Latest / My Favorite Things / My Favorite Things Episode 8: Chandra Brown

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My Favorite Things Episode 8: Chandra Brown · My Favorite Things

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Chandra Brown, thanks for being here.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Brendan.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are?
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, my name is Chandra.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm originally from Alaska.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I live in Western Montana, just upstream from you.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm an educator, first and foremost.
• 0:27
  And a writer and an entrepreneur and also kind of am trapped in
• 0:34
  this career as a river guide.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I can't quite escape it.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because of the money?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's so much money all the time.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a lot of money.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of money and a lot of prestige and I just can't.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: I understand you own your own business, educational business.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Is that true?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know who told you.
• 1:04
  But yeah,
• 1:06
  I run an organization here in Missoula called Free Flow
• 1:11
  Institute.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we, including you, as one of our instructors, we build
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: creative outdoor education opportunities for people,
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: kind of wilderness-based outdoor learning,
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: and the creative arts communications at the center of it.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and...
• 1:39
  We know each other because you've graciously allowed me to
• 1:42
  learn to teach through
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: doing free flow workshops starting in 2019.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And nobody noticed the entire time.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: They weren't like, this guy doesn't know what the hell he's doing.
• 1:53
  Yeah.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like we're pulling it off.
• 1:56
  And we have a workshop this June on Homestake Pass in Montana,
• 2:04
  trail running and writing.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: And we have a few spots still open, correct?
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Super exciting.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: And Brendan, it's been absolutely delightful to watch you
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: teach and watch your teaching sort of evolve and change.
• 2:25
  And I think that you have taught more consistently with
• 2:30
  FreeFlow than any of our
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: other instructors.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're basically a basically like co-operator of the organization.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I go that far.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate that.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 2:43
  Well,
• 2:44
  and this idea,
• 2:44
  you know,
• 2:45
  the idea for your your workshop,
• 2:47
  which is this this hybrid of
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: creative writing and low-key,
• 2:53
  well-supported trail running is one of the most wonderful
• 2:59
  things that anyone who
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: likes to be on their feet and likes to write and read could hope to do.
• 3:05
  And so thanks for opening that space to the Free Flow community
• 3:09
  year after year.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: But, um, I think that was just like a co-developed thing.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: We were just like, what the hell, what should we try?
• 3:17
  Cause we did river trips and then we did sea kayaking and then
• 3:20
  we settled on trail
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: running and that's been,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: that's been pretty great.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, should we get to your list?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Your favorite things.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, Island of the Blue Dolphins by Scott O'Dell.
• 3:36
  Where,
• 3:38
  where are you in life and how old are you when you,
• 3:41
  when you first encounter this book?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: I am probably in third or fourth grade,
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: which would be,
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: Mrs.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Carter's class,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: probably Mrs.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Carter's class at snowshoe elementary school outside of Wasilla,
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Alaska.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, um,
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was required reading.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe I was in fourth grade.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I was in fifth grade.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I can't quite recall.
• 4:16
  But it was compulsory to read this book as it is in or was in
• 4:20
  so many classrooms
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: for folks of our generation.
• 4:23
  And can you describe,
• 4:27
  there's a lot of people,
• 4:28
  I actually still have never read it.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: Hillary's read it.
• 4:31
  But can you describe what happens in the book a little bit for
• 4:33
  people who aren't
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: familiar with it?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:37
  And I will preface this by saying that the book now in the
• 4:40
  modern era encounters a
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: significant amount of challenge and controversy.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's problematic.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: But given the context of like,
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: late 80s,
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: early 90s,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: public education,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we have to be a little bit,
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: we have to extend it some grace
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what happens is, and it's loosely based on a true story.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's been modified significant.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Scott O'Dell,
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: the author was like a Hollywood,
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think he was a,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: he was a,
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: maybe a screenwriter or a filmmaker,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: before he wrote this book.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, um, so his like cinematic liberties are significant.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but basically he's taken the story of
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: an indigenous woman from the California coast,
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: from the Channel Islands,
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: who lived alone on this island after a conflict that ended poorly,
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: where she was sort of lost from her community.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it features a young indigenous protagonist,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: which is also problematic because it's told from,
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: this this
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: her perspective as conveyed by Scott O'Dell,
• 6:04
  who's like a 50 or 60 something year old white guy with little
• 6:09
  to no understanding
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: of this actual community,
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: this actual culture.
