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Matthew Gray | The Christian Reeve Podcast #183 · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Christian re
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  podcast. Today's guest is a professional,
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  chef author and CEO of gourmet adventures and Hawaii Food.
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  Tours, his name is Matthew Gray. Welcome to the show.
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  How you did. Thanks Christian.
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  I really appreciate the invitation to come see you on
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  Ice, the pleasure is mine. I just read as got my this, in
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  the way I was doing some voice. Voiceover stuff earlier, right?
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  Yeah. No.
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  An absolute pleasure to have you on the show.
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  There's I was doing my okay. Is it his little caveat to this?
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  So I always do extensive research, all all my guests
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  anyway but sometimes I have like so much research compiled on a
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  person that I just don't even know where to start.
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  Like, I'm just like, ah, I don't know, I don't know.
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  Where do I start? But let's start with the the two
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  companies that you're sort of headed at the moment.
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  So talk us through the creation of gourmet adventures, and over
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  what Hawaii Food, Tours, what you offer and why people should
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  check you out. Well, you know, Hawaii Food
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  Tours, go taken down back in March of 2020 because of the
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  covid shit show. So for 16 years prior to, then
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  what we did was feed educate and entertain people every single
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  day who were visiting Hawaii, introduce them to the islands,
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  the food, the culture, and all of that.
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  So it was an amazing famous experience.
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  Okay? I didn't actually have that
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  information. So that's my butt right there,
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  but how come you have? I thought about bringing it back
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  and you just kind of feel like, okay, you know what we'll call
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  it there and we'll move on to new things or was it sort of a
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  case of maybe it's difficult to bring it back or maybe not in
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  the same way? You division it before?
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  Like how come that's now done, you know, it's a good question,
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  you know, Christian the covid has changed everything for so
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  many people. People don't want to get
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  together in the same way that they used it.
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  And so, I had a kind of Because it was a big, big duration of
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  time where we couldn't do the tours.
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  So I wrote a book called The Ultimate eaters guide.
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  Hawaii addition to be able to take care of people who are
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  still coming to Hawaii and still are very focused on wanting to
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  try great food and so that's what I'm that's what I'd done
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  recently. I read least the book on
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  Valentine's Day this year and so I'm still involved with taking
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  care of people but not in the, in the flesh anymore.
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  That's interesting. It confuses me because like I
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  feel like, what I see is basically things are just, I
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  mean, maybe this is just the UK, maybe it's different elsewhere,
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  but I feel like it here in the UK, everyone's just kind of gone
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  back to normal. And this is like it is though
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  it's never happened and I feel like there's positives and
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  negatives to that because the positives are like, okay was
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  good that we're back to normal and, you know, it's not
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  completely changed things for good, but at the same time,
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  Things like hygiene standards especially in Food Service.
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  Oh, my God. Should be like really, really
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  high and shit and if anything the pandemic should have taught
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  us that hey you know what, like it.
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  Maybe it's not such a bad thing to wash your hands frequently
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  and it's just it's just stuff that we should already be doing
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  but evidently I don't know. Isn't it weird when you go out
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  into the public and someone sneezes or coughs, everyone kind
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  of freaks out internally. And it's a whole lot different
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  than in the old days. You know, people you go to the
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  movies and people would be coughing and hacking and spewing
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  all over the place, and you just think it's a little bit gross.
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  But now it's like, you're thinking about, like, am I gonna
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  die? So I should, I should laugh.
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  But no, you're right, you're right.
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  I remember in the beginning of the pandemic, I forget few
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  months there. I was, I was deeply concerned
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  about that and it's not like, I didn't leave the house, but that
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  there was one point out. They were, I didn't leave the
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  house for a month and I was kind of crazy because I've got
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  everything delivered and then I was like, wow like I haven't
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  left the house in a month, this is bad.
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  I need to just go for a walk something like, oh yeah,
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  definitely it's changed everything.
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  So you know, starting my business I really had to do the
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  pivot. There's been a lot of requests
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  for from people who are coming into Hawaii, who want to do the
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  tour but then I see that there's still too much discomfort to
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  bring it back. So for the time being, I'm doing
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  some other things. Things and counseling people and
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  and all that and utilizing my food experience that I was, I
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  was educated in London. So your next words.
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  Yeah. The codon blur in London, right,
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  right. So, you know, that was very
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  interesting being able to live there and school there and learn
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  a lot about the, the formalities of Education of food and
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  culinary. But my experience is all over
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  the globe, doing all different, kinds of groovy things.
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  I got to ask. Because from the information, I
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  had you train Is it from 1979 through to the early 80s?
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  That correct? That's right.
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  Yeah, a long time. So, obviously, the game would
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  have been a lot different back then.
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  Walk you tell us about your experiences training at Le
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  Cordon Bleu. Well, it was pretty much the
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  significant aspect of training. There was being able to drink in
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  the United Kingdom and learn about London and meeting the
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  great people. I just have kind of those
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  anglophile thing. Going on to wear everything UK
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  works for me and I still fantasize about going back and
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  living there, maybe for a long duration.
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  Mmm. Yeah.
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  What brought you to Hawaii? Like, did you born and raised
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  there or elsewhere, or by Hawaii?
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  I was born in New York there to the age of 10, my family then
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  moved to Los Angeles. They didn't tell me right away,
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  but I caught up with them eventually.
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  And then to me why they just one day Just like
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  so I can't really move any further west and still be in the
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  United States, so maybe it is time to come to London and live.
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  There may be, I mean typically when you spend a great deal of
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  time in a certain place it's for a reason or several reasons.
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  But what would you say are the I say that the biggest things
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  you've learned just living in Hawaii.
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  The biggest takeaways from living in Hawaii.
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  Hawaii is the most unusual and unique part of the United States
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  as far as state to state. And it has a very high Asian
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  influence and wonderful history and it is gorgeous.
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  So I can understand what attracts people also is a big,
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  spiritual kind of magnetic appeal to it.
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  Justin group. For me, it allowed me to do all
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  of these creative things because my life has been one creative
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  Endeavor after another. So I became a food writer and
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  restaurant critic and, you know, it was just involved with taking
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  care of people and working in the newspaper and feeding and
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  entertaining people every day that's been my whole life.
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  You know, I grew up in a family that, you know, when times were
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  good, you would celebrate by eating, when times were not
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  good. You would kind of soothe your
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  soul by eating and everything was drawn to eating.
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  Every single thing in between good and bad was always related
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  to what's what's for dinner. I like the way you think that
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  feel the same way about food, anything, man, I love food.
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  Like, I always thought I'm a Taurus.
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  That's my star sign and they said we love food and I am very
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  much into my food and and I've had to learn to sort of brain it
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  back and be a bit more sensible with my portions and stuff like
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  that because I can go crazy and I don't think I've ever sat
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  there and felt like sad by eating food.
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  You know like any like whatever's going on in my life
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  it could be the worst day ever. But if I've got some food and
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  I'm sitting there and I'm eating that food is like totally get
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  that. I totally get that.
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  However being a chef and being the kind of like snobby
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  background person. I was brought up To be.
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  Now when I go out, it's it's sort of something that I accept
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  a lot more easily than I used to.
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  Because I used to have what I call a diners remorse.
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  I go into a restaurant, drop a lot of money and then say, you
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  know, I can make that better at home.
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  Now when I go out, I'm just really accepting and happy that
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  I'm not, you know, cooking in the kitchen.
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  And that I'm being waited on and taking care of, you know.
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  Well, that's the key thing, isn't it?
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  Like, I think a lot of people always talk about Oh, they say
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  you go to a restaurant and the food is that kind of like are so
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  right? Maybe you could have better at
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  home like really, you're paying for the experience service, the
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  Ambiance, if you like the whole package, Because you know that
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  the food is going to be overpriced, whatever is even if
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  it's something that's maybe on the cheaper side, it's still
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  going to be a lot cheaper to make that at home.
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  And I would want to think that most people would be aware of
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  that but not necessarily, right? But I do feel like Like, I don't
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  know if this is happening in Hawaii, but I know in the UK
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  like everywhere. I'm in put somewhere in the mid
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  to late 2000s. Like everywhere was trying to be
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  like a gastropub, right? And maybe it was the influence
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  of shows, like, you know, Gordon Ramsay's Hell's Kitchen or, you
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  know, MasterChef shows like that.
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  Where it's like, oh, everyone's kind of obsessed with cooking
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  and that's great. That's, that's a good thing.
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  That's good, I think of anything, but at the same time,
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  I noticed like a lot of hospitality mrs.
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  Would try and has like step up the game, which would sounds
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  great. But when you start to actually
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  look up, you know, how they change everything as far as I
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  could marketing perspective, and then the visual perspective, and
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  then what you're actually getting like, I did it for me,
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  it's infuriating like let's say I go to a pub and I guess I
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  don't know. I burger and I order a burger
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  meal of some description Pub. I expect to get.
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  Yeah you know a reasonably sized Burger.
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  Some fries maybe a bit of salad for let's say 8 to 10 pounds,
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  something like that, right? What I'll normally get because
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  of this whole Gastropub nonsense is like a wooden slab with a
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  tiny Burger in the middle and maybe some fries that be 1595
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  please what? And it's like those companies
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  jump on that and and do that and it is Trends and stuff like
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  that. But you know what?
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  All these artists to The kitchen running restaurants and the
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  marketing people in the back who think that if they show you a
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  nice time by putting artistic looking food and drink down that
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  that's enough. But that's not enough.
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  That's not the whole picture, you know, it begins and ends
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  when you walk in through their door, how you're greeted, what
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  the food is like, what the service is like, and do they
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  provide an atmosphere and Ambience for you and me to be
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  able to sit down and have a great meal together.
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  Hmm, that's me like is Important to be honest, then the food,
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  like I've had situations where maybe the food wasn't as great
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  but the service was so good. That I didn't think about it too
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  much. I was like, it's okay.
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  And I think it's all relative. Isn't it to wherever you're
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  actually eating it at this establishment?
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  You're eating it like that. You always have to be fair and
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  reasonable to, as far as your expectations are concerned.
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  So, like, remember I tried some food, a friend of mines
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  workplace, and it was just, it was just a pub, it was it Was
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  nothing special. So I didn't expect, you know,
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  anything, that's special. I kind of had a rough idea in my
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  head of like, okay, this is why you should taste like this is
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  roughly how it should be priced. And I remember thinking, okay,
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  it's definitely overpriced for what it is and when I got it, I
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  was like, wow, I can get something better at the local
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  take away for like 3 pounds cheaper.
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  Like this is I don't get this but then other places you know,
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  like, for me The most important thing is things being
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  appropriately priced so like I'm more than willing to spend a lot
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  more money like on something that's genuinely worth it.
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  Because in my mind it's like okay well you're just paying for
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  something higher quality and, you know, that that will cost
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  you more but when it's, I don't know, I just get infuriated when
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  I get over charged with something that's not worth.
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  It just seems like a bit of an injustice of some description.
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  You know, I totally agree with that.
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  A, I think we have to adjust our expectations when you go to a
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  donor place and It's after the pub closes.
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  That's one thing. You don't have high expectations
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  going to always be delicious, but when you go in, you're
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  spending, good money. And you're sitting across from
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  someone, you really care about for me.
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  This is the best form of communication, being able to sit
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  down break bread, have a glass of wine or whatever with someone
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  you really care about and learn about them.
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  And that's how I was brought up and that's what makes a
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  restaurant specials when they can give you that atmosphere and
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  you, and I can do this. Absolutely.
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  One thing I wanted to ask which I kind of find interesting.
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  Is that, obviously, you, you trained as a professional chef
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  and you became a food critic later in your life.
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  Like, do you think How can I phrase this question?
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  So do you think a food critic needs to have a background as a
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  shit? I mean, anyone could be a Critic
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  of foods because it's an easy way.
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  There's a Critic of food everywhere believes, they can be
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  a Critic, right? And obviously, we know this is
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  not true. There's gotta be like certain
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  skill, set, certain things you learn to do, and why just
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  learning how to review something in a in the right manner, but do
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  you think it's obviously it would have helped you.
