Latest / The Start, Scale & Succeed Podcast / From Dissatisfied to Living the Dream with Eric Woodard (stage 1) - Ep. 392

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From Dissatisfied to Living the Dream with Eric Woodard (stage 1) - Ep. 392 · The Start, Scale & Succeed Podcast

• 0:00
  Scott Ritzheimer: Hello, hello and welcome. Welcome once again
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  to the Start scale and succeed. Podcast, the only podcast that
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  grows with you through all seven stages of your journey as a
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  founder, I'm your host, Scott Ritzheimer, and you've heard it
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  like just about every founder's story out there starts with a
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  bad job. We hear it all the time, so often that something
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  unusual has happened, I think, over the course of history, and
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  that is that we've started to think that maybe the only way,
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  or definitely the best way, out of a bad job is to start our own
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  organization. But I think that could be a huge mistake, because
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  getting out of a bad job is a bad reason to become an
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  entrepreneur. I believe that with all my heart, I believe
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  there's a much, much easier way to find fulfillment in your
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  work. And my guest today is going to be able to help us find
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  the way. I'm really excited about this. Today's guest is
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  Eric Woodard. He is the founder of win at work, where he helps
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  founders, leaders and professionals build careers and
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  businesses that actually work for their lives. He's known for
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  turning complex career and leadership challenges into
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  clear, practical steps people can take right away through
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  coaching, workshops and content, Eric helps people get unstuck,
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  build trust faster and create momentum without burnout. And
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  His work focuses on clarity, confidence and human connection,
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  especially during moments of growth, change and reinvention.
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  Eric believes success should be should feel sustainable, not
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  exhausting, and his approach blends real work experience with
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  simple frameworks that stick, and he's here with us today,
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  Eric, welcome to the show. You've coached some folks
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  through some pretty significant career transitions, and have
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  made some remarkable career choices yourself. What does real
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  job dissatisfaction actually look like, and how is that
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  different from just having a rough stretch?
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  Eric Woodard: Yeah, well, Scott, first of all, so happy to be
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  here. I just want to honor you for like, putting together this
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  podcast and serving all the people that you do. It really
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  makes a positive debt in the universe. And you're exactly
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  right about, you know, often when people are in a bad job and
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  they don't know what to do, they will one of, one of the things
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  that some will do is they'll be like, Well, I'm gonna start my
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  own thing and look for some people that's, that's a great
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  move. And unless you've got, but unless you've got that pitch,
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  it's, I wouldn't say it's necessarily an easier path. And
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  so, so to answer your question, you know, some of the options,
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  or some of the ways to make a job better, and I'm stealing
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  this from from one of my coaches, the godfather coach, a
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  guy named Steve Chandler, is the idea of agreement. So often,
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  when people are in jobs, they're just living in a world of
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  expectation without agreements. And that can be a whole big,
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  giant recipe for her.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, yeah. And there are times in any
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  career that it's a little mundane, right, that it's a
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  little challenging. How do we know if that mundane is systemic
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  or situational? How do we know if, hey, this is something that
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  is a attention to be managed in this the course of normal life,
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  or a problem to be solved?
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  Eric Woodard: Yeah, it's a great question. And look, I think that
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  happens in every arena, right there. There are seasons, even
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  as an entrepreneur, you know, there are seasons of sort of ho
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  hum boredom, and then there are seasons, seasons of sheer
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  terror, and then there are seasons of excitement and
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  growth. And the same thing happens in, you know, a w2 job.
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  I don't think that's unique to somebody, you know, doing a nine
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  to five. But one way, you know that one, one can sort of have a
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  sense of it is, you know, like, like, how's the learning, right?
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  My experience is, is that people are in jobs that that sort of,
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  you know that for sort of feeling stuck, that being in a
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  rut really boils down to, like the sort of the learning curve
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  has stopped, like challenge, you know, because when people aren't
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  learning and they're not challenged, they're often not
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  really happy. And by the way, this is not unique to jobs. This
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  is unique to, I think, any, any arena. So you know, if you're in
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  a job and you're feeling that it might the job might not be the
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  problem. It could be that, you know, you might not have been as
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  entrepreneurial within your job as you could be or want to be,
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  or it could be that you're now overqualified for the job you
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  hold, and it's time to get it's time to level up within your
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  organization or another organization. But it may not
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  necessarily be, you know, the next level. Could be
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  entrepreneur, but it might not be.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, so a lot of times when folks are
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  frustrated with their job, I call them dissatisfied
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  employees. But folks are frustrated with their job, it's
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  usually my boss, this, my pay that, you know, the compute,
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  commute, this, it's almost always some kind of external
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  factor, but I just don't think that adds up. What, what is the
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  real driver behind dissatisfaction that you found
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  in your work? And how can we diagnose it the proper way?
