Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Jay Seegert: Trust Me, I’m A Scientist

Transcript

Jay Seegert: Trust Me, I’m A Scientist · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

0:00
Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity.
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No topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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Hello friends, family, and Christ.
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Trust me.
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I'm a scientist.
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Have you ever heard those words or anything close to that?
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Yeah.
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Going back to COVID, maybe even longer, or maybe even university professors, maybe even
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real scientists.
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We're going to talk about that with our guest, Jay Seeger, in just a minute.
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I want to direct you to his website, thestartingpointproject.com.
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And I'm also going to mention, I wonder who won the presidential election, because we're
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a week out or so, and we are doing this show, pre-recorded, so we don't know.
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So it's kind of liberating.
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Jay Seeger, welcome to the studios today.
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It's great to be on the program.
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We were joking about if the listeners would call in, they could tell us who won, and we
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know how to time, and we could tell the whole world.
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Isn't that interesting, though?
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So let's save for this moment, because it's a week before the election, actually days
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before the election here, but you guys already know, hopefully, and I'm even wondering, you
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know there's going to be shenanigans, there's going to be some sort of fraud, cheating,
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and every election.
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And there could be chaos.
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So we could be talking to people right now, a week after the election, maybe they don't
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even know.
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Maybe we don't even know who the president is going to be.
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What are your thoughts on where we're at, and that just the oddity of, we don't have
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election day anymore.
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No.
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And we have a lot of problems with corruption, and just your thoughts on that, I know you're
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going to go back to the authority of the Bible.
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Of course you got me.
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I got your answer.
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Yeah, we're living in a very chaotic world.
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That's always, I always say it's always been slowly getting worse morally, but a few
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years ago, you know, the wheels fell off and it's gone upside down.
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And I was having a breakfast meeting with someone at a restaurant.
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And as we were finishing, I noticed probably about 30 feet away.
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There was an elderly gentleman sitting reading his Bible.
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I thought that's pretty cool.
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So I got up and I walked over to him.
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I said, great book.
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I won't tell you how it ends.
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And he laughed.
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But that's the point.
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If the things that the Bible talks about for end times, if they're really going to
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happen, and we believe they will, we've got to head towards that.
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And I think that's what we're seeing now is we are heading that way.
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We can't expect things to always be great and get better and better.
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And also, I think we were talking that whatever does happen, and again, the viewers already
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know, whatever happens, God is obviously allowing that particular outcome.
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It may not be good for us.
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It may make things particularly worse, but it's something that God is allowing.
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No matter how much cheating may have gone on, obviously God allowed that for his purposes.
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And I think it was Billy Graham's wife Ruth and Graham that said, if God doesn't judge
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United States, he's going to have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.
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That's right.
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We've seen God's blessings for many, many, many years because of choices we made.
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We're making opposite choices, so why wouldn't we get some judgment as well?
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Yeah.
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We deserve it.
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I mean, God's had mercy on us as a nation.
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You made me think of a verse over in Daniel.
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And we can talk about Daniel a little bit because before we were getting on the show today,
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we were talking about Isaac, the great, sir Isaac Newton, who wrote a lot about Daniel
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and Revelation.
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But over in Daniel chapter 2, it says in verse 20, let the name of God be blessed forever
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and ever for wisdom and power belong to him.
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Now, this is what's going to bless you guys.
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It is he who changes the times and the epics.
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He removes kings and establishes kings.
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He gives wisdom to wise men and knowledge to men of understanding.
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It's he who reveals the profound and hidden things.
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He knows what is in the darkness and the light dwells with him.
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But getting back to the sovereignty issue of God's sovereign over whoever won the local,
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state, elections, and the national election whoever is president and will be president
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of the United States.
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God is overall that and it's interesting.
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I think he's given us a long reprieve with the state of the church being so lukewarm
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in many ways overall and biblical Christianity declining the worldview, even among pastors
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and a lot of apostasy.
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And so I would like you to comment on that before we jump into science and what we're
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going to talk about.
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Obviously creation.
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By the way, Jay's book Friends the Latest is Creation to Christ.
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We've talked about this book before, but that's the most recent.
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But so your thoughts on that, just whatever you'd like to share on your heart to encourage
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people because like I said a week after the election, we don't know where everything is
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at right now.
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Sure.
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Obviously, our salvation isn't in whoever the president is.
