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The Foundation - Supporting Young Financial Planners Through Community · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry, so check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Today's guest is Sean O'Brien from WHRLAN.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sean is based in the Dorset and Hampshire area, and he has set up a group called the Foundation to help support financial planners and those within the profession that tend to be younger and aren't communicating or connecting with other financial planners or those within the profession within his local area.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: And today he talks about why he set up the foundation based on his own career experience.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: He talked a little bit about his journey itself.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about mental health, well-being, and the power of community and how that can only enhance and help anybody within the profession get ahead quicker and happier.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoy it.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Sean, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: How are you, sir?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, very well.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, glad to be here.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me, Sam.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: No problem.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for coming on.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Very, very quick, wasn't it?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, you phoned me up last week.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was sat in my Tesla, taking it out for a spin.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I hear, yeah.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: The luxuries of a Tesla.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, so it's um we've been connected on LinkedIn, the the the obviously the the infamous social media where everybody knows everybody but knows little of each other for quite a while, haven't we?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: So uh good to finally speak over the last couple of weeks.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And Sean, you you've you called me up to talk to me specifically about a new project that you were involved in called the Foundation.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's been running for a little bit of time now.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and um you've been part of the setup of that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're the secretary there, amongst some other founders.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: But the idea is that um the foundation is has been set up to be able to support and help the next generation of financial planners local to you in Dorset, Dorset in the Hampshire way, is that right?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, Dorset and Hampshire, yeah, correct.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: So um, as mentioned, for probably want of a better title, I am the secretary of the of the group.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so that the foundation, we we have a committee, uh formal committee, um, as you would imagine.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's uh as you mentioned, in the simplest form, it's targeted to be a non-profit networking for younger and newer advisors into the sector.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: So the the you can probably spot the diplomatic caveat there saying younger and less experienced.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um previously, we were the under 35s, but um yeah, I'm I'm fast approaching 35.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that wasn't the reason why we changed it, but it was we didn't want to exclude anybody.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we have new newer members that are over 35 that are testament to that as well.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: But predominantly that support to that type of demographic.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the absolutely wise thing to do there is change the change the age because only this year I've helped around five guys and girls that have come from other professions.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: So what you're seeing is a lot of new advisors coming in that are like second careerists.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, yeah.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I I've um over the years, whether it's in a professional capacity or people that I know personally outside of uh you know, out of work, that there are a lot of skill sets that can lend themselves to the advice sector.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's not an easy job, but there are many skill sets, whether it's um from time management, you know, personal management, managing uh and delegating, or you know, down to for want of a better term, you know, sales and and and pitches.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: So uh I think we mentioned what you mentioned the word insular previously.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it can be an industry that seems quite difficult to break into, and perhaps it is, if you don't have the right support and the right people behind you.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, changing that to a little bit more of a wider demographic to encompass those is something that we've actively done, and you know, but for that reason that you mentioned there, but also not to exclude anyway, including myself when I hit 35 next year.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh yeah, definitely, definitely wise.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's just elaborate a little bit, Sean, around what the foundation is um and what you've done so far.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: So just give us a you know an overview of what the foundation is and you know who it's for.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: So probably the easiest way to explain this is to go back.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've been with the the foundation for a number of years now, and I I jumped on the bandwagon on the, I believe, the second or the third event, and and it's really progressed very organically.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: So originally it was designed to be a bit of a get-together for, as I mentioned, we'll keep using the word younger, but for for not the truest term, but a bit of a get-together for younger individuals in the sector, which I believe didn't really exist, whether in a um a formal capacity or in a less formal capacity either.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: And from there, it's progressed, as I say, snowboard into something really positive.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And like I mentioned, it's got to a point where we do have a committee, uh, we have votes, we have meetings and minutes and agendas, etc.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that that's giving the group some structure.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: But fundamentally, that original very, very informal get-together was aimed at that audience where we're very aware in the industry that over the last two or three decades it's been massively saturated by an older generation, and that that's not in any derogatory sense to anybody that's older in the industry, it's just a natural progression of how it's gone.