Latest / Beyond the Paycheck / Angela N. Briggs-Paige, Chief People Officer at Acelero Learning
Transcript
- Courtney Cardin (00:01) Welcome to Beyond the Paycheck podcast, Angela Briggs-Paige It's so exciting to have you here. I'm Courtney, co-founder of Aura Finance, and I'm really excited to be speaking with you today. I would love it if you could just quickly introduce yourselves to our listeners. Angela Briggs-Paige (00:17) Thank you so much Courtney. Like you said, my name is Angela Briggs Page. I am the Chief People Officer at Ocelero and I am the founder and CEO of People Power. And I like to think that my world sits at the intersection of heart and strategy, making sure people feel seen, supported and fairly rewarded while helping organizations actually work better. Courtney Cardin (00:42) I love that. That's such an important mission. It's so wonderful to be joined by you today. I would love to start just by diving in. And I'd love to learn a little bit more about you and your earliest money memory. I'd love to know if that had any impact on on how you see security, freedom or responsibility in this COO role that you are doing so well. Angela Briggs-Paige (01:03) wow, this takes me back. So my earliest memory is my grandmother handing me some change to buy candy from the candy lady. And yes, my neighborhood had a candy lady. She had this little coin purse and she knew down to the penny what she had and what she could spend. There was no swiping. There was no, I'll figure it out later. It was immediate accountability. And as a little black girl growing up with very little, that lesson became the foundation of how I've used stability and independence today. So I think that what struck me even then, though I couldn't name it as a child, was the intentionality behind that. My grandmother wasn't just giving me money for candy. She was teaching me that resources are finite, that you make deliberate choices about what matters and that there's dignity and knowing exactly where you stand and how much you can spend. And I think that that shaped everything for me about security and responsibility. And security wasn't about having access. It was about knowing exactly where you stood and making intentional choices from that place of truth. And when I think about responsibility, it taught me that It meant you didn't spend what you didn't have and you didn't make promises that you couldn't keep. Courtney Cardin (02:30) Hmm. Yeah, I love that. ⁓ Grandmothers really are the best, aren't they? ⁓ We just did a brief workshop, a year-end workshop, and gave people a toolkit for things to remember. And one of the tools in that toolkit was use cash or a debit card for what you're paying for so that you feel the pain of paying now. So what a valuable lesson your grandmother taught you at such an early age. Angela Briggs-Paige (02:37) they really are. Absolutely, absolutely. Courtney Cardin (02:59) Continuing on that thread, I'd love to know a little bit more about your first paycheck. What was your first job and do you remember what you did with that first paycheck? Angela Briggs-Paige (03:08) My first job was at McDonald's when I was 15. And I thought I was rich when that check hit. You couldn't tell me anything. It was $84 and some change. And I marched myself right to the mall and bought a pair of guest jeans. And I'd been eyeing for a month. And my mom looked at me and she said, that's it? That's the whole check? Courtney Cardin (03:20) Mm-hmm. Angela Briggs-Paige (03:34) And I remember laughing, but that moment taught me the emotional side of money, that pull between I earned this and I should save this. And it's still something I see in employees now, people trying to balance joy and responsibility in every single paycheck. Courtney Cardin (03:44) Mm-hmm. Absolutely. you know, ⁓ Morgan Housel, who famously wrote the psychology of money in his recent book, The Art of Spending Money, talks a lot about, you know, what money is and the purpose behind money and how everybody is different and unique and sort of using that as a currency to bring you joy, whether it's a pair of guest jeans or saving for the future. Everybody is different and spending money truly is an art. So also something you learned at an early age. I'd love to know. Among all of these lessons and good decisions, ⁓ what was your most embarrassing purchase? Angela Briggs-Paige (04:28) Okay listen, I'm about to tell on myself. Recently I bought one of those fancy water bottles that claims to improve your hydration experience. It was $75 for a water bottle. I was humbled real quick when it did fit in my car cup holder. But that purchase reminded me that sometimes we chase the aesthetic of things. Courtney Cardin (04:30) Great. Sure. Angela Briggs-Paige (04:50) more than the practice of it. So I've used it maybe twice and then it became a very expensive dust collector. ⁓ But