend and dream of spider things.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tomorrow will be another day and a momentous one at that.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: For tomorrow, even at 7 up the clock, that will be my time of reckoning.
• 21:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: though the heavens open, though the currents of time stand still, then shall my enemies fall.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's pause.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the first issue.
• 22:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Paul, what are your thoughts?
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I had recollections here.
• 22:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like hot to listen to.
• 22:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: I feel so good.
• 22:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I get it.
• 22:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I guess I did it.
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: We did it on purpose.
• 22:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll be honest.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think I think it's excellent.
• 22:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's exactly what I want out of more comics.
• 22:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: right, it's going to be fun.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was fun and that was a whole point, right, was that we said he, he's lost his wife.
• 22:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: That we did so many funny scenes like the one where he said that I forgot about that scene, but that was really good, right?
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: He goes into a bar and he's all like moped, you know, and he's like,
• 22:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I remember the way he does, he looks at a guy and the guy has a wedding ring on his right hand.
• 22:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he says, oh, you too, huh?
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I go, oh, yeah, I guess.
• 22:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 22:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So he thinks he's saying, you're a widow too.
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And the other guy's going, so you're gay as well, right?
• 22:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're having this talk across, they have this conversation across purposes.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: We did a scene at one point where Peter's in his apartment, and he's stealing Randy's ice cream.
• 23:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's got a towel around him, and he's singing like,
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at the very end, the town drops and he bends down to say, well, thank you very much.
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as he does, he's barren as off to the door and Randy walks in with his girlfriend and they're like, maybe not, and they just walk back home.
• 23:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will tell you this.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I give credit to Marvel because they let me do whatever I want to do and they let Mark and I do it and that's what helped rebuild what they were trying to rebuild.
• 23:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when you got someone like typeface and I hear that, I'm like, it's a bit cringy because I know I did it on purpose but I will say that it was at least fun and that was what they were missing.
• 23:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: James Imitates who's one of my all-time favorite writers gave us a lot of characters like Frogman and Wallace and White Rabbit who were just gimmicky deliciousness.
• 23:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
• 23:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: There were a couple that I wish I had done.
• 23:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I actually wrote half of one with the Big Wheel.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I love Big Wheel.
• 23:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know what is actual name was, but I wanted to call him Axel because that was perfect.
• 24:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was around the middle of the Big Wheel.
• 24:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jackson Wheel, his name is Jackson Wheel.
• 24:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do know that when I was there and he was going to be called Axel.
• 24:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, but the second Big Wheel is going to be his son, Axel Wheel.
• 24:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Axel, right there you go.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: So when you start writing, can we have to borrow?
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Believe it or not, there is a second big wheel who has no name revealed, so it could be.
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well that's good.
• 24:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then we, I actually had one for hit non-hustler, which I thought was gonna be just a great one, where the hit non-hustler comes back out of prison and he's been in jail for years.
• 24:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he finds that people are using his music in the EDM concerts to put people into a trance with her on X, right?
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because his music would send people into a trance and he would steal everybody's money from their audience.
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so we had all these really funny fun stories.
• 24:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was another one, um, you guys may remember this when I wrote the book.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we had a little piece of cheese called Kevin.
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have named every piece of leftovers Kevin.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Result.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Look, everything that's like, no, no.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been in there so long.
• 25:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had to name it Kevin.
• 25:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've got a Kevin and so the idea was he was a little sentient piece of cheese and there's this one in I think it's in the the mine one where it's completely silent with the only post that speaks in the book is Kevin and so he'll open the fridge door and Kevin will have these little love high emojis alright and then and then when the fridge door closes here's a little broken heart emojis because they are so
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love how much delight you're fighting in this quarter century later.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's my favorite part.
• 25:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, we're recording this in January.
• 25:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I legit, it's already recorded coming out in February during like history month.
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a hypno-hustler episode on my page and coming out.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll be talking all about Antoine Del Swan, which is his name.
• 25:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, jumping to issue 24.
• 25:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Sean, go ahead.
• 25:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: I had a quick question for Paul.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Roughly, how long into your run on Spider-Man was this?
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so my brother had this one when when when we were younger, but I was like I said 16 when it came out.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, how long was typeface into it?
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, how how many issues into your run was this issue?
• 26:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Probably three or four.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, because we thought of typeface on the first conversation Mark and I had about the book.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, I'll never forget the conversation we laughed so hard and for so long that both of us were in pain because it hurts so bad And none of us neither us could say a single word because the next word that came out both of us and just cracked up because and we thought you know what there is magic in this like this is what it should be it should be funny And each of those comics are supposed to feel yeah it's supposed to feel like something and if he's really good at wise cracks and he drives doctor octopus or
• 26:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: other villains crazy because he can do a wise crack.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think all of that had been lost at the time.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they're just said, why don't we bring it back?
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, why can't we do that?
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's so our stories were never momentous, right?
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: They were never big events that crossed over with 98 different titles.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: As was single issue stories and guess what?
