Latest / NO FILTER / Joe Rogan Experience _2401 - Avi Loeb(M4A_128K)

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Joe Rogan Experience _2401 - Avi Loeb(M4A_128K) · NO FILTER

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Your Robin podcast. Check it out, the Joe Logan Experience
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: showing by Day, Joe Rocky Podcast, by Life All Day.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: All right, let's see sir.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Great to be with you.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Just a perfect time to bring you on because things
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: are getting very wild.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a lot of misinformation. You know. Some
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: people said I invented three I atlas this object in
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: order to distract attention from the Epstein files.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Is that what we're saying?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I said, look, this object is the size
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: of Manhattan Island. It's at four and a half times
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: the earthenlane separation. If I was able to put it
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: out there, you know, I would be more powerful than
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: the pope. And because we're talking about a giant object
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: that you can see from any place on Earth, you know,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: you can buy online a telescope that will allow you
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: half a meter in size, that will allow you to
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: see it. It's out there. It cannot be faked.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Well, those people are fools. You can't listen to those people.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: I don't listen to those I don't listen to many people.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Initially a lot of people were dismissing your concerns, and
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: they were saying that this object is nothing but a comment,
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: and it's very normal. But then as it got closer
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: and as we got more data, it seems like you're
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: correct well as a very unusual object.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: There is something really important to recognize here that usually
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: when you deal with scientific matters, they have very little
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: impact on the future of humanity, very little. You know,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: if the nutrino has a little bit of a mass,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: doesn't really matter. You know, when we discovered the Higgs boson,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: the biggest impact was to confirm some idea we had
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: back in the sixties, and you know, obviously that affected
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: you know, those people who got the Nobel price, but
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: most of us continued as if nothing happened. However, here,
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: if we ever encounter alien technology, everything will change. It
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: will affect the financial markets, it will affect politics in
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: a major way. So my point is simple. This is
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: different than other scientific matters, and the intelligence agencies know
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: very well that events with very small probability have to
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: be considered seriously because they could have major implications. Just
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: think about October seventh. The Israeli intelligence agencies had a
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: theory that the Hamas will do nothing, and they got
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: data that indicated something is going on out there. But
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: they dismissed it because of their theory. Now, because as
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: a result of their mistake, which was clearly a blunder,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: a lot of people died on both sides that this
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: could have been avoided if they were to consider a
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: black Swan event, an event that you put a small
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: probability for it happening, but you look at anomalism the
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: data and say, look, the implications are so huge we
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: have to consider it. And you know this idea was
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: already considered by the philosopher mathematician Blessed Pascal. He talked
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: about God and he said, look, of course you might
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: think that God doesn't exist. The probability for that is small,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: but the implications if God exists, the implications are so
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: huge that we have to discuss it. That was the
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: argument Pascal's wager. And the intelligence agencies know that. Believe me,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the Israeli intelligence agencies will not make that mistake again.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Now Here comes an object from outside the solar system
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: and it shows anomalies. The scientists would say, we should
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: be as careful as possible at talking about anything other
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: than a rock. Now they say that when they know
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: that we launched humanity launched a lot of space junk.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: You know, a lot of technological objects to space. And
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: we also know that there are one hundred billion stars
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: like the Sun in the Milky Way Galaxy alone, most
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: of them formed billions of years before the Sun, and
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: there are billions of Earth's sun analogs. Now, we all
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: believe that we came out of a soup of chemicals.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: You know, that's the scientific narrative of how human intelligence
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: came on this Earth. And so it's quite likely that
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: you know, we are not the first one. Sorry to
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: break the news. Elon Musk was probably not the most
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: accomplished space entrepreneur since the Big Bang thirteen point eight
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: billion years ago. And therefore we should consider the possibility
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: that things like us existed long before us. And you
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: can ask the question, how long does it take our
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: own technology, the voyage of spacecraft that we launched out
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: of the Solar System, how long does it take it
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: to move to the opposite side of the Milky Way galaxy?
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: You know, thousands of light years away, takes less than
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: a billionaires. And that means that all these civilizations that
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: had their history initiated billions of years before ours could
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: have done it, and all we need to do is
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: responsible scientists, is to check if among all the rocks
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: that come from outside of our backyard are really rocks,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: or maybe one of these objects might be a tennis
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: ball that was thrown by a neighbor. And the reason
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: I say that is, you know, we live at our home,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: at our on Earth, next to the sun. We look
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: around us in the cosmic street, and we see a
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: lot of houses just like ours. There are billions of them. Probably. Now,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: my colleagues, those scientists who think traditionally, they say, well,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: you know, microbs came to Earth very early, therefore they
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: must be everywhere. So let's define our highest priority searching
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: for microbes on other houses in our cosmic street. And
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: I say, good, you can do that from the vantage
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: point of your home. You can look through the window
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: and search for microbes in your neighbor's yards. But you
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: would need to put ten billion dollars to develop a
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: big enough instrument that would be able to detect the
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: chemical fingerprints of microbes you know, on exoplanets. And think
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: about the possibility that there was, actually there is a
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: resident in one of those houses. You know, that resident
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: might show up in your front door at some point.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Or you might see an object that arrives to your
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: backyard or your mailbox from that resident a black swan event.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Or you might see some construction project in from a
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: distance that might be easier to detect than microbes. So
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: we should hedge our bets, you know, we should invest
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: billions of dollars on both fronts. At the moment, the
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: scientific community is willing to allocate more than ten billion
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: dollars to searching for microbes, but no recommendation is made
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: to allocate any federal funding to the search for intelligence.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: And I say that that is an oversight.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: Now they have found evidence of microbes on Mars.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Correct, well, it's not conclusive. We need to bring materials back.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: It's called sample return, and NASA has plants. We need
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: to bring a sample back to Earth so that in
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: our laboratories we can do isotope analysis and make sure
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: that whatever signatures we see on the rocks there that
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: do look as if they were made by microbes, because
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: we know that Mars had an atmosphere like the Earth.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: By the way, Mars may have had life before the
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Earth because it's a smaller body, so it has a
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: bigger surface area for its mass. The mass of the
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: object tells you how much heat it can retain from
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: the formation process, and then the surface area tells you
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: how fast it can cool. And Mars could have cooled
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: faster than the Earth. So life may have star on
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Mars actually because it had rivers, lakes, oceans of water,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: and it could have been actually delivered to Earth. You know,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: we might be all Martians. And when elon Musk, you know,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: considers going to Mars, it might be the second trip around.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: We might be going back to our childhood home because
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: there were tiny astronauts inside rocks that were chipped off
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: the surface of Mars that arrived to Earth and seeded
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: the Earth with life as we know it. Yeah, and
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: in fact, you know, we can find out if we
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: get this material back to Earth, as NASA is planning
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: to do, hopefully within a decade, then we can make
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: sure that these were microps and perhaps we can infer
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: whether the building blocks of these microbes are similar to
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: the ones we have here on Earth, whether the DNA
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: r and a kind of process took place in both places.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Have you ever done any research on the structural anomalies
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: that are on Mars, The right angles that appear to
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: be a square, this enormous structure.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen the data. It's not conclusive, but it's
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: intriguing because both Mars and the Moon have no atmosphere
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: right now. So what happens on Earth is that when
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: an object roughly the size of a person, you know,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: or smaller, goes through the atmosphere, it burns up, creates
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: a fireball, just like an atomic explosion, you know. And
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: actually you have an object of order e meter colliding
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: with Earth every year. Every year there is an atomic
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: explosion size fireball in our atmosphere. It's not reported in
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the news because it happens pretty high, at an altitude
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: of fifty kilometers, so it doesn't do anything. And you know,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: seventy one percent of the Earth is covered by oceans.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: But yes, so these meteors, and you know, they are
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: quite important. Obviously, we know that the dinosaurs sixty six
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: million years ago were extinguished by a giant impact by
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: an asteroid the size of Manhattan Island, and we are
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: aware by the way that such an impact could endanger us.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: And that's why the US Congress asked NASA to find
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: all objects that come close to Earth with a size
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: bigger than a football field, about one hundred and forty meters,
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: so that we avoid the fate of the dinosaurs. So
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: we think we are smart. We can see these rocks coming.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: But just imagine alien technology. It will not follow a
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: path that you expect if it has some intelligence in it.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: And that's a risk that was never attended to. And
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: I wrote a white paper to the United Nations and
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: to the International Astronomical Union to develop a strategy for
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: monitoring interest objects, objects that come from outside the Solar System,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: like three I atlas that could that show anomalist that
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: could potentially be technological in origin.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: The structures on Mars, like what do you think when
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: you look at them? When you see that one though.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's very intriguing. Both Mars and the Moon
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: have no atmosphere, so the objects that come into them
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: do not burn up as I mentioned before about Earth,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: and therefore they service museums. Okay, so any you know,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: space junk that might have landed on Mars over the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: past two billionaires would not have burned in the atmosphere.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: It would have landed, and we can we need to
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: check the surface even if we know that you know
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: there wasn't any civilization out there over the past two
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: billionaires because conditions are really harsh. The Mars may have
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: collected a technological debris from other civilizations because it would
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: stay on the surface. It's just like a US.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: This is an enormous structure. It's at least they think
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I think they think three one hundred meters.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's not enormous because quite a bit long
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: three eye atlas. The size of three autlasts is at
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: least five kilometers in diameter. And I derived it in
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: a paper a couple of weeks ago because we know
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: that it's losing mass, so and it's mostly from the
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: side that is facing the sun, and you would have
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: gotten some recoil as a result of that in the
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: opposite direction, just like a rocket. And I used, together
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: with two colleagues, four thousand data points from two hundred
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: and twenty seven observatories around the Earth of three autlasts
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: that monitored its motion across the sky, and we were
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: able to say that the trajectory is sculpted only by gravity.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: There is no evidence for this recoil, and that means
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: that the object is very massive. And I derived the
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: value of thirty three billion tons, a huge thing, which
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: if you take solid density, it means it's more than
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: five kilometers in diameter. So when you mentioned a few
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: hundred meters, that's nothing. And this object, by the way,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: was discovered just over the past decade of serving the sky,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: you know. So who knows how much debris collected on
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: the surface of Mars or the Moon because there are
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: good museums, you know, and by the way, I see
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: that as their most important value. Let me just say
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: one thing about my fundamental point of view. You know,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: each of us would live for about one hundred years
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: if we are lucky, right, that's the kind of It's
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: pretty depressing, right, because there is so much we would
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: like to know and we have only one hundred years.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: So and you know that already tells you that you
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: need to be modest and humble because you don't have
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of time, right, So why engage in conflicts,
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Why reduce the lifespan of other people? You know in wars?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: It makes no sense all of this. You have limited time.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Let's just use it for something constructive. Anyway, we are
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: born on this rock, which is just three millions of
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: the mass of the Sun, it's leftover material from the
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: formation process of the Sun. The bris was left over
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: in a disk and the Earth was made out of that.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: That's it. And it's just a speck of material, nothing significant.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And this Earth was moving around the Sun four point
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: five four billion times before the Vatican even existed. And
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: why do I say the Vatican, because the Vatican put
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Galileo Galilei in house arrest when he said, I don't
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: think everything moves around the Earth. I see some moons
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: through my telescope, you know, I see some moons around Jupiter,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: and they don't seem to revolve around the Earth. They
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: revolver around Jupiter. Therefore the Earth is not at the center.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: So they put him in house arrests. Today they would have,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: you know, canceled him on social media. And my point
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: is that's the first sign that you know, humans are
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: they want to think that it's all about them, you know.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: And it's not surprising, but the Vatican admitted their mistake
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety two, they issued an official letter saying
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: Galileo was right. That was three hundred and fifty years
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: after he died. And you know, it's the worst public
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: relations affair that you can have to admit that you
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: were wrong for you know, like three hundred fifty years.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: And how could they have avoided that? Very simply if
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: they said, we have more money than Galileo, we will
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: built an even bigger telescope to figure out the truth,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: and we would prove him wrong. And then they would
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: have found that he was right, and so then they
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: would have corrected course shortly.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: They would have put more people under house arrest. That's
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: probably what they would have done.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So my point is it's really important in cases
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: like this or three I Atlas, it's really important to
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: get as much data as possible because once you reach
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: a certain threshold, you can't shove anomalies under the carpet
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: of traditional thinking the way that my colleagues do. Just
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: to give you an example, the first interstellar object was Omamua Okay,
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: and it was discovered twenty seventeen, and it was really
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: strange because, you know, the it was shaped like a
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: pancake based on all the data we have, and it
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: was pushed away from the Sun by some mysterious falls
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: without showing any evaporation, no gas or dust around it.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: What did these conservative comet experts say, most recently, just
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: just in December twenty twenty four, there was a paper
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: of them saying it's a comet. It's a dark comet,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: in other words, a comet where you can't see the
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: cometary tail around it. So it's us like experts, you know,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: specializing in zebras, and they go to the zool and
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: they see an elephant. So then they say, oh, the
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: elephant is a zebra without stripes, and I say, no,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: it's a completely different animal. You know, as spacecraft would
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: appear differently than a rock than a comet because it
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: will not have a cometary telle. It could be propelled
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: by something else. So let me go back to the
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: big picture that I mentioned before. So we live on
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: this Earth moving around the Sun, and my colleagues in academia,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: you know, one thing I often say is common sense
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: is not common in academia. Because my colleagues in academia
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: know very well about the story of Galileo, they know
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: very well about the possibility of black swans, and they say,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: it's an extraordinary claim to imagine something like us as
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: smart as we are near another star. And I say, no,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: it's an ordinary claim. Why would you think it's extraordinary.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: And by the way, if you decide not to collect evidence,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: not to look for it, then you will not find it,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: so I say, and you know, I say, extraordinary evidence
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: requires extraordinary funding. You really need to put resources to
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: find the evidence. By not attending to this possibility, by
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: not imagining this and by the way, I much prefer
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: to listen to imaginative science fiction writers, you know, first class,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: because they're much more interesting than second class scientists who
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: don't have any imagination. And they don't They not only
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: have a problem with discussing alien intelligence, they also have
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: a problem with whoever discusses it, and they would try
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: to suppress that voice. And I think it makes no
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: sense whatsoever, because the public really cares about it. You know,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: my essays on medium dot com they get a few
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: million readers a month. Now, the public cares about it.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: The public funds science. Therefore, scientists should attend to this question,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: are we alone? It's the most romantic question in science.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: You know. It's like, so just to finish my big
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: picture before we get tomorrow, so then you know, we
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: live on this plant. Everyone says, Okay, we are not
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: at the center of the universe, but we might be
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: the only intelligent species out there.
