Latest / Gunther Fehlinger Podcast / Oleg Magaletsky - Decolonizing Russia: The Only Path to European Security?

Transcript

Oleg Magaletsky - Decolonizing Russia: The Only Path to European Security? · Gunther Fehlinger Podcast

• 0:00
  Yep, perfect. I'm so happy to have my friend
• 0:04
  Oleg here tonight on the show on Paksa Ropiano.
• 0:07
  He's a very important gentleman. You will learn everything about
• 0:10
  him now very soon. Oleg, I'm so happy to have you.
• 0:13
  Thanks a lot. Can you introduce yourself bit
• 0:16
  to our audience? And thank you very much for
• 0:19
  sharing your insight and your stories with us this afternoon.
• 0:22
  Thanks a lot, Oleg. You're welcome.
• 0:25
  Hi, Hunter. Thank you for inviting me.
• 0:27
  My name is Olek Magaleski. I'm a founder of three Nation
• 0:30
  Post Russia forum platform. And I'm a great supporter of
• 0:35
  decolonization Russia even better say Moscow.
• 0:39
  Yeah, because it is the last colonial empire in Europe and we
• 0:42
  should be active together. I mean together, I mean united
• 0:49
  Europe. And it's not only the European
• 0:51
  Union. Yeah, it's mean they're all
• 0:53
  Europe, which include United Kingdom, which include
• 0:55
  Switzerland, Ukraine, Western Balkan countries who are not yet
• 1:00
  a part of European Union. To act proactive, to act
• 1:04
  offensive, to understand that we are already in the war.
• 1:07
  Not only my country Ukraine, but already whole Europe, because
• 1:10
  Moscowia want to destroy our continent, our unity, not only
• 1:16
  European but Euro Atlantic. And they are preparing to attack
• 1:22
  not only Ukraine but other European countries.
• 1:25
  They are on process to prepare attack in Baltic States and
• 1:30
  probably Scandinavia, Central European state.
• 1:32
  And they are working. Not only it's Russia, it's
• 1:36
  already the axis of dictatorship.
• 1:38
  I call it cringe axis. China, Russia, Iran, North Korea
• 1:42
  and here satellites like Venezuela regimes, Lukashenka,
• 1:47
  Vuchi and other. So they are already are on war
• 1:50
  against Europe, against United States and they wanted to act
• 1:54
  together with China, People Republic of China.
• 1:57
  They were preparing to attack Taiwan and probably Japan.
• 2:00
  And we should be ready for that and we should stop them now,
• 2:04
  because if we won't stop them now, other European country not
• 2:08
  on Ukraine will be warned. It will be a war on their land.
• 2:11
  So let's make new frontier of post Russia or you like to say X
• 2:16
  Russia and not new frontline in the Baltic states of
• 2:20
  Scandinaria. So it's my short intro.
• 2:23
  Thanks a lot. You are basically the spiritual
• 2:25
  father of the ex Russia movement, as I like to call it.
• 2:28
  And I'm very honored that you joined this show tonight.
• 2:30
  Yeah. Tell me, what was your
• 2:32
  inspirational moment, your transformational moment when you
• 2:36
  started to think it's time to ex Russia?
• 2:39
  You have to do it. You have to draw this map and
• 2:42
  you have to mobilize now. I think it's already 20 meetings
• 2:45
  where the opposition and the independence leaders of future
• 2:49
  ex Russia meet. When did this happened?
• 2:51
  What was your moment of decision to do that?
• 2:55
  You know, my country, I'm Ukrainian, Ukrainian citizens
• 2:58
  and we have the unfortunately long story to be a part of
• 3:03
  Russia or Romanovan Empire with the Sasso, which was always the
• 3:07
  Muscovia imperialistic states. It could have different name.
• 3:11
  Now it's so-called Russia Federation, but it's not real
• 3:14
  federation. It's classy a colonial empire.
• 3:17
  So my country was for 300 years a part of this empire, like
• 3:21
  other states who now independent Lithuania, Estonia, Finland,
• 3:26
  Poland. So we we know what is it to be a
• 3:28
  part of this empire and what to be independent.
• 3:31
  And we could understand these people who now live still under
• 3:35
  the Moscow colonial rule like Bashka, Tastan, Tatarstan, Saha,
• 3:39
  Buryatia, Karelia, Churchesia, Ingushetia, Ingria, Smalandi and
• 3:45
  so on. Because we, we have the same
• 3:48
  experience and we are. And for me was clear that even
• 3:52
  in 2014 when Russia or but is the Moscow started war against
• 3:56
  Ukraine and they occupied Crimea and they started big war on the
• 4:00
  eastern part of Ukraine in the Donetsk and Luganska Oblast.
