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Michael Webster | The Christian Reeve Podcast #311 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  Hello and welcome. Welcome to another episode of
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  the Christian Reef Podcast. Today's guest is a promoter, A
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  producer, A musician. He hosts open mics.
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  He does pretty much everything you can do in music.
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  Mentally talented, and I'm going to introduce him the way he
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  introduces everyone. The wonderful new music.
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  Michael Webster. How you doing man?
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  You're right. I'm good man.
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  I've just picked up on like whenever you introduce people,
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  there's always like AI don't know.
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  I don't know where it comes from.
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  And it's just like a natural, like, Oh, yeah, let's, let's go,
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  you know, But I don't know. It's, it's, no, it's, it's
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  sweet. It's not like a bad thing.
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  It's and you know what I recognize it from is like you
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  always feel like you need to kind of give it like that little
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  oomph sometimes. And everyone's got their own
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  little thing. Like, for instance, the way I
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  introduced the podcast, like it used, I used to do it slightly
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  differently. And then I kind of settled on
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  something and then that's what it became.
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  And you didn't give it much thought.
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  It's kind of like, yeah, this is this is this.
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  Yeah, I think, I think that's the case for for everyone
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  though, isn't it? You know, you kind of get used
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  to the way you do it and you settle into certain things and
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  then it just kind of goes from there.
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  Do you know what I mean? You know, absolutely.
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  How did you get into hosting open mics?
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  Like what did that start? Because I feel like it's as a
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  musician, it's an interesting 1 to get into that field.
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  Like my journey was kind of like I started just showing up, like
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  getting back into music often years of being away from it.
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  Start showing up, start playing, stop playing, stop befriending
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  the people that like hosted and stuff.
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  And then eventually I'm hosting here and now I'm covering here
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  and there. And then I formed my partnership
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  with Koisha recently. Yeah, there's like an
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  opportunity came up, but it's it's it's a weird one because I
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  guess like you can like approach and be like, hey, here's my
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  idea. If you're, you know, looking for
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  an open mic, I've got this idea like, how did you start that?
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  I started kind of covering like my bandmate whenever he was like
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  in work or I had to do other things or whatever.
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  It just kind of went from there. Like, I got like offered one at
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  a new place. This is, you know, before the
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  pandemic, the ancient times, but I kind of started doing that
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  just there and then. And then it kind of it kind of
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  started building and then the lockdown happened.
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  Do you know what I mean? So like I got offered one and
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  then the lockdown happened. And then as we went through the
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  stages of, you know, reopening our stuff, I was able to start
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  doing things. And then more places wanted them
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  because, you know, they wanted to do things because you
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  couldn't do anything for so long, you know?
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  And then it's just kind of progressively I've gone to like
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  I've taught certain venues been like, oh, this, I really want to
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  do something here. It sounds really cool.
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  It'd work really well this, that and the other.
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  And then sometimes venues will approach me, you know, it's kind
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  of, it's a good balance, you know what I mean?
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  It's not just like, you know, me being hounded on me hounding,
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  you know? I mean, it's it's like I think
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  people recognise the good work you do.
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  You know, a lot of the time whenever I'm promoting the
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  Knights, I do, I also like throw your name and that and be like,
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  Oh yeah, by the way, go check out Michael.
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  He does, yeah. And I think it's important to
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  have different options, different vibes.
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  I like, I like seeing certain people that show up at yours
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  show up at ours and vice versa. I'm like, oh, cool.
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  Because you get like a little bit of a different vibe, you
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  know, I. Know people who'll go to 1 and
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  then the next week they'll go to a different one because they
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  just want a change of atmosphere, change of pace.
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  You know, every pub, it has its own atmosphere and its own kind
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  of what's going on with it. Do you know what I mean?
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  You know, like like for example, like the flower and flagon is
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  no, is so much more studenty, a bit more like, you know, big
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  atmosphere, lots going on then compared to the Grafton where
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  it's really chill, you know. Which is your favorite one to
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  do? I I can't say I can't.
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  It's like Aspen a favour. What's your favorite kid?
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  Isn't it, you know, No, like I like them all because they all
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  have different like atmospheres. So none of them feel like I'm
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  doing the same job over and over and over.
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  Like I am doing the same job, but it's like I'm doing new
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  things each day. Do you know what I mean?
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  In a different kind of atmosphere, like the music
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  choices in between, the kind of how busy it is, how much I have
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  to be like, you know, they all have completely different kind
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  of feelings to them, you know, which is nice because it's not
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  just you're not coming to 1 and then going to another and going,
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  Oh well, the same kind of thing. I know how this will sound, but
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  just bear with me. Like, do you still kind of get
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  like excited about it when you do it or is it like work and
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  then there's high points and low points?
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  No, I do get excited about it because I've done ones in the
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  past and it got to the point where I was like not looking
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  forward to it and then I knew that was time to stop doing
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  that. Do you know what I mean?
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  You know, various factors come into that.
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  But like if if you don't enjoy doing it, then what's the point
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  in doing it? What were the reasons in with
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  the previous places where it didn't quite work out?
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  You know, mostly kind of like the changes of like management
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  or the just kind of like changes of the direction of what they
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  wanted, you know, or you know, didn't really fit with more of a
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  musical sense, you know? Well, what, what kind of thing?
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  Because this will branch into another question, but like what?
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  What kind of things were they looking for?
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  The where there was like a maybe like a, a crossover where it
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  didn't quite work out because. Some places just wanted to be
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  much more like sports felt focused.
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  Do you know what I mean? Or like, you know, they'll just
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  like the only musical thing they would have would be the upper
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  mic. So there was no kind of nothing
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  else going on musically. You know what I mean?
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  I just which it happens, you know, you got, you know, you got
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  to explore all options when it comes to running a business.
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  But sometimes it's just not the right thing.
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  It's not the right fit, you know, and some places start out
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  really good and then just naturally take on it like a
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  trajectory of this isn't going to work out.
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  You know, we're we're going in a different direction, you know,
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  and it it happens. It's the way you know, you've
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  got you, you know, is it a case of let's keep the open mic going
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  or let let you know, let's say let's keep the open mic running,
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  but we're going to make no money or do we go and show the the
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  Champions League final and make thousands of pounds in a night
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  that could save our business? Do you know what I mean?
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  There's there is levels to it isn't that.
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  When I look at some of these sports bars, I'll put that
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  question that I had on on the back burner for a second.
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  I'm scratching my head a lot of the time when I see certain
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  venues going like, oh, we want some music.
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  And it's like, it makes sense because like, footy fans are
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  definitely music fans a lot of the time, but they have a very
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  specific thing they want to hear.
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  Yeah. And it's like, oh, so you want a
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  gig? You don't want open mic?
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  You want, yeah, you want a guy to come in or go whoever and
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  just play the hits. I think a lot of places don't
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  really know what they want. Do you know what I mean?
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  When it comes to it? Like I if you turn around to me
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  and you were in a sports bar and you were like, oh, we've just
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  shown the City West Ham game, it's going to be really busy.
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  We need someone to come in and play some tunes afterwards.
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  I would turn around and go, I'm not running an open mic.
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  Here's someone who could play all these songs that you would
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  want and will work, you know? And then because otherwise it's
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  just not an enjoyable experience for anyone, is it?
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  Do you know what I mean? I mean, it's like, OK, I'm going
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  to name drop. You don't have to say anything.
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  I'm just going to say with this new bar, this O'connell's that
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  just opened up. Yeah, I've not gone in, but
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  I've, I've seen it from the outside.
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  I've looked, I've seen what they're doing and that to me is
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  an example of, of a bit of a head scratcher because it's
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  quite clearly like sports focused but it's marketed as an
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  Irish bar. But then they've got some live
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  music and I can hear it and it sounds good.
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  They've got people, but it's just, it's an afterthought and
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  sometimes that will happen. You know, it makes sense if it's
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  a hotel lobby and you've got a guy playing some jazzy tunes or,
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  you know, setting some more mules and yeah, there's not
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  going to be a crowd. But with something like that,
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  with the space, I'd be like, I just put a jukebox on and just,
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  you know what I mean? Like you've got more seat in
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  then like I. Think the problem that you've
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  got nowadays in Manchester is it's trying to be a lot more
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  like corporate than it used to be.
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  It's going down the London route a little bit in places I.
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  Hate that? You know where in London, do you
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  know what I mean? You'll play a gig and then
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  they'll just not talk to you again for another six months
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  because there's a million other people who want to play gigs,
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  you know. But Manchester, there are
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  elements of it happening because obviously the money's coming in.
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  They have to kind of think on a bigger picture.
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  But there is also a level of, you know, there's a community in
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  Manchester, you know, the city centre, you know, people come in
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  to the city centre to hang out and, you know, meet up with
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  people from different areas. But then when you look at places
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  like Moss Side and Wally Range and Hume and stuff, there are
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  people who are like integral. They have been there for years
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  and years and they just go to the pub to hang out with the
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  mates, you know, regardless of who they are, you know what I
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  mean? They'll just be like, oh, these
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  are people from my, my, where I'm from, you know, these are
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  all my, my friends. I've got to say I I do feel bad
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  for Mancunians because I'm seeing what the gentrification
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  is doing to the city and yeah, I've been there five years.
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  I love the city, but I am seeing this like big divide now where
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  Mancunians are being driven out. It's all people that aren't from
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  Manchester that are moving into the city because it's so overly
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  priced, you know, So that's going to naturally happen.
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  But when you look at the culture of this city now, music is
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  always going to be huge in the city and there's so much good
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  music coming out of Manchester. I think you'll you'll never stop
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  the musical aspects of Manchester.
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  Do you know what I mean? And if you did they it just
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  wouldn't be in like the city centre.
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  It just been moved somewhere where people can afford to do
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  it. Do you know what I mean?
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  Like. Yeah.
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  Manchester that are just, you know, 7 LB a pint and you just
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  think who's doing that? You know what I mean?
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  Who? Who's going out and spending
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  that money? Well, it's crazy as well, like
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  this is something me and me and my boys talk about a lot where
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  places in the city centre will be still cheap, like £3 a pint
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  and it'd be decent alcohol in in a place where you'd expect to do
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  be expensive. And then right next door, as you
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  said, it's 7 or £8 and I'm like, this is insane.
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  I, I, I don't really have an answer to this.
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  I don't, I don't know why it's happening.
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  It's just, I think it's just the idea of, you know, they can do
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  it and they can get away with it to a degree.
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  I just think that, I mean this is basic business, right?
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  The prices you set for anything will determine people's
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  perception of it, but also the clientele, what you're drawing
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  in and out, etcetera. And you add music into the mix.
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  That's obviously a reason to pull people in, you know, So for
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  example, you doing an open mic on a Tuesday at Grafton is like,
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  oh cool, that's a reason to come in.
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  There's sports going on, people know that, but there's a reason
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  to always come in and you'll always get something a little
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  bit different and you know, cheap pints, decent music,
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  great, you know, but when like if they would like next week,
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  just be like, you know what, we need to make more money and you
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  know, it's just not good enough. So they'd now they're charging
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  £8. It would.
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  People would just leave and go elsewhere.
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  Yeah, they would leave, but I think some places the when it
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  comes to that kind of thing, it like slowly goes up.
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  Do you know what I mean? It's not like they've gone, oh,
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  it's £3 a pint. Oh, by the way, now it's 8.
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  No, you can't do that. Do you know what I mean?
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  If if you had a favorite butty from the, from the corner shop
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  and they turn around to you and he was like, oh, it's £8 now
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  rather than £3, you'd, you, you'd go, oh, I'm all right, I
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  don't want to, you know, you just have something else.
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  You know, they can't. It's not, that's not the way
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  that the economy works, sadly. Well, sadly, Bent gladly really
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  isn't. It.
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  Yeah, absolutely. So here's that question I put in
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  the back burner. Why do you think there's like
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  this huge influx of open mikes opening?
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  Now what I'll add with context to this is that, OK, obviously
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  there's a demand for it, but it's it's almost like the
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  oversaturation now. Like there's a group on
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  Facebook, I don't know if how it is in other cities, but for
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  Manchester, it's like so many in the city and I'm like, OK,
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  great. There's lots of different
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  options, but when I see what they're producing, then I say
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  like your setup or Monkeyshia setup or you know, other people
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  we know setups. I'm like, cool, you've got
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  something that's been going a while.
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  It's dedicated, it's professional, and then you've
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  got others where you walk in and it's just not and it's like, I
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  don't think you realize maybe what goes into it.
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  It's not just plug in the mic and play.
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  It's like there's a bit more to it If you want to actually make
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  it into an event I. Think some places there's, I've
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  seen a lot of mics over the time, over the past like what
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  five years, there's been a lot of people who wanted to do them,
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  a lot of people who tried them and they kind of went, oh, it's
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  a bit more hard work than I thought.
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  I've seen some that have been really busy and then dropped
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  away out because of black venues and stuff.
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  I think there's some that have set up with the idea of being
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  like, oh, oh, mic, you know, anyone get up?
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  But then it's a bit more karaoke themed, a bit more like, oh, you
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  can sing to a backing track and, you know, have a laugh.
