Latest / The Automotive Leaders Podcast / Why Automation Fails in Manufacturing and the Leadership Shift Required to Fix It

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Why Automation Fails in Manufacturing and the Leadership Shift Required to Fix It · The Automotive Leaders Podcast

• 0:08
  Jan Griffiths: Welcome to the Automotive Leaders Podcast, where we help you
• 0:13
  prepare for the future by sharing stories, insights, and skills from leading voices
• 0:19
  in the automotive world with a mission to transform this industry together.
• 0:25
  I'm your host, Jan Griffiths.
• 0:26
  That passionate, rebellious farmer's daughter from Wales with over 35 years of
• 0:31
  experience in our beloved auto industry and a commitment to empowering fellow
• 0:37
  leaders to be their best authentic selves.
• 0:41
  Stay true to yourself, be you and lead with gravitas, the
• 0:47
  hallmark of authentic leadership.
• 0:51
  Let's dive in.
• 0:57
  This episode is brought to you by Lockton.
• 1:00
  Rising benefit costs aren't inevitable for you or your employees when
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  you break through the status quo.
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  Independence matters, it means Lockton can bring you creative,
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  tailored solutions that truly serve your business and your people.
• 1:16
  At Lockton, clients, associates, and communities come first,
• 1:20
  not margins and not mediocrity.
• 1:23
  Meet the moment with Lockton.
• 1:29
  Re-industrialize America.
• 1:32
  Wow.
• 1:32
  That's a term that we're using a lot these days.
• 1:35
  Across the US factories are waking back up and companies want to bring production
• 1:39
  home, but they're hitting a wall.
• 1:42
  There's some problems: labor shortages, skill gaps, rising
• 1:46
  costs, tariffs, you name it and there's a growing need to automate.
• 1:53
  We're starting to pay a lot more attention to automation now, but even as the
• 1:58
  demand for robotics explodes, many plants still buy robots that don't get used.
• 2:05
  I've been in many plants in my lifetime where it, the advanced
• 2:09
  manufacturing group is all excited.
• 2:11
  They bring in the robot, they put it in a plant and a southern state where
• 2:15
  they can't get the skilled labor, and what happens, the plant manager gives
• 2:18
  up, throws a top over it and says, I'll just hire a couple of extra people.
• 2:22
  So, what are we gonna do about this?
• 2:25
  Today's episode tackles a critical question.
• 2:29
  If automation is essential to rebuilding American manufacturing, why are so
• 2:34
  many companies still failing at it?
• 2:37
  And what has to change before we move forward into a truly automated
• 2:42
  and then AI-enabled future.
• 2:45
  Well, to answer that question and a whole lot more, I am thrilled to
• 2:49
  bring on the show today, Soren Peters.
• 2:51
  He is the CEO of How to Robot, a global marketplace helping manufacturer source
• 2:58
  automation and robotics more easily.
• 3:01
  Soren has spent his career leading companies through digital
• 3:05
  transformation, technology adoption, and large-scale operational change.
• 3:10
  His vantage point puts him right at the center of one of the biggest
• 3:15
  shifts in modern manufacturing.
• 3:18
  The urgent need for automation as production moves back to the US.
• 3:22
  Soren, welcome to the show.
• 3:25
  Soren Peters: Thank you.
• 3:26
  I'm glad you'd have me here.
• 3:29
  Jan Griffiths: It is great to have you.
• 3:30
  I saw you on stage at a UHY conference and your message was so powerful, so real,
• 3:37
  and so needed in the world we're in today.
• 3:41
  So Soren set the stage for us.
• 3:43
  What's happening in the world of automation right now?
• 3:46
  Soren Peters: That's a big question.
• 3:47
  I wish I could answer that.
• 3:48
  I think it comes in layers and I think we sometimes have the tendency of
• 3:52
  maybe only seeing the most exciting one, from a technology perspective
• 3:56
  sometimes, but it feels like some of the other layers might be the ones
• 4:00
  that are missing the most right now.
• 4:02
  And I think I've been saying that for the last many years.
• 4:05
  If you ask me, at least, I think we're all fascinated by AI and AI enabled
• 4:10
  robots and any kind that rhymes with AI or autonomous or whatever.
• 4:15
  And I am too, I think it's hard not to whether it's a dog or
• 4:19
  a humanoid or whatever it is.
• 4:22
  I think the more realistic or more broken part of it is maybe that if you go out
• 4:27
  and see a shop floor, they are maybe not so much in need of humanoids right now.
• 4:35
  Well, definitely in need of humans but it still feels like a
• 4:38
  conveyor or a palletizer is the more appropriate fit for a lot of
• 4:43
  these things to get things moving.