• 4:05
  And then it was much more clear in 2022 that we don't have other
• 4:11
  choice to finish this war only in Moscow, because still Moscow
• 4:17
  have their colonies, they will come back.
• 4:20
  We could have some cheese fire, we could have some breaks, but
• 4:24
  still Moscow control the Siberia controls the Sakhar Boschkert
• 4:29
  and terrorist and they will have resources to finance this war
• 4:32
  and they will have the people which they use like a meat to
• 4:35
  throw them. Now in Ukraine, it was before in
• 4:38
  Syria, in Sakharova or Georgia, like you know the state, it was
• 4:42
  in each carrier in early nineteens and they wanted to
• 4:46
  continue it in Germany, Austria, Baltic states, Finland.
• 4:51
  And they speak this openly. If you could look for some
• 4:55
  videos with Midway, Nareshkin, Patrichev, Kadero and others,
• 5:00
  they say that we want, we wanted to repeat.
• 5:03
  Yes, they wanted to go to the Europe and make the new iron
• 5:06
  cotton. So they are says openly.
• 5:10
  We know that they wanted to do it and I understand that we
• 5:12
  don't have other choice. And it's paradox because the
• 5:16
  freedom of my country, freedom of my continent, Europe is
• 5:19
  depends of will people who wanted to enslave us, who are
• 5:24
  used by Moscow to enslave us, to become free.
• 5:27
  If Bashkak, Tastan, Tatastan, Siberia, Ingria Oral Far Far
• 5:31
  East Republic School Republic will become independent, so
• 5:34
  which means that we don't have the streets of Moscowia
• 5:38
  Revenge's military and colonialism.
• 5:41
  So we should help to this nation's captive nation because
• 5:45
  it's not minority. You know, Moscow propaganda also
• 5:50
  like to use this vocabulary about some minorities.
• 5:53
  No people Bashkov's people in Bosch Kardasan is not minority,
• 5:56
  it's captive nation. Saha people in Saha or Moscow
• 6:00
  people say Yakuta, it's not minority, it's captive nation.
• 6:03
  And to have even this bill, so it's not just my some wishful
• 6:08
  thinking or dream. We have bill which was elected
• 6:14
  seen by the President Eisenhower, true Republican
• 6:18
  president, Yeah, and good Republican, great old party.
• 6:22
  Not like we have this crazy MAGA now.
• 6:25
  And it was rolled by Congress in, as far as remember, in 19,
• 6:30
  57. So where was captive nation on
• 6:34
  that time? Captive nation was not only
• 6:37
  Poles, Ukrainian and Estonia and Lithuania, but also Hungary and
• 6:41
  Czech people, also people in Eastern Turkistan.
• 6:45
  So we're good people. Also there was mentioned people
• 6:48
  in the oral region, so Bashkourz, Tatars, Kazakhs
• 6:52
  people. So we even have this law and we
• 6:55
  should know that people who are also still under the Moscow
• 6:59
  colonial rule, it's not minorities, is it not only
• 7:02
  ingenious people, it's captivation because they have
• 7:05
  their political subjectivity. They have their own states in in
• 7:11
  past and we'll have it in future.
• 7:13
  Because now it just occupied like for example, Jichen
• 7:16
  Republic of each carrier. It was never part of Russian
• 7:20
  Federation. They think, never think any
• 7:23
  agreement with Russia. So they become a defense from
• 7:26
  the USSR and Russia. Such big call.
• 7:30
  The democratic Boris Yeltsin started a war against
• 7:33
  independent states. Of course, of course it wasn't
• 7:36
  recognized, but all war world, but it was independent and we
• 7:40
  should recognize Chechen Republic of each carrier in
• 7:43
  whole world. Also.
• 7:44
  I hope it will be recognized not only in Ukraine, in my country,
• 7:47
  but also in different European Union countries soon, and we
• 7:51
  hope also in Austria. Absolutely, absolutely.
• 7:54
  Just to explain again, Ukraine has already recognized
• 7:58
  Chechenya. So we already have in our
• 8:01
  Parliament bill, Yeah, it was voting in 2022.
• 8:07
  We recognise the China public official care like occupied it
• 8:10
  land and country by Russia. Very good is the example for the
• 8:15
  whole world and absolutely Chechenya must be recognised.
• 8:18
  They also have, for example, exile.
• 8:20
  Government is already very developed.
• 8:23
  They also part of your movement. Yeah, you know, free nation post
• 8:28
  Russia forum, it's not organization, it's a platform.
