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It's Friday I'll Eat What I Want · Friday I'm in Bed

0:00
Welcome to Friday. I'm in bed.
0:02
Podcast for midlife women living their best life but in bed by
0:06
10. We're here to chat and sometimes
0:08
rant about the news of the week and how it affects us and you.
0:11
I'm Kate, a 53 year old postmenopausal mum of two whose
0:14
happy place is at the front of a very loud gig, especially one
0:19
that ends. Early gem.
0:20
I'm 46 years old, I love running on cocktails and I'm child free,
0:23
but I am a devoted mum to two very spoilt pug babies.
0:28
Before we begin, we will occasionally be discussing
0:30
sensitive topics, but we will always notify you in advance of
0:33
each section and we can add support group websites and phone
0:37
numbers that will help you in the show notes.
0:39
Please do like and subscribe wherever you listen to your
0:41
podcasts and do leave us a comment.
0:43
We love to chat, as you can probably tell.
0:54
You This week on Friday, I'm in bed.
0:56
We're getting to the government suggestion that women's portion
0:58
sizes should be smaller and asking whether this is genuine
1:01
public health advice or just recycled sexist nonsense.
1:04
We're also talking about copying, whether it's ever OK to
1:07
lift someone else's work or designs.
1:09
Spoiler no and why inspiration isn't the same thing as
1:13
plagiarism. And finally, we're unpacking
1:16
Australia's under 16 social media ban and questioning
1:19
whether anyone actually thought it through, especially when kids
1:21
aren't even on Facebook and platforms like gaming chats,
1:24
Discord and WhatsApp seem to have been ignored.
1:26
So grab a Kappa or something stronger and let's get into it.
1:29
Hi everybody, and hi Jim. How are you?
1:32
I'm good. It's my.
1:33
Rebirth today you're. Rebirth date.
1:36
Tell me about that. I am four years old, so
1:39
Christmas 21, I had a stem cell transplant, which was part of my
1:42
cancer treatment. And when you have a, when you
1:44
have a stem cell transplant, they call it your rebirth date
1:47
because they like wipe out your immune system and everything.
1:49
You have to have all your baby jabs again.
1:52
So it's your rebirth date. So that was four years ago
1:54
today. I had that four years ago today.
1:56
I was bold in hospital waiting to feel even worse than I did
2:03
but today? And what are you doing to
2:05
celebrate? I have put myself into a hotel
2:07
on my own. It's got a bath in the bedroom
2:12
and I'm going to sit in the bath and watch TV all night sounds
2:15
like. Blessed Christmas films or just,
2:18
I don't know, Coronation Street? I might watch Christmas films.
2:23
I feel like I need to get a bit more festive.
2:27
I did my wrapping yesterday. I started the wrapping and I put
2:30
on the holiday. I always wrap presents to the
2:32
holiday, which sounds really kind of magical, except you
2:35
can't do both at the same time. You can't actually watch a film
2:39
and wrap your presents up. But hey, I made a stop.
2:42
To just stop for the Jude Law bit.
2:44
Yeah, they prefer chat back. There you go.
2:47
A little bit of a fact about me. A funny man to a pretty boy.
2:53
Well, I had the week from hell. My son had his jewelry stolen
2:57
from college. So I spent the week mostly
3:01
dealing with his anger, frustration and tears and
3:04
dealing with the police. And then my daughter got sick.
3:07
And so I was speaking to doctors.
3:09
And, you know, you have those weeks where you just chase your
3:11
tail the entire time just trying to deal with life admin,
3:16
official life admin, you know, like insurance companies.
3:19
And I'm glad that week's over. Yeah, well, it's Christmas next
3:21
week. Not to scare anyone.
3:23
So. And Are you ready?
3:24
You said you're not feeling very festive.
3:26
No, absolutely not. We've got no decorations up.
3:29
I've bought like 2 presents. Yeah, I'm not.
3:31
Let's discuss that later, because.
3:34
OK, we won't talk about that. Yeah, we've got way more
3:38
interesting things to talk about than my complete disorganization
3:41
today. We have.
3:42
So let's get into it. So, Jim, one of the things I
3:56
want to talk about this week is whether women should be fed less
4:00
than men. So put a bit of context here.
4:03
The obesity tsar is that what is that how you pronounce it?
4:07
And in the government has written an article in a Lancet
4:11
and one of his thoughts around tackling obesity is to reduce
4:17
portion sizes in restaurants, which is a good idea because,
4:22
you know, having a smaller meal is is great, a great, you know,
4:25
for for some people. However, what he has said as
4:29
well that this is would be really good for women and others
4:33
with lower calorific needs. Now, obviously this has kicked
4:37
off all over social and on, you know, this morning and, you
4:41
know, television programs and stuff because, you know, real
4:44
feeling of women, women's sizes, 80s sizes.
4:49
And is that really feeding into diet culture?
4:52
You know, is it, you know, inherently sexist, but also not
4:57
considering the fact that women do need to get eat, do need to
5:01
get fed, sorry, do do need to eat, you know, and you know,
5:05
could be pregnant could be where, you know, where are they
5:08
on their menstrual cycle? They could have not eaten all
5:11
day. They could have been exercising
5:13
and need food. And also women generally look
5:17
after themselves last, whilst we know that women need less
5:22
calories than men, but okay to have women sizes at, at the, you
5:27
know, in restaurants and cafes and all that kind of thing.
5:31
So let's talk about women's sizes first of all.
5:34
So I was quite intrigued by this one actually, because this is
5:37
like one of my, I won't get ranty, I promise.
5:41
We've had, we've had plenty of ranting from it recently, but
5:44
it's it's definitely something that I think about a lot as a
5:48
kind of, I would say, I would say former athlete now, you
5:51
know, played roller Derby. I was very, very, very active.
5:54
Obviously, my calorie needs then were a lot higher.
5:58
I just, it was the suggestion. I mean, as I understand it was
6:02
never government policy. This was theirs or whatever
6:06
suggesting that this could be something that's that's
6:08
available. It's kind of, I think on the
6:10
surface it's not a bad idea. Reducing portion sizes by 25%,
6:14
that's not a bad idea. And also potentially the idea of
6:18
offering a large portion and a smaller portion not necessarily
6:22
a bad idea. I think it was the suggesting
6:24
that this was specifically aimed at women because they had lower
6:27
caloric needs, because obesity is not a female problem.
6:33
It's higher in men, if anything. I actually read the stats,
6:37
didn't write them down, obviously, but it was yet very
6:39
slightly higher in men. And did you write them down?
6:42
No, you add that look on your face then, like I did the
6:46
research too. Yeah.
6:47
So it's actually very slightly higher in men.
6:49
So obviously we're all consuming too many calories if that's the
6:52
case, and having that policed when you go to a restaurant for
6:56
a nice meal out does seem a little bit kind of overkill.
7:00
But giving people the option of choosing a smaller portion and
7:03
therefore not feeling like they're wasting food if they
7:05
leave food on their plate is in theory a great idea.
