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The Debate You Wanted with Lisa Collier and Devin Patton · 6 Ranch Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Food insecurity in Wallowa County is between 12 and 14%, meaning about one in eight people has insecurity about the amount of food that they have.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Do either of you have a plan for the problem with mule deer decline and sort of the tedious nature that we have with access to hunting for food these days?
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: These are stories of outdoor adventure and expert advice from folks with calloused hands.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I'm James Nash and this is the Six Ranch Podcast.
• 0:44
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• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, this is a show that I've been looking forward to for a long time even longer before this opportunity came up and it's been talked about in political circles before that.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: The modern way that we interact with political candidates is pretty goofy.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Right, we're putting them up on a stage, there's lights, there's questions that are coming from a moderator, and people get a specific amount of time to talk about it, and they're really looking for these sound bites that they can take out of context and put all over social media, and it's pretty dishonest.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: It's a dishonest representation of who people are.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: So you two are running for County Commissioner in Wallowa County.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: You've both made it through the primary and would like you to introduce yourselves.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Let's start with Devin.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my name is Devin Patton.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: I'm a 34-year-old father of four.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Uh grew up east of joseph on a cattle ranch and it was a great childhood.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Grown up had, uh, lots of cousins neighboring around.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Um, my mom's parents were just about three miles down, just just far enough that we could ride bikes down there.
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: It was downhill getting there.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: It was a little bit hard riding back home, uh, oftentimes got got got grandma convinced to give us a ride.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: But um, yeah, there's a lot of pattens in wallowa county there's not that many pounds.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of butterfields yeah and and that's even an interesting thing for me, because my grandpa was the last butterfield he was the bottleneck okay and not like the lathrops where there was like two generations, where there was nine or eleven kids in them.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: Um, but my grandpa was the only son.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: He had one sister, um ann hayes.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: She passed away last summer and uh, but then he had three sons and my uncle steve was killed in a truck accident in the, I think, 1984, driving back from back from Holland Hay down to MNHA.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: So he didn't have any kids, but my Uncle Mark and my Uncle Dan each had two sons and then each of them have had at least two sons and now they're all school age.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: So there's a pack of Butterfields and the funny thing about them, they all live on Tenderfoot Valley Road.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: But I went to the University of Idaho after I graduated from high school in 2008, got a bachelor of science in agribusiness and, um, then I chased my wife to northern colorado because I graduated and figured I could go anywhere and do whatever I needed to do to be able to be there, so went and got a job in the ag sector there while she was working at North Colorado Medical Center, which was actually working for free, finishing her degree.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: From there we went to Nebraska, was there for a couple of years working as a commodity futures and options broker, and then moved back to Willow County to try and ranch with my dad broker and then move back to willow county, try and ranch with my dad.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: Commodities, futures and options regarding like cattle and stuff like that right right, right.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: So commodity a futures contract is a specific um, for it's the price of a contract.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: The contract is a specific quantity and quality.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: So an easy one would be like wheat, it's a 5 000 bushel contract of a specific grade and it has a deliverable time frame.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: And the way we use that is for hedging or or managing risk.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: We can as a with a farmer customer.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: We can do it would be like a substitute sale and that way if the wheat market goes down it would make money on the trade to offset losses in the cash value of the crop they're growing.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: So it's like guaranteeing the price of something, as long as the producer can guarantee the quantity and quality.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Well, most people don't deliver them.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: You end up just lifting the hedge.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: So you make a short sale, whatever happens.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Market goes up, market goes down.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: You end up buying it back and then selling your cash crop locally.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: So very, very few people are actually delivering against those, but they are deliverable.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: They do get delivered against and that's what helps keep the paper value of a commodity contract with the actual cash market.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: Gotcha Lisa.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: I'm Lisa Collier.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: I am a mother of seven plus, because some of those kids are now married and adults and all of that.
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: I guess if you're going to get married, you'd like to be an adult, so that I don't have to say they're young.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: I am the mayor of Joseph.
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: I've been a teacher for a really long time.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: I married my high school sweetheart.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: We both graduated from Joseph High School and I was a pain in the butt kid.
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: No teacher really ever liked me.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Devin can ask his family A lot of them are teachers but fell in love with education actually somewhere along the way.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Went to Eastern Oregon University to get my bachelor's in health and communications, then went back to Eastern Oregon University to get my master's in teaching and then went on to Northwest Nazarene to get almost my administration degree for public schools.
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: I was supposed to finish that this summer but I've had a really busy summer, so looking forward to wrapping that up in the fall.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Just been raising kids and loving and serving the community and love people, love connecting all of that.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Other things that I've done in the past when we first got out of high school I opened up a child care and then, spread out throughout the years, was a waitress, did some restaurant management, worked for the Forest Service and Discovery or Northwest, which is an interpretive position out of the Forest Service.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: I've done a lot of different things and just mostly surrounding service.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, cool mostly surrounding service.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah Cool being a bad student, uh, which I am also a member of that club.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: I think I've since apologized to every teacher that I ever had.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Certainly you know, through secondary education.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Um, did that give you more compassion or understanding for for kids that maybe weren't suited for that standard school environment?
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: Definitely, and I think that that has really served me well.
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: Um, being a teacher and being um, my husband and I have done a lot of work with at-risk youths and foster kids and um, not that I was ever a foster kid, but I think I would put myself in the at-risk youth category for different reasons.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: But I think that that gives you that eye and that heart for picking them out and feeling more compassionate about not letting them slip through the cracks and then, as at-risk and trauma kids grow up, they become at-risk and trauma adults sometimes and so just trying to just being able to recognize their challenges and their barriers and how to help and where to try to step in, and it just gives you just more understanding and compassion for the way that the others work, I think.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I was not a good student.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: I think that without the threshold of staying eligible in sports, I probably would not have stayed in school.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: But super thankful too, because I think going through it several benefits I am in contact with many of my teachers that I've had and administrators, and I love them, and just building that, those relationships and those contacts, and then also just looking out for the future of kids, all kids and all people.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: The, the format of school, the way it is today and the way it was, you know, when I went through it it's it's just not for everybody, and there's some really smart kids who are struggling and might feel like they're stupid because they're not doing as well, and uh, and that's just not the case.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: It's just not the case.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree, and I think also COVID was bad for all sorts of reasons we don't need to talk about, but good in the way that it really did force a reform on education.
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: So I think actually our schools are better for having lived through COVID it.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: It created a morph, so to speak, in the way we reach kids and the way we serve kids and and we've held on to a lot of that post COVID of we still can serve them in so many ways.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: We don't have to go back to the sit in your seat and look me in the eyes.
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: Those are good skills but not every kid can do that.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, it sounds super basic.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: Not every kid can do that.
