Latest / Why We Do What We Do / American Sign Language pt. 2

Transcript

American Sign Language pt. 2 · Why We Do What We Do

0:03
Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we Do what we Do. Welcome
0:15
Speaker 1: to Why We Do what we Do. I am your
0:18
Speaker 1: still signing host Abraham, and I'm.
0:21
Speaker 2: Your grammatically different host Shane.
0:24
Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
0:26
Speaker 1: that humans and non human animals do, and sometimes we
0:30
Speaker 1: talk about the specific ways they communicate. And this is
0:33
Speaker 1: a part two because in the first part of this
0:37
Speaker 1: discussion that we were having, we explored the history and
0:40
Speaker 1: started getting into the grammar and structure and things to
0:43
Speaker 1: know about ASL and a little bit with deaf culture
0:46
Speaker 1: and deaf community and people who are hard of hearing
0:49
Speaker 1: and hearing impaired. And this is a follow up to that.
0:51
Speaker 1: We will continue discussing how ASL works and get into
0:54
Speaker 1: some of the sort of functional analyzes of that to
0:58
Speaker 1: a point. But if you're joining us so the first
1:00
Speaker 1: time they welcome, We hope you enjoy what you hear
1:03
Speaker 1: in this discussion, and I do recommend you go back
1:05
Speaker 1: and listen to the last episode for some background. We'll
1:08
Speaker 1: do a quick recap on that just to make sure
1:10
Speaker 1: we're all caught up. Even if you heard it last week,
1:13
Speaker 1: that was a week ago, so still good to get
1:15
Speaker 1: that refresher.
1:16
Speaker 3: We'll do a quick recap.
1:17
Speaker 1: And then you'll be all caught up and ready to go.
1:19
Speaker 1: If you're a returning person, welcome back. Thank you for
1:21
Speaker 1: being with us neither way. If you'd like to support us,
1:24
Speaker 1: you can join us on Patreon, leave us a rating
1:26
Speaker 1: and a review like subscribe, tell a friend, hire a
1:30
Speaker 1: plane to do skywriting that says listen to why we
1:33
Speaker 1: do what we do. I'll talk more about the ways
1:34
Speaker 1: you can support us at the end of this discussion.
1:38
Speaker 1: It is July eighth, so Happy Be a Kid Again Day.
1:43
Speaker 2: I love that. It's also Coca Cola Day if you
1:46
Speaker 2: like soda.
1:47
Speaker 3: Sure. Yeah.
1:48
Speaker 1: It is Math two point oh Day. I don't really
1:51
Speaker 1: know what that means, but I'm on board.
1:54
Speaker 2: It's math more math plus, which makes sense a year.
1:57
Speaker 2: They could call it math plus, but I guess two
1:59
Speaker 2: point zero is number two anyway. It's National Freezer Pop Day,
2:02
Speaker 2: which is much cooler than Math.
2:04
Speaker 3: So cool. It's frozen.
2:08
Speaker 1: Related late as National ice Cream Sunday Day.
2:12
Speaker 2: It's also National Milk Chocolate with Almonds.
2:14
Speaker 1: Day, Shane, did you know that is also National Blueberry Day?
2:18
Speaker 2: Oh? I didn't know that, but I love blueberries and
2:21
Speaker 2: I will celebrate nice. It is SCUD Day, which means
2:26
Speaker 2: savor the comic, unplug the drama.
2:30
Speaker 3: On board. I'm good with this, sure.
2:32
Speaker 2: Yeah.
2:33
Speaker 1: It is air conditioning Appreciation Days in the Northern Hemisphere
2:37
Speaker 1: and that makes a lot of sense to me.
2:39
Speaker 2: Yes, it also makes a lot of sense to me.
2:41
Speaker 2: Right now. It is be nice in New Jersey Week.
2:44
Speaker 3: Nah say, t'll ask.
2:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a big ask. The world's on fire right now,
2:51
Speaker 2: and you want me to be nice too?
2:53
Speaker 1: Joysy, Just kidding Jersey ins if there's any of you
2:57
Speaker 1: who listen to us. Its National Aborigine is an Islanders
3:02
Speaker 1: Day Observance Committee weeks.
3:05
Speaker 3: There's a lot of words.
3:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's what it is. Just rolls off the tongue.
3:10
Speaker 2: It's nude Recreation weekend.
3:12
Speaker 1: Oo hey, we kind of did an episode about this.
3:14
Speaker 1: We did one on like on the the newdest Resorts
3:20
Speaker 1: Clothing Optional.
3:21
Speaker 2: We did it was a good time.
3:22
Speaker 3: It is actually World Allergy Day. I found out.
3:26
Speaker 2: Oh look at that. And it's also Shark Week.
3:29
Speaker 1: Nice hopefully real sharks and not some of the nonsense
3:33
Speaker 1: they've been doing on Discovery Channel the last few years.
3:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, where it's like just not it's just shark paranormal activities.
3:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, basically they're like, oh, what about the megalodon. It
3:45
Speaker 1: might still be out there. I'm like, I mean, the
3:46
Speaker 1: movie was fun, and the second one was ridiculous but
3:49
Speaker 1: also fun.
3:50
Speaker 3: But no, there's no no legalodons out there.
3:52
Speaker 2: There's no no, no, no, no. It's okay that there's not.
3:56
Speaker 2: We can be okay that there's not.
3:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't be silly, don't make more scared. Yeah, the
4:02
Speaker 1: ocean is frightening enough as it is. Anyway, we are
4:06
Speaker 1: here to talk about follow up episode because this is
4:08
Speaker 1: about American sign language, or asl Or said, more reasonably
4:13
Speaker 1: and not like a weirdo American sign language. And so
4:16
Speaker 1: last time we did a huge discussion into the history
4:18
Speaker 1: of this and started getting into the grammar mechanics, and
4:21
Speaker 1: as a brief synopsis of that, many of you probably
4:24
Speaker 1: know that throughout a lot of history, people who were
4:28
Speaker 1: deaf or hard of hearing or hearing impaired faced a
4:30
Speaker 1: lot of discrimination and challenges. They often were denying basic
4:34
Speaker 1: rights like having an education, being able to get married,
4:37
Speaker 1: being able to own property. They were thought of as
4:39
Speaker 1: being incapable of thought or participating in communities. They were
4:44
Speaker 1: incapable of like having any kind of intellect, was at
4:48
Speaker 1: least a problem that some people in some parts of
4:51
Speaker 1: the world imposed upon their understanding of deaf people.
4:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, all of that was demonstrabily false. And so over many,
4:58
Speaker 2: many decades and even centuries, we saw lots of discrimination,
5:02
Speaker 2: We saw lots of problems, but we did start to
5:04
Speaker 2: see the emergence of using and understanding that speech and
5:07
Speaker 2: hearing were different functions of different parts of the brain
5:10
Speaker 2: and different processes, and we started to see kind of
5:12
Speaker 2: the emergence of education books on deaf education. We started
5:16
Speaker 2: seeing the emergence of language and communication. But we also
5:19
Speaker 2: discovered that much of the problem or malignment that came
5:23
Speaker 2: along with folks who were deaf and hearing impaired or
5:26
Speaker 2: hard of hearing was a primarily Westerner European issue. What
5:30
Speaker 2: we were finding is that many cultures around the world
5:32
Speaker 2: actually had laws protecting people who were deaf and hearing impaired.
5:36
Speaker 2: We saw that they were brought into important positions in communities.
5:40
Speaker 2: And so what we kind of discovered, which is should
5:43
Speaker 2: be no shock to anyone, is that white people are
5:46
Speaker 2: a problem.
5:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it seems that probably the place where deaf
5:51
Speaker 1: and hard of hearing and hearing impaired people were most
5:54
Speaker 1: included was an indigenous cultures and tribes, particularly in the Americas,
5:58
Speaker 1: but probably many other places around the world.
6:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, going to see that.
6:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Europeans were kind of issue there, but eventually
6:05
Speaker 1: they did start to develop some manual gestural signs in
6:09
Speaker 1: the European and Western cultures as well. And we're able
6:13
Speaker 1: to show that. Yes, in fact, if you just communicate
6:16
Speaker 1: with deaf people using visual communication, they learn just as
6:19
Speaker 1: readily and easily as anyone else. They are just as
6:22
Speaker 1: smart and capable of participating in society and developing their
6:27
Speaker 1: own culture as anyone else.
6:29
Speaker 3: And so that began to.
6:30
Speaker 1: Emerge, and in eighteen seventeen they established a school for
6:35
Speaker 1: the deaf in the United States and developed American Sign Language,
6:39
Speaker 1: which was largely based on French Sign language, as well
6:42
Speaker 1: as a lot of science from Martha's Vineyard Sign Language
6:44
Speaker 1: and then some other sort of regional and household signs
6:47
Speaker 1: that existed in the United States at the time.
6:50
Speaker 2: Yes, and so when we talk about ASL, it's important
6:52
Speaker 2: remember that it has a different grammatical structure than English.
6:56
Speaker 2: Than English specifically because it is its own language, its
7:00
Speaker 2: own syntax, its own structure, its own words, it's got
7:02
Speaker 2: its own format, all of those things, and that is
7:05
Speaker 2: critically important to understand when you are learning and speaking
7:08
Speaker 2: in ASL.