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  And it kind of blended it like it like blurred this idea of
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  what a karaoke and a open mic were a little bit, you know, but
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  I think a lot of venues go, Oh, that looks like it's working
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  there. So then it worked.
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  They go, oh, it'll work ours. And then sadly it doesn't, you
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  know, it doesn't work out the way because, you know, you, you
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  can play some songs at the start and and be a really good host.
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  But if you don't know how to do the sound, then, you know, turns
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  up with AI don't know a resonator guitar or a lap steel
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  or something. And then goes, Oh, I need to be
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  miked up. And you haven't got any mic
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  stands, you know, or someone's like, oh, I've got an RCA cable
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  from my interface. Have you got an RCA input or a
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  funnel input? And then it starts getting like
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  actually sound engineered territory.
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  Do you know what I mean? I we have, we have some bands at
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  some of my mics and it's hard work.
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  Do you know? What I mean?
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  Oh. Actually got to do the the
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  sound, like really do the sound, you know, and there's a lot of
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  skills that you need. Like I know a few people who run
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  up mics with other people like you that you and Keisha don't.
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  And yes, they're both using the skills that you know, together,
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  which is really helpful. Like I've done sound for years
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  and I've hosted up mics for years.
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  So luckily I've done it for so long that I can, you know, I've
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  done sound work and hosted for so long that it's kind of second
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  nature to me now. But I think a lot of places just
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  kind of this the it's easy to see something be successful but
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  not see how much work goes into it.
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  I mean, that's what it is, you know, like you can have any, any
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  open mind could be successful if you put the hard work into it.
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  And sometimes events in general are pretty hard work, you know,
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  trying to get people down, trying to sort out sound
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  engineers, bands. Yeah.
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  This is what I mean, like, I I'm right there.
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  I'm so glad I spoke to you about this because there's there's a
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  lot that grinds my gears about it.
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  And I think people don't realize, Yeah, just how much
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  goes into it. And OK, what makes a good open
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  mic? I would argue that it's about
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  making connections with people, really discussing, talking to
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  people, making them feel comfortable on that stage.
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  I mean, like, me and Clay should have been criticized before for
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  like, say, putting people on the stage who maybe their skill
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  level wasn't there. And it's like, think about what
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  this is. This isn't a gig.
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  This is, yeah, this is an opportunity.
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  Mic is open. Do you know what I mean?
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  Yeah. Yeah, and you see people get
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  better over time. You see people get more
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  confident, you know, sometimes you give them advice and they
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  take it and they run with it and it's like, oh, great.
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  Like, you know. There's a lot of acts that I've
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  sent who started out and were, you know, you could see that
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  they wanted to do it, but they needed time to like own the
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  craft or like just like just little bits, little bits of
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  like, like tightening on the performance or, you know, we're
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  getting over a bit of stage fright.
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  But then six months down the line, like incredible
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  performers, you know, and all it takes is that they just need
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  that to keep going with it. You know, they need that kind of
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  first performance and a couple of practices live in a live
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  setting. I think everyone does, you know.
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  I think adding to that as well, like a big thing that I like
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  about yours and mine is that it's people feel confident to
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  keep going back and people understand that they're
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  appreciated and that that's why they stick around.
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  I've seen a lot where you just show up and then you leave and
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  and also the host fails in that they don't make it a space where
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  you'd want to stick around. It's like, OK, you're done now
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  next act it's. The way I always try and make it
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  is the one thing that I always try and ensure when I'm running
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  any event, be it a gig or open mic, whatever.
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  I want it to be a chill, chilled atmosphere somewhere where you
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  can, you know, hang out with your mates, have a beer, have a
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  little chat with your mates. But then when someone's
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  performing, you know, give them respect and give them, you know,
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  the respect they deserve performing, you know, make sure
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  that people are, you know, if you, if people are like sat
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  across from each other on different tables, try and be
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  like, oh, this guy's this, you know what I mean?
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  Like introduce people to each other because so many people,
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  like, people are shy. Do you know what I mean?
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  They don't want to, especially musicians, you know, they make
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  music to express their feelings. You know, most of them are very
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  shy people. So all it takes is just a little
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  bit of, oh, this person is performing as well.
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  And then they make friendships and, you know, potential band be
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  in bands together or collaborate.
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  To me it's, it's a little bit like like this show that I do
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  where, you know, I sit down, I spend time looking at my guest
• 20:02
  and researching them and then, you know, you've got something
• 20:06
  to talk about. So I've got things that are
• 20:07
  asking right. Same is true when people get on
• 20:09
  the stage. It's like, oh, by the way, this
• 20:11
  person's got an album. Oh, by the way, they're they're
• 20:13
  in the studio right now in little things like that I think
• 20:17
  go a long way. Yeah, it's just about like a lot
• 20:20
  of the, a lot of the acts that I have formulated, right.
• 20:23
  So like they come back over and over.
• 20:28
  So you get to know what they're doing, you know what I mean?
• 20:29
  Which is nice. But then there's never a case of
• 20:32
  like it used. We used to have it a bit where
• 20:37
  it would be a little bit clicky. Like not clicky, but it would be
• 20:41
  a bit like there was a regular group of regulars and then the
• 20:44
  other people who come in and, and if you were a bit shy or a
• 20:47
  bit nervous, it might take you a while to kind of get chant to
• 20:51
  them. But nowadays everyone's actually
• 20:53
  really, really good in just being like talking to each other
• 20:57
  and, you know, welcoming people into the, the space and being
• 21:01
  like, oh, asking people about stuff, which is, is very, very
• 21:05
  good to see because that is a main issue for a lot of people.
• 21:11
  I think when it comes to an upper mice is if it's too clicky
• 21:15
  or if it's like, you know, a load of mates chatting and
• 21:19
  having a laugh with each other and you're just there like you
• 21:22
  know. I think it's bullshit and that's
• 21:24
  something I think Kaisha has always done really well.
• 21:27
  I think you do it really well is to create that space where
• 21:30
  people feel actually comfortable to do that.
• 21:32
  Because I mean, like, I've seen sometimes people will come up to
• 21:36
  us at the desk at GC. I could sell.
• 21:39
  They're like really nervous just to talk Like they'll get,
• 21:42
  they'll get on stage and they'll be brilliant.
• 21:43
  But they're just, you know, they don't know.
• 21:45
  And then you're like, hey, hey, how's it going?
• 21:47
  You're right. You know, like, yeah, I might be
• 21:50
  busy doing sound, but I've got time to talk to you and say hi
• 21:53
  and, you know, see what you're about.
• 21:54
  And I just, I don't know, like the amount of times people have
• 21:58
  walked away and there's got like a big smile on their face and
• 22:01
  they're really happy and, and they're like, oh, great.
• 22:03
  You know, we come back. Yeah.
• 22:05
  Oh, yeah, definitely. Like they're right.
• 22:07
  That's brilliant. That's it, that's what it's all
• 22:08
  about. And you know, absolutely just
• 22:11
  having a, it's just about having a good laugh.
• 22:14
  That's all I ever think about with it.
• 22:15
  Do you know what I mean? If you're not going out with the
• 22:17
  mic, if you're going to an open mic, you don't have a laugh,
• 22:20
  then, you know, if you can't sit down and have a pint and have a
• 22:23
  laugh with someone, then what's the point of going out?
• 22:28
  Right. So we talked to like happy
• 22:29
  stuff. Now I'm going to like talk about
• 22:31
  stuff that grinds your gears because I think it's fun.
• 22:33
  You mentioned karaoke, which to me is like when I hear that.
• 22:37
  Don't get me wrong, I love karaoke as a concept, but I
• 22:40
  don't want to fucking hear it at an open mic.
• 22:42
  And I've, I've spoken to Kaiser about it before and we kind of,
• 22:46
  we agree. Like karaoke in general.
• 22:48
  No, we've, there's been a few times we gave someone a shot and
• 22:53
  then regretted it afterwards. Yeah, but I don't know.
• 22:56
  So this is how I feel. You tell me how you feel
• 23:02
  afterwards, right? This is my kind of if it's
• 23:07
  someone who is clearly like a good singer and you know, that
• 23:14
  they're that maybe they're thinking about writing music in
• 23:17
  the future or, you know, they're just thinking about singing
• 23:20
  regularly and they've got some songs that they can sing and
• 23:24
  they just need, you know, a backing track.
• 23:28
  I'm. I'm willing.
• 23:30
  Yeah. But it's, I know how this is
• 23:33
  sound to me. It's all about the presentation,
• 23:35
  right? So if you come up and you're
• 23:37
  like, I'm a singer, I want to sing, I want to do this.
• 23:39
  I've got some songs lined up. Great.
• 23:42
  When it's oh, mate, can I sing? Can I sing fucking Oasis?
• 23:49
  Yeah, I want to go. I want to sing this.
• 23:51
  Or is it No, no you can't. There is a level to it.
• 23:54
  You have to read. You have to read what it is.
• 23:56
  You know, it's just someone who's pissed off being like, oh,
• 23:58
  I want to, I want to sing this. The benefit I always have, and
• 24:03
  this sounds really gloaty when I say it, but is that if you come
• 24:06
  up to me at 8:00 on an open mic, a half eight, let's say, you
• 24:11
  won't be able to play till like 11.
• 24:13
  And if you're if you're just out with your mates having a drink,
• 24:16
  you're not going to wait that long.
• 24:17
  Do you know, just to sing one song for your mates?
• 24:20
  Sometimes if it's a bit quiet, I'll be like, yeah, whatever,
• 24:23
  it's cool. You know, sometimes it's a bit
• 24:25
  of a laugh, but when it's like someone turns up and like, oh,
• 24:30
  I've got my songs on my phone. I want to connect it to the
• 24:33
  desk. I've got, I've got my, I've got
• 24:34
  the cable. I need it.
• 24:35
  I can, or I can air drop it to you or e-mail it to you.
• 24:39
  Then there's a level of professionality in it that shows
• 24:41
  that they actually are, you know, it's not just I want to,
• 24:45
  I'm out and I want to sing a song, you know, But at the same
• 24:49
  time, the, you know, sometimes it adds to the fun of the night.
• 24:55
  Do you know what I mean? Like.
• 24:56
  No, I know what you mean. I know what.
• 24:57
  You mean I have had people who have like, been like, oh, I want
• 25:00
  to sing a song. And I've been like, oh, all
• 25:03
  right, I'll get you one. As to this guy, we don't have
• 25:05
  many apps like, and they've been unreal.
• 25:07
  Like I've been like, oh, put my neck you actually.
• 25:10
  And they're like, oh, yeah, I'm just, you know, I sing but just
• 25:12
  don't really take it very seriously.
• 25:15
  And I'm like, Oh well, you probably should.
• 25:16
  Do you know? It's my.
• 25:20
  It's a battle balance, isn't it? I learned I bring this up
• 25:25
  because like it's happened a few times when we've done GC open
• 25:27
  mics and and elsewhere and I'm like, you know, like, like
• 25:32
  yourself, you gauge it. You just you see, you see.
• 25:35
  But I learned this the hard way one time when I was hosting at
• 25:39
  Shakespeare. And like it was good in the
• 25:44
  sense that, like we got like a leaving do some people, bunch
• 25:47
  people came in and great, you got an audience.
• 25:51
  But it is still an open mic. Yeah.
• 25:55
  And once we opened it up to yeah, you can sing these songs.
• 25:59
  Now it's just fucking karaoke for an hour.
• 26:02
  Yeah. And.
• 26:04
  I, I, I always try and like go like, OK, we can do one and
• 26:07
  then, you know, and then maybe your mates can do one as well.
• 26:11
  But then, then I'll be like, when it gets to that point,
• 26:14
  there's no one left to perform. Like none of the musicians who
• 26:18
  have come, I left to perform so the the bar will be shutting.
• 26:23
  So then it's a case of that. Do you want me?
• 26:26
  It's always late when it comes to that kind of thing.
• 26:29
  Well, the the, the thing I learned as well in that instance
• 26:31
  was that you have a difficulty of the great retaining control
• 26:37
  of the situation. So I remember we were trying to
• 26:41
  pull it back and just get back and, and play some stuff
• 26:43
  ourselves and, you know, just in case some musicians might come
• 26:47
  in because sometimes people just drop in the last minute to
• 26:50
  understand that no, no, no, it's not karaoke, It's an open mic.
• 26:53
  And I remember that the people that were there were getting
• 26:58
  kind of a bit snippy with us, a bit aggressive about that.
• 27:01
  And I was like, hey, we've let you sing like loads of stuff.
• 27:05
  It's not karaoke. It's an open mic, you know, And
• 27:09
  that I think is really important as an open mic host, a host of
• 27:14
  anything really, is to retain control and be like no, no, no,
• 27:17
  no, no. This is what we do.
• 27:18
  It comes back to like, you know, work like I worked in a bar for
• 27:22
  3 1/2 years, you know, managing and being like main, you know,
• 27:26
  DPS on a shift. You've got to maintain that
• 27:30
  control at all times or else it would just people would just
• 27:33
  take the Mickey out of you. You know what I mean?