• 8:31
  So we try to help to make voices of captive nation and their
• 8:35
  movements in exile, for example to Chen Republic of each carrier
• 8:39
  movement exile or Tatarstan movement in exile or other
• 8:43
  movements louder in Western countries, in European Union
• 8:48
  auto in United States and Canada and also in other free world
• 8:52
  countries like Japan, Taiwan or Australia.
• 8:56
  Because Russia propaganda is very successful, they sell for
• 8:59
  whole world that territory from Koninsberg which never was part
• 9:05
  of this empire before 1945. You know Koninsberg now called
• 9:10
  this Kaliningrad. Before it was Crawley W
• 9:13
  Koninsberg Corolla, which is always E Prussia or Baltic
• 9:17
  ancient city where Kant was born till occupied Karafuta which was
• 9:22
  a Japanese land and still occupied it.
• 9:24
  Now that it is one United Russia there is no other nation nor
• 9:29
  other people. Then it is the same, but this
• 9:32
  territory there is 17,1,000,000 kilometers, it's more than all
• 9:37
  South America, for example. So of course there is different
• 9:42
  nation, different people. And even if people speak Russian
• 9:45
  on these lines, they are not the same.
• 9:47
  Because people in Moscow, people in Saint Peterburg region, in
• 9:51
  Korea is the future independent states, by the way, very
• 9:54
  important one. And people in Siberia, Ural and
• 9:58
  Pacific Federation future in Habaros, they are totally
• 10:02
  different, totally different. It's not like a people either
• 10:05
  who speak in Spain by the Spanish language, for example,
• 10:09
  in Mexico or Argentina or Chile or Colombia.
• 10:12
  They're also different. Of course, they could speak
• 10:15
  Spanish, they could be Catholic, they could have some the same
• 10:19
  culture program, but they're different because different
• 10:21
  nation and the same situation will be on the post Russia or X
• 10:25
  Russia spaces. Because it's not about the
• 10:28
  language, you know, you're Austrian people, you speak
• 10:31
  German language, but Austrian people and German people is
• 10:34
  different people. And people for example, who
• 10:36
  speak German in Zurich or Brazil, they are different from
• 10:40
  people who speak German language in Munich or, or in Vienna.
• 10:43
  So it's very important to understand that Russian language
• 10:47
  not depends that it not means that the people are the same.
• 10:51
  And we will see on the post Russia spaces or X Russia
• 10:55
  spaces, the same situation, for example, which was with Arabic
• 10:58
  people. You know, when it was Ottoman
• 11:00
  Empire, there was a lot of Arabic people who live in North
• 11:04
  Africa, in Middle East. But now we don't have one Arabic
• 11:07
  state. We have Egypt, we have, for
• 11:10
  example, Iordania, we have Syria, we have Iraq.
• 11:14
  We have other Arabic states, for example, in the Gulf region,
• 11:20
  Yeah, we have our United Arabic Emirates, we have Kuwait, Qatar
• 11:25
  and so on. So quite the same will be with
• 11:27
  the Post Russia space or X Russia spaces.
• 11:31
  Alex, tell me about this map, the most famous map, which I'm
• 11:35
  very often sharing on my Twitter account, and it's also the head
• 11:38
  of my Twitter account of this 41 new states which should be
• 11:42
  emerging out of X Russia. What's the history of that map?
• 11:45
  Where did you paint it? Where did you make it?
• 11:48
  And did you consult it before the movement inside to have a
• 11:51
  clear plan for 41 new states? Of course we consult them.
• 11:56
  Of course it's it's a visualization, it's a plan.
• 12:00
  So it's just a started to a conversation yet to debate.
• 12:04
  Because of course in future could be 41 new independent
• 12:08
  states or could be 45 or 21, it could be different.
• 12:13
  But we have just a plan, just a start for debate.
• 12:17
  And when we create this map, it was we have different version.
• 12:23
  Yeah. So it's not the first one, but
• 12:25
  it's there and now it's the main one.
• 12:28
  And it depends on the demographic, administrative
• 12:31
  borders now on the population, on the economic and logistic
• 12:37
  points, on their social points, on their ethnical and national
• 12:46
  living area for the people. So it's include different
• 12:50
  options and we create this this map like way how it could be and
• 12:57
  we understand and the leaders of different movements understand
• 12:59
  that in reality in future it could be some other borders.
• 13:03
  But because, for example, turques people they are have
• 13:09
  different points how it could be with independent Cuba and it
• 13:12
  could be one state or two separate states like Palestine
• 13:16
  and Israel. Yeah.
