Latest / Bottom Line on Sports / Pricy Knicks Tickets, Jalen Brunson's Value, Fernando Tatis Deal, College Football Revenue and OSU

Transcript

Pricy Knicks Tickets, Jalen Brunson's Value, Fernando Tatis Deal, College Football Revenue and OSU · Bottom Line on Sports

0:05
SPEAKER_00: What's up everybody?
0:07
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of the bottom line on sports.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: He's Jeremy Pink.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm Jean-Jacques Taylor, and this is our show about the intersection between sports and money.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: Now, before we get too deep, make sure subscribe, rate, review.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Don't leave us out here hanging like a bunch of bums.
0:23
SPEAKER_00: Take care of us.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: And on that note, uh, you know, we like to start every show with a number.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: And since Jeremy's in New York, this number seems especially apropos 3,297.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: That, my friends, is a price just to get in the door in Madison Square Garden, I think, for the Knicks game.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: Game three.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: Game three will be the first home game for the Knicks.
0:51
SPEAKER_01: Three grand just to get in.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Pretty remarkable.
0:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, you know what's amazing?
0:55
SPEAKER_01: I had this theory.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: It's not even a theory, it's probably the truth.
0:58
SPEAKER_01: Is that if you watch the Cavalier series where the Knicks won games three and four of that series, there are a huge number of Knicks fans there.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Right.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Think about it.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: If you fly from New York to Cleveland, buy a ticket in Cleveland, buy a hotel room, probably will cost you far less than it will cost you to go to game three in New York.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Check this out.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: I have several friends of mine.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Several.
1:22
SPEAKER_01: You have several friends?
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not just that, but there's Oh wow.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, sorry.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: So there's more than that.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: But they're Knicks fans.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh longtime Knicks fans because they grew up in New York or whatever.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: And um, my one of my best friends is a Knicks fan, and we talked two weeks ago.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: I was like, dude, if the Knicks get to the finals, because we're in Dallas, Oklahoma City's a three-hour drive.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: How about this?
1:47
SPEAKER_00: Oklahoma City's a three-hour drive, San Antonio's a four and a half, five-hour drive.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, I said, we should go.
1:54
SPEAKER_00: I said, we should just get a ticket, drive to the game, and go.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: And so uh, and then the more I thought about it, I'm like, you know what?
2:02
SPEAKER_00: I bet the Knicks fans are gonna try to come down here and take over those.
2:06
SPEAKER_01: Right, absolutely.
2:07
SPEAKER_00: And so, because I was saying, because we can go, because we got airline hotel points and stuff, we can probably make it fairly cost effective.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: And so that raised the question how much would you pay for a ticket?
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Now, I told him to try proper channels because he's a former reporter covering the NBA.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I did this many, many years ago when my son was a huge Kevin Durant fan.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because I was reporter, I called the NBA and said, Hey, I covered the Cowboys, da da da, can I get two tickets at face value for the finals?
2:39
SPEAKER_00: I think when they played LeBron.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: And uh Oh, in 2011.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
2:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so my dude was like seven or eight that year.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we got that, but I don't know that you'll be able to do that with the Knicks because they're such a popular team.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: So, how much would you pay to go watch the Knicks play?
2:57
SPEAKER_01: How much would I pay?
3:00
SPEAKER_00: If if you were going to pay.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: If I was gonna pay.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: It all depends on the seats.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I would probably pay probably for the experience, I'd pay$500.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: Probably.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: How about you?
3:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying, can we equate it to football or no?
3:19
SPEAKER_01: You can it's our show, you can do whatever you want.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm trying to think, like, I would probably have paid probably about a thousand dollars if I had seats where I could see the game, uh, to watch the buckeyes play.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: For the national championship to watch a buckeyes play.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would pay.
3:38
SPEAKER_01: I'd pay I if I got seats that I could actually see the game, I'd pay, I'd pay a grand for that easily.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: Easily.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: I probably wouldn't pay, I'd probably cut it off at$1,500.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Just because at some point I go, okay, I got a great TV at home.
3:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but there's something, as you know, you know, covering, you know, I I used to do I used to do a lot of live sporting events.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: You of course covered a lot of live sporting events.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: There's something great about being at a live event that you just obviously can't capture a TV.
4:07
SPEAKER_01: But I'm so used to not paying for going to any event that it's still hard for me to pay to go to events.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: That that too is a problem for me now.
4:14
SPEAKER_01: It's crazy, right?
4:15
SPEAKER_00: Now, I will tell you this, uh, because you raised an interesting point.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: When you say there's something about being there, I can I can literally still remember.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: I've covered hundreds of Cowboys games.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, literally.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: I can still remember, I still think to this day, it was never louder than the 1993 NFC Championship game against San Francisco before the game.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: It was insane.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: That was that was that that was in San Francisco or in Dallas?