• 27:35
  You know, as long as you can, you have that knowledge to be
• 27:39
  like, all right, no, you know, you've got to be stern with
• 27:43
  people, especially when they've had a drink, you know?
• 27:47
  You know, people have to be stern with me when I've had a
• 27:49
  drink. Do you know what I mean?
• 27:51
  So you're always both ways. But at the same time, you know,
• 27:54
  you have to kind of maintain that level of OK, nice one, but
• 28:00
  that's it, you know all. Right.
• 28:02
  What are the benefits in the drawbacks of hosting open mic
• 28:05
  nights? The benefits are I would say you
• 28:09
  get to meet loads of people, you get to play tunes all the time,
• 28:12
  you get to hear loads of new music, meet people.
• 28:16
  That. You know, random people you'll
• 28:19
  probably never have met if it wasn't.
• 28:22
  You know, for music, drawbacks are probably stress the hassle
• 28:31
  of it. Sometimes the the those days
• 28:34
  when you have like, your entire list drop out out of nowhere and
• 28:39
  then you're like scrambling to get people down.
• 28:42
  Did you ever just like perform for like an hour?
• 28:45
  Just you. I mean I could, but I feel
• 28:49
  egotistical when I do it. Yeah, if if no one showed up.
• 28:53
  Like, surely that's the only option, right?
• 28:55
  No, I know I've done it before. I have done it before.
• 28:57
  I just feel that me and me and this, this lad Tom used to, you
• 29:01
  know, if we got busy like quiet at the end, we just have a jam
• 29:04
  and play like losing covers at the end and that was always
• 29:07
  good. But I don't no one, no one else
• 29:10
  does it. No one else wants to do it.
• 29:12
  I don't know, like maybe, maybe they do.
• 29:15
  Maybe I'm just I'm not asking the right people, but.
• 29:19
  I I know what you mean. I because sometimes me and
• 29:22
  Croatia, we perform, we there's a song we perform together.
• 29:27
  She'll hop on. She tried.
• 29:29
  She's kind of made it a thing where it's kind of like, I don't
• 29:33
  know what the word would be. I mean truly open.
• 29:36
  Like you can kind of move on or not.
• 29:37
  Like if if there's people that want to collaborate, yeah, you
• 29:40
  know, so it's open in that sense.
• 29:42
  But the I think the problem with it is it's sometimes it gives
• 29:46
  that message of, oh, anyone can just hop on and whatever.
• 29:50
  And it's like, well, yeah, but it's still this music thing that
• 29:55
  we're doing. If you.
• 29:56
  Wanted, yeah. I think with that kind of thing
• 29:59
  where it's like more of an open, collaborative jam kind of thing,
• 30:04
  it's if someone says that to me, like, oh, would this guy want me
• 30:08
  to play drums or would he want me to play Mark Kahn with him?
• 30:12
  I'm always like wait till they finish this song and then ask,
• 30:16
  just ask, you know, what time I'm asking.
• 30:18
  And if they say no, then they say no.
• 30:20
  Like, you know, maybe they just want to play their own songs on
• 30:23
  their own, you know, maybe they want to have a little jam, you
• 30:27
  know, the grafting. Because we've got the kit, you
• 30:29
  know, we've got the drum kit and everything.
• 30:31
  It's a lot easier at the end if we are quiet.
• 30:33
  We can just all have the jam and just play some 12 bar Blues and
• 30:38
  you know, and all the old guys love it.
• 30:41
  Yeah, I mean it, it goes back to what we were saying before,
• 30:44
  isn't it? You, you, you gauge it a little
• 30:46
  bit. I, I, I do think that it's a
• 30:52
  good way if the hosts play, I think the hosts should always
• 30:57
  play. I always open to the mood of
• 31:00
  what we are doing. And it's only and, well, not
• 31:04
  just set the mood, but I've turned around to like so many
• 31:09
  people in the past and been like, oh, do you want to go on
• 31:11
  1st? And they go first?
• 31:15
  You mean, you mean like now? And I'm like, yeah.
• 31:17
  And like, and I'm like, OK, that's why I go on 1st.
• 31:21
  And then no one has to open it because people get very nervous
• 31:26
  about opening things. You know the show.
• 31:29
  People get snippy about timings. Let's talk about that for a
• 31:33
  second, because I wanted to kind of talk about pet peeves a
• 31:36
  little bit. People do, people do get snippy
• 31:39
  about timings. People get some people just want
• 31:42
  to go on at a certain time. But the the rule, there is one
• 31:45
  rule I have and it's you will probably, you will more and more
• 31:51
  than likely be on in the order of when people get there.
• 31:55
  Yeah, that's just the be all. If you have to get a train, if
• 32:00
  you've got work the next day, if you can't make it till a certain
• 32:03
  time but you know you need to be gone by a certain time, then
• 32:07
  just talk to me and we'll figure it out.
• 32:09
  And it it's easy. The worst one is when you go,
• 32:14
  oh, you guys decide when you want to go on and you'll go.
• 32:19
  It's just easier to, you know, to just do it that way.
• 32:22
  That's the best way you will ever do it.
• 32:24
  You know, I've, I've tried a few different things.
• 32:27
  I've tried one where I was like pick a time when you want to go
• 32:30
  on. And then people started being
• 32:32
  like, I want to go on late. And then we'd start up at like
• 32:35
  half eight because no one wanted to go on early.
• 32:39
  But then everyone would turn up at like 9:00.
• 32:42
  And then we were really struggling to get people on,
• 32:44
  like on time for the clock, for the end of it, just in the order
• 32:49
  of when it's on and tell people it starts an hour before it
• 32:52
  actually does. And this is something I've
• 32:55
  learned as well. You've got to be very firm with
• 32:57
  people because she does it really, really well.
• 32:59
  I'm a bit, I don't know, I sometimes I'm firm.
• 33:04
  Like I remember there was a guy recently, fucking hell, he came
• 33:11
  on and he did, he played, he did like a Limp Bizkit cover.
• 33:18
  He said he was a guitarist, but he wanted to try vocals.
• 33:21
  And I was like, OK, cool. You know, his energy was a bit
• 33:25
  all like he was one of these people who was just up in my
• 33:28
  face at the desk every 5 minutes.
• 33:30
  And yes, it's really, I'll just say this for anyone.
• 33:34
  If you go to an open mic, please do not get up in the face of the
• 33:38
  like if they if I'm doing sound. Right.
• 33:41
  I think, I think you know, in the face of any sound engineer,
• 33:44
  it was a bad thing. It's just like I'm doing a job
• 33:47
  here. It's not a fucking bar, you
• 33:49
  know, it's not Well, it's do you mean you're doing a job and.
• 33:53
  The other thing you got to think about, Christian, is that if you
• 33:56
  get up in the face of the sound engineer, that sound engineer
• 33:59
  dictates how you sound out there.
• 34:01
  Oh yeah. You know well they don't like
• 34:05
  you. They might.
• 34:07
  This is the thing he he came in with that energy and his friends
• 34:12
  were kind of annoying me a little bit, but you know, I
• 34:14
  still put them on professional. He absolutely butchers this
• 34:19
  song. And I'm like, well, let you know
• 34:21
  he, he's trying it is what it is, right?
• 34:25
  But I remember as me and Kay used to look at each other and
• 34:28
  it's like, OK, you know, move on.
• 34:32
  And then then began that every 5 minutes like a like, oh, can I
• 34:38
  get on and do this? Can I get on do this?
• 34:40
  And I'm like, I'll just wait, we're doing XYZ.
• 34:44
  He kept asking incessantly who's on next?
• 34:48
  Who's on, who's on last That that particular night, I was
• 34:51
  headlining it to do my album and stuff.
• 34:54
  And I said that I was like, me, I'm headlining it, I'm closing
• 34:57
  it. And I said it like at least
• 34:58
  three times. And at this point I've just had
• 35:01
  enough of him being up in my face.
• 35:03
  And you know, and it's a busy night and you know, there's too
• 35:06
  many people. You know that how he is when
• 35:08
  there's there's a million people around the desk and you're just
• 35:10
  like, alright, can we get some space, please?
• 35:11
  And that's really what I'm driving up with this is this
• 35:15
  personal space. But he came up after doing all
• 35:19
  that and having done a bad performance and he's like, oh,
• 35:23
  can I do fucking rolling or break stuff by Limp Bizkit?
• 35:27
  And I was like, absolutely not. No, I just straight out.
• 35:31
  I didn't even ask how he's. I was just like, no.
• 35:34
  It's a, it's a level, isn't it? Like there were people who were
• 35:38
  just so full on with it and like constantly like, you know, I've,
• 35:45
  I've had it where people are like, oh, can I go up again?
• 35:47
  And I'm like, probably not like, you know, you, you've already
• 35:51
  played, everyone else needs to play as well.
• 35:53
  Do you know what I mean? This is, it's a level of a
• 35:55
  balance between everyone, isn't it?
• 35:57
  You know, you can't, I can't just let someone play.
• 36:00
  Someone will turn around up to me and be like, oh, can I play 4
• 36:02
  songs? And I'd be like, if I give one
• 36:05
  person 4 songs, then everyone wants 4 songs.
• 36:09
  Even if your 4 songs are like 10 minutes in total, another
• 36:15
  person's 4 songs could be 25, do you know what I mean?
• 36:19
  And then if it goes over on a 25 minute, if someone does a 25
• 36:22
  minute set, I'm, I'm running late, you know, I've seen it
• 36:26
  happen. I probably have to turn around
• 36:28
  to people and be like, can you do 2 songs because this person's
• 36:32
  asked for more? Do you know what I mean?
• 36:33
  Like. It's all about.
• 36:36
  A balance, you know, you get 3 songs and that that's, that's
• 36:40
  that's the rule, you know, 3 songs or 15 minutes.
• 36:44
  So I got a name drop. I'm sorry so pre U Peaky
• 36:51
  Blinders. The only time I ever played pre
• 36:53
  to be clear, this is pre Michael.
• 36:57
  OK, so they do an open mic at peak blinders in Manchester.
• 37:01
  Setup is nice. It's cool, you know, but before
• 37:06
  Michael, they, I mean, it was professional in so much as like,
• 37:11
  you know, they were, we're trying to present it a certain
• 37:14
  way. And it's like, yeah, they've got
• 37:15
  a good set up here. There's, there's good sound.
• 37:17
  It's you know, it's cool. But they and they told us right
• 37:20
  off the bat, they're like, it's late, it's going to be late.
• 37:23
  I'm like, yeah, fine. They said 1015 minutes, no
• 37:25
  problem. Now herein lies the problem
• 37:30
  right where I don't think that they were ready at that point.
• 37:32
  And obviously later on they got you and I was like, that's a
• 37:35
  solid idea. You've got someone with
• 37:37
  experience there who knows how to run it and, and how to be
• 37:40
  firm with things and how to adjust things and so on.
• 37:44
  At that point, you know they didn't have that experience,
• 37:46
  which is fine. However, there's certain things
• 37:49
  that you've got to just nip in the bud straight away.
• 37:52
  So for example, this guy comes on, everyone's running late.
• 37:56
  We're all waiting to play. It's getting longer and longer
• 37:59
  and longer and this guy comes on.
• 38:03
  I told this story on the show before, but I just have to tell
• 38:05
  you. I think I might have told you in
• 38:07
  person, but I'll tell you anyway.
• 38:10
  He plays two originals, a fairly longish 5 minutes each, which
• 38:17
  you know, it's 3 songs for 15 minutes.
• 38:19
  That's pretty standard. I can see he's got some like
• 38:22
  family in the audience and stuff.
• 38:24
  He's doing this regularly. He's younger, he's younger, so
• 38:27
  you know, you let certain things go, but he plays.
• 38:35
  There's this Ed Sheeran song that's like really long.
• 38:38
  I think it's on the first album. Oh.
• 38:42
  Yeah, but like, he plays that, but like an extended version.
• 38:46
  And I shit you not, he's playing for 20 minutes.
• 38:49
  Yeah. And it was like we were all just
• 38:51
  joking and looking at our watches.
• 38:53
  Like, come on, mate, what the fuck?
• 38:55
  And like, by the time the hosts eventually come round to us, I'm
• 38:59
  incensed. I'm so annoyed.
• 39:01
  We're all annoyed. If I was supposed to be on at
• 39:05
  like 9:45 or whatever it was, I think I didn't go on stage till
• 39:09
  like 11:15 or something. It was.
• 39:12
  And they gave us a free drink and they were cool about it.
• 39:15
  But I just remember thinking like, yeah, I'm not coming back
• 39:17
  here. There's there's it's one of
• 39:19
  those like sometimes I've, I've, I've muted someone before wow
• 39:25
  down because I said to him, you can do 2 songs and he played
• 39:31
  three and I was like, we you've literally got 5 minutes till the
• 39:34
  call, like close. And I was like, do 2 quick songs
• 39:37
  and then that's it. They rang the bell during his
• 39:40
  second song because they were closed and he went to play a
• 39:43
  third one. And I was like, mate, you're not
• 39:44
  playing a third one. And he's like, I can do whatever
• 39:46
  I want. And I was like, I turned him
• 39:48
  down. And then he, you know, fell over
• 39:52
  and I was like this night and the other was ruined.
