Latest / Early Edition with Ryan Bridge / Brooke van Velden: Minister in charge of Covid-19 inquiry on Chris Hipkins and Jacinda Ardern not appearing

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Brooke van Velden: Minister in charge of Covid-19 inquiry on Chris Hipkins and Jacinda Ardern not appearing · Early Edition with Ryan Bridge

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Just Sender Adourn Chris Hipkins won't be showing face at
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: the Royal Commission of Inquiry into COVID nineteen and now
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: they've decided to shut down the second week of public hearings.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Is basically they're no longer justified. Brook van Velden, minister
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: responsible for this inquiry, joins us. Now our good morning.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Minister, Good morning Ryan.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Can you change the terms of reference to force these
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: guys to turn up? Oh?
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Look, I'm not changing the terms of reference because it
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: is possible for the Commission to issue a legal summons
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: to them. However, I don't think it's really the fault
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: of the Commission that they've been forced into the situation
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: of needing to make that decision. It would have been
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: much easier if just under our Journ and Chris Hipkins
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: just do the right thing and turned up to the
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: public hearings. And so, you know, while there might be
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: some focus on the commissioners who have been forced into
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: this decision, this is really about the fact that Justinder
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Odourn and Chris Hipkins was very willing to stand publicly
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: every single day and make huge decisions on people's lives
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: quite publicly. But are unable to do that or unwilling
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: to do that. Now, I think that's quite confusing for
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: many members of the public who are still feeling the
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: effects of the COVID lockdown.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: It is including Richard who says, yeah, I'm completely flabbergasted
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: by this. They should be forced to be called as witnesses.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: This is a COVID nineteen Royal commission and inquiry. Why
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't the government force them? You know you could do that,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: couldn't you, Brook? So why not?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Well, we cannot as the government force their commission to
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: do any particular thing. It is an independent inquiry, and
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: that's really important because all Royal commissions are independent. My
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: belief is that the terms of reference does allow the
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: commissioners to use a summons if they would wish. However,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: what they have described in their public minute and in
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: conversations with me is the difficulty of you know, the
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: terms of reference for this commission is not to try
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: and find blame or act like a court of law.
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: It is to be a fact finding mission to enhance
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: public confidence so that we have better plans for the
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: future of the pandemic. Ever happened now, The difficulty that
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: the regis and there I don and crecipns have put
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  Speaker 2: the commissions in is if they are forced to issue
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: legal summons, is then obviously it becomes adversarial and legalistic,
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: and I think that's a real shame that they've been
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: forced into the situation.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Which is that this is the problem right elling With
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: has said that it is our opinion that the use
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: of summons is to achieve their participation into public hearing
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: would be legalistic and adversarial, which our terms of reference prohibit.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So the problem is the terms of reference. I mean,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: either you want them and it's important for them to
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: be the publicly facing up or it's not.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I think this is really focusing too much on,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: you know, the commissioners and the decision that they're needing
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: to land at, Whereas we would never be in this
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: situation if they just did what the commission had asked.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: And I think the difficulty that the commissioners are in
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: is if they are forcing and using a legal summons,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: what is it going to be like in the actual
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: public hearing. Is it going to be a fact finding
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: mission or is it going to be legalist? Is it
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: going to be adversarial? Is it becoming a blame finding
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: a mission where the public hearing may not actually get
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: what it deserves. And I think that's the real difficulty
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: of forcing somebody to appear. Crissipkins really should just do
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: the right thing, appear in public like he did every
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: single day at the one pm briefings. And I think
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: the real question is why is it that they are
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: willing to give the commission information in private but not
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: in public like they did during the COVID lockdown.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: Brook, appreciate your time this morning. Brook van Velden is
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: the Minister in charge of the COVID nineteen inquiry. For
• 4:07
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• 4:10
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• 4:13
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