here's the thing, and I knew better, right? I teach people about impulse purchases and intentional spending and here I was falling for the marketing and that late night scrolling. Courtney Cardin (04:54) Mm-hmm. Sure. ⁓ the late night scrolling is your brain late at night is a different brain. I have a, have an almost one year old and I can tell you the decisions that I make between two and four AM are not the decisions I would make in the normal daylight. Every time there's, there's a lot of brain chemistry to that one. So I wouldn't, I don't think you should hold yourself too accountable for that one. You know, the decisions we make late at night are things that we need to be aware of. Those are, those are our. Angela Briggs-Paige (05:25) Right? It gets me every time. Courtney Cardin (05:41) our own challenges. So, absolutely, I'm here to validate you. How does your money story influence how you think about pay and benefit for your employees today? Angela Briggs-Paige (05:42) Thank you, thank you. I think about how money stress follows people to work, right? We can't separate home and work. And I really want our compensation philosophy to say, we see you, we respect your reality. Whether it's ensuring pay equity, flexible pay access, or real financial education, I want people to feel that their job gives them breathing room, not just a paycheck. So when I think about our compensation and benefits strategy, it starts with this question, what do our people need to live with dignity and security so they can show up and do this transformational work? Courtney Cardin (06:32) Absolutely. We have a very similar philosophy. you my grandmother, who also really, really inspired me, helped write the law called the Equal Credit Opportunity Act, which only gave women and people of color the right to have credit in their own name just 50 years ago. so much of crazy. It's like one generation. So, so much of what we're doing here today is really about flexing those money talk muscles and making it easier to have these conversations. Angela Briggs-Paige (06:49) Isn't that crazy? Courtney Cardin (07:02) because we have never been invited to these conversations. And it's important for us to show up and participate so that we can do those other things and take those next steps, as you said. So it's great to hear that you're pioneering that in your role in your organization. It's really important. So I'd love to know, where do compensation and benefits, where do you see them often break down for your employees today? Is it around pay equity, transparency, total rewards, or something else? Angela Briggs-Paige (07:18) Yeah. That's such a good question because where things break down most today isn't just in pay equity, although that's really important, but I also think it's in pay clarity. Employees want to understand how decisions are made, not just do I make enough, but is this fair and can I grow here? Too often, pay structures are a mystery. And when people don't know the why behind their pay, they fill in the blanks. And they fill in the blanks with something that may not be true, and that's filled with mistrust. Courtney Cardin (07:41) Mm. Mm-hmm. I think you touched on something that I think is really important. want to double click on the why that they're here, right? So people view compensation as all types of things, the actual monetary value of their time, but also their worth, and also what opportunity do they have to grow? A lot of people, particularly in the millennial and Gen X generation, show up to work with also the intent of finding purpose in what they do. so... when compensation becomes the main driver of helping and sharing that purpose, you really want to make sure that your employees feel like they're contributing, like they're part of something. And that's why, you know, always the best places to work are the ones where people say, you know, we're a family here and people really feel valued and we have pay transparency. So I think you're absolutely right. It's pay equity goes beyond just pay equity. goes behind the underlying reason. Angela Briggs-Paige (08:54) Absolutely. Courtney Cardin (08:55) What have you or leaders you admire changed in pay or benefits to move from this sort of let's attract the best talent to let's transform the lives of people we work Angela Briggs-Paige (09:08) We've worked really hard at Ocelero to really make that shift from attracting talent to transforming lives. I think one example that I'd like to share is that we redesigned our benefits to focus on total wellbeing, Mental, financial, social, and career wellness, not just medical. And I know that one thing that we changed at Ocelero that sounds small, but it really did transform lives. Courtney Cardin (09:22) Mm. Angela Briggs-Paige (09:35) is we eliminated waiting periods for benefits eligibility. Think about what a 90 day waiting period for