• 39:54
  But there's a level to it of turning someone down is you
• 39:58
  don't know how they'll react, react to it.
• 40:01
  It could bear like, well, you are you, you know, and if
• 40:04
  there's you know if the. The bigger bloke or whatever at
• 40:08
  all looks strong, you know, I'm not fighting a grown ass person,
• 40:15
  you know, regardless of who they are.
• 40:18
  But there is also a level of like, you know, if you're
• 40:20
  running late, just be like, by the way, we're running late, you
• 40:25
  know? Yeah.
• 40:27
  I mean, then most people will be sound with it, you know?
• 40:29
  It's it's the adjusting thing. I mean, like you said, like
• 40:31
  you're pretty strict on the whole 3 songs 15 minutes thing.
• 40:34
  We're strict as well. But you know, if it's a quieter
• 40:37
  night, you give more people. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:40
  But like as you said, the rule is established.
• 40:42
  So if you, OK, first two acts got 4 songs, then everyone's
• 40:45
  going to kind of expect that. And it's like you need to
• 40:47
  deliver on that. But yeah, I I've luckily we've
• 40:53
  not had to mute anyone yet, but. Yeah, once.
• 40:58
  But it's like we've had plenty of situations where, you know,
• 41:03
  people are trying to get on the fucking stage and it's like, get
• 41:05
  off the stage. Did we?
• 41:07
  There was something we had recently.
• 41:10
  It was a bit of a learning curve for us.
• 41:12
  And I remember turns Kaishen. I was like, right, new rule,
• 41:16
  unless they're invited on the stage by you or me, then not
• 41:19
  getting on the fucking stage. Because what happened was there
• 41:21
  was someone who was invited and they were singing and that was
• 41:25
  fine. And then they brought this guy
• 41:27
  who was like bad energy. You know, sometimes that someone
• 41:31
  just walks in and like, I had one last night where he was just
• 41:35
  shouting and just being kind of annoying and being up in
• 41:39
  people's face. And he's like, oh, played
• 41:41
  fucking Razorlight, played the Arctic Monkeys.
• 41:44
  And I'm like, bro, no. What a request never said Give
• 41:51
  us some Razorlight not to not to take why are?
• 41:54
  You hearing the razor like that, I think you'd love it.
• 41:56
  They're a great band, but just just, you know.
• 42:00
  It's a deep car. I don't.
• 42:01
  Want wonder why I want razor like.
• 42:04
  To be fair, like I, I was thinking like if I'd have known
• 42:06
  it, I would have played it because I fucking love.
• 42:08
  But like when people say I'll play Oasis, I'm like, yeah, go
• 42:10
  fuck yourself. Like that's kind of the the
• 42:12
  thing, isn't it? The only reason I say that is
• 42:15
  nothing against Oasis. I like Oasis, but kind of like a
• 42:19
  running joke I suppose that open mics is yeah oh, play some
• 42:24
  Oasis, play Wonderwall, played fucking Free Bird or whatever.
• 42:28
  Yeah. But yeah, OK.
• 42:30
  The one, the one thing that I, I always tell people when it comes
• 42:34
  to like stage is don't leave a microphone on.
• 42:39
  Yeah, Oh, a for just general sound, good, good practice.
• 42:44
  Just don't leave a microphone on, but B does it means that
• 42:47
  someone can't run on the stage and just start chatting because
• 42:50
  you give you give someone a platform like a a elevated voice
• 42:54
  sometimes and they'll just say whatever the fuck they want and
• 42:57
  that can go one of you know that can go very many bad ways if
• 43:01
  they decide to spew some random garbage that they want to say.
• 43:06
  I this reminded me of something, actually, two things.
• 43:08
  One, there was a guy who got on stage, I think it was that
• 43:13
  aggressive guy I told you about. And he was trying to angle
• 43:18
  himself and like, and this girl was trying to push him away.
• 43:20
  And then eventually one of us just drags him off stage.
• 43:23
  And it's like, ah, so we set that rule.
• 43:26
  But I remember one time I was doing Shakespeare and it's like
• 43:31
  American dudes there. And he's like, oh, can I, I have
• 43:37
  a joke? Can I tell a joke?
• 43:39
  And I was like, what's the joke? And then I'm busy do it like,
• 43:45
  but I'm not fit. I just feel like something's
• 43:48
  because like you said, you don't know what they're going to say.
• 43:50
  And the way he was framing it is like, oh, I don't know, it's
• 43:53
  it's a bit controversial. I'm like soon as he says that
• 43:57
  I'm like and I'm just like with me.
• 44:02
  I'm never rude but sometimes if you're putting off dodgy energy
• 44:07
  I might not get around. I might focus on what I'm doing
• 44:10
  and not pay attention to you for a bit.
• 44:12
  Yeah. Until it becomes a bigger
• 44:14
  problem and eventually I get some time and I was like, oh, do
• 44:20
  you want to get on stage now? And he's just basically like,
• 44:23
  oh, no, the moment, the moment has passed.
• 44:26
  And I'm like, in my head, I'm just thinking, thanks, fuck for
• 44:29
  that. Like he's just, yeah, I wasn't
• 44:34
  annoyed. But he's kind of a bit like, and
• 44:35
  I'm like, bro, you just want to like piss off all these people.
• 44:39
  Like, it's one thing if you get on stage, you do comedy and it,
• 44:42
  you know, you're doing your thing fine.
• 44:43
  But it's like to come on stage, say something you know is going
• 44:48
  to piss people off. Hopefully I've never had
• 44:51
  anything where anyone's said anything, but but there is, you
• 44:58
  know, You know, if you turn up and if you see the open mic
• 45:03
  sound and you come down and come down with a guitar and go, oh, I
• 45:06
  want to play a song, I'll go, yeah, no worries.
• 45:09
  You could play any song in the entire world.
• 45:12
  It could be the most racist song in the entire world.
• 45:15
  I don't know that, you know, if you do that, you get muted, you
• 45:19
  know? That's fair, yeah.
• 45:21
  You know, it's sometimes you do like comedy.
• 45:28
  One of my friends, Dan, he's a stand up comedian and he takes
• 45:31
  the piss out of his own, you know, homosexuality, his
• 45:34
  sexuality and you know, his identity and stuff.
• 45:38
  But if you walked in sometimes you'd be like, what the fuck is
• 45:42
  he going on about? Basically, you don't see the
• 45:45
  whole picture. But luckily I've never had
• 45:50
  anyone actively, you know, be bad.
• 45:55
  That's really problematic is the word, you know, which is.
• 46:01
  But because, you know, there is, there is always the chance for
• 46:04
  that to happen. Isn't that?
• 46:06
  Yeah, I, I, I. Think the setups we've got
• 46:10
  inhibit it to some extent you know the mute buttons there for
• 46:14
  a reason you know you'd be firm. You know, if you're, if you're
• 46:19
  watching this, you listen to this and you're thinking of
• 46:21
  hosting or you're just getting into it or whatever, don't be
• 46:24
  afraid to be firm and just put your foot down sometimes because
• 46:28
  honestly, you'll thank yourself later and.
• 46:31
  And you'll always have the backing of a venue 100%.
• 46:34
  That's that's the good thing about it is that if that I know
• 46:38
  for a fact that probably any of the places I run, if I go, that
• 46:43
  person's barred, they go, OK, no worries, you know, they'll go
• 46:47
  why? But then you know.
• 46:50
  Yeah, there's been a few, a few times when I've had to like pick
• 46:53
  people out and and say to like the bar stuff.
• 46:55
  I'm like, listen, can we just get get rid of him?
• 46:59
  You know? Well, sometimes, Carl, you
• 47:00
  should just goes up to them and just wrap in their face like,
• 47:03
  Hey, listen, show some fucking respect, man.
• 47:05
  And I'm like every time she's like that, I'm like, come on,
• 47:08
  man, You're like, don't put us in a fight.
• 47:11
  I'm not saying. But no, she's she's really good
• 47:14
  at it because she's respectful about how she does it and stuff.
• 47:17
  And they listen and I think they're a little bit afraid as
• 47:20
  well. All right, one final question
• 47:23
  about open mics, because I don't just want to fucking talk about
• 47:25
  open mics. I'm sure you don't either.
• 47:29
  Craziest, weirdest thing you've ever seen at an open mic?
• 47:32
  Bet you got some stories. Craziest, weirdest thing.
• 47:42
  I like crazy. Not weird, but crazy.
• 47:45
  Like it's a seven piece brass band coming down and being like,
• 47:48
  want to sing. I had a barbershop quartet.
• 47:50
  Oh, sick. Who were really good like they
• 47:53
  were both really good, but I was for the for the brass band.
• 47:57
  They were like, can you mic us up?
• 47:58
  And I went, I have two microphones, I can put them in
• 48:02
  front you all playing brass instruments, you're going to be
• 48:05
  loud. I.
• 48:05
  Was going to say you don't need to, yeah.
• 48:07
  A lot of the time. And then the barbershop quartet
• 48:09
  all sang into one microphone. It was really good.
• 48:12
  I was had a rapper come down to an open mic and he it was isn't,
• 48:19
  it was before the pandemic. So it was one of my old, old
• 48:22
  ones. But he started rapping about
• 48:24
  like really grotesque things like sexual acts.
• 48:29
  The. Bartender running off coming up
• 48:32
  to me and be like, he can't say that I'm here, Michael, mute
• 48:36
  him. And I had to mute him and I was
• 48:38
  like, oh, I'm sorry mate. They want me to mute you.
• 48:40
  And he's like, what's what's the problem?
• 48:42
  And they were like, you can't say that on a microphone.
• 48:45
  Like, it's just not that venue. Jesus.
• 48:49
  Like, what was he saying? Pretty grotesque.
• 48:51
  I'm not going to repeat it, but. No, it's fine.
• 48:53
  But just I'm just thinking like, how grotesque that you it.
• 48:57
  Was just, it was just like lewd sexual acts, you know, But it
• 49:04
  was just, it was just a bit out of nowhere as well.
• 49:06
  Like anyway, what else? If he get pissed you off maybe
• 49:14
  or just the the disturbing or just a bit mental I don't know.
• 49:20
  We see everyone who plays is more or less a musician.
• 49:25
  Like the rate of like musicians to like comedy or, you know,
• 49:32
  magic or spoken word is is ridiculous.
• 49:35
  Like, you know, there are some people who just like, like some
• 49:42
  people just, I did have one guy and he was like a comedian, but
• 49:46
  he was like really anti comedy. Like it was really like he was
• 49:52
  funny because he was making jokes that weren't funny at all.
• 49:55
  And he had a stage presence that was like completely not a stage
• 49:59
  presence. Like he'd just be pointing out
• 50:03
  to random people in the audience and be like you.
• 50:07
  And he'd just be like going on about like how shit his life
• 50:11
  was. It was funny, yeah.
• 50:16
  I I found it funny and it was, it was good, but I was a bit,
• 50:20
  like I said to him, I was like well done because everyone else
• 50:23
  performs, been a musician and I know it's not easy to come in
• 50:27
  and, and he was like, mate, I was fucking shitting myself.
• 50:31
  We had a comedian last night and it was he.
• 50:36
  He told some funny jokes, but yeah, I can tell he's still
• 50:40
  holding this quite. He's he's definitely got
• 50:42
  something there. But I could tell even he was
• 50:43
  second guessing himself. And I've got to say this.
• 50:46
  I respect the hell out of comedians.
• 50:49
  I it's so brutal. Like what?
• 50:52
  What? When you're dying, you're dying.
• 50:54
  Yeah, you know, because with music, you just keep playing
• 50:57
  bucket, you know? But like, like, for instance, in
• 51:01
  the first song I did in my set last night, my strap came off
• 51:04
  and it can and I and I literally, I just, yeah, you
• 51:07
  just laugh it off. I just put it and I was like
• 51:10
  straight across, boom, yeah, you know, and you and you got it
• 51:14
  back, you know, you laugh it off.
• 51:15
  But like with comedy, if there's no laughs, you're not laughing
• 51:19
  that off. No, you do.
• 51:21
  You're just dying. Yeah, no, I will say that
• 51:24
  comedy, especially when you're doing it in like a non comedy
• 51:28
  space. Yeah, what?
• 51:33
  OK, I. Maybe it's more brutal if you're
• 51:35
  actually like a comedy event and no one.
• 51:38
  Else I've seen it. I dude, I I don't know if I've
• 51:42
  told this story before on the show.
• 51:44
  OK, I'm in London. It's like the different life 10
• 51:49
  year plus years ago. It's a comedy night and it's a
• 51:53
  private event for us. It's a work event and there's
• 51:57
  three comedians there. The final act was great.
• 52:00
  He was on like mock the week and share.
• 52:02
  I was like, wow, fuck yeah, the one before him, Great.
• 52:06
  The guy that opened it, right? He's Scottish.
• 52:11
  I'm like, oh, it's missionary work.
• 52:12
  Come on, Scotsman. Like they're fucking hilarious.