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  In full, you know, as far as like how you approached it and
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  and stuff like that. But like, do you think that
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  maybe that would have more Merit than someone who doesn't have
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  that background? Like, how does that influence
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  being a food critic? Like, having a background in
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  Cuisine? I'd like to think that having a
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  background in Cuisine is very helpful and of course, working
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  in both the back of the house as a chef and in the front of the
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  house, as management allows you to really understand how that
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  world works because was one of them is dealing with food in the
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  back and one of them is dealing with people in the front and if
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  you have that entire experience and that background, it's going
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  to help you be a better critic. I think, I think the more skill
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  sets you have and understand, I think, the better, the end
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  result will be and of course, I say that selfishly because
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  that's what I did. So, I understand flavor and
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  combinations, and food, architecture and color, and what
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  you want to eat. Because I go out and I Talk to
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  people and I listen to what they have to say.
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  And I can adjust menus and experiences based on what you
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  want. When you're a Critic.
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  Like obviously you're giving people, sometimes, maybe harsh
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  words that need to be heard. I mean I think it's a food
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  critic is always going to be valuable that people might look
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  at it. Like are this person's coming in
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  they're going to trash when everything or going to make it
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  they might potentially harm the reputation and it's like well
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  they're just given you their opinion.
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  That's one person's opinion. Yes this person's opinion
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  happens to hold some weight but you know it could serve to help
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  you. You know what basically, point
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  out what you need to improve but did you have any experiences
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  where maybe you had some pushback to review that you
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  wrote and if so what happened and how did you handle that
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  situation? You know, that's so funny that
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  you bring that up because, you know, it is one thing to have a
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  lot of people who enjoy reading your work was working for
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  Hawaii's largest newspaper. At the time, I was the food
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  critic and, you know, the, when I went out there and I would
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  write a review, the first I would think about is well, what
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  do I want to review next? How will I get 1000 words out of
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  this experience that I can put down so you have to think about
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  it from an artistic perspective as well.
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  It's a rainy day and have it. Why exactly.
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  I never went in to kick anybody's ass job, where to hurt
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  their reputation. However, I speak the truth and
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  my truth is related to, you know, my my readers and and the
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  people who work hard for their money, who want to get good
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  value, going back to what you were talking about earlier.
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  I know you're laying out a lot of money, I want the value
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  expectation to be met by the restaurant.
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  So I did hurt a lot of people not with incentive to do so.
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  But by speaking my truth and I believe that with my
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  educational, my background, my truth was very important for
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  people to be able to understand but As far as the repercussions
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  on that, I worked in a newspaper where I was the creative
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  editorial side. And then, of course, in a
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  newspaper, being a company, a corporation that is generated in
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  large part to making money, there was an advertising section
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  of the newspaper. And when I would write a review
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  and it would be somewhat negative, the people who were in
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  advertising sales would like wait for me.
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  In the parking lot, as I was walking to my car.
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  And they would try to run me over because I hurt the
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  reputation of some of their clients their accounts.
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  So there was kind of internal strife just at the newspaper,
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  never mind what the restaurants and the public thought,
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  interesting, but yeah, no matter what kind of opinion you have
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  you're always going to get some pushback, but I can't believe
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  people go out of their lymph. It like you just, you do some
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  writing a review. Like, it's not like you're
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  trying to get them close down, Isn't that amazing?
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  Oh definitely that was never my incentive.
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  I always went in to tell the truth and to write creatively
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  and clearly about what I was experiencing.
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  But you know sometimes honest opinions hurt people.
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  Just take a look at the world around us even when it's not
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  about food and critique, it could be about art politics,
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  travel disease. So people are at each other's
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  throats, no matter what. So, as long as I was able to
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  stay true to myself, I was able Able to put out really good
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  content. Let's flip it in a more positive
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  thought space where there any places that you were critic
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  critical of the then benefited as a result of that and an
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  improved for the better. And you happen to sort of see
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  that, you know, the people who are really forward-thinking word
• 19:02
  to see my review and then perhaps take a moment to pause
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  and say maybe this guy Matthew has something valuable So I
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  would get phone calls and emails to visit these restaurants
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  hotels tortilla manufacturers, whoever.
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  And they would say to you help us because everyone knows my
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  background in my bio. So a lot of times that's what I
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  would do. I would go in and I would help
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  them learn about customer service.
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  Had a great people, how to speak with people.
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  I would teach their wait staff about the food, how it is, how
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  it is cooked? Where comes from?
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  I would train their kitchen staff as To certain techniques
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  how to make things nicer. So yeah, to answer your
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  question. There were a lot of times when
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  my words resulted in people's responses saying could you help
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  us, could you come in and help us out?
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  And testing just on the same sort of.
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  Though under you under keep using this term thought space
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  thought, wavelength, I don't know.
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  That's kind of what Gordon Ramsay did with his show Kitchen
• 20:08
  Nightmares. However in more recent years
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  we've kind of realized that the show all but that is a TV show
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  so obviously there's going to be a lot that's staged or whatever.
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  But from what I know about the show.
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  The research I've found out about the show apparently, like
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  there was only a few elements that stage or whatever, but like
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  most of it was pretty pretty real to, you know, it's as you
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  see it, but there's definitely like a formula to it.
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  Unfortunately, in that puts in the US version, I can't speak
• 20:42
  for the UK one, but the US version, I think there was like,
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  80 or 90 restaurants, they visited and like 15 of them are
• 20:49
  still open and the rest. Have unfortunately closed down
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  some as a direct result of being, on the show, some clothes
• 20:56
  down even before the episodes aired, Etc.
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  So the relevancy here, given your background as, you know, a
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  businessman in the field of hospitality, Andy.
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  I have to say like a lot of what you do is sounds that you've
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  kind of had similar experiences to Gordon as far as like helping
• 21:15
  people out and in that regard and I just wondered what your
• 21:19
  thoughts on that show and the 10 and everything, sort of
• 21:25
  surrounded that is, well, you know, Gordon is a Pro.
• 21:29
  And he's, he's also, you know, a world-renowned chef and now he's
• 21:35
  a world renowned Entertainer and television does require a lot of
• 21:40
  effort to be able to pull off because it is a show.
• 21:42
  So even though they'd like to tell you that they're not very
• 21:45
  highly produced the aspect of it is that they are because
• 21:50
  televisions is expensive. Civ and it costs a lot of money
• 21:53
  for advertising and they're always advertising in the Gordon
• 21:56
  Ramsay shows as there are in all food shows.
• 22:00
  So I'm thinking that, you know, if you think back when food
• 22:06
  shows were about cooking and about entertaining and about
• 22:11
  enjoying flavor they've kind of morphed over these past you know
• 22:15
  ten years or so. The away from cooking and more
• 22:19
  to like competitive eating or competitive cooking and Gordon
• 22:24
  Ramsay you know you used him as an example.
• 22:26
  He's a very fiery individual. Little bit of a potty mouth.
• 22:31
  He's very dramatic and very intense and very high-strung and
• 22:35
  that makes good television because that kind of stuff
• 22:38
  doesn't work in real life when you deal with someone like that.
• 22:41
  So, but on television, it really does.
• 22:45
  This is the thing as well. Like I've worked in Hospitality,
• 22:48
  I still do and I don't think I've ever seen a chef head, chef
• 22:54
  specially, talk to his staff like that.
• 22:58
  But, apparently Gordon did his his I don't know what the word
• 23:04
  he was taught, by his name, Jean Pierre White, I think his name.
• 23:10
  Oh, right. Right.
• 23:11
  Right. And apparently she's other very
• 23:13
  intense guy, right? Apparently, that's what Gordon
• 23:15
  got it from. So, there you go.
• 23:19
  And apparently like that, that's just Like them whereas like most
• 23:22
  kitchens I don't know, maybe come at me in the comments if
• 23:25
  I'm wrong about this. But every kitchen I've ever
• 23:27
  worked in everyone's very, you know, obviously like during
• 23:31
  service if it gets pretty stressful, like maybe you might
• 23:34
  get a few experience might come out here and there.
• 23:36
  But generally there's always a level of respect there because
• 23:38
  you know, these people working together, you're a team and you
• 23:41
  have a goal and you've got to get through it.
• 23:44
  So that's my point, it's a really fantastic point.
• 23:48
  If you disrespect others, you're not going to get What you want
• 23:52
  and he's not very thoughtful or respectful to his people.
• 23:56
  But the folks watching this show, they like that.
• 24:00
  It's entertainment. But the people, you know, on the
• 24:03
  show with him, no one can feel good about getting torn down in
• 24:07
  public. I feel like, I don't lie behind
• 24:11
  closed doors. I don't think he would have been
• 24:12
  like that. I think it was all for sure.
• 24:15
  I mean, I think maybe to an extent that might have been
• 24:17
  especially when he was trying to get his mission in Stars.
• 24:20
  There's a few Therese, they did in the 2000 late 90s over call,
• 24:24
  where you see him trying to get those stars in like how
• 24:29
  difficult that process is and everything.
• 24:31
  And yeah, there was a little bit, you get a bit far away.
• 24:33
  Sometimes with new starters, when the the level they weren't
• 24:38
  hitting the standards that were required.
• 24:40
  But then there was a lot of stress, he was under to achieve
• 24:44
  that. And these these things make a
• 24:46
  difference. So to some extent, I can
• 24:47
  understand, but yeah, I always look at it like No way talks to
• 24:51
  a stuff like that. Like everyone would keep
• 24:53
  quitting. There's no way it was learning
• 24:57
  about cooking and I was I was a sous chef at one restaurant in
• 25:02
  Los Angeles at a penthouse restaurant.
• 25:04
  So all these fancy people would come in and our Chef the head
• 25:09
  chef was kind of Gordon Ramsay. Like before Gordon Ramsay was
• 25:12
  even on the map and he disrespected people in the
• 25:16
  kitchen who working with them and down the line, one of the
• 25:20
  one of the other Cooks lost his temper after the chef threw a
• 25:24
  knife at him. And this created like a major
• 25:27
  brawl in the restaurant and ever since then they got rid of that
• 25:30
  chef. And now it's being handled by a
• 25:32
  guy who's thoughtful and quiet. And, you know, he's intense, but
• 25:36
  he's intensely colorful and intensely talented, but he
• 25:40
  doesn't upset people by getting in their face.
• 25:43
  I can't believe that. I mean, it's kind of fitting
• 25:45
  that something like that happens in La where, you know, movies
• 25:48
  are made. Because it just sounds like
• 25:50
  something from a movie. Imagine that you're sitting
• 25:52
  there eating your roast beef and then this is Chef.
• 25:54
  This comes starts fighting with someone in a day but I kind of
• 25:57
  imagined that I would happen. So I mean you just crazy things
• 26:01
  that happen you know, where the customers can hear it.
• 26:06
  And there are crazy things that are happening back in the
• 26:08
  kitchen, where only, you know, the workers are part of it so
• 26:12
  that restaurant world in the eating World from Back to Front
• 26:15
  is so interesting. Really is what some of the
• 26:18
  craziest things you've ever seen happen.
• 26:20
  And And like kitchen or the restaurant or over the years.
• 26:25
  What we've had customers, you know, come up to the kitchen and
• 26:29
  and complain about their food not being cooked right way and
• 26:33
  and you know that happened to me a couple times.
• 26:35
  And so instead of getting upset or offended I said well why
• 26:39
  don't you come on in and show me what you know, right on the
• 26:43
  spot. And and most of them would just
• 26:46
  like, back down or not say well, it's a little bit too rare.
• 26:50
  Okay, I'll take Everett and a couple of times, yeah, that guy
• 26:54
  put the apron on them and I gave him the knife and I said, do it,
• 26:57
  you know, that the meal is on the house, I'll take care of it
• 27:00
  and I didn't really learn a lot from those people but I made
• 27:03
  friends and customers. Wow, yeah.
• 27:07
  Fair enough. Okay, no, I think that kind of
• 27:10
  approach to I think because it's some people that there does seem
• 27:13
  to be this kind of sense of entitlement.
• 27:15
  Sometimes like I've said this to friends of mine before that I
• 27:18
  don't believe in that concept of the Is almost right, always,
• 27:22
  right. So, I think that's just the
• 27:24
  thing that's made up to try and kind of force people to work
• 27:28
  harder and like, don't get me wrong, we live in the review era
• 27:33
  where it can really affect your reputation.
