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Svelte for Life (with Duane Deason): Operational Wisdom for Life & Business · More Than Before

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To be more than before is to look at who you were and how
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you're going to do whatever it takes in order to make you be
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your true self. Redefine what is success.
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Don't think of success as financial parameters or how big
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your house is or what you drive. Think about in the sense of have
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you supported your children? Have you been the best husband
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you can be? Have you made work life balance
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that really contributed to friends and family?
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Once you look at who you are, then you could be more than
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that. Hey everyone, welcome back.
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My guest today is someone shaped by perspective, integrity, and
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resilience. Growing up across multiple
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cultures gave him a wide lens on the world, and those early
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experiences truly did help him to not only be who he is today,
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but discover who he is. He spent his career helping
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organizations operate with clarity, discipline, and
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stewardship. He's ACPA, an author, a
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podcaster, a father, and someone who truly does believe that how
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we operate reflects who we are. Dwayne Deeson, welcome to More
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Than Before. How are you today?
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Wow, thank you Nathan for that wonderful introduction.
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I hope I live up to that, those expectations.
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So you have a podcast, which was surprising to me.
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I don't know a lot of people in your industry that have a
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podcast. Tell tell us why you started
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that podcast. Well, it was really component
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of, of what I had put out with my, with a book and how I was
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kind of transitioning my, my life where I had gone from
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trying to be a hardcore consultant.
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We're going into companies and sometimes working with them for
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a year or two. And then I decided that I
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really, it was really discouraging because I'd help a
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company for a year or two and then I go back and they were
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basically back to the same place where I had come two years ago.
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And so was, so I decided that it was, I needed an approach to
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teach people how to fish and not just give them the fish.
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And so I wrote a book to try to, to create that knowledge.
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And then I also started a podcast.
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This is really focused on how to help companies manage costs
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because they, a lot of them do it very poorly.
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And a lot of them start with headcount reductions and let,
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let people go, which really hurts a lot of families and,
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and, and it's just terrible for an individual to be let go and
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have to deal with that. And I, there's a lot of better
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ways to do it. And so I tried to present what
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is really the more thoughtful approach and a little more
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contemplative approach to how to manage costs.
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I love that. So take us back to growing up
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that you traveled a lot growing up all the way up until the age
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of 13. You were all over the world.
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What was what was early childhood like for you?
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So I don't even remember being in the United States till I was,
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I, I guess probably 7 or 8 for the most part.
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I was, we were overseas that whole time from starting at six
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months. So I was, we were shipped off to
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South Africa. From there we went to Saudi
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Arabia, we went to Sweden, we went back to Saudi Arabia.
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And then finally we did a tour in the United States.
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So I really had a very international perspective,
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didn't really look at the world the way a lot of people that
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don't get that opportunity to travel look at it.
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It was a great way to grow up, but it was also an adjustment to
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come back to my own country that that really didn't have the same
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perspective that I had, but it was a great background.
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I wouldn't trade it for the world.
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It really gave me a perspective and taught me how to adjust and
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try to appreciate a lot of other cultures.
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And it was a great perspective. And I probably didn't really
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realize that or appreciate it till I got back to the United
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States. But I saw a lot of the world and
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lot of different cultures and it taught me how to adjust and not
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be judgmental to other other people, regardless of their
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personalities. And when I went to school, it
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was international schools and there was no norm.
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There was you didn't have to worry about what who was popular
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or what music groups and those type of things.
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And so it was a great way to grow up.
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And I also got to see a lot of the world that I I think a lot
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of people don't get to see and really is gone now where in I
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was in Saudi Arabia where they were, they just come across
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their oil money. And so but they were still all
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two-story buildings across the country and in the middle of the
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deserts. And then same with the Blader
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went to China as a teenager and they were, and it was basically,
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again, all very few high rises. They had built these big
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beautiful highways with no cars on them.
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I remember watching at a during what they considered a rush hour
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and looking down, I would see one car in the distance and
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eventually it would come up and, and, and pass through and that
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would be the only car you'd see during rush hour.
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Yet they'd had these side bike lanes that were packed and, and
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they were full of people and, and there was one time I was
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exercising on my, on my bike that trying to get my work out
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and get in shape. And they pulled me over for
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speeding on my 10 speed. And they told me I had to be
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more careful and I wasn't allowed to do that.
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And it's so it was, it was just a part.
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I just saw a world that I don't even think exists today.
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And it was a great experience for someone who was younger and,
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and, and got to see that that insight.
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I'd love that it's it's so funny that you were pulled over for
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speeding on the bike. I'm curious, what were some of
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your lessons that like, I don't know what age you were at when
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you went to Sweden, but how different was that compared to
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being Middle East So. Sweden was wonderful because I
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was, I was at, you know, 7-8 years old and basically those
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cold much of the year. So you didn't get to wander
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around. But there was 0 safety concerns.
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I could, I just wander off. And neighbors were so nice and
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it was just a wonderful culture to be a child.
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And they were just, they're very appreciative children and it's
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just a loving environment and a loving culture where in Saudi
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Arabia, I was on a compound and you really didn't leave that
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compound on your own. You know, they and, and I, I
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guess part of it was safety for, for, for children, but also part
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of it was just that we didn't want to insult their culture by
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our standards. For example, we, I went to
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snorkel in the Red Sea and it was some of the most beautiful
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things. You can imagine it then because
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it was before the a lot of pollution to come around.
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So it's just like the rainbow in there when you're in the coral
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reefs, but you women couldn't wear, couldn't go there and wear
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bathing suits. You know, that was not that was
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not a considered acceptable. And it's, it was fact.
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It was considered an insult to their culture if we were to take
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that approach. So it was a much more
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restrictive life to live inside Arabia versus Sweden, kind of
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night and day. That's interesting.
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So do you, do you feel like that's actually helped you quite
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a bit in terms of navigating, you know, America really is a a
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melting pot of so many different cultures.
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Do you feel like that's actually helped you quite a bit later on
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in life, to be able to navigate different cultures and to meet
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people where they are? Yes, I would say later in life,
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so I would. When I came back to the United
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States, I was shocked because I was so proud to be an American.