4:46
SPEAKER_00: No, that was in Dallas.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Um insane.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Um but you know, last week, now that I'm revealing something you probably don't know.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm a uh I'm a Buffalo Sabres fan.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I know I did I knew that because you you grew up in part partially grew up in Buffalo, yeah.
5:07
SPEAKER_00: So I can't remember if we talked about this.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Dude, I was trying to figure out.
5:11
SPEAKER_00: I could never make it happen from a time perspective, but I did the math just because it felt good to do the math.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: I was like, how much would it cost me to go watch the Sabres and Canadians in game six in Buffalo?
5:28
SPEAKER_00: Because I stayed at my dad's house and I came up with$1,900.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: And I said, if I didn't, if I wasn't working on this book project, I would do that because you know, the Canadians being in Original Six, Buffalo having stunk for the last 20 years.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: It's a remarkable series, yeah.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: And it was great hockey, and the the both arenas were jumping.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I would pay.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: And I matter of fact, I looked up tickets.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: I said, I can get a ticket, a good ticket, for$700.
6:09
SPEAKER_00: I said, for that experience, I would do that because I'm only gonna do it once.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh anyway, so yeah, it's it's funny when you when you look at it because some some atmospheres are just just wild.
6:21
SPEAKER_00: Like when the Mavericks were on their championship run a couple years, seems like like a decade ago, it was just two years ago.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh I had a season ticket consortium, so I went to a couple games, and uh, you know, obviously the deeper they got, it rented just became electric.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: And then they're playing Oklahoma City and the games were closed.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: And so um, you know, so I guess the next question is what's uh you haven't been to the city in the last week or so, or have you?
6:50
SPEAKER_01: I have, I have.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh so can you feel the Nick the crazy crazy?
6:54
SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
6:55
SPEAKER_01: In fact, I'm gonna be at uh I'm at a wedding in New York.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I live two minutes from New York, so I'm in and out.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm in and out all the time.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh I'm gonna be in a wedding in New York this weekend, and it's it's it's a bunch of events over two days, and it's gonna be insane.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's gonna be insane.
7:15
SPEAKER_01: Everybody I talk to, that's all they talk about are the Knicks.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing too is that New York is like Dallas is a football town, right?
7:25
SPEAKER_01: And New York is, I'd say New York is basket.
7:30
SPEAKER_01: It's either a Knicks town or a Yankee town, but but but it's probably more of a basketball town than anything else.
7:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and so it's a big deal here, you know.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: I know it's uh it's huge.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: Um matter of fact, um, you could feel the energy at the uh at the garden the other day, even through the TV.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you can just feel it.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: And so uh I think it'd be fun.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: Um those seats, we talked about 3,200 to get in.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: What do you think the most it'll go for?
8:00
SPEAKER_00: Because it'll come out.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, somebody will pay 100k.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's what well I I've heard numbers of uh the USA Today article that I read today in the last few hours was putting the most expensive seats at between 75 and 85.
8:14
SPEAKER_01: I've heard quartzide seats, and again, it's all speculation right now.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: It's all uh what's real or not.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: I've heard quartzide seats are at over 100,000, like 105.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, I believe that because the people that the people that could afford that, there ain't no difference between 85 and 120.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, and you also look at what happened with the 76ers, because you know, Philadelphia is like an hour and a half drive from New York, or you know, you can actually take a train directly from New York into to Philly and go to the game easily.
8:44
SPEAKER_01: Those all New York fans, so it's so much less expensive to go from New York or from you know, yeah, you know, you know, northern New Jersey or wherever you're from to go to go to a uh a Knicks game and watch them, you know, in Philadelphia.
8:57
SPEAKER_01: Those were all Knicks fans there.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: No, I think it's uh I didn't re I haven't really felt it because the Knicks have been have been up and down over the years, but uh I think I I've now come to the realization I I think it's uh it's like the Cowboys and some other teams, it's good for the league when the Knicks are relevant.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: It's great for the league at the highest level, not just pretty good, but really good.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so so let me ask you a question.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Jalen Brunson.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: Yes, ex-Dallas Maverick, yes, Luka Doncic, ex-Dallas Maverick.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: If you could take one back today, who do you take?
9:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, that's a good question.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: I still take Luka Doncic because he's Luka Doncic.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: He's a basketball magician.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, Mary.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: You had to think about it, and you never thought you would think about it.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: No, I didn't, but you know what?
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Here's what's interesting.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh and it was uh Luka Doncic, so it's probably I don't know, Jalen Brunson's third year, maybe.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I can't, the years kind of go.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: But Luka Doncic got hurt in the playoffs, and Jalen Brunson moved into the starting lineup because he's a point guard, and he was averaging like 20 points a game during the playoffs.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: He was great in that he was that was like four or five years ago now.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: He was great.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, the problem with him, and you can tell from the Knicks game, and so the reason I don't give the Mavericks a lot of grief for it, yeah, they should have got something for him, but nobody knew, even when they let him go, that Jalen Brunson was gonna become what he became.