• 27:36
  So you should do everything you can to make sure customers are
• 27:39
  happy. But that doesn't mean that
• 27:42
  they're always, right? And because the power is in the
• 27:45
  hands of the customer, sometimes you get people that kind of try
• 27:49
  to exploit this power and there. Say things like I'll get you
• 27:52
  close down or you know my power is in my words I can destroy you
• 27:56
  did and it's like try like you won't be able to this.
• 28:01
  And now sometimes sometimes I get it like I work as a
• 28:05
  bartender and I would say, I really do try to go out my way
• 28:12
  to help people. Like, I like to see people
• 28:14
  happy. I like to give people a good
• 28:16
  experience. Like, for instance, I was doing
• 28:18
  a cocktail the other day for someone and maybe I took a
• 28:20
  little bit longer because I just wanted to perfect it because it
• 28:23
  was something, it was just like a daiquiri or something.
• 28:25
  But our recipe says that you should put in way more lime
• 28:30
  juice than you're supposed to like, it would absolutely
• 28:32
  destroy it. So I was like, I paid with a few
• 28:34
  things and made it really sweet and she She looked, I could tell
• 28:39
  that she knew what I was doing and she was really appreciative
• 28:43
  of that, and it just made me feel good afterwards like I love
• 28:45
  making cocktails anyway. But I could see that me taking
• 28:49
  the making the effort just to kind of make sure her experience
• 28:53
  was a little better men. All the more as like it's their
• 28:57
  personal touch men that's what makes all the difference in the
• 29:00
  world. You know it's better to be
• 29:04
  someone who is going to take care of somebody and not
• 29:07
  Instigate issues, but really equalize issues.
• 29:11
  And at that sounds like what you did with that young lady and
• 29:14
  making the cocktail just the way she would like it.
• 29:17
  Yeah, I should have happy anyway, says man-made single in
• 29:20
  a bar. It's hard to not.
• 29:21
  Look happy. This is true.
• 29:24
  This is very okay. Like I've worked in a lot of
• 29:26
  different fields of work, front house back house Barista, even
• 29:32
  in the kitchen a little bit retail you know, Matt and It is
• 29:38
  interesting to see how people and their attitudes towards you
• 29:46
  differ from, you know, from place to place.
• 29:48
  Because obviously, when I worked in retail Supermarket, retail
• 29:53
  people were very angsty about their food and just, you know,
• 29:56
  they were in a rush and maybe they're just come from work or,
• 29:59
  you know, wherever and, you know, they're just in a rush and
• 30:01
  they just, they're irritable. They're not in a good mood even
• 30:05
  at times that Christmas, when you'd think.
• 30:07
  Put me in a great mood, they're just really irritable but in the
• 30:10
  in hospitality and bars, you know, generally speaking people
• 30:15
  you, as you say, are in a good mood because they're there to
• 30:17
  have fun but then sometimes you get uncomfortable situations
• 30:21
  where you have to turn people away, for whatever reason, you
• 30:25
  know, refuse to serve them Etc, and you were only doing so
• 30:29
  because, you know, you want to take care of them.
• 30:32
  You have a duty of K ever do to everyone else there and people
• 30:35
  don't always necessarily react. Well, well to that and it's it
• 30:38
  can make it different and difficult and I feel like with
• 30:41
  with food service, Oh man, that that I have to say, it
• 30:46
  definitely is one of the hardest jobs, ever, absolutely speakers.
• 30:51
  You dealing with people who want their food, you know, 10 minutes
• 30:54
  ago and they want their drink 10 minutes ago and they treat.
• 30:59
  They treat you like you're kind of slave to them.
• 31:02
  Instead of understanding that, you know, you're doing your job
• 31:05
  and you're a professional and I'm going to be nice because I
• 31:08
  don't want something bad to happen to my food, on the way
• 31:11
  from the kitchen to my table. I've never seen that happen but
• 31:17
  I've heard it does happen. That's all I can say about that.
• 31:21
  People like, you know, will respond the way?
• 31:24
  They were, they respond. We're all just human and you got
• 31:26
  to treat everybody in a nice way.
• 31:28
  That's really only the only way to get by.
• 31:30
  And, you know, I've been doing the life thing for a really long
• 31:34
  time and I could see that in the years when I was aggressive and
• 31:38
  powerful. And so on it was too much.
• 31:41
  And when I learned to kind of, take control, Troll and learn
• 31:44
  about my responsibilities to others life.
• 31:47
  Became a lot easier to navigate. How would you say Hospitality
• 31:54
  has changed over the last the site, 20, 30 years, like, do
• 31:57
  during your time in the industry?
• 31:59
  Like what are the key ways that it's changed?
• 32:01
  Has it changed for the better? Has it got worse.
• 32:03
  So what are your thoughts on that?
• 32:05
  I think there's a lot of corruption is in big business
• 32:09
  and in our current ality and I think that there's just so much.
• 32:14
  F and pump and that kind of thing.
• 32:16
  So they really kind of gotten away from from The Experience.
• 32:21
  Even though they'd like to make you believe that they're into
• 32:24
  making your time, they're a wonderful one.
• 32:27
  But it's such a huge industry generated by money, like every
• 32:32
  other Big Industry. So, you know, as a consumer, as
• 32:36
  a customer, we have to learn how to navigate our way through all
• 32:39
  of the promises that are being made to us.
• 32:41
  In all the special offers that are being Put out there and so
• 32:45
  on. So I I still think it'll pretty
• 32:48
  much boils down to the same thing that it's always been if
• 32:51
  you provide a good valuable service and you do it with a
• 32:55
  smile and you know your kind and the people feel like they're
• 32:59
  loved a little bit, I think you're going to get a better
• 33:02
  outcome. One thing, I've never lost
• 33:05
  anyone this before but I'm intrigued like what do you think
• 33:11
  about? And okay.
• 33:13
  Okay, bear with me like let's say that you take somewhere like
• 33:16
  McDonald's which is not a restaurant that you might call
• 33:19
  themselves a restaurant. It's not restaurant is fast
• 33:21
  food. You get what you're given,
• 33:23
  right? You get what you get, what you
• 33:24
  pay for, right? And and but I love a good
• 33:27
  McDonald's every once in a while.
• 33:28
  So I'll know, shade there. But I will say this and that
• 33:32
  it's not just them. There are many businesses like
• 33:34
  this, where this is the picture, this is the image of the thing
• 33:38
  that we're selling and then what you get is something very
• 33:41
  different and there's See this joke with with McDonald's that
• 33:44
  they because sometimes the bat burgers are like flattened.
• 33:48
  So it's like as if they've gone right, like a mallet and just
• 33:51
  like hammered it to a point where it's like flat like this.
• 33:55
  My question to you is Do you think that's kind of, like,
• 33:59
  false advertising or do you think that's acceptable to kind
• 34:03
  of Mark it in that way to Consumers?
• 34:05
  I mean, I feel like four major restaurants like higher quality
• 34:09
  restaurants, the image. You see, is what you will get,
• 34:12
  but on these sort of lower quality basis, that's not so
• 34:14
  much the case. I just wanted to get your
• 34:16
  thoughts on that. Do you mean that when McDonalds
• 34:19
  commercials run on television and they show you like a
• 34:22
  ginormous Burger? That's juicy with cheese
• 34:25
  dripping and it just appealing Into the eye and then when you
• 34:28
  get there, it's not that. Yeah, but like that's continues.
• 34:33
  It's not just those ad but, like, be on that billboard to be
• 34:36
  anywhere. Like, and there's so many
• 34:38
  companies that are like this and it's just very I feel because I
• 34:43
  have a background in marketing. I that's why I studied, right
• 34:46
  attorney about that, I studied University.
• 34:49
  I got a degree in business management marketing is the
• 34:52
  specialism worked in the industry for about four or five
• 34:55
  years corpora and It on etcetera and II.
• 35:00
  Love marked is interesting to me from the psychology perspective
• 35:03
  and everything. And, but when I look at these
• 35:06
  things, like I'm just kind of like that.
• 35:08
  Just seems like false advertising to me, like, and
• 35:11
  there's a lot of things in the food service industry, that?
• 35:14
  Okay? There's jokes made about them.
• 35:16
  Like people are aware, but like, that's one of them.
• 35:19
  Another one is that when a place says like, oh, we make the best
• 35:21
  coffee around. Like okay, that's
• 35:22
  tongue-in-cheek as fine but still like, it's all to me.
• 35:26
  It's like false advertising. Things, false promises you have
• 35:29
  so many different elements to a company or a corporation.
• 35:33
  You have the art Department. You have the marketing people,
• 35:36
  you have the sales people, you have the creatives, you have the
• 35:39
  bosses and, you know, it's really difficult to round up
• 35:43
  everybody and get a finished product that works.
• 35:46
  So that's why the larger companies get, I think the more
• 35:50
  out of place there their final product is going to be, I think
• 35:54
  I only small kind of small mom-and-pop Businesses are going
• 35:58
  to get the product that they really want.
• 36:00
  Because on the grand scheme, the ground level.
• 36:02
  It's very, very difficult. You have too many chefs in the
• 36:04
  kitchen so to speak. Almost sounds like you're saying
• 36:08
  that like they expect their product to be bad.
• 36:11
  So they're trying to make sure that they put all the money into
• 36:14
  the market until at least. It will look good when you're
• 36:17
  trying to sell it, who knows really what their incentive is.
• 36:21
  However, that said I would question, everyone's motives
• 36:26
  comes, Two big business whether they know that the food they're
• 36:30
  serving is unhealthy or the field that they're serving is
• 36:33
  not what they are showing or promising.
• 36:36
  So you know it's difficult to take a an examination, look at
• 36:42
  people and and see you know some somewhere there's a disconnect
• 36:46
  here and how do you fix that when these companies are just so
• 36:50
  gigantic like McDonald's. Like you just mentioned for
• 36:52
  instance, I think logically a lot of time from the customer
• 36:56
  perspective. It's like, you know, You
• 36:59
  different customers have different things that they
• 37:00
  prioritize and that will ultimately come down to, you
• 37:04
  know, their expectations. And then also affordability, you
• 37:08
  know, like I have, I prefer things that have higher quality
• 37:13
  but also, you know, I can't necessarily afford them.
• 37:15
  So I have to kind of accept cheaper things sometimes, and it
• 37:18
  is what it is, but at the same time, I don't know.
• 37:23
  I feel like How can I put this? The big businesses that are that
• 37:34
  they're kind of like they're being forced to change things
• 37:38
  up. They even a post like McDonald's
• 37:40
  is changing and changing for the better.
• 37:43
  But it seems like people will always go for whatever the
• 37:48
  cheapest option is jet on like generally speaking like not
• 37:52
  everyone but like for Price certainly a here in the UK we
• 37:56
  are very price conscious and that Explains why, for instance,
• 38:00
  like a fashion outlet like Primark is so popular.
• 38:02
  Then again, you know, I think it's good to have these options.
• 38:06
  I mean I currently shop at the cheaper supermarkets like Aldi
• 38:10
  and Lidl because it's what's affordable, you know?
• 38:13
  Because the other places, they're just too expensive.
• 38:16
  Unfortunately and we're currently going for a
• 38:18
  cost-of-living crisis which does have an interesting knock-on
• 38:22
  effect on food service and and Hospitality like I can't count
• 38:28
  how many times people people come in.
• 38:31
  They asked for a drink and you tell them the price and they're
• 38:33
  like, how much? And I just, I don't know what to
• 38:36
  say. I'm like, it's just how things
• 38:38
  are. You could say, you know, down
• 38:41
  the shop. You can get this for half the
• 38:43
  price, see if them then we kind of way that out and say, well,
• 38:48
  no, maybe I'll stay here. I like your company.
• 38:50
  This, this is the thing, you're 100%, right?
• 38:53
  And if I would do that, we just got our business like, quite
• 38:58
  honestly, like, it's so So highly inflated, I'll give you
• 39:02
  I'll give you a good example, right?
• 39:04
  A bottle of Budweiser, where I work costs for 50 and as I
• 39:10
  understand some other places are charging more than that.
• 39:12
  So we're actually on the cheaper end, it's 450 for one bottle 330
• 39:16
  ml. Is that a typical price for is
• 39:19
  edit called an import for you guys get American bad beer?
• 39:26
  Well, maybe as a standard, like serving price.