health insurance actually means. It means that the moment you start a job, when you and your family are the most vulnerable because you've likely left other coverage or you're paying an arm and a leg for Cobra, you're not covered. It means people are literally making impossible choices. Do I take my child to the doctor? or our wait and hope it's nothing serious. Do I fill this prescription or do I pay my electric bill? So we said, no, that's not who we are. And we changed that. Did it cost us more? Yes. Did it require us to have hard conversations with our brokers and our finance team? Absolutely. But you know what? It made us talk about it realize that we are human and we see you as a whole human from the moment you walk through the door. not just after you've proven yourself worthy for 90 days. That's not culture. Courtney Cardin (10:39) I think that's such a powerful point. think today ⁓ with AI and the advancement of technology, really holding yourself out there as Ocelero does is saying, you are human and so are we, and we're making these changes on your behalf is a really powerful statement to make. So I commend you all for doing that, having the hard conversation, ⁓ but for a really positive result is really heartening. Maybe it's eliminating waiting periods, but are there other compensation or benefits trends that you think will shape the employee experience over the next 12 to 24 months? Angela Briggs-Paige (11:16) I am a huge proponent of skills-based pay. And I think that it is disrupting everything and it couldn't happen fast enough. And here's why. The traditional model of compensation that's built on tenure, degrees, and titles is dying, right? It's dying because it never actually measured the right thing. And I like to say, because I worked at a great organization that was about stars. ⁓ individual skill through alternative routes. But having a degree doesn't tell me you can do the work. Having 10 years of experience doesn't tell me you can do the work in our context with our mission for our families. So skill-based pay asks fundamentally different questions. What can you do? And what value does that create? Right? And I think that's a revolutionary because it opened doors for people who've been systematically locked out of opportunity. You know, we say all the time, Low wage doesn't mean low skill. That single mom who couldn't finish college because life happened, but has incredible program management skills from running her household and coordinating her kids care? Absolutely, right? Skill-based pay sees her. And that's why I'm so excited about Courtney Cardin (12:23) Mm-hmm. That's incredible. What would you, just a follow up on that question for some of the job seekers or people in transition, know, there are a lot of people, it's an uncertain market out there and a lot of people are forcing the hard decision to sort of start over at a time in their lives they didn't necessarily expect to. What advice would you have for them around sort of amplifying their experience or their skills that they learned before to best put their best foot forward? Angela Briggs-Paige (12:56) That's such a good question. think that let's use AI for this, right? Because so many times people can't articulate the skills that they've applied in their roles, they know the job titles. So I think a good way to use AI and leverage it for that is put that job description in AI and ask it to feed out what skills you practice in there. And you have to lead with the skills. You have to talk about the skills. And when you're applying for a role, know how those skills can apply to the job that you're applying for. Courtney Cardin (13:28) That's really good advice. I actually, one of my favorite AI hacks is to say, I learned this from a coach of mine, ⁓ ask me clarifying questions. So that way the AI sort of gets to the heart of what you're trying to do. So you get it to ask you questions and makes you think in a different way. I always think that's such an interesting way to work with it. Angela Briggs-Paige (13:46) Yes, absolutely. Courtney Cardin (13:49) What other mindset shifts, guardrails, or governance do you think your colleagues, other people leaders need to keep pay both fair and empowering in their organizations? Angela Briggs-Paige (14:01) mind shift, mind set shift leaders need more than anything else is moving from scarcity to abundance when it comes to people. So many compensation decisions are driven by fear. Fear that if we pay people more, we won't have enough. Fear if we're transparent, people will be angry. Fear if we invest in people, they'll leave. And that fear creates poverty mindsets. Courtney Cardin (14:16) Mm-hmm. Angela Briggs-Paige (14:29) where we're constantly trying to do more with less, pay less than we should, extract maximum value while giving minimum investment. But here's the truth that scarcity thinking misses. When