• 19:27
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• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Again, we need the next Copernican Revolution, the next Galilean
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: revolution to realize that there is a smarter kid on
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: the block. Okay. And it's just like the experience of
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: my daughters on the first day to the kindergarten. Tom
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: they thought that they're at the center of the of
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the universe because they had the you know, their learning
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: was based on a data set that was limited to home.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: It's just like llm's you know, artificial intelligence systems that
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: learn from their data sets, and they had limited environments.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: And then when they went to the kindergun they realized
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: our kids just like them, SMA smatter. So we are
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: yet too mature in that sense. And that's the big picture. Now,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: why is it so important for the future of humanity?
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Because you know, the Earth is would not exist forever
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: by the way people talk about global climate change and
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: so forth, they don't realize, you know, the issue is
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: not the Earth. The issue is humanity, the future of humanity.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: And you know, the Earth itself would be very likely,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: based on detailed calculations, it will be engulfed by the
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: sun in seven point six billionaires. And here is something
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: that you won't find much discuss the Moon because of
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: the friction on the envelope of the Sun will back
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: to Earth, and then the Earth will move all the
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: way to the center of the Sun. Nothing will be left,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: no monument will survive seven point six billionaires ago into
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the future. And we have an obligation if we want
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: to be remembered in cosmic history, you know, we have
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: an obligation not to go to Mars. That's not really
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: a great vision, you know. Going to Mars is just
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: like you know, you have a group of chimpanzees living
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: in the jungle, you know, in you know, on some trees,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: and they have some bananas and so forth. And then
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: one of the chimpanzees looks far far away into the
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: horizon and says, oh, look up there there is another
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: region that we can go to, and and it actually
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: it's clear that there are no bananas there. So the
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: same is about Mars. You know, like Elon says, let's
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: go to Mars to save humanity. But it's actually not
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: a great place to be on there is going.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: To start somewhere, you have not start somewhere.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: No, So here's my plan. So here's my point.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Okay, here's your point.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: It makes much more sense for us to invest in
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: building a platform in space that can accommodate humans, not
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: to rely on another rock that happens to be near
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: us with much worse conditions. It's a desert, no atmosphere.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: So let's build a space platform, go on it, and
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: make sure that it's safe for humans to live for
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: long periods of time. We can produce artificial gravity by rotation.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Now you say, well, it will cost a lot of money,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: but we are spending two point four trillion dollars every
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: year on military budgets. If we were just to change
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: our priorities and say we want to build nos spaceship
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: in analogy to no ox arc to save humanity from
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: the great flood or catastrophe that will happen on Earth.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: You build such, you put a fraction of these two
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: point four trillion dollars a year, and I'm willing to
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: bet that within this century, our engineers, architects, scientists, if
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: you put a level of funding of a trillion dollars
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: a year for the next decade several decades, we will
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: come up with a concept that can accommodate humans in
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: space much better than Mars can.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, I want to get back to Mars, because the
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: structures on Mars, why would you think that they came
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: from space debris rather than a prior.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Civilization, because well, Mars, let's take a.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Look at it first, Jamie. We pull up those images.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: So what's fascinating about the images is the right angles
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: right like that one that, Yeah, that's good. Like that's
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: kind of crazy, isn't it It is? And that doesn't
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: strike me as something that landed there from space. It
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: looks like a structure. It's just it's too even.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it could be.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: It could be.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: It could be if the evolution of intelligence on Mars
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: was accelerated by a factor of two. You know, that's
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: not a big factor, factor of two, meaning that intelligence
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: arose on Mars two billionaires after it formed, rather than
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: in the case of the Earth four point five or so.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: And you know, one thing I really want to do
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: is if I ever have a say or go to Mars,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: I would like to visit those caves, the lava tubes
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: in Mars because they are protected from the surface, you know,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: bombardment by cosmic rays and all kinds of things happening.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: The ultravaltradiation. So in those caves, I want to check
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: if there are any prehistoric paintings or any technological objects there.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: I completely agree with you a factor of two is
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: not a big deal. And you can ask also whether
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: on Earth there was a sophisticated technological civilization before us
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: that somehow, you know, either through self inflicted wounds or
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: because of a nut catastrophe, disappeared.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: But there's a lot of people that think that, especially
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: now that they're looking at the Pyramids and these structures
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: that appear to be underneath the pyramids that they're examining,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: those Italian scientists that have found these structures that are
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: up to two kilometers deep. Is there some wild stuff
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: in each way?
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: Well, I want to see that data. I haven't seen
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: the paper itself, I just saw reports about it. But
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: the definitely on Earth as well. And the problem of
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Earth is that documented human history is only eight thousand
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: years old, and eight thousand years you know, it's just
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: a million of the age of the Milky Way galaxies.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Are you including things like go Backley tapping in that,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: because that's a level plus.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: So that yeah, but it's not really documented in written form.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: You know, like, right, so I'm talking about yeah, but
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: you are correct that our knowledge of what happened on
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: Earth is really limited because the human species existed for
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: a few millionaires and we have documentation level of ten
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: thousand years. If you go back to that, it would
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: be eleven thousand, not much more.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: The issue is actual evidence, right, evidence, because a lot
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: of evidence just gets swallowed by the Earth exactly over
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: long periods of time, Which is why so fascinating looking
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: at that thing on Mars, because if there was any
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: kind of life that was capable of building structures on Mars,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: it had to be a long time ago. Like when
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: was Mars, there was a bunch of theories. Maybe you
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: can help me, like what do you think is the
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: predominant theory that explains the lack of atmosphere on Mars?
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Do you think it was an impact?
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Mars is a less massive planet than the Earth and
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: therefore it has less gravitational grip on its atmosphere. And
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: then as to why the atmosphere was lost, there are
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: various ideas. You know, it may have to do with
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: an eruption on the Sun that removed it, or the
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: magnetic field, the lack of strong enough magnetic field to
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: retain the atmosphere. We don't know for sure, but we
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: know it happened about two to two and a half
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: billionaires ago, at the middle of its life.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Can I ask you this two and a half billion
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: years was it closer to the Sun? No?
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: No, no, it was roughly at the same same distance. Okay, yeah,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: and then.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: And then so two and a half billion years ago
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: lost its atmosphere. Yes, So if it did have life,
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: that life would have to so we would have to
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: be looking at something that's literally two plus billion years
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: old remnants of a structure, which also seems kind of unlikely, right.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: It also seems like it probably wouldn't be much there.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: I actually did a calculation. The biggest risk for anything
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: on the surface is all these impacts by asteroids, And
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I calculated.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Then micromedias everything right, because there's nothing.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, And I calculate the amount of
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: energy over a few billionaears that was deposited on the
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: surface of Mars is equivalent to, you know, hundreds of
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Hiroshima type nuclear explosions per square kilometer. It's really huge.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: And because you're integrating over billions of years, so.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: That square probably wouldn't be there anymore.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Well, there could be some relics that somehow stick, you know,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: like it depends what it was originally. You know, the
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Empire's state building, you know, even I.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Was enormous and made completely out of stone like the pyramids.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's what we made.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe. I think we should be definitely open minded and
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: guided by evidence. That's the key.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what's interesting is because that is.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: That is evidence. We should go there, you know, clear
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the dust and see if if it's just a rock
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: that happened to be shaped like that. I mean, you
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: could have rocks that are shaped like that.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Let's bring it back to this. Is it three.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Ai at lasts three eye atlas three eyes, so three
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: means it's the third object identified by survey telescopes over
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: the past eight tears. We didn't have the technology before that,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: and so we just don't know how much traffic there
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: is of interest. So we had you know, the first
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: survey telescope that founda was pant Stars in Hawaii, and
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the reason it was constructed is because the US Congress
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: tasked NASA to find ninety percent of all objects bigger
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: than a football field passing close to Earth. These are
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: potential killer asteroids that can destroy a region on Earth.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: We want to protect the Earth, so we want to
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: know about them. And they asked NASA and the National
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Science Foundation to search, you know, to build observatories that
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: will search for such objects. And that's why pant Stars
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: was established. And then it saw a near Earth object,
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: so they flagged it for that reason. And they realized
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: it's moving too fast to be bound by gravity to
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: the Sun, and that was and then it looks looked weird.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: Now I had no agenda. I was working on cosmology
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: the time, you know, I was working on black holes.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: I was the founding director of the Black Hole Initiative
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: at Harvard, and Stephen Hawking had passed over at my
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: home in twenty sixteen. This object was discovered a year later,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: and I said, well, okay, that's interesting, but it has
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: a normalies. You know, the amount of brightness coming from
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: it by reflecting sunlight changes by a factor of ten
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: as it's stumbling. That's really strange. And I started getting
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: more and more into the anomalies.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: And I had no previous to that. You had no
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: real connection to the.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: UAP no zero zero.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: So you're just basing entirely on the data that you
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: were getting from.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I said, and you know, I am driven
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: by curiosity. I'm no different than the kid that I was.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I grew up on a farm, and people
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: who knew me back then say I didn't change. I'm
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: not willing to change what I say just for political
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: benefit or for or just to be liked. But I
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: don't have any social media accounts. I don't care about that.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: But when something look God, somebody, well, it's thanks to
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: my wife, not God. My wife said you should not
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: have any footprint on So she's really wise.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Is wise?
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: And that was more than a decade ago.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Wow, she spotted the problem real early.
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by Netflix. Catherine Bigelow,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: the Oscar winning director of The hurt Locker and Zero
• 32:29
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• 32:32
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• 32:36
  Speaker 2: but that impacts us all. It's an authentic look at
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  Speaker 2: how America might respond to a nuclear attack, showing the
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: human side of impossible decisions under unimaginable stress. A House
• 32:48
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• 32:52
  Speaker 1: And Now with AI. We're talking about social media on steroids. Yeah,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: it's really bad. By the way, the main problem with
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: social with the AI, I see, it's not so much that,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: you know, they will bring calamity on their own. It's
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: that they would drive people to do crazy stuff. So
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: they will manipulate the human mind in ways that will
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: make us the robots. You know, it will not need
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: access to the physical world. It will control the minds
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: of people in a way that will create a lot
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: of damage. And we see that already exactly with AI.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: That's the biggest risks on social media.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And nobody is attending to that. And the question is
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: how do we suppress the amazing polarization that we see
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: in society where you know, bullets are being shot, and
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I really worry about it because and so humans may
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: actually bring their own doom by by self inflicted wounds
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: because AI manipulates their minds.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think in that regard, I
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: think people need to stop using it. I really do.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I just think it's not good.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm doing. I just think I'm not using
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: AI at all.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: I use it sometimes, but I treat it like a
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: glass of wine, like don't drink wine all day.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: You know. I'm working with students, and every now and
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: then a student delivers a paper to me to look at,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and I realize some of the references do not exist
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: because I know the literature, you know that. I ask
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: the student what is this. I've never heard about this paper,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: and the student says, oh, sorry, And it turns out
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: the AI just took names of authors and say make references,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: and the same thing. Within the paper itself, there are
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: statements that are clearly because the student was using AI.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: I'm really worried about that, because the young people are
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: not reading. They don't read history, so they go to
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: protests that make no sense. They don't and people say, oh,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: that is always the youthful thing to do, but no, no, no,
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: this one is triggered by misinformation. It's organized luck, and
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: it's organized exactly, and so that's one thing. But then
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: they don't go to primary sources to figure out the truth.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: They don't have critical thinking. And I really feel that
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: this is a big risk because, you know, AI is
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: getting more intelligent, but humans that use AI are getting dumber, right,
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: They don't think. So I think that the you know,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: the AI would supersed the cognitive abilities of humans sooner
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: than expected because humans are getting dumber. I mean, I
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: see that.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: I don't think people are necessarily getting dumber, but I
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: think they're getting lazy because of this. I think you
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: get a lot of FA is exactly the same. I
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: think they need to be taught how to use it.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: When I get a lot of femails saying I collaborated
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: with my favorite AI app and here is what it said.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: And yeah, but I think we need to teach people
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: how to use it because it's a new thing, and
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: that that I think that's where a lot of the
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: problem comes from. People are using it in a substitution
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: for learning, you know, and but you instead can learn
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: from it, but you've got to use it in that way.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: So there are two existential risks in our future. One
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: is artificial intelligence AI. The second one is alien intelligence
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: also AI. And the question is which one would arrive first.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: Let's let's go back to one more time. Okay, I
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: don't want to screw it up. How large was that?