7:10
Speaker 1: Yes, we also talked a bit about the fact that
7:13
Speaker 1: ASL and the deaf community and the heart of hearing
7:15
Speaker 1: and hearing impaired community has a rich, vibrant culture. They
7:19
Speaker 1: interact with each other, they have a great system for
7:23
Speaker 1: supporting each other. There are many systems of education that
7:25
Speaker 1: are designed specifically to support ASL education and people who
7:29
Speaker 1: are hard of hearing and hearing impaired, and that it
7:32
Speaker 1: is not incumbent upon them to learn to lip read
7:35
Speaker 1: so that they can communicate. And even if they were
7:37
Speaker 1: supposed to do that, only about thirty percent of English
7:40
Speaker 1: can be read via lip reading, and that is not
7:43
Speaker 1: enough to have an effective communication. So there's no need
7:47
Speaker 1: for pity, no need for mistreatment or exclusion of these people.
7:50
Speaker 1: Just I would recommend learn some ASL learn to communicate.
7:54
Speaker 1: And also deaf people can read probably better than you,
7:58
Speaker 1: so you can also write to them and then can
8:00
Speaker 1: communicate that way.
8:01
Speaker 2: Yes, I think you nailed it all right.
8:04
Speaker 1: That gets us too, getting into some of the grammatical
8:06
Speaker 1: structure here, as we started talking about the fact that
8:10
Speaker 1: ASL uses its own grammatical structure, and so when people
8:15
Speaker 1: try and sign and use ASL at the same time,
8:17
Speaker 1: that's called SimCom. It usually breaks down one of those languages,
8:21
Speaker 1: oftentimes the ASL part of the language, and makes it
8:24
Speaker 1: really difficult to understand. Is generally not recommended to try
8:27
Speaker 1: and do SimCom unless it is specifically requested by your audience,
8:31
Speaker 1: because some people do depend on that. Some people also
8:34
Speaker 1: use primarily spelling to sign. But that's sort of where
8:37
Speaker 1: we left off, and so really getting into now an
8:40
Speaker 1: understanding of the sort of grammar structure of ASL.
8:44
Speaker 2: Yes, so ASL is not a direct word to word
8:48
Speaker 2: language to English, and this is something that people fail
8:51
Speaker 2: to realize or recognize I think many times. I think
8:54
Speaker 2: people who are primarily English speakers just kind of assume
8:57
Speaker 2: that every language is a one to one and that's
8:58
Speaker 2: the how it works.
8:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, for lots of reasons.
9:01
Speaker 2: Right, there are some signs that effectively communicate a lot
9:03
Speaker 2: of words with a simple gesture, and there are some
9:05
Speaker 2: English words that require a lot of different signs to
9:07
Speaker 2: make one word. So, for example, to say what line
9:10
Speaker 2: of work are you in. In ASL, you would to
9:13
Speaker 2: say the words. In English, you would say what line
9:15
Speaker 2: of work are you in? In ASL, you simply point
9:18
Speaker 2: to the person you were asking and then put your
9:20
Speaker 2: hands out vertically on top of each other in front
9:22
Speaker 2: of you, with your dominant hand on top, and slide
9:25
Speaker 2: your dominant hand forward, and so you have like a
9:27
Speaker 2: different sign. Just what's one sign really quick and saying
9:30
Speaker 2: you what do you like? What's your work? Yeah?
9:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, just one, that's it, Yeah, exactly.
9:34
Speaker 2: So that's kind of cool to see. And in English,
9:36
Speaker 2: the word babysitter, which is one word, babysitter, it's two
9:40
Speaker 2: words put together in one word. You know, you know
9:42
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, compound rd Yeah, yeah, compboun word. In ASL,
9:45
Speaker 2: it's three different signs consecutively, baby, keeper, and person.
9:50
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, you signed all three of them together to
9:53
Speaker 1: get the to get the one word. So it's just
9:55
Speaker 1: not a one to one translation. Like some things, you
9:57
Speaker 1: can communicate a lot with a single gesture an ASL,
10:00
Speaker 1: and some single words you need a bunch of signs
10:02
Speaker 1: to get to an ASL because they it's sort of
10:05
Speaker 1: a combination of meanings.
10:06
Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I was a kid, I was part
10:08
Speaker 2: of the Future Florida Educators of America and when I
10:11
Speaker 2: was in fifth grade. So if that tells you anything
10:13
Speaker 2: I did. Here's the thing. I know, I'm cool now. Okay,
10:17
Speaker 2: I know I look cool and I'm cool now. But
10:18
Speaker 2: I was part of the Future Florida Educators of America
10:21
Speaker 2: and I was a safety patrol in fifth grade. And
10:24
Speaker 2: one of the things we did for Earth Day was
10:26
Speaker 2: we learned sign language to sign Heal the World by
10:30
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson Nice, and so we stood in front of
10:33
Speaker 2: our entire school and did sign language interpretation of Healed
10:37
Speaker 2: the World. And I remember learning the sign for and,
10:40
Speaker 2: which is it's almost like you're holding a sandwich like
10:43
Speaker 2: you like you pull it apart, like you're pulling apart
10:45
Speaker 2: of grilled cheese. That's how I learned what it was
10:48
Speaker 2: at the time, and then I grew up and later
10:50
Speaker 2: learned that nobody in the deaf community really uses the
10:53
Speaker 2: word and yeah, because it's not really like it's not
10:55
Speaker 2: necessary because ASL captures it without having to have a
10:58
Speaker 2: sign for it.
10:59
Speaker 1: Also, the sign that I learned for and is different
11:01
Speaker 1: from that and yeah, you're right, you don't usually need it.
11:04
Speaker 1: They will use it sometimes, but like there are strategic
11:07
Speaker 1: specific times that you might need to use it or
11:09
Speaker 1: want to use it, and most of the time you
11:11
Speaker 1: don't actually need it. You can just keep signing and
11:15
Speaker 1: like you don't need that conjunction.
11:17
Speaker 2: Right well, and like and there's even one variation too,
11:19
Speaker 2: like where if you don't do it right, it takes
11:22
Speaker 2: the N out and it makes ad.
11:30
Speaker 3: Okay, we're back there.
11:34
Speaker 1: There's no way to sign the word and to make
11:35
Speaker 1: it turn into add. But yeah, that was just for
11:39
Speaker 1: that was just for the fun of the segue.
11:41
Speaker 3: Okay.
11:42
Speaker 1: So we're talking about the fact that, like in ASL,
11:44
Speaker 1: you can have some signs that effectively communicate a lot
11:47
Speaker 1: of words, and then some words need a lot of
11:50
Speaker 1: signs and it's just not a one to a comparison. Also,
11:52
Speaker 1: in ASL, you can use only the words you absolutely need,
11:56
Speaker 1: even if there are a sign for the other words
11:58
Speaker 1: you might use in a sentence, and so you can
12:01
Speaker 1: just be very efficient with your communication. So, for example,
12:04
Speaker 1: if you're asking how to sign a particular word, you could.
12:08
Speaker 3: Use we'll get in this in a moment.
12:09
Speaker 1: You can use lowered eyebrows and as if asking an
12:12
Speaker 1: open ended question and then spell out the word you
12:14
Speaker 1: want to sign for. So, like, if you wanted to
12:16
Speaker 1: sign how do you sign car? You can just fingerspell
12:19
Speaker 1: car with your eyebrows lowered and that what would be
12:22
Speaker 1: like asking how do you sign car? I mean, you
12:25
Speaker 1: can actually sign all of the words how do you
12:27
Speaker 1: sign car and do it that way, but it could
12:32
Speaker 1: be a lot more efficient by just saying car with
12:34
Speaker 1: like the lowered eyebrows is like a question mark. Yeah,
12:38
Speaker 1: it'll get to that a second. But so, signing is
12:40
Speaker 1: often specifically organized to be as efficient as possible, only
12:44
Speaker 1: in using the needed signs to communicate and dropping any
12:49
Speaker 1: words that you don't technically need to get the point across.
12:52
Speaker 2: It's like in the office when Kevin tries to use
12:55
Speaker 2: less words to be like, it's like, so, but I
12:58
Speaker 2: want to be clear, Like it's it's like that in
13:00
Speaker 2: that he's trying to be efficient, except asl it actually
13:03
Speaker 2: works and in English spoke in English, it doesn't, like
13:06
Speaker 2: that's the difference. Like, So, another another thing too, I
13:10
Speaker 2: learned that if you have to ask a question, something
13:12
Speaker 2: you might do is like you might put your hand
13:13
Speaker 2: up like next to your head, and you might like
13:15
Speaker 2: kind of like wiggle your finger like it's like question yeah,
13:18
Speaker 2: like yeah, yeah, the question wiggle, So like you might
13:20
Speaker 2: do that too, Yeah, And so I had a guy
13:22
Speaker 2: that would do that, and he would like, you know,
13:23
Speaker 2: he would like finger spell something and he would do
13:25
Speaker 2: the question mark or like it would be kind of
13:27
Speaker 2: like right or like when Rocky says, question, that's what
13:31
Speaker 2: that's what.
13:31
Speaker 3: That's like exactly exactly.
13:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. So ASL does not use b verbs is, are, was, where,
13:38
Speaker 2: and will be. That's that kind of an interesting thing.