• 6:15
  But she basically survives on this island by herself for a
• 6:22
  number of years,
• 6:22
  I can't recall.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, you know, this book is sort of in this triad.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I tend to group them all together of like,
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: it was My Side of the Mountain by Jean Craighead George,
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: and then also Julie of the Wolves by Jean Craighead George.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: All three of these are like Newbery Medal winners,
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: like highly acclaimed young adult fiction novels.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: all very problematic and challenged,
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: if not banned at this point from reading lists in the school libraries.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: But they all,
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: all of these books dealt so beautifully with these themes,
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: like relationships between humans and animals was a big one.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And self-sufficiency and survival and like creative,
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: creative tactics for survival as a young person,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: like out in the world,
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: away from the built environment.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: and I think importantly too,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: they deal with these themes of autonomy and independence from adults,
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: which was obviously really appealing,
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: still,
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: you know?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:43
  you're like you're like eight or nine are you like are you
• 7:47
  adventurous are you like
• 7:48
  doing stuff in the outdoors at this point are you or is this
• 7:51
  like kind of a
• 7:52
  revelation to you and like oh my gosh i want to do i want to do
• 7:56
  these adventures or
• 7:57
  i want to be like you know this self-sufficient you know person
• 8:01
  who can survive on
• 8:01
  their own in the wilderness yeah yeah they felt like these
• 8:07
  books felt like
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: instruction manuals you know
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that where I grew up,
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in Alaska,
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: but I did not grow up in a family that was like,
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: get out there and have adventures.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we were like a hunting and fishing family.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we had snow machines, otherwise known here as snowmobiles.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: The disdain.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:41
  But we,
• 8:42
  you know,
• 8:42
  I mean,
• 8:43
  yeah,
• 8:43
  these felt like here's what's possible,
• 8:46
  right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like here's what you could do.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe you don't need to endure some massive trauma,
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: to catalyze your participation in these adventures or in this sort of.
• 9:02
  this self-sufficiency and maybe as all those characters in
• 9:05
  those books did,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: they dealt with like really hard things and they dealt with big,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: human challenges like death and suffering and violence.
• 9:19
  But ultimately they got away from clocks and schools and the
• 9:24
  impositions of adult culture.
• 9:27
  We have like a pretty big jump in between your first and second
• 9:32
  item on this list.
• 9:33
  So how do you see Island of the Blue Dolphins affecting you as
• 9:38
  you get older and go
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: to junior high and high school and then make decisions about,
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: well,
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: up until 2001?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Island of the Blue Dolphins...
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: somehow that character affected me in such a profound way.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think that as I continued going through school,
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I lived in Alaska in the same house my whole childhood.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: I just had these dreams of creating things and creating with and
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: with the things of the earth, right?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was very drawn to being outside and like seeing what can happen,
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: if we spend more time outside.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:37
  I think I was a junior in high school and I decided I would
• 10:41
  somehow form these
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: relationships with rivers.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was really drawn to rivers.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and I wanted to know rivers beyond just, um,
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: standing on the bank and fishing.
• 10:53
  And so that's sort of when I started daydreaming about becoming
• 10:58
  a river guide and
• 10:59
  learning more about what it is to work outside and in a
• 11:05
  different context.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: So
• 11:09
  Yeah,
• 11:09
  I don't know how much I can say that that particular narrative
• 11:13
  carried me through.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it was actually a through line,
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: but it definitely provided some early inspiration for what was to come.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: What was your first river guide job?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: What year was that?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I got my first river guide job...
• 11:36
  working in the office of Denali Raft Adventures on the Nanana
• 11:43
  River up in Denali
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: National Park,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: on the periphery of Denali National Park,
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: the summer after my freshman year of college.
• 11:54
  And then I went there with the express intention of basically
• 12:01
  coercing these
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: established river guides
• 12:04
  into teaching me how to row boats as,
• 12:08
  as a super annoying,
• 12:09
  like 18 year old.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: So,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: and then,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: and then I,
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: and then I,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I had this mission of like,
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to go back and guide in Alaska,
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: but in order to work on those rivers up there,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: you had to have a certain amount of experience on warmer rivers.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I was going to school and college in Bozeman.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so I ended up working on the Yellowstone, um,
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: and then moving to the desert to try to,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: down to like the Colorado and Green Rivers,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: to try to accumulate this,
• 12:40
  amass this very minimal experience that Alaska was asking me to
• 12:45
  have as my
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: qualifications.
• 12:48
  Were there a lot of women river guides in those companies where
• 12:53
  you were working or
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: trying to work at that time?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 12:59
  So you were in this whole male-dominated space and trying to
• 13:06
  forge that ahead at
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: that point,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_02: huh?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think back to the women that were working in the industry then.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: I remember them all so clearly.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they stand out as, you know, these women.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: they're not caricatures,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: but they're definitely,
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: they're definitely characters that I can picture them all.
• 13:33
  And,
• 13:34
  you know,
• 13:34
  now it's,
• 13:35
  it's the,
• 13:36
  the,
• 13:36
  the world of,
• 13:37
  of,
• 13:38
  of river guiding has come so far.
• 13:41
  And,
• 13:42
  you know,
• 13:42
  there are often,
• 13:44
  it seems like as many females guiding as,
• 13:48
  as males.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: But when I started, it wasn't like that.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was,
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely brought me up in a different sort of way.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was influential, that culture.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: So number two, My Morning Jackets album, At Dawn, 2001.
