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SMNTY Classics: SMNTY Sets Some Boundaries · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: H Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm all this stuff I Never told you prediction by
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Heart You, and for today we are bringing back a
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: classic on boundaries. I think it continues to be a
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: relevant conversation, especially in our increasingly polarized world, but also
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: for me personally and by extension you personally. I have
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: a lot of very fanish things that are happening coming up,
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: and it can be difficult for me to be like
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: you know what, I can't have like everybody I know
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: in my.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Life coming to this event.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: So it's a time where I'm thinking about boundaries once
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: again and how best to pursue them. So we hope
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: you enjoy this classic episode.
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to Stefan Never told you the production of iHeartRadio.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Okay, Annie, for today's episode, I have a pretty big
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: generic question, but you know, we'll see how well you do. So,
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: on average, how often do you think you've actually said
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: no or declined a request in your adult life? On average?
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: On average?
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: I think it's shifted recently because of the pandemic, but
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: before that often, yeah, I've been at all and even
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: now like during the pandemic. I'm still pretty bad, but
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: I have gotten better because I have a pretty good reason.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: I had a friend, a good friend of ours, once
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: told me, like, you don't have to even respond because
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: a non response equals no, And I was like, but
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: that's so rude.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: So I can't even do that. I have to say
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: yes or no.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: Oh, that's my go to is just to not respond.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Not now I know, like I'm not there.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know, I don't know what's happening.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: Oh no, And then.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: Like the next day you're like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: so sorry.
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: I just kidding. If I if I know you well know,
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: and I can say no to you, like if you
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: can handle a note, then I say no. But if
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: you people, I've had people who like pressure me and
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: talk you into it and won't take that. So I
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: just don't respond sometimes.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if I say no, and then you're you trying
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: to convince me. Now during the pandemic, I will say,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: then I just won't respond anymore.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Right, But before then I.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Could be convinced. I could be pretty easily convinced.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and you know what, You're not the only
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: one and we're going to talk a little bit about
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: all of that, including the fact that we do need
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: to perspect other people's knows which is sometimes hard for me.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: I'm one of those people, like I really feel like
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I can't read sometimes. Whether you're saying no just because
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: you feel like you can't do it versus you actually
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: don't want to do it like that, those are the
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: trade differences. But you know, with all the everyday stress,
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: there's been a lot thrown at us recently, and it
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: seems like so much, so much in the past few years,
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: and for some of us we have really grown into
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: setting some boundaries again, like I just may not respond
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: to you, and you have done really well because you've
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: decided that you actually like your alone time, maybe a
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: little too much sometimes, But for others it's actually gotten worse,
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: especially when it comes to people trying to change the
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: state of the world. There's been so much that's happening,
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: and there's been so much, honestly just scary moments where
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: we're like everything's about to be the worst. So to
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: that end, we feel like we have to do even
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: more and definitely can't slow down, but there's no denying
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: setting of boundaries is at an actual talent, and there's
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: some who are really good at it and then some
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: who are not, yeah, and who are still learning, right,
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: And of course we had to take a minute and
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: research if there was a difference based on gender. And again,
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: so just to note, a lot of the studies, though
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: some more recent, are typically done from a cis heteroperspective,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: so it's not as intersectional when it comes to like
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: the queer community or any of that. So again, we
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: would like, we would like that to be not so
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: much the case, but unfortunately we can't always get that.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: But again, this is information that is good to know
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: on a personal level, and we are going to hit
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: that intersectional we are going to talk about when it
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: comes to the bipop community as well. But just for
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: the perspective, this is on a very personal level, so
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: very individualistic, I guess.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I know we're going to discuss this later,
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: but I feel like this is one of those topics
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: that often gets wrapped up in sort of the like catchy,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: very heteronormative magazine titles that are like here's how you
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: set boundaries with your men, Yes, And there's.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: So many of those, like we had to weed through
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: all of the Cosmo articles, which is there's nothing wrong
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: with that if they are evidence based, you do you,
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: but you know to the point that like this is
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: not what we're looking at necessarily to better set boundaries
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: to catch a man.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Right, right, Yeah, A lot to say about that, but
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: we better get into this verse, all right, and let's
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: get started with the definition. According to Miriam Webster, boundaries
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: are defined as something that indicates or fixes a limit
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: or extent. But a better definition of what we're talking
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: about is boundaries as quote an expression of inner authority.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: And that's according to Bethanywebster dot com. And it continues
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: saying boundaries are a function of how much you are
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: in tune with yourself, how much you value yourself, and
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: where and with whom you choose to invest your energy.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Boundaries are often a battle people choose to not take
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: on easier to please people rather than dealing with the
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: conflict of saying no. Or it could be what author
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: doctor Kristen Lee of Psychology Today writes, quote, it signifies
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: a deeper value set. If you're the type that always
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: wants to be there for people you care about, it's
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: because you value relationships. If you're the one at work.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: Who says yes to every project, it reflects how much
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: you value learning. But when we only say yes, we
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: might be missing chances to invest your time and energy
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: in ways that help us take our values and.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Goals to new levels.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: And it can affect women and those in marginalized communities differently.