• 39:30
  You could say that. I mean, it's easy and it's okay.
• 39:33
  The inflation is going up like crazy over the last couple of
• 39:35
  years. I mean, two years ago, you could
• 39:37
  probably got that for like I recognize three pounds something
• 39:40
  like that, 250 maybe but specifically at a bar and there
• 39:45
  will probably be other places say, like here in Manchester
• 39:47
  where they'll sell it cheaper. But generally in that City
• 39:49
  Center, that's probably around the price you'd expect to pay
• 39:52
  for that bottle in a button. Now, if I go to the store and I
• 39:58
  get, let's say, 24 bottles. I'll probably pay somewhere.
• 40:04
  If I'm lucky, like, 12, 13 pounds, probably about 15
• 40:07
  pounds, maybe a little bit more. But we put that into
• 40:10
  perspective, I mean, I don't know how I'm terrible at math,
• 40:12
  but yeah, 24 bottles, / 1512 whatever, right?
• 40:18
  It's not a lot, you know. Oh, yeah.
• 40:21
  Know, the prices are so inflated at the bars, but at the bar, if
• 40:24
  I was to have the same amount I'd spend, like, about 100 quit,
• 40:29
  right? So, the key is, is to buy the
• 40:31
  case down at the shop, right? And put a few in your jacket and
• 40:35
  then go to the page. Well, I I think it illustrates a
• 40:40
  good point there. Like, what ye you said before
• 40:42
  about how it's where people come for the experience.
• 40:44
  They stay through experience. Absolutely because yeah you can
• 40:47
  drink at home but you don't want to sell home.
• 40:49
  You want to go out and see the world, get the feeling the vibe,
• 40:54
  the conversations, the music, everything like it and extends
• 40:57
  everything, Foodservice, the bars, whatever the case may be.
• 41:02
  And for that reason, I think people will always go out in the
• 41:05
  matter how expensive things get but it does still Will have an
• 41:10
  impact on things. Like Manchester's work, very
• 41:13
  well known for football, for example, and we did We did like
• 41:19
  a an event where we were showing the football.
• 41:22
  We always show football at the bar.
• 41:25
  And we always sort of brace ourselves because you normally
• 41:27
  gets that crazy busy, especially when away fans come and they
• 41:30
  just dominate the bar. But it's fun.
• 41:31
  It's something different, but we had the Manchester Derby coming
• 41:34
  up, so it's Manchester City vs. Manchester United and we were
• 41:37
  expecting a lot of people because we happen to be.
• 41:41
  There's like, this is interesting.
• 41:42
  So, there's a different zones of Manchester, there's blue and
• 41:45
  red. So we, I think we're in the red
• 41:48
  zone. And so we're like a menu Pub,
• 41:50
  like, not like, we're not like, like we don't have, like, flags
• 41:52
  on the window. But like sounds like gang
• 41:55
  Warfare. Well, that's the thing.
• 41:58
  Is kind of like that is designed in that way to kind of kind of
• 42:03
  protect people to be honest. So let's say like you've got a
• 42:05
  bunch of menu fans in there and someone comes in with a city
• 42:08
  shirt. You're actually encouraged not
• 42:11
  serve them like to refuse service because yeah because
• 42:16
  you're trying to mitigate prevent and a situation from
• 42:19
  occurring because it because it could.
• 42:23
  Anyway, this particular day which we were expecting it to be
• 42:26
  packed and full of man, you found, there was no one Not a
• 42:32
  sink. Maybe like two fans, that's it.
• 42:35
  Nobody. And one of the people that came
• 42:38
  in, that was drinking, they're sort of remarked, that is
• 42:42
  probably the cost of living crisis, and I must say, it's
• 42:46
  certainly in the last year. I see less and less people out
• 42:49
  and about, I mean, because this is really expensive, you know?
• 42:53
  You really do have to kind of plan ahead with these things
• 42:56
  even just to haven't going out and enjoying a nice meal is now.
• 43:00
  Now, something you have to maybe plan for as opposed to something
• 43:04
  you can just do it will again. It depends how you might, you're
• 43:07
  owning that's a big factor. Oh yeah.
• 43:09
  Well, you know, Society is really plugged in right now with
• 43:13
  all the things that are going on.
• 43:14
  So people have less money to spend, but even, you know, back
• 43:17
  in the day, I remember when I was young and my girlfriend and
• 43:21
  I would want to go out to dinner, we'd say, okay, well, we
• 43:25
  only have thirty dollars and that was like a lot.
• 43:28
  And so what will we order? We'll get, you know, two dishes
• 43:32
  and one appetizer. And we'll be able to still leave
• 43:35
  a few dollars for a tip. And, you know, we had a plan it
• 43:38
  out and people do the same thing.
• 43:40
  All these years later, you know, what can I avoid at McDonald's?
• 43:43
  What can I afford wherever I go. So it's a big part of it because
• 43:47
  you only have so much money in your wallet.
• 43:49
  Sure. Absolutely.
• 43:52
  Just keep it on the marketing, kind of wavelength.
• 43:55
  So you've generate to me. Hey I love that - yes.
• 43:59
  Sorry guys, we're gonna have A little marketing, speed spilner.
• 44:03
  Everyone loves this Christian. Everybody's digging this right
• 44:06
  now. I hope so.
• 44:07
  I hope so. I really I really do because I
• 44:10
  love doing this show and I really good at it, too.
• 44:14
  Thank you sir. I appreciate that.
• 44:15
  Absolute pleasure. So you've generated nine million
• 44:19
  dollars in sales and that we have at the Hawaii fruit or it's
• 44:23
  only. Yeah, that was just the latest
• 44:25
  business. So yeah, that was really fun
• 44:28
  because I made an effort to make sure people I had a great time
• 44:31
  and if they had a problem with it, I give them their money
• 44:34
  back. So you get that out of the way.
• 44:36
  And then you talk to the person say, what was it that we did
• 44:39
  that upset you? Or what was it that we did that
• 44:42
  you didn't enjoy that kind of thing, because money is always
• 44:45
  going to be the number one feature that drives people.
• 44:48
  So once you get that out of the way, give the customer their
• 44:51
  money back. You know what, they'll come back
• 44:53
  the next time because I treated him, well, The customer loyalty
• 44:57
  is always the most important thing, then rather than that's,
• 45:01
  that's what we were going for. Even though most of our business
• 45:03
  were first-time customers because of the nature of our
• 45:07
  business, being a travel business, in Honolulu that cater
• 45:10
  to folks coming there. That that puts a little bit of a
• 45:14
  tweak, on the whole marketing effort, because most of my
• 45:16
  business were first time. And so they had to read the
• 45:20
  reviews because now in the internet age, like you were
• 45:22
  saying a little bit earlier everybody lives and Dies by the
• 45:26
  review. So working with people and
• 45:29
  giving them great customer service and customer care is
• 45:31
  going to generate good reviews, which means I'll have more
• 45:34
  business in the long run when your perspective, like how do
• 45:37
  you navigate those reviews? Like, what, what, what's your,
• 45:41
  okay? Let's say you get a really bad
• 45:42
  review, like how do you personally deal with that?
• 45:45
  Well, being a writer I would always kind of take the
• 45:50
  opportunity to to write my response.
• 45:53
  Sometimes it was a bit hostile or defensive and occasionally it
• 45:59
  would be you know I'm really sorry how can I make it better
• 46:04
  and things like that? It was it was some combination
• 46:07
  of all of those various different responses that, that I
• 46:10
  would do when I had a bad review.
• 46:12
  Of course, most of those bad reviews were not Jet.
• 46:17
  But you still have to treat them as so, they are so because other
• 46:21
  people want to see how I respond as a person who runs the
• 46:24
  company. So there was always some
• 46:26
  combination of defensiveness or creative response or
• 46:30
  constructive response, that kind of thing.
• 46:33
  I'm the marketing perspective, which methods and techniques.
• 46:37
  Do you think contributed towards your success?
• 46:41
  You know, in my mind marketing our marketing is made up of all
• 46:46
  of the efforts that you make to get in the face of your
• 46:52
  potential customer and then sales is what you do, once you
• 46:56
  have that customer in your midst.
• 46:58
  So the marketing efforts for me, we're basically Ali.
• 47:03
  How me and my team would treat our customers and the experience
• 47:09
  that we're able to provide. And so you'd you draw yourself a
• 47:13
  road map as to what you want, what you expect and how to make
• 47:16
  it better. And then you just keep on
• 47:19
  delivering and putting it out there because it's fun.
• 47:21
  It's fun to make people feel good and you know, that's always
• 47:25
  been my philosophy. And so I'm going to stick with
• 47:27
  that. How do you think Hospitality
• 47:31
  will change in the future? There's a lot of there's a lot
• 47:36
  of strange techniques that are being used now only because of
• 47:41
  what's been happening is last few years.
• 47:43
  So companies are coming back and airlines are trying to come back
• 47:47
  and cruise ships or trying to come back and there are some big
• 47:51
  major cities. I was reading about in Europe
• 47:54
  Venice Amsterdam that are saying you have enough visitors through
• 48:00
  it. We don't need any more tourism
• 48:01
  right now. Damn, everybody's trying trying
• 48:05
  to kind of respond to this whole thing that's happened here with
• 48:09
  the Society of the travel society and people.
• 48:12
  So only time is going to tell how the companies respond to two
• 48:17
  efforts that are being made. And in that direction, this is
• 48:20
  interesting what you've touched on here because I've never heard
• 48:23
  about this before. Uh-huh, like countries cities
• 48:26
  actively turning people away. Perhaps, what might happen then
• 48:31
  is a bit of like a Wimbledon effect where for You don't know
• 48:35
  like Wimbledon the tennis tournament you can't just buy
• 48:39
  tickets outright you have to enter a lottery in order to for
• 48:43
  the opportunity to purchase tickets.
• 48:46
  So maybe what we're looking at in the future is having to enter
• 48:50
  sort of a lottery to get to visit a country which is so
• 48:54
  that's interesting. You know, let me tell you what
• 48:58
  Venice has done. They have started to limit
• 49:01
  cruise ships from coming in and And they are trying to
• 49:06
  eliminate, you know, people rolling their bags.
• 49:09
  On the rollers are luggage, so they don't want people walking
• 49:12
  through the streets with rolling luggage anymore and so that's
• 49:15
  kind of keeping people at Bay in a little bit because I don't
• 49:19
  know if you noticed but during covid the canals in Venice
• 49:24
  cleared up naturally because there wasn't so many tourists
• 49:30
  and the pollutants levels went down and the canal start to come
• 49:34
  back. Keynotes Mother Nature, doing
• 49:36
  its thing. And it was all because we didn't
• 49:39
  we weren't sending in like you know, 10,000 passenger, cruise
• 49:42
  ships, three times a day, you know, mostly Americans who are
• 49:46
  going to be Snappy and snippy and come and pollute your water
• 49:50
  and then leave later in the night.
• 49:51
  So I think Dennis is efforts is good and I think Amsterdam is
• 49:55
  doing kind of something similar right now.
• 49:58
  I've never been on a cruise ship but I must say everything I've
• 50:03
  read and heard about cruise ships.
• 50:04
  Just Sounds awful. Don't do it, icily.
• 50:10
  What? There's a guy on YouTube, it
• 50:12
  doesn't mazing that all documentaries.
• 50:15
  That is why he goes by the moniker ordinary things.
• 50:18
  Go check him out. He's really awesome.
• 50:20
  Anyway, he did a show on cruise ships and a lot of it.
• 50:24
  My biggest takeaway from it was don't go on a cruise ship
• 50:27
  because you would just get ill like from know.
• 50:30
  That's a great point. So Point.
• 50:32
  Yeah, even before covid now, I call it BC.
• 50:36
  You know, when people reference time they said before Christ,
• 50:39
  it's not before Christ, it's before covid but before covid
• 50:44
  you know people were thinking sick on cruise ships all the
• 50:47
  time. They would be foodborne
• 50:48
  illnesses. There would be like crazy stuff
• 50:50
  going on and you know there's no reason to do a cruise when you
• 50:54
  can get down on the ground and meet the people and have fun and
• 50:57
  drive around and walk the city's, this is this is the
• 51:00
  thing as what? Like I get.
