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The Benefits of (functional) chocolate · Mental Health Matters

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Mental Health Matters with me, Dr.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Audrey Tang.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm me Joseph Crozier.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is the show where we talk to experts and practitioners in their field all about the latest wellness trends and interventions, but we don't have quick fixes, we don't have hot takes, we have clear, thought-through academic learning.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we are here for educational purposes, we do not substitute professional intervention.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Today, however, we've got a really interesting guest.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: We are talking about functional foods.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, functional foods are foods where you have something extra that's good for your body or your brain, and it helps us, and it's it's like the electrolytes that are in drinks and energy drinks.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we're speaking to Carol Armitage.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, she's the founder of AT Noir Ultra, and this is a functional hot chocolate.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Now, whenever I get hot chocolate or chocolate, my assumption goes straight away to your classic brands that are out there.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sort of thinking, well, it might make me feel warm and comfortable.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily think functional straight away.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: What about you, Jude?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, same.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'm also aware, I'm pretty sure that when I was younger the the chocolate content was higher.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: And now it's, you know, it's barely you can't really taste anything other than sweets.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: That's all it tastes like.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Recently, um, there was some kind of law passed, I seem to remember, or it was it was in the papers, that um certain chocolate biscuits are no longer allowed to call themselves chocolate, they have to call themselves chocolate flavoured biscuits.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right, okay, yeah, if that makes sense.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's so low in terms of the chocolate.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'm really interested in this discussion because every so often you hear chocolate's good for you, but then I sit there and think, I'm sure, as I eat my next chocolate bar, you know, I'm sure it's not.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I don't really understand how it can be good for you, but that's why I'm really looking forward to this.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is why we have Carol Armitage, she's the founder of uh 80 Noir Ultra.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: She's gonna be here to change our opinion on what chocolate is and why it is so good for us.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Let's bring her on.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Carol, welcome to Mental Health Matters.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: Happy to be here.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's great to chat with you because this is such an interesting product that you have created.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, what inspired you to create AT New Noir Ultra and to also focus on cacao as a wellness product?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: So, hot chocolate has always been part of my childhood, um, rather whole my life since childhood, is what I meant to say.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, basically, it was about eight years old, and I was advised by the hospital that I was in at the time that I had low blood pressure and low glucose levels, and they gave me an option of hot chocolate, um, sugar cubes, Lucas Aid, Kendall Mint Cake to choose.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: This is from a Yorkshire place, so obviously Kendall Mint Cake was in there.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and basically I chose the hot chocolate.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I've always been really disappointed in the way that the chocolate tasted.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: It was very bitter, too sweet, it was full of um additives and preservatives, etc.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: But you just never really got the nutrition from it.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: And as I've got older and become more involved in sport, and I also had a demanding career in banking as well, I became increasingly interested in the connection between nutrition, recovery, stress, well-being, and chocolate because I've used it throughout the whole as an anchor almost.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: And uh yeah, so so it basically fascinated me because I very quickly turned into using dark chocolate as a way forward rather than the actual powder that we got given years ago.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um and you know, I don't want to say the name, but you know We're all smiling, we all know.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: We all know the brands.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that's basically what's put people know as hot chocolate.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so I I sort of changed into trying out different types of hot dark chocolate and sort of just using bars of dark chocolate, putting it into milk, mixing it up and seeing what would happen and and trying to understand the sort of the qualities that would come from it.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it's obviously very different nutritionally from um that you know, the pro the profile of to this hot chocolate to the traditional hot chocolates that we know about.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so the chocolate that I use obviously contains a lot more compounds such as theobromine and antioxidants.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I wanted to create a product that celebrated the real chocolate.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I also wanted, and it sounds a bit silly, but I wanted to show people that actually you could have chocolate on a daily basis, it become part of your wellness ritual without it sacrificing any any other part of you from a nutritional perspective, from a health perspective, or anything like that.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where sort of 1801 ultras come from.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think what you've really hit on there is the fact that the chocolate bars that we tend to think of as chocolate, that doesn't have the nutritional value.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you're thinking about just a normal, straightforward milk chocolate bar with all flavours, whatever.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: But you're talking about that that dark chocolate, which actually a lot of people have always spoken about.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: But because it's so bitter for many people, they don't understand it, so they avoid it, and then we get this narrative in our head this is hot chocolate, this is chocolate, and it's not good for you kind of thing, which it it's like your product is functional, or I would say the it because of all the nutritional aspects of it, how does it differ from the other I don't want to call them functional because they are wellness drinks like a matcha latte or a traditional hot chocolate or how how does it um so pr prel preliminary, it's mainly down to the sugar content.