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: So I am happy that we I think we're better schools and a better educational system because of COVID.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah Well, that's great, we'll take it.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: We'll take any win we can get.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, first, question, just real, generally what is a county commissioner, how tasked with administering county governance over the handful of departments Like I mean the road department, the weed department, different things and provide some oversight to those and managing a budget?
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Wallowa County has three different counties of different sizes.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Obviously.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I think I've heard as many as seven in some.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, lisa.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: What would you add to that?
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: I would agree with everything that Devin said, but I would add to speaking for the citizens, you're elected to handle business for the citizens.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Yes, you are supervising and supporting all of these amazing employees in all of these different departments, managing the budget, and I also think being connected to the people is a big thing, and it's something that I'm definitely passionate about.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: I think that you need to be integrated into the community so you can represent the people and you know what they say, need, want.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: What discussions are they having?
• 13:24
  Speaker 3: What are their hardships?
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: What are?
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: Where is their family?
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: What are their names?
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: What is their dog's name?
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: What do they do for a living?
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: You know, I just think, um, so much of that comes into play in in every, I think every way, um, and and knowing your people um only benefits you.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: It's it makes you approachable.
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: They know your face, they know your name, they know your phone number.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: If they need help, they're going to reach out.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: You're not foreign.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: So I really believe in those relationships, the connections, and that's going to help you do all the other things.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: Another thing that's not so interesting, but very important or not so fun it's not so interesting, but very important or not so fun, the people part is fun, but you're in charge of essentially managing, maintaining, changing.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: If that's the direction ordinances, policies, procedures we're really bound by those and we really need to be out of all.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: Equality and fairness.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: I mean, everybody goes through the same gate and I really believe in that.
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: But are those policies something we want to stick to, or are they 60 years old and that's not the way we want to do things anymore?
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: And some of that is what we're going through in the city of Joseph of.
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: There are a lot of outdated ordinances and a lot of outdated policies and they make reference to positions we no longer have, things in society we no longer do.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: And so just updating and making sure that you feel good about those policies, procedures, ordinances, all of those rules that we hold people to, yeah.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: And so much more, because I'm not a county commissioner and so, do I know everything they do?
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: No, I don't.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: But in a nutshell, that's my understanding of it.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so much more.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: I also think that you, um, you you are are responsible for your relationships surrounding the County.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, we've got, we've got um neighboring counties that we uh, collaborate with a lot.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: And then also there's the ever daunting, you know, for people.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: Salem, you know, am I afraid to get in the car and go drive to Salem and have a conversation first thing in the morning?
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: No, you know, I can do that now.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: Um, so yeah, that's a part of it too.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, You've, you've, you've got to get to Salem, You've got to get to DC and you know a lot of times you know if you're fighting for something that will allow county cares about, it's going to be something that's going to get overridden at the state level in salem so you just have to skip that step and go straight to dc and then override the state and they do have this very fabulous policy in salem, and I I'm not going to try to verbatim it because I I would get it wrong but if you, if you drive over so many miles to see them, they will see you.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: If you're within the close boundary of the miles, you have to make an appointment, and so I think that if we're willing to go there and we're far enough away, they're going to hear what we have to say, and I think that's important too right, because typically you're going to have between 60 and 120 seconds to speak and you're going to have 12 or 14 hours of windshield time in order to do it yeah the six ranch podcast is brought to you by nick's handmade boots, a family-owned company in spokane, washington.
• 16:57
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• 18:11
  Speaker 1: Devin, what were you going to say?
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I just I wanted to add in with with that, with Salem and DC, it's being an advocate for the county and, and I actually think Joe Dawson, he actually used the word lobbyist when I was visiting with him about this and in the past of course he did that.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Of course Joe would.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: But yeah, being willing to actively engage with both sides friendly and, let's say, opposed Congress people, state reps, senators, the governor and being active and engaged and being able to advocate for the needs of the county as a whole.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: How Joe has managed to avoid this podcast over the last five years is kind of amazing, and I think it's that he and I have like mutual sympathy for how busy our lives are.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: But I'm putting him on notice right now the fuse is burning short Joe Dawson, I love Dawson.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Some of my favorite phone conversations are when I'm just driving down the road and I got to call Joe about something.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: And I end up talking about all this other stuff, and I'm, you know, having earbuds on a Bluetooth headset while I'm working.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I see him at the hardware store when neither of us is in a good place, because we're both there to get something that is broken.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: Can I add on to that?
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: I'm so sorry.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: We're on question one.
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: Are we on question one or two?
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: We're not even on question one yet, but I do want to add something to what you said, lisa.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: There's a bunch of leadership traits and principles in the Marine Corps that kind of get carved into your soul while you're there, and one of them that is you know, a pretty concise way of what I feel like you were describing is know your Marines and look out for their welfare Such a hugely important quality in leaders.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: It's like you can't take care of people unless you know what's going on in their lives and fortunately, and sometimes very unfortunately, in Willow County we tend to know we tend to know but it does.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: It does take some effort and it takes further effort to get to the bottom of it.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: So go on with what you were going to say and then we'll we'll move on to the next.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: I was just going to add to what Devin and I were talking about, about Salem.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: I wanted to add, though you can just drive there, and that is a, that is a freedom or a strategy that you have.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: I do believe that we have to cultivate those relationships too first.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's proactive, that's preemptive.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: We're going to need those people.
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: We have to build a relationship.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: I don't want the first time they meet me to be when I am fighting the good fight for Wallowa County and I just show up.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: I want to cultivate those relationships first, so they know who I am, and so I just think that's a big.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: Relationships is huge for all the way down to an individual and all the way up to Washington DC.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: Building those relationships is a big part of it.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree, yeah.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: High five.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: You guys are doing great.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, on the way up here to the studio, you drove on a dirt road and at times this dirt road throughout the year is impassable by, say, a sedan or something like that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Wallowa County has 700 miles of road.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: 300 are paved and 400 are rock or dirt.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: What is your vision for transportation in Wallowa County, starting with Lisa?
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Sure, it's very important and I've been on a lot of the roads that are what I would say just dangerous, you know, any time of year Definitely paying attention to the safety of the roads, to the safety of the roads, I said at our last forum and Susan was there and she's the road guru for sure but I would like to see a priority list of roads and I want to know why they're in the priority, how much maintenance they get, who goes out there, how regular that is.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: That's stuff I need to learn.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: But I definitely think there needs to be strategy and resources and time, and I think there is.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: We have a whole road department making sure that it's funded correctly.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: I know they have some new equipment and so that's a big financial outlay.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: That already happened, so that's good news.
