Latest / I Think Less of You Podcast / Looksminning

Transcript

Looksminning · I Think Less of You Podcast

0:00
[music]
0:15
SPEAKER_00: I have actually started up a,
0:17
SPEAKER_00: I have a subscriber chat now that I'm going to drop links to this in it,
0:21
SPEAKER_00: which a couple of people who I know listen to this chatter are subscribers to me,
0:26
SPEAKER_00: but they popped up with the option to do a subscriber chat.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: I have like 16 subscribers.
0:32
SPEAKER_00: I've never really done anything for them.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: I think they just subscribed to me because they like what I do and they want to support it.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: But I was like, you know what?
0:39
SPEAKER_00: I should Since they have an option for a subscriber chat, I should start up a subscriber chat.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: So now I have a subscriber chat.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: If you subscribe to me, you can join a DM group.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: On Twitter.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: On Twitter.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: You can join a DM group with me on Twitter.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: I obsessively check my DMs.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: It's a problem.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: I always...
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Surfing over to there to check to see if anybody has said anything interesting
1:09
SPEAKER_00: or something I need
1:09
SPEAKER_01: to respond to.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: So that was, I posted
1:12
SPEAKER_01: it and I was
1:12
SPEAKER_00: like, none of you have to use this.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: I don't care if you do,
1:15
SPEAKER_00: but bear in mind,
1:16
SPEAKER_00: I will in fact engage with you here because I will be obsessively checking my DMs.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: I feel like you should add me as a free subscriber.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to pay you.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm not giving free rides.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm not running a charity here.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: I will remember that next time you want to have a friend send your camp.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I will add you.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: You've paid your dues.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wait.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: I also do all the work, which really is not much for this.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: And I do it really poorly.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm not holding my key.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to start just dropping the links to this.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: If you want to listen, you can.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Because these are people who I would assume are particularly interested
2:05
SPEAKER_00: in my thinking because they decided to subscribe to me,
2:07
SPEAKER_00: which I love and I appreciate.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't ask that.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: I think I set it at $4 a month.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm not worth that much because I'm a looksminner.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I want to get back to that.
2:19
SPEAKER_01: But quickly,
2:20
SPEAKER_01: I do just want to really quickly plug that we do have a chat function in Substack
2:25
SPEAKER_01: as well.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I love Substack.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that we'll stay with that.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't like Substack.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: I really don't like it.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: I really don't like it.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: If we find something better, we might jump ship.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
2:37
SPEAKER_01: But if you don't want us to jump ship, use that chat function and make it so that we can't.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Substack is actually pretty,
2:46
SPEAKER_00: they are not reliable actually sending me notifications that we got responses
2:53
SPEAKER_00: to our posts on Substack every once in a while.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: A lot of the time my wife actually looks at our Substack thing.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: She comments onSubstack
3:02
SPEAKER_00: too.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Text me and say, you got a reply on Substack, you should go reply to them.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: So then I'll go reply.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: It's the one place you can see random appearances of Mrs. Cusey.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
3:20
SPEAKER_01: I would say that you would see Luke on there, but we all know that's not true.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: But he is on Twitter.
3:25
SPEAKER_01: Like, you can find,
3:26
SPEAKER_01: I used to have my husband linked in my bio,
3:29
SPEAKER_01: and then I was like,
3:30
SPEAKER_01: I need to remove that because I,
3:32
SPEAKER_01: like, he should not be judged on how
3:34
SPEAKER_00: horrendous his wife is.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he doesn't need that albatross around his neck.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: No, like...
3:39
SPEAKER_01: He already has to be married to me.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: The man has suffered enough.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't need to be publicly shamed over it.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Let's go back to Luxmaning because this is one of the stupid dumbass things
3:51
SPEAKER_01: that you have said in a group chat.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: I actually really love it.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: This
3:58
SPEAKER_01: started because I sat and I was warning you beforehand
4:03
SPEAKER_01: because I haven't showered in two days.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: The whole problem with Boston to Colorado is all my good stuff is in Boston now.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: And I come home to Colorado and we had only two rolls of toilet paper in the house.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: We have a little bit of food.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: And I have some janky, horrible conditioner that I stopped using years ago.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I didn't really set myself up for success on this.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just embracing the Western be gross mentality.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: And I look disgusting.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: And you were like, no, you look fine.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, this is your looksman-ing stuff.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: Because there's the clavicular, the weird, bizarre influencer.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: He more or less personally efforted the concept,
4:53
SPEAKER_00: the idea of looks maxing into the public consciousness,
4:58
SPEAKER_00: which is like,
4:58
SPEAKER_00: you know, doing,
4:59
SPEAKER_00: taking all sorts of drugs and doing radical surgeries to make yourself look as good
5:05
SPEAKER_00: as possible.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: It's called looks maxing.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't look that good.
5:09
SPEAKER_01: No, he doesn't look that good.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Although I have a very skewed.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: I have a very skewed taste in men.
5:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't like pretty boys.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: I like larger, fluffy eyes.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm not someone who's going for a look-smaxing dude.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: He takes a hammer and hits his cheek lightly with it to cause microfractures
5:30
SPEAKER_01: because he thinks that that's going to make his cheekbones more defined.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: And, like, I want none of this.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: I like a guy who cares about his appearance.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: Like, my husband is...
5:41
SPEAKER_01: He's actually a really good dresser, and he cares about his beard, and he cares.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: He puts in a little bit of effort, and that's all I need.
5:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: And I have staked out my space as being looks-minning to be the opposite
5:56
SPEAKER_00: of looks-maxing, because I don't care.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Now, I say that, but before we started recording, I was just guessing.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: You didn't say that, but you were like, I'm self-conscious
6:05
SPEAKER_01: about how I look.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: I don't like wearing shorts because I don't like the way I look at them.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: You're currently wearing sweat clothes.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: I don't own sweat clothes.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't slop around the house in pajamas when I wake up.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: I put on jeans, I put on an undershirt, and I put on my button downs.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't wear t-shirts.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: I say Luke Smith.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: It's so Luke.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: This is also Luke quoted.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: You and my husband are so the same on this.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Luke does have a pair of sweatpants.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: He wears them if Like if he was working really hard all day and he showers like late
6:37
SPEAKER_01: at night, he'll put sweats on.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: He wears sweats to bed sometimes, but like to sleep in.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: And I can tell that he is sick because he throws on sweats.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what's wrong?