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Some options might be better than others certainly, but the bad news is things have gotten really,
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really bad.
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Worst news is it's probably going to get worse and the worst news of all is we can't fix
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it.
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But the good news is God is not asking us to fix it.
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No where in Scripture does God say fix the world, solve all these problems.
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He's commanding us to share the gospel and the worst things get the easier it should be
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for us to share the only hope that exists, which is Jesus Christ.
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So even though things have gone crazy upside down, wheels have fallen off, people are screaming
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for hope.
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Everyone's wondering what in the world is happening.
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We have the answer in Jesus Christ.
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So it should be easier to get into these individual conversations.
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Again, not run out and solve all these social issue problems, but talk to your neighbors
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and your friends and people at the grocery store, find out what they're concerned about.
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Why are they concerned?
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What do they think is coming up next?
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And then it gives us an opportunity to share what we believe that there was a specific
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plan for the beginning of this universe and life.
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There's things going on in the middle right now, but there's also a plan for the end.
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We can share what that plan is through the authority of Scripture and what the solution
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is.
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So we have a pretty good platform to be sharing again, not to change the world, but to change
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individual life's fraternity.
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So doesn't the whole philosophy or the theory of evolution, if you follow the logical progression,
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aren't things supposed to be getting better and better going back to creation?
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They should theoretically, if you start out getting a big bang out of nothing.
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Everything came out of nothing.
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You're talking about a naturalistic version and the version of evolution that's taught
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in the school system today isn't saying that, okay, yeah, sure, God started it.
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But then he backed off and things kind of went on their own and then we ran into another
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hurdle.
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He stepped in and helped it.
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Life started with it.
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Well, they say they have naturalistic answers for everything and it's just nature doing
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its thing.
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It's survival of the fittest.
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So if one group wipes out another group, we can't say that's a wrong, that's survival
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of fittest.
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That's how our school systems are teaching as we got here.
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It was the most fit survived.
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But now if you try to carry that out, they say, well, that's wrong.
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Like, when did that change?
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I missed the memo on that.
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You told us it's a wonderful thing.
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That's how we got here.
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But now all of a sudden, you can't do that anymore.
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But if there is really no God, there's no absolute standard for morality.
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It's every man for himself or woman, do whatever you want and you can't say anything is
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truly right or wrong.
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You might not like certain things, but you can't actually label it as wrong because there
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is no ultimate meaning in life, no ultimate basis for morality if you take God out of
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the picture.
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Everything that the underlying thread in this podcast today is the Bible is our authority.
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The truth of God's Word is our authority.
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That's our foundation, which the world does not believe in.
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Let's go back to science now because we've had so many claims by quote, air quotes around
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scientists and science.
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Even Anthony Fauci said he was science.
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Did you remember that quote?
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I do remember that.
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Goodness.
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He thinks he's God.
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Very brazen.
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Oh my goodness.
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So there's a claim.
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Science is the only way of determining truth.
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How do you respond to that?
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Well, it's intimidating to do a lot of people when you hear something like that when they're
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basically saying science is the only way of determining truth, meaning forget that Bible
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stuff or anything else.
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If you want truth about the world or living, you got to go to science.
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Most people, even most Christians, would be intimidated by a statement like that and
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they're not sure how to respond.
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It involves critical thinking skills and it's something that you should learn over time
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and get better at.
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But all you have to do is you don't have to try to argue back.
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Often the best thing to do is to listen with the claim that's been made and ask follow
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a question.
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So in this case, when they say science is the only way of determining truth, you can ask
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them, how did you determine that science is the only way of determining truth?
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Did you use science to determine that?
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If you did, that's circular reasoning.
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You can't use science to prove science.
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But if you didn't use science, apparently there are other ways of determining truth because
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you yourself just used one right now.
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How did you come to that conclusion?
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Science is the only way.
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Well, some people, I think they buy the talking points.
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I think they buy just meaning they accept what they hear through the K through 12.
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Air quotes again, education system and the university system.
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And then when they're, of course, by the way, the word science doesn't just mean knowledge.
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Just means knowledge.
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Knowledge.
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Okay.
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Knowledge in the Bible, isn't there?
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What do you bet?
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And there's a big difference between science and scientific opinions because there's never
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ever a conflict between science and the Bible, never.
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But there are conflicts between the Bible and some scientists' opinions.