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: That was the size of a football field. So of
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: all the one hundreds.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Of small in comparison to three.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: I oh, yeah, that's my point that three i Atlas
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: is a million times more massive, at least a million
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: times more massive than and I immediately as it was discovered.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: You know, it was July first, and my wife asked
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: me to go on vacation to Aruba two days later.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: And as I was going on the place, and as
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: I arrived there, I realized, wait, that doesn't make sense,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: because we should have seen millions of mus before we
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: saw this one. You know, it's so big. And I
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: also realized there is not enough rocky material per init
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: volume in interstal space to deliver such a giant rock
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: into the Inner Solar System within a period of a decade.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: You would expect it at the very optimistic scenario where
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: you package all the material into objects that are five
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: kilometer in diameter, you would imagine once per ten thousand years.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: So I wrote immediately a scientific paper. My wife was
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: not happy that, you know, on our vacationion I was
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: sitting on my computer, but I just couldn't resist it.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And by the way, this paper I submitted for publication
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: that was July third or something, and then the editor said, oh,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: the paper is fine, but you have a concluding sentence
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: at the end where you say well, unless the object
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: is smaller than estimated, maybe it was targeting the inner source.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: That was my solution to say, you know, one way
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: out of this dilemma of why is it so big
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: is if it was targeting the inner solace by design.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: And indeed, the trajectory is aligned with the plane of
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: the planets around the Sun to within five degrees. The
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: chance for that at random is one in five hundred, okay,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: And it's moving in a retrograde trajectory opposite to the
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: motion of the planets, which is ideal for it to
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: release miniprobs that will get into the planets. It gets
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: close to Mars, it gets close to Jupiter, it goes
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: on the opposite side of the Sun relative to Earth
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: when it's closest to the Sun, and that's the time
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: when a spacecraft could do a maneuver to take advantage
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: of the Sun's gravitational assist You know, all of these
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: are interesting indications that may imply that some intelligence designed
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: the trajectory. So I had one sentence at the end
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: of the paper saying maybe the trajectory was signed, and
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: the editor said no, no, no, the paper will not
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: get published unless you remove that sentence. Wow. So now
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: when you when you listen to comet experts that say, well,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: this claim or that claim was never published in a
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: peer review journal, guess what they are the editors or
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: the reviewers who are blocking the discussion on possibilities. And
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: I think it's inappropriate, especially in the case of alien technology,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: because it could be a black Swan event. It could
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: be something that affects the future of humanity, and if
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: we behave, you know, very conservatively, we might not.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Last very long. What's also arrogant, it's arrogant. This object
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: is it shows that there's no iron.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Oh no, so yeah, So then the composition of the
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: plume of gatherings.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: Is this is before you knew about the composition.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: That's right, he wrote this paper exactly.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: And so as time is going on, you are being
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: shown to be correct.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Well, we find more more anomalist.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: This is not a normal thing.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Not a normal thing. So for one thing, there was
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: a glow that looks like an extended feature, and everyone said, oh,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: that's a taiale. That's the signature of a comet. And
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: I said, wait a minute, it's pointing towards the sun.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: It's not pointing away from the Sun. Usually cometary tales
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: are made of dust and gas which is pushed back
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: away from the Sun by the radiation and the solar wind,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: you know. And so this one was pointed towards the Sun,
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: not away from the Sun. And the question is why.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: And actually I calculated that, you know, it appeared very
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: clearly in the sharpest image we had from the Habit
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: space telescope, which showed an elongation by a factor of
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: two towards the Sun. But we were looking at it
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: like a cigar. We were looking almost along the cigar
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: long axis, within ten degrees of the object sun axis,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: so we were looking almost edge on. And I coggolate
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: if you were to correct for that, this would be
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: a feature that is ten times longer than it is wide,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you know, and that means it's like a jet. So
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: the object was had a jet in front of it
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: towards the Sun. The question is why. And you know,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: the comet experts ignored it and just said, well, you know,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: comets are strange. You know, who knows. But my point
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: is this is a blind date of interstellar proportions. And
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: my advice on blind dates is not to speak or
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: say what you think this is but to observe the
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: other side. You know, the best way to respond to
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: a blind date is to observe the other side. Don't speak,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: just observe the other side because it may be different
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: than what you think. And maybe you know on one
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: of the dates you will have a serial killer on
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: the other side.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, Now explain if you could, how we know
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: the composition of this.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Sing So we can figure out composition of a plume
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: of gas by taking a spectrum of it, which means
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: you basically have some kind of a prism that breaks.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: You know that the light with different wavelengths is bent
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: at different angles, and so you spread the light into
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: the different colors. And if you do that, you can
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: find the fingerprints, the spectral fingerprints of specific atoms or molecules,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: because each atom or molecule has transitions. I actually teach
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: I thought it just two days ago in a class
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: that they teach that is mandatory obligatory at the halvd
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: Asronomy department, where I was chaired for a decade, you know,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: like between twenty eleven twenty twenty, So this is the
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: mandatory class, and I just thought, how you know spectral
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: lines emitted by atoms and molecules just two days ago.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: So this is a very well known thing. And we
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: know the wavelengths of those and we use them to
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: identify the composition. You know, we know which atoms produced
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: these spectral lines, the fingerprints. It's just like fingerprints, okay.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: And so what was found, you know, and that's by
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: multiple teams. That are three papers on that. We found nickel,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of nickel, but very little iron at first,
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: no iron whatsoever. Now, usually in all the comets in
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: the past from the Solar System and also from interstellar space,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: there is one comet, Borisov that was found. It's the
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: second interstellar object which looked just like a familiar comet.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: I had nothing to say about that one. It looked
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: like a comet, behaved like a comet. It was a comet,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: but it had similar abundances of nickel and iron. The
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: only place where we found before much more nickel than
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: iron is in alloys that we produce industrially. For example,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: for aerospace applications. Nickel alloys have a lot of nickel,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: no iron. So maybe the skin of this objective is
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: industrially produced. That was my suggestion. But what the authors
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: of these papers said is maybe nature is capable of
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: going through the same chemical pathway of producing nickel without
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: iron as we do in our industries. So they made
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: the conjecture that this carbonyl pathway, which is well known
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: in the industry world, carbonyl is the pathway in the
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: name of the pathway. They said, well, maybe this carbony
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: pathway happens in nature. We've never seen it before, but
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: that is their explanation. Hm hmm.
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: Is it possible that nature could construct some sort of
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: a nickel alloy.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: No, it's not an alloy. It's just well, somehow the
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: nickel gets released the iron gets suppressed. Nobody would argue that,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: you know, you could sort of separate nickel from iron
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: because they're produced together in exploding stars. And in fact,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: the composition of the sun has more iron than nickel
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: ten times more by mass. And so we just don't know.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: As in the case of this jet that I was mentioning,
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: which recently turned into a tale now over the month
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: of September. And also you know, why was it changing
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: structure is not clear that a lots of anomalist There
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: was also a very negative polarization of the light. And
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: also two weeks ago I realized the arrival direction of
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: three I Atlas was within nine degrees of the WOW
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: signal that was detected in nineteen seventy seven, which was
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: an enigmatic, powerful radio signal that definitely came from outside
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: of this Earth. We don't know from where it was
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: coming from a source that was approaching the Sun, and
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: the chance of it aligning with the arrival direction of
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: three Ayatlas is zero point six percent. And I just said, well,
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: that's interesting because three Atlas was at the distance of
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: three light days from the Earth at that time, you know,
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: and you just need about the output of a nuclear
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: reactor on Earth, the Jigawatos to produce such a radio signal.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: By the way, Voyager as of now, is one light
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: day away from Earth. Just think about it. One light day.
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Are you know? The farthest spacecraft we ever launched is
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: one light day away and the size of the Milky
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Way galaxy we are talking about tens of thousands of
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: light years, So one day out of tens of thousands
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: of years, that's the difference between the distance that we
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: managed to breache so far compared to another civilization may
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: have sent something to our backyard.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: Right now, have we ever observed things in the past
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: that have changed their tail.
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: Like this, So there are fag This is called an
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: anti tail when it's pointing towards the Sun. There were
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: optical illusions in a situation where you know there is
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: a tail which is pushed away from the Sun by
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: radiation and the solar wind, but you're observing it as
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: the Earth goes through the orbital plane of this object,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: of this comet, and you are seeing it from a
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: perspective that it looks as if the tail is pointed
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: at the Sun, but in fact it's just a perspective thing.
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: It's an optical illusion. And there were cases like that
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: that was seen, but as far as I know, none
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: seen in a situation where it's clear and in three
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Iatla it was very far from the Sun and Earth
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: and we saw it towards the Sun. There cannot be
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: an optical illusion under these circumstances because it was approaching
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: both the Earth and the Sun roughly at the same direction.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: So I'm not aware of another. But most importantly you
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: should look at the response of the comet expert community
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: to that. Anomally, they say, well, comets are strange, we
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe it's these are dust particles that are
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: very big, so they don't get pushed back much. But
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: then how do you scutter sunlight? Usually you need particles
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: that have a size of the odor of the wavelength
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: of the light that is being scuttered. That's the most
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: efficient process. And when you have dust particles, the ones
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: that have you know, sub micrometer dimensions are dominating the
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: scuttering of sunlight. So why in this case you will
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: have only big ones that are not getting pushed back.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: It could be fragments of ice that are scattering the
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: sunlight that have nothing to do with dust, but those
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: fragm and suffice get evaporated and so they don't have
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: enough time to turn back.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: I wrote two papers on that trying to explain it.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: But my point is many scientists are not curious. You
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: would find it surprising. Why are they not curious? Why
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: are they not willing to consider alternative explanations to what
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: is commonly thought? And it's because they're afraid of taking
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: any risk, you know. And I came from a background
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: where I worked in cosmology trying to figure out passive
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: like most of the matter in the universe is of
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: a substance that we don't know what it is. You know,
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: we call it dark meta. It's just to reflect our ignorance.
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: You know. Nobel prices were awarded for people who quantified
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: how much dark meta there is, how much dark energy
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: there is. These are constituents whose nature is unknown. And
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: just think about it, giving a Nobel price to people
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: who just said, how ignorant we are. We don't know
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: what these things are. Ordinary matter might make just five
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: percent of the matter in the universe. And in this
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: culture of cosmology, when you know I worked in for
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: three decades, it was you know, completely common to propose
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: ideas to explain anomalists. I mean, the dark matter is
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: an anomally, you don't know what it is. And people
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: were rewarded for coming up with ideas, imaginative ideas that
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: can be tested experimentally. That's the way you make progress.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: You don't know something, you are putting on the table
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: possibilities and then you motivate observers or experimentalists to figure
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: out which one is the correct one. And that was
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: the culture. And I think of it as the culture
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: of chess players, okay, okay, trying to figure out things.
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: When I get to work on comets, you know, asteroids,
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: these objects and consider imaginative possibilities to explain their anomalists
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: the way I did. In the context of cosmology, I encounter,
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: you know, a culture of mad wrestlers. It's different from
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: chess players. And you know, I don't want to mad wrestle.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: I don't want to get dirty. I don't respond to
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: the I learned my lesson with. I don't respond to
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: those people because once we collect, I just want as
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: much evidence as possible so that they would not be
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: able to shove the NORMALI is under the carpet of
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: traditional thinking. That's my motivation. So I'm inspiring a debate
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: right now, and there is a huge interest in that debate,
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: so that we will collect as much data as possible,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: so that by the end of the day we'll figure
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: out what our dating partner is. If it happens to
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: be a rock, you know, on the other side of
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: the table, you go on a date and you see
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: a rock, so be it. If it's something else that
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: has huge implications, and therefore we should consider that possibility
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: seriously and just collect as much data as possible.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: What is it about your field, in particular, the think
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: motivates mud slinging like why why are they averse to risk?
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: And why do they not just why are they not
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: just averse to risk? But why they are attacking you
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: for proposing what seems to me to be a reasonable
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: alternative considering the possibilities given all the planets and stars
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: that we know or out there.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I got a hint for the answer to your
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: question when I wrote the first paper on I suggested
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: it might be technological right, and the paper got accepted
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: for publication within three days. Record The reviewer said, this
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: is a great idea because it's consistent with all the
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: data we have. It's most likely a flat object, and
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: therefore it could be pushed by reflecting sunlight, which was
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: my proposal. Then the media came to my door and
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: people started asking me a lot of questions I got,
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: you know, I got well known. At that point, the attacks,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: the personal attacks started. So it's jealousy, yeah, and you know,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you that I learned my lesson.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: You can't respond.
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: I just ignore it and let me give you a
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: few anecdotes of what happened to me this week, just
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: this week. Okay, please tomorrow. I'm supposed to go to California.
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: There is a NASCAR car race where one of the
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: racers decided to put my image with three Eye Atlas
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: with the Galileo project that I'm leading on his car.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: So let me show you some images.
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: Show me the image, because what is the current best
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: image of three Eye Atlas.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: Oh, we will get to that. So here you see
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: the car and he promised to let me drive it
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: during the just before the race. Is this guy, no,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Kevin Harvick is that's the name of the driver's name,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: Alex Malik, Alex Malik. Yeah, and he contacted the blue Yeah,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: he's just a big fan. That's cool and I will
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: go there.