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And a big impact of that is probably in the years just around RDR when that came in, really.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of people were excluded from the sector, it was a lot more difficult to get into.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And where where we're at now is the average age of a financial advisor in the UK is 55.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So naturally, if you're in your 20s or even even younger, you know, we we've had people within the foundation younger than that, it's easy to feel alone, I think is is uh a really, really good way to describe it when you're surrounded by nobody that's in the same position as you.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that and that can be scary, whether it's a new job to you or not, uh, or you know, a new sector to you or not.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that support organically came from that group, and we developed that to not only have that peer group, but also develop um technical skills and software and and and knowledge, all with the ethos of none of us, whether it's the organizers or the committee helping organize, none of us are there for any personal gain or any personal profit.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and it really is there a group to help people in the local area and and support the industry.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we're all fortunate that we share the same passion around the industry, and um that that that's really relevant when we get together.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: And uh hopefully you know, new members that are that listen to this will see that when they do come along.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so how long have you been a financial planner for?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so I have been, well, it's a good question.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I've been in the advice sectors for around about 10 years.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um originally I was very um restricted in advising rent protection protection only, and that developed into pensions and investments.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm uh very, very proud of using the word holistic every chance I can get now in my financial planning description.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: So uh been in the um the more conventional holistic financial planning space for probably about about five or six years now, specializing in in more pensions investments.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great stuff.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So you started in a protection role, did you?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, get going back before that, I was uh I was working in a general insurance role, um, very heavily sales-based, uh, as a lot of those roles can be.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: So general insurance, home insurance, car insurance, and there's incredible skills you you learn from from that type of um industry.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And it is it's uh which can be hard graft, but also quite rewarding, and then there's there's great professions in that sector, and there's really clear paths to to progression, which which is which is great.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, I was very, very fortunate.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: Got asked by someone I used to work with to help them out with a with a new company, um, going into the advice sector, and uh yeah, the rest is history worked out really well, and it's been a natural progression ever since.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think the insurance, I think working within insurance, where there is tends to be quite target driven, quite sales focused, you know, that ability to kind of build that quick rapport with a client.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, it's very price-heavy, isn't it?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people tend to want a good deal or they'll go elsewhere.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's why compare the market and all that sort of stuff came out.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: But it's a great training ground, isn't it?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose, for learning about that sort of to start to get a good understanding of needs-based selling.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Trying to sort of understand what the client's worries, fears, concerns might be if their car was to break down or if they were stuck in another country with their car, or if someone was to break into their home and cause them trauma, or they got support in place to be able to cover them for that or any legal costs, etc.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I found that I worked for Cornhill Insurance for like three years on the out on the outbound side, selling car and home insurance and traveling.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really, really good, really good ground and a really good training um and good experience, really, to get stuck into.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you transitioned from that into protection based with this firm then, did you?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: And uh as you mentioned, there a lot of transferable skills and that uh you know, you using um some cliche terminology here, but matching needs really, and and that that that's a really good basis.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: And as you mentioned, that rapport and and also coming from um a simpler background of you know GR, you you still have that heavy compliance aspect, and and and that runs right the way through to whatever um in industry you're in, whether it's through to mortgages or investments, equity release, pensions, insurance, you know, bit business protection.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh those real basics are a great foreground.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: And if you if you can do those well, there's a lot of people that can't.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if you if you can do that well, the uh I won't say the rest of it's easy because the technical knowledge is not easy as we know, but it's uh it can fall into place.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: You you you can um you can really use that to prop up the rest of your skills.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing what you know now, because obviously you will you you know you've been working as a financial planner for quite a few years, you're now at WH Ireland, you know, uh delivering holistic financial planning to high net worth clients.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed, yes.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: So knowing what you know now, looking back, do you think moving, you know, if you were to turn around to somebody who's a bit younger, and they were saying to you, Sean, I'm really want to become a financial planner, would you give advice to them and say, look, why don't you go and cut your teeth in the protection world first?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I I would say that the huge benefit, particularly uh for the the generation we find ourselves in now, is um that the most common route, which I'm sure from from your profession, you you'll I'm sure you'll concur, is through an admin-based role and learning the probably the more technical side of things.