• 4:45
  I still feel it's the ongoing discussion of, is robots gonna take
• 4:49
  the workforce out and blah, blah, blah.
• 4:51
  But I think that we are still at, nope, it's not, the people aren't there, so
• 4:55
  it's not gonna take a job that isn't occupied right now, but maybe we can
• 4:58
  move some of these guys to a different position where they feel more valued
• 5:04
  and, as we've been saying for 30 years, that the robot can do the dirty
• 5:08
  jobs and all those kinds of things.
• 5:09
  And I still feel that the backbone of what we're still need to push is
• 5:15
  that while we're developing humanoids and other things but I do feel that,
• 5:22
  we always have a tendency to see that shining thing in front of us.
• 5:26
  I had a colleague once that his thing was Monday morning around 10.
• 5:30
  He always wrote an email to everybody saying, thank God it's it's weekend soon.
• 5:35
  And my point with that is he, let's look past the weekend right on to Sunday roast.
• 5:41
  Whereas the reality is we will have both Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday
• 5:45
  that we have to fight through.
• 5:47
  I think that's what we see.
• 5:49
  We're still at Tuesday.
• 5:50
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah, that's a good point.
• 5:51
  We hear this number Sorin that there's 500,000 manufacturing
• 5:55
  jobs open in the US right now.
• 5:57
  That seems to be a number that people are using a lot these days.
• 6:00
  Then we've got this other news headline that says, oh my gosh, the robots
• 6:04
  are coming, the robots are coming it, and they're gonna take all our jobs.
• 6:07
  Well, both are true sort of, but automation is definitely part of a
• 6:13
  manufacturing plant's plan, whether it's to reduce labor cost or whether
• 6:19
  it's because they can't get the labor.
• 6:21
  But automation is part of their plan.
• 6:24
  But we're not very good at making that decision, are we?
• 6:28
  Why does it take companies so long to make a decision to buy
• 6:33
  automation, to buy a robot?
• 6:35
  Soren Peters: I think I saw another podcast host, by the way,
• 6:38
  once post one of those, who are?
• 6:41
  Manufacturers?
• 6:42
  What are we gonna do?
• 6:43
  Buy robots.
• 6:45
  When do we want them?
• 6:46
  Tomorrow?
• 6:47
  Are they needed?
• 6:47
  Yes.
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  When are we gonna issue the P.O?
• 6:50
  Probably sometimes in the next 10 years.
• 6:53
  And I think that's easier.
• 6:54
  I think that's the point in all its simplicity.
• 6:57
  This is a very US focused public podcast, but a very similar scenarios
• 7:02
  playing the UK for a second.
• 7:04
  How long have they known that Brexit was a thing?
• 7:07
  I mean, years.
• 7:08
  Jan Griffiths: Yes.
• 7:08
  Soren Peters: We are seeing, I'm not saying they haven't realized that the
• 7:12
  Brexit is happening, but we are now seeing a steady inflow of projects from the UK
• 7:18
  realizing that they are down in workforce.
• 7:22
  But that can't come as a surprise really?
• 7:26
  I'm sure it doesn't but it feels like the time it took to pull the trigger
• 7:30
  on realizing no, you're not gonna get temporary labors from out other places in
• 7:35
  Europe to, I don't know, pick your apples or your strawberries or whatever it is.
• 7:39
  It's not gonna happen.
• 7:40
  And they knew this three years ago.
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  Of course they did.
• 7:43
  Why are they pulling the trigger now?
• 7:46
  And the same thing in the us That's not Brexit, but it's other things.
• 7:50
  There is an immigration policy saying that we are a little bit more restrictive at
• 7:54
  the border and a little bit is probably, differs but, so it will impact that.
• 8:01
  And it's been an agenda for years.
• 8:02
  I'm born in Europe as well, it's has been an agenda, the Arab Spring
• 8:07
  and everybody panted a little bit.
• 8:08
  What's that gonna mean for fugitives and so on.
• 8:10
  Long story short, we know that this is impacting us and still,
• 8:15
  we're still thinking about it.
• 8:16
  Jan Griffiths: You know that there's issues with people buying
• 8:19
  robots and implementing robots.
• 8:20
  You formed an entire company around it to help people do it.
• 8:26
  Soren Peters: Yes.
• 8:26
  Jan Griffiths: But what's right at the core of why companies can't
• 8:29
  seem to get their head around this?
• 8:31
  Soren Peters: But I think they can, if you divide it up for a second, I think
• 8:35
  when we started working with this in 1718 on the whole platform idea at that
• 8:40
  time was just, there was still a lot of like, why should we use automation like
• 8:45
  seminars, podcasts like this, would be all about why is robots a great idea?
