Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1045 - The Art & Science of Family Meetings

Transcript

#1045 - The Art & Science of Family Meetings · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: once answers.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Now, family life can be a little tricky now and
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: then there's a lot to coordinate things. Sometimes it's one
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: of the bottom drops out and things go pear shaped.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Came across a fabulous quote a little while ago from
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: James Clear, the author of I think he sold fifteen
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: million copies of Atomic Habits now clytie like one of
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: the best selling books in recent years, if not the
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: best phenomenal.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I saw a girl reading Atomic Habits in the cafe
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the other day.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Did you give her a high five and sort of
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: get right into a conversation with her about it?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: I actually wanted to buy eye chickened out. I thought
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I was pretty excited.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great book. Anyway, James Clear said this, and
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: this is not in the book. This was something else
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: that I found that he'd written. He said, most big,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: deeply satisfying accomplishments in life take at least five years
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: to achieve. This can include building a business, cultivate, eating
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: a loving relationship, writing a book, getting in the best
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: shape of your life, raising a family, and more. Five
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: years is a long time. It's much slower than most
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: of us would like. If you accept the reality of
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: slow progress, you have every reason to take action today.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: If you resist the reality of slow progress, five years
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: from now, you'll simply be five years older and still
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: looking for a shortcut. How good is that? So cool
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: to make you want to go on exercise? It's tempting, yeah,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: isn't it. Let's finish the podcast. No, I'm just kidding, Kylie.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Today's conversation is about building a better family, building a
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: flourishing family. We've broached this on the podcast before. I
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: know how to settle this. Yeah, whacking what no family meeting? Oh,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: the topic of family meetings. I'm raising it because they're
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: hard to do. They're hard to get right. But when
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: you do and do them consistently, that five your project
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: to making your family happy. Well, you can kind of
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: speed it up. It is a semi shortcut. And there
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: was an article on The Conversation recently, the Conversation being
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: that academic website that's out there that just sort of
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: prompted me to think, hmm, we need to revisit this
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: because it was a great article to bring the topic up,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: but it didn't do much to give people concrete, practical strategies.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: So let's talk family meetings. You used to do them
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: in your home when you were growing up.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: When we got married, you said, let's have a family meeting.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: It was just you and I, let's have like a
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: couple's meeting.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: And it didn't go very well, and you couldn't work out.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: You couldn't work out what was going on. You wouldn't
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: talk every time we sat down. Everything that came out
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: of your mouth felt like an attack to me, and
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I just clam up.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Which it wasn't. I was saying, let's improve our lives,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: our relationships, let's be awesome, because I think we can be.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: But it wasn't until months later that we started to
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: really kind of look into why it was that way
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: for me, and I started sharing with you what family
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: meetings were like in my home growing up.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I have two words for you to explain it. Bag
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: edge that's one word. Yeah, well, but it felt like
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: it was pretty heavy. So two words today.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: When I was growing up, we would get together for
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: a weekly family meeting and we would all air our grievances,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: and what started off as something that was supposed to
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: be positive, it turned into an absolute mosh pit of
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: grievance and hurt feelings, accusations, and it was just disastrous.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: So when you and I started sitting down as a couple,
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: all I could think about was everything that was coming
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: out of your mouth was accusing me that I wasn't
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: good enough. And it was a really really tricky space
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: for us to sit with for a long time until
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: we realized that we just would change the name and
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: that would disassociate family meetings with what we were doing
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: to your family.
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: You called it a family council, which it does sound
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: a bit serious, doesn't it. So we came up with
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: a much catchier title. What do we call it again?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Weekly Couple's Inventory catchy.