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's fantastic.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of professionals that come into the the Secretary General Advisors have a real good knowledge there.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: What I've found that it is lacking there is the communication skills, is the the ability to you know basics build rapport, probing, fact-finding, those.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: And where we find ourselves is where do you learn that?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's not enough advisors to sit down and teach you that.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're with a firm that can do that, then that's rare, you know.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a really, really strong attribute to that firm if you can do that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that that worked for me.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, however, whether it works for everybody, probably not.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's um it's it's great to say, like, like you say, cut your teeth.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so some real examples, you know, I've I've had younger administration roles, um, individuals that I've worked with, and and it's even been to the point where I think that the generation, I'm probably borderline on that younger generation.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'd say, well, we're very much uh burdened with texts and WhatsApp and Instagram and social media, and how often do you actually pick up the phone to speak to somebody and how often do you have a conversation?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, me being borderline on that, there's there's the the generation kind of 10, 15 younger than me and upwards, where they almost never use a telephone.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I I've physically had to train people how to pick up a telephone, and and it's been absolutely daunting for them.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, it's where else you learn that than jumping in the deep end to do it.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's an invaluable experience, and yeah, you know, you you you could probably say that could be learned in many different sectors, but uh I say I'm very fortunate in in the in the roles that I've had that were a great foreground when I was you know 18, 19 to build from there.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And naturally, as you know, for from uh your outbound environment that you had there, you you get some really you know top um professionals that can impart a lot of wisdom to you and and um from a managerial sense and then an individual in a sales sense, etc.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the most successful financial planners that I've ever spoken to, and I'm talking about some of the older generation here, are from a sales background when the role of itself of a financial advisor was very sales focused, pre-RDI.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: These were these were ex-sales people.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: They they were selling things, you know, and exactly.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that was their background.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they knew how to build that rapport, they knew how to pick that telephone up, they knew how to do needs-based selling, they were used to knocking on doors literally to go and sell life insurance or some sort of savings pension product.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think it's a skill set that definitely is lacking in the next generation of financial planners that come through.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think companies need to be very careful about how they develop and grow their teams purely through this administrative route.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: If there isn't clearly a defined bit uh training program around the softer skills, then you're just gonna have a lot of people qualified with absolutely no people skills.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's massively important that people go off and do some tough jobs, you know.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like dare I say it, like hypothetically, knock on doors, you know, learn how to communicate with people, customer service roles.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think people kind of think, well, I'm gonna go straight out of university and jump straight into a financial planning provision position.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be done, but why not go off and get some skills like I don't know, recruitment, for example, is a great, a great one.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you have to kind of be picking up the telephone, speaking to people, yeah, constantly looking to understand the needs of a company where you can sell the benefits of a candidate in and why they need to use your services, just to kind of give you a bit of a reality check that not every piece of business lands on your lap.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: And you you can end up being very entitled by being around successful advisors.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um you know, as I mentioned to you before, that they they may have built their book up over 30 years.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that can seem quite easy, you know.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: When when you're established, it can look easy, you know, but like a uh the old, I'll use that old cliche of you know, a duck um looking nice and calm above, but you know, you're not seeing that work that's been put in to get there.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: So you can almost through no fault of your own as you as a younger individual, almost feel a little bit entitled to say, yeah, you know, I'm I'm in this sector, where's where's my book of a hundred million that I'm here to manage?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, so uh yeah.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: People think Sean and they say, Sam, Sam, I'm yeah, I'm looking to become a financial planner.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm looking for is a job where I can kind of go in there and hopefully they've got a book of clients that I can start to work with.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm looking for about a 50k basic.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're just like, yeah, I'm just pulling those out of my ass for you.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they they are out there.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they are, but they're few and far between.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: They are few and far between.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if someone's got two or three years worth of of of financial planning experience, you know, it tends to go to those guys.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, and uh so where that where that loses is uh what 20, 30 years ago, I think probably more 30 years ago, that the stats are more accurate.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: There was roughly 300,000 advisors in the UK, you know, and that that would be encompassing banks, independent advisors, tied advisors, etc.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: And now, well, the last time we checked, there was just under 35,000, and they're they're not coming into the industry at the same rate that they're leaving the industry.