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Guess what?
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still signed to this day.
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have people coming up with issues and they're like, this was funny.
• 26:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: We did one called snow day and it was all about him.
• 27:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: flying around the city and he has a woolen costume that he's made and it just gets logged up with snow and he's just like really miserable and he runs into the vulture right and so there's these moments where he got slips off the roof and he lands in the thing and he's like there's a load of kids there and he's like uh hey kids stay in school and they will just pelting with snowballs and he's like
• 27:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like why couldn't we keep that?
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why not have fun with these things as much as you want to do these crossovers don't let stuff?
• 27:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much more to be done with coming.
• 27:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, crossovers, let's jump to issue 24.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Back at his base, typeface is ironing his pants.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's listening to more of his book.
• 27:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a man of few words, a simple man, as such I offer one simple question.
• 27:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the same question I asked myself as each new day and truths upon the blissful sanctity of my dreams.
• 27:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: The question is why?
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why am I here?
• 27:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: What is my purpose?
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember only fragments in a former existence I was once private Gordon Thomas.
• 28:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember the first time I asked myself the question, so many, many years ago, it was a bright evening as I recall as my friends and I laid dying on warm wet sand.
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember looking to the heavens as the bloodseep from my mouth and ears, I remember asking why.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I remember a curious message that I could not decipher, typed in bold letters and mild high.
• 28:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: My Ohio, I returned to my native land then an outcast, unwanted, and misunderstood.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: My family called me baby killer and threw me on to the mercy of the streets.
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: No one to love me and no one to love.
• 28:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was alone, but I discovered a calling.
• 28:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I became a man of letters, a craftsmand, found gainful employment as a sign smith.
• 28:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: I created signs for the masses.
• 28:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: I became an educator and in former and in so dedicating myself to my work, the pain of my past became bearable.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I bored until the day they decided I was no longer useful.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I secretly wondered why, not for the first or last time, warmongers took my life away from me and when I scraped and clawed to manufacture another, the lawyers and liars took that too.
• 29:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: And those responsible, two of those responsible I have, but one response.
• 29:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: annihilation and so he goes to his old boss the one who fired him at ace signs and the guy doesn't even recognize him.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: My letter is good sir, I might hear than the sort of far more combustible on your way up to heaven I do hope you'll re-discover that pesky soul you traded in when you swapped your drafting tables for computer workstations but then Spider-Man shows up.
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, you will not salvage that which I have worked so hard to destroy Spider-Man.
• 29:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even you could not possibly stand against 10,000 tons of explosive force on our must be sacrifice.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, is the hour of typeface.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Spider-Man has brought a massive spider monster with him, don't worry about it.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's unrelated to the direct event, but there's a giant spider monster.
• 29:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Your fight is not mine Spider-Man, I have other fish to fry and fry them, I shall, big fish, rich and powerful ones.
• 29:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But despite his nature and his goals, typeface ends up teeming up with Spider-Man, they destroy the monster, he's got flash blocks, FLSH, their bright lights, and then curse.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, by the beard of Shakespeare, he says.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: letter bombs open up the thorax and little spiders crawl out of it and explode gross they make peace and typeface agrees to change his ways but the corrupt boss blows up the place anyways so he can claim the insurance frauds you know.
• 30:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: So here's a Paul Jenkins story because here's this gimmick character, but then you make him like a Vietnam vet.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a, it's a gut punch of a origin story and it's way.
• 30:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is.
• 30:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: When you do humor, the only way something is funny is if you can juxtapose it, create something that has more difficult meaning.
• 30:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you, you know, Robert Williams, the amazing comedian had such a lot of darkness inside him and difficulty, you know, and so many comedians do.
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Same as true of tragedy, right?
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like you can even see it from Shakespeare.
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: You'll see a tragedy, but there's moments of humor so you understand what the tragedy means just to perseguate something.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.
• 31:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there is a story behind that issue that you guys, when you hear it, I don't know that you'll believe it.
• 31:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know the spider monster that he shows up with.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the story.
• 31:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maximum security crossover.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a maximum security crossover.
• 31:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to take you back in time when I was just a wee whipper snapper and I'm right in Spider-Man and I'm on five titles and one I was on the whole cut the same time I was on Spider-Man I was working on this stuff and I hand in the scripts to the whole
• 31:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: and Spider-Man, and both my editors call me up and go, and they went, where's the crossover?
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I went, what are you talking about?
• 31:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: What crossover?
• 31:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they had forgotten to tell me that there was a crossover with some event called Maximum Security, and I said, could you send it to me?
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they said, no, because it's not really written out.
• 31:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: So the two crossovers I did, that month in the Hulk we used Joe fix it, and he ends up crossing over with a bunch of, there's some aliens around.
• 31:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in Spider-Man, we have to put this maximum security crossover.
• 31:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody could tell me what it was.
• 31:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I kid you not, I wrote both issues with no description of what maximum security and the most I knew was there are aliens in it.