• 8:50
  Let's be honest, that's hopefully not the agenda at any podcast anymore.
• 8:55
  But the why or actually, try to advertise how to robot and we are still stuck there.
• 9:01
  So a few examples.
• 9:03
  I think there's still a fear and a balance.
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  The last five years been incredibly changing for a lot of things, and
• 9:12
  very omnidirectional in the sense that every arrow has pointed in every
• 9:17
  direction at any given point in time.
• 9:20
  And I think, if I were a decision maker and a large manufacturer in the last
• 9:25
  five years, there would've been times where I've probably thought that what's
• 9:29
  the old game where you just turn the bottle and it pointed at someone might
• 9:32
  be the right way to take a decision because what's gonna happen next?
• 9:36
  It's tariffs, for and against but there is tariffs.
• 9:39
  There's been a number of wars we hadn't foreseen.
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  The former East has suddenly changed their views on a whole lot
• 9:46
  of things and so on and so forth.
• 9:48
  Political winds have changed a lot.
• 9:51
  And as you said, leading into this, there is suddenly an enormous, I don't
• 9:56
  wanna say deglobalization view, but something that is a little bit like
• 9:59
  that and put all those things together.
• 10:02
  How are you gonna navigate that?
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  And then still coming out of COVID, people were realizing, we could
• 10:09
  have damned some of the effects of COVID if we had robot workers.
• 10:13
  But still, they didn't pull the trigger until 22, 23.
• 10:17
  I mean, we can see that from the sales.
• 10:19
  I think there is conservatism.
• 10:21
  I think it's difficult to calculate the outcome and let's say that you are a plant
• 10:29
  manager in a factory, in a country with a maybe a little bit shorter payback time
• 10:34
  on hours could be anywhere south of the US for example, and so the management,
• 10:42
  for example, in the US have given you very, very strict orders on what to
• 10:46
  produce, how to produce it and when.
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  But at the same time, the management knows that it's also
• 10:51
  difficult to get workers there.
• 10:53
  So on one hand you're asking a guy whom you're fenced in pretty good
• 10:59
  on KPIs to think out of the box and change the way he produces things.
• 11:05
  Likewise, on the production floor, how do we get factory workers?
• 11:08
  Well, mostly it's the guy who's been there 10 years.
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  He gets the new guy.
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  The new guy learns from the guy who's been there 10 years.
• 11:16
  And you're expecting them to adopt robots, right there.
• 11:18
  I don't think that's gonna happen.
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  So in all thing, it's leadership and I think who want to be the one that takes
• 11:24
  the torch and say, I will take the risk.
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  I will bear the burden and I will let myself crucify if necessary,
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  if this fails, and if I were brave enough to say that, then the next
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  thing is, and who helps me with that?
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  I think that's a very big part of it.
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  And we might not say it that loud because then we will be one of the
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  ones saying, yeah, I'm maybe not so fascinated about all these things.
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  I actually just need things to work.
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  And that is not as cool as being, an evangelist or saying human
• 11:57
  robot or humanoids or whatever, so.
• 11:59
  I think there's leadership, there's definitely leadership.
• 12:03
  There's risk and to dare.
• 12:06
  So you know why not?
• 12:08
  Well, I don't think they made it to many parts of the US
• 12:11
  yet that risk taking ability.
• 12:14
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah, and I think a lot of it too goes back to the silo
• 12:17
  mentality and silo thinking that we have, particularly in the auto industry.
• 12:21
  So you see advanced manufacturing engineers or manufacturing
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  engineering group that may be in a corporate office somewhere.
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  They are working on the robot and they come up with a robot
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  and they work with the supplier.
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  And sometimes, and I've heard you talk about this, sometimes they can
• 12:38
  be talking different languages because maybe these are mechanical engineers.
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  They don't exactly speak the same language as the robot manufacturer.
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  So there's perhaps a little bit of a disconnect there.
• 12:50
  But then this thing arrives at the plant and maybe you got some purchasing
• 12:56
  person that decided to cut the training module out because they wanted to save
• 12:59
  some money, that can happen, but it arrives and then like you say, the
• 13:04
  poor guy in the plant is like, what?
• 13:06
  What?
• 13:07
  So give us some examples of where you've seen that play out and what people
• 13:13
  do to prevent that from happening.
• 13:16
  Soren Peters: I think there's two levels of education here, or maybe even three.
