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Why Do Supplements Have So Many Extra Ingredients? · So That's Why

0:04
Jenny Oliver: Welcome to the, so That's Why podcast, where we unpack
0:07
the science behind everyday questions.
0:09
I'm Jen.
0:11
Chris Smith: I'm Chris.
0:12
Matt Edmundson: And I'm Matt.
0:13
Jenny Oliver: Okay, so today we're tackling something that gets people
0:16
worked up in the supplement world.
0:18
Why do supplements have so many extra ingredients?
0:22
I see comments online all the time, like this has magnesium
0:25
stir, it's full of fillers, or I only buy filler free supplements.
0:30
But here's what's interesting.
0:31
Most people don't actually know what these ingredients are or why they're there.
0:36
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's definitely a craze, isn't it at the moment?
0:40
The clean supplement, uh, craze that makes you overthink every single ingredient.
0:46
And it's easy to get caught up by thinking, checking labels for
0:49
fillers and additives, thinking is this really necessary?
0:55
So I guess there's more to it, right, Chris?
0:57
Chris Smith: Yeah, definitely.
0:58
And yeah, this is such an important topic and it's something that's
1:01
really close to our hearts because we're the team behind Vegetology.
1:05
Uh, supplements.
1:06
I'm a formulation scientist, and hopefully by the end of this
1:09
episode we'll have explained that the term filler is misleading.
1:13
And often these things described as fillers actually do rather
1:15
important jobs in the formulas.
1:18
Jenny Oliver: So we're gonna look at some of the most common ingredients.
1:21
People worry about what they actually do, whether the concerns are valid, and
1:25
reveal some practices in the industry that are genuinely questionable.
1:30
They're not for the reasons most people think
1:33
Chris Smith: Exactly.
1:34
So.
1:35
When people say filler, they're usually referring to an ingredient
1:39
that isn't the active nutrient, like the vitamin or the mineral.
1:42
But these are actually called excipients rather than fillers.
1:46
And here's the thing, supplement companies don't actually, you
1:49
know, financially benefit by adding these things necessarily.
1:52
These ingredients add cost.
1:54
So if we could make a tablet, for instance, with just pure
1:57
vitamin D three powder, we would.
1:59
But the problem is it's often physically impossible.
2:01
So we need these ingredients or these
2:05
Jenny Oliver: excipients,
2:05
right?
2:05
'cause we're dealing with microscopic amounts.
2:08
So think about vitamin B12, you might need a hundred micrograms.
2:11
That's like a millionth of a gram.
2:14
You literally can't see that with the naked eye, let alone measure it
2:18
consistently or make a tablet with it.
2:21
Matt Edmundson: So without these excipients, then.
2:24
Uh, we would be trying to take something in a quantity literally too small to see,
2:30
like, I don't know, trying to swallow the tablet the size of a pinhead, maybe.
2:34
Jenny Oliver: That'd be easy for me though, 'cause I struggle
2:36
swallowing supplements, so that would be great if we could do that.
2:40
Chris Smith: But No, definitely.
2:41
I mean, that, that is one consideration, you know, the, the, the size.
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But the other consideration is, is the product form itself.
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So without excipients, you'd literally have a pile of
2:49
powder rather than a tablet.
2:51
So, and in the case of vitamin.
2:53
B12 or D three that you mentioned, it'd be a very small pile of powder.
2:57
But if we talk about what the, what these ingredients or excipients actually
3:00
do, there are several categories depending on the product type.
3:03
So with the example of tablets, we need binders, uh, to like
3:07
literally hold the tablet together or in the case of capsules.
3:11
So these are the, the hard two shellings that snap together filled with a powder.
3:16
We need these ingredients to actually get the mix into the capsule itself.
3:22
Um, because it needs a little bit of flow to do that.
3:25
So if you think of a beach, we like to think of the beach, right?
3:29
Matt Edmundson: All the time.
3:29
Chris Smith: You've got fine beach sand versus kind of wet sandcastle sand.
3:34
If you've got fine beach sand, you could flow it through your fingers, right?
3:38
It'd be almost like flowing a liquid.
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You could get that into a, a small capsule very easily through a machine or whatever.