• 52:15
  Like they just, they just got, you know, they got their way
• 52:17
  about them, Scott, Scottish people.
• 52:19
  And they're they're a good crack and they're just great.
• 52:23
  But this guy was like Captain Insecurity and we just didn't
• 52:29
  find his jokes funny. He really seemed to have a hard
• 52:32
  on for Hitler and trying to make make this Hitler joke work and
• 52:35
  it just was not landing. And normally Hitler jokes, you
• 52:38
  can get a pretty good laugh out of that if you tell it right.
• 52:41
  But he just he's just killing it.
• 52:44
  And there's a guy who's in the audience as a manager who's just
• 52:49
  kind of like laughing, but in a like, oh, fuck, this is terrible
• 52:52
  way right. And we're all just awkward and
• 52:54
  laugh and it's like, Oh, this is shit.
• 52:58
  And he gets annoyed, like he gets aggressive and he goes,
• 53:02
  what's problem with you fucking baldy?
• 53:04
  Like, you know, you're not laughing and like without
• 53:06
  skipping a beat, he just turns around and he's just like,
• 53:08
  you're not funny, mate. I mean, and he's keep attacking
• 53:13
  him and we'll just like laughing like.
• 53:16
  And then I think he said something like, yeah, thank you
• 53:19
  very much. You've been the worst crowd
• 53:20
  ever. Fuck you, a bunch of cunts and
• 53:22
  walks off. But we'll, we'll just clap and
• 53:24
  cheer like. Yeah, I'm glad I'm not a
• 53:30
  comedian. Yeah, me too.
• 53:31
  Brutal. I'm.
• 53:32
  Glad I chose something that, hey, I'm good at.
• 53:37
  I could play a guitar. I can't tell a joke, you know?
• 53:42
  People said to me that I should do comedy in the past and I'm
• 53:44
  like, are you mad? I'm like, I can tell.
• 53:47
  I can be sarcastic. I've got a few dad jokes.
• 53:50
  Comedy is a whole other thing. Like it's a whole, it's a
• 53:55
  psychology thing. You've got to be really good at
• 53:58
  improv. You got to know how you know,
• 53:59
  you read the room with the audience, you know, it's
• 54:02
  observational comedy. Fuck me.
• 54:04
  Like I remember the first comedian I saw play at DC.
• 54:09
  She. It was like very like feminist
• 54:13
  gender kind of stuff, which is fine.
• 54:15
  You know, this sport, sport, you know, like I'm a feminist, this
• 54:19
  is great. But when it's like very, you're
• 54:24
  pushing a certain thing, you're like 4 people for this, for
• 54:27
  that. It can, it can go one or two
• 54:30
  ways. You know, if you've got people
• 54:31
  in the audience that are for it and they're like, you know, then
• 54:34
  yeah. But it felt kind of like we had
• 54:37
  to laugh because, you know, if you didn't laugh, then you're
• 54:40
  piece of shit kind of vibes. And it's like, well, no, like if
• 54:44
  it's not funny, it's not funny. Kind of, yeah, it's kind of that
• 54:48
  kind of vibes. And I was like, well, you know,
• 54:52
  and, and there wasn't any aggression there, but that
• 54:54
  that's kind of how it felt. And I felt like a lot of the
• 54:55
  time in comedy venues, you're almost like primed, conditioned
• 55:00
  to laugh, same way that like you're primed in condition to
• 55:04
  clap, you know? But you don't have to.
• 55:09
  If you didn't enjoy that, you don't have to.
• 55:12
  It's like, it's like when when I go to like the pub on a Friday
• 55:16
  night and there's some bloke playing some covers and I'm
• 55:20
  finished playing a song and I'll just be like, why am I?
• 55:24
  No one else is coughing, but I'm coughing like, Oh yeah, just
• 55:29
  natural reaction, you know what I mean?
• 55:33
  Yeah. All right.
• 55:35
  Let's switch it up, man. Where does your musical journey
• 55:38
  begin? Let's go to the beginning.
• 55:40
  Where does it begin? Yeah, OK.
• 55:44
  I had guitar lessons when I was in primary school and through
• 55:51
  like primary school onwards when I lived in Scotland, in
• 55:57
  Aberdeen, I started playing, just playing guitar, writing,
• 56:01
  trying to write some songs. So I thought, oh, if Bob Dylan
• 56:06
  can do it, I can do it as always, you know, as everyone
• 56:09
  does, you know, And then realising quickly that Bob Dylan
• 56:12
  is a gifted songwriter and I was not, you know, but it was kind
• 56:19
  of, you know, after that just kind of was like, you know what,
• 56:24
  I enjoy doing music, I just want to do it.
• 56:26
  So then I started doing like losing Leicester for a bit, like
• 56:31
  did a course to try and get onto to get like a stepping point to
• 56:34
  a degree. And I did a degree, went to
• 56:37
  Manchester, I mean been there for 9 years.
• 56:44
  What's music taught you about life?
• 56:48
  Music as in like writing music or just music in general?
• 56:52
  Everything what comes to mind? That life is a bit of a blog,
• 56:56
  ain't? That the truth?
• 57:00
  Yeah, No. No, like it's good.
• 57:02
  I like, you know, I enjoy life, but sometimes you just, you do a
• 57:10
  lot of work for very little, you know, especially in a creative
• 57:14
  field, you know, you know, I, you know, I could, I could do
• 57:22
  implement a lot of the, the jobs that I do on a daily basis into
• 57:27
  a more corporate atmosphere and make a lot more money out of it.
• 57:31
  But then I wouldn't be able to do this on A2 or 1:00 on a
• 57:37
  Thursday. I know exactly what you mean
• 57:39
  because like, if I wanted to, I could make money doing like, say
• 57:44
  covers gigs now to eternity. But I don't want to do that.
• 57:49
  Like I want to write and play my own music.
• 57:51
  I don't mind playing covers. I play a couple of here and
• 57:53
  there, but it's a very different thing when you show up and you
• 57:57
  do it at venues or corporate, you know, like, yeah, you're
• 58:02
  getting paid. But like, you know, money isn't
• 58:05
  everything. It's, it's how you're doing
• 58:09
  things. Like I am so just overjoyed that
• 58:13
  I'm earning money doing the sound, doing hosting, playing
• 58:16
  like it's, it's living the fucking dream.
• 58:18
  And yeah, it's on a small level, but like you can build from
• 58:22
  that. Yeah, of course.
• 58:23
  You know, like you can always do other things that that you're
• 58:26
  like, you know, like mix him mastering various different
• 58:31
  musically related jobs, you know, but I will say, I know,
• 58:36
  like, I will say, I know a lot of people who are full time
• 58:39
  musicians who do 1 covers a weekend and that's it.
• 58:43
  It's M for the week. So they do that one hour and a
• 58:48
  half of covers, get paid 200, four, £100.
• 58:52
  That's their money for the week. And that enables them to do 6
• 58:55
  days of doing whatever they want, you know, musically.
• 59:00
  And I was, I would say that's a, that's a very, you know, an hour
• 59:05
  and a half of just doing something someone else tells you
• 59:08
  to, you know. I mean, it's it's performant.
• 59:13
  Yeah. I've always looked at it like
• 59:14
  that, even when it's just been only covers.
• 59:17
  It's, it's just if it enables you to have like a, if it
• 59:22
  enables you to have the creative time, you know, because let's
• 59:28
  say you do 1 1/2 hours of covers in a week, if it gives you time
• 59:32
  to do 100 hours of making your own music, doing whatever the
• 59:37
  hell you want, then I think that's worth it.
• 59:40
  Yeah, plus it's something you love, like.
• 59:42
  Yeah, you're still playing music.
• 59:43
  You know, regardless of being covers, you're still playing.
• 59:46
  Songs I look a bit like that with with the open minds like I
• 59:49
  love. I don't get me wrong, I love
• 59:50
  doing it, but I don't necessarily want to be, you
• 59:54
  know, a sound engineer as a career.
• 59:57
  I'm not like against it. I think it would be cool.
• 1:00:01
  I just know there's all this other stuff that I, I love to do
• 1:00:04
  and then there's other things that I, you know, I enjoy to do.
• 1:00:08
  Whereas that when I look at like doing hospitality, which I still
• 1:00:10
  have to do here and there, I'm like, I don't enjoy this, this,
• 1:00:14
  this is like something I forced myself to do.
• 1:00:17
  Yeah, you got to pay the bills. We all, you know, sadly, we all
• 1:00:21
  have to pay the bills. So at what point were you able
• 1:00:28
  to, because I think it's interesting you basically you've
• 1:00:30
  managed to craft a life where this is it, you, you earn money
• 1:00:35
  for music and this is what you do.
• 1:00:38
  How did you kind of craft that life and was there like a point
• 1:00:44
  where you sort of took a leap and go right, It's fully music,
• 1:00:49
  It's sink or swim took us through that.
• 1:00:53
  So after the pandemic, after things started opening, I ran
• 1:00:58
  like 2 of Mike's. I ran a few with my friend who
• 1:01:04
  kind of I would do the sound and she would host and then, you
• 1:01:08
  know, like that kind of got me into a lot of places because she
• 1:01:12
  stopped doing them. So then it was kind of like,
• 1:01:15
  well, I'll just do it. But it just kind of built and
• 1:01:20
  built because people were kind of seeing, oh, you know, this is
• 1:01:23
  doing well and another venue like, oh, we should we try it?
• 1:01:26
  You know, I've, I've, I've hosted events at very many
• 1:01:29
  places across Manchester. You know, some places work, some
• 1:01:32
  places don't. But the point when I realised
• 1:01:37
  was when that like I should do music full time was when I was
• 1:01:41
  working in a bar. I was taken off like 4-3 days a
• 1:01:46
  week. They would given it me somehow.
• 1:01:49
  I don't know how, but then I was making more money out of
• 1:01:53
  running, doing music than I was out at the pub.
• 1:01:56
  And it was like a like a level that I could live on, you know,
• 1:02:00
  and I was like, you know what, what's the point?
• 1:02:03
  Like I may as well, I may as well just do music then what's
• 1:02:06
  the point? And like I would, they were
• 1:02:08
  giving me every like Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday day
• 1:02:13
  times like twice a month. And I was just thinking like, I
• 1:02:18
  don't really know why they're giving me all this time.
• 1:02:20
  I well, I, I think I know why. I think it's because my own
• 1:02:23
  manager was like, you're doing what you want to do, you're
• 1:02:27
  making steps into doing this full time and I want to let you
• 1:02:31
  do it. I think, you know, so fair play
• 1:02:33
  to him, you know, for doing that.
• 1:02:36
  But when it really got to the point of like, I'm actually
• 1:02:40
  making more money out of music than I am working a pop a bar
• 1:02:45
  job and I can live off that, that income from music.
• 1:02:50
  And I was like, you know what? May as well, you know.
• 1:02:56
  It's just, it's just, I guess for me, it's always inspiring to
• 1:03:01
  hear that because I've been working at this for years now
• 1:03:04
  trying to make creative stuff for my living.
• 1:03:07
  And I'm not quite there yet, but there's been these recent
• 1:03:11
  stepping stones and it's. I've been self-employed for
• 1:03:14
  about 2 1/2 years and I will say sometimes it's really good.
• 1:03:19
  Sometimes, you know, you're living and you're like, yeah,
• 1:03:22
  doing loads of work, loads of money coming in, I'm living
• 1:03:25
  great. You know, I can afford to do a
• 1:03:27
  one. And then sometimes it all just
• 1:03:29
  drops way out nowhere and you're like, Oh no, OK, I've got to
• 1:03:33
  live frugally. I can't, you know, I can't go
• 1:03:36
  and go to the pub for a pint of mate, you know, I've got to be
• 1:03:39
  careful. I've got to pay my rent.
• 1:03:41
  I've got to do this. You know what I mean?
• 1:03:42
  Like I went in having saved up money just in case.
• 1:03:48
  Do you know what I mean? I'm, you know, which is always a
• 1:03:51
  benefit. Just make sure you got a little
• 1:03:53
  bit of money behind you, you know, to kind of, and I'm not,
• 1:03:58
  you know, if, if all the venues that I run events at right now
• 1:04:03
  turn around to me and went, that's it.
• 1:04:05
  Bye. I would just go have to work
• 1:04:07
  somewhere else. I would just go and have to work
• 1:04:09
  in a bar. I just have to go and do you
• 1:04:11
  know what I mean? Yeah.
• 1:04:13
  I know what you mean because I over the years, like yourself,
• 1:04:17
  I'm self-employed and also doing a 0 hours contract.
• 1:04:22
  So I stay flexible and there's been times when I've relied more
• 1:04:26
  on acting work. Other times when, you know,
• 1:04:30
  maybe I was earning online doing somewhat all right, never enough
• 1:04:36
  to live on, but like, you know, maybe it meant that there was a
• 1:04:38
  few less shifts then, you know, but fuck, even, you know,
• 1:04:44
  hospitality, man, there's like quiet periods.
• 1:04:47
  Like I'm anticipating one this summer and I'm like, oh, I'm
• 1:04:50
  going to do, I'm going to do. And it's I think for anyone
• 1:04:53
  who's thinking of doing this, the take Michael's advice, like
• 1:04:57
  save up money, always have rainy day fun or invest your money.