• 32:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I wrote aliens in the books.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's for rust rating.
• 32:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: From an editorial standpoint.
• 32:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's for rust rating for you.
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Good Lord.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was kind of track though, because that crossover was kind of like single issues all over the place, but nothing really tight
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just talked about this for listeners of the Patreon.
• 32:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just talked about this in the series episode that came out in January.
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: So go back and listen for more on maximum security there.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to keep us moving for a minute.
• 32:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we can pause on some themes.
• 32:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sean, do you want to tell us about typefaces return in Spider-Man's Tangled web number 18?
• 32:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is bizarre.
• 32:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is absolutely bizarre.
• 32:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: So written and drawn by Ted McEver.
• 32:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And McEver, man.
• 32:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
• 32:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Spider-Man's Tangle web was a short-lived series that mostly focused on one to three issue arcs featuring members of Spider-Man's Rogues Gallery.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not a whole lot, again, no green goblins, no doctors, octopus, but some of the lesser ones.
• 33:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: A personal highlight for me, though, is the two issue arc flowers for Rhino by Peter Milligan and Duncan Fugrano, where it's a flowers for Elephant on Story about the Rhino, and it's fantastic.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it conversely, the low point is the get craving prequel by Ron Zimmerman.
• 33:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Just so I want to interject something before you continue.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that was actually the first time I came back to write it's by my name.
• 33:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the thing I came on.
• 33:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I wrote a rough market asked me for a few years and I was struggling to work at what's a right.
• 33:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: and then I worked out what to write and so I did two issues with Sean Phillips about the community and then I did one issue just about with JG Jones and I'm telling you right now I look back on those three issues and I'm like those issues were awesome like it's the one idea with JG is really sad.
• 33:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what was the problem?
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't work out how to get past all the continuity.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't understand the clone saga.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know any you think about comics and everyone knows I don't know very much about comics, right?
• 34:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know more now, but I didn't then, and so the story I wrote was about the convoluted nature of his life and how it was messed up, how tragedy, and so it works backwards, he's trapped in a dream, he's trapped underneath comic panels that are holding him down, and it has all this continuity that's just trapping it.
• 34:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And over time, he releases each of these tragedies like Captain Stacey and all of that, and he
• 34:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Relived relives the tragedy of Uncle Ben, and after Uncle Ben, he finds himself on a rooftop, and it's him, Dr. Octopus, Green Goblin, the Volcha, and this is where he wants to be.
• 34:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's fighting the bad guys that he feels more familiar with.
• 34:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's none of this stuff as will happen, but they disappear, and there's this really tragic, ending to the story where he's just sitting there,
• 34:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's beaten them and he's just like, okay, I'm back and Gwen Stacy walks out and she comes up to him and she's like You have to wake up now and he's like, I don't want to wake up.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to stay here with you.
• 34:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: She says he can't and he wakes up.
• 34:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's really Patrick it's really sad, but it that was my first Spider-Man work and once I had done that I was like great I've relieved them of all of his I don't now I know how to write him I could now write him as a guy with a sense of humor So they got sorry interjection
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
• 35:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for sharing.
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
• 35:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please.
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in this standalone issue, we are introduced to spell check.
• 35:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Anne and Charlie focused on grammar and punctuation.
• 35:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: We see him sitting in a coffee shop, want you to the news broadcast about the penny anti gang, defacing the Lincoln theater to preach their defamation manifesto of the American copper penny RIP pennies.
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: SpellChic thinks about how the penny-anti-gangs message of penny-for-you-thought is a quote feeble attempt at grammar.
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: He further thinks various complaints about the other customers in the coffee shop, complaints like improper claw, overused colloquialism, pretentious contractive syntax, etc.
• 35:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know this guy in real life, I'm just saying.
• 35:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: this guy.
• 35:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: He also has his own font just to be clear.
• 35:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: His speech bubbles have his own font, just a slightly robotic looking.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: As he leaves the coffee shop, we can see his civilian out, emerald colored pants and suspenders and all-of-green t-shirts that says wrestle rough with black letters and a black pair of combat boots, seemingly having a shaved head and a tough-to-blonde hair at the front.
• 36:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's giving a it's giving very strong guy.
• 36:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very strong guy here.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: Very heck.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: He complains further this time out loud about more people's programmer when he stumbles upon the penny anti gang stealing signs.
• 36:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Suddenly a voice from off panel says what a little copper Lincoln ever do to you guys.
• 36:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Your penny anti sign arranged and passed it right in days are over.
• 36:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Any chance to replace a word with a single letter has is taken just to be clear.
• 36:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Buzzah.
• 36:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Pal, this don't concern you, ah, but it does.
• 36:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: You see, my presence has a point.
• 36:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Typhasis scenes sitting on top of a mailbox trolling a large letter P around his finger.
• 36:44
  [SPEAKER_02]: The sign behind him is a poster for a movie called Hell 2 Pay, coming soon.