6:48
SPEAKER_01: Like you're not in jeans and a button down.
6:50
SPEAKER_01: He's always in a button down or like he'll be in khakis a lot.
6:53
SPEAKER_01: And now that he's in seminary, he's like dress dressed all the time, which I appreciate.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: If I am sick, I am still dressed.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: There is no situation in which I am wearing sweat clothes.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't own sweat clothes.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: I own gym clothes.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: But Luke, like, when he gets sick, I'm sick all the time, as we know.
7:12
SPEAKER_01: I have an immune disorder, so I get sick really easily, and I'm literally sick all the time.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: I have blood cancer.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm Courtney.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: I love how you make fun of me for that.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: This is really great.
7:22
SPEAKER_01: No, but, like, when he gets sick, he gets sick.
7:25
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
7:26
SPEAKER_01: For him to get sick.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: And he's just like, my daughter got her immune system from him.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: God bless.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: Because when she gets sick, it's bad.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: And you know it's bad.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Whereas if my son and I get sick, it's like, yeah, it's a day that ends in Y.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't get sick much, but when I get sick, it really floors me.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: That's why he has sweats.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: The man deserves his sweats.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: I will hear no comments.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm not judging how other people dress.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, don't get me wrong.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: I do judge how other people dress.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: If I see someone at the grocery store and they're like a grown-ass man at
8:02
SPEAKER_00: the grocery store wearing pajama bottoms, I'm judging that.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: What about a grown-ass
8:07
SPEAKER_01: woman in the pajamas?
8:09
SPEAKER_00: You and I are on record as having very different ideas
8:13
SPEAKER_00: on what sartorial choices are appropriate in women.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: My wife, thankfully, entirely agrees with me.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: She does not wear tights as pants.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: I don't wear tights as pants either, but I do have some black.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: She doesn't wear leggings as pants.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: She doesn't wear the jeans that look like you would attack by a badger.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
8:34
SPEAKER_01: Like ripped jeans?
8:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the pre-ripped jeans.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: I love, I love.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: No, those are horrible.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: My oldest daughter keeps complaining because apparently all her friends are like,
8:43
SPEAKER_00: you know, wandering around looking like they had a wolverine go after their legs.
8:47
SPEAKER_01: How Wolverine go after them is unhingely.
8:52
SPEAKER_01: Ripped dates are not a new concept.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: This isn't some use of today.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: She keeps complaining, but my wife and I are unified front on this.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to buy you pre-damaged clothing.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: This is not happening.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: Damaged clothing.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: Damaged clothing.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: But it is.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: It has literally sewn in stress breakpoints built into it.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: It's an insane thing.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: It's called style, sir.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: I grew up poor.
9:20
SPEAKER_00: We prided ourselves that our clothes were torn up.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to put my child in pre-torn up clothing.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: That's nuts.
9:32
SPEAKER_01: So my mom said that for like five seconds,
9:37
SPEAKER_01: and then she was like, oh, that's kind of cute, though.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: It isn't.
9:39
SPEAKER_00: It isn't cute.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: It looks stupid.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to go out there.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: It looks dumb.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm not an in-your-face person.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: If I see someone, I'm not going to be like, oh, I'm not going to say something.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: But I'm thinking stuff.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, you know, this is cute.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to record that and remember that.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: You're not going to say anything.
10:00
SPEAKER_00: I'll say things to you.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: I'm saying if I don't know the person.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: But if it's
10:05
SPEAKER_01: to me, it's
10:06
SPEAKER_00: fine.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: It's different.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: So nice to me.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: So, so nice to me.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Always.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
10:17
SPEAKER_01: I feel like my husband dresses really nice and he's like,
10:20
SPEAKER_01: he's wearing a dress shirt and dress pants and a cassock like all day, every day.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: So the man deserves to wear some sweats.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: But also he, I'll take it a little step further.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: I am very situationally appropriate.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: Like when I am not wearing sweats, I'm like pretty dressed up.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: I'll wear jeans and t-shirts sometimes, but it's not that common.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: If I'm in jeans,
10:48
SPEAKER_01: I usually have a blazer on or a really nice sweater, but I wear black pants a lot.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: I wear dresses all the time.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: I overdress when it's time to dress up.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: Luke takes care of his beard very well, and I appreciate that.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: I do not.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: I aspire to be the kind of person who thinks about, oh, I need to properly shape my beard.
11:09
SPEAKER_00: I take a weed whacker to it like once a month.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: He takes scissors.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: No, I have an electric trimmer.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: I just like, what about once a month?
11:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, it's about that time, I guess.
11:21
SPEAKER_01: He takes like, so especially in Boston, in Colorado, we have two sinks in our bathroom.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at them right now.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: And his beard will just go everywhere.
11:32
SPEAKER_01: In Boston,
11:33
SPEAKER_01: it's been different because we're in such a flippin' tiny space
11:37
SPEAKER_01: and our bathroom is like the size of a postage stamp.
11:41
SPEAKER_01: So he gets paper bags from the grocery store and he'll cut them apart
11:46
SPEAKER_01: and like fold it out and he'll just take 15 minutes and sit and like
11:51
SPEAKER_01: with scissors trim up his beard.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: He's a good looking guy and he takes care of himself and I appreciate it.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Way too ADHD to be able to do that kind of routine.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: You know what?
12:03
SPEAKER_00: I take my electric trimmer.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: I go into my backyard and I kind of like weed whack at it for a while.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: And then I go into the bathroom and I do that.