• 1:05:02
  Do that make your money work for you and all that and just have
• 1:05:06
  options, you know, keep things like I always keep the zero
• 1:05:10
  hours contract even if I don't work there, I'll pop my head in,
• 1:05:14
  give my availability, make sure I'm around, you know, and just
• 1:05:18
  lean on things have like different egg baskets, so to
• 1:05:21
  speak. I.
• 1:05:22
  Think the most important thing as well for for it is to not
• 1:05:25
  rely on like other people for helping you.
• 1:05:31
  Do you know what I mean? Like I know people who will be
• 1:05:34
  like, oh, if, if I got made redundant, my parents would help
• 1:05:39
  me out and stuff. But you know that I'm from a
• 1:05:43
  work, very, a working class background, you know what I
• 1:05:45
  mean? Like I'll ask my, I remember
• 1:05:48
  being at uni and asking my mum, can you lend me some money for
• 1:05:52
  some food? Because my student loans not
• 1:05:54
  coming, it's coming a week late. And mum was like OK, well you
• 1:05:56
  have £20, we have to pay it back next week because I can't afford
• 1:05:59
  to, you know, that's come out lucky.
• 1:06:01
  You know. I remember asking my dad and
• 1:06:04
  he's just, he was like, no, you know, beyond, you know, it's,
• 1:06:11
  there's even if you've got like, I don't know, a safety net of
• 1:06:18
  family and stuff, you can't always guarantee that it's going
• 1:06:22
  to be that, you know? Yeah, I think it's sensible to
• 1:06:28
  have that mindset and you can only really ever rely on
• 1:06:32
  yourself and things change. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:06:35
  Like I look at things like what I'm doing now and I'm like this
• 1:06:38
  might not last forever. Anticipate that.
• 1:06:40
  So I'm keeping it as like an extra thing, you know, and you
• 1:06:44
  know, we'll weigh it up. We'll keep evaluating.
• 1:06:47
  And as you said, like living frugally.
• 1:06:49
  I think it's even if you're you've got more money, still be
• 1:06:53
  sensible. Budget it all got.
• 1:06:56
  You know, I've been budgeting since 2019 and it's.
• 1:06:58
  Don't don't buy pints for 7 LB. Oh my God, yeah, it adds up.
• 1:07:02
  Then it's crazy. If you want to go to the pub
• 1:07:06
  just go to your local like £3.50.
• 1:07:08
  Let's go to the supermarket. Wait.
• 1:07:10
  Tuber, right? Yeah, right.
• 1:07:12
  You got a record label. It's called Bread Records.
• 1:07:15
  Yep. Personally, that name.
• 1:07:23
  It's the food of the working class and also who doesn't like
• 1:07:30
  bread in any form? That's true.
• 1:07:33
  Even if you don't like like toast, you like a wrap, you
• 1:07:37
  know, you like a, a naan bread, you know, there's, there's,
• 1:07:42
  there's plenty of variations of it, you know, and.
• 1:07:46
  You can just turn around and be like our Rocco company.
• 1:07:49
  Well, we're the best thing since sliced bread.
• 1:07:53
  Yeah. And that was my dad jokes, damn
• 1:07:58
  it. It is also good for all the the
• 1:08:00
  puns that I get to make for like all the features that we write
• 1:08:03
  up and the the names of the events and stuff and.
• 1:08:06
  Post of the town, all that shit, yeah.
• 1:08:09
  Post the town's good on. I've not used that one yet.
• 1:08:11
  There you go. That's a free one.
• 1:08:14
  That's not free I want. We're always there, right?
• 1:08:17
  How did it come about Red Records?
• 1:08:21
  It was I was producing music and just kind of like recording
• 1:08:25
  music for me and my mates. And I was like, you know what,
• 1:08:28
  may as well do it and like have a place for it all to be like a
• 1:08:33
  hub, a social hub for it. And I was like, OK, Red records,
• 1:08:38
  cool, there we go. And then it's just kind of as
• 1:08:42
  I've met new people, got made new friends, you know, met
• 1:08:46
  people that I collaborate with now we've just done more and
• 1:08:51
  more. And it's good with, you know,
• 1:08:54
  the events role under the one name.
• 1:08:57
  Yeah. Just kind of a big hub for it
• 1:09:01
  all, for everything that I do. How do you decide if you're
• 1:09:05
  going to sign an artist? What's your like criteria?
• 1:09:09
  Mostly it comes down to how busy I am.
• 1:09:13
  Sadly, you're really ridiculously busy all the time.
• 1:09:15
  But one thing I will say is, and I did, I remember saying this to
• 1:09:21
  my, my, my housemate who, who is signed for the label.
• 1:09:25
  It's a level of like how much they would put into it, how much
• 1:09:32
  not not like, you know, financially or, you know, like
• 1:09:37
  talent OR anything like that. It's very much a case of like
• 1:09:41
  how much dedication do they have to creating music that they want
• 1:09:46
  to create. You know, like I get emails
• 1:09:51
  every week being like, oh, this is an artist from, I don't know,
• 1:09:56
  Nottingham. They really want to be signed to
• 1:09:57
  label. This is an artist from Greece.
• 1:10:00
  We will move to Manchester. And it like, you know, if I
• 1:10:04
  could sign everyone in the world, I would do.
• 1:10:06
  But the problem is, is that I have that kind of money, all
• 1:10:08
  that kind of time, you know, it's would you be willing to put
• 1:10:14
  in the amount of time and effort that I would be into my like
• 1:10:18
  into promoting an act, into representing someone and
• 1:10:23
  collaborating with them? It's because, you know, doing
• 1:10:29
  the open mikes, you do see a lot of people who are like, oh, you
• 1:10:32
  know, I'm writing music, but I'm just, you know, just chilling
• 1:10:36
  with it. I just want to do it as a a side
• 1:10:39
  thing. You see some people who are
• 1:10:41
  like, I want to become really famous and, you know, write, do
• 1:10:48
  music for living. But then when you realise the
• 1:10:50
  amount of effort that actually goes into it, it gets very
• 1:10:54
  daunting. And it is, you know, it is very
• 1:10:56
  daunting. But yeah, it's very much a case
• 1:11:00
  of a my time, how much money I have available as well, but also
• 1:11:06
  kind of like just the commitment of it, you know, it's very much
• 1:11:12
  like a commitment thing. But it's not just like a
• 1:11:13
  commitment to like, you know, music or, you know, it's about
• 1:11:19
  writing songs that are true to themselves, you know?
• 1:11:24
  When I look at like the prospect of getting signed, because like
• 1:11:26
  one of my goals is to get signed to an independent label, I have
• 1:11:30
  No 0 interest in major record labels.
• 1:11:34
  And we'll get into that discussion in a bit, but I've
• 1:11:39
  always wanted it as a personal goal of mine.
• 1:11:41
  And what I've always said to people when they say, oh, what,
• 1:11:44
  why are you not like releasing more music?
• 1:11:48
  Or, you know, why are you not gigging?
• 1:11:49
  Or, and I'm, I just straight up just say, because people aren't
• 1:11:53
  giving me those opportunities, you know, they're hard to come
• 1:11:56
  by. Like I got, I got a gig from
• 1:11:57
  you. That was the first gig I've had
• 1:12:01
  since about a year ago. Yeah, I had a few.
• 1:12:06
  I had like about 3 or 4 and then nothing, nothing, nothing,
• 1:12:08
  nothing, nothing. And not for one to try.
• 1:12:10
  And you know, I, I released an album, free, free music videos,
• 1:12:15
  behind the scenes documentary, and I've been promoting it every
• 1:12:19
  day since I released the first single.
• 1:12:22
  So it's like 159 days I think in total, yeah.
• 1:12:26
  It's it's very hard to it's a it's a music isn't for like this
• 1:12:32
  faint hearted people. No, I.
• 1:12:34
  Mean. If you, if you this is this is
• 1:12:36
  what I mean, if you like with when it's like commitment, like
• 1:12:41
  if you just want to do music and you think you're going to be
• 1:12:44
  like immediately famous after the bat, it's just not going to
• 1:12:46
  happen. You know, there is a very, I
• 1:12:48
  will say there is a very slight chance of it happening.
• 1:12:50
  Like you upload a TikTok and it goes viral or you'd put on, you
• 1:12:54
  know, you go on put music on Spotify and it just gets
• 1:12:58
  uploaded onto those playlists, you know, and it gets millions
• 1:13:01
  of plays that can happen. But that's like, you know, it's
• 1:13:05
  like winning the lottery. You know, it, it, it's, it can
• 1:13:09
  happen. There is a chance there's a
• 1:13:11
  chance of you walking out of your house and I don't know, a,
• 1:13:17
  a wad of cash falling on top of your head, but is it going to
• 1:13:20
  happen? Do you know what I mean?
• 1:13:21
  I. Hope it happens but.
• 1:13:24
  There's a chance of above, there's a chance of Manchester
• 1:13:26
  being 25° and it's happened, you know, but it's unlikely that you
• 1:13:36
  were going to have to do you. You'll get famous immediately.
• 1:13:40
  You will have to put in the time and effort.
• 1:13:43
  And to be fair, I think that you kind of the, the time and effort
• 1:13:47
  you put into it and the, the, the things you learn from doing
• 1:13:53
  that is invaluable. Like just kind of meeting
• 1:13:58
  people, kind of gauging people's characters, seeing who's out
• 1:14:01
  there, what kind of people are, you know, you should work with
• 1:14:04
  and you shouldn't. Obviously, you know, everyone
• 1:14:05
  works better with different people or even like, you know,
• 1:14:13
  playing gigs. You can have a million good
• 1:14:17
  gigs, but then what happens when you have a bad one?
• 1:14:20
  You don't want to, I think you need a a bad gig.
• 1:14:22
  So then you go, oh, I need to perform.
• 1:14:25
  I need to learn how to do deal with that.
• 1:14:27
  Or, you know, I know people who play bad gigs and they get
• 1:14:30
  really upset because they're like, oh, well, it was really
• 1:14:32
  enough or I didn't, I couldn't hit this note or I starting this
• 1:14:35
  song wrong. It doesn't matter.
• 1:14:38
  You know what I mean? You got to learn that, I think.
• 1:14:42
  It's like playing sports, you know, everyone has a bad game.
• 1:14:46
  Yeah, exactly. You know, it's, you know, you've
• 1:14:49
  got to, I think you've got to go through it to learn about it
• 1:14:54
  all. You know, it's like, it's the,
• 1:14:57
  it's the grind of it all. You know what I mean?
• 1:14:59
  It's like playing like Minecraft and you got to like level up
• 1:15:02
  and, you know, get all the enchantments and stuff.
• 1:15:05
  It's hard doing everything yourself.
• 1:15:07
  I think that's the biggest struggle I've had over the years
• 1:15:12
  because, like, as I said, like, I would love to get signed.
• 1:15:15
  I would love to get more music out.
• 1:15:17
  But it's like financing. It's trying to survive, you
• 1:15:21
  know, Like I've always said, I would do more if I had more.
• 1:15:25
  Yeah. And like, for want of a better
• 1:15:30
  word, like the people can make that happen, and they have the
• 1:15:34
  power, you know? It's why I push things like a
• 1:15:38
  Patreon. It's why I push my album.
• 1:15:40
  It's why I'm always pitching like I pitched something to
• 1:15:43
  someone just today. Yeah, I'm always doing that.
• 1:15:47
  Like, I think that's an important element is you got to
• 1:15:49
  network. You got to put yourself out
• 1:15:51
  there. You got to ask, you know.
• 1:15:53
  You know what I think, you know, I think the most important thing
• 1:15:56
  of of any musical thing is just to be nice.
• 1:16:00
  You know, I think if you're if you're going to be a Dick head
• 1:16:05
  to someone, you can get your get so far, but then someone will
• 1:16:10
  just be like, Nah, I can't be asked to deal with that.
• 1:16:13
  Someone who with actual like, I don't know, power within the
• 1:16:16
  music industry will be like, no, I'm not dealing with that.
• 1:16:19
  If you're like, if you're nice to everyone, you might not get
• 1:16:23
  it might not be like you might not go like the kind of edgy,
• 1:16:29
  Oh, that guy's really edgy. You're always cool.
• 1:16:31
  That's not any other. But people will want to work
• 1:16:35
  with you because they go, Oh, it was fun and they were nice and
• 1:16:39
  they treated me like a normal person.
• 1:16:42
  You know, I, I always, it always comes back to something my mum
• 1:16:47
  used to say is treat people with the respect that you, that you,
• 1:16:50
  you expect from them, you know, and that's just the, the basic
• 1:16:55
  of how I live my life. You know this.
• 1:16:57
  This brings me to my next question.
• 1:17:00
  Did you ever regret signing an artist?
• 1:17:03
  And if So, what did you learn from that?
• 1:17:07
  No, I wouldn't say so. That's good.
• 1:17:11
  Every app that is signed to the label or has been signed to the
• 1:17:14
  label has been like one of my, my friends and we've worked
• 1:17:22
  together on something and made something we're really proud of.