• 13:20
  I think the most common layer is that if you're a robot vendor, as in other words
• 13:25
  an integrator or whatever you are, that are the ones that got the order are now
• 13:29
  installing the robot, I think it's in their genes and it's in their contracts.
• 13:34
  As a rarely we see a contract where it isn't in that they
• 13:38
  educate the present factory engineer in what they've installed.
• 13:44
  At least to the, so that he can get it moving again.
• 13:47
  What we see more rarely or more is that do they also educate the rest
• 13:52
  of the workforce because those of are gonna be the ones going near the thing
• 13:56
  and might also get the responsibility for that specific line where that
• 14:01
  creature from hell is now standing.
• 14:03
  And you know, be honest, we've hired advisors.
• 14:08
  Automation advisors even coming from the automotive industry.
• 14:11
  And when we sent them out to a plant that did whatever, food and
• 14:15
  beverage or something like that in the middle of nowhere, they
• 14:19
  literally called me and said, oh my God, I didn't know it was like this.
• 14:23
  And so I think there's the other part which is are we aligned on what
• 14:26
  the state of automation is really?
• 14:30
  Because that would also define the level of education that
• 14:32
  we have to bring to the table.
• 14:34
  So very often we actually see the vendor, the integrator, whatever, deliver one
• 14:39
  kind of education, but then actually the factory themselves or others take
• 14:43
  the more broad education into look what we've done and so on and so forth.
• 14:48
  And not only the technical education.
• 14:50
  And lastly, a robot is a worker in a sense, and it comes with different
• 14:55
  ROIs, it comes with different behaviors.
• 14:58
  And now you also need to train the management.
• 15:01
  What does that mean?
• 15:02
  You definitely hired a different kind of workforce that comes with other
• 15:06
  problems or other greatnesses than the guys we normally use that's they come
• 15:11
  with unions or they need the first sick day of a child or whatever it is.
• 15:15
  And a robot also have a sick day.
• 15:16
  But we are also saying to everybody, a robot never gets sick
• 15:19
  and it's not, well, but it does.
• 15:21
  It's a piece of machinery and so.
• 15:23
  Long story short, it's back to education on a few levels and
• 15:26
  not just the technical education.
• 15:29
  It's back to when we buy something, we don't buy it for the sake of
• 15:33
  technology, we buy it because it will change my ability to pack fish or
• 15:39
  whatever I'm packing from 2 to 5,000.
• 15:42
  And honestly, it could be a robot, but it could also be a giraffe technically,
• 15:46
  if that could solve the problem.
• 15:48
  And that was the same with IT, it took 20 years, 25 years before we went from,
• 15:52
  the greatness of technology to that the normal manager of a division in some
• 15:58
  kind of company actually knew how to set forth specific functional demands
• 16:02
  to whatever system he was buying because if he bought the system, some C-level
• 16:07
  dude will come and kick his behind if he didn't deliver on the purchase.
• 16:13
  So there is still that technology to functionality conversion in our purchases.
• 16:18
  Understanding and so on and so forth that we are seeing is still
• 16:23
  a roadblock or a challenging part that shows up later, which says
• 16:27
  no, but it, it does it packed fish?
• 16:30
  Yes, it does, but it only packs 2100 and we were so much hoping for 5,000.
• 16:35
  Oh, didn't we say that?
• 16:36
  Or I think we said that, but you didn't hear it, or it's so classic.
• 16:41
  And anyone can get us all.
• 16:42
  Of course we said that, or the Venus can say, of course, we heard that.
• 16:45
  Reality is that's what we see.
• 16:47
  Jan Griffiths: This episode is sponsored by UHY.
• 16:51
  Did you know suppliers now spend 157 hours on an average RFQ and still face
• 17:00
  the same roadblocks as 20 years ago?
• 17:03
  UHY and the Center for Automotive Research, break it all down
• 17:06
  in their new white paper.
• 17:08
  Get the insights and see what's really changed in 2025.
• 17:12
  Download your copy.
• 17:13
  There's a link in the show notes.
• 17:15
  Listening to you talk, it takes me right back to my career and my time on the shop
• 17:20
  floor, and not specifically with robots, but I remember buying capital equipment
• 17:26
  and it's exactly like you described.
• 17:29
  The equipment manufacturer will spend most of the time educating one or two engineer.
• 17:36
  Maybe a set guy and a maintenance guy, and these guys then are the like
• 17:40
  the gods of that piece of equipment.
• 17:42
  Soren Peters: Yes.
• 17:42
  Jan Griffiths: Nobody else knows what to do with it.
• 17:44
  I mean, they might have gone through some operator training, some
• 17:47
  basic stuff, but very, very basic.