12:12
SPEAKER_00: It's where I actually have a mirror.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, finish it up.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: That's, that's, that's, that's my.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't take him, it doesn't take him that, that long.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: But it's still, it's, I'm, I'm not, you know, my wife will attest this.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm not a detail-oriented person.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: I can't like, you know, very fine, detailed work.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Your friend could attest to that too.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: Oh, there you go.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even take your wife.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Your friend knows this.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm a big picture kind of person.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: My wife needs people like me.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm also not a detail.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: It depends on the details.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: You like to think that you're not a detail person,
12:48
SPEAKER_00: but if you're interested in the thing, you can get very into the details.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: But that's an important distinction because I'm not interested in a lot.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's true.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: And like, I don't know.
12:59
SPEAKER_01: I feel like detail-oriented people tend to be a little bit more on top of the ball
13:05
SPEAKER_01: in a way that I am not.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm a massive slacker.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: I need to go over to my townhouse today and find the rest of the stuff
13:12
SPEAKER_01: that I'm taking back to Boston.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: And I have a ton of clothes over there that I was going to put on Poshmark.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh,
13:19
SPEAKER_01: I need to take pictures of these and have them set and bring them to Boston with me
13:22
SPEAKER_01: and blah, blah, blah.
13:24
SPEAKER_01: But ideally, I'm just going to sit in bed all day and work.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think detail-oriented people...
13:33
SPEAKER_00: They run the risk of getting too focused on the details and not on,
13:37
SPEAKER_00: like, you know, they don't want to leave the project.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: They want to, like, you know, get it perfect, which is, you know, certainly good.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: But to say that sometimes you do need to,
13:44
SPEAKER_00: like, you know, you're in a hurry, you need to move on.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: And then you have me,
13:47
SPEAKER_00: who's very good at kind of, like,
13:48
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:49
SPEAKER_00: quickly lighting from one thing to the next and, like,
13:52
SPEAKER_00: you know,
13:52
SPEAKER_00: understanding quickly,
13:53
SPEAKER_00: but also have no patience for actually follow through, which is not good.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to blame this on being a woman the age that I am.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Of a certain age?
14:04
SPEAKER_01: A woman of a certain age?
14:06
SPEAKER_01: Yes, a woman of a certain age.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: I wasn't going to say the M word, but, you know, I am so lazy right now.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just don't want to do anything.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: I just don't care.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: I probably should visit with that.
14:18
SPEAKER_00: Age-induced nihilism.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's not even just that.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: It's like, I don't know.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: I just feel crushed by all the things I have to do.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: There's so much.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, if we sell this house, I have to clear all the crap out of it.
14:30
SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of a hoarder.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: And that is its own issue.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I don't even want to start.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, when you're in a hole so bad that you're like, I can't even start.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fair.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: Moving is never pleasant unless it's a corporate move, which is wonderful.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: Moving is never pleasant.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: And The way we're doing this so drawn out over such a long time period is torturous.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: I feel like if we had pressure, like, you have to do this by this day.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: Whereas I'm like, I don't know, maybe I'll put my house up for sale.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I won't.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, we're in a lease until August.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: And like, realistically, it doesn't even matter.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, if I, I don't know.
15:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I thrive on chaos.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: I really do.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: I really
15:16
SPEAKER_01: do, too.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't try to create.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes people say they thrive on chaos.
15:22
SPEAKER_00: They try to create.
15:23
SPEAKER_00: I don't like things being chaotic.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: I like being in a nice little rut.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: But I'm at my best when things need to be done.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: They need to be done fast.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: It's because we're both writers and writers need that deadline pressure.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Like, honestly, like, and I've always needed that in everything in life.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: So if my parents were telling me to clean my room, I'd wait until I had like 15 minutes left.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: And that 15 minutes would be like the most hyper-focused,
15:53
SPEAKER_01: like I would do the most amazing work, but I need that.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: I need a deadline.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: I need that pressure.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Like, so I was in, I was a dual major, but English was one of them.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: I had a poetry class that I literally wrote a poem about the Not having a poem ready to submit.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: And I was just staring at an empty page and like needed to run out to the bus.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, it's poetry, so it's such a joke.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: You can do weird things like that.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: And your teacher's like, oh, this is so smart.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I literally wrote a poem about how.
16:26
SPEAKER_00: That's very, that's very Coleridge.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm referencing Sam and Keller Coleridge, Xanadu.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: The end of it,
16:36
SPEAKER_00: he's just like,
16:38
SPEAKER_00: and then someone knocked on my door and it's completely ruined my chain of thought.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: I have no idea where I was going.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: And that was it.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that kind of poetry.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: It reminds me of me.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: They knocked on my door and lost my train of thought could be my autobiography title.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of which,
16:56
SPEAKER_00: our last episode ended rather abruptly because my neighbor knocked on my door
17:01
SPEAKER_00: and I had to go because he was going out of town and he wanted to leave candy
17:06
SPEAKER_00: for my daughters.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: He wouldn't be here, which was very nice of him.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: Just the cutest thing I've ever heard of.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: I left all that in, as you told me, too.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: I cut out the dead space.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
17:17
SPEAKER_01: But I honestly think that was so cute.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: But we were, what were we talking about?
17:22
SPEAKER_00: I thought we were going to pick up.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: I think we were talking about betting.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: We were talking about, well,
17:27
SPEAKER_01: we had moved into the world war on Twitter,
17:33
SPEAKER_01: but I want to go back to the betting market stuff because a lot
17:36
SPEAKER_01: of people aren't really talking about it.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you bang on this drum a lot.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: Rightfully, I'm not knocking you and saying that.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are being sponsored by them.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: So we're not hearing a lot of people call out Polymarket and Kalshi
17:51
SPEAKER_01: and their recent strong turn into becoming news outlets and polling firms,
17:59
SPEAKER_01: neither of which they are.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: They have had some success with polling.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: They actually were like 70% accurate, which is quite a bit.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Don't call it polling.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: It is not polling.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: No, I agree.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: But the point being, they were about 70% accurate.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Versus polls.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: Polling firms do not always have that accuracy.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: I would posit that that says more about the state of polling firms than it does
18:27
SPEAKER_01: about the value of Kolschi and
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Polymarket.
