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FridAI - Taming your AI Expenses · Business Brain – The Entrepreneurs’ Podcast

• 0:00
  Dave Hamilton: Business Brain, episode 759, Casual Friday Eye, for June 5th,
• 0:06
  Dave Hamilton: International Thank You Day, 2026.
• 0:12
  Dave Hamilton: Thank you, Shannon, for doing this show with me for the last 12 years.
• 0:16
  Shannon Jean: Hey, thank you, Dave, for doing all the heavy lifting on the back end.
• 0:18
  Shannon Jean: I just get to show up and talk.
• 0:20
  Dave Hamilton: It's the best. You do the work to make it published.
• 0:23
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, that's true.
• 0:24
  Dave Hamilton: Put up the labor. Thank you, folks, for listening. it's uh
• 0:26
  Dave Hamilton: it's an important uh you're an
• 0:29
  Dave Hamilton: important part of this without you we don't get to do this so doesn't work yeah
• 0:33
  Dave Hamilton: so for thank you day that's my uh that's my thing and uh i think we should start
• 0:39
  Dave Hamilton: the show here i'm ready shannon i spent here for friday i i spent 15 and 22 cents this morning,
• 0:48
  Dave Hamilton: um i have i've mentioned how i've used claude i've also mentioned how claude sponsors uh my,
• 0:55
  Dave Hamilton: gig gab podcast for musicians which is like an odd it's it's always strange
• 0:59
  Dave Hamilton: to me that they choose that one not this one but whatever like it's fine it
• 1:03
  Dave Hamilton: works yeah yeah yeah and uh and it's it's doing well they keep renewing and i love that um,
• 1:11
  Dave Hamilton: They have always given me a Claude plan.
• 1:16
  Dave Hamilton: And for a while, they gave me a $20 a month plan. And then for the last three
• 1:19
  Dave Hamilton: months, they gave me the $100 a month plan to try that out, to talk about.
• 1:23
  Dave Hamilton: That's cool. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:26
  Dave Hamilton: And then we're recording this on June 1st. We're kind of in between things.
• 1:29
  Dave Hamilton: And so they haven't, like, things are happening, but they haven't given us,
• 1:33
  Dave Hamilton: like, the coupons. So I now am paying for my Claude plan, which is fine.
• 1:37
  Dave Hamilton: I'm totally, like, I love it. Sure. You know, would happily pay for it.
• 1:40
  Dave Hamilton: And I was really curious to see if I could live within the confines of the $20
• 1:47
  Dave Hamilton: a month plan versus the $100 a month plan.
• 1:50
  Dave Hamilton: So we're talking about Claude Pro versus Claude Max 5X, whatever it is,
• 1:54
  Dave Hamilton: because there's a $200 a month plan, which is a 10X plan.
• 1:56
  Dave Hamilton: And i cannot um i
• 2:00
  Dave Hamilton: thankfully i had a hundred dollar a month plan at the time when claude gave
• 2:06
  Dave Hamilton: everybody a credit equal to the amount of um like a a token credit equal to
• 2:13
  Dave Hamilton: the amount of your monthly payment and it was when they essentially switched off the ability to use.
• 2:19
  Dave Hamilton: Your um plan login for open
• 2:23
  Dave Hamilton: claw and you had to just like use the
• 2:25
  Dave Hamilton: api and use tokens right so they're like look you know you essentially get a
• 2:29
  Dave Hamilton: month's worth of tokens free and you can if it you know if it takes you five
• 2:34
  Dave Hamilton: months to use them well then you know good on you right it was their it was
• 2:38
  Dave Hamilton: their peace offering right and so that meant that i excuse me that meant that
• 2:42
  Dave Hamilton: i had a hundred bucks worth of tokens in there,
• 2:44
  Dave Hamilton: And I think maybe once in the last couple of months, I ran up against my token
• 2:50
  Dave Hamilton: limit because the way Claude works, which is now what everybody is doing some version of this.
• 2:55
  Dave Hamilton: You get, you know, five hour blocks worth of tokens and then five hour blocks
• 2:59
  Dave Hamilton: worth of limits, I should say.
• 3:01
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, I'll come back and be like, you can get more at two thirty. Yeah, right. Yeah.
• 3:05
  Dave Hamilton: And and and you can tell it. Go ahead and use my my account balance to to fund that or not.
• 3:11
  Dave Hamilton: Right. And I turned it on and I thought, well, this is going to be interesting.
• 3:14
  Dave Hamilton: And I'd gotten in a habit of using Opus for everything, and I'm now using Opus
• 3:20
  Dave Hamilton: 4.8, and I do all my Claude code with it.