• 36:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: He hurls the P at the gang as well as his smoke bomb letter tiles.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: After the gang scammers off, spell check talks to Typhasin, he's excessively verbose an erudite way.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Spell check tells him his methods are
• 37:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Charming requires syntactical assistance, offering to be time-faces partner.
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Typeface says, no, and runs off.
• 37:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we next see spell check at a surplus or assembling his costume.
• 37:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Shopkeeper hears him talking to himself and asks, are you some type of teacher?
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or like a teacher of type.
• 37:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: spell check reveals to us his costume and all white body suit with goggles, a small check mark on his bicep and chest, and enormous check mark coming up off of his head adding approximately two feet to his total height.
• 37:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: He finds Typeface in battle with a penny anti gang again, interrupting Typeface's newvers and letting the gang get away.
• 37:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is where we learn that his name is Ben.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: He has given no last name, however, according to my research, his name is Benjamin Pancake.
• 37:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Typeface is angry that Spellcheck let the gang get away again, and Spellcheck explains that he is only there to help Typeface correct his brainer.
• 37:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: A service that Typeface does not want.
• 37:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, typeface is looking for a gang of, get looking for the gang of few blocks away.
• 37:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: He belongs the attention that he's getting from spellcheck and a small child who's excited to meet quote unquote, apt in a face.
• 37:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: The tendencies spellcheck try to jump from a roof to a telephone pole and things that spider-man will check falls off the pole typeface simply grumbles.
• 38:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: They shall inherit the earth.
• 38:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: In my mind's voice is totally like 90's sitcom.
• 38:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's very like 70's and personifications are now my weapons.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's very got at least like a steam oracle voice in my head like the only way please.
• 38:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: The next few pages are filled with essentially spell checks saying can we please work together and typeface saying no get away from me you lazy eyed psycho.
• 38:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a frequently used line amongst my, me and my sibling.
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, then typeface throws letter tiles and full size letters, it's spell check.
• 38:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, having not spell check on conscious typeface ties him up with a note that says, please lock up this lunatic pronto.
• 38:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: Comments of your friendly neighborhood typeface.
• 38:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Spiderman swings into fine spell checker.
• 38:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: Then takes the time to complain about the hype and in the middle of Spider-Man, which, again, according to my research is supposedly a thing Stanley did to make it clear that this was not in fact Superman.
• 38:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: However, he is called Superman in the second issue of Spider-Man.
• 38:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Stan.
• 38:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: roll credits.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Fantastic.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a really funny scene as well where typeface gets recognized as like a little baby kid in the street who's like, hey, I know you you've got an A on your face.
• 39:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I used to read your comics.
• 39:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: You must be captain A face and he's like, oh, great.
• 39:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm A face.
• 39:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love McEver's art in this.
• 39:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's giving very almost horror gothic a little bit, but like super punchy.
• 39:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Paul, do you remember reading this?
• 39:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do.
• 39:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know I can say about it.
• 39:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's
• 39:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Once I notice the hell to pay as in, you know, it's an evil wig.
• 39:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Once I notice that side, I'm sort of looking at every side, just to see anything.
• 39:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's a bar there called Tangerine Dreamland.
• 39:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it varies things like that.
• 39:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like this is definitely the type of issue where you need to check the art for the easter egg.
• 39:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a joke that I started with typeface and I actually brought it into this, like one of my favorite series that I've ever done in my life is this thing I do called Sidekick.
• 39:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Chad, we may have talked about it before, but I love the fact that it makes me happy because it's so fucking politically incorrect, it doesn't give a shit.
• 39:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, and so now I've got one of those other heartfelt stuff, but sidekick is just the joke that keeps on giving.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like Benny Hill was super heroes, right?
• 40:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things about the typeface idea that I brought in was there was a bad guy called Dr. Scorillus.
• 40:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he would create the most ridiculously stupid weapons, like the giant turbo toothbrush and...
• 40:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the long-range surveillance roller decks and things like that, and they made no sense whatsoever But the reason he had created them was just for the wordplay so he could make jokes That was one where he pears on a giant boot.
• 40:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So now he's all that kicking people and kicking you know and all that and that actually started with typefights because all of those jokes and Ted McEver Absolutely took it to a new level.
• 40:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was fantastic that issue.
• 40:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I really did
• 40:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love a story with just ridiculous humor.
• 40:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, we're going to jump to the Civil War event now.
• 40:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Paul and I have a whole episode out there on Sally Floyd, who's a dear favorite of mine.
• 40:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I adore Sally.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're writing a lot of the frontline stuff and these kind of POV character stories about Sally and others.
• 40:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And civil war front line is the sidebook to the main civil war event with the Superhero Registration Act with Paul writing a lot of the stuff.
• 41:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's more than one story happening in each book, and we get typeface featured in the back as part of the anti-registration underground.