13:41
Speaker 2: And verbs don't have a tense or plural conjugation. To
13:44
Speaker 2: express time, you almost always start with the time context
13:47
Speaker 2: at the beginning of the sentence to say, like, for example,
13:50
Speaker 2: to say I had soup for dinner last night, you
13:53
Speaker 2: would say last night eat soup for dinner, right and
13:56
Speaker 2: even and more specifically, last night eat soup dinner right
13:58
Speaker 2: like And to specify that you are talking about yourself
14:01
Speaker 2: or someone else, you might first point at the person
14:04
Speaker 2: you are talking about. Me and I are the same,
14:08
Speaker 2: So you could translate it to last night and me
14:10
Speaker 2: eat soup dinner, right, And that's and that would be
14:12
Speaker 2: the word for word translation into spoken English, but it's
14:15
Speaker 2: grammatically correct in ASL.
14:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and you could even probably drop dinner just
14:19
Speaker 1: say because I said last night, if I if I
14:21
Speaker 1: said it ate soup, I'm probably mean for dinner, right,
14:24
Speaker 1: And so yeah, it could be fairly short in there,
14:26
Speaker 1: exactly right. And yeah, with that tens or plural conjugation,
14:29
Speaker 1: you think about the fact that if I say, like
14:31
Speaker 1: we play games versus he plays games, there's a difference
14:35
Speaker 1: between the S and o s because you have a
14:37
Speaker 1: subject that is either plural or singular. Right in ASL,
14:40
Speaker 1: there's nothing that's you don't have to do that conjugation.
14:43
Speaker 1: And then there's also the tents like it happened in
14:45
Speaker 1: the past or happening in the future, is happening now,
14:47
Speaker 1: had happened in the past, and the perfect tense, Like
14:50
Speaker 1: there's all these different conjugations, and they're like, there are
14:53
Speaker 1: reasons to have those, particularly to affect a specific meaning,
14:56
Speaker 1: but you can get all those same ideas across without
14:59
Speaker 1: those conjugatesations, and ASL doesn't depend on those to exist.
15:03
Speaker 1: Otherwise it would be like, you know, fifteen different signs
15:06
Speaker 1: for a past tense verb as opposed to just saying
15:09
Speaker 1: in the past verb. You know, right, then that's sufficient
15:13
Speaker 1: to get that across, and then you don't have to
15:16
Speaker 1: memorize you know, ten times more signs than you otherwise
15:18
Speaker 1: need to use, or in this case, fifteen.
15:20
Speaker 3: Times more signs.
15:21
Speaker 1: Right for questions, when you're setting up the grammatical sentence,
15:25
Speaker 1: the question should always come at the end of the sentence.
15:28
Speaker 1: To ask someone what are you doing next, you would
15:31
Speaker 1: sign next you do what, And you would set it
15:34
Speaker 1: up that way, so you basically have the thing that
15:37
Speaker 1: you start with and you end with the question at
15:39
Speaker 1: the end. Or to sign how many pets do you have?
15:42
Speaker 1: You would sign pets you have how many? And this
15:46
Speaker 1: actually helps really clearly establish that the sentence is a
15:49
Speaker 1: question instead of a statement. Because again, particularly if you
15:52
Speaker 1: think that you're recognize the fact you might be dropping
15:55
Speaker 1: some words. You don't necessarily have verbs. There are some
15:57
Speaker 1: other like articles and things that are also dropped. It
16:00
Speaker 1: can be really quick to just say, if I phrase
16:02
Speaker 1: it with my question or the wh word at the beginning,
16:06
Speaker 1: this is a statement versus if I put at the
16:08
Speaker 1: end it's a question.
16:09
Speaker 2: Sure.
16:10
Speaker 1: That way, it's easier to understand as you see the
16:12
Speaker 1: sign whether or not they're saying something or asking something.
16:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting to see that kind of play
16:18
Speaker 2: out too, which is because when you're watching somebody communicate
16:20
Speaker 2: in ansl, like, it is really fascinating to kind of
16:22
Speaker 2: watch the sentence structure show up and like those different
16:25
Speaker 2: phrasings because you know, in vocal language, I think something
16:27
Speaker 2: that people that we don't talk about enough. I mean,
16:29
Speaker 2: we do talk about it, but we don't talk about
16:31
Speaker 2: how important it is in vocal language is inflection and
16:34
Speaker 2: how we might like you're like saying what are you doing?
16:38
Speaker 2: Versus what are you doing? Like those tend to have
16:41
Speaker 2: different meanings and contexts and stuff like that. But that inflection,
16:44
Speaker 2: even though it's structurally the same, is going to have
16:46
Speaker 2: a different feel because of how our tone goes.
16:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to expand that. I could say, what
16:51
Speaker 1: are you doing? Is a different how you're going to
16:53
Speaker 1: hear that?
16:54
Speaker 3: Then what are you doing? And like the exact same
16:56
Speaker 3: order of words or.
16:58
Speaker 2: What are you doing?
17:01
Speaker 3: Thank you? What are you doing?
17:07
Speaker 1: Like those saying those in different ways like this all
17:10
Speaker 1: have very very different meanings even though they are exact
17:13
Speaker 1: same order of words and yes, so and you can
17:17
Speaker 1: we'll actually get to that, Like there are ways to
17:19
Speaker 1: do inflection type deliveries in asl but the order of
17:21
Speaker 1: words kind of is one of them.
17:23
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. Now, another really important feature of signing
17:26
Speaker 2: is called non manual markers, and these are facial expressions
17:29
Speaker 2: like like Abraham just mentioned that are used to alter
17:32
Speaker 2: the meaning of words the way that we might use
17:34
Speaker 2: our tone in our voice or to altery meaning words
17:37
Speaker 2: when we use when we use a voice. Right, So,
17:38
Speaker 2: so when you sign happy, if you mean to communicate
17:42
Speaker 2: genuine joy, you should have a big smile on your
17:44
Speaker 2: face or else you might look very sarcastic, like if
17:47
Speaker 2: you just kind of yeah. So so Abraham signing it
17:49
Speaker 2: right now, which is really funny. So like I might
17:50
Speaker 2: like just sign if I have a stoic face, They're
17:52
Speaker 2: going to be like, Okay, you're being sarcastic. Yeah, But
17:54
Speaker 2: if I'm smiling big, then that's an exaggeration of the
17:57
Speaker 2: word and kind of like gives you the varying degrees
17:59
Speaker 2: to which somebody like those along that motional spectrum. Right, So,
18:03
Speaker 2: like I learned and you actually talk about this here,
18:06
Speaker 2: like the sign for tired, So like the sign for tired,
18:08
Speaker 2: Like the way that I learned it was you take
18:11
Speaker 2: your hand, your fingers are together, and you point to
18:13
Speaker 2: like where your are like near your like chests, near
18:15
Speaker 2: your armpits a little bit, or your shoulders like kind
18:17
Speaker 2: of like in the area, and then you kind of
18:19
Speaker 2: like they're pointing, and then you kind of drop your
18:22
Speaker 2: hands down a little bit, like you say, like, okay,
18:24
Speaker 2: so I'm tired, like and then you kind of drop
18:26
Speaker 2: your shoulders a little bit. But if you're exhausted, you
18:28
Speaker 2: might droop your head down a whole lot. You might
18:30
Speaker 2: like close your eyes, you might kind of make a
18:32
Speaker 2: more exaggerated movement. Yeah, and that's the difference between tired, exhausted,
18:36
Speaker 2: or anything like that, you know, so you can kind
18:37
Speaker 2: of see that exaggeration across those Yeah.
18:39
Speaker 1: And the non manual markers can also include some body
18:42
Speaker 1: language because you can kind of shift and move your
18:44
Speaker 1: torso around as you go. A lot of it's facial
18:47
Speaker 1: expressions and head movements, but it can include things like actually,
18:51
Speaker 1: the word or is just a body shift from one
18:53
Speaker 1: side to the other. So if you signed one thing
18:56
Speaker 1: and you're like or another thing, you just move your
18:57
Speaker 1: side your body over to the other side, and then
18:59
Speaker 1: you sign the second thing and that shift indicates or
19:02
Speaker 1: yes with that what that word means.
19:04
Speaker 2: And a lot of it too is like, so, so
19:07
Speaker 2: what I learned, and please tell me if I'm wrong,
19:08
Speaker 2: but like I learned a lot of ASL. Language when
19:11
Speaker 2: you are talking about people, places and stuff is like
19:13
Speaker 2: placement in space.
19:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when you.
19:15
Speaker 2: Like are talking about this other place that's very far away,
19:18
Speaker 2: you might like kind of like point in a direction
19:20
Speaker 2: or you might face a different direction that is going
19:22
Speaker 2: to indicate that this is this this direction or something
19:25
Speaker 2: like that. So like you use a lot of that
19:27
Speaker 2: to kind of like for like spatial like setups for conversations.
19:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
19:31
Speaker 1: Actually, there's a whole whole form of ASL that is
19:34
Speaker 1: a part of storytelling where you'll actually kind of visually
19:38
Speaker 1: construct the scene using your hands and you're like, Okay,
19:41
Speaker 1: this is this thing over here, this thing over here
19:42
Speaker 1: that you got some grass you got, like the sun
19:44
Speaker 1: is out, that's kind of warm, this clouds, Like you
19:46
Speaker 1: actually will visually try and paint the picture using your hands,
19:51
Speaker 1: and then you will sort of walk through that scene
19:54
Speaker 1: to tell the story that you want to tell. I mean,
19:56
Speaker 1: there's this really cool like performative element to creating this
20:01
Speaker 1: imaginative space using gestures and signals that they don't Actually,
20:05
Speaker 1: there's a lot of times when you're doing that, you're
20:07
Speaker 1: not using gestures that are specific signs. Instead, what you're
20:10
Speaker 1: doing you're just sort of creating a texture to set
20:12
Speaker 1: the scene. And there might be some signs you're using.
20:14
Speaker 1: You're like okay, over here, you like having You're like, yeah,
20:17
Speaker 1: there was a chair, and over here there was like
20:18
Speaker 1: this window or something like that, and you can then
20:22
Speaker 1: sort of set those things up where they were with
20:24
Speaker 1: respect to each other in the story that you're telling,
20:28
Speaker 1: rather than as you tell the story every time you
20:30
Speaker 1: have to say, oh, that the window was over to
20:31
Speaker 1: the left, over here, you can just reference the scene
20:33
Speaker 1: that you've created. And it's actually true about a lot
20:37
Speaker 1: of things in asl is. If you want to describe something, first,
20:40
Speaker 1: you'll take the thing, and then anything you say about
20:43
Speaker 1: it afterwards is still talking about that thing. So you like,
20:46
Speaker 1: you want to talk about your new car, it's just like, okay,
20:48
Speaker 1: new car, and then now we talk about the things
20:51
Speaker 1: with respect to it. And again there's some level of efficiency,
20:54
Speaker 1: but it also creates this kind of cool visual imagery
20:58
Speaker 1: and sort of scenery that helps tell the story, which
21:00
Speaker 1: I think is really neat. Yeah, it's so fascinating and yeah,
21:04
Speaker 1: just as you said, the more intensely you execute the
21:07
Speaker 1: expression of the body language, the more emphasis you're putting
21:10
Speaker 1: on the word. And this is important too, because adjectives
21:14
Speaker 1: barely exist inside of ASL, like there really isn't a
21:18
Speaker 1: very extremely really those don't those don't exist in ASL
21:23
Speaker 1: to say something is good. Just as an example here,
21:26
Speaker 1: so let's talk through a sign, the sign for the
21:29
Speaker 1: word good. You start with the flat hand, palm facing you,
21:33
Speaker 1: and the sort of tip of your hands touching your chin,
21:36
Speaker 1: and then you move it down and away from your
21:38
Speaker 1: face into your other hand.
21:39
Speaker 3: That's good, Okay.
21:41
Speaker 1: If you do this gesture really intensely with a look
21:43
Speaker 1: on your face that says hell, yeah, you're sort of
21:45
Speaker 1: saying this is great. You're like yeah, good, yeah, really good,
21:49
Speaker 1: Like that's that's how you would do that. That emphasis
21:52
Speaker 1: is like it's just a quick good like hands just
21:55
Speaker 1: down the way from your chin into the other hand,
21:57
Speaker 1: simple gesture or like a really intense like so good.
22:01
Speaker 2: Yeah.
22:01
Speaker 1: The more you sort of emphasize that with your face
22:03
Speaker 1: and the motion that portrays the adjective, and does that
22:08
Speaker 1: work for you? And honestly, like the tone of our
22:11
Speaker 1: voice would do that a lot if we were just
22:12
Speaker 1: in conversation, like we can say really good, extremely awesome,
22:16
Speaker 1: like very very good, or you can just say like
22:19
Speaker 1: you just good and like that tone of voice also
22:22
Speaker 1: sort of does it, right, So that's the similar idea here.
22:26
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, like or like I mean thankfully ASL doesn't
22:29
Speaker 2: have a sign for brother, so you could say hell
22:30
Speaker 2: yeah brother, like hell yeah brother, like you could do that,
22:33
Speaker 2: and that's that also works too. Maybe that's a Florida thing.
22:35
Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe that's Florida sign language.
22:38
Speaker 3: There's a sign for brother.
22:39
Speaker 2: There's a sign for brother. Yes. Yes, So if you
22:41
Speaker 2: want to say something is really good and you really agree,
22:44
Speaker 2: hell yeah brother works, gotcha. This is a This is
22:47
Speaker 2: all really really important for questions when we talk about
22:50
Speaker 2: like these facial expressions in this exaggeration, because when you're
22:52
Speaker 2: asking yes no questions, you need to raise your eyebrows
22:55
Speaker 2: when you get the yes no clause of the set,
22:57
Speaker 2: when you get to that part of the sentence, right,
22:59
Speaker 2: so you make that part in the you kind of
23:00
Speaker 2: raise your eyebrows as like an emphasis for that. But
23:02
Speaker 2: when asking open ended questions, you must fur your brow
23:05
Speaker 2: down during the question. Part of the clause, and that's
23:08
Speaker 2: going to kind of prompt further explanation.
23:10
Speaker 3: Yeah.
23:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if I say something like, what ads do
23:13
Speaker 1: you want to listen to? When I get to listen to,
23:15
Speaker 1: part of my eyebrows come down. I said, do you
23:16
Speaker 1: want to listen to ads? And the eyebrows go up, and.
23:19
Speaker 4: I'm gonna say bad. Yeah, say no bad, no, no bad. Okay,
23:32
Speaker 4: we're back. Been talking about some of the ASL signs
23:34
Speaker 4: and the fact that the non manual markers a way
23:37
Speaker 4: that you can adjust sort of the meaning, inflection, tone
23:41
Speaker 4: and everything of those signs. And that's the body language
23:44
Speaker 4: you use here.
23:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, the speed and the intensity the sign can
23:48
Speaker 2: communicate the inflection and meaning. Like we kind of mentioned earlier.
23:51
Speaker 2: To sign no, you hold up your dominant hand in
23:53
Speaker 2: a horizontal fist. You extend your index and middle finger
23:56
Speaker 2: together and your thumb like almost like you're kind of
23:58
Speaker 2: making like a little alligator face. Yeah, or a duck face,
24:01
Speaker 2: I guess, because most people know what ducks are, not alligators?
24:03
Speaker 2: What am I talking about? And you tap your fingers
24:06
Speaker 2: against your thumb in a pinching motion, and you can
24:09
Speaker 2: simply do this as a quick like nonchalot no, or
24:12
Speaker 2: you can do this really fast and aggressively and like
24:14
Speaker 2: and mean absolutely not, and you can include some facial
24:17
Speaker 2: expressions to even put further emphasis to this, or you
24:19
Speaker 2: can do a couple taps that mean a sort of
24:21
Speaker 2: an elongated NA something like that. So you can see
24:24
Speaker 2: how those little differences actually change everything.
24:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that affects the meaning quite a bit. Also,
24:30
Speaker 1: simply shaking your head can function as a negation to
24:33
Speaker 1: added to other signs. So, for example, to sign understand,
24:37
Speaker 1: you hold your dominant hand in a fist by your head,
24:39
Speaker 1: with the back of your hand facing forward towards your audience,
24:42
Speaker 1: and then you'll sort of slowly move your index finger
24:44
Speaker 1: up and down in sort of a flicking motion. But
24:46
Speaker 1: again it's kind of slow, and usually you're in a
24:49
Speaker 1: company that is the head non that means I do understand.
24:51
Speaker 1: Versus if you do that same motion but you shake
24:53
Speaker 1: your head back and forth in a no, you're saying
24:55
Speaker 1: I don't understand. So it's the exact same hand signal,
24:58
Speaker 1: but you use your head to affirm or negate that.
25:02
Speaker 1: And there are several where the sign itself is just
25:05
Speaker 1: the sign. But if you shake your head while doing it,
25:07
Speaker 1: it means a negation of that sign. So like, there's
25:10
Speaker 1: the have sign, which looks very similar to tired. It's
25:13
Speaker 1: your sort of two open hands touching sort of on
25:15
Speaker 1: your chest near your armpits.
25:17
Speaker 3: Then that just means have. But if you just shake
25:19
Speaker 3: your head while doing that, you're saying don't have.
25:21
Speaker 2: Sure, right, Many signs are actually fairly intuitive to recognize,
25:25
Speaker 2: even if you haven't learned any signs. So signing yes
25:28
Speaker 2: is making your dominant hand into a fist and motioning
25:31
Speaker 2: up and down in a nodding motion, like nodding your head,
25:34
Speaker 2: except you're doing with your fist. The sign for eat
25:36
Speaker 2: looks like like kind of like you're putting food in
25:38
Speaker 2: your mouth. The sign for elephant is moving your hand
25:40
Speaker 2: away from your nose in sort of a wave motion downward,
25:44
Speaker 2: like an elephant trunk. So yeah, you're kind of like,
25:47
Speaker 2: I mean, you don't make that noise if you don't
25:48
Speaker 2: have to. But like, but that is like some of
25:50
Speaker 2: them are very intuitive, and.
25:51
Speaker 1: I think there are actually many more that are like this.
25:53
Speaker 1: I mean to talk about a part of your body,
25:55
Speaker 1: A lot of times you just point to that part
25:56
Speaker 1: of your body you want to talk about your eyes. Yeah,
25:58
Speaker 1: you point to your eyes, and so, like, there are
26:01
Speaker 1: a lot of signs that I think are very intuitive.