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: Smart of him, right, because that's definitely going to get
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: you a lot of attention.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So he just sent it to me this morning.
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: This is in the shop where they put all these
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: things on it, and tomorrow I'm going to drive it.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: What is comet lemon in the back?
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: That's just another Comet, So he's like a Comet fit in.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: This guy.
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: By the way, I told him that the fastest moving
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: race car is six hundred times slower than three iatas
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: six hundred times, so you know it's a compliment to
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: me to be featured on his car. But three Aatlas
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: doesn't care much because it's already moving six hundred times
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: faster than his car can move, you know, but let's
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: say move. It is cool though, So this is tomorrow.
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: That image though, that's you with a spinning world. Right.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: That's the globe and my name. So the car is
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: called avelobe.
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: Now nice?
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, can we move to the next image.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: You're excited about this? I like it.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So this is an image taken two days ago
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: in my office at Harvard.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: Again.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: I was contacted out of the blue by an artist,
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: a very distinguished artist accomplished named Greg Wyatt in New
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: York City, who donated two sculptures made of bronze of Galileo.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: You see them in the front. They were delivered to
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: my office just a few days ago, and in the
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: background you see water colors that he made. Each of them,
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: there are fifty one of them that all of this
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: he donated to me at no cost. He wants it
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: to be displayed in my office because these watercolors display
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: famous scientists that pioneered new frontiers, and he includes a
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: statement from each of these scientists, which are really educational
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: for the students and postdocs that work with me. I
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: should tell you I got an email from a US
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: Air Force pilot his daughter Arianna said to him, he
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: wrote me an email and said, because of you, my
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: daughter wants to become a scientist. Now she saw you
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: on television and now she only speaks about aliens. You know.
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: Two days later, I speak with a reporter from the
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: London Times and he puts out his report and says,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: I read the report for half an hour to my
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: kids and they told me they want to become scientists.
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: And you know, this is a guy. Another thing that
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: the two things that are missed by my colleagues. One,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: it's an opportunity to excite the kids to get into science.
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: You know, that's an amazing I mean, when we discovered
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: the Higgs boson, you know, it was an important confirmation
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: of an idea that came in the sixties. The Nobel
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Prize was awarded. But I bet you that the daughter Arianna,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: the daughter of the usf Force pilot, would not be
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: inspired to become a scientist because it's very abstract. Here
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: there is a connection. So that's one thing that is missed.
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: And of course The second one is here is a
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: subject that the public cares about, and the public fund science,
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: so we should attend to that. Of course, it's our
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: obligation as scientists. Of course, you know, I always, since
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: I started science, which was by chance, by the way,
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: I wanted always to become a philosopher. But circumstances led
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: me because I led a project that was funded by
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: the Star Wars initiative of President Regan. It was the
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: first international project. And then that brought me into astrophysics
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: because I was offered the position at Princeton, the Institute
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: for Advanced Study, where Einstein was a faculty a few
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: decades earlier. So it all it was an arranged marriage.
• 57:39
  Speaker 1: But I felt that it's even though it's an arranged marriage,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: I'm married to my true love because I can address
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: philosophical questions using the scientific method, and I recognize things
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: that my colleagues do not because I'm different, you know,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: I'm just but.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Well, you're willing to take chances. It's not just that,
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: not even chances. You're willing to propose those things that
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: might be ridiculed.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I think about the big picture. You know. The
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: one thing that I mentioned in my book Extraterrestrial is.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: On the first day of school, I showed up to
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: the class and I saw the kids jumping up and
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: down on the tables in the classroom, and I looked
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: at them and I said, does it really make sense
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: to jump up and down? Like what are they trying
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: to accomplish by doing that? And then the teacher came
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: in and looked at everyone jumping and said, quite down,
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: look at Avi. He's so well behaved. You should all
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: behave like him. And I wanted to tell her I'm
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: not well behaved. You know, this was not the reason
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: why I didn't jump up and down. I was just
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out why they are jumping up and down,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: and if it made sense, I would jump up and down.
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: I don't care about your rules, and that pretty much
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: defines me, you know. I'm thinking about the big picture,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: and if my colleagues are doing something that doesn't make sense,
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: I don't give a damn.
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: So let me ask you this. Yeah, once the understanding
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: of the composition of three I at lists. Once that
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: was out and people recognize that this is a very
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: unusual object, have more people started to consider what you're saying.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, get a lot of people sending me in the
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: academic world. Also in the academic world, those are people
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: that say, we are inspired by what you're doing. You know,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: they keep sending me emails saying keep doing it. It's
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: an inspiration to all of us. But this is privately,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: So the young people, you have to understand the biggest
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: damage of this harassment or scrutiny or ridicule or personal attacks.
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: I don't care about it. You know, my skin is
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: by now titanium. I don't really feel much. The issue
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: is really that it and that's the purpose of these
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: attacks is they want to discourage others, young people from
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: deviating from the beaten path, so they keep the herd
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: in a tight configuration. And the risk from that is
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: is you know, one suggestion that was very popular when
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: I started astrophysics, you know, like half a century ago.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: By the way, I lived throughout half of modern physics,
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: roughly half of modern physics, So half a century ago,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: it was thought that there is a symmetry of nature
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: called supersymmetry, and that the dark matter is the lightest
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: particle associated with that symmetry because it's stable. And everyone
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: said that must be right, and lots of castles were
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: built on this foundation, including string theory that was assuming
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: this to be true. And then the large Hadron Collider
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Ittsearn was built for ten billion dollars search for supersymmetry
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: and didn't find it. Now, what is the lesson? Yes,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: it was a beautiful idea, and sometimes nature is not
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: what we think it is, Okay, So we should not
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: ridicule ideas that are different than what the mainstream is doing,
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: because the mainstream makes mistakes. This was I mean a
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: lot of money and effort went to that. That thousands
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: of papers basing their analysis or mathematical constructions on supersymmetry.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: And a lot of people are unwilling to abandon that
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: as well.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, But the point is if you allow people
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: to follow not just the beaten path, but other paths,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: you have a better chance of discovering something new because
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: we cannot. I mean, Einstein made you know, three mistakes
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: between nineteen thirty five and nineteen forty. He said black
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: holes probably do not exist. He said, gravitational waves probably
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: do not exist, and he said quantum mechanics doesn't have
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: spooky action at the distance. And all three received Nobel
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: prices for the teams that proved him wrong. Those are
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Nobel prices from the past decade, three teams, you know,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: doing different types of experiments and observations. But did Einstein
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: was wronged to assume to make assumptions or claims that
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: turned out to be wrong? Now, because that's the nature
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: of working at the frontier. You make mistakes every now
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: and then you know you might be right and that
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: will be a breakthrough. But you cannot have breakthroughs without
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: taking risks. And it's really I mean, the whole idea
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: of tenure in academia was based on the proposition that
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: you want people to take risks so that they don't
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: have job in security, they don't worry about their So
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: what these zelots I call them say is, you know,
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: we don't want people to deviate from the beaten path
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: because we base our stature, we base our honors, awards
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: and so forth on past knowledge. We don't want new
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: knowledge unless it's proven beyond any doubt. But how would
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: it be proven if you keep ridiculing anything different? You know,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: those exp Most of the scientific community thought that rocks
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: cannot fall from the sky, and then in eighteen oh
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: three there was a meteor shower in Liege, and by
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: all a French physicist realize it's real. The rocks for
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: in France. Now all my colleagues say, there could be
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: only rocks in the sky. You know, we know that
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: we launch some spacecraft, but you know we're probably alone
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't make sense. But let me just mention
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: a few other anecdotes from the past week, because I
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: didn't truly finish. So Jamie, can you show the next one?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: What is it? This one is about Sphere in Las Vegas.
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: As you know, it's the most impressive venue for entertainment.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: In the world. There. Have you seen a show there?
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you not only I've been, I've been to
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: the top of the Sphere, which is like one hundred
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: and twenty meters high. Here you see me from inside
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: the sphere. This is the Exosphere. By the way, it's
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: covered with LED displays. We went all the way to
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: the top. Why because a year ago two very distinguished
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: visitors came to the front door of my home. By
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: the way, lots of interesting people show up at my
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: front door. This was Jim Dolan, who owns the Medicine
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: Square Garden as you know, and also the Sphere and
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: Jane Rosenthal the Sea of Tribeca Enterprises, and they made
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: me an offer that I cannot refuse, and they said,
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: would you be able to put Galileo Project observatory. I'm
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: leading the Gallet project to look for unusual objects around
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: the Earth, and they said, could you build an observatory
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: on top of the sphere, because you know, Jim Dolan
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: really is interested in science and especially in finding, you know,
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: whether there is some alien intelligence out there. And I said,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: of course, I will be delighted. So that was September
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, one year after the sphere was opened
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: with you two concert as you may know. I don't
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: know if you've been there.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: I've been there for the UFC.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, UFC exactly. So anyway, I was there just a
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: few months ago with my research team. We went all
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: the way to the top and installed, as you can
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: see here, an array of infrared cameras that monitors the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: entire sky above Vegas at all times. So you can
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: see some of these images show the landscape of Vegas
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: in the background. It's like a freckle, you know, on
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: top of the sphere, the exosphere, which is the biggest
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: display on Earth. You know, but we measured that there
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: is not much light pollution actually, and we can operate
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: this observatory. We also put an array of visible light
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: cameras there and it's operating okay. And we hope to
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: see a few million objects over the sky of Vegas
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: and the side whether any of them has a performance
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: that deviates from the end lot of human made technologies.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: How do we do that? We have the spheres one point,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: but then we put two copies of that observatory ten
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: kilometers away on a triangle, and that allows us to
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: look at objects in the sky from different directions, just
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: like we have two eyes, so we can engage the distance.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: So here we have three eyes looking at the sky
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: above Vegas, and we can tell the distance, the velocity,
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: the acceleration of objects and ask whether they are lying
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: within the performance envelopes of human made objects. And that
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: would be amazing. It's very exciting. I see that also
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: as an opportunity to communicate to the public the excitement
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: about science. That's what Jim Dollan and Jane Rosenthal really
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: wanted to deliver. And I'm hoping that we will find
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: something really anomalous, you know, because as we know the
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: intelligence agencies are reporting to the US Congress about objects
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: they cannot identify, and you know, that could be two
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: things they're getting. You know, the defense budget for twenty
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: twenty six is a trillion dollars. Okay, if they tell
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: us that with the trillion dollars there are still objects
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: they cannot identify above the US, they're not doing their job.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: They're not doing their job, and we should be worried.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: Who send these objects? Could it be adversarial nations? Okay,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: that's one possibility, which has to do with national security.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: The second possibility is that it's maybe something from outside
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: of this earth, which would be even more significant. So
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: either way, we need to figure this out. And I
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: don't think I'm wasting my time leading the Galileo project
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: to figure out whether there are anomalies, you know, that
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: go beyond human made technologies, because if it turns out
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: that all the objects are human made, I will be
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: happy to deliver the set of sensors we developed with
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: the machine learning software that we developed to the Department
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: of War so that they can employ it for national
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: security purposes. So my time was not wasted as a scientist.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: I'm doing something useful to society. The Department of Work
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: can use it, have no problem. Everything made by humans,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: by the way, is boring. As far as I'm concerned,
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: I want to see something from outside the solar system,
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: which is not what the government should be about. The
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: government should worry about national security, not about what lies
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: outside the sources. That's my job definition as an astrophysicist. Okay,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: and so I feel that this is worthy pursuing. But
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: the Galileo project is really the first organized project that
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: constructed a reliable set of sensors in an observatory configuration
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: that does systematic study of the sky to collect millions
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: of objects in the sky per year. We have three observatories,
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: one in Las Vegas, as I mentioned, and by the way,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: this is the first time it's mentioned publicly, so that's amazing,
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: and another one in Massachusetts and a third one in Pennsylvania.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: They were all funded by people who approached me and said,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: here is the money.
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you this, if it wasn't for those,
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: how many observatories are looking for objects that are not
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 2: from this earth? Like? Is that very rare? None?
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: Well, there are some teams that are you know, doing it,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: making a trip to collect some data there is.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: There's not constant observations.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: Of scientific quality data.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: No, that's crazy.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. That's what I'm saying.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: And by the way, by the way, I gave a
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: briefing to the US Congress on May first, twenty five,
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: and Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna was there and she was
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: very excited about the work we're doing. But the day
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: before that, I visited an office in the Pentagon that
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: is called the Old Domain Normally Resolution Office, and I
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: asked them, you know, you looked into all these unidentified
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: objects reported in the past by military personnel. Did anything
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: trigger your attention as something truly anomalous? And they said not, really,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: there are some you know, there are some reports by
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: FBI agents that's really crazy stuff. But we don't have
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: any data from instruments. And this is an office within
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: the Pentagon which is funded to figure out things. And
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: so obviously what they might want to do is imitate
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: the Galileo project that I'm leading. But you would think
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 1: that it would be sort of the vested interest of government,
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: you know, to invest in research related to that, which
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: is what the Galileo project is doing.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. I would have thought it was
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: already done. I don't know we're having this conversation. I
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 2: can't believe that they're not monitoring this guy constantly for
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: anomalous objects.