18:30
SPEAKER_00: I want to clarify here.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: You sent me a thing.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: What the thing said, it didn't say that their odds were 70% accurate.
18:39
SPEAKER_00: What it said was their odds were 70% accurate versus polls, which isn't the same thing.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
18:47
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to clarify that.
18:50
SPEAKER_00: They are not actually pulling down 70% accuracy.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Compared to polls.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: Which, again, I don't take as them being accurate.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: I'm saying this shows a problem with the state of polling,
19:02
SPEAKER_01: which News at 11, literally everyone knows this.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: Polling has been irreparably broken in the U.S. And I do think it was really smart.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: I do think it was really smart for them to transition to This way to monetize that.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: I also think it was inherently evil.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: And I think it sets really weird, dark precedents.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: And the fact that it's tied into really just gambling is dark.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: And I think we need to talk about them more.
19:31
SPEAKER_00: So I can only speak from the people that I follow.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure there's, because with Twitter, there's all sorts of corners.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: I occupy my little corner.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm familiar with other people in the corner of Twitter.
19:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a new ribble other corners of Twitter.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: Really, really quick.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Have you heard this?
19:52
SPEAKER_01: I just want you to address this in what you're saying.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: Do you only hear about them on Twitter?
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Do you hear about it offline, too?
20:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the polymarket and whatnot.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: There's commercials for them constantly.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: But none of my friends, in real life friends, none of my friends use polymarket, call she.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: No, I don't know anyone personally that I'm working with who admits to it.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: No one talks about it.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: No one looks at them.
20:21
SPEAKER_01: To me, it's kind of a very online thing.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: And that's why it's really important to talk about now because it's like,
20:27
SPEAKER_01: okay, have we broken containment?
20:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:31
SPEAKER_00: So within my corner of Twitter,
20:34
SPEAKER_00: they have systematically,
20:36
SPEAKER_00: and I don't know if this was the plan,
20:38
SPEAKER_00: but there are multiple people that I know of who I think would likely be the kind
20:43
SPEAKER_00: of people who would be going after and mocking and pointing out the problems
20:47
SPEAKER_00: with these things who have more or less been bought out by them with sponsorships.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: So, which is, you know, God bless them.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: That's a clever, clever thing to do.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that I I don't know what their I've never been approached by by any
21:03
SPEAKER_00: of these people.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: I would not do a sponsorship with one of them if they did.
21:08
SPEAKER_00: But I don't I don't know what exactly they're how they're structuring these.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: So there are some creators who were really open about it and did disclose.
21:18
SPEAKER_01: There are some people that both you and I think are, but haven't disclosed.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: And it's a little bit petty of us to label them that way when we don't know.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: No, no.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: To me, it's not about the disclosure.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: I think the disclosure is good.
21:30
SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: The problem is they...
21:34
SPEAKER_00: You are not going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg for the most part.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: My point, it isn't that whether they're disclosing or not.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: The problem to me is that these are people
21:47
SPEAKER_00: who I suspect would likely have strong opinions similar to mine about these things,
21:52
SPEAKER_00: except that they've been I don't think they're saying things they don't believe,
21:56
SPEAKER_00: but I think that they're not saying things that they perhaps do.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: So I will just say there are some creators who have come out and said it,
22:04
SPEAKER_01: and this is what I was getting to with the disclosure.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Not that the disclosure is important.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: It is, as we talked about yesterday, is actually the law.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: They came out and said they have a partnership with one of them.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be really vague with this just because I don't need to talk
22:22
SPEAKER_00: about someone else's stuff.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: It's all publicly available if you want to find it.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: People talk about this openly.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Most of the deals that I've seen are just, you mentioned them.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: You can do anything.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: So it can be absurd, random tweets about nothing if their name is in it.
22:38
SPEAKER_01: I, for The same reasons as you just said don't like that because
22:42
SPEAKER_01: if you're not disclosing that you have a partnership with someone,
22:45
SPEAKER_01: you're not looking at them with, like, you obviously have bias going in.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: You are being paid by them.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: You're not going to speak ill of them.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: You're not going to risk it.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which is, again,
22:56
SPEAKER_01: why you're legally required to disclose if you're being paid
23:00
SPEAKER_01: to put out communications for a company.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: But also, it's not like...
23:07
SPEAKER_01: They are doing it in an interesting way where like any mention counts.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: So you could talk crap about them.
23:12
SPEAKER_01: You're not going to, but like you could.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: It's all.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: You could,
23:16
SPEAKER_00: but they'd likely cancel the contract
23:19
SPEAKER_00: or you might be just be concerned they'd cancel the contract.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: Because obviously with money,
23:23
SPEAKER_00: the money incentive,
23:24
SPEAKER_00: you can go into it and be like, well, I'm not going to get that much money from it.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: But you still you get used to whatever money you're getting from it.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Let me
23:32
SPEAKER_01: tell you,
23:33
SPEAKER_01: it is not fun to come out against a company that you're working with and be fired
23:40
SPEAKER_01: from all future campaigns from a large umbrella organization that handles multiple
23:46
SPEAKER_01: of your clients.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: But, you know,
23:50
SPEAKER_01: it's not fun, but I,
23:53
SPEAKER_01: as someone who has done it myself and cost myself actual hundreds of thousands
23:57
SPEAKER_01: of dollars, it really sucks to do, but I...
24:01
SPEAKER_01: I do feel that I have some integrity in that because I stood up for something I believed in.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: I believe it's Ecclesiastes,
24:09
SPEAKER_00: one of my favorite quotes, what profits a man to gain the world but lose his soul?