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: Right, And we're going to talk a little bit about
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: that in a minute. But first, here's some reasons why
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: people may not say two boundaries. And it includes perfectionism
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: kind of what we're talking about, not wanting to let
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: anyone down, or wanting to be seen as the person
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: who can do everything in anything. And yes, I don't
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: want people to see me being weak. So therefore I'm like, yeah,
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: of course I know how to do that. What what
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: does that mean?
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: You know?
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: Just then there's fomo, or the fear of missing out.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: Don't want to be left out or if you miss
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: something or you get excluded the next time around, which
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: was a big fear As an introvert. I'm like, oh, no,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: I don't want to go out, but they're gonna not
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: invite me anymore. That's even worse. But on top of yes,
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: there I have friends who absolutely will not say no
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: because they're afraid they're gonna miss out on something significant,
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: and then they're gonna miss out on the conversations later
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: to come is that you do you do? You have fomo?
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: I do have fomo. I think we've talked about this before.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: I have both fomo. But also like I'm queen at
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: avoidance and going out or doing something is the best
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: way for me, not in a good way, not in
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: a healthy way, but the best way for me to
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: continue my unhealthy habit.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: Of avoiding whatever it is.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Right, So they kind of both come together in a
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  Speaker 2: real unnatural way.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: It's not good help.
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: Yes, I know a lot of people who do that
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  Speaker 3: because being alone means you have to think about things. Yeah,
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: maybe it's based on your personality, you know what I'm
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: talking about. Are you an IFJ, well, maybe you have
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: a hard time in settling limits, or if you're an
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: I NFP, you are the example we need to look
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: toward as someone who does who is good at setting
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: boundaries and if they try to force you into something,
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: you're like, nah, I'm good, I'm good. So there's this
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: whole article if you want to go look at it.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: It's at Personality growth dot Com titled how each personality
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: type handles boundaries, and yeah, if you want to know,
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: and if you know your Myers Brigs personality type, this
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: may tell you what kind of boundaries or lack of
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  Speaker 3: boundaries you have, just so you know, or perhaps not
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: being able to differentiate between the emotion of saying no
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  Speaker 3: because you feel like you're rejecting someone or turning someone
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: down or they're rejecting you, and the rationality of knowing
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: your limits. So aka, you're the people pleaser, the same
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: kind of perspective of being the perfectionist, but you are
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: scared to tell them no because that means they feel
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: rejected and you, of course have to spare their feelings
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: and you can't say no, and say no means it
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: hurts their feelings, which is not typically true, although sometimes
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: people do feel that way because I feel like that
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: a lot, because I have a fear of rejection. That's
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: a whole different conversation. Of course, there could be more
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: than just these reasons, and there are, but we just
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: wanted to give kind of a few examples of why
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: this could be a problem. But let's talk about the
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: deeper meanings.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, according to one SETI, when it comes to setting boundaries. Oftentimes,
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: those who are perceived as less powerful have a harder
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: time in setting them. In a twenty nineteen article in
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: The Swaddle titled how Society makes it difficult for women
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: at minorities to set emotional boundaries, Sadaf Venda talks about
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: the difficulties of women in marginalized communities saying no. They
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: write setting boundaries as to where the self ends and