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I came back and the the culture of 7th grade, 8th grade was was
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only who was popular. You know, what was the latest
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trends and I didn't know any of that.
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So it was actually quite a hard adjustment.
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And I can't been my hardest adjustment was to my own country
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when I when I came back here. But I certainly always
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appreciated the idea that later in life that I not only learned
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other cultures and and could appreciate that, but I think the
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life of an immigrant is such that they are never really feel
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part of the new culture and they've already left their old
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culture. There's something like there's
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I'm sort of limbo that they're in and I've kind of felt like
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that as well, where I felt like I was never fully an American
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any because I didn't grow up here and I didn't have that
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culture, but I was, but I had no other country that would really
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claim me. So you're kind of in this, in
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this limbo area, which I I enjoy.
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I enjoy that aspect and I relate to a lot of other people that
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are first or second generation immigrants that and, and that's
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because I can, I can relate and understand their culture a
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little bit more than I think Americans that never experienced
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other cultures can really can really understand.
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Yeah, that's really fascinating. So your parents, I would imagine
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you were very close with them growing up, especially, you
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know, in that area or in that era of traveling so much.
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What were some of the early lessons that you learn from your
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mom and your dad? So my my father is that classic
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50s and I would say both of them are, are kind of that classic
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50s where they believed in truth and honor.
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My father's most honest man I've ever met.
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And, you know, he's he's only lied to me once in his life.
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And it was I because he borrowed my car and he damaged it.
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And he started telling me this odd story.
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And I was just for the moment, I said my father for the first
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time, my life is lying to me, you know, But yeah.
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And you could tell he was so uncomfortable with it because he
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didn't want it. Obviously there's something very
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embarrassing happened. And I even at the end of that
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story said dad is someday you'll have to tell me the truth.
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But I had to respect that, that there were something very
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embarrassing to him that he felt like he couldn't share that
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extremely honest individual. My, my, my mother had grown up
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as a, as with a single mother, which in her day wasn't as
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common and, and, and was a little bit more shunned, who was
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an alcoholic. And so she, she, I had a lot of
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admiration for her because she kind of broke that chain where
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she, she did not have that, those demons and, and was a
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wonderful mother. And, and so I was very fortunate
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that both my parents were, were very good, honest people that
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cared about their, their family. And you do have to, you do spend
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a lot of time when you're, when you're in the foreign service
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with your family. And every two years that's all
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you have because you're starting all over again.
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And it, and so it does put a, a lot of a reliance and
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appreciation for your family. And sometimes it's, that's can
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be struggles and other times it's, it's a really great thing.
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What What were you drawn to in your earlier years of life?
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Were it like, were you drawn towards sports?
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Were you drawn towards education?
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Were you drawn towards art? Like what?
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What captured your attention when you were younger?
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So because each country had a different offering that I'd, I
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never, never adopted A specialty, you know, and, and
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when I was in Saudi Arabia, they had wonderful swim team because
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year round you could swim. And so I was on the swim team
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when I, when Sweden, not so much, you know, you know, but
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played ice hockey a little bit. But no, it was never, never
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really adapted that. And skiing was, you know, cross
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country skiing was huge there. And so you, you basically had to
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adopt what whatever that country had to offer.
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And, and so I, I would say I would, I end up being and, and
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probably still to this day, a little bit of a Jack of all
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trades and, and not good at any, You know, I was never gifted at
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anything, but I was always able to pick things up quickly and,
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and get competent enough in, in whatever, whether it was a sport
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or, or, or subject or in college or any other aspect of, of life
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really. So when you came back to the
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states, where did you start kind of falling into place?
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I know you were saying that you kind of felt like a little bit
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of the outsider. You know, you, you come into the
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drama of I was, I was just saying this to some of the other
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day. I was like, you know, kids are
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they're not necessarily horrible, but they find things
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about you that are different than everyone else.
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And then that becomes like your nickname, like for you, where
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did you start to find yourself like throughout your later years
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in in like high school, middle school, maybe even into college?
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So when I first came back and then this back to a little bit
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of parents making some very good decisions when I first came
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back, because I, no one would really accept my, my, my
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difference and, and perspective on the on the world.
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And, and that I didn't really know who's cool, who's not.
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The only group that was really willing to accept me were, were,
12:06
were usually troublemakers or people that, that maybe we're
12:10
down the path of drugs and those type of things.
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And so I started going down that road or they start that's, that
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started to be my friend group. And, and so it was going to be
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trouble. We were only eighth grade, 8th,
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9th grade, so you couldn't really get into the big trouble
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yet. But, but probably my parents
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realized where that was going. So they, they picked a post
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where I would, where I could go to boarding school.
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And so I, so I, I went to, they sent me to Kent Hill, Maine,
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which was in it just outside the capital of Augusta, ME in, in
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those few years, it wasn't like we had the global warming that
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it was cold and, and I, I, I was on top of a hill and you could
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not get into trouble there. It really straightened me out.
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And during one football season there, I, you know, again, was
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never going to be very good at football, but I considered
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myself my identity was there and and I broke my leg.
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And that was a turning point for me because it was one of those
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casts all the way from toe to butt.
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And it was, you know, couldn't, it was hard to be crutching
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around in the middle of winter in Maine.
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And I had nothing to do but I opened.
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So I opened a textbook and I started to study.
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And it was a turning point for me because from that point on, I
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realized a lot of my pride and a lot of my self esteem started
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coming from academic success and being, and that led to more
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interest and stimulation of, of, of an area that I really had not
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explored at all. And started that, that got, and
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I wasn't too late to get into a decent school and wasn't too
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late from there. I started doing really well and
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started getting a new good MBA program, got a really good job
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and, and, and my life kind of turned around at that point.
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Wow, that's that's really incredible.
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And it's funny because I don't know there, there's the way that
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we look at education today, I feel like we don't grasp like
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how to teach kids to love information, right?
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It's kind of not until you take everything away that they start
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to love to read or to get information.
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In fact, I was just realizing this the IT was this morning
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actually, because I went in and my daughter, she's 6 right now.