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: We're 70% less sugar than any hot chocolate that's on the market.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: And the aim of that is because when I sort of reached out and started to talk about the hot chocolate in general, I'd done a lot of testing and I travelled to see what people thought about different hot chocolates and things.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously, like you say, bitterness is a key factor as to why people don't go down the dark chocolate route.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: So when I decided to make the hot chocolate, I was very clear with I don't want the bitterness, I want it to be high cacao, no bitterness, low in sugar, packed with benefits, you know, just naturally from the cacao rather than anything else, and very little other ingredients.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: So what you're getting is that, you know, when people talk about the high that they get from sh chocolate, you know, from white chocolate, ruby chocolate, milk chocolate, the high they get is from sugar.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: The high they get from dark chocolate is from the Thea Bromine and the cacao itself.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the difference with my chocolate, isn't the fact that it's it's focused more on the high cacao chocolate and significantly less sugar.
• 7:04
  unknown: Yes.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: I love the sound of it, and I love the sound that you can have chocolate and nutritious in the same sentence as well.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's like blown my mind a little bit.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you've got an an adult range and a kids range.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Can you tell us more about that and also why it's important to have both?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yep, so I started with the adults, um, and the adults is a 72%, an 87%, and a hundred percent.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, you you go up in range, so a lot of people start with the 72, and so effectively with the adults, it's a bit like a fine wine.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: So that there's a lot of berry notes behind it.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's red red berries and cherries that are sort of the back notes of the chocolate.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people start with a 72 and then slowly build their way up.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, whereas with the kids' ones, I wanted to show that you know, parents didn't didn't have to give their kids just the usual chocolate that's out there.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: They had that variety that actually they could have a hot chocolate and actually still do their homework and not have this sugar rush or sugar craze um argument that's on their hands and also allow them to have better sleep and things.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I've created the kids' range.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: But the kids range starts slower, so it starts at 50%, 61% and 72.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: And you still get all the benefits, so there's still a lot less sugar than any hot chocolate that are out there.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's interesting that a lot of the when I tested it out, I tested it on 30 amazing kids ranging from the age of three to sixteen, and the majority of them were going for the 61%.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_03: Now they're all connoisseurs and they're just like 61 or the 72.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'll I'll go for that.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_04: It's brilliant.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: But what they found was A, they loved the fact that they could be independent and and sort of feel like they're making themselves something that's going to help them, and obviously, because it's hot chocolate, it makes you feel you know, the hug in a mug feel, it helps them calm down, they get really good night's sleep, and it also does help with energy and focus and concentration, so it's a great way.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think it's also important that yes, we have a kids and an adult's range, but people who are vehemently on the sweet side of chocolate, it's also seen as a gateway to darker chocolate.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: So if you are you know, you don't have to be a child to have the children's, you can be anybody.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: And if you want to start going into venturing the dark chocolate world, start with the lower amounts and then build up.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say it's um is it an acquired taste?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, just to interrupt there to ask about uh because I know something like I don't know, coffee, for example, it is a bit acquired, wine can be acquired and you start with a sweet first, or are there people who just kind of connect with the darker chocolate straight away?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um a bit of both.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: I what I've what I've noticed throughout the last couple of years is more people who are more aligned with doing sport and athletes and high-energy um things like that are more aligned with the darker chocolate.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: It seems to hit something in their brain.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um whereas people who are more on the sweeter side tend to go obviously for the lighter side, and the diff the main difference, other than the sort of percentage of the the adults and the kids, is that the kids' ones has also got more of a fruity flavour to it.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: So it changes because obviously kids' palates are not the same as adults, and we do evolve and change as we grow.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: So the one thing that I wanted was obviously because I'm not a child, I needed children to test it out and to understand that actually they preferred the sort of fruity citrusy flavours behind with the back notes that they would um rather than the berry ones.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it all sounds amazing.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I was thinking, because you said it aids concentration and focus.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking that you know, why don't every school should have it and and they should have that as a mid-morning snack or something.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds amazing.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: In the old days.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: I've got it now, so you know I I I always have it first thing in the morning.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: For me, it's a coffee replacement.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I literally have the 87 or the 100% in a small cup like this, uh, with just hot water and whisk it up.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: Nice.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sounds delicious.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so when you you you speak about ritual um routine kind of around having the chocolate, so that's obviously your routine, one of them.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: You have it in the morning.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: How does ritual support good mental health?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think in this day and age we've lost the ability to slow down because everything is so available to us.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, uh a lot of times we've lost the ability to just pause.