• 14:10
  I pulled this up on Apple Music,
• 14:13
  and it's not even one of their quote-unquote essential albums.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, come on, Apple Music.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like that album?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was listening to it in like 2002, 2003, I think a bunch.
• 14:26
  And,
• 14:26
  uh,
• 14:27
  I think the previous album too,
• 14:29
  maybe,
• 14:29
  or maybe the one right after that.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: but yeah,
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: what is it,
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: where are you,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: where are you in life when,
• 14:35
  when you encounter my morning jacket for the first time or just
• 14:39
  this album for the
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: first time,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: I guess?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I was, um,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is a huge leap from third grade, like you were saying.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is like 26-year-old me.
• 14:57
  I just finished undergrad and had worked a season on the Golly
• 15:06
  River over in West
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Virginia and then had decided to take a year to think about
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: what my next move would be.
• 15:15
  And so I took that year to work in West Virginia and then I
• 15:21
  moved to Alta,
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Utah to work as a lifty,
• 15:27
  which is another job is really hard to leave because of the
• 15:29
  money and the prestige.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: The lore, I know.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone knows that.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone knows that.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And if they don't, they assume.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, exactly.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I don't have to explain to you why I was there.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was, it was, you know, 26.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: I actually was talking with Nate, my husband, about this yesterday.
• 15:55
  And he had a comparable sort of set of memories around music
• 16:02
  that he was listening
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: to when he was 26.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a hard,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: depending on what you have chosen to do with your life up to that point,
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: like 26 can be kind of gnarly.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And for me,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: it was definitely a really ugly,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: transitional period,
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:19
  where the structure of undergraduate school with college has
• 16:23
  suddenly dissolved,
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm out there in the world,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: making some pretty messy mistakes.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was living, I was bartending down in Midvale,
• 16:37
  which is kind of where little cottonwood is like little
• 16:40
  cottonwood Canyon,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: which is where Alta is.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: If it had like a Delta, like midfield would be like where it dumps out.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: and I could ride the bus from,
• 16:52
  that's where I was living with a bunch of river guides from
• 16:55
  West Virginia.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'd ride the bus, the public bus up to Alta.
• 17:00
  So I'd like bartend at night and then go do my lifty job in the
• 17:04
  daytime and
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was, I was sober.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I had made some, again, some big mistakes.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so this,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: this year I was,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was totally sober,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: for the first time in my adult life.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: uh,
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: and the ski industry,
• 17:23
  like the river industry is kind of a hard place to be sober and
• 17:27
  was back then
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: anyway,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: especially,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was,
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was just kind of like,
• 17:35
  I was trying to learn to ski and powder on these old skinny
• 17:39
  telemark skis.
• 17:41
  And I was just trying to establish myself outside of college
• 17:50
  and out of the context
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: of river work.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I had my little iPod.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I remember it was in some sort of white protective case.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I would sit there on that bus listening to
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: to this My Morning Jacket album,
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: which was the first,
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: this was the second studio album from My Morning Jacket.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was the first exposure I'd had to the band.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was madly in love with Widespread Panic at the time and still am.
• 18:19
  And My Morning Jacket was sort of affiliated loosely with like
• 18:24
  the Widespread Panic
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: touring circuit and they played some of the same festivals.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I knew of them and
• 18:36
  I feel like those bus rides is where I really got to know my
• 18:40
  morning jacket.
• 18:42
  And it was a really moody soundtrack to the stormy,
• 18:47
  stormy weather inside my 26-year-old head.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: I follow this YouTuber who,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: specifics don't matter,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: but he said something like,
• 19:01
  I would argue that music is only as good as the memory that's
• 19:05
  associated with it.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: And how much nostalgia plays into how much we...
• 19:12
  you know listen how much how much things stick in our brains
• 19:15
  and i think like
• 19:18
  you're you're not on your phone then you know you're like
• 19:20
  listening to this this
• 19:22
  album you're i don't know are you lonely feeling a little bit
• 19:25
  isolated and like
• 19:27
  doing these long bus rides like is that is that your memory of
• 19:32
  it and like why this
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: is such a good soundtrack for it
• 19:36
  Yeah,
• 19:37
  I think lonely despite the fact I lived in a crowded house with
• 19:43
  five or six other humans.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Lonely despite the fact I was on this bus with...