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And you know, she's, she's reading pretty basic things.
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And I walked into her room and she's laying on her bed with her
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brother and she's reading out loud.
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And I'm thinking, Oh my goodness, like this is this is a
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good thing. And I started to realize that,
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you know, we don't do TV, We don't do video games or
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anything. There's no screen time.
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So what do they have? They have they have things that
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they can build. They have things they can put
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together or they can read. Those are really their options.
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There's not really a whole much, maybe some sports here and
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there. But you know, those
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opportunities that we give our kids can kind of get drowned out
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like education, those things with so many things that we have
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going on. I, I, I'm curious as you started
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to progress through your college years and starting to maybe
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identify a little bit more of what you desire to do.
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Actually, I think it's kind of interesting because you didn't
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originally go to school, did you, for, for being ACPA.
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What? What did you originally go to
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school for? So during, while I was, while I
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was at my college, you, you had two years of liberal arts, so
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you didn't have to pick your major.
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And so they, I was standing in line in those days.
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That's how you enrolled for your, your new major.
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And so I going into my junior year standing in line, which
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they, you know, they, they start at 8:00.
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So you would have to get in line really early for US college
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people that was a big deal. And like all good college
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students there, I was staying in line with one of my fraternity
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brothers and we were sipping on a little alcohol and I would had
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picked a major for that was a brand new major called Computer
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Information Sciences. It was the first year of being
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offered and I was going to go and give it a try and that type
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of thing. And the fraternity brother that
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I was in line with, by the time, the hour it took for us to get
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through probably 2 hours, he had convinced me that that
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accounting was a much more exciting.
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You had to be drinking in order to kind of, kind of come to that
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logic. But he convinced me that that
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was a, the way to go forward with it.
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And I copied over his schedule onto my onto mine and, and
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enrolled in the same classes that he was in for that next
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semester. He never went to one of them.
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I, I, he took all my, he took all my notes.
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It was he was a genius, but it was but it was it was a life
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changing. You know, it's one of those one
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of those forks that rose standing in line having drinks
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before picking a major. And I didn't realize that was
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going to change the rest of my career path.
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And it's interesting how little things that if you're not
16:52
careful, can can change it for good or for worse.
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Yeah. Oh, man, that's so interesting,
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especially going into computer science, especially when that
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was the first, like it's, it's interesting to think about that,
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of how different your life might have been going into computer
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science versus accounting. You know, I, I know a lot of
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accountants and it's, it's funny because in their world of
17:14
expertise, it doesn't feel like they're the most, what would you
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say, exciting people in the world?
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But there they, they have outside lives too.
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And they have also interests that you, you actually at one
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point you rode your bike all the way across the United States.
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Tell me how you came to that decision.
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You know, and I, I very much agree with you on the whole the
17:39
the whole accountant aspect of it.
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And, and I think what was interesting about that time is
17:44
that we were lot into client services and they, they tended
17:48
to try to attract people that were outgoing and and energetic.
17:53
And because they that was who did best with the clients.
17:56
But then they gave you really dry work and so they gave these
18:00
people that had this great energy and, and great
18:02
capabilities and that I feel like it was stifled.
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Has it stifled it a little bit by by you know, by, by not
18:11
really challenging that the the the their employees, But so you
18:15
had to find that in other ways. And so I, you, you, you picked
18:19
other things that you enjoyed and, and one of the things that
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I learned and that I really appreciate a great life lesson
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is that between jobs I did never, I never felt like I had
18:32
to Start Stop one job and the next week start another.
18:37
I'm, I often when I was done with something when I felt like
18:40
I had really reached the peak of that, of that particular
18:43
position, I was ready for something new.
18:45
And many circumstances, I would take a couple months off very
18:49
common in Europe. And I would find something that
18:52
I was very interested in doing. And so one of those was sure
18:55
enough, biking across the country, it was with a Christian
18:59
group called wandering wheels. I remember that.
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And we would spend the nights we in in churches, you know, from
19:06
place to place. It was like kind of we went, we
19:08
went cheap and they and the churches were always welcoming
19:11
and they were so fascinated by people coming through with that
19:15
had different perspectives because of the everyone on that
19:17
bike trip was was unique personalities and and
19:21
interesting and just a great experience because I feel like I
19:25
saw a part of America I probably never would have because we
19:28
followed the old highway system and on the old highway system,
19:32
there were a lot of towns built that were really supported by
19:35
the highway. And then that all when once
19:38
those interstates came through where you didn't have to stop
19:41
anymore, all those highway towns really started to suffer and,
19:46
and really got kind of ignored. And so it was.
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It was a great way to see kind of rural and forgotten America,
19:53
a lot of good people out there and and a lot of beauty.
19:57
It's really fascinating because not only did you get to tour the
20:00
world, but you've also toured a lot of the United States, which
20:03
is is also another rarity. I find that, you know, most
20:06
people, they grow up in the same town.
20:08
They never leave that town, you know, and I was kind of like
20:11
that for a little bit, you know, up until college, you know, I
20:14
started off in Eugene, OR, nice little small town.
20:17
Everyone knows it now from, you know, the home of the Oregon
20:20
Ducks. But, you know, way back when it
20:22
was, it was, it wasn't really nothing really here in Oregon.
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And then when I moved up to college, I didn't realize that
20:30
there was a large city that was close by Portland.
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I, my world was just encapsulated in this small
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little town. And what's really fascinating to
20:39
me is you really got to experience a large part of the
20:44
world. And then you came back to the
20:46
United States, which is actually huge.
20:48
And you got to travel and see parts of the United States.
20:52
What were what were some of those key moments of getting to
20:56
travel with the wandering wheels?
20:58
What were some of those experiences that really anchored
21:01
in maybe some lessons later on that you would really start to
21:05
apply? I, I, you know, I, I think what
21:09
there's a lot to learn from, from, just from what different
21:13
people, from different perspectives can offer you.
21:16
If, because if you live in the world of, let's say a county and
21:19
though, you know, you're right, there's kind of the, there's a
21:22
stereotype there and it, and it's, and it's for a reason.