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  Eric Woodard: Yeah, so sometimes it, you know, I mean, I agree
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  with you, those are, like, the bad boss. It's, it's not really
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  the bad boss that's making me upset. How we're relating to
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  the, quote, bad boss, and even the fact that we're relating to
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  them as bad. And it could be that, you know, we're feeling,
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  you know, gets back to, like the Maslow stuff, right? You know,
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  we're feeling afraid. At some level, we're feeling threatened.
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  And that can be our identity, that can feel, you know, we're a
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  social tribe species. If we want to go back to all the caveman
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  wiring, right? There's somebody, you know, here's an interesting
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  thing about jobs, by the way, and with all deference to our
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  Native American friends, this, they could be an exception, but
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  the closest thing we have to a tribe in the modern day is
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  probably our work, and the boss is the closest thing we have to
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  a chief, right? And so we're sort of wired that way to
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  operate in, you know, that's just, I mean, this goes back to,
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  like, amygdala, you know, lizard brain stuff like to operate
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  within a tribe and the social interactions within and if, for
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  some reason, we feel disrespected in the tribe or
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  positions not recognized, we have wiring that basically tells
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  us that we're about to die, because 100,000 years ago he
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  might have been. And so if we can sort of glitch out of that
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  and realize, no, I'm not, I'm not threatened here, it's just
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  that there's, there's something at work that's a little
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  dysfunctional, and rather than take my ball and go home or
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  quiet, quit or sit in a corner and pout, we have these magical
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  things, Scott, these magical things. They're called requests.
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  We can make mouth words. We can go to people and we can say,
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  Hello, let's co create an agreement around what's
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  happening here to make it gooder for everybody. And often, what
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  happens is they say yes, and if and when they don't, that's when
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  we can get really curious and replace judgment with curiosity,
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  because my boss is a jerk. Is really a form of judgment.
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  Whereas if we can replace that with I wonder what's going on
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  for my boss, miracles can unfold.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, yeah, I love that, because there's so
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  much that we can do even without changing the job, right? There's
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  so much that we have control over, and that a bad job isn't
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  necessarily a bad job I love it's the way that we relate to
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  it that's really profound. Now, there are some bad jobs and
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  there are some bad bosses. There are some circumstances, maybe
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  even not a bad job or a bad boss, but just something that
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  we're out of alignment with ourselves. How do you help folks
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  get to the bottom of what a dream job would really look
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  like? What's the right work for them?
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  Eric Woodard: Yeah, well, I mean, the first question is, if
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  and when we feel an upset, right? If and when we are angry
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  about our job or dissatisfied or whatever, the first question to
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  ask is, you know, where are we? Where's that coming from? Are
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  we? You know, are we? Are we reaching that conclusion on a
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  Friday afternoon when we're tired and we haven't eaten and
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  we haven't petted a dog in a while, you know, like, like, if
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  we're like, already triggered, that might not be the best time
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  to make this analysis. But let's say, for argument's sake, that
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  we're, you know, we're sitting on a mountain in Tibet and we're
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  meditated and we're eating and we petted a dog, and we're
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  coming from a place of neutrality, right? This isn't
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  just a panic, hangry sort of moment, and we're like, kind of
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  neutral, and we're like, yeah, I don't want to do this anymore. I
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  don't want to, you know, deal with this anymore. Then that's a
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  place where we can, we can be like, okay, yeah, this isn't the
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  job for me. And then what, oftentimes, what I find is
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  people will do is they'll go into trying to explain it,
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  right? They'll start judging themselves. Well, you know,
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  they'll start shooting themselves right, and and
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  they'll be like, well, I should, I should, I should, I should.
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  And I'm like, yeah, if and when you're done, you don't have to
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  explain it to anybody, including your employer, right? If they're
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  like, why are you leaving? Because I want to, but why?
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  Because I want to, right? That's perfect. I mean, this is what I
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  like to call my yay capitalism speech, there are things about
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  capitalism that one could, you know, arguably debate the pros
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  and cons. And one of the maybe good things is, is free movement
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  of labor. They can often fire you at will. And guess what? You
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  can quit at will, and you can change jobs at will. Yay
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  capitalism. This is the way it works, for better or worse. So
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  yeah, we don't have to fret about it too much. We can just
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  decide and take action and come from a place of efficacy and
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  agency.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah. And so once somebody has taken that
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  degree of agency, they've realized, hey, maybe this isn't
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  the best place for me. This isn't what I want to do. There's
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  this big looming question there. There's like, what do I want to
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  do? And so how do you how do you help folks answer that question?
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  Eric Woodard: Yeah, Scott, do you know the Japanese idea of
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  ikigai? I bet you do. You know what I mean by ikigai? Have you
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  heard that? Okay, so
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  Scott Ritzheimer: I heard it from a car show. So yeah. Keep
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  going.