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: where other people begin. Navigating relationships with this bounce in
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: mind and saying no when necessary is a difficult task,
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: especially for women and people from marginalized communities. They continue
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: on about the difference due to culture, gender, and societal
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: expectations and how these differences can lead to different levels
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: of philosophy when it comes to individualism and collectivism and
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: how that can impact a person's boundaries. For example, when
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: it comes to family, different cultures would dictate absolute loyalty
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: to the detriment of an individual and would have a
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: harder time in setting limits because of that.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Right and related to that is a concept known as
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: quote differentiation of self, which was originated by family therapist
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: Murray Bowen. It is described as a quote. A level
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: of the differentiation of self refers to the degree to
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: which a person can think and act for self while
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: in contact with emotionally charged issues. It also refers to
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: the degree which a person can discern between thoughts and feelings,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: kind of like how we were talking about the people pleaser.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: At higher levels of differentiation, people maintain separate solid cells
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: under considerable stress and anxiety, they manage their own reactivity
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: and choose thoughtful actions. At lower levels of differentiation, people
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: depend on others to function and they develop significant symptoms
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: under stress. They act often destructfully based on anxious reactions
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: to the environment. Their intellectual reasoning uses with emotionality. Even
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: highly intelligent people can be poorly differentiated. So what they
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: are talking about is this level of having the emotions
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: being disconnected to the reality. And we know that women
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: kind of have been targeted that way, being told you
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: are the nurture, the caregiver, so you should care and
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: you should feel these ways. And we also know that
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: men are told don't that is not mainly feeling feelings
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: is not good. So it kind of has this abuse
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: of power and this differentiation can really impact how you
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: set those boundaries. And for women, well, again it's complicated.
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: Doctor Tamika let explains in one article in the Zoe
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: Report dot com quote, in my opinion, when women say
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: quote I need help or I need a break, we
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: are viewed as a weak or not as competent as
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: our male counterparts, despite not taking care of ourselves, which
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: can result in mental health issues such as anxiety or depression.
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: Women are also seen as liabilities. And again we know
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: the implications of being seen as vulnerable. This is a
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: feminine quality, and this is kind of how it's attributed
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: to weaknesses, especially when it comes to positions of authority. Again,
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: this whole level of that nurture nature, the gendered ideas
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: of emotions, and why that is so harmful at youth. Again,
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: this impacts how we set boundaries and whether or not
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: we can set those boundaries.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: And I think the socialization aspect is very very important.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: And I know for me, like because of some of
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: the trauma in my past, I don't even if I
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: want to say no, I don't say it at first,
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: right because it's the safety. It feels like, oh, my city,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: he's going to get mad, especially as a man involved,
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: he's going to get to talk about Yeah, And so
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: for me like this kind of almost separation of emotions.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: It's like I feel the emotion and then.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: I shut it down and just say like O hey, yeah,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: like bubbly, bubbly, yes.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Right, and then later I'm like, oh god no.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: And honestly, we're going to talk later on about how
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: to set boundaries. But so many of these articles that
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: are referring to women trying to set boundaries teach them
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: how to do it kindly because it is dangers. But
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: again we'll come back to that.