• 13:17
  So we try to prevent some conflicts and we already
• 13:21
  signaled their agreement. It was in 2023 their leaders of
• 13:25
  for all main movements in Paris. They signal arguments that they
• 13:29
  are recognized now administrative borders inside
• 13:38
  such called Russian Federation like a future in the borders for
• 13:42
  independent states. And if they have will have some
• 13:45
  different view how it could be. They won't make war like it was
• 13:49
  for example in Bosnia or in Croatia when Serbs people say,
• 13:54
  oh, we don't want to recognize creator or something like that.
• 13:57
  So they will not have the violence, but they will have the
• 14:00
  conference and they will have the mediation facilitation from
• 14:04
  the European states or Japan or Taiwan, when they will decide it
• 14:09
  in nonviolence, in peaceful way, how to have dual borders.
• 14:14
  And it's not about poor. They wanted to have peaceful, to
• 14:18
  develop their own independent states, to have trade, to have a
• 14:22
  connection, to have some regional organization.
• 14:24
  Some of them wanted to be in future part of European Union
• 14:28
  and ETA, for example, independent Karelia, independent
• 14:31
  Ingria, independence, Milan, the Absco Republic could be Kuban
• 14:35
  also. Or each carrier could be a great
• 14:38
  part of Eastern new flank of Eastern European Union and new
• 14:41
  frontier. Yeah.
• 14:43
  For example, independent Sahai, independent Buriati in eastern
• 14:48
  and northern Eurasia could be a great area for for Japan, for
• 14:52
  South Korea, for Taiwan. And there could be new regional
• 14:56
  organization. And for me, it's I like this way
• 15:01
  of Vishigrad force. You know this after Iron
• 15:05
  Katenfeld in the early nineteens, Czech Republic,
• 15:08
  Hungary, Slovakia and Poland, they make this Vishigrad force
• 15:12
  and they are was on one track to integrate the European Union.
• 15:18
  Not unfortunately now we have this problem with urban with
• 15:21
  speed. So, but the idea of
• 15:23
  coordination, for example, for North Cafcasius states, English
• 15:27
  ETA, Cherkesia, Kumikiya, Dagestan or some other states to
• 15:32
  coordinate, to have open borders, to have a currency, for
• 15:37
  example, new one or something like that.
• 15:40
  It's quite good experience of central the European states.
• 15:44
  Perfect. Only one question about recently
• 15:47
  you published a book and you do a big tour for a whole Europe to
• 15:51
  promote the idea of X Russia. Can you tell me about the
• 15:54
  emergence of this book? I even could show you this book
• 15:59
  if you have 30 minutes, I'll bring it 1 moment.
• 16:01
  Yes, please. We all want to see it because
• 16:03
  it's very special. And there's also a website for
• 16:06
  this book. And we have to also honour the
• 16:10
  gentleman who was the most important editor.
• 16:14
  Sorry, now Oleg had to run for the book, but he.
• 16:17
  Will be back very. Soon.
• 16:19
  Yeah, it is. Thank you, Oleg.
• 16:22
  Yeah. Yeah, the detail of this book
• 16:25
  were is Yamas Bugaiska. Unfortunately, he passed away in
• 16:28
  October. Is a great friend of Captain
• 16:32
  Nation and Free Nation. He was a man who was fighting
• 16:37
  against USSR. He was one of the great people
• 16:41
  with Central European background, Polish, Ukrainian,
• 16:45
  Jew, who was growing in the United Kingdom, and then he was
• 16:50
  living and working in United States with Paul Goble.
• 16:53
  It was like with Bignam Brzezinski, like the rock of
• 16:58
  people who understand that we should win the USA side now we
• 17:02
  should win the so-called Russian Federation, which is no real
• 17:08
  federation but colonial empire. So this book is it's called Free
• 17:14
  Nation. You state the end stage of
• 17:16
  Russian colonialism and it's I will make this one and this is
• 17:22
  oh, it's but it will offer for. The bookmark?
• 17:26
  Yeah, Russia must for. So it's anthology which include
• 17:30
  different species and taxes from the leader of movements of
• 17:35
  captive nation who are fighting for the independence from for
• 17:38
  example to Shen Republic of each carrier which now occupied land.
• 17:43
  It's never was part of Russian Federation and nation who are
• 17:47
  still under the Moscow colonial control, for example, or radical
• 17:52
  Ingria, Asian master Hakasia, Altai, Ural, Siberia and so on
• 18:00
  and some friends of captive nation from all the world from
• 18:04
  Canada, United States, Taiwan, Austria, Germany, France,
• 18:08
  Ukraine, Estonia, Latvia, for example.