21:25
And you start to, you start to be hanging around people that
21:28
have your thought process, your pattern, you, you know, your
21:32
belief system and, and I, I feel like you can kind of stifle your
21:36
growth that way. And by whether it was me growing
21:39
up and seeing all the cultures, whether it was me doing a lot of
21:42
different activities. Another one I really stands out
21:46
to me is I, I scuba dived in the in, in, in, in the Great Barrier
21:52
Reef. When you went out there, you did
21:55
days where you dove, you know, four or five times a day.
21:59
You were diving, diving, diving. And I did that for a few weeks
22:02
and, and it was just all these different things.
22:05
You, you really learn what you're where, where you fit in
22:09
the world. And it's, and it's humbling
22:11
because it's not like, you know, it's not where you feel like you
22:14
were king of your hill there. There's no, that's not it at
22:17
all. You are a small grain of sand in
22:20
this big world and all you can do is try to treat people well,
22:24
try to be true to yourself and follow the principles that that
22:29
really make you are at your end of days going to feel like you
22:32
had done what you, what you could in, in, in this world and,
22:35
and, and, and leave proud. There's, you know, there's, you
22:38
can't take the money with you. I mean, you always love your
22:41
children, but you can't, you can't support them afterwards.
22:43
You all that you can do is give them what you can now.
22:46
So I, I, I, I really feel like I gained a lot of that perspective
22:49
through all the different things I've done that, that, that gave
22:53
me more of a well-rounded perspective.
22:56
I love that. And then at one point you
22:59
decided to start a business. You know, I think some of the
23:03
most insane people are those that say, you know what, I have
23:05
an idea. I'm going to go work for myself.
23:08
Tell us a little bit about that decision to start your own
23:11
business and to start building that.
23:14
Sometimes I said good and bad things can happen and sometimes
23:17
they can both be catalysts to, to interesting opportunities.
23:21
So I had a, a boss that I didn't feel that was, was all that
23:24
great. Wasn't I didn't feel I had a lot
23:27
of respect for him and didn't, and I didn't feel he treated
23:29
employees particularly well. And so I just said, you know,
23:32
I'm, I'm going to try to do this on my own.
23:35
I was, I was being successful and, and, and helping to bring a
23:37
lot of revenue and I was decided, well, why don't I just
23:40
hang out my own shingle and see what happens.
23:43
And sure enough, I was 27 at the time.
23:46
And so that was kind of gutsy and did not have a lot of money
23:50
in my name to, to try to start a business, but it went really
23:53
well. And I, you know, over the next,
23:57
gosh, I think I, I sold it in six after 6-7 years and at that
24:02
company and it wasn't, we weren't a huge firm, if you
24:04
heard a few huge company, but we were a tight knit group, really
24:08
enjoyed working with that group. I tried to give them what I
24:11
didn't have, which is far you started trying to really be good
24:15
to them and try to be and treat them fairly.
24:18
And I, I had the great experience on that.
24:21
And after that I, it changed really, I can't go back to
24:26
working for somebody that I just didn't enjoy that I didn't, that
24:29
I, that I doing work that I just really didn't feel like help
24:32
people. And so I, after that I, I've
24:35
started several businesses. I work for myself most of my
24:38
career and it's been very rewarding to me.
24:40
It is interesting because once you kind of start out on your
24:42
own, you realize how much work you're putting into things.
24:46
And as you kind of go down that road, there is a Crucible moment
24:50
in life that you get to choose whether or not you're going to
24:55
be a father that is present or whether you're going to be a
25:00
business person that's present. And obviously, you can juggle
25:05
both, but you have to choose in the world what you want to be
25:09
known as. That was a Crucible moment, from
25:12
what I understand for you is, you know, when you had your
25:14
first child of something needs to change.
25:18
Tell us a little bit about that Crucible moment.
25:21
Yeah, no, absolutely. I, I was defining my success by,
25:25
by, by financial accomplishments and whether I was able to have a
25:28
business and those type of things.
25:30
And sure enough that, that I would argue that you just, you
25:34
don't know what love is until truly, until you have a child
25:39
where you realize that you are everything to them.
25:42
And if you don't, and if you fail them, they can't succeed.
25:46
And so that the pressure on that and the, the fear of, of, of not
25:51
being what you, what you need to be for them, it changes your
25:54
life. And all of a sudden I could not
25:56
be the person I had been. And, and it was transformative
25:59
because after a while I realized I really didn't like that old
26:03
guy, the one who was working all those hours.
26:05
And there were there were years where I didn't take a vacation
26:09
because I didn't have an opportunity to do that, to do
26:11
that. But what I knew is that I needed
26:14
to be there for my, my son. There was my, my wife had some
26:18
complications after after birth. And so I had so I took time off
26:23
from, from my, my projects and I took care of him and I, I had a
26:27
bond that that I will never forget that I will always
26:31
appreciate it and change my life.
26:32
And he, he did more for me than I that I've done for him, just
26:37
by, by by what he has given me in order to to learn all what is
26:43
important of life. There, there really is a a
26:47
fascinating correlation between having kids and having a
26:52
business like there, there, there are some really important
26:55
aspects that we can learn, but there's also this piece.
26:58
I find that when people have a family and they have a business,
27:03
sometimes they lose perspective on one or the other.
27:07
I'm curious as you look back now on your journey in life, what
27:11
would you tell yourself as the early business owner and, and,
27:16
and having, you know, your son? What would you tell yourself now
27:20
or what back then? What you know now of you know,
27:23
taking maybe it was taking the vacation or spending that time.
27:26
What would you? What would you tell yourself?
27:28
Yeah, I, I think I would be tell myself to be comfortable with my
27:32
decision. I think at the, at the time I
27:35
was very conflicted because I felt like I had all these
27:38
opportunities and, and actually a, a good part of that was
27:42
during the financial crisis. So things weren't going well
27:47
that, you know, they might all my investments, my head were,
27:50
were, were losing tons of money. And so it was a very scary time.
27:54
And I, I, I remember just being worried that was I doing the
27:58
right thing by spending the time with my family, my son, trying,
28:02
trying to take care of him while my wife was recovering?