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: We shouldn't be burdened with that cost for a while.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: But just the upkeep of even vehicles and equipment.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: The more proactive you can be and treat your stuff well, the better it's going to last Pouring knowledge and support into your people.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: But I just think going out and I was on a lot of those roads when I worked for the Forest Service actually going out and seeing the roads and knowing where they are and knowing what kind of status they're in is important, and I have a lot to learn in that in that department, because I don't know all the things, but definitely, whatever season it's, in making sure that they're passable and safe.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: And then I think, when they're not, or if they're not communicating out what kind of vehicle is needed, I think people, sometimes people go exploring or they're going to go mushroom hunting or they're going to go try to hike somewhere and they don't have the knowledge that that wouldn't be a safe idea for the vehicle that they're in.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: And so I think, communicating about the roads too, but the overall quality, just even for the people who live there on those roads one of the ones, and I mentioned it at the forum and it just in a funny way, but not so funny because, like leap lane, I know there are students out there on leap lane that drive to school every day throughout the year and just making sure that that they're safe is is important yeah, uh, I used to carry skis and snowshoes in high school in my rig because a lot of the times I'd be coming up the hill and it's like nope, not happening.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: And you know it's a.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: It's a small road department, it's a big county.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: So for sure.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Devin.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: What's your vision for transportation in Wallowa County?
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: improvement.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I do want to say I also had to be a little bit wary.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: Where I grew up was at the end of about a mile and a half stretch of gravel road, most of it county.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: In the last about half a mile was private but there was definitely some windstorms with the snow drifts coming over, where the road department didn't have anything to do with that but it was, you know, making sure we could uh park down at don huff's house and ride home.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Have dad pick us up in a tractor or something yeah or that there was times I remember from uh 2007 basketball game where we just stayed in town like we were in town sure.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: It was drifted in.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: There was no way we were making it home.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and anyway.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at that forum the county roads got brought up and I agree with Lisa about the prioritization of the.
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Let's just focus on the, the gravel roads, for for a moment, and the, the main vein roads.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: Like you got crow creek, you got zoom while you got leap sure whatever the others are those are some examples yeah and yes yes, and I think that one of the issues that we're seeing is that the roads need to be maintained more than they are, partly because of the way they're being maintained, and an example of that is where the blade operators end up leaving when they're done blading the road.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: They leave it too flat.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: As a result, water will sit on it and then you end up getting potholes really quickly instead of being able to maintain something of a dome so that a crown so that the water sheds off.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: If you maintain the road well, it won't need to be maintained as often, so that's fewer miles on the equipment.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Be maintained as often, so that's fewer miles on the equipment.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: Trying to find a way to properly incentivize the county department employees in that way, I think, will be critical, but also, to a degree that's more of the responsibility of the roadmaster, and I think there's been a little bit too much micromanaging of the roadmasters that we've had in the past the one that we had up until last year, I think he quit.
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: It sounded like that was a big reason why he quit and I know quite a few people that were really happy with him.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I know my uncle gave an example where, when he called about their road over off of Liberty Road on the south side of the highway that he called and the guy actually came out, tansey, and he came out and was like, yeah, I agree, this road is a problem and I've got 700 miles of this.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: So it was at least communicating and understanding.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: And we lost that guy.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: And I think, as a commissioner, one of the important things to do and I'm going to crib a little bit from uh military leadership.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Jocko willink um saying oh, we're talking about seals now.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we got grief a little bit all right, um, just I.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I really enjoy um his leadership messaging, but a lot of it is.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: A good leader communicates the commander's intent and then lets the people do the job.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Instead of saying here's exactly what I want you to do.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: All of these things, yeah, a good roadmaster and properly incentivize them and say a lot of this, you.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: It's up to you to figure out the best way to do it, and we're here to support and do the best we can to provide the resources, whether it's going out and hunting up some more grants or just making sure that you got what you need to do the job and not getting in the middle of it and micromanaging.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: And here's some guidance.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Perhaps here's an idea, but it's your department Go for it, yeah, and that that is definitely the way leadership is taught, and and my, my preferred form of of leadership, especially with commander's intent, is like you tell somebody what needs to be done, when it needs to be done and why it needs to be done, the why being very, very important.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: If you tell somebody how to do something, you'll usually get exactly what you asked for and nothing more, and there might be a much more efficient way or imaginative or creative way that you would not have come up with yourself.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: The backside reality of that is you have to trust everyone and inspect everything, so you have to inspect what you expect, and that that follow through is important for everybody involved, right, um, and it can be very uncomfortable, but it's also really positive, um, moving on to the next one, with a population of 7,000 people, we house the largest wilderness in the state of Oregon the Eagle Cap Wilderness.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: The Wallowa Lake State Park alone hosts over 270,000 people per year.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Should we receive outside funding to support public safety and road maintenance for these visitors to our county?
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Let's start with Devin county start with devon.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: So outside funding meaning state or federal government funding for visitors to a federal wilderness area.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: Is that just to clarify the question?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: well, we have a?
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Um, we have a federal wilderness area, we have a state park?
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: Um, we have a lot of outside traffic that's coming in and they aren't necessarily contributing to the road maintenance, contributing to the county in a financial way that the county budget actually gets to realize and then utilize.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: So do you think that we should receive outside funding for that, or it be um that this is, this is public, and if they have access to the wilderness and access to the, to the park and access to the county, that they should be able to do it?
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I I I'm certainly open to the idea that there should be a way to capitalize those visitors in ways to help support the infrastructure more than just they buy gas and the gas tax goes to the state and then we got to try and claw it back.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: Um, I'm not going to sit here and say that I've got some solutions or real concrete ideas.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Besides, maybe something of a I don't know if you can do like a local, seasonal, local sales tax over the summertime that's just implemented here.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Actually, I was visiting with somebody after the housing meeting in Joseph last night that was saying I believe Coos Bay has something like that, which I thought that was kind of an interesting idea that I hadn't heard of, which would be able to capitalize on the visitors as they are here spending their money.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: That it's here, it's kept local.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Like a non-resident toll booth or something something I'm sure there's all kinds of legalities around that.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the hard, the hard part about saying you know there should be funding provided from both the federal government and the state for that reason is say you go for it, you make that case, you fight for it, you get form of a grant or whatever, and then one year they say nope, not this year.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: Well, you start to rely on that and it can just be pulled just as easily.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: So trying to come up with something that's more under the local control, the purview of the county to manage the funding, I think is a better solution than just saying to the state or to the feds hey, you owe us money for this reason yeah, lisa, what you got um, well, I think a lot of different things, and then I'm going to throw out the caveat I always need to learn more, and so I think that's with all of you, probably all of these questions.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: I I always need to learn more, and so I think that's with all of the probably all of these questions I always need to learn more.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Is it fair to say you, I like to say I reserve the right to make wise changes to my opinion, our mo?