• 18:11
  It's very pleasant that we have your text speech in this
• 18:17
  anthology and we make some presentation promotion for this
• 18:20
  book for in different country, because it's very important for
• 18:25
  stakeholders of policymakers in European Union, in NATO country
• 18:30
  in Japan to understand watch what Russia really is it's
• 18:34
  colonial empire imperialistic, which wanted to destroy rule
• 18:38
  based order and what Russia isn't it because they tried to
• 18:42
  sell this, you know, propaganda myths about Russia.
• 18:45
  So we are make this presentation tool tried in with the idea to
• 18:52
  change the policy to against Russia, because unfortunately
• 18:56
  still we have bad policy to the Russia.
• 18:59
  We don't have any strategy in Europe.
• 19:02
  What we should do with Russia post Russia extra Russia?
• 19:05
  How to real support the captive nation not only in informational
• 19:10
  way, but in real active way because they they struggle for
• 19:16
  independence, should be successful.
• 19:18
  It's win win both for this nation, Bashkar, Tasan, Taterson
• 19:22
  and also for whole Europe. And we should have this strategy
• 19:26
  foresight and we should have real Rd. maps and go step by
• 19:30
  step to build better future without this Moscow colonial
• 19:34
  empire, without blackmail from Moscow, without different hybrid
• 19:38
  kinetic attack from Moscow. And we should win this war
• 19:42
  because if you want win, Russia, China, North Korea, Iran will
• 19:47
  win. And it means that we'll have
• 19:48
  very bad future. Absolutely.
• 19:51
  We must win this war, Putin. Actually, your movement had
• 19:54
  already some impact and some recognition in Russia recently,
• 19:57
  because Putin himself complained about so many people in the West
• 20:01
  talking about decolonization of Russia.
• 20:04
  And also the Russian Federation has declared this movement a
• 20:07
  terrorist organization. To my best information, what's
• 20:09
  the status quo? Yeah, you're, you're totally
• 20:12
  right. Just last week Putin have but we
• 20:16
  should understand that problem not in Putin problem is isn't
• 20:19
  the roof problem is this imperialistic mindset of Russian
• 20:26
  people of Russian state and he when he has last week some
• 20:31
  presentation or some press conference.
• 20:33
  I don't know really what is what it was and he said that Western
• 20:38
  countries are working on the colonization and even create
• 20:41
  this term of post Russia. Unfortunately, we don't say act
• 20:46
  Russia like you have all AT shirt, but they say post Russia.
• 20:50
  Yeah, it's our work and we're working on post Russia area and
• 20:54
  post Russia will be and Putin and other war crimes and
• 20:57
  terrorists like Kadyrov, Patrushev, Lavrov, Shogu, they
• 21:04
  will have, we'll have the tribunal like it was in
• 21:06
  Newburgh, you know, and we'll have new one.
• 21:09
  I I think the great place for it, it's for example, Delta,
• 21:13
  Crimea. So they, they like Crimea very
• 21:16
  much, very much so we'll make this tribunal probably in the
• 21:19
  occupied Crimea or in Mario. Unfortunately it's, it's a lot
• 21:25
  of people where they killed in Mariupali and in other Ukrainian
• 21:29
  city in Bakmut of Dewka. But we'll find a good place for
• 21:32
  this tribunal and they will be in prison.
• 21:35
  And we will liberate and occupied all Ukrainian land on
• 21:39
  all Georgia land which are occupied by Russia, will
• 21:43
  liberate Japanese land which also occupied it's NT and
• 21:47
  Karaputa. And of course, all captive
• 21:49
  nation will be free. And then we'll try to build to
• 21:55
  make reconstruction, because you know, at the colonization and
• 21:58
  create creating a new states. It's not the end, it's just a
• 22:02
  beginning. Because state, State Building is
• 22:05
  quite difficult process and we shouldn't repeat the problem
• 22:09
  which was and mistakes in, for example, Balkan states.
• 22:13
  I don't mean the success story of Slovenia or creator, but as
• 22:19
  such mistakes which were done in Bosnia, not to repeat the
• 22:24
  Srebrenians and some other mistakes which were done because
• 22:28
  W the European countries, the United States were prepared for
• 22:32
  that. So we have don't have any
• 22:34
  strategy and we support the former metropolitan Serbia and
• 22:40
  Serbia could make this kind of site in Srebrenians and other
• 22:44
  state don't repeat the problem of which a mistake with what's
• 22:47
  with Kosovo? Unfortunately still Kosovo don't
• 22:50
  recognize by a lot of state. Unfortunately my state don't
• 22:53
  recognize Kosovo yet and we are working to change it to
• 22:56
  recognize Kosovo, to recognize Taiwan independence and I hope
• 23:00
  it will be done soon. So we should be prepared to
• 23:03
  understand that decolonization is a tool, it's not a target and
• 23:08
  our target is a long term peace and stability in Europe, in
• 23:13
  Pacific region, in your Atlantic region.