28:04
Or was the, it was the right answer to support them to, to
28:09
get back out there so that, to make sure that I secured, you
28:13
know, financially their well-being.
28:14
It was that which role should I should I have to, to play?
28:18
And I, I think and the end it was you have to tell yourself,
28:22
or I wish I could tell myself it's going to be OK.
28:24
You're doing what's right and every and all the if you do
28:27
what's right, the other piece of shit will fall into place.
28:30
And I, I, I, I wish I had, was more at peace at that time, but
28:34
the decision I was making and not quite as stressed, but I
28:37
made the right decision and, and I'm very, I'm very thankful for
28:40
that. What what were some of the
28:42
qualities that you learned early on in life that really helped
28:46
propel you to be successful in your career and also in your
28:50
relationship with your family? So, so my dad was a hard worker
28:54
and he wasn't afraid to work, work me hard.
28:57
So I learned, I learned from him how to accomplish things and get
29:01
things done and do to dig deep. You know, he he was an avid
29:06
gardener and he'd had me out on the weekends while my kid by my
29:09
my friends were out playing. He would have me, you know,
29:13
planting things, doing all the, all the yard work, whatever it
29:17
took or that type of thing. And I was at the time very
29:20
resentful of it, but it now I look back and it taught me a
29:23
work ethic that I, that I very much appreciate that I and, and
29:27
I, I did was able to apply later.
29:29
In fact, if anything, it's almost too much so that I tried
29:33
to have to how do I dial that back after a while?
29:36
You know, how do I, because you bring that home.
29:38
You, you know, it. I, I at work, it was yes, it was
29:41
very useful to be work and, and go, go, go and always
29:45
accomplishing things and driving and pushing people.
29:48
But you got to be careful. If you bring that home with you,
29:50
it, it can be a real challenge for the family to have to deal
29:54
with that. They, you know, they, they, what
29:56
they need is love, nurturing and support.
29:59
And they don't need the the same environment that you are at
30:02
work, the same personality you are at work in order to try to
30:05
accomplish things at at home. You know, that's, that's not, it
30:08
doesn't make for a successful transition.
30:10
You have to find, you have to find out, this is me at work and
30:13
this is me at home. And they need to be two
30:14
different things. How do you, how do you balance
30:18
being married and also having a business?
30:21
Because a lot of people that have a business essentially
30:24
they're married to their work and sometimes, sometimes work
30:28
kind of takes over the relationship from home.
30:30
You know, kind of like we were saying, you're you, you kind of
30:33
have to put that divide between who you are at work and who you
30:36
are at home. You're the same person, but it's
30:40
a different relationship, right? How?
30:41
How have you been able to balance both of those things
30:44
out? Yeah, well, and I have to
30:46
confess because maybe I didn't, because we're, I, I am divorced.
30:50
So I, so I, and, and maybe that was kind of part of it and
30:55
things fell apart during COVID and, you know, some of the
30:57
challenges that that brought about by when everyone's working
31:00
from home and being at home. So I, I, I'm not sure if, if I,
31:04
if I can claim success in that area, but I think I, I do, I, I
31:10
do think that I probably learned later that, that the time you
31:15
have to make time for everything.
31:17
And, and you have to, in particularly though, you have to
31:19
choose your priorities. And if your priorities are, are,
31:23
are going to be, I'm going to be at work and I'm going to miss
31:25
important events or I'm not going to give friends and family
31:28
and, and particularly a spouse quality time.
31:32
You're going to it's not going to work out it it's very hard.
31:36
It's a very tough formula. If you've chosen your career
31:39
over your family, you're you're you've you've decided that
31:43
you're not going to have a great family run home relationship.
31:46
And so that was a big part of what I I try.
31:49
I decided I was going to change early when my son was born and
31:53
it's it's work in progress. I can't I can't claim that I
31:56
would let it all go. And I've been chill ever since
31:59
my son was born. No, I I, I back and forth.
32:02
I'm still, you know, as when in many, I'm still doing business,
32:06
wrote a book, you know, out there doing totally different
32:08
things. It's a priority to me and I
32:11
still have to fight that battle not to get let myself get drawn
32:14
back into that world and make it my only world.
32:16
I love that so much, you know, and I, I love that you, you
32:20
bring up that, you know, maybe maybe I didn't do it.
32:22
Well, you know, as I look at the results, because I think
32:24
sometimes we get so far in our life that we forget to actually
32:27
analyze well, what went right, what went wrong.
32:30
It's easy to go what, what went right.
32:31
Sometimes you forget to go well, why, Why did things fall off the
32:35
the rail? But what's really interesting to
32:37
me is even hearing you talk about your past of, you know,
32:41
being able to travel around, get to experience a lot of different
32:45
small towns and businesses. You also got to experience that
32:49
as you're writing across the country, experiencing small
32:51
towns and businesses, there's something that's stuck within
32:55
that because you have a passion and you have a fire for small
32:58
business. What is it about the small
33:00
business that just really grabs your attention?
33:04
And I, so when I first started my career, that's almost all I
33:07
was working with, with smaller businesses, I should say, when I
33:11
started my first business in 27 and I loved it.
33:15
I though there's a passion with people that are starting
33:18
businesses. There's, there's a hunger they
33:21
have and it's a great community and, and they're supportive and
33:25
they're all rowing in the same direction.
33:27
And what became kind of unfortunate is after I started
33:31
to get into more helping companies control costs, it was
33:34
the bigger companies that were having the most trouble with
33:37
that. And so I started to get sucked
33:39
in more and more to larger companies.
33:41
And I, I still miss the smaller companies because that was my,
33:45
I, I felt like it was more me, it was more my identity.
33:49
I now I can think what I do is much more applicable to larger
33:53
companies. And I, I've had a much bigger
33:56
impact to those companies. And they are, and they are very
33:58
broken. When you, when you lift a, they,
34:01
the hood of a, of a company and you think you're going to see
34:04
some sort of nice clean engine. No, no Sir.