7:09
Colouric needs vary. So.
7:11
Widely between different women, different men, different body
7:15
sizes that making it a suggestion that specifically for
7:18
women, no. And that's the end of that chat
7:23
anyway. I mean, absolutely.
7:26
I think first of all, we do need, well, obviously
7:29
everybody's different, but it is known that we need to consume
7:34
what again, it's need word need is wrong.
7:36
We don't necessarily need as many calories as a man, but this
7:39
having this ability to choose, you know, in 2025 is great.
7:44
And also, I think if I'm going out for dinner, say I need less
7:48
calories than my husband, let's just say so which is true.
7:51
He has he does a manual job, for example, he might need more,
7:55
want more, but I'm going to save up all my calories if anything,
8:00
to go to Pizza Express. So what I'm not going to do is
8:02
get get there and go Oh, actually, I'd like the small
8:05
one. Although saying that this isn't
8:08
an advert for Pizza Express. They do have a pizza with a hole
8:10
cut out and they. Put Yeah, they cut the basket
8:12
out. I know, but I do quite like that
8:14
for lunch if I can't manage it. So I think there is something
8:17
about having a smaller portion available because we do know
8:23
that you can't ask for the children's meal if you're not a
8:27
child. I was reading something online
8:29
about. It was an older.
8:31
Woman who wanted I think it was the Toby Carvery or something.
8:34
She wanted a child's portion and was refused and she was like,
8:38
but I'm not going to fill a plate like that particularly
8:41
should get older as well. She might, you know, might want
8:43
less. She might just have eaten who
8:44
knows already. But can I have a smaller plate,
8:47
the child's plate and was told no and it was like.
8:50
That's not fair either because actually if I'm a paying
8:53
customer, surely I can have the children's one.
8:56
I think it's quite nice to have those options.
8:58
Yeah, I agree. I mean, obviously we've spoken
9:00
before about the fact that I am taking a GOP one.
9:03
I am on Manjoro, and one of the things that that does is delays
9:06
gastric emptying. So you can't you can't
9:08
physically eat as much. Even even if I wanted to go out
9:12
and have 4 plates at a Toby carvery, I couldn't physically
9:16
eat that much. So the option to the option to
9:18
payless for a smaller portion fair pricing was something else
9:22
that he mentioned that if there were smaller portions they
9:23
should be fairly priced. Well, I think we all know if
9:26
they were aimed at women they would always certainly be more
9:27
expensive, but. I don't have a little pink tax
9:31
on it for the women. I mean, I'm not necessarily
9:34
averse to the idea of there being the option to have a
9:38
smaller portion instead of it specifically being marketed as
9:42
a, as a, as a child size portion that you could go, OK, I'm only
9:46
going to want a half plate of this, can I pay half as much
9:49
please? But the suggestion that that
9:51
caloric needs of this kind of set level, that women should
9:55
always eat less than men is very, very, very problematic.
10:00
One of the things I've also thought about it, though, was
10:03
that it seems such a if you're looking for ways to tackle
10:06
obesity, there are like way more things before we get to what you
10:10
eat in a restaurant. If you go out for dinner once a
10:12
week, it's not like everyone's. Yeah, I was going to say if that
10:16
because it's not like, you know, we've got cost of living crisis.
10:19
Everything's expensive. It's not like everyone's eating
10:22
out for dinner every night. So at the end of the day, it's
10:25
what it is, what we do every day that is affecting people.
10:29
It's lack of exercise, lack of bats.
10:32
So, yeah, so lack of the little bits of exercise, you know, the
10:36
little micro snippets. Walk into the shop instead of
10:38
driving to the shop. I've forgotten the proper term
10:41
for it now, but all those kind of things and food droughts,
10:44
people who literally can't access fresh and nutritious food
10:49
and therefore end up eating a lot of over processed, high fat,
10:52
high salt, high sugar kind of foods.
10:54
All these things feel like they should be way higher up the list
10:57
than just suggesting that when women go out for dinner, they
11:00
should. Order a smaller portion.
11:01
They should eat like but also haven't they, and I don't know
11:05
the details of this, the new milkshake tax that's come in
11:09
they're talking about and just just putting money on more
11:13
making things that are inherently sugary, making them
11:17
more expensive. But again, so, So what they're
11:21
doing is they're putting the onus back onto US.
11:24
So we, you know, if you want the sugary thing, you have to pay
11:28
more rather than telling McDonald's or whoever to make
11:32
the thing less sugary, for example.
11:35
It always comes back to the consumer.
11:37
It's a bit like plastic packaging, you know, buy less
11:41
things in plastic. Yeah, agree.
11:44
But it would be better to tell the manufacturers to stop
11:46
putting it in plastic so that we can't buy the plastic always.
11:50
It's put on us rather than the big companies.
11:54
Now I sound like a like, I'm going to get, you know, like the
11:57
conspiracy theory pharma thing, but you know, it's like, put the
12:00
onus back on the companies to do something rather than me going
12:05
out for a pizza every six weeks. You know why?
12:09
One of the, one of the, I believe one of the impacts of
12:11
the sugar tax was that a lot of companies did reduce the amount
12:16
of sugar in their items so that they could sell it for less.
12:20
So one of the arguments is, is that if they put that tax on it
12:24
so that it will cost more companies to stay competitive,
12:26
will reduce that in order to sell their products for less.
12:30
I believe that is one of the, which I mean, it does sound a
12:33
little bit like that argument about for trickle down economics
12:35
to me. Whereas it's all right, if we
12:37
make all the rich people really rich, the people at the bottom
12:39
get richer as well. That's not working.
12:41
So, but I believe that that's that's part of the intention of
12:44
it when they talk about paying taxes on things.
12:46
But it is always when they're concerned that there is this
12:50
obesity crisis. It is always stick over carrot,
12:54
isn't it? Well, there's a pub near me back
12:57
to portion sizes that doesn't have a children's menu.
13:01
The children can choose anything on the menu and have a smaller
13:06
plate of it, which I think is brilliant because children's
13:08
menus, back to sugar and processed food.
13:11
The children's menu most restaurants is like chicken
13:14
Nuggets, for example. So that's really good.
13:17
But it also allow they allow women or anybody to order the
13:24
smaller plate. So bringing it back to that I
13:26
think makes really economic sense as well, because you don't
13:30
have the food ways and that restaurant, you cannot get a
13:33
table there. It's always fully booked because
13:36
you know you're back to Toby Carvery.
13:38
You can have your roast, they do a roast dinner, but you can have
13:41
a smaller portion and it does cost a, I don't know, it's half
13:44
the price. I don't know, it is less.
13:46
So I think economically for the restaurants, I think that
13:50
probably would work as well. Yeah.
13:52
I mean portion sizes is one of the, is one of the ways that
13:55
they are perceived to like add value.
13:57
If you're like I've got this massive portion badly, eat it.