• 3:23
  Dave Hamilton: I do all of my chatbot stuff with it. I use Claude co-work extensively.
• 3:29
  Dave Hamilton: I'm doing a ton of things with it. And I thought, well, I'm just going to start and see what happens.
• 3:35
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, if I need to pay $100 a month, I don't know if they're going to give
• 3:37
  Dave Hamilton: me another free trial or whatever it is as part of the ad campaign or whatever.
• 3:43
  Dave Hamilton: And it's fine if they, I mean, I would love it if they did, but it's also fine if they don't. Right.
• 3:47
  Dave Hamilton: And because I'll pay for it. It's, it's, it's absolutely worth it to me.
• 3:50
  Dave Hamilton: I'm just curious if I actually use 20 bucks a month worth or a hundred bucks a month worth.
• 3:54
  Dave Hamilton: And I am absolutely in the hundred bucks a month worth, uh, camp,
• 3:58
  Dave Hamilton: uh, because I used $15 and 22 cents worth of credits this morning,
• 4:02
  Dave Hamilton: uh, before noon, because I used up my, my allotment, whatever it was.
• 4:07
  Dave Hamilton: But again, I am using Opus for everything.
• 4:10
  Dave Hamilton: I'm not, you know, it's like, Oh, maybe you don't go back to Sonnet.
• 4:13
  Dave Hamilton: Maybe I should use Sonnet now.
• 4:15
  Shannon Jean: I use Sonnet for like basic questions and like quick things of whatever.
• 4:21
  Shannon Jean: And then when I jump into my projects,
• 4:24
  Shannon Jean: I always have the latest, you know, Opus 4.8
• 4:28
  Dave Hamilton: On there. Yep.
• 4:30
  Shannon Jean: So that's my indicator. If I'm just, like, chatting like I used to chat with
• 4:34
  Shannon Jean: – although ChatGPT, I got to say, it's gotten a lot better.
• 4:37
  Dave Hamilton: It got a lot better, yeah.
• 4:38
  Shannon Jean: A lot better, which is great. You know, I think it's this – the race that we're in here, you know.
• 4:43
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, for a while, they weren't leapfrogging each other. No.
• 4:46
  Dave Hamilton: Claude was just getting better, and ChatGPT was, like, you know,
• 4:50
  Dave Hamilton: trying to, like, hold on for dear life.
• 4:52
  Dave Hamilton: But they – you're right. they've it's gotten better now yeah yeah perplexity
• 4:56
  Dave Hamilton: so perplexity is the one that's holding on for dear life right now in my i kind.
• 5:00
  Shannon Jean: Of agree i kind of agree i wish apple would buy them or do something with them
• 5:05
  Shannon Jean: i think would be kind of interesting um but
• 5:07
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah but like perplexity is a weird they're a weird business model because they
• 5:12
  Dave Hamilton: like they kind of have their own everybody else yes right but it's they're just
• 5:16
  Dave Hamilton: the front end and like if you're in the business of just making the front end
• 5:20
  Dave Hamilton: why isn't it the best front end it's the worst front end like that's what we're
• 5:25
  Dave Hamilton: saying i think their browser.
• 5:27
  Shannon Jean: Is one of the best
• 5:28
  Dave Hamilton: Uh yes comment comment is their saving grace i agree with that i think.
• 5:32
  Shannon Jean: Without comment that's the only way i use it is in common yeah and so uh if
• 5:38
  Shannon Jean: you haven't used comment i highly recommend it i think it's uh a great you know
• 5:43
  Shannon Jean: it's just so easy to ask questions instead of having to jump out to Claude or GPT.
• 5:51
  Shannon Jean: I know Atlas, the OpenAI has their Atlas browser, but I don't think it's as good as Comet.
• 5:55
  Dave Hamilton: No, it's not. And Claude doesn't have a browser. They do have a Chrome plug-in.
• 6:01
  Shannon Jean: Extension.
• 6:01
  Dave Hamilton: That's cool.
• 6:02
  Shannon Jean: But it's just not as smooth. It's not.
• 6:06
  Dave Hamilton: And I don't know why because really what Propuxity Comet is, is,
• 6:13
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, it's Chrome with the perplexity extension.
• 6:17
  Shannon Jean: It's just implemented better.
• 6:19
  Dave Hamilton: It's implemented better. You're right.
• 6:20
  Shannon Jean: And I can communicate. I use it when I look at deals a lot, like auctions or things or stuff.
• 6:25
  Shannon Jean: And I've always just, you know, I can talk to it. I use Whisperflow.