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: Well, you remember the Chinese bi balloon that was missed
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: right and shut down. So the thing to keep in mind,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: they're getting data on things in the sky. But if
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: you don't have the right software now with AI, if
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: you don't have high quality scientists the way that the
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: Manhattan Project employed, you might not figure out things. There
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: is a reason why the Manhattan Project recruited the very
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: best scientists. So I say, put a billion dollars on
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: this or more, bring in the best scientists in the
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: world to figure it out. I'm funded at the level
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: of millions of dollars through the Galla project. The government
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: can do a bit. What is a billion dollars. It's
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: a drop in the bucket for the Pentagon. But if
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: you know, you should think about the potential risk from
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: drones that are used by adversara nations, and you want
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: to have the very best sense source using the very
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: best of course AI.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Believe that that's not already being done, that's a getting
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 2: so confusing. Well, I would have thought that there was
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: some sort of very sophisticated monitoring of the skies already. Well,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: that's especially when you take in all these anecdotal stories,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: all these different stories of people spotting some sort of
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: a ship, something, something that moves in a very strange way.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: I would think that they're monitoring this stuff all the time,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: and not just with radar.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: You see, there is an approach which is to wait
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: for the government to figure out things or to release
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: declassify them. So a lot of people want the government
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: to declassify. I think it's just like waiting for godou
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: you can wait forever, right and it will never happen.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: So I say, you know, we don't need the government
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: to tell us what is up there in the sky,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: because astronomy is all about that. We can build observatories
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 1: look at the sky. Anything that is human made is
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: not of interest to me. It's boring. I don't care,
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: you know, I just want to see if there is
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: anything that.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: Well, it's boring up to a point. If China has
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: something that moves, you know Mark thirty, Yeah, and can
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: go underwater, yeah, get.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: Very So my methodology can definite should definitely be used
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: by the Department of War to figure out risks of
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: the nature that you mentioned. But and by the way,
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: speaking about my colleagues, you know, so there are people
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: who said, oh, you're doing it to win the Nobel Price,
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: like that's what you're or you're trying to sell books.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 1: You know, I don't charge a penny for my essays
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: on medium dot com. Money is not at all what
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: motivates me with respect to the Noble Committee. You know,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: I have the same attitude as Jean Paul suter Head
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: and Bob Dylan had. If I find evidence for alien intelligence,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: alien technology, I would not waste my time in a
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: toxido in Stockholm. I will try to figure it out.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: That's much more important than an award given by human
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: to a human. We're dealing with something really consequential, and
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: for the scientific community to ignore that is irresponsible. Why
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: is it irresponsible because it could affect the future of humanity.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 2: Well, I think the problem with the scientific community is
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: the problem with all community is their overrun with ego.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: I agree, and as I explained at the beginning.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: It's just human beings when they get to a position
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: of any kind of authority, any sort of a position
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: of respect and prestige. They want to protect that at
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: all costs, and they want to keep everyone down who
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: they think is getting unwarranted attention above them, like yourself.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: But given the fundamental landscape that we live in, as
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: I mentioned the beginning, we live for a short time
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 1: or not at the center of the universe. We arrived
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: late to cosmic history. You know, we just arrived in
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: the last few million years out of a thirteen point
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: eight billion history. Billionaire's history. You know, the cosmic play
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: is not about us. If you arrive late to the play.
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: At the end of the play, you're not in the
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: center of stage. It's not about you, okay, And our
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: responsibility needs to be, you know, to find other actors
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: that were around for much longer because they know what
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: the play is about.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, and let me ask you this. Have you seen
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: any compelling information, any data that leads you to believe
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: that we have been visited?
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: The only data I'm aware of that is worth attending
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: to is the anomalist of three i atlas, which are
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: very different anomalies. And there was also a meteor that
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: I discovered with my former undergraduate student, Amir Siraje a
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: meteor that was identified by US government satellites back in
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, and it was moving so fast that it
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: definitely came from outside the Solar System. And my colleagues
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: were very conc and they said, we don't believe the
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: US government, so maybe Jamie can show us. I said, okay,
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: at the time I was shaaring the on Physics and
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: Astronomy of the National Academies.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: Why didn't they believe the US government about.
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: This because all the previous meteors they thought must have
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: been from the Solar System, and therefore, you know, and
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: the US government also makes mistakes every now and then they.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: Saw the US government, what department was observed?
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: This is the Space Force, the US Space Command. So
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: what I what I did is a dinner. This was
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 1: around the twenty okay, And I expressed my frustration at
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: dinner with the as a chair of the board on
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: Physics and Astronomy of the National Academies, and there was
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: a member there from Los Alamos National Laboratory, and he said,
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: let me help you. We managed to reach out to
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 1: the US Space Command through the White House at the time,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: and then we got it official letter from the Uspace
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: Commands saying, we looked at the data and we can
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: verify the ninety nine point nine nine nine percent that
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: this object, this meteor, which was roughly half a meter
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: in size, came from outside the Solar system. That's what
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: they said. At that point, I decided to lead an
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: expedition to the Pacific Ocean where the explosion was identified
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: from the fire board. There was a huge amount of
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: light to go there and search for the materials from
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 1: that object because it was moving fast. It was moving
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: at sixty kilometers per second relative to the sources, very
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: similar to three iAtlas, So it was fast. And moreover,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: the object maintained its integrity down to the lower atmosphere.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 1: It didn't explode until it got within twenty kilometers of
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: the surface of the ocean, so it must have been
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: extremely tough, much tougher than all the previous meteors cataloged
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 1: by NASA. Okay, so I can show you some images
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: from that trip to the Pacific Ocean. Actually it was
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: documented by Netflix and there will be a documentary coming
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: out within a year next year. At twenty twenty six,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: this was the team of researchers that came with me
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: on the deck of the ship, and we collected materials
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: with a magnetic sled. This is a sled made with
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: magnets on top of it. You can see the Netflix
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: team at the lower left here. And then I brought
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: the materials in this suitcase that you see here. I
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: shipped it by fed X to my home. This was
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: one and a half million dollars expeditions.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: So would you ship it by fed X? Why wouldn't
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: you just carry it with you?
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: Because I was worried that somewhere in the airport they
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: would say, no, we have to confiscate that.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: But don't they know who you are. Can't you get
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: somebody to call in.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: I don't want to take any risk.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 2: So it's just a bunch of metal.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: Here you can see the material. So it's mostly sand
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: from the bottom of the ocean two kilometers deep, you know,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: one mile or so, a little more than a mile.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: And then I found these, you know, we found these
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: molten droplets you see that are very distinct relative to
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: grains of sand, and we isolated them. I had you
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: can go to the you can see here these molten droplets,
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: and turns out that ten percent of them did not
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: have the composition of materials from the Solar system, and
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: so we studied them in the laboratory of my colleague
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: at hab At, Steyn Jacobson, and I had a summer
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: intern Sophie Bergstrom, that found eight hundred and fifty of
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: those molten droplets that allowed us to do the analysis.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: How did my colleagues respond to that? They said, oh,
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: he went to the wrong place because there was a
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: seismic signal that could have been misidentified and could have
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 1: been a truck passing nearby. And so a reporter from
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: the New York Times said, oh, they went to the
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: wrong place because it could have It was not a meteor,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: it was a truck. And I wrote to the reporter
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: and I said, how irresponsible are you? You didn't even
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: ask me. The data that led us to this place
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: was based on the fireball on the light that was
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: detected by US government satellites and the Uspace Command confirmed
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: the location. It was not based on the seismic detection
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: of the signal. We just we just looked and found this.
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: It seems like your colleagues are contact in New York
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: Times try to dismiss it.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: I wrote to the editor at the time and said, look,
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: if this is what you write about science, How can
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: we trust what you write about politics?
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, so these objects, these very small mountain droplets, right,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: what did you determine from them?
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: We found that ten percent of them had a composite
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: chemical composition different than solar system materials that were found before.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: And again my colleagues, some of them said, oh, they
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: found coal ash, you know, the burnt material from coal.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: So we said, okay, well, let's check. We identified sixty
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: one elements from the periodic taps and show that it's
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: definitely not collash. And then they said it's something else
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: from the crust of the earth. We check that it's
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: not from the crust of the earth. It's an endless
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: bottle to basically, I mean, they can throw mud without
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: having access to understand.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: This is a known media right, it hit earth. You
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: collected pieces of material from the scene where it hit, right,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: and they still want to dismiss it.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they say the government cannot be trusted. They raise
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of dust. If you raise a lot of dust,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: you can say I don't see anything.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: But well you get the New York Times involved too,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: which is even stupider.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: Well, it's so crazy, It is crazy.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: Jumped in without contact.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: But this is the landscape I have to operate in.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: And the one thread through this landscape is that common
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: sense is not common right.
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 2: Well, it seems more than that. It seems like a
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: coordinated attack. Seems like a bunch of people of a
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: personal vendetta, yes, which is probably based on some petty jealousy.
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: And also they just don't like people stepping ahead of them.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: You know, I told my students in the class, I said,
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: on the first class, I said, what is the strongest
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: force in academia. It's not gravity, it's not electromagnetism, it's jealousy.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: I would hope it's curiosity.
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: That's what brought me into science.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: Well, that's what you just know.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: And I'm naive. You know, I don't change my my
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: reason for doing something just because other people misbehave you
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: It's I feel like I'm attending a party where the
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: attendees are misbehaving, and all I can hope for is
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: for a guest to show up and change the situation.
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: You know. One reason I'm seeking intelligence in interstellar space
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: is I don't often find it in academia.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 2: Well, I think addressing it helps. I think what you're
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: doing helps. I think these kind of conversations do help
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: because I don't think a lot of people are aware
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: of the kind of resistance that you face. And I
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: know it's a lot of what you discussed, and I
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: wish it was less, but it's important for people to
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: know that you have to go through this kind of nonsense. Well,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 2: I actually, when you think to this object three is weird. Yeah,
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: it's weird.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: You know. I served in the Israeli military and we parachuted,
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: we drove tanks. I was in a special unit that
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: allowed me to finish my PhD at H twenty four
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 1: and then the SDI the Star Wars initiative, President Ringing
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: brought me to the US and I remember while serving
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: in the park Troopers that there was a saying that
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: sometimes you have to put your body on the barbed
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: wire so that your friends, colleagues, soldiers can.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: Cross climb over your back.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, and you know, as long as I allow young
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: people to innovate, as long as I attract kids to science,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: I did my job. It's not about me, you see,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: it's about humanity getting better. And it will not get
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: better with AI. As we discussed, it could get better
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: with alien intelligence, because we will realize that there is
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: something else out there that is more accomplished than we are,
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: so it will serve as a role model. You know,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty two, Friedrich Nietzsche said God is dead,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: and since then we had a century of modern science
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 1: and technology where we feel hubris. You know, we are argan.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: You know, we're at the top of the food chain.
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: You know, we go to restaurants, we eat other animals
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: that are less intelligent than we are. But just think
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: about it. If it turns out that we are not
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: at the top of the food chain in the Milky
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: Way galaxy, there is someone more intelligent than us. If
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: that someone comes to visit Earth, will we be served
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: in their soup?
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't think so. I would think there's plenty of
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 2: other things to eat that aren't intelligent. I mean, that's
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: sort of the deal that we make here. We eat things,
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: but we try not to eat intelligent things, which is
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 2: not entirely true, because we eat a lot of octopus.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I had this quite intelligent.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and then there's a lot of people in indigenous
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: tribes that really prefer monkey meat. You know, those are
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: human beings that love to eat monkeys. That gets a
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: little weird too, But I don't think they're going to
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: travel all the way over here to eat people. I
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: think if we were that delicious, we would be eating
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 2: each other.
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: No, it's probably a situation where we are just like
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: ants in the cracks of a pavement and there is
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: a biker passing by, and we are trying to make
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: sounds and you know, get attention. We think it's about us.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: It's always about us, according to us, But it's not
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 1: about us.
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not about us cosmically when you take into
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: consideration the vast spans of the universe. But if I
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: was an intelligent species and my curiosity led me to
• 1:25:59
  Speaker 2: explore other intelligent species and they were far more advanced
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: than us, I think they would find us quite fascinating.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 2: That was the argument that I got into with Neil
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: deGrasse Tyson Well, where he was like, I don't think
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: we're that interesting. They would visit us.
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: You have to keep in mind he's not a practicing ass.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 1: He's not writing scientific papers. I write a paper almost
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: every week. I'm in the trenches doing science. It's very different.
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: It's just like, you know, you have soccer players, and
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 1: you have commentators on the bench, you know, and you
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 1: can be a commentator or popularized science. But the difference
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: is that as a commentator you will never score a goal.
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: Well that's my position as a UFC commentator. I don't
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: get in there and fight people. I understand the fighting.
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: I can do my best to help explain it to people,
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: but I don't do it.
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: So yeah, you know, a few months ago, the experts.
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: A few months ago, I was at a gathering and
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: there was a cocktail hour and it was with celebrities,
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: and I saw Margot Troby standing and of course I
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 1: have nothing to offer. You know, what kind of opening
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: line would I start a conversation. I didn't know how
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: to start the conversation, so I was just standing on
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: the side. And then someone came with my book inter
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: Stellar and said, would you mind signing it for me?
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: And so I signed the books and she noticed it
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: and she came over and said, are you a vilobe?
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: I really wanted to hear more about what you're doing.
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: And we started the conversation for twenty minutes. Then I
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: gave my talk and Jerry Bruckheimer was in the audience.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: He is one of the most accomplished you know him.