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I I was at an educated guess, I'd probably say mid 30,000s.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So when you look at that, and there's more wealth in the UK, and you think, well, that should be an easy fix.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: But the the problem is how do you break into that uh that that industry because of and rightly so that the the great thing as we mentioned is I'm sure there's people that'll listen to this, and as you mentioned, the the the older mentality of some advisors from that um more salesy background 30 years ago.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: I I've heard dozens and dozens of times of that referred to as the good old days.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I I won't I won't read into what that means, but um, you know, right rightly so.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think the industry is far more heavily regulated now, and that's reflected in the qualifications and the criteria that you need to meet.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: And what that's mean is is what that means is it's pushed a lot of people out of the industry.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so similar to you know recent changes in DB schemes, you know, just having that increased um tightened rulings and legislation and necessary qualifications, it pushes a lot of people out of the industry.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it's great to protect the client, but um it proposes a very difficult option if you want to break into that because you need the ability to communicate well with clients, you need the ability to build up um a lot of um a lot of trust with clients, and they need to know that you're gonna be able to do a good job basically.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then coupled with that, you you need a huge knowledge of technical um tech technical qualifications as well, you know, whether that's just what you've got on paper from your diploma or whatever whatever route you you come into, but also the the things that you you don't have to know, but you you really need to.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: So should I go down the administrative to power planner route and then become a financial planner and then at that point learn my soft skills on the job?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or should I dive straight into financial planning because I've got really great soft skills and I've worked in sales or or or account management or consultancy for 10 years and I'll learn the technical stuff on on the job.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of what comes first, isn't it?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's it the the route of admin power planner financial planner does lend itself to the younger advice, a younger person because it's kind of like uh it's a natural progressive route up.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time you've kind of, I don't know, matured a bit, not to say that somebody 21 straight out of uni isn't mature, but I remember what I was like at 21, I was not the same as I am now.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think you know, if you've got say two or three years of working within an admin to power planner type position, and then you step into a financial planner role around 26, 27, I think that's quite a nice route.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if you look at other professions such as legal and accountancy, that's that's exactly what they do.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that the financial planning planning profession has never had a route, is it?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's we're we're we're finding our way with it at the moment.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: So so that that's where we find ourselves, and that's where the foundation really has provided that support for um individuals if you're very, very early into the sector or not.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you look at the alternatives to that, it's very much either a um, you know, you've got to pay a lot of money to be in something that's that's labelled young and has the words financial in it, you know, you have to uh fork out either a hefty monthly membership or an annual membership.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, um uh I'll use a polarizing um couple of words here, but you know, SJP and Quilter have um set up you know their their version of what what they refer to as the schools, and really, you know, like I said, it is polarizing.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure people have their views on you know whether it's right or wrong, but they're really the only firms that are bringing bringing the opportunity for people to come into the sector.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what that propose what what that proposes is a potential monopoly, you know.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: So they're they're bringing in they're they're bringing people that have had the foresight to see, okay, well, we need to bring in younger advisors and then also buying up, you know, retiring firms.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's you know, like I said, that it's it's not gonna be far from monopoly in 10 years.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: So there has to be a bit of publication around how to get people into the sector, there has to be a bit of publication of Okay, well, who do you speak to if you're struggling in the sector?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: And there has to be that publication of, okay, well, who else do you know in the sector?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, what's your experience been?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um like I said, having having a great diverse group that I'm a member of here and that I'm I'm proud to be able to rely on, whether it's our WhatsApp group or you know, physical meetings or Zoom meetings, it's it's great just to have a sense check and say, oh, okay, yeah, great that there is someone else in that sort of position.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about the finance, let's talk about the uh the foundation then, okay?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because you've obviously gone through your career.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Did you find that do you think that you would have progressed a bit quicker in your career or maybe not um procrastinated or dwelled upon certain situations as long if there was something like the foundation where you could have gone in and banked some of your thoughts, feelings, fears, ideas around?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely, yeah.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: So we have some some examples of that are just having your ear close to the ground.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: So whether that's opportunities, um, or that's not really what it's set up for, is it's not set up you know for work opportunities, but that that naturally comes from there.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: But just as an example, um, secondly, we we have um a head of technical coordination, so we have somebody there that is uh very, very experienced in um pretty much all the qualifications the CII has to offer.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: So if you if you need someone to say, okay, well, you know, that I'm finding this really hard.