34:07
It is like a Frankenstein of parts that you don't know how
34:11
that thing's working. And, and so you, there's so much
34:13
opportunity. And the bigger the business, the
34:15
more challenges there are in that engine and the smaller the
34:21
businesses. They, they're, they, they just,
34:23
they're humming. And I, one of the things I put
34:26
in my book is that you can take an innovative group, your, your
34:29
research and development group from a, from a startup that is
34:32
doing great things. And if you drop them into a
34:35
large company, into a behemoth company, their productivity and
34:38
their innovation will plummet. And that, and that's because
34:42
that they are not that there's something about that small
34:45
business environment that, that just breeds success.
34:48
And that I, I think that's what are why you see so many of the
34:51
large successful companies. They're not 100 year old
34:54
companies, you know, they are new technology companies that at
34:58
that, that rose from nothing and some of them in a very short
35:01
period of time, creating some of the richest men, men, people in
35:04
the world, you know, and, and it's, it's because of that
35:08
innovation in that startup environment that that I think in
35:11
some ways the United States has almost over anyone else.
35:15
Well, it's interesting that you talk about that because when you
35:17
look at large business, there's, there's so much waste.
35:21
Like there's, there's all these things that get kind of over the
35:24
years, you, you get, you know, different, you know, systems and
35:29
things in place and the system supposedly serves a purpose.
35:32
But then after a while, it's never, it's never questioned and
35:35
you continue using the same thing over and over.
35:38
But yet maybe something else comes out.
35:40
You know, it kind of reminds me almost as like Zoom, right?
35:43
You know, before COVID, Zoom wasn't a thing.
35:48
I was using Zoom. I had a professional account,
35:50
which really drove me nuts because as soon as everyone
35:52
decided to download Zoom, they did.
35:54
They weren't doing so hot. When they.
35:56
Had that many people, but all of a sudden COVID revealed some
36:01
problems within companies and they started going well.
36:03
What if we could raise productivity instead of doing
36:06
meetings where everyone's going to the same place?
36:09
What if we just had a meeting virtually and all of a sudden
36:13
that really helped a lot of different companies to go, well,
36:16
we could actually maybe we have remote employees or maybe we do
36:19
this, maybe we do that. Now that also adds complications
36:22
to a business and getting engagement and all those things.
36:26
I'm curious the the book operationally spelt which spelt
36:30
I love the word by the way. Thank you.
36:32
Thank you. A lot of people don't get that.
36:34
Yeah, I think maybe maybe that might be a good thing because I
36:37
think some of the people listening, right, Like what did
36:39
he just say spelt? What it what does it mean to be
36:42
spelt? He define that for everyone
36:44
listening. So spelt is a way of just being
36:47
kind of lean and attractive and it just, there was so much when
36:52
you, when you looked at books that were taught about lean
36:55
management and lean marketing and lean those time there's
36:58
millions of them lean. And so I, I wanted something
37:00
that, that conveyed something slightly different cause not
37:03
only lean, but attractive. And, and it's, it's weird that
37:06
you would say attractive because why is it important for a
37:09
company to be attractive? And it's, you want, and a
37:12
company wants to be attractive because if you are, you get
37:16
better employees there, you get your customers who are more
37:19
likely to go there. Investors are more likely to go
37:21
there because it's part of you. If you're, if you're an
37:26
attractive company, you're, you're more successful because
37:29
you treat your, your, your employees better.
37:31
That's part of being attractive. So what the formula for being
37:34
attractive is being good to, is being starts with being good to
37:38
your employees, being good to your customers, being good to
37:42
your investors. And if you are those, if you
37:44
have that formula, then you're much more likely to succeed.
37:47
And, and it actually is, is a cost savings.
37:50
You know, I don't have to pay someone extra to come to work
37:52
because I hate to be there. No, there I, I, I can, I can pay
37:56
them normal wages because they like to be there and I'm giving
37:59
them a stimulating environment as long as I'm fair to them.
38:02
So being an attractive company, being spell I felt was a
38:05
important component that let a lot of people that in my
38:08
industry forget. They just focus on how do I cut
38:10
costs? How do I get them down to the
38:12
bare bones? And that's really not the
38:14
philosophy that I follow. Unpack that a little bit more.
38:17
I think I, I, I love that you say that.
38:19
That's not necessarily the, the philosophy to, you know, to get
38:22
it down to the bare bones, but it's actually to, from what I'm
38:26
understanding and you saying in, in your book, it's, it's really
38:29
about understanding what are the most important things that you
38:32
can use to operate efficiently. And not necessarily that you
38:36
are, you know, trimming out every single thing in your in
38:39
your company, in your business, but it's about how do we operate
38:43
within this business in a very wise way.
38:46
Exactly. And I think, I think a lot of
38:49
companies, they try to say, I'm going to cut costs so I could be
38:52
more profitable. And I, I feel like they've, that
38:55
they've missed something in between.
38:57
There is, they could, yes, they, it's OK to cut cost if you do it
39:00
wisely and, and makes a company more efficient.
39:04
But really it should be to unleash growth and innovation
39:07
because an efficient company is more capable, just like just as
39:12
an athlete, when if you, if an athlete is bloated and, and is,
39:16
is, is not working out and not accomplishing the things eating
39:20
well, it's going to, it affects their performance.
39:24
So you really want a, a company that is operating lean and
39:28
efficiently in spell in order to try to really have the most
39:32
potential that it can and, and that it can reach and try to to
39:37
try to reach that growth. And the and sure, profitability
39:40
can come along as well. There's that will follow prop
39:43
properly. But if your only reason is to
39:46
cut cost is to try to increase profit, I think you're missing
39:49
an opportunity. You can cut costs in order to
39:52
put that money into more innovation and more more into
39:55
growth and more into the business that would make
39:58
something better than it was going to be before and not just
40:00
some extra money that you get to whether dish it out to dividends
40:04
or shareholders or or something. In that order.
40:08
You know what's fascinating because I, I love what you're
40:10
saying about this because it also really does apply for those
40:13
of you guys are listening and you're like, oh, OK, I don't
40:16
know, I'm not in the business for all.
40:17
I don't know what we're talking about.