• 41:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now very quickly before this, Brian Michael Bendis has an issue of new Avengers number 30, where Spider-Man is talking to the Avengers, and he just mentions how, like, fighting typeface was the low point in his life.
• 41:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: He mentions that as his lowest point, which is, which is bringing Paul Delay.
• 41:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so there's a large group of obscure characters coming back during Civil War.
• 41:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But in this anti-registration underground, we see mostly new characters.
• 41:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just, it's almost like Ramon Bucks just got to just draw a bunch of superhero costumes.
• 41:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: However, in the handbooks later, Ronald Bird, who was one of my co-handbook writers, went back and created names for all of these characters,
• 41:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Paul did he work with you on this in naming these characters?
• 42:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I remember talking of Ronald quite often, actually he'd, he would when he was right.
• 42:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right guy, Ronald's a great guy.
• 42:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I want to say that he did he asked me sometimes about these things.
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I can't be certain of this, but I want to say that Ronald actually did ask me sometimes.
• 42:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: This one does them a name, what can we call him?
• 42:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And there are plenty of times when I was like Ronald just make one up.
• 42:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of these characters have code names and real names.
• 42:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to give you the code names.
• 42:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, and typeface.
• 42:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have Canasta, Dawn 2, Freeware, Gladiatrix, Gladiatrix is an established character.
• 42:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Green Guards Woman, Harbormaster, Johnny Justice, Cruzado, Laman, Masked Rose, Natural Network, Kibla with a cue, a scorecard, Skybolt, Staten Island star, the Tosser, US Annie, Austraker, Captain Kinship, Dawn 2, Haunter, Igwinid, Human Hayes,
• 42:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Orange Crusher, Space Heat, Stone Tuff, Tosser, Winter Woman, Warbug, Zantifa with an X, Warb, Oh, I did that one twice, and a Zapster.
• 43:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: The most obscure of obscure Arcana and Marvel, do you have any thoughts on these names, Paul?
• 43:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: I now probably can guess that a couple of those are mine, because the tosser is literally going to be a British joke, right?
• 43:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, when the tosser is a tosser, right?
• 43:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that would have been a little joke that they probably would.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just want everyone to know that when Posset wankered, there was a hand motion.
• 43:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 43:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 43:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a peace sign.
• 43:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: It
• 43:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, here's the thing about Ronald, he was really serious about it.
• 43:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: He wanted to be completeist about everything that was going on.
• 43:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the handbook, this is the handbook group that I was part of.
• 43:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we took our fucking job seriously.
• 44:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I did the entry on the guardsmen, for example.
• 44:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And every guardsmen, like those are the green armor guys that like guard the vault, right?
• 44:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Every guardsman who had ever gotten a first name, they got a last name because I gave them one.
• 44:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think Ronald, you know, I'd say, well, you know, you'd fill them in if you want to.
• 44:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Ronald's like, I've got to, like, I don't want to.
• 44:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is my job.
• 44:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've got to make sure that everything's complete.
• 44:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I want to say though that I will proudly claim the tosser as my own, because that sounds a very, very British, uh, that's me on my own territory.
• 44:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Sally Floyd is interviewing the anti, uh, the anti registration underground and typeface is kind of a leadership position.
• 44:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: We get lines like,
• 44:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't steal freedom from someone's heart, misfluid.
• 44:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I watched my brother Joey Parish on cold foreign sad.
• 44:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: He sacrificed his life for my first amendment right to freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly, my right to privacy.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: The group's trying to be diplomatic against impossible odds, they're working with Sally Floyd, but the shield registration units of Cape Killers come in to break them.
• 45:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just noticed a certain contradiction in the continuity here earlier in issue 24 of Peter Parker Spider-Man.
• 45:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you're giving us hell checks of voice right now.
• 45:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is how he sounds in my brain.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just specifically that it was a warm wet sand as opposed to a cold sand.
• 45:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Could you please explain that sir?
• 45:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: I can.
• 45:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, you win a no price.
• 45:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I could catch up.
• 45:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And second of all, so you'll be receiving your no-plies in the mail at any moment.
• 45:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: And second of all, um, one area for the beach was warm, but the other area was cold.
• 45:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Please clearly, clearly, sandman was there.
• 45:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you put on the part that was sandman,
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a gorgeous story with typeface at the end where there's poetry over typeface is big battle.
• 45:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Paul, I know you have some thoughts on putting this together.
• 45:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know that you've mentioned before, this is something you're pretty proud of.
• 45:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it is because, you know, as you know, like many of my relatives are coding wartime.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: and I own the artifacts of my great-grandfather's.
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I have made them into real characters.
• 46:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I actually built them into the Darkness video game as NPCs.
• 46:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when you play in the game you can actually walk across Noman's land and there's a moment where you find them in the trenches and it's my three great-grandfather's and they're all just sitting there and when I first played the game I just sat there with them for hours.
• 46:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't move on.
• 46:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just sat there with them.
• 46:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's very meaningful for me and my family, but a lot of the things that were so beautiful are also so tragic.