10:38
SPEAKER_00: But you can't have Jalen Brunson and Luka Doncic on the same team.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: That I agree with.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: They're the same player, and they're not the same player, they they're the same, they're super bowl dominant.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: You can't have them on the same team.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not going to work, so don't say, oh, the Mavericks.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: No, it was never going to work.
10:56
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Now, should they have gotten something for him?
11:00
SPEAKER_00: But again, nobody knew he was going to be this guy.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Look, look, he was he was he was a second round pick, if I remember correctly.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: He didn't really play that much for the first couple of years.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh and I think the playoffs that was just coming out part.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say that was a breakout.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he he was he was playing well in the playoffs were a breakout, and you know, I remember when the Knicks signed him because they were the Knicks were to it looked like the Knicks were gonna sign Donovan Mitchell, right?
11:26
SPEAKER_01: And then they ended up signing Brunson, and the vast majority of opinion was what are the Knicks doing?
11:32
SPEAKER_01: Why would they sign this guy?
11:34
SPEAKER_01: He's not worth that amount of money.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: He's not in the same class as Donovan Mitchell.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, turns out they were right because it seems like he's better than Donovan Mitchell.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, you know, I think this is about sports um in general, um, and you can never predict it.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: And there's always the intangible of a dude's heart, a dude's mental ability, his mental toughness, and his ability, and you know, and just his grind nature to make himself a better player, and but you can never measure those things, and because they don't show up on charts and tests, yeah.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: It's just you know, man's will to get better.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: And I talk to my my son about this sometimes because uh we'll be talking about something, and I go, dude, do you know how many hours I studied interviewing just because I was watching videos about how to interview and how to phrase questions, how to do this, to elicit answers that are better than us?
12:32
SPEAKER_00: I was like, that's not normal, man.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: But that's the type of commitment I personally had to be the best I could be at what I do.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: Of course, you translate the same thing to you, whether it's business or you know, whether it's basketball or whatever, people who are highly successful at their particular deal, at some point you go back and and they'll be except for Jeremy, because he never studied for any tests, which uh right, but you know, I mean, at some point you'll find them doing different things than their peers and their colleagues.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: But you know, it's it's funny.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: There's uh a guy, he's relatively prominent podcaster, uh, NYU, a New York University professor, guy named Scott Galloway, and he has a line which I mean, I'm I'm I I listen to him sometimes.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: He's he's you know very well known, pretty accomplished.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: He talks uh on a lot of different topics.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: But one thing he said kind of resonated with me a while ago, which was he said, talk to any successful person, and I'll show you somebody who is miserable in their 20s.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: Meaning that that's when you had to grind it out, that's when you had to do what you did, which is you know, do your interviewing technique, figure out how you're gonna get better, figure out how you're gonna distance yourself from your peers.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: But you can't do that when you're 40.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: You need to do that as you're starting your career out because you need to create that separation.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Matter of fact, I just told my son, I was talking to him about something he's really good at, and I said, Now that you've identified that you're really good at this, you got to lean into it.
14:02
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
14:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: And really, you know, um what do you call it, put yourself in uncomfortable situations in that particular area and really grow and learn to dominate that particular area.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: Because uh, in this particular thing I'm talking about, some some uh somebody he was talking to on campus told him, Oh, you're really good at this.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: And I said, See, you probably thought I was going to smoke up your butt.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: But I can recognize that you got a gift and a talent for this particular skill, and so you need to lean into it and uh take advantage of it.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, don't don't follow your passion.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: It's the dumbest advice you can get.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Do figure out what you're good at, and then do what you're good at, and chances are, you know, it may not be the most exciting thing in the world, but chances are you only have to probably be in the top 10% of the people uh in that particular area, and you're gonna do just fine.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: If you follow your passion, you're never gonna be 6'7, 6'8.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: One more thing on Jalen Brunson is you're right, you can't, there are no measurables for a lot of things that he has uh that he's accomplished.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: There is one measurable, which is that he's 6'1, he's about my height.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And there's never been a player of that size in modern NBA history who's been the dominant player on a team that's won the NBA title.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: That's the only thing that concerns me right now.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, Iverson took the Sixers to an NBA final, but it's guys are always 6'5, 6'6, 6'7, 6'8.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what what's what about uh Isaiah Thomas?
15:37
SPEAKER_01: I so yeah, I okay, Isaiah Thomas, but I'm saying modern.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, okay, in the last, okay, yes, once and maybe Isaiah was the last one, probably.
15:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: And I think, I think um, you know, I forget uh her name, Becky, who used to coach uh oh Becky Hammond?
15:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, she's taking a lot of grief about what she said about uh Jalen Brunson, which is basically what we're talking about, which is you need a dude, but you need a bigger dude than 6'1.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: And so now she's getting a lot of grief.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: And the problem with that is she's right.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: Now, Jalen might just be the one outlier.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: He might be.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: He might be.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but yeah, I don't think you're going to see a situation where now there's gonna be a bunch of six-foot point guards being drafted number two overall and number one overall.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: But he's a fantastic player, and he's figured out you know, his success.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I don't watch the Knicks that much, but his six I'll be able to watch them next year because they'll be on every every game.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, they're gonna be on constantly next year.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's figured out how to get his get in the lane and hit that floater from just inside the free throw line.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: So that's his thing.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: And he's got a million ways to get there.
16:50
SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's that's his deal, that's his superpower.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's great.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's a great floater from yeah, he's a very awkward player, too.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: So that's what I mean.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: He's just there can always be an outlier, you know.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Agreed, agreed, and it's kind of like you know, not to belabor this topic, but it's kind of like looking at quarterbacks.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can you can be a good quarterback, but chances are you need to be 6'3, 6'4, 220 in order to survive and be really good long term.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, Peyton Manning's huge.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Tom Brady is, you know, Tom Brady's 6'5, Peyton Manning 6'5 and huge.
17:23
SPEAKER_01: Drew Brees may be the outlier, but again, look at Drew Brees.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: You you you Drew Brees, you had to build an entire team around.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: This is uh this is what Bill Parcell's told me when he was coaching the Cowboys.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because we were talking about Dat Wynn, who was a 5'11, 230 Vietnamese linebacker.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I I remember, yeah, I remember it.
17:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: And he said he called Dat Wynn a football playing dude.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: And he said he's an outlier because Parcell is like 6'2, 250 linebackers.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: He said, so you can have a because so here's what he said he said you can have an outlier on your team.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: You cannot have a team of outliers, right?
18:06
SPEAKER_00: And that's that's the whole point.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you can have Jalen Brunson on your team, but you can't have a bunch of dudes that are 6'1 or 6'5 and think you're going to win.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's uh so yeah, so we'll we'll see whether it's uh San Antonio or or okay, see who plays them.
18:25
SPEAKER_01: But I think I would not have thought the Knicks had a chance before uh the playoffs started.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: I think they would they'll have a chance against both both teams.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, now my friend who's a huge Knicks fan, we talked about that today.
18:36
SPEAKER_00: And I said uh I think the Knicks are playing at such a level that they're better they're playing better than they really are right now.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: I agree with that, which is all you have to do to win a championship, you know, 2011 Mavericks.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say the same thing, yeah.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: But they locked it in at a certain point and they became better than they really were for a period of time, uh, because it's just what we're talking about.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: You can start to feel a certain confidence and a certain belief in yourself that doesn't make sense to the outside because you're just so locked in on what you're doing.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, as professionals, most of us go through a period of that level of just every every at some point in your career, every project you touched was like, Jeremy, this is the greatest thing we've ever seen.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: Right, right, right.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: You're like unfortunately for me, that period was about 10 days, but that's a different story, yeah.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: But but you're right, yeah, no, you're right.
19:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where the Knicks are, and it it's like it's you know, peaking at the right time.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's that that's you see that happen over and over and over again.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: So uh professional sports.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Bottom line for me, I wouldn't pay uh$3,200 to see the Knicks, but I would pay a thousand.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: Bottom line for me, anybody out there want to give me tickets, I'm happy to go.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: Now, this is uh this is a very interesting story to me.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh Fernando Tatis, San Diego Padre star, you know, his old man played in uh for Texas Rangers for several years.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
20:09
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: The biggest ears you'll ever see.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I used to talk about it, so it's you know, I'm not I'm not ear shaming him.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: They were they were were they Obama-esque?
20:20
SPEAKER_01: They were that size, they were that big?
20:21
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember that.
20:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh no, they were bigger than that.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you see him and you see his ears.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Right.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then you see the rest of them.
20:28
unknown: Right.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: But uh, that's neither here nor there.
20:30
SPEAKER_00: He was a solid major league player, his son's a superstar.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: And I found this interesting.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: His son signed a deal when he was like 19 or 20.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: 18, 18 is what I think 18 is what I read.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me tell you what he did.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: He basically signed a deal with a company that said, if you'll give me$2 million, I'll give you 10% of my future earnings.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Now, he probably thought I'd be in the big leagues and I'll be a good player, a really good player.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: He didn't think he'd be a$340 million player.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, you'd never do that.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: One of the interesting things, well, let me tell you the rest of this first.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: And so now he recently sued the company, uh, you know, claiming predatory tactics and coercion to sign a deal and uh went to court and they basically kicked it back and go, nah, bruh, you owe them 34 million.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, you're 18 years old, you signed a deal, you know.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: But it was interesting, man, and you tell me what you think, because his old man played baseball.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: So it's not like you grew up in poverty.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: And again, Fernando Tatis was good, and so he didn't make a hundred trillion dollars, but he made enough that I'm raising my kid to be a you know, and I'm a professional baseball player, so I make a good I make a very good living.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: So it seemed odd to me that he would sign that type he would allow his kid to sign that type of um that type of deal just because I don't think you had to do it, you know.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe their money was funny, and so the money went to help the family.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
21:58
SPEAKER_01: Who who know who knows?