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  Eric Woodard: that, for that, for your listeners who don't
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  know, it's basically Venn diagram, four circles. The
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  circles are, what do I want to do? What am I good at? What can
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  I get paid for? And what does the world need? And what I find
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  a lot is people focus on what I want to do. They make focus next
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  on what can I get paid for. Then they'll focus on what I what am
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  I good at? And finally, at the end, they'll focus. On, what the
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  world, what does the world need? And my invitation to anybody
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  who's trying to figure out their career stuff is to flip that,
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Wow,
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  Eric Woodard: ask the question, what? What's needed out there?
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  And my friends, the world is in need right now. I mean, just
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  turn on the news. The world is in need. Like, only everywhere
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  there's plenty of need out there. So, so you know, if you
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  can build a better mousetrap, people are going to beat a path
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  to your door, and that that has never been more true today,
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  whereas if you're out there, just really focused on me, me,
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  me, me, me. Let me tell you how I can be impressive. Let me tell
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  you about my skills and experience. They don't care.
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  They don't care because they're only thinking about one thing
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  employers. That is, they're thinking about themselves. So
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  let's focus on them. That's how we can create miracles in our
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  career.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, it's, it's really cool, because it
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  gets into what a lot of entrepreneurs deal with, is, how
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  do they find a market, right? And how do they present what
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  they offer to the market? And so there's, there's so many
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  parallels there. For for our audiences, you have to it's not
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  about you. And so this is a total soapbox space for me, but
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  it's like, it's why jumping into being an entrepreneur because of
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  a bad job thing sets you up for failures, because you're doing
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  it all for yourself and about yourself, and that's not going
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  to work any better there than it does in your current job, which
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  is a real problem. So I'm going to set you up a little bit. We
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  didn't talk about this ahead of time, but this is a something
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  that's really important. I think we're highly aligned on it. But
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  one of the things that I've noticed is you've kind of
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  oscillated between the word job and the word work, and you've
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  done it probably in the same way that I would just quick
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  definition. What's the difference between a job and
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  work?
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  Eric Woodard: Yeah, well, they're a little bit synonymous,
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  I guess that. Thanks for pointing out. I guess the way
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  I'm using it as a job is like a w2 right? Like it's, it's maybe
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  a container for work, or one type of container where we do
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  work, right? We We trade our time for money, we trade our
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  expertise for money, and we get a salary. And it's, there's a
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  job description, there are hours, there's hierarchy around
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  it. It's a dub, you know, in the US what taxes is tax season,
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  right? It's what we would call we get a w2 right? It's a salary
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  position. Whereas, you know, work, you know, we could be
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  working in our yard, we could be working as an entrepreneur. We
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  could be working, you know, cleaning, you know, making
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  dinner. I think work is probably, and those would be
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  other kinds of containers for, for the idea of work. And, you
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  know, I'm blanking on, on, on his name, but the guy who wrote
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  The War of Art has written a lot about about this, Right?
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Steve Pressfield,
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  Eric Woodard: Panfield, yes, yes, yes. Like, yeah.
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  Pressfield, he's written a lot about the idea of, you know,
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  what's a professional? And a lot of times, you know, we can be a
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  professional in a lot of ways. That doesn't relate to being
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  that's the other word we could throw in here, job, work,
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  professional. You know, those are three ideas that can
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  sometimes happen in the same time, in the same place, and not
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  necessarily great question,
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah. yeah I love that. I love that. So I
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  have this question, Eric that I ask all my guests. I'm very
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  interested to see what you'd have to say. But the question is
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  this, what is the biggest secret that you wish wasn't a secret at
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  all? What's that one thing you wish every dissatisfied employee
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  out there. Listening new today.
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  Eric Woodard: It's great. It's such a great question, and we've
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  touched on a little bit. But there is no greater opportunity
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  in the world to replace self centered judgment with them
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  centered curiosity, right? If we can, if we can make it about
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  them and not judge them, but be curious about them, I mean,
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  miracles will unfold in our work, in life every time.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, I love that. I love that them centered.
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  Curiosity is so good. Eric, there's some folks listening who
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  is just the right message, right time. You're exactly what they
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  need at this stage in their career. They'd love some help
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  just working their way through some of the complexity here.
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  Where can they find out more about the work that you do.
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  Where can they connect with you?
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  Eric Woodard: Thanks so much, Scott. So if you want to find
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  out more, go to win@work.io that's win@work.io I run a free
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  workshop, like every week. It's free for anybody, and just come
• 14:14
  and you can learn a lot more about how to get hired fast.
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  We'd love to have you there.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Fantastic, fantastic win@work.io we'll put
• 14:17
  that in the show notes for everyone. You don't have to go
• 14:23
  find it, just tap or click there. And yeah, Eric,
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  fantastic. I loved this conversation. It was exactly
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  what I needed today. It was a lot of fun. Thanks for being on
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  we really appreciate having you here. And for those of you
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  watching and listening, your time and attention mean the
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  world to us. Hope you got as much out of this conversation,
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  as I know I did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take
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  care.