40:18
But this actually is very applicable to life itself too.
40:22
Is that in your life? Are you operating spelt?
40:25
Are, are you operating in a way that you're not trying to just
40:28
get more, you know, trying to add more into your life?
40:31
Because the heavier you are in life, not just physically, but
40:35
mentally in, in spirit, in all these different areas, the
40:39
heavier you are, the harder it is to shift.
40:41
In fact, kind of with what you were saying earlier about like
40:45
the startup companies, the reason why startup companies do
40:47
so well is because they don't have a huge operational budget.
40:51
They're constantly trying to figure out, well, how can we get
40:54
the most out of this investment? Is there something new in the
40:58
market that we can apply right now that will actually help us
41:02
to get ahead versus trying to throw money at a problem?
41:05
I'm curious for you, Dwayne, in your life, where have you felt
41:10
the biggest area of really maybe trimming off over the past maybe
41:15
five years? Where have you started to shift
41:18
in the way that you think about operationally in your life?
41:22
Yeah, and it's, it's interesting that you, you say that because
41:24
we're trying to make that transition because I thought
41:27
about writing a book called Spelt for Life, you know, to
41:31
begin, because I do feel like that those same lessons about
41:34
being lean and, and having a life that is simple and focused,
41:39
I do think makes for more success.
41:42
And so I, what I try to do in, in my daily life is I, I try to
41:47
decide what is important and, and from that, what activities
41:51
I'm going to do that are that, that fulfill that.
41:53
And I'm going to try not to let myself get distracted by things
41:58
that I would later not really appreciate and, and, and not
42:02
really find that I, I, I felt good about what it, what it,
42:05
what is to whether, whether I'm accomplishing something.
42:08
And sometimes that's as simple as I, I start to, you know, if,
42:11
if I'm going to watch a series on Netflix, you know, what else
42:15
can I do with that time? You know what else is important
42:18
that is important to me? Do I, do I need to have like I
42:22
thought about, do I want a beach house, something that I could
42:25
get away from and maybe that has some beautiful aspects of it
42:28
that I can be at the beach more. But I'm trying to keep a
42:31
simplified life because I feel like a, if you keep your life
42:34
lean, you have more time to give to what you, what really matters
42:38
to you. So I, I do try to believe that I
42:40
try to live what I consider a spelt life and, and I think it,
42:44
it feels great. I feel like I'm able to
42:46
accomplish what's important to me.
42:49
There's a, there's a quote I, I recently heard that boredom
42:54
Stokes creativity and, and I absolutely love that because I
42:58
think there's a lot of merit to that.
43:00
I I'm curious, how has creativity played a part in your
43:05
life? Why?
43:05
Why is creativity important in what you do?
43:09
You know, it, I think what, what I, what I liked about, and this
43:13
is interesting about being in a world with accountants is
43:15
they're not known to be the, the most creative group.
43:19
And so I, I, from a creative aspect, I'm like, you know, I'd
43:23
probably be considered, you know, pretty, pretty stellar.
43:26
But you know, you go to, I go to some of those marketing groups,
43:29
They're like, but I, I, I think, I think part of that is
43:34
recognizing things that aren't working.
43:37
And there's, you can do that in the business world where you and
43:41
what, what isn't really working for a company?
43:43
What is it really working for a department or a function?
43:46
And how are you going to improve that?
43:48
But you can, that's exactly what you can apply at home.
43:51
You can say what is not you, you take the same philosophy, what
43:53
is not working at home? And how am I going to, to fix
43:57
that? And what, what am I, how can I
43:58
contribute to that solution? And so I, you know, I think
44:02
that's what I think that's the fundamental of creativity is, is
44:05
kind of kind of how can you understand and create a solution
44:10
for, for, and sometimes out-of-the-box, you know,
44:14
sometimes it's, it's not, it can't, sometimes they're not
44:17
easy, but how do you find a creative solution to solve
44:20
problems? And that's helped me in business
44:23
and it's helped me in life. So I I I agree with you that
44:25
creativity is is an important trait.
44:28
There's so many things about your life that are really
44:31
fascinating to me, from the traveling to being able to I, I
44:37
think cycling is pretty, pretty crazy in itself.
44:40
There's a mental aspect of that numbers and, and doing anything
44:44
accounting wise. There's a kind of insanity about
44:47
that. I, you know, when you were
44:49
saying, you know, creativity, I was thinking of I, I had
44:52
recently just saw that there's like a, an excel spreadsheets
44:56
like world championship. Didn't even know that was a
45:00
thing. But evidently, if you love
45:01
spreadsheets and and you want to be the best of the best, there's
45:05
a place you I can go for that. You have so many different areas
45:09
that enrich your life, even like beekeeping, like yes, what is it
45:17
about exploring life that that actually gives life?
45:23
Yeah, I, I, I think you have to at least what I, what my
45:27
perspective is, is that I try to look and say, well, what part of
45:31
my life could use work and I, you know, then and how am I
45:35
giving back or how am I understand getting in touch with
45:37
nature? And that's how the beekeeping
45:39
thing came, came about because in many ways that be keeping
45:43
bees, it's a, it's a beautiful business, much harder than you
45:47
would think. You think you just set those
45:49
bees and little, little hive and everybody's happy.
45:51
No, no, no, they have they need, they need care, quite a bit of
45:55
care, but they they are, they're hard working and they're they're
45:58
if you could, I could just sit out there and just be listen to
46:02
them and watch them go. And they're, they're amazingly
46:05
gentle. The bees.
46:07
I mean, it depends, obviously depends on the high, but mine
46:10
were you can you, you, if you, once I get used to you, I can, I
46:15
could, I could have my bare hand and just, you know, rub the back
46:18
of them and they wouldn't sting me.
46:20
And so it's so in some ways it, it does kind of bring you back
46:24
to nature a little bit there and it kind of puts you in touch
46:27
with a part of the world that you, you weren't in touch with
46:29
before. Beekeepers are a unique and
46:34
beautiful human, human beings. They're just, they're fantastic
46:39
and they care about the environment.
46:40
They, they, they care about their craft and they, they act
46:43
those bees are like children to them.