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: um in joseph um, the influx of visitors way outweighs the residents and they're on our roads, sidewalks, garbage, all all there are.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: There are side effects from so many visitors and our tax base can't support um.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: So it's the same.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: Up at the lake, whether they're um, enjoying our, our state park, our wilderness area, our tram, our restaurants, are all of it.
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: We don't get their tax base, um kind of um.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: We do get some benefits and are eligible for some money from the state park and I think they're really good community partners.
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: I think also the same thing about the US Forest Service.
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: There are some benefits there, there's some collaboration.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: I'm not quite sure about funding.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: I'm just not as familiar with that piece, unless they're backpacking up into the wilderness, which actually are very few of them.
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, we have a lot of people up in the wilderness but most people are staying here locally and then in that way we get some hotel and motel tax money to then reintegrate back into our community.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: So we are getting some money from them to help with different things.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Is that as much money as we need for our water and our sewer systems and all of that?
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: Probably not, but they're not really getting off scot-free either.
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: So I mean I think it's a balance.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: State Parks also are great partners in the way that we are eligible for funding.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: I mean the State Park grant is either 100% or a big lion's share of the sports complex down in Enterprise, and they did some work on the bridge at the Tam Calix grounds.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: They have sponsored and helped with funding in the city of Joseph.
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: So we're getting money back for things for locals to enjoy as well as visitors, and that hotel-motel tax money does go for some really great things.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: The transient lodging tax.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah so, and that's.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: The county gets a slice of that, and so does each city.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Um, so we are getting some money back.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: As far, does it go for roads?
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: I don't think so, you know so sure is it going towards the things that you spoke of?
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't think so, but there is a benefit.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: There's money coming Gotcha.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Okay, Hunting is very important to me.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: It's very important to a lot of people in Wallowa County and even to those who don't hunt here.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: They're very interested in our natural resources and in our wildlife and the health of our wildlife.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: Currently our mule deer population is lower than it has been since the early 1900s.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Food insecurity in Wallowa County is between 12 and 14 percent, meaning about one in eight people has insecurity about the amount of food that they have.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Do either of you have a plan for the problem with mule deer decline and sort of the tedious nature that we have with access to hunting for food these days?
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: I'll start yeah, you didn't assign somebody, but I'll go ahead, I think.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: I think I'm first the last question.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: You're good, that's good um, I'll be brave, I would challenge your numbers to say that our food insecurity is about 24 countywide, so it's much higher than anybody realizes.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: Um, the yeah, the families that are food insecure in this county.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: It's staggering.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Um, hunting, I mean divisive topic, but um, looking for your input too, because you're the professional in this way more than me.
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: But I think that the decline in mule, deer and elk numbers also has to do with the wolves and I have to be very careful with that subject.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: But that's it's my opinion, based off of a bunch of research that I have done in the last year and I know that doesn't sound like very long.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: But in pursuit of this new job, I've just tried to immerse myself in it and I've learned a lot.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: I went to the to immerse myself in it and I've learned a lot.
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: I went to the Wolfkill confirmation class that was in Umatilla County in January and several others like that.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: I attend the NRAC meeting once a month.
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: That was actually just this morning.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: There's not an NRAC meeting that goes by that this is not a subject.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: I think two months ago.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: What's NRAC for those that don't?
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: know the Natural Resource.
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure what the A stands for.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: Committee.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Advisory, advisory.
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: Advisory, john Williams, who's really knowledgeable about the wolves and the wildlife movement and decline.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: He pointed out that about how many wolves we have in the county and that each year, an adult wolf will consume 22 elk.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: That's staggering, that's a lot.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: So it ended up being and I don't want to get the numbers wrong and misquote John, but it ends up being like 1200 elk a year then.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: So I think that we can't ignore the fact that there's decline in numbers due to that, and so I think that a healthy relationship with ODF&W is important.
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: I actually had a one-on-one meeting with the new director of ODF&W last month.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: I think that some exciting things are coming our way.
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: I think that, as a whole, we're all hoping for and I think that she's hoping for to a more proactive approach.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: Willow County is on a very reactive approach and I attended those town halls with the Lost Dean community over all of those, those devastating losses there and I saw you there, james, and um.
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: People are um this is not exactly what you asked, but people are um it, they're devastated, they're um some.
• 40:31
  Speaker 3: Some ranchers have lost, you know, 12 livestock and it's just, it's, it's staggering.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: So I do think that that's tied to hunting.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Hunting is also really important to my family too.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: We go out and hunt every year.
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: My son planned a wedding, uh, for hunting season opening weekend, and we're just not really happy about that.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: But we're gonna let him get married.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: My cousin robert butterfield did that which, if you know that's a shocking thing.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: I know that just means they don't want people to come like if something will be cheaper for us, yeah if somebody has a september, october november wedding season like I, I get it.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Um, you know best.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I'll send an Amazon gift card or something, but I'm going to be there.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: Well, and then the other issue with the wildlife on the move is, and then this is getting like way out into the weeds, I think.
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: But just something that's on my mind as far as hunting and then, and then wildlife numbers and all of that they're being pushed away from where, like, the good feed is and so like then that, then that affects the game and you know all of it.
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: So I mean it's an issue that I don't have all the answers for, but I'm definitely in the conversations trying to find solutions.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: Uh, want to find the solutions.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: I don't have a solid, a solid answer.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: The whole thing was about food insecurity.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: I think we can do a lot of work in the community surrounding food and access to food and we can remove stigmas of what stereotypes of what we think people look like that need food, because we're wrong.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: I mean there are a lot, of, a lot of families that I clearly I'm not going to say on the podcast, but that you'd be shocked that they have trouble finding food or that food is expensive and you know we all can relate to.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: We can go to the grocery store and what used to cost $100 was a arm load bags so heavy that you bring in from the car and they cut your circulation off your arms, to now three bags two bags, you know so it's, it's, uh, it's also a it's an economics issue yeah, yeah, devon
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: so.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: So if we want to talk about wolves, we can talk about wolves.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: You specifically mentioned mule deer.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: We're going to talk about wolves a little bit more later.
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the mule deer problem Is primarily mountain lions and that's all been down from the 1994 Ban.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know what the ballot measure was, but when the lovely people of Oregon Decided that we weren't going to be able to use hounds to hunt lions because that's an unfair advantage.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: But that is, it's a management tool and the thing that it allows is for the houndsmen.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: And what people don't realize is that you go to Montana, you go to Idaho which I'm not going to claim that I've done this, I just have spent, uh, quite a bit of time I, I grew up hunting.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: This is this is an area with which I have passion.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I, unfortunately, with my young family and all the work um that I've been going doing I, I realized I enjoy hunting so much that I don't want to do it rushed.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: And I've had not very many years where I felt like I could go hunting and not have it be.