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Science doesn't speak for itself.
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It says nothing.
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You always have to look at some facts and figure out what you think about those facts.
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But the way you interpret those facts is by using what you already believe.
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So all scientists are looking at the same facts, but they're coming to different conclusions,
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not based on the facts, based on what they've already decided is true to begin with, whether
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they say there is no God or there is a God or somewhere in between.
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So they have a worldview?
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Yeah, you have to use your worldview, which is your starting point.
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You have to use that to interpret facts.
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If you didn't use that, that wouldn't be your starting point.
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But you start the world out with some belief system and you will use that to define everything
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else, whether it's science, logic, philosophy, ethics, morality, all those things are defined
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what you've chosen as your starting point.
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See what we did there?
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Plugged out worldview matters and the starting point.
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So Jay Seeger, you sent me some notes here and this question is really good.
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What did we do before we had science?
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I think that's a really good question, because we're going to, well, wait a minute.
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We just accept like science and textbooks, public school textbooks on science and what
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about scientists?
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By the way, earlier, we were talking about the fact that science doesn't speak scientists
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do.
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And every scientist has a worldview and too many of them are atheists, secular, humanists
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or whatever.
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So go ahead.
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What did we do before we had science?
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Yeah.
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And the larger context here is a lot of religious people and Christians are like to differentiate,
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but both groups.
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People are just generally religious and specifically Christians will often take a lot of the secular
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narrative and worldview, take that as gospel in a sense because it's science.
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I mean, you can't argue it's black and white, right?
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That's in their mind.
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And then they take that.
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And then when they're reading scripture, they reinterpret it to fit with the secular narrative
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because I think, well, again, that science, you can't argue with that, but the Bible can
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be interpreted in different ways.
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And so when you're reading Genesis, it's not a six day creation account because we know
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better.
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That's impossible.
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We have radiometric dating and big bang.
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There wasn't a worldwide flood.
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No secular gel just believes in that.
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So they continually go through scripture and say it doesn't really mean what it says.
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That brings up the question, what did we do before we had science?
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We'd have to think that God inspired Moses to write what he wrote, knowing that people
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for most of history would actually believe what was written, but God's cringing thing and
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okay, I didn't mean any of that, but eventually they'll have modern scientists to realize
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them on something completely different.
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But for now, I'm just stuck with them believing what was written.
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Plus, what do we do today for people who aren't exposed to science?
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Maybe don't have the ability to understand it or when you send out a missionary.
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Just send out a missionary then make sure you have an astrophysicist and a geophysicist
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with them.
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So when the missionary is done, the scientists can step it and say, okay, I know what you're
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probably thinking, what you just heard.
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It doesn't really mean that we're scientists, you know, trust us, we'll help you understand
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what the Bible really means.
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Well, again, then what did we do before we had science, which was for most of history?
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Wow.
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I like the way you set that up and explain that.
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There's so much that it's a couple of different directions we could go here.
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Before we got on the air, you talk about some scientists that you were going to share
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or some...
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I just mentioned that, you know, people think, you know, it's the bifurcation, and you
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either believe the Bible or you believe science.
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It's got to be either or.
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But the truth is, most major areas of science we have were found by Bible, even Christian.
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So this is one of the rare things that hadn't memorized.
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But I have a whole list of areas of science that we have today that were all found
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by Bible, believe, and Christian.
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So I'll rattle through them.
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Antiseptic surgery, baccaryology, calculus, chemistry, computer science, electronics,
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electro-dynamics, electro-maidenetics, fluid mechanics, galactic astronomy, gastronomy,
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genetics, hydraulics, hydrostatics, oceanography, optical mononology, paleontology, pathology,
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physical astronomy, stratigraphy, thermodynamics, thermo-kinetics, a vertebrae of a paleontology,
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and a scientific method all found by Bible, believe and Christian.
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Bible believing Christians.
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So were they scientists?
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Yeah.
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Christian, who says, no real scientist believes the Bible, they don't only not understand
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science, they don't understand history.
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This is where science came from.
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It was birthed out of the Christian community science, owes its origins to Christianity.
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Secular scientists know that they just don't like to talk about it much or admit it.
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They know that, but they just don't like to talk about it.
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Also, before we take our break, Isaac Newton, Isaac Newton wrote more on Daniel Revelation
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than he did in scientific discoveries, and people, most people don't know that.