• 17:49
  But those two people are the only ones that really know how to use that
• 17:53
  machine, and that is a huge problem.
• 17:56
  You are exactly right, and I've seen it play out time and time again.
• 17:59
  So that's a huge area of opportunity.
• 18:02
  , Soren Peters: In any country, I guess, the majority of companies that need
• 18:04
  to adopt automation are not Ford size.
• 18:08
  They are 50 to 400 workers.
• 18:12
  But they're also the upstream suppliers, for example, to the automotive industry.
• 18:16
  Now, you're hoping that these guys will invest in environmental, environmentally
• 18:21
  great things, ESG and all that.
• 18:23
  You're hoping that they'll adapt future technologies such as AI and whatever.
• 18:28
  You're even hoping they have a year P system, and you're definitely hoping
• 18:31
  they'll bring on robots because that would give you, in many cases, a more robust
• 18:35
  production in terms of quality and so on.
• 18:37
  So we all know that, but the problem is the deal they can get with the guy
• 18:40
  they deliver to, is a year at a time.
• 18:43
  And then byebye ROI again, because if you can only invest a year or two it
• 18:48
  isn't very many solutions that will have a payback of a year and a half.
• 18:52
  There will be some, but then we are all with those ones, and then it becomes a
• 18:56
  little bit more strategic, and if your supply deal with whatever automotive
• 19:02
  major company is on a two year basis.
• 19:05
  Of course, we all know that your company had that deal the last
• 19:09
  31 years, and you're probably also gonna get it next year.
• 19:12
  But if I am a somewhat sane CEO or CFO, I will tell my board yes, it'll have
• 19:21
  a payback in three and a half years.
• 19:22
  Yes, it's strategic investment and no, our contract with whatever is only 18 months
• 19:30
  left under you know, on the clock there.
• 19:32
  And yes, you're right technically, and hopefully, we get it again, but as some
• 19:39
  would say, hope is for Sundays at 10.
• 19:41
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah.
• 19:42
  Soren Peters: Depending on where your church time is.
• 19:43
  So yet another roadblock.
• 19:46
  It's just you have to liquidity the situation.
• 19:48
  As you know, we've been lifting the financial as partners where
• 19:52
  we lift it that you can finance a robot so you don't pay until the
• 19:55
  thing is on the factory floor.
• 19:57
  A lot of companies are now looking to do that and so on.
• 19:59
  Why?
• 20:00
  Because that's the other thing.
• 20:01
  You're buying a robot with 80% down technically from a guy you made
• 20:05
  at a trade show three months ago.
• 20:06
  You're buying a thing you never bought before.
• 20:08
  A thing you don't really understand, but you're putting all your hopes in.
• 20:12
  But still, you're giving that guy $400,000 before you've even seen the thing.
• 20:16
  I mean, there's still so many basic factors.
• 20:20
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah.
• 20:20
  Soren Peters: And if you add them up, of course it's preventive.
• 20:23
  Of course it is.
• 20:24
  So yeah, I mean, am I fascinated by robots that can weed fields?
• 20:30
  Yes.
• 20:30
  Tremendously.
• 20:32
  Do I still say see a ton of hesitation in buying those things?
• 20:35
  Yes.
• 20:36
  They don't get it.
• 20:37
  I mean, they get the idea of it, but there's other roadblocks that I think.
• 20:41
  The robot industry see, but maybe not see clearly enough or maybe
• 20:46
  they do but don't know how to solve.
• 20:48
  So honestly, I think this goes in many levels.
• 20:51
  I think if you're an automotive superpower, whatever name that could be
• 20:55
  there, you have a task here to look at your contract and say, look, Jan, for the
• 21:01
  next four years, this contract is yours.
• 21:03
  The trade off is, that you promised me that you would automate your
• 21:07
  production to a certain degree because then you won't get the contract
• 21:11
  after the four years if you don't.
• 21:13
  Jan Griffiths: I feel that automotive manufacturing companies supply
• 21:17
  base particularly, have got to get their arms around this in quickly.
• 21:21
  We've talked a lot about the problems.
• 21:24
  I want to switch you now to, go into the mindset of a leader who really
• 21:32
  gets it, understands it, and is likely to be successful, and in selecting,
• 21:38
  purchasing and implementing robots.
• 21:41
  What's the DNA of that leader look like?
• 21:43
  Tell me, I wanna know about their leadership style, how they make decisions.
• 21:47
  What's that look like?
• 21:48
  Soren Peters: I think for some years, I think some of us thought
• 21:52
  that age was a big part of this.
• 21:54
  Like if you were older than X, then your likelihood of investing
• 21:58
  in newer technology would be less.