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things um that you do with the hot chocolate is obviously you take that time, you you put the chocolate in the cup, you wait for the kettle to boil or the milk to boil, and it's it's that element of being able to slow down and to absorb the the sense of the smells of the chocolate that come in before you actually drink it.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're preparing and you're very much in the present, and that pause I think creates a moment of mindfulness in the day.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then you know, yes, you could just down it very quickly, or you could just take those extra five minutes to just create that little bubble of wellness, of calm, of present day thought in the moment, drinking the hot chocolate, and it's just it's just that lovely little ritual that it doesn't have to take long, it could just be five minutes, but it makes a big difference in your sort of mental health and being able to calm your thoughts and how you actually deliver for the rest of the day.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: It sort of sets you up or calms you down so you can actually have a good night's sleep.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: And this is just I guess my curiosity.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, is it slightly thicker than uh tea or coffee, just in terms of its consistency?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Marginally, yes.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Not a huge amount, but it is a little bit, it's um I was gonna say it depends how much chocolate you put.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, yeah.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Have it the consistency of custard if you like.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but and it also changes.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: So I have it with hot water, but if you have it with milk, it becomes a little bit more luscious and uh creamier.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because the only reason I ask that is because I think that adds an extra pause.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because with tea and coffee, you you can drink that very quickly, even though you've got the ritual of kettle boils, you know, wait for it to go for coffee, wait for it to go off boiling and so on.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: But you can then drink it quite fast afterwards.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: But chocolate being that little bit more textural, I think it does slow you down anyway.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know whenever I've had a hot chocolate or something which just has that texture, yeah, I want to drink it slowly.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it feels more luxurious, doesn't it?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're gonna keep you, Carol, and we'll be back just after some tips from our resident experts.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Your brain is incredibly efficient, but not always helpful.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: It loves shortcuts, what we we call patterns or habits.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you can drive somewhere and not remember the journey or read your food without even thinking.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the catch.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Your brain doesn't judge the pattern, it just repeats what's familiar.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if the connections uh like stress to food has been repeated enough times, that becomes the default.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not because you chose it consciously, but because your brain learned it.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: The good news, the good news is that anything learned can be relearned, but not through force, through awareness and repetition, or if you want to take a shortcut, hypnapsis.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So the takeaway is this: you don't need to fight your habits, you need to understand and retrain them because your brain is always listening to what you repeat.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Mental Health Matters.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: We are falling in love with chocolate all over again, but the actual chocolate, the real chocolate, not chocolate flavouring, not chocolate with so much sugar in it.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about proper chocolate.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got Carol Armitage here, she's the founder of AT Noir Ultra, and this is a functional hot chocolate.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And from if you've just tuned in, please go back because you'll really begin to understand what the value of the cacao is, the actual chocolate.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yeah.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and and on that, cacao um has compounds, you've mentioned them before, theobromine and antioxidants.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: How do they support us in terms of our mood and our focus and our body and so on?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's I mean, it's there's so much to it.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's and then I'm not a medical expert, so I'm not coming at it this from a medical standpoint.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: This is just sort of research side of things.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but effectively, what you've got is the cacao compound, which in some ways it it increases serotonin, dopamine, endorphins.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's got the polyphenols, which act of obviously is your act um antioxidants as well, which then helps lower your um stress levels and anxiety levels, but it also helps with cardiovascular health, it helps with cognitive function.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you're looking at it from a sporting perspective, the cacao itself helps with um increasing nitric oxide, so it opens up the blood vessels, so allows you to work harder for longer and it increases your energy levels.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one of the big important things is also because it's low in sugar, you're not getting the energy spikes that you would get.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: So when you have the other chocolate, I just call it that, um, quite often you your energies will just go like that and then spike and then come back down, and it makes you want to have another bar or another piece.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: So you're constantly your brain is connected to that sugar high and goes, Oh, I need another one, I need another one.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas with the dark chocolate, the high that you get is is from the the cacao itself.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: It also is linked to the tryptothan, which is similar to caffeine, but it's oh the sorry, the cabromine and the tryptothan are similar to caffeine, but it's it's a lot slower and softer.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: So you get the focus and the concentration and you maintain those energy levels for a lot longer.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's one of the reasons why a lot of athletes have it before they do exercise, because instead of having dipping up and down with your energy sources, you've got a long maintained energy level that you can keep at that same standard.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's so interesting because I know if I've done Park Run, I I it's not I reward myself with chocolate, but I want I want something sweet.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: But you what happens is exactly what you've described.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's the high of the sugar hit, and it's not long lasting.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So even if we aren't having a functional hot chocolate drink, would you say even a piece of dark chocolate is better than anything, anything sweet?