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, all right.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Therapist Emily Party weighs in on the same article, saying
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: boundary setting phrases like those mentioned above can also sometimes
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: be interpreted as anti feminist. In a society where women
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: have fought so hard to gain equality and opportunity, it
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: could be seen as a step in the wrong direction
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: when a woman acknowledges healthy boundaries and limitations. It's ironic, truly,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: when the most feminist thing you can do is know
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: yourself well and stand up for your knees, which feels
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: like a damned if you do and damned if you
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: don't situation. And also, yeah, like we talked about in
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Glennon Doyle's book, that whole idea that women have been
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: taught like selflessness is such a good thing, like that's
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: a value, right, Yeah, setting your boundaries feels like being selfish.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: Right right, and being able to say no is such
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: a power trip. So therefore again not female enough, are
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: feminine enough, and so therefore all these things. But then
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: again you say that it can also look like it's
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: anti feminists not taking on everything to show that you
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: can take on everything, which is ironic in itself.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: Yep. So now we're going to talk about masculinity and
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: boundaries because this whole thing could be translated as a
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: perception of power or supremacy and how it plays in
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: setting boundaries. And yes, boundaries are hard to just set
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: for those who are more likely to be oppressed and marginalized,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: as Vidha says, And I apologize because I think I
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: added a superfluous in my pronunciation earlier, and I hope
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: I'm not butchering it in either case. Anyway, they say,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: those who have more power in society, like men, build
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: a lot of unwritten rules around themselves, and their time
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: is often treated as a privilege. These powerful sections also
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: ensure that the time and effort of others is seen
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: as disposable, and thus this means these oppressed sections end
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: up doing more of the work, having hardly any emotional
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: and personal boundaries. And what happens when privilege is rejected
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: or limited They push back. As the Bethanywebster dot Com
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: article rites, male fragility has played a role and that
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: women quote have been conditioned to view our needs for
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: boundaries with distrust. Having boundaries, saying no and setting one's
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: own limits has long been associated with being difficult, uppity,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: or a bit Women who set boundaries have been characterized
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: as being ugly. Femin Nazis are man hating and have
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: been threatened with violence and death.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: Right and of course there is an actual other side
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: to this. Before we move on, though, we do want
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: to talk about the fact that, yes, this becomes dangerous,
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: and we've talked about this so often that when we
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: put limits in saying no, I'm not interested and we
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: get pushed back on, there is a dangerous precedent. What
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: can we do to make sure that we don't get
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: to that place? And that is oftentimes make up an excuse,
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: try to be kind, all of those things, and try
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: to get out of the situation, because when we do
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: set up boundaries, especially like in the dating world, it
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: becomes a challenge. Yeah, And on the other side, we're
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: gonna talk about the nice guys as in fact, we
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: stumbled upon some articles about how nice guys are asking
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: how to set boundaries with quote flirty women. And when
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: I say flirty, this is in a negative connotation. And
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: y'all we watch these advice videos, so you didn't have
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: to and you shouldn't. And it includes teaching men to
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: put limits in boundaries with quote firmness and through grounding.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: And according to one video, this is the idea of
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: taking from the bottom half of yourself. And I'm assuming
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: he's talking literally because he talks about don't take it
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: from the trust, pick from a bottom es like what,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: maybe he's talking about his feet. I'm gonna go with
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: that and really being planted or fill yourself being planted
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: and not quote overreact because if a nice guy overreacts,
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: women will continue to quote poke Adam, which was the phrase.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: I was really like, what to get a reaction and
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: continually test those boundaries. Now, it may sound like we're
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: being sarcastic. The language of this video and articles, especially
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: when it comes to the pickup artists, who use this
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: keith reinforcing the idea that women are mere property to conquer.
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: Some of the videos we see, I think we're on
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: religious based sites, so talking about being a man and
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: fearlessly conquering your fears, all of these things. It was interesting,
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: and they do talk about why they may be rejected
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: a little bit. And this article that popped up was
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: specifically to the idea of how to deal with women
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: who are degrading towards men or when flirting. I will
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: say again, this article did try to differentiate with the
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: person who was asking the question on whether he was
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: upset about being rejected or the woman was actually being degrading,
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: So at least he questions this. But let's be honest,
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: when it comes to these conversations continue to place a
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: woman at a level of being a prize instead of
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: being a human. So it doesn't really have the connotation
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: that this is a conversation with another person, but about
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: how to kind of control them in this narrative or
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: control the narrative in itself. But there is a whole
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: other point to these types of articles. Misogyny in itself
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: teaches men that setting boundaries, respecting boundaries are a part
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: of a power play. Respecting boundaries is not manly and
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: that women want manly men, of course, and that only
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: men can set these boundaries because once again it's based
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: on privilege and power. When we see it in this context,
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: we know not all men, Okay, we know, but the
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: fact teachings like this are still prevalent. We can't underestimate
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: the level of the need for perceived masculinity, and to
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: do so can be detrimental for all of the marginalized community.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: And this is why continue to talk about it and
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: why we, yeah, are somewhat dismissive of the not all
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: men because it just takes one man. It just takes
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: that one time for us to underestimate what these conversations