24:13
SPEAKER_00: I've always liked that quote.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're assuming I had a soul to begin with.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fair enough.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm so mean to myself.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: It's awful.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: I really am.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: No, but this doesn't even get to – again, I don't want to call them polls.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: They're aggregate numbers.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: No, but I think it's okay to call them polls.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: They are not polls.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: And we do not think that they are polls.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: They are positioning themselves as representing polls.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: They're positioning themselves as being better than polls,
24:47
SPEAKER_00: as being –
24:49
SPEAKER_01: But they're saying that they're a better type of poll,
24:52
SPEAKER_01: and I reject that fully.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: But I do think it's fair then to call them a poll and to speak about them that way
24:59
SPEAKER_01: because that's what they're doing, right?
25:01
SPEAKER_00: They're far too easily gameable.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Because relatively not that much money is flowing through these markets and a lot
25:09
SPEAKER_00: of these questions that they're doing.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: So if a campaign throws $100,000 into it,
25:16
SPEAKER_00: Then they can easily sway the entire thing to whatever their preferred thing is.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: Now, Polymarket,
25:23
SPEAKER_00: College,
25:23
SPEAKER_00: and all these people,
25:24
SPEAKER_00: their ideal scenario is one where you have both sides going at it,
25:29
SPEAKER_00: throwing money at it to try to swing the numbers one way or the other.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, they're making money hand over fist if they do this.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, it's not rational and not useful for any real person.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Predictive qualities.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Mark it here.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: Dude, I'm sorry about that.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: I'll leave this at my father-in-law was calling because they want to take us to dinner.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: And I hung up.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: I hung up on him twice.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm doing something.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: And he called back a third time.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I have to answer this.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: So I wasn't listening to anything you just said.
26:05
SPEAKER_01: I was on the phone with my father-in-law.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to trust that it's great because you and I agree on this.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: I petered off a little bit at the end because I was trying to keep going
26:13
SPEAKER_00: and I ran out of things to say.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: You know what?
26:15
SPEAKER_01: It's okay.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: I can trim it or we can leave it in and you can have the same thing.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Wait, hold on.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: I recall yesterday you making fun of the fact that I'm not good ripping by myself.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: No, I actually did a very good job.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: There at the end, I petered off a little bit.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: I was trying to come up with where I was going.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: I have to take the girls to the mall later, and I don't know if we're going to be back.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: And there was a UPS delivery snafu yesterday,
26:49
SPEAKER_01: and there was a squirrel that got into our greenhouse,
26:53
SPEAKER_01: and there was a bunch of chaos around trapping the squirrel.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Life in Colorado is always very interesting.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: I have been here for like two or three days, and I'm like, yeah, I'm...
27:06
SPEAKER_01: I really miss being here, and it sucks not having all my stuff here.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: And also, I cannot wait to get back.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: Not just that.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: Yes, obviously that.
27:16
SPEAKER_01: Luke is my best friend.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: He's my everything.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: I suck without him.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: And also, there's just a lot here at the farm.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: So, yes.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: Prediction markets, not especially predictive, fundamentally.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: They're not especially predictive.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: They're easy to game, like you said.
27:34
SPEAKER_01: And I...
27:35
SPEAKER_01: There's just something soul crushing to me in that we are elevating gambling to this level.
27:43
SPEAKER_01: People are losing their entire livelihoods on stupid bets about like,
27:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
27:49
SPEAKER_01: I just the fact that you can bet not to bring up Sydney Sweeney,
27:52
SPEAKER_01: but her betting app, I will say the one really smart thing.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she was super nude.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: My wife hates those commercials.
28:02
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I hate those commercials, too.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: And also, if I looked like Sydney Sweeney, I might be like, I'm naked all the time.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: No, I wouldn't.
28:09
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't do that.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: But I'd be tempted to.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: Look, she looks really good.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: I get it.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: But the smart thing about that was when she was like, no politics, no betting on dust.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: I think there's something that is so dark and so satanic to me about being able
28:27
SPEAKER_01: to gamble on people's lives.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Like on whether they will live or not.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: Being able to gamble on wars,
28:36
SPEAKER_01: being able to gamble on death,
28:38
SPEAKER_01: being able to gamble on like really horrible stuff happening is really evil to me.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: I've never seen the movies or read the books,
28:47
SPEAKER_00: but to my understanding, it has a certain Hunger Games quality to it.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: My daughter's upset.
28:53
SPEAKER_01: So my daughter was dyslexic for a long time.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: So she was kind of a slow start with reading.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: And now she's like devouring everything.
29:01
SPEAKER_01: And she's so into Hunger Games because the new prequel just came out.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: And she read through all of them again and like powered through them.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: It's funny because I'm pretty sure that that movie is going to make sure
29:14
SPEAKER_01: that she is always like the most liberal she's going to be is a libertarian.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: The Hunger Games, she...
29:22
SPEAKER_01: She said a couple things,
29:25
SPEAKER_01: like when we have the radio on or I'm listening to a podcast in the car
29:28
SPEAKER_01: or something, she'll pipe up and be like, that's a little Hunger Games-y.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yes, yes, remember that.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: She's like, I don't know, the elites are coming in to take control.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yes.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: Hold on to those things, kid.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: Like baby's first Ayn Rand.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: No, it really is.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, look, I wish I could get my kids to read Atlas Shrugged now.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: I wish that Ayn Rand had a competent editor because It really should be like
29:58
SPEAKER_01: a quarter of its size.
29:59
SPEAKER_00: You really need to read addressed books while you're young and not,
30:03
SPEAKER_00: so you don't have a lot of context,
30:04
SPEAKER_00: don't have a lot of, you're not going to think it through too hard.
30:07
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean fair, but like a 70 page monologue is a bit extreme.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: I skipped the John Galt monologue.
30:14
SPEAKER_00: I skimmed it at best.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: No, that was like Francisco's.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: What's that?
30:18
SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, no.