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so what I mean the the hot chocolate that I have and that that we have is put into like a 300 gram, sorry, a 250 gram bag, and it's pieces of real chocolate.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: So you can eat it, you can lit open the bag and smell it and just get the smell of the aroma, which helps calm you down, but also eat it, bake with it, cook with it, and make it into the hot chocolate.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really versatile in that sense.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: But all you need is a small square, and like you say, after Poke Park Run, when you're wanting something to just give you that nourishment, yes, that is the perfect thing to give you because it gives you also you know magnesium and all the other chemical, not chemicals, minerals and vitamins as well.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it really does help post-exercise.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just think it's so interesting that you've used the word nourishment because you don't associate that with chocolate.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: I will now, but I will only associate it with the chocolate you're talking about.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: In my head, I'm restructuring what chocolate means.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: I wish we'd known this a long time ago.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's brilliant, yeah.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely brilliant.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So um how does your approach then, how does that blend the flavour with the with the nutrition and the function?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: So as you say, you you you get you're energized from it, you you feel calm, you said when you kind of inhale from the bag um and the focus, etc.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we start with the flavor mainly.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it doesn't, if it doesn't taste exceptional, people won't drink it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's down yeah, so it's down to the quality of the chocolate.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the chocolate that we have comes from three different places it's Papua New Guinea, Maluca Islands, and the Venuto Islands near the Philippines.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's small crops um that's got really fertile soil and it's it gives a really beautiful flavour, so you do taste that.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think the function comes from choosing high-quality chocolate and creating those different percentages that suits different moments of that day.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: So people can, you know, they can choose whatever um percentage they want depending on what they're feeling for that part of the day.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: So if they're wanting a you know, a stronger boost in the mid-afternoon to keep them awake, maybe they go for a slightly darker one or um a soothing a more soothing one in the evening, uh which a slightly lighter one.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: The aim is to support moments of calm, focus, and enjoyment throughout everyday rituals.
• 21:13
  unknown: Oh, I love that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's all just sounding amazing.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so sustainability and sourcing.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you you've talked about where they come from, big trends, obviously, very important.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: How does your supply chain reflect those values?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we obviously, as I said before, we focus on the high chocolate source through established supply chains, and we work closely with the specialist partners.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, the supply chains that we have know the farmers, they they work really closely with them, so it's very much been to beverage on this sort of transparent scale.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: And in regards to the sustainability, is a major focus for us, and especially for the future of the business.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm also I'm working currently on a new innovation.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Called the Cocoa Pod, which is exploring more sustainable pod solutions for the hot chocolate alongside the actual product itself.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: But in terms of the full sustainability of the business, we're looking to try and be fully sustainable by 2030.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's absolutely brilliant.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And that's such a great aim to have as well.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we are going to keep you, Carol, because um after this next break, we're going to be going on to talk about something which you're very passionate about, and that is celiac, a diagnosis of celiac.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Could you tell us a little bit more, just before we go on to that um later, about what being diagnosed with celiac actually means for someone in terms of what they can eat?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think there's a little bit of a misunderstanding around it still.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I th I think it's it's more the fact that celiac requires quite a strict avoidance of gluten, gluten.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_03: Gluten.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so any sort of concentration or contamination can be a real concern, even as microscopic as somebody using a bread knife on normal bread and then not not not washing it and then not using on gluten bread.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: It can have a real uh impact to somebody that's intolerant.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's really selective, and you've got to be very, very aware of what's out there.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it's it can be quite draining for people, you know, because you've obviously got to you can't just grab something, look at it, you know.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: If you go to somebody's house and they're cooking a beautiful dinner, you've still got to be cognizant of what's actually gone inside there.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, is it anything that I have to be aware of?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and what I didn't want to do with the whole hot chocolate is for anybody to have to compromise on their dietary requirements and have to worry about what they're putting in or have to even ask that question up front.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we are gonna come back and talk about that just after a few of our well-being tips from our resident experts.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Most people are waiting to feel motivated before they take action.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: But motivation doesn't work like that.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Action creates motivation, not the other way around.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, how often do you feel like going to the gym before you go?