• 51:02
  Okay, it's cheaper then I think it's too.
• 51:05
  Uber isn't it then going on an airplane?
• 51:07
  But then also, the way it's marketed is old, this is an
• 51:10
  experience in of itself. Like, you get to like, you can
• 51:13
  be on a pool on the ship, and there's events and all this
• 51:15
  stuff and okay. Great.
• 51:16
  But at the same time, whenever you see?
• 51:19
  And this is another thing that ordinary thing is, put it out as
• 51:21
  well. Look, like the pictures all
• 51:24
  show, like a lovely Serene view, maybe there's like, one couple
• 51:29
  on the deck and they're just enjoying the lounging area and
• 51:31
  it's nice, right? But then, every not not Cruise
• 51:35
  ship holidays, every kind of holiday package ever will
• 51:40
  present it that way. And then when you get there,
• 51:41
  there's like 10,000 people there, and it's packed.
• 51:44
  And there's nowhere to sit or be like to me, again, my idea of a
• 51:49
  nightmare. Maybe it's just because I'm
• 51:50
  introverted, but like I would just be like, uh, I need to get
• 51:53
  away from the people. I can't stand this.
• 51:55
  Please don't totally get it. You know, and cruise ships the
• 51:59
  way that their Market, it is like, why would I have an
• 52:02
  American want to go on a cruise ship.
• 52:05
  With 10,000 other Americans and go to a city someplace in
• 52:09
  Europe. It's like I'm trying to get away
• 52:11
  from all this. I'm not trying to get in it.
• 52:13
  You know. I feel the same way like, look
• 52:16
  anyone that's British. I love you.
• 52:18
  Okay, I love you all, but I don't want to be near you when I
• 52:21
  go abroad. Like, there's this play Spain.
• 52:25
  We're really guilty for this in England, because we've like,
• 52:28
  dominated certain areas of Spain, like, I think the cost of
• 52:31
  Del Sol is one of them certain holiday that is not just been
• 52:34
  there's ever. Trees as well.
• 52:35
  We're all just only be British people in a particular resource
• 52:39
  or place and it's like same as what you just said.
• 52:42
  Like I don't understand why you as a British person would want
• 52:45
  to go. I mean maybe maybe it's the
• 52:47
  familiarity safety but then what's the point of going
• 52:50
  abroad? Then if you is it what to just
• 52:52
  get sunshine and just be around other British people, but it's a
• 52:57
  bit warmer, I don't get that. I it makes no sense why people
• 53:01
  would want to do that and yet they continue to do that.
• 53:04
  So it's one of life's, you know, unanswerable sits in it.
• 53:08
  I went on one holiday that was like this and I never do it
• 53:12
  again. As long as I live it was a trip
• 53:15
  to Bulgaria's Sunny Beach, which this was before it became super
• 53:20
  popular. Now I imagine it's like awful
• 53:23
  but back then this is like 2013. It was, it was a look.
• 53:27
  I mean Bulgaria's beautiful as lovely as nice but it was, it
• 53:33
  was one of those. Package holidays.
• 53:37
  And I mean that, the Quran, they were good parts of it.
• 53:39
  We got like an all-inclusive deal where we had like free food
• 53:42
  and free alcohol and it was, it was a decent hotel us four star
• 53:45
  hotels. It was, you know, all of that
• 53:47
  was great but the actual just being on a beach element and
• 53:52
  like, being around all the clubs and stuff like I should have
• 53:55
  enjoyed this as a young person at a time.
• 53:57
  I think was like 19 or something but I remember just being on the
• 54:00
  beach for like half an hour and just being bored and I was like
• 54:02
  well what now like Maybe that's just the type of person I am let
• 54:06
  you know, I'm just more. I need to do activities.
• 54:08
  All right, fine, but I just never understood.
• 54:11
  Like, okay, I'm gonna do this week-long holiday and I'm just
• 54:16
  gonna sit on a beach for a week. I didn't get that either.
• 54:20
  You know, before I moved to Hawaii I was living in Los
• 54:23
  Angeles and I go to the beach occasionally but it's like no
• 54:26
  big, whoop, you know. And people from l.a. are known
• 54:30
  to go to Hawaii around Christmas so they can sit and lay on the
• 54:34
  beach and I thought while What an amazing waste of time so I
• 54:41
  never got it and I understand people digging the be.
• 54:44
  Yeah. But to fly from a beach city
• 54:47
  like La where you can get to a beach in 30 minutes or spend
• 54:52
  thousands of dollars in fly. Thousands of miles to sit on
• 54:55
  someone else's Beach makes little.
• 54:57
  If any sense when you put it in that tub, it just seems really
• 55:01
  odd about the idea of a beach. Today.
• 55:05
  I know I'm really pounding on people that like beach days.
• 55:08
  Look, there's nothing. There's nothing wrong with on
• 55:09
  the beach day, right? But just I don't get like having
• 55:11
  a whole week of it. Like just seems like over get
• 55:13
  like too much of a good thing is always a bad thing.
• 55:16
  You know. It doesn't matter what it is.
• 55:17
  It's just I think that this is what I learned about with me and
• 55:21
  holidays is I think the wit one week off is kind of The Sweet
• 55:25
  Spot maybe a week and a half, two weeks, just feels like too
• 55:29
  much. I just get but that's that's
• 55:33
  just me as a human being. I like I'm a bit of a
• 55:35
  workaholic, that's just how I roll but I just, I don't know.
• 55:39
  I think obviously a big part of it is always going to be the
• 55:41
  type of person you are and what you resonate with and we don't
• 55:44
  resonate with but yeah just not for not for me, not for me.
• 55:49
  I'm the same way. You know, of course though I've
• 55:52
  had opportunities to travel and I take full advantage of it but
• 55:55
  I don't travel with groups of other Americans.
• 56:00
  So I Travel with you know my waifu past girlfriends and that
• 56:03
  kind of thing and that is a lot of fun when you can get down on
• 56:06
  the ground and explore. But I'm also you'd never believe
• 56:09
  it but I'm also kind of introverted I'd light up when
• 56:14
  I'm with people that I enjoy but I did my time at home.
• 56:18
  I like laying on the couch watching sports or watching a
• 56:21
  show or sitting in writing and you know spending time with the
• 56:25
  kitty cats and that kind of thing, listening to music,
• 56:27
  whatever it might be you can't always Always be on, but some
• 56:31
  people Force themselves to always be on.
• 56:34
  I don't think that's great. Nah, that was something
• 56:38
  interesting to happen that I think I've said this on the show
• 56:40
  before. So apologies from repeating
• 56:42
  myself, but during covid, I noticed there were a lot of
• 56:46
  people who are extroverted who are having a really difficult
• 56:49
  time with it and I don't get me wrong, I I sympathize with them,
• 56:53
  it must be difficult to have, you know, these things.
• 56:57
  Take it away from you that you really enjoy and my legs.
• 57:00
  It's a cramp mode right now while I'm doing my podcast.
• 57:04
  Just inconvenient, go ahead, go ahead besides yourself.
• 57:07
  No no no, no. Like when people are used to
• 57:13
  going out all the time and meeting people get getting the
• 57:16
  energy of the place and then now they're not able to do that and
• 57:20
  they have to just constantly be at home.
• 57:23
  That is suffocating II. Totally understand that because
• 57:27
  I'll be ecologically. We've all been we've all
• 57:30
  benefited. Affected.
• 57:31
  We and many, many people have been very messed up by not being
• 57:34
  able to go out and look, someone in the eye and shake hands.
• 57:38
  When was the last time you shook someone's hand?
• 57:39
  You know? Oh, and we're given someone a
• 57:42
  hug. Right there was an american guy
• 57:44
  at the bar the other day, that did that.
• 57:46
  And I hesitated, I shook his hand, I waited until he left and
• 57:51
  then I immediately grab that side of tux Machines.
• 58:01
  Yeah, but I'm going to go into the Basin and wash my hands.
• 58:06
  Well, we have them just at the bar like in bottles, like just
• 58:10
  the standard now, which I think is good.
• 58:13
  It's good to have that stuff there.
• 58:14
  Now it's just, you know, which in turn requires, it's in our
• 58:18
  pocket. It's in ladies handbags with,
• 58:20
  you know, the sanitizing lotion is everywhere and it's here to
• 58:24
  stay. As are the masks it appears.
• 58:27
  I remember, I dated a girl in high school who she was a little
• 58:33
  bit OCD but like not in a, you know, nothing wrong with her or
• 58:36
  anything. She just happened to be like
• 58:39
  that and I remember she'd always carry around a little bottle of
• 58:42
  hand sanitizer. And she told me that, like, a
• 58:45
  lot of people would Mark her for that.
• 58:46
  And I always just laugh at like, how things have turned out now.
• 58:51
  And like, she must have probably got a bit of a chuckle out of
• 58:54
  that. I gotta see.
• 58:55
  He thought I was crazy, but look what's happened now?
• 59:00
  She's way. Ahead of her time that one I
• 59:03
  just thought I was pretty good. I like same thing.
• 59:07
  You know, the same thing with the masks.
• 59:09
  Remember how we would initially feel when we saw someone wearing
• 59:13
  a massacre, why are you wearing a mask and and then they were
• 59:17
  weighed ahead of their time as well.
• 59:19
  And apparently like in Asia, they've been wearing masks for
• 59:22
  20 years or so because of pollution really related
• 59:26
  reasons. Yeah.
• 59:27
  And also they do it which I didn't know until recently.
• 59:30
  Only they do it as local preventative measure protective
• 59:34
  measures. Sorry.
• 59:36
  So if you, let's say, you've got the cold or the flu, you would
• 59:39
  wear them wear a mask to protect others.
• 59:41
  If you had to go out you to protect others, I always just
• 59:44
  thought that was pretty cool. Despite it being like an odd
• 59:48
  behavior as far as a western perspective.
• 59:52
  When I learn about those are, that's cool.
• 59:53
  That's a considerate thing to do.
• 59:55
  You know, it's not like us where we just go in the office and
• 59:57
  make everyone L like Jack Lee. And part of the reason for that
• 1:00:02
  is that, you know, you can't afford to miss a day's pay.
• 1:00:07
  And yeah, or she's up to go even when you're ill.
• 1:00:09
  And so there's a, it's kind of a weird system.
• 1:00:12
  I know your system is different than ours, but with the same
• 1:00:15
  when it comes to that way. Yeah.
• 1:00:18
  So you know, it's tough people. People are pulled and pushed in
• 1:00:21
  so many different directions and so they don't know exactly what
• 1:00:23
  to do and so they risk it and they'll cough all over you.
• 1:00:26
  And then, that's no fun. Yeah, no one wants to be caught.
• 1:00:30
  I've done it all. What would you say was your most
• 1:00:36
  memorable experience as a chef? Well, you know, after I was in
• 1:00:42
  London learning and I came back to the States, I hired an agent
• 1:00:49
  and yes chefs have agents. And so she booked me with some
• 1:00:54
  really fantastic people. So I got to cook for a lot of
• 1:00:57
  the rock bands that I previously had traveled with.
• 1:00:59
  I did, Amazing for the Eagles and Fleetwood Mac.
• 1:01:04
  Wow. Oh my God.
• 1:01:07
  And so, that's what I did prior to being a chef here and so I
• 1:01:10
  ended up cooking for a lot of those bands.
• 1:01:12
  And that was pretty memorable stuff.
• 1:01:15
  And I got to cook for Robin Williams and the producer of Top
• 1:01:18
  Gun and Flashdance and all these major Hollywood type
• 1:01:22
  celebrities, but the rock and roll days were really very cool
• 1:01:25
  for me. Okay, wow, any interesting?
• 1:01:30
  I'm eating habits from Ideo celebrities that you met only
• 1:01:33
  thing that stands out. I would cook whatever they ask
• 1:01:39
  me to cook. And so okay wasn't judging them
• 1:01:42
  at that time. Because I was just this little
• 1:01:45
  puny know-it-all nothing Chef who bed.
• 1:01:49
  So I would, when we were on tour, I would go into the hotel
• 1:01:54
  kitchens and I would be able to use the kitchens at the hotels
• 1:01:57
  and cook for these famous celebrities up in the top floors
• 1:02:00
  and all That. And so, you know, that kind of a
• 1:02:03
  lifestyle is pretty wild the whole drugs, sex and rock and
• 1:02:07
  roll thing that they were living.