46:45
They care very much about them. So I it's just another, it's
46:48
just another asset to, to round out your life, to find a
46:52
different dimension to your life.
46:55
What, what were some of those lessons?
46:56
I'm curious. There's, there's one other
46:58
person I've met who was a beekeeper.
47:00
What, what lessons have you learned from beekeeping that
47:04
truly do stand out and, and I've actually helped you in it sounds
47:10
strange, but in your interpersonal relationships with
47:12
other people. Right, right.
47:14
Well, I would say that the thing that surprised me about the
47:18
beads was just that I, I felt like I could pull up a, a lawn
47:23
chair and just sit there and well, let them kind of do their
47:26
thing. And this with the sound they
47:27
made and just watching them, it's a very peaceful, blissful
47:31
moment. They, if you ever try to take
47:34
their honey, it's a very different relationship, I'll
47:37
tell you that, and that the relationship changes very
47:40
quickly. And so we tried to do that one.
47:43
I, I, I volunteer at A, at a church that keeps beehives and
47:46
we, they had seven of them and, and we just started too late.
47:50
And so we, it was dark. We were trying to take their and
47:52
those bees were furious. And so I, you know, I got stung
47:57
all over the place on that day. So I, I kind of learned both,
48:01
kind of both spectrums of, of, of what life's about.
48:04
And that's true, you know, with people, people, if you treat
48:07
them well and if you are, are, if you're helping them, they can
48:10
be beautiful and kind and appreciative.
48:13
And if you try to take what something that is important to
48:15
them and, and, and hurt them, then then like those bees,
48:20
they're going to be very angry and you're going to see a
48:22
different side of them. It's the same bee.
48:24
It's just that you, in some ways you're the one that has changed
48:27
the environment, not them. Yeah.
48:30
That's so cool. I love that.
48:31
It's such a beautiful picture too.
48:35
This has been such a powerful conversation.
48:37
I have a couple more questions for you.
48:40
One of those being, how has faith played a role in your
48:44
life? Like when, when did faith really
48:46
become a big thing for you and like in terms of owning that and
48:51
how has that continued to be a focal point in your life?
48:56
So, so faith is it's that it's, it's had several different
49:00
phases, I guess, in my life. So faith I think I would in
49:05
during college. I up until that point, I had
49:08
gone to church with my family had been part of our lives, but
49:11
it was never it was something I did because my parents took me.
49:14
There wasn't some. And it was interesting in
49:17
college that that changed where I became a Christian.
49:23
And when I was, I mentioned I was a fraternity brother.
49:26
I was, I mean, my, we were living that lifestyle and every,
49:30
and it was interesting that I, there's many lessons.
49:33
I, I, I remember so distinctly from that time because I changed
49:37
a lot of my lifestyle at that point and was much more, I, I
49:40
stopped drinking. I, I, I was much more
49:44
considerate with, with, with females and those type of thing.
49:47
And, and I felt so much better about who I was at that time.
49:53
And it was so it was kind of interesting that one of the
49:55
parts I look back at that time because I, I drifted, I, I don't
49:59
go to church as very often now. And it's interesting that I look
50:03
back at that time and I have to remind myself that why, if there
50:07
wasn't something to faith that I feel so good about what I was
50:10
doing, you know, why did it feel so right?
50:14
And and so there's there's I had that aspect of it that I really
50:20
will never forget, you know, from that aspect of it, but it
50:23
it's ebbed and throat flowed through my through my life, you
50:26
know, types. And I see faith a lot of
50:30
different times, you know, where I remember once as a sunrise,
50:34
just feeling that the sun on my face and a feeling like there
50:38
was a presence there and that I really knew at that moment.
50:42
I can't deny I feel presence, you know, And so there's a
50:45
there's an aspect of a faith you can't, I can't put my finger on
50:50
and I and it's still a relationship on still forming.
50:53
I love that, Dwayne, so many great things that you've said
50:56
today. One more question I have for you
50:59
is what does it mean to be more than before?
51:02
It's a concept I love. It's a concept I live with all
51:04
the time because it's my business.
51:06
But I'm curious, what does that mean to you to be more than
51:09
before? So I, I know I love that title
51:13
about and it's interesting. I actually thought of that quite
51:15
I thought about that a little bit before we even got on.
51:18
And you know, it's, it's when I look at my life, I think that it
51:23
is. It wasn't that hard to be more
51:24
than before for for me. Because when I look at before I
51:28
look at somebody who was lost in a world of, of work and, and not
51:34
really making life the priority it ought to be, not really
51:37
treating people necessarily as well as I as I needed to.
51:41
And I so and I, I look at that person.
51:44
It's not, not hard to be more than that because I just don't
51:47
think that that person was really accomplishing what I
51:50
think was important in life. And so I think to be more than
51:53
before, I think it's to look at who you were and how you're
51:57
going to do, do whatever it takes in order to make you be
52:00
your true self, to be really redefine what is success.
52:04
Don't think of success as financial parameters or how big
52:07
your house is or what you drive. Think about in the sense of have
52:11
you supported your children? Have you have you been the best
52:14
husband you can be? Have you made a work life
52:17
balance that that really contributed to friends and
52:20
family and those type of things? I you know, I think once you,
52:23
once you look at who you are, then you could be more than
52:26
that. But if you don't examine that,
52:29
it's so easy to follow that same pattern and not be more than
52:31
before. Dwayne, thank you so much for
52:34
your story, your wisdom, your heart behind your work, and this
52:37
conversation truly has been powerful and a reminder of how
52:41
we operate personally and professionally and how that
52:44
really does reflect who we are. Who you are, who you're showing
52:47
up to as today is important. If today's episode resonates
52:51
with you, make sure that you check out Dwayne's brand new
52:54
book, Operationally Spelt. Connect with him through the
52:58
efficacy Group. Dwayne, thank you again for
53:00
being here, for adding so much value to to all of us and for
53:04
everyone else. If this episode challenged you
53:06
and encouraged you, share it with someone who needs to hear
53:08
it today. Until next time, remember to be
53:11
more, see more, and experience more than before.