• 6:30
  Shannon Jean: And I just, hey, go dig into this, find out this, create this, tell me this.
• 6:37
  Shannon Jean: And I find it super helpful. I agree. You know, so.
• 6:41
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. It is interesting. comet i have
• 6:44
  Dave Hamilton: yet comet is is my default browser on
• 6:47
  Dave Hamilton: all of my computers it is not my
• 6:50
  Dave Hamilton: default browser on the iphone i tried it on
• 6:53
  Dave Hamilton: iphone and it didn't like it yeah no because it
• 6:56
  Dave Hamilton: can't be the same apple apple doesn't
• 6:59
  Dave Hamilton: like it's it's not it's not the same i don't
• 7:02
  Dave Hamilton: know yeah it needs it needs to get better and i hope
• 7:05
  Dave Hamilton: it does but uh but yeah yeah i'm sure
• 7:08
  Dave Hamilton: it will yeah it's um it's interesting but
• 7:11
  Dave Hamilton: but yeah so i'm i need to this afternoon
• 7:14
  Dave Hamilton: i moved to to defaulting to
• 7:17
  Dave Hamilton: sonnet which which really felt like i was giving up like
• 7:21
  Dave Hamilton: i was giving in you know it's good
• 7:24
  Dave Hamilton: it's still great it really that's the thing is like it's still
• 7:27
  Dave Hamilton: i don't know that i noticed a difference once i started using
• 7:30
  Dave Hamilton: it because i did it to do some of the like the show prep you
• 7:33
  Dave Hamilton: know i always have it um yeah create help me create ad
• 7:36
  Dave Hamilton: uh the scripts for the ads and all that stuff and i was like wait
• 7:39
  Dave Hamilton: this is just as good like maybe i don't need the opus reasoning for for everything
• 7:44
  Dave Hamilton: and i was i was just you know kind of basking so i'm going to give it a couple
• 7:48
  Dave Hamilton: more days but really i'm going to let it burn up my hundred bucks worth of credits
• 7:52
  Dave Hamilton: and then i'm going to buy it then i'm going to buy the thing yeah we'll see
• 7:55
  Dave Hamilton: yeah so i'm you know i'll get good idea,
• 7:58
  Dave Hamilton: But yeah, $15 and 22 cents in a morning. I was like, yep. All right.
• 8:02
  Dave Hamilton: Well, that answers a question.
• 8:04
  Shannon Jean: Yeah. There was a company that, that I just read about and I can't,
• 8:07
  Shannon Jean: I can't, uh, think of the name of the company, but they had,
• 8:11
  Shannon Jean: it's a large, big, huge, some huge corporation and they turned off the limits on, uh,
• 8:18
  Shannon Jean: the tokens for every employee.
• 8:21
  Shannon Jean: Yep. I don't know if they did on purpose or by mistake, but they burned through $500 million in 30 days.
• 8:26
  Dave Hamilton: Yep. i can see it yes yeah and.
• 8:30
  Shannon Jean: So and it's there's a ton of redundancy because everybody's like well oh i can
• 8:34
  Shannon Jean: build this or i can create this this will be great for my department and then
• 8:38
  Shannon Jean: you're like wait we've got three or four of those same things and uh
• 8:41
  Dave Hamilton: This is this is why i think there's an opportunity for
• 8:44
  Dave Hamilton: a um smarter front
• 8:49
  Dave Hamilton: ends in general uh you know
• 8:51
  Dave Hamilton: what let's um i want to tell you about our sponsors and
• 8:54
  Dave Hamilton: then i i let's let's keep going on this because i i
• 8:57
  Dave Hamilton: want to have a conversation about smarter front ends i think there's
• 9:00
  Dave Hamilton: some there's a there there so uh bear with us
• 9:03
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• 9:06
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• 9:10
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• 9:13
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• 9:16
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• 9:19
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• 9:21
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• 12:49
  Dave Hamilton: So this idea of we talked about this on the show before, right,
• 12:54
  Dave Hamilton: Shannon, that that when you're using an AI chat bot, there is the LLM on the back end.
• 13:00
  Dave Hamilton: And the LLM is static, like it's not changing the data that you give it.
• 13:05
  Dave Hamilton: It's not actively learning. They might be using your data to depending on their
• 13:09
  Dave Hamilton: terms of service and all that to train the next version of it or something.
• 13:13
  Dave Hamilton: But like this is a fixed in place thing that is just being, you know,
• 13:18
  Dave Hamilton: it's an inference. Right. And so you're just interfacing with it.