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: can push to.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and continuing the conversation of power and privilege
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: and boundaries, there are many examples of why women continue
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: to be unable to set limits and boundaries. One of
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: the biggest examples is the backlash of saying no. As
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: we talked about earlier, just by rejecting someone, a woman
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: maybe putting themselves in danger, and many have learned throughout
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: their lives our self worth is based on the way
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: we can sacrifice ourselves, meaning in order to show our value,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: we have to give up ourselves our happiness for the
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: betterment of others. Another great quote. We learned to unconsciously
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: and automatically oppress ourselves and other women as a means
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: of survival. We had to self fragment, disabling our own
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: connection with ourselves to some degree and prioritizing external approval
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: in a world that favors rich white men over everybody else,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: right and.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Daniel Litl Daeper. When it comes to the bipod community,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: the dangers in past trauma is even greater. Black women
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: have been on the outskirts throughout the centuries when it
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: comes to having their boundaries respected, but have been the
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: ones to fight the hardest to establish it for the
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: sake of the entire community. When the term intersectionality was
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: coined by Kimberly Crenshaw, many pushed back because it meant
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: that those in the hierarchy aka white women, had to
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: admit that their cause was not about equality but more
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: about power for themselves. Not too long ago, black women
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: drew a line in the sand after being continually sidelined
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: or made the token by those who wanted to be
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: considered quote allies.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: In a twenty nineteen year article written in an injusticemac
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: dot org, one writer says, quote that overfamiliarity was acceptable
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: for white women to display toward black women, and we
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: were meant to simply accept the faux familial connection while
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: simultaneously remembering our place. And they continue in the article,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: given the history we have slavery and white women's active,
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: yes active role in subjugating, abusing, and dehumanizing Black women
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: during that time, and after we do not feel comfortable,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: and once we state we don't feel comfortable and they
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: proceed to make it about their emotional distress, it is
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: clear why we feel that way. Even friendships nourished over
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: years have boundaries. Adhering to boundaries shows value and respect
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: for the individual and the relationship. How are we united
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: when our attempts to establish boundaries are disregarded? How can
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: there be respect?
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: Right? And I'm just going to put this out there, true,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: allyship is not us non black and indigenous women and
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: non binary folks stating that we are allies as this
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: is not a title we can give ourselves. Just a
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: reminder just because you call yourself that does not mean
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: that that's what you are. I know you want to be,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: but if you truly are an ally you wouldn't have
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: to say that for yourself. And honestly, that term has
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: begun to fade as many people cannot understand the true
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: respont responsibilities of allyship. But about all of this is
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: accepting the boundaries that have been set for us. So
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: when we talked about earlier, yes, we want to learn
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: how to set boundaries for ourselves. A part of this
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: learning is to respect boundaries as well. From that same article,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: they say if they are fighting for women, that must
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: include all of us, which means combating all aspects of
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: marginalization that women outside of whiteness are subjected to. Because
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: just like your whiteness can often child you from the
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: aspects of sexism, a black woman, a black trans woman
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: will often see the worst because they like the protection
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: of whiteness and they have to contend with anti blackness,
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: misogyn noir and or transphobia. And to add our own
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: trauma to other trauma, proceeds to cross the boundary lines
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: as allies and honestly, as decent humans. This is something
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: that is important that we talk about, especially in a
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: time where everybody is trying to come together for a
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: greater purpose. But the fact of the matter is this
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: intersectional level. Until everyone has equality, then no one has it.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: And the people who have been fighting the longest and
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: the hardest are the ones that we should be listening to,
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: and oftentimes are the ones that are ignored. And just
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: because we have good intentions, those good intentions are not
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: always good.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: And for the bipod community, it has only been more
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: clear in the last few years the importance in setting boundaries.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: The pandemic and quarantine has made it clear that so
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: often boundaries are pushed past the limits to the detriment
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: of marginalized communities. According to another twenty twenty one article, Ethakahinde,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: a licensed therapist, talks about the impact of working from
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: home during the pandemic. With many working from home over
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: the last year, it has become harder to escape toxic
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: workplace culture, which has been particularly hard on black women.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: According to a twenty eighteen Women in the Workplace study,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: forty percent of black women said they had their judgment
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: questioned in their area of expertise while earning all sixty
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: seven cents on the dollar compared to what men earned.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: These factors. In other instances of workplace discrimination can cause
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: a major impact on mental health and create a demand
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: to separate work from other areas of one's life. Unfortunately,
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: quarantine made that much harder, and they continue writing. Coupled
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: with everything that's been going on and more awareness around
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: police brutality and racial and systemic injustice, I think it's
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: become really important for people to navigate what their limits
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: are and how they can help really maintain their identity
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: and engage the world around them.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: Right and another therapist, Rita Walker, was quoted in the
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: same article saying these communities disproportionately carry high levels of
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: burden with less access to education, housing, economic and political opportunities,
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: while shouldering more violence and disparities in health and well being.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: These communities are resilient, but even resilience has its limits.