3:43
But if you've got big, wet, horrible sand, you can make a lovely sandcastle,
3:48
but you've got no chance of getting that into a capsule because it's.
3:51
Well, it's too big and heavy and wouldn't flow at all.
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So what we need in these situations is something to give that flow or improve
3:59
the flow if it's not quite there.
4:01
Jenny Oliver: Okay, so let's leave the beach and think a
4:04
bit about some of the main, um.
4:07
Ingredients that people get worried about.
4:09
So let's start with magnesium stir rate, which is probably the most controversial.
4:14
So Chris, what is it?
4:16
Chris Smith: So magnesium stir rate is a salt of stir acid,
4:19
which is totally natural.
4:21
It's a natural ingredient We consume all day, every day in things like cooking
4:25
oil, chocolate, or any oily food.
4:28
And in supplements, we use a very small amount of magnesium steer rate, like
4:31
milligram quantities to improve the flow of nutrients and help to form tablets.
4:36
Uh, when it comes to capsules without it, those ingredients often
4:40
stick to the machinery or refuse to go into the capsules like that
4:43
wet sandcastle sand I mentioned.
4:45
Matt Edmundson: So what is the concern then that people actually have with it?
4:49
Chris Smith: Well, firstly, magnesium steer rate, it doesn't
4:51
sound very natural, does it?
4:53
Jenny Oliver: No.
4:53
Chris Smith: So that immediately kicks off the kind of camm phobia thing.
4:57
Um, but there have been some links with issues with magnesium stir when it
5:02
comes to the gut, um, and gut health, but they've been completely defunct.
5:06
So research shows magnesium Stir can actually improve gut health by
5:10
preventing biofilm formation and, um, all, albeit those benefits are
5:15
unlikely in a supplement because the levels are so small, it's
5:17
probably not really doing anything.
5:20
Jenny Oliver: And then there's also the dose issue to consider.
5:22
So the FDA considers.
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Um, safe up to 2,500 milligrams per kilogram of body weight daily.
5:31
So for like the average 70 kilogram person, that's 175,000
5:36
milligrams, whereas you may be getting 50 milligrams in a capsule.
5:40
So when you actually do the maths on that, it's 0.03% of the safety threshold.
5:46
Matt Edmundson: And that's if you're the average 70 kilogram person, which
5:49
I'm not and haven't been for a long time, but it's kind of ironic, right?
5:53
So avoiding supplements with magnesium steroid whilst eating everyday foods
5:58
like chocolate that contain far more of the ingredients seems a bit odd.
6:03
Jenny Oliver: Mm-hmm.
6:03
Chris Smith: Exactly.
6:04
It's just the spotlight goes on the wrong things sometimes.
6:06
Mm-hmm.
6:07
Um, so that's magnesium steroid.
6:09
Now silicon dioxide.
6:11
Also known as silica or sand.
6:14
And um, silicon dioxide is literally, essentially sand in
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its natural crystalline form.
6:20
You, you'll know this 'cause you often see little bags of, um, silicon dioxide
6:24
when you buy a, a handbag or you know,
6:26
Matt Edmundson: which you do on a regular basis.
6:27
Chris Smith: Yeah, absolutely.
6:28
Jenny Oliver: Or shoe boxes.
6:30
You get the little shoe boxes, don't you?
6:31
Chris Smith: Now, in supplements we use a tiny amount of highly
6:33
pure silica in its amorphous form.
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And what it does, it prevents clumping of what you're trying
6:38
to get into that supplement.
6:40
And absorbs moisture.
6:42
Jenny Oliver: But there is a legitimate concern about silicon dioxide being
6:45
a nanoparticle there, isn't there?
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Some research suggests that nanoparticles potentially behave differently
6:50
in the body and cause problems.
6:53
Chris Smith: Yeah, absolutely.
6:53
Right.
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When it comes to nanoparticles and the European Food Safety Authority
6:57
have been reviewing this particularly regarding use in infant formulas, but
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it's really important to distinguish here because most silica or silicon
7:05
dioxide used in supplements is non nano.