• 23:15
  So it means that we should have programme and strategy for
• 23:19
  reconstruction of post Russian spaces, try to not make 20 years
• 23:25
  ago later some new one Frankenstein of Russia
• 23:29
  colonialism or militaries. And it means that we should help
• 23:33
  this new independence stance to become successful reach to
• 23:37
  integrate it. For example, if Karelia in Korea
• 23:40
  will be reach successful, prosperous, they won't be a
• 23:44
  threat for Europe because they will be a part Europe.
• 23:48
  So it means that Romania, Ukraine, Poland, it's not
• 23:51
  Eastern Ukraine, Eastern Europe, it's Central Europe.
• 23:55
  So we should have new Eastern European policy because Eastern
• 23:58
  Europe is Komi Bashkortastan, Ishq area or radical maker.
• 24:02
  So it means that we should build also the strategy of
• 24:05
  reconstruction, new, new Eastern Europe.
• 24:09
  I personally have participated, I think in about 7 forums which
• 24:14
  you organized. I was in Washington, London,
• 24:16
  Paris. I was also in Vienna in 2024 and
• 24:20
  I was in several hours. But you have organized I think
• 24:24
  20 forums already in Japan and in other places.
• 24:29
  Can you explain a little bit? Because you have the website,
• 24:32
  but you also do on site conferences in many parliaments
• 24:35
  and in many countries of the world.
• 24:37
  Can you a little bit elaborate what what was your highlights
• 24:40
  and what was the series of events you organising and what's
• 24:43
  your next steps? Yeah.
• 24:45
  So one of the main direction of the free nation post Russia
• 24:50
  forum platform working is, is informational and culture
• 24:54
  diplomatic work. So we are working day by day
• 24:57
  like the think tank informational portal on the
• 25:00
  issues of decolonization, Muscovy like the last colonial
• 25:04
  empire in Europe and reconstruction post Russian
• 25:06
  space. But to be more successful, we
• 25:09
  need not only online information our and analytic work, but also
• 25:15
  offline meeting and offline events when people could meet
• 25:19
  people. It's very important because you
• 25:21
  know, our Russia propaganda, unfortunately for centuries
• 25:24
  quite successful and they are tried to says that all movements
• 25:31
  for independence, all people who are fighting for independence.
• 25:34
  For example, each carrier or in Korea or Bashka Tostan, they're
• 25:38
  terroristic, they're crazy. They are not normal people.
• 25:42
  You can't have the deal with them because it's better to have
• 25:45
  deal with Moscow even if Moscow is not OK.
• 25:48
  But you know if Moscow will collapse, you will have and you
• 25:53
  want ECS or Taliban in Volga region or in Caucasus region or
• 25:58
  you will have 20 pre gauge in on this territory.
• 26:00
  So it's better to have deal with Lavrov, Putin and so on.
• 26:04
  So is there a strategy to sell this idea?
• 26:07
  And that is why we have different events in Vienna, in
• 26:11
  Tokyo, in Washington DC, in Ottawa, in Paris, London.
• 26:17
  Real news stock volume. It was the last one in the
• 26:20
  North, North Europe to show that, for example, the leaders
• 26:24
  of each carrier, Tatterson, Bashka, Pastan, Saha, Buriatia,
• 26:27
  India, it's normal people. They're liberal, they are not
• 26:31
  fundamentalistic. They want to have free trade,
• 26:35
  open borders, to have normal economical relationship.
• 26:41
  So these people is also wanna will be the benefit not only for
• 26:46
  their nation but for Europe. For example for Austria.
• 26:49
  Now Austria have the problem with this Russia, oil, gas like
• 26:53
  Hungary, Slovakia and so on. But when it will be ex Russia or
• 26:58
  post Russian spaces, there will be not one Moscow who blackmail
• 27:02
  and have the high prices of the oil and gas.
• 27:05
  But you will have like a buyer to choose who will sell this oil
• 27:10
  and gas independent Bashkatar, Stan independent Tadar Stan
• 27:13
  independent or or radical make independent Siberia, independent
• 27:18
  Komi or some other way. So because you know, there's no
• 27:22
  Russia oil and gas, no Russia uranium or diamond all, all of
• 27:28
  them are Bashkir, Tatars, Siberia and so on.
• 27:31
  So it's very important to understand that decolonisation
• 27:35
  and reconstruction of post Russian spaces is win win.
• 27:38
  And when we organise this event, so people, political diplomats,
• 27:43
  expert journalists from these countries where we have our
• 27:47
  events could speak directly. We start as Bash course, Saca
• 27:52
  Boriata and other people. So I think it's very important
• 27:55
  people know people and to have this direct connection on the
• 27:58
  one level to understand that it's win, win scenario.