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: But once you start, it gets easier.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's because action creates momentum.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And momentum creates motivation.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of waiting to feel ready, focus on starting small.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: One step, five minutes, a tiny action.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because the hardest part is not the task, it's the beginning.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: So the takeaway is simple.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Don't wait for motivation.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Create it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to Mental Health Matters, where we're having such a lovely discussion about chocolate, and um, it's a real eye-opener as to um what it can do in the healthy.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know, it's amazing.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Spoiler alert, it is not what you think it is.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, chocolate is not if whatever comes to mind first for the majority of you, it won't be that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, I'm gonna, I'm definitely gonna be doing some online ordering after this.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: And we're talking to Carol Armitage, who's the founder of um 18 Noir Ultra.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, we were just talking about celiac disease, weren't we, just before?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, can you explain what celiac friendly is in the context of your products?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um how does that differ from generic gluten-free product labelling?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: So, for us, so the the supplier that I actually have is all gluten-free, so that it literally the factory that it's in doesn't touch anything as well, so it's it's every all the chocolate that it is made in that's in that factory is all gluten-free, so there's no there's no concern of cross-contamination or using different pipe works to make anything or the roasting or anything like that.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: So, from that perspective, we starting that.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, and that's that was one of the principles that I wanted to work with this supplier, plus, they had such a great connection with the actual um farmers and and things like that.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the other one is just making sure that the ingredients that we have and the manufacturing process were taken really seriously.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think it just gives consumers extra confidence that they can actually enjoy this premium hot chocolate without compromising on their requirements.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I, you know, served uh gluten-free products, but people with celiac disease can't have them because they just say, well, it's really close to that bread, for example.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's amazing that you've got a whole factory that's really free there.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and how do you think the market for celiac safe foods is evolving?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think it's growing.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think initially I think the trend, there was a trend, and it was very much a gluten-free trend.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and what I've noticed, because I sort of stuck with celiac rather than gluten-free, it's becoming more and more known and talked about.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think more I don't know if it's a case of more people are suffering from it, but it's just it's a conversation that actually is being had more so, and I think um there is more people trying to understand how to accommodate it, how to sort of increase it into their sort of day-to-day um workings, whether it's other brands, etc.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I I think it's it's working, but it's it still has it's like everything, doesn't it?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: It all needs a bit more education, a bit more understanding, needs to find ways that we can help that's natural or you know, anything else.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're right to talk about the trend, yeah, because there was at one point gluten-free as a thing, and then people who actually are not do don't have celiac were all buying gluten-free because it was the trendy thing, and then a lot of dietitians, nutritionists came out and said, no, no, no, if you don't have celiac, actually you shouldn't have it, yeah, shouldn't be avoiding that.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've also got this other thing about um how men in particular, I I just know a couple of men who are doing this.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I I think I might be intolerant to to wheat and the but you're drinking beer.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: So with do you know what?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: I I think that is just unfortunately, I think that's across the board because I I I do remember when I first launched and I I launched at the National Running Show, and I was trying to explain the benefits of dark chocolate, and that there was there was a few people and they were just like, No, I can't have that, it's full of sugar.