• 1:17:25
  And then, you know, kept working together.
• 1:17:28
  Or, you know, maybe you take a little break from it or maybe
• 1:17:31
  you just don't want to do that music project anymore.
• 1:17:34
  You know it happens. Has there been any success
• 1:17:39
  stories, like anything where maybe it's set them up something
• 1:17:43
  bigger or like it was just a particularly good release for
• 1:17:46
  Bread Records? Or to be fair, we've we've done
• 1:17:49
  quite consistently well with a lot of the releases of lately.
• 1:17:52
  You know, we're not, you know, we're not talking like millions
• 1:17:55
  and millions of streams or else I'd be on a like a solid gold
• 1:17:58
  throne. But no, like we've done well and
• 1:18:03
  they've done well. Like people will turn around and
• 1:18:07
  be like, oh, that song sounded really good.
• 1:18:09
  Or, you know, I've had it where I've been at random gigs and
• 1:18:13
  someone's been like, oh, you produced that song or you worked
• 1:18:16
  on this with that person. I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm like, Oh
• 1:18:19
  yeah, it sounds really good. Really enjoyed it.
• 1:18:20
  And I think that's an important thing as well.
• 1:18:24
  It's just kind of like knowing the people out there you don't
• 1:18:28
  even know in the kind of localised general area know
• 1:18:33
  about it and enjoying it. You know, the the thing that I
• 1:18:37
  always think when it comes down to music is if you can inspire
• 1:18:41
  someone to make a sound, make, create something with your
• 1:18:44
  music, then that is all that matters.
• 1:18:47
  It blows my mind when I get people, like, online or in
• 1:18:52
  person that tell me that, like, this is my favorite song or I
• 1:18:56
  listen to this all the time in the car.
• 1:18:58
  Like, there's people in, like, states in Europe that listen to
• 1:19:01
  my music right now. And I'm like, what the fuck?
• 1:19:05
  The other day I was doing a live stream and someone recognized my
• 1:19:10
  voice in some audio drama I did back in, like, 2021.
• 1:19:16
  I was like Detective Reynolds. I was like, what the fuck?
• 1:19:21
  Yeah. How do you know about this?
• 1:19:26
  But it's, it's a humbling feeling because you're like, OK,
• 1:19:28
  like you said, there's some reach, you know, like I think
• 1:19:31
  everyone automatically just thinks, oh, if it hasn't got
• 1:19:35
  like 1,000,000 views, then it's not, you know, anything worth,
• 1:19:38
  you know, I get in my head sometimes about it like I
• 1:19:41
  people. People really kind of go
• 1:19:44
  overboard on the on the views and streams and stuff and that.
• 1:19:47
  Don't be wrong, we all want to get those streams.
• 1:19:51
  Why wouldn't you? But if you can have one person
• 1:19:55
  who turned around to you and went, Oh my God, I've streamed
• 1:19:56
  that song like 500 times last year.
• 1:19:58
  I loved. It it.
• 1:19:59
  Made a real difference to my life.
• 1:20:01
  I was in a bad place or something and it really got me
• 1:20:03
  out of it. That's what matters, isn't it?
• 1:20:05
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 1:20:07
  You know, rather than, I don't know, just some random person,
• 1:20:11
  random million people playing it but not really listening to it.
• 1:20:16
  Yeah, no, you're right. Actually that does mean a lot
• 1:20:19
  more. Like I, I have a very small
• 1:20:21
  community online. Small, but it's like, it's so
• 1:20:26
  invaluable, like some of those people have been checking in for
• 1:20:28
  years now and I'm I just thank you to everyone who has been
• 1:20:34
  listening and supporting and watching over the years.
• 1:20:38
  Means more than you ever know. So say that yeah.
• 1:20:43
  OK, so it's 2025. Where do you kind of stand on
• 1:20:47
  the whole indie versus major label?
• 1:20:50
  But I know you're obviously going to be a little bit biased
• 1:20:53
  in this conversation, but I, I think it's, you know, I want to
• 1:20:56
  get your perspective because you have a lot of different elements
• 1:21:01
  to you in the music industry. So what do you say on that one?
• 1:21:07
  I think the best way to describe it was that like a major label
• 1:21:11
  is a business. Yep.
• 1:21:13
  And an independent label is less business focused.
• 1:21:19
  It is still a business, but it is less business focused.
• 1:21:24
  It's like, you know, when a company gets bought out by like
• 1:21:32
  one of those companies that just is there to make profit, that's
• 1:21:37
  what a major label is. They want to make.
• 1:21:41
  They want to use the, the the product to make money, you know,
• 1:21:46
  which is great. You know, we all want to make
• 1:21:48
  money, you know, with everyone. No one wants to be pop.
• 1:21:52
  But in order to do it with the facilities that they offer with
• 1:21:57
  like production and, you know, studios and advances and, you
• 1:22:02
  know, marketing and pressing duplication and stuff, they have
• 1:22:09
  to, you know, they, they don't really, the royalties are
• 1:22:12
  enough, you know. Yeah, And it's like, I can't get
• 1:22:16
  my head, like, OK, I know that a lot of people back in the day
• 1:22:19
  and even to this day sign because, you know, they get
• 1:22:22
  promised like, oh, we'll make you a star.
• 1:22:23
  We're going to do this, that and the other.
• 1:22:25
  And not everyone is a songwriter.
• 1:22:28
  Like some people are just performers.
• 1:22:30
  Some people are quite happy just singing other people's music.
• 1:22:33
  And there's no shame in that. Like, I know some people are
• 1:22:35
  like really against that. I think as long as signing with
• 1:22:39
  your label aligns with your goals, it's fine.
• 1:22:42
  The problem that I have is you come in, you're a songwriter,
• 1:22:48
  you've written your music, maybe you might have collaborated with
• 1:22:51
  people, or maybe it's completely yours.
• 1:22:54
  Either way, you have writing credits, you have performed, you
• 1:22:58
  have yeah, Aiden etcetera and the label turns around to you
• 1:23:03
  and it's like we own 70% of this.
• 1:23:07
  I'm like it's. Quite generous, Relatable.
• 1:23:12
  Yeah, what? Fuck you.
• 1:23:14
  What do you mean you didn't? All you did was push it.
• 1:23:18
  And now, don't get me wrong, I'm not underestimating the power of
• 1:23:21
  money. Mean fuck me.
• 1:23:21
  Like, if I had a budget, I probably could take this album a
• 1:23:24
  lot further, right? But it is what it is, right?
• 1:23:27
  I. Think that the difference with
• 1:23:29
  it is because they have millions for promotion and mark 10 and
• 1:23:35
  you know, placements within the other areas of the industry.
• 1:23:42
  They can do that, you know, and, and a lot of people, if you've
• 1:23:47
  got time for a major, if a major label, if you were like a 17
• 1:23:50
  year old, you've just been like, I've got these songs and major
• 1:23:53
  label comes up to you and they're like, oh, we want to
• 1:23:56
  sign you. We want to put out your debut
• 1:23:58
  album, but we're going to give you 12%.
• 1:24:02
  But you go, you go 12% but now, but you're guaranteed millions
• 1:24:07
  and millions of streams, arena tours.
• 1:24:11
  People will just look at that and they go, Oh my God, that's
• 1:24:13
  amazing. Because it is.
• 1:24:15
  It is, you know, don't get me wrong.
• 1:24:16
  You know that that is great. But you got to think business
• 1:24:20
  though. You said, you said business.
• 1:24:22
  And I I'm right there with you because I look at it like think
• 1:24:25
  long term. Like, yeah, OK, you might be
• 1:24:28
  this 17 year old kid and you're like, oh fucking hell, I can be
• 1:24:31
  mega famous and I can do arena tours and it's like, yeah, but
• 1:24:34
  think about 10 years from now, 20 years from now.
• 1:24:37
  We are also talking about when I was 17, I wasn't thinking about
• 1:24:42
  that about 10. Years.
• 1:24:43
  No, no, I know we would have just gone for that like idiots
• 1:24:47
  and then, but yeah. I mean, that's the main thing,
• 1:24:49
  you know, and I, you know, I'd be guilty of that as well.
• 1:24:52
  Do you know what I mean? If you if you turn around to me
• 1:24:54
  and you were like, you can drink all the beers in the world and,
• 1:24:57
  you know, party all the time and just play tunes, I'd be like, Oh
• 1:24:59
  yeah, damn, that sounds well. But but I think don't go around.
• 1:25:06
  There are people who would be more clued up to it.
• 1:25:10
  I think especially nowadays, you know, the the kids seem to be a
• 1:25:14
  bit smarter than they used to be.
• 1:25:16
  Yeah, absolutely. And you know they won't tune
• 1:25:18
  into things. As they should be.
• 1:25:21
  You know, I think when it comes to like an independent label,
• 1:25:26
  it's very much more of a we are putting this music out because
• 1:25:30
  not just on a basis of it, we want it to be a commercial piece
• 1:25:32
  of music. We want it to be, well, we want
• 1:25:35
  this, we want the world to hear this because it's great, you
• 1:25:38
  know, and that's what I, that's, that's the way I run.
• 1:25:41
  Like I would say is the best way, you know, I, I would never
• 1:25:44
  turn around to one of the acts on the label and be like, oh,
• 1:25:48
  that song needs to be a certain length of time.
• 1:25:51
  It needs to have this many bars of an intro.
• 1:25:53
  So then the hook hits and you need to repeat the hook again.
• 1:25:57
  And then you need, don't use that minor key.
• 1:25:59
  Change it, put it in a major key.
• 1:26:04
  If you write a song and it sounds good, then that, that,
• 1:26:09
  that's what I want, you know, if I enjoy it, if I go down, people
• 1:26:13
  should hear this. That's all I'm about.
• 1:26:15
  Do you know what I mean? I don't want, you know, I, I, I
• 1:26:21
  produce. I know what?
• 1:26:22
  I know how it works. I just, I don't do it, you know?
• 1:26:29
  OK. I know how you could, I know the
• 1:26:32
  elements of production into making it into a commercial,
• 1:26:35
  more commercialized song. I just don't really like doing
• 1:26:39
  it, you know? I just think I have AI like the
• 1:26:45
  way that the song goes. I like a 7 minute song, you
• 1:26:49
  know, I like a song with two verses and four choruses, but
• 1:26:54
  then there's like a 7 minute guitar solo, you know?
• 1:26:58
  Know all. I know your own songs about
• 1:27:00
  that, John. Yeah, I mean, it's creative
• 1:27:04
  expression, isn't it? Yeah, I think that's the key.
• 1:27:06
  Like when I look at the music I have and the music I want to do
• 1:27:10
  in the future, some of it is more just kind of creative and,
• 1:27:15
  and because I just love to write music and other songs are more
• 1:27:20
  catchier, I guess more like, you know, I remember when I was
• 1:27:24
  deciding on what to do as singles from my album, I had a
• 1:27:27
  hard time because I felt like a lot of the songs were of a
• 1:27:32
  single quality and then some were definitely not.
• 1:27:36
  And I settled on the ones that I had.
• 1:27:38
  And I was, I was happy with that, those choices.
• 1:27:40
  But it taught me a lot about, you know, writing stuff that you
• 1:27:46
  think are going to be singles versus writing like deep cuts.
• 1:27:50
  But I don't, I do think you've got to be careful with that.
• 1:27:53
  And you shouldn't write with like the mentality of, oh, I
• 1:27:56
  want this to be a hit. It should just be write a song,
• 1:28:00
  then see how it feels, see how people react to it and go from
• 1:28:02
  there. Write a song and if it just the
• 1:28:05
  the way that I do it is I'll, you know, I'll, I'll come up
• 1:28:07
  with like a nice little guitar pattern or something and then
• 1:28:10
  I'll just try and come up with something, some lyrics.
• 1:28:13
  Sometimes it'll take me a day, sometimes it'll take me an hour,
• 1:28:17
  sometimes it'll take me a year. It's you know, but I never go
• 1:28:22
  in, go in. Oh, this could be a single.
• 1:28:24
  I'll write a song and I'll be like, what songs could be more
• 1:28:30
  single? Like what could I put out as a
• 1:28:32
  as like an independent piece rather than a piece?
• 1:28:36
  That's if it, if it's like an album or like AEP or like a
• 1:28:41
  longer collection of tracks. I always think there should be
• 1:28:44
  some kind of tying way to tie them all into each other and I
• 1:28:50
  always will produce them in the mindset of going I've got 2 two
• 1:28:56
  songs that finish and start on the same chord.
• 1:29:01
  Cool. Similar, but finish and start on
• 1:29:03
  the same chord. But.
• 1:29:05
  I want to create like a little interlude between them going
• 1:29:10
  around it's it's a very slight variation of a chord.
• 1:29:14
  You know, it's like going from like AB 5 to AB -7 you know?
• 1:29:20
  So I want to create like a little interleave.
• 1:29:22
  There's a bit like atmospheric and a bit more like ethereal.
• 1:29:25
  Just kind of linking them together a little bit.