7:07
Which means the particles are larger than would be for nanoparticles
7:11
and are of no concern whatsoever.
7:13
Mm.
7:13
Matt Edmundson: So, hang on.
7:15
Silicon dioxide is sand right now.
7:17
I have spent most of my life trying to get sand out of my sandwiches when
7:20
I'm at the beach, but apparently in my supplements, I'm now consuming sand again.
7:25
Um, but it sounds, listening to you talk, it sounds like.
7:28
It's not quite the sort of clear cut, definitely safe story
7:34
of magnesium steer perhaps.
7:36
Am I hearing that right?
7:37
Chris Smith: It is, that's true because it's more difficult
7:40
because of this nano issue.
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But that's why it's so important to get clarity from supplement brands
7:45
so they can confirm exactly what they're using or indeed what they're
7:48
using and what they're not using.
7:50
So we, for example, we would never use nano-sized ingredients of any
7:54
variety in our products of Vegetology.
7:57
Jenny Oliver: Okay, so another ingredient that's often used is maltodextrin.
8:02
And this is an interesting one because it gets a lot of negative press online.
8:05
So tell us more about maltodextrin.
8:07
Chris Smith: Yeah, so starting with what it is.
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So maltodextrin is a material that is derived from starch.
8:12
So it comes from items such as potatoes or maize.
8:15
So again, it's a completely natural ingredient and of very high purity.
8:20
And then in terms of what it does, well, firstly, it's very useful
8:23
at helping to hold things together because it, it's quite sticky.
8:26
So it, it's great for that kind of binding, effecting it in a tablet.
8:30
But the other thing we found useful is multi dextrin allows us to create
8:34
a really simple chewable tablet structure that has a bit of sweetness.
8:39
And indeed we use it in our Vegetology vitamin D three tablets for that
8:43
reason, because it means we don't need a really complicated tablet formulation
8:47
full of additional sweeteners and ingredients to make it soften chewable.
8:51
We get all of these things from one single excipient being maltodextrin.
8:56
Jenny Oliver: So it's perfectly safe and in air, meaning it doesn't
8:59
do anything negative or positive at the doses used in supplements.
9:03
And the amounts we're talking about in a tablet are tiny again,
9:07
maybe a hundred to 200 milligrams.
9:09
Chris Smith: Exactly.
9:10
And that's the thing about the dose, which again, we've, we've come back
9:13
to, so you will see online claims about multi dextrins, high glycemic index
9:18
or negative effects on gut bacteria.
9:21
These concerns come from studies using doses that are orders of magnitude
9:25
higher than those used in a supplement.
9:27
We're talking about, you know, many grams per day.
9:30
Matt Edmundson: So it's literally then a case of it's the dose
9:33
that makes the poison right.
9:35
And these negative links have no real relevance on the
9:38
levels used in supplements.
9:39
Chris Smith: Precisely.
9:40
And that's a fundamental principle of toxicology.
9:42
The dose makes the poison, as you say, and the minuscule
9:46
amounts using the supplement.
9:48
Maltodextrin is doing exactly what we need it to do.
9:51
Without any effects, negative or positive, it's just doing its job.
9:55
Jenny Oliver: It's actually a perfect example of why you need
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to look at real world context.
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So yes, consuming large amounts of a certain ingredient daily from
10:03
multiple processed foods might have implications, but a small amount
10:08
in a chewable vitamin tablet.
10:09
Well, it's a completely different scenario.
10:12
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, and the filler free marketing then also misses
10:15
this point, doesn't it Completely.
10:17
Uh, so a question I guess would be, can these excipients or fillers,
10:21
as some people call them actually help supplement performance?
10:26
Chris Smith: You are way ahead of me here,
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Matt Edmundson: as always, Chris.
10:29
Chris Smith: So that's the thing.
10:30
So well-formulated supplements, they think about ingredient interactions.
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So there are some nutrients that shouldn't be combined or anywhere
10:37
near each other in the same formula because they might interact or
10:41
compete for absorption in the body.
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So good formulation.
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Means needing excipients to keep things apart or to change how and
10:49
when these different nutrients are released in the body for absorption.
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Whereas poor quality supplements often just lump blue treats
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together and hope for the best.