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: We often get overwhelmed before we know it. When that happens,
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: we feel as if we cannot take any more mentally,
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: because we need our minds to accomplish everything in life.
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Is a good idea to protect them before feeling overwhelmed,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: And even if we think we can handle anything, everyone
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: has a limit. Yeah, and there is a barrier when
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: it comes to Black and Indigenous women being able to
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: set boundaries, many are criticized for taking a break. A
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: couple of examples include Naomi Osaka and Simon Biles, who
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: are both criticized for stepping back due to their mental health.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Many accuse them of betraying their country for not willingly
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: sacrificing their own health for a metal, and many Black
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: women are characterized as being angry or too sensitive when
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: asking simple requests, like using belittling language or appropriating terms
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: like sis, which we're going to kind of talk about
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: in a minute. But doctor let from the Zoe Report
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: that we mentioned earlier, I actually talked of the very
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: situation concerning Oscca and Bials. She says they have both
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: put a spotlight on the idea that health is holistic
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: and includes mind, body, and spirit. They've also exposed that
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: black women have to work harder at demonstrating their worth
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: and abilities, which makes them more susceptible to mental health
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: concerns that are not often addressed due to stigmas surrounding
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: women and the black and brown communities. And yeah, I
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: think we need to kind of have that big conversation
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: about why we want to demonize someone for our self worth. Again,
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: that's the whole different thing. And as we were talking
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: about the term CIS last year, there was a black
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: TikTok creator who requested white women to not call her
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: CIS and she was met with a lot of angry
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: white women who immediately violated that request and went after
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: her for that small, simple request. And though we aren't
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: going to talk about the incident too deeply, it's interesting
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: to look at how quickly allies turned when told they
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: do not have the privilege of saying something. And again,
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: this has a lot to do with the African American
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: vernacular that we have talked about previously, that has been
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: addressed previously by other hosts, and why it's important that
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: we under stand appreciation versus appropriation. When we had a
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: book club with our guests talking about language and the
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: basis and the history of language and a lot of
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: it was stolen from black culture, which Black culture has
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: been villainized for and being told they're angry or inappropriate
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: or unprofessional. But yet we're taking their language. And this
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: is one of those moments like you have not earned
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: the right to call me sis and appropriately so, and
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: yet white women coming out of the woodward going. But
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: but but why can't.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I M yeah, I mean I think that whole respecting
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: of boundaries, like if you want to set your own boundaries,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: you mean to respect other people's boundaries right as well.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: And I think that's so important to remember and even
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: see that with the pronouns and pronouns right now, and
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: it feels very It does feel like very weaponized and
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: privileged of like where you can't tell me no, do
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Right, but like happiness, but you can't deny me of
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: mine of making you miserable, which yeah, and you know
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: this has kind of moved on that TikToker. I believe
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: she erased her content because she was getting so much
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: flack and even being told that she was too angry
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: it was so absurd.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: M m mm hmmm. But yes, as we have said before,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: angers is not a bad thing, and therapists can hinde agrees.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: They write, I think that when people experience a black
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: woman being angry, it is not random. Oftentimes anger is
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: a healthy response to someone violating your boundary or being dismissive,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: because we're all entitled to be heard. And I do
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: think it really impacts black women and how they engage,
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: especially in work. I think in social environments where black
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: women and black female identifying individuals engage with others like them,
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: there's less of this fear of being angry because they're
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: being heard and understood, right.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: And Yeah, that's just such a big open conversation of
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: what we've been seeing recently of like, Okay, how do
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: we do better. Let's do better. That's I feel like
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: since Annie, you and I have come on to the show,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: that's kind of been that perspective, like we want to
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: do better. Let us know when we're doing something that
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: is inappropriate and or going against our own mission. But
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: of course there comes the outrage because you are being
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: taken away from something, and these boundaries that we've had
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: to set for ourselves, even when it comes to the show,
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: like yes, if we've responded to you maybe because yeah,
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for clarifying and let it get
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: us know, versus you feeling offended because we're calling you in.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: That's a whole different conversation and setting that boundary of
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: like we're not going to engage in toxicity for the
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: sake of your entertainment. And that's kind of where we
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: are seeing these the boundary is we all want our
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: boundaries to be met and or respected. That means we
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: also have to respect others, even if it makes you
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: uncomfortable or makes you feel like, oh, you did something wrong,
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: Because there are moments it is again a call in,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: and you need to consider about why that feels like
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: a call in.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah.