• 1:02:09
  And that I was kind of like slightly connected to, but I was
• 1:02:13
  feeding them at that time and so getting to travel and be a part
• 1:02:17
  of that was was pretty wild all by itself.
• 1:02:21
  Were there any? Okay you must have like met
• 1:02:24
  them? Maybe like some of them would
• 1:02:25
  have said Thank you, or maybe some of them rude or like any
• 1:02:28
  was there any kind of interactions you had with any of
• 1:02:31
  these celebrities that's that are, you know, they were all
• 1:02:35
  pretty much friendlier than you think was gonna happen.
• 1:02:39
  When people are always at that high level, we have this
• 1:02:42
  misperception that they're going to be mean, or whatever.
• 1:02:46
  But one thing I could say, That people who are famous and Rich
• 1:02:50
  are lousy tippers compared to regular folks, like you and me.
• 1:02:55
  Interesting. Yeah.
• 1:02:58
  I wonder why that is, is because they expect everything to be
• 1:03:01
  given to them. It's a weird kind of
• 1:03:04
  psychological thing, but when they attain that kind of
• 1:03:06
  success, they expect that everyone's going to cater to
• 1:03:09
  them and that they're going to get everything given to them for
• 1:03:12
  free. That is bizarre.
• 1:03:15
  I don't understand that. Like, I don't get that at all.
• 1:03:20
  I know you're the kind of person who's like it when you make your
• 1:03:22
  money, you'll like be more generous and oh yeah, more
• 1:03:26
  people and yeah, spread the word.
• 1:03:28
  Expect like 500 pound or dollar tips when I become a celebrity,
• 1:03:33
  right? Exactly that.
• 1:03:35
  That's what I dream of to. I want to be able to give those
• 1:03:37
  kinds of tips for fun. Here's a month's wages.
• 1:03:41
  Thanks for the sandwich, right? Exactly.
• 1:03:45
  Thanks for the Bud. Light, never never.
• 1:03:48
  Never right. I'm listening.
• 1:03:49
  So that we have caused our bar and I'm always whenever
• 1:03:55
  someone's asked one, I'm like usual.
• 1:03:58
  I don't know why anybody would go to Europe, which is known for
• 1:04:03
  wonderful beer and Ales and all that and order a crappy American
• 1:04:07
  beard. Makes no sense.
• 1:04:09
  Come on. It kind of goes back to what we
• 1:04:11
  were talking about earlier. About commercialism people go
• 1:04:13
  for what? They know.
• 1:04:14
  Not, what is good? Oh yeah, I caught like I've
• 1:04:18
  discovered over the years that all most of the commercial
• 1:04:22
  drinks are not very good and when it comes to alcohol,
• 1:04:26
  soaked, a couple of things. so when I was living in Europe, I
• 1:04:31
  discovered the Like vodka. Was its best when it was Russian
• 1:04:37
  or Ukrainian vodka, like, and lesser known Brands as well.
• 1:04:41
  And you wouldn't, you'd never get a hangover ever.
• 1:04:45
  It was really pure, you'd wake up, feeling amazing the next
• 1:04:49
  day. Just absolutely, obviously, you
• 1:04:52
  need to eat and, you know, do what you need to do, but you, it
• 1:04:55
  would be absolutely incredible. And the same is true in the UK
• 1:04:59
  and Scotland, Cask strength whiskey.
• 1:05:02
  I've gone on the but this perforce, apologies, but But
• 1:05:06
  most Whiskey's commercial whiskies are about 37 percent.
• 1:05:10
  I think 37.5 percent alcohol content but these ones I like
• 1:05:14
  50%. And not only is it heavier
• 1:05:17
  alcohol content but you immediately taste the difference
• 1:05:21
  because those commercial ones have this horrible kind of like
• 1:05:25
  chemical taste to them. They all taste the same, it's
• 1:05:28
  awful but then these hot core strength ones just taste It was
• 1:05:32
  infused with like, real flavor and it's incredible and I so
• 1:05:36
  that kind of tipped me off to this idea that.
• 1:05:38
  Okay, the problem that we have is that most of the commercial
• 1:05:43
  alcohols just aren't at that quality level.
• 1:05:47
  You know, the the and of course, like they're mass-produced like
• 1:05:49
  just like anything in life this mass-produced.
• 1:05:51
  Generally speaking, the quality's not always going to be
• 1:05:53
  there, it's not always the case but you know Corners will be cut
• 1:05:58
  in order to get it out to the masses.
• 1:06:01
  Yeah, they're rushed the rest systems and it's lower quality
• 1:06:06
  and they have to get it to Market.
• 1:06:07
  So it's always going to be a little bit different than
• 1:06:10
  someone who takes the time and care to make a great product.
• 1:06:13
  Like, you know, great Whiskey's are aged in Oak for a reason and
• 1:06:17
  they don't have chemical Colours and chemical flavors, put into
• 1:06:21
  it. Someone takes their time to make
• 1:06:22
  an artisan product. And, you know, then they release
• 1:06:26
  it at what they have, not promising to release 10 times
• 1:06:30
  more than they have. And Make it artificial, a
• 1:06:34
  physical make a decision. Whenever you create an alcohol
• 1:06:36
  or any kind of product, is this going to be a high-quality
• 1:06:39
  product or do? I just want to sell a lot of it,
• 1:06:46
  going back to the whole vodka thing, you know, vodka was
• 1:06:48
  originally invented to be odorless and tasteless.
• 1:06:53
  And it really has to do with the filtration process, to get it to
• 1:06:58
  be as good as possible because really when they've said, It
• 1:07:01
  down so-called experts and they lined up a whole bunch of
• 1:07:05
  unnamed on unpackaged, vodkas for people.
• 1:07:09
  The experts can tell just like with wine.
• 1:07:12
  Same thing, people are thrown off guard when they don't see
• 1:07:15
  the label, then they can't tell the difference.
• 1:07:19
  The pilot is just not good enough unlike yours but I can't
• 1:07:32
  stomach a lot of this commercial stuff like.
• 1:07:34
  Yeah I think you know, I'm very snobby when it comes to that
• 1:07:37
  stuff and I think I think everyone should be a snob when
• 1:07:40
  it comes to these things you know.
• 1:07:42
  And I'm not talking like oh I'm better than you.
• 1:07:44
  I know more than you I mean more like expect high quality expect
• 1:07:48
  More from products, always expect more as well.
• 1:07:52
  I reckon I think that's a good idea.
• 1:07:54
  It's definitely a good philosophy to have if nothing
• 1:07:56
  else. You refer to yourself as a
• 1:08:00
  people specialist on LinkedIn, what is a people specialist?
• 1:08:06
  Someone who can handle compliments as someone who can
• 1:08:11
  handle distress and confrontations and things like
• 1:08:16
  that in in a nice way? Way.
• 1:08:19
  So, you know, I've never really had to solve any of my issues or
• 1:08:23
  any of the issues surrounding me or my businesses with this to
• 1:08:25
  Cuts. It's always been through good
• 1:08:27
  clear communication. And I think that's what the
• 1:08:31
  first steps are in becoming people Specialists dealing with
• 1:08:35
  folks and their concerns. Because after all, when you boil
• 1:08:38
  it all down, we're all pretty much the same.
• 1:08:40
  Mmm. That's right.
• 1:08:41
  That's where I start. Absolutely.
• 1:08:46
  During your time as a food writer in a restaurant critic,
• 1:08:50
  you coined the phrase convergence technology.
• 1:08:53
  What is Convergence technology? Well, that was a term that I
• 1:08:56
  made up back in the late 90s and I brought it up to the publisher
• 1:09:02
  and editor and they're like the gods of newspapers and I set a
• 1:09:07
  meeting with them. And I sat down and I said, you
• 1:09:09
  know, this internet thing which I had already been on For the
• 1:09:13
  better part of 10 years because I got started in 92 with poem
• 1:09:18
  website called love life radio. And I said this internet thing
• 1:09:23
  is going to be shifting and I think that print media like
• 1:09:27
  newspapers like the building were sitting in right now is not
• 1:09:30
  going to be around much longer. And I said, I think we ought to
• 1:09:34
  go to the internet and start putting out the information in
• 1:09:36
  the news as much as possible and I tried to explain to them what
• 1:09:41
  was coming but they did live. And, and here we are now with
• 1:09:45
  80% of newspapers, out of business crazy, isn't it?
• 1:09:49
  But they thought that way like I didn't get it.
• 1:09:53
  I remember seeing it an interview with Jeremy Paxman and
• 1:09:59
  he's interviewing David Bowie in like 1998, 99, something like
• 1:10:04
  that. And Bowie very ahead of his
• 1:10:06
  time. As far as like, his mind
• 1:10:08
  sentence and such always just in general, but he was giving a
• 1:10:12
  kind of An account of what he reckoned, the internet was, and
• 1:10:15
  was going to become, and he was spot-on with it, but Paxman just
• 1:10:19
  thought he was crazy. Was like what the internet
• 1:10:22
  becoming this bitwise? Poppycock, isn't it?
• 1:10:24
  And of course, it wasn't. It became the thing as it
• 1:10:28
  because, of course, it's going to become like that.
• 1:10:30
  You know, you were always fascinated with the new thing,
• 1:10:34
  that's what we're always fascinated with.
• 1:10:35
  And while we always do Marvel at the past and what has happened,
• 1:10:39
  the fact of the matter is, the new thing is always going to be
• 1:10:43
  the thing that grabs most people's attention generally
• 1:10:46
  speaking. Oh yeah.
• 1:10:47
  And you know, Bowie was way ahead of his time because I
• 1:10:50
  think he understood the impact that the internet was going to
• 1:10:53
  have a non-musical property and because in the old days, people
• 1:10:57
  had to sell the vinyl or the CDs and they had to get on the
• 1:11:00
  radio. And so the whole music industry
• 1:11:03
  has been turned on its head because of the internet.
• 1:11:06
  And so the Everything Has Changed It's crazy.
• 1:11:10
  Yeah, do you think that technology is has benefited
• 1:11:15
  Hospitality or ruined their or because I know we briefly spoke
• 1:11:19
  a little bit earlier about how, you know, it might change it in
• 1:11:22
  the future and stuff like that. But just over the years like do
• 1:11:25
  you think it's been a benefit or or detractor?
• 1:11:30
  I think technology has helped out at least behind the scenes
• 1:11:34
  and being able to process customers and business and be
• 1:11:38
  able to give people the opportunity to Market and
• 1:11:40
  advertise and promote. So it's something we all have to
• 1:11:44
  get used to and, you know, a website 15 years ago was like,
• 1:11:49
  what? And now it's like, where's my
• 1:11:51
  website? It's right here.
• 1:11:53
  And you know, you see the UPC codes and you see the everything
• 1:11:57
  and and websites, it's amazing. It's a part of our everyday
• 1:12:01
  right now. I don't know stuff, but as far
• 1:12:05
  as hospitality is just, that's what such a big picture because
• 1:12:10
  it's a huge corporations that are, that are running it, and
• 1:12:13
  they have to change with the times as well.
• 1:12:16
  So a lot of that old-fashioned thinking just won't work
• 1:12:18
  anymore. I don't know that.
• 1:12:20
  The corporations are necessarily always winning to be fair as
• 1:12:23
  well, because I feel like small businesses, small restaurants,
• 1:12:27
  you know, there's always talk in the news, but how like or, you
• 1:12:30
  know, they're going to close down.
• 1:12:31
  They're going to be impacted by the big businesses.
• 1:12:33
  But like there, they always seem to be more appealing than an
• 1:12:37
  attractive. Then like, you know, your
• 1:12:39
  commercial businesses that they will always have an audience,
• 1:12:41
  don't get me wrong, but it's like I read somewhere that
• 1:12:44
  McDonald's again. Sorry to use this example but
• 1:12:47
  it's just because it's so it's everywhere, it's standardized
• 1:12:51
  whatever, right? And I remember reading the in
• 1:12:53
  the mid 2010's, how their Rebrand, remember, when they
• 1:12:57
  briefly sort of Market themselves, as like a coffee
• 1:12:59
  place which was odd? Oh yeah, they do.