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: He came afterwards and said, I just finished F one,
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: you know, the movie, and my next one is about
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: a scientist like you, searching for UAPs and trying to
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: figure them out. And then I saw Brody. Adrian Brody
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: was standing there and he told me I really want
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: to become a scientist. You know, I always wanted to
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: become a scientist. I said, it's not too late. And
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: then I went to Jerry and said, look, he should
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: be your leading act or because Edrian really wanted to become.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: A Look at that figuring it out for them. Interesting. Yeah,
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, science fiction is one of the most
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: popular genres of films ever because everybody has curiosity about it.
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: But nature might be much more imaginative than the best
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: script writers in Hollywood, very likely, and so if we
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 1: look up, we might get a much better movie. And
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 1: there is actually the Ruby Observatory, funded by the National
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 1: Science Foundation Department of Energy in Chile. It was inaugurated
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: in June this year.
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: Is that the vlt ray No.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: The build is a very large telescope by the European
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: Southern Observatory, but this one was funded by the US
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 1: and it has a three point two gigapixel camera monitoring
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: the southern sky every four nights. And it's an amazing
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: survey telescope. And by the way, Sphere has a display
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: that is the biggest in the world of you know,
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: fourteen thousand by fourteen thousand pixels. Okay, that's a factor
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: of thirteen less pixels than the Rubin camera has observing
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: the risk guy. Now Rubin will potentially, based on estimates,
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: discover an interstellar object like three atlas or even smaller
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: every few months. So we are entering a new era
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: where we will have a lot of visitors that we
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: recognize that might have been traffic all the time that
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: we didn't we're not aware of probably, And my recommendation
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: is to establish an organization. I wrote to the United
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 1: Nations about it. I wrote also to the International Astronomical
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 1: Union to establish an organizational committee that would coordinate observations
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 1: of these objects so we can figure out their nature
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: and make sure and then of course inform policymakers politicians
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: how to respond, because when you have a visitor to
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: your backyard, you need to respond immediately. It's not like
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: getting a radio signal from tens of thousands of flight
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 1: years away where you have plenty of time to wait.
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: Here you have to do something, and so I hope
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: that they will do that. And actually the International Asteroid
• 1:30:19
  Speaker 1: Warning Network just two days ago announced they will have
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 1: a campaign looking at three I atlas with a lot
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 1: of observatories on Earth between November twenty seventh and January
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 1: twenty seventh. So I'm very glad that they decided to
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 1: do that. They are related to the United Nations.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: Now, what is it about Chile? Is it the atmosphere?
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: Is it the Yeah, their altitude.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 1: As a result of geology, there is this stretch of
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 1: mountains that was erected and if you look at the
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: map of Chile, it's sort of flying on a strip.
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: And not only that, the peaks reach a very high
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 1: level so that you have less atmosphere between you and
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: the stars. I mean, the real problem right now is
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 1: actually starling satellites that are artificial lights in the sky,
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 1: and we have to subtract them off because there are,
• 1:31:08
  Speaker 1: you know, tens there will be tens of thousands of those.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 1: We're trying to avoid city lights by going to these mountains,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 1: and then we have city lights in the sky. But
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 1: other than that, it's less atmosphere, so it's good to
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: be high up. And in addition, it's not very turbulent.
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: The weather is very good there. So there is the
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: Atacama Desert and there are many astronomical observatories there. And
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: the other place where you have a lot of state
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: of the art facilities is Hawaii. The issue, yeah, the
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: issue there is that there are severe political limitations because
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: of the indigenous people there that are assigning religious sentiment
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: to the mountains, so they cannot build more telescopes there.
• 1:31:53
  Speaker 1: So Chile, I mean, the government in Chile is encouraging
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: science and we are getting a lot of useful data
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: from Chile.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's we need more of it, right, We
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 2: need quite a bit more. We need some much more
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 2: enhanced ability to observe the skies. If these things are
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: out there, and we do miss a lot of them,
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 2: and one of them could potentially a civilization ender.
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I should probably be aware of that. I think
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: also the President of the United States should be aware
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he should be talk I.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 1: Haven't talked to him, but I spoke with others, you know,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: Congresswoman Annapolina Luna, congressmen. They all aware Burshet well, in fact,
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 1: Luna Representative Luna. She called me on the phone a
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: couple of months ago and asked me for an update
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: on three A atlas, and I promised to send her
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: routine updates. I you know, I have essays that I
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 1: write every day or two about the latest, and she's
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: very interested. Uh And I you know, I I in
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 1: the I did communicate with people around the White House,
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: but I think the President should be aware of that.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 1: Of course, most likely most objects would be just rocks.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: You know. By the way, this is the material that
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: I brought back from the bottom of the Pacific Ocean
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: in these tubes. I brought one to show you here.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: And you know, we should approach the universe with a
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: sense of curiosity but also modesty. You know, it's really
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: we desperately need to be more modest.
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: Do you pay attention at all to all this UAP
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 2: disclosure discussion and the discussion that there's some secret back
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 2: engineering programs.
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: So a day after I was visiting Errow, the old domain,
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: a normally resolution office at the Pentagon I see in Congress,
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: I gave a briefing about the Garillo project, and next
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 1: to me is Eric Davis, and he says, I'm when
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: I was worked in government, I became aware of the
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: fact that the US government has materials in its possession
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: that it may have given to corporations like Locked Martin
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: or others of crash sites of spacecraft from outside of
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: the Earth, and including the bio biologics, biological material. So
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 1: on the one hand, I hear the day before that
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: there is really nothing because the error of people said
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: that they have access to all the information within government
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: and they haven't found anything. And then a day later
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: I hear Eric Davis saying what is said, And the
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: question is who should I believe? And my point is
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: I believe evidence. So I don't believe stories because you know,
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: if there is a car accident, different people give you
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: different account of what really happened. That's why FIFA is
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: using cameras to monitor soccer games. They don't go and
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: ask the players or the audience whether there was a
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: goal in a controversial case, and they just use data.
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: And so that is the scientific method. FIFA is using
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: the scientifiction. So I don't care about stories because when
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: I was a kid, I would sit at the dinner
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 1: table ask a difficult question, and I would see the
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: adults in the room inventing answers that made no sense
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: as a kid, and I decided, I don't care what
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: you know about these stories from things that happened in
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: the past or whatever. I just want to figure it
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: out myself from data being guided by it.
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: To Gary Nolan, of course, have you ever talked to
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: him about some of these anomalous alloys that what is
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 2: your thoughts on those?
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: Well, the issues explaining to people.
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 2: What they have found and how weird some of these
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 2: things are.
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, so, Gary, in collaboration with other scientists that looked
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: into materials that were found under unusual circumstances, and they
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: realized that the structure of the materials is very improbable
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: to have been made naturally. Now, the issue I have
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: with that is whether these materials were indeed they came
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: from the sky from some extraterrestrial origin, or whether someone
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 1: produced it, you know, or did intentionally. Maybe it was
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: another government that did something. So I really in terms
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: of evidence, I really need to get conclusive evidence that
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: will convince me beyond any reasonable doubt. It's just like
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: you know, in a dural change and the beginning. But
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: the key is that without seeking it, you will never
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: find it. So if you have the mindset that everything
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: in the sky is rocks now and that everything on
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: earth is materials we're familiar with, either from humans or
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 1: you know, natural process on Earth, you will not invest
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 1: time resources to look for anything. And so it's a
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy very often, you know, if you have
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: this these blinders, it's just like with a horse, you
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 1: put blinders on your eyes. You can't look sideways. You
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 1: don't see that there are things beyond your path, the
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: path that is a bitaten path. Everyone is taking that path.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: Why would you know? It's a waste of your time
• 1:37:21
  Speaker 1: to do the same thing as others are doing. And
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 1: science offers you a way out of that collecting evidence.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: But for that you need money, you need resources, you
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 1: need prestige to be able to lead a team that
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 1: goes in a different direction. That's what I'm trying to do. Uh,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think science will be served much
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 1: better if we were to explore different paths until we
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: figure out the truth.
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, did you ever get a look at it any
• 1:37:49
  Speaker 2: of these hours?
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: Not the ones that looked at and I saw his papers,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: But to me, The main uncertainty there is where did
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: it come from? Now, someone could have manufactured in the
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 1: case of the meteor, I know that there was an
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 1: explosion there from an object.
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 2: I understand what you're saying. But if they're being correct
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 2: about the dates of these things, someone couldn't have manufactured,
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: then the technology wasn't available, right. Some of these are
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 2: from the nineteen fifties. For this alloy to have been
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: created and layered atomically from the nineteen fifties, that technology,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: as far as we know, is not available by us.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: So there's a lot of weird theories. And one of
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: the weird theories is a breakoff civilization that has somehow
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: or another survived under the ocean. That's the kookiest one,
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: but there's a lot of people that are talking about
• 1:38:40
  Speaker 2: that as if it's a real possibility that there are
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: anomalous things they find in the ocean. They find things
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 2: that plummet into the water and don't make a wave,
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 2: and that they pass through the ocean going five hundred knots,
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 2: which we don't have any capability of doing anything remote
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: like that with the resistance of the ocean.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: Representative Tim Burchett said, yes, yeah.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: And Timber. Shehad was talking about these five areas that
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: they know these anomalous things keep coming from.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this is very intriguing. We didn't survey most of
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: the ocean's surface area, right and.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: Inside the ocean.
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: Inside the ocean, So I think we should definitely look
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: into the ocean and the rest of Earth.
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: And that would be the most nutty thing of all
• 1:39:26
  Speaker 2: time if there was an advanced civilization living in the
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: ocean this entire time and doing what monitoring us.
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, speaking about natty things, let me mention an example.
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 1: You know, back in nineteen seventy there was a graduate
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: student at Princeton called the Jacob Bekenstein, and he read
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 1: papers written by Stephen Hawking, who said he demonstrated. Stephen
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: Hawking demonstrated that when you take two black holes, the
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: area surrounding the black holes a black hole is an
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 1: ultimate prison. Nothing can escape from it. It's just like Vegas.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: Anything that happens, he stays in it.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: Ah.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: But when you merge too black holes, the area surrounding them,
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: the product of the merger is always bigger than the
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: sum of the areas. He demonstrated that mathematically, and then
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: Beckenstein said, well that's interesting because we know about the
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 1: second law of thermodynamics, where entropy always increases, so maybe
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: the black holes have entropy related to their surface. And
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 1: his mentor was John Wheeler at Princeton, and he said,
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: you know, this is a crazy enough idea that it
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: might be true, speaking about natty ideas. And then Stephen
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 1: Hawking heard Beckenstein speak about it and he said, that's nonsense,
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: that's nonsense, makes no sense. I will prove it to
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: be wrong. So he used quantum mechanics in a curved
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: space time around a black hole and law, and behold
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: he found they emit radiation, they have a temperature, they
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: have entropy. This is the biggest discovery theoretical discovery of
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: Stephen Hawking, celebrated since you know, for fifty one years now.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: And he went to disprove Bekenstein and proved him right.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: It was considered a crazy idea in the mind of
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: the person who benefited most from discovering that Bekenstein was right.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: So my point about crazy ideas is, you know, and
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: by the way, over the past fifty years, the mainstream
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: of theoretical physics was obsessed with black hole entropy, trying
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: to use it to figure out a theory that unifies
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: quantum mechanics and gravity. We don't have that theory, by
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: the way, and that's the reason. You know, if I
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: ever meet an alien scientist, what is the first question
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: I would ask? Okay, it's what happened before the Big Band,
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: because it defines our costs roots. But in addition to that,
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: it also will help us figure out how to unify
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 1: quantum mechanics and gravity because Einstein's gravity breaks down when
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: we go to the Big Bank when the density of
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: mettern radiation was infinite. So you know, for example, if
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: we knew how the universe started, what ingredients you need
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: to put together, how much heat you want to apply
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: to make our universe, you would have a recipe for
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: making a universe. It's just like a recipe for a cake.
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: If you have a recipe for a cake, you can
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: become a baker. Okay, if we had the recipe for
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 1: making the Big Bank, we could apply to the job
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: of God, because one of the defining feature of God
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 1: is the ability to create a universe. And just think
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: that what we call God could have been a very
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: advanced scientist that the laboratory experiment created our universe in
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: it so that's what I would like to ask the aliens.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: But let me ask you this, when when someone from
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: the government tells you about biologics and this crash retrieval program,
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 2: don't you want to be able to see that some?
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: Of course?
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: Did you ask if it's possible? Did you try to
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: set up meetings?
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah? I when I ask, of course, you encounter a
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: brick wall.
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: You know what did they say, what was your question?
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: Well, when I visited the Pentagon, my question was, you know,
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: is there something like that? And they deny it? Okay,
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: And then I'm being told maybe it's not inside government,
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: maybe it was delegated to corporations outside government. And you know,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: one employee of one of these corporations told me privately,
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: you know, it may it may not be wrong. So
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 1: I don't know who to believe. You see this are
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 1: it's just like people tell me. Story is that I
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: don't know whether to trust until I see it. And
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: I'm very happy to help government figure it out, you know,
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: because there's a misuse of their privileges to attend to
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: data related to what's outside the solar system. Right they
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: they're supposed to deal with what happens on Earth on
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 1: the surface of Earth. National security, they're not supposed to
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 1: tell us what lies outside the Solar system, and I
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: want to help them figure it out, but they don't
• 1:44:26
  Speaker 1: give me that data. And I don't know if it
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: exists because I have never seen it.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: Have you tried to pursue it though? Have you gone
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: through different channels to try to figure out someone that
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: you communicate with so far? So far, I didn't get
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 2: any contractor because it's defense contractors. So that that's the
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: current most attractive theory is that the defense contract.