• 19:52
  so many you know it's always so crowded lonely despite the fact
• 19:56
  i spent all day
• 19:57
  like shoveling snow and like shoving people's butts into
• 20:02
  chairlift seats and and i
• 20:05
  think that is a special brand of of loneliness right and it
• 20:09
  comes in my memory it
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: comes from or came from
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: just a lack of familiarity with my own like evolving self.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so there is like a special,
• 20:25
  there's an interesting valence to that type of loneliness that
• 20:28
  I think is reserved
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: for youth,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: or like that transition away from
• 20:36
  away from being um sort of you're starting to realize the
• 20:40
  gravity and of your of
• 20:42
  your actions and the impact that your mistakes can have in the
• 20:45
  world yeah trying to
• 20:47
  find your people or thinking you might be finding your people
• 20:50
  but why why am i so
• 20:52
  alone amongst these people yeah and all that maybe yeah yeah
• 20:57
  yeah and there's
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: something about that album you know he he
• 21:01
  um did you know you probably already know this but he they
• 21:05
  they're from kentucky
• 21:06
  and they recorded that at dawn album in an abandoned grain silo
• 21:14
  on uh wow i didn't
• 21:16
  know that yeah for like for like the reverb for like the
• 21:19
  natural reverb and there
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: is that like strange ethereal like echoey
• 21:24
  sound throughout the whole album that feels really like
• 21:27
  spacious and airy but also
• 21:30
  like kind of spooky yeah i was gonna say haunted yeah haunting
• 21:35
  yeah yes um yeah
• 21:38
  that's fantastic what's your if somebody's never listened to
• 21:43
  this album what's your
• 21:44
  what's your track you would tell them to start it on man so
• 21:50
  there's one track on
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: there that so this was when like
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like in their second studio album,
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: my morning jacket like started to get kind of weird,
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll say that the first time I saw them play live,
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Jim James,
• 22:04
  the front man was wearing like moon boots and maybe a cape and
• 22:09
  like maybe had a
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: sidearm and a holster,
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like so like weird and kind of over the top and wonderful.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And there's one song on there called
• 22:21
  phone went west it's like seven or eight minutes long and it's
• 22:24
  kind of like this
• 22:26
  vaguely reggae beat like this loping reggae beat um but it is
• 22:33
  it also sort of
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: defies genre i think and that's the one i always go to yeah
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 22:41
  I think that's the greatest thing about digital music is you
• 22:44
  can just start the
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: album whenever and loop it,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: as opposed to like putting a record on.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to say the track for me on that one is Bermuda Highway.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so good.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: Not an everyday track,
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: but you're like,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: if I need to feel a little bit sad or wishful,
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: maybe I'm going to put this one on.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, so good.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love that one too.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then I really like the Christmas Curtain.
• 23:10
  well there's just it's just loaded it's good stuff yeah yeah um
• 23:17
  okay next one
• 23:21
  american window mark chagall and you even put art institute of
• 23:25
  chicago on here for
• 23:26
  that's where it is i believe um what's did you see it at the
• 23:32
  art institute of
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: chicago is that what what happened i did
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's where it is.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I first became acquainted with Marc Chagall in college.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was an art major.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I was madly in love with his painting.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: He painted like livestock.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: like chickens and goats and like hybrid human animals and sort of bucolic
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: landscapes that were meant to represent his hometown in Russia.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very dreamlike, like super, super...
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: speaking of defying genre,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Chagall's work can be,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: compared to,
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: depending on the era,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: it could be surrealistic,
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: it could be cubist,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: it could be,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: any number of things,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: but it definitely is beautiful.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: He's considered to be one of the great masters of color.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I loved him so much.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a boyfriend for a long time who was from Chicago.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And his dad started to decline while I was living in Ecuador.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: So this would have been 2010 or 11, and I was probably 29 or 30.
• 25:24
  And I flew back to be with him and to be with his family from
• 25:29
  Ecuador and to be
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: with his dad and support him as his dad was ailing.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I had never really been around an actively dying person before.
• 25:49
  and had never really been in such close proximity to that sort
• 25:53
  of acute grief when
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: his dad was in hospice.
• 25:59
  And so at some point on one of those visits,
• 26:02
  we went to the Art Institute of Chicago.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know about this.
• 26:10
  I didn't know about the America Windows installation,
• 26:14
  but Chagall had,
• 26:16
  in 1977,
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: he had installed these stained glass windows.
• 26:22
  He's primarily a painter,
• 26:23
  but he was starting to work in stained glass later in his life.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And there was something about like walking into this room.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: I just remember it being incredibly spacious,
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: maybe totally empty,
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: like white austere room with these huge blue stained glass panes.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: They were
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're massive, and there's just every shade of blue you can imagine.
• 26:48
  And it was really,
• 26:51
  really calming and also very grounding in a way,
• 26:57
  right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact that it wasn't a painting, but rather windows.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: There was just something so impactful, right?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: there.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it was just a position of like the,
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: the weight and intensity of the experience there in Chicago,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: but then also just the light,
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: the lightness associated with those windows.