14:01
It kind of adds value in like the mind of the consumer, which
14:04
is again, one of the reasons why this isn't necessarily the way
14:09
to to tackle these things. Because I think we have this as
14:12
portion sizes increase, we start to, we do start to see that that
14:15
is a normal portion size rather than considering that maybe we
14:19
don't need to eat that much. You know, if we go out and it's
14:22
a treat that we should be having huge portions rather than
14:26
nouvelle cuisine, a single string bean arranged on a plate
14:30
with a sliver of chicken. But that is that there is huge
14:34
cultural shift that is necessary to stop people thinking of that.
14:39
And it's where does where do we leave?
14:41
That is the the retailers, is it on them to lead the way and
14:48
start telling us no, no, no, you don't need all that food.
14:50
But that then is very kind of patriarchal and kind of nanny
14:54
state. Isn't it just going you don't
14:56
need to eat all that food? Or is it on us as consumers to
14:59
start demanding the smaller portions?
15:01
Yeah. So is it on?
15:02
Is it on? I mean, I asked this question
15:05
and it's not like I'm expecting you to have the answer and go
15:07
yes, absolutely. I have the answer to that.
15:09
It's down to the, it's down to the government to insist that we
15:14
all, we all have smaller portion sizes.
15:17
But the answer to me, I mean, it probably lies somewhere in the
15:20
middle. Almost everything does, doesn't
15:22
it? Kind of just normalizing that
15:23
idea that you don't have to be stuffed every time you go out to
15:27
go out to eat would be would be a good start.
15:30
I personally massive favour of being able to buy a smaller
15:34
portion. Not so keen on them telling me
15:36
this is the ladies portion any more than I was when I went into
15:39
the. Gym and they told me that the
15:40
smaller bar was the ladies bar because it weighed 5K less yeah
15:45
I think ultimately that's the bit that's gone wrong, hasn't
15:48
it? The overall message that eating
15:51
less can help if you want to eat less or need to eat less because
15:56
obviously some people having just done loads of exercise
16:00
might want to eat more, for example.
16:02
But labeling it as, you know, really good for ladies, not
16:06
actually the words he used, women was the word he used just
16:10
reeks of singling us out. And that's the bit that
16:14
everybody is actually upset about.
16:16
That so much of diet culture is targeted at women.
16:21
They sell us products, stupid slimming shakes and exercise
16:26
gear that no one's ever going to use, and so much of that is
16:30
already sold at women that they're adding this on there as
16:32
well. Is just seems unnecessary.
16:35
Women know, don't they? They do.
16:38
And that's why everybody has kicked off about it because.
16:40
Yeah. And it was the same when they
16:41
started insisting that they put the calories on every single
16:44
item in restaurants with over so many stuff that it's.
16:47
I still don't think that that was a good idea.
16:50
I think. Do you think that works?
16:52
Do you think people because I look at it, but it doesn't help
16:54
me. It makes me start to overanalyze
16:58
like. Exactly.
16:59
And they want to do. We've got such a massive rise in
17:03
eating disorders as well and even not clinically diagnosed
17:07
eating disorders, you know, disordered eating is just
17:10
generally is a big problem among women.
17:11
And when you start offering have a smaller portion size, oh,
17:15
here's how many calories are in that you come out for dinner,
17:17
make sure you don't eat too much.
17:19
You're just adding another layer of problems on to people who are
17:24
in recovery from eating disorders and things like that.
17:27
But also when we're going out to dinner, I think that's what's
17:30
really clear here is hospitality is dead.
17:34
Like nobody is going out to eat to dinner.
17:37
Nobody can afford to go out to dinner.
17:39
And now suddenly you want to police us even more when we go
17:43
out to dinner. I don't know, 10-15 years ago,
17:45
people might have gone out for dinner all the time, but now
17:47
it's a treat going out for dinner.
17:50
And I don't want to be told that I can't have that size or made
17:55
to feel like I can't have that size.
17:57
And that size has got that that those calories in.
17:59
And I just want to go and enjoy myself.
18:01
And I think that's the bit the tackling it.
18:04
It is important, but going out to dinner is such a luxury that
18:08
it feels like the wrong time. Yeah, overall, I mean, I feel
18:12
like we spend far too much time saying, and to wrap this up, the
18:15
important thing would be if we lived in a completely different
18:18
world. Here we are again.
18:22
Here we are again. There's a much bigger cultural
18:25
shift needed, and I don't think single measures like this are
18:29
the kind of thing that's really going to help, especially
18:32
bullshit. So this one is fun.
18:45
Don't know if it's a bit niche, but I want to talk about Sweaty
18:48
Betty. Sweaty Betty for people who
18:50
don't know, I'm assuming they do our our a gym wear athletic
18:54
clothing gym producer. Yeah, that was an excellent
18:58
description of who Sweaty Betty were.
18:59
I'm sure the branding team would be really proud of that.
19:02
They sell, they sell women's gym wear basically, and that's what.
19:05
You like? Very expensive.
19:08
I get a discount because I'm personal trainer.
19:11
There we go. So, you know, yeah, very
19:13
expensive gym wear. I don't quite a fair bit of
19:16
their stuff. They do some really nice
19:18
leggings, running leggings particularly.
19:20
They were, they were one of the sponsors of the Royal Parks
19:23
Half, which I did earlier this year.
19:26
Basically, they're a very big company that sold themselves on
19:30
empowering women for a long time.
19:34
Recently, a personal trainer and influencer creator called
19:39
Georgina Cox is taking them to court.
19:41
She in 2020, she did a post that went viral with where she had
19:48
wear the damn shorts written down her leg.
19:52
And then in 2023, I just had to count years because I knew
19:54
they'd run it three years. In 2023, she got an e-mail from
19:57
Sweaty Betty that said, oh, we are running a campaign with very
20:01
similar messaging. To your.
20:04
Wear the damn shorts slogan. Do you mind?
20:07
And do you want to be involved? And she said great, Yeah.
20:10
So she took part in the campaign with Sweaty Betty.
20:13
And then in 24, they asked her again to be involved.
20:16
Do they mind if she? Yeah, absolutely fine.
20:18
The shops were wrapped in Wear the Damn Shorts.
20:20
They sold T-shirts. The slogan was everywhere.
20:23
And I believe she was paid for her.
20:25
Work. Again in 2025, they ran the
20:29
campaign and they did not include her and she didn't know
20:35
it was being run again. So when she saw it, she
20:37
contacted them and said hey, what's going on?
20:40
And they said our team wants to work with influences that they
20:44
new influences that they haven't worked with before this year.
20:47
And she was like, well, that's not really the point.