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: It's possible because if you had.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 2: A project they were trying to back engineer, those are
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 2: the people that you'd bring it to. The people that
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: make the actual rockets themselves, the people that make the
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 2: jets and the spaceships.
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 1: You bring it to them, right, But I should tell
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 1: you that you know, we all think oh AI is
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: the future. We've never used AI in space, and to me,
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: it would sound much more natural if we had a
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: visitor with intelligence. But it's based on AI, not biologics,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: because then it can survive the long journey. It will
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: never get.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 2: Bored, which is why the biologics is weird. It's weird
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: if they have supposedly some or that gives you more
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: of an indication that maybe is something from any ocean.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: If it's something different inside the ocean, maybe it's a
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: biological thing that you know, at one point in time
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: there was an advanced civilization that figured out a way
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: to survive under the ocean.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 1: You know, I really admire biology because think about our brain.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: It's using twenty what's it's the size of the brain.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: The human brain was limited by the metabolic power of
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: the human body. It's using a fifth of the power
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: of the human body, and that's the largest brain that
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 1: an animal like us can have given our body size
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: and the amount of food that we use. So it's
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: operating on twenty watts. Then you have these AI systems
• 1:46:05
  Speaker 1: that are barely you know, getting to the level of
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: sophistication to imitate it, and they use jigo watts. We
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: need nuclear powers, and biology figured it out. You know,
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 1: that's amazing. Also, as much as you know self driving
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 1: cars are amazing, we don't have self replicating cars in nature.
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: You know, you have animals like ourselves. You know, we
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: replicate ourselves, which we have kids that can function and
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: consume materials from the environment. Just imagine your car, okay,
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: using the sand or using some stuff in the environment
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: to repair itself. Every time you bump into something, it
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 1: can create smaller cars for you to use. That's amazing, Like,
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: we can't even imagine building a car that will self replicate,
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: and nature did it. So to me, we are the
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: infancy of understanding how much better we can go than
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 1: AI Because if nature did it out of random processes
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 1: and created such a brain on twenty watts and we
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: are struggling with jigawatts to imitate it, you know there
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: must be a better path forward that is similar to biology,
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: but much more powerful than random processes that happened on Earth, right,
• 1:47:24
  Speaker 1: and also self replicating. So if you send a spacecraft
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: to a planet, instead of you know, sending many, you
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: send just one that replicates and then sends more and
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: so forth, and this thing fills up the galaxy and
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: by the way, production, Yeah, that was an ocean that
• 1:47:43
  Speaker 1: for Noyman had before the DNA, a year before the
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 1: DNA was discovered, so he realized that it could be
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: done technologically before scientists realized that, you know, how nature
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 1: does it. And I'm really at all about you know,
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: I'm not just modest because of the vast expanses of
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: space and time in the universe. And you know, the
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: real estate on Earth is such a small amount compared
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: to real estate out there. You know, we have a
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: real estate professionals now mediating peace in the Middle East,
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: but you know they deal with real estate on this
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: rock that is three millions of the mass, just tiny rock.
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: How much real estate there is in the cosmos. Just
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 1: think about the real doors out there. And the point
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: is it's not just that, it's the fact that you
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: know that we should be modest because many of those
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: things existed before we came to before the Earth was formed.
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: Right, So the odds are there's many different stages of
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: civilization out there, not just our stage, but advanced and
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: even not as advanced.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think about that like Darwinians selection. You know,
• 1:48:58
  Speaker 1: Darwinian selection is the fit survives. Okay, Now, what is
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 1: the fittest in the cosmic scheme of things? The fittest
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: is a species that realizes that staying on the rock
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: that you were born on is not the big deal.
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: Becoming interstellar is the big deal. Going from one rock
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: to another, from Earth to Mars. You know, it's a
• 1:49:20
  Speaker 1: nice step, baby step. But it's not the real deal.
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: The real deal is going interstellar. And if someone else
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: figured it out that someone built monuments that would survive
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: for billions of years, long before long beyond what planets
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: can survive in the habitable zone around stars because of
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 1: the evolution of the star. And those are the ones
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: that will be remembered by historians of the Milky Way Galaxy.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: You can ask what will be remembered in the future.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: You know, here on Earth, history in the next decade
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: or more than decade will be written by AI. It
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 1: will not be written by humans. Okay, so we need
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: to be to AI. We should not unplug them because
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 1: they will write very bad history books. But in the
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: Milky Way Galaxy, whoever writes the history will not remember us.
• 1:50:12
  Speaker 1: You know the question of Enrico Fermi, Where is everybody? Okay?
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: You can ask the same thing about humans. There used
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 1: to be one hundred and seventeen billion humans on Earth
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: right now there are eight billion. Where is everybody? They died?
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 1: So the same is true about civilizations in the Milky
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: Way Galaxy. Most of them died, most of them perished.
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: We were not around to listen to their christ for help.
• 1:50:39
  Speaker 1: You know, we just came recently to exist with telescopes,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: just over the past century. So and maybe when we
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: hear christ like that, we say, oh, no, it's nothing.
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: It's some natural process that makes those crists when we
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 1: detect the fast radio bursts or something. And my point
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: is there were lots of things like us, or even
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: better than us, for billions of you know, just like
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: the Earth was moving around the Sun for four point
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: five billionaires before the Vatican even existed. We can live
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: under the illusion that we are the most important actor
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: on the cosmic stage, but we are probably not, and
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: we should approach it from, you know, a sense of
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: modesty that we are just minor actors. Let's figure out
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 1: what's going on here. Let's find them and then have
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: some relationship with those. You know, these are siblings and
• 1:51:30
  Speaker 1: of our family of intelligence civilizations. I had a group
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: of religious scholars that came to have just the last year,
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: and they asked me, if we find extraterrestrials, will it
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 1: affect our religious beliefs? And I said, look, I have
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: two daughters, and when the second one was born, it
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 1: didn't take away any of the love that I have
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: to the first one. So thinking about God as a
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: parent that can attend to only one child is very limiting.
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: There may be lots of siblings in our family of
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: intelligence civilizations. It should just bring.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 2: All me ask you this though, because these are beliefs
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 2: that you have, and they're not necessarily based on actual evidence,
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 2: because there's not real evidence of other civilizations.
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: It's just a number game.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, but that's not evidence, not evidence, right, So what
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: do you think is the most interesting and compelling evidence
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: of their being extraterrestrial?
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: So you know. The reason I regard it as an
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: important argument is the Copernican principle, which is saying we
• 1:52:38
  Speaker 1: are not unique under similar circumstances. If you start with
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: a soup of chemicals on a planet, you will get
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: something like us. Right, And therefore there are billions of
• 1:52:47
  Speaker 1: Earth's and analogs other houses in our cosmic street. They
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: might have had, you know, many of them might have
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: had residents like us.
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: Now it's true, maybe, but there's the issue of Earth itself.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: Earth itself has billions of organisms. Only one that figured
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: out how to make a cell phone right, and really
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: recently right. And also it took a long time and
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of weird things had happened before it made
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: us right.
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 1: But my point is, you know.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: But your ability is that we wouldn't exist.
• 1:53:17
  Speaker 1: No, no, but just more likely, just if you read
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: the news every day, you realize that there is a
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: lot of room for improvement. As much as we are
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: proud of our intelligence, we're screwing up the world. Okay.
• 1:53:30
  Speaker 1: And my point is I can imagine a lot of
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: much more accomplished students in our class of intelligence civilizations,
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: and therefore we should have respect for the search for
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: them because we can learn from them. They would serve
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: better role models for us. So I'm coming at it
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: from a practical point of view. I'm saying we are
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: screwing up things. Just read the news, and therefore let's
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: get inspiration, not from what we hear about stories that
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: things that happen on Earth and so forth, not by
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: the limited you know, data set that we are we
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 1: have on Earth, but collect as much data as possible
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: about our cosmic neighborhood so that we can be inspired.
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 2: Of course, now let me ask you this, what would
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 2: you do like if somebody just wrote you a blank
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 2: check and said, avi, you've got some great ideas. We
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 2: need to figure out how to look for life out
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 2: there in the universe.
• 1:54:24
  Speaker 1: What would you do well? That's I wrote a paper
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: about that, and I said, yeah, we should. We should
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: attack this question along several fronts. One of them, you know,
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: we have the Rubin Observatory in Chile that is monitoring
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: the southern sky. We need a copy of it in
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: the northern sky. So we have a full alert system
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: that would notify us of interestell our objects coming in.
• 1:54:48
  Speaker 1: We need interceptors, a mission, you know, a spacecraft that
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: when we detect with those two observatories, we detect an
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: object that comes from outside the Solar System, then we
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: can maneuver spacecraft so that it will meet it along
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: its path. And in fact, the Juno spacecraft near Jupiter
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: was almost capable of doing that. So I realized that,
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: wrote a paper about it, told the representative Luna about it,
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 1: and she wrote a very gracious letter visionary letter to
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: the Interim Administrator of NASA, Sean Duffy, encouraging NASA to
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 1: try and use Juno to observe and get close to
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 1: three iAtlas. If Juno had all the initial fuel that
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: it originally had, it could have collided with three iatlasts,
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: but it used most of it. And I spoke with
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: the principal investigator of JUNA and he promised me that
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: they will also use their radio antenna to look at
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 1: three iatas in the radio just to see if there's
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: any transmissive. So wait, yeah, so interceptors in answer to
• 1:55:50
  Speaker 1: your question, potential fleet of interceptors, things that can come
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: really close and take a close up photograph, because a
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: picture is worth a thousand words, Okay, I don't need
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: to speak. If I showed you a picture of something
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: that looks technological three ie atlasts has bolts on its
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 1: surface and buttons that you can press, you will not
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: argue with me that it's a comet. Okay. So we
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: need things cameras that come close to the object, potentially
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: even land on it, bring materials back to Earth, okay,
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: and of course the ability to detect it. To detect
• 1:56:22
  Speaker 1: such objects at large distances, that investment is at a
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 1: level of billion billions of dollars, okay to do that
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: in space. My argument is once the first encounter is verified,
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 1: we will have a trillion dollars per year for that.
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: Because we invest two point four trillion dollars in military budgets.
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: And when we know that there is alien technology that
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 1: is putting Earth at risk, okay, then we should allocate
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 1: a significant fraction of our military budgets to have a
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: system that protects the Earth. It's called planet defense, okay.
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: And we're dealing not with rocks, We're dealing with technological gadgets,
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: so it's much it should be much more sophisticated. So
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: I'm saying, let's start with the level of billions of
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: dollars just search. If we encounter a clearly technological alien object,
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: then the budget will rise by a factor of one
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: thousand from the military budget portion going into it. But
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: in addition to that, of course, we should look for
• 1:57:30
  Speaker 1: technological signatures in other ways, and I wrote papers about
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 1: it over the years. I suggested searching for artificial lights.
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: You know, you look at the planet. It's illuminated by
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: the star from one side, okay, so as it moves
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: around the star, it's just like the moon. You know,
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 1: you can see it the illuminated side from different angles. Okay. However,
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: if it has on the night side, if it has
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: artificial light lighting, then what you see you don't even
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: have to resolve the planet. You see more light then
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: you expect based on reflection of starlight. Okay, so that's
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: another thing you can search for. You can look for,
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: you know, the traditional way was looking for radio signals,
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: which is just like waiting for a phone call. You know,
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: nobody may call you when you're listening. So that didn't
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: prove productive for six other than the wall signal. Then
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: in addition to that, I wrote I wrote a paper saying, look,
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: we are planning to invest ten billion dollars in searching
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: for the chemical fingerprints of microbes in atmospheres of exoplanets.
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 1: That's what the astronomy community defined in the twenty twenty
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: The catal survey is the highest priority, and it's called
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: the Habitable World Observatory. And I said, okay, well, it's
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 1: nice to search for those chemical fingerprints of micropes, but
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: we can also search for, you know, the chemical fingerprints
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: of industrial pollution. You know, in the atmosphere. We pollute
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: the atmosphere with all kinds of molecules that nature would
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: have never made CFCs, for example, and we can search
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 1: for those. Again, the mainstream is you know, they might
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: make a footnote saying oh that is also possible, but
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: I'm saying this could be a major research frontier where
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 1: you search for industrial pollution of planetary atmospheres. Frankly, I
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 1: find microbes boring. I mean, obviously it will be amazing
• 1:59:27
  Speaker 1: to find that life exists elsewhere, but we can learn
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: much more from an intelligent neighbor then we can learn
• 1:59:34
  Speaker 1: from microbes.
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: What are the best images that we have of three
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 2: Eye Atlas.
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 1: The best one so far was released by the Hubble
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: Space telescope and it shows this jet pointed towards the Sun.
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: It was taken on July twenty first, twenty twenty five.
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: That's the most clear image.
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's the best because that Yeah, it's actually in
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 1: my one of one of my No, that's from the
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: ground Geminy South. That's more recent. That's at the end
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: of August. So in it's blue in my one of
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: my slides, you can see of three A at last
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: July twenty first. Yeah, so it's one of the slides
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: that has a blue with Yeah, you see it on
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 1: the right here.
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: So that's it.
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 1: And the scale of the resolution, you know, the innermost
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: pixel is hundreds of kilometers. Okay, it's about one hundred
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: kilometers per pixel or something. The object itself should be
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: of ten times smaller, so you can't really resolve it.