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: C I for SUT, we have a weekly w C.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I actually think it worked better because it actually took
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: out all the emotion.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: It was very clinical, and since then we've done them now.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Rachel Sharman is a University of Sunshine Coast psychology researcher,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: and she wrote this article on the Conversation, which we
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: will link to in the show notes. But she highlights
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: that there could be some risks to family meetings. They
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: could be and we've kind of outlined them. She also
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: highlights that there's barely any research. There's no real evidence
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: out there that we can lean on to know if
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: they do or they do not work. The only evidence
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: we've got is the evidence from people like you who
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: grew up in homes where they didn't work particularly well,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: or people like me who grew up in a home
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: where well, actually we didn't really have them, but you
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: and I put them into practice and we figured out
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: how to make them work.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest risks, if we're talking frankly,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: is that if parents who are leading meetings do not
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: have the emotional intelligence to keep their own emotions.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: In check a little bit of restraint.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And are able to model appropriate behavior as they work
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: through big emotions that will sometimes be expressed in those meetings,
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: then it's going to be a mash up.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Well, I think the other thing to bear in mind
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: here is this family meeting is not meant to be
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: a let's all vent experience. This is meant to be
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: a productive conversation about what we're doing in our family
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: and what we're looking to do moving forward. Is about
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: creating a vision and moving in that direction. So the
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: benefits that Rachel Sharman highlights. Basically, she says that if
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: we can get everyone experiencing the opportunity to be heard,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: that is, they get to use their own voice. If
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: we can catch up with everyone what everyone's doing and feeling,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: if we can talk about upcoming events or challenges, and
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: if we can genuinely canvas different opinions on how to
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: move forward in a positive way, then we usually get
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: good outcomes. Everyone asks their opinion, get to speak their
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: mind without interruption or criticism, and making sure that it's
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: developmentally appropriate. Oh and making sure that the kids know
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: our family is not a democracy, like the parents are
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: the pre frontal cortex of the family, and just because
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: you want ice cream for dinner and breakfast and lunch
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: every single day doesn't mean we're going to have a
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: vote on it. I mean we're going to be talking
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: talking about reasonable things that need to discussed. Kylie, you
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and I have been talking about this for a while,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: and we put lists together of the benefits that we've
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: seen in our home with our six daughters as we've
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: regularly and consistently held family meetings. Let me run through
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: those four things. Number One, kids learn to articulate. For me,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: one of the most important skills that a young person
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: a child can learn is to to articulate an argument,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to stand in front of a group of people, or
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: sit in front of a group of people and make
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: their case. I think schools should have more public speaking,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: not less. I know people with anxiety don't like that,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: but the best way to overcome it is exposure to
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: it and practice with it. The ability to stand in
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: front a group of people and say, here's the case
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I want to make and these are the reasons for
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: it maybe one of the most important schools we can
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: develop in our life. And family meetings are a really soft,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: safe place usually if we do it right for children
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: to learn that skill.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: And add on to that is it's important for them
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: to know that their voice matters. And if they can't
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: feel that in their home, when will they ever experience
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: it anywhere else? This is the training ground.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: And I guess that's the point that you make with
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: your story. You didn't really get to have a voice
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: in your family meetings, so when I said let's do it,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: you kind of thought, great, now I'm going to be
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: threatened in my marriage as well, which was never the point.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: And obviously that hasn't really happened, but there's that feeling there.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: So we've got to be able to do right. For
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: kids to be able to articulate their position is so valuable.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Second one, children learn to regulate their emotions in this
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: family meetings because sometimes they hear things that don't sit
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: well with them. Not everything we say in these meetings
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: lands just right, and.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: I guess the idea and notion we can be comfortable
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: with being uncomfortable. One of the things that we struggle
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: with as a human race, I want to say, is
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: being uncomfortable. We don't like that feeling. We run away
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: from it. So whether it's a big emotion or a
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: difficult person, our natural instinct is to run.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of like that quote from Brenne Brown
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: that we use the other day when we talk about
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: emotion regulation on the podcast just over a week ago.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: We are first and foremost emotional beings, where rational beings second,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: which means that every now and again our rationality is
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: tied up and bound and gagged in the boot while
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: emotions are driving that card down the road.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: And so this is a beautiful, hopefully a safe space
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: for you to work through some big emotions or challenging emotions.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: They don't have to be big necessarily, just challenging. These
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: emotions don't feel comfortable, we don't sit well with them, and.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: So that ties in with a third benefit, which is
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: frustration tolerance. Kids learn, again in a fairly low stakes environment,
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: to tolerate things that are a bit uncomfortable. Tolerate that frustration.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: The fourth and final one social skills. This is an
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: opportunity where children learn to listen, they learn to take turns, wait,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: understand other people's perspectives. The social skills that come out
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: of family meetings I think are just invaluable, so important.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: And hopefully there's some good communication being modeled by mum
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: and dad.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I work through that process. Otherwise this doesn't work. Now,
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: now here's the interesting thing I mentioned, and Rachel Shalman
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: in her conversation article says, there's pretty much no research
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: out there on this stuff. There is a little bit
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: of research on family meetings, but it usually looks at