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: And I've had not very many years where I felt like I could go hunting and not have it be rushed.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: I would rather not go because I enjoy it that much that I don't like rushing.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: I I want to enjoy the whole process and experience.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: But the thing that houndsmen in places like montana, idaho and wyoming, I believe, is they want lions.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: They're not out to get rid of them all, they want lions to go chase.
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: And just because they tree something doesn't mean they're going to knock it out of the tree.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: They're going.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: We're looking for a big tom, or maybe they're doing population control and they're specifically aiming for females and leaving that old tom, as long as he's not causing livestock problems or something, because they'll maintain the social order on the mountain.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: But the population has definitely gotten out of control and a lion will eat a deer a week, so each one around.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: I think the population exploded from what like 1,500 to well over 5,000 in the state.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, over 6,000 now.
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: Over 6,000 now well over 5 000 in the state, yeah, over 6 000, now over 6 000 now and uh oregon puts out over 70 000 mountain lion tags a year, which, uh, the hunters end up getting around 300.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and the season's?
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: What?
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: 11 months long it's all year it's all, it's not.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: They don't even have a time that it's out.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah it's all year um two tags per person resident Resident and non-resident tags are $16.50.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: The success rate of mountain lion in Oregon is the lowest success rate of any hunt in America.
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: I've never seen one, yeah, in the wild, and I can just about guarantee they've seen me.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Which kind of is something that makes me stop and think?
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: So that I think okay, being ever the advocate.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: So if we're identifying that as as the problem, then what is your solution as a county commissioner?
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: unfortunately, the solution has to be done at the state level.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: But being an advocate on uh on behalf of, I guess, conservation of a species, if we're picking and choosing, the hard part about picking a predator over a prey animal is the predator already has the advantage, and with the endangered species that are just trying to conserve or be more protectionist to one species over another, it just doesn't work that well.
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: So advocating for and trying to push to get that repealed and trying to uh help balance the whole ecosystem where we recognize that we as humans are a part of it and that's something that I think a lot of people that prioritize conservation and protection of the ecosystem is they leave humans out of it.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Humans have always been a part of the ecosystem and we are the apex predator.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: And having more tools to be able to manage the predator problem so that the for lack of a better term prey species, the other game animals, the deer, the elk, whether it's whitetail, mule, deer, whatever can uh have a better chance of population success.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Now, tying that back into food insecurity that you brought up, uh, I know.
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: Right now to the wolf issue uh, one of the problems that we're having with wolves is they're actually out on the zumal prairie and everywhere and pushing, resulting in those elk herds, particularly here in the fall when things start to dry up, to come into the valley and there's a lot of damage being done in alfalfa fields, timothy fields, oat fields, everything, peas, uh, nightly and they shifted from it being from each landowner having damage tags to and basically an over-the-counter damage cow, elk tag that anybody can buy and hunt from here at the end of august all the way through the end of the year first of 31st, 1st of August 1st of August.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Yep, and I don't know when our season closes, if it's the end of November or the end of December.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: But you could then go right over to Hermiston and go all the way through March.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: All the way through the end of March.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: So I think there's definitely some room to crib onto stuff they've done in the Midwest with whitetail population, where they have organizations like Hunters Feeding the Hungry, where you've got people that just like to go hunt and don't necessarily need all the meat for themselves and certainly don't want it to go to waste, but actually having a food bank or something.
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think that there is some room to do some stuff like that, particularly with those damaged cow elk hunts, to do some stuff like that, particularly with those damaged cow elk hunts.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: And ultimately, I think it would be good with back to predator management, getting more active on the wolf side, trying to take the pressure off of those elk herds that, in the fall particularly, is pushing them into the valley.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: I completely agree with you.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: I think for these surplus elk populations that are causing crop damage it would be wonderful to have a program and infrastructure that allowed hunters to move that into a food bank system so that we could use hunting to reduce that crop damage and help out folks that need food.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: I want to tack something else on.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: This isn't with wildlife, but with as many cow herds as we have around here, finding, uh, a better way for ranchers who have a down cow cow breaks her leg or you know, two bulls start fighting and one of a third bull comes up and breaks one of them right in the back, like breaks a femur or something like stuff happens and um, the hard part is that in the summertime, with the grass-finished beef market around here being so hot for locker beef, when you're selling beef by the half of the whole animal, the custom cut shops like Valley Meats down in Wallowa or all the way over, I mean everywhere through the grass season, they're booked up, they're booked up.
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: I mean if I was to call right now and say, hey, I have a beef that I'd like to just have have cut and wrapped, they'd say, well, we could maybe get you in in february yeah, it's.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: It's extremely difficult for us as a business as well.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: You know we're, we're hauling, you know, over four hours, one way to get to for usda to get to a facility for us and we have to book that a year in advance.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: So I think that maybe there's some room to streamline and make the process easier for somebody to donate a downed animal that would otherwise be wasted if you can't get them cut.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I mean two years ago.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: And we can donate wild game to the food bank right now.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: We cannot, we can, we can, okay yeah.
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: So that's legal.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: So that's not USDA.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: That's not.
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: That's butchered on a tailgate.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: But you start running into difficulties when it's domestic livestock, which is problematic.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: And I know that's been worked on a little bit.
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: I just don't know all the details.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: And it's also hook space and I don't know if there's some way to explore um a incentivizing the, the custom cut shops that aren't usda inspected anyway but still having them um, not butchered on a tailgate but actually cut and wrapped and frozen and good it's not for resale um, but when they just don't have the capacity, that doesn't really work that well anyway sometimes.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you can make it work.
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: I know a couple of years ago my mom called me on a sunday afternoon.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: They were loading coal, a truck full of coal, cows and bulls, and while they were sorting and figuring stuff out, a bull basically ran the length of by two others and they didn't think anything of it until about 40 minutes later he just went down and kind of stopped breathing, and so it was about the third week of July and 90 degrees on a Sunday and my mom called me and said can you come help?
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: And so I grabbed David Bates and some knives and we went out there because they still had to load a truck and they've got.
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: So we just showed up to get it hung and they'd already called and silvera was was cool and he, he took that and it was just, it was just ground and we were able to.
• 52:29
  Speaker 2: I think they gave a lot of it away good, um, but that we were able to salvage that animal.
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: But that's sort of a a kind of a long shot, unless it happens in the winter time when everybody's slow, but but finding a way to get more of that into food banks and and having you know an an easier process where they can say, take a tax write-off on that donation, yeah, and maybe there's a tax write-off for the cutter Sure, for doing the grinding and everything and trying to make that an easier, yes, yeah, yeah, you get what you incentivize.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm, okay, next question.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: You ready for another question?