26:03
Speaker 1: There are many that you wouldn't necessarily recognize. You see
26:06
Speaker 1: it and you're like, what's that supposed to mean? Which, again,
26:08
Speaker 1: there's like so many different ways to communicate these things,
26:11
Speaker 1: but there are many that are quite intuitive. Yeah, most definitely,
26:14
Speaker 1: the deaf community has also found ways to sort of
26:16
Speaker 1: use wordplay with they're signs.
26:18
Speaker 3: They tell their own versions of jokes that really wouldn't.
26:20
Speaker 1: Translate directly to English, because the whole point is that
26:23
Speaker 1: the sign is kind of a pun, you know. Yeah,
26:25
Speaker 1: and so the deaf community has a lot of their
26:28
Speaker 1: own humor and jokes that are unique to them than
26:30
Speaker 1: anyone who understands the language, of course. But that's kind
26:33
Speaker 1: of just a fun thing to know as well, is
26:35
Speaker 1: that because signs have their own meanings, their own context,
26:39
Speaker 1: they can kind of have fun with how they deliver
26:41
Speaker 1: those signs in a way that if you were to
26:43
Speaker 1: say in English wouldn't sound like a joke, but an
26:45
Speaker 1: ASL would be hilarious.
26:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Two of my favorite ones that I learned is
26:49
Speaker 2: when somebody says they can say their alphabet backwards and
26:52
Speaker 2: they just turn their back to you and then spell
26:54
Speaker 2: over their shoulder, that's really good. That that one was
27:01
Speaker 2: really good. And then the other one is the sign
27:04
Speaker 2: for understand. So like the sign for stand is you
27:06
Speaker 2: put your hand flat out like it's a horizontal plane,
27:09
Speaker 2: and you put like two fingers up like it's a
27:10
Speaker 2: person's legs standing, and you just flip it upside down,
27:13
Speaker 2: and then that's understand.
27:16
Speaker 3: It's the version of understand.
27:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's great, it's it's
27:21
Speaker 2: it was really like And again I think that that's
27:23
Speaker 2: I think that speaks to the unique context in culture
27:27
Speaker 2: and the richest of a culture that has its own
27:29
Speaker 2: jokes that can only be understood by the audience and
27:31
Speaker 2: the members of that community. Like I think that's really
27:33
Speaker 2: lovely and beautiful, and I think that's a sign of
27:34
Speaker 2: like a really like growing community, you know.
27:37
Speaker 3: So absolutely.
27:38
Speaker 2: So finally, we should point out that signs are evolving,
27:41
Speaker 2: just like other languages. There are many signs for other
27:43
Speaker 2: countries and cultures that are somewhat insensitive, stereotypical and racist
27:48
Speaker 2: that have or i've gradually been changed to less offensive signs.
27:51
Speaker 2: So you might have a sign that was historically used
27:53
Speaker 2: that made sense, and then that has changed over time
27:56
Speaker 2: because it is not an accurate representation of that group
27:59
Speaker 2: or that place, and it's kind of evolved with the
28:01
Speaker 2: times to be more sensitive or more inclusive.
28:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the people of eighteen sixteen when the
28:06
Speaker 1: school have founded, despite the fact that they were doing
28:09
Speaker 1: some support for minority groups, this was still a point
28:11
Speaker 1: in time where a lot of people were still not
28:14
Speaker 1: being treated very well in the United States. And the idea,
28:18
Speaker 1: I mean, look at the name of the school, like
28:20
Speaker 1: the deaf and Dumb was like the name that was
28:22
Speaker 1: originally there because that's what that meant at the time.
28:25
Speaker 1: And obviously those things have changed and evolved over time,
28:28
Speaker 1: but they also just had some very insensitive thoughts and
28:31
Speaker 1: ideas about women and people of other countries and other races,
28:35
Speaker 1: and so those are are things that have changed over
28:39
Speaker 1: time because they were just sort of an artifact of
28:41
Speaker 1: the fact that those were terms that were used, and
28:44
Speaker 1: they're sort of like, let's just evolve here, let's develop
28:47
Speaker 1: this a little bit better, yeah, and try some other things.
28:49
Speaker 1: So that's just you know, some emerging and evolution of
28:53
Speaker 1: those signs is happening, just like any other language as well.
28:56
Speaker 1: Right right also, and one of the other ways that
28:58
Speaker 1: they're changing is some are getting more efficient, some are
29:00
Speaker 1: actually getting using more movements. But that's also true of
29:03
Speaker 1: English as well, where it's like we use an initialism
29:06
Speaker 1: or an acronym to say something that's faster to say
29:08
Speaker 1: by using the actual words like BTW, I'm like, be
29:12
Speaker 1: right back actually has fewer syllables than btwwa or BRB
29:18
Speaker 1: is b right back, by the way, is what I
29:19
Speaker 1: was thinking of has Yeah, BTW, Like people like speaking
29:23
Speaker 1: acronim like that's actually more effortful. Anyway, same thing is
29:26
Speaker 1: going on that some are getting more efficient, but some
29:28
Speaker 1: are also adopting some slang, and they're like turning slang
29:31
Speaker 1: that was once was slaying into formal signs, or they're
29:34
Speaker 1: getting more specific. Some are actually going from a generic
29:38
Speaker 1: sign to more specific individual signs for things. Some signs
29:42
Speaker 1: have regional variations that sometimes what was the regional variation
29:45
Speaker 1: actually becomes the dominant sign in most places. Later, even
29:49
Speaker 1: in the last fifteen years, some signs are no longer
29:51
Speaker 1: really used and new ones have taken their place. Actually
29:54
Speaker 1: the sign for people I saw some content creators on
29:57
Speaker 1: YouTube indicating that there's a new sign emerging that might
29:59
Speaker 1: replace that. It's like becoming more common, Okay, And not
30:02
Speaker 1: that I don't know if there's anything necessarily wrong with
30:04
Speaker 1: the way that they were doing it, but maybe they
30:06
Speaker 1: just thought the new way was a little bit easier, yeah,
30:08
Speaker 1: or something. But yeah, it's just an evolving language with
30:11
Speaker 1: things that change and develop over time, like all languages.
30:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Behaviorally speaking, which is one of our favorite
30:19
Speaker 2: things to talk about, sign language functions the same way
30:21
Speaker 2: as any language. Words have functions moderated by a trained
30:24
Speaker 2: audience and utilizes transformation of stimulus function to participate in
30:27
Speaker 2: relational frames. That's a really complicated way of saying. Sign
30:31
Speaker 2: language is verbal behavior, just not vocal behavior. It's subject
30:35
Speaker 2: to reinforcement, it's subject to punishment. It requires some prerequisites
30:39
Speaker 2: to be able to start. So, like one thing that
30:41
Speaker 2: we have been talking about is like the shape of
30:42
Speaker 2: some signs, but like some folks require maybe like some
30:45
Speaker 2: fine motor movement to be able to make some signs,
30:48
Speaker 2: and when they don't have the fine motor movement, they
30:49
Speaker 2: might do modified signs. So it's like a little bit
30:52
Speaker 2: of a different way to go about it. So like
30:54
Speaker 2: there's different ways to kind of which for the same
30:55
Speaker 2: reason that we modify our vocal language if we need
30:58
Speaker 2: to write, like if somebody who has a severe stutter
31:01
Speaker 2: is having a difficult time with certain words, they might
31:04
Speaker 2: use different words in place of that, and they're modifying
31:06
Speaker 2: their vocal language so that they can actually communicate effectively
31:10
Speaker 2: with their conditions. So like it's it's we see some
31:12
Speaker 2: of those things kind of shift and change and grow,
31:14
Speaker 2: like just from basic behavioral functions.
31:17
Speaker 1: It's actually true of elderly signers as well. Sometimes with
31:20
Speaker 1: arthritis and like just lack of motility or like mobility
31:24
Speaker 1: over time and dexterity, they will use they'll have to
31:27
Speaker 1: use modified signs because their fingers just can't make the
31:30
Speaker 1: same movements that they used to make. And then you're
31:33
Speaker 1: exactly right that like thinking of younger kids, and we
31:35
Speaker 1: think of like for those people who are behavior analyst
31:38
Speaker 1: listeners of ours, there's something called nikok, which is basically
31:41
Speaker 1: just repeat sound that you hear that you hear, which
31:44
Speaker 1: can include words. You can imagine, like that's an important
31:47
Speaker 1: early foundational step for language acquisition, is that they just
31:50
Speaker 1: start repeating back the sounds that they're hearing. The same
31:53
Speaker 1: is true for signs. You get to imagine, like they're
31:55
Speaker 1: starting to practice scene if they can make the shapes
31:57
Speaker 1: with their fingers in their hands that you are making,
32:00
Speaker 1: and try and mirror that and do their the same
32:02
Speaker 1: version of it. So again it follows the same behavioral
32:06
Speaker 1: trajectory as any other language, and it does start to
32:10
Speaker 1: like the grammar starts to evolve in shape, and it
32:12
Speaker 1: becomes clearer and faster and more articulate, and the vocabulary grows,
32:16
Speaker 1: and so any behaviors that facilitate social communication in this
32:20
Speaker 1: way engage cognition and behavior in the exact same way
32:24
Speaker 1: that language would. They're shaped and reinforced by that social audience,
32:28
Speaker 1: and they've developed a behavioral cusp. Which is this idea
32:31
Speaker 1: probably worth unpacking in a many at some point, But
32:33
Speaker 1: the idea is that many new behaviors, repertoires and reinforcers
32:37
Speaker 1: occur because you've now established a new patterning of behaviors
32:40
Speaker 1: that unlocks a huge new amount of behaviors that could
32:43
Speaker 1: potentially exist, And that signing is a language in the
32:47
Speaker 1: exact same way. So it works the same way. As
32:49
Speaker 1: you develop those signs, you can do more and more
32:51
Speaker 1: and more with those signs and kind of an exponential growth.
32:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for those of you who struggle between behavioral
32:56
Speaker 2: custs and pivotal behaviors, I always learned that behavioral cusps
32:59
Speaker 2: open you up to oh noud so and that has
33:05
Speaker 2: stuck with me. So like now you get to hear
33:07
Speaker 2: me sing Aladdin, and uh, there's that also too. We
33:11
Speaker 2: were talking about a koax. I'm so glad you brought
33:12
Speaker 2: up a cox because for those of you are my
33:15
Speaker 2: behavior as friends and those of you want to just
33:16
Speaker 2: learn some interesting snapple cap facts about behaviorism. And a
33:20
Speaker 2: koic is just a duplic right underneath the verbal behavior period, right,
33:24
Speaker 2: so duplicate, A duplicate is a duplication of the it's
33:26
Speaker 2: an exact duplication. And a kok is the vocal one.
33:29
Speaker 2: A mimetic is the sign. So we have a word
33:34
Speaker 2: for the verbal behavior of copying sign language, and that
33:38
Speaker 2: is our mimetics, so like which is just you know,
33:41
Speaker 2: miming instead of echoing, which is really cool. So just
33:44
Speaker 2: so you have more words on that, Yeah, and I think.
33:46
Speaker 1: I think with the definition, it just means that there's
33:48
Speaker 1: one to one correspondence, right, Like I don't that's literally
33:51
Speaker 1: all it is. Yeah, I don't think that the even
33:53
Speaker 1: necessarily the form was directly included that it like had
33:56
Speaker 1: to be auditory. But I mean I think it was
33:58
Speaker 1: specified that way to show but.
34:00
Speaker 2: I think you got specified later.
34:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I mean, if you really just take
34:04
Speaker 1: the definition of like, this is a verbal response that
34:07
Speaker 1: has one to one correspondence with another. One language is
34:10
Speaker 1: verbal behavior. Signed language is verbal behavior one to one correspondence.
34:14
Speaker 3: Ekoic yep, boom, got it, nail. Philosophy got nerds.
34:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, the relative articulation pattern in specific behavioral forms
34:22
Speaker 2: are unique to specific communities. It will become fluent and
34:25
Speaker 2: quote unquote ingrained. These are gradually reinforced or not by
34:28
Speaker 2: their use in the community. And this is how meanings change.
34:31
Speaker 2: This is why slang works the way it does. It
34:34
Speaker 2: shows up in certain communities, it stays in certain communities.
34:37
Speaker 2: It shows up. I mean, we just talked about this
34:38
Speaker 2: in AAVB right or AAV I'm sorry AAV. We talked
34:42
Speaker 2: about how like certain slang will show up in certain
34:44
Speaker 2: communities and it'll stay there, and it's like so much,
34:48
Speaker 2: it's so important for that particular dialect or group or
34:52
Speaker 2: section or language itself.
34:53
Speaker 1: You know, would AA BV is be like African American
34:57
Speaker 1: by volume.
34:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be it, And that's probably not a
35:03
Speaker 2: measure that's used by real scientists.
35:07
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay, So anyway, all of this is
35:10
Speaker 1: just to say that, like like like any other language,
35:13
Speaker 1: this is verbal behavior that's shaped, it's developed, those regional
35:16
Speaker 1: sort of things. The way that people form their own
35:19
Speaker 1: articulations and gestures will be probably somewhat idiosyncratic to the
35:24
Speaker 1: community in which they spend their most time, because what
35:27
Speaker 1: fluent looks like to them is what functions effectively inside
35:31
Speaker 1: their community. Now with the intervention of the Internet and
35:34
Speaker 1: our ability to communicate with a large swath of people
35:36
Speaker 1: and like teleconferencing type things where we can see each
35:39
Speaker 1: other now, because I think one of the ways that
35:41
Speaker 1: a lot of deaf and hard of hearing people use
35:43
Speaker 1: their phone is they'll do FaceTime because they're obviously not
35:46
Speaker 1: like particularly if they're profound deaf, like they have no
35:49
Speaker 1: hearing or it's the loss is so great they can't
35:51
Speaker 1: use assisted hearing devices. They're going to look at the
35:55
Speaker 1: person and sign to each other through their phone. And
35:57
Speaker 1: actually because of that they have sorted developed being a
36:00
Speaker 1: bunch of one hand modifications too, many of the signs
36:03
Speaker 1: because they got to hold the phone with one hand
36:05
Speaker 1: and sign with the other. So there's like even more
36:07
Speaker 1: development around those, which is kind of cool. That's own thing.
36:10
Speaker 2: So listen, I worked with an adult client who would
36:12
Speaker 2: have phone sex via FaceTime and would have to FaceTime
36:16
Speaker 2: with with this partner and they would sign and they
36:19
Speaker 2: would sign and do that. That's how they that's how
36:20
Speaker 2: they would have like meaningful sexual relations.
36:23
Speaker 3: Wow.
36:23
Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, it's technology solving problems.
36:27
Speaker 2: I will also say too, really fascinating thing. They would
36:30
Speaker 2: have to sometimes do that, Like when he had a
36:31
Speaker 2: hearing partner that didn't speak language, they would have to
36:33
Speaker 2: have an interpreter, so they would use an interpreter for
36:35
Speaker 2: phone sex sometimes two. That's amazing, It's pretty incredible. What
36:39
Speaker 2: my point is, like, those services exist, folks. They are
36:42
Speaker 2: out there, so just to know for for pleasure seeking behaviors,
36:46
Speaker 2: it's accessible.
36:46
Speaker 1: But you didn't know we were gonna end up with it.
36:48
Speaker 1: With all that, I didn't I did not see it coming.
36:52
Speaker 1: I didn't see these ads coming either.
37:01
Speaker 3: All right, we're back.
37:01
Speaker 1: We've been discussing some of the sort of ways to
37:04
Speaker 1: unpack functionally what's going on with sign language, and really, unfortunately,
37:07
Speaker 1: I think there's not a lot to say in addition
37:09
Speaker 1: to what we might say about verbal behavior more broadly,
37:12
Speaker 1: not that that is a topic that we've actually comprehensively tackled,
37:15
Speaker 1: and I think we probably will in the near future,
37:17
Speaker 1: but just thinking about and understanding how language works, sign
37:20
Speaker 1: language works the same way. M M. There's actually even
37:23
Speaker 1: a recent study looking neurologically at what's going on in
37:25
Speaker 1: the brains of people who are speaking different languages and
37:28
Speaker 1: showing that there seems to be a semantic map of
37:31
Speaker 1: different languages that they looked at in the brain. So
37:33
Speaker 1: certain words in one language had the same basic location
37:36
Speaker 1: as words that semantically meant the same thing in a
37:39
Speaker 1: different language, which is exactly what I would have predicted
37:41
Speaker 1: if they'd asked me my opinion, But they didn't, And
37:44
Speaker 1: I don't think that they did it with people who
37:46
Speaker 1: were speaking sign language, but I'd be really I would
37:49
Speaker 1: be willing to bet my hat on the idea that
37:52
Speaker 1: they the semantic locations are exactly the same in sign
37:54
Speaker 1: language as they are in vocal language. Oh yeah, with
37:57
Speaker 1: respect to those meanings. So I think probably those studies
38:00
Speaker 1: are forthcoming. I'm not sure, but I'd be willing to
38:03
Speaker 1: bet again that that is the case.
38:06
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, most definitely.
38:07
Speaker 1: And all this leaves us with the fact that signing
38:09
Speaker 1: is very cool. It's really fun. It allows you to
38:11
Speaker 1: potentially communicate with more people. You can have more friends,
38:14
Speaker 1: you can have more communication skills. There are also other
38:17
Speaker 1: cool advantages that I like about signing that I think
38:20
Speaker 1: are like, for one thing, if you're in a really
38:21
Speaker 1: loud place and it's really hard to hear each other,
38:23
Speaker 1: you could be signing to each other as the thing
38:25
Speaker 1: that you could potentially do. And I think that it
38:28
Speaker 1: is also helpful. This wouldn't work if everybody learns to sign,
38:31
Speaker 1: but if you're in a place where not very many
38:32
Speaker 1: people sign, you could potentially be talking to each other
38:34
Speaker 1: in a way that is a little bit more covert
38:36
Speaker 1: than trying to whisper under your breath or something.
38:38
Speaker 2: Yeah.
38:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I'm as a bonus recommend because I'm going
38:41
Speaker 1: to get to our regular recommendations in a little bit.