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: adult siblings, typically in.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: Like a looking bag.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: No, in a palliative care situation, that is, we're going
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: to get the family together because there's going to be
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a death or there's going to be a divorce, or
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: there's going to be some major challenge that we're facing.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: And so the.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: Research high stakes, high emotion.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Right right, The research is mixed in terms of the outcomes.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Why Well, because a lot of people don't know how
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: to regulate their emotions, deal with frustration, tolerance, have the
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: social skills to listen, take turns, work through it all,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: and fundamentally articulate their positions in healthy ways all the
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: benefits that we've been describing, if they haven't had practice
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: with it makes family meetings really tough.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: At the beginning of the podcast, you shared that quote
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: from James Clear and the idea of this five year process,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: but you also acknowledge that in doing family meetings, it
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: probably doesn't need to take five years for you to
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: see benefits. But I would say that the idea of
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: building strong, lasting family relationships is a long term process.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: While your family meetings will help you get more organized
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and be on the same page with each other, it's
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: actually the consistency and the constant check in and accountability
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: that we each hold with one another as we work
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: through those big emotions, hard things, and the changes we
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: want to make for better family life that relationships flourish,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: but that is a long term thing. And if you
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: look at getting to that place of being older siblings
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: sitting down because there's a big thing that we've got
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: to deal with. We've worked through this as children and
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: hopefully over time we've built beautiful, strong relationships. Trust right
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: with these things as they come.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: So in the conversation article from Rachel Sharman from the
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: University of Sunshine Coast, she doesn't give us a lot
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: of tips on what to do. She highlights not a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: lot of research. There are some risks, but it can work.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: We think we've got a lot of experience in this area,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: and we're going to give you six tips that can
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: help to make a difference. First things first, talking about
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: what went well. Celebrating success is kind of the way
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: we frame it, but we're not talking about high fives
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: and art of officially inflating how well we're doing. It's
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: just a two minute conversation, Hey, what's working out in
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: our family this week?
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: And that's the key point. While we could talk about
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: and celebrate things that are actually happening in each of
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: our individual lives, this family meeting is about what's working
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: well in our family. Great and The great thing about
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: this is the acknowledgment that everyone has a voice. Even
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: your two year old can tell you what's good about
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: our family.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost a gratitude circle, but we're being a
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: bit more specific. We've really hit mornings well this week,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: or really really loved the way we've been having good
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: quality conversations around the dinner table at night, or lockdown
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: super Saturday on Saturday morning.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: All loved that everyone came together and did ten minute
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: tidy every night after dinner.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: Second thing, what didn't work so well? Critical thing here
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: so that we don't slide into the accusatory stance, is
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: we're talking about on average as a family. Here are
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: the things that we struggled with together.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: So it's not about individuals.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Not a thing pointing exercise, what went well? What didn't
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: go well? Third thing, when we look at the stuff
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that didn't go well, or maybe when we look at
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the things that did go well, if we were to
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: do one thing more or better this week to make
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: our family function better, what would it be.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: And again, having each individual voice in the mix creates
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: a bit of hole. In the end, the outcomes are
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: better because there's greater accountability and we'll buy in. We're
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: all on the same page.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: It's really really important though, that you consider not just
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: what went wrong, but what went well, because sometimes things
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: are going okay, but you're doing one thing really well.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Just do more of that that feels awesome. You're building
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: on your successes rather than constantly try to manage and
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: patch up your weaknesses. So it could go either way.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: There our last three ideas, let me run through them
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: all together, because they all kind of fit together really neatly.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Include food. Kids really like that, and so we as
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: grown ups. I've noticed number five, have it at a
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: regular time, be consistent with it. That's where the kids
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: get in that rhythm and routine. They expect that it
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: will happen, and you can well, the more consistent you are,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the better you are at it. And last, but not least,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: once you've gone through all of that stuff, have a
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: quick look at the calendar, talk about what to expect
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: this week, and you're done. You can do it in
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: what depends on the size of your family, ten maybe
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: fifteen minutes.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: So while there's not a lot of research to let
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: us know whether or not these meetings actually have any
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: significant impact in your family, our experience has been that
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: it has totally changed the way our family feels and
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: the way our family functions. So our big tips are
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: what went well, what didn't go well, and what do
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: we want to focus on to make things better? Include food,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: keep it nice and short, and involve everybody.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, our next one's on Sunday. I'm actually kind of
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: looking forward to it now that we've had this conversation.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rulan from
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Thanks for your great work, Justin. If you'd
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: like more information about making your family happy, visit us
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot au. Sign up for
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: our membership. We'll give you even more information about how
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to roll out those famis only meetings and make them work.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: You get a free course as part of the membership.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: It's worth i don't know, like four or five hundred
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: bucks all about pulling it together, and our first unit
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: in that course is all about the stuff we've just
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: talked about. So much value in a Happy families dot
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: com dot au. Click on the membership's page and get
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: your info there