30:19
SPEAKER_00: The John Galt monologue at the end of Atlas Shrugged where he goes on
30:22
SPEAKER_00: for like 80 pages, literally.
30:24
SPEAKER_00: But Francisco also has a monologue
30:26
SPEAKER_01: that's like 70 pages long.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: Like that book is just full of monologues that are endless.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: Like also Ayn Rand was a horrible person with no sense of ethics.
30:35
SPEAKER_01: And that book would have been fantastic if Dagny wasn't a. Yeah.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: I have, incidentally, I have today decided to be up.
30:47
SPEAKER_01: I know, I saw that.
30:48
SPEAKER_01: That's why I added that in.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: I am on a tear against libertarianism.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: When I was younger, I definitely felt like I was much closer to libertarian in outlook.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: As I have gotten older, I'm not libertarian at all.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: A really good friend of mine describes herself as being authoritarian.
31:11
SPEAKER_00: I am not going to go so far as to stake out myself as being pro-authoritarianism.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm not pro-monarchist.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm not pro-authoritarian.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: I mean, monarchy is an authoritarian system.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm just going to say.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: The only difference is who the authority that is wielding the authority is.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: I believe in a benevolent dictator.
31:35
SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, you can hope you get one.
31:38
SPEAKER_01: But otherwise, you get a bunch of idiots.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: Like, democracy is always going to end in morons running the show.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: No monarch has ever been an idiot.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: But, I mean...
31:52
SPEAKER_01: I go to a Greek Orthodox church.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm aware of every Greek monarch.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: So I know that that's not true.
31:59
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, friends.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: Hereditary.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Democracies always end in idiocy.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: I would say we're seeing that now.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: Of course, I prefer democracy.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Some of the monarchy stuff is me just being an idiot.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: Some of it is also like, well, I don't know.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: I do feel like We keep shifting towards socialism and towards communism,
32:28
SPEAKER_01: and I would rather a monarch than socialism.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: There is something to be said for a class of people who are raised from their cribs
32:40
SPEAKER_00: with an understanding of noblesse oblige, with an understanding of...
32:46
SPEAKER_00: We're shaping you to rule people, and here is how you do it.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Even in America, we had that up until relatively recently.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: The Brahmin class that populated Congress and the White House for the most part up
32:59
SPEAKER_00: until relatively recently.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's also a bit service being the key word there.
33:03
SPEAKER_00: So we have moved away from
33:30
SPEAKER_01: I would say that now,
33:32
SPEAKER_01: especially in America,
33:35
SPEAKER_01: I just got a really unhinged text from my husband that flashed across my screen and
33:39
SPEAKER_01: that just threw my head there.
33:41
SPEAKER_01: I will tell you afterwards because that threw me.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: I will say in America,
33:46
SPEAKER_01: we have moved away from politicians serving people
33:50
SPEAKER_01: and more now politics serve politicians' egos and sense of self.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is really dangerous.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: I think that is really depressing.
34:01
SPEAKER_01: I think it is disgusting.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: And if you had a monarch with a sense of service and service above all else,
34:09
SPEAKER_01: like if you look at the British,
34:10
SPEAKER_01: which they have no power,
34:12
SPEAKER_01: they don't actually do anything, but they do actually just surf.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: They're at hospital openings.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: They're at community center things.
34:21
SPEAKER_01: They are really just their...
34:23
SPEAKER_01: They're like the chief brand officers of the UK.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that they're doing the best job of that, but it is a service-led.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: It is not a control-led.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: The firm, as Elizabeth II used to call it.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: Don't call it that.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but it isn't.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: Now, Charles is an idiot.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: He's probably a Muslim, so...
34:46
SPEAKER_01: Charles is an idiot and I think he's a Muslim.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: Wills is non-religious, which is crazy considering he is going to head the church.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Although maybe his wife's bout with cancer has changed some things.
34:58
SPEAKER_01: Let's hope.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Let's hope and pray that it has softened their hearts to the church that they are going to run.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: And also, I just, I don't know.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: I don't know where I was going with that.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: I disagree with Stephen Fry on many things.
35:13
SPEAKER_00: Of course, you know who Stephen Fry is.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Side note, watch Kingdom.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't think you have.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: I don't have one.
35:20
SPEAKER_00: Fry is an evangelical atheist, for one thing.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: He's a snob.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: I love him so much.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: I have many issues with him.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: He's a very funny man.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: He's also very insightful.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: I heard a thing once where Stephen Fry was talking about The value of
35:36
SPEAKER_00: a constitutional monarchy like Britain has.
35:38
SPEAKER_00: And he made the point,
35:39
SPEAKER_00: which I thought was a good one,
35:41
SPEAKER_00: that he said,
35:42
SPEAKER_00: imagine if there was a physical manifestation of Uncle Sam,
35:48
SPEAKER_00: who every once in a while,
35:51
SPEAKER_00: the president and the speaker of the house had to go to this physical manifestation
35:57
SPEAKER_00: of Uncle Sam and say, here's what we're doing and here's why we did it.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: And get his approval.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: That's what the constitutional monarch is.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: And I kind of like that concept.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: I like that way of looking at it.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: I think that it's similar to the way that I think that it is difficult
36:16
SPEAKER_00: to maintain morality with no religious underpinnings because you tend to go,
36:21
SPEAKER_00: you trend feral in the same way.
36:24
SPEAKER_00: As Francis Bacon said, you trend feral without a master.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: I honestly think that that is why politics has morphed Yeah.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm fine saying,
36:41
SPEAKER_01: look, my husband's becoming a priest.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: It's obvious what I think is correct.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: I feel like us abandoning,
36:49
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
36:49
SPEAKER_01: I hate the whole separation of church and state thing because it's
36:52
SPEAKER_01: so misinterpreted.