• 13:21
  Dave Hamilton: And then there's the app we run on our computers or our phones or whatever, or the web interface.
• 13:27
  Dave Hamilton: That is the, like, that's the thing that packages up everything we give to it,
• 13:33
  Dave Hamilton: sends it off to the LLM, and then shows us the responses.
• 13:36
  Dave Hamilton: And it's a translation layer, but it's doing a lot of things in that layer.
• 13:41
  Dave Hamilton: It's, you know, it's trying to make things more efficient. It's doing all kinds of stuff.
• 13:45
  Dave Hamilton: And we've been messing with this at one of our businesses. is we're actually
• 13:49
  Dave Hamilton: going to do like an AI style interface for things and for some things.
• 13:55
  Dave Hamilton: And what we learned very quickly was if you just feed everything to the AI.
• 14:03
  Dave Hamilton: Like your token costs go through the roof.
• 14:06
  Dave Hamilton: Like that 500 million tokens, like that makes sense to me for a large company. Sure.
• 14:10
  Dave Hamilton: If you're just letting everybody, like sending everything straight through.
• 14:14
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah. But you mentioned like there was a lot of duplication,
• 14:18
  Dave Hamilton: right? There was a lot of people essentially doing the same thing.
• 14:23
  Dave Hamilton: I think there's a huge market. There's $500 million on the line, right?
• 14:29
  Dave Hamilton: How much of that really needed to be spent on the LLMs versus what could you
• 14:35
  Dave Hamilton: have optimized if everybody used the same interface that cached responses and
• 14:41
  Dave Hamilton: was doing smart things with the data in between?
• 14:44
  Shannon Jean: I could say, hey, by the way, Dave is already working on this project.
• 14:49
  Dave Hamilton: Yes. Or Dave already asked this question. Here's the answer.
• 14:53
  Shannon Jean: Yes, yes.
• 14:53
  Dave Hamilton: Like, we don't need to go to the LLM every single time, right?
• 14:58
  Shannon Jean: It brings up a good point. I think that is a tremendous opportunity,
• 15:04
  Shannon Jean: and I think we'll see this coming up, is this private, if you will, LLMs for your company.
• 15:12
  Shannon Jean: And also light LLMs that you'll be able to put on your phone.
• 15:18
  Dave Hamilton: Well, that already exists. You can put an LLM on your phone right now.
• 15:22
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, I don't think the experience is as great, but I think it will get better and better.
• 15:27
  Dave Hamilton: Have you tried locally AI? It's pretty good. Yeah? Yeah.
• 15:32
  Shannon Jean: I will have to try it.
• 15:34
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:36
  Shannon Jean: Which are you talking about? What AI on your phone?
• 15:39
  Dave Hamilton: Well, it depends on. Okay. I mean, locally is just the front end.
• 15:45
  Dave Hamilton: And then you download the, I mean, unless you know somebody at Anthropic that's
• 15:51
  Dave Hamilton: going to give you. Right?
• 15:53
  Dave Hamilton: No. You and I can't have copies of.
• 15:56
  Shannon Jean: You download an open source.
• 15:57
  Dave Hamilton: But you download one of the open source ones. And Google, like Google puts out
• 16:01
  Dave Hamilton: their open source stuff and it's great. And you can download different sizes
• 16:06
  Dave Hamilton: depending on how much memory your device has and all that stuff.
• 16:10
  Dave Hamilton: That's cool. Yeah, I think it can work really well.
• 16:13
  Shannon Jean: Yeah, I think that's important. And I think that's centralization.
• 16:16
  Dave Hamilton: Your iPhone has an LLM on it. It doesn't feel like it most of the time. But it does.
• 16:21
  Dave Hamilton: Apple Intelligence has its own LLM on our iPhones. Yeah.
• 16:28
  Shannon Jean: I mean, it's amazing.
• 16:29
  Dave Hamilton: It's not great.
• 16:29
  Shannon Jean: Not that great, yeah. But I think you're spot on in the sense of you want to
• 16:36
  Shannon Jean: unlock this power for your organization,
• 16:38
  Shannon Jean: but you also need to come up with
• 16:41
  Shannon Jean: a way to centrally manage what's going on so everything isn't reproduced or
• 16:48
  Shannon Jean: you don't want your data uploaded to some of these LLMs that are going to learn
• 16:56
  Shannon Jean: on it and you need a private way to do it. Yeah.
• 17:00
  Dave Hamilton: Well, I and I think I think there's like to me, there's a world where it makes sense to.
• 17:08
  Dave Hamilton: Run something locally at your company. Right.