• 1:13:03
  It was during that phase. We also were a salad place for a
• 1:13:05
  while. Yeah, they kind of lost their
• 1:13:08
  identity a little bit there. They close down a bunch of
• 1:13:10
  stores or restaurants and whatnot.
• 1:13:12
  And it happens to every business, but they're going
• 1:13:15
  through the same thing again right now.
• 1:13:18
  They're closed and businesses and it happens, you know, you
• 1:13:21
  have to kind of constantly reinvent yourself because the
• 1:13:23
  world is always changing and you have to change with it as you
• 1:13:26
  mentioned before. But when you're like a big
• 1:13:29
  business like that, like at the end of the day, there's always
• 1:13:32
  going to be a time limit. These things there's always
• 1:13:34
  going to be like, okay, that was then, this is now and I don't
• 1:13:39
  know that like those commercial businesses will continue to have
• 1:13:41
  the same power as they once had an especially since there's more
• 1:13:47
  of a drive towards local produce local businesses, you constantly
• 1:13:51
  hear about that now. And it's yeah, just seems more
• 1:13:55
  appealing there will always be a place for the McDonald's at the
• 1:13:59
  world but you know, it's interesting Christian that I
• 1:14:02
  just learned Earned within the past year or so that one of the
• 1:14:05
  big corporate McDonald's Executives said we're not a
• 1:14:10
  restaurant business. Yet we're a real estate
• 1:14:13
  business. They make their money off of the
• 1:14:17
  franchisees, who are paying them all kinds of money for their
• 1:14:22
  opportunity to run a restaurant. And so McDonald's actually
• 1:14:26
  classifies themselves more as a real-estate company than, as a
• 1:14:30
  food company. Yeah, I discovered It's true.
• 1:14:34
  That movie in 2015, the founder of the get schooled starring.
• 1:14:38
  Michael Keaton, amazing movie for anyone who hasn't seen it.
• 1:14:41
  Go and see it. It talks about how McDonald's
• 1:14:46
  was originally created by the two brothers and it was legit
• 1:14:49
  restaurant but they had this amazing kind of approach to to
• 1:14:54
  fast food back in the forties or fifties.
• 1:14:57
  Sorry. And then it kind of was acquired
• 1:15:00
  by this guy coming for his name. Something Pringle, something
• 1:15:04
  like that. I think his name was and he, as
• 1:15:08
  you say, then turned it into a retail business.
• 1:15:11
  So, not retail business, a property business, which Real
• 1:15:15
  Estate. Sorry.
• 1:15:16
  And that just blows my mind because for those who don't tip
• 1:15:20
  to break it down in a very straightforward way, every site
• 1:15:24
  that might Donald zones, They own the land.
• 1:15:28
  They make their money from leasing to the franchisees.
• 1:15:32
  So any store that you see will be leased by whoever's the
• 1:15:38
  running that particular store and they're leasing from
• 1:15:40
  McDonald's. The corporation who are real
• 1:15:43
  estate developers /? Constantly purchasing they're
• 1:15:47
  probably one of the biggest landowners in the world to put
• 1:15:50
  into perspective. I think you're right.
• 1:15:52
  And, you know, not only that, but all the product at
• 1:15:56
  McDonald's, Ends up serving through that franchise is all
• 1:16:00
  being paid for by the franchisees to the McDonald's
• 1:16:03
  corporation. So they're making McDonald's
• 1:16:05
  making money hand and fist. But mostly like you said because
• 1:16:10
  of the real estate, It's crazy to think about is like imagine
• 1:16:16
  renting something and being told exactly what you have to do
• 1:16:20
  constantly and there's no wiggle room to do it your way that you
• 1:16:25
  have to do it the way you're told.
• 1:16:27
  It's like yeah sure you can make the argument that yeah we get
• 1:16:31
  access to all these these products and, you know, the
• 1:16:34
  existing, you dare to come out of a new company name, or logo
• 1:16:38
  or anything, everything is taken care of for you, or for you.
• 1:16:41
  But if the company randomly Sighs to just change stuff and
• 1:16:44
  it turns out worse you have to deal with that.
• 1:16:48
  Yeah, it's time they set the rules and, you know, part of
• 1:16:53
  becoming a franchise owner is to accept the rules of these
• 1:16:57
  50-page contracts that the big corporations put out there.
• 1:17:01
  So if you want to operate on a day-by-day basis, you have to
• 1:17:04
  hire the way that they do and you have to use their food and
• 1:17:07
  you have to pay the lease on the land and the it's you know, it's
• 1:17:12
  the poor. Ends way to doing something
• 1:17:13
  creative. You did you worked briefly as a
• 1:17:20
  communication specialist? What advice could you give on
• 1:17:23
  how to become a better Communicator?
• 1:17:26
  Well, a lot of it being a communication specialist is
• 1:17:29
  trying to teach your bosses had a had a clearly put across a
• 1:17:32
  message and and then be able to take a message that's coming
• 1:17:37
  from your bosses and then be able to filter it out and
• 1:17:40
  deliver it to your potential consumers.
• 1:17:44
  So yeah, being a good communication.
• 1:17:46
  This person combines a lot of technique and a lot of marketing
• 1:17:50
  efforts and advertising knowledge and people knowledge
• 1:17:53
  once again, it always keeps coming back to the same thing.
• 1:17:56
  Christian, you know, when those key things in life, they remain
• 1:18:02
  constant and true. Don't they?
• 1:18:04
  And you see them pop up anywhere in life.
• 1:18:05
  Like, for instance, I, I go to the gym, right?
• 1:18:09
  And the amount of things I've learned in the gym that just
• 1:18:14
  apply to just life in general. Yeah, he quotes and whatnot and
• 1:18:18
  just ways of doing things. And it's like, kind of amazing
• 1:18:23
  when you really think about it, how everything is sort of
• 1:18:25
  connected. I'll bet distantly but it's all
• 1:18:28
  connected. You know.
• 1:18:29
  It's a. You just made me think of
• 1:18:31
  something. It's probably out totally
• 1:18:32
  unrelated. Okay.
• 1:18:33
  If I share it, please do you know the way that people drive
• 1:18:38
  is just such a crazy day to day experience, if you're out there
• 1:18:41
  on the roads and I know that you guys use public transport a lot
• 1:18:44
  more than we do, but the way people, People drive it very,
• 1:18:47
  very rude and dangerous, sometimes, but if you weren't in
• 1:18:50
  the grocery shop and someone drove their cart, like, the way
• 1:18:54
  they drive their car people would be they'd be killing each
• 1:18:58
  other in the aisles. Yes, you know, you just have to
• 1:19:02
  be nice. You know.
• 1:19:03
  It's why is that such a big major problem for people?
• 1:19:08
  I also kind of begs the question that, why is behavior accepted
• 1:19:11
  in one instance? But not in another like, for
• 1:19:13
  argument's sake. Let's take your analogy.
• 1:19:14
  Let's say that people ran around the supermarket like they do in
• 1:19:19
  the cars hitting each other. Like as you say would be here
• 1:19:22
  will be chaos if you have it is like going to a supermarket
• 1:19:25
  would be hellscape and it already is you know it's just
• 1:19:31
  it's interesting, I don't know I think People in the road, like,
• 1:19:38
  I don't drive, but yeah, I've been a pedestrian.
• 1:19:40
  My whole life and something like, a lot of the time.
• 1:19:43
  It's fine. You know, you follow the, we
• 1:19:47
  call it the Green Cross code, I don't even know if they still
• 1:19:49
  exist, but if you're if you're sensible with you know how you
• 1:19:51
  cross streets and stuff like that, you'll probably be fine.
• 1:19:53
  But sometimes you know there are just people that are crazy.
• 1:19:57
  They drive around like that as and you know, you get accidents
• 1:20:00
  happen and it's like, oh yeah. How do you How do you navigate
• 1:20:04
  that and if you're on the road and you're a driver to and
• 1:20:07
  you're having to kind of navigate this, it's like every
• 1:20:09
  day you go out and drive your risk essentially.
• 1:20:15
  So the real, yeah. And also, you know, just
• 1:20:19
  people's basic knowledge. So many people are scared to
• 1:20:22
  fly. Let's say, hmm and they feel
• 1:20:24
  safe driving. And yet when you take a look at
• 1:20:27
  the statistical numbers, you'd see they're driving as I really
• 1:20:30
  dangerous compared to flying on the per mile basis and all that.
• 1:20:34
  But he's so that that's that's all about how we think you know
• 1:20:38
  we we think something we am because we think it must be
• 1:20:41
  true, but that case right? You mentioned earlier that you
• 1:20:46
  were a radio host and To view for the love life, radio
• 1:20:50
  network. So I got to ask what were your
• 1:20:52
  kind of most memorable experiences and life lessons
• 1:20:55
  that you sort of took away from your time as a radio host?
• 1:20:59
  Well you know I started radio a lot longer before love live
• 1:21:04
  radio love life. Radio was in Honolulu here
• 1:21:07
  during the 90s and cool. We were one of the very first
• 1:21:11
  radio programs that was broadcast over this new thing
• 1:21:14
  called the internet and that show.
• 1:21:18
  Show was focused on love relationship sex travel food,
• 1:21:23
  all the good things in life, not religion, or politics.
• 1:21:27
  So we talked about all of those great things, but even before
• 1:21:30
  that back in Los Angeles, I did shows one of the first shows I
• 1:21:35
  did was Matthew. The Primetime stuff where I went
• 1:21:37
  to a big hot young radio station and we take calls from listeners
• 1:21:43
  and the whole object of this game was to have the listeners.
• 1:21:48
  All the in with the reason why? I as the chef should drive to
• 1:21:53
  their house, while the show is on the air and go and cook for
• 1:21:56
  them in the middle of the night, quite often.
• 1:21:59
  And so, it was a really fun and a contest game that we did live
• 1:22:03
  on the air, Matthew, The Primetime Chef.
• 1:22:05
  So, we would the four or five of us in the studio would be taking
• 1:22:09
  all the calls from our from our listeners.
• 1:22:11
  And, you know, people would be giving reasons why I should
• 1:22:14
  leave the station now and come cook for you.
• 1:22:16
  So, I would cook in the middle of an emergency, Ward at a
• 1:22:20
  hospital one time. They won.
• 1:22:23
  One time, I went to a police precinct and I cook for all the
• 1:22:25
  cops aboard. Their one time I went to one of
• 1:22:28
  those little cubicle gas stations and cook for that
• 1:22:31
  person in there. One time, I went to a young
• 1:22:34
  lady's house, who's doing her laundry in the middle of the
• 1:22:37
  night. And so there were a lot of very
• 1:22:39
  interesting things would happen in my radio career, that was
• 1:22:42
  just one of the first shows that I did and then I went on to do
• 1:22:46
  midnight Rendezvous, which is a Night interview, show like your
• 1:22:49
  show, really, really thoughtful and sweet, and nice and, you
• 1:22:54
  know, I've just been in radio pretty much my whole life.
• 1:22:56
  So it's been a long time. And now, I'm thinking about
• 1:22:59
  eventually starting my own podcast because yes, how much
• 1:23:03
  success and fun you're having, it's going to say like you got
• 1:23:08
  so much to talk about so much, you really live, like a very
• 1:23:12
  interesting life. So I think you people would love
• 1:23:14
  to see a show. Come out of you, nothing.
• 1:23:16
  I'll be definitely be. A show, I'd listened to you, for
• 1:23:19
  sure. If you live long enough
• 1:23:21
  Christian, you get to build a big resume, you know, I've
• 1:23:25
  already built a pretty fairly big one right now.
• 1:23:28
  Like one thing people are really, really, lovely online.
• 1:23:33
  And I've got some lovely friends, online and followers.
• 1:23:36
  And sometimes people will say things like You're a good
• 1:23:40
  Storyteller and I think about the fact that like, I've taken
• 1:23:44
  the last couple of years to really work on For instance,
• 1:23:49
  being a presenter, you know, like I do regular livestreams.
• 1:23:53
  I've been doing this podcast now for about two years.
• 1:23:56
  When I first started doing this stuff, I was really nervous.
• 1:23:59
  Like I didn't know how to be how to naturally present, because
• 1:24:04
  it's not a normal thing. Like this, this is not like a
• 1:24:06
  normal conversation, like there are elements to it that are
• 1:24:09
  normal, but it's still, you still present in your trying to
• 1:24:12
  put on your best version of yourself.