20:49
It's my my work. And she sent a cease and desist
20:52
letter. They then offered her something
20:55
kind of poultry like 4000 lbs. I think it was for future use,
21:00
all previous and future use of the slogan plus her never
21:04
talking about it. And she said put it all over her
21:06
socials and took them to court. So it's quite interesting
21:10
because that's them being everywhere and as a company that
21:13
sells each other on empowering themselves, on empowering
21:15
women's Betty. Betty have been stumped about
21:18
it. Their lawyer sent a letter
21:19
calling her bitter and just jealous that she wasn't included
21:22
in the campaign this year basically, which is all not good
21:26
language from a company that empowers women.
21:29
And since then another couple of people have come forward and
21:32
said that they've had slogans. Sweaty Betty have just lifted
21:35
wholesale and use no ifs, no buts, no ifs, just buts.
21:38
Was one of them with the Double T and something like supporting
21:41
you through movement, menopause and maternity or something like
21:45
that? Was were the slogans?
21:47
So the question is, can you own a slogan like that and is what
21:52
Sweaty Betty have done in this instance, is it OK?
21:56
Such a tricky 1, but I'm really interesting one because
21:59
obviously you can trademark A slogan, but if you haven't
22:03
trademarked it, then you don't really own it, if you if you
22:08
know what I mean. But is that ever any excuse for
22:12
literally taking somebody's work?
22:15
And it's happened to me over and over and over again.
22:19
So I, I came up with a slogan like a tagline for my wedding
22:24
business and a competitor literally used the same one like
22:29
3 weeks later. Like literally the word for
22:32
word. And, and what can I do about it
22:36
really? Because I mean, it wasn't a big
22:38
brand like Sweaty Betty, but what can I do?
22:41
It's just words. I don't own the words.
22:44
It's unethical and it's also lazy.
22:46
And that was how I felt. It's like, we'll make your own
22:49
freaking like liner. We've spent ages on the sofa.
22:52
Me and my husband, He's really good at copywriting.
22:55
You're coming up with the slogan and you've just taken it.
22:59
But then you're like, do I shout this out?
23:02
Does it make me look really bitter to use the lawyers words?
23:05
Do I look, you know, do I rise above it?
23:08
And then people, you know, you put it out there and people go,
23:10
well, imitations, flat. What is it?
23:12
Imitations, the greatest form. Of flattery.
23:15
Oh yeah. And it's like good.
23:17
No, because number one, this isn't imitation, but this is
23:21
100% the same. That's not in the it's stealing
23:25
and it's lazy and and now who knows who said it first, me or
23:30
them people might think I've stolen it.
23:33
So it's just, and it makes you feel so angry and so like
23:38
disappointed. And then you like, do I out them
23:41
on social media? And then you think, am I going
23:44
to look awful if I out them? Oh, and it's like, and it
23:46
carries on, doesn't it? Because you see, you hear
23:48
designers, you know they're being ripped off by Sheehan and
23:51
team you, Tim you, team you, you know, their designs are
23:54
literally lifted. But then you also hear of Marks
23:56
and Spencer's or Asda or whoever lifting people's designs.
23:59
You hear it and see it. All the time and it's not on.
24:03
There's a fine line between that kind of inspiration and
24:08
imitation. It's a very fine line.
24:10
I think particularly in this instance the fact that sweaty
24:13
Betty contacted her originally and said you're slogan yeah,
24:18
come work with us in this. There's there's kind of no
24:21
question of that. However they are I I'm no
24:25
lawyer, which will become painfully clear.
24:30
There is, as far as I'm aware, yeah, there is.
24:33
It's not something where copyright would be a thing.
24:37
So the intellectual property on something like a slogan, unless
24:40
you've trademarked it, which in this case hasn't happened, is
24:44
that essentially there isn't a leg to stand on if someone takes
24:47
it. So you've either got to kind of
24:48
try and yeah, so I don't know how the court case will go, but
24:53
I do think that the issue is a greater 1 of ethics and is that
24:57
an ethical way to do business. And having worked with have for
25:00
the first two years, why was it that they suddenly decided not
25:04
to in year three? Were there new people in who
25:07
didn't even know that it was hers?
25:08
In which case, why are they now doubling down on the issue?
25:13
Kind of they haven't. I think they released one
25:15
statement, but they they, their social media is just completely
25:19
ignoring it. There's been talk that there's
25:20
been negative comments underneath a lot of their posts
25:23
that they were deleting. And then they are getting
25:26
positive comments on some of their posts, which people have
25:28
then looked into because this always happens and found out
25:32
that they work for Sweaty Betty of course, like head of HR or
25:37
something. Yeah, and that is obviously
25:39
clear cut because there's the e-mail proof.
25:42
But I think I know when I come up with a name for something,
25:46
well, even coming up with a name for this podcast, you know, you
25:49
we brainstorm and I've done that on many things.
25:52
I've launched and, and phrases and stuff and I and then I go,
25:56
I've got it. That's a great name, you know,
25:58
or a slogan or whatever. I then go and check that nobody
26:02
else has got it. And if they have, I go back to
26:05
the drawing board. I don't go, well, who cares?
26:08
I'm going to do it anyway, which is the thing that so many
26:11
companies do. And I mean, in my case, some of
26:14
the things I've had has been people who are kind of equal
26:18
with me. Let's just say, you know, peers
26:20
or you know, that kind of thing, which is bad enough, don't get
26:23
me wrong. But when it's the big boys doing
26:26
it to small independent creatives, that's the bit that
26:30
becomes even more unethical, doesn't it?
26:33
Because it's like you think, and I'm not saying this necessarily
26:37
about Sweaty Betty. I don't know anything about
26:40
that, you know, But just it's like these companies feel I am
26:46
more important and I can get away with it.
26:48
Like Team you, let's just say they don't care that they're
26:51
ripping off somebody's designs and how I think they bank on the
26:56
little person. Obviously, you know, they're not
26:59
little, but you know, they'll they're perceived as little just
27:03
going, oh, well, not a lot I can do and then they'll carry on
27:06
type of thing. They're not they're banking on
27:08
that. So I think it's amazing when you
27:10
see somebody going no, actually, I will.
27:13
I you know, I will take you to court.
27:15
That's what this is, what I think it's amazing that she's
27:17
seen is through. Even if it's not a particular
27:20
thing that she might win, it's good to have it because I think
27:23
it's it will make a lot of companies look at their business
27:26
practices as well. Because I believe this has had
27:28
quite an impact on their sales and their reputation.
27:30
So I think that it will make a lot of companies look more
27:34
carefully at how they work with creators and where their things
27:38
come from. It is easy to occasionally you
27:40
come up with that fantastic idea, you check, you don't find
27:43
it and then you've inadvertently taken something.
27:46
But again, then there's that thing of owning up.
27:48
I wasn't aware dealing with people.
27:50
And I think one of the things when it's bigger companies is
27:53
that it comes down to that. Like apparently you can get away
27:56
with anything if you have money that they are, they are knowing
27:59
that the amount of money they will make off of the whatever
28:02
they've stolen is going to be greater than the amount it's
28:05
going to cost them if they're called out on it.
28:06
And I think that that's one of the things having worked for big
28:09
corporations and stuff, chances are that the internal team
28:13
haven't come up with it anyway. So they'll outsource.