10:58
Jenny Oliver: I mean, this is all really helpful information for people
11:00
who you know, either never check the ingredients list on their supplements,
11:05
and for those who do you know.
11:06
In Vegetology, we often get asked, we get asked about ingredients all the time.
11:10
We get asked about carrageenan.
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Now this is a textbook case of research misinterpretation.
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So tell us about carrageenan.
11:18
Chris Smith: My favorite.
11:20
So firstly, carrageenan is a, a completely natural gum
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material obtained from seaweed.
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It's the kind of slimy stuff in seaweed together with the alginate,
11:31
and it's used as thickener in food.
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So you find it in things like, you know, desserts and and custards.
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And we use it in the soft gel capsules that we form, and we use
11:40
it in place of gelatin, which is.
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Animal derived and it helps to form the capsule itself.
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We need a tiny amount, like much lower than the levels of possible
11:48
alternative compounds to Carin.
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Matt Edmundson: So what are the concerns with this one and if it's natural?
11:54
Chris Smith: So the concerns are around inflammation potential, but
11:58
they originate from studies on a different material called Polygon and.
12:02
Which is a degraded derivative of carrageenan, and it's a completely
12:06
different, uh, compound, not even permitted for use in foods or supplements.
12:10
It's literally like saying water is dangerous because of
12:13
studies about hydrogen peroxide.
12:16
Jenny Oliver: Plus the studies run much higher quantities and on animals
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decades ago, and we know that animal biology differs vastly to human biology.
12:24
Chris Smith: That's right.
12:25
With carrageenan, it's the perfect storm of internet fueled nonsense.
12:29
'cause we have people talking about carrageenan while actually referring to a
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different compound tested on a different species at a colossally higher level.
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And it's tarnishing the name of a perfectly safe ingredient.
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Jenny Oliver: So what we're saying is if there's an ingredient listed that you see
12:44
and you aren't sure you're not sure about, you know you are not sure about it, or
12:49
you've heard concerning information about it, reach out to your supplement company.
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And ask them why they use it.
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You know, any reputable supplement company should be able to give you
12:58
the information you need about an ingredient to put your mind at rest.
13:02
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
13:02
And actually every ingredient should be, uh, listed, but unfortunately
13:07
there are some genuinely dodgy practices on there in this industry.
13:10
Let's be real.
13:11
Um, tell us, Chris, one of the, the things I want you to explain
13:14
is the salt shaker situation.
13:17
Chris Smith: Oh, the salt shaker.
13:17
Yes.
13:17
Matt Edmundson: Done, done, done, done, done.
13:19
Chris Smith: Yeah.
13:19
This was priceless.
13:20
So.
13:21
Bit of background.
13:22
So when companies manufacture supplements in capsule form, I mentioned
13:25
these are the, the two pieces that snap together and contain a powder.
13:30
You need a degree of flow to get whatever you're trying to get
13:33
into, the capsule actually into it.
13:34
So you remember that analogy I used earlier?
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The fine sand on the beach would go in quite easily.
13:38
The, the wet, perfectly sun castle sound wouldn't.
13:42
Um, so we need a bit of a flow aid.
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Jenny Oliver: So manufacturers blend small amounts of flow agents like
13:49
magnesium steer or microcrystalline cellulose directly into the
13:53
formula and list them on the label.
13:56
Chris Smith: Exactly.
13:57
Well, when it comes to the last beer list on, on the label, it comes to that now.
14:01
So you wouldn't believe what sometimes happens.
14:03
So there are some companies that have their vitamin mix or you know,
14:06
whatever they're trying to get into the capsule and it's got no flow.
14:09
And so they're failing, trying and failing to get it into the capsule.
14:12
So what they do.
14:14
Is they literally at their machine, they have what can only be described as a
14:17
big salt shaker full of a flow aid, like magnesium steer aid, and they're pouring
14:23
it in and kind of steering it into this vitamin mix, seasoning their supplements,
14:27
Jenny Oliver: seasoning their supplement,
14:29
Chris Smith: trying to give it enough flow to get into the capsule.