you invest generously in people, you get exponential returns, right? Not just in productivity, but you get that too, but in creativity and commitment and loyalty and culture, in the reputation that attracts other remarkable people. Courtney Cardin (14:37) Mm-hmm. Angela Briggs-Paige (14:58) So stop treating benefits as rewards and stop treating them as foundations. Benefits aren't something people earn after they prove themselves, Benefits are what enable people to show up and do the work in the first place. Healthcare, childcare support, mental health resources, financial wellness tools, these are perks. These are the basics of treating people with difficulty, with dignity. So move away from that scarcity mindset. Courtney Cardin (15:06) Great. That's such great advice. And to your point, that's why they're called benefits, right? You show up, what is the benefit of working here? Well, we invest in your mental health and your financial health and your wellbeing as a member of this company. So that's why it's a benefit. I've never thought of it that way. It's really interesting. right, moving on, what tools, data or automations, as you said, you know, there's a great spot for AI to help people sort of tell their stories better. What... Angela Briggs-Paige (15:39) Yes. Courtney Cardin (15:52) are you doing to help measure and improve financial wellness and pay equity at your organization with your team? Angela Briggs-Paige (16:00) Let me tell you about what's actually helping us at AsoLero. We talked about total wellbeing and one of those pillars of total wellbeing for us at AsoLero is financial wellbeing. So we've incorporated financial wellness programming that goes beyond here's how to budget. We are partnering with organization that provides ⁓ emergency assistance, helps with credit repairs, support with navigating public benefits, coaching. Courtney Cardin (16:12) Mm-hmm. Angela Briggs-Paige (16:27) building on savings. That's the real stuff people need, not just theoretical financial literacy. And we've also implemented earned wage access and the ability for people to access the earned wages before payday without creditory fees. We know about those payday loans and how there's so many fees attached to that. And this has really been a game changer for our frontline employees. Courtney Cardin (16:37) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Angela Briggs-Paige (16:53) because they're able to get this money that they've earned without having to turn to payday loans or work on or having to pay overdraft fees. Because here's the question that we kept asking ourselves, why should someone have to wait two weeks for money they've already earned? That's not helping them, that's helping our cash flow at their expense. So we changed it and that has really helped our employees. And we've had about 70%. of our employees, frontline employees, take advantage of that. Courtney Cardin (17:25) That's amazing. it's so right. mean, how do we, at Aura, we're also very much about, you know, how do we leverage the technology that is available today to improve people's lives and financial well-being? access to wages you've already earned is absolutely key. And then access to conversations, access to money coaching, access to sort of diving in and understanding your invisible money scripts that are determining how you're thinking about money or determining that abundance versus scarcity mindset, as you said, is Angela Briggs-Paige (17:37) Absolutely. Courtney Cardin (17:54) is crucial to really being able to understand how you're using the things you have, the decisions you're making, and how to make decisions that align with your values longer term. So Angela Briggs-Page, it has been such a delight to talk to you. I'm wondering, do you have any sort of last minute or final thoughts or feedback for your colleagues, for some of the workers? What would you advise people on how to invest in their own wellbeing? at school, at work, in their companies. Angela Briggs-Paige (18:26) Yeah, I think that when we think about our employees and our organization, I think that money may start the conversation, but meaning keeps people in your organization. It keeps them engaged. And so how are you enabling them to make better money decisions? So I think we have to keep that in mind as we think about being people first cultures and really leading with humanity. Courtney Cardin (18:52) I love that. In the age of AI, how important it is to lead with humanity and metrics, as you said, you're using data to really understand how investing in financial wellbeing is providing exponential benefits to you. So I commend you for all that you're doing. It was such a pleasure to talk to you today. I really appreciate your time. Angela Briggs-Paige (19:13) Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Courtney Cardin (19:15) Thank you, thank you. All right.