• 27:22
  So when you see these things,
• 27:24
  they're like,
• 27:24
  well,
• 27:24
  they're like eight feet tall.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: Are they, are they on a wall?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Are they actually,
• 27:30
  can you see light coming from outside through them or how are
• 27:33
  they actually
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: installed there?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Windows totally.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Windows to the outside.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: And your,
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: your ex-boyfriend's father is still,
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: still alive at this point while you're,
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: while you're walking through the art Institute or is this after?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's still alive.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: But kind of barely.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so really interesting.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:57
  I think I think there was the timing of being introduced to
• 28:03
  those windows was really important.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: What, uh, do you see any effect of that going forward for you?
• 28:12
  Or was that just kind of like this very emotional moment where
• 28:15
  you're like,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm,
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: this is just a place that's,
• 28:18
  this is just going to live in my life as like these two things
• 28:21
  are going to be
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: attached to each other.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like this memory of seeing these windows is always going to be that time.
• 28:26
  Or do you see it kind of going forward for you at all in art or
• 28:30
  otherwise?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good question, Brendan.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think there is something about the medium and the fact that Chagall,
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: I had known Chagall,
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I had known his work for so long,
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: but I honestly,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: at that point,
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: it hadn't even really sunk in that he was also working in glass.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: And most of his...
• 28:59
  I think there were only two of his glass installations that
• 29:02
  were not in churches.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, and this was one of them.
• 29:12
  There was something about the medium that just indicated so
• 29:16
  much possibility.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:20
  So there was like an expansiveness to the very idea of
• 29:25
  translating like Chagall's
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: imagery and Chagall's use of color to glass and then allowing light,
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: obviously,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: to play an integral part in the art itself.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was something too about,
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: and this feels especially poignant right now,
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking back last night about
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: The iconography,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: the actual content of those windows is like Chagall was this Russian Jew,
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 29:58
  And he lived through World War II in the United States and like
• 30:02
  loved the United
• 30:03
  States for the protection that it offered him and the freedom
• 30:06
  that it offered him.
• 30:08
  And so those windows are like a celebration of humanities
• 30:12
  within the context of
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: American liberty.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 30:18
  And so there was,
• 30:19
  like,
• 30:20
  he loved Chicago and he loved the United States so much.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it was,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: seeing those,
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: for me,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: seeing those windows in the middle of this,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: stark,
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: cold Chicago winter where,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: death was kind of,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: the theme,
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: there was,
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: this deep,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: resonant understanding of,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: possibility again,
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: what America represented to Chagall and how,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: in all that darkness and all that coldness.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And for him,
• 30:51
  all the violence that he lived through and yet this is what
• 31:05
  America meant to
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Chagall.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't know if any of that makes sense.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's a little loopy, but it's all wrapped up for me.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Did you ever work with stained glass at all?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Never.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: You got enough room at your new place maybe to do stained glass?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 31:26
  The comment about only two of his stained glass installations
• 31:31
  not being in churches
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: kind of makes me wonder how much stained glass is not in churches.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, what percentage of it?
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like that's the main venue, you know.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: But who knows?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Number four, we have another music one.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta say,
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was honestly surprised you didn't have a widespread panic,
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: no mention whatsoever on this list,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: this is great.
• 31:57
  Cause I have more,
• 31:57
  I have more experience with both these,
• 31:59
  uh,
• 32:00
  both these artists.
• 32:01
  Sturgill Simpson concert at the Wilma theater in Missoula,
• 32:05
  November 8th,
• 32:06
  2016.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: You knew the date there.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: So what, uh, or maybe you went back and looked this up, but, uh,
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to look that up.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's specific.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't, why didn't you have to look it up?
• 32:20
  Yeah,
• 32:21
  that was,
• 32:21
  so Sturtle Simpson came and played a show in Missoula on
• 32:26
  election night in 2016.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: And, and so he's, he's magnificent.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love him, adore him.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love everything about him.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: All the art he's made.
• 32:43
  all the commentary he's released into the world,
• 32:46
  everything that he does.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he was touring Sailor's Guide to Earth,
• 32:54
  which was this album that came out in April of 2016 and was
• 33:01
  like so brilliant and
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: so novel.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he was touring with a horn section.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a really big sound.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: and he played at the Wilma,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: which is our,
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: our little theater in Missoula,
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: just up from the river.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: And, um, you know, it was election night.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: You might recall, like, you might remember that day.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I have my own stories for the next day, but yeah.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, it was tense, right?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: It was a super tense night.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of confused energy in the theater.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: It felt like the right thing to do, obviously.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we wouldn't have missed the show.
• 33:49
  And,
• 33:49
  like,
• 33:50
  what a,
• 33:50
  I don't know,
• 33:52
  to be there with all of our friends,
• 33:54
  like,
• 33:54
  made sense.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then at some point,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: in the second set,
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: there was,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: this shockwave that just kind of,
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: like reverberated down from like the balcony down to the floor.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone knew what was going on.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people are on their phones.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: People are starting to like drop out.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: They're starting to like leave.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: The theater is like emptying out prematurely.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: And everything, everything shifted, right?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like the energy shifted.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: And Sturgill clearly knew what was going on,
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: though he hadn't,
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: he didn't stop playing for a second.