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That was in the 1800s?
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Well, even before, there were things going on even prior to that, but yeah, they don't
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know about that.
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They don't like to admit it, but he's arguably the greatest scientist who ever lived, and
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he had extremely strong faith in Jesus Christ, but we think, well, no, if you're a scientist,
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you can't believe it.
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Well, there are tons of scientists today who are worlds leading scientists who are very
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strong Christians.
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Isn't that sad today, though, that you think, okay, he's a scientist?
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Okay, he can't believe in God, too.
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I happen to be part of another group called Logos Research Associates.
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It's the world's largest group of scientists who are Christians and biblical creationists.
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Two years ago this month, they asked me to step on become president, but some of them,
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Dr. John Sanford from Cornell University, he was an atheist for much of his life.
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He's famous for having invented something called the gene gun and search genes into the DNA.
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And then lastly, just one of those of eight board members we have, Dr. John Baumgarten
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or PhD geophysicist, he's built the world's best 3D computer simulation of plate tectonics
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and even secular geologists will use.
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So, and these guys are very strong, godly Christians.
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Wow.
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There's a lot more we have coming up with, Jay Seagard, again, the website, The Starting
15:27
Point Project dot com, we'll be right back on World View Matters.
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Freedom, project, media, app, get that on your iPhone.
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So back to Jay Seagard, The Starting Point Project dot com.
16:23
We got going into the conversation, we forgot to talk about your podcast and just share
16:27
a little bit about that.
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How can people get ahold of that?
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Sure.
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Start of that little over a year ago.
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We have about 88 or so episodes, probably 90 by the time people are seeing this.
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After Friday, a new one comes out, free Apple podcasts, Spotify.
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We have quickly reached the top 5% podcast on the planet, which has nothing to do with
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me.
16:47
This is a good thing.
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He's accomplishing something as long as I don't get in his way, he's let me go along
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for the ride.
16:52
But they're very skeptic friendly because I tell the skeptic, if you are listening to this,
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I am incredibly honored.
16:57
You're spending any time hearing what I have to say and I'm not asking you to trust me.
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I don't want you to trust me and I don't want you to feel this in your heart.
17:05
I want you to think about this, seriously think about this and we're not going to avoid
17:10
any tough questions.
17:11
So all about 90 episodes we've had so far, we just methodically go through things and
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really unpack it and think through all these issues, origin and universe, existence of
17:20
God, inspiration, scripture, creation, evolution, on and on, great stuff.
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Let's go to evidence for a minute.
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This was kind of could have brought this up a little bit earlier about the Grand Canyon.
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Oh yeah.
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So there are things that people don't believe about the global flood, that there was a flood
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and that's just a Bible story, right, air quotes.
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But yet there is so much evidence for those who are really willing to think it through
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and just to observe, just share a little bit about that because I know you do tours.
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Sure.
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Yeah, we've got a lot of tours that are six this year, doing seven next year and we take
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people there not to show them a big hole in the ground and you can go and see it.
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We take them there to talk about the authority scripture.
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The story account or the flood counting the Bible is one of the easiest things to make
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fun of if you avoid two things.
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Number one, don't read what the Bible actually says about the flood and number two, don't
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look at science.
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There's so much scientific evidence the Grand Canyon is one of the best spots on the
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planet to see this evidence.
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For example, you're standing on the South Rim, Kaibab limestone looking one mile down
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to the Colorado River.
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There's a hole in the ground there at the Grand Canyon.
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There's a lot of dirt gone.
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It's about 1,000 cubic miles of sediments gone.
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Okay, they tell us the Colorado River carved that out over millions of years.
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All right, if the river did that and brought all that sediment, it would drop it off at
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the end and a delta.
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1,000 cubic miles can you imagine the massive delta that should be there?
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It's not there.
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This was catastrophically carved out, washed out to the continental shelves in the ocean
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basin and remaining water trickles through the groove.
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The canyon created the river, the river didn't create the canyon.
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When rivers do carve things, they don't carve vertical walls.
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They do more of a V shape.
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Canyon walls are vertical.
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So many problems that layers themselves must have been laid down catastrophically because
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they're filled with billions of fossils.
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The only way to get fossils is to bury it rapidly.
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Those layers could not have accumulated solar over hundreds of millions of years.
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So we share things like that on and on around the rim.