• 22:00
  It's funny enough, not always the case.
• 22:03
  I think there's a few factors here.
• 22:04
  I think one of the determined factors is.
• 22:08
  Can I find a way to experiment and not get crucified in the sense of, can I
• 22:15
  find a way or can I buy myself a way to set myself free enough to to at least
• 22:21
  change things and give myself a little leeway to both change, but then also fix.
• 22:27
  I mean, none of this can change lanes without a little bit of after
• 22:32
  polishing and so on and so forth.
• 22:34
  And so, if you're not able to buy yourself that leeway, you're highly
• 22:40
  likely gonna fail at one of the first attempts of trying this.
• 22:43
  So I think there is some shoulder width and an organization that are able to
• 22:48
  sustain that you're actually doing this.
• 22:51
  Give the guy the leeway.
• 22:52
  No, we are not talking about standing out in your backyard burning a hundred
• 22:55
  dollars bills, but we are talking about that there is a little bit of like
• 23:00
  the day he said he would fix this.
• 23:02
  Don't stand there and threaten him.
• 23:04
  Give him those extra 15%.
• 23:07
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah, it's like a trial.
• 23:08
  You need to build in some time to play
• 23:10
  Soren Peters: Yes,
• 23:11
  Jan Griffiths: familiar
• 23:11
  Soren Peters: But not endless.
• 23:12
  And that's the thing.
• 23:13
  We have this terrible idea of either we say, did you make it on time?
• 23:17
  Or it is like a total hippie we'll see and maybe ridden in the stars.
• 23:21
  There is a middle ground, and the middle ground might be
• 23:24
  give the guy the time plus 20%.
• 23:27
  And tell him that that's what he's getting and help him do that.
• 23:30
  We have seen many times that a big company have a division or a group
• 23:36
  that are very focused on changing automation team or whatever is
• 23:41
  advanced manufacturing team, whatever.
• 23:43
  But there is also a plant manager with responsibility day to day that has to
• 23:48
  go hand in hand, and they need to give him the leeway to adopt this but also
• 23:54
  help him like put on the new suit.
• 23:56
  And so leadership wise, I think there is daring.
• 24:00
  I think there's definitely daring and maybe also a little bit of,
• 24:05
  I'll ask for permission afterwards.
• 24:07
  Which is a cultural difficult thing for some.
• 24:10
  I think there is a certain kind of firmness decision
• 24:14
  wise that needs to be there.
• 24:16
  It's like, this is what we do and lagging up.
• 24:19
  And you know, where I come from, we say you have to point with the whole hand.
• 24:24
  So literally be firm about this direction we're taking.
• 24:28
  You are all on board.
• 24:30
  Because I think changing things like this is hard if you're also wobbly.
• 24:35
  So if you take the decision of introducing AGVs or Palletizers or
• 24:41
  whatever it is, it is a firm thing we do, and of course we're all gonna
• 24:45
  contribute to the this is gonna work.
• 24:47
  As they say in church, speak now or forever hold your peace.
• 24:51
  I think that's a very, very big factor.
• 24:53
  If you allow too much let's sit in a circle and play guitar and so on.
• 24:58
  I think it's okay for the 20% where we try to figure out how do we get
• 25:01
  the people to adopt this, you know, we're humans, but I think when you
• 25:05
  point and say, this is what we do, that's where you have to be super firm.
• 25:10
  Jan Griffiths: You are right though, but it's a balance, right?
• 25:12
  Because so often we see companies that might decide to say, okay.
• 25:17
  We're gonna introduce robots for material handling for this new project.
• 25:22
  So now you've got a brand new project going into the plant, and you're going to
• 25:25
  introduce automation for the first time.
• 25:27
  And now you're on a timeline.
• 25:29
  And now your customer came in and shortened the timeline, right?
• 25:32
  So the chance of that succeeding is slim to none.
• 25:35
  New technology, new program launch, but yet we do it because we're driven.
• 25:39
  We're driven.
• 25:40
  We've got numbers, we've got KPIs, we've got financials that we have
• 25:43
  to meet, and that's how we operate.
• 25:44
  And that's very much automotive mindset.
• 25:47
  More of the tech mindset is let's get this technology and play with it.
• 25:52
  Let's break it.
• 25:53
  Let's break it.
• 25:54
  Let's iterate it.
• 25:55
  Let's work with it.
• 25:56
  Work with it in our process until we can figure out how to truly optimize it.
• 26:01
  Soren Peters: Yeah.
• 26:01
  Jan Griffiths: This that kind of playing in the sandbox with it mentality.