• 46:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So if you've ever read the poetry of secrets as soon or Wilford Owen about the First World War, or plenty of First World War poets, these are guys who literally saw their friends die in horrible circumstances.
• 46:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's one by Wilford Owen who talks about a guy that didn't get his gas mask on in time and he just how he chokes and how his eyes look after he's died.
• 46:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's weird, isn't it, you know, this is funny character, but in Civil War I wanted to write about wartime.
• 46:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so he ends up juxtaposed, doesn't it?
• 46:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's funny character that's been in wartime, but he's juxtaposed against that kind of language.
• 46:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's against a World War I poem, right?
• 46:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Paul, you do this in multiple issues where there's poems used in multiple times, but the one I think you're referencing most prominently is an issue for.
• 47:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And let me read it aloud actually.
• 47:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's gorgeous images of these people, these like people who just had a different opinion, who are getting taken down by the government, which is very fascism.
• 47:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we open with a quote about the Vietnam War.
• 47:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, maybe it's issue three we're talking about, hang on.
• 47:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you tell me, is that the one that says, we met a soulmate on Paris Island.
• 47:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We left his inmates from an asylum.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is that that one?
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's that is Billy Joel.
• 47:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that the man in the soul, man?
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: OK, OK, OK, OK.
• 47:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's two, let's do both.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: An issue three, so I'm going to read this from the text, a beautiful art.
• 47:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Woo, woofered Owen and listed in the artist's rifles on October 21, 1915, and was drafted to France in 1917.
• 47:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: The worst winter of what came to be known as the Great War.
• 47:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: After only five weeks of combat experience, thoroughly shocked by the horrors of the battlefield, he was sent to Craig Lockhart Warhospital near Edinburgh, suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder or shell shock.
• 48:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: In August 1918, after his friend and fellow Warpo at Siegfried Sassun had been severely injured and sent back to England, Owen returned to the butchery that continued on the fields of France.
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: He died during a machine gun attack, just seven days before the end of the war, his parents were informed of his death on Armistice Day.
• 48:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: The following poem by Owen is entitled,
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: utility.
• 48:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we get this juxtaposed by like medics trying to save people in these explosions, Captain America shows up, etc.
• 48:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gently it's touch a woken once, at home whispering on fields, on the sun, always at woken, even in France, until this morning, and this snow.
• 48:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the whole poem.
• 48:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: if anything might rise in now, the kind of sun will know.
• 48:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think how it wakes the seeds, work once and the clays of cold star, are limb-side deer achieve their sides full and have still warm too hard to stir.
• 48:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Was it for this, the clay grew tall?
• 48:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what made fature sun beams toil to break Earth's sleep at all?
• 48:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the fucking saddest poem.
• 49:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's clearly that you saw one of his mates die.
• 49:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's really sad.
• 49:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that poetry has, there's a line from Wilfredo and it says, what passing bells for these who die as cattle, only the monstrous anger at the guns.
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I used to write that stuff into civil war all the time.
• 49:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I know it's pretty heavy for this, this podcast.
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, we talk about serious topics all the time.
• 49:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: An issue for the historical reference in this backup story, a bish with Sean Chan on this one, the Vietnam War according to the Adjutance General Center's Todd Jenfile, dated 1981, the United States suffered over 50,000 fatalities, including over 3000 military personnel who either died in captivity or were MIA over 30,000 were wounded.
• 49:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: In 1995, on the 20th anniversary of the ending of the war, North Vietnam supplied the audience France press with fatality figures of their own over 1,100,000 killed in action and over 600,000 wounded.
• 49:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes the numbers speak for themselves.
• 49:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: The words here are adapted from the song Good Night Saigon by Billy Joel, while they reflect the thoughts of a US Marine Corps recruit, it can be said that they reflect the thoughts of every soldier from every war in history.
• 50:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: We met as soulmates on Paris Island, we left as inmates from an asylum, and we were sharp sharp as knives, and we were so gung-ho to lay down our lives.
• 50:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: We came in spastic, like timeless horses, we left in plastic as numbered corpses.
• 50:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we learned fast to travel light, our arms were heavy, but our bellies were tight.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we would all go down together.
• 50:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: we said we'd all go down together.
• 50:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Remember Charlie, remember Baker, they left their childhood on every acre, and who was wrong, and who was right, it didn't matter in the thick of the fight.
• 50:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: We held the day in the palm of our hand, they ruled the night, and the night seemed to last as long as six weeks.
• 50:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: On Paris Island, we held the coastline, they held the Highlands, and they were sharp as sharp as knives.
• 50:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: They heard the home of our motors, they counted the rotors, and waited for us to arrive.
• 50:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we would all go down together, we said, we'd all go down together.
• 50:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the one where we see typeface in more action.
• 51:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's like fighting combat troops.
• 51:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they all get arrested.
• 51:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we see typeface in the rest of the Civil War event, going to the negative zone prison for having dared to stand up against the government.