28:15
Their marketing or their branding or their design work,
28:18
you know, it gets outsourced to big agencies who come up with
28:22
suggestions and then obviously it's decided whether they use it
28:26
or not. So yeah, there's this kind of
28:29
layers of ethics here as well because chances are, I mean,
28:32
obviously in the beginning, it's not just like one purse, two
28:37
people in a room coming up with ideas.
28:39
It's much, much bigger and it generally is outsourced to
28:42
advertising agencies and stuff. So they are potentially the ones
28:46
doing the nicking as well, but. Then as a company, when you find
28:49
out something like that's happened, your reputation
28:52
management has got to. Be exactly.
28:55
I mean, yeah. That's it's not, it's not been
28:58
dealt with amazingly well. I think it is difficult
29:01
sometimes. I mean, one of the things that I
29:02
had that was a bit similar, well, probably not at all
29:05
similar. What?
29:08
But yeah, you were talking about slogans for your wedding company
29:11
earlier on. I ran a website called Vintage
29:14
Norwich years ago and we had the Vintage Norwich Awards and I
29:19
owned the domain name Vintage Norwich.
29:22
And then I was suddenly walking over the other side of the city
29:25
and walked past their shops that had called itself Norwich
29:27
Vintage and bought Norwich vintage.co.uk.
29:30
That was a bit like about that. Yeah, exactly.
29:32
Because they have completely common words.
29:34
And I kind of, I kind of knew that they were completely common
29:38
words and that, you know, if you're a vintage shop in
29:40
Norwich, that's not necessarily a weird name to come up with to
29:42
call yourself. And I don't know who I was
29:44
behind it so, but you know, there's that little bit of you
29:47
that goes. Yeah, but I have this every
29:51
single week with my content. So obviously I'm Phyllis at 50.
29:55
I create content two or three times a day on Instagram and
29:59
TikTok. And like, I do like a nostalgia
30:02
reel on a Saturday, which is like, you know, remember these
30:05
toys or remember this stuff. And obviously that's not new.
30:09
Like, you know, I, I make them though myself and I put the
30:12
wording on myself and then this, this sort of influencer that's
30:16
got double the followers for me, created exactly the same post,
30:20
like in a carousel, not a video, same images, same text and did
30:26
it as a carousel. And so even the, you know,
30:29
things that were normal back in the day, but seem weird now,
30:32
which was the title, exactly the same, same photos.
30:35
And it's like, whoa, like I don't own obviously any
30:40
copyright over that, but you've even like used the same images
30:43
and the same words, like, can you at least do your own What?
30:47
And it drives, I mean. Put these words.
30:49
Into ChatGPT and tell it to rewrite it.
30:51
It's like like, come on, at least try and make it look
30:55
different. And I have this all the time and
30:59
I find it incredibly frustrating and sometimes I do call it out.
31:02
There was a content creator again, bigger than me and I
31:09
don't remember what the post was, but it was she.
31:11
She made exactly the same post, the same words, but with her
31:15
photos. And I was like, no, I've had
31:19
enough. I've had enough of this.
31:21
So I wrote underneath instead of calling her out, I went,
31:24
couldn't agree more. I made a post all about this
31:26
chatting about this very subject last week, so I wasn't saying
31:30
but you stole it. But I was going I see you, I see
31:34
you. And interestingly, within about
31:37
two minutes, she had changed her caption to say the post was
31:40
influenced by me. And I thought, but I didn't call
31:43
and I didn't then say thank you. I didn't.
31:45
I just made it like, really like, yeah, really important
31:48
point. I was chatting about this
31:50
earlier, you know, IE yeah, I see you and it works.
31:53
So you can kind of call it out without Mega.
31:55
Calling it out, but again, again.
31:57
I mean, back in my blogging days, I'm sure that there is,
32:01
it's difficult if you were like if you're reading a lot on
32:03
consuming a lot of content, sometimes you forget, might
32:06
forget where you've seen something or you just kind of
32:09
something pops up in your head and you're like, I don't know
32:11
where this came from, but I'm going to do it.
32:13
So it is easy to make that mistake.
32:15
But again, I think that sometimes if you are called out
32:17
on it, yeah, how you deal with it is, is one of the very
32:20
important things in the in the kind of online space, that kind
32:23
of being seen as trustworthy, I think is really important.
32:28
And for even for big companies, because at the end of the day,
32:31
they might have a lot of money and they might have a lot of
32:33
influence, but they are still working in the same space as the
32:37
small creators when they're on, when they're on Instagram,
32:40
they're working in that same space.
32:41
So they need to build that same level of trust with that with
32:45
their with their audiences. And I think that as a consumer,
32:48
if somebody, if I then find out that a company has been, has
32:52
been mean, it might be perfectly legal, but it's mean and it
32:56
makes me think less most of them.
32:58
As a company that that kind of brand respect with the whole
33:01
council culture thing, let's go. You know, you'd be it's amazing
33:05
how people aren't scared of being cancelled or being, you
33:09
know, because as you said, if they're all those negative
33:11
comments on a post. I mean, I have negative comments
33:15
on post sometimes and not trolling, just disagreeing, you
33:19
know, a lot with me, for example.
33:21
And sometimes it's, it's like, and I think like I, I almost
33:25
want to delete it. And some people say just delete.
33:27
And it's like, well, no, because if I delete anything that
33:30
disagrees with me, then I look like I'm, you know, above
33:34
everybody else. And what I say is right.
33:36
And so it's, I think it's OK to keep, you know, disagreements up
33:41
there, but even I sometimes think, oh, so take this down.
33:44
And so to actively remove anything negative and not leave
33:48
any up again just shows that they know they know it's wrong
33:53
because they know they know and they're not, and they're not
33:56
taking. Responsibility for what happened
33:59
anyway, this is this is one that I am going to watch with
34:01
interest because I am I am very intrigued by it.
34:04
Both of them like, you know, the legal perspective.
34:06
Is there any callback on this? And are like our copyright and
34:11
trademark laws, are they still relevant for the digital age is
34:14
quite interesting. But also just from the brand
34:17
perspective, like the brand reputation perspective, it's
34:20
it's a very, very interesting one.
34:22
And yeah, I don't know if I need to find somewhere else to buy
34:25
leggings. Yeah.
34:26
But again, as I said, so many big brands are doing it like
34:29
you'd end up not shopping, you know, like it just needs to
34:33
stop. So another thing I've been
34:45
reading about this week is Australia banning social media
34:49
for under sixteens. Obviously this has been pretty
34:53
much well received because we know that young people are
34:57
spending a lot of time on social media.
34:59
We know it's affecting their mental health.