• 1:24:14
  And I've always tried to lace authenticity.
• 1:24:17
  Petit in that like I want it to be as authentic as it can be
• 1:24:21
  without just being a body conversation where we're just
• 1:24:23
  sitting and shooting. But I'm not going to say the
• 1:24:26
  word. But you know I mean I'll come
• 1:24:28
  and say the word shooting the shit, right?
• 1:24:33
  Because the reality is like it's two different Vibes but I really
• 1:24:37
  wanted to go for like a show that is conversational but still
• 1:24:43
  somewhat professional and ordered and structured because
• 1:24:47
  that's another As well as like having a good structure in a
• 1:24:49
  format and something that flows naturally that you can listen
• 1:24:53
  to. But I guess my point with all of
• 1:24:55
  this is it takes time to kind of build that confidence in
• 1:24:58
  yourself to be able to do that. And then also to be able to talk
• 1:25:03
  about things, you got a live, you've got to go out there and
• 1:25:07
  do stuff and live and accumulate stories and then find a way to
• 1:25:11
  be able to then tell those stories in a sort of a
• 1:25:15
  compelling way. And that I don't know that
• 1:25:18
  there's necessarily an easy way to kind of explain how to do
• 1:25:23
  that. I think everyone, everyone has
• 1:25:24
  their own way of doing it. Like for example, two of my
• 1:25:28
  absolute favorite storytellers, wartime, completely different
• 1:25:31
  Industries. You've got Jim cornette in the
• 1:25:34
  wrestling business. He's a historian of wrestling.
• 1:25:37
  He's been everything like a on-air Talent, a promoter, you
• 1:25:41
  name it, he's done it. And he is amazing to listen to
• 1:25:44
  funny, witty, quick off the line.
• 1:25:48
  Is he? And I think he's in his 60s, and
• 1:25:50
  he's still sharp as ever. It's incredible.
• 1:25:53
  And then, on the other side, you've got like someone like
• 1:25:55
  Dave Chappelle comedian, who is just like, I don't know if you
• 1:25:59
  see his shows now. Like, he's not even really doing
• 1:26:01
  comedy anymore. He's just telling stories and
• 1:26:03
  it's just compelling, but he just, he just talks.
• 1:26:06
  And it's amazing to listen to. Yeah, some of those guys are
• 1:26:09
  great. I mean, and that's the maturity
• 1:26:11
  of their their wonderful abilities.
• 1:26:14
  Over a long period of time, right?
• 1:26:16
  I think it all comes down to confidence when you when that
• 1:26:19
  little kind of flicker in your head just kind of changes one,
• 1:26:24
  then you realize. Hey, I'm just going to be me and
• 1:26:28
  let's just see what happens. Like, I'm not going to worry
• 1:26:31
  anymore. What people think about me.
• 1:26:33
  I'm not going to worry if they like it.
• 1:26:35
  They just like it because that which whatever you do.
• 1:26:37
  People are going to hate it either way.
• 1:26:39
  Love it either way. Like so you might as well just
• 1:26:41
  be you and do what feels right and natural, you know, and
• 1:26:45
  that's great advice. Ice.
• 1:26:46
  That's the thing. Like I know it's what I find
• 1:26:48
  really interesting is like sometimes I meet people for the
• 1:26:51
  first time and we just click and it's like, you can just you can
• 1:26:56
  just talk for it. Like I met someone recently.
• 1:26:58
  She's become a good friend of mine and we've only known each
• 1:27:01
  other like a few months now, if that?
• 1:27:04
  But it's like we've known each other all our lives but then
• 1:27:07
  there's other people I trying to do and it's just awkward and I
• 1:27:11
  can't get anything going. And then I start to question
• 1:27:14
  myself on Mike, is there something wrong with me?
• 1:27:16
  My boring and then I'm like, no, it's not that.
• 1:27:19
  It's just, you just click with different people.
• 1:27:22
  And that's, that's it. That's, that's all there is to
• 1:27:24
  it. And it's like this show, you
• 1:27:26
  know, sometimes you get people, come on, you have more of a
• 1:27:29
  rapport and sometimes you don't and that's okay, well, you're
• 1:27:34
  very outgoing. And so I think it says that's a
• 1:27:37
  huge element to be able to present and speak and and, you
• 1:27:42
  know, not necessarily going from the script all the time because
• 1:27:46
  a lot of people will have a script.
• 1:27:47
  I'll follow the last questions based on their script, but
• 1:27:50
  really the key, the magic happens, when you go off script
• 1:27:55
  and there you be real and authentic, like you said, I
• 1:27:58
  mean, that is the greatest part of doing any sort of a
• 1:28:01
  conversation when you with somebody, that's always my hope.
• 1:28:04
  I can again, I've said this before, but like I always have
• 1:28:07
  like questions here and some of them I've lost throughout this
• 1:28:10
  show. But what I'm trying to get, is
• 1:28:12
  the conversation rolling. So that, then I can sort of just
• 1:28:15
  forget about That this is here and just focus.
• 1:28:18
  And then occasionally, I'll just like if I need to shift, I'll
• 1:28:21
  ask a question to get it, get it in a different topic or subject
• 1:28:25
  or whatever will get conversation moving forward.
• 1:28:28
  But yeah, that's what I want and like sometimes there's been,
• 1:28:30
  there's been times when I've done show and I've literally not
• 1:28:33
  asked a single question. I had on my paper it's just been
• 1:28:37
  purely just conversation. I don't know like this they just
• 1:28:40
  like just roll sometimes just rolls on its own right just got
• 1:28:44
  to roll with it man. Okay.
• 1:28:48
  In your you've had a very long career, you've done a lot of
• 1:28:50
  different things. What would you say are the
• 1:28:53
  biggest lessons and takeaways from all of that, you know,
• 1:28:58
  suggesting that I've had a long career is just a nice way of
• 1:29:01
  saying I'm old. No, I know no long and luxurious
• 1:29:11
  and full of many interesting experiences that could offer a
• 1:29:15
  lot of That's what I'm looking for your goodness.
• 1:29:19
  You know, the thing that I've learned most and especially like
• 1:29:22
  now at this stage I'm like in that paid forward mode where I
• 1:29:26
  have a lot of knowledge that I'd like to share because mmm,
• 1:29:31
  Shirley I'm highly unemployable right now but I can share stuff
• 1:29:36
  with people like recently these last three years or so I got
• 1:29:40
  into learning about metabolic health and science related to
• 1:29:44
  the food that we eat and the health.
• 1:29:46
  If people are going through the health situations in issues.
• 1:29:49
  So I've learned a lot about food at a scientific level and I'm
• 1:29:53
  helping people now tweak their diet, get off medications to to
• 1:30:01
  not be obese anymore because he obesity level in your country
• 1:30:06
  and in America is out of control, we're talking about you
• 1:30:10
  know forty to fifty percent of the population are obese and or
• 1:30:15
  have Diabetes in one level or form or another.
• 1:30:19
  So I'm helping people overcome a lot of that stuff with good
• 1:30:23
  really wonderful science. It's going to be helpful.
• 1:30:26
  So that's what I'm doing now on the side and I'm really digging
• 1:30:28
  it. I love those.
• 1:30:30
  Well like no matter what age do you get to in life, there's
• 1:30:35
  always things you can learn and ways you can help people and
• 1:30:40
  like it's like recently that this bar that I work in, right?
• 1:30:45
  I'm one of the There's people there, like most of the people
• 1:30:47
  working, there are between like 1921.
• 1:30:50
  And I'm like, I'm like 29 right now, right?
• 1:30:54
  And I was always that clueless boy that didn't know anything
• 1:30:58
  and was scared of the world and didn't know what to do, right?
• 1:31:02
  And then somewhere during that time I became a man and things
• 1:31:07
  change that. I sort of started trusting
• 1:31:09
  myself and just rolling with it, right?
• 1:31:12
  And now I find myself giving advice that people younger than
• 1:31:17
  me and every once in a while, I have to catch myself and be
• 1:31:20
  like, wait, what, when did I stop being the person that's
• 1:31:25
  able to offer advice Vice, like when did that happen?
• 1:31:28
  But it's like just do the time it is.
• 1:31:32
  There's a time in life when, you know, for the longest time,
• 1:31:34
  you're the youngest person in the room and then you blink your
• 1:31:38
  eyes a few times, and you end up being the oldest person in the
• 1:31:40
  room. And that, that whole wisdom
• 1:31:43
  thing is not necessarily related to age.
• 1:31:46
  It's related to experience and heart and soul.
• 1:31:49
  And obviously that's what you're going through to its incredible,
• 1:31:52
  isn't it? Like, but I like your ethos like
• 1:31:54
  it's always good to give back and look for different ways to
• 1:31:57
  do that. That and and look to keep moving
• 1:31:59
  forward like the journeys, not over till it's over and you
• 1:32:02
  know, there's there's so much more to be learned so much more
• 1:32:04
  to be experienced and yeah man another another bid a bit of
• 1:32:10
  advice or something that I like to share with people besides
• 1:32:14
  trying to get their help thing together, which is really
• 1:32:16
  important is to go after things that kind of stir your creative
• 1:32:23
  Zone. Instead of thinking, this is
• 1:32:27
  going to be a good opportunity. E4 money.
• 1:32:29
  So if you go after something because of the money, chances
• 1:32:32
  are it won't be in any way satisfactory and it won't build
• 1:32:37
  all the important things inside. So you might as well go for the
• 1:32:41
  color and the creative because that can eventually morph itself
• 1:32:46
  into like a much happier existence.
• 1:32:51
  What's the best advice you've ever received?
• 1:32:57
  That's a really good question and I was going to try to be
• 1:33:04
  funny there for a second, but just probably only treat people
• 1:33:12
  in the way that you want to be treated if I'm going to be real
• 1:33:16
  about it and it really results in in a good kind of experience.
• 1:33:21
  When you're with someone, if you do that, Couldn't agree more.
• 1:33:26
  Yeah. And what's the biggest life
• 1:33:29
  lesson you've learned so far? I don't know, you know, these
• 1:33:34
  past couple years, I would definitely question that because
• 1:33:37
  things have changed since covid. So life lessons, I think is just
• 1:33:41
  being able to take care of family and hopefully get taken
• 1:33:45
  care of by family. And making sure that, you know,
• 1:33:48
  your central core existences is safe and healthy and as happy as
• 1:33:54
  you can be, Then you know, as we draw things to a close for
• 1:33:59
  today. Do you have any upcoming
• 1:34:01
  projects or some final thoughts that you'd like to share with
• 1:34:03
  our listeners? I think that if any of the
• 1:34:07
  listeners are having any health issues or are taking medications
• 1:34:12
  that they really don't want to be on anymore or their little
• 1:34:18
  bit chubby and they want some help in the in losing weight and
• 1:34:21
  getting to that healthier point and I would love for you to
• 1:34:25
  reach out. Out and contact me and be happy
• 1:34:28
  to give everybody, you know some of my time and some my expertise
• 1:34:34
  to help people you know, reverse their disease or get off their
• 1:34:37
  meds and eat a healthy diet. And I know it sounds funny
• 1:34:40
  coming from a lifelong chef but I think that that impart really
• 1:34:44
  plays an important role as to what I'm doing now.
• 1:34:47
  Couldn't agree more. Yeah, yeah, thank you so much
• 1:34:51
  for for being a guest on the show.
• 1:34:54
  It's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.
• 1:34:57
  And yeah, we're sure the best for the future and to you too
• 1:35:01
  Christian. I hope to be able to see your
• 1:35:03
  mail be in. Manchester do it soon enough in
• 1:35:05
  the future and maybe go out and have a few, too many?
• 1:35:09
  I would love that. That would be a huge.
• 1:35:12
  I would to thank you so much for inviting.
• 1:35:13
  Me is really a great time and what time is it there?
• 1:35:16
  Now it is 8:45 in the evening. Thank you for having me.
• 1:35:23
  Great show. Thank you, sir.
• 1:35:25
  And to all the listeners of the Christian re podcast, as always
• 1:35:28
  be safe. Be well, and I'll see you in the
• 1:35:31
  next one.