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: Sure, cool, you're going to be up first, evan.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: Oftentimes, commissioners work closely with state lawmakers.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: If you could advocate for one legislative change in the state of oregon, what would it be?
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: one legislative change in the state of oregon.
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: Anything that I come up with is going to be keeping more local control over our problems.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: I know it's a really easy thing to say well, if we push that responsibility off to the state, then it's a little bit simpler.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: Then we just got to go ask them for the money to take care of it.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: But I'm much more of an advocate of problems solutions that finding solutions that are closest to the source of the problem is is a better solution.
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: I mean it's better in the long run.
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: It's like the way we would solve something here is different than the way they'd solve something in salem, and that's that's different than what way we'd solve something in dc if they were going to do a blanket policy for the whole country or salem being a blanket policy for the whole state.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: That wouldn't really work for us here because we are a unique demographic compared to the average.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: So whether it's so there's an example of that that's going to come up in this legislative session, which is that there's going to be up in this legislative session, which is that there's going to be a bill that recommends that counties individually vote on whether they can use hounds to pursue mountain lions, something that you talked about earlier.
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: So that would be an example of something where you would get local control over something, but it's a statewide legislative action yes, that that would be a good example and that if, if the idea that the state won't um reverse that 94 ban as a whole, but that that's an option, is going county by county, I think that's a great option and I I would advocate for that.
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, it's just tough the the way that the system is set up to, where all of our property taxes, all of our everything leaves and goes to salem, and then we got to go try and get it back to be able to fund stuff if I could find a way to have, like a local collection of property taxes or for school levy weeds, whatever, where it doesn't have to go get sorted through, sifted through, skimmed in every which way from all the different bureaucracies to where we can.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: It can be more effective on stuff like that.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Kept more local gotcha.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: so I want to be less beholden to outside influences.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I like local control too, lisa, same question.
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: I like local control too.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: Let me restate it for you Sure, oftentimes commissioners work closely with state lawmakers.
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: If you could advocate for one legislative change in the state of Oregon, what would it be?
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: There are so many things that pop into my head, but just one um.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: Right now I deal with a lot of poverty-level people and there are so many examples in that.
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: Whether we're talking about food or access to things, the poverty level federal guidelines can help people get resources that just truly cannot.
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: They can't afford rent or they can't in the way of people getting help, and we can go into a whole situation about government handouts and all of that, and that's not what I am here to advocate for or say.
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: That's not what I'm here to advocate for or say.
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: But I've seen where people are denied housing or they and a federal issue because I think the Oregon guidelines, they don't match up or make sense with the federal guidelines and I just have seen people fall into this kind of no man's land where they don't make enough money to have A but they don't qualify for B, and so it's.
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: There's this very um, vulnerable, at risk population of our people that are not getting help and things are very, very hard for them that they're they're not matching up correctly with the, with the guidelines, and that could be like access to health care and access to I mean a lot of things that that others below that line, even if they make ten dollars more.
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: You know it, it aces them out.
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: And so I just think, making sure that we're doing the best that we can do and again it's a balance because it's tax dollars and it's this whole other bigger issue and discussion but I would like to dive into making sure that our vulnerable population and again that could be senior citizens on a fixed income, or I mean a lot of people fall into this very vulnerable space where I don't feel like they're getting what they need.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: I want to point out, I guess a perspective that I have, where you're drawing the distinction between the state and federal guidelines regarding the poverty level and what you qualify for and what you don't, is all of that's only as accurate and as good as the person tasked over it at the state or the federal level, and that, to me, it's.
• 59:50
  Speaker 2: This isn't really a a county thing, but a general philosophy of the more centralized and bureaucratic the process is to solve any kind of a problem, the the worse it is, and I I'm I'm a market guy, and I think a great example of this is is in the old soviet union, where they had, you know, the czar of deciding what everything should be priced as, and every day they had to make the czar of deciding what everything should be priced as, and every day they had to make pricing decisions instead of letting a marketplace of bids and offers and and trying to uh curb the supply and demand of something which, if we're talking about the supply and demand of services towards people around hovering around the poverty line, uh, but in the soviet union it was famously like mole skins and if, if the czar over deciding uh what the value of a mole skin was thought it picked it as too high.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Well, they'd just get this giant oversupply of mole skins, which the government bought at the price because that was what the guy said they were worth, and it was like 26, I forget.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: It's some ridiculous number of pricing decisions they had to make every day, instead of just letting it go and not having it be centralized sure because inflation changes and what was working on the poverty line last year, two years ago, suddenly that doesn't even work.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: But by the guidelines I still don't even qualify and and furthermore it's.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: It's a really tough thing where, where you say, you know we, we have this, these resources for these people who need it, but you get more what you incentivize, unfortunately, and then you get people instead of like.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: You hear stories all the time about somebody saying I was offered a promotion and I didn't take it because I would have lost my housing, I would have lost my snap or whatever or somebody can't work more hours at their job like I.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: I can only work this many hours at the restaurant this week, otherwise I'm going to lose, you know, um, the subsidy that I'm getting right, and I won't be able to afford my life.
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, that's a massive problem.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: I would love to see the incentive go the other direction, where it's like no, we, we want you to work more, we want more stability within our economy and infrastructure through labor, rather than, you know, tax, tax dollars that go up and trickle back down a good, a good basic example.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: That, um that I can still still remember from one of my early economics courses in college was you know, if somebody could theoretically work zero hours but get, like, say, $20,000 from the government and all the various different kinds of assistance, or they could work full time and make $40,000, in net, you're effectively working full time for $20,000.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: Because I could work nothing and get $20,000.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: So I'm working full time to get an additional $40,000 in net.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: You're effectively working full-time for $20,000, because I could work nothing and get 20.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: So I'm working full-time to get an additional 20.
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: And so the unfortunately, the programs kind of disincentivize deciding to go out and say I'm going to make something and I'm going to go to work because I'm the, the, the reward for right the effort has been effectively cut by that amount and it's really tough because this isn't really something that goes on at the county level.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: This is state and federal policy and nothing that we do is really going to impact that, impact that.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: But I I do think it's worth saying if we can figure out ways to not get more of it or incentivize or chase more of it, that would be better.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: yeah, okay, last question, and then we'll move to some close closing thoughts.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Uh, a lot of stock growers, a lot of people, a lot of stock growers, a lot of people, a lot of wildlife in Wallowa County have been pretty negatively affected by wolves over the last 15 years or so.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: But there's another one coming, which is the grizzly.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: So grizzlies are being actively introduced into Washington state.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: They're being increasingly displaced out of the greater Yellowstone ecosystem, traveling greater distances throughout the state of Idaho, and it's only a matter of time until grizzlies end up in Wallowa County.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: What are your thoughts around that as county commissioners?