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: You you might have uh a manager at work that's that's also experienced, but it's it's difficult to say, okay, I'm I'm struggling here.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get through RO2?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or you know, what what's this alternative route?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: This this doesn't quite fit the way I learn.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um okay, well, there's this firm that can offer some alternatives, this is what I've used.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, let me put you in touch with um, you know, XYZ over here, he had a similar experience.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, great.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: That that that works for me.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for that technique, thanks, thanks for that offering.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, it that there's there's been times that um whether it's just me as an individual where where I do try to get everything done myself and maybe struggle to ask for help and and uh maybe it's an element of that as well, but definitely I I didn't have anybody I knew in that sector when I was when I was coming through um bar, you know, very, very successful individuals, you know, in the city and um people that didn't really have the time to talk to me about um you know techniques for for getting through R06 and things like that, you know.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Did you often think when you were in those situations where you were surrounded by people that were quite successful, where perhaps they didn't have a great deal of time to help support you in your early stage of your career, did you ever get to a stage where you thought, am I in the right job here?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, um am I as good as these guys?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Did you have that feeling of imposter syndrome at all?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, in ways for sure.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh something I'm still susceptible to, imposter syndrome.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it's um it, I think it's one of the one of the one of the great things that comes out from I guess it that does come under mental health, you know, and and it's one of those great things that comes out where we're all able to talk a little bit more about these types of things.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: So um, yeah, it's then and now I do suffer from that.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh like I said, you know, having having that slightly younger face sometimes, you're sitting in front of a new client you don't know that has you know a 10 million pound portfolio, if you're lucky enough, you know, as an example to get in front of someone like that, and you know, they they've had a successful career in FTSE 100 companies, and you think, well, what are they gonna think of me?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and and and once you talk for five minutes and you you realize you you know you know what you're talking about, you've got you've you've done you've done that hard life over the years, you you you're absolutely solid in your your advice, and and and that's what matters.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden everything goes out the window.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, in the professional sense, certainly, I still get that.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just because I think of that um conventional having that uh that demographic that does exist in the advice sector.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but but more personally, away from maybe you know clients and and just the obvious professional side, yeah.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: Imposter syndrome is definitely something I get whether it's work or or not.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And um I've uh yeah, I've I've been lucky where I do have individuals I've worked with over the years and and uh have got fantastic careers now in you know top top companies in the UK and they've given me great advice that sticks with me, you know, and just being able to celebrate your success is is a huge part of that, and I think um in the right way, you know, you don't want to be too cocky, but but but having having that ability just to you know in in this job, I was talking to someone recently where you know I think there's very few industries where we have the pressure of that ongoing studying, that CPD, that technical knowledge, that um keeping up with our client, but getting new business, and then having family issues, you know, or you know, or you know, whether it's relationships or friends or a global pandemic, and there doesn't seem much time to stop and think, okay, you know, five years ago, me five years ago would have been blown away where I am five, five, you know, five years down the line.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really difficult in this job to stop sometimes, I think, and and get that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, you know, like I said, I've I've I'm fortunate enough to have people I'm in contact with from uh lots of different occupations that can impart that wisdom on me, shall we say.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's really important, I think.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a great sort of example, I guess, of how the foundation works, John.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact that you're in there and you're able to express honestly about what you've experienced over five years, what you still go through now, and I think we all go through this imposter syndrome anyway, in all walks of life, and we can sometimes make ourselves feel a bit less than, you know, especially with things like social media, and we log in and we see people absolutely kicking ass on social media, so they must be kicking ass in life, and you could feel absolutely great and then go on social and all of a sudden feel terrible.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we start to compare and despair, don't we?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And all these types of things.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think having a support network where people can be open and honest and talk about how they're feeling and what they're worried about and what their concerns are, and also other people sharing it from an honest perspective of their journey and what they've gone through allows people to uh to kind of lower their expectations really of what they should be in the eyes of what they think others are thinking of them.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's hugely important to your well-being.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also just and again, important to others within the profession that look, we all start somewhere, we don't know it all.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Every day is a learning day, and you'll continue to learn as you go through.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I promise you, over the next couple of years, you'll look back and go, wow, I picked up a huge amount of knowledge.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And is that something that you guys offer?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is that support and camaraderie and community?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: 100%, yeah.