• 34:35
  then he just fucking raged he just like threw down so hard and
• 34:42
  you know to me this
• 34:44
  concert was like it represents the power of musicians to hold
• 34:49
  space for something
• 34:50
  as big as what happened on that night yeah do you remember when
• 34:55
  you say he raged
• 34:56
  humor what songs he was yeah he was basically playing that
• 35:00
  sailor's guide to earth
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: start to finish
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: if I remember correctly,
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: that second set was like the album,
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: which should be taken as a whole because it's so brilliant.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he just wailed.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: What was the mood?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: What was the mood like when he was doing that?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: Or like, how did the mood shift in the, in the theater?
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Or did it?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: It shifted a lot.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing was stable.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: I remember it being like,
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: it really did feel like waves,
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: like these strange energetic waves,
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: not to sound too woo,
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: but like it was unlike anything I've ever experienced.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been to a lot of shows.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen a lot of live music.
• 35:52
  And this one takes the cake as far as like him preserving the
• 35:59
  integrity of this container and
• 36:01
  for that shifting energy because people,
• 36:04
  people were like,
• 36:06
  you know,
• 36:06
  there was anger.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of anger.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of intensity.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, people were just like bailing out of the theater.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: we're,
• 36:18
  we're like staying the course and we're going to finish this
• 36:21
  thing strong.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: No one requested an encore, right?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like he just walked, he like walked off the stage.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was it.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but,
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: man, I've got so much respect for him.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: How does that feel looking back at that concert in that day now,
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: like given what's happening in America and the U S right now,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: like does that,
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: how does that feel?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, shoot.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: this is the spot, this is the spot I was telling you about emotions.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a bookend, right?
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like so many,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: like so many,
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: so many experiences we have with art and music like that,
• 37:19
  that particular concert and that particular night feels like it
• 37:23
  feels like it,
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: it was,
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: it was a place where something started,
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: when that concert ended,
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: something else started.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: and I think that,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: the important thing,
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 37:41
  I think the important thing that I keep coming back to is that
• 37:45
  music and art,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: absolutely more important now than ever before,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: or I mean,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: as it ever has been during times of,
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: unrest or, you know, violence.
• 38:02
  And yeah,
• 38:04
  I remember,
• 38:05
  I remember going to,
• 38:06
  I was teaching high school at the time.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember the next day I had to go to parent teacher conferences,
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: which were very poorly attended.
• 38:16
  Wow.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I just,
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: and I wrote,
• 38:19
  I actually wrote a letter to Sturgill Simpson from my office or
• 38:23
  my classroom that
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: evening,
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: just being like,
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now's the time, right?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like where we see what music can do and what music can,
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: how music can support what's about to come,
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: what's about to come next.
• 38:40
  that's kind of the whole theme of this Fela Coote podcast Fear
• 38:45
  No Man our mutual
• 38:47
  friend Nick Triolo turned me on to which is really interesting
• 38:51
  to look back that
• 38:52
  far and be listening to that and hear what happened with all of
• 38:56
  his music yeah I
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: know and that's that's Jab right?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: Jab Abumrad yeah so good
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm four episodes in.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very, very, I'm into it.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: I love Fela Cootie though.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: Not the person.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: He's definitely a problematic person, but the music is amazing.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:25
  um okay this last one is this is a great pick because um it's
• 39:29
  not something anybody
• 39:30
  else can actually see but it's my dad's micromet weather data
• 39:35
  collection units
• 39:37
  early 1990s to present um i think you have to describe what a
• 39:42
  micromet weather data
• 39:43
  collection unit is to like because i don't know what that is
• 39:47
  and i think it's
• 39:48
  useful for the podcast yeah i wouldn't imagine that anyone
• 39:52
  really knows with
• 39:54
  these are um but yeah my dad in his work um he invented
• 40:03
  instruments that were
• 40:05
  designed to collect weather and ocean and snow data um from
• 40:11
  various landscapes
• 40:12
  primarily across Alaska but then in later in the later years of
• 40:16
  his business and of
• 40:17
  his work he extended his reach to like he's got he's got these
• 40:22
  little weather
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: stations in like
• 40:23
  chile and greenland and um all over the west coast anyway of
• 40:29
  our country but the
• 40:32
  the way these little these the way these little things work is
• 40:34
  they're like um
• 40:36
  here's a like a box like a weather like a like a weatherproof
• 40:39
  box with a um a
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: little solar powered whirly bird on top like a little um ananometer maybe
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds good.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: The wind thing?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a little wind thing.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: A little wind thing that's always spinning, always worrying.