• 51:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: In, uh, he's, he's in prison alongside cold blood, seven speed ball in the living mummy, which is the weirdest fucking group, I can't imagine.
• 51:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: In issue six, he gets broken out of the prison.
• 51:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: In school or frontline 10 and 11, they are battling the Thunderbolts in New York City and typeface gets slammed by venom into a bus and pronounced dead.
• 51:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: His body is taken away.
• 51:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, however, in 2017, in Spider-Man Deadpool number 12, we see him in the back by a Nick Giavonetti and Paul Schier, he's in an underground casino, and in damage control 4 number 5, volume 4 number 5, we see his equipment, the typeface letters, in a supervillain storage facility with a bunch of other supervillain tech.
• 51:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's also been in the Marvel Superheroes cartoon, if you look for a typeface there.
• 52:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Paul and then Sean, how are you feeling about this character who has a very limited number of appearances?
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're missing one big one.
• 52:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ooh.
• 52:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you are.
• 52:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: Professor Spiderverse.
• 52:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, of course.
• 52:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 52:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: That was it.
• 52:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: What he appears in Spider-Man across the Spiderverse, he's in the print in a Spider-Man 299 prison for everybody.
• 52:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, Miles walks by, he slams on the glass and yells, go to Helvetica.
• 52:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I totally forgot that.
• 52:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.
• 52:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It made the MCU, you know, he's actually in it, so he's he's arrived.
• 52:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: How are we feeling about this character after this kind of lengthy review?
• 52:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: No one's ever talked about typeface this much.
• 52:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Except for Paul and Bucky.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it is fun.
• 52:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is funny to have created a character that in fact.
• 52:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also counter what he said at it.
• 52:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: People have actually gone back to this guy a couple of times, you know, they like him.
• 52:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was intended to be a joke.
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was presented as a joke.
• 52:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was fun, but you go admit there was a little bit in there where the war stuff actually meant something because what I did was I took this joke character.
• 53:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: We put him in war time and that was the whole point in that story.
• 53:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was the now someone transplanted into really into the battle.
• 53:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It didn't matter how funny he was or how absurd he was.
• 53:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now he was a victim of a war.
• 53:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you said that Wilfred Owen died just six days before the end of the war.
• 53:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: One of my grandfather's died the day after ended.
• 53:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was warned he was buried in Palestine.
• 53:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think, you know, having the juxtaposition of a fun or silly or goofy character in stories about wartime that means something.
• 53:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe he had some relevant software, you know.
• 53:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's a lot of fun and I loved it at the end of your first two issue arc with him.
• 53:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: He has kind of a change of heart and automatically already sees the error in his ways.
• 53:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: He has the potential to have some fun occupied space in the Marvel universe.
• 53:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: He can keep the gimmick and still be fun.
• 53:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: See Ryan North squirrel girl for every potential, right?
• 53:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's 50 issues of him.
• 53:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: her helping like super villains rehabilitate and keep their silliness and quirkiness along the way.
• 53:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: For many people, it's the visual for this guy.
• 54:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the angular letters, it's the letter motif, it's the letter obsession that I think makes him very fun.
• 54:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to read his book, it's going to be terrible, and spellcheck probably gutted it.
• 54:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's probably written the worst book ever.
• 54:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Sean, how are you feeling?
• 54:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, I feel better about being a fellow.
• 54:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I did before and I looked at him a lot before.
• 54:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is fun.
• 54:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love taking these weird deep dives.
• 54:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is not a character I ever would have chosen.
• 54:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm so glad that we picked him.
• 54:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is a really fun opener for Stiltman, fun, fun, fun, fun.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, could I get your quick one to take on still man as well?
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know you've written this character.
• 54:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get to the trial if I'm at the end of the month.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ah, yeah.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I've written them, um, things are fantastic.
• 54:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I would say this and I mean this.
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't care which character is I think they're all interesting because it's how you write them and it's what you do with them, right?
• 54:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And every single character that you'll ever read, even typeface,
• 55:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's big caveat right there.
• 55:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Even typeface all of them are people, right, which means that they're a reflection of who we are.
• 55:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So when you open that book, you open a mirror, you're looking at yourself.
• 55:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So still man has a lot, right?
• 55:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot to the character, there's a lot to, you know, they are often defined by their villainry or their powers, right?
• 55:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: But ultimately once you delve into them.
• 55:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, you know, still man's powers or his pension for doing whatever it is that he does and elevated like level it's it's it's who does that person and if you get into that person and mean something it probably means something to the readers.
• 55:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I love still man.
• 55:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is
• 55:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is a famous Broadway show.
• 55:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like the name of it because it's kind of a hate word, but it's the G-word, G-Asterisk, SPY, or PSY about the famous stripper Blank Rosely.
• 55:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I try to avoid using the word on the show, but there's a number in this show about strippers.
• 55:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the strippers come out and they're all just like work in their tired ass jobs.