• 28:02
  The best conference I personally attended was in the European
• 28:05
  Parliament in January 2023. And also the it's all documented
• 28:10
  online on video. And this was very important.
• 28:13
  And then there was the Hudson Institute in Washington DC.
• 28:16
  There was, I think also in April 2023.
• 28:20
  And there even was a debate between various political
• 28:24
  directions inside the movement about the Russian opposition,
• 28:27
  which wants to have a free federal Russia, and the ones who
• 28:31
  want ex Russia. Yeah, of course you are for ex
• 28:34
  Russia. But do you think there is really
• 28:37
  a realistic chance to have a democratisation of the Russian
• 28:40
  Federation like some in the West?
• 28:42
  They are hoping that after the end of Putin there's a way
• 28:46
  forward and Russia will be a more normal, friendly democracy
• 28:50
  and will be paying reparations for all the crimes against
• 28:54
  Ukraine, and they will try to be a normal part of the free world.
• 28:58
  Do you think this is a realistic option?
• 29:02
  We are open and pluralistic platforms, so even if you don't
• 29:05
  agree with some other views of people, we provide them
• 29:09
  opportunity to speak and to debate.
• 29:11
  That is what's in Hassan Institute, for example, debate
• 29:14
  which you mentioned by which but we should understand that we
• 29:18
  already have it in the past that believe that Russia could be
• 29:22
  democratic. So I a little bit read and learn
• 29:28
  from the history. Of course it's not repeated, but
• 29:31
  I know that Russia couldn't be democratic.
• 29:34
  Russian people could build democratic state, but Russia
• 29:38
  couldn't be democratic because it's too big and it's narrow was
• 29:42
  a democratic. So it's a huge area which which
• 29:45
  have know the story of subsidiarity and the federal
• 29:49
  level. You know, if you want to build
• 29:51
  real federation or confederation, what you need,
• 29:55
  you need at first you need not from the central, from the high
• 29:59
  place, you need from the ground to have this federal movement
• 30:04
  and federal level. So at first it should be
• 30:07
  independent in Korea, independent Siberia, independent
• 30:11
  Karelia. And then it probably could build
• 30:13
  something bigger, some federal, federal or confederate level.
• 30:18
  But at the first it should be independent.
• 30:21
  But if we will have independent Ingria Karelia, they have
• 30:26
  nothing in common, not only with Moscow, but of course they have
• 30:30
  nothing in common with Saha, because have no reason why
• 30:34
  should they have been one federation, not with, for
• 30:37
  example, Buryatia or Japan or United even States from the
• 30:41
  Arctic region. But with Ingria Karelia, it's
• 30:44
  far, far away from them. A different culture, different
• 30:47
  language, different religion, different trade and economical
• 30:51
  perspective. Even if there will be some new
• 30:55
  federation or for example Russian Federation, it would it
• 30:59
  wouldn't include this for example.
• 31:01
  So how so it could be Volga Federation?
• 31:04
  Where will be Samara region, for example, some Astrakhan region
• 31:09
  probably. Who knows, it could be Siberia,
• 31:11
  Federation or Confederation or United States of Siberia.
• 31:15
  Because it's some reason why people in Nova Siberis,
• 31:18
  Krasnoyars, Stobos could be in one area, United States of
• 31:23
  Siberia. But for United States, for
• 31:25
  Siberia, it's no reason to be in the same state with Moscow or
• 31:28
  with Saint Petersburg region. So of course there could be
• 31:32
  different federation confederation with Russian
• 31:34
  people, but it won't be the one one United Russia.
• 31:40
  Because for example, for Karelia Occupan is better to be a part
• 31:43
  of European Union, but not the part of some federation with
• 31:46
  Habaros College, Devastock region or Chikotka Kamchatka.
• 31:49
  Because from Cuban is much more closer to Black Sea, Yeah, to
• 31:55
  Romania, Ukraine to Turkey, but not to, for example, I don't
• 32:00
  know, Hakartia, which are 6000 kilometres, for example, from
• 32:05
  Moscow to Yakuza in the heights, 8000 kilometres.
• 32:09
  It's like was from Lisbon to Angola to Rwanda when Angola was
• 32:14
  a colony of Portugal. So of course it could be
• 32:20
  democratic and hope it will be democratic Russian states, but
• 32:24
  it should be Prula, it should be multi states for Russian people,
• 32:27
  not one state because it's too big, too different.