• 41:00
  And then these telemetry sites would just basically collect the
• 41:06
  data and then
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: they'd send it back to his servers in his basement,
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: his laboratory,
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: through satellite telemetry and also through meteor bursts,
• 41:18
  which is kind of old technology where you bounce a radio signal
• 41:23
  off of a meteor and
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: it triangulates back to a receptor site.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: And...
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: so his biggest client was the,
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: NRCS,
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 41:34
  natural resource conservation service who runs all the snow
• 41:37
  tell sites in the
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: country.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're a steer or if you use,
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: if you recreate or use rivers or,
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 41:44
  or if you're interested in like water supply and floods and
• 41:49
  climate trends,
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: the snow tell sites are,
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: are critical to that.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so my dad, you know, he,
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: would install these units out on the landscape by himself.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes he would take me and my little brother out with him.
• 42:09
  And we'd go out on like four wheelers or boats and try to get
• 42:14
  to these weather stations.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then he would install these stations.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I never would have called my dad's work creative
• 42:30
  until more recent years as I've been kind of working with him
• 42:34
  to well not working
• 42:35
  with him working independent of him to to wrap up and shut down
• 42:39
  his business as
• 42:40
  he's got Alzheimer's and his brain has been totally stolen away
• 42:44
  he doesn't work
• 42:45
  anymore but his I do see when I'm up there in Alaska I every
• 42:52
  once in a while will
• 42:52
  stumble if I'm hiking or running or if I'm out in a river
• 42:57
  canyon every once in a
• 42:58
  I'll stumble upon one of his weather stations,
• 43:00
  one of these little units.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so to me now, you know, I've been trying to and it's not hard.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've been trying to see these inventions and instruments as art,
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: like as like quasi permanent installations out on the land.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_02: I have a book called Soviet bus stops and it's actually just all,
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: but the bus stops were created by artists,
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: but they are these functional things that it's just photos of,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: not great photos of bus stops and former Soviet republics.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's, it's one of two books.
• 43:36
  They're like little coffee table books,
• 43:37
  but it's another one of those things.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's like,
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_02: it's just a,
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: it's a very functional piece that's out there and you,
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_02: that you have,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: uh,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: that,
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: that actually it is art.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 43:49
  how uh how big are these things we're talking about when you
• 43:52
  and your dad and your
• 43:52
  brother go to take one out and install it's like the size of a
• 43:55
  microwave or is it
• 43:56
  smaller than that yeah the little boxes are um you know they're
• 44:02
  maybe like 12 by 12
• 44:04
  and they house circuit boards or whatever whatever goes in them
• 44:08
  honestly i'm not
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: actually 100 sure
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: what you'd call the little instruments that go in the box.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then they,
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: and then they,
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: he did install them on a tripod and the tripod,
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: would then be anchored into the rock or into the,
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: whatever the surface is that you're working with.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: and then the little,
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: the little,
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: there'd be like appendages coming off different sensors,
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: different instruments,
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: but the,
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: the tripods themselves,
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: the ones that are in the mountains,
• 44:41
  anyway are probably like eight to ten feet tall wow yeah did
• 44:48
  you get a sense at
• 44:49
  some point where you realized your dad had like a unique job or
• 44:53
  maybe even an
• 44:54
  interesting job compared to other other parents yeah definitely
• 45:01
  I am you know he
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: He worked for himself.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: He worked for the USGS.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's what took him to Alaska initially.
• 45:09
  And then he was working with this meteor burst communication
• 45:12
  service for a long time too.
• 45:13
  But then he broke off on his own because he wanted to be
• 45:16
  independent and he wanted
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: to work alone.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think for me, I think it was hard sometimes to be the
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_00: the child of an entrepreneur and an inventor,
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: because those two things,
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: those two professions,
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: those two identities,
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think were sometimes at odds because he was a terrible,
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: terrible businessman.
• 45:39
  And so he never,
• 45:40
  he never was,
• 45:41
  he never made enough money to be comfortable.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: So he was always,
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_00: always hustling,
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: even though he was create and working constantly,
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: constantly working.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: So even though he, you know, the things that he was creating were so,
• 45:54
  proprietary to his brain and his imagination and so necessary
• 45:58
  in the world but yet
• 46:00
  he was never compensated in the way that he should have been
• 46:03
  and so I think for me
• 46:04
  as a kid and honestly as an adult up until very recently I sort
• 46:09
  of resented his
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: work and not until I started diving a little deeper into
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: into its value and into its, you know, its evolution.