21:59
SPEAKER_01: I I you if you're an 18 or it could have been the dad didn't know about it if you're an 18 year old that's presented with an option of here's two million bucks no strings attached here's two million well strings are the strings that are attached way out there yeah it's like oh my god I'm not gonna make you know that that's fine I'm you know who knows if I'm even gonna be a major league baseball player if I'm 18 I got two million guaranteed yeah I that's good for me right now um but again sometimes you know you make a you know I was working with one company and they had developed a type of a type of software a specialized type of software and in order to get the product off the ground they licensed the software in perpetuity to a major company right it turns out the software was incredibly valuable but they licensed it for free to this major company this major company used it for everything and used it internally and it became and it would have been one of their biggest customers by far.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Right but they said look you signed a deal that licenses software to us in perpetuity and when you signed it the reason you signed it is to say that we used it and we're using it and that's the deal and so that's different because that's company to company this you have to I don't know much about the organization who signed him but there's likely a we don't know if Tate said counsel or or an advisor but he's 18 years old he's an adult he signed it in the Dominican Republic um so who knows if there was some sort of predatory activity there but this would not have been an issue if he you know hurt himself and played major league baseball so I I don't know what I I think you got I think it's you got to accept it I think yeah I don't think it's a like you know I think it's just the cost of doing business it's to me it was no different than them investing in in some company where somebody says you know people who have money get it all the time hey what did I just read that Ashton Kutcher invested a million dollars in some AIS company or maybe it was more than that.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: He invested a lot of money.
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and now that thing five years ago now that thing's about to go public and they're like oh when it goes public he's going to be worth like you know eight billion dollars whatever whatever yeah yeah yeah and so the whole point of it is that's the risk you take whenever you invest in something that's right and so you know I was trying to think so if somebody came to you and said hey uh we we like uh your kid's potential in his field of choice um let's you know we'll give you uh eight hundred thousand dollars for his future earnings right to for 10 of his future earnings yeah yeah I mean I I I'd have to do the math because um if I said okay if I got eight hundred thousand dollars if if he could invest that you know in a you know some sort of retirement account or some sort of long-term account today and that return you know x percent over a period of time what would it turn into and I would say huh I I'd think about it because I would you could if you had the ability to invest it in a certain way and structure it so that the 18 year old couldn't access the money until he was you know 35 or whatever or there was some sort of trust behind it.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: I consider it how about you yeah yeah thank I'm you know what I've um you can appreciate this given your uh the way you went about uh your degrees and stuff I pretty much tell my son every every decision is a financial is a is a math equation like I literally tell him like everything's a math equation do the math and just figure out what the math looks like and you don't always have to take whatever the math says but at least you know the answer I would equate it now as we're both getting old it's like you hear you're bombarded these days once you reach a certain age should you take Social Security at 62 or should you take it at 70 yeah and where's the break even point is 76 and extend expected life is 80 and all this other stuff.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Which is funny to me uh but but the reality of it is everything to me is a math equation.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: So I would look at the math do the math talk with uh some kind of financial advisor and uh you know and make a make a prudent decision based on that.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Because you know it also depends.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: You know the interesting thing is like it would make to me well even now I was going to say before it might have made more sense to do that in football because the careers are so short and the money wasn't like it like it's starting to get yeah it wasn't guaranteed at all really.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Right.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: But in baseball the money if you're any just average is so big that um you know now again if you got a$340 million contract and you're making$34 million a year and you got to pay somebody three I don't know that it's it seems more like an annoyance than um then like it ain't hurting you financially.
27:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah I think I think that's the case it's it's interesting you say they're math problems.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: I had a professor in business school who used to say life is a series of constrained optimization problems.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: You know which is it sounds like a fancier way to say it.
27:42
SPEAKER_01: It is well yeah it it it is well you know that's that's why you know that's why you say it in business school rather than you know to to a normal human being um but it's true it's like you have to optimize every situation that you're in and you're not gonna there's going to be some constraints that you're gonna have to face and you have to deal with what what are those constraints and then figure out is it worthwhile doing or not you know well this all came up as a I take a very quick exit rant because my son you know when people are in college you're trying to teach them independence and I'm I'm your safety net but you you know I'm trying to teach you how to when when when you're an adult where you don't need a safety net and so a better way to say that is you just want to get AJ off payroll as soon as possible.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: That's really what you're saying.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's really what I'm saying.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I understand but to do that you got to understand how to live life and budget.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: And so it turns out that his part his job he works he basically makes a hundred dollars a day when he works that's what I go dude I go everything's a math equation for you like you know how much your rent is you know what your other little expenses are you got to work that many days a month and if you want to go somewhere do something you know this is it like he did he made a dumb decision a few weeks ago and I said was that really worth two and a half hours worth of work right exactly right right I go it wasn't he goes you're right it wasn't you know now send me that$250 and learn from this lesson uh because I think um if kids don't feel pain they just make the same stupid decisions so you know you gotta you gotta pay for it and feel that pain so you'll think about it.