• 26:05
  What I hear you say is you need to allow room for that, but not forever.
• 26:11
  There's gotta be some kind of guardrail around that.
• 26:14
  Soren Peters: I think if I were a plant manager or whatever, I would do two
• 26:18
  things that would make me sleep at night.
• 26:20
  I would, one, buy me a little leeway from my boss saying, we
• 26:23
  might have a 20% hiccup here.
• 26:25
  Don't worry I will ensure it is 20% and not 600.
• 26:29
  And so I will control this, but you need to allow me hiccup and
• 26:34
  then I'll tell my guys, under me, I would say, this has to work.
• 26:40
  And I probably would not tell them 20%.
• 26:44
  I would probably find the balance of giving myself a little leeway
• 26:48
  to navigate knowing that this is something I haven't tried before,
• 26:52
  but also looking firm on the outside.
• 26:56
  I've played in a band for many years and funny enough, I rarely get nervous talking
• 27:01
  on a stage or whatever, where it's only me, but it, I feel like I can control me.
• 27:09
  Now, rarely you'll find a factory where, where the only worker is me.
• 27:13
  So there is a band and funny enough, when we play out in concerts and whatever,
• 27:17
  I feel I'm much more nervous because there's a whole band dependent on me,
• 27:24
  and if I screw up, I drag everybody down.
• 27:28
  And we all look like idiots.
• 27:29
  So I actually feel a greater responsibility for them than I do
• 27:33
  for the audience, funny enough.
• 27:35
  So I think what I learned to conquer my insecurity was, and obviously
• 27:41
  I've never said this and I know we're recording this, but screw the audience.
• 27:45
  As long as I get leeway with my band members, as long as I know
• 27:49
  that if I screw up whatever, they're okay, they'll continue playing,
• 27:54
  and 'cause they'll screw up, five minutes later and I'll carry them.
• 27:57
  But outside we just plow on.
• 28:00
  We just play that.
• 28:01
  Yes, the bass player might be an idiot for the next 20 seconds 'cause
• 28:05
  he's fumbling, but the band keeps on.
• 28:08
  Jan Griffiths: That's really good.
• 28:09
  'Cause the bass player is very much a supporting role, pulling it all together.
• 28:13
  Soren Peters: It is a rhythm group, funny enough, right?
• 28:15
  Bass and drums.
• 28:16
  But, so it will be noticed if I fall.
• 28:21
  But it'll be definitely be noticed if the whole band stops and looks
• 28:25
  at me and think, what the hell, that will be noticed and that that's
• 28:28
  the situation I'm nervous about.
• 28:31
  So, but if the band carries on, we won't fall all at the same time.
• 28:34
  So if the band carries on, I can climb up using them and then they later fall
• 28:40
  and they can climb up and look in any concert anywhere I've ever played, we've
• 28:45
  screwed up any one of us, at a number of times 'cause this is not my full-time job.
• 28:50
  The good thing is at most parties, people are dumb ass drunk anyway.
• 28:53
  So they're not gonna notice.
• 28:55
  It's only if you record it and afterwards you think, oh my god.
• 28:58
  Jan Griffiths: Yes.
• 28:59
  Soren Peters: But that's the beauty of it.
• 29:00
  Whereas if the whole band stopped.
• 29:02
  It will be very, very visible.
• 29:04
  So my point is the factory has to move on that you need to promise your boss.
• 29:10
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah.
• 29:11
  Soren Peters: But I need leeway 'cause I am human and I'm now
• 29:15
  doing a thing that I don't do very often in this case, automation.
• 29:18
  So please bear with me just a little bit.
• 29:21
  I will still make sure the band plays on.
• 29:24
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah.
• 29:24
  That's a great way to describe it.
• 29:26
  Now, Soren, in closing, I want you to talk to our listening audience.
• 29:33
  Give them one piece of advice, one step, maybe step one.
• 29:37
  Maybe they're starting to think about automation.
• 29:39
  They're just starting to think about it.
• 29:42
  Give them a couple of pointers.
• 29:44
  What do they need to do?
• 29:45
  Soren Peters: Let's see if I can say this without advertising, but we build
• 29:48
  how robot with literally two focuses.
• 29:50
  'Cause we only meet two kind of clients.
• 29:52
  We meet the guy that know he has to do something, had no idea why or when.
• 29:57
  So not why, but when and how technically.
• 30:00
  And then we meet the guy that know why and he also know kind of where but not whom.
• 30:07
  And so, you know, if we built what we did to ensure that if you know
• 30:13
  where, like I need palletizing, this is where I'm bleeding out.