36:53
SPEAKER_01: It's supposed to Protect church from state, not vice versa.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Just abandoning all morality and abandoning Christianity in our country and across Europe.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: Like, look at everything that's happening in Europe.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: Abandoning Christianity as the basis for all these things is
37:10
SPEAKER_01: the exact reason why we're in all of these problems.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: I always,
37:14
SPEAKER_00: what I have, I have,
37:16
SPEAKER_00: believe it or not,
37:16
SPEAKER_00: off and on,
37:17
SPEAKER_00: I've had, we've discussed this before to a degree, but I am very religious.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: I am not, I don't push my religiosity on others.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: I don't think I do either, for the record.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: You don't.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: But because people are aware that I'm fairly religious,
37:34
SPEAKER_00: I have had people in my DMs,
37:38
SPEAKER_00: in my direct messages on Twitter,
37:39
SPEAKER_00: having either crises of faith who are themselves religious
37:43
SPEAKER_00: or having not being religious and being interested in it.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: And I always,
37:50
SPEAKER_00: I think the formative thing
37:53
SPEAKER_00: in my religious journey was reading Francis Bacon's Treatise of Atheism.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: Bacon was a genius.
38:00
SPEAKER_00: He basically invented the modern concept of science.
38:03
SPEAKER_00: But...
38:04
SPEAKER_00: It is a real, I would commend it to everyone to read.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: It is where he goes on about how, he basically says, I would rather believe anything.
38:15
SPEAKER_00: I would rather believe the Quran.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: I would rather believe the most weird,
38:19
SPEAKER_00: That's a weird, bizarre, esoteric thing I could imagine that have no belief.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: And then he goes into this long thing about how a dog that has no master will for a
38:28
SPEAKER_00: while maintain its tameness, but eventually will turn feral.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: And people are like that, too.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't know that means a person,
38:36
SPEAKER_00: but I think people in aggregate over time,
38:39
SPEAKER_00: I think it has proven more and more true that completely unmoored from
38:43
SPEAKER_00: a commonly held conception of morality.
38:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean,
38:52
SPEAKER_01: you need anchors.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: You need anchors in life or your ship floats away.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
38:57
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people, we're also abandoning familial anchors.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: We are saying you can cut off your family if you don't,
39:07
SPEAKER_01: which, no, they're totally connected, but it's worth stating.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: You know,
39:12
SPEAKER_01: we're cutting away all of the anchors because The trend that we are seeing
39:18
SPEAKER_01: in America's youth and particularly
39:23
SPEAKER_01: in the quote-unquote woke right and on
39:26
SPEAKER_01: the left is they want you to be anchored only to the government.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: And that's it.
39:34
SPEAKER_01: It's really scary.
39:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a fan of it.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: I agree with you.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: I think that things have been getting markedly worse since the big push
39:43
SPEAKER_00: to remove everything to do with religion from public life.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: I do just want to say I get a lot of the same questions,
39:52
SPEAKER_01: obviously, because my husband's in seminary.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: I get a ton of questions all the time,
39:57
SPEAKER_01: especially because I don't come across as a super I'm not a churchy person.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm a very deeply religious person, but I am not a churchy person at all.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm Loud and profane and weird and just like really in my head about the fact
40:11
SPEAKER_01: that I'm going to be the world's worst Presbyterian because I'm, thanks.
40:15
SPEAKER_00: No, no, you're in your head about it.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: I was like, damn, dude.
40:20
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for that vote of confidence.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: No, but like I am going to be.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm not going to be good at all.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: I am a horrible, yeah, display of good Christian attitude and works.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm not worthy.
40:34
SPEAKER_01: And also, God, where was I going?
40:36
SPEAKER_01: See, there's the M word again.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: I can't keep my thoughts straight.
40:41
SPEAKER_01: No, I just so people always ask me about this stuff all the time.
40:46
SPEAKER_01: And I while I could direct them to read,
40:49
SPEAKER_01: like read the Orthodox Study Bible,
40:50
SPEAKER_01: listen to the podcast, read this, read that, read all these things.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: I just tell people to go to churches.
40:56
SPEAKER_01: I think that for for a lot of faith, like you need other humans.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: That is the point of belonging to a church and its point to going to a church.
41:06
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of Christianity has to be lived.
41:09
SPEAKER_01: And I think it's really important for people to find their church home.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I would love for more people to be Orthodox, but I don't actually care what you are.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: I want you to find your church home.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: Being a non-denominational Protestant who goes to a Catholic church,
41:25
SPEAKER_00: as I am, is difficult for me to tell people.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: Plus, I think because I come from a much more Protestant standpoint than you do,
41:34
SPEAKER_00: obviously you've never been a Protestant of any variety.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: Nope.
41:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm safe from Protestantism.
41:41
SPEAKER_00: To me, I think it is very important for people to have a philosophical understanding
41:47
SPEAKER_00: of their own relationship with God.
41:49
SPEAKER_01: I definitely believe that, but I just think you have to live it out.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but there's no church I can be like,
41:57
SPEAKER_00: you should go to this church because I don't align myself with any specific church
42:02
SPEAKER_00: because I have problems with all of them.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: I was just saying on Twitter, like, you know, that's right.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: There's a whole thing going on in the Catholic Church right now.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: I was like, you know, this is emblematic of why, like, you know, the weird...
42:16
SPEAKER_00: Inconsistencies of these things.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: You have the Archbishop of Algeria saying
42:20
SPEAKER_00: that he doesn't think Catholicism is necessarily an evangelical—or not evangelical.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't think it's about converting people.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, I can't—I can't— Align myself with that.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: It is theologically wrong, and he's the wrong person to stab.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: I understand the political reasons
42:40
SPEAKER_00: for it.
42:41
SPEAKER_01: I also get, like, he didn't want to sentence his person.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I get it.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: At the same time, we should all be really happy that Paul didn't have this issue
42:51
SPEAKER_00: when he was hanging upside down from a cross.