• 31:08
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: So we've gone through some of the reasons why boundaries
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: are important and how setting boundaries or respecting boundaries again
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: can be difficult. So let's talk about how to set boundaries.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: And we're not going to go completely into it. We're
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: just going to give you a few things that we
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: have read from different articles and may be helpful.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: One big thing is figuring out what is important to you?
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Is it something that is of value to you? And
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: just kind of I feel like I've talked a lot
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: about mindfulness since the pandemic, but it's kind of that
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: it's like sitting there and thinking, Okay, what, why am
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: I saying yes when maybe I didn't want to say yes?
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: What is important?
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Where do I really want to lay down this boundary?
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: And why is that?
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Is it not a big deal? Okay? Cool? Is
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: it going to set a precedent. Okay. Also, you could
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: start learning some new phrases to say no or no
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: thing or maybe not today type of way, and here
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: are some examples from the Zoe Report and Psychology Today. Annie,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: We're going to practice you ready, Okay, So I'm gonna
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: start so ready, I'm going to say it. I'll get
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: back to you.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: That won't work for me.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to take that on right now.
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you for asking.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: But no, well, I will need help with this.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I need a break.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I've changed my mind.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: I'm not comfortable with that.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: That sounds like a great opportunity and I want to help,
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: but is it okay if I think about it for
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: a while.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: I'd love to, but I know I'm over committed and
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: won't be able to give this the time it deserves.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: So obviously we're very specific, but yeah, there are ways. Again,
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: this is kind of again that whole like being polite,
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: and there's nothing wrong with being polite, but again I
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: am interested to know who was being polite and who
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: was just being blunt.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Right, And I'm also curious.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: This is kind of reminding me of the conversation we
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: had around strategic incompetence when people are like not being
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: honest and genuine when they say things like this, or
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: because it kind of it's again that flip side the corn.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: It's very complicated. But it's also like my mom. I
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: have talked about this before, but it's kind of interesting
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: because there are some things that because of when, when
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: and how she was raised, she's learning after me and
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: this is kind of one. And she struggles really hard
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: with saying no, and I learned from her, but I
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: think I've like kind of surpassed her. And I was
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: telling her sometimes if I know a conversation and I
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: it's going to involve that, and I'm worried that I'm
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: going to give in and I really don't want to,
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I'll like write out a freakin script. I will write
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: something out. I will have bullet points on my hand
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: like it's kind of it sounds silly like reading these things,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: it's like you can't just do that right.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you need it right.
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: I have definitely practiced beforehand of what more do you
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: say in the car as I'm driving having a full
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: long conversation with myself.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Oh meat, all right, So back to some other smother
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: tips that we found taking a look at the big picture.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Is it something you need to do right now? Can
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: you kind of push it down the line, deal with it?
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: Does it help you, does it help anyone? Or is
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: it just something that people are using you for. Be honest,
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: let people know when you need a break, don't ignore
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: when you feel overwhelmed. And I think that's one of
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: the things is we're not honest when with ourselves when
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: we come to that breaking point until it's too late.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: And again that's the same thing of being mindful. Just
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: really listen to that. Oh yeah, I'm hitting that wall.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna need before I lose it, and friends, I'm
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: going to need to take a step back.
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I mean that's a great way to look at it
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: is you don't want to have a meltdown and then
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: hurt somebody. And I think one of the things we
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: haven't really touched on in this episode but is sort
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: of on the outskirts. I think a lot of acid
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: to do with self esteem, at least when it comes
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: to women. So for me, I don't have the A
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: lot of times I don't have the self esteem.