• 17:11
  Dave Hamilton: And it might be a local LLM or it might be just a set of like it might be just
• 17:18
  Dave Hamilton: a piece of software that's not using an LLM, but is making decisions based on,
• 17:23
  Dave Hamilton: you know, like caching things like when you go to a website,
• 17:27
  Dave Hamilton: oftentimes it's not asking the database server to generate that Web page.
• 17:31
  Dave Hamilton: If you come to Business Brain, for example, and you go to this episode's page,
• 17:37
  Dave Hamilton: chances are you're getting this page out of the cache. Our database has never hit, right?
• 17:42
  Dave Hamilton: And that's done intentionally. If somebody else already asked for and got the
• 17:47
  Dave Hamilton: same information that you're asking for, we ain't going to generate it a second time.
• 17:51
  Dave Hamilton: And it saves us our server costs and all those things. And so I think that local
• 17:57
  Dave Hamilton: caching of LLM, of the LLM experience, is going to be an important part.
• 18:06
  Dave Hamilton: Now, you might use a local LLM to manage all of that stuff and then decide,
• 18:14
  Dave Hamilton: okay, I can't get the answer for this, so I'm going to go out to the cloud LLM.
• 18:20
  Dave Hamilton: And that's essentially when, you know, when Siri interfaces with ChatGPT,
• 18:24
  Dave Hamilton: that's actually what's happening, right? Yeah, right.
• 18:27
  Dave Hamilton: It's exactly that. And you can do that.
• 18:30
  Dave Hamilton: And, you know, I mean, you need a lot.
• 18:34
  Dave Hamilton: You need the right CPU or a GPU, really, locally and, you know,
• 18:39
  Dave Hamilton: the right amount of RAM and all that stuff.
• 18:42
  Dave Hamilton: But yeah, I think you could probably have cut that $500 million down to about
• 18:48
  Dave Hamilton: $200 million total if, and that's a lot of money.
• 18:52
  Dave Hamilton: I mean, still $200 million is a lot of money, but it's way less than $500 million.
• 18:56
  Shannon Jean: Well, and I think that, yeah, it is a really interesting question of how you manage it effectively.
• 19:05
  Shannon Jean: Especially with a larger organization, you know, or even just like 10, 20, 30 people.
• 19:11
  Dave Hamilton: Yeah.
• 19:12
  Shannon Jean: And there's so many use cases for each of your departments or each of your people on your team.
• 19:19
  Shannon Jean: You know, how are you managing that, their interaction with an LLM?
• 19:25
  Shannon Jean: What are you, what SOPs have you put in place to protect your data if you have or have not?
• 19:31
  Shannon Jean: Um what types of accounts are
• 19:34
  Shannon Jean: you letting them in do you just have a clod with a team account and you're buying
• 19:39
  Shannon Jean: seats is that you know how you're doing it and then you can track it uh you
• 19:43
  Shannon Jean: know that way feedback at businessbrain.show tell us i'd love to hear it and
• 19:48
  Shannon Jean: uh so we could discuss it because i'm really curious how people are doing this
• 19:52
  Dave Hamilton: Same yeah this is really interesting all right what's uh what's the big takeaway
• 19:57
  Dave Hamilton: here we we talked about paying for well we talked about paying for AI.
• 20:00
  Dave Hamilton: That's really what we talked about. Yeah.
• 20:03
  Shannon Jean: I, but I think the bigger takeaway is the management part of it that we came
• 20:07
  Shannon Jean: back with and talked about how does your organization manage all the people
• 20:12
  Shannon Jean: that are hitting the AI and, uh,
• 20:17
  Shannon Jean: yeah. How do you, how do you keep eyes on what's going on?
• 20:20
  Dave Hamilton: It's a great question. My guess is like, uh, like many of you or many of you
• 20:27
  Dave Hamilton: will have the same answer that i do which is i'm not you know if you're asking
• 20:30
  Dave Hamilton: if we're asking the question how does your organization manage ai use we don't i mean i'd.
• 20:35
  Shannon Jean: Say the same thing
• 20:36
  Dave Hamilton: Yes right.
• 20:37
  Shannon Jean: Now i i let them into my team account and uh that's
• 20:42
  Dave Hamilton: It that's it yeah yeah but there's there's there's got to be more efficient
• 20:46
  Dave Hamilton: ways and the software to do it probably doesn't exist so.
• 20:50
  Shannon Jean: That's a good opportunity yeah
• 20:53
  Dave Hamilton: Thanks for hanging out folks feedback at businessbrain.show and have a great
• 20:59
  Dave Hamilton: weekend keep living that charm life we'll see you next week.