• 32:31
  And if it will be something one and united for few years it
• 32:37
  could be democratic. But then it will become one more
• 32:40
  time dictatorship, totalitarian state which will try to make the
• 32:46
  repressive inside this state and military aggression outside.
• 32:52
  Or like, do you think that the West after the fall of Putin
• 32:54
  will repeat the big mistake of 1992 when we tried to have a
• 32:59
  United Russia and sacrifice Chechnya to the Putin and
• 33:03
  Yeltsin's wars in two wars? Do you think we will make the
• 33:06
  mistake again? Or do you think that the West
• 33:09
  will be wiser and recognise the independence of the successor
• 33:12
  states? I'm not Nostradamus, I'm not one
• 33:16
  guy. I'm not.
• 33:16
  I don't know the future, but my point is to create future, try
• 33:20
  to design it so it depends on us, on our work, if it will be
• 33:24
  success, if we will success in what we are doing with you and
• 33:30
  with other people who follow free nation for structure, form.
• 33:34
  And it's great people. Yeah.
• 33:35
  You know, it's a former minister of foreign affairs.
• 33:38
  It's members of parliament in Italy, in Ukraine, in Estonia,
• 33:42
  Lithuania. It's a member of parliament and
• 33:45
  policy makers in Japan, in United States.
• 33:48
  It's the senior fellow of Hudson Institute of Jamestown
• 33:52
  Foundation. There is we have a partnership
• 33:54
  with Span European Movement and have this tie of Span European
• 33:57
  very I'm honored to be also a part of Pan European movement.
• 34:01
  So if you if you work hard and will be success depends on us.
• 34:05
  We shouldn't repeat these mistakes and we should do
• 34:08
  everything possible and everything impossible not to
• 34:10
  repeat the mistakes of 1992 and the mistakes of 1918 when Russia
• 34:18
  it. Now we are on the before the 3rd
• 34:22
  collapse of Russia imperialist, but the first one was in 1917.
• 34:27
  And we should finish with this problem 100 years ago.
• 34:31
  But unfortunately United Kingdom, France and some other
• 34:35
  countries support not independent Ukraine, independent
• 34:39
  Bashka Karstan, independent Siberia movement, independent
• 34:43
  Far Far East Republic. But they support this at first
• 34:47
  Tanikin and other White Russia, which wanted to rebuild this
• 34:51
  empire. And then when they lose this war
• 34:54
  in Russia, they support the Bolshevik Soviet.
• 34:57
  Yeah, and they help, they recognise users and have a good
• 35:00
  relationship with Stalin nevertheless.
• 35:04
  So it's our target, it's our work not to repeat third time
• 35:09
  this mistake. Absolutely.
• 35:11
  This was our talk with Oleg Magaletsky, the brain and driver
• 35:15
  of the gender of ex Russia of the Post Russian Forum, the
• 35:21
  author of this book and the man who has organized over 20
• 35:24
  conferences worldwide to prepare the world for the future, a
• 35:29
  better future where there is ex Russia, where there is
• 35:32
  independence and freedom of this great nations to emerge.
• 35:35
  And I want to thank you very much.
• 35:37
  And what's your last message for our audience?
• 35:39
  What is your wish for 2026? What should happen?
• 35:43
  And of course, victory for Ukraine.
• 35:45
  We know that. But do you think 2026 can be the
• 35:48
  moment Russia breaks and freedom reigns?
• 35:52
  Russia could breaks in any moment, in any moment.
• 35:56
  It even could be in 2023 when we have this precaution March and
• 36:00
  it was our mistakes not to be prepared for this window of
• 36:04
  opportunity which we have for 20 hours.
• 36:07
  So we should be prepared for next time we'll have it.
• 36:11
  I don't know it will be 2020 sixth or 20272028.
• 36:15
  But you know, in our map you have the nursing Eurasia 2040.
• 36:20
  So we should finish with this Russian Empire before it.
• 36:24
  And my last point is let's work together to make Moscow be small
• 36:29
  again. It's our main touching because
• 36:32
  Moscow be the land the S all empire collapsing and we should
• 36:37
  speed up collapse of this empire and build long term peace and
• 36:41
  stability in Europe. Atlantic Pacific which couldn't
• 36:45
  be without decolonization, last colonial empire in Europe.
• 36:48
  And we should win this cringe axis because it's not only
• 36:51
  Russia, it's people Republic of China, Iran, North Korea and
• 36:54
  they're satellites. If we want, if we want be
• 36:59
  proactive and offensive, they will start a big third World War
• 37:04
  and 1st nuclear war and they will attack people.
• 37:06
  Republic of China will attack Taiwan, Russia will attack
• 37:09
  Baltic states, Iran will make more war in the Middle East.
• 37:14
  So.