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh every single time I've gone to one of our events.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I it's quite easy to talk about it now and say, you know, look, this is great, I really enjoy it.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: But uh I I don't look first event, uh knew no one there turning up.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's that typical, oh my gosh, I've got to go into a room full of people and talk to them, you know.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that that not for everybody, but I'd say for a lot of us that's quite daunting, you know.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: So even that in itself, and and even now, you know, uh or not now because we're on Zoom and then until the next month or so, but um even even recent events after I've been with the group for a few years, I sometimes I think, oh gosh, I've had a super, super busy 10-hour day today.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: I've driven back from you know London to Dorset, or I've been up and down uh with several meetings today.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think, gosh, I don't know if I can muster up the energy for this.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: And every single time, with without fail, every single time I come out and I think, gosh, I'm so glad I I just went through and went to that event because I feel great about speaking to somebody else who you know what didn't have any meetings this week and and they wish they had some, you know, had a busy day, or someone else that had 10 times a busier week than I did, and uh, you know, and then you were or or if just having a bit of a laugh with somebody else, you know, and which can be difficult in itself sometimes to find the time to do so.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, so if you labor it up as a financial event, great, you know, they could you can get it in your diary a bit easier sometimes, but yeah, without fail, every single time I come away either thinking, great, I'm I'm so glad I went to that event, or I'm so glad I logged on because I've learned something, or I feel better about what I've done, or I feel more confident in myself, or you know, just the the act of going going through that emotion and um going through with it is just you know giving a positive end to the day.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a massive fan of community, like meeting up with people, especially, you know, any kind of sort of area where you might be struggling in life is trying to connect with a community of people that are feeling the same way.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: And pretty much for that reason you just said there, because it gives you perspective.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when you rock up to a meeting and you're not feeling like it, nine times out of ten, I always come out feeling a million times better.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's that kind of commitment also to a group.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you might not be feeling great that day, therefore go listen, then you might gain something, or you might feel brilliant that day.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: You go in and hopefully you can share something that might inspire somebody else who's not having a fantastic day.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: But more often than not, even when you think you're having a brilliant day, you go in there and you're like, wow, I'm still learning.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm still learning from other people.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: So it just always gives you that perspective.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, and it's it's huge, it's hugely important.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: It also helps you keep the ego in check, I think.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's um it keeps you grounded, um, it keeps you helpful and keeps you grateful, doesn't it?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: And uh yeah, I think I think perspective is huge.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like as you mentioned, there's a really important word for when you're a busy professional and uh having that physical interaction or you know, or or virtual interaction, because like like you said, scrolling through social media, um, yeah, I'm an absolute addict for Instagram and things like that.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to I have to tell myself limit myself, you know, and and it's quite as positive, isn't it?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's great for you know several things, but for everything it's great for, yeah.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that though, because I don't think you're the only one that you know has an addiction to social media, yeah.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, when it becomes such second nature to you know, people who are like 20 years old now, for example, right, coming into the profession.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's they've only ever known social media, yeah, yeah.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm I'm sure addiction is a bit of a strong word for I don't think so.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it is a strong word for someone.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, maybe maybe it's not for some, no, but it's um, yeah, I think it's that it can't it comes down to just just a uh a release mentally.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: So um the the all-encompassing word addiction, yeah, you know, so whether it's um just just something that takes your mind up what you're doing briefly, you know, maybe a super, super heavy Zoom, and then you know, then you you write up your notes from your Zoom and you think, gosh, I just I just need a whether that's grabbing a cup of coffee, or you know, I'm sure there's people out there that um maybe even worse, have a have a cigarette, or you know, um, or or you know, someone that might might just have a have a quick scroll through for Instagram.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, my my my go-to is probably coffee there.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: I could probably cut down on coffee.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's my uh my quick, I'll have a quick quick breather, quick cup of coffee in there.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's it's that mental say again.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: So coffee's the devil for me.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I um I don't drink too much caffeine, but if I start on it, then I just want it all the time, and it becomes like a kind of terrible, dependent habit that I get stuck into before I know it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh I'm drinking coffee again.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's horrible.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh gosh.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I went I went roughly a year without drinking coffee about three or four years ago, and um felt great and fell back into the trap.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, um yeah, feeling that, but it's just it's just that that's small release, isn't it?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes, and I think unfortunately for that release is social media gives you a bit of a fake reality.