29:19
SPEAKER_01: You gotta have skin in the game as I say absolutely but um that's what it is there you gotta have skin in the game you know it's why it's why a lot of companies will you know it's it's why often private equity company private equity investors will buy a company but ask the executives to also put their own money to invest in it as well.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah because they want to make sure that that you know that there's skin in the game that there's something you know that there's something on the line.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Bottom line for me I think this I think these businesses will actually pop up a little more often and I think people do it.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: I think they just need to make sure that you do the math and figure out if it makes sense um you know because it's as you said you can you can invest that money right off the rip and make it work for you.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah well bottom line for me on the on Tatis is that uh all things equal I there probably was some level of predatory activity toward him.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: So again it goes to protection of young athletes who probably are going to be worth money someday uh even though this was signed out of the Dominican Republic.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: I think those types of contracts you you also need I think to have a much like you when you buy real estate in certain when you buy a house in certain parts of of the United States you have to have an attorney with you.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: You need something similar to that for young athletes to sign contracts like these.
30:47
SPEAKER_00: You've been talking for quite a while about how the uh the Big Ten is pulling away from everybody else uh in terms of college athletics especially on the football tip.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: Well now we have evidence we do um you know and uh you sent me an article about the arms race and uh I guess the tax filings from last year came out in terms of how much the um the individual conferences were making into and I don't think the um I don't think the dollar figures are as important as the way you broke it down in terms of the big ten makes about twice as much revenue makes about 600 million dollars more revenue than the ACC yeah and they've kind of doubled up on the Big 12 yeah yeah and that but the other thing too I was looking at the numbers it make the Big 10 earned about 50 more revenue than the SEC so 1.67 billion to 1.1 billion 50 more was that 570 out of one point yeah roughly even more than 50 than the SEC that's remarkable and that's why you're starting to see it flip where the championships are starting to come of course from the big two from the Big Ten where the SEC had a great run when they were the only people paying people exorbitant amount of money.
32:07
SPEAKER_00: Now everybody can do it above board and so the Big Ten is just pulling away man now um I don't know that that's good because with that kind of money um uh that kind of difference in money you have so much power that it becomes all about you and what you want to do and then never it seems to me that none of these leagues or cottages are benevolent.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: It's all about me what's good for me screw everybody else and that can be a dangerous thought process because what did they say pigs get fed and hogs get slaughtered or something like that.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah right right you get too big and kill yourself right bulls bulls make money bears make money and pigs get slaughtered right that that's the thing we say on Wall Street yeah yeah so uh yeah I haven't I haven't heard that in a while uh what what's what's fascinating to me is that the it that it's moved this this quickly this fast this fast yeah that it is there's now a definitive gap also if you look at the all the talk around the 2014 playoff uh you find all basically all the conferences say they want it with the exception of the SEC right and but if but there's articles that I had come out and stuff that I had read that basically said no actually the SEC coaches and individual schools want it but the conference itself doesn't want it and that's uh so I think ultimately you know it's gonna where this moves is is where the power moves.
33:52
SPEAKER_01: Does a power move on a conference by conference basis?
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Does a power move on a team by team basis?
33:58
SPEAKER_01: Or is it a combination of both?
34:00
SPEAKER_01: And I think where the power has moved right now it's power is with the conferences but the bigger schools are having the most power and those are in the Big 10 right now.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: So I think whether it shifts to a school kind of power base or it shifts to a conference or remains in a conference power base, I still see the Big Ten, at least for the foreseeable future, uh essentially outspending and out earning its rivals.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: Well you know it's um once you do that and once you start down this road and you have the championships and the banners to hang next to your winning then people are already going to come to your school anyway.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Now you just give them more incentive to come and then when you keep it within the conference then it becomes oh well if you're not going to win it unless you're competing at the absolute highest level and that will help you take the next step to your professional career which everyone shows up thinking that that's what they can do.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: And so it becomes I think the gap just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and then when these TV deals are up you throw in another uh you know big cash thing because oh we've got you know X amount of champions in a row from our conference so our the money that you give us needs to be bigger and um you know it's uh it's an it's an interesting time for college sports.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah and there's like legislation that's trying to figure out you know how to take some action on this to limit player portable player movement uh thinking about salary caps I don't think any of that's gonna come come uh to fruition for that given the way it's set up yeah you know yeah so so I don't I don't know how I don't know how it ends or how it moves right now because it's theoretically it's unsustainable because the the amount of the the cost of the players is going up up up without a cap.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: Uh theoretically it's unsustainable but it might not be.