14:31
But what's crazy is because they consider this salt shaker contents to
14:37
be a lubricant or a processing aid.
14:40
They don't declare it as an ingredient on the product label,
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Matt Edmundson: which is wild.
14:44
Mm-hmm.
14:45
Right.
14:45
I mean, that's proper wild, isn't it?
14:46
So they're using the same ingredients they're criticizing other companies
14:50
for in their marketing material, but they're just not declaring them.
14:53
Chris Smith: Exactly.
14:54
But what's more, what's worse is they'll use far higher levels because if you think
14:58
we've got a perfectly optimized nice.
15:00
Blend that we've, we've done on a food blender, your Kenwood food blender.
15:04
Other brands are available.
15:06
Jenny Oliver: We're not sponsored by that.
15:07
Chris Smith: They're doing it afterwards, you know, in a, in a
15:09
kind of hopper above the machine.
15:10
So they'll need far higher quantities.
15:12
Mm-hmm.
15:13
And you can sometimes spot this.
15:14
So we recently bought, um, some so-called clean capsules, um, from
15:20
another company containing a plant extract that contained no fillers.
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We were intrigued actually to, as to how they'd done it.
15:26
So we, we wanted to take a look.
15:28
Um, and although the plant extract in the capsules was beige in color,
15:32
we could see white specks of, of powder, and there was even a, a white
15:36
residue on the capsules and in the bottle, um, in fact, let's just say.
15:40
It was magnesium steer white, but there was no mention on the ingredient
15:45
list of anything white at all.
15:47
Jenny Oliver: I mean, that's genuinely problematic.
15:50
Transparency wise, at Vegetology, we do list every ingredient,
15:54
including sub ingredients, don't we?
15:56
So if a plant extract is made with mal detection as a carrier, we declare it.
16:01
Chris Smith: Oh, definitely.
16:02
And plant extracts another great example.
16:03
So they always have sub ingredients.
16:06
So as you say, for instance, our.
16:08
Ashwaganda extract is extracted onto malted dextrin.
16:13
Um, and sometimes you use cellulose or, or starches too, but they
16:16
should be on the ingredient list.
16:18
But there seem to be a few occasions where one or two brands accidentally
16:21
forget to mention these things on the list and just say, Ash, gander extract.
16:25
Yeah.
16:26
Nothing else.
16:27
Matt Edmundson: That's mental, isn't it?
16:28
I, and we're not gonna name, names,
16:31
Jenny Oliver: name and, and shame.
16:31
Matt Edmundson: No.
16:31
Name and shame.
16:33
We should maybe do that one day.
16:34
I dunno.
16:35
But it's proper, sketchy behavior, isn't it?
16:37
Yeah.
16:37
Yeah.
16:37
And it's.
16:38
If, especially if they're using these ingredients and
16:40
not being transparent about it.
16:42
Chris Smith: No, absolutely.
16:42
And I think to forget to list flow aids or so-called lubricants or sub ingredients
16:48
is one thing, but to then be making a big noise about how clean or filler free the
16:53
product is, it is completely unacceptable.
16:55
As you say, it's not our role to name people or police it.
16:58
All we'd ever say is ask the question.
17:00
Yeah.
17:00
If you don't get the answer, that probably tells you everything you need to know.
17:03
Mm-hmm.
17:03
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, so I think we can conclude then
17:05
that filler free supplements.
17:07
Uh, that you see marketed aren't necessarily genuine, are they?
17:11
But also I'm, I, I kind of know the answer to this, but they're
17:15
not actually better quality either.
17:17
Chris Smith: Not necessarily, no.
17:18
And in fact, sometimes they might be worse because they may have
17:21
compromised on stability of the product or bioavailability, as in does
17:25
it get into the body and work just to try and avoid certain excipients
17:29
or fillers to jump on a bandwagon.
17:32
What ultimately matters is whether the.
17:34
Product contains the active ingredients that are in the right forms and
17:38
effective doses, and that the product's been formulated properly.
17:41
Jenny Oliver: So the filler free label doesn't tell you anything about
17:44
the quality of the actual nutrients.