• 1:29:28
  Just it's not going to be the most played song on Spotify, but
• 1:29:34
  I just think it'd be nice, you know?
• 1:29:38
  Yeah, when it comes. When it comes to my own music,
• 1:29:41
  because obviously I play as well, I just I don't really care
• 1:29:46
  about I don't really care about what people think of it.
• 1:29:50
  I just want to write songs and I just want to if I go, oh, that's
• 1:29:52
  pretty cool. I want to do that.
• 1:29:53
  Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I like the creative
• 1:29:57
  freedom within my own music. I will say I might have I need
• 1:30:03
  to market it a bit better and I will be for future releases, But
• 1:30:08
  I like the I like being able to just oh, I'm going to write a 6
• 1:30:11
  minute song. Oops it oops it end up being a 7
• 1:30:16
  minute song and it's got massive guitar so at the end, Oh no he's
• 1:30:19
  going to you. Know I've identified in songs
• 1:30:22
  I've heard you sing where I'm like, that's a single.
• 1:30:27
  That's just a cool song yeah, I can hear it.
• 1:30:29
  I can hear like. But again, it's it's
• 1:30:34
  perspective, you know just because that's what I think
• 1:30:37
  doesn't mean that's what everyone thinks.
• 1:30:39
  But like, yeah, but you just you just hear it.
• 1:30:42
  Like you can hear when something can be something like to bring
• 1:30:46
  up a mutual friend of ours, like AM that is just so unbelievably
• 1:30:53
  talented. Like I messaged him today just
• 1:30:57
  saying, like, you just such an amazing songwriter.
• 1:31:00
  Like please just never stop writing because he's I Something
• 1:31:06
  about the way he performs. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's hard to
• 1:31:12
  place. It's something that you can just
• 1:31:15
  your sense. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:31:18
  You can't really put it into words.
• 1:31:20
  It's like one wonder was similar.
• 1:31:23
  Anyone's ghost wonder was very similar in that sometimes you
• 1:31:26
  just watch them play like a set and just be like, you're shy.
• 1:31:33
  You're not like stage presence isn't like all over the place
• 1:31:39
  chatting to everyone and be like, Oh my God, this song is
• 1:31:40
  this. But when you perform, it's
• 1:31:45
  there. It's there.
• 1:31:46
  It's just there. Everyone's watching.
• 1:31:49
  Everyone's going, whoa, oh, hold on.
• 1:31:50
  OK, whoa. What's going on?
• 1:31:53
  You know, and I think there's a there are acts that just have
• 1:31:57
  that and you just go, I don't know what what it is, but
• 1:32:02
  they've got it. You know, I explain to them
• 1:32:06
  anyone why, why it's like that. It just is, you know?
• 1:32:10
  I know exactly what you mean. And there's that's one of the
• 1:32:13
  beauties of doing the open mics is so many people pass through
• 1:32:16
  and every now and again there'll just be someone in where I'm
• 1:32:18
  like, wow, that's this. And I'll add this shit to my
• 1:32:22
  playlist and I'm like, fuck yeah, man.
• 1:32:24
  Right, love it. Exactly.
• 1:32:27
  No, we've we've recorded a few of of of his songs finally.
• 1:32:32
  Yeah, they are yes, they are very good.
• 1:32:37
  I'm very, very my main worry when I record someone's songs is
• 1:32:43
  like, will we work well with recording each other's songs or
• 1:32:48
  will it just be me doing it or will it just be them doing it?
• 1:32:52
  But with with Max, we, we really, we both have ideas and
• 1:32:57
  we don't argue. We go, oh, that doesn't work.
• 1:33:00
  OK, cool. We'll try this.
• 1:33:01
  You know what I mean? It's a very level headed playing
• 1:33:05
  ground. We can disagree and it's, it's
• 1:33:10
  all good. We don't, we don't hold, we
• 1:33:13
  don't hold grunges about it. We'll go and have a pint
• 1:33:15
  afterwards. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:33:18
  It's, that's what it's about. I think you know OK.
• 1:33:27
  So you do promotion as well for events?
• 1:33:29
  I'm going to read you something because I've seen over the
• 1:33:33
  years, it's never changed. It's always the same.
• 1:33:37
  If you don't promote your acts and you put the responsibility
• 1:33:41
  on the acts for promotion, can you really call yourself a
• 1:33:46
  promoter? Yeah, no, I get it.
• 1:33:52
  But there is a, there's a. When you Click to be clear,
• 1:33:58
  Michael promotes his acts. He's he's not one of these
• 1:34:01
  people. There's a level like when you
• 1:34:04
  play a gig, When when if I ask you to play a gig, I expect you
• 1:34:10
  to do a post or talk to your friends about it.
• 1:34:14
  But then I also expect myself to go, oh, we'll do a bit of a post
• 1:34:19
  about it. We'll go, oh, Christian's
• 1:34:20
  playing this. This starts whatever time, get
• 1:34:24
  some posters done or whatever, talk to people about it and
• 1:34:27
  just, you know, get the word out there.
• 1:34:30
  Are there are promoters out there who don't do it?
• 1:34:35
  Like don't really do any promotion?
• 1:34:38
  But I will say there are also some acts that don't either, you
• 1:34:42
  know, it's, it's like, you know, it's a handshake.
• 1:34:47
  You both work together to do it, you know, because if you didn't,
• 1:34:52
  if you both didn't work together to do it, then no one's going to
• 1:34:55
  turn off. And you're just going to have
• 1:34:56
  enough time. You're just not going to have
• 1:34:57
  fun, are you? You know, and sometimes it just
• 1:35:02
  sometimes it's hard, you know, there's a million things going
• 1:35:06
  on at all times and at any moment in the world, you know,
• 1:35:11
  just to try and get someone down to 11 evening of of their life.
• 1:35:16
  Oh dude, it's so hard. Like I, I promote the shit out
• 1:35:19
  of everything I do. Like that gig, I promoted it
• 1:35:21
  hard everywhere online. I told friends about it and God
• 1:35:27
  bless my friend George, he's the only person that showed up and
• 1:35:32
  it's frustrating, man. I it's the second time I've been
• 1:35:35
  doing music in my life. It was the same when I was in
• 1:35:38
  bands. It's the same now.
• 1:35:42
  Nobody cares about you until everybody cares about you.
• 1:35:44
  That's the reality. And, and what fucks me off about
• 1:35:47
  it is there's so much good local talent that I would even argue
• 1:35:55
  is better than some of the stuff you see in the charts, to be
• 1:35:57
  honest. Like, I'm travelling down to
• 1:36:00
  London at the end of this month to see this band.
• 1:36:03
  They're called The Trusted, they're from Southend.
• 1:36:07
  Fucking incredible. Like every song's a banger.
• 1:36:12
  They would have popped off in the 2000s, I can tell you that
• 1:36:14
  much. And I'm like, I can't believe
• 1:36:17
  I'm going to see this band for like 7 or 8 quid.
• 1:36:21
  You're moving the headliners and they are fucking amazing.
• 1:36:24
  And I'm genuinely just a fan. Like I'm I had the singer on my
• 1:36:27
  show a few years back and they're lovely boys.
• 1:36:30
  Really, really tired, lovely guys, very humble, absolutely
• 1:36:34
  deserve some recognition and I'm just so over the moon that I get
• 1:36:40
  to see it for so cheap. That's it.
• 1:36:44
  It baffles me sometimes that I've put on some some bands and
• 1:36:50
  literally been like my fucking God, like, wow, that was, I am
• 1:36:55
  blown away. And then I'll look around the
• 1:36:58
  room and be like 10 people were here and I'll be like 10 people
• 1:37:02
  witnessed like probably one of the best performances I've seen
• 1:37:06
  in a very long time. Exactly, Yeah.
• 1:37:09
  But sometimes you will put on a gate and you'll go, oh, wow,
• 1:37:14
  this is busy out of nowhere. You know it's.
• 1:37:20
  Luck of the draw, isn't it? It's work.
• 1:37:23
  And the luck of the draw, if you work hard on it, you you really
• 1:37:26
  fucking go for it. It's more likely they'll be
• 1:37:30
  busy, but there is also a chance that it won't be.
• 1:37:34
  Yeah, I, I always look at like, what we're doing wrong because I
• 1:37:37
  put like endless, endless hours into it.
• 1:37:40
  I'm doing it every fucking day. I'm pushing and pushing.
• 1:37:42
  I'm doing live streams where I sing my music.
• 1:37:45
  I play every single week. I pop up other random nights
• 1:37:48
  that I don't, you know, like yours and stuff.
• 1:37:51
  Makes no difference. It's hard.
• 1:37:53
  It's. Just like throwing shit at all.
• 1:37:55
  It's like I've been so tempted to suck it in the multiple times
• 1:38:01
  and I didn't because I love what I do.
• 1:38:04
  I mean, I feel like it's, it's like giving up on yourself.
• 1:38:10
  You just can't do it. But it it, it does get
• 1:38:13
  disheartening sometimes and I don't know, I just, you know,
• 1:38:18
  just carry on. I guess there's a while there
• 1:38:20
  is, right? To be honest.
• 1:38:22
  I mean. Yeah, I mean, well, if you're
• 1:38:23
  not doing music, but if you don't do, if you do, if you do
• 1:38:26
  music, it's effectively an extension of yourself.
• 1:38:29
  Yeah. And if you just like, oh, I
• 1:38:31
  don't want to do anymore, no one's come in, then you're just
• 1:38:36
  validating your own self worth by other people's, you know?
• 1:38:45
  Yeah, by other people, yeah. I look at it like this, I'd
• 1:38:49
  rather be heartbroken but singing my heart out and loving
• 1:38:53
  every second of it, then go back to when I didn't do music and
• 1:38:58
  have that feeling of like I can't go to gigs and watch
• 1:39:01
  people play without feeling intense sadness.
• 1:39:04
  Yeah, exactly. You know, I think, I think for
• 1:39:09
  the rest of my life I would just, if I wanted to go for a go
• 1:39:14
  somewhere, go hang out, I would, you know, probably go to a gig,
• 1:39:18
  you know, there it is. Couple of final questions for
• 1:39:22
  you to wrap things up. What's the best advice you've
• 1:39:26
  ever received? The best advice I've ever
• 1:39:29
  received is probably that one that my mum said just treat
• 1:39:38
  people with the respect that you expect to be treated with
• 1:39:41
  because it just makes sense, yeah.
• 1:39:47
  What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:39:52
  Biggest life lesson so far I will tell you what the biggest
• 1:39:57
  life lesson I've learned this year is that people can be a
• 1:40:02
  pain in the arse. Really.
• 1:40:07
  Yeah, just like, don't get me wrong, you know a lot.
• 1:40:11
  I have a lot of friends who are very dependable on stuff, but
• 1:40:14
  sometimes you just think like, I'm a heck, sometimes it all
• 1:40:19
  stacks against you. Do you know what I mean?
• 1:40:21
  You know, but at the same time, I will say everyone has their
• 1:40:24
  own shit to deal with. You know, you, you can be like,
• 1:40:28
  oh, this, this is happening. It's not good.
• 1:40:31
  Oh, my life's terrible, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:40:33
  But then everyone else is dealing with the exact same, if
• 1:40:36
  not more, if not slightly less. You know, the biggest life
• 1:40:41
  lesson in general is just if you don't enjoy, if you don't even
• 1:40:46
  enjoy it, stop it. Just just do something else, you
• 1:40:48
  know? Final question for you.
• 1:40:52
  Do you have any upcoming projects or final thoughts that
• 1:40:55
  you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 1:40:58
  Upcoming projects. I have a gig today.
• 1:41:02
  Hey at the Eagle end we were there every 3rd 1st Thursday of
• 1:41:07
  the month. Nice little acoustic sound.
• 1:41:11
  In Stockport, right? In Salford.
• 1:41:14
  Sorry, so oh Sophie, OK. Yeah, just an on Trinity near
• 1:41:18
  the Trinity wave thing and projects.
• 1:41:25
  We have some new music from Yam probably at some time.
• 1:41:32
  We have more scatter child music, more stuff on the label,
• 1:41:37
  more gigs. You know, it's my birthday this
• 1:41:41
  month. It's my I'm going to this
• 1:41:44
  month's going to be a bit more chill and then after summer
• 1:41:47
  we're all going again. So let's.
• 1:41:49
  Go I want to take a minute to just say, firstly, a massive
• 1:41:53
  thank you for being on the show. It's been a real pleasure.
• 1:41:56
  Secondly, massive thank you for just all the hard work that you
• 1:41:59
  put in, you know, giving people opportunity to play, giving
• 1:42:04
  artists an opportunity to record their music, everything you're
• 1:42:06
  doing for Manchester and its music scene.
• 1:42:08
  So thank you very much. Really, really appreciate it.
• 1:42:10
  That's fine. Then to all the listeners of the
• 1:42:14
  Christian Marie Podcast, I hope you enjoyed this show as much as
• 1:42:16
  I did to make sure to go out of your way to check out Michael's
• 1:42:19
  music and all the music at Bred Records.
• 1:42:22
  You won't regret it. And as always, be safe, be well,
• 1:42:26
  and I'll see you in the next one.