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We raft on the river.
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We stay in hotels.
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We see dinosaur footprints.
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We go to antelope canyon.
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From our website, the startingpointproject.com, they can learn more about our tours.
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And sign up for the tours next year.
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Yeah, it's what you made a fascinating point.
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If you get to the end of that, where is all the rock in the sand and everything else?
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Where does that go?
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Just evaporate.
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It's gone.
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Yeah.
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And what's amazing is people, they're looking at the big hole, but what they don't know
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is where they're standing.
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Again, on the south rim or north rim, you know, the Kaibab limestone, there used to be
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another mile and a half of sediments above that point where they're standing.
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Well, the Colorado River, a mile downed in carve out a mile and a half of sediments
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above the top of the rim, the canyon, especially widespread.
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This was sheet erosion from a global flood and all that.
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We cover all that.
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And it's so obvious that river didn't carve out that canyon.
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Wow.
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It's just, I just want to ask a follow up question.
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What is one of the objections or what do they say when you explain what you just did?
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How do they explain that?
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Well, one of the things they do is if all the layers were laid on rapidly, you lose
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your hundreds of millions of ears and there goes evolution and everything else they teach.
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So they were very creative.
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Okay, you're right.
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It looks like the layers.
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Maybe we're laid down catastrophically.
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The time went by in between the layers.
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So one layer is laid on catastrophically, like let's say the Hermit Schale.
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And then it's sat there exposed for 10 million years of earth history.
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And then the coconut sandstone is deposited on top, nice, nice story.
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Here's a problem.
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If the Hermit Schale sat exposed for 10 million years of earth history, you would see erosion
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in the top of it.
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You'd see soil developing, plants growing, bio-terbation, animals burrowing up and down.
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And then that would be filled in with the next layer.
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It is razor sharp.
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This contact point between the two things.
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And virtually no time went by between one and then the next.
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What's interesting is 10 million years supposedly went by when you don't see a scratch in a sense.
21:17
But yet just six million years, the entire canyon was carved out.
21:22
How do you carve out an entire canyon in six million years?
21:24
But in 10 million years, you don't have a scratch on that layer that sat exposed.
21:28
So they try to come up with things.
21:30
It doesn't make any sense.
21:31
So speaking of skeptics, you talk about this, let's go to this though.
21:38
I want to get it before, gosh, six minutes left already, Jay.
21:42
So for most of our history in America, we taught creation.
21:48
And then I think the Scopes trial in 1925 and other things happened,
21:53
were lies were inserted, public textbooks, school textbooks were re-edited,
21:59
and the biblical worldview was cast aside.
22:02
So now they only teach one view, and it's a theory, but they don't teach it as a theory.
22:07
Evolution.
22:09
Why do we just allow this to continue when most people want to be taught,
22:16
hey, if there's another possibility, isn't that critical thinking?
22:20
Isn't that learning what the theories are and then let me decide?
22:23
But we don't allow that.
22:26
Critical thinking is a lost art.
22:27
And typically what happened is Christians became too quiet.
22:30
The church became too weak.
22:32
They soften their view on Scripture.
22:35
If the scientist approving the earth, there's billions of years old and all that,
22:38
we can't argue with that, that's science.
22:40
So we'll just go back into God's Word and we'll reinterpret it to fit with that,
22:44
because hey, you can interpret it different ways, and God's all powerful,
22:47
you can do whatever you want.
22:49
So your week in your stance on the authority of God's Word,
22:52
so you don't feel, you need to change this narrative.
22:55
And so they get away with teaching it.
22:57
They were upset that we were only teaching one view, creation.
23:00
It's not fair, you need to present both sides.
23:03
So now, they're still just teaching one view, but it's the one they want.
23:06
And we're told that you have to teach that because that's science.
23:11
If someone says, well, what about creation?
23:12
Thank you for bringing that up.
23:14
See, now that's a religious view, and we can't teach religion in the science classroom.
23:18
Scientists have been studying this, they've proven evolution's a fact.
23:21
If they come up with another option, they'll let us know.
23:23
But for now, evolution is good to go.
23:25
You can't question it, and everything else is just religion.
23:28
And you can't have your separation of church and state.
23:31
They're getting away with that because the church is largely silent, rather than saying no.
23:34
We believe in the authority of scripture.