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: So um I suppose again if you can put it into perspective and see what it is, and it's not real, it's not reality.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: It can be quite it can be quite a beneficial thing.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then obviously understand as well that it can also have a negative effect on your mood, you know.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Can do.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Did um so let's say, for example, a couple of younger guys now and girls within the financial planning profession in Dorset in Hampshire were interested in learning more about the foundation.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: What could they what could they do, Sean?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the um the the quickest route is we've got a LinkedIn page, which is great.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we are we've just got some funding uh from a local firm who's been really supportive of our cause, um, as I because we are a completely non-profit that you'd have to pay to turn up or anything of that nature.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: So we're just launching our website, um, which is uh in the works.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: It would have been great if it was uh ready to go right now.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: But um we'll we I'm sure by the time maybe this goes out, you you can kindly add the website into the description there.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: So either LinkedIn or the website, um, or contact me directly.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm as I say, I'm visible on LinkedIn, and um we we can add you in and give you some information.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, it's um we we we've got a discussion uh on on LinkedIn, which is handy.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes it's just you know, oh gosh, I've got this question.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: So what we've found is uh predominantly the group is focused on Dorset and Hampshire, but um, you know, over the last year we've I think we've all found ourselves with with the the the wonders of uh of Zoom and other video-based communications that's naturally expanded.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've had people join from uh you know up and down the country just uh because that there's that that there's that less restriction, less of a restriction.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we we may continue that, but um, it'd be it'd be great if it's a model that we could um have other people you know inquire into and set up their own groups over the the country.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: We have some unofficial support from the CII and like I said, um local companies, whether it's investment companies or local firms, and and that and that brings uh it's um a good reflection of again some some positive firms out there that want to want to do uh positive things without any particular financial kickback, which is really difficult to see in this space sometimes.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's lovely to see that.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um just before we wrap this up, just giving an overview of what someone can expect from being a member of the foundation.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: Then you mentioned, you know, it's you you predominantly like to do things on a face-to-face basis.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So what goes what goes down at these meetings?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: What should they expect and how often are they?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I the first thing I'd say is um if anybody wants to get involved, there's no commitment.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: So there's no there's no fees, you don't have to be a member in tying yourself up, you know, if you if you want to come once, then great.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: But the format, as I say, pre-pandemic, the format has been um uh normally a very, very nice location, uh, whether it be a hotel or or or somewhere suitable.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we we we generally have that in person and we we switch between Dorset and Hampshire to accommodate uh the overlapping area that that that finds itself being.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so normally, like I said, that turning up, and if you don't know anyone there, it is just seeing some friendly faces and shaking some hands.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, well, I don't know if we'd like to shake hands yet, but verbally shaking hands, shall we say, um, and and uh just a bit of uh a networking, if you if you if you will, um a bit of a meet and greet, a bit a bit of a speaking to people in your sector.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can talk about work, you can talk about yourself, you can talk about anything you want, and it's a really, really friendly, welcoming atmosphere.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the the events themselves normally will have an element of a technical side to it, which is great.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that could be from a fundhouse, that can be from a DFM.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh as you mentioned, I work for a large DFM, WH Islands, uh just for example, um, it could be it could be a local solicitors or law firm, that type of thing.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: And there'll be a tech tech technical element to it, which is great.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got something tangible that you can definitely take away.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: However, what I think I think in the in this sector we get a lot of that.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: So as worthwhile as that is, we do try to generate some softer skills as well.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, as I mentioned, time management has been one that we've talked about before.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: A really, really useful event that's uh stuck in a lot of people's minds is tips from a successful individual in the investment sector, talking about being a younger, younger individual and um progressing your career, whether it's interview tips, whether it's um asking the right questions to progress your career, that that type of thing.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, who doesn't take something away from something like that?