• 46:20
  And then also starting to see the units out on the landscape
• 46:23
  with new eyes.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I realized, oh, like dad's work was singular in that way.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: But no,
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: as a kid,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely,
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 46:34
  I liked going out on the four-wheeler with him and I liked
• 46:36
  going out on the boats.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: And he went to some incredible places, you know, incredible austere,
• 46:45
  landscapes and oceanscapes that were you know that i will
• 46:50
  probably never see you
• 46:52
  know um and that part seemed very cool to me but yeah i
• 46:55
  definitely resented i
• 46:57
  resented his work often because it took him so far away from
• 47:00
  home yeah dentists you
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: know that would have been a stable
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: But I was going to say like under compensated doing important work.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: He definitely was an artist then.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: Or it's something in common with artists.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and you, uh, work for yourself now too.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: strangely,
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: do you think that's,
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: do you think there was something from your dad in,
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: in that decision to try to,
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: to try to work independently or,
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_02: or is that just a fluke?
• 47:37
  no i don't think that's i i don't think that's a fluke um
• 47:43
  there's definitely like a
• 47:46
  there's like a personality type isn't there right like maybe
• 47:51
  maybe i don't know or
• 47:53
  maybe there's like um yeah maybe there's just this maybe it
• 48:00
  comes maybe full circle
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: it comes back to that like
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: My side of the mountain,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Island of the Blue Dolphins,
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: like just kind of wanting to operate outside of the establishment.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: Full circle.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Full circle.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Side up with a bow.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're done here.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I don't know.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what it is.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_02: I just know that when people start working for themselves,
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_02: it's very hard to,
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: in my experience,
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: it's very hard to talk yourself into going back,
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: even though I think about it pretty much weekly.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, 100%.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think about it.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to have a boss that's like, that's not good enough.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's good enough.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, your day is done.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_02: You get paid on Fridays.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: Same amount.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: You get paid this month, you know, take some money home.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no, there's one more question I was going to ask.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh,
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: do you think he,
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: do you think he had similar feelings that you,
• 49:02
  that you might have that you have now and running your own
• 49:05
  business and in a
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: creative man,
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_02: and this thing you created,
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_02: that's not,
• 49:10
  you know,
• 49:10
  it's not a job,
• 49:11
  it's a job you're making up and it's a business you've created.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's unique.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think you've had similar,
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: you think your dad had any similar motions or emotions or moments,
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: as you've had the last,
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: what,
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: almost 10 years now with free flow Institute in his work?
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a really good question.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think, I think so.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think he definitely, um,
• 49:39
  I remember moments in my growing up,
• 49:43
  in my childhood,
• 49:44
  where he was just like,
• 49:46
  I'm done.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm flushing this down the toilet.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm walking away.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can't.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like,
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: full-blown meltdowns,
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: right,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: from the stress and also the lack,
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: right,
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_00: we were talking about the lack of compensation,
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: the lack of structure,
• 50:00
  the lack of identifiable benchmarks that make you feel like a
• 50:04
  crazy person,
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: and he just
• 50:08
  But then his identity was so inextricably tied up in his work
• 50:15
  that ultimately there
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: would have been no other recourse.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: To your point,
• 50:20
  he could not have gone back to work for someone else because he
• 50:24
  had made this place
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_00: for himself and the world.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: Which was the work.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: See, yeah, I guess.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mentioned like getting a real job too.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know which friend a few months ago and they were like,
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: really,
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_02: what could you actually do?
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 50:43
  um the flip side of that question though is do you ever uh you
• 50:48
  know it's this
• 50:48
  classic like parenting moment where you're like saying
• 50:51
  something to your kid you're
• 50:52
  like oh my god i sound just like my mom i sound just like my
• 50:54
  dad have you had a
• 50:56
  have you had a like a business related meltdown where you're
• 50:58
  like i'm turning into
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: my dad you know it's horrible it's horrifying isn't it it's like um
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: But then, you know, when you're younger, it's terrifying.
• 51:12
  But then there's like a point where it kind of flips and you're
• 51:16
  like,
• 51:17
  well,
• 51:17
  it's not so bad.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wouldn't mind being, you know, like this is actually a, right?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're like,
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: this is something I,
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: there's like a latent,
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: like subterranean respect that I didn't even know was there.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it kind of bubbles up and I have this,
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: in those moments of suffering,
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: you're like,
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: animosity toward the project.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, well, no, dad must have felt this too.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a strange, miserable connection there as well.
• 51:49
  yes we are this is like time travel we are united through this
• 51:53
  special moment that
• 51:55
  we're both having yeah no i think the lay person's term or way
• 52:00
  of saying it i've
• 52:00
  heard is the older i get the smarter my dad gets yes which
• 52:04
  which is sort of you say
• 52:05
  that for moms too of course yes or any parent but yeah um yeah
• 52:10
  well that's i hope
• 52:11
  your business keeps going uh if you want it to um it seems it's
• 52:16
  it's been fun for
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: me
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Brendan.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it keeps going too.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thanks so much for taking the time to discuss your favorite art.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_02: This has been super fun.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think we tied it up very nicely at the end there.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the goal, right?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing messy or ambiguous or open-ended.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Nope, we're good.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's the end.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Brendan.