23:36
Therefore, the science is going to match up with the creation narrative.
23:39
And at least the science should be able to be taught in the school system.
23:42
They don't need to teach Jesus Christ in the biology classroom.
23:45
But they can talk about DNA and the design structure that would scream intelligence
23:50
and purpose versus like, oh, just particles did all this over time.
23:54
Boy, this, when you say, you know, we religion,
23:57
you got to take God and the Bible out, secularism is a religion and environmentalism.
24:03
They have a religious, they have a world view to start with.
24:06
So they don't believe in God and say, and it's atheistic.
24:10
But yet, they throw the separation of church and state around.
24:13
Jay, we've got three and a half minutes left.
24:15
I was going to go through more of your notes here, but let's just talk to people
24:19
that want to be able to share or just the basics with their neighbors.
24:24
Or with someone, I think with all that's going on in our country, no matter who won the election,
24:30
I think we're going to run into some hard times.
24:33
And I think the more our country is declining in different ways,
24:37
I think the more people are looking for hope or they will be.
24:41
And I think there's going to be an openness to the gospel, I believe,
24:46
using times like that, people want answers, how open are they to answers?
24:51
Could you just speak to that for a few minutes?
24:53
Sure, my advice would be, don't poke at your neighbor or anyone else.
24:57
I'm trying to get an argument going.
24:59
The best thing is to reach out in a very caring fashion, let them speak first.
25:04
Say, what do you think about this election, whether that you voted for the same person
25:08
or not, where do you think our country is headed?
25:10
Do you think it's good or not?
25:11
And then the bigger question is more important than the election is,
25:16
every person is going to die at some point.
25:18
You can even ask them, what do you think?
25:21
What happened?
25:21
If COVID comes back and you die, what do you think would happen to you personally?
25:26
If you were to die right now, let them answer, don't say, well, that's wrong.
25:28
And let me tell you what's right.
25:30
Hear them out and then ask them, how did you come to that conclusion?
25:34
Because some people might say, well, I hope I go to heaven.
25:36
Okay, why do you think you'd go to heaven?
25:37
Well, I'm pretty good person.
25:39
I try pretty hard and they go through that whole thing and let them.
25:41
And then just say, how confident are you that that's true?
25:45
In fact, how do you know that that's the standard?
25:48
As long as you try hard, you'll get to heaven.
25:50
Where did you come up with that?
25:51
Well, it's just, that's just what I think and feel.
25:54
Okay, logically, what makes more sense?
25:57
If you were to die and stand before God, that he would end up judging you based
26:01
on whatever standard you came up with, or what do you judge you on his own standard?
26:05
Every single skeptic I've talked to this point has admitted, logically, it makes
26:10
more sense that God would use his own standard to judge us.
26:13
And then the person agrees.
26:15
And so I say, okay, then it would probably be pretty important to figure out what is
26:19
God's standard.
26:19
And they say, yeah, and I said, actually, that's what the Bible claims to be.
26:24
It claims to be the word of God, the God who created this universe, he designed it.
26:27
He has a plan for it and a plan for the end and what happens to us when we die.
26:31
It makes those claims.
26:32
I could write a book tonight, making all those same claims too.
26:35
I just couldn't back it up, but the Bible gives us a way to back it up by testing
26:38
with internal consistency, historical accuracy, prophetic accuracy and scientific
26:42
accuracy.
26:43
Go from there to see where God leads the conversation, but do it in a
26:47
conversational way that you carry, not just trying to prove their wrong.
26:50
A lot of listening and a lot of patience and not having to be right is what I'm
26:56
hearing.
26:56
And we continued to weave the thread of the authority of the Bible through this.
27:02
And as we came back to that at the end, thank you.
27:04
It's our only foundation.
27:06
Jay, um, the starting point project.com, appreciate your ministry and all the work
27:09
that you do.
27:10
And just thanks.
27:11
It's so good to have you in the studio.
27:12
Yeah, it was fun.
27:13
I'm glad it was in the area and this worked out.
27:15
I'll have to do it again.
27:16
It was fun.
27:17
All right, guys, uh, make sure to share the podcast.
27:19
That's how it's getting out there.
27:20
And we're even avoiding some censorship by you sharing in different ways.
27:25
So, uh, thank you, especially on a rumble channel.
27:27
We appreciate you guys very much.
27:29
God bless you.
27:30
And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.