17:46
A supplement could avoid magnesium stearate, but use poorly absorbed
17:50
forms of the vitamin or ineffective doses or combinations that interfere
17:55
with each other's absorption.
17:57
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, so this clean label thing then seems to have definitely driven
18:01
this pressure to make these changes.
18:04
But to make changes that it could ultimately compromise the products, right?
18:07
Chris Smith: It has, but it's fair to say the clean label movement, it
18:11
has done some good because I think on the whole it's pushed transparency,
18:15
um, and made some companies think a bit harder about the formulation.
18:18
So.
18:19
We've seen companies that would traditionally just import cheap multivits,
18:23
you know, the cheapest they could find.
18:25
They're now spending more time thinking about the formulas and, and the quality.
18:29
But you are right.
18:30
Clean label thing has also created some marketing nonsense, just like fair trade,
18:34
just like organic, and so many other kind of sweeping themes that affect the market.
18:39
Jenny Oliver: So
18:39
after listening to this, people might be wondering what they should actually
18:44
look for on a supplement label.
18:45
So if this is you first, check that the active ingredients are
18:50
in bioavailable available forms.
18:53
So that means, for example, vitamin D three, not D two, folate
18:57
for folic acid, EPA and DHA for Omega-3 and collated mineral forms.
19:03
And you should be able to see all this information on the label.
19:07
Chris Smith: Yep.
19:07
And secondly, look for transparency.
19:08
So that label, it should list everything, every ingredient.
19:11
That includes some ingredients, it should include process aids
19:15
or lubricants or whatever else, if something seems to be missing.
19:19
Ask that company directly.
19:21
Mm-hmm.
19:21
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
19:22
And the thing which I liked about what you said earlier is your white powder
19:24
test, if you're just joining in right now, that sounds a bit sketchy, doesn't it?
19:28
Jenny Oliver: Go back to the start.
19:31
Matt Edmundson: So if your filler free supplements have this sort
19:33
of mysterious white residue where the contents are a different
19:38
color, maybe, maybe question why?
19:42
Jenny Oliver: And falls consider the company's expertise.
19:45
Are they formulators with nutritional science backgrounds or marketers
19:49
sitting with a laptop and importing the cheapest multivitamins they can find?
19:53
Chris Smith: I mean, that's it.
19:54
I mean, Vegetology, we are formulation scientists.
19:56
It's what we do.
19:57
It's what we've been doing for over 30 years.
19:58
You know, we choose every ingredient deliberately.
20:00
We use the minimum necessary.
20:02
Levels of excipients and we optimize our formulas to deliver
20:06
them effectively to the body and, uh, for stability of that product.
20:10
But more than that, we're happy to talk about why we do what we do.
20:15
Matt Edmundson: Great.
20:16
So why do supplements then have these extra ingredients?
20:20
Well, because making supplements takes a lot of consideration to achieve good
20:25
stability, good performance, and to literally be able to manufacture them.
20:30
Jenny Oliver: Yeah, and the common excipients are safe at the
20:33
tiny doses used in supplements.
20:35
The research that raises concerns typically involves vastly higher
20:39
amounts, different forms or different exposure routes than the supplement use.
20:45
Chris Smith: That's it.
20:45
And the real issue isn't whether excipients or fillers are present.
20:49
It's whether the formulation is well designed, optimized to
20:51
deliver the nutrients to your body, and that that company is
20:54
transparent in what it does and why.
20:58
Matt Edmundson: And in this industry then there are some good
21:00
companies there genuinely are.
21:02
Um, and you can always tell them, can't, you're a good company.
21:04
'cause if you ask 'em a question, they're gonna answer it well and
21:06
they're gonna answer it honestly.
21:08
Jenny Oliver: Yeah.
21:09
So that's why supplements have these extra ingredients known as excipient.
21:14
So that's it for this week.
21:16
Make sure you hit that subscribe button.
21:18
We're unpacking the science behind everyday questions each week,
21:22
and tell us in the comments what questions you'd like us to explore.
21:26
Thanks for geeking out with us, but for now, that's it from me.
21:30
Matt Edmundson: That's it from me,
21:31
Chris Smith: and that's it from me.
21:32
Jenny Oliver: Bye for now.