• 55:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they sing a whole song.
• 55:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a musical number about how you got to have a gimmick in order to make things work.
• 56:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of the strippers, you know, they sing, you can, you can, but you gotta do it with the horn and she's playing a trumpet and then she plays it out of her ass at the end of it.
• 56:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's another one who's got electric lights and every time she shakes her boobs, the lights turn on and off.
• 56:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, villains need a gimmick.
• 56:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: We love a gimmick villain.
• 56:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: We love a gimmick hero typeface.
• 56:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Found his gimmick still, man, has his gimmick.
• 56:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: We love them for it.
• 56:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: We will never forget them for it.
• 56:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if they ever take jobs as strippers, I'm not gonna watch the show,
• 56:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I might watch it just in the same way that a train wreck is entertaining.
• 56:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sean, you would rock a typeface cosplay though.
• 56:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think people would celebrate.
• 56:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I could see it happening my friend.
• 56:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: Look, just because I've been planning that this entire conversation.
• 56:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see if I can get it together in the next two weeks.
• 56:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just the still man, it's the telescopic legs, right?
• 56:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the fact that so absurd that you could have these like 10 league boots where you like still serve for people and you're sort of like, okay, so you can do that.
• 57:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like now what can you do?
• 57:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: By the design of the character, it's not exactly a lot, which is why he's always getting his ass kicked.
• 57:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's actually kind of why he's very endearing.
• 57:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And but also there's like four stilt men he's amazing and he has let me see something like I don't know 60 appearance There's some things he's like used by it frequently which is great.
• 57:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, my friend And through like silver age Daredevil.
• 57:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, right those first few appearances of stilt man It's like oh, this is what it happened when it's like when you play him straight and not as the punchline
• 57:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody stay tuned.
• 57:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: Next week on the Grey Malkin' Lane Patreon, we'll be delving into Lady Stiltman, who is a canon character.
• 57:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's a poet, my friend, Ruth and Price, and I are gonna be delving into that world.
• 57:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And very similarly to what Paul has been sharing today, she's a very tragic character with a very silly gimmick.
• 57:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're gonna jump into that next time.
• 57:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Follow the show at Grey Malkin' Under Scoreland on Instagram most prominently.
• 57:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Over on the main show this month, we're going to be reviewing some of the worst X-Men parodies that you have never heard of.
• 58:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: The episode coming out immediately after this, Rex Ogle and Andrew Wheeler, wondering why they ever agreed to come on my show as we review the 1988 X-Men Parallel Universe that is called the Power Packed Herbs.
• 58:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is an elephant version of the X-Men.
• 58:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's nonsense and we're going to be in for that all month on the show.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to hear any final thoughts from either of you, anything you'd like to share, anything you want to plug, and where can people find to online?
• 58:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go Paula and then Sean.
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I've got, obviously, the century now I'm back working at Marvel.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a long time, so I now have the century coming out in March, and I have Captain Marvel's first issue hitting an April.
• 58:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: You can find me online, let's say, I mean, you can find my Instagram, but I couldn't tell you where I am.
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I still have a presence on X, God help me.
• 58:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, find me at my Paul Jenkins, because there's a big century community there, by the way.
• 58:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me on because like talking for an hour about tight face.
• 58:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think it was possible.
• 59:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So well done talking to delightful people You can find any topic.
• 59:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's always going to be great, but it's it's great to see you man.
• 59:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a huge fan I'm so pleased you're writing new stuff.
• 59:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait to to see it.
• 59:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for being back on the show
• 59:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Can I tell you one thing as well?
• 59:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 59:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: When you read the century, you are going to cry your fucking eyes out.
• 59:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Ah!
• 59:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to hurt everybody.
• 59:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: People are going to be very upset with me in very angry for a minute.
• 59:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then they won't.
• 59:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you'll cry a lot, tears when you read that book.
• 59:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait.
• 59:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm excited for your Captain Marvel.
• 59:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Same here.
• 59:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's Sean.
• 59:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can find me on Instagram.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm at cool beverage C-O-O-L-B-E-V-E-R-I-D-G-E. Mostly what I post is cosplay stuff, some comic stuff, pictures of my dogs.
• 59:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I've also started doing a lot of posting for the comic book story workout.
• 59:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you'll be able to find a lot of this stuff for hot comics in a soda as well.
• 59:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm cool.
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Great to see you.
• 59:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: We get to hang out in a couple weeks together.
• 59:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited.
• 59:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have a great time.
• 59:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to donate early March you said that the episode will come out in early March.
• 1:00:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
• 1:00:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 1:00:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: You'll soon be able to see me at the Chicago Comic and Entertainment Expo or C2E2.
• 1:00:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hoping to have an arcade costume by then.
• 1:00:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yay.
• 1:00:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, everybody.
• 1:00:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for the ongoing support.
• 1:00:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for coming on the show.
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go express my anal glands.
• 1:00:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we'll see you on the next time.