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: I'm not worth saying no.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: They want to do it, and they I want to
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: make them happy because they're better than me. So kind
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: of like telling yourself, now, if you want to stay
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: in read that fan fiction, then do it.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: Then do it. I say.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Also find where you need to set boundaries. Is it
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: in your work life, your love life, Many aspects of
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: your life could.
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: Be Yeah, and if you can get connected, whether it's
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: through therapy or a support group. And there's a lot
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: of bad friends out there, but there's a lot of
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: great friends out there too, and hopefully you are able
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: to connect with those people who will also tell you, hey,
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: you're you sure you want to do all these things.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: It's just kind of running yourself tooth and you might
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: not want to do this. Those are the friends you need.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: And sometimes it's nice to have someone as a sounding
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: board of like is this too much or is this
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: not enough? Type of conversation.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And again remember we need to learn to
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: respect people's boundaries, listen when they are letting you in.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: If you want to be an advocate, make sure you
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: are listening and not putting words into other people's mouths
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: and adding more work for others. Google is an amazing
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: tool for learning and there are so many great resources
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: out there for that. Sometimes it does feel really funny
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: again kind of looking up these sort of basic keep
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: and truths, but it makes sense, Like you know, people
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: are complicated.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: All right, And honestly, when it comes to when we
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: talk about social justice work and we were talking about
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: wanting to be good people and good advocates, there is
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: work out there. We have read several books and if
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: you want to go through our book club list, there
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: are amazing books out there, resources that already exist, yep,
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: where you don't have to tax other people to do
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: the same work when you can do it yourself.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely, Yeah, all of this, all of this
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: can be healthy if you're doing it in a productive manner.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: And by the way, there are toxic boundary settings that
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: happen as well. Again refer back to boundaries and bipoc
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: community and toxic masculinity and yes, strategic and competence. Perhaps yes,
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: and boundaries can help you avoid burnout and have a
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: better sense of identity and yeah, even build better self esteem.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: Right, and boundaries are different for different people. From Better
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: a Humans Dot pub article titled how to Set Healthy
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: Boundaries A Compassionate Guide for Women, writer Julia Horvath writes, quote,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: boundaries exist on a skill for each person, and we
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: all have to find our own middle ground. And I
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: think that's a good conversation to have. Not everyone has
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: the same level or limits and it looks differently for them.
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: And continue to ask questions for yourself, learn about your
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: own limits and how to best set them, but also
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: understand that, yeah, community is a good thing. There is
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: a healthy boundary, there's a healthy middle ground that we
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: need to find when seeking help. Again, don't use your
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: friends necessarily to the point that you're pushing them away.
• 38:30
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: You know, when I would mention that I was a
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: social worker, I got a lot of interesting reactions and
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: I would have to set boundaries to be like, maybe
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: you should talk to your therapists about that. And not
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: that I didn't have many friends who did that, but
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: I had strangers roommates that I wasn't closer that would
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: do things like does this sound normal? Does this sound like? Okay?
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: I don't get me wrong, I love analyzing, but being
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: constantly on just taxing and yeah, that's that same level
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: as understanding middle ground for yourself. I know, sometimes it's
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: really hard because you want to be a helpful person
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: and you feel like you owe that to someone, but
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: you know, yeah, there's a certain point that you need
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: to have a moment for yourself.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is, like many of our conversations, is very
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: nuanced because it's also like who are you actually trying
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: to help?
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: Are you like me?
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: Are you trying to avoid something and you're pouring that
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: into helping someone who doesn't want your help?
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: You know, just good questions.
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, And I know in a lot of past episodes
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: we didn't talk about it too much in this, but
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: a lot of you have written in about setting boundaries
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: with family, so I know that is a a big
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: piece of this too. And yeah, taking that time to
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: learn your boundaries and how to set them in a
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: healthy way is so important.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: And if you have any tips you'd like to share.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Again, not everything works the same for everybody'd be different,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: but if you have anything you'd like to share, any
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: resources you'd like to share, you know, we love the
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: You can email us at Stephanie and Momsteph at iHeartMedia
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at Stuff Whenever Told You.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina, Thank you,
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: and thanks to you for listening stefan Ertel's protection of iHeartRadio.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: For more podcast on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart Radio app,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: Apple podcast or where you listen to your favorite shows,