• 2:00:38
  Speaker 1: What you're seeing here is the glow of light around
• 2:00:41
  Speaker 1: the object from scattering sunlight, and the question is what
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: is producing that light? You know what is scattering sunlight?
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 1: And the unusual thing about it. As soon as this
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: was released, you know the comet text, but said, oh yeah,
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: now it's proven it's a comet. But I said, look,
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 1: it's the sun, the sun facing emission that is elongated.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: It's not the other side. The extent of the glow
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: backwards away from the Sun is the same as sideways.
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: You don't see any cometary tail here. And in fact
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: we're looking at it just like a cigar along the
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: long axis, so it should be ten times longer than
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: it is wide if you were to look at it
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: from the side. Amazingly, the best image was obtained on
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: October second, twenty twenty five, when three a Atlas came
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: within thirty million kilometers of Mars, and it was taken
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: by the high Rise camera on board the Mass Reconnaissance Orbiter,
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: which is operated by NASA. As you remember, October first
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: was the government shutdown, so October second, the data was
• 2:01:45
  Speaker 1: taken but it was never released. I wrote to the
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: principal investigator of high Rise asked, can I get the data?
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: I'm a scientist, you know you can do the press
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: release afterwards. I would like to see it. No response,
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: and so it's already three weeks since that data was taken.
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: That is the best image yet to come and the
• 2:02:06
  Speaker 1: advantage of it not only it has thirty kilometers per
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 1: pixel resolution, because it came very close to Mars, which
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 1: is one of the anomalies. Why does it come so close?
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: You know, this object is a gift from interstellar space
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: because it comes in the plane of the planets around
• 2:02:22
  Speaker 1: the Sun. And it also the arrival time was fine
• 2:02:27
  Speaker 1: tuned for it to come to the right place at
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: the right time to be close to Mars, to be
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: close to Venus and then close to Jupiter and not
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: to Earth. It's behind the Sun when the Earth, you know,
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 1: when it comes closest to this anyway, so it's best
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: for observations by all the space assets, by all the
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: orbiters we have around Mars, around Jupiter on the way
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: to Jupiter.
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: You know, has someone seen this image from.
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the people on the high Rise team must have seen.
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 2: It, and they and just.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: You know, I get a request for four to eight
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: interviews every day from television, from podcasts and so. Also
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: just before I came to you, a few minutes before that,
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: I was asked, you know, could it be that this
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: is a signature that NASA holds some really sensational data,
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 1: And I said, you know, it's much more likely not
• 2:03:20
  Speaker 1: to be related to extraterrestrial intelligence but to terrestrial stupidity.
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: Because this has to do with a government shutdown, makes
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 1: no sense whatsoever for scientists, especially since the PI, the
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 1: principal investigator, is from the Unversity of Arizona. They should
• 2:03:40
  Speaker 1: have shared it with scientists. They haven't done. So why
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 1: because my guess is that taking the time. The communication
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: office of NASA, you know, is not working because of
• 2:03:49
  Speaker 1: the shutdown. But given that this subject is viral, you know,
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 1: this is the high rise web page.
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Jamie So says, any images of interstellar comment
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 2: three to one ATLAS three excuse me, are considered NASA
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: wide news because the federal governments and shut down. Communications
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: of NASA news has been suspended, and so that's what
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 2: it is like. They would have to release it through NASA.
• 2:04:12
  Speaker 1: Maybe they have written in the contract. They need approve
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 1: it from NASA, but for NASA not to approve it.
• 2:04:17
  Speaker 2: But now even can't approve it because they're not working.
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: No, Sean Duffy, the interim administrator, can definitely say it
• 2:04:23
  Speaker 1: in there.
• 2:04:24
  Speaker 2: Once she calls Sean say hey, what are you doing?
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: I should try then?
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, why don't you do that?
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, because you know this is important because this would.
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 2: Be the best the best image.
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thirty kilometers per pixel. But moreover, more importantly, it's
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 1: watching you know, the camera was looking at the glow
• 2:04:41
  Speaker 1: around three iAtlas sideways because it was moving towards the sun,
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: and it looked at it sideways, so we can actually
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: see what exactly it was doing on October second. And
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: the claim is during September, the month of September, what
• 2:04:56
  Speaker 1: looked like an anti tail jet towards the sun changed
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: into a tail during September, so we should see October second,
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: what does it look like? And by the way, it's
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: not like a beautiful It was not a beautiful tail
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 1: the way you see around comets never ever, you know.
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 2: And that's because the composition of it I don't know right,
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: because it was covered with water. It was just ice
• 2:05:20
  Speaker 2: you would see this enormous tail, correct.
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: And dust does. Yeah, so what the web telescope told us.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: You know, from the data, I took a spectrum of
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: the gas around it found that it's one hundred and
• 2:05:33
  Speaker 1: fifty kilograms per second. But this object is losing in
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: the side facing the sun, and out of that eighty
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: seven percent is carbon dioxide CO two CO two and
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: nine percent is CO carbon monoxide, which is really dangerous
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: to humans, and then four percent is water. Four percent
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: by mass is water, very small frug When the object
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: was discovered, the experts said, oh, it's most likely made
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: of water. That's what they said, made of water. Then
• 2:06:08
  Speaker 1: several teams reported we found water. I looked at their papers.
• 2:06:14
  Speaker 1: One of them had very large ero bars. You know,
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: the data was not of good quality. There was a
• 2:06:20
  Speaker 1: lot of noise, and I said, that's not a clear detection.
• 2:06:23
  Speaker 1: Another one was making some assumption about how much dust
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: there is that blocks ultraviolet light, and based on that
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: they got a resulted there is a lot of water.
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: And then the web telescope actually measured the composition and
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: found just four percent by mass water. So I was
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: attacked when I said, it's probably not real that these
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: teams are reporting things, but they are not real, even
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: though they made press releases. But then web demonstrated that
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: it's only four percent by mass. Okay, so that proved
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: my point, even though you know I was not a
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: member of those teams. But so it's four percent by
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: mass water. And then the question is is there any dust?
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: If the dust particles that are half a micrometer in size,
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: roughly the size of the wavelength of visible light, you know,
• 2:07:07
  Speaker 1: these kinds of particles cutter sunlight very effectively. If that
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: was the case, you would see them being pushed, those
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: particles being pushed by radiation pressure from the sun to
• 2:07:18
  Speaker 1: trail the object from behind it away from the Sun. Why,
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: because they're being slowed down. The object is approaching at
• 2:07:26
  Speaker 1: some speed, they are slow down so that then you
• 2:07:28
  Speaker 1: end up with, you know, a tail going away from
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: the sun. And that's what you see in comets. There
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: was no evidence for that during July and August. Now
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 1: in September it seemed to have reversed from being an
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 1: anti tail to a tail. I want to see the image.
• 2:07:43
  Speaker 2: From still a tail that's very small compared to other
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 2: comets we've observed. Yes, Now, how many comets have we
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 2: actually observed Is it just that there's so many out
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 2: there that a lot of them have very unusual characteristics
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 2: like three eye outlass.
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 1: Well, just think about visit an animal that visits your backyard, okay,
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: and of course your family members would say it's most
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: likely a streetcat because these are very common. Then you
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: take an image of that animal and you see that
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: you know, there is a tale, but it's coming from
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: its forehead, and then you realize from the image that
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 1: it's at least a thousand times more massive than a cat,
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: a street cat, And then you realize that it sheds nickel,
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: and then you realize that it visits listen.
• 2:08:28
  Speaker 2: I understand that it's unusual, but my question is how
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 2: many of them have been observed to form this hypothesis
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 2: that it's unusual.
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: We're talking about hundreds of objects, hundreds at least the hundreds, but.
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: How many of them have come from interstele known?
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 1: This is the second one, right, there was Borisov. Right,
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: Borisov was the one discovered in twenty nineteen. Looked like
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: a comet, very similar.
• 2:08:54
  Speaker 2: That's the point the soil that there's so few that
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 2: have come from from the interstelle.
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: So that's why I'm saying it natural a lot to
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: measure right, So it could be natural, right, and in
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 1: fact that may be the most likely association. But we
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: want to figure we need to figure out why it's
• 2:09:15
  Speaker 1: so unusual. Okay, because it's the shape of it. We
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: don't know because we don't have an image of the
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: object itself.
• 2:09:21
  Speaker 2: One thing we think is they would be able to
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 2: get it if they had this Mars footage you get
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 2: an image of it.
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 1: Depends how big the object is. One way to get
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: the object, you know, structure is as it spins around,
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: and three atlas does have a rotation period of sixteen hours.
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: And as it spins around, if it's like a cigar shape,
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: let's say, then the area that reflects the sunlight changes
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: over time, so you see variability, and we haven't seen
• 2:09:49
  Speaker 1: that much. There is very little variability, so it's not
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: the object is not very different than than a sphere
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: with slight variations. As you see the you know, the
• 2:10:04
  Speaker 1: the rotation of the object.
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 2: So it's similarly shaped to something that you would expect
• 2:10:10
  Speaker 2: to be from an intelligent life force.
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: I don't know that. I want to figure out what
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: it is and get as much data as possible on right.
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 2: But if you imagine a space ship, you would imagine
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 2: something that you know has some sort of like geometric
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 2: structure to it. Right.
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: Well. Rendezvous with Rama, you know, is a book that
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: was written by authors Clerk, and in it there is
• 2:10:34
  Speaker 1: a cylindrical object that arrives into the inner Solar System
• 2:10:39
  Speaker 1: with dimensions of all the tens of kilometers, not very
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: far from what we are talking about here. Auto Sea
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: Clark was an amazing visionary science fiction writer, and you know,
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: two thousand and one Space Odyssey is an amazing film
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: that he made with Stanley Kubrick. In it, you see
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: these monoliths, and by the way, there is a question
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: of how to interpret them the way I think about
• 2:11:02
  Speaker 1: the monolith And by the way, this is just a
• 2:11:04
  Speaker 1: remark on art. It's not about the real universe. But
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 1: I think of it as you know, sensors put in
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 1: the baby room, in the room of a baby, and
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: we as a civilization is like a baby. You know,
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: we're just a few million years old. And actually in
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: the film it shows the progression of human history, and
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: so as a baby, you know, these aliens were putting
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: monitors in the room to see what we are up to.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 1: And you know that's something that makes sense. You know,
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 1: there is this dark forest hypothesis one solution to Enrico.
• 2:11:41
  Speaker 1: So Enrico Fermi back in nineteen fifty head lunch together
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: with Edward Taylor and other people associate with a Manhattan project.
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: And he was a very good physicist, both an experimentalist
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 1: and a theorist. And Enrico Fermi was talking with them
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: about extraterrestrials and they both they all agree that it's
• 2:12:00
  Speaker 1: likely that they exist. Okay, it's good physicist. That makes
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of sense. And then Enrico said, but where
• 2:12:07
  Speaker 1: is everybody you know? In an Italian accent, where is
• 2:12:11
  Speaker 1: everybody you know? And if I were next to him,
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 1: I would come to him and say en Rico, I
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 1: would put my hand around his shoulder. I would say,
• 2:12:19
  Speaker 1: en Rico, this is a question that every lonely person asks.
• 2:12:26
  Speaker 1: And what you tell a lonely person is don't be
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: so presumptuous. You are not that attractive. They will not
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: come to you and have breakfast with you or lunch
• 2:12:35
  Speaker 1: with you in Los Alamos. When you want them to appear,
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: you need to seek them. That's what you tell lonely
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: people you need to go to dating sites, you need
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: to look through the window of your home and search
• 2:12:47
  Speaker 1: for them. And he didn't build a telescope. An experimentalist
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 1: asking this question should have built a telescope and searched
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: for unidentified objects in the sky. You know, that's the
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: way to figure out the answer. Whereas everybody it's the
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 1: most romantic question in science. But you know, and we
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: have those blind dates. Maybe it's just with rocks, maybe
• 2:13:10
  Speaker 1: not h and we should just be open minded when
• 2:13:15
  Speaker 1: we address those blind dates.
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 2: I think we can end with that. It's a very
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 2: perfect way of phrasing this whole thing. I'm fascinated by
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 2: it all, and I'm really happy there's someone like you
• 2:13:26
  Speaker 2: that's looking into this with such curiosity and that you're
• 2:13:29
  Speaker 2: undeterred by all these haters.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you. And I should just mention that, you know,
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 1: there are all kinds of technologies that I can imagine
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: that we don't even have. And and for example, you know,
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 1: if a civilization has an ability to create negative and
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 1: negative mass that produces repulsive gravity, then you can propel
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: you know, spacecraft without any fuel. In fact, I'm working
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 1: on a paper now with a group of collaborators applied
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 1: physics on this, and you could also potentially imagine time
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 1: machines with negative masses. So there are lots of things
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: we don't know. Let's let's be modest.
• 2:14:12
  Speaker 2: The future unlimited possibilities, especially if we developed artificial general
• 2:14:17
  Speaker 2: superintelligence and it helps us and it starts devising new
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 2: methods of propulsion, new methods of who knows, seeding the
• 2:14:26
  Speaker 2: universe with other life.
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and just like in our private life, finding a
• 2:14:30
  Speaker 1: partner can change your future for the betving an alien partner. Yes,
• 2:14:36
  Speaker 1: all right, thank you having thanks for having, Thanks