35:02
We know it's affecting their attention spans, their ability
35:05
to learn in the classrooms. There's like loads of reasons
35:08
why social media isn't great, although I'd say isn't great for
35:12
anyone, not just under sixteens. But what I found really
35:15
fascinating is they haven't. So they've banned like Twitter,
35:20
Facebook, Instagram, you know, Snapchat, the ones you'd expect,
35:24
but they haven't banned Discourse, which is a
35:28
communication app. They have a young used generally
35:32
by young people. They haven't banned lots of
35:35
gaming chats. They haven't banned WhatsApp.
35:37
They have, Yeah. So they haven't.
35:40
It feels a little bit like all the old people of which could be
35:45
my generation, have sat in a room and said we need to ban
35:48
social media for under 16. So let's ban all the social
35:51
media. I know Facebook, for example,
35:55
but not actually speak to anybody that knows anything
35:58
about young people to find out where they're actually hanging
36:02
out and where they're actually speaking because no young people
36:07
are on Facebook, but they are on Discord.
36:09
So they will continue you to communicate the news, chat
36:13
groups where people are mean to each other.
36:16
Those vehicles, if you like, are still there.
36:19
So I feel that if it was happening in the UK, I just know
36:23
my kids would just find another way to to access what they want
36:28
to access. So I thought, let's chat about
36:31
it, you know, So is social media bad, for example, like let's
36:35
start, let's just start there because it's not just about
36:37
children. Is social media bad full stop.
36:40
Sometimes I think that's I agree sometimes because sometimes.
36:45
I am way too balanced. I absolutely.
36:50
I mean, I've, I've have written some notes a little bit
36:52
organized because social media is bad, but also social media
36:58
can be good. So yeah.
37:01
What do you think? Think that there's at the end of
37:02
the day, you partially kind of curate your own feed on a lot of
37:06
social media like this, don't you?
37:07
So it can be bad because you can get exposed to a lot of kind of
37:12
things that give you body a lot of editing of bodies faces.
37:16
You can get things like skinny talk and a lot of diet culture.
37:20
You can get exposed to a lot of things which weren't meant for
37:24
the eyes of children under 16. They weren't created with them
37:27
in mind. So you can get you can get
37:29
exposed to a lot of that things. But equally, if you are creating
37:33
your own feed and you know, my feed is generally really made-up
37:36
of my little echo chamber bubble of people with very similar
37:41
opinions to me, you know, I don't see a lot of the Andrew
37:46
Tate's of this world unless it's some dude saying any rubbish.
37:50
So absolutely you do do curate your feed in that way.
37:53
But that can be like problematic for kids.
37:56
If they, they can, then like when their brains are forming
37:59
that they can, if they, they have a thought, they go and look
38:02
for it and then they're bombarded over and over and over
38:04
and over and over again with things which reinforce their
38:06
thoughts. And that's how it can lead to
38:08
that kind of spiral. So I think that banning those
38:12
specific networks, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook can help
38:16
with that side of it where the bit where social media can be
38:21
that negative input into something that's already that
38:25
you're already thinking. But I do think that it won't
38:28
help with the side which you talk about, which is kind of the
38:31
bullying side, which which people talk about a lot with
38:34
teenage teenagers these days. I sound like such an old lady
38:38
sitting on my porch with money I could knit when we were kids.
38:41
Someone was mean to you at school, you went home, shut the
38:43
door and they had no access to you.
38:45
You were there or, you know, that was it.
38:47
You could forget about it. Now they've got this permanent
38:51
window on the world in their phones where they these people
38:55
have access to them all the time.
38:56
So I don't think that social media ban like you said, will
38:59
help with that because they still have access to things, to
39:01
messaging things like WhatsApp and that kind of thing.
39:03
And that's where the home environment and whether they do
39:06
have access to that kind of thing is going to come in.
39:08
I think, yeah, as you said, there's good and there's bad.
39:11
So there is lots of bad stuff. There's lots of false news, fake
39:14
news, but there's also really good things for young people
39:19
online. So for example, I follow, or I
39:22
did follow teachers on TikTok giving GCSE tips to 15 year olds
39:29
on how to get a nine in English and, and my kids were following
39:32
those and getting tips. So there's actually education on
39:36
there. There are also people who
39:39
youngsters that, for example, are questioning their sexuality
39:42
or not questioning because they've already, they already
39:45
know who they are. And social media gives enables
39:49
them to find their tribe, if you like, which if they're the, you
39:52
know, only LGBTQ person in the school or that they know of, you
39:57
know, they can go and find people, people and they, you
40:00
know, find their communities. I think there is some positive.
40:03
But back to what you were saying about the algorithm shows you
40:07
what you look at. That's when I think parenting
40:11
needs to take a much bigger role around critical thinking.
40:15
I remember once, I think it was when Prince, when the when the
40:19
queen died and Prince Charles became king and, and there was
40:23
loads of Tik Toks made about Princess Diana.
40:25
It all came back up. And I remember one of my
40:28
children. My son, I think coming to the
40:30
table and just literally saying some blanket statement, you
40:34
know, about the death or about something.
40:36
And I was like, whoa, where have you got that from?
40:39
Because it was obviously like, I don't it was something like I
40:42
don't Charles murdered Diana or something.
40:45
It was like, really like the bottom line of what he's seen on
40:48
Yeah The. Conspiracy theory, Yeah.
40:51
So it but it's so it's therefore my role to say, OK, so where did
40:56
you find that? Where did you read that?
40:58
Where you know what you know and have those conversations.
41:01
And I think if parents aren't having those conversations, then
41:05
I suppose a ban is good. But again, is that is that
41:09
letting parents off the hook? Because we need to know what's
41:12
going on on their phones and we need to know what they're doing
41:15
and have conversations about it. Now, of course, the counter
41:18
argument to that is if they don't have it on their phones,
41:21
then you don't need to have those conversations.
41:23
Except I have two teenagers. I am well aware that they know
41:27
every single trick in the book to get on to what they want to
41:32
go on. So for example, currently
41:34
totally outing my daughter, you've now got to get age
41:37
verification for TikTok. Well, she, I don't know how, but
41:40
she's got a new TikTok account. It's BeenVerified.
41:42
Not sure how that's happened. Totally outing her there.
41:45
But the point is, is they will find a way.
41:48
So I think we need to be careful that we don't let parents or
41:52
schools or whoever off the hook of having those really important
41:55
conversations because they will find a way on there if they want
41:59
to. See, obviously I do not have
42:01
children, something which I am delirious about when it comes to
42:04
this kind of thing because it sounds like a nightmare.
42:07
I would not want to have pet to have parented myself through the
42:10
social media era. It would have been like
42:13
terrible. Nope, I'm, I suddenly there's
42:16
things and you go, no, I'm really, I'm really starting to
42:20
be the one that's like, I don't know, now you know, and it's
42:24
kind of, do we need other solutions in an age where
42:27
technology is moving so fast that we potentially can't keep
42:31
up? How, how do you keep an eye on
42:33
what your children were doing? I mean, I know it's like in the
42:36
70s you would just let them go and play in the streets.
42:38
Like no one knew where your kids were in the 80s.