• 30:17
  You don't have to buy it tomorrow, but very quickly you sit with
• 30:20
  knowledge because that's what we need that the point is the knowledge
• 30:23
  part is where I feel more secure.
• 30:26
  I feel more, firm in my decisions.
• 30:29
  So if I very quickly get ideas of what this is gonna cost
• 30:33
  and a concept and all this.
• 30:35
  Again, get this very, very quickly so it doesn't drag out for nine months.
• 30:39
  I can be more firm in my decision saying that's what we're gonna do.
• 30:43
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah.
• 30:44
  Soren Peters: So that's for the guy who probably knows where,
• 30:46
  but just need to figure out how.
• 30:48
  Jan Griffiths: Yep.
• 30:49
  Soren Peters: And even if it's just a comparison to what he already knows,
• 30:53
  and maybe he'll pick his own, you know, local guy to do that, that's fine.
• 30:57
  But if the market says this is a $250,000 solution.
• 31:01
  Great, you know that now you can have a much more educated
• 31:04
  discussion with your local vendor.
• 31:06
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah.
• 31:06
  Soren Peters: The, the other guy is the guy, who had no idea what, and we
• 31:11
  try to solve some of it with what we call a feasibility assessment, which
• 31:15
  is technically a robot capable person that uses two days on the factory floor
• 31:20
  saying, look, you can do 20 things.
• 31:22
  But two of them is where I would start and let me tell you why,
• 31:26
  and then get it on the platform.
• 31:27
  Get some, some quotes, but the other thing we've seen is that
• 31:31
  if you enable people to get the knowledge that they're lacking fast.
• 31:37
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah.
• 31:38
  Soren Peters: So what has been highly successful SaaS?
• 31:42
  SaaS is extremely like software service is extremely successful because a dumb
• 31:47
  ass like me can think, oh, I wish we had some kind of solutions for all the
• 31:55
  receipts that my traveling sales guys have and on a Sunday, I can literally
• 32:01
  log in and get a $10 tryout of a system online that can screen those receipts
• 32:07
  Jan Griffiths: Yep.
• 32:07
  Soren Peters: And give me an no.
• 32:08
  Now, if you can do the same with robots and not make it a nine months engineering
• 32:14
  wise process, but literally allow them to like, within a week or two, get some
• 32:18
  indications of how difficult is this?
• 32:21
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah.
• 32:22
  Soren Peters: I think you'll start to see that suddenly you feel educated because
• 32:28
  neither you nor me have problems buying a car because your dad and your parents
• 32:33
  and them before them, knew how to do this.
• 32:36
  So we're okay with buying a car.
• 32:38
  We feel educated enough to do so, but a robot, not so much.
• 32:42
  So if we can raise the knowledge level, and I don't mean long webinars.
• 32:48
  I literally mean, oh, you're trying to pickle bee route.
• 32:53
  Great.
• 32:54
  Here's the six vendors that do that.
• 32:56
  It'll cost you between 200, $300,000.
• 32:59
  Okay, let me think about that for a couple of months and then I'll
• 33:02
  get back, but that makes sense.
• 33:04
  Let me look at my factory now and see how I can make that work.
• 33:09
  But the current solution is that you.
• 33:12
  Take one of your own engineers.
• 33:14
  He uses nine month looking at how this might be achievable,
• 33:17
  knowing that he's not the market and he's never done this before.
• 33:21
  Then he comes back and say, this might be a million dollars.
• 33:24
  Jan Griffiths: Oh yeah,
• 33:25
  Soren Peters: You see what I mean?
• 33:26
  Jan Griffiths: yeah.
• 33:27
  Soren Peters: And then it dies right there.
• 33:29
  Jan Griffiths: Yeah.
• 33:29
  Fascinating, fascinating approach.
• 33:31
  Soren Peters: What I mean?
• 33:32
  Jan Griffiths: I do.
• 33:32
  Well, there's a lot to think about and automotive manufacturers are getting
• 33:37
  their heads around this right now.
• 33:38
  And the timeline, the clock is ticking.
• 33:41
  So, Soren, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 33:44
  We've learned a lot and hopefully our listeners have too.
• 33:47
  Thank you.
• 33:48
  Soren Peters: Thank you.
• 33:54
  Jan Griffiths: Thank you for listening to the Automotive Leaders Podcast.
• 33:58
  Click the listen link in the show notes to subscribe for free on your platform of
• 34:02
  choice, and don't forget to download the 21 Traits of Authentic Leadership PDF by
• 34:08
  clicking on the link below and remember.
• 34:11
  Stay true to yourself, be you, and lead with gravitas, the
• 34:17
  hallmark of authentic leadership.