35:58
SPEAKER_01: You know they said the same thing about sports rights.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: Sports rights will never continue to move higher and higher and higher they've moved higher and higher and higher every year.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: Well here's the uh if if you open up that that door it's interesting I I heard or read something recently that said the danger in this in the rights number getting higher and higher and higher is that the media companies can't afford it NBC ABC SPN that's true and then what happens is you'll get the Amazons or the Netflix which are already involved but because you're not their number one thing they're not beholden to you and at some point they can say well we make movies we just do this on the side and so they can then lock you into a a checkmate kind of thing where you're kind of stuck because you overpriced for the media companies and these other people that you brought in because their money was so big, you're always just a side side dude a side dudette to them.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and I think that's one of the core issues that that's the fear and that's one of the core issues around uh you know discussions with the NFL about whether the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 which essentially allows essentially there's a number of things that it it it dictates but one of the things that it really talks about is it anticipates that the reason they got that antitrust exemption exemption to negotiate as the as a leak is because the games were going on public airways on broadcast television.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: If that's removed and and there aren't enough games on the public airways then you might see uh the NFL not to have the ability to negotiate as one entity and then that will be a whole other mess.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: So you know Can you imagine Jerry Jones and the Cowboys negotiating their own deal?
37:45
SPEAKER_01: Right well look the Notre Dame's done the same thing already in college right now.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: Well how does that work with the Yes Network and the Yankees haven't they kind of done that yes sort of sort of I you know it's that that's a little that's a little bit different.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: I I think the the better analogy is Notre Dame just because Notre Dame is essentially an ACC team they have a roughly an ACC schedule but they negotiate their television contract separately and they have negotiated the their the their place in the college football playoffs separately so they're acting independently even though they are kind of part of the kind of part of the ACC.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: Let me tell you this on May 27th 2026 there's no doubt in my mind and I'd bet you all the money in my 401k not a lot that the Cowboys I that I doubt but go ahead yeah the Cowboys will be the first team to try that no question Jerry tried that well or Jerry tried that with with uh like what concessions and with well he's already he's literally already done it with the marketing like there's marketing right yeah there's their whole marketing deal is separate yeah uh and Jerry's whole thing was I don't know that he used the Bengals specifically but he's like some of these teams they're happy with the 132nd share so they don't do any work we don't we don't operate like that we're trying to maximize whatever we can do why should we you know pay them that up so we just want we we don't want nothing from you we're good let's just do our thing over here and then they made you know 17 trillion dollars so so what I think is going to happen is there's gonna be ultimately and this is happening already ultimately there's going to be the equivalent of an NFC and an AFC in college you know college football meaning that you may have 40 40 teams or 30 teams in conference one 30 teams in conference two let's say that's 60 teams and then of those teams you know X number will 24 of them will make the playoffs you know and that's it's it's gonna ultimately work like that uh that's where it's ultimately gonna land which to me makes me believe that the power is ultimately going to start to rest with the individual schools.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: That makes sense they got the brand yeah yeah and I think yeah people are gonna follow Ohio State or or Florida or whatever school because that's their school and I they're sort of indifferent toward whether or not yeah schools that have changed conferences.
40:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah you follow them because that's your school not because whatever conference they're in do you think anyone has any allegiance to the Pac 12 or the Pac 2 or the Pac 10 from you know USC or Oregon best move that they made was getting into one of these super conferences.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah uh bottom line for me is uh this thing's going crazy but the Big Ten is pulling away and there's no stopping them it seems like to me they're going to be the most powerful conference and the most powerful schools uh in college sports yeah but bottom line for me the bigger the school or the bigger the alumni the wealthier the alumni base the better that ultimately from a from a long-term perspective that better that school's gonna do on the college football field our favorite part of the show is always the Ohio State conversation and uh I had this revelation earlier today we signed some linebacker who's a top hundred player supposed to be like the sixth best linebacker in the country I don't even know his name I don't really care uh and here's the reason why I used now I was never that dude who would say oh these are the recruits we gotta have this year Jeremy but I used to kind of follow him you know if it's down between uh this this kid kid A is either going to Ohio State or Alabama okay must be a good player Alabama wants him hopefully uh you know uh whoever whatever position he plays that'll be the key while we get him da da da da da da but now since everything is so transactional I don't even care really because he's not coming to Ohio State necessarily because of the coaching staff or the players or this or that he's coming because we cut him a check for a million dollars and Alabama said hey kid we love you but we can't go any higher than 900 000 and so you know and I'm not mad at it it's the uh transactional nature of uh that's what that's what college football is yeah yeah uh but what happens is I no longer pay attention to recruiting because you're not really recruiting you're just paying it's like free agency and so for whatever reason I'm just not invested in it because it has nothing to do with your school it's all about how big a check you wrote them.
42:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah right I mean you you look at that with uh who AJ DeVanza who's gonna be the number one pick in the NBA draft BYU cut him a huge check so he went there he's still gonna be the number one pick in the NBA draft it doesn't matter if he's like BYU or Kentucky or Duke he's he's gonna be the number one pick in the draft.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: And it it is it's very transactional in nature and it's why I think the head coach or the equivalent of the general manager position something they have different names for him in in each school the whoever is ultimately the talent evaluators that's where the real value is going to be I think in college football because it is yes you're gonna have to recruit top players there's no question but you're also gonna have to look at the smaller schools to say oh my God this is a kid who's developed or this kid can play or this kid was overlooked.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's who can do that the best as well.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: And that's it's that's going to be that's that's going to change the nature of uh college football and it's gonna change the nature and that's gonna be very tough for schools like Ohio State and Alabama who are just traditionally had a pipeline to the best players no matter what.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Oh dude I think it's already here like you know it's funny I can't remember you know or you say what you thought when it came out to oh you can pay players now I think The immediate reaction was, oh my God, Alabama and Ohio State are gonna, and you know, Michigan, they're gonna Texas, they're gonna pay everybody, and they'll just have these super duper teams.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: Is really quite the opposite, which is I ain't gonna just go sit on the bench and two, I go start over here.
44:15
SPEAKER_03: Right.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think it has clearly spread everything out, and there's more talent spread out.
44:22
SPEAKER_00: And now people aren't people aren't gonna sit around and wait their turn to play 90% of the time.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: Now you'll always find one or two who will, but most of them are like, nah, man, I'm not sitting around.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna go kick this check over here and uh go play.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: But but it also means that injuries play a much greater role in college football than they ever did before.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: Because I can recall the years when Ohio State would have an injury, and you would just look down the you'd look down the bench and go, okay, they have three guys who are going to replace this offensive tackle who could probably start at you know five different top 25 schools.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: So they're gonna be okay.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: The depth isn't there now, and that's a huge, that's a huge difference in college football these days, right?
45:05
SPEAKER_01: And that's a huge difference for particularly a school, some of these SEC schools who stacked players, they can't do that anymore because they can't afford it.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's changed the dynamic of college football.
45:18
SPEAKER_01: And it also has you know, if if you have a great talent evaluator and you're able to bring in talent at a much lower cost, but much more effective than some of the bigger schools like the Ohio States of the world, you're gonna be competitive.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: That's what traditionally that's what TCU has done.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: And uh that's what I think if if Indiana stays relevant, and this is not just an outlier year, it'll be because of that.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: That Signetti, because of his ability to talent evaluate, can keep a certain level of player and they can actually develop them because they'll say we'll develop you, and you don't have to go, you don't have to start somewhere and come here, we'll develop you, and then you just stay.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Um you know, so it'll be interesting to see how that works out.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh the other thing for for Indiana is one reason they've had success has been uh their staff continuity.
46:11
SPEAKER_00: And so, but if they put together another, they don't have to win another national championship, but if they go 11-2, 11-1, they win a couple of games in the playoffs, at some point his coordinators will get jobs.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: And then it becomes, okay, now you got now you got to really replace guys, and you know, that's when it becomes hard.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: When your coordinators start leaving on a regular basis, uh because your team's been successful, and you got to fill new bodies in.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you're going to hit, but a couple of times here and there you're going to miss.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: And then that's when your program takes a dip.
46:46
SPEAKER_01: I I think I understand.
46:48
SPEAKER_01: I I agree with that.
46:49
SPEAKER_01: I also think there's another trend that's emerging in college football right now, and that is yes, the quarterback was always the most important position.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:59
SPEAKER_01: But but there were some years like the Ohio State National Championship year back in, I don't know, I can't remember whatever it was, 2014 or 13 or whatever, with Cardell Jones, you know, replacing uh was it JT Barrett who got injured, whoever, whoever, or Bragg, I can't even remember anywhere, Braxton Miller.
47:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, you're not gonna see that anymore.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: Um and you're also gonna see that the importance of having a top quarterback is gonna be that much like the NFL, if you don't have a top quarterback in the NFL, you're not gonna win.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you could do that over the prior 50 years.
47:35
SPEAKER_01: You didn't have to have a top, top quarterback.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: You had to have an adequate enough quarterback because you had such an overwhelming talent advantage.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: That's out the window now.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: So, to me, the reason that Indiana won the national title is because they had one of the top five quarterbacks in the country next.
47:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh, if they don't have one of the top five quarterbacks, they're not gonna be a top uh, and then it's not a knock on Indiana.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: That's again, that's every school.
47:57
SPEAKER_00: That's everybody.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: No, no.
48:00
SPEAKER_00: So, bottom line for me, man, when it comes to Ohio State, I don't give two hoots about recruiting.
48:04
SPEAKER_00: I'll check and see what the roster looks like uh when it starts in September.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: But bottom line for me, I still think there's gonna be a contra quarterback controversy at Ohio State this year.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: That's what I think.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: All right.
48:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh hey, we appreciate you guys.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: Uh he's Jeremy Pink.
48:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm Jean-Jacques Taylor.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: This has been yet another episode of the bottom line on sports.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: We'll talk to you guys next week.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: All right, we'll see you next week.