42:54
SPEAKER_00: No, not Paul, Peter.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but then you also,
42:57
SPEAKER_01: like, if you look at during, in the USSR, you had churches operating underground.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: I don't.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: They were operating underground, but they didn't publicly renounce their mission to.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: No, they didn't publicly renounce it.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: He just needed to say nothing.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: And that goes back to our conversation yesterday of me not wanting clergy on Twitter
43:17
SPEAKER_01: for things like this in the first place.
43:19
SPEAKER_01: I think it was.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: I just don't think.
43:21
SPEAKER_00: Our mutual friend,
43:23
SPEAKER_00: wind-up alligator hoots or whatever he goes by now,
43:27
SPEAKER_00: he just said, saying nothing is always an option.
43:31
SPEAKER_00: I know that's true.
43:33
SPEAKER_00: Just don't say anything.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: That was my big point with it.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, I totally get why he's saying it, because they'll be slaughtered.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: They live in a majority-month country where they're being
43:42
SPEAKER_00: slaughtered.
43:43
SPEAKER_01: They are actively being genocided, like, as we speak.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: I understand the reasoning.
43:49
SPEAKER_00: I feel deeply for it.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: I wish...
43:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, archbishops are usually the first against the wall, and that's just their role.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: And priests, too.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: Like, they're the captains that go down with the ship.
44:19
SPEAKER_00: It is horrible what happened.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: And again,
44:22
SPEAKER_00: but it's another of these hypocrisies because a lot of these say, like,
44:26
SPEAKER_00: the Pope and various people within the church have been running,
44:29
SPEAKER_00: like, you know, we have to have, like, you know, we are brothers with the Muslims.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's wrong to, like, you know, attack their religion and whatnot.
44:38
SPEAKER_00: It's like, dude, they...
44:39
SPEAKER_00: I understand where you're coming from to a degree,
44:42
SPEAKER_00: but also no, because this is not a two-way street.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: If someone's saying that they hate you and want you to die,
44:50
SPEAKER_01: it's okay to say, I don't want to die.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: Or at least Jesus says, if your brother slaps you, then turn the other cheek, which is fine.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't say, turn the other cheek and say, thank you, it's good that you did it.
45:05
SPEAKER_01: Also, turn the other cheek is somewhat, in my opinion, misinterpreted.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: A lot of that has to do with stature and making someone else look like
45:14
SPEAKER_01: the bad person for abusing.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: It's not like, oh, yeah, cut off my arm and ask me how it feels.
45:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but even under this classical interpretation of it,
45:29
SPEAKER_00: we're not supposed to hate them,
45:32
SPEAKER_00: but we don't have to co-sign it and say it's okay or pretend it never happened.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: It's okay to defend yourself.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:42
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like a lot of...
45:44
SPEAKER_01: Religious leaders across the West have forgotten that.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: I do think some of it is a preservation tactic.
45:50
SPEAKER_01: I do think, you know, we are supposed to be charitable.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: We are supposed to be warm and welcoming.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: And like,
45:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of a terrible evangelical because I'm not,
46:01
SPEAKER_01: I don't think that getting in people's faces and having like Super pushy discussions
46:06
SPEAKER_01: about religion sways people.
46:08
SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's me being jaded.
46:10
SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's me thinking like what works for me.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: I try to just do my best.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: And if people want to ask me about it, that's great.
46:17
SPEAKER_01: I like to lead the way, not shout about the way, not lecture people about the way.
46:23
SPEAKER_01: I think it's more effective.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: I have said before,
46:26
SPEAKER_00: my method,
46:28
SPEAKER_00: what I consider my method of proselytization is to do unto others
46:33
SPEAKER_00: as I would have done unto myself.
46:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:35
SPEAKER_00: That's, I try.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: Same thing.
46:38
SPEAKER_00: What's that?
46:39
SPEAKER_01: We just said the same thing.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean,
46:41
SPEAKER_00: I try to live by example how I wish others,
46:45
SPEAKER_00: I think others to, I try to be viewed as someone who is trying.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: So, I don't know.
46:52
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I think we're probably good.
46:55
SPEAKER_00: We've recorded two this week.
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Can you believe this?
46:58
SPEAKER_01: I know.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: We need to get back into doing that.
47:01
SPEAKER_00: I know.
47:02
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why we weren't in Boston.
47:04
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it was like, Schedules always get weird.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: I know.
47:09
SPEAKER_01: I know.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: I go home this weekend.
47:13
SPEAKER_01: We should try to do this more often.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we'll even promote one of these one day.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: Get guests.
47:22
SPEAKER_00: We had Suraj that one, which was very pleasant.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: That one was really fun, by
47:26
SPEAKER_01: the way.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: That was super fun.
47:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:31
SPEAKER_01: Really quickly before we end on the whole church topic, it was like two or three weeks ago.
47:36
SPEAKER_01: My priest has a really popular Orthodox podcast and I had called in.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: We knew the answer to this question, but we're really good friends with him.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, hey, this question comes up all the time.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: I think it would be good on your podcast.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: And then he talked about it.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: And it's a procedural thing that I don't think is interesting to talk about here.
47:55
SPEAKER_01: But what I really appreciated at the end of it He talked about how we need
48:01
SPEAKER_01: to not get involved in stupid controversies.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: And he's like,
48:05
SPEAKER_01: there are so many stupid controversies regarding religion and regarding things
48:11
SPEAKER_01: that people say wrong.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying that this archbishop was not wrong because he was wrong.
48:21
SPEAKER_01: But it's also worth just stating that there's a lot of these little things
48:26
SPEAKER_01: that it's like, okay, You can just say it's wrong and move on.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: Like we don't have to get sucked into stupid controversies.
48:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: But at the same time, hanging out on Twitter.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: It's not good for our soul.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: That's pretty much what we do on Twitter.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: I know.
48:39
SPEAKER_01: This is why I say that I don't want clergy on Twitter because it's not good for our salvation.
48:47
SPEAKER_01: It's not.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: All right.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: That was a big old wet blanket to end on.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: Every once in a while is all right.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: All right.
48:55
SPEAKER_00: Bye-bye.