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: Because in my opinion, this will be the first place in Oregon that grizzlies show up.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: I went first last time.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll start with.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: Lisa, yeah, I definitely have read about it, thought about it, know it's coming, I think, a strong voice working with ODF and W.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 3: I think that we've learned a lot through our life with wolves and what might be again.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: It's a scary thing because our lives lie in the hands of someone at the state level.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 3: But, like I said, I think that our new director I have hopes that our new director has a more proactive stance and is ready for conversations like this.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: But I think we can't be asleep at the wheel.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: We have to be proactive.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: We have to, before they get here, say what are we going to do, what are our, what are our tools, what are we allowed to do?
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: What would your policy be?
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't necessarily agree with the wolf policy right now, and so that's really tough because I feel like, are they going to align somewhere there?
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: You know, um are there, I think I'd say.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: Are there tags available?
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: Um, can they be hunted?
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: You know, I I think that just letting them go and run and see what happens we're going to be, it's going to be way too late, um.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: So I think, before they get here, having a plan in place to um minimize the impact as, uh as much as we can, um tracking their whereabouts, tracking how close they are, um I my personal opinion, that again needs to learn more, but I think that sounds like a really bad idea.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: So, and I don't know, I mean, I think that where, when you read, and then again, you have to be careful what you read and what the source is, but where wolves maybe aren't a danger to people, we read and we know that grizzly bears are, and so that makes it different to, in my mind, that we need to be more aggressive in what we actually will allow.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: I don't have a good answer, but I know that a problem is coming and that we need to be very much on the front lines of of in those conversations for sure.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we had.
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: We had a wolf management plan before we had wolves.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: That didn't.
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: That didn't help us Devin.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: What'd you got?
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point about the wolf management plan.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: We had it and that was the idea.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, let's have a plan for what we're going to do, but when ODF and W has basically proven that they're just going to add on little rules and this and that and just keep putting up barriers to any kind of management outside of the management plan, we can't really trust them to stick to their word or stick to what they're supposed to do.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: Uh, with regards to anything, any new apex predator and and lisa's absolutely right like grizzly bears, a population here probably wouldn't have a dramatic impact on the game species, the wilderness areas where some unknowing hikers just walking along doesn't realize that they've threatened something, that can absolutely tear them apart yeah uh, that's it's.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: It's something that we need to fight tooth and nail and say, no, we, we do not need grizzly bears here.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: I think there's going to be a group of people that think about the bears, like the wolves, like, oh yeah, that well, they belong out there.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 2: And I have a lot of sympathy on the wolf issue for the, the sheep producers down around lostine that are right close to town that are having that, have been having those problems all spring yeah, some of them within city limits, some of them them within, or even I mean at least just right on the edge.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: But repeatedly, and I think that there's quite a few people that think, oh yeah, well, you know, wolves belong out there on the landscape.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: They might think bears belong out there on the landscape and not realizing that they don't stay out there on the landscape where they belong.
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: I think there's been a few people on the wolf issue that thought well, you know, you ranchers that have your cow herds out there in big canyon lands and out on the prairie and where the wolves belong, well, that's kind of your problem if you want to have your cattle, your animals where the wolves belong.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: But it's not until they start knocking on the back door into these small five-acre parcels where it becomes a problem and the bears will do the same thing.
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: I can remember a there was a case upper I think it was bonners ferry, idaho, about 10 years ago where a grizzly bear had gotten into a family's 4-h pig pen and the dad shot the bear because it was broad daylight and he got thrown in jail for shooting a protected species, at least in America or in the lower 48, because they're not endangered in Alaska, they're not endangered in Canada, but for some reason we got to throw guys in jail for protecting their property, right, right and the.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 2: I mean the amazing part of that story was the community rally together and at the fair when they were, I don't, I don't even know if they had the pig to sell, but basically they, they bid a whole bunch up for that family, basically to help pay legal fees for something like that.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: And it's, it's only a matter of time If bears come here, they will be coming down into the, the borderlands of the valley around on the edge of the timberline and that will be an issue.
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're going to kill people in the wilderness.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm not running for county commissioner, so I don't have to be as gentle about this.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: I don't want grizzlies here.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: If a grizzly shows up, it needs to go back to the state that it came from, and the state from which it came is going to pay for it.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: Flat out.
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: We, we do not need grizzlies here.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: Um they're.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: They're not that far away.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: This would be the first place that they would be brought to, because I know whitebark pine nuts are a staple of grizzly bears and we do have those.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: They grow above what?
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: 7 000 feet, I think yeah and especially this time of year, yeah but they might naturally come down the north cascades.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know how, how they move down through there for, for sure, and and you know, just coming, you know, through elk city, grangeville, crossing the canyons you know, it's just kind of a natural my dad's convinced that they actually saw what he thinks was an adolescent grizzly like seven, eight years ago when they were going out to pick mushrooms.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: It's like bear runs across the road in front of them, heading out zoom alt, yeah, and he was like there there was.
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 2: There was something different about that one.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: It wasn't very big but like the face shape was a little bit different yeah, there, there's been some really credible reports of of grizzlies being here, and it would only make sense yeah, what about wolverines?
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: Wolverines, I know we have them.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say they have, they're around yeah, I've got questions about that.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: Uh, you know, we, we hooked that wolverine up on game camera the first time those game cameras were deployed and it was from a wolverine researcher.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: Uh, I run a million game cameras, not a million.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: I have like 60 Tacticam game cameras that I have out all the time and I'm looking at about a million and a half photos a year.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many times I've forgotten to clear out an SD card and then when I first pull it up I'm like, oh, geez, what's going on here?
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I forgot to clear out my card.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: Nobody else has seen a wolverine here, hasn't showed up on anybody else's cameras, hasn't shown up in tracks.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: I kind of wonder if maybe we just didn't clear out an sd card from alaska, um on, uh, on a game camera.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: Interesting, when I when I so I worked seasonal for the forest service cut and trail and then, I think this was 2010, one of the guys I can't remember his name, but he was, uh, one of the guys hired to go um inspect the contract trails.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 2: That was back when there was stimulus money and from the obama administration and they they hired a bunch of contractors to go do the chainsaw trails in the snake river unit in some places anyway.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: So this guy was hired there and we were doing the big beginning of the season, uh, meetings and all that stuff and about wolves and and you know, cartel pot grows and stuff to be aware of when we're out and about, and this guy raises his hands.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 2: He's like, what about?
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: What about wolverines?
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: and he, in the winter time, was a backcountry ski outfitter here, here can't remember his name, but that was the first time I'd ever heard anything about it and he, he talked like his sort of like there was wolves here, before they admitted there was wolves here and he and they immediately go yeah, we don't have those, those aren't here, that's not a thing and he was like hmm, they travel great distances and, uh, it's certainly possible.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: Certainly possible.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, let's move on to closing thoughts.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: Take a few minutes apiece.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: Start with you, devin.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: Well, why should?