42:41
Then I wasn't allowed to wear AT shirt with my name on it because
42:44
somebody might come up and go, hey, Jim, your mom says I should
42:47
pick you up from school. So then there's always this kind
42:50
of it goes through these cycles where you're like, Oh my God,
42:52
there's the panic and then there's and then there's the the
42:54
control over it. But when you're talking a kind
42:57
of digital, an invisible world, essentially.
43:01
Which is what we get online. How do you make sure that your
43:05
that your children are safe and that they, you know, it's it's
43:10
not easy, but I, I'm going to say something quite
43:13
controversial. I think I think there's no
43:16
excuse as a parent, if you have kids and they have a phone, you
43:20
cannot go I don't understand Snapchat get on it and
43:24
understand it because if you can understand Facebook, you can
43:26
understand Snapchat. You've just got to get on it.
43:28
And I get a little bit annoyed with that argument because their
43:33
welfare is my job. If you like, you know, it is my
43:37
responsibility. It's not Mark Zuckerberg's.
43:41
I mean, it'd be lovely if he actually cared, but he doesn't.
43:43
It's my responsibility and I see it all the time.
43:46
Parents going oh, I don't really don't understand Instagram.
43:49
And I'm like, it's not hard and I know it's for me because it's
43:53
my job, but like it's not that hard.
43:56
And if you don't and all, create guidelines with your kids.
44:00
I pay for my children's phones. My business does, to be fair.
44:03
The rule is is that I can look at them at any time without
44:07
notice. And some people would say that's
44:09
going against their rights, their privacy rights.
44:12
And I'm like. Can.
44:14
You see my face then. Yeah, No, no, to be fair, my my
44:17
son is about 10:18. I have, I don't look at his
44:20
phone. But my daughter, you know,
44:22
occasionally I do. I don't that often, but we have
44:24
conversations. I know people who's like my
44:27
daughter's not allowed to go on TikTok and I just laugh and
44:30
they're like, what do you mean? I said, well, I've seen her
44:32
making them. It's got a it's called a, a
44:35
Instagram, a fake Instagram. It's called a Instagram.
44:39
I think it's called a Instagram. The young people call it because
44:42
they've got their Instagram and then they've got their fin
44:44
Instagram, so they've got their fake one that their parents
44:46
don't know about. That their parents.
44:48
Don't know about I know it's called a fin.
44:50
Now I'm wondering if it is called that.
44:52
I'm sure it is, but they've all got that.
44:54
So the parent going my daughter isn't on TikTok when she's got
44:57
14 year old. It's like she she is.
45:00
And so I'd rather see it and you know, sometimes they make
45:04
content and I'm like, Oh my. But then I'm like, at least I
45:06
can see it. You know it's.
45:09
So do you think that there's a, because obviously there's lines
45:13
here where the there's a the government position, which is
45:16
what Australia's taken, where they've just gone?
45:18
No, as a blanket ban under sixteens not on there at all.
45:22
Is there a there a line? You say it's not marked
45:24
Zuckerberg's responsibility, but is it the responsibility of
45:29
these companies to provide parents with a way of monitoring
45:32
what their. Children are doing.
45:34
Do you think I need to backtrack?
45:35
It is obviously the owner's responsibility to make sure it's
45:38
safe for everybody. I can't sit here moaning about
45:42
Mark Zuckerberg and not take responsibility for my own
45:44
children. I think it's what I mean, you're
45:45
like, he's literally, let's face it, he only cares about making
45:49
money. I'm not saying that's right, but
45:50
that is, you know, he might say he cares about children, but
45:54
they don't. They don't.
45:57
I think potentially there is a yes, giving us the tools as
46:02
parents, but also maybe I think 16 is the bit for me.
46:06
I'm like 16. I mean, they're working quite
46:10
old. It's quite old.
46:12
They're using it to. So my son actually, no, he's 17.
46:16
But that's only just over, isn't it?
46:18
You know, he's using it to book gigs.
46:21
He's in a band, he's following bands and, you know, musicians.
46:25
He's checking out universities, not just on their website.
46:28
He checks out social media because they that these young
46:32
people have different brains to us in respect.
46:34
They've been brought up with it. So rather than Googling is this
46:38
universe diversity good, which is like what we might do, he
46:41
wants to know what people are saying on socials, what the
46:43
photos on socials. He wants to know the social
46:45
media side, not just the website side.
46:48
So. Potential but then an 8 year old
46:51
isn't going to be doing that so I think maybe for me it's the 16
46:55
bit maybe it should be thirteen of which they are supposed to be
46:58
anyway which they are supposed to be anyway yeah see what one
47:01
of the questions one of the questions I have about this
47:03
blanket ban in Australia is if you are saying you cannot use
47:08
social media until the age of 16 are you in a way disadvantaging
47:15
your your future generations as they get older in what is
47:19
essentially a global economy where that social media presence
47:24
is an important thing for businesses potentially building
47:27
a business for it's something that could be your job for
47:30
promotions and if you don't have access to it at all until you're
47:35
16 that's that's very late and a lot of other people have already
47:39
like it's like I've passed you and it's you've got to not only
47:42
learn it all from scratch that's going to be essential for you to
47:47
survive in the in the in the digital.
47:50
Well, my son, my son's been working for me since he was 15
47:53
and he does my socials. It doesn't do all my socials
47:55
obviously, but he does my Pinterest, he does my YouTube.
47:58
He, you know, that's his part time job.
48:02
But then I do again, you know, 8 year olds, 9 year olds, you see
48:05
them sitting with TikTok. But I remember like going to
48:09
India. So a couple of years ago, I went
48:11
to Goa and TikTok is banned in India.
48:14
And then I saw like 10 year olds literally looking at TikTok like
48:18
it's banned. But ever heard of a VPN?
48:21
I mean, like for example. And I remember once my son and
48:25
his mates were accessing Dorgy material on YouTube and I found
48:30
it and I spoke to the other parents.
48:32
We had a conversation, you know, you know what 12 year olds look
48:36
for online. So and my friend, one of the
48:38
mothers was like, right, I'm banning YouTube, you know, only
48:41
YouTube Kids or whatever it was. Yeah.
48:43
And it was like, but you can just go to Google and you type
48:47
in something and YouTube comes up.
48:49
You don't need to be signed in to look at YouTube.
48:51
So again, they'll find a way, but I don't think an 8 year old
48:55
will find a way, but a but a 141516 year old will.
48:59
So I think for me it's having the age.
49:01
Maybe we should just force under thirteens to not use it, but
49:07
then put more owners back on to the likes of Mark Zuckerberg to
49:11
look at their, you know, editing and and body dysmorphia and or
49:15
bad content. There was, you know, when the
49:18
new. Availability of like YouTube
49:20
Kids, the availability of that kind of Facebook kids or you
49:24
know what? So that, so that you've got an
49:25
introduction to it. That's not quite there is that
49:29
Oh, isn't it? There's so there's now age
49:31
verification here. I can't remember what it was.