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: So that that double edge works really, really well.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh some sometimes naturally it's a little bit more laden with the technical, sometimes it's a little bit more the softer facts, but either way, you'll you'll definitely come away with something that you can uh you can either write down, you know, for your own development or you know, just keep in the back of your mind.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um not normally um it's uh food and and a degree of drink is is is catered for as well, which is obviously a little limited, but um not normally, you know, within the strict rules that we find ourselves in these days.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, but but as I say, it's that networking base, uh so we have limitations on on that.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, finally, normally at that point, everyone's at ease, every everyone's you know, read the room for an hour or so, everyone, everyone's had uh the information they need to take away, and it's a bit of a breakout from there.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's um normally of an evening, which I should have mentioned.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's uh normally the third Thursday.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, uh people get to meet some new friends and and put a bit of a community within the local area of people in the same position as them.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: This this is exactly it, yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: So uh as I mentioned, obviously being part of the committee there, we we've got a strong group, you know, whether it's uh via WhatsApp or we have regular catch-ups and Zoom, and and uh yeah, I I guess a really good example of that is um we we got together informally in in the first lockdown, and it was uh okay, wow, this just happened.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_02: What are you guys doing?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and it's that cross-company, uh, that there's there's no barriers there.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be, you know, whether if you're a one-man band, you don't have to be ashamed to say, okay, look, you know, it would be really cool to know how you guys are hope coping technically or you know, mentally, or you know, or or with workload, that type of thing.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just a real life example of how that worked.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: No one's got any, there's there's no famine mentality of thinking, you know, I'm not gonna help you because you're a rival company, or I'm not gonna help you because you know you you work in a similar postcode to me.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't exist, it's it's just that synergy.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we we we probably lit draw draw the line, anything to do with clients um physically, but uh, you know, generally speaking, quite generic.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I like it.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think the more of these things that are popping up around the country and the more support that's being given, it gives people the confidence that they're going into the role and being like, oh my God, what have I got into?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: What am I going to be doing?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Also, there's a lot of smaller companies out there where perhaps someone young is going into a business where the average age within that business might be around 50 years old.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not unusual for someone to be in their 20s as an administrator surrounded by a lot of older gentlemen as well, like you know, for example, you know, going into that environment, you know, this type of group where it's a bit younger, people going through the similar sorts of experiences, it's just only going to be beneficial to someone's mental health, well-being and their career development.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: So the more we see this, the you know, the better it is.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, that's the reason why I set up the Financial Plan of Life podcast as well, was to give an insight into the profession from people within it, not just the top pillars and the you know, the top financial advisors.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted the everyday people that are in there trying to make a difference, showing those different types of personalities, how they go, uh, how they how they do things, how they don't do things, the ups, the downs they've experienced.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, authenticity and re and the real side of it, I think, is really, really important, not just um, oh yeah, I can earn a load of money as a financial planner.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly it, yeah.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's um, I I think it's great to see that there's once you cast that net and you do find that there's other people with the same mentality, there's people that want the the profession to keep going.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And if there isn't people doing all what we're doing, or some of the local companies that support us and in you know trying to get people into the sector or to support people with financial education in the generalistic sense, then it will unfortunately die off or be monopolized by a couple of um you know large firms, unfortunately.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's great to keep that variety going, great to keep the younger people and the new, less experienced people into the sector.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Sean, great.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your website's to be off the ground soon.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: What we'll do is make sure that we attach that to the YouTube video and to the podcast episodes that appear on Apple and Spotify.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they always get downloads, they always get listens on it on a weekly basis.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: So fingers crossed, you might get a few people that will come direct.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously, we'll share a nice social media post as well, um, and with your name on it, and then people can come directly to you.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you're building the website, which means you're probably then going to focus on some branding, which means you're probably then gonna focus on some social media stuff.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's gonna grow organically and naturally anyway, isn't it?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think over time it's gonna be it's gonna be out there.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you've asked me to be a part of it as well, and you know, I'm up for that.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Keen to come along and and and help and um contribute in any way that I possibly can.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I suspect throughout the years or months, whatnot, there probably will be some crossovers between us that we can help each other with.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very much interested in getting involved in anything like that.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we look forward to it.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and then as you mentioned, um, anybody who wants to get in contact, whether they want to support or just be involved, it's um yeah, door is always open for a conversation.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: For sponsors, etc.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, yeah.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Top man, brilliant.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Sean, thank you so much for your time today.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Really appreciate you sharing your journey and sharing the foundation.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: Likewise, thanks for having me.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_02: Have a have a good rest of your day.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you, buddy.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: Cheers.