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: somebody vote for you.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 2: Somebody vote for you.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: Well, what I haven't been able to really put it any more clearly than I was able to at the candidate forum back in April is, as somebody who has deep and broad ties to the county, where I I'm a fifth generation uh family member here.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: Of my grandma, donna butterfield's 20, I believe, 23 great grandkids, 21 of them are being raised here, most of them on farms.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: Uh, I, I, I can't express any more strongly than that how much I care about the future of our county and the ability of not just my kids and my extended family, but everybody's ability to be able to live, be able to afford to work sorry, work afford to live and raise our families in this community.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 2: When I, when I made the decision to come back in 2015, 14, it was because this is where I wanted to raise my kids.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: Um, and after, uh, dissolving the partnership that I was developing with my parents on their cattle ranch, the first thing we my wife and I prioritized was figuring out what.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 2: What do we have to do to be able to stay here to raise our kids?
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: It would have been pretty easy to go find employment elsewhere chasing, chasing, career and income.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: So we've we've been doing what we have to do to make it work to stay here, because this is where we want to raise our kids, and I would love nothing more than for my kids and everybody else's young kids to be able to have the option, the choice, to be able to stay and earn a living here.
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: That necessitates prioritizing the local economy.
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: Like doesn't matter our housing.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: You can have a bunch, you can do some grant program and get a bunch of houses built, but it doesn't matter if nobody has anywhere to work to be able to live there and raise their family and be able to provide what is needed with an income.
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: So all of that, then, is is to point to our agriculture and natural resources sectors and, as the uh, as the farm person between lisa and I, I I don't really want it to.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 2: I don't want to get pigeonholed into.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 2: Well, he only cares about farming and ranching because that's that's where he comes from.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 2: No, no, I understand farming and ranching, anding and the issues that farmers and ranchers face, which we can get into, whether it's the wolves, whether it's the Forest Service, rangeland policy, the timber policy or the water rights.
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: That is what it is.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: I understand farming and ranching because that's where I come from.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: I care about it because it actually matters.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: It's the foundation upon which the rest of the local economy is really built upon.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: Like in the 1800s, people didn't move here because there was places to live.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: They moved here because there was opportunity and we backfilled the rest.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 2: And that's the reason that we have towns and we have year-round communities.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: If we lose the thing that is our economic foundation, which is a harvest of a natural resource that we can sell out of the area I mean the human food product of wheat, barley or other livestock feeds that we ship out with, say, alfalfa and timothy and other forages that is the foundation upon which we have grocery stores, we have restaurants, we have gas stations, we have everything else and the service industries that then are supplemented in the summertime with the influx of visitors.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: That's great.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's awesome.
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: We live in a beautiful place, people are going to come visit.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: I think that's awesome, but it's not the thing that can replace the real harvest of a natural resource and a real creation of wealth.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: And if we slowly, over time, let that get chipped away the same way that timber went, then really all we have left for an economy is trying to get people to come here with the money in their pocket and then we just sort of become whatever we think we'll get people to come here with money in their pocket.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: So I think it's really important to be an advocate for our, our real foundational economy, and that requires understanding it well enough to be able to go advocate for at the state level back in dc.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: Um, yes, we have to collaborate with the forest service, but we don't have to just rubber stamp everything they do because they need to push back when half of our grazing allotments are not stocked because they they've got their end run around.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: Got to do nepa, got to do this, got to do that.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: Well, that's an economic that has a big economic impact on our county and we we just can't afford to keep having stuff chipped away the way we lost our timber industry.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: Awesome Lisa.
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 3: I agree with all that.
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 3: Why should people vote for you?
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: I have lived here a long time.
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: Like Devin said, we moved back here to raise our kids because this is such a special place.
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: We loved growing up here.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: Wallowa County values Wallowa County people.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 3: They're like no other.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 3: And we've been to other places and we chose to come back here.
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 3: We're back here on purpose, reminiscing about growing up and riding your bikes and being able to walk downtown and being able to have those farm experiences.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: I was raised by the timber industry and the tourism industry, hand in hand.
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 3: One of my first jobs was changing pipe.
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 3: It's like these experiences, these experiences that that kids have here, make them different adults.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 3: They make them high quality, respectable, wonderful adults.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 3: We kids are one of our main natural resources and you know, just pouring love and experiences pulling from the county and so keeping it that way is very important.
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: Otherwise we grow in ways that we don't plan and we just become like what Devin said, everywhere else America and it's like we don't want that.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 3: So just why should people vote for me?
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 3: I love Wallowa County.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: I want to be a county commissioner.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: I stepped forward on my own because I wanted to do it and I love the people.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: I'm very connected with the people.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: I feel like I can speak for the people well.
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 3: I feel like I can speak for the people well, though I will also use their voice, even if I think I know what they need or what they want.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: It's a team sport, you know.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 3: Everybody has a say and it also is I try to encourage.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 3: I think trusting the people that you elect is amazing, but, like we said earlier, one of my favorite sayings is trust but verify, and that verify piece is stay involved, be involved.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 3: We want you to be involved.
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 3: Come to meetings, tell us what's on your mind, tell us what you need.
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: We're there for you.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 3: What you need, we're there for you, and I'm ready for that, and I've been living that.
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: That's what I, that's what I've been doing for years, and so this is just, I think, the natural next step, for that is how can I help people on a on a broader scale, and the people of Olawa County are pretty special.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: Well, I want to thank both of you for coming out to do this.
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: I know it can be a little bit scary to to talk for this long.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of fear that, like you're going to say something wrong and that's what's going to be used against you, but I I really feel like this is a great way for people to get to know you a little bit and and understand who you are in a more meaningful way than most formats that are available today.
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: So I appreciate both of you and I think that, whichever one of you wins, you're going to do a great job for the county.
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be happy either way.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: So thanks again and, yeah, hope you all have a great day.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: Bye everybody, and yeah, hope you all have a great day.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: Bye everybody.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: I just want to take a second and thank everyone who's written a review, who has sent mail, who's sent emails, who's sent messages.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 1: Your support is incredible, and I also love running into you at trade shows and events and just out on the hillside when we're hunting.
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: I think that that's fantastic.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: I hope you guys keep adventuring as hard and as often as you can.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: Art for the Six Ranch Podcast was created by John Chatelain and was digitized by Celia Harlander.
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 1: Original music was written and performed by Justin Hay, and the Six Ranch Podcast is now produced by Six Ranch Media.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: Thank you all so much for your continued support of the show and I look forward to next week when we can bring you a brand new episode.