49:35
Oh, my memory. Suddenly my son couldn't have
49:38
access to something. So he's 17, nearly 18.
49:40
Because he's under 18, he couldn't see.
49:42
It was something to do with the news.
49:44
It was something to do with an election or something.
49:46
I can't remember, but I remember my response was so somebody has
49:52
decided my 17 year old who will be voting in six months, you
49:57
know, like soon. And also obviously if the voting
50:00
age changes, he's can't see the news as is it's been like
50:05
filtered for him. But how are we then expecting
50:08
him to decide who to vote for? So it's again, it's that is it
50:12
nanny state? Is it like, I think it's the
50:15
teenage issue for me. I think it's, you know, I think
50:18
it's just like potentially not thought through so much and
50:23
taking, taking the onus away from the individual and the
50:26
family, but no, put the onus on them.
50:28
I mean, and taking it off the actual people that run the
50:31
company. I think in the way the digital
50:34
world works and the way that we use it is so kind of rapidly
50:39
evolving that it's a lot of the kind of laws and even like
50:43
principles that we've had growing up to now on kind of
50:48
relevant in this age for this kind of economy that it's really
50:51
difficult. I mean, it goes back to like
50:53
what we're talking about the copyright thing as well.
50:55
Is it like valid in in a digital age when everything is so, so
50:58
different that you've got to look at things in a different
51:01
way? So it's easy to say, you know,
51:02
this could be dangerous for children, but also restricting
51:05
their access to it, something that's so widespread, so broadly
51:09
used by adults and that they will need to use as adults is
51:13
potentially kind of could we limit the time?
51:17
Could we? You know, this is what I just I
51:19
kind of again, my words have. Gone as a parent is the more you
51:25
say no to something, the more they want it.
51:26
Oh yeah, I mean, I remember that.
51:28
Exactly. I mean, you must.
51:29
Remember that. Actually, Natalie, but also, you
51:32
know, even in the UK back to was saying about age verification.
51:34
My son now can't access Spotify songs that have parental
51:39
guidance record, you know, like swearing in.
51:42
It's like 7 1/2 studying music at college and he can't listen
51:48
to the streets because they swear or talk about drugs.
51:52
But I understand. But then I also think, oh, for
51:55
goodness sake. And I think there's part of me
51:57
that's like, we literally were playing on the street.
52:00
OK, We didn't have social media, life was different.
52:02
But like, are we going the other way that you can't hear a swear
52:06
word at 17? But it's because that's like,
52:08
can we get real? Yeah, but I'm talking teenagers,
52:12
obviously children. I think it's a good thing.
52:14
But I think it's the 16 year old and thing that, you know, riles
52:18
me. But also it's this whole will
52:20
ban Facebook but no discord. What it's like literally did
52:23
that. Did nobody think like how
52:26
actually young people actually use social media?
52:29
See again, this is what it comes to I guess I mean, I use discord
52:32
for a couple of things, but again, so I know how discord
52:35
works. I, I'm on a couple of discords
52:39
and my role in Derby team use Discord for communication and
52:42
there's a couple of other like communities I've joined, but I
52:46
don't know how teenagers are using it.
52:48
I haven't, I have no idea. So if you were talking about if
52:51
the reason for restricting the access to social media is to
52:54
protect them from harmful content rather than protect them
52:58
from communications that kind of with their friends, like the
53:02
bullying, the cyber bullying kind of kind of side of it, then
53:06
I think that you're likely that the access to Discord and
53:09
WhatsApp is more on that side of things.
53:11
But I have no idea what teenagers are using.
53:14
It we finish then for any for parents education.
53:19
For. Parents with randoms in.
53:22
But literally, I remember my son.
53:23
He must have been, I don't know, early teens within a group with
53:27
a load of randoms chatting about how depressed they were and how
53:30
life was bad. And then he was like, I want to
53:32
go and meet them in Birmingham. We live in Bedford.
53:35
I want to go and meet these random people.
53:37
And we were like, no, you're not getting on a train and meeting
53:40
these random people who could be 40 year old men who you know, or
53:44
you know, we don't know who they are.
53:46
And then we read it all and we were shocked at what they were
53:50
talking about with strangers. So it's not just the class
53:53
groups strangers. Hoblox is another thing that
53:56
hasn't been banned for under 16. That's a a game people use, but
54:00
it's also one of the most famous games of grooming kids.
54:04
So it's kind of like, yes, that's not bodies of morphia.
54:08
That's not like fake news. But actually it's really
54:12
dangerous too. So I feel like.
54:15
Protecting. Just have they done half a job
54:17
or I don't know that it's just more complicated.
54:21
And I think a lot of people like great, they've banned social
54:23
media from 16 and anyone that's got a teenager or understand
54:27
social media, it's like don't think you've quite hit the nail.
54:32
You know, whatever it's not, you've not.
54:33
I think for me it does sound like if they they've done half a
54:37
job, but potentially they've means that they there's only
54:41
half of the rest of it to try and manage as a parent maybe.
54:44
True, although, you know, judging by my kids and this is
54:49
again, I'm outing my kids at 1516, they'll find a way around
54:53
it. Absolutely think, you know,
54:55
young children shouldn't be on social media.
54:58
Absolutely. And I think we need to look at
55:00
what they are looking at. But I just think it's back to
55:03
being told you weren't allowed to wear makeup to school and
55:05
then it literally walking down the road and putting it on.
55:07
And I know that's not as serious.
55:09
But. They will find a way.
55:12
My children managed to have done it themselves, so they know
55:14
they're always. My mum, my my mum wouldn't let
55:17
me go to London so I told her I was going to like Bromley or
55:20
somewhere I think, and then went to London anyway.
55:23
But it's a thing when you go on a website, an alcohol website,
55:26
and it says are you over 18? And you press Yeah, yeah.
55:29
Is that it? I mean, I don't know.
55:32
They might. I'm sure maybe when it arrives
55:34
you have to give. I don't know.
55:35
But it's almost like, no, I'm not going to press no, am I?
55:39
So it's a bit like, yeah. So anyway, they'll they'll find
55:42
a way. It's a bit like, it's a bit like
55:44
lip service, making sure making it look like you're making an
55:47
effort to help, but really it's probably not going to be that
55:51
much help in the long run. No, and as we've said, we need
55:54
to fight fake news. Russian bots make leaving
55:59
comments to sway the algorithm one way politics being swayed by
56:04
bots and you know, like there are re and also the body
56:08
dysmorphia things editing. All of that is so important, but
56:11
it's important for everybody and that needs to be tackled.
56:13
But I don't feel like a just a blanket ban for teenagers.
56:16
I'm not talking about kids, Teenagers as such is quite the
56:19
way to do it. I don't know whether people will
56:21
agree with me. Thank you for joining us for
56:31
another roundup of midlife chat, hot takes, and occasional
56:34
moaning. Well, quite a bit of moaning.
56:37
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