38:43
Speaker 1: But as a bonus recommend I say start learning asl
38:45
Speaker 1: practice a little bit every day and it will add
38:48
Speaker 1: up even a few minutes every day, It will add up,
38:50
Speaker 1: I promise you, like I practice a lot and more
38:53
Speaker 1: than most people need to commit to this. But if
38:56
Speaker 1: you just even did alphabet and counting every day, like
38:58
Speaker 1: that'll take you a long ways. And if you learned
39:00
Speaker 1: like a few new signs every week, you'd be surprised
39:03
Speaker 1: at how quickly you start having a lot of things
39:06
Speaker 1: that you can say and sign, Yeah, that you can
39:09
Speaker 1: actually use on a regular basis and potentially help someone
39:12
Speaker 1: or you know, make new friends or just you know,
39:14
Speaker 1: be a cooler person because you know how to.
39:16
Speaker 3: Do sign language.
39:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, most definitely.
39:18
Speaker 1: But we do have some interesting tid points, yes, we
39:21
Speaker 1: do to talk about, which is take home points that
39:24
Speaker 1: are also tidbits, uh huh.
39:26
Speaker 3: And so let's talk about this.
39:28
Speaker 2: So we mentioned there are some regional variations of signs,
39:31
Speaker 2: specifically with ASL, but different countries also use different systems
39:35
Speaker 2: of signing altogether. So there is British Sign Language which
39:38
Speaker 2: is BSL, there is French Sign Language FSL, Chinese Sign
39:42
Speaker 2: Language CSL, Japanese Sign Language JSL, and over three hundred
39:47
Speaker 2: different variations of sign language. I was thinking about this too,
39:50
Speaker 2: because I find that Chinese and Japanese like sign language,
39:53
Speaker 2: or like any any language that has like characters that
39:56
Speaker 2: are like symbols versus like specific letters. I think you're
39:59
Speaker 2: really fascinating because like the symbols themselves already carry so much,
40:03
Speaker 2: like so much of the word, like so much of
40:06
Speaker 2: the phrase, so like one symbol could be like multiple words.
40:10
Speaker 2: So like I think that's really fascinating to think about
40:12
Speaker 2: that being translated into like sign language type of feature.
40:15
Speaker 2: Like there's something really cool about that.
40:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that is really cool.
40:19
Speaker 1: Yeah interesting, and yeah, I mean superimpose any number of
40:22
Speaker 1: other countries that have these that are in there, but yeah,
40:25
Speaker 1: you get the sense language of origin sign language. There's
40:28
Speaker 1: those over three hundred of them. There is a version
40:32
Speaker 1: of sign language that is designed to map directly onto
40:36
Speaker 1: English as a one to one translation that does exist.
40:39
Speaker 1: It's called Signed Exact English or SEE. Is not technically
40:44
Speaker 1: a language in itself. It's essentially a way to mutually
40:47
Speaker 1: code gestures to represent English, so it's sort of supposed
40:51
Speaker 1: to be a supplement. It is described as being used
40:53
Speaker 1: to help deaf and hard of hearing and hearing impaired
40:55
Speaker 1: people gain mastery over English at as it is spoken,
40:59
Speaker 1: but it is not super common and it is not
41:03
Speaker 1: really what is used by like the deaferent heart of
41:06
Speaker 1: hearing and hearing impaired community very much. But it is
41:09
Speaker 1: a thing that exists, and there's like a functional reason
41:12
Speaker 1: to have it. But yeah, signed exact English is a
41:14
Speaker 1: thing where you do have whatever you say in English,
41:16
Speaker 1: you say the exact same version of that in a
41:18
Speaker 1: version of sign.
41:20
Speaker 2: Yeah. So there is an international sign language called guests
41:22
Speaker 2: douno or just you know.
41:24
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I forgot to look up the pronunciation.
41:26
Speaker 1: I'm guessing just dono.
41:28
Speaker 2: Maybe I would guess that too, because it's probably gesture related,
41:31
Speaker 2: like a manual Esperanto that is very visual and simple
41:35
Speaker 2: and supposed to be able to be used by anyone
41:37
Speaker 2: from any country to streamline communication. However, it is not
41:40
Speaker 2: a language as much as it is a bridge to
41:42
Speaker 2: help facilitate international communication.
41:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't think we've ever talked about Esperanto
41:48
Speaker 1: on here. Some people will know and some people won't.
41:50
Speaker 1: But there was an attempt, I want to say, in
41:53
Speaker 1: the seventies to create a universal language, and it was
41:56
Speaker 1: a combination of a variety of languages. It was called Esperanto,
42:00
Speaker 1: and it was supposed to be like, let's just get
42:01
Speaker 1: everyone on Earth speaking the same language that would have
42:03
Speaker 1: all these benefits. They're not wrong, but obviously it didn't
42:06
Speaker 1: super take off, but there are people like it is technically,
42:09
Speaker 1: as far as I know, it is still a living language,
42:11
Speaker 1: like there are people who know how to speak it,
42:13
Speaker 1: and this is a version of that where it's like
42:15
Speaker 1: it's sort of a simplified, streamlined version of sign language
42:19
Speaker 1: that uses a bunch of different signs that's supposed to
42:22
Speaker 1: be very very visual, and right now it seems to
42:24
Speaker 1: be that it's not necessarily a language, but the idea
42:27
Speaker 1: is to just help bridge international speakers sure using those signs.
42:31
Speaker 1: So people who I think primarily communicate using ASL like
42:35
Speaker 1: picking up this is not really a big ass because
42:38
Speaker 1: it's sort of like, here are ways you could do
42:39
Speaker 1: these signs that will if you meet someone who's from
42:42
Speaker 1: another country who speaks a different version of sign language,
42:44
Speaker 1: they might understand fairly easily, right.
42:47
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's kind of cool.
42:48
Speaker 1: There's also a version of ASL for people who are deafblind,
42:53
Speaker 1: called pro tactile. So obviously if you have someone who
42:57
Speaker 1: is also visually impaired, then signings not to be super
43:00
Speaker 1: effective because that is a visual communication. So instead this
43:04
Speaker 1: uses the feeling of touch on the hands and wrist
43:07
Speaker 1: and the elbow and to help communicate by feeling the
43:10
Speaker 1: signs someone else makes and vice versa, so you kind
43:13
Speaker 1: of your hands are on their hands and vice versa
43:16
Speaker 1: when you're gonna be touching your hands and arms and
43:18
Speaker 1: doing gestures into those And this is essentially what was
43:21
Speaker 1: done with Helen Color, like that was a version of that.
43:23
Speaker 1: That protactile is teaching a version of being able to
43:27
Speaker 1: sign so that you can communicate because she can't hear,
43:30
Speaker 1: and she also can't see what you're doing, so it's
43:32
Speaker 1: like we need some kind of tactile stimulation and use
43:34
Speaker 1: the sense of touch to communicate.
43:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense, all.
43:38
Speaker 1: Right, Well, I think that's what you have to say
43:39
Speaker 1: about sign language. I've talked about this before. I just
43:42
Speaker 1: I love this language. I think it's so cool. Learning
43:44
Speaker 1: it has been so much fun. It's one of these
43:47
Speaker 1: things too, where it's like being able to see the
43:49
Speaker 1: progress in myself is very very clear, Like it's abundantly
43:53
Speaker 1: clear to me. As I get better and better at this,
43:56
Speaker 1: I can sign faster, I can understand seeing people sign faster,
43:59
Speaker 1: I can spell faster, I can think of things inside
44:02
Speaker 1: and I love that feeling. I love the feeling of
44:05
Speaker 1: like seeing, of being able to see myself improve. I
44:08
Speaker 1: love the feeling of learning tremendously. It's like my favorite
44:11
Speaker 1: thing in the world, and so I strongly encourage people
44:16
Speaker 1: to check it out. And I really was happy to
44:18
Speaker 1: be able to actually do an episode on this.
44:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so cool.
44:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do hope that I really get a
44:23
Speaker 1: chance to actually start getting immersed more in the deaf
44:25
Speaker 1: community and deaf culture and being able to really communicate.
44:28
Speaker 1: Right now, it's kind of it's like an academic thing.
44:30
Speaker 1: I'm doing it because I want to do it, and
44:31
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of people I can actually
44:33
Speaker 1: use it with, But I'm looking forward to an opportunity
44:36
Speaker 1: to start really getting more immersed in the deaf community.
44:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so cool. It's such a funding to learn,
44:41
Speaker 2: and like my experience learning it many years ago was
44:45
Speaker 2: just wonderful. It was so much fun to learn so
44:48
Speaker 2: and it was so useful. It was so useful to
44:50
Speaker 2: learn in that space. So I a second the recommendation
44:52
Speaker 2: of learning how to do it, because I think it's
44:54
Speaker 2: I think it's beautiful. I would recommend learning from like
44:56
Speaker 2: a reputable resource. Yes, don't just pick up sign language
44:59
Speaker 2: from like random YouTube videos. Like make sure it's a
45:01
Speaker 2: reputable source, because sometimes you're gonna learn a sign and
45:06
Speaker 2: like just a small positioning of your hand could change
45:09
Speaker 2: the entire meaning of the word. So like make sure
45:11
Speaker 2: that you're learning from somewhere that's like it makes you know,
45:13
Speaker 2: there's a difference between lunch and some other words that
45:16
Speaker 2: might not be what you're trying to say.
45:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually I saw a really funny video to
45:21
Speaker 1: people we're talking and mentioned how so the sign for
45:25
Speaker 1: precious is in one part of the country. In a
45:28
Speaker 1: different part of the country, the sign for the word underwear. Yeah,
45:32
Speaker 1: this person. So one thing we didn't talk about in
45:34
Speaker 1: this episode is that a lot of people in the
45:37
Speaker 1: deaf community, they rather than spell each other's names every time,
45:40
Speaker 1: they'll come up with name signs. And it's actually kind
45:42
Speaker 1: of as an honor if you're not in the deaf
45:44
Speaker 1: community already to be given a name sign. But yeah,
45:47
Speaker 1: the people who speak to each other in asl they'll
45:49
Speaker 1: come up with signs for their name rather than spell
45:51
Speaker 1: their name every time. So in this one story, a
45:54
Speaker 1: man who had a deaf son use the sign for
45:57
Speaker 1: precious as his name sign, and when they moved to
46:00
Speaker 1: a different part of the country where that meant underwear,
46:03
Speaker 1: they were laughing because they were like, my son underwear
46:07
Speaker 1: and he showed them the sign and they're.
46:10
Speaker 3: Like, thought, that was very funny. So anyway, just a
46:13
Speaker 3: fun thing there.
46:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, name signs are cool. That would be cool, Mini,
46:16
Speaker 2: that would be yeah.
46:17
Speaker 3: I agree.
46:19
Speaker 1: I think that's what we have to say about ASL
46:20
Speaker 1: and ASL really things. You should tell us your thoughts
46:22
Speaker 1: reach out to us. You can write to us directly
46:24
Speaker 1: at info at WWDWWD podcast dot com, or on the
46:28
Speaker 1: social media platforms, and we very much look forward to
46:30
Speaker 1: hearing from you about this topic. We do have some
46:33
Speaker 1: recommendations to get into which if you're joining us for
46:36
Speaker 1: the first time, we just recommend some stuff unrelated to
46:38
Speaker 1: our topic at hand. But it is a thing that
46:40
Speaker 1: we do that was just really fun and we save
46:42
Speaker 1: that for the very end, so stick around for that part.
46:44
Speaker 1: But before we get into that, I would like to
46:47
Speaker 1: acknowledge all the people who helped make this podcast happen
46:50
Speaker 1: because I need a team, a team of a smart people,
46:53
Speaker 1: so writing and fact checking from Shane and myself. Thank
46:55
Speaker 1: you for recording with me today.
46:56
Speaker 2: Shane, Hey anytime.
46:58
Speaker 1: Our social media coordinator as Emma Wilson, and our God
47:01
Speaker 1: Emperor producer extraordinaiy.
47:04
Speaker 3: Is Justin, who is so good at what he does.
47:06
Speaker 2: That's him.
47:07
Speaker 1: He makes this sounds good because otherwise he does they're
47:10
Speaker 1: not good, they're bad.
47:11
Speaker 2: So you're welcome.
47:12
Speaker 1: You're welcome. Yeah, thank you to Justin, and you're welcome
47:15
Speaker 1: to everyone else.
47:17
Speaker 2: Luh huh. Yeah.
47:17
Speaker 1: Also, if you would like to support us, you can
47:19
Speaker 1: do that several ways. Leaving us a rating and a
47:21
Speaker 1: review is very helpful. It helps push us out into
47:23
Speaker 1: algorithms and more people find us. You can make sure
47:25
Speaker 1: you like then and hit those five stars and then
47:28
Speaker 1: subscribe to make sure you don't miss any episodes. And
47:30
Speaker 1: if you would like to support us financially, that helps
47:32
Speaker 1: tremendously because, believe it or not, making a podcast is
47:35
Speaker 1: not free, and even though we don't pay ourselves to
47:39
Speaker 1: do this, we are volunteers. We want to bring it
47:41
Speaker 1: to you for free and some people who appreciate that
47:43
Speaker 1: process have joined us on Patreon and so as a
47:46
Speaker 1: special thank you, we get them early episodes bonus content
47:49
Speaker 1: ad free episodes, and at the end of our full
47:52
Speaker 1: length discussions, we say a giant thank you to each
47:54
Speaker 1: and every one of them individually. So thank you so
47:56
Speaker 1: much to Mike, m to Megan, to Mike t, Justin,
48:00
Speaker 1: Kim Brad, Stephanie, Brian, Ashley, Kiara, and to Charlie. Thank
48:04
Speaker 1: you all so much for supporting us, for all the
48:07
Speaker 1: time you've been supporting us, and for being so wonderful.
48:10
Speaker 3: Forever and always, ever and always.
48:13
Speaker 1: Is there anything that I'm missing before we transition to
48:15
Speaker 1: our recommendations, No, let's do it.
48:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, recommendations.
48:27
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm recommending a TV show that wrapped up. This
48:32
Speaker 1: is kind of a scary TV show. It's called Widow's Bay.
48:35
Speaker 1: This is in sort of the supernatural horror genre. It
48:39
Speaker 1: takes place on an island and a bunch of weird, strange,
48:43
Speaker 1: creepy things are happening on this island. It's also actually
48:46
Speaker 1: pretty funny. I wouldn't put it in the horror comedy. Actually,
48:50
Speaker 1: the writing really reminds me of something you might see
48:53
Speaker 1: from Stephen King Sure in the way that the horror
48:55
Speaker 1: of the horror is developed.
48:56
Speaker 3: It's not super gory.
48:58
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of like macabre's sort of imagery
49:02
Speaker 1: here and there, but it's a lot of like suspense
49:04
Speaker 1: building and then creepy, sort of monstrous people. More than anything,
49:09
Speaker 1: it's like there's an evil presence on the island and
49:12
Speaker 1: people aren't really sure what's happening or why accept some
49:15
Speaker 1: people who sort of have an understanding and they're trying
49:17
Speaker 1: to figure out what to do to combat this, and
49:19
Speaker 1: in the meantime they run into like ghosts and monsters
49:21
Speaker 1: and things. Anyway, this is an Apple TV original show.
49:25
Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun with that. I'm looking
49:26
Speaker 1: forward to the next season. The first season just wrapped,
49:29
Speaker 1: and so I do recommend checking it out if you're
49:31
Speaker 1: into that kind of thing, that sort of horrory type thing.
49:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I love when it's done well
49:38
Speaker 2: and it's like kind of a unique take on the genre.
49:41
Speaker 2: That's always fun.
49:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.
49:43
Speaker 2: All Right, So I'm gonna recommend something that even I
49:46
Speaker 2: think maybe by the time you hear this episode, it's
49:48
Speaker 2: not out yet, but it will be out in August.
49:50
Speaker 2: But I'm really excited about it. I'm really proud about it.
49:52
Speaker 2: I have recorded a new album ooh my band that
49:56
Speaker 2: I am doing. My solo projects called god Man. I
49:59
Speaker 2: recorded a new EP. It's called loves You. It's six songs,
50:02
Speaker 2: and I think it's really interesting and cool and fun.
50:05
Speaker 2: So if you like stuff that is really loud, like
50:09
Speaker 2: Coalesce Converge, It's got some softer parts, some quieter parts,
50:13
Speaker 2: and you know, I think the theme of this EP,
50:16
Speaker 2: which I haven't really talked about a lot, is kind
50:18
Speaker 2: of exploring grief. I've had a lot of stuff happen
50:19
Speaker 2: in my life in the last couple of months, so
50:21
Speaker 2: it's kind of like almost like a dissertation on thief
50:23
Speaker 2: are on grief, I should say, not thief, thief, the thief,
50:27
Speaker 2: which is, you know what grief does to your joy Sometimes.
50:31
Speaker 2: I'm really proud of it. I'm really excited about it.
50:32
Speaker 2: It's six songs, really cool artwork from an artist in
50:36
Speaker 2: Orlando who goes by fatal Entries on Instagram. Her name
50:39
Speaker 2: is Liz and she is rad So yeah, I'm super
50:43
Speaker 2: excited to get it out and then stoke for folks here.
50:45
Speaker 2: And I'm really proud that I got it done. I
50:46
Speaker 2: blew up my vocals yesterday trying to record everything.
50:49
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
50:50
Speaker 1: Man, Well, congratulations, yeah, thanks making art is the best.
50:53
Speaker 1: I'm happy that you keep finding time to do that thing.
50:55
Speaker 1: And I've been really bad about making space for actually
50:58
Speaker 1: checking out all stuff you make, because you make and
51:00
Speaker 1: I need to do that.
51:01
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'll send it. I'll send you some stuff.
51:03
Speaker 2: He'll be good times.
51:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, cool. All right, Well that's what we have
51:06
Speaker 1: to say about all of that. Thank you all for listening.
51:08
Speaker 1: I think we're ready to wrap this one up. So
51:10
Speaker 1: this is.
51:10
Speaker 3: Abraham and this is Shane. Why we Do what we
51:13
Speaker 3: Do is out see ya. You've been listening to Why
51:17
Speaker 3: We Do what We Do.
51:18
Speaker 2: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
51:21
Speaker 2: going to WWDWWD podcast dot com. Thanks for listening, and
51:26
Speaker 2: we hope you have an awesome day