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: And they were literally eating a massive bar of flatjack, and I was just like, really?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, right.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think could we have a conversation here so I can explain this to you because I'm not quite and it's like, oh, but this is just full of oats and honey, and you're just like, what is happening?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: What's happening?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, with that, you know, what is misunderstood about celiac, about sugar, even about all of it?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think there's some real misunderstandings out there, and there's some narratives in the media which are just not helpful.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: It comes back to the a bar of chocolate a day is good for you.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not, it depends on the chocolate.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's it's like everything, there's a sliding scale of everything, isn't there?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: With chocolate, there's a sliding scale.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_03: You you start with the sugar high from the white chocolate, the milk chocolate, the ruby chocolate, and then the the high comes from the cacao with the dark chocolate, you know, and the same with the CB app or gluten-free.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: Some people do it because it's trendy and because, you know, even now, you know, the trend's protein, isn't it?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's that that's the trend at the moment, is everything is high in protein and and it's moving into high fibre as well.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: So we're moving that way, which is great.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: But it's all we'll all come full circle, and I think it's it's I think the important thing is do what works for your body body and what doesn't.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: But if there's companies out there that can actually help people that are genuinely have, you know, this autoimmune problem, then great, you know, and if you if you choose to be gluten-free, absolutely fine too.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: But it's it's just having that knowledge and education around all of it and what's available for people who do have this condition.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's exactly the point.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: It is about knowing what works for you and knowing what's um yeah, what's a trend, and it's all very well trying the trend, but if it's not made for your system, I think that becomes there does become a problem.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what feedback from your clients has surprised you?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um first I think it was the changing in understanding, because it took a quite a long time for to sort of explain that chocolate could be done, could be had on a day-to-day basis.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_03: That was the biggest change, but also the fact of hearing stories of how they've used it to help their mental health and their wellness.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: So there's there's so many people that have mirrored back to me what I've been saying all along is that it is good for your mental health, it is good for your well-being, you can have it on a day-to-day basis, it does reduce your stress levels, your anxiety, it can give you a good night's sleep, you know, it can help soothe and just give you those moments of calm and give you the concentration and focus.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: And people are actually saying, I've found that too, you know, and I can't this is why I have it every single day.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: Or I replace one of my coffees with this because I know it helps calm me down, and if I'm having a really stressful day, I'll reach for the hot chocolate.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just those, it's nice to know that people are bringing it into their well-being rituals, and that that for me is really it's like a tick box thing.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love your point about how people just are mirroring back the things that you're saying.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh, it is true.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I always think that's really funny.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it did make a change for you, did it?
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: Like I said, it's been a while, but yeah, it's kind of like everything, it goes full circle, isn't it?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: As long as you say it and they they look at you in disbelief to begin with until they actually experience it, and then it starts to be part of their day-to-day.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's really, really positive, and I think what you're doing is so positive.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is next for you, and where can we learn more about you?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, at the moment, as I mentioned before, I'm creating basically I'm creating a real chocolate cocoa pod that fits into an espresso compatible machine.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yay!
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: So love that brilliant.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: At the moment, I'm raising investment.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a grant available, so we're looking at the RD to set that up because we've got the RD partners already in place.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: And we're using the chocolate that we already have that's been validated by the customers.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: So the whole range will be in these cocoa pods.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: And we're looking once we've got the investment to come through, we will also be looking at exporting just also the retail side as well as getting it all tested in hotels, and that's the sort of main part is to test it in hotels and hospitality because obviously it's predictable revenue, and who doesn't want a decent hot chocolate in a hotel night out?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then obviously, because of the machines are available to everybody, you can then get it in your household, and then obviously with subscription and then growing it.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: But we're also, whilst we're doing the pod, creating a similar, a compostable no waste pod at the same time, but that's gonna take slightly longer.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that's brilliant.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, oh gosh, we wish you every success.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: What see your website?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it's www.18oarultra.com.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, I missed that bit.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, fantastic.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: We'll all be looking that up now, and I'll pump that with the show notes too.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Carol, it's been such a pleasure.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: We wish you continued success with what you're doing because what you're doing is brilliant, and I think it's so important to change that narrative around chocolate because it is good for us when you when it's used appropriately and correctly.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, and we will head over to Test the Trend.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Today's Test the Trend challenge is a little bit like adding a ritual into your day.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And whether you've got a hot chocolate or not, you can still do this particular ritual.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: This works very well for children because it's quite a nice um use of imagery, but adults use it as well, and it's just simply a breathing ritual.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh now many people know the square breathing, which is breathe in for two, out for two, in for two, and so on, or it might be in for two, hold for two, out for two, hold for two.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it depends on what suits you.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: But this one is to imagine that you have a hot chocolate in front of you.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can see the steam, you can see the marshmallows, whatever you're putting in there as extra, which is not quite so good for you, but that's okay.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I want you to just breathe in the smell.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: So you just breathe in.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And as you breathe in, you see that steam coming towards you.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then as you breathe out, see that steam go away from you.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And again, so you breathe in, bring the steam in, the smells, and as you breathe out, blowing the steam away.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: And if you practice that, it gives you an image to focus on, and it's a really nice one that you can do with children because they can connect with that image very, very quickly.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Or alternatively, you can even try it when you are drinking your 18 noir chocolate.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy we had her on this show.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Me too.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's just completely changed my view of what chocolate is.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: I never ever thought it could be good for you.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: I've because I've seen the uh the brands that do the dark chocolate, yeah.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I've I have to admit, I've never really liked them.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: I found it too bitter.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: And even then, I think it's processed.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm sure.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I I don't bother.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know it's not gonna taste very nice.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: But what was so interesting for me, or or that really resonated is the whole idea that when you're eating a normal bar of chocolate, it's the sugar high that you're getting.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I genuinely believe when people say it's good for you, I think they're thinking about the sugar spike.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure they are, or I'm sure maybe they don't think about it at all, and all they hear is it's good for you, and so that's a good enough reason to to have it.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: But really, and this is the crux of our show.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's really what are we talking about when we say chocolate?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and as Carol broke down so well, what bits of the chocolate are we talking about?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think once you've done that, it becomes so much easier to understand, oh right, so that's what is cacao that's good for us.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah, and it's a it's a whole kind of and I sort of knew that, but Carol explained it so clearly.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bit of a revelation, and I can't wait to go on her website and order some.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that I'm so happy she brought up was to call out the trends.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because I remember the gluten-free trend.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and then you try it because you kind of go, well, I I don't know what that's gonna taste like.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is that gonna be no?
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, you're not really supposed to have it because gluten, if you're not gluten intolerant, is actually not good for us necessarily, but it's a protein, it's a protein, yeah.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's all part of a nutritional balanced diet.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, it is, and you're right.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: You said some people are gluten intolerant, and it's different, and it's very, very, very different to to having celiac disease.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: So um, there are two different things.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I I know that if I lay off bread for a week or two, I feel so much better, but I'm not sure that's the gluten, it's you know, it's the wheat, it's the stodge, it's the yeast, it's all of that.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, what some people might consider themselves to be gluten intolerant might not be, it might just be, yeah, carbohydrate intolerant.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really interesting because you've pulled out exactly the point that that Carol makes about chocolate is work out what it is that's affecting you.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's very easy to say, oh, it's that thing definitely, because everybody's saying it.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it really might not be.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is a little bit like, and I know we're going off the point here, ADHD versus autism versus OCD.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people who, because the trend is ADHD, will say, Oh, I need to get a diagnosis for ADHD.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: You might actually have OCD.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to throw that out there, and you make, you know, you're paranoid about something else.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: But the whole thing there is medication for ADHD will conflict with OCD symptoms.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: And vice versa.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to know what it is you're intolerant of or what it is that's causing you to feel the symptoms that you're feeling before you go and avoid it completely and then throw out your nutritional balance.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's really important.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and obviously the GP is a pivotal part of that, but only the GPs that it's taken, I think, the medical profession as a whole, to actually believe that celiac disease is a thing, or understand that that people that don't all function the same digestive-wise.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, you know, and it's a it's a very nuanced kind of um area, yeah, you know.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: People need to understand the actual individual problem before sort of espousing all kinds of generic one size fits all oh, lay off this and you'll be fine, because it might not be that that's the actual issue if you haven't had the time to exactly right, yeah.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And on that note, really think about what your